23 ms·

Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

1066 points by Brajeshwar 11mo ago

mechazawa 11mo ago
More and more projects are moving to Codeberg, and I'm wondering; at what point will a critical mass be reached? Or will we end up with a fragmented ecosystem?
- Zardoz84 11mo ago
  I prefer a pletora of code hosting sites, that one massive hub controlled by a single one. We can see how bad is when there is a monopoly or cuasi-monopoly.
- pan69 11mo ago
  > fragmented ecosystem This sounds a bit like an oxymoron. More diversity will only help the ecosystem IMHO.
- xeonmc 11mo ago
  You say fragmented I say decentralized.
  - IshKebab 11mo ago
    I say "I'm not making yet another account to report this bug". Tangled is trying to solve that problem but we'll see.
    - phoronixrly 11mo ago
      [flagged]
      - hinkley 11mo ago
        So how many bugs did you file on sourceforge when GitHub hadn’t quite killed it off?
        phoronixrly 11mo ago
        Maybe I wasn't quite clear. As an open-source author, bug reports are what makes open-source feel like a job. This is because Github has created a sense of entitlement that an open-source project is supposed to take bug reports. That its authors are its 'maintainers' and are expected to fix them. No. You are the person with an issue. You have all the means to fix the issue -- the source code has been shared with you. Now go ahead and fix your bug yourself. Then share the source code with your users as per its license. Notice how I don't even care much for 'pull requests'. Another detrimental notion started with Github -- that the authors of an open-source project are expected to review change requests and merge them. Guy, open-source licenses do not require you to share the derived code with upstream. They require you to share it with your users. I, as the original author, mostly don't care as the original code I wrote works for me. Yes, sending fixes back upstream is a courtesy and a way to thank the original authors. However it is neither required, nor one must expect that the fixes will be accepted or even looked at at all.
        cyberax 11mo ago
        I used to submit quite a few back in the day. How many projects are still actively maintained on Sourceforge? The last time I needed to go there was to get the GPC (General Polygon Clipper) library with the last modification in 2014.
      - crimsoneer 11mo ago
        Wait, how is Tangled VC controlled? As far as I Know, it's actually decentralised properly on atproto, with barely any bluesky dependencies?
        phoronixrly 11mo ago
        Is it not backed by a registered in Finland limited liability company? Haven't they acquired pre-seed funding by Antler, a VC company?
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    - fsflover 11mo ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33730417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33730417
    - myaccountonhn 11mo ago
      That's the beauty of email-based approaches. You can just clone, do your changes and `git send-email`. Done. I think it would've been far easier to build a decent GUI around that flow, with some email integration + a patch preview tool, rather than adding activitypub, but oh well.
      - boomlinde 11mo ago
        > I think it would've been far easier to build a decent GUI around that flow, with some email integration + a patch preview tool, rather than adding activitypub, but oh well. Check out Sourcehut (https://sourcehut.org/ https://sourcehut.org/). It uses a mailing list-based workflow so contributing code or bug reports is relatively effortless and doesn't require a Sourcehut account.
      - IshKebab 11mo ago
        Email-based approaches have far more issues than just needing to create an account. I would much rather have to create another account than deal with git send-email ever again. It's awful.
      - PunchyHamster 11mo ago
        doesn't need full fledged activitypub, just a common place to login might just do it federated way of "here is my domain, here is DNS entry pointing to my identity server to talk with", that way it isn't even tied to single identity service, but a given user will need to use only single login for all of the servers.
    - some_furry 11mo ago
      I literally logged into codeberg using my GitHub account. It's two clicks of the mouse to do this.
      - IshKebab 11mo ago
        Yeah that's good for Codeberg, but most sites haven't set things up to be so seamless. And how many clicks of the mouse was it to set up your SSH key?
- sdqali 11mo ago
  The D in DVCS working as expected.
- hinkley 11mo ago
  Oh no, our decentralized VCS will be… decentralized! Seriously though the big problem to solve will be squatters, when there are three logical places for a module to be hosted. That could create issues if you want to migrate. I would rather have this happening after a contender to git has surfaced. Something for instance with more project tracking built in so migration were simpler.
  - messe 11mo ago
    > Seriously though the big problem to solve will be squatters, when there are three logical places for a module to be hosted I suspect Codeberg, which is focused on free software, will frown on them. They already disallow mirroring.
    - maccard 11mo ago
      > They already disallow mirroring. In which direction? (I'd check myself but they're down...). That doesn't sound very open to me.
      - messe 11mo ago
        I was slightly wrong. You can manually mirror things, but they have removed a feature that allowed one to automatically mirror repositories hosted elsewhere. It was originally intended as an ease of migration tool, but ended up consuming too many resources. From their FAQ: > Why can't I mirror repositories from other code-hosting websites? > Mirrors that pull content from other code hosting services were problematic for Codeberg. They ended up consuming a vast amount of resources (traffic, disk space) over time, as users that were experimenting with Codeberg would not delete those mirrors when leaving. > A detailed explanation can be found in this blog post.[1] [1]: https://blog.codeberg.org/mirror-repos-easily-created-consuming-resources-forever.html https://blog.codeberg.org/mirror-repos-easily-created-consum...
        maccard 11mo ago
        Ah, thanks. That’s a very sensible take from them!
- JoshTriplett 11mo ago
  Hopefully one of the efforts to build distributed pull requests will take off, so that all the forges other than github can band together and interoperate.
  - seg_lol 11mo ago
    That would be the single best thing that they could do, it would make moving off of github a gain in capabilities.
- flohofwoe 11mo ago
  All those different 'git forges' use git as version control system and the same issue and PR workflows. There is no fragmentation, unless you consider one git url being different from another git url 'fragmentation' ;)
- irusensei 11mo ago
  Git itself comes out as a very decentralized tool to me.
thewisenerd 11mo ago
previously discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064571 Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg - 883 comments
- aatd86 11mo ago
  Didn't know about codeberg and can't even access it... Is it https://codeberg.org/ https://codeberg.org/ ??
  - politelemon 11mo ago
    That is correct. It is down quite a bit. https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg
    - testdelacc1 11mo ago
      92% uptime? What do you do the other 8% of the time? Do you just invoke git push in a loop and leave your computer on?
      - some_furry 11mo ago
        As discussed elsewhere in this thread: They're under DDoS, and have been very public about this fact.
      - badsectoracula 11mo ago
        You keep working since Git is decentralized. You can also run a Forgejo instance (the software that powers Codeberg) locally - it is just a single binary that takes a minute to setup - and setup a local mirror of your Codeberg repo with code, issues, etc so you have access to your issues, wiki, etc until Codeberg is up and Forgejo (though you'll have to update them manually later).
        sundarurfriend 11mo ago
IshKebab 11mo ago
Lack of investment more like. There are a ton of simple and obvious bugs that have persisted well before the AI crazy, e.g. this annoying bug from 2021: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/6874 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/6874 This one is almost a one-line change (technically they need an extra flag in the YAML but that's hardly difficult): https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/12882#discussioncomment-11335603 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/12882#discussi... That said, I still think Github is fine, and you can't argue with free CI - especially on Windows/Mac. If they ever stop that I'll definitely consider Codeberg. Or if Codeberg gets support for stacked PRs (i.e. dependencies between PRs), then I'm there! So frustrating that Github doesn't support such an obvious workflow.
- hinkley 11mo ago
  Not spending on maintenance is bad. Not spending on maintenance and spending gobs on something many people don’t want is far worse. It says we have the money, we just don’t give a fuck.
  - bayindirh 11mo ago
    Isn't this SOP of Microsoft since forever? Tons of papercuts which really hurt, and tons of features nobody wants? I think this is the natural outcome of "chasing points" mechanic inside Microsoft.
    - hinkley 11mo ago
      For my money, the scorpion is halfway across the river and y’all are about to become the frog. I haven’t touched a windows machine in 15 years and I’d really like to continue that streak to the grave. Gaben is working hard to become my new favorite tech person by trying to claw gaming off of the PC. I really hope he wins.
  - jiqiren 11mo ago
    The evidence of AI failure is all this low hanging fruit maintenance fixes users are begging Microsoft to fix and these AI agents are not fixing them. AI was going to 10x engineers or something right? Why isn’t GitHub getting better with all this AI help?
brabel 11mo ago
In other news today, Bun, which is one of the biggest projects written in Zig, joined Anthropic, the company behind Claude Code, and has nothing but kind words to say about AI. If Zig becomes ever more hostile to AI, I wonder if there may be some "friction" there.
- jazzyjackson 11mo ago
  Why would zig care that a project written in zig is used for AI?
  - pjmlp 11mo ago
    Usually programming languages need that killer project to sell themselves, instead of being something only language nerds play with, Bun was one of such projects.
    - schaefer 11mo ago
      Bun still exists. as does tigerbeetle
      - pjmlp 11mo ago
        Lets see for how long, after the acquisition.
  - Meneth 11mo ago
    And if they did, what could they possibly do?
    - brabel 11mo ago
      As Bun uses Zig quite a lot, I expect them to be quite active in the Zig forums and submitting patches and feature requests. I was thinking of things like AI-generated patches submitted by Bun to the Zig project, or feature requests by Bun for AI-specific use cases... that could create a really bad atmosphere between Zig and Bun people if the Zig Foundation continuously rejects their contributions/requests/discussions.
tuupola 11mo ago
They also made the disastrous update to the dashboard feed which made the frontpage pretty much useless. https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/65343 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/65343
- danilafe 11mo ago
  Their most most recent update replaces all this with a list of recently updated PRs and issues. I've been learning on it heavily since it came out. One of the few recent changes that really feels like a clear improvement.
  - sevenseacat 11mo ago
    oh wow. I just had to press the "Try the new experience!" button about ten times for it to finally load the new experience, but I like it
- halapro 11mo ago
  Haven't used the dashboard in years. What's on it now might be more useful. The homepage for me should be set to Notifications. At any rate, the feed is still available and you can reach it via browser autocomplete. I open GitHub by typing "not" in my URL bar and landing on the notifications page.
- st3fan 11mo ago
  I'm just one data point but .. who uses the frontpage? I go there to work on my projects. I've never been on pages other than in my org or projects.
themgt 11mo ago
I have sympathy for some of the GitHub complaints. otoh just went to try to signup for Codeberg and it's down ... 95% uptime over the last 2 weeks? https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg
- worldsavior 11mo ago
  What? It says it's up for 98.56% for the last 2 weeks.
