32 ms·

I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

• dreamcompiler 1y ago
  CHAdeMO is Betamax all over again. It's the best standard because it supports bidirectional power flow, which theoretically allows EVs to support the grid during demand spikes. But if course CHAdeMO is dying. NACS is second best because it's less bulky than CCS, and NACS is winning in the US so the situation is less bad than it might have been.
  • qwerpy 1y ago
    My electric truck supports bidirectional power flow through NACS. Currently only usable with Tesla-specific vehicle and hardware, but the connector itself does support it. It was very useful during a few multi-day power outages.
• ForOldHack 1y ago
  Good job. I have driven ( for at least 2 trips ) a TeslaS a TeslaX, a Leaf, and EV-1... The Leaf was the easiest to use the regenerative breaking, and the very most efficient at it. Using the 80Mile model, and hand waxing the outside ( a favorite of the 100Mpg Prius group ) I was able to go 69.5 Miles, with 22% remaining. 28% more efficient than rated. This was a mostly highway traveled trip, with a bunch of city errand running at the end. Both I and the owner were very impressed. They ordered the 100mile battery pack, which was very expensive, but it has been great in the long run. I think it was like 81% cheaper than a gasoline trip at the time not including long term wear and tear. ( Ware and Tare?$#). I think the Nissan Leaf is the very best of the bunch.
• KebabKanaken 1y ago
  [flagged]
  • recursive 1y ago
    Were they ever the rage? Seems to me they started off with a small fringe of hardcore fans, and they're gradually gaining adoption. That means they're picking up users that aren't enthusiasts and just want to get on with it. It seems like you have some kind of issue, but I'm not sure what it is.
• syassami 1y ago
  They're good for cheap ev conversions - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_xLe306M8&t=1174s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_xLe306M8&t=1174s fun watch.
• declan_roberts 1y ago
  I drove a 2015 Nissan Leaf for almost 10 years before upgrading this year to a Model Y. When it comes to charging network Tesla is SO MUCH BETTER. It's hard to describe how much of a wild west other charging networks are. You have to download this app or that app, add a credit card here, add one there. De-rated charging handles absolutely everywhere.
  • NewJazz 1y ago
    Can't believe it took them 10 years to add CCS1.
    • runjake 1y ago
      CCS1 for others who are curious: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System
    • tonymet 1y ago
      aren't they all dumping it for NACS in North America?
      • declan_roberts 1y ago
        NACS is officially the North American charging standard. Elon projected the name into reality.
    • tonymet 1y ago
      Tesla and Apple understand that the charger elegance and design is more important than the strict engineering requirements. NACS is theoretically a worse charger, but it's more approachable to consumers. CCS1 is clumsy , heavy and makes the car look like it's attached to an umbilical cord. That's why they had to dump it.
      • declan_roberts 1y ago
        This is exactly right. It's just too big and clumsy. It's almost always the Pareto principle option that wins if it's easier to use. Because "good enough" is all that matters to most consumers.
• tinyhouse 1y ago
  I was thinking about buying the leaf but I have a 2012 Honda Fit and my monthly gas expense is so cheap that I didn't bother. I use the car often but for mainly short drives within the city.
• jampa 1y ago
  > And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. I rented a PHEV in Spain, and this was the biggest issue. Every charger has an app. They want all your information, even your home address, before charging. Most of them error out after you try to make it work in the 44 °C / 110 °F Spanish sun. After trying five charging apps and only succeeding in one, I gave up charging completely because of the horrible experience. I wonder why EVs don't save credit information in the vehicle and negotiate payment with them via some sort of "Cable API" or something. Or even you know, use tap to pay PoS like every normal transaction does.
  • duskwuff 1y ago
    "Plug and charge" is a thing, and is supported by some vehicles and charging stations. Unfortunately, it's not universal (yet), but the standards are there.
  • cheema33 1y ago
    This is my experience as well with regular EV chargers. Tesla chargers on the other hand work seamlessly and reliably. You walk up, you plug it in and it works. No fuss.
  • rsynnott 1y ago
    The EU has finally fixed this, though only mandatory for chargers installed _after_ the regulation: https://electrek.co/2023/07/11/europe-passes-two-big-laws-to-make-ev-charging-a-whole-lot-better/ https://electrek.co/2023/07/11/europe-passes-two-big-laws-to...
  • vachina 1y ago
    When I did a roadtrip with a rented PHEV I just charged every night with the power plug. It’s kinda pointless since PHEV battery range is like what, 50km.
• pryelluw 1y ago
  @Jeff: Are you worried or thought about resale value? Do you plan to keep it for long?
  • geerlingguy 1y ago
    Like my other cars, I plan on driving it into the ground :) And the range is overkill for me, really. I could live with 100 miles or so and not worry, so even if the battery wears down to 50% SoH (right now it's 93% after 36k miles), I'll still be happy.
    • globular-toast 1y ago
      What's your strategy for scrapping a car? I find people grossly underestimate the cost of car ownership mostly due to cost of maintenance and repairs at the end of life. It's so easy to keep bleeding parts and labour for longer than is economical.
      • pornel 1y ago
        EV motors typically outlive the rest of the car. Leaf is old enough that there's a whole cottage industry of battery repairs, replacements, and repurposing them for solar energy storage.
        • globular-toast 1y ago
          I assume you mean the batteries? What do people use the motors for?
          • pornel 1y ago
            I've meant you don't need to worry about motors failing in old EVs, unlike engines that are the primarily concern in old ICE cars. Apart from battery degradation, the other thing that may be the final nail in the coffin for an old EV (other than Leaf) is failure of HVAC. Temperature management is important for keeping batteries healthy when fast charging, and to prevent motors from overheating when you send them a quarter of a megawatt of power. And the rest of the problems is the same like in any other car of the same era.
• nkingsy 1y ago
  I briefly owned a gen 1 leaf. It went from 70 miles of “range” (more like 25) at 100% to 50 in a couple of years of very light driving. Poor guy who bought it from me had all kinds of trouble trying to get it home.
  • asdff 1y ago
    Ebike would be nicer at that point. Battery takes far less time to charge over 110v. You can simply hot swap a charged battery. No insurance or registration requirements. Far lower base cost. Far lower maintenance costs. About the same range. Probably similar cargo volume compared to a cargo ebike. Just need a rain coat and rain pants and you are probably set for most conditions. Call an uber when you actually need to transport 4 people and you'd come out well ahead. The big secret with bike commuting is that in urban setting on surface streets, its actually the fastest way to get around short of a motorcycle or helicopter. Yes, much faster than cars, thanks to lane splitting.
    • BizarroLand 1y ago
      I have an ebike, it's very nice, and I live ~9 miles from my job, so it's well within range. But I would not want to be caught in the ever changing weather here on an ebike. Maybe if it had a shell to protect the rider, but then we're getting into it being too pricey for an ebike range.
      • asdff 1y ago
        Rain pants and rain coat work great for keeping you dry
• jama211 1y ago
  2023 is new wow
• chelmzy 1y ago
  Crazy he wouldn't go for a Bolt. I just bought a 2019 Chevy Bolt w/ 11k miles for $14.5k (so a bit over 10k after federal rebate). It has a brand new battery because all the Bolts were recalled for battery issues. Has around 250m range. Feel like I won the lottery. Still plenty of them available https://www.donohooauto.com/searchused.aspx?Make=Chevrolet&ModelAndTrim=Bolt%20EV https://www.donohooauto.com/searchused.aspx?Make=Chevrolet&M...
