17 ms·

Google AI Ultra

320 points by mfiguiere 1y ago

droideqa 1y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
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codydkdc 1y ago
I really want Google to launch a Claude Code/OpenAI Codex CLI alternative. also if they included a small VM in one of these subscriptions I'd seriously consider it!
- boole1854 1y ago
  They are working on it: https://jules.google/ https://jules.google/
  - unshavedyak 1y ago
    I got the feeling Jules was targeted at Web (ala Github) PR workflows. Is it not? The Claude Code UX is nice imo, but i didn't get the impression Jules is that.
    - kridsdale1 1y ago
      At Google, our PR flow and editing is all done in web based tools. Except for the nerds who like vi.
      - codydkdc 1y ago
        people don't use local editors? it's weird to lock people into workflows like that
      - johnisgood 1y ago
        Damn... you guys don't use proper text editors?
- incognito124 1y ago
  https://firebase.studio/ https://firebase.studio/
  - arresin 1y ago
    It’s absolutely garbage. I was annoyed because there’s a lot of hype on Reddit.
bhhaskin 1y ago
[flagged]
- Analemma_ 1y ago
  OAI and Anthropic both have $200/mo. subscriptions and claim they have a bunch of paying customers; it seems to be a thing people want.
  - jsheard 1y ago
    And Altman said their $200/mo plan still ultimately loses them money, so expect the level of service you get for that amount to eventually go down, and even more expensive subscriptions to slot in above.
    - unshavedyak 1y ago
      > so expect the level of service you get for that amount to eventually go down Yea that's my big problem with expensive subscriptions. If i buy 2.5 Pro today who knows what i'll be in a month.
- deleted 1y ago
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johnmlussier 1y ago
I’m not interested in about 75% of this offering. Really wish they had pieced this out or done a credit system for it all. I want higher coding and LLM limits, Deep Think, and would like to try agent stuff, but don’t care at all about image or video generation, Notebook limits, YouTube Premium, or more storage. $250 is a the highest cost AI sub now. Not loving this direction.
- camillomiller 1y ago
  What other direction would you expect to be possible? Even with this rates most AI companies are still bleeding money.
  - piskov 1y ago
    If anyone it’s Google that would be very-very inference efficient (given their custom TPUs and what have you). However if all this power is wasted on video generation, then even them probably will choke. Then again, I guess your average Joe/Jane will looove to generate some 10 seconds of you daily whatsapp stuff to share.
  - karmakurtisaani 1y ago
    I wonder how long this free access to LLMs can continue. It's like early days of Facebook, before the ads and political interference started to happen. The question is, when will we see the enshittification of LLMs?
    - camillomiller 1y ago
      Exactly. When Masayoshi Son’s money will run out I guess.
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  I'm assuming their will be an ala carte API offer too.
- causal 1y ago
  Yeah it says "designed for coding" but it's missing the one thing programmers need which is just higher Gemini API usage limits.
lallysingh 1y ago
$250 a month. Oh my.
- akomtu 1y ago
  "Rent a brain for only $250/mo"
  - croes 1y ago
    Rent a hallucinating brain
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  About an hour of a senior developer's fully-loaded cost.
  - paxys 1y ago
    And less than an hour of an external consultant's time.
  - throwaway2037 1y ago
    To be clear, 8hrs/day, 40hrs/week, 50weeks/year is about 2,000 hours. Are you really saying that "senior developers" make 250USD * 2,000 = 500K USD? 250K is more like it, and only in very high cost locations -- Silicon Valley or NYC. More like 150K in rich countries, but not the richest city. Hell, 100K EUR can get you some very good developers on the European continent.
    - hollerith 1y ago
      In the US, the salary is only about half the cost of an employee: the rest is taxes, cost of benefits like health care, etc.
      - throwaway2037 1y ago
        I believe it for normies making 60-80k, but not elite level devs making 250k+.
piskov 1y ago
Given the lack of comments after an hour passed, we have a strong case of maybe five Google AI Ultra subscribers worldwide. I, personally, try to stay as far as possible from google: Kagi for search, Brave for browsing (Firefox previously), Pro on OpenAI, etc. We’ll see how fair OpenAI will be with tracking and what have you (given “off” for improve for everyone), but Google? Nah.
- rohansood15 1y ago
  "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
  - sunaookami 1y ago
    This is an urban legend btw, Thomas Watson never said that.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
__natty__ 1y ago
> YouTube Premium: An individual YouTube Premium plan lets you watch YouTube and listen to YouTube Music ad-free, offline and in the background. It seems weird to me, they included entertainment service in „work” related plan.
- jihadjihad 1y ago
  They don't even have the decency to make it a family plan, either.