  - qwertox 11mo ago
    That's probably the average. But if Codeberg Translate shines with 99.58%, it is an unnecessary entry which harms the "92.42% Codeberg.org" reality.
- bayindirh 11mo ago
  I mean, they're battling with DDoS all the time. I follow their account on Mastodon, and they're pretty open about it. I believe the correct question is "Why they are getting DDoSed this much if they are not something important?" For anyone who wants to follow: https://social.anoxinon.de/@Codeberg https://social.anoxinon.de/@Codeberg Even their status page is under attack. Sorry for my French, but WTF?
  - letmetweakit 11mo ago
    That's rough ... it is a bad, bad world out there.
    - bayindirh 11mo ago
      Try exposing a paswordless SSH server to outside to see what happens. It'll be tried immediately, non-stop. Now, all the servers I run has no public SSH ports, anymore. This is also why I don't expose home-servers to internet. I don't want that chaos at my doorstep.
NitpickLawyer 11mo ago
Last week the reason for the move was MS tools being used by the baddies. Today AI is the baddie du jour. To use a great quote "either do or don't, but I got places to be".
- latexr 11mo ago
  The original post was specifically about technical grievances, “MS tools being used by the baddies” was mentioned only in passing. https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ > Putting aside GitHub’s relationship with ICE That was the extent of it. Six words. Furthermore, this submission is an independent post, not from Zig, reporting on the original and adding more context. > To use a great quote "either do or don't, but I got places to be". What exactly is your complaint? The move had already been completed at the time of the original Zig post. They did do it. There’s no incongruence between posts. The nature of your discontent or how it could possibly affect you isn’t clear in the slightest.
  - throwawaypath 11mo ago
    [flagged]
- otikik 11mo ago
  > I got places to be Like, reading and posting on Hacker News?
  - adastra22 11mo ago
    Don’t judge: we’re here too.
    - otikik 11mo ago
      I very openly don't have places to be
- PunchyHamster 11mo ago
mkornaukhov 11mo ago
IMHO, the main advantage of github is that it is an ecosystem. This is a well-thought-out Swiss knife: a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system, convenient issues, as well as a well-formed CI system with many developed actions and free runners. In addition, it is best to use code navigation simply in a web browser. You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. Having a sponsorship system is also great, you don't have to search for external donation platforms and post weird links in your profile/repository. All in one, that's why developers like it so much. The obsession with AI makes me nervous, but the advantages still outweigh, as for me, the average developer. For now.
- curcbit 11mo ago
  Github'PR and CI are some of the worst.
- baq 11mo ago
  > a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system having used gerrit 10 years ago there's nothing about github's PRs that I like more, today. > code navigation simply in a web browser this is nice indeed, true. > You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. if only. GHA are a hot mess because somehow we've landed in a local minimum of pretend-YAML-but-actually-shell-js-jinja-python and they have a smaller or bigger outage every other week, for years now. > why developers like it so much most everything else is much worse in at least one area and the most important thing it's what everyone uses. no one got fired for using github.
  - delusional 11mo ago
    > having used gerrit 10 years ago there's nothing about github's PRs that I like more, today. I love patch stack review systems. I understand why they're not more popular, they can be a bit harder to understand and more work to craft, but it's just a wonderful experience once you get them. Making my reviews work in phabricator made my patchsets in general so much better, and making my patchsets better have improved my communication skills.
  - CamouflagedKiwi 11mo ago
asim 11mo ago
The article is very hard to read, with ads on one side, links in every other sentence. I could not even figure out where Zig has gone... TLDR anyone? Edit: Scrolling comments I see something called Codeberg but why am I getting connection refused? Another edit: Oh because Codeberg is down. I had to look at another thread on the frontpage to find that out...
tacker2000 11mo ago
To be fair this has more to do with Github Actions than Github, which from the beginning was never really going to rival any professional solution. The people at Zig should use proper CI tools and not something that a big service provider is offering as an afterthought.
- sunnyday_002 11mo ago
  What is wrong with GitHub Actions other than the outages? I've never hit a issue myself.
  - deathanatos 11mo ago
    Geez, where to start. I mean, … the outages are a big part of it. But those outages also extending to taking out my own hardware (e.g., through bugs like the above consuming resources on my own compute) is just double the pain. But as a product, it's just bad? Riddled with bugs? In no particular order: * Artifact APIs will return garbage results during a run. Note that the APIs are separate from the GHA actions for interacting with artifacts, and the latter uses undocumented APIs, presumably b/c the documented APIs are buggy AF. * needs.… will just return junk data, if you typo. * Builds of actions are not cached, making them rather slow. Many GH official actions hack around this by pointing the tag/branch (e.g., @v4) at a pre-built artifact. * The pricing is high, compared to other offerings. * The interface is just FUBAR: e.g., stdin is a pipe, which will wreak havoc on some commands that change their behavior when piped to. stdout & stderr are pipes, which although GHA ostensibly supports colored output, this basically renders it useless. * Jobs, steps, actions are conceptual mud. There's a few ideas, like "execute this thing" in there, but its all jumbled up/duplicated. Container settings are configured per-job, so if you want to run some steps in one container, and some in another, but in the same job, you're just going to be left out to dry. * Secrets are hard to manage, and even harder to not leak. * The expression language has all sorts of corners, like coerced types and functions with parse-time side-effects!. That's just a few of the bugs I've encountered.
    - sunnyday_002 11mo ago
reppap 11mo ago
One thing that's really nice about codeberg is how fast the pages load. Browsing GitHub often feels very sluggish. Obviously there's a difference in scale there, but I hope codeberg can keep being fast.
- nromiun 11mo ago
  That is surprising. It is the opposite for me. $ time curl -L 'https://codeberg.org/' real 0m3.063s user 0m0.060s sys 0m0.044s $ time curl -L 'https://github.com/' real 0m1.357s user 0m0.077s sys 0m0.096s
  - Left5250 11mo ago
    That depends on location and GitHub pages generally take a while to execute all the javascript for a usable page even after the html is fetched while pages on Codeberg require much less javascript to be usable and are quite usable even without javascript. Here are my results for what it's worth $ time curl -o /dev/null -s -L 'https://codeberg.org' real 0m0.907s user 0m0.027s sys 0m0.009s $ time curl -o /dev/null -s -L 'https://github.com/' real 0m0.514s user 0m0.028s sys 0m0.016s
    - nromiun 11mo ago
      Sure, it depends on your internet connection. But for Codeberg I see a blank page for 3-4 seconds until it shows something. On a big repo like Zig the delay is even worse. On Github any page loads gradually and you don't see a blank page even initially.
  - skydhash 11mo ago
    A better benchmark is done through the web browser inspector (network tab or performance tab). In the network tab I got (cache disabled) Github 158 requests 15.56 MB (11.28 MB transferred) Finish in 8.39s Dom loaded in 2.46s Load 6.95s Codeberg 9 requests 1.94 MB (533.85 KB transferred) Finish in 3.58s Dom loaded in 3.21s Load 3.31s
jillesvangurp 11mo ago
Zig is distributed under the MIT License. MS is completely with in their rights to clone the git repository from Codeberg and do whatever with the source code. Including feeding it to their AI algorithms. Moving it to Codeberg doesn't really fix that. I get that some people want to restrict what people can do with source code (including using it for capitalist purposes or indeed ai/machine learning). But the whole point of many open source licenses (and especially the MIT license) is actually the opposite: allowing people to do whatever they want with the source code. The Zig attitude towards AI usage is a bit odd in my view. I don't think it's that widely shared. But good for them if they feel strongly about that. I'm kind of intrigued by Codeberg. I had never heard of it until a few days ago and it seems like that's happening in Berlin where I live. I don't think I would want to use it for commercial projects but it looks fine for open source things. Though I do have questions about the funding model. Running all this on donations seems like it could have some issues long term for more serious projects. Moving OSS communities around can be kind of disruptive. And it probably rules out commercial usage. This whole Github is evil anti-capitalist stance is IMHO a bit out of place. I'm fine with diversity and having more players in the market though; that's a good thing. But many of the replacements are also for profit companies; which is probably why many people are a bit disillusioned with e.g. Gitlab. Codeberg seems structured to be more resilient against that. Otherwise, Github remains good value and I'm getting a lot of value out of for profit AI companies providing me with stuff that was clearly trained on the body of work stored inside of it. I'm even paying for that. I think it's cool that this is now possible.
- CamouflagedKiwi 11mo ago
  > Zig is distributed under the MIT License. MS is completely with in their rights to clone the git repository from Codeberg and do whatever with the source code. Including feeding it to their AI algorithms. Moving it to Codeberg doesn't really fix that. I get that some people want to restrict what people can do with source code (including using it for capitalist purposes or indeed ai/machine learning). But the whole point of many open source licenses (and especially the MIT license) is actually the opposite: allowing people to do whatever they want with the source code. MS training AIs on Zig isn't their complaint here. They're saying that Github has become a worse service because MS aren't working on the fundamentals any more and just chasing the AI dream, and trying to get AI to write code for it is having bad results.
jacquesm 11mo ago
Google workspace will have me do the same. No, I don't want to 'generate an image' I just want to use my own, thank you. They give their AI prime billing everywhere to the detriment of the products and the users.
ramon156 11mo ago
Maintain on codeberg, mirror to GH. Tell everyone to contribute on CB done.
- Sammi 11mo ago
  This seems workable to me. Github rose to prominence on the back of oss. What oss giveth oss can take away.
- sundarurfriend 11mo ago
  One problem is that GH gives you no way to disable PRs. And even if you write in BIG BOLD LETTERS that PRs should be on Codeberg not GH, people get upset and make a fuss over their "ignored" PRs and it ends up making unnecessary headaches for you over and over.
  - forgotpwd16 11mo ago
    Can do it the @torvalds/linux way and have a bot auto-answer/close PRs. And, to be honest, probably is better to ignore people making a fuss over PRs.
    - sundarurfriend 11mo ago
      You can ignore them yourself, but people will get annoyed, take to social media, post "this project ignores PRs" "dead project" "they're not inclusive" etc. without context, and those things can gain momentum out of nowhere and have real consequences. And there will goalpost-shifting again, from "just mirror to GH" to "just accept PRs on GH too, why are they being so obstinate" and then further along. The Linux kernel is unlikely to get those and can survive that even if it does, but your average FOSS project can be severely damaged in terms of reputation, contribution, usage, etc., by this kind of stuff, even if you want to dismiss it as just "social media fluttering". Easier and safer just to keep things clean and clearly at one place.
- closingreunion 11mo ago
  Glad to see codebrg getting recognition. The age of relying on for profit corps for our digital commons needs to end.
sepisoad 11mo ago