  • ambicapter 1y ago
    There still are federal rebates?
    • chelmzy 1y ago
      Until September 30th so better hurry.
      • rogerrogerr 1y ago
        Note that many HN residents probably have too much MAGI - do your diligence on that tax credit before assuming you qualify.
        • cosmic_cheese 1y ago
          The way dealerships roll rebates into their advertised prices is incredibly annoying if you don’t qualify. I kind of wonder if prices aren’t being inflated somewhat by dealers being able to put numbers that are ~$10k lower than reality out there.
          • rogerrogerr 1y ago
            I expect to see a severe price drop in both the used and new markets when these credits evaporate. (Which is what you’d expect - of course free government money will raise prices above where they would be.)
          • 1y ago
• jhallenworld 1y ago
  So here's the thing that's coming for EVs, and I finally started to see it for the Leaf: driveway DIY battery replacement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIQ-RROpls0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIQ-RROpls0 Yes, this involves lying on your back with a 700 lb battery held up by jacks just inches above your head. But heck, services are expensive these days so it's going to happen.
  • foobarian 1y ago
    This makes me wonder, if you can replace one, can't you add one on top of the old one? Or two or three? There goes the range anxiety
    • rootusrootus 1y ago
      Not yet, but I kinda wonder if it will happen. At least in certain situations. For example, the F150 Lightning -- body-on-frame truck where the battery sits between the rails rather than being tightly integrated with a custom unibody design. As batteries improve, I could see people retrofitting newer batteries with more capacity.
• m463 1y ago
  that's not cheap. Cheap is the older leafs, which go for $3k. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_make_model=nissan%20leaf&sort=priceasc https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_make_model=niss... I bought a 2012 for $7500 in 2016 and drove it for several years. 1. chargers suck. there was evgo, blink, chargepoint. Most locations had 1 or most 2 DC fast chargers, but frequently they didn't work or were busy. Not reliable. 2. range was less that expected, even if you update expectations. It takes engineering to use the range you have, especially taking #1 into account. You don't want to get to a fast charger at 1% then find it doesn't work. 3. the battery health wasn't great, but because the battery capacity/range was less, the number of battery cycles was significantly more. I charged to a higher %, discharged low each day, and cycled daily. 4. the leaf was a perfect "around town" car. Not for trips. Tesla has basically solved all of this and their cars are usable like a regular car* * don't be pedantic, in 99% of situations/locations
  • thorncorona 1y ago
    +1 i was thinking of getting a bolt but it’s not a viable option if you like doing road trips. either you get 2 cars or a fast charging ev. i chose the latter
  • nartho 1y ago
    A while ago I bought an older leaf because I had an expensive commute. Battery was ok when I bought it but it degraded very quickly. Doing my commute in winter with the heater and radio off going 10 under hoping to make it to my job where I could charge it was not fun. I now own a corolla hybrid and I enjoy cheap commutes without the fear of running out of juice
  • SlowTao 1y ago
    Here in southern Australia we would endlessly see this one guy with his broken down leaf on the side of the road. If I recall it was one of the very first generation models and they did not handle our summers well at all. To be fair to Nissan a lot of their issues did get resolved in come generations but it was funny to see that, yeah, they didn't do too great on those first few rounds. As to your Tesla *. I do endless tire of folks who are like "But what if you want to circle the planet!?! Check mate EV dorks!". For 99% of the time they are absolutely fine. A friend of mine had one as a work car and drove the 940km (580 miles)from Melbourne to Sydney with only a single charge up of $20 half way through, got lunch at the same time. I mean yes if you really stretch it, you could do it on a single tank of fuel on a combustion engine but it would be a tight run. Also to the recharge time, that drive takes about 9 hours if you do not stop. I have never done it in less than 12 hours because you end up having a lot of down time on trips like that. There is plenty of time to charge if needed. Like you say, for the most part these are solved issues.
• doawoo 1y ago
  I ended up grabbing an Ioniq fully electric 2019 and i absolutely love it. Got it for a decent used cost, interior wise it was like new, no huge touch screen, but a decent one for CarPlay and Android Auto, real knobs and buttons, and the online portion is entirely obsolete since it used 3G so it has no connection to the internet! It’s perfect for me
• tonymet 1y ago
  My neighbor has an Ioniq 5, styling-wise it's cooler than my Tesla. Reminds me of Corrado -- one of my favorite cars. But we have had night and day experiences with charging our EVs. The supercharger network seems effortless & flawless -- almost too good. No payments, planning. The stations are clean, quiet & secluded. Just follow the Nav and charge. The third-party network has been a disaster for my neighbor. He's had to back track many times, even on ~ 2 hr trips. The chargers are broken, causing him to double-back even more. On a recent trip the only working charger was next to a gas station and the fumes made his wife sick. He has 4+ apps to manage charging payments . How on earth do people tolerate other EVs?
  • cosmic_cheese 1y ago
    I love how the Ioniq 5 looks, but it’s too long. I wish they sold a Bolt-sized cousin in the US, that would be perfect.
    • tonymet 1y ago
      a true Corrado clone, below 3500 lbs , would be sick
  • mort96 1y ago
    People tolerate other EVs in two ways: 1. You charge at home and typically drive relatively short distances, meaning you almost never have to interact with a commercial charger; or 2. If you need to rely on commercial chargers, you live in a part of the world where Tesla was never allowed to build a charging network monopoly (i.e anywhere outside the US), or in a part of the US where there's decent fast charging infrastructure It sounds like your neighbour is unfortunate to require relatively frequent charging at commercial charging stations, in a part of the world where Tesla was allowed to build out a charging network monopoly.
    • tonymet 1y ago
      He has home Level 2 (11kw) charging. But his EV is his primary road trip car. It's not a "part of the world" it's Portland Metro area where millions live.
• rsolva 1y ago
  Small, cheap electric cars are the best! Fun to drive, easy to maintain. I own an VW eUP 2015 model which costed me €4000 used. I do not know if they where for sale outside of Norway (I only see them here!), but it is the perfect car for 95% of our mobility needs. I drive it to work every day (where I can charge it for free). I drive it to Oslo and can park/charge almost anywhere around town for really cheap, about €3/h, which is nothing compared to regular parking, which is usually ~€16/h. I drive it to the Netherlands, about ~950km in two days, without a hint of range anxiety, thanks to abetterrouteplanner.com. Sure, I'm averaging 85km/h, and have to take a ~10min stop every ~2 hours to charge, but that is a welcome pause to visit the toilet or grab a bite. I had to change a bearing that was getting noisy after 10 years of use, and it cost me €50 in parts and half an hour changing it. I was worried it was going to be a complicated affair, not having done it before, but it was as easy as changing a tire. Oh, and there is physical buttons for everything! There is a little display that controls the music and shows consumption stats, but it is entirely optional and can be removed completely. The battery has hardly degraded at all. I'm keeping this thing for as long as I possibly can, it is the perfect car!
