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Steam Frame
- theoldgreybeard 11mo agoWow was absolutely not expecting this. I need this.
- jsheard 11mo agoFrame is obviously the main headline here, but they've also launching a new SteamOS mini-PC and a new controller. https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller No prices listed for any of them yet, as far as I can tell.
- marcosscriven 11mo agoReal shame it’s only 60Hz at 4k. There’s a gap for good 120Hz@4k streaming. Hoping the next Apple TV will do it. Edit - updated specs claim it can do this, but it’s limited to HDMI 2.0
- skeaker 11mo agoWhere are you getting this number? I'm not seeing it on the specs page.
- marcosscriven 11mo agoThis is for the steam machine, not the headset. Mentioned in the CPU & GPU section.
- 4ndrewl 11mo agoit's confusing rn because on the steam machine post people are commenting on the frame and vice-versa here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404
- jsheard 11mo ago(rewriting this comment because the spec sheet has seemingly been updated) Looks like it can do 4k 120hz, but since it's limited to HDMI 2.0 it will have to rely on 4:2:0 chroma subsampling to get there. Unfortunately the lack of HDMI 2.1 might be down to politics, the RDNA3 GPU they're using should support it in hardware, but the HDMI Forum has blocked AMD from releasing an open source HDMI 2.1 implementation. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no-you-cant-make-an-open-source-hdmi-2-1-driver/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no...
- PaulHoule 11mo ago... but isn't it using a wireless dongle to connect to the headset to the PC so HDMI doesn't get involved? It seems to me the wireless is pretty important. I have an MQ3 and I have the link cable. For software development I pretty much have to plug the MQ3 into my PC and it is not so bad to wander around the living room looking in a Mars boulder from all sides and such. For games and apps that involve moving around, particularly things like Beat Saber or Supernatural the standalone headset has a huge advantage of having no cable. If I have a choice between buying a game on Steam or the MQ3 store I'm likely to buy the MQ3 game because of the convenience and freedom of standalone. A really good wireless link changes that.
- jsheard 11mo ago> but isn't it using a wireless dongle to connect to the headset to the PC so HDMI doesn't get involved? I'm talking about the Steam Machine here. In theory you could pipe 4k120 to the headset assuming there's enough wireless bandwidth, yeah.
- OGWhales 11mo agoIt seems it supports DP 1.4 as well, so perhaps you could get an adapter if your display only supports HDMI 2.1
- SchemaLoad 11mo agoI'm not sure that would work. From what I can tell, the adapters are basically dumb straight through cables, they aren't converting anything. And it's the actual GPU that's outputting a HDMI signal over the Displayport connector, which the adapter than rewires in to a HDMI shaped connector.
- srjek 11mo agoSo, in the specs for the mini-pc, it claims the video out can do 4K @ 120Hz (even faster if displayport). I assume the 4K @ 60Hz you saw is from the "4K gaming at 60 FPS with FSR" line. I reckon it can probably stream at 4K@120 if it can game at half that.
- marcosscriven 11mo agoInteresting. I also saw HDMI 2.0 - I guess it’s technically possible but with subsampling?
- constantcrying 11mo agoThis is not true, from the specs: HDMI 2.0 Up to 4K @ 120Hz Supports HDR, FreeSync, and CEC I have zero doubts the device can do 4k @ 120Hz streaming Hardware wise. In the end it is just a normal Linux desktop.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- torginus 11mo agoConsidering how much they talk about Foveated rendering, I think it might not be constrained by the traditional limitations of screens - instead of sending a fixed resolution image at whatever frequency, it'll send a tiny but highly detailed image where your eyes are focusing, with the rest being considerably lower resolution. Or that's what I think I may be completely wrong.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- phantasmish 11mo agoOh hell yes. There was a leak of specs (via a benchmarking database) of an upcoming machine from Valve and I had my fingers crossed that it was a mini PC and not some VR thingy, saw this thread, and was sad for a moment before I spotted this post. 6x as powerful as the Steam deck (that I use plugged in anyway 98% of the time—I’d have bought a Steam Deck 2, but I’m glad I get the option to put money toward more performance instead of battery and screen that I don’t use) is great. Not a lot of games I want to play won’t run well at least at 1080p with specs like that.
- torginus 11mo agoSnapdragon doesn't really have a good history of supporting proper desktop games. Windows for ARM had kinda bad compatibility. It seems the aim is to have most games just be playable like with the Deck. Fingers crossed but I have some reservations.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- phantasmish 11mo agoTheir new mini PC isn’t ARM (the Frame is, though), it’s AMD hardware like the Steam Deck. Appears to be x86, should play basically anything in my library at 1080p or higher as long as it works under SteamOS.
- JBiserkov 11mo agoA bit of topic, but I was wondering how much bigger is the steam machine compared to the mac mini m4, since that's what I have and is my frame of reference. Obviously comparing apples to oranges and only talking about physical volume, not features, compatibility, price, personal preferences, etc. Mac Mini m4: 127 x 127 x 50 mm = 0.8 L Steam Machine: 156 x 162 x 152 = 3.8 L That's 4.76 times more volume.
- latexr 11mo ago> Obviously comparing apples to oranges Or is it “comparing apples to steam engines”?
- TuringTest 11mo agoGiven that Valve are the ones who released the Orange Box, methinks the original comparison is valid
- bakies 11mo agoIt's only a little bigger than Mac Studio. 9.5 x 19.7 x 19.7 cm = 3,687 cm³ and half the size of my SFFPC @ 8.3L
- komali2 11mo agoI am incredibly excited for the new controller. The og steam controller for me was unmatched as a controller, I could never play any first person game on anything else other than mouse and keyboard, not to mention it allows playing rts or point and clicks from the couch. When they cancelled production I bought 8.
- tosmatos 11mo agoThe controller looks pretty cool for sure, my biggest fear is the dpad though. I hope they go for a clicky feel like on the latest xbox controllers, and not the mushy feel you've got on the Dualshock 5 or even the 8BitDo Pro 2, which, for me, really is the only think missing from those. I'm more of a "Dpad in the top left" kind of guy, but I want it to be clicky like on the Xbox controllers :( We'll see!
- komali2 11mo agoI'm with you on the dpad. For me I've never found better dpads outside of retro focused controllers from companies like 8bitdo, so when I want to play a retro game with dpad I just grab one of those and use my steam controller for everything else.
- thefz 11mo ago> Frame is obviously the main headline here Why? VR headsets are a dying fad of the 2020s. Way more excited for SteamOS on ARM.
- russelg 11mo ago... which likely wouldn't have happened if they didn't want a computer inside their VR headset. The steam machine is x86 considering it's an AMD processor.
- dev0p 11mo agoWHAT'S THE PRICE GABEN GABEN DON'T LEAVE ME HANGING WHAT IS THE PRICEEEEEEEE
- taeric 11mo agoI'm unreasonably excited on all things Steam nowadays. I still like my PS5. And the PSVR2 is quite amazing for the games it has. But Steam has been amazing in getting back into games for me in ways that I did not anticipate.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- reactordev 11mo agoThese links open Steam app on my phone and crash immediately.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- archi42 11mo agoSame here. Also happens when navigating there from within the all. Open the website in your browser instead.
- reactordev 11mo agoCrashes in the browser as well. Good job Valve.
- Ciantic 11mo agoWhat the, this link also crashes KDE Plasma, when opening this link with Google Chrome. I had to reboot two times, just clicking this frame link. Both times, first journalctl entry in the crash time is: [drm:__nv_drm_gem_nvkms_map [nvidia_drm]] ERROR [nvidia-drm] [GPU ID 0x00000100] Failed to map NvKmsKapiMemory 0x0000000070a84e8b Then KWIN dump etc. Reminding me to buy AMD next.
- reactordev 11mo agoThis is due to a video that has drm encoding and the browser trying to decode it. The drm blob contains the codec keys in our driver and the browser is supposed to negotiate this. It fails. At least on Nvidia for you. It fails for me on safari on iOS.
- seba_dos1 11mo agoDRM in context of that log message is Direct Rendering Manager which is a Linux subsystem for handling GPUs; it's unrelated to Digital Rights/Restrictions Management and there are no DRM-encumbered videos on that page.
- skeaker 11mo agoThis being a whole system that will allow you to put whatever software you want onto it makes me think that it might actually succeed at being what the Vision Pro wanted to be.
- taeric 11mo agoWell, that and being squarely focused on gaming. I also trust the Steam ecosystem far more than I probably should...
- crooked-v 11mo agoVision Pro wants to be an iPad on your face. The hardware's just not good enough (in the sense of general manufacturing capabilities, not lack of investment from Apple) to make that an enticing product yet.