I totally agree, Microsoft is ruining everything with AI, like all Microsoft product have been on decline for years even before the LLM era, and now they are on an even steeper decline. it makes me sad to see that github is now going through the same shit, and people are using other random half-ass alternatives, it’s not easy to keep track of your favourite open-source projects across many source forgeries. we need someone to buy github from Microsoft and remove all the crap they have added to it.
- skydhash 11mo ago
  > it’s not easy to keep track of your favourite open-source projects across many source forgeries. Most public forge instances and web presence for open source projects have RSS feeds.
- aembleton 11mo ago
  Or create an overview that keeps track of projects across multiple source control providers, using a consistent interface.
- psychoslave 11mo ago
  See, AI accelerate productivity, with it Microsoft is ruining its products and brand even faster!
liampulles 11mo ago
The main function of GitHub is really just advertising or at least broadcasting your work. I would use GitHub issues, stars, etc as an (imperfect gauge) of the quality of a library. This is not because of GitHub's features, just that it's the biggest and most well known. And yes I know buying stars is a thing, which is why it's part of the evaluation and not the whole ballgame. Now that zig is fairly well known and trusted, it makes sense that this is less of a concern for them when migrating away.
zer0tonin 11mo ago
This resonates with me. Last week I got stuck on a bug where GitHub actions was pulling ARMv7 docker images when I specifically requested ARMv8. Absolutely impossible to reproduce locally either.
samdoesnothing 11mo ago
Wait I thought they left because Github software engineers are "monkeys".
mittermayr 11mo ago
I hate these constant drama posts, but I am all for seeing competition. I think it's good to have a couple of top-tier companies offering the same service, and especially with git, it's been... lacklustre outside of Github, I'd say. Bitbucket was totally nice, but Atlassian and Jira and meh... Github has (mostly) steered clear of cross-product promotions until the CoPilot era washed all over us, and I wonder for how long they can continue to thrive off the power of brand-awareness. Same effect at play watching all the top-tier AI corps under heavy competitive fire still, trying hard to keep the audience attached while battling to stay on top of (or keep up with) the competition. This mainly (for now) benefits the user. If OpenAI were to trailblaze on their own, we'd all be paying through the roof for even the most basic GPT by now.
- blibble 11mo ago
  > I think it's good to have a couple of top-tier companies offering the same service "top-tier" is not a term I would use to describe Microsoft
aperture147 11mo ago
I don't get it, why did they allow GitHub bot to modify and merge pull request automatically? Yeah I agree that MS is ruining everything with AI, but this problem is avoidable, if they turn off the bot's auto merge feature, or turn it off completely. The reason they move to a lesser known Git provider sounds more like a marketing stunt.
- literallyroy 11mo ago
  What are you referring to? I may be missing a line from the article but it seems mostly focused around a lingering GitHub Actions bug and the direction of GitHub.
  - aperture147 11mo ago
    Then... don't use GHA and move to other CI/CD/Workflow platform. If you try it, don't like it then don't use it, GitHub does not force you to use GHA anyway, and moving away from GitHub due to their direction sounds like a political movement. It's like someone who stop shopping from Walmart, not because they sells bad product but because they support the Republic, then going to a local shop that sometimes close unexpectedly sound unreasonable.
- karel-3d 11mo ago
  > I don't get it, why did they allow GitHub bot to modify and merge pull request automatically They didn't, poor wording on Register part. The pull request was closed for inactivity by the bot.
  - simonask 11mo ago
    Again, perfectly avoidable.
    - baobabKoodaa 11mo ago
      Uhh we're talking about the pull request to safe_sleep, right? Not sure why you take that condescending tone when anecdata goes AGAINST your position.
keiferski 11mo ago
LLMs are useful, but AI is itself a marketing term that has begun to lose its luster. It’s rapidly becoming an annoying or trendy label, not a cutting edge one. I guarantee that in ~24 months, most AI features will still remain in some form or another on most apps, but the marketing language of AI-first will have evaporated entirely.
- dr_dshiv 11mo ago
  > AI is itself a marketing term that has begun to lose its luster. It’s rapidly becoming an annoying or trendy label, not a cutting edge one. Where have you been the last 15 years? However, I agree with your prediction. Coke making AI advertisements may have had cache a couple years ago, but now would be a doofus move.
  - keiferski 11mo ago
    I don’t remember AI being used as a widespread marketing term until 2-3 years ago. Before that it was just more of a vague tech thing you’d sometimes see, but now every single app seems to have reframed their business to be about AI agents.
    - brabel 11mo ago
      There have been at least 3 waves of AI before the LLM generation. 70s , 80s and late 90s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter Early 2010s had a lot of neural networks AI stuff going on and it certainly became a minor hype cycle as well though that kind of resulted in the current LLM wave.
      - rsynnott 11mo ago
        There was also a small chatbot bubble around 2014-2016 (Microsoft Tay kinda blew it out of the water, and it never recovered), though companies did seem a bit skittish about using the term 'AI' at that point.
      - keiferski 11mo ago
mittermayr 11mo ago
Additional note on Codeberg, which I think is great as a project, but I got curious on what infrastructure they are running on and how reliable this would be for larger corporate repos. Nov 22, 2025 https://blog.codeberg.org/letter-from-codeberg-onwards-and-upwards.html https://blog.codeberg.org/letter-from-codeberg-onwards-and-u... Quotes from their website: Infrastructure status [...] We are running on 3 servers, one Gigabyte and 2 Dell servers (R730 and R740). Here's their current hardware: https://codeberg.org/Codeberg-Infrastructure/meta/src/branch/main/hardware https://codeberg.org/Codeberg-Infrastructure/meta/src/branch... [...] Although aged, the performance (and even energy efficiency) is often not much worse than with new hardware that we could afford. In the interest of saving embodied carbon emissions from hardware manufacturing, we believe that used hardware is the more sustainable path. [...] We are investigating how broken Apple laptops could be repurposed into CI runners. After all, automated CI usage doesn't depend on the same factors that human beings depend on when using a computer (functioning screen, speakers, keyboard, battery, etc.). If you own a broken M1/M2 device or know someone who does, and believe that it is not worth a conventional repair, we would be happy to receive your hardware donation and give it a try! [...] While it usually holds up nicely, we see sudden drop in performance every few days. It can usually be "fixed" with a simple restart of Forgejo to clear the backlog of queries. Gives both early-Google as well as hackerspace vibes, which can or can not be a good thing.
- kachapopopow 11mo ago
  oh wow I had a larger cluster than that since I was 20 more than half a decade ago, considering that the costs appear to be so low maybe I should also pop out few free services since at the moment I pay $600+ just on power costs alone for idle hardware on my personal cluster. If anyone has any ideas feel free to email me at: news.ycombinator.com.reassure132@passmail.net
  - giancarlostoro 11mo ago
    Maybe you could reach out to the codeberg folks and loan them a server? Sounds like they could use all the help they can get.
woile 11mo ago
I think once Codeberg becomes federated, it will likely attract a lot of people. Right now github is great for discovering and tracking projects, reflecting growth via the star and fork system (although a bit broken in the last few years). If a federated layer is applied to these github alternatives, you could have an account in Codeberg, and be able to track lots of projects wherever people want to host them. Right now, I see a lot of forgejo servers, but I don't want to register in all of them.
- miningape 11mo ago
  +1 - I also see a huge opportunity for forgejo to become a new stackoverflow if they add federation The primary issue with SO was that it was disconnected from the actual communities maintaining the project. A federated solution would be able to have the same network effects while handing ownership to the original community (rather than a separate SO branch of the community)
- amai 11mo ago
  We need a fediverse app for version control.
brushfoot 11mo ago
The edit history of the announcement is quite a ride: > [2025-11-27T02:10:07Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress [1] > [2025-11-27T14:04:47Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining rookies eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress [2] > [2025-11-28T09:21:12Z] it’s abundantly clear that the engineering excellence that created GitHub’s success is no longer driving it [3] --- 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20251127021007/https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251127021007/https://ziglang.o... 2: https://web.archive.org/web/20251127140447/https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251127140447/https://ziglang.o... 3: https://web.archive.org/web/20251128092112/https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251128092112/https://ziglang.o...
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- testdelacc1 11mo ago
  At least he edited it to something more palatable. I vastly prefer someone who can admit to making a mistake and amending what they said to someone who doubles down. The latter attitude has become far too normalised in the last few years.
  - cyanydeez 11mo ago
    that attitude has and continues to approach a entire bloodless coup of the largest economy on the planet. The normalization, in fact, has been quite successful. The entire silicon valley has tacitly approved of it. You act like people arn't being rewarded for this type of behavior.
    - montroser 11mo ago
coopykins 11mo ago
Maybe this is a nice chance to ask, would you move from Gitlab to Github? I would say no, but some people in my org are proposing it, it seems to me simply because the integration it has with AI tools, but my experience has been worse in Github than with Gitlab.
- yoyohello13 11mo ago
  We self-host GitLab and I would fight a migration to GitHub with every fiber of my being. GitLab is just better in pretty much every way. Especially CI/CD.
- miningape 11mo ago
  For me they're both about equally shitty, but with Github you get a nice commit calendar to show off to recruiters - so Github wins IMO.
  - davidee 11mo ago
    I believe the exact same exists in Gitlab under each user profile.
- layer8 11mo ago
  We are self-hosting GitLab, which you can’t with GitHub.
7222aafdcf68cfe 11mo ago
A lot of these forced "AI" integrations are essentially Clippy on steroids. A more careful approach focusing on use cases the technology can really support would be much preferred.
jbaiter 11mo ago
Am I in the minority when I actually like those AI features on GitHub? The ability to interrogate any open source codebase is __amazing__, this feature alone has saved me days of work/research. The AI code reviews are nothing to write home about, but occasionally catch stuff that I would've missed, a net benefit for me. I don't really get all the outrage... Sure, having an "Ask AI" Clippy-like thing in your face everywhere gets old quick, but at least on GitHub I find it non-obtrusive and often actually useful.
- flohofwoe 11mo ago
  ...you can just clone the repository and do that interrogation locally with the AI tool of your choice. Every single application or webpage having its own AI integration is seriously one of the dumbest ideas in computing history (instead of separating applications and AI tools and let them work together via standardized interfaces).
  - ramoz 11mo ago
    Github Copilot review is such a simple - optional - ux, it makes sense as a feature. I enjoy it.
rsynnott 11mo ago
Look, how is number to go up without constant AI bullshit? Won't somebody think of the shareholders! MS in particular _really_ seems to be sacrificing itself on the altar of Roko's Basilisk; they appear totally incapable of doing _anything_ that isn't AI-branded anymore.