  • boredpudding 1y ago
    What range are you getting in winter at 85km/h? Currently trying to get rid of our petrol car but knowing realistic range up front is rough. I'm fine with driving slower.
    • rsolva 1y ago
      It really depends on just how cold it is outside and how much (or little) heat you are comfortable with inside. For mild winter weather (+5 to -5°C) and 18°C in the cabin, the range drops to around 80km or so. On a sunny summer day, I can easily get about 130km on Norwegian country roads, probably more. When driving to the Netherlands in the months between March and October, the consumption has been around 8.3kW/100km. The car is light and has little tech that consumes power. Since the car has no heat pump, heating the cabin has a noticable impact on range during cold winter days. That said, it is a really good car to drive in the winter as the cabin gets warm in no-time and the windows in the front and back are heated and melts away thick ice in about a minute, even in really cold weahter! When doing normal commutes, the shorter range does not matter at all. But I would probably not drive to the Netherlands in -10°C during the winter!
• syntaxing 1y ago
  I want one just as a “house battery backup” and beater car. Something along the lines of 800W ecoflow inverter in the leaf to delta pro to house. But I don’t fully know how the air cooled aspect of the leaf would impact this idea.
• vondur 1y ago
  The Leaf's used to be pretty bad as far as electric cars went, with no active battery cooling or heating. I was pretty tempted to get a used Bolt EV. I've seen them for sub 20k with less than 30k miles on them. I've been driving around in my wife's older Subaru Crosstrek plug in hybrid, which works fine for the limited amount of driving I do to commute to work. We plan to give that car to my son once he gets his license.
• NegativeLatency 1y ago
  Not possible everywhere because of bad (car oriented) infrastructure, but an e-bike would be more optimal for this person's commute since they're "only driving a few miles a day". No insurance, fun, repair it yourself, etc
  • AtlasBarfed 1y ago
    I used to bike about 3 and 1/2 mi to work and back. This was right in the middle of a major city. It was so nice to just basically not have to deal with traffic. I was faster than cars at that point. I never got a fat tire enough to do the snow, so I would ride until I absolutely couldn't anymore. If it was 15° or Fahrenheit or less, I'd still ride. I would just bundle up like I was skiing. It was a pretty small office, so I could just roll my bike up to my cube and leave it in there. And when it was lunch I could go further faster. Modern e bikes are even better. Commute farther, carry more stuff, sweat less, hills/headwinds don't matter. There should be so much more bicycle commuting these days with e-bikes. Rain does suck though.
    • NegativeLatency 1y ago
      Yeah we get like 33 and rain in the Pacific Northwest for a solid chunk of the winter (only freezes sometimes). I find I end up riding with less electric assist during the winter so I generate my own heat.
  • uyzstvqs 1y ago
    > bad (car oriented) infrastructure It's not an either-or. You can have streets which are car-friendly, bike-friendly, and pedestrian-friendly at the same time. Just look at the Dutch, they've been doing it for years. That is until recently in some big cities, though, where some less knowledgeable politicians have also adopted this false populist either-car-or-bike concept. Though the traditional principle still applies to about 99% of the country's roadworks, and it works really well.
• mleonhard 1y ago
  According to IIHS insurance loss data, https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/auto-insurance/insurance-losses-by-make-and-model https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/auto-insurance/insurance... , here's the chance of being injured while riding in one of these cars (and filing an insurance claim) relative to the average US vehicle: - Nissan Leaf -15% (Select "Small" & "4-door Cars" on the page) - Chevy Bolt -34% - Subaru Crosstrek -28% ("Station wagons" & "Small") - Tesla Model 3 +26% ("Luxury cars" & "Midsize") So the choice of Nissan Leaf was OK from a safety perspective, but the Chevy Bolt is better. The Tesla is much worse.
• wuming2 1y ago
  Ceramic heater replacement anyone?
• maerF0x0 1y ago
  Even cheaper is a bicycle and use your body fat as a battery. That's what I've been doing for ~1 year and have lost over 14 lbs.
• spamjavalin 1y ago
  Bought a leaf for 13k five years ago. It’s saved us 10k in fuel over that time compared to petrol car. NO BRAINER
• js2 1y ago
  > With EVs there are tradeoffs. Even in my situation, only driving a car a few miles a day, I do take my car on one or two regional road trips every year. That's how we ended up with a Chevy Volt in 2017. 100K trouble-free miles later, we still have it and my wife still loves the car.
• mattlondon 1y ago
  I recently had a similar situation but the chademo charger was the deal breaker for me here in the UK. Yes they exist, but perhaps each station would have 1 chademo Vs 3 or 4 CCS2, while other more recent stations are only CCS2. And even if there is one there, the chademo would only be 45 or 50kw while the newer CCS2 ones are frequently 150+kw now. I think I only ever saw a 100kw chademo once (...or maybe I imagined that?!) Some lexus things used chademo too. Ended up getting a used VW id.3 which ticks a lot of the leaf's boxes, but has CCS2 and 100+kw dc charging
• casey2 1y ago
  Why not a bicycle? This seems overkill for "a few miles" which I take to mean 4 Even an ebike seems overkill for this
• globular-toast 1y ago
  > No gasoline-powered car (outside of supercars, maybe? Never drove one of those) could match the feel of pressing the throttle on an electric. Probably need to be careful with this because flooring it is addictive and you'll waste a lot of energy doing it. For me the feeling of an electric car gave me a strange feeling. I just felt like I was in an electric wheelchair. It really hammered home the ridiculousness of able-bodied people travelling around town in these huge electric wheelchairs. I don't hold much hope for the future but I'd love to be able to live in a town without these things around.
• rdudek 1y ago
  Last year, I got a found a great deal on a gently used Chevy Bolt EUV 2023 model with only about 8k miles on it for about $16k USD from Hertz. Granted, I had to fly out of state to pick it up, but it was a great experience all together. Learned quickly that this car is not a road tripping car as it took over an hour to charge to 80%. However, it is an amazing commuter car. Being able to charge it at home is fantastic. We already put 14k miles on it since we got it last year.
• misternintendo 1y ago
  Nice work! Cool to see the mix of personal story and practical EV tips, especially the GitHub angle.
• rurban 1y ago
  The cheapest EV would be a BYD Surf, but unfortunately you cannot find used cars of these yet in Europe. Too new. Eying those for a while
  • eloisant 1y ago
    That's not the cheapest, at least in France the cheapest new EV is the Dacia Spring. Of course if you look at the used market, older models like Renault Zoe can also be found for cheap... But considering EV technology have been evolving fast, I wouldn't buy a model older than 5 years old. I also wouldn't want anything that doesn't have a CCS2. All my small electronics are finally USB-C, I don't want to deal with obsolete plug types and adapters again.
• ctkhn 1y ago
  Leaf is great. Parents have the first model, and I love driving it whenever I'm visiting. Even after the battery degraded to under 90 miles, I was still able to make any drive I needed and recharge at home. Charging infrastructure around town has gotten a lot better too and I think when I have kids and need a car, the leaf is where I'll start my search. Also, it's really incredible that the dealer only had the leaf charged to 16% at the time of sale.
