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Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc
- elpakal 1y agoHopefully not bound to SwiftUI like seemingly everything else Apple Intelligence so far. But on-device llm (private) would be real nice to have.
- datadrivenangel 1y ago"The framework has native support for Swift, so developers can easily access the Apple Intelligence model with as few as three lines of code." Bad news.
- KerrAvon 1y agoSwift != SwiftUI
- samcat116 1y agoThe api looks like "give it a string prompt, async get a string back", so not tied to any particular UI Framework.
- turnsout 1y agoThank goodness… this will hopefully help keep app bundle sizes down, and allow developers to avoid calling AI APIs for trivial stuff like summaries.
- amluto 1y ago> This year, App Intents gains support for visual intelligence. This enables apps to provide visual search results within the visual intelligence experience, allowing users to go directly into the app from those results. How about starting with reliably, deterministically, and instantly (say <50ms) finding obvious things like installed apps when searching by a prefix of their name? As a second criterion, I would like to find files by substrings of their name. Spotlight is unbelievably bad and has been unbelievably bad for quite a few years. It seems to return things slowly, in erratic order (the same search does not consistently give the same results) and unreliably (items that are definitely there regularly fail to appear in search results).
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- doctorpangloss 1y agoUser: yells Feedback into void.
- cube2222 1y agoFwiw, spotlight in MacOS seems to be getting a major revamp too (basing this on the WWDC livestream, but there seems to be a note about it on their blog[0] too), pushing it a bit more in the direction of tools like Alfred or Raycast, and allegedly also being faster (but that's marketing speak of course, so we'll see when Fall comes). [0]: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/06/macos-tahoe-26-makes-the-mac-more-capable-productive-and-intelligent-than-ever/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/06/macos-tahoe-26-makes-...
- catoc 1y ago“How about starting with reliably, deterministically, and instantly (say <50ms) finding obvious things like <…> searching by a prefix of their name? As a second criterion, I would like to find files by substrings of their name” Even I can, and have, build search functionality like this. Deterministically. No LLMs or “AI” needed. In fact for satisfying the above criteria this kind of implementation is still far more reliable.
- amluto 1y agoI've also written search code like this. It's trivial, at least at the scale of installed apps and such on a single computer. AI makes it strictly worse. I do not want intelligence. I want to type, for example, "saf" and have Safari appear immediately, in the same place, every time, without popping into a different place as I'm trying to click it because a slower search process decided to displace the result. No "temperature", no randomness, no fancy crap.
- olyjohn 1y agoQuicksilver worked great back in the day before Spotlight was ever even a thought.
- visarga 1y agoI guess LLM and AI are forbidden words in Apple language. They do their utmost to avoid these words.
- iambateman 1y agoLLM's get six mentions in this article.
- mbowcut2 1y agoNah, I think they made it model agnostic, which is kinda smart.
- barbazoo 1y agoSearch for "large language model" instead of "LLM".
- simonw 1y agoThey took the clever (in my opinion) decision to rebrand "AI" as "Apple Intelligence", presumably partly in order to avoid the infinite tired "it's not really AI" takes that have surrounded that acronym for decades.
- rtaylorgarlock 1y agoBecause they don't own it, or the models they (don't) own aren't good enough for a standalone brand? Sure seems like it.
- behnamoh 1y ago[flagged]
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- simonw 1y agoIs there a beta we can install to try out these models yet?
- mathewsanders 1y agoThis press release says it will be available “starting today” through developer program https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/06/apple-supercharges-its-tools-and-technologies-for-developers/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/06/apple-supercharges-it...
- bitpush 1y agoWhat model are they bundling? Something apple-custom? How capable is it?
- jjice 1y agoApple has their own models under the hood I believe. I remember from like a year or two ago they had an open line called "ELM" (Efficient Language Model), but I'm not sure if that's what they're actually using. I am excited to see what the benchmarks look like though, once it's live.