johnjames87 11mo ago
Haven't noticed any AI problems or annoyances on GH.
jappgar 11mo ago
Why does ever HN thread read like a churlish blogger review of the latest installment of <popular-scifi-franchise>? Github is great. It barely changes at all and yet it's still too much for this originalist crowd.
vbezhenar 11mo ago
I like AI changes. Can change files from UI, will fill commit message for me. That's awesome.
Animats 11mo ago
Is anything broken on the pure Git side of Github? From this, it's clear that actions and runners are becoming unusable. But are repositories still safe?
- miningape 11mo ago
  Luckily it's harder to enshittify something you don't own
- 8organicbits 11mo ago
  The outages break `git push`. I'm not a fan of the AI adoption within the UI, and the side bars when browsing code usually get in the way. Using GitHub as a dumb git backend isn't a great option either, look at the Linux kernels PRs, it's almost all spam. Why on earth can't PRs be disabled? https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclose...
_cenw 11mo ago
Seeing the decline of GitHub in Actions is technically correct, but Actions was always broken. We tried getting self-hosted runners to work super early before there was a proper ephemeral mode (just an officially unsupported race-condition-y --once flag). It sucked. That code can't produce a consistent status code, constantly failed to connect to its scheduler with obscure Azure error codes and had so many races with accepting and timing out jobs. Runners wouldn't get new jobs, jobs would sit there for an hour and then time out, runners would just die and need to be re-provisioned (we used ephemeral VMs in a GCP instance group). This is all because Actions is actually Azure DevOps Pipelines rebranded. Compared to then this product is downright mature now. And also, there always were people at GitHub who delivered crappy products outside the core that most people working on FOSS got to see. Enterprise Cloud has a ton of sharp edges and things that make you ask "WHY" out loud. Notifications with SAML enabled are broken in countless ways (I have 0 out of 12 notifications right now), newly onboarded users are encouraged to click a "request copilot" button that sends emails to admins you can't disable, policy toggles that used to do one thing get split up and not defaulted properly. The last two in particular are just dark pattern hacks to get people to use Copilot. In an enterprise product. I haven't used GHES, but I imagine it's worse.
codr7 11mo ago
Yep, all my new stuff is on Gitlab.
deadbabe 11mo ago
maybe I’m out of the loop, but what is the “obsession” with AI that’s ruining it? GitHub still works for me like it always has. How are other people using GitHub?
beanjuiceII 11mo ago
niche language does something, cool story
- theultdev 11mo ago
  It's a little more than a niche language now. Bun is made with Zig, and they just got acquired by Anthropic. Ghostty is another notable piece of software made with Zig. I assume the Bun acquisition is fueling most of this Zig news. There's about 4 articles on the frontpage about Zig.
Havoc 11mo ago
See also people switching from windows to Linux. MS need a stint of focusing on what users want rather than ramming stuff down their throat unasked hoping they’ll swallow
- PunchyHamster 11mo ago
  MS need someone that will slap people doing the second the moment some of the first happen. Securing base, easy to use and reliable OS should be no.1 priority. Forcing down the throat services the users largely do not want just breeds resentment, and not only in people treated that way but also anyone that hears about it. If W11 was "hey, we did some optimising, fixed some bugs and HEY, if you have TPM2.0, we can do that little step to make your machine more secure!" there would be far less resentment. Similarly with every other feature, ask user, present the benefits, fuck off if they don't want to. NOT "turn it on by default then let them try to figure out how to turn it off". And then ask them again every few days with only option being "remind me later" as current copilot feature for teams does.
jackfranklyn 11mo ago
[flagged]
rmoriz 11mo ago
Well, diversity is great but I think many people underestimate the quality and service of GitHub, especially the free services. Even commercial vendors have failed to provide such a free service over time (Docker Hub, Bintray, Sourceforge). They all have/had the power to earn money though commercial offerings and ads, but in the end had to cut down their free services. I still wonder, how codeberg plans to cover the exploding costs.
zerofor_conduct 11mo ago
I feel that training copilot on Github repos without maintainer consent was a betrayal - this pushed many projects over to Gitlab.
- snarfy 11mo ago
  You could say the same for any content used for training.
  - WolfeReader 11mo ago
    You could and you should.
throw7 11mo ago
"Either you have to embrace the AI, or you get out of your career," Dohmke. Dohmke left CEO position of GitHub in November.
- Pseudocrat 11mo ago
  He left to found an AI startup
- nish__ 11mo ago
  Who's the CEO now?
  - AlexeyBelov 11mo ago
    No one, they haven't filled this position and don't plan to.
- PunchyHamster 11mo ago
  CEO following their own advice is rare
ChrisArchitect 11mo ago
[dupe] Discussion on source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064571
QuadrupleA 11mo ago
Probably a good time to mention fossil, an excellent SCM from the makers of SQLite with a number of github-like features built-in: https://fossil-scm.org/ https://fossil-scm.org/ Single ~6mb executable, blazing fast. I've been a happy user for years.
- WolfeReader 11mo ago
  Fossil is great. I'd encourage anyone to try it out on their next personal project.
- q3k 11mo ago
  There's no code review system for Fossil, because the SQLite guy doesn't believe in formalized code review. It also doesn't have any good flow for accepting external contributions other than .patch/bundle files, because the SQLite guy doesn't believe anyone but him is good enough to regularly contribute code. It might be great for single person projects, which I guess is fine for hobby stuff, but unless you luck out like Richard Hipp and manage to become a well-paid hermit working in a effectively-one-person cathedral model, then it's not really going to work for most projects.
- wuming2 11mo ago
  Minimalist vps, download the executable, copy and paste apache config, activate and you are good to go. With certain providers you don't even need to buy a domain. Personal, small and medium sized projects are 99% of all projects.
phplovesong 11mo ago
And now a huge Zig user is purchased by an AI company. The tale as old as time.
vzaliva 11mo ago
Let me be blunt: this looks like a tantrum. Bugs exist, and they're sometimes fixed more slowly than we'd like, but given the size of the GitHub ecosystem this is probably just one of many outstanding bugs. Blaming AI is baseless - not that it couldn't be true, but the conclusion seems to be drawn from a single issue. What does this mean for the Zig project? I haven't heard of Codeberg, they may be great, but for a popular open-source project I'd expect a proper discussion before deciding to move or weighing the pros and cons of different hosting options. From what I'm hearing, Zig is technically excellent but seems to lack level‑headed, mature leadership. That's not unique: many open‑source projects started by brilliant engineers struggle as they grow and need a new leadership structure. That transition can be painful and could even harm adoption.
- LtWorf 11mo ago
  > I haven't heard of Codeberg That's more of a you problem really. > I'd expect a proper discussion before deciding to move And you know the discussion did not happen?
  - metaltyphoon 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - LtWorf 11mo ago
      I am almost certain that the zig project will somehow manage to survive anyway without you following them. And now you know about an alternative to gh that isn't a for profit company! Yay!
      - metaltyphoon 11mo ago
        > I am almost certain that the zig project will somehow manage to survive anyway without you following them. It took longer than expected for this comment to show up.
- deathanatos 11mo ago
zeroq 11mo ago
Pretty immature to be honest. I won't stop taking the bus because I don't agree with its drivers political views.
shevy-java 11mo ago
The reason is a bit strange. To me it seems as if Zig is just very opinionated. Personally I think the decision to move to Codeberg was made independently of Microsoft being a problem. I don't dispute that Microsoft is a problem; I just don't see many great alternatives to github either. Gitlab consistently is worse for me as a user. I think the bigger problem is that these big megacorporations control so much. I find Google even more problematic than Microsoft these days in that regard. AI worsens this problem, but even without AI it already was a problem.
- AdamN 11mo ago
  How is Bitbucket these days in comparison? Is it no longer even a player?
  - RagnarD 11mo ago
    I used to use it, but left as it became apparent that Atlassian was increasingly incompetent in both software and business aspects to the point of both being badly broken.
  - athorax 11mo ago
    Lets put it this way, no engineer is choosing to use bitbucket. You use it because some SVP made the mistake of choosing atlassian software a decade ago and refuses to change.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
a-dub 11mo ago
github actions is pretty terrible. the self hosted runner host is some horrific dotnet csharp mono monstrosity and "language" is some javascript wrapper nonsense that needlessly creates a half baked dsl around running basic shell commands. it has a pretty ui, but that's about it.
venturecruelty 11mo ago
I'm loving all the seething comments because a smart man who runs a good project is doing something a bunch of stealth GitHub employees don't like, even though it doesn't affect them. You don't have to use Zig, y'all. You don't have to agree with Andrew's opinions, y'all.
sharyphil 11mo ago
Move 'ZIG'. For great justice.
sleepybrett 11mo ago
I heard tell that everyone at github is now tasked with either AI or getting github running fully on azure.
gnutrino 11mo ago
GitHub is slow bloatware at this point. I can get a PR to load at least 2-3x faster in Graphite than GitHub. I avoid going directly to their UI at all costs now.
wuming2 11mo ago
You are a big name --> don't need GH for followers and contributors. You are a small potato --> GH gives way more followers than contributors. CI/CD is not good on GH either. At this point the problem is discovery. With a federated search engine the actual forge host would not be an issue anymore.
honkostani 11mo ago
[dead]
mawadev 11mo ago
We are seeing the realtime result of MS buying Github and buying influence. Put this into context with what happened to twitter when it was bought. I stopped hosting my code on GH, even in private repositories years ago. It is a privacy nightmare to think about LLMs ingesting this information. I believe this is a positive development for Zig to steer away from being entangled with whatever MS is pulling on Github next. It's like avoiding a landmine when you move away from something that is starting to go on a revenue driven tangent relative to its core use case. If you put the claims that Zig needs a big project or stay niche aside, a lot of things Zig brings to the table make working with memory and systems much easier for those who can't get into rust (like me). Just install it and play around with it to see for yourself. I wish we'd go back to being more exploratory instead of focusing so much on economics and careers where corporations can influence what is the right thing to do.
renrutal 11mo ago
I feel the biggest advantage about GitHub over other platforms is that many tools that integrate with a software project platform are GitHub first, others later. Tooling support can be miserable when you had something in BitBucket, GitLab, and non-existent if isn't those top 3.
nobodyandproud 11mo ago
Satya Nadella and his off-shore army has made a mess of many things in the last few years. In a big org and in an acquisition, the best engineers coming from that acquisition will find that they will have more impact elsewhere.
Mr_Minderbinder 11mo ago
> Over the weekend, Rodrigo Arias Mallo, creator of the Dillo browser project... This is wrong, that is the current maintainer. Jorge Arellano Cid is the creator of Dillo.
amai 11mo ago
We need a fediverse app for version control.
pi_lover 11mo ago
It is "Andrew KELLEY", not "Andrew KELLY"!