  - Aeolun 1y ago
    The whole family can get it for only $996/month
- dewey 1y ago
  It's not though, it's just the highest tier of the regular "Google One" account that also has Google Photos etc. included.
- kumarm 1y ago
  So everyone who want Youtube Premium can explain to their boss why they need Gemini AI Ultra for work?
Keyframe 1y ago
Hmm, interesting. There's basically no information what makes Ultra worth that much money in concrete terms except "more quota". One interesting tidbid I've noticed is that it seems Google One (or what is it called now) also carries sub for youtube. So far, I'm still on "old" Google One for my family and myself storage and have a separate youtube subscription for the same. I still haven't seen a clear upgrade path, or even a discount based on how much I have left from the old subscription, if I ever choose to do so (why?). edit: also google AI Ultra links leads to AI Pro and there's no Ultra to choose from. GG Google, as always with their "launches".
- flakiness 1y ago
  I believe Imagen 4 and Veo 3 (the newest image/video models) and the "deep think" variant are for Ultra only. (Is it worth it? It's a different question.)
  - skybrian 1y ago
    I just tried it and Whisk seems to be using Imagen 4 and and Veo 2 when used without a subscription.
ComplexSystems 1y ago
The problem with all of these is that SOTA models keep changing. I thought about getting OpenAI's Pro subscription, and then Gemini flew ahead and was free. If I get this then sooner or later OpenAI or Anthropic will be back on top.
- pc86 1y ago
  I am willing to pay for up to 2 models at a time but I am constantly swapping subscriptions around. I think I'd started and cancelled GPT and Claude subscriptions at least 3-4 times each.
- SirensOfTitan 1y ago
  This is even the case with Gemini: The Gemini 2.5 Pro 05/06 release by Google’s own reported benchmarks was worse in 10/12 cases than the 3/25 version. Google re routed all traffic for the 3/25 checkpoint to the 05/06 version in the API. I’m also unsure who needs all of these expanded quotas because the old Gemini subscription had higher quotas than I could ever anticipate using.
  - magicalist 1y ago
    > I’m also unsure who needs all of these expanded quotas because the old Gemini subscription had higher quotas than I could ever anticipate using. "Google AI Ultra" is a consumer offering though, there's no API to have quotas for?
  - MisterPea 1y ago
    I'm afraid they're going to lower the limits once Ultra is available. I use Gemini Pro everyday for at least 2 hours but never hit the limit
    - tmpz22 1y ago
      I have the same concerns. To push people to the ultra tier and get their bonuses their going to use dark patterns. The only reason I maintain Claude and OpenAi subscriptions is because I expect Google to pull the rug on what has been their competitive advantage since Gemini 2.5. Have you also noticed a degradation in quality over long chat sessions? I've noticed it in NotebookLM specifically, but not Gemini 2.5. I anticipate this to become the standard, your chat degrades subtly over time.
smeeth 1y ago
I hate hate hate putting Deep Think behind a paywall. It's an ease-of-use tax. I fully expect to be able to get it over API through Poe or similar for way cheaper. Just have usage limit tiers!
lvl155 1y ago
Google is a bit tone deaf with these offerings. Are they interested in competing?
vFunct 1y ago
Does this include Gemini 2.5 Pro API access? What are the API limits? I blew through my $40 monthly fee in Github Copilot Pro+ in a few hours. =^/
Workaccount2 1y ago
I suspect Google sees the writing on the wall, and needs to move to a more subscription based business model. I don't think the ad model of the internet is dead, but I also don't think it was particularly successful. People block ads rather than forgo those services, ads conditioned people to think everything on the internet is free, and the actual monetization of ad views makes people pretty uncomfortable. So here we are, with Google now wading into the waters of subscriptions. It's a good sign for those who are worried about AI manipulating them to buy things, and a bad sign for those who like the ad model. Is the future going to be everyone has an AI plan, just like a phone plan, or internet plan, that they shell out $30-$300/mo to use? I honestly would greatly prefer it if it meant privacy, but many people seem to greatly prefer the ad-model or ad-subsidized model. ETA: Subscription with ads is ad-subsidized. You pay less but watch more ads.
- aceazzameen 1y ago
  It will eventually be subscriptions PLUS ads combined.
  - continuational 1y ago
    YouTube is probably the most expensive streaming app, and there are still ads (sponsored sections) in nearly every video.
    - tintor 1y ago
      Sponsored sections are baked into video and very easy to skip. Unlike platform ads which disable video control while the ad is playing.
    - jeffbee 1y ago
      Cannot find any factual basis for the claim that YTP is the most expensive streaming app. Is this the case in some non-US market?