- tough 1y agothey also use their ANE and CoreML for smaller on-device stuff https://huggingface.co/apple https://huggingface.co/apple
- simonw 1y agoThey described their home-grown models last year: https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/introducing-apple-foundation-models https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/introducing-apple... I'm assuming this is an updated version of those.
- alwillis 1y agoThey're also working with Anthropic on a coding platform: https://www.macrumors.com/2025/05/02/apple-anthropic-ai-coding-platform/ https://www.macrumors.com/2025/05/02/apple-anthropic-ai-codi...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- sabareesh 1y agoGood move, not sure they are exposing other modalities as well ?
- dedicate 1y agoOkay, the AI stuff is cool, but that "Containerization framework" mention is kinda huge, right? I mean, native Linux container support on Mac could be a game-changer for my whole workflow, maybe even making Docker less of a headache.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- marviel 1y agoyeah -- I saw it's built on "open source foundations", do you know what project this is?
- underdeserver 1y agoThe CLI sure looks a lot like Docker.
- cmiles74 1y agoBeing able to drop Docker Desktop would be great. We're using Podman on MacOS now in a couple places, it's pretty good but it is another tool. Having the same tool across MacOS and Linux would be nice.
- mgreg 1y agoThere's also Rancher Desktop (https://rancherdesktop.io/ https://rancherdesktop.io/). Supports moby and containerd; also optionally runs kubernetes.
- jbverschoor 1y agoOrbstack
- samgranieri 1y agoI have to drop docker desktop at work and move to podman. I'm the primary author of amalgamation of GitHub's scripts to rule them all with docker compose so my colleagues can just type `script/setup` and `script/server` (and more!) and the underlying scripts handle the rest. Apple including this natively is nice, but I won't be a able to use this because my scripts have to work on linux and probably WSL
- minimaxir 1y agoThey also just announced that Shortcuts can use these endpoints (or Private Cloud Compute or ChatGPT).
- retskrad 1y agoAfter reading the book "Apple in China", it’s hilarious to observe the contrast between Apple as a ruthless, amoral capitalist corporation behind the scenes and these WWDC presentations...
- bigyabai 1y agoThis just in: company that spends billions on marketing is effective at marketing their products. News at 11.
- reaperducer 1y agoNews at 11. …10 Central and Mountain.
- digianarchist 1y agoiPadOS and OSX continue to converge into one platform.
- xattt 1y agoCalling it: Apple allOS 27 incoming next year, with Final Cut Pro on your Apple Watch.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- rconti 1y agoMulti-user iPadOS when?
- olyjohn 1y agoNever, it'll be single user MacOS.
- xp84 1y agoWhen they figure out how to make it not dent sales of individual devices. If you and your spouse could easily share one around the house for different purposes but still having each of your personal apps and settings, you might not buy two!
- alwillis 1y ago> If you and your spouse could easily share one around the house for different purposes but still having each of your personal apps and settings, you might not buy two! I get it, but an iPad starts at $349; often available for less. At this point, an iPad is no different than a phone—most people wouldn't share a single tablet. Laptops and desktops that run macOS, Linux, Windows which are multiuser operating systems have largely become single-user devices.
- xp84 1y ago
- nikolayasdf123 1y agothis aged so well https://github.com/apple/ml-fastvlm/issues/7 https://github.com/apple/ml-fastvlm/issues/7
- cpldcpu 1y agoThere is almost no information under the link
- vouaobrasil 1y agoApple's integration of AI into its MacOS is the one reason why I am considering a switch back to Linux after my current laptop dies.
- jw1224 1y agoIf that’s the one reason, have you considered just… not using the AI features?
- doublerabbit 1y agoSure you can for now. But what when it's forced upon you to use them?
- vouaobrasil 1y agoI find it offensive to have any generative AI code on my computer.
- azinman2 1y agoSo, then don’t do that? It’s not like it’s automatically generating code without you asking.