- stetrain 11mo agoThis isn’t likely to be a compelling spatial computer. The pass-through video is monochrome and the screens have about 40% of the pixels compared to the Vision Pro. The Samsung Galaxy XR is much closer to being a Vision Pro competitor. The Steam Frame is very focused on playing games locally and streamed from a PC.
- Philpax 11mo agoI'd be willing to take the L on the hardware in order to be able to actually run the software I care about. (I own a Vision Pro and barely use it because the pejorative description of "an iPad on your face" is more accurate than I would like to admit.)
- stetrain 11mo agoI don’t know exactly how open the Android XR system on the Galaxy XR is, but it is likely better than the Vison Pro in that regard.
- skeaker 11mo agoMonochrome is rough, but I think pixel count is a few orders of magnitude less important than being able to actually use the damn thing. The Vision Pro has been out for over a year and I haven't seen a single notable application that takes advantage of the hardware, and it seems that that's largely in part due to it being nigh impossible to develop and run software on it.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- ark4n 11mo agoThat mini pc... one more nail in the coffin of the xbox hardware business. Ouch.
- 30minAdayHN 11mo agoI bought all my sim racing setup for my xbox. It was short-sighted but optimized for a quick decision. Now I feel like I'm stuck with it and can't upgrade the setup forward. Everytime I see these comments, it's one more nail in my wallet :)
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- rowanG077 11mo agoThis explains why alyssa rosenzweig (from asahi linux) was paid for so long by Valve. She worked on FEX.
- porridgeraisin 11mo agoWhat's fex? I wasn't able to google search it (didn't try too hard admittedly)
- Jordan-117 11mo agohttps://fex-emu.com/ https://fex-emu.com/
- Tankenstein 11mo agox86 to arm compatibility layer they are using to run windows games on the machine/frame
- srjek 11mo agoSteam Frame is running SteamOS on ARM, and is capable of playing games standalone, which implies ARM support in Steam. Through granted, it could be in a limited form.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 11mo agoThey'll need that either way if they want to get back onto macOS, even if it's separate binaries and not a translation layer. At this point I think Steam basically doesn't work on Mac? Since the x64 Macs are legacy and the new ones are aarch64
- preisschild 11mo agoI doubt fex-emu works on macos. But isnt that what Rosetta2 is for on mac anyway?
- iamcreasy 11mo agoRosetta2 will be discontinued.
- SchemaLoad 11mo agoIt technically works since ARM macs can still run x86 binaries. But it's so slow and buggy, and the selection of playable games so slim that there is almost no point.
- jagermo 11mo agothey are porting FEX to Proton, and according to the VRUpload article linked it has "shockingly little performance impact". This could be fun. https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX
- fallingmeat 11mo agoany idea on price?
- jagermo 11mo ago"below the index", according to the UploadVR article linked. So below 1000 USD
- Night_Thastus 11mo agoThe whole "foveated streaming" sounds absolutely fascinating. If they can actually pull off doing it accurately in real time, that would be incredible. I can't even imagine the technical work behind the scenes to make it all work. I'd really like to know what the experience is like of using it, both for games and something like video.
- rowanG077 11mo agoThere is a LTT video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU3ru09HTng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU3ru09HTng Linus says he cannot tell it is actually foveated streaming.
- Night_Thastus 11mo agoI believe in Linus very little. I'll keep my eyes peeled to see what others say. It's certainly possible though, Valve has the chops to pull it off.
- stetrain 11mo agoNorm from Tested said the same in his video. https://youtu.be/b7q2CS8HDHU https://youtu.be/b7q2CS8HDHU
- potatolicious 11mo agoThe Verge reports similarly - can't tell foveated streaming. Seems like Valve really cracked the code with this one.
- nabakin 11mo agoI don't think a lot of people realize how big of a deal this is. You used to have to choose between wireless and slow or wired and fast. Now you can have both wireless and fast. It's insane.
- ThatPlayer 11mo agoI'm disappointed it seems to have dropped lighthouse tracking with the previous Valve Index. Especially because with the Valve Knuckles controllers are my favorite with how they strap to your hand.
- Diti 11mo agoNot to mention the insane precision (I believe it’s something like 1 or 2 mm).
- starkrights 11mo agoPer the LTT video [0], the new Steam Frame controllers will have a (separately purchasable) accessory pack which includes a knuckles-like strap. Supposedly the controllers have enough capacitive-sensing ("on every input surface, and on the grips") for knuckles-like five finger tracking. Linus says "just like" the valve knuckles a couple times, but who knows how they'll feel comparatively. I've personally never used the knuckles, but they seem like they'd have a different enough feel from these to maybe make a difference. [0]: https://youtu.be/dU3ru09HTng?t=246 https://youtu.be/dU3ru09HTng?t=246 - timestampped @ controller section.
- ehnto 11mo agoThese new controllers look just like the Quest 3 controllers. Ergonomically I really like them, and they have capacitive touch for most surfaces as well.
- Fabricio20 11mo agoThis is my main concern with the new headset.. hopefully they have a way to support lighthouse.. maybe as an "upgrade" to the tracking if you already have a lighthouse setup. I play a game called VTOLVR and it's atrocious on the quest with inside-out tracking, because the game VERY often has you looking in a direction where your arm is behind your back or behind your leg (from the VR's perspective) and it completely loses tracking.. literally killing you in game sometimes. Think "looking up and behind you for threats" while your hand is in the throttle/stick for a combat plane.
- craftkiller 11mo agoExcited to see that it uses LCDs instead of OLED! One of the things holding me back from head-mounted displays is the short lifespan / burn-in issues of OLED. Also loving the replaceable batteries on the controller.
- marcosscriven 11mo agoPersonally I much prefer OLED, especially for VR, and haven’t had any burn in issues with OLED in any form for years.
- craftkiller 11mo agoEven modern OLED experience burn-in (despite them announcing every year that "this time we solved the burn-in issue!"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whuHuM9h88M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whuHuM9h88M VR is particularly bad for this because, on OLED, higher brightness = greater burn-in and VR headsets generally significantly over-drive their tiny displays. Naturally the solution to all of this is MicroLED which will have the benefits of OLED without the downsides. But until then, the only device I'm using OLED for is my phone (and only because I no longer have a choice).
- 0x457 11mo ago> Even modern OLED experience burn-in (despite them announcing every year that "this time we solved the burn-in issue!"): Yes, but it's not degrading as fast as OLED haters makes you think. I spent days playing the same games (so HUD is in the static place) on multiple OLED screens I owned for years. No noticeable burn-in and still looks better than my only IPS screen.
- AndroTux 11mo agoOLED only burns in if the content is static for hours. If your head is that stable while using VR, I give you $5.
- craftkiller 11mo ago
- Pfhortune 11mo agoAt last! I really enjoyed my time with the Oculus Quest 2, but could not stomach having Meta in my house/on my network. I sold it and resolved to either wait until I could get a good deal on an Index or Valve came around with something new, and now I can look forward to VR again!
- woile 11mo agoIs the steam controller registering as a joystick and a mouse? It could be amazing to manage my current media center! As I cannot make KDE detect my current controller as a mouse
- mmis1000 11mo agoIt seems the controller on steamdeck on windows detects as such when steam or whatever companion program is not running. Although in this state. You can only right click or left click by pressing against the pad itself. Although on Linux side. As far as i remembered, it's up to how kernel driver developer to map the device input into different class. It would be up to valve to decide what to do in this case.
- baq 11mo ago> You can only right click or left click by pressing against the pad itself The original steam controller’s LT and RT work as mouse buttons in mouse mode, too. Source: have 3 steam controllers
- mmis1000 11mo agoThere won't be 'mode' if neither steam or other 3rd software is running though. So it must default to one of control layout. Fortunately, controller on steamdeck does have enough button to fit both.
- ehnto 11mo agoFunnily enough, the Frame is running KDE Plasma so I bet it works pretty well.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- boriskourt 11mo agoAnd like the Steam Deck it will never be available in my region :) So much for globalization!
- xandrius 11mo agoKind of weird using AA batteries, I'd imagine something else would be better suited for this?
- Scene_Cast2 11mo agoI swapped all my AA and AAA batteries for Enelooops. The cheaper white ones are the best for most applications.
- archon810 11mo agoI'm frustrated by the error rate on my Eneloops over the years. I have dozens of them and I swear every other time I recharge them, one more starts blinking and refuses to recharge. Also I would recommend switching to the IKEA rechargeable batteries which are supposedly the same thing except cheaper.
- t-writescode 11mo agoAA means they don’t have to handle battery replacements; and it’s not too-too hard to get rechargeable batteries. I would prefer batteries in machine, too; but this does have some sustainability and repairability (by not needing it) advantages.
