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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students
- paxys 1y agoHarvard as an institution is older than the USA. It will survive 4 years of a lunatic's presidency.
- tintor 1y agoor 8+ years
- sva_ 1y agoHe will already have serves his second (and therefore last) term, or what do you mean?
- nullhole 1y agoProbably this: https://www.trumpstore.com/product/trump-2028-hat/ https://www.trumpstore.com/product/trump-2028-hat/
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y agoHuh, that page actually seems to admit that the third term is not valid: > Rewrite the rules with the Trump 2028 high crown hat. Or perhaps I misunderstand what they mean with "rewrite the rules".
- r5Khe 1y agoThey know it's not valid. That's why they want to rewrite the rules.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y agoSure, but it’s still couched in legal theory that seeks to legitimize it. That phrasing suggests the rules need to be changed to legitimize it, which tracks with my understanding but not the rhetoric.
- segfaultex 1y agoTrump has repeatedly asserted he wants to run for a "third term" and his base worship him. His electorate's beliefs are whatever he tells them they are. The same is true for the Republican Party. Trump is effectively free to ignore the constitution without consequence.
- thinkcontext 1y agoI took it to mean whoever succeeds him could be just as bad.
- Rudybega 1y agoHe has spoken repeatedly about running for a third term.
- HEmanZ 1y agoI find it unlikely but… Much of my extended family would absolutely join a civil war on side Trump to get him into a permanent position of power if given the opportunity. Some of them are in the military. So it’s not unreasonable by world history standards that he could get a subset of the military on his side in a coup scenario. I think people in large urban centers or outside of the US don’t realize how much certain parts of the country truly worship him above anything else. I know many people like this, I have to see them at family events, so you can’t tell me it’s an exaggeration. I’m not sure there are enough to do anything substantial, but the seeds are there.
- yoyohello13 1y agoYeah the amount of people I heard praising God when he was elected was disturbing. People literally believe he is a messiah. It's terrifying.
- goatlover 1y agoI hope they realize how profoundly un-American it would be to fight a civil war to install a king/dictator in power.
- kccoder 1y agoThey don’t/won’t.
- h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y agoYou are assuming Trump will step down? You are quite naive, aren't you? Martial law will be declared, for whatever reason they can come up with. Maybe the "invasion" excuse again, maybe Greenland, maybe Canada, maybe Mexico. But one thing is sure: Trump will be the last president of this democracy iteration.
- Aeolun 1y agoYou do realize that the last time he was voted out an angry crowd literally stormed the capitol to overturn the election? What more can they do with better preparation?
- pstuart 1y agoTheir goal is for forever+ years. Shit needs to get ugly fast enough to make the masses take notice or they may just get their way.
- vediflo 1y agoAs it’s going, probably 8 years.
- hypeatei 1y agoI'm glad we're testing the guardrails by making our country unappealing the best talent in the world and wasting government resources on a revenge tour.
- daedrdev 1y agoThis is quite literally the appeal to tradition or inertia fallacy. Just because they've been around for a while does not mean they are not facing an existential threat. Every structure humans create will one day collapse. This certainly looks difficult for Harvard and could be their end because there is no divine protection, only the decision that will be made by an extremely conservative Supreme Court and the willingness of authoritarian minded government employees in the trump admin to listen to the courts.
- kurtis_reed 1y agoThings that have been around for a long time are the ones most likely to continue to exist, it's not a fallacy.
- shnock 1y agoThey are not, that is expectation of future performance based upon past. Reality is too complex and dynamic for that.
- rsanek 1y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect
- NoPicklez 1y agoReality is complex and dynamic, and through all of that Harvard's endurance pre-dates the US, therefore I would expect it to endure a 4 year term of Government. Not to say with a 100% certainty, but I would expect it to with a greater degree of confidence than many other things, based on its history. However I wouldn't extend that line of thinking to stock markets, superannuation etc.
- albrewer 1y agoI worked for a foundry that had been at the same location for 120 years. GE ran it into the ground and closed it 2 years after acquiring it.
- sorenjan 1y agoTrump is not the problem, he's a symptom. Don't forget he got reelected, together with a republican congress who does everything he tells them to do.
- rs186 1y agoThis. If Trump is suddenly gone for whatever reason, the succeeding President is going to continue with the MAGA/Project 2025 agenda. Trump may be dumb and stupid, but imagine a US President who is young, energetic and speaks coherently that continues with the same agenda. (Hint: look at DeSantis and what happened in Florida.)
- jimmydoe 1y agoLack a kings in the history is major problem. Four years are far from enough to fix it.
- intended 1y agoI would hope that people with a better reading of history understand how necessary it is to fight lunatics in power.
- cozzyd 1y agoI wonder how many foreign heads of state have children at Harvard
- ty6853 1y agoIt's likely foreign heads of state can obtain a different visa for their children, if they are even on student visas to begin with. They will be accommodated.
- MisterSandman 1y agoIt’s so painful to hear HackerNews talk about visas. It’s pathetic how little people know about the system despite it running a large chunk of the tech industry.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- adamors 1y agohttp://archive.today/SnNBv http://archive.today/SnNBv
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- philip1209 1y agoSo much for "law and order" - this is about sycophancy toward an authoritarian who chooses his own rules.
- rjbwork 1y agoThat's what "conservatives" mean by "law and order". You obey them so they can put you in your place. They want to impose upon the rest of us, not be imposed upon.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y agoAKA Wilhoit's Law “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
- duxup 1y agoGovernment policy in the form of personal grudges rather than law and good policy.
- eyesofgod 1y agoExpect much much more of this as Slicon Valley scum continue to get their way. They have very loudly expressed their desire for a sort of fuedal power and hace polluted the current administration with some of their ideas.