• btbuildem 1y ago
  > found myself with a very short commute, only driving a few miles a day > No gasoline-powered car [...] could match the feel of pressing the throttle on an electric. You know what is unmatched for joyful travel through space, with occasional bursts of adrenaline? Especially practical over short distances of a few miles? A bicycle! Especially when you already have one vehicle for family obligations. I snicker when I see those ads that promise you'll be just whooshing around through rolling hills in your newest automotive purchase. No, buddy, you'll be gnashing teeth in traffic most of the time.
  • jwilber 1y ago
    To be fair, if you are gnashing teeth in traffic, a bike is probably fairly dangerous outside a select few cities.
• ryao 1y ago
  I half expected to read that he devised a charging circuit for it controlled by a raspberry pi. I was somewhat disappointed when it turned out to be a normal blog post about buying a car.
• zzzeek 1y ago
  > CarlinKit 5.0 Wireless CarPlay/Android Auto adapter because the Leaf only supports wired CarPlay by default OMG this may have just saved my life that this is a thing though it looks like there are ones with much better reviews
• ec109685 1y ago
  Car dealerships are so useless. Imagine making a profit but offering this level of service: > Range Anxiety: Yes, it's overblown, but no, it's not non-existent. The day I bought my used EV, the dealership (which doesn't sell many EVs, even new) didn't have a 'Level 3' DC fast charger—and they had only charged it to about 16%. Letting it top off at L2 while I was dealing with finance, we got to 23%. I wasn't quite sure I'd make it home off the lot! Luckily I did, with 12 miles of range remaining.
  • angarg12 1y ago
    I also thought this was a pretty silly way of bringing up range anxiety. It's like a dealership selling you a gas car with an empty tank. Obviously the very first thing you would do is to refill it before driving home.
    • ec109685 1y ago
      They should fill the tank up with gasoline before putting it on the lot.
  • rootusrootus 1y ago
    This shouldn't really big a big deal in most metro areas, at least. The car dealer doesn't have a big tank of gasoline on site, either, they just drive the car to the station and fill it up while you're signing the papers. They could just drive to the local fast charger with the EV and do exactly the same thing.
    • ec109685 1y ago
      EVs lose energy just sitting there, so if you are going to sell EVs, it’s a cost of doing business Never heard of a Tesla going home with 12% battery.
      • rootusrootus 1y ago
        > EVs lose energy just sitting there Depends on the EV. My Tesla can chew on a lot of battery with Sentry mode. My Lightning, on the other hand, goes into deep sleep and loses essentially zero energy while parked. It can sit for months without a meaningful loss of charge.
• jiveturkey 1y ago
  > One pedal driving Seriously, why doesn't every EV have this mode? It makes driving one feel SO much better than any gas car, in terms of connection between driver and car movement. _ANY_ gas car? 100% of manual transmission cars (and now PDK/DSG/DCT) have this.
  • rootusrootus 1y ago
    Sort of. Regenerative braking can be far stronger than engine braking (with the possible exception of a diesel exhaust brake).
  • rockostrich 1y ago
    One pedal driving means you can come to a full stop and start accelerating again with a single pedal. You can certainly come to a full stop in a manual transmission car without touching the brake pedal or clutch but the engine will stall and you won't be able to accelerate again until you restart it and get the car back in gear. AFAIK no ICE cars have one pedal driving although I guess it's possible to implement sans the regenerative braking.
• rockostrich 1y ago
  > I hate every time I have to jack up my car and change the brakes, or take it in for oil/fluid changes This is is such a weird take. Most EVs weigh a lot more than a ICE car (although the Leaf is about the same as most normal sized sedans) so the brake pads wear more quickly. And anyone that takes the time to change their brakes is likely doing their own oil changes because it takes 15 minutes. The rest of the write-up is pretty spot on though. I leased a Hyundai Ioniq 6 2 years ago because I thought I would enjoy the driving experience. I was living in Philly and at the time it was my only car so I used it for trips to other parts of the city as well as any driving around the northeast to see friends and family. It's amazing for local driving, but doing any kind of drive that was more than 100 miles was a logistical pain. Even if you plan out the stops, you are still constantly worrying about whether or not there will be a long line to charge or the chargers themselves are broken even if they are reported as working in the apps. I've since moved to the suburbs and my partner uses the Ioniq to commute to work because it's perfect for that. For any longer trips, we opt for our ICE car. The only future foray I would consider with EVs is doing something like an EV conversion on my kei truck. Hopefully the Slate and Telo are the start of a wave of small EV trucks because I love the idea of a small truck that I can use to bring to Home Depot or to pick up larger FB Marketplace purchased.
  • dbtc 1y ago
    > so the brake pads wear more quickly I don't think so. With regen on a Bolt, I regularly drive dozens of miles (in traffic, and with full stops) without touching the break pedal.
• AfterHIA 1y ago
  My dream is a young person is that Nissan would release an affordable car that me and my homeless little brother could sleep in comfortably. We both are in college pursuing CS degrees and it's getting difficult.
• pojzon 1y ago
  I was super in favor of EVs in EU to the moment I visited Germany to notice that 3/4 of all cars were disel cars and getting pushed to green laws is a scam. I enjoy driving good cars that roar nice, so bought a new disel car that can drive 180/h without sweating much. I value my time more than anything else.
• diego_moita 1y ago
  I have a Kia Niro EV 2024. Before buying this car I didn't like driving. Now I like driving. Actually, I like it so much that I began doing something I never did before with any car I had: I read the whole owner's manual, I wash and clean the car every month and I pay attention to maintenance routine. That's how good it feels to drive electric.
• lubosm 1y ago
  When we moved, my wife was looking for an electric scooter to get to the train station for a commute to work. When we considered the weight and practicality in bad weather, we found new Dacia Spring 2023 model for 14,000 € in sales. It's a game changer since we charge it exclusively at home for about 1 € per 200 km range. There is virtually no maintenance. Having a VW Passat diesel for longer trips, we cannot be happier.
• tfrutuoso 1y ago
  (...)I'm trying to do some things to extend the battery's life as long as possible (...) Not driving like a maniac. Oops. My work daily is the same Leaf, my personal car is a '95 1.8 Turbo Miata. The Leaf suffers.
• sgt101 1y ago
  EV's look like EV's because they don't have the same constraints on space that ICEV's do. There is no engine in the front/back, no water pump, no oil pump, no water cooled radiator, no starter motor... so on so on. There's also a great big battery under the floor pan and no gas tank. They are also heavier, so need different set ups in order to handle decently. But, that's why they look so different.
  • HPsquared 1y ago
    They tend to handle better than ICE cars due to the low centre of mass (also the fact the big mass - the battery - is firmly bolted to the frame and not wobbling around on rubber mounts like an engine does). These are both big advantages in terms of dynamics. Couple that with the much faster powertrain response and many options to do torque vectoring to each wheel (individual motors on sports models) and it's an easy win for EVs. Then we get to the potential for fan-assisted downforce (e.g. McMurtry Spéirling) and it's even more blatant. ICEs are still better at endurance, though.
    • jonfw 1y ago
      People way overstate the "dynamics" advantages of EVs Yes EVs can keep their weight low, but it's a lot more weight to deal with. Yes EVs have excellent 0-60, but that's just because they have a great launch. Even doing a 5-60 pull removes the EV advantage. Starting from highway speeds? EVs start to look real slow. There are some good traits to EVs but, outside of launching hard in street car trim, performance is not one of them.