- deltoidmaximus 11mo agoThe (now original) Steam controller used AA batteries as well. I can't say it was my favorite feature but I did appreciate that it made "battery replacements" a cinch.
- slg 11mo agoYou're right that it's "not too-too hard" to get them, but it's also "not too-too easy" to actually use them in comparison just plugging a USB-C cable into the device. The process you will have to go through to recharge this will become incredibly annoying for something that will eat through batteries as quickly as a VR headset. Think of all the criticisms Apple has received over the years due to the Magic Mouses charging port being on the bottom and that only needs a charge every couple months, this will need to be charged after a few hours of use.
- vadansky 11mo ago>2160 x 2160 LCD (per eye) Here's hoping it will be like the Deck and we get Frame OLED in a year or so.
- archi42 11mo agoLast time I read up on OLED in VR, it was said that pancake lenses dissipate too much light. Might be dated of course, and iirc there is now at least one OLED+pancake HMD on the market.
- asadotzler 11mo agoSeveral. Vision Pro, Galaxy XR, and Meganex 8K, and more coming like Crystal Super / Dream Air.
- ghosty141 11mo agoI have the Bigscreen Beyond 2 which is OLED + pancake fine. But only if you have the perfect light seal that the BSB face gasket ensures. Your eyes just adjust to it and I never thought about it while using it. The upside of having perfect blacks is sooooo worth it in my opinion. Flight sims in VR at night are an amazing experience
- charcircuit 11mo agoThat is micro OLED and is more expensive than regular OLED.
- AaronAPU 11mo agoThe only really incredible VR experience I have had so far was Half-life Alyx. Is there anything that tier or even better these days?
- JulesRosser 11mo agoDriving Sims, PavlovVR was a must play for a counterstrike shooter with great modding scene. Of course Skyrim VR, it's unplayable without mods but with voice recognition and QOL mods it's incredible,
- gruturo 11mo agoI have close to 150 hours in Skyrim VR. What makes it unplayable without mods?
- tianreyma 11mo agoOn my own system I've played a lot of modded Beat Saber. Arizona Sunshine was good but not very long. Other than that mostly just mini game type things like The Lab. One of my friends also has a KAT Walk C2 and I've played Skyrim VR on that. It takes a bit to get used to but it's a lot of fun.
- ghosty141 11mo agoThere are some games yes but in my opinion right now the best VR experiences are simulators. Assetto Corsa, iRacing, DCS, MSFS etc. I bought a Bigscreen Beyond 2 + 5090 gpu basically just to play DCS (Digital Combat Simulator, a flight sim with full fidelity figher jets that you can even fly in PvP multiplayer) and it's the coolest thing VR has to offer for me. All my relatives and friends who tried it were stunned too.
- riskable 11mo agoBeat Saber is the ultimate VR game, IMHO. It's what enabled me to create this masterpiece: https://replay.beatleader.com/?scoreId=20010657 https://replay.beatleader.com/?scoreId=20010657 :D
- 11mo ago
- Apocryphon 11mo agoIs this built by HTC, like the Vive is/was? Either way, RIP HTC.
- torginus 11mo agoWhoo - first party support - including a graphics stack on ARM! I hope this means the GPU and drivers is advanced enough to run fully featured modern video games. Windows for ARM was kinda sunk by the fact that the GPU wasn't compatible enough due to the crappy drivers and outdated GPU uArch optimized for mobile games. I'm still kinda on the fence about VR, but I hope ARM + Linux succeeds in a big way and this'll make a truly handheld Steam Deck possible.
- modeless 11mo agoFoveated streaming! That's a great idea. Foveated rendering is complicated to implement with current rendering APIs in a way that actually improves performance, but foveated streaming seems like a much easier win that applies to all content automatically. And the dedicated 6 GHz dongle should do a much better job at streaming than typical wifi routers. > Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a browser, do what you want: It's your PC. It's an ARM Linux PC that presumably gives you root access, in addition to being a VR headset. And it has an SD card slot for storage expansion. Very cool, should be very hackable. Very unlike every other standalone VR headset. > 2160 x 2160 LCD (per eye) 72-144Hz refresh rate Roughly equivalent resolution to Quest 3 and less than Vision Pro. This won't be suitable as a monitor replacement for general desktop use. But the price is hopefully low. I'd love to see a high-end option with higher resolution displays in the future, good enough for monitor replacement. > Monochrome passthrough So AR is not a focus here, which makes sense. However: > User accessible front expansion port w/ Dual high speed camera interface (8 lanes @ 2.5Gbps MIPI) / PCIe Gen 4 interface (1-lane) Full color AR could be done as an optional expansion pack. And I can imagine people might come up with other fun things to put in there. Mouth tracking? One thing I don't see here is optional tracking pucks for tracking objects or full body tracking. That's something the SteamVR Lighthouse tracking ecosystem had, and the Pico standalone headset also has it. More detail from the LTT video: Apparently it can run Android APKs too? Quest compatibility layer maybe? There's an optional accessory kit that adds a top strap (I'm surprised it isn't standard) and palm straps that enable using the controllers in the style of the Valve Index's "knuckles" controllers.
- xeonmc 11mo ago> Roughly equivalent resolution to Quest 3 and less than Vision Pro. This won't be suitable as a monitor replacement for general desktop use. But the price is hopefully low. Question, what is the criteria for deciding this to be the case? Could you not just move your face closer to the virtual screen to see finer details?
- modeless 11mo agoNot only would it be a chore to constantly lean in closer to different parts of your monitor to see full detail, but looking at close-up objects in VR exacerbates the vergence-accommodation mismatch issue, which causes eye strain. You would need varifocal lenses to fix this, which have only been demonstrated in prototypes so far.
- pierrec 11mo agoThe death of VR has been greatly exaggerated. The only thing that died is the hype, and the hype will not be missed. It's just nice to have so much less bullshit.
- lostmsu 11mo agoWill the eye tracking data be directly available to developers? Also, can I hack the OS? Specifically interested in direct VR rendering (other headsets don't allow to bypass compositor).
- Melonai 11mo agoPretty sure the OS is just the same old Steam-flavored Linux distro "SteamOS" with ARM support and some new graphics pipeline stuff for the VR portion, though we don't know until it's actually out. Though Valve has put a focus on developer ease and very low software lockdown in the recent years with their hardware, so I'd say the chances on direct rendering are quite good!
- mmis1000 11mo agoWondering what window/desktop manager will valve ship with the new steam frame. Is there even a desktop/window manager work with 3d space currently? Will that be a mod of kde or something?
- zozbot234 11mo ago> Is there even a desktop/window manager work with 3d space currently? The best known is perhaps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass but there's many others, at varying stages of development. It will be interesting to see if custom OS/UX development is made available for this device. We'd also need quite a bit of custom development to make the OS comprehensively usable with gamepad-like controllers alone (no mouse or keyboard required). The existing work on "10-ft." media center interfaces can provide a useful starting point for this but it's far from covering all possible uses.
- marknutter 11mo agoSo it connects to your PC via Wifi? I could use this anywhere in my house as far away from my computer as I want?
- starkrights 11mo agoI think it depends on whether or not you have good 6ghz connectivity. The headset comes with a 6ghz usb dongle pluggable to your rendering PC for locales without a 6ghz router or good 6ghz penetration, but due to 6ghz lack of wall-penetrating capability, that's probably going to be more/less line-of-sight. The LTT video [0] does explicitly mention the ability to use either mode of connection though- over your existing wifi network, or via their 6ghz dongle. It's somewhat unclear if the headset would function over a non 6ghz connection (regardless of quality- supposedly 2.4/5ghz VR-over-wifi is pretty rough due to channel congestion and maybe bandwidth limits) The headset is also capable of being its own renderer, ie, it can do 'mobile' vr games (android apks like on the quest, eg). That functionality wouldn't need a connection to your PC at all. [0]: https://youtu.be/dU3ru09HTng?t=445 https://youtu.be/dU3ru09HTng?t=445 - timestamped at wireless segment
- Mashimo 11mo agoI thought 6Ghz is not allowed world wide? For example Germany? Are you sure it's not just wifi6?
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- fulafel 11mo agoGermany allowed it in 2021 or so. The biggest variation is above 6 GHz: most of the world allows 5.9-6.4 but reserves 6.5-7 GHz for cellular or haven't decided yet if it'll be for wifi or cellular. There's a nice map on https://6ghz.info/ https://6ghz.info/
- Mashimo 11mo ago
- Insanity 11mo agoThis is going to be an instant buy for me, and my first VR device ever. I've used the previous Steam VR headset over at a friends' place many times, but never bit the bullet to get one myself. The fact that this can run standalone, doesn't have a bunch of wires dangling from it, and is pretty much a fully working Linux box makes this am almost on-brainer for me. I do _hope_ the price is reasonable though, if it ends up being like Apple VR I might not buy into it immediately, but I'm hoping for a reasonable $1000 max price.