- silverliver 1y agoVery true. A feudal relationship once established was never going to conform to their political interests. They simply pushed too far, too fast, and for too long for that to be a possibility.
- PaulHoule 1y agoAs a staffer at Cornell and person who lives in the area, I worry most about losing students from mainland China. Whether this is an arbitrary Trumpism or the lid blows off in Taiwan matters little.
- philip1209 1y agoI heard University of Illinois bought a policy to protect against losing cash tuitions from Chinese grad students. Perhaps other universities have done the same.
- busyant 1y ago> I heard University of Illinois bought a policy to protect against losing cash tuitions from Chinese grad students Who's selling that policy? edit: looks like they started this in 2017! https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/11/29/university-illinois-insures-itself-against-possible-drop-chinese-enrollments https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/11/29/university-il... That's some forward thinking!
- ty6853 1y agoHilarious if it's the CCP, who would probably have the greatest incentive to sell such a policy.
- PaulHoule 1y agoI think it is more undergrads than grads that pay money, but I think that depends on the field. For a physics PhD for instance at Cornell you usually get paid to teach your first two years and if all goes right do your actual research on a grant. In my case the prof had written a grant for the work I wanted to do which didn't get funded, I spent a summer thinking about the problem which helped us come back with a great grant proposal that got funded. I know Masters of Engineering students pay their own way, maybe other departments are different. I remember there being a lot of Chinese graduate students 25 years ago but now I see lots of undergrads.
- scoofy 1y agoIf you are a Republican and didn’t sign up for this, can you please write your representatives about impeachment? This is getting ridiculous. We’d be much better off with a president Vance.
- dekhn 1y agoThe probability of impeachment succeeding at this time is effectively zero.
- patagurbon 1y agoImpeachment of Kristi Noem could be more likely to succeed though.
- scoofy 1y agoIt’s zero if nobody actually says anything. The legislature has the power to reign in the president. They only have to threaten a bipartisan impeachment.
- fzeroracer 1y agoUnfortunately I don't see a route where Republicans vote for impeachment, ever. They're already refusing to listen to constituents, hiding from their elected duties and letting Trump freely crash the economy on a whim.
- DrillShopper 1y agoRepublicans will not give up power unless doing so saves their fortunes or saves their lives.
- anigbrowl 1y agoAnything difficult is effectively impossible until you decide to begin working on it.
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- ar813 1y agoIf they can do this to Harvard, what hope do other universities have?
- ModernMech 1y agoYea, that’s the message they are trying to send.
- ty6853 1y agoMost the universities will do the thing asked in order to re-instate their student visa certification. i.e. provide intel needed to deport any students that they believe have opinions that are not in the interest of national security. Most likely Harvard will try to fight it in court and then give in if they lose. It's not likely we see the future decertification continue into the academic year.
- vel0city 1y ago> they believe have opinions that are not in the interest of national security So people committing thought crimes huh? This is the US in 2025 - indefinitely imprisoning people without any actual charges for having opinions the current administration doesn't like.
- TimPC 1y agoThis is the country of free speech zones away from the main event in the early 2000s and sending WWI dissenters to jail in 1914. You’ve long pretended to have freedoms you’ve never actually been given and this is hardly new.
- goatlover 1y agoMore like those freedoms get violated on occasion in the name of national security, because administrations are largely able to get away with it during certain crisis.
- HEmanZ 1y ago
- kitsune_ 1y agoInsane how freely the US is giving away its status as a brain drain magnet (context: I'm European).
- croes 1y agoThey still are, they just flipped the poles.
- dudinax 1y agoHas there ever been an empire that committed suicide at the height of power?
- jandrewrogers 1y agoAll of them. "Height of their power" is a retrospective take.
- bobbylarrybobby 1y agoDoesn't mean their death was by suicide, though.
- yubblegum 1y agoIs it is really Trump holding a 'box cutter' to America's throat, or is it a 'controlled demolition' of an "empire" that presents obstacles for a grand plan for the future of global governance .. [p.s. bravo to the one who downvoted as soon as I hit submit! Wow, that was quick. Bots on HN?]
- hkpack 1y agoIt is not a suicide. We are in a global war, and US and the west is taking damage.
- rsynnott 1y agoLots of them, though it's usually through unwinnable wars. See Kaiser Willhelm II, Napoleon, Imperial Japan, etc.
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- Terr_ 1y agoSo now the Presidency is punishing institutions that refuse to create and share spy-dossiers on what their adult students are using their free-speech for. In the last three months, we've collected many data points which are each each further down a slope. I suggest the slope is slippery, and has a very unfortunate end. __________ [Edit] Predicting a future that might resonate more with YC folks: "Pursuant to Trump Executive Order XYZ, you must submit regular firewall logs and social-media handles for activity by your staff. Failure to comply will result in losing the ability to post H1-B positions."
- oldpersonintx2 1y agoDHS said that in addition to barring enrollment of future international students, “existing foreign students must transfer or lose their legal status.” damn, Trump is really gunning for Harvard not sure what rolling over for Trump looks like, but a lot of existing foreign students will be screwed unless something gives
- yongjik 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- kochb 1y agoDon’t miss this bit. Currently enrolled students are going to need to find a new university. > In a news release, the Department of Homeland Security sent a stark message to Harvard’s international students: “This means Harvard can no longer enroll foreign students, and existing foreign students must transfer or lose their legal status.”
- ceejayoz 1y agoA judge has already blocked the move. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/judge-blocks-trump-revoking-international-students-legal-status-rcna208625 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/judge-blocks-tr... > A federal judge in California has blocked the Trump administration from terminating the legal statuses of international students at universities across the U.S.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- kristjansson 1y agoI believe they've taken a different tactic here - attacking Harvard's ability to enroll international students, not the students' status directly.