- mohsen1 1y agoiPad update is going to encourage a new series of folks trying to use iPads for general programming. I'm curious how it goes this time around. I'm cautiously optimistic
- msgodel 1y agoIsn't it still impossible to run any dev tools on the iPad?
- robterrell 1y agoIIRC Swift Playgrounds goes pretty deep -- a full LLVM compiler for Swift and you can use any platform API -- but you can't build something for distribution. The limitations are all at the Apple policy level.
- zapzupnz 1y agoNot quite. As another user mentioned, there's Swift Playgrounds which is complete enough that you can even upload apps made in it to the App Store. Aside from that, there are also IDEs like Pythonista for creating Python-based apps and others for Lua, JavaScript, etc. many of which come with their own frameworks for making native iOS/iPadOS interfaces.
- mohsen1 1y agoI can assume that they are going to bring the Container stuff to iPad at some point. That would unlock so many things...
- eastbound 1y agoYou can’t run Docker on an iPad.
- KolibriFly 1y agoI think the story might actually be changing this time
- rs186 1y agoNo vscode, no deal. I don't see that happening any time soon.
- codethief 1y ago> New Design with Liquid Glass Looks like software UI design – just like fashion, film, architecture and many other fields I'm sure – has now officially entered the "nothing new under the sun" / "let's recycle ideas from xx years ago" stage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_%28user_interface%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_%28user_interface%29 To be clear, this is just an observation, not a judgment of that change or the quality of the design by itself. I was getting similar vibes from the recent announcement of design changes in Android.
- kif 1y agoI love it. Reminds me of Windows 7. The nostalgia is too strong with this one.
- ordinaryradical 1y agoI used to find these changes compelling but now I think they are mostly a pain in the ass or questionable. Proof of a well-designed UI is stability, not change. Reads to me strongly of an effort to give traditional media something shiny to put above the headline and keep the marketing engine running.
- footlose_3815 1y agoIf you read the press release, you can see it's 100% about marketing and nothing else. Apple will spend 10x the effort to tell you way a useless feature is necessary before they look at user feedback.
- crooked-v 1y agoI kind of hate it. Every use of it in the videos shown so far has moments where it's so transparent as to have borderline unreadable contrast.
- summarity 1y agoThe last example in the first carousel is the worst, the bottom glass elements have complete unreadable text
- visiondude 1y agoExcited to try these out and see benchmarks. Expectations for on device small local model should be pretty low but let’s see if Apple cooked up any magic here.
- cjrd 1y agosome benchmarks here: https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/apple-foundation-models-2025-updates https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/apple-foundation-...
- chakintosh 1y agoSome 15 years ago, A friend of mine said to me "mark my words, Apple will eventually merge OSX with iOS on the iPad". And with every passing keynote since then, it seemed Apple's been inching towards that prophecy, and today, the iPad has become practically a MacBook Air with a touch screen. Unless you were a video editor, programmer who needs resources to compile or a 3D artist, I don't see how you'd need anything other than an iPad.
- jeron 1y agoipad hardware is a full blown M chip. There's no real hardware limitation that stops the iPad from running macOS, but merging it cannibalizes each product line's sales
- chakintosh 1y agoThe new windowing feature basically cannibalizes MacBook Air.
- threetonesun 1y agoA Macbook Air is cheaper than an iPad Pro with a keyboard though. Not to mention you still can't run apps from outside the app store, and most of these new features we're hoping work as well as they do on MacOS, but given that background tasks had to be an API, I doubt they will.
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoiPad+keyboard is also awkwardly top heavy and not very well suited for lap use. That might cease to be an issue with sufficiently dense batteries bringing down the weight of the iPad though.
- tarentel 1y agoThere's still software I can't run on an iPad which is basically the only reason I have a MacBook Air. Maybe for some a windowing system may be the push to switch but that seems doubtful to me.
- nehalem 1y agoI wonder what happened to Siri. Not a single mention anywhere?