- vunderba 11mo agoI can't imagine it exceeding ~1k USD - they've got to at least keep it reasonably competitive with the Meta Quest which is around half that.
- aljgz 11mo agoMeta Quest 2 owner here, with all the damage to UX after Oculus was acquired by Meta, I'll lean towards something from steam, even with a 2-3x price tag. I don't think I'm the norm, but probably neither an exception
- hadlock 11mo agoI realize this might not be the case for everyone, but for me, $600 premium is easily worth it to "jailbreak" the meta game store. Steam was here for ~25 years and I expect it to be around in another 25 years. My Quest 1, an absolute Dinosaur of the VR world now, 2019, barely works at this point, is out of support and Meta still haven't open sourced the firmware for it.
- egoisticalgoat 11mo agoSeconding this, I love my Quest 1 but at this point it's looking more and more like it'll turn into a brick at some point. The Frame looks like the next best non-meta alternative, and a damn good one at that.
- lynndotpy 11mo ago
- LukaD 11mo agoThis looks really cool, but USB-A on the wireless adapter? Really?
- phantasmish 11mo agoPretty sure the vast majority of device ports on plugged-in devices in my house are still USB-A. And the only non-phone/tablet devices I have that are C-only are Apple, I’m pretty sure. Everything else has at least one A port. It’s only just getting to the point that if I search for USB peripherals (mice, flash sticks, whatever) in a non-Apple online computer hardware store without specifying I want USB-C, some of the first page results might be USB-C. USB-A appears poised to remain the safe choice that least-often demands your customer also buy an adapter for another couple years, minimum.
- krzyk 11mo agoIt is my second laptop I got from my employer (replacement every few years) and it also has just usb c ports. I hate plugging in usb-a adapter. I would at least expect adapter included for usb c.
- mmis1000 11mo agoI'st much less likely to break a usba dongle compare to usb c though.(the area is much mcuh bjgger) And I don't think the dongle really need the 40gb potential of a usbc port.
- Fabricio20 11mo agoI mean.. my X670E motherboard (a high end, modern mobo!) has only ONE usb-c port.. it has, in comparison, 3 usb-a 10gbps ports and another 4x usb-a 5gbps ports. Given the headset's main use case to be plugged in is for PC-VR game streaming, it makes sense that they'd go with USB-A. Maybe in a few years they can switch but right now most desktop mobos barely even have usb-c.
- dontlaugh 11mo agoSome motherboard have a rear USB-C, but no internal front panel header. Desktop is so far behind on ports.
- newsclues 11mo agoGood engineering discussion from gamers nexus https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bWUxObt1efQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bWUxObt1efQ
- cube2222 11mo agoThis is fantastic! A while ago I bought the Quest 3 and set it up with WiFi 6 for streaming games. It's a decent setup, but I only bought it cause I was tired of waiting for the "rumored new headset by Valve". And it seems everything on my wishlist is here: - foveated rendering based on eye tracking - this is excellent, and was I think only available in the Quest Pro until now - a dedicated wireless streaming dongle, with multiple radios on the headset - awesome, tuning WiFi 6 got me to a good-enough state, but I'm looking forward to a dedicated out-of-the-box solution - pancake lenses - inside-out tracking In general, having had the Valve Index previously, and then using the Quest 3, it's a night-and-day difference to play something like Alyx wireless. Much better clarity with pancake lenses, too. Main surprise here is their usage of a Snapdragon chip and not AMD, didn't expect this. I thought it would effectively be a steam deck hardware wise. Curious to see how well that works, esp. for standalone gaming. In practice though you'll likely want to be streaming any "pc-first" titles anyway.
- ge0n111 11mo agoI think they made the right choice with Snapdragon chip... it will drop in and work as a dev kit for all the android toolchains that support quest3, devs will easily port quest3 games etc... so it's basically a non-spyware quest3 which is what everyone wants at this point. Custom drivers on the wifi 6 dongle are going to likely offer the best wireless experience, which again is what everyone wants. I'm curious how meta responds imo the only way to compete is on price/ease of use but i'm not interested in another quest the 'social features' are just an excuse to collect data.
- ehnto 11mo ago100%, a non-spyware Quest 3 is what I wanted. The Q3 is a fantastic headset, easily the best amalgamation of features at the right level of performance. Very pragmatic. But Meta basically having access to my room in 3D, full audio, is not ideal. The very last company I want to invite into my home.
- vunderba 11mo agoFrom the spec sheet: > Large FOV (up to 110 degrees) Sigh. More than a decade later and we're still stuck at "submarine periscope" Field of view level. As somebody who's used the Pimax (~180-200 FOV), your definition of "large" may vary. > Headstrap includes integrated dual audio drivers and and rechargeable battery on rear. Freaking thank you. Apple failed hard to learn the lesson of - it's not necessarily the weight that matters, it's the distribution of the weight.
- dzonga 11mo agokudos to them for using AA batteries for the controller. will help the hardware last longer. cz non-removable lithium batteries suck.
- SchemaLoad 11mo agoMaybe, but I've seen more controllers destroyed by AA batteries that leaked and corroded the contacts than internal batteries that failed.
- jackvalentine 11mo agoIt’s good that we have decent NiMH batteries that I don’t think leak like alkaline ones do (I’ve never seen one!). Lower voltages, but flatter discharge curve so pretty much everything works with them.
- foresto 11mo agoLet me guess: were they alkaline batteries, left in the device while not in use for several weeks or months?
- arduinomancer 11mo agoI’ve never seen that in my entire life
- foxandmouse 11mo agoInteresting they went with the 8 Gen 3 instead of something like the X Elite. From what I’ve seen, the 8 Gen 3 actually outperforms the Elite in emulation and running PC games. I wonder if that factored into the decision.
- aezart 11mo agoWonder if/when prescription lenses will be available for it. I had to get some for my index since my glasses were too big to fit inside the headset.
- klipklop 11mo agoThere will be.
- anonymars 11mo agoDeckard at last! https://isvalvedeckardout.com/ https://isvalvedeckardout.com/
- skrebbel 11mo agoWhat a weird site. Am i getting it right that this "Deckard" was the code name for the Frame, it's out now, but the makers of the site went through all that trouble make a dotcom and a pedantic design but can't be bothered update it now that it is, indeed, out?
- drivers99 11mo ago> it's out now It's not out, just announced.
- ethersteeds 11mo agoThe timeline on the site you're critiquing says the project was confirmed in 2021. So they've been waiting a while. And it's not out, it was "revealed" today with "early 2026" estimate for availability. No price yet. https://store.steampowered.com/sale/hardware https://store.steampowered.com/sale/hardware
- stetrain 11mo agoThe site has been updated, it says "Announced on Steam — not out yet." The headset isn't being released until early 2026.
- tym0 11mo agoNow that they've ported Steam to Android with FEX + Proton [0] (what this is running), the question is will they release it for the rest of Android devices? There is a ton of Android gaming handhelds and people are already experimenting with things like Winlator [1] but having well supported way could be awesome. [0] https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX [1] https://github.com/brunodev85/winlator https://github.com/brunodev85/winlator
- zzsshh 11mo agoGoogle has also agreed to officially open up to competing app stores from the next version(https://www.theverge.com/policy/813991/epic-google-proposed-settlement https://www.theverge.com/policy/813991/epic-google-proposed-...), so the time is ideal for this. Valve, if you're reading this, please release Steam for Android.
- robhlt 11mo agoIt's running SteamOS according to the tech specs on the store page, not Android. https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamframe https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamframe
- SSLy 11mo agothis has nothing to do with Android
- TGower 11mo agoUnfortunately not, at least outside of the Linux VM shipping in new Android versions https://wiki.fex-emu.com/index.php/FAQ#Will_FEX-Emu_.28Linux_emulation.29_run_on_Android.3F https://wiki.fex-emu.com/index.php/FAQ#Will_FEX-Emu_.28Linux...
- tym0 11mo agoIt appears I was wrong about Android. The fact that they said you could just install APKs on it made me think what they called SteamOS was just Android here but your link is clear that FEX doesn't run there. Guess they have yet another translation layer to run these APKs?
- cortesoft 11mo agoThis looks fantastic. The only negative I see so far it is only monochrome passthrough. The full color passthrough on the Quest 3 is pretty killer, it sucks to go backwards on that.