- ceejayoz 1y agoThe article states "existing foreign students must transfer or lose their legal status"; this injunction would appear to pause that.
- ty6853 1y agoThe semester is already over, many of them went home. They'll simply be refused when they try to come back.
- firesteelrain 1y ago
- HEmanZ 1y agoI feel US higher education, which brain drains the rest of the world, is easily one of the best strategic advantages it could have for the next 100 years. Let’s throw that all away because learning is liberal.
- sillyfluke 1y agoWaterloo, McGill, and U of Toronto admissions offices should be spending the entire day tomorrow calling the full international Harvard roster ASAP.
- hangonhn 1y agoHonestly as an American, I would seriously consider how my daughter can go to these top Canadian or EU schools.
- OutOfHere 1y agoConsider ETH Zurich too, although if truth be told, K12+4+2 education is 100% obsoleted now by AI; only PhD is still very relevant.
- InitialLastName 1y agoThe AI didn't tell you that the idiom is "if truth be told", so how useful is it really?
- ben_w 1y agoBy the time LLMs are routinely writing, or even proof-reading, the majority of Hacker News comments, it's already game over for the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory
- tonfa 1y agoTho non trivial for non-swiss educated people to enter (and need German fluency for bachelor).
- cosmicgadget 1y ago[flagged]
- achristmascarl 1y agoI wonder what avenues there are for Harvard to challenge this; it looks like the mechanism the Trump Admin used was for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to cancel Harvard's Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVP) certification [0] which is managed by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) [1]. Does ICE just have full discretion over SEVP? Can they do this to any school for whatever reason they want? [0] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/05/22/harvard-university-loses-student-and-exchange-visitor-program-certification-pro https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/05/22/harvard-university-loses... [1] https://www.dhs.gov/publication/dhsicepia-001-student-exchange-visitor-information-system-sevis https://www.dhs.gov/publication/dhsicepia-001-student-exchan...
- ty6853 1y agoThe actual letter explains they can regain status by ratting out their students. It will quietly be done, although likely in a way that make it look as if Harvard hasn't.
- yongjik 1y agoMaybe, but I doubt it. Trump is not a mafia boss - time after time he showed that his words cannot be trusted. If Harvard makes a concession, there's no guarantee that Trump will "forgive" it. Look how China is dealing with Trump. Trump announces tariffs, China returns Boeing planes, tariffs somehow comes down.
- cozzyd 1y agoIt's too bad Barron was too dumb to enroll at Harvard so his admission couldn't be rescinded
- nicoburns 1y agoAs a sovereign nation, China is in a somewhat different position than Harvard which is subject to US law.
- thaumasiotes 1y ago> Trump is not a mafia boss - time after time he showed that his words cannot be trusted. If Harvard makes a concession, there's no guarantee that Trump will "forgive" it. > Look how China is dealing with Trump. Trump announces tariffs, China returns Boeing planes, tariffs somehow comes down. Doesn't this example make the opposite of your point?
- ivape 1y agoI am going to get downvoted and flagged because I will bring up a topic that is not to be discussed here: From a similar CNN article: "Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem ordered her department to terminate Harvard’s Student and Exchange Visitor Program certification, making good on a promise made last month when she demanded the university hand over detailed records on its international students’ “illegal and violent activities” before April 30 or face the loss of its certification." Okay, who could they possibly be talking about? Right. The Gaza protesters. Miriam Adelson - $150m donated to Trump, second highest Elon Musk is not the only one that bought the White House. So there is a genocide that if any of us tech people had some courage we could easily make some pretty wild visualizations of the before/after of Gaza maps, and the current full scale ethnic cleansing of it, but we can't bring it up. We're failing as tech people on this, but so is the whole world.
- adamors 1y agoIt could be Gaza protesters sure but it could be anyone. Previously legal residents were deported for minor traffic violations. They’re trying to hit some targets for deportation numbers and shipping home “criminal” foreign students is an easy win.
- ivape 1y agoNo, it can't be anyone. Please don't do this. This is about the Palestinian situation. They tried to pressure the TikTok purchase so they change their algorithm to show less Gaza deaths. It is simply about that, and there is also a money trail of top donors that corroborate this. They also made a show of arresting the Columbia Palestinian organizer. They are not looking for illegal Mexicans in the Ivy League.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ceejayoz 1y agoAuthoritarian regimes aren't exactly known for going "ah, good, we've done enough oppression now!" They're targeting everyone they can find. Russian refugees (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/11/science/russian-scientist-ice-detained-harvard.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/11/science/russian-scientist...), Danish people who missed a form (https://www.mississippifreepress.org/ice-arrests-mississippi-father-at-his-citizenship-hearing-threatening-deportation/ https://www.mississippifreepress.org/ice-arrests-mississippi...), etc.
- sva_ 1y ago> When a University’s SEVP certification is revoked, currently enrolled international students must choose between transferring to a different institution, changing their immigration status, or leaving the country, according to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement website. It's crazy they're punishing tons of students who don't even have anything to do with these protests
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Terr_ 1y agos/crazy/deliberately evil/g They might prefer to start with certain targets, but all international students are target of opportunity [0] the same way they've attacked people with lawful residency. [1] Though perhaps with some very particular and suspicious quasi-ethnic exceptions. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crljn5046epo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crljn5046epo [0] Ex. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/09/us/immigration-green-card-crackdown-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/09/us/immigration-green-card..., https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article304988381.html https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article304988381.html
- gorbachev 1y agoThe target is Harvard University and the Woke Masterminds Who Are Destroying America. The champions of One True America are just using international students as pawns to force Harvard's hand.
- zzzeek 1y ago[flagged]
- sorcerer-mar 1y agoIt’s also crazy (read: unconstitutional) to punish students who do have everything to do with these protests.