      • asdff 1y ago
        That 0-10mph response is way too twitchy in most EVs i've ridden. The old teslas were not like this. I'm not sure what package my friends model 3 is or if it comes down to his lead foot but I feel nauseous in that car. Its a combination of that instant torque and the suspension sort of feeling like one of those play horses on a spring you see in playgrounds.
        • 1y ago
• Xenoamorphous 1y ago
  * Limiting the number of QCs (Quick Charges / DC Fast Charge), as this heats up the uncooled Leaf battery, degrading it slightly each time, especially on hotter days * Keeping the charge between 50-80% when manageable * Charging up to 100% at least once a month, and letting it 'top off' to rebalance the pack for at least a few hours afterwards * Not driving like a maniac, despite having more torque in this car than I've ever had in any of my previous cars This kind of thing (minus the driving like a maniac bit) is what puts me off EVs. I guess it's unavoidable? My experience with laptop and phone batteries (holding much less charge pretty quickly) doesn't help. My phone (iPhone 12) says battery health is at 81% but it doesn't feel like it so I'm not sure I'd trust that Leaf saying it's got 93%.
  • FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    If you think this is what puts you off EVs, then you haven't read the horror stories from EV Clinic. TL;DR is many EVs and hybrids (especially European ones) have tonnes of design faults with e-motors and power-electronics that not only make them ticking time bombs(not in the explosive sense) out of warranty, but also have malicious DRM making third party parts impossible to source, and repairs difficult and eye watering expensive even if theoretically EVs should be more reliable on paper than ICE cars. Maybe the EU should focus more on EV/auto repairability regulations instead of smartphones and USB-C widgets. Luckily EV Clinic is working hard on breaking the DRM and reverse engineering parts to make and sell aftermarket ones, but this shouldn't be needed in the first place if the OEMs weren't so bad at design, greedy and hostile to consumers and aftermarket repairs. Seriously, we need regulations here ASAP. The free market doesn't work here for the consumer when OEMs all do the same anti consumer things.
    • mort96 1y ago
      The DRM thing unfortunately has nothing to do with EVs and everything to do with the computerization of cars. All cars have gotten more and more computerized and harder to repair with more DRM. EVs arguably fundamentally require heavy computerization more than ICE cars, but you're not gonna avoid it in a brand new diesel car either.
• behnamoh 1y ago
  You should never purchase EVs, only lease them. That's what I did. This saves you from the terrible depreciation they have. The only time it makes sense to buy an EV is if it's used. Edit: He bought used.
  • whimsicalism 1y ago
    but it was used?
  • andsoitis 1y ago
    > Mistake #1: He bought an EV. > You should never purchase EVs, only lease them. That's what I did. This saves you from the terrible depreciation they have. > The only time it makes sense to buy an EV is if it's used. Coming in too hot, friend! The headline, and opening line, is that it is a used EV.
    • rjtavares 1y ago
      Also, leasing does not prevent you from paying for the depreciation. It's just included in the fee.
      • rootusrootus 1y ago
        This is true, except that the manufacturers frequently choose to eat the loss by setting the residual unnaturally high. Even Tesla has been doing this lately.
      • andsoitis 1y ago
        With these things, it is helpful to place oneself on the other end of the transaction and think how you would price things. When you think about it critically, you notice that it can get pretty sophisticated.
  • kccqzy 1y ago
    He bought a used EV. The cost of depreciation is borne by the previous owner.
• donatj 1y ago
  Hmm, my friend had a 2015 Leaf, the interior seemed much nicer and more modern than this 2023 model. > There is no 'play/pause' button. Anywhere. At least not on the steering wheel or the display area. You have to go into the music section on the entertainment display, then press the software play/pause button. That's dumb. My new to me 2023 Honda Odyssey has the same stupid issue. It's my first vehicle with a touch screen, and I have a lot of trouble hitting the pause button especially when I'm trying to mute it because I need to pay extra attention to the road. WHY is there not just a Play/Pause button on the wheel!? Or at least a physical button on the dashboard.
  • dwood_dev 1y ago
    On my 2021 Nissan Kicks, the volume knob is the only play/pause button. It's not a mute button only, it does pause your media coming through CarPlay. Also, this is my last Nissan. I have been thoroughly disappointed with the super buggy and laggy head unit in this thing and it is apparently a common theme for Nissan. My 2016 Ford with CarPlay was rock solid.
  • InsideOutSanta 1y ago
    Fortunately, the play/pause button problem is easily solved. Aliexpress sells play/pause buttons. Search for something like "Auto Wireless Media Button". They connect via Bluetooth, you can stick them anywhere on your dashboard, and they use a button cell that lasts about a year. There are also ring-shaped ones you can attach to the steering wheel.
  • marcusb 1y ago
    Your friend probably had an SL-trimmed Leaf. The car in the video is an SV, which has cloth seats, etc. Interestingly, it looks like Nissan no longer offers the nicer trim levels for the Leaf, only S and SV PLus (at least as of 2025.)
  • wara23arish 1y ago
    i think lowering the volume down to zero now constitutes as play/pause i hate it too
• zoobab 1y ago
  Not the cheapest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV "In 2020, the Mini EV had a price starting at US$4,162, and topped out at US$5,607 for a fully loaded model, making it China's cheapest electric car."
  • lan321 1y ago
    He's not in China though.
    • ForOldHack 1y ago
      Oh thank God. The cheapest EV in China is little more than a flashlight with a wind up propeller, (joking/not joking) but not as safe. No one it their right mind could compare it to a leaf to a tesla.
• kccqzy 1y ago
  > they shouldn't do 16 on a 15A circuit but it seems like some do There are 20A 120V circuits too! Called NEMA 5-20, one of its prongs is rotated. You plug that into a receptacle where one of the slots is T-shaped instead of straight. And it's standard practice for EVs to draw 80% of the maximum current, so 16A it is. I see this plug in larger machines in the office, like a large photocopier or a large vacuum.
  • dreamcompiler 1y ago
    I wish I could buy an electric kettle in the US that took advantage of the 20A outlets I have all over my house. Sigh.
    • kccqzy 1y ago
      You'd be better off buying a British kettle and using that on a 6-15 socket, if your goal is to boil water quicker.
      • dreamcompiler 1y ago
        I'd do that if I had two convenient hots for 240v going into my kitchen, but I don't. What I do have is a 20A 120v circuit.
    • fragmede 1y ago
      Get a Japanese water boiler. They keep the water at boiling in a reservoir, so it's already hot when you want it, no waiting.
      • seanmcdirmid 1y ago
        Chinese offer this also. My wife just got one a few months ago, I think these are new things. 220V has a real advantage in boiling water fast in traditional kettles though (I used to live in china and they were twice as fast as the ones in America). It is almost worth getting a 220V outlet in a kitchen just to support fast water kettles.
• jagermo 1y ago
  Huh, i see a bunch of used Renault Zoes for about 5k or less in my area. I wonder if they hold up as well.