- Zarathruster 11mo agoI guess we're in a minority but I'm in full agreement. Color passthrough really felt like a game-changer, and I've long wished for a more open, non-Meta alternative. Guess we'll be waiting a bit longer
- mavamaarten 11mo agoI have a quest 2 where the passthrough is laughable. Would you really use it for anything other than getting a glimpse of the outside world? I sure don't, but that may be because of the shitty camera's. But I never saw the appeal of passthrough anyways, isn't the point of a VR headset to see a different reality? Like, not the real world?
- dvngnt_ 11mo agowith the galaxy xr, you don't have to choose. sometimes it's good to have windows in your reality, other times you can go to a fully immersive mode with different environments
- cortesoft 11mo agoI have both a quest 2 and quest 3 and you are right, the quest 2 is laughable. The quest 3 is WAY better, and is way closer to making it feel like you are just looking through glass (not quite, but on the way). Eh, I don't use it for augmented reality a TON, but there are some fun apps that my kids and I like to use that use the passthrough for augmented reality... one is a virtual aquarium thing where you can draw 'windows' on your wall that become a window to the ocean, with things swimming around. It is pretty cool. I mostly use it, though, for short term moving around things, like to pick up something in the real world or to figure out where I am. I guess that can work in monotone, but it really feels cool in full color.
- 11mo ago
- VikingCoder 11mo agoThey mention tracking the new Steam Controller, too. Which makes me wonder if they'll make a new Steam Deck that has the IR emitters in it, so the Frame could track the Deck? I wonder if the two working together could work well?
- slg 11mo agoIt's interesting to see them putting more attention on playing traditional games with this. I have long thought that the most broadly viable use for VR headsets in gaming is giving users a big screen to play their regular games. There just doesn't actually appear to be much market for true VR games considering all the complicating factors like motion sickness or requiring a big play area. It reminds me of the Nintendo Wii. Taking turns playing Beat Saber with a few of your friends is fun just like Wii Sports was, but in the end people are going to spend a lot more time sitting on their couch to play something more traditional like Mario Kart.
- davedx 11mo agoIt looks stunning, great design there There's a devkit... I'm disappointed, that's the Sony method? I actually tried to do dev for the Meta Quest 2 the other week and was disappointed there because it's my son's, and he can't sign up for a Meta dev account (age), so there's no way for me to do anything with it without factory resetting the thing. This is more disappointing though. Why can't I dev games for the consumer headset?
- charcircuit 11mo agoHave you tried adding a second user on the headset with your own account?
- davedx 11mo agoYes that was the next thing I tried, but only the device "owner" can do development on it. The only solutions were 1) factory reset and take ownership of my son's device 2) buy another Quest
- TGower 11mo agoIt sounds like the dev kit is more of a way to get devices out to devs before the full launch, I'm sure you can develop using the consumer hardware. The Adam Savage Tested video had interviews with the Valve team and it was pretty clear that "it's your computer" was a core part of the philosophy.
- mmis1000 11mo agoI'm sure you can develop using the consumer hardware. I'm sure you can develop using the consumer hardware. > It depends though. Some console's devkit have memory or vram larger than consumer device. So it will allow un-optimized dev version of the softwares to run without crash. (And allow you to check what part goes wrong later instead of immediately fix it) Although you will need to test the production build on retail device eventually, it will make development easier.
- davedx 11mo ago
- brazukadev 11mo agoSteam is becoming what Google or Apple was in the past but much better, I like it.
- poly2it 11mo agoA resolution of 2160@110° is kind of low normally, effectively being around 20 pixels per degree. I wonder if they could pull off something like what the engineers behind the Simula VR headset did, where they shift the outer resolution to the centre of the lens, up to 35.5 PPD, higher than the Apple Vision Pro. Last I checked, it was difficult to find off-the-shelf VR displays suitable for pancake lenses with a resolution above 2160, so this might be the best option. https://simulavr.com/blog/ppd-optics/ https://simulavr.com/blog/ppd-optics/
- StumpChunkman 11mo agoAnybody know the limiting factor to providing lower IPDs on VR headsets? My wife had always struggled with this with an IPD in the 50s when we were exploring early gen VR headsets. The Frame bottoms out at 60.
- daemonologist 11mo agoAs you lower the IPD you're scrunching the displays and optics closer and closer together and at some point you mechanically run out of room. You'd need to reduce the FOV or add mirrors or something to get the lenses to fit. There's probably also an element of it not being worth complicating the design to chase users in the long tail of IPDs. (My IPD is about 72, which is slightly outside the range on the other end for this and most other headsets, despite it being less of a mechanical challenge.)
- skywal_l 11mo ago> Steam Frame Controllers: Powered by AA batteries (rated 40 hours) Yes, I want to see standard batteries being used more. Too bad they didn't go with this on the Steam Controller.
- krzyk 11mo agoWhy? It is a bummer to keep them, buy them when suddently they stop working, etc. While chargeable needs just a usb-c socket.
- akdev1l 11mo agoDevices with internal batteries basically have embedded expiration dates. Standard AAA or AA can be rechargeable so you don’t need to keep buying more. I’d suggest buying like a 100 pack or something, they’re not expensive.
- archon810 11mo agoThe ideal would be rechargeable AA battery support with a built-in USB-C that would natively support charging said AA battery.
- SchemaLoad 11mo agoAA batteries have lots of different chemistries and they require different chargers or can't be charged at all.
- benoau 11mo agoYou can also get a USB charger for them which is very convenient.
- WorldPeas 11mo agoAt this point so many battery packs use the 2 double-a batteries side-by-side, I wish they just sold those as a usb-c rechargeable cartridge, that would make a lot of sense
- nick49488171 11mo ago2160x2160 in each eye for the headset
- moffkalast 11mo ago110 deg fov is a bit on the low side but I guess it'll have to do. I hate how 90% of VR headsets are designed to feel like you have binoculars strapped to your face, absolutely zero peripheral vision.
- hinkley 11mo agoOne of the reasons I put off getting corrective lenses for a long time and kept trying to use contacts despite how horrible they make my eyeballs feel, is that I have an extremely wide peripheral vision. I can see my fingers wiggle behind the plane defined by my shoulders, I will react to motion out there. Having my FoV dumbed down to 90º sounds like hell, especially in a game where we are looking for opponents. Playing Doom on a widescreen monitor with the FoV modifications made it a lot less annoying. I want that even more today.
- reliabilityguy 11mo ago> I can see my fingers wiggle behind the plane defined by my shoulders I am a bit confused: you can see your shoulders while you are looking forward?
- embedding-shape 11mo ago> I am a bit confused: you can see your shoulders while you are looking forward? I can just about see my shoulders when i look forward, I'd probably also say my field of vision to be "the plane of view defined by my shoulders".
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- hinkley 11mo ago
- Dilettante_ 11mo agoThat's gonna be one expensive BeatSaber machine, but after having owned an Index (and really feeling how nice that headset was when I got my current Quest 2), there's no way I'm not gonna get one.
- AISnakeOil 11mo agoValve just defeated Meta and Xbox in one go. nice.
- vanadium1st 11mo agoSuch a miss not having good full-color AR included. I’m a VR enthusiast with a Meta Quest 3, and it’s a shame that this headset is better than the Quest in every way except the most important one. In my opinion, VR gaming never becomes more than a gimmick. It adds a questionable improvement in graphics and immersion at the incredibly high cost of excluding yourself from the real world. Right now it’s not worth it, and I don’t think it ever will be, no matter how good the graphics get. That’s assuming they even solve the motion sickness problem, which doesn’t seem solvable to me at this point. The motion controls in VR will also always be severely limited by the fact that you can’t see your surroundings. You can’t meaningfully move around or swing your arms fast in any realistic home environment when you’re in full VR. You’re constantly at risk of punching something or breaking something, or both. So the controls have to become really stiff and avoid requiring wide movement, at which point you might as well just push buttons on a gamepad. But AR is a completely different thing. No motion sickness, no risk in any movement, you can move around without silly threadmills, and no exclusion from the world. It’s truly amazing. The AR boxing, pickleball, ping pong and golf are so much closer to real thing then to a videogame adaptation, even the shitty Quest graphics don't ruin the magic. Those AR experiences don't work on videogame rules and really deserve their own name and category - they're as different from gaming as books are from movies. If VR headsets don’t die out, AR is going to be the thing that brings them to the mainstream. I just wish it had more attention, more apps, and more non-Meta mainstream platforms. Not this time, sadly.
- madsushi 11mo agoThere's an expansion port on the front with a camera interface, so you could add on better AR cameras.