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- omnee 1y agoTrump is acting in the manner of all previous authoritarians: What is good for him is what's good for the country and the laws that align with this are proper, and those that do not will be ignored or changed where possible. The rule of law is anathema to authoritarians, and hence why they detest it. As individuals we might even feel the same about some laws. But in totality, the rule of, law and not by law is the foundation of our society, because its benefits are immense and usually taken for granted.
- hermitcrab 1y ago"To my friends, everything; to my enemies, the law"
- DrillShopper 1y ago[flagged]
- ChrisArchitect 1y agoRelated story in The Crimson: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/5/23/trump-admin-revokes-sevp/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/5/23/trump-admin-rev...
- Braxton1980 1y agoI get flak for hating Republican voters with the general feeling of most people being that voters are not responsible for the officials THEY elected to represent them. I still haven't found a valid argument for why a voter isn't held responsible for the actions of representatives. Especially if the actions would be likely to occur.
- Aperocky 1y agoAre they not?
- Boogie_Man 1y agoIn what way would you like to hold them responsible? If there are reprisals for voting, do we live in a liberal democracy? Edit: If by "hold responsible" you mean "be mad at them" then yes, of course you can, I can't read a comment section that isn't mostly that, and you knew that before making this comment.
- ceejayoz 1y ago> In what way would you like to hold them responsible? Being shamed into a little introspection wouldn't hurt.
- firesteelrain 1y agoThis goes both ways.
- Braxton1980 1y agoWhy would you feel the need to state this? Obviously it would and it should. If Trump was a Democrat and the same situation was occurring then Democrat voters should be called out
- firesteelrain 1y ago[flagged]
- tantalor 1y agoTRO in 5, 4, 3...
- cosmicgadget 1y agoYeah this seems like it'll follow the script of the AP and Perkins Coïe.
- tantalor 1y agoBlocked in only 20 hours! Judge blocks Trump administration from revoking Harvard enrollment of foreign students https://www.reuters.com/world/us/harvard-sues-trump-administration-blocking-enrollment-foreign-students-2025-05-23/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/harvard-sues-trump-administ... The TRO: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.285083/gov.uscourts.mad.285083.11.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.285...
- insane_dreamer 1y agoIt's not just enrolling new students: > In a news release, the Department of Homeland Security sent a stark message to Harvard’s international students: “This means Harvard can no longer enroll foreign students, and existing foreign students must transfer or lose their legal status.” So DHS revoked the visas for all existing students at Harvard? That doesn't seem quite possible? Doesn't give them a timeline either. The best and the brightest from around the world will prioritize top universities at other countries, and this will damage one of the US' biggest attractions and advantages. Unbelievable.
- busyant 1y agoThey didn't revoke the visas. They revoked Harvard's ability to enroll foreign students. I mean ... it's still nuts, but slightly different. Instead of breaking the "keys" (visas) that unlock the doors to Harvard, they're just putting glue in the locks.
- apercu 1y agoIf you voted for this admin, please go get your own flag and give me mine back.
- boothby 1y agoCareful what you wish for, the last change to the US flag appears to have been accomplished through an executive order. If isn't a red field with a gold T in the middle come July, I'll be moderately surprised. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/proclamation-3351-flag-day-1960 https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/proclamation-3351-...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- periodjet 1y ago[flagged]
- mcphage 1y agoI noticed that you didn't share any possible positive aspects, either.
- emptyfile 1y agoCare to mention one?
- miffel 1y agoWell if it was a decision made by Harvard after serious deliberation and years of prep one could try to argue in good faith about the possible positive effects. Since this seems to be retaliation by the current admin due to Harvard's resistance to turning over vast amounts of records on intl. students... I think people are being less optimistic. I am curious, what do you think is beneficial about this? Please feel free to offer your perspective as well.
- vaidhy 1y agoMaybe they think Harvard will replace international students with american ones? Poor foreign workers are taking away our jobs, and rich foreign students are taking away our education argument??
- miffel 1y agoI almost preempted this argument in my comment! You are raising what I believe will be the spin for a lot of people. Ultimately I'll just say that intl. students enrich the intellectual experience and breadth within Harvard, for all students. But somehow I think that argument will fall flat for the people who are already trying to find justifications for this move.
- periodjet 1y agoHarvard has been extraordinarily badly-behaved for decades. The state is applying what pressure it can to force the Harvard administrators to reconsider such behavior. I fail to see what’s so revolting about such a strategy.
- neilv 1y agoCan someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For example, getting things done with prestige connections, domestically and internationally. And the international diplomatic goodwill, when children of the world's wealthy and powerful go to prestigious schools in the US.) Is some other faction at work now, or is it the same people as before? Are the power networks changing? If the distribution of power is changing, is it partly due to someone willing to sacrifice national power from which all parties benefited (and everyone else wasn't expecting that, or wasn't ready to defend against that from within)? Better questions?
- philistine 1y agoYou're overthinking this. The university is vocal about keeping its independence. That's enough to warrant retaliation from this president.
- Alupis 1y agoOr, perhaps more simply, the days of the "Good Ol' Boys" who all went to the same power school and use that as a way to influence politics are over? I'm reminded of the infamous George Carlin bit "It's a big club, and you ain’t in it"[1]. Maybe not anymore... and that's a most likely a good thing. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/964648-but-there-s-a-reason-there-s-a-reason-there-s-a-reason https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/964648-but-there-s-a-reason...
- josefritzishere 1y agoI find Trump's behavior to be incoherent. In some quarters he's virtually an anarcho-capitalist. In others, like this, he's anti-capitalist, intensely regulating a private business for no actual benefit.