    - jerjerjer 1y ago
      > ads (sponsored sections) in nearly every video. SponsorBlock for YouTube resolves the issue.
kleiba 1y ago
These prices are nuts, in my opinion. It basically means that only companies can afford access to the latest offerings - this used to be the case for specialist software in the past (e.g., in the medical sector), but AI has the potential to be useful for anyone. Not a good development.
- esafak 1y ago
  And I think it is a good thing. If there are buyers, it means they are getting that much value out of it. That there is a market for it. Competition will bring prices down.
  - mschuster91 1y ago
    > Competition will do its thing and bring prices down. It won't. For now the AI "market" is artificially distorted by billionaires and trillion-dollar companies dumping insane amount of cash into NVDA, but when the money spigot dries out (which it inevitably will) prices are going to skyrocket and stay there for a loooong time.
    - esafak 1y ago
      How will prices skyrocket when there is a flood of open models? Or are you talking about GPU prices? They're already high.
      - jsheard 1y ago
        Who do you think is paying to train those open models? The notable ones are all released by VC-funded startups or gigacorps which are losing staggering amounts of money to make each new release happen. If nobody is making a profit from closed models then what hope do the companies releasing open models have when the money spigot runs dry? The open models which have already been released can't be taken back now of course, but it would be foolish to assume that SOTA freebies will keep coming forever.
        1y ago
Calwestjobs 1y ago
Magics ! I do not know what that hate about 250 $ is, just flow is worth more.
- leoh 1y ago
  I would agree, were I to use flow frequently; but I would guess it’s the most operationally expensive API for Google and they may be subsidizing it (and profit in general) via users that don’t use it (ie software developers).
AJRF 1y ago
Would love to know how many people end up on this plan. If i had to guess, looking at the features I would have guessed 80 bucks. Absurdly high, but lots of little doodads and prototypes would make the price understandable at that price. 250?! I actually find that price worrying because it points to a degree of unsustainability in the economics of the products weve gotten used to.
- jeffbee 1y ago
  The long-standing Google One plan with 30TB of storage was already $150/mo, so your estimate was a bit low.
blagie 1y ago
I'm holding out for "Ultra Max Pro." (Comment is on the horrible naming; good naming schemes plan ahead for next month's offerings)
- kylehotchkiss 1y ago
  Somehow, someway you’re gonna need a Dell or Apple Ultra Edition to use it.
ivape 1y ago
Is this the only price to get Google Flow at? Any alternatives? That seemms like the killer app here.
adverbly 1y ago
Price point here is a bit too high... They have bundled so many things together into this that the sticker shock on the price is too much. I get what they're trying to do but if they were serious about this they would include some other small subscriptions as well... I should get some number of free movies on YouTube per month, I should be able to cancel a bunch of my other subscriptions... I should get free data with this or a free phone or something... I could see some value if I could actually just have one subscription but I'm not going to spend $250 a month on just another subscription to add to the pile...
- ehsankia 1y ago
  They put anything that makes sense. I don't know if including random movies makes sense. They got Youtube Premium which is like 15$. 30TB of storage, a bit excessive and no equivalent but 20TB is around 100$ a month.
  - highwaylights 1y ago
    I’m not seeing the relevance of YouTube and the One services to this at all. I get that Big Tech loves to try to pull you into their orbit whenever you use one of their services, but this risks alienating customers who won’t use those unrelated services and may begrudge Google making them pay for them.
    - j_maffe 1y ago
      Idk if anyone will see these offerings more than just an added bonus, especially when you compare to OAI which asks for more for only the AI models.
    - OJFord 1y ago
      It's trying to normalise it, make it just another part of your Google experience, alongside (and integrated with) your other Google tools. (Though that's weakened a bit by calling it 'AI Pro/Ultra' imo.)
    - quitit 1y ago
bezier-curve 1y ago
For $250/mo I would hope it includes API access to Gemini 2.5 pro, but it's nice to want things.
- highwaylights 1y ago
  I can’t see a way that anyone would be able to give uncapped access to these models for a fixed price (unless you mean it’s scoped to your own use and not for company use? Even then, that’s still a risk to the provider.)
  - bezier-curve 1y ago
    I use Msty a lot for personal use. I like its ability to fork conversations. Seems like a simple feature but even ChatGPT's UI, which everyone has tried to copy, is fairly limited by comparison.
- pc86 1y ago
  As a consumer it seems to me the low hanging fruit for these super-premium offerings is some substantial amount of API credits included every month. Back when API credits were a relatively new thing I used LLMs infrequently enough I just paid $5-10/mo for API credits and used a desktop UI to talk to ChatGPT. Now they want $200, $250/mo which is borderline offensive, and you have to pay for any API use on top of that?