- modeless 11mo agoValve is focused on making a device that works well with their existing game catalog. It's a Steam device first, and it needs to be inexpensive to compete with Quest (which is subsidized by Meta), so they need to prioritize which features get included. I wouldn't be surprised to see a first party AR camera attachment a while after launch. The expansion port seems specifically designed for this, with the inclusion of MIPI CSI lanes for two cameras.
- cadamsdotcom 11mo agoLooks exciting! It would be amazing if the headset turns out to be useful for coding without a monitor. Say, in the park.
- z3t4 11mo agoIt's doable. But you need 8k per eye to read text comfortable. But what would you use for input?
- cadamsdotcom 11mo agoA compact keyboard and an accelerometer based mouse replacement. All wireless of course. There are a few devices on the market that’d fit the bill.
- gdown 11mo agoLike a wii-mote kind of thing? Is there anything out that's good enough for general desktop usage? I'd be really interested if it's actually at a usable state.
- cadamsdotcom 11mo agohttps://www.tapwithus.com/ https://www.tapwithus.com/
- p1necone 11mo agoBeing in the park kinda loses its lustre when you've got a headset strapped to your face - I'd prefer a laptop with a screen that's still visible in sunlight.
- thaumasiotes 11mo ago> I'd prefer a laptop with a screen that's still visible in sunlight. I don't understand why Amazon worked so hard to replace their neutral gray Kindles with "Kindle PaperWhite". Paper, the material, is so white that trying to read it in sunlight will hurt your eyes. Why would you want a white reading surface instead of a gray one?
- PaulKeeble 11mo agoLittle disappointing its not got colour passthrough. I am not convinced this generation of headsets will really be the ones that AR breaks through but still its a bit disappointing and has been useful with the latest Quest headsets. Other than that it looks fairly solid.
- wlesieutre 11mo agoIt was noted in some articles that the "expansion port" could hypothetically be used for a color passthrough module later. But I also read that the Index had a similar port and never did much of anything with it, so that may never happen. Definitely a cost measure to not include color passthrough, I'm not in the market to replace my Quest 3S but I'm very curious to see what price they hit with this. Nice that it has a microSD slot so you can buy the low storage on and not be stuck with 256 GB forever.
- mottey 11mo agoIf it all launches with Half-Life 3 that works seamlessly across all 3 Steam platforms then we're living in the best timeline...
- krior 11mo ago> then we're living in the best timeline... Needs to run GNU Hurd for that.
- Zambyte 11mo agoIf we're going that route, it should really be Lisp :)
- ehnto 11mo agoI am beginning to wonder if the rumoured HLX is actuallya VR native experience, perhaps Alyx 2. All the leaks have pointed toward increased focus on systems like objects having physical properties that would really add to immersion in VR.
- robbiet480 11mo agoTrying to decide if Steam Frame is going to be better than Apple Vision Pro + ALVR + lighthouses... AVP has higher resolution and OLED displays with higher PPD but obviously weighs a lot more.
- ChicagoBoy11 11mo agoThere was a lot of discussion about some work they've done to minimize compression artifacts... that's the biggest drawback for me in terms of ALVR + AVP... I suppose time will tell.
- mobiledev2014 11mo agoI own the Index and Vision and haven't tried this yet. I was considering buying PSVR2 controllers since they're officially supported but maybe I shouldn't bother?
- circuit10 11mo agoOne of the most interesting parts of this to me that not many people are talking about is what their approach will be to making Steam games work on ARM… I assume they will have put a lot of work into an emulation layer (maybe an existing one like FEX) to make it usable similar to what they did with Proton? This could be really good for the Linux ARM ecosystem in general
- preisschild 11mo agoApparently they are heavily funding FEX-emu now and are using that
- rbits 11mo agoYes! Steam on ARM finally! I hope it works well
- arnaudsm 11mo agoThis is the first standalone headset with an open ecosystem. That's a big deal. Meta Quests & Apple Visions require developer verification to run your own software, and provide no root access, which slowed down innovation significantly.
- IshKebab 11mo agoNot to mention Meta abandoned the Quest 1 very quickly. I bought a game when it came out and never got around to playing it (had kids). I tried to play it recently and it no longer even works! £30 down the drain, thanks Zuck. I guess I can't complain too much given that I got it for free.
- throwaway89201 11mo agoI bought an Oculus Go last year for € 30. Its support has been dropped for quite some time, and you can only activate developer mode and sideloading through an old version of the Meta Horizons app [1]. But if you do that, there are 71 GiBs of games to explore on the Internet Archive [2]. Some need patching to remove an online check to a server that no longer exists, but that is easy enough to do with a (regrettably Windows) tool someone published. The Go is not the best headset of course, but the games are a different style because of the 3DoF tracking without camera's. Somewhat slower paced and sitting down. A style I personally like more. You can also unlock the device to get root on it [3], which is quite neat, although there doesn't seem to be any homebrew scene at all. Not even the most bare-bones launcher that doesn't require a Meta login. [1] That doesn't even seem intentional, but it does mean that once the old version of the app can't communicate with Meta servers anymore, any uninitialized Go turns into a brick. [2] https://archive.org/details/gear-vr-oculus-go https://archive.org/details/gear-vr-oculus-go [3] https://developers.meta.com/horizon/blog/unlocking-oculus-go/ https://developers.meta.com/horizon/blog/unlocking-oculus-go...
- wayeq 11mo ago> £30 down the drain, thanks Zuck. I'm sure he put it to good use. Like 500ms worth of upkeep for one of his yachts.
- 11mo ago
- jackhalford 11mo agoNice to finally have a hackable headset on the market. I’ve been using the dji goggles for fpv flying because of vendor lock in. I wonder I could use these with OpenIPC to fly fpv with a fully open video stack.
- robocat 11mo agoI'm looking forward to seeing what hacks get done to the devices and what software is dreamed up.
- Pet_Ant 11mo agoSaw that the Steam Frame was wireless and lost interest. Wireless is always an extra complication that never improves things. I've learned lots about framing to hardwire my home network. Sure, make it an option, but I won't pay for latency, battery life, battery weight, cost, or pairing issues of wireless solutions. Give me (replaceable, standard) cables anyday! That said, there is hope, because if there is a wireless version and it takes off, it can't be hard to make a wired version.
- p1necone 11mo agoI agree with you for most things, but a VR headset is definitely something where the pros outweigh the cons vis a vis avoiding wires for me.
- ZeWaka 11mo agoIt's also wired, and you could even take out the battery for the weight.
- wlesieutre 11mo agoIt doesn't improve quality and latency, but for VR it absolutely improves not dealing with a cable that you can't see and will tangle yourself up with if you turn either direction more than once Two notes on how Steam Frame is handling this - It's a standalone headset, less demanding games run directly on the Steam Frame and the wireless connection doesn't factor in to anything. - It makes two simultaneous wifi connections, one on 5 ghz for connecting to your wifi network / internet, and another on 6 ghz for connecting to your streaming PC. They include an official 6 ghz USB dongle for the PC so you don't have to deal with finding which 3rd party option will work reliably.
- jdprgm 11mo agoAnnoying not to include price or release date. Considering the quest 3 came out 2 entire years ago this feels too close in terms of hardware instead of feeling like a next generation headset. Responses do seem fairly positive though. I wonder if this had been released as the quest 4 though would you all be reacting as positively?
- RGBCube 11mo agoFinally, a modern VR headset that doesn't hate you.
- seabombs 11mo agoBrilliant, I'm anxiously awaiting Australian pricing details (and release dates...) but could definitely seeing myself getting one of these as my first VR device, and the controller looks great too. Being able to run games on device (and on ARM) is very cool, but I wonder if there is a cheaper/lighter/longer-battery-life version of this that is stream only? That's probably a better fit for me personally, I can't imagine not having a streaming device nearby when I would be using it. Also hate to be picky, but looks like the frame controllers pair directly to the headset so maybe can't be used on their own? Would be nice to use them standalone too.
- month13 11mo agoI really hope it's not going to take years to be sold in Australia, like the Steam Deck took.
- ehnto 11mo agoThe VR base stations and controllers were/are also hard to get.
- pcchristie 11mo agoI'm fairly sure/wishful thinking that the reason the last round of Valve hardware was very late/absent in Australia was because it was the time that the ACCC took Valve to court for its no refunds policy (and won). Now that Valve has rectified that and are in good standing in Australia, I'm hoping we see all this new hardware ASAP, alongside the rest of the world.
- makeitdouble 11mo agoThe dedicated communication dongle between the PC and the headset sounds like a real game changer. Right now getting fast enough and reliable wireless connection means either tweaking to death one's setup or spending car money on the entire setup. In particular normal people usually don't realize how crappy their wi-fi and assume it's all the same, which would end in blaming the poor perf on the headset.