1066 points by Brajeshwar 11mo ago

More and more projects are moving to Codeberg, and I'm wondering; at what point will a critical mass be reached? Or will we end up with a fragmented ecosystem?

Zardoz84 11mo ago
I prefer a pletora of code hosting sites, that one massive hub controlled by a single one. We can see how bad is when there is a monopoly or cuasi-monopoly.
pan69 11mo ago
> fragmented ecosystem This sounds a bit like an oxymoron. More diversity will only help the ecosystem IMHO.
xeonmc 11mo ago
You say fragmented I say decentralized.
- IshKebab 11mo ago
  I say "I'm not making yet another account to report this bug". Tangled is trying to solve that problem but we'll see.
  - phoronixrly 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - hinkley 11mo ago
      So how many bugs did you file on sourceforge when GitHub hadn’t quite killed it off?
      - phoronixrly 11mo ago
        Maybe I wasn't quite clear. As an open-source author, bug reports are what makes open-source feel like a job. This is because Github has created a sense of entitlement that an open-source project is supposed to take bug reports. That its authors are its 'maintainers' and are expected to fix them. No. You are the person with an issue. You have all the means to fix the issue -- the source code has been shared with you. Now go ahead and fix your bug yourself. Then share the source code with your users as per its license. Notice how I don't even care much for 'pull requests'. Another detrimental notion started with Github -- that the authors of an open-source project are expected to review change requests and merge them. Guy, open-source licenses do not require you to share the derived code with upstream. They require you to share it with your users. I, as the original author, mostly don't care as the original code I wrote works for me. Yes, sending fixes back upstream is a courtesy and a way to thank the original authors. However it is neither required, nor one must expect that the fixes will be accepted or even looked at at all.
      - cyberax 11mo ago
        I used to submit quite a few back in the day. How many projects are still actively maintained on Sourceforge? The last time I needed to go there was to get the GPC (General Polygon Clipper) library with the last modification in 2014.
    - crimsoneer 11mo ago
      Wait, how is Tangled VC controlled? As far as I Know, it's actually decentralised properly on atproto, with barely any bluesky dependencies?
      - phoronixrly 11mo ago
        Is it not backed by a registered in Finland limited liability company? Haven't they acquired pre-seed funding by Antler, a VC company?
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - fsflover 11mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33730417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33730417
  - myaccountonhn 11mo ago
    That's the beauty of email-based approaches. You can just clone, do your changes and `git send-email`. Done. I think it would've been far easier to build a decent GUI around that flow, with some email integration + a patch preview tool, rather than adding activitypub, but oh well.
    - boomlinde 11mo ago
      > I think it would've been far easier to build a decent GUI around that flow, with some email integration + a patch preview tool, rather than adding activitypub, but oh well. Check out Sourcehut (https://sourcehut.org/ https://sourcehut.org/). It uses a mailing list-based workflow so contributing code or bug reports is relatively effortless and doesn't require a Sourcehut account.
    - IshKebab 11mo ago
      Email-based approaches have far more issues than just needing to create an account. I would much rather have to create another account than deal with git send-email ever again. It's awful.
    - PunchyHamster 11mo ago
      doesn't need full fledged activitypub, just a common place to login might just do it federated way of "here is my domain, here is DNS entry pointing to my identity server to talk with", that way it isn't even tied to single identity service, but a given user will need to use only single login for all of the servers.
  - some_furry 11mo ago
    I literally logged into codeberg using my GitHub account. It's two clicks of the mouse to do this.
    - IshKebab 11mo ago
      Yeah that's good for Codeberg, but most sites haven't set things up to be so seamless. And how many clicks of the mouse was it to set up your SSH key?
sdqali 11mo ago
The D in DVCS working as expected.
hinkley 11mo ago
Oh no, our decentralized VCS will be… decentralized! Seriously though the big problem to solve will be squatters, when there are three logical places for a module to be hosted. That could create issues if you want to migrate. I would rather have this happening after a contender to git has surfaced. Something for instance with more project tracking built in so migration were simpler.
- messe 11mo ago
  > Seriously though the big problem to solve will be squatters, when there are three logical places for a module to be hosted I suspect Codeberg, which is focused on free software, will frown on them. They already disallow mirroring.
  - maccard 11mo ago
    > They already disallow mirroring. In which direction? (I'd check myself but they're down...). That doesn't sound very open to me.
    - messe 11mo ago
      I was slightly wrong. You can manually mirror things, but they have removed a feature that allowed one to automatically mirror repositories hosted elsewhere. It was originally intended as an ease of migration tool, but ended up consuming too many resources. From their FAQ: > Why can't I mirror repositories from other code-hosting websites? > Mirrors that pull content from other code hosting services were problematic for Codeberg. They ended up consuming a vast amount of resources (traffic, disk space) over time, as users that were experimenting with Codeberg would not delete those mirrors when leaving. > A detailed explanation can be found in this blog post.[1] [1]: https://blog.codeberg.org/mirror-repos-easily-created-consuming-resources-forever.html https://blog.codeberg.org/mirror-repos-easily-created-consum...
      - maccard 11mo ago
        Ah, thanks. That’s a very sensible take from them!
JoshTriplett 11mo ago
Hopefully one of the efforts to build distributed pull requests will take off, so that all the forges other than github can band together and interoperate.
- seg_lol 11mo ago
  That would be the single best thing that they could do, it would make moving off of github a gain in capabilities.
flohofwoe 11mo ago
All those different 'git forges' use git as version control system and the same issue and PR workflows. There is no fragmentation, unless you consider one git url being different from another git url 'fragmentation' ;)
irusensei 11mo ago
Git itself comes out as a very decentralized tool to me.

thewisenerd 11mo ago

previously discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064571 Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg - 883 comments

aatd86 11mo ago
Didn't know about codeberg and can't even access it... Is it https://codeberg.org/ https://codeberg.org/ ??
- politelemon 11mo ago
  That is correct. It is down quite a bit. https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg
  - testdelacc1 11mo ago
    92% uptime? What do you do the other 8% of the time? Do you just invoke git push in a loop and leave your computer on?
    - some_furry 11mo ago
      As discussed elsewhere in this thread: They're under DDoS, and have been very public about this fact.
    - badsectoracula 11mo ago
      You keep working since Git is decentralized. You can also run a Forgejo instance (the software that powers Codeberg) locally - it is just a single binary that takes a minute to setup - and setup a local mirror of your Codeberg repo with code, issues, etc so you have access to your issues, wiki, etc until Codeberg is up and Forgejo (though you'll have to update them manually later).
      - sundarurfriend 11mo ago

IshKebab 11mo ago

Lack of investment more like. There are a ton of simple and obvious bugs that have persisted well before the AI crazy, e.g. this annoying bug from 2021: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/6874 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/6874 This one is almost a one-line change (technically they need an extra flag in the YAML but that's hardly difficult): https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/12882#discussioncomment-11335603 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/12882#discussi... That said, I still think Github is fine, and you can't argue with free CI - especially on Windows/Mac. If they ever stop that I'll definitely consider Codeberg. Or if Codeberg gets support for stacked PRs (i.e. dependencies between PRs), then I'm there! So frustrating that Github doesn't support such an obvious workflow.

hinkley 11mo ago
Not spending on maintenance is bad. Not spending on maintenance and spending gobs on something many people don’t want is far worse. It says we have the money, we just don’t give a fuck.
- bayindirh 11mo ago
  Isn't this SOP of Microsoft since forever? Tons of papercuts which really hurt, and tons of features nobody wants? I think this is the natural outcome of "chasing points" mechanic inside Microsoft.
  - hinkley 11mo ago
    For my money, the scorpion is halfway across the river and y’all are about to become the frog. I haven’t touched a windows machine in 15 years and I’d really like to continue that streak to the grave. Gaben is working hard to become my new favorite tech person by trying to claw gaming off of the PC. I really hope he wins.
- jiqiren 11mo ago
  The evidence of AI failure is all this low hanging fruit maintenance fixes users are begging Microsoft to fix and these AI agents are not fixing them. AI was going to 10x engineers or something right? Why isn’t GitHub getting better with all this AI help?

brabel 11mo ago

In other news today, Bun, which is one of the biggest projects written in Zig, joined Anthropic, the company behind Claude Code, and has nothing but kind words to say about AI. If Zig becomes ever more hostile to AI, I wonder if there may be some "friction" there.

jazzyjackson 11mo ago
Why would zig care that a project written in zig is used for AI?
- pjmlp 11mo ago
  Usually programming languages need that killer project to sell themselves, instead of being something only language nerds play with, Bun was one of such projects.
  - schaefer 11mo ago
    Bun still exists. as does tigerbeetle
    - pjmlp 11mo ago
      Lets see for how long, after the acquisition.
- Meneth 11mo ago
  And if they did, what could they possibly do?
  - brabel 11mo ago
    As Bun uses Zig quite a lot, I expect them to be quite active in the Zig forums and submitting patches and feature requests. I was thinking of things like AI-generated patches submitted by Bun to the Zig project, or feature requests by Bun for AI-specific use cases... that could create a really bad atmosphere between Zig and Bun people if the Zig Foundation continuously rejects their contributions/requests/discussions.

tuupola 11mo ago

They also made the disastrous update to the dashboard feed which made the frontpage pretty much useless. https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/65343 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/65343

danilafe 11mo ago
Their most most recent update replaces all this with a list of recently updated PRs and issues. I've been learning on it heavily since it came out. One of the few recent changes that really feels like a clear improvement.
- sevenseacat 11mo ago
  oh wow. I just had to press the "Try the new experience!" button about ten times for it to finally load the new experience, but I like it
halapro 11mo ago
Haven't used the dashboard in years. What's on it now might be more useful. The homepage for me should be set to Notifications. At any rate, the feed is still available and you can reach it via browser autocomplete. I open GitHub by typing "not" in my URL bar and landing on the notifications page.
st3fan 11mo ago
I'm just one data point but .. who uses the frontpage? I go there to work on my projects. I've never been on pages other than in my org or projects.

themgt 11mo ago

I have sympathy for some of the GitHub complaints. otoh just went to try to signup for Codeberg and it's down ... 95% uptime over the last 2 weeks? https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg

worldsavior 11mo ago
What? It says it's up for 98.56% for the last 2 weeks.
- qwertox 11mo ago
  That's probably the average. But if Codeberg Translate shines with 99.58%, it is an unnecessary entry which harms the "92.42% Codeberg.org" reality.
bayindirh 11mo ago
I mean, they're battling with DDoS all the time. I follow their account on Mastodon, and they're pretty open about it. I believe the correct question is "Why they are getting DDoSed this much if they are not something important?" For anyone who wants to follow: https://social.anoxinon.de/@Codeberg https://social.anoxinon.de/@Codeberg Even their status page is under attack. Sorry for my French, but WTF?
- letmetweakit 11mo ago
  That's rough ... it is a bad, bad world out there.
  - bayindirh 11mo ago
    Try exposing a paswordless SSH server to outside to see what happens. It'll be tried immediately, non-stop. Now, all the servers I run has no public SSH ports, anymore. This is also why I don't expose home-servers to internet. I don't want that chaos at my doorstep.