- Rapzid 1y agoTrump honest to God thought the literal letters "MS13" were tattooed on that guy's hands and Terry Morgan was gaslighting him.. I don't think Trump is really running the show here.
- dudinax 1y agoBecause he's not either of those things. He's a self serving tyrant. He has no philosophy of governing the state because he doesn't care about governing the state.
- davesque 1y agoI wish more people would realize this. There is no plan behind what he is doing. The only thing that guides him is his psychopathic impulse to do harm.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y agoThere is no coherent ideology. Only what he thinks is good for him at the present moment, which may in some cases be influenced by the most recent person he spoke with.
- cosmicgadget 1y agoHe doesn't conform to a political ideology, everything he does is for personal benefit/gratification and punishing his enemies. In this case Harvard didn't capitulate to his oversight demands.
- jleyank 1y agoWhat will the HN crowd do when Y Combinator's banned from foreign participants?
- anonymousDan 1y agoAs if the powers that be at YCombinator wouldn't roll over for Trump like all the other tech quislings.
- criddell 1y agoWould you characterize Harvard as rolling over for Trump?
- anonymousDan 1y agoNo, the opposite!
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- fzeroracer 1y agoThe HN crowd here? A mixture of 'I told you so' posts, some fascists posting with glee that their perceived enemies are getting kicked in the knees and probably a few centrists desperately still trying to find a way to spin it in a positive manner. The people running Y Combinator? They'll donate a few million to the Trump fund, maybe donate a jet or two and hope that gets him to stop for a little bit while claiming this 'isn't what we stand for' and 'i can't believe this happened (to us)'. Make no mistake, they have no problem with these decisions until it has direct and material impact on them. That's why they invite the people directly responsible for this to their AI Startup school and give them privileged speaking opportunities. They don't care nor do they think that far into the future. Hell, you can go to the AI startup school page now and see them sharing the AI Ghibli shit [1] [1] https://events.ycombinator.com/ai-sus https://events.ycombinator.com/ai-sus
- inverted_flag 1y agoRemember when Trump said you should get a green card with your diploma? Wasn't even a year ago: https://x.com/DKThomp/status/1925631602589151325#m https://x.com/DKThomp/status/1925631602589151325#m
- platevoltage 1y agoI do find it kind of absurd that we invite people to come study in the USA, let them work on a visa at our corporations to gain experience, and then send them home.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- bananapub 1y agothat's underselling it - they're also making it so every single existing interrnational student has to leave the US very soon, and in the meantime can be kidnapped by ICE.
- TrackerFF 1y agoThey can (try and) transfer to another college / university. But, I suspect, if suddenly all international students transferred to MIT, the administration would simply do the same to MIT. So it would become one big game of whack-a-mole, and the smaller players would just bend over to the rules. International students are cash cows for some institutions. They wouldn't dare to have that cow put down.
- decimalenough 1y agoThe Trump administration is not targeting the students, they're targeting Harvard. The students are collateral damage. So transferring to another college will be fine as long as they pick one that has already kowtowed to Trump. And have never posted to social media or taken any action that could be construed as opposition to the policies of the Dear Leader.
- dragonwriter 1y ago> The Trump administration is not targeting the students, they're targeting Harvard. The Trump Administration is targeting Harvard, foreign students (and foreigners, especially non-White foreigners, generally), free speech, due process, limited government, and constraints on executive power, and a whole bunch of other things simultaneously. "It's this, not that" is the wrong mental model. It is more like, everything, everywhere, all at once.
- bananapub 1y ago[flagged]
- Loughla 1y agoThe problem is your argument expects them to be arguing in good faith. Which they are not doing.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- legitster 1y agoAnyone who thinks they are immune or on the "good side" of this political movement is naive. Harvard has cranked out plenty of powerful conservatives, but it doesn't matter because their "crime" is that they have hurt the current administration's feelings. This is going well beyond one party winning - this is a cult of personality. History is repeating itself as a farce. It's not wild speculation to guess what might happen if these actions continue unchecked. It's education now, but it will be lawyers and judges next, and after that it will be leaders of tech and business. Anyone who brokers power.
- edaemon 1y agoTo illustrate your point, three of the current justices on the Supreme Court earned their law degree from Harvard: Jackson, Gorsuch, and (Chief Justice) Roberts.
- callc 1y ago> It's education now, but it will be lawyers and judges next It already is this. Their attack on the judicial branch is the most frightening IMO, since it is directly attacking checks and balances.
- bamboozled 1y agoIt's already been lawyers and judges, not going great...
- mounram 1y ago[flagged]
- angrytechie 1y agoAs always, a reminder that this administration has Silicon Valley money and people up and down its roster. The founders should refuse to take money from the VCs that support this regime, and the engineers should refuse to work for portfolio companies. Things will change quite rapidly if that becomes the norm.
- zionist 1y ago[flagged]
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- baggle 1y ago[flagged]
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago> student records that can be used to determine if a student visa holder has violated their visa What do they need from Harvard to determine if an individual has violated their visa? Does the administration not have a list of students on a visa? (Surely they do, given that's their job.) Do they not have evidence of a crime? (Surely they do, otherwise there's no problem. But also apparently not, because they'd just use that.) What's missing?
- dragonwriter 1y ago"What do they need from Harvard to determine if an individual has violated their visa?" Because the administration has chosen to include define a range of activity which is not obvious from other sources as incompatible with visa status, including membership in certain student organizations. > Do they not have evidence of a crime? "Crime" is not the issue, and, no, they don't, that's the problem -- they want information from Harvard with no basis other than the fact that students are on a visa, so that they can use it for fishing expeditions for excuses to deny visa status.