- m3kw9 1y agohope to show you more later this year. was like the first thing they said about apple intelligence
- alt227 1y agoWhich is the same as what they said last year.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- KolibriFly 1y agoI actually loved Siri when it first came out. It felt magical back then (in a way)
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- lenerdenator 1y agoI like that there's support for locally-run models on Xcode. I wish I thought that the Game Porting Toolkit 3 would make a difference, but I think Apple's going to have to incentivize game studios to use it. And they should; the Apple Silicon is good enough to run a lot of games. ... when are they going to have the courage to release MacOS Bakersfield? C'mon. Do it. You're gonna tell me California's all zingers? Nah. We know better.
- nikolayasdf123 1y agoyeah, getting better LLM support for XCode is great!
- bandoti 1y agoNot sure about that Liquid Glass idea. Ultimately UI widgets are rooted in reality (switches, knobs, doohickeys) and liquid glass is Salvador-Dali-Esque. Imagine driving a car and the gear shifter was made of liquid glass… people would hit more grannies than a self-driving Tesla.
- dorian-graph 1y agoWill they ever update Terminal.app?
- garciasn 1y agoJust use iTerm2 (Warp or Kitty are two other options out of many) and be done w/it; why would Apple even worry about this when so few people who care about terminal applications even think twice about it?
- Onavo 1y agoAlso ghostty
- dorian-graph 1y agoI've tried all of them, including ones that yourself, and others, haven't mentioned like Rio. I stand by wanting Terminal.app simply updated with better colour support, then it's one less alternative program to get.
- davidcox143 1y agoUnlikely to happen soon. It’s maintained by one engineer who is very against anything resembling iTerm2.
- visiondude 1y agoThey did!!! At least color options. Just announced at platform state of the union
- dorian-graph 1y agoYes! In another comment of mine, that was the main thing I mentioned, haha. edit: For those curious, https://youtu.be/51iONeETSng?t=3368 https://youtu.be/51iONeETSng?t=3368. - New theme inspired by Liquid Glass - 24-bit colour - Powerline fonts
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dblooman 1y agoCan someone who uses Xcode daily compare to say Cursor or VsCode how the developer experience is. Just curious how Apple is keeping up
- nikolayasdf123 1y agoXCode so far is very rudimentary. miles behind VSCode in autocomplete. autocomplete is very small, single line, and suggests very very rarely. and no other features except autocomplete exist. very good to see XCode LLM improvements! > I use VSCode Go daily + XCode Swift 6 iOS 18 daily
- WhyNotHugo 1y agoSeveral years ago XCode also had “jump to definition” and a few other features.
- babyshake 1y agoDoes the privacy preserving aspect of this mean that Apple Intelligence can be invoked within an app, but the results provided by Apple Intelligence are not accessible to the app to be transmitted to their server or utilized in other ways? Or is the privacy preservation handled in a different way?
- jonplackett 1y agoI think they just mean private from Apple. I don’t see how they can keep it private from the developer if it’s integrated into the app
- esafak 1y agoDoes this mean we will longer need Docker Desktop or colima?
- badc0ffee 1y agoThat's what it sounds like: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2025/346 https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2025/346
- N_A_T_E 1y ago> New Design with Liquid Glass Yes, bringing back aqua! I even see blue in their examples.