NitpickLawyer 11mo ago

Last week the reason for the move was MS tools being used by the baddies. Today AI is the baddie du jour. To use a great quote "either do or don't, but I got places to be".

latexr 11mo ago
The original post was specifically about technical grievances, “MS tools being used by the baddies” was mentioned only in passing. https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ > Putting aside GitHub’s relationship with ICE That was the extent of it. Six words. Furthermore, this submission is an independent post, not from Zig, reporting on the original and adding more context. > To use a great quote "either do or don't, but I got places to be". What exactly is your complaint? The move had already been completed at the time of the original Zig post. They did do it. There’s no incongruence between posts. The nature of your discontent or how it could possibly affect you isn’t clear in the slightest.
- throwawaypath 11mo ago
  [flagged]
otikik 11mo ago
> I got places to be Like, reading and posting on Hacker News?
- adastra22 11mo ago
  Don’t judge: we’re here too.
  - otikik 11mo ago
    I very openly don't have places to be
PunchyHamster 11mo ago

mkornaukhov 11mo ago

IMHO, the main advantage of github is that it is an ecosystem. This is a well-thought-out Swiss knife: a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system, convenient issues, as well as a well-formed CI system with many developed actions and free runners. In addition, it is best to use code navigation simply in a web browser. You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. Having a sponsorship system is also great, you don't have to search for external donation platforms and post weird links in your profile/repository. All in one, that's why developers like it so much. The obsession with AI makes me nervous, but the advantages still outweigh, as for me, the average developer. For now.

curcbit 11mo ago
Github'PR and CI are some of the worst.
baq 11mo ago
> a pioneering (but no longer new) PR system having used gerrit 10 years ago there's nothing about github's PRs that I like more, today. > code navigation simply in a web browser this is nice indeed, true. > You write code, and almost everything works effortlessly. if only. GHA are a hot mess because somehow we've landed in a local minimum of pretend-YAML-but-actually-shell-js-jinja-python and they have a smaller or bigger outage every other week, for years now. > why developers like it so much most everything else is much worse in at least one area and the most important thing it's what everyone uses. no one got fired for using github.
- delusional 11mo ago
  > having used gerrit 10 years ago there's nothing about github's PRs that I like more, today. I love patch stack review systems. I understand why they're not more popular, they can be a bit harder to understand and more work to craft, but it's just a wonderful experience once you get them. Making my reviews work in phabricator made my patchsets in general so much better, and making my patchsets better have improved my communication skills.
- CamouflagedKiwi 11mo ago

asim 11mo ago

The article is very hard to read, with ads on one side, links in every other sentence. I could not even figure out where Zig has gone... TLDR anyone? Edit: Scrolling comments I see something called Codeberg but why am I getting connection refused? Another edit: Oh because Codeberg is down. I had to look at another thread on the frontpage to find that out...

tacker2000 11mo ago

To be fair this has more to do with Github Actions than Github, which from the beginning was never really going to rival any professional solution. The people at Zig should use proper CI tools and not something that a big service provider is offering as an afterthought.

sunnyday_002 11mo ago
What is wrong with GitHub Actions other than the outages? I've never hit a issue myself.
- deathanatos 11mo ago
  Geez, where to start. I mean, … the outages are a big part of it. But those outages also extending to taking out my own hardware (e.g., through bugs like the above consuming resources on my own compute) is just double the pain. But as a product, it's just bad? Riddled with bugs? In no particular order: * Artifact APIs will return garbage results during a run. Note that the APIs are separate from the GHA actions for interacting with artifacts, and the latter uses undocumented APIs, presumably b/c the documented APIs are buggy AF. * needs.… will just return junk data, if you typo. * Builds of actions are not cached, making them rather slow. Many GH official actions hack around this by pointing the tag/branch (e.g., @v4) at a pre-built artifact. * The pricing is high, compared to other offerings. * The interface is just FUBAR: e.g., stdin is a pipe, which will wreak havoc on some commands that change their behavior when piped to. stdout & stderr are pipes, which although GHA ostensibly supports colored output, this basically renders it useless. * Jobs, steps, actions are conceptual mud. There's a few ideas, like "execute this thing" in there, but its all jumbled up/duplicated. Container settings are configured per-job, so if you want to run some steps in one container, and some in another, but in the same job, you're just going to be left out to dry. * Secrets are hard to manage, and even harder to not leak. * The expression language has all sorts of corners, like coerced types and functions with parse-time side-effects!. That's just a few of the bugs I've encountered.
  - sunnyday_002 11mo ago

reppap 11mo ago

One thing that's really nice about codeberg is how fast the pages load. Browsing GitHub often feels very sluggish. Obviously there's a difference in scale there, but I hope codeberg can keep being fast.

nromiun 11mo ago
That is surprising. It is the opposite for me. $ time curl -L 'https://codeberg.org/' real 0m3.063s user 0m0.060s sys 0m0.044s $ time curl -L 'https://github.com/' real 0m1.357s user 0m0.077s sys 0m0.096s
- Left5250 11mo ago
  That depends on location and GitHub pages generally take a while to execute all the javascript for a usable page even after the html is fetched while pages on Codeberg require much less javascript to be usable and are quite usable even without javascript. Here are my results for what it's worth $ time curl -o /dev/null -s -L 'https://codeberg.org' real 0m0.907s user 0m0.027s sys 0m0.009s $ time curl -o /dev/null -s -L 'https://github.com/' real 0m0.514s user 0m0.028s sys 0m0.016s
  - nromiun 11mo ago
    Sure, it depends on your internet connection. But for Codeberg I see a blank page for 3-4 seconds until it shows something. On a big repo like Zig the delay is even worse. On Github any page loads gradually and you don't see a blank page even initially.
- skydhash 11mo ago
  A better benchmark is done through the web browser inspector (network tab or performance tab). In the network tab I got (cache disabled) Github 158 requests 15.56 MB (11.28 MB transferred) Finish in 8.39s Dom loaded in 2.46s Load 6.95s Codeberg 9 requests 1.94 MB (533.85 KB transferred) Finish in 3.58s Dom loaded in 3.21s Load 3.31s

jillesvangurp 11mo ago

Zig is distributed under the MIT License. MS is completely with in their rights to clone the git repository from Codeberg and do whatever with the source code. Including feeding it to their AI algorithms. Moving it to Codeberg doesn't really fix that. I get that some people want to restrict what people can do with source code (including using it for capitalist purposes or indeed ai/machine learning). But the whole point of many open source licenses (and especially the MIT license) is actually the opposite: allowing people to do whatever they want with the source code. The Zig attitude towards AI usage is a bit odd in my view. I don't think it's that widely shared. But good for them if they feel strongly about that. I'm kind of intrigued by Codeberg. I had never heard of it until a few days ago and it seems like that's happening in Berlin where I live. I don't think I would want to use it for commercial projects but it looks fine for open source things. Though I do have questions about the funding model. Running all this on donations seems like it could have some issues long term for more serious projects. Moving OSS communities around can be kind of disruptive. And it probably rules out commercial usage. This whole Github is evil anti-capitalist stance is IMHO a bit out of place. I'm fine with diversity and having more players in the market though; that's a good thing. But many of the replacements are also for profit companies; which is probably why many people are a bit disillusioned with e.g. Gitlab. Codeberg seems structured to be more resilient against that. Otherwise, Github remains good value and I'm getting a lot of value out of for profit AI companies providing me with stuff that was clearly trained on the body of work stored inside of it. I'm even paying for that. I think it's cool that this is now possible.

CamouflagedKiwi 11mo ago
> Zig is distributed under the MIT License. MS is completely with in their rights to clone the git repository from Codeberg and do whatever with the source code. Including feeding it to their AI algorithms. Moving it to Codeberg doesn't really fix that. I get that some people want to restrict what people can do with source code (including using it for capitalist purposes or indeed ai/machine learning). But the whole point of many open source licenses (and especially the MIT license) is actually the opposite: allowing people to do whatever they want with the source code. MS training AIs on Zig isn't their complaint here. They're saying that Github has become a worse service because MS aren't working on the fundamentals any more and just chasing the AI dream, and trying to get AI to write code for it is having bad results.

jacquesm 11mo ago

Google workspace will have me do the same. No, I don't want to 'generate an image' I just want to use my own, thank you. They give their AI prime billing everywhere to the detriment of the products and the users.

ramon156 11mo ago

Maintain on codeberg, mirror to GH. Tell everyone to contribute on CB done.