- banana_giraffe 11mo agoReminds me of Apple's AWDL, a similar workaround for crappy networks when the devices need a high speed low latency network. I do wonder if the headset here will do similar channel hoping tricks to join both the dongle's network and the normal wifi network.
- makeitdouble 11mo agoAs I understand it it's two separate radio and stack to have continuous link to both.
- senectus1 11mo agoNot a single piece of footage with someone wearing glasses and the Steam Frame I guess we get screwed over again :-(
- ixwt 11mo agoI'm in the same boat. But the specs do mention "Eye Glasses Max Width 140mm"
- senectus1 11mo agooh i missed that. nice, I'm hopeful.
- vimredo 11mo agoThe LTT video on the Steam Frame mentions an optional spacer for glasses and that Valve is working on getting prescription lenses for the Steam Frame.
- WhyNotHugo 11mo agoI find it mind boggling that so many VR headsets cannot be used with glasses. Imagine an engineering team and developers working on the device. There must be a pretty large proportion of folks with glasses. Does the fact that they cannot use their own product not raise a flag in any way!? Anyway, for this particular model, others indicate that there may be an (optional?) spacer. “Optional” sounds kinda sucky. Someone buys the headset, has a friend over, and the friend can’t use it because support for glasses is optional? It’s not like glasses are a niche thing.
- sergiotapia 11mo agoIt will be strange to be playing on a big VR screen with your controller and it's colored and beautiful and everything around it is black and white. I wonder what their solution to that is. Virtual environments?
- sensanaty 11mo agoProbably a dumb question, I might've missed it in the description somewhere, but I assume the onboard PC is mostly to facilitate the streaming functionality, and it will stream from your main machine to the headset right? I'm very curious about the latency if that's the case. This might be the trigger for me to get into VR finally, but I'm worried that if there's noticeable lag in the stream that I'll basically cover myself in vomit from motion sickness lol
- boopmaster 11mo agoit supports standalone, may allow sideloading apks too, sounds more powerful than quest3 and also - no lag because the 6Ghz wifi doesn't go through the router, so long as you are close to the PCVR source - it's probably lag free. how did you do?
- ehnto 11mo agoThe latency introduced by the network link will be tiny compared to most games total frame latency. I would prefer a cable link just so I don't have to worry about charging it ever, but I think the wireless link will be fine from a lag perspective.
- anonzzzies 11mo agoI will buy. When is it out?
- skeaker 11mo agoIf it's anything like the Deck, they will eventually announce a more tangible release date (right now it's early 2026) and then announce a date for preorders to open. For the Deck unless you got into the preorder queue within ~1 minute you had to wait several months for it to be delivered to you.
- iamcreasy 11mo agoWill SteamFrame ARM support paired with Alyssa Rosenzweig's work - large amount of Steam games are very close to be able to run on mac hardware, right?
- famahar 11mo agoThe main thing I dislike about VR is how uncomfortable it is on my head and how hard it is to adjust that comfort. Too much friction to enjoy. If I can just easily slip these on that would be perfect. I also never got used to the feeling of being completely detached from my own world. I know that's the point of VR, for it to be completely immersive but it felt very jarring not knowing what was going on around me.
- abtinf 11mo agoIt is unfortunate that it doesn't have a strap that goes over the top of your head. It is extremely irritating that almost every headset does this, then charges extra for an actually usable strap that takes the pressure off of your face.
- tripdout 11mo ago> Steam Frame is a PC: ... Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a browser, do what you want: It's your PC. Always glad to see this.
- thefunnyman 11mo agoI'm surprised no one is talking about the fact that the headset is ARM and that valve has been heavily contributing to the translation layer FEX. I love my steam deck, but lately find myself reaching for emulation handhelds like the Retroid Pocket 5 more due to smaller size, especially when I'm leaving the house. There's already projects like GameNative that try to hack steam onto these devices, but if valve offers an official client on Android and other arm devices that would be incredible. Edit: Some interesting insights in the FEX FAQ about why it's not a great fit for Android right now [0]. Interested to see if this ARM version of steamos is installable on other devices though. RP5 can already run alternatives like Rocknix [0] https://wiki.fex-emu.com/index.php/FAQ https://wiki.fex-emu.com/index.php/FAQ
- serf 11mo agoI would've never bet on an Arch being the one that won the gaming market, but here we are. Wild.
- ehnto 11mo agoI am running Endeavour OS an Arch based distro, and it has been almost hassle free for games. Even less hassle than windows since I didn'teven have to download and install GPU drivers. Games with anti-cheat sometimes won't run, but that's not the fault of the OS. I don't play just niche games either, AAA titles work too. Currently playing Arc Raiders without issue and that only just came out. Installed it via steam, started playing. 10 years ago I would never have seen this coming.
- ivanb 11mo agoIt was so thoughtful of them to use IR tracking. Bed time gaming becomes much easier. I wonder if there was a choice between color passthrough and IR tracking and they chose the latter. Good choice!
- koolala 11mo agoNight vision computer goggles!
- bastawhiz 11mo agoIt really cannot be understated how big of a deal this is. The tech here is impressive AND they're not trying to lock you in. Practically speaking it's the only VR headset that holds real-world appeal for the vast majority of gamers, because it plays the games they're already playing.
- quux0r 11mo agoI’m holding out hope that this could be utilized in a similar fashion to the Apple Vision Pro’s Remote Desktop. I’d love the chance to work in a coffee shop or plane and not need to look down for prolonged periods of time. I’m hoping that that dongle is able to be used as video pass through.
- randyrand 11mo agoIt's probably too low res. AVP is 3.4K, this is 2.1K spread over a wider FOV.
- fra 11mo agoExtremely impressive that they were able to ship inside-out tracking, pancake lenses, and eye tracking + foveated rendering. Each of these is a serious engineering challenge. Very few organizations could pull this off.
- arduinomancer 11mo agoIt’s not foveated rendering, it’s foveated streaming
- martin82 11mo agoPeople warn to not hold smartphones near the head for too long due to too strong signal strenghts... Is it not a concern to strap such a powerful defive that receives super strong signals right onto the head for hours??
- Tadpole9181 11mo agoNo.
- vimredo 11mo agoCell phones and other mobile devices only transmit non-ionizing radiation (perfectly safe glorified invisible light), and studies have been done regarding this topic, returning inconclusive results. It's most likely perfectly safe.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- jayd16 11mo agoSo are we getting a Steam Phone? If not, why not?
- yugioh3 11mo agoi wonder if foveated streaming combined with foveated rendering could be used in the cloud gaming space? if latency is low enough, then you could get a super high fidelity experience on a thin client VR display with low cost rendering server side. Nvidia GeForce Now is already very impressive for streaming games at full field of view 4k. thin client VR gives you longer battery life, lighter devices, lower entry cost. and with a cloud gaming service rendering the game, an even lower barrier to entry
- karlkloss 11mo agoSteam does a lot of things right here, but also some things wrong, which is unfortunately a dealbreaker for me. I read the specs and got excited, until I read about the resolution. 2160x2160 is what I have now with the Pico 4, and while it's ok for entertainment, and acceptable for browsing and reading, it's far too low for professional work. Linux would have been great, but I can't justify spending money on a headset with exactly the same low resolution as my current one. Also, I've become used to color passthrough, and going back to monochrome would feel like a big regression.
- arduinomancer 11mo agoTo be fair its obviously not meant for professional work Valve is a game company
- bottlepalm 11mo agoI don't think any VR headset is good for professional work due to the focal plane mismatch which causes eye strain with long term use. Unless you like using a computer with a screen 4 feet away. For most people that's pretty uncomfortable for productivity work.
- koolala 11mo agoLinuxVR on this + the Steam Machine will be awesome.
- rudimentary_phy 11mo agoI've actually just recently started using my Quest 3 again through virtual desktop. I found the sharpening feature to actually make text look good enough that I'm able to work in it for hours uninterrupted, mostly writing papers and coding. I'm super excited for this launch and for all the crazy open source builds, mods, and fun that are going to come from an open VR system (or at least that's my hope).
- barrenko 11mo agoI am unable to parse announcements such as for this Valve product. Could I use this as a thing through which to spawn multiple monitors and code / read papers?
- rudimentary_phy 11mo agoDefinitely. There will be apps that will allow this (Virtual Desktop Classic is on steam already), and I foresee some neat things coming from its more open environment. On the other hand, it will be highly subjective. I have found that the sharpening algorithms they have put into apps like Virtual Desktop to be sufficient for me to read text with, but it will probably bother some people. The Quest 3 and Valve’s will have very similar resolutions. And although it looks like this Valve product will actually be quite light, the weight could be another factor in its use over many hours. For some people, XR glasses with OLED screens might provide a better experience as well if you are looking solely for monitor or tv support. I kind of like going to an entirely new environment to work in for a while, so I appreciate the VR aspect, but if you are looking only for screen support, XR glasses may be the better choice (there are quite a few models, though, and I unfortunately don’t know the market well enough to make suggestions on that).