- tick_tock_tick 1y ago> What do they need from Harvard to determine if an individual has violated their visa? Does the administration not have a list of students on a visa? (Surely they do, given that's their job.) Do they not have evidence of a crime? (Surely they do, otherwise there's no problem. But also apparently not, because they'd just use that.) What's missing? None of that really matter Harvard is required to report this data to maintain good standing in the Student and Exchange Visitor Program. Failure to do so can result to removal from the program and as such the ability to bring people in on student visas. That is the path they are attacking. Harvard has also been very public about it's refusable to comply with the legal requirements of the program so it's a pretty slam dunk case. I think Harvard just didn't think the administration would actually follow through.
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- ReptileMan 1y agoTrump was elected roughly on 3 issues - economy, immigration and culture war. So he has to deliver at least on two to have meaningful legacy. Because of the idiocy around tariffs - the economy at the midterms will be at best slightly above where he got it. So it leaves immigration and culture war. The border crossings are way down - so halfway there, but deporting meaningful numbers will be hard. Which means that he must deliver on the third issue big. So probably he will continue to bash the soft targets and the institutions that are perceived to be left leaning.
- jmclnx 1y agoNo :) The 3 issues are 1. Racism 2. Racism 3. Racism
- ReptileMan 1y agohttps://www.liberalpatriot.com/p/the-decline-of-the-democratic-coalition https://www.liberalpatriot.com/p/the-decline-of-the-democrat... If you are right - then it seems that racism is quite broadly popular among all ethnic groups in USA because Trump made inroads with everyone.
- LadyCailin 1y agoYeah, cause he lied to them, and they believed it. Now that his actions are speaking and not his bloviating, his support is eroding. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5271036-trump-approval-hispanic-voters-poll/ https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5271036-trump-ap...
- algorias 1y ago[flagged]
- suzzer99 1y agoYou're right, xenophobia and transphobia is more accurate than racism. See every Trump campaign commercial in the last few months of the race.
- ithkuil 1y agoThe us government, using the appropriate mechanism like passing laws etc, can change the policies like they see fit. However I don't understand how it's possible to single out a specific university. Are there precedents for this kind of behaviour?
- lobsterthief 1y agoNo; it’s illegal but he controls the justice department and is attempting to silence the courts. He’s singling them out because they refused to bend the knee. This is not okay. And it is not normal.
- cosmicgadget 1y agoIt's called a bill of attainder and it's prohibited by the Constitution. Courts have said this also applies to executive orders though it's not as crystal clear. He's already done this to the Associated Press for ignoring his stupid Gulf of Mexico rename as well as to several law firms for representing democrats.
- hdhxgsc 1y agoBill of attainder is a legislative action. Doesn’t apply to the executive branch.
- NewJazz 1y agoThe commenter literally stated that it has been applied to executive orders by courts
- mbs159 1y ago> it's prohibited by the Constitution Even if it is illegal, does not mean that anybody will actually do anything about it beside challenging the administration in court and giving them a slap on the wrist at best.
- nitwit005 1y agoYou seem to be assuming they're following the law. The Trump admin hasn't exactly been winning in court.
- woggy 1y agoI don't see the US surviving the Trump administration.
- Spivak 1y agoWe basically get two chances if you want to follow the normal procedure. Swing congress during the midterms and lock him up for the remainder of his term and or elect a democrat in four years who will tear up the stack of executive orders and make the rounds apologizing to everyone.
- cosmicgadget 1y agoWe won't even get those chances if either Roberts or Barrett roll over.
- input_sh 1y agoThere are many autocrats around the world, look up what happened to free elections after they came into power. Spoiler alert: they quickly deteriorate and the next 3-4 cycles become far less free than the election cycle that put them into power.
- anigbrowl 1y agoI mean both of those options (minus the locking up) were tried last time. Even if Democrats were to win elections as described, another round of apologies and saying nice things about institutionalism is not going to cut. I felt pretty sure Trump had a good chance of being re-elected from 2022 onward, Democrats simply didn't want to believe that a large part of the electorate are assholes or that they would need to change up their policy/electoral/comms game. Some of them still don't want to believe it.
- kurtis_reed 1y agoOh please
- woggy 1y agoI think you have your head in the sand. This Harvard thing is just one example. Just saw a report this morning (Aus time) of an Australian detained, stripped, and held overnight in a US federal prison. She was just coming in to visit her husband. Who the hell will want to come to the US now? You are going to suffer a massive reverse brain drain. You got a 30% tariff tax, kidnapping of random people off the street including US citizens, blatant and overwhelming corruption at the highest levels, weaponizing of government to target people, institutions and private companies. Good luck in the midterm 'elections'.
- gosub100 1y ago[flagged]
- beardyw 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- input_sh 1y agoEven more specific: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment
- jorblumesea 1y agoneo-fascism because eggs were expensive, nice job American voters.
- jaoane 1y agoIt's not surprising that people chose being able to afford food over intellectualism.
- GuinansEyebrows 1y agoit's hard to tell if you're acknowledging the false dichotomy, or advocating for one side of it.
- jorblumesea 1y agoAmericans can afford food. We are nowhere close to 19th century french peasant levels of problems. Imagine throwing 300 years of democracy and tradition out the window because food prices went up 30%. It went up all over the world but America is the only place that is actively throwing bricks through our own windows. reads more like a childish temper tantrum than any coherent political move.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Rapzid 1y agoAnd when Harvard sues the administration will call on the over 1 billion in pro-bono "fighting antisemitism" legal work they extorted from the nations largest law firms.
- howard941 1y agoAnother day, different shit. This is what flooding the zone means.
- lenerdenator 1y agoIn a fight between two morally dubious parties, why can't both lose? And yes, Harvard is absolutely a morally dubious institution. Less morally dubious than Trump's movement is, but still.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- markvdb 1y agoWouldn't it be easier for Harvard to move to where it can function as a university, instead of putting up with this? It's not entirely unprecedented. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_University .