Sammi 11mo ago
This seems workable to me. Github rose to prominence on the back of oss. What oss giveth oss can take away.
sundarurfriend 11mo ago
One problem is that GH gives you no way to disable PRs. And even if you write in BIG BOLD LETTERS that PRs should be on Codeberg not GH, people get upset and make a fuss over their "ignored" PRs and it ends up making unnecessary headaches for you over and over.
- forgotpwd16 11mo ago
  Can do it the @torvalds/linux way and have a bot auto-answer/close PRs. And, to be honest, probably is better to ignore people making a fuss over PRs.
  - sundarurfriend 11mo ago
    You can ignore them yourself, but people will get annoyed, take to social media, post "this project ignores PRs" "dead project" "they're not inclusive" etc. without context, and those things can gain momentum out of nowhere and have real consequences. And there will goalpost-shifting again, from "just mirror to GH" to "just accept PRs on GH too, why are they being so obstinate" and then further along. The Linux kernel is unlikely to get those and can survive that even if it does, but your average FOSS project can be severely damaged in terms of reputation, contribution, usage, etc., by this kind of stuff, even if you want to dismiss it as just "social media fluttering". Easier and safer just to keep things clean and clearly at one place.
closingreunion 11mo ago
Glad to see codebrg getting recognition. The age of relying on for profit corps for our digital commons needs to end.

sepisoad 11mo ago

I totally agree, Microsoft is ruining everything with AI, like all Microsoft product have been on decline for years even before the LLM era, and now they are on an even steeper decline. it makes me sad to see that github is now going through the same shit, and people are using other random half-ass alternatives, it’s not easy to keep track of your favourite open-source projects across many source forgeries. we need someone to buy github from Microsoft and remove all the crap they have added to it.

skydhash 11mo ago
> it’s not easy to keep track of your favourite open-source projects across many source forgeries. Most public forge instances and web presence for open source projects have RSS feeds.
aembleton 11mo ago
Or create an overview that keeps track of projects across multiple source control providers, using a consistent interface.
psychoslave 11mo ago
See, AI accelerate productivity, with it Microsoft is ruining its products and brand even faster!

liampulles 11mo ago

The main function of GitHub is really just advertising or at least broadcasting your work. I would use GitHub issues, stars, etc as an (imperfect gauge) of the quality of a library. This is not because of GitHub's features, just that it's the biggest and most well known. And yes I know buying stars is a thing, which is why it's part of the evaluation and not the whole ballgame. Now that zig is fairly well known and trusted, it makes sense that this is less of a concern for them when migrating away.

zer0tonin 11mo ago

This resonates with me. Last week I got stuck on a bug where GitHub actions was pulling ARMv7 docker images when I specifically requested ARMv8. Absolutely impossible to reproduce locally either.

samdoesnothing 11mo ago

Wait I thought they left because Github software engineers are "monkeys".

mittermayr 11mo ago

I hate these constant drama posts, but I am all for seeing competition. I think it's good to have a couple of top-tier companies offering the same service, and especially with git, it's been... lacklustre outside of Github, I'd say. Bitbucket was totally nice, but Atlassian and Jira and meh... Github has (mostly) steered clear of cross-product promotions until the CoPilot era washed all over us, and I wonder for how long they can continue to thrive off the power of brand-awareness. Same effect at play watching all the top-tier AI corps under heavy competitive fire still, trying hard to keep the audience attached while battling to stay on top of (or keep up with) the competition. This mainly (for now) benefits the user. If OpenAI were to trailblaze on their own, we'd all be paying through the roof for even the most basic GPT by now.

blibble 11mo ago
> I think it's good to have a couple of top-tier companies offering the same service "top-tier" is not a term I would use to describe Microsoft

aperture147 11mo ago

I don't get it, why did they allow GitHub bot to modify and merge pull request automatically? Yeah I agree that MS is ruining everything with AI, but this problem is avoidable, if they turn off the bot's auto merge feature, or turn it off completely. The reason they move to a lesser known Git provider sounds more like a marketing stunt.

literallyroy 11mo ago
What are you referring to? I may be missing a line from the article but it seems mostly focused around a lingering GitHub Actions bug and the direction of GitHub.
- aperture147 11mo ago
  Then... don't use GHA and move to other CI/CD/Workflow platform. If you try it, don't like it then don't use it, GitHub does not force you to use GHA anyway, and moving away from GitHub due to their direction sounds like a political movement. It's like someone who stop shopping from Walmart, not because they sells bad product but because they support the Republic, then going to a local shop that sometimes close unexpectedly sound unreasonable.
karel-3d 11mo ago
> I don't get it, why did they allow GitHub bot to modify and merge pull request automatically They didn't, poor wording on Register part. The pull request was closed for inactivity by the bot.
- simonask 11mo ago
  Again, perfectly avoidable.
  - baobabKoodaa 11mo ago
    Uhh we're talking about the pull request to safe_sleep, right? Not sure why you take that condescending tone when anecdata goes AGAINST your position.

keiferski 11mo ago

LLMs are useful, but AI is itself a marketing term that has begun to lose its luster. It’s rapidly becoming an annoying or trendy label, not a cutting edge one. I guarantee that in ~24 months, most AI features will still remain in some form or another on most apps, but the marketing language of AI-first will have evaporated entirely.

dr_dshiv 11mo ago
> AI is itself a marketing term that has begun to lose its luster. It’s rapidly becoming an annoying or trendy label, not a cutting edge one. Where have you been the last 15 years? However, I agree with your prediction. Coke making AI advertisements may have had cache a couple years ago, but now would be a doofus move.
- keiferski 11mo ago
  I don’t remember AI being used as a widespread marketing term until 2-3 years ago. Before that it was just more of a vague tech thing you’d sometimes see, but now every single app seems to have reframed their business to be about AI agents.
  - brabel 11mo ago
    There have been at least 3 waves of AI before the LLM generation. 70s , 80s and late 90s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter Early 2010s had a lot of neural networks AI stuff going on and it certainly became a minor hype cycle as well though that kind of resulted in the current LLM wave.
    - rsynnott 11mo ago
      There was also a small chatbot bubble around 2014-2016 (Microsoft Tay kinda blew it out of the water, and it never recovered), though companies did seem a bit skittish about using the term 'AI' at that point.
    - keiferski 11mo ago

mittermayr 11mo ago

Additional note on Codeberg, which I think is great as a project, but I got curious on what infrastructure they are running on and how reliable this would be for larger corporate repos. Nov 22, 2025 https://blog.codeberg.org/letter-from-codeberg-onwards-and-upwards.html https://blog.codeberg.org/letter-from-codeberg-onwards-and-u... Quotes from their website: Infrastructure status [...] We are running on 3 servers, one Gigabyte and 2 Dell servers (R730 and R740). Here's their current hardware: https://codeberg.org/Codeberg-Infrastructure/meta/src/branch/main/hardware https://codeberg.org/Codeberg-Infrastructure/meta/src/branch... [...] Although aged, the performance (and even energy efficiency) is often not much worse than with new hardware that we could afford. In the interest of saving embodied carbon emissions from hardware manufacturing, we believe that used hardware is the more sustainable path. [...] We are investigating how broken Apple laptops could be repurposed into CI runners. After all, automated CI usage doesn't depend on the same factors that human beings depend on when using a computer (functioning screen, speakers, keyboard, battery, etc.). If you own a broken M1/M2 device or know someone who does, and believe that it is not worth a conventional repair, we would be happy to receive your hardware donation and give it a try! [...] While it usually holds up nicely, we see sudden drop in performance every few days. It can usually be "fixed" with a simple restart of Forgejo to clear the backlog of queries. Gives both early-Google as well as hackerspace vibes, which can or can not be a good thing.

kachapopopow 11mo ago
oh wow I had a larger cluster than that since I was 20 more than half a decade ago, considering that the costs appear to be so low maybe I should also pop out few free services since at the moment I pay $600+ just on power costs alone for idle hardware on my personal cluster. If anyone has any ideas feel free to email me at: news.ycombinator.com.reassure132@passmail.net
- giancarlostoro 11mo ago
  Maybe you could reach out to the codeberg folks and loan them a server? Sounds like they could use all the help they can get.

woile 11mo ago

I think once Codeberg becomes federated, it will likely attract a lot of people. Right now github is great for discovering and tracking projects, reflecting growth via the star and fork system (although a bit broken in the last few years). If a federated layer is applied to these github alternatives, you could have an account in Codeberg, and be able to track lots of projects wherever people want to host them. Right now, I see a lot of forgejo servers, but I don't want to register in all of them.

miningape 11mo ago
+1 - I also see a huge opportunity for forgejo to become a new stackoverflow if they add federation The primary issue with SO was that it was disconnected from the actual communities maintaining the project. A federated solution would be able to have the same network effects while handing ownership to the original community (rather than a separate SO branch of the community)
amai 11mo ago
We need a fediverse app for version control.

brushfoot 11mo ago

The edit history of the announcement is quite a ride: > [2025-11-27T02:10:07Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress [1] > [2025-11-27T14:04:47Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining rookies eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress [2] > [2025-11-28T09:21:12Z] it’s abundantly clear that the engineering excellence that created GitHub’s success is no longer driving it [3] --- 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20251127021007/https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251127021007/https://ziglang.o... 2: https://web.archive.org/web/20251127140447/https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251127140447/https://ziglang.o... 3: https://web.archive.org/web/20251128092112/https://ziglang.org/news/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251128092112/https://ziglang.o...

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
testdelacc1 11mo ago
At least he edited it to something more palatable. I vastly prefer someone who can admit to making a mistake and amending what they said to someone who doubles down. The latter attitude has become far too normalised in the last few years.
- cyanydeez 11mo ago
  that attitude has and continues to approach a entire bloodless coup of the largest economy on the planet. The normalization, in fact, has been quite successful. The entire silicon valley has tacitly approved of it. You act like people arn't being rewarded for this type of behavior.
  - montroser 11mo ago

coopykins 11mo ago

Maybe this is a nice chance to ask, would you move from Gitlab to Github? I would say no, but some people in my org are proposing it, it seems to me simply because the integration it has with AI tools, but my experience has been worse in Github than with Gitlab.

yoyohello13 11mo ago
We self-host GitLab and I would fight a migration to GitHub with every fiber of my being. GitLab is just better in pretty much every way. Especially CI/CD.
miningape 11mo ago
For me they're both about equally shitty, but with Github you get a nice commit calendar to show off to recruiters - so Github wins IMO.
- davidee 11mo ago
  I believe the exact same exists in Gitlab under each user profile.
layer8 11mo ago
We are self-hosting GitLab, which you can’t with GitHub.

7222aafdcf68cfe 11mo ago

A lot of these forced "AI" integrations are essentially Clippy on steroids. A more careful approach focusing on use cases the technology can really support would be much preferred.

jbaiter 11mo ago

Am I in the minority when I actually like those AI features on GitHub? The ability to interrogate any open source codebase is __amazing__, this feature alone has saved me days of work/research. The AI code reviews are nothing to write home about, but occasionally catch stuff that I would've missed, a net benefit for me. I don't really get all the outrage... Sure, having an "Ask AI" Clippy-like thing in your face everywhere gets old quick, but at least on GitHub I find it non-obtrusive and often actually useful.

flohofwoe 11mo ago
...you can just clone the repository and do that interrogation locally with the AI tool of your choice. Every single application or webpage having its own AI integration is seriously one of the dumbest ideas in computing history (instead of separating applications and AI tools and let them work together via standardized interfaces).
- ramoz 11mo ago
  Github Copilot review is such a simple - optional - ux, it makes sense as a feature. I enjoy it.

rsynnott 11mo ago

Look, how is number to go up without constant AI bullshit? Won't somebody think of the shareholders! MS in particular _really_ seems to be sacrificing itself on the altar of Roko's Basilisk; they appear totally incapable of doing _anything_ that isn't AI-branded anymore.

johnjames87 11mo ago

Haven't noticed any AI problems or annoyances on GH.

jappgar 11mo ago

Why does ever HN thread read like a churlish blogger review of the latest installment of <popular-scifi-franchise>? Github is great. It barely changes at all and yet it's still too much for this originalist crowd.

vbezhenar 11mo ago

I like AI changes. Can change files from UI, will fill commit message for me. That's awesome.