  • wazoox 1y ago
    It depends. Zoés come in many flavours, with different sizes of battery (52kWh is the best, the same size as current Renault models R4 and R5), rented or bought (don't buy a Zoé with a rental battery!!!), and the CCS2 port is in option (no CCS-2 effectively means no day trip longer than full range, unless you have the 22kW AC option, but still... you'll need to find a 22 kW charger en route, not that easy). Battery management on Zoés is fine ; it doesn't have the overheating problem that plagues the Leaf and the VW e-Up in particular; it doesn't have the "very slow charge when cold" problem of many cheap EVs with LiFePO4 batteries, though it charges up quite slowly (10-80% in 50 minutes). Someone I know recently bought a 135HP 52kWh Zoé without CCS-2 and 22kW AC charge for 7500€. That's a real bargain, it'sequivalent for all practical purposes (but long travel) to a brand new 30000€ R5 :)
  • KaiserPro 1y ago
    Zoes are fine, so long as they have fast charge and are the last generation (52kwhr) The software is pretty shit. Lagging and annoying. But apple/android play stops that. As a car its smooth, quiet, and fast if you need to be. The only annoyance driving wise is that it doesn't have adaptive cruise control, and the reverse/drive/neutral switch always returns to the middle, so you can't tell what mode its set to without looking at it
  • yourusername 1y ago
    A lot of Zoes i see for sale are with a rental or lease battery. So be sure to check if that 5k includes a battery or not.
• jillesvangurp 1y ago
  Electric Vehicle Man on Youtube did a review of a 2000 pound second hand Renault Zoe that he picked up a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvwtxGeVpQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvwtxGeVpQ The second hand market for EVs is getting pretty interesting. There are lots of EV owners that are replacing their EVs every few years and because of all the growth over the last 10 years, there are now quite a few fairly nice EVs on the second hand market. Many are typically still under drive train warranty. For example, the model 3 has only been on the market for about eight years and it came with eight years of warranty on the drive train. So, most of the second hand ones would still be under warranty. And most of the EV market only started growing after that. So this is true for many second hand EVs. And car batteries don't seem to spontaneously stop working right after the warranty expires either. So the risk is fairly low. They'll eventually degrade. But if you can pick up a car for a few thousand and then drive it for another 5-10 years, who cares? The fuel savings alone pay for the car after just a few years. Add the savings on maintenance and you are basically in the plus.
  • ACCount37 1y ago
    Always check if that suspiciously cheap second hand EV you're buying had active battery cooling. A lot of the crap like the early Nissan Leafs didn't. And between that and the first gen EV battery pack design being shit in general, the battery pack just cooks itself. Its capacity falls off a cliff over time. This is where a lot of those early concerns about EV battery packs being hideously expensive consumables was coming from. If the battery pack is actively cooled, then, as a rule, it ages gracefully. If not? Oh boy.
    • t_tsonev 1y ago
      This is not a general rule and many non-cooled and air-cooled batteries can hold up pretty well. The battery cooling becomes a limiting factor for DC charging, especially if multiple charging sessions are required per trip. The Leaf limited battery life is mainly to its battery chemistry (LMO), although it arguably doesn't go to great lengths to ensure thermal stability of the pack.
• Bairfhionn 1y ago
  My Problem was always the Range Anxiety. Until I got an EV and realized it's not really an issue. There is always an App for that (and even on my car the software gets improved in that regard). Infrastructure is getting better, even companies starting to see it as a benefit to have cheap/free chargers at their offices to get people back. I see more and more electric trucks on the roads. It feels good.
  • maerF0x0 1y ago
    I've realized this for myself, based on me getting ~350miles from a ICE per tank, and only filling about once ever 3-4 weeks. It's clear that for like 99.99% of my driving miles are easily in EV Range, or even plugin hybrids. Which is why my next car probably will be the later. However at only driving 350 miles per month, plus the occasional road trip, I estimate my current car will last 10 more years or more.
  • Fourier864 1y ago
    When I bought my Leaf last year, I actually didn't have range anxiety because I assumed the infrastructure was better than it actually was. But I'm shocked that at most places I drive to don't even have a charging station, and if they do it's like 2 spots that are both full. And I definitely didn't factor in skiing, my favorite mountain has 4 charging stations in one of the hotel's parking lots.
  • PaulKeeble 1y ago
    I think until you have one you don't realise quite what having a range of 200+ miles means in practice. You don't actually drive for 500 miles without a break, that is 8-10 hours of constant motorway speed driving and its not safe to drive that long. So when you take 30 - 60 minutes for lunch on a long drive like that and charge the vehicle you are going another 200 miles before again really taking a break. As it stands the breaks will have to be a bit longer than you might like and it could add 30 minutes to your journey but that is about it for most people. The other part that not a lot of people realise is if your journey is 300 miles and your car does 200 you don't charge another 200 miles into the battery, you charge 100 and then charge at the destination instead. With ICE vehicles if your going to get fuel typically you fuel it to the top but you don't do that with battery cars you want to charge them as little as possible while mid travelling and charge them while they are sat still at home or destination. Its charging at home that really changes the experience too. The weekly trip to the fuel station disappears, depending on how often you exceed the range of the car you only really get exposed to the charging network and times when doing those journeys, you spend a lot less of your life in fuel stations!
• masklinn 1y ago
  > Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze. Afaik in Europe, CCS2 is the standard (and mandatory these days), when I rented an EV a few weeks back there was no location which didn’t have it. And all the spots I tried charging at except Tesla accepted card payment (though there were a pair of times it was a struggle getting a card to work). Apps / memberships will get you cheaper prices but that’s about all I saw (and I didn’t bother with any of it). TBH the only things that annoyed me were implementation issues of the car (a polestar 4) as well as how overly wide it is. And that the rental company (AVIS) does not provide an AC adapter, so I was not able to charge at any wallplug even though I had the opportunity to charge the car at least twice over in all (I will likely purchase one if that remains their policy and I rent more EVs). All this is modulo it being summer and a pretty long range model so range anxiety was present but reasonably limited.
  • goldchainposse 1y ago
    I understand how the US and EU have different electrical outlets, voltages and frequencies. The systems developed independently, standardized on compatible versions locally, and standardizing globally would be very expensive and almost impossible to do safely. I don't understand how North America and Europe settled on different EV charging plugs.
    • herbst 1y ago
      I don't know how it is in the US but there is no one standard charging port here in Europe.
      • ddalex 1y ago
        CCS2 is mandatory in europe
        • 1y ago
• mschuster91 1y ago
  > And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze. The "how to juice your car" question is pretty much solved on the electrical and communications side... but the "how do you pay for the juice" question is indeed absurd. I understand that providers of high capacity charging stations wish to charge a bit extra because a single 200 kW+ DC charger quickly reaches 40k € in pure hardware cost, in addition to the installation cost and the regular swapping of cables due to thieves. But why the EU and the US governments haven't stepped in yet and mandated either a "roaming" standard (where my primary billing contact would be a regular electric utility with a set base price per kWh and optional surcharges for high-capacity chargers or stations in high demand) or acceptance of all common credit and debit cards is way beyond me. Instead, it's not just multiple vendors, apps and payment methods - it's also a (sometimes wild) difference in price depending on how you pay, at the same station. In contrast, at each gas station there is a sign that's visible from afar stating the exact price for your fuel, with the only thing one might hope for is a 1 cent discount for high volume diesel fuel pumps (aka, your truck's hole is big enough to fit a truck diesel nozzle) and a further 1 cent discount from some sort of loyalty reward scheme.