- barbarr 1y agoThis might not be a bad idea. Setting up satellite institutions in other countries as backup, for example.
- jachee 1y agoUpdated archive: https://archive.ph/UxKGi https://archive.ph/UxKGi
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- guywithahat 1y ago[flagged]
- magicalist 1y ago> They should just end their DEI programs and comply with federal law, it's literally that simple. Columbia tried to comply with their made up "federal law" requirements to try to get their funding restored and instead got more cut, so...
- guywithahat 1y agoIf they had complied with federal law they would have had their funding restored, it was because they acted illegally so explicitly that it was an issue.
- platevoltage 1y agowoof
- gigatexal 1y agoTrump: I’m dumb and want to make everyone else dumb too so I can be the smartest among the dumb dumbs. I know! I’ll prevent the best and brightest from abroad who pay full tuition to attend the best American universities because I’m a xenophobe. I’m so smart! MAGA destroying universities smh.
- RhysU 1y agoDoes Harvard now start accepting individuals from the domestic student waitlist?
- geodel 1y agoYeah, now it is time to admit those "poor, persecuted Asian Americans"
- nateburke 1y agoBaron is at NYU, Malia got the big envelope...
- dathinab 1y agothis is so absurd authoritarian the core of free speech isn't if you can insult officers or similar in the larger picture irrelevant things, but the freedom of teaching, education, books etc. And freedom doesn't just means "its theoretical possible" but the absence of suppression, retaliatory actions and similar
- djoldman 1y agoI was curious how this could legally be done. It's through this: https://studyinthestates.dhs.gov/schools/apply/getting-started-with-sevp-certification https://studyinthestates.dhs.gov/schools/apply/getting-start... As far as I can tell, the headlines are not quite accurate. From my reading, a more accurate description would be that one cannot obtain a student visa to go to Harvard. So presumably, if someone could acquire legal residence in another way, they would be free to attend Harvard.
- throwaway219450 1y agoYes ish, see my other comment. Foreign students normally enter via a non-immigrant visa (F1), or rather they are eligible to apply for that visa at an embassy, if a registered sponsor supports it. The visa permits a request for entry into the country for the purpose of study (at a port of entry). The most important document that you need day to day is a DS-2019 and you must remain "in F1 status" in the SEVIS system for the duration of your program. If you don't leave the US, you don't need another visa even if your original one expires, the university can issue you a new DS-2019 annually until your end-of-program date. That's up to 5 years dependent on the category. If you leave after your visa expires you have to renew it out of the country, which is normally straightforward (using the dropbox system). The government has not prevented foreign people from studying or working at Harvard, they have withdrawn their ability to maintain status while at Harvard. Hence why they can transfer to another institution.
- djoldman 1y agoAh thanks, that makes sense. It's a pretty weird system.
- throwaway219450 1y agoYou can view the DS-2019 as more like a work permit. The visa lets you leave and re-enter the country. Some European countries work in a comparable way where you don't need a visa at all (depending where you're from), but you can't stay unless you have a valid work permit.
- sgnelson 1y agoThis is Fascism. With a Capital F.
- arunabha 1y agoThe truly depressing thing is, a lot of people are actually happy about this action. How did things get so bad, so quickly? People who lived under authoritarian regimes have long said that things move slowly at first, but after an inflection point, get real bad, real fast. It's one thing to understand that intellectually, quite another to witness it first hand. Hopefully, the judiciary will block this particular madness, but then again, given the concerted effort over the past decade by Republicans to appoint right wing judges, the odds are not that great.
- tstrimple 1y ago> How did things get so bad, so quickly? It didn't. Conservatives in this country have explicitly been headed this direction since they decided to never let another Nixon happen. Not that they would prevent another criminal Republican. But they would ensure that Republicans are never punished for behavior like this. It led to Fox News and Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh and Tucker Carlson, etc. The writing has been on the wall in plain sight for everyone to see for literally decades. The people who have been pointing it out and stating this is exactly where the country has been headed are called radicals and casually dismissed. The only reason Romney lost is because he didn't lean into the hatred his base was demanding[1]. Trump delivered what they wanted. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/romney-corrects-woman-who-called-obama-monster/325723/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/romney-...
- consumer451 1y agoI believe that this is entirely the correct answer. If anyone has any counterarguments, I would genuinely love to read them.
- intended 1y agoI dont, and instead would build on this argument further. There is no political winning, at any time in the future, unless the structural issue with information and news ecosystems is dealt with. The best evidence I have seen, shows that news consumption on the right in America is sealed, and has no traffic with the center or left. There is no future for ANY liberal democracy, if there is no fair debate between its citizenry. We aren’t even fighting for the table stakes of informed citizenry, but we are talking about the scraps of not debating fantasy. This isn’t even about misinformation; the total consumption of misinformation as a portion of total content can only shift so much, given the number of hours in a day. It’s not the production of more misinformation which matters - it is the championing of misinformation by leaders that makes it a ‘fact’. This then decides the talking points for debates. The side which has to do research that requires interrogating reality - slower, probabilistic, uncertain processes - is inefficient when competing with a party that can create facts. The reason that the Stanford Internet Observatory and other content moderation arms are being targeted, is because for all their warts and issues, these teams were trying to ensure a fair market place of ideas, and as a result ended up slowing the spread of narratives on the right. Or potential new recruits.
- j_timberlake 1y agoAcademia let itself get too political these last 10 years and deserved some kind of reckoning for it, yet somehow this manages to be so shameless that it makes academia look like the good guys standing up to an oppressive regime. Which means Harvard leadership actually has more reputation to gain by fighting this than by backing down, very similar to all those tariffed countries.