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- coopykins 11mo agoIt's the first VR device I consider buying.
- ranguna 11mo agoThis feels like a really great headset. It was going to be an instant buy for me until I realised it has LCDs instead of OLEDs. I'll wait for reviews. I don't really want to buy these if they release another OLED version down the line. Also, if this is arm and it has steam in it, that means we can finally run steam on arm, which means we can finally install steam "natively" on android Linux, specially now that we have the terminal app on android 16. Can't wait for graphical acceleration to be fully merged to the terminal app and we have Linux running on android with near native performance and steam.
- bottlepalm 11mo agoOLEDs have problems in VR with glare, persistence, refresh rate, power usage, heat, etc.. the LCDs in the Frame can hit 144 hertz - that's what you really want for VR gaming.
- LtdJorge 11mo agoCan the miniature OLEDs not go to 144Hz yet? Or is it because of power/heat density?
- numpad0 11mo agoApparently there's something to do with phosphor afterglow in OLEDs, the persistence after a pixel was turned off? No one seem to talk about it in the public but it seems to be a known issue among VR device designers.
- kerenbs 11mo ago[dead]
- heisnotanalien 11mo agoYesss. I will never buy anything Meta so happy to see this.
- nottorp 11mo agoStupid links insist on opening in the steam app on mobile. I do have it installed but my login expired years ago and I’m not renewing it. Guess I won’t find out what this is about any time soon…
- hn111 11mo agoOpening it in private tabs should help, at least on iOS.
- rifty 11mo agoIt felt like the headset hardware had reached a sweet spot for the moment, but with this announcement the software situation is now also going to be reaching a similar place. Now we have a continuity of freedom with a PC OS on the headset away from home as well as the full mobility of a untethered headset display with the full power of a stationary PC at home. Can't wait to see what dev's do with this.
- KolibriFly 11mo agoCool to see Valve committing to the ecosystem like this
- poulpy123 11mo agoThe IPD range is a bit on the lower side, which is unfortunate knowing it can make a VR headset unusable and that it is just a matter of design and not technology
- neves 11mo agoI use glasses. Can I use it?
- isoprophlex 11mo agoThis will probably make me vomit as hard as any other vr headset i tried, right?
- divan 11mo agoAre there any real-world tests or reviews of foveated streaming in actual gameplay? I’m wondering how it holds up in fast shooters where you depend on tiny cues in your peripheral vision. Wouldn’t the lower-resolution periphery make it harder to notice subtle movement?
- _79px 11mo agoThere are some reviews like LTT that talk about it's impact. I'm not sure about the subtle movement though. I think they're lowering the quality to what your peripheral vision is already, so I don't think it would effect anything negatively. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU3ru09HTng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU3ru09HTng
- InterlooperX 11mo agoI am wondering about this "dedicated 6 GHz dongle". So, I am gathering that this thing, just like the quest will be able to run things locally but is also supposed to be able to stream pcvr stuff from a connected pc where steam is running. I would have thought they give you a wired connection for that. you know, like the quest. but with the option to do it wireless. My question would be: given that the wireless solution in the quest apparently is a peer-to-peer pairing of the headset and the pc through the local networks wireless router, just much of a difference will this dedicated 6GHz dongle make? Would I be kidding myself if I assumed using this dongle would give me the analog experience of when I am using a dedicated dongle to connect my xboy controller to my pc? I mean, I plug it in, the dongle automagically comes pre-paired with the headset, I start steam on pc, hit play on a VR title and I get to play right away? Because that is my current experience with my controller that is connected via a dedicated wireless dongle. I hated the bluetooth connection. But using this dongle is really making a difference here. So, I wonder just how "painless" this will all be with the new headset. I held out on buying a quest because the wireless connection through my router would not be possible simply because I cant change my router at the moment and while it is fine for everything i use it for, it would not be enough to stream the quest data. Therefore I would have always wanted a "wired" connection, simply because my router wouldnt be able to do it. Therefore I was a bit miffed when I learned that this new headset would not come with a wired option. But if this dongle can do everything a wired connection can do without having to go through my router then this would be absolutely game changing for me.
- nektro 11mo agoanother slam dunk from Valve
- antonyh 11mo agoI have a Quest 2 that I don't care for, so it's caught me somewhat offguard how much I want this. The whole set please. I thought I'd just want the controller, but everything here looks exciting to me.
- storus 11mo agoOK, so it's Valve's version of HP Reverb G2 just released 5 years later. It doesn't even match the best Pimax/HTC, not to mention Apple's one.
- VikingCoder 11mo agoYouTube just happened to show me Gamers Nexus Lossless Scaling & Lossless Frame Generation video just now. [1] Which, I can't help but wonder. If this ran on the Frame... To aid in streaming from your desktop... In conjunction with Foveated Streaming... What's even more bonkers to me is the idea that this could really be baked in to the streaming, if you think about it. Server generates 100 beautiful frames in one second. The streaming hardware reminds the server that with the current network conditions, that it can only handle X bits per second. The Frame says, "Hey, here's where the eyes were looking, here's where they are looking, here's where they're projected to look." The Server knows how many actual frames it can send in a second. But the Server can run the same Lossless Scaling & Lossless Frame Generation that the client will run. The Server can then compare the predicted frames against the actual frames, and it can send the delta needed to correct the predictions. Especially in areas close to where the eyes are looking. The Client consumes the stream, predicts frames, applies the delta, and ends up with better framerate and quality... Can you do this all low latency, too? I suspect so. Add it all up, and this is pretty bonkers. I mean, it's kind of obvious that that's how streaming "should work," but I think I hadn't really put it all together yet in my mind. My mental model was too "off the shelf." It didn't include how much effort the client could do... And that the server could then also do, to help the client... It's really a beautiful pairing, when you think about it. What's really bonkers is that Steam could learn what final images are supposed to look like, for a given game, and train AI specifically for that game. Update the server and the client, and bam, everyone gets better quality. With zero developer interaction. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w_Hqngky0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w_Hqngky0s
- WithinReason 11mo agoThis would solve the problem of bandwidth which is not a problem (250MB/s is enough, Valve says)
- VikingCoder 11mo agoThis immediately made me wonder about a Steam Machine driving multiple Steam Frames for multiplayer games. That could be super easy for a developer to make, all in one process, with no networking requirement for the game logic...
- VikingCoder 11mo agoNext question in my head... Can we use one Steam Machine to drive, say, 4 to 16 Steam Frames. Multiplayer gameplay, like Goldeneye. With the convenience that all of the state is in memory in one process, so there's no networking layer in the gameplay logic itself. And you can't peak at the other players' screens.
- Scene_Cast2 11mo agoGPU horsepower isn't there for that.
- VikingCoder 11mo agoIt depends entirely on the game. For a AAA modern game, you're right - of course not. But remember, they're saying this thing is six times as powerful as the Steam Deck. That sounds like it might be able to handle 4 players running at about as good as on the Steam Deck. And that's ignoring the whole idea of the server running on the Steam Machine, and custom clients running on everyone's Steam Frames. That would give you even more compute power. I like the idea that the Steam Frame, in this "Living Room" scenario, doesn't even need to do network prediction. It just blasts game state to each of the clients. So what, there's multi-player games on the same TV, like Goldeneye 64. There's LAN games. And now there's maybe a new category... Living Room, Multi-Screen games?
- dcchambers 11mo agoThis is so much more interesting than the Apple Vision Pro/Quest for one main reason: An open builder-friendly platform.
- yuters 11mo agoWow this is perfect timing! I've dusted out my old Valve Index tuesday so my kids could try The Lab. It now shows a green pixels line on the right. Also the headset is too heavy for them and not easy to adjust, and I had to hold the cable so they don't trip over it. This new headset will be perfect for them.
- FloatArtifact 11mo agoI wonder what the overhead is to stream from the headset or host PC to another monitor. VR is great but comes with a barrier of overcoming social isolation. Having the VR session on a screen would be a way to keep it social. Especially multiple VR slit screen. We want to engage the rest of people in the room beyond the players. Watching various interviews, clearly it can be on another monitor.
- nogbit 11mo agoThese new steam sites are non functional in Firefox iPhone.
- ece 11mo agoI could see a Steam Frame OLED coming just like the Steam Deck OLED, but I wonder how long it will take. Like others here, this will be an instant buy for me and my first VR device, apart from Cardboard maybe. Looking forward to gaming on it.