- pxc 1y agoI hoped for a moment that "Containerization Framework" meant that macOS itself would be getting containers. Running Linux containers and VMs on macOS via virtualization is already pretty easy and has many good options. If you're willing to use proprietary applications to do this, OrbStack is the slickest, but Lima/Colima is fine, and Podman Desktop and Rancher Desktop work well, too. The thing macOS really painfully lacks is not ergonomic ways to run Linux VMs, but actual, native containers-- macOS containers. And third parties can't really implement this well without Apple's cooperation. There have been some efforts to do this, but the most notable one is now defunct, judging by its busted/empty website[1] and deleted GitHub organization[2]. It required disabling SIP to work, back when it at least sort-of worked. There's one newer effort that seems to be alive, but it's also afflicted with significant limitations for want of macOS features[3]. That would be super useful and fill a real gap, meeting needs that third-party software can't. Instead, as wmf has noted elsewhere in these comments, it seems they've simply "Sherlock'd" OrbStack. -- 1: https://macoscontainers.org/ https://macoscontainers.org/ 2: https://github.com/macOScontainers https://github.com/macOScontainers 3: https://github.com/Okerew/osxiec https://github.com/Okerew/osxiec
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- xyst 1y agoback to "glass" UI element/design? Early 2000s is back, I guess. Edit: surprised apple is dumping resources into gaming, maybe they are playing the long game here?
- teruakohatu 1y ago> Every Apple Developer Program membership includes 200GB of Apple hosting capacity for the App Store. Apple-Hosted Background Assets can be submitted separately from an app build. Is this the first time Apple has offered something substantial for the App store fees beyond the SDK/Xcode and basic app distribution? Is it a way to give developers a reason to limit distribution to only the official App Store, or will this be offered regardless of what store the app is downloaded from?
- Klonoar 1y agoHuh. Does this cover if you use public CloudKit databases...?
- glhaynes 1y agoBackground Assets have existed for years. I’m not sure that 200GB figure is new.
- samcat116 1y ago> Is this the first time Apple has offered something substantial for the App store fees beyond the SDK/Xcode and basic app distribution? They've offered 25hrs/mo of Xcode Cloud build time for the last couple years.
- pjmlp 1y agoWebKit is also being swiftified, as mentioned on the platforms state of the union.
- Klonoar 1y agoAs in they're integrating Swift into the WebKit project, or exposing Swift-y wrappers over WebKit itself?
- pjmlp 1y agoThere is probably going to be a session later this week, the reference seemed to imply they are integrating Swift into Webkit project for new development.
- Klonoar 1y agoInteresting, I wonder if that pushes Swift on Linux further given other projects (webkitgtk etc).
- pjmlp 1y agoMost likely not, for Apple what matters for Swift on Linux, is being a good server language for app developers that want to share code between app and server, with Apple no longer caring to sell macOS for servers. Everything else they would rather see devs stay on their platforms, see the official tier 1 scenarios on swift.org.
- Illniyar 1y agoOh, Apple is doing windows Aero now? Wonder how long that one'll last.
- bearjaws 1y agoAll this focus on low power gaming makes me think Apple wants to get in on the Steam Deck hype.
- SlowTao 1y agoApple is in a reasonably good place to make gaming work for them. Their hardware across the board is fairly powerful (definetly not top end), they have a good API stack especially with Metal. And they have systems at all levels including TV. If they were to just make a standard controller or just say "PS5 dualshock is our choice" they could have a nice little slice for themselves.
- TheAceOfHearts 1y agoAs I understand it, Apple has a long history of entitlement and burning bridges with every major game developer while making collaboration extremely painful. They were in a much better place to make gaming work 10 years ago when major gaming studios were still interested in working with them.
- jamesy0ung 1y agoJust let me have JIT! My jailbroken iPad Pro can emulate Wii at 4k without getting warm. Unfortunately you have to hack around enabling JIT on newer ios releases.
- syspec 1y agoYou can use DualShocks on Apple TV or iPad games - it's supported. Of course on Mac as well
- bigyabai 1y agoThey better have a partnership with Sony in the works, then. Valve and Apple's approach to supporting video games diverged a decade ago. Hearing "Steam" and "Apple" uttered in the same breath is probably giving people panic attacks already.
- throwaway314155 1y agoUntil Apple-ported games are able to be installed from Steam instead of the App Store, you can count me out.
- bishfish 1y agoI sure hope they provide an accessibility option to turn down translucency to improve contrast or this UI is a non-starter for me. Without using it, this new UI looks like it may favor design over usability. Why don’t they do something more novel and let user tweak interface to their liking?