  • padjo 1y ago
    Fixing the payments thing has been addressed by the EU as far as I know: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_1867 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_...
    • T-1000 1y ago
      I was too optimistic about card payments when I went on vacation with my electric car in EU this summer. In some countries it worked perfectly but in other countries I had to scan a QR code, which usually ended up in an "sorry, there was an error" page. When I eventually started using a charging network the rest of the vacation was great.
    • mschuster91 1y ago
      Unfortunately, only partially [1]: - card acceptance is only required for 50 kW+ chargers. All the relatively low power chargers at supermarkets, shopping malls and other public venues? They can get by with offering QR codes that are all too often abused for phishing campaigns [2][3] and still have the issue with requiring some sort of app. - the "card acceptance" may also be fulfilled by PSD2 compliant mobile banking apps, so if you got a rooted phone (where Google Pay is a cat-and-mouse game), a phone whose vendor is under sanctions and thus doesn't get the Google ecosystem or don't want to involve Google Pay, Apple Pay, PayPal or the likes in your daily life, you're screwed just as well at these charger points On top of that, the standard to publish pricing information to the public coordination exchange is a hot XML/SOAP mess [4]. [1] https://nationale-leitstelle.de/ladeinfrastruktur-im-eu-kontext/ https://nationale-leitstelle.de/ladeinfrastruktur-im-eu-kont... [2] https://www.adac.de/news/verkehr-quishing-parkautomaten/ https://www.adac.de/news/verkehr-quishing-parkautomaten/ [3] https://www.adac.de/news/auto-quishing-betrug-ladesaeule/ https://www.adac.de/news/auto-quishing-betrug-ladesaeule/ [4] https://nationale-leitstelle.de/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Mobilithek-Technische-Schnittstellenbeschreibung_V1.3.1.pdf https://nationale-leitstelle.de/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/M...
• Okkef 1y ago
  Nice, we did the same recently. The choice was 2016 100k km Golf Plus for 16k eur 2020 50k km e-Golf for 13k eur I'm so glad we picked the e-golf! It's so fast and nice to drive and cheap to run. Only downside is the limited range (200km on a summer day) but even my commute (100km one-way) is OK as I can charge at work and home. That said, we still have a Touran for when we need to drive further or with lots of luggage. If only the chairs in the eGolf were a bit better...
  • ahartmetz 1y ago
    Bad seats in a VW? Yeah, I guess they really saved too much on the interior in that generation.
    • Marsymars 1y ago
      My parents have a SportWagen with various extra cushions on the seats because they find them so uncomfortable.
  • haunter 1y ago
    If that were me then for that much money I'd just buy a used Tesla Model 3
    • seszett 1y ago
      For many people in Europe, Tesla is just out of question now.
    • Okkef 1y ago
      A used tesla model 3 in the Netherlands is upwards of 20k euro, so quite a different price bracket.
      • sandos 1y ago
        Also, guessing here, the insurance is quite a bit higher. The 400+hp Teslas are super-expensive to insure here in Sweden. Like 3x the price of only slightly cheaper, but less powerful EVs.
• liendolucas 1y ago
  Looks like you bought a faulty computer which happens to have 4 wheels buddy. The neutral and parking brake issues: that just by itself should make Nissan stocks plummet. 2025 and we have these issues? It definitely looks an involution to me. Things we humans are still lame at: adapters. Power adapters, cable data adapters. Why do we have bazillions adapters? Can't we just design one adapter for the whole world that makes happy both manufacturers and customers? If not governments should step in and force manufacturers to include all adapters ever needed as part of a car purchase. That you have to spend more money just to charge a car because of the adapter is ridiculous. If EVs are in this line of quality/user experience in general, thanks I'll pass and get something reliable and old school that actually works as expected. Edit: And we don't need mobile apps to control our cars. Another really stupid and ridiculous idea that has been pushed to customers when no-one actually asked for that.
  • deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  • numpad0 1y ago
    EU solved it years ago by mandating CCS2. Even Tesla in EU uses that plug and reportedly just works, except Tesla have no access to DCFC without carrying an adapter because they adamantly reject Combo2. I believe China does the same, only stricter, and some of Model S/X in China reportedly has fuel doors to fit the port. As if regulations work. They seem to have very strange situations over there.
    • rsynnott 1y ago
      Strictly speaking, the EU only mandates CCS2 on _chargers_; the second gen Leaf sold in Europe didn't have CCS2, though I think it was about the last car not to have it.
    • bluGill 1y ago
      Everyone in the us has now agreed to use teslas NACS so this problem will go away with new cars over the next 5 years or so. If you have an older car good luck. And many parking garrages won't update their chargers. Still with NACS and ev's taking off you will see a lot more chargers going up as investors try to get this new market for charging:
• GeoAtreides 1y ago
  Am I blind or he doesn't the mention the price anywhere in the post?!
  • geerlingguy 1y ago
    Sorry, just added that data towards the end.
• cillian64 1y ago
  The trick with neutral in the leaf is that you have to hold the gear selector in the neutral direction for about a second. No relation to brake pedal timing as far as I can tell. No idea why neutral has that delay given none of the other “gears” do.
  • potato3732842 1y ago
    Because neutral isn't a thing they expect the lowest common denominator consumer the car is designed to be usable for to be using on the daily so they gate it behind some stupid extra motions. It's like a "lite" version of how some cars make you enter a stupid cheat code to reset your oil change reminder or some other thing that should just be in settings.
• usui 1y ago
  How can you write "I bought the cheapest EV" in the blog title, and have a section called "Why buy Leaf?" followed by a one-liner zinger aphorism "Price." without writing... the price you bought your used Nissan Leaf for? Someone might want to reference how much it cost back in 2025 a few years down the road.
  • anotheryou 1y ago
    I skimmed for way to long to realize it's just not in there...
  • geerlingguy 1y ago
    $17k minus an extra $2k added to my Camry's trade-in value, and it's eligible for the $4k used vehicle EV tax rebate at the end of the year. So out the door $15k with 36k miles and 94% doh battery, I was satisfied with the deal. At the end of the tax year I'll have paid $11k for the car, effectively. I tacked on the price of the CHAdeMO adapter mentally to the price I offered, since I knew I'd want it for the one or two regional road trips I take per year.
    • pbronez 1y ago
      BMW i3 are going for about the same.
      • lagniappe 1y ago
        and they're an absolute -nightmare- to maintain.... even with that being the case i still want one because russ hannaman had a point- everyone loves a car with doors that open like this \[]/ not like this =[]=
        • klardotsh 1y ago
          My 2017 i3 REX is just fine. It needs new tires before winter hits, an alignment (it gets knocked way out really easily, especially if you've ever taken it on a less than perfect road. Washington State has many such roads), and I should probably proactively do an oil change on the REX. Oh, and drivers seat heater has a short so doesn't work (the fix from BMW would be prohibitively expensive, but I may try a DIY re-wire). Otherwise, this car is as close to a perfect daily driver I've ever owned. I hope it lasts forever: not a single touchscreen, no OTA updates, decent battery range (and DC Fast Charging at 60kW+), gas engine to fall back on (with OBD-II programming you can enable Hold State of Charge on the NA models allowing you to truly treat the i3 as a proper series-hybrid and not just an emergency limp-along range extender that will crap out going up a hill in the cold), comfy seats, and did I mention NO TOUCHSCREENS and NO OTA UPDATES?