Animats 11mo ago

Is anything broken on the pure Git side of Github? From this, it's clear that actions and runners are becoming unusable. But are repositories still safe?

miningape 11mo ago
Luckily it's harder to enshittify something you don't own
8organicbits 11mo ago
The outages break `git push`. I'm not a fan of the AI adoption within the UI, and the side bars when browsing code usually get in the way. Using GitHub as a dumb git backend isn't a great option either, look at the Linux kernels PRs, it's almost all spam. Why on earth can't PRs be disabled? https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclose...

_cenw 11mo ago

Seeing the decline of GitHub in Actions is technically correct, but Actions was always broken. We tried getting self-hosted runners to work super early before there was a proper ephemeral mode (just an officially unsupported race-condition-y --once flag). It sucked. That code can't produce a consistent status code, constantly failed to connect to its scheduler with obscure Azure error codes and had so many races with accepting and timing out jobs. Runners wouldn't get new jobs, jobs would sit there for an hour and then time out, runners would just die and need to be re-provisioned (we used ephemeral VMs in a GCP instance group). This is all because Actions is actually Azure DevOps Pipelines rebranded. Compared to then this product is downright mature now. And also, there always were people at GitHub who delivered crappy products outside the core that most people working on FOSS got to see. Enterprise Cloud has a ton of sharp edges and things that make you ask "WHY" out loud. Notifications with SAML enabled are broken in countless ways (I have 0 out of 12 notifications right now), newly onboarded users are encouraged to click a "request copilot" button that sends emails to admins you can't disable, policy toggles that used to do one thing get split up and not defaulted properly. The last two in particular are just dark pattern hacks to get people to use Copilot. In an enterprise product. I haven't used GHES, but I imagine it's worse.

codr7 11mo ago

Yep, all my new stuff is on Gitlab.

deadbabe 11mo ago

maybe I’m out of the loop, but what is the “obsession” with AI that’s ruining it? GitHub still works for me like it always has. How are other people using GitHub?

beanjuiceII 11mo ago

niche language does something, cool story

theultdev 11mo ago
It's a little more than a niche language now. Bun is made with Zig, and they just got acquired by Anthropic. Ghostty is another notable piece of software made with Zig. I assume the Bun acquisition is fueling most of this Zig news. There's about 4 articles on the frontpage about Zig.

Havoc 11mo ago

See also people switching from windows to Linux. MS need a stint of focusing on what users want rather than ramming stuff down their throat unasked hoping they’ll swallow

PunchyHamster 11mo ago
MS need someone that will slap people doing the second the moment some of the first happen. Securing base, easy to use and reliable OS should be no.1 priority. Forcing down the throat services the users largely do not want just breeds resentment, and not only in people treated that way but also anyone that hears about it. If W11 was "hey, we did some optimising, fixed some bugs and HEY, if you have TPM2.0, we can do that little step to make your machine more secure!" there would be far less resentment. Similarly with every other feature, ask user, present the benefits, fuck off if they don't want to. NOT "turn it on by default then let them try to figure out how to turn it off". And then ask them again every few days with only option being "remind me later" as current copilot feature for teams does.

jackfranklyn 11mo ago

[flagged]

rmoriz 11mo ago

Well, diversity is great but I think many people underestimate the quality and service of GitHub, especially the free services. Even commercial vendors have failed to provide such a free service over time (Docker Hub, Bintray, Sourceforge). They all have/had the power to earn money though commercial offerings and ads, but in the end had to cut down their free services. I still wonder, how codeberg plans to cover the exploding costs.

zerofor_conduct 11mo ago

I feel that training copilot on Github repos without maintainer consent was a betrayal - this pushed many projects over to Gitlab.

snarfy 11mo ago
You could say the same for any content used for training.
- WolfeReader 11mo ago
  You could and you should.

throw7 11mo ago

"Either you have to embrace the AI, or you get out of your career," Dohmke. Dohmke left CEO position of GitHub in November.

Pseudocrat 11mo ago
He left to found an AI startup
nish__ 11mo ago
Who's the CEO now?
- AlexeyBelov 11mo ago
  No one, they haven't filled this position and don't plan to.
PunchyHamster 11mo ago
CEO following their own advice is rare

ChrisArchitect 11mo ago

[dupe] Discussion on source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064571

QuadrupleA 11mo ago

Probably a good time to mention fossil, an excellent SCM from the makers of SQLite with a number of github-like features built-in: https://fossil-scm.org/ https://fossil-scm.org/ Single ~6mb executable, blazing fast. I've been a happy user for years.

WolfeReader 11mo ago
Fossil is great. I'd encourage anyone to try it out on their next personal project.
q3k 11mo ago
There's no code review system for Fossil, because the SQLite guy doesn't believe in formalized code review. It also doesn't have any good flow for accepting external contributions other than .patch/bundle files, because the SQLite guy doesn't believe anyone but him is good enough to regularly contribute code. It might be great for single person projects, which I guess is fine for hobby stuff, but unless you luck out like Richard Hipp and manage to become a well-paid hermit working in a effectively-one-person cathedral model, then it's not really going to work for most projects.
wuming2 11mo ago
Minimalist vps, download the executable, copy and paste apache config, activate and you are good to go. With certain providers you don't even need to buy a domain. Personal, small and medium sized projects are 99% of all projects.

phplovesong 11mo ago

And now a huge Zig user is purchased by an AI company. The tale as old as time.

vzaliva 11mo ago

Let me be blunt: this looks like a tantrum. Bugs exist, and they're sometimes fixed more slowly than we'd like, but given the size of the GitHub ecosystem this is probably just one of many outstanding bugs. Blaming AI is baseless - not that it couldn't be true, but the conclusion seems to be drawn from a single issue. What does this mean for the Zig project? I haven't heard of Codeberg, they may be great, but for a popular open-source project I'd expect a proper discussion before deciding to move or weighing the pros and cons of different hosting options. From what I'm hearing, Zig is technically excellent but seems to lack level‑headed, mature leadership. That's not unique: many open‑source projects started by brilliant engineers struggle as they grow and need a new leadership structure. That transition can be painful and could even harm adoption.

LtWorf 11mo ago
> I haven't heard of Codeberg That's more of a you problem really. > I'd expect a proper discussion before deciding to move And you know the discussion did not happen?
- metaltyphoon 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - LtWorf 11mo ago
    I am almost certain that the zig project will somehow manage to survive anyway without you following them. And now you know about an alternative to gh that isn't a for profit company! Yay!
    - metaltyphoon 11mo ago
      > I am almost certain that the zig project will somehow manage to survive anyway without you following them. It took longer than expected for this comment to show up.
deathanatos 11mo ago

zeroq 11mo ago

Pretty immature to be honest. I won't stop taking the bus because I don't agree with its drivers political views.

shevy-java 11mo ago

The reason is a bit strange. To me it seems as if Zig is just very opinionated. Personally I think the decision to move to Codeberg was made independently of Microsoft being a problem. I don't dispute that Microsoft is a problem; I just don't see many great alternatives to github either. Gitlab consistently is worse for me as a user. I think the bigger problem is that these big megacorporations control so much. I find Google even more problematic than Microsoft these days in that regard. AI worsens this problem, but even without AI it already was a problem.

AdamN 11mo ago
How is Bitbucket these days in comparison? Is it no longer even a player?
- RagnarD 11mo ago
  I used to use it, but left as it became apparent that Atlassian was increasingly incompetent in both software and business aspects to the point of both being badly broken.
- athorax 11mo ago
  Lets put it this way, no engineer is choosing to use bitbucket. You use it because some SVP made the mistake of choosing atlassian software a decade ago and refuses to change.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

a-dub 11mo ago

github actions is pretty terrible. the self hosted runner host is some horrific dotnet csharp mono monstrosity and "language" is some javascript wrapper nonsense that needlessly creates a half baked dsl around running basic shell commands. it has a pretty ui, but that's about it.

venturecruelty 11mo ago

I'm loving all the seething comments because a smart man who runs a good project is doing something a bunch of stealth GitHub employees don't like, even though it doesn't affect them. You don't have to use Zig, y'all. You don't have to agree with Andrew's opinions, y'all.

sharyphil 11mo ago

Move 'ZIG'. For great justice.

sleepybrett 11mo ago

I heard tell that everyone at github is now tasked with either AI or getting github running fully on azure.

gnutrino 11mo ago

GitHub is slow bloatware at this point. I can get a PR to load at least 2-3x faster in Graphite than GitHub. I avoid going directly to their UI at all costs now.

wuming2 11mo ago

You are a big name --> don't need GH for followers and contributors. You are a small potato --> GH gives way more followers than contributors. CI/CD is not good on GH either. At this point the problem is discovery. With a federated search engine the actual forge host would not be an issue anymore.

honkostani 11mo ago

[dead]

mawadev 11mo ago

We are seeing the realtime result of MS buying Github and buying influence. Put this into context with what happened to twitter when it was bought. I stopped hosting my code on GH, even in private repositories years ago. It is a privacy nightmare to think about LLMs ingesting this information. I believe this is a positive development for Zig to steer away from being entangled with whatever MS is pulling on Github next. It's like avoiding a landmine when you move away from something that is starting to go on a revenue driven tangent relative to its core use case. If you put the claims that Zig needs a big project or stay niche aside, a lot of things Zig brings to the table make working with memory and systems much easier for those who can't get into rust (like me). Just install it and play around with it to see for yourself. I wish we'd go back to being more exploratory instead of focusing so much on economics and careers where corporations can influence what is the right thing to do.

renrutal 11mo ago

I feel the biggest advantage about GitHub over other platforms is that many tools that integrate with a software project platform are GitHub first, others later. Tooling support can be miserable when you had something in BitBucket, GitLab, and non-existent if isn't those top 3.

nobodyandproud 11mo ago

Satya Nadella and his off-shore army has made a mess of many things in the last few years. In a big org and in an acquisition, the best engineers coming from that acquisition will find that they will have more impact elsewhere.

Mr_Minderbinder 11mo ago

> Over the weekend, Rodrigo Arias Mallo, creator of the Dillo browser project... This is wrong, that is the current maintainer. Jorge Arellano Cid is the creator of Dillo.

amai 11mo ago

We need a fediverse app for version control.

pi_lover 11mo ago

It is "Andrew KELLEY", not "Andrew KELLY"!