- mrbonner 1y agoI don't understand the foundation models here. Are they new LLMs trained by Apple such as Qwen?
- gdubs 1y agoThere's a different thread if you want to wax about Fluid Glass etc [1], but there's some really interesting new improvements here for Apple Developers in Xcode 26. The new foundation frameworks around generative language model stuff looks very swift-y and nice for Apple developers. And it's local and on device. In the Platforms State of the Union they showed some really interesting sample apps using it to generate different itineraries in a travel app. The other big thing is vibe-coding coming natively to Xcode through ChatGPT (and other) model integration. Some things that make this look like a nice quality-of-life improvement for Apple developers is the way that it tracks iterative changes with the model so you can rollback easily, and the way it gives context to your codebase. Seems to be a big improvement from the previous, very limited GPT integration with Xcode and the first time Apple Developers have a native version of some of the more popular vibe-coding tools. Their 'drag a napkin sketch into Xcode and get a functional prototype' is pretty wild for someone who grew up writing [myObject retain] in Objective-C. Are these completely ground-breaking features? I think it's more what Apple has historically done which is to not be first into a space, but to really nail the UX. At least, that's the promise – we'll have to see how these tools perform! 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44226612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44226612
- givemeethekeys 1y ago> And it's local and on device. Does that explain why you don't have to worry about token usage? The models run locally?
- hbcondo714 1y ago> You don’t have to worry about the exact tokens that Foundation Models operates with, the API nicely abstracts that away for you [1] I have the same question. Their Deep dive into the Foundation Models framework video is nice for seeing code using the new `FoundationModels` library but for a "deep dive", I would like to learn more about tokenization. Hopefully these details are eventually disclosed unless someone else here already knows? [1] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2025/301/?time=124 https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2025/301/?time=1...
- tough 1y agothey mention kata, so is this using kata underneath instead of their Hypervisor.framework? im confused https://katacontainers.io/ https://katacontainers.io/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/hypervisor https://developer.apple.com/documentation/hypervisor
- sheerun 1y agok
- xpe 1y ago> including over 250,000 APIs that enable developers to integrate their apps with Apple’s hardware and software features. This doesn’t sound impressive, it sounds insane.
- glhaynes 1y agoWhich ones would you like to get rid of?
- xpe 1y agoI can hear the whooshing sound accompanying the snark... I'm talking about how this is communicated. I'd suggest that Apple say something like "200+ developer frameworks" rather than counting up the number of individual methods or functions. Here is a summarization provided by Claude after I back-and-forthed it a bit: -- Apple Developer Frameworks This list represents the vast ecosystem of frameworks available to developers for building applications across Apple's platforms. I. Foundational Frameworks These provide the fundamental services and data management capabilities for all applications. - Core Frameworks: Essential for data types, collections, and low-level services. Examples: Foundation, Core Data, Core Foundation - Security: Manages user authentication, authorization, and cryptographic services. Examples: CryptoKit, LocalAuthentication, Security - App Services: Supports core application functionalities and integrations. Examples: Contacts, EventKit, StoreKit, WeatherKit, ClockKit II. User Interface & Experience Frameworks for building the visual elements and user interactions of an application. - UI Frameworks: The primary toolkits for constructing user interfaces. Examples: SwiftUI, UIKit (for iOS/tvOS), AppKit (for macOS) - Services: Provides access to system-level services with a UI component. Examples: MapKit, CloudKit, Core Location, PassKit III. Graphics & Media For creating rich visual content, games, and handling audio/video. - Graphics & Games: High-performance 2D and 3D graphics rendering and game development. Examples: Metal, SpriteKit, SceneKit, RealityKit - Media: Manages the playback and processing of audio and video. Examples: AVFoundation, Core Audio, VisionKit IV. Machine Learning Enables the integration of intelligent features into applications. - Core ML & Vision: The foundation for machine learning models and computer vision tasks. Examples: Core ML, Vision, Natural Language, Speech - V. Platform-Specific Frameworks The number of available frameworks varies significantly across Apple's operating systems, reflecting the unique capabilities of each platform. - macOS: ~250+ frameworks - iOS/iPadOS: ~200+ frameworks - watchOS: ~50-60 frameworks - tvOS: ~35-40 frameworks - visionOS: A growing set of frameworks for spatial computing.