• prmoustache 1y ago
  > and I found myself with a very short commute, only driving a few miles a day, and a family minivan we use for nearly all the 'driving around the kids' stuff. > > So I wanted a smaller car (get back a foot or so of garage space...) that was also more efficient. All this to say what he really needs was an electrically assisted bicycle instead of a huge and heavy energy wasting vehicle.
  • zubiaur 1y ago
    Some cities have seasons. Some cities lack bike infra. Some people don't like bikes.
  • geerlingguy 1y ago
    Bike would be amazing if the city I live in weren't a death trap for bikes. I had considered it but I do need a way to get 10-20 miles for things like kids' events or to pick up things from stores for my YT work, at least once or twice a week.
    • prmoustache 1y ago
      I've transported large stuff with my bike mind you, including furnitures and a small tree (in a trailer) and 20 miles is smaller than my longest commute on my bicycle which was 24miles each way. And that was without electric assist. When I look at the low average speed and time spent in car when I use one in an urban area, it just doesn't make any sense in most cities. But the safety issue is another story though. Every time I relocated I took that parameter into account before choosing a new place.
• girvo 1y ago
  I agree with the ugly comments, which is why I went with the Cupra Born (2024)! It’s like a sporty space egg and I love it haha
• quitit 1y ago
  Something which this article highlights is the lack of reliable rail in the USA. Where I am there is a decent rail network, and the rail provider has a fleet of EVs for rent, where the cost of the electricity is included. This provides a "green" last mile solution even if the public transport itself in each area may be lacking (often it's not however). So a trip looks like this: Hop on the train which quickly takes the lion's-share of the travelling distance, then switch to an EV that fills the gap to the final destination/s. Then do this process in reverse to get home. This approach solves the largest problems presented by the author.
  • 1970-01-01 1y ago
    High speed rails would involve large scale manufacturing and long-term planning. This is the one thing the US simply cannot do anymore (unless it's military, then they will make 300ish in a decade)
    • quitit 1y ago
      High speed rail is definitely not a requirement. Ordinary trains are still faster than driving. What the USA lacks is a robust network. The spread of rail is too thin to be useful for everyday use.
      • dboreham 1y ago
        Trains in the western US are not faster than driving because there is heavy freight rail traffic. Passenger trains (if they existed) would get stuck behind slow freight trains.
        • quitit 1y ago
          That’s why more rail needs to be built. I.e a robust network - I find I’m repeating myself. Side lanes are also a feature of these networks, and exist not just to overtake freight or behind schedule trains, but also enable different levels of service, such as express trains versus “all stops” style services. The optics of this thread are telling.
• mangecoeur 1y ago
  As European it really struck me how poor the second hand ev market must be in the US. For the “cheap second hand car to do short distances” we have a lot of options really cheap - older gen Renault Zoe and Peugeot e208s, leafs, even the old hyundai Ioniq which is a bit of a cult favourite for its efficiency
  • bluGill 1y ago
    If you buy used cars you are limited to what someone else bought 3 or more years ago. new didn't have many options then. Even now there are not many good options for a new car buyer but most niches have something. I wanted an used id.buzz, but that won't be an option for 2 more years and so I'm stuck with the current minivan. my truck is dieing and a silverado could do but I can't afford payments on it new so again 2 more years and I need something else in the meantime.
  • eloisant 1y ago
    Gas is cheap in US, so they have less incentives to buy EVs to start with.
  • ponector 1y ago
    I don't think it's an EV issue. It's rather "How poor the second hand small car market must be in the US". I guess alternatives in the same class in US are only two cars: Fiat 500 and Yaris.
• lowwave 1y ago
  > They seem to not require an Internet connection for their cars That would be the only reason to get that car now days! Can the car just drive without Internet. I want my car to be my not connected to cloud for all kinds crap.
• 1970-01-01 1y ago
  Its fun to witness EVs living up to their original promise. Yes, the 1st generation of EVs without battery heating and cooling were mostly disposable experiments to catch-up with Tesla. That much is fact. However, the late model, new-wave of EVs (with proper battery technology) have crushed every excuse, except for variety.
• matthewaveryusa 1y ago
  I literally bought the cheapest EV: 400 dollars for a 2012 nissan leaf with 80% battery life and 80k miles (saved from being junked.) MA taxes and delivery made it about 1k when it was all said and done. Insurance is 400/year. We fit 3 kid seats in the back and have replaced all our metropolitan rides with the nissan. Ostensibly we are all < 6ft tall otherwise the 3 seats wouldn't work. Our range is 60 miles in the summer, 50 in the winter. Because of how we use it a regular 15 amp plug works for us. Any long trip is taken with our 2018 honda HRV + Thule. I've been monitoring the usage of our gas car and financially it makes more sense for us to rent a gas car for our trips rather than pay for the ownership + insurance of our car. The math on yearly ownership of the gas car is: 555 treasury yield when selling the car (15000 * 0.05 on a 30 less 30% taxes), 1200 insurance, 200 yearly maintenance (oil changes, amortized tires...), 375 excise tax, 40 inspection That's about 2.2k/year or about 4 weeks of rental for an SUV. We're still holding on to the gas car for the impromptu apple picking/beach day/day trip that sets us over the 50 mile radius, but zipcar could fill that void
  • plopz 1y ago
    is your excise tax really 375? my 2014 honda civic is only $50
    • kjkjadksj 1y ago
      Registration is usually far higher with EVs because they aren’t paying into gas taxes that go towards road work.
      • eloisant 1y ago
        I wonder how road work is going to be financed once most cars are EVs
    • matthewaveryusa 1y ago
      Ah you're right, it's 50, I was looking at my 2020 bill
  • yellow_lead 1y ago
• dreamcompiler 1y ago
  > I want an EV that looks like a Camry. Just blend in and don't stand out. The Camry has a drag coefficient of about 0.36. The Leaf is about 0.28. https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List Drag coefficient matters a lot for EVs. Air resistance reduces the range of all cars, but you notice the decrease in an EV. (When I plan a long trip, I use windy.com to see if I'll have a headwind or a tailwind and I plan accordingly.) That's why EVs look different. And why EV trucks often have terrible range, even though they have more room for batteries.
  • ForOldHack 1y ago
    Agree. Drag coefficient is significant as well as waxing. I think almost almost a clear third was due to waxing. And it really is not that hard to do once a week.
  • loeg 1y ago
    The coefficient isn't what matters; it's CdA (coefficient of drag times frontal area). (And what it matters for is efficiency at highway speeds.) Like, my Kia EV9 has a Cd of 0.28, but the frontal area of a schoolbus. My mi/kWh at highway speeds is much worse than what an electrified Camry with a 0.36 Cd would get. Something the size of a Camry would be totally fine as an EV. Lucid Air is approximately this shape and is a great EV. (And at lower speeds, drivetrain and tire friction become bigger factors.)