- platevoltage 1y agoSo academia being political was a bad thing, but now it's a good thing. How does that make any sense?
- j_timberlake 1y agoI didn't say that, why would you think I said that?
- a_subsystem 1y ago[flagged]
- gverrilla 1y agoFascists.
- snvzz 1y agoReminder every international student that attends Harvard is a national one that cannot. Trump is simply saying let's focus on our own people.
- platevoltage 1y agoIf that was the case, this would be applied to every university. You can't be that naive to believe Trump wants to focus on our own people given how he's ravaged social safety nets.
- hollerith 1y agoWhat social safety net has he ravaged and how? Please remind me.
- platevoltage 1y agoI probably should correct my tenses. I was referring to his "Big Beautiful Bill.", which only a Republican controlled senate stands in the way of.
- hollerith 1y agoThanks. I see that the bill tightens the criteria for getting Medicaid.
- const_cast 1y agoThat's... one incredibly generous way to say that. In actuality, it cuts Medicaid for a lot of hard working American tax payers.
- Ylpertnodi 1y agoI'd like to ask: what are 'your own people' doing, by studying in foreign universities? Should they be regarded as traitors? Reminder: every US international student that attends a foreign university is buying croissants and not squeezy-cheeze.
- remarkEon 1y agoCtrl + F "Yarvin" only returns one comment. Kind of surprised, neutering Harvard's power has been one of that guy's main objectives for what feels like, well, forever at this point. He finally has his man.
- causal 1y agoI've tried to avoid going down that rabbit hole but I'm curious, why has that been such a big objective for Yarvin?
- remarkEon 1y agoI haven't read everything he's written (who has?) but my take on the literature tells me Harvard is a stand-in for his "Cathedral", and so degrading its power and influence would be a worthy goal for his political project. Take that with a grain of salt, it's been a few years since I actually engaged with what he writes. Though, I should probably try again since NYT did interview him recently. His style is just hard to deal with. It's like Rushdie, in a way, where you need a deep understanding of whatever it is he's talking about for the metaphors to make sense. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/magazine/curtis-yarvin-interview.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/magazine/curtis-yarvin-in...
- lizardking 1y agoHe's patiently waiting for his tanks in Harvard Yard.
- harvard1 1y agoHarvard is a hedge fund. Hopefully they'll be more honest about it going forward as their university activities get more restricted - they won't be worse for wear.
- Slava_Propanei 1y ago[dead]
- NoImmatureAdHom 1y agoI worked there for years, still spend a lot of time there, and therefore know a lot of people who either are or were there. Many people associated with the University are pretty happy about it getting smacked down. Shameless, wrong, and overtly illegal discrimination on the basis of race, sex, and creed, suppression of free speech, even the compelling of speech have all been de rigeur for Harvard for the past decade. I just wish they would use a scalpel rather than a sledge hammer. The University (and many other universities) has been engaging in overtly illegal discrimination on the basis of sex, race, and creed in hiring, grants, and I'm sure many other areas. There were many job postings where the CVs of white men were never looked at, because of their skin color and sex. There were many grant-funded opportunities (often federally-funded) where a white man, or a man, or a straight person would not have a chance because of those characteristics. Oh, and I should mention "diversity statements", now called "belonging statements". These are political tests: regardless of your skin color and genitals, if you don't sing the right political song you have no chance. This was a first line assessment at many places (e.g., UC Berkeley). This was all overt in that it was openly talked about, people would send emails to the effect "this job opening must go to a brown woman", etc. People generally, somehow, even Americans, didn't understand it was illegal. I would be greeted with quizzical looks if I enlightened them! (in casual conversation, of course, never officially!). This is all for hiring and similar. Students are different, and since the end of affirmative action Harvard has still been doing everything it can to continue discriminating against e.g. East Asians and Whites, which is of course illegal. You risked losing your job for expressing an uncool belief (e.g., Carole Hooven: https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2024/02/15/carole-hooven-wh https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2024/02/15/carole-hooven-wh...). Of course, they will try to force you to resign before actually firing you, which would leave open the possibility of legal problems. This may be a sort of "why not, it's a small thing, just say it" to a chemist, but to an endocrinologist or social scientist it can be intolerable. Compelled speech was on the table, too, which is a bright line we have so far, as a society, have managed not to cross. Harvard and other elite universities were crossing it, and the Biden admin's Title IX rules overtly crossed it (by forcing you to use someone's preferred pronouns). A bad look, to put it mildly.
- insane_dreamer 1y agoThey are not at all comparable. Previous admins didn't withhold billions in funding that was already granted, threaten 25% of its student body with expulsion, and try to take away its tax status.
- RickJWagner 1y agoWhat could be in the records that Harvard doesn’t want to share?
- tim333 1y agoI was curious why they are attacking Harvard. I'm a Brit so not very up on US stuff. Googling came up with: >The right-wing conspiracy behind Trump’s war on Harvard >Back in 2021, far-right blogger Curtis Yarvin, who supports abolishing American democracy and replacing it with a dictatorship... >...“the real power centers” in the US — the elite media and academic institutions exemplified by “Harvard and the New York Times” — would fight back. >“That’s right,” Yarvin agreed. “That’s why, basically, you can’t continue to have a Harvard or a New York Times past the start of April.” https://www.vox.com/politics/409600/trump-harvard-rufo-yarvin-grants-nonprofit-tax-exempt https://www.vox.com/politics/409600/trump-harvard-rufo-yarvi... Not sure if that is what's behind it?
- graycat 1y ago> Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students Sounds catastrophic! Ah, at no risk are the books and papers, the famous research professors, and their late grad students, and apparently in simple terms (except for just money), that's about all such a university cares about. So, not much of a catastrophe! Only partially sarcastic!
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- Slava_Propanei 1y ago[dead]