- can16358p 1y agoI hope they don't turn Liquid Glass into Aqua... which I hated. The only time I started to like the iOS interface was iOS 7 with flat design. I hope they don't turn this into old, skeuomorphic, Aqua-like UI by time.
- badc0ffee 1y agoThe video on Containerization.framework, and the Container tool, is live [0]. It looks like each container will run in its own VM, that will boot into a custom, lightweight init called vminitd that is written in Swift. No information on what Linux kernel they're using, or whether these VMs are going to be ARM only or also Intel, but I haven't really dug in yet [1]. [0] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2025/346 https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2025/346 [1] https://github.com/apple/containerization https://github.com/apple/containerization
- ilyagr 1y agoIf you search the code, they support Rosetta, which means an ARM Linux kernel running x86 container userspace with Rosetta translation. Linux kernel can be told to use a helper to translate code using non-native architecture. Actually, they explain it in detail here: https://github.com/apple/containerization/issues/70#issuecomment-2959909514 https://github.com/apple/containerization/issues/70#issuecom... It's unclear whether this will keep being supported in macOS 28+, though: https://github.com/apple/container/issues/76 https://github.com/apple/container/issues/76, https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/1l7maqp/comment/mwxxoaq/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/1l7maqp/comment/...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- w10-1 1y agoHN should have a conference-findings thread for something like WWDC, with priority impact rankings P4: Foundation models will get newbies involved, but aren't ready to displace other model providers. P4: New containers are ergonomic when sub-second init is required, but otw no virtualization news. P2: Concurrency now visible in instruments and debuggable, high-performance tracing avoid sampling errors; are we finally done with our 4+ years of black-box guesswork? (Not to mention concurrency backtracking to main-thread-by-default as a solution.) P5: UI Look-and-feel changes across all platforms conceal the fact that there are very few new API's. Low content overall: Scan the platforms, and you see only L&F, app intents, widgets. Is that really all? (thus far?) - It's quite concerning. Also low quality: online links point no where, half-baked technologies are filling presentation slots: Swift+Java interop is no where near usable, other topics just point to API documentation, "code-along" sessions restating other sessions. Beware the new upgrade forcing function: adding to the memory requirements of AI, the new concurrency tracing seems to require M4+ level device support.
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- Havoc 1y agoTIL macOS doesn’t have native containers, just in vm. Don’t use macOS but had just kinda assumed it would by virtue of shared unixy background with Linux
- makapuf 1y agoDont containers imply a linux kernel interface ? hence, you can only have truly native containers on linux or use containers in a VM or some kind of Wine-like translation layer.
- chr15m 1y agoIt's the year of Linux on the desktop!
- alt227 1y agoAnother one? lol
- sammysheep 1y agoI watched the video and it seems they are statically linking atop musl to build their lightweight VM layer. I guess the container app itself might use glibc, but will the musl build for the VM itself cause downstream performance issues? I'm no expert in virtualization to be able to understand if this should be a concern or not. See also: - https://edu.chainguard.dev/chainguard/chainguard-images/about/images-compiled-programs/glibc-vs-musl/ https://edu.chainguard.dev/chainguard/chainguard-images/abou... - https://andygrove.io/2020/05/why-musl-extremely-slow/ https://andygrove.io/2020/05/why-musl-extremely-slow/
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- Dusksky 1y ago[flagged]
- curtisszmania 1y ago[dead]
- dang 1y agoRelated ongoing threads: Containerization is a Swift package for running Linux containers on macOS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44229348 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44229348 - June 2025 (158 comments) Container: Apple's Linux-Container Runtime - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44229239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44229239 - June 2025 (11 comments)
- guybedo 1y agolooks like there isn't much to take away from this, here's a few bullet points: Apple Intelligence models primarily run on-device, potentially reducing app bundle sizes and the need for trivial API calls. Apple's new containerization framework is based on virtual machines (VMs) and not a true 'native' kernel-level integration like WSL1. Spotlight on macOS is widely perceived as slow, unreliable, and in significant need of improvement for basic search functionalities. iPadOS and macOS are converging in terms of user experience and features (e.g., windowing), but a complete merger is unlikely due to Apple's business model, particularly App Store control and sales strategies. The new 'Liquid Glass' UI design evokes older aesthetics like Windows Aero and earlier Aqua/skeuomorphism, indicating a shift away from flat design. Full summary (https://extraakt.com/extraakts/apple-intelligence-macos-ui-os-convergence https://extraakt.com/extraakts/apple-intelligence-macos-ui-o...)
- cromka 1y agoApp Store control is something that EU is challenging, including on iPads. So while there’s no macOS APIs on ipadOS, I can totally see 3rd party solutions running macOS apps (and Linux or Windows, too) in a VM and outputting the result as now regular iPad windowed apps.
- KolibriFly 1y agoI'm cautious. Apple's history with developer tools is hit or miss. And while Xcode integrating ChatGPT sounds helpful in theory, I wonder how smooth that experience really is.
- thiyagutenysen 1y agoDoes this mean, we can use llm for free in developing ios apps?
- mattfrommars 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- runjake 1y agoIn case others are confused about the term "Foundation Models": "Foundation Models" is an Apple product name for a framework that taps into a bunch of Apple's on-device AI models.
- dwaite 1y agoNo, the model itself is one of the two Apple foundation language models (the AFM-on-device, specifically) https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/introducing-apple-foundation-models https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/introducing-apple... https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/apple-intelligence-foundation-language-models https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/apple-intelligenc... The architecture is such that the model can be specialized by plugging in more task-specific fine-tuning models as adapters, for instance one made for handling email tasks. At least in this version, it looks like they have only enabled use of one fine-tuning model (content tagging)
- runjake 1y agoYou are wrong. Citation: I read the post. The purpose of the post is to announce the Foundation Models framework. It's mentioned in the very first paragraph and throughout the post. The Foundation Models framework documentation: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundationmodels/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundationmodels/ > The Foundation Models framework provides access to > Apple’s on-device large language model that powers > Apple Intelligence to help you perform intelligent > tasks specific to your use case. Sure, the models are also named the same. That's beside the point. That's not the point of the post you're correcting me on, which is again, announcing the framework.
- pzo 1y agoI'm still a little dissapointed. It seems those models are only available for iPhone series 16 and iPhone 15 pro. According to mixpanel that's only 25% of all iOS devices and even less if taking into account iPadOS. You will still have to use some other online model if you want to cover all iOS 26 users because I doubt apple will approve your app if it will only work on those Apple Intelligence devices. Why should I bother then as a 3rd party developer? Sure nice not having a cost for API for 25% of users but still those models are very small and equivalent of qwen2.5 4B or so and their online models supposed equivalent of llama scout. Those models are already very cheap online so why bother having more complicated code base then? Maybe in 2 years once more iOS users replace their phones but I'm unlikely to use this for developing iOS in the next year. This would be more interesting if all iOS 26 devices at least had access to their server models.
- greggsy 1y agoUptake of iPhone 16+ devices will be much more than 25% by the time someone develops the next killer app using these tools, which will no doubt spur sales anyway.
- rs186 1y agoApp development could be as quickly as a few weeks. If the only "killer apps" we have seen in the past three years are the ChatGPT kind, I'm not holding my breath for a brand new "killer app" that runs only on iPhone 16+.