- Aurornis 1y ago
  Putting API use into the monthly plans doesn't make a lot of business sense. The only people who would sign up specifically to use API requests on a monthly plan would be looking to have a lower overall bill, then they'd pay-per-request after that. It would be a net loss.
mrbluecoat 1y ago
Amusing they picked a deadly jellyfish attacking earth as their hero image
sharpshadow 1y ago
Technically more than one could use this subscription, if used through the same device. Also to make it available to users in not yet supported countries.
aylmao 1y ago
I can't decide how I feel about Google's design for this looking so Apple-y. Didn't they just release Material Design Expressive a few days ago [1]? Instead of bold shapes, bold fonts and solid colors it gradients, simple lines, frosted glass, and a single, clean, sans-serif font here. The bento-box slides look quite Apple-y too [2]. Switch the Google Sans for SF Pro, pull back on the border radius a bit, and you've essentially got the Apple look. It does look great though. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43975352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43975352 [2]: https://blog.google/products/gemini/gemini-app-updates-io-2025/ https://blog.google/products/gemini/gemini-app-updates-io-20...
- deleted 1y ago
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- GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
  it makes sense if you believe that Google has zero business interest in UI/UX. they've learned that they can shovel out pretty much anything and as long as they don't directly charge the end-user and they're able to put ads on it (or otherwise monetize it against the interest of the end user), they just don't care. they've been criticized for years and years over their lack of standardization and relatively poorly-informed design choices especially when compared with Apple's HIG.
solomatov 1y ago
Is there a premium option to control which of your data will be used for training? Or is it implemented the same way as Gemini Pro?
- rudedogg 1y ago
  If anyone at Google cares, I’d pay for Gemini Pro (not this new $200+ ridiculousness) if they didn’t train on my chats in that case. I actually would like to subscribe..
  - j_maffe 1y ago
    There's already an option for that. The downside is you can't access your chat history.
    - buildfocus 1y ago
      And lots of other features don't work, particularly external integrations. Gemini on Android refuses to do basic things like set a timer unless chat history is enabled. It is the one key feature I really want to pay extra to get, and that preference goes x2 when the AI provider is Google.
submeta 1y ago
Google Ultra: USD 250. Claude Pro: 218 EUR ChatGPT Pro: 220 EUR Not included: Perplexity, Openrouter, Cursor, etc Wow. You gotta have lots of disposable income.
- thenaturalist 1y ago
  There are enough people who do. ;) And from a business perspective, this is enabling people from solo freelancers to mid managers and others for a fraction of the time and cost required to outsource to humans. Not that I am personally in favor of this, but I can very much see the economics in these offerings.
- loudmax 1y ago
  The target market for these offerings are corporations, or self-employed developers. If these tools really do make your developers more productive, $250 a month is easily justifiable. That's only $3000 per year, a fraction of the cost of a full time developer. Obviously, the benefit is contingent on whether or not the models actually make your developers more productive.
  - catigula 1y ago
    Do any of these companies actually sell their products as developer replacements?
    - mwigdahl 1y ago
      No, but they do sell them as developer augmentations.
      - catigula 1y ago
        Interesting because that post was comparing the cost directly to a developer salary.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
i_love_retros 1y ago
This is all a bit silly
- internet_rand0 1y ago
  [dead]
qweiopqweiop 1y ago
Am I the only one getting the AI fatigue?
- hammock 1y ago
  Don’t worry, everyone is. That is why they are switching to quantum soon
  - charles_f 1y ago
    Quantum AI on the blockchain, now in Rust.
    - spookie 1y ago
      With data analytics visualized in AR
- tsujamin 1y ago
  Obviously not speaking for others experience, but it all makes me feel pretty fatigued, and as if this growing expectation of "AI-enhanced productivity" is coming at the expense of a craft and process (writing software) that I enjoy.
  - throwaway2037 1y ago
    Real question: Did painters feel the same in the mid to late 1800s? In reality, photography didn't displace painting, it just became a new art form. Maybe LLM-written software will be similar.
zhivota 1y ago
Ok so I have Google One AI or whatever the previous version of this is called, and what's wild to me is that in Google Sheets, if I ask it to do anything, literally anything, it says it can't do it. The only thing it can do is read a sheet's data and talk about it. It can't help you form formulas, add data to the sheet, organize things, anything, as far as I've seen. How does Google have the best models according to benchmarks but it can't do anything useful with them? Sheets with AI assist on things like pivot tables would be absolutely incredible.
- noosphr 1y ago
  >How does Google have the best models according to benchmarks but it can't do anything useful with them? KPI driven development with no interest in killing their cash cow. These are the people who sat on transformers for 5 years because they were too afraid it would eat their core business, e.g. Bert. One need look at what Bell Labs did to magnetic storage to realize that a monopoly isn't good for research. In short: we could have had mass magnetic storage in the 1920s/30s instead of 50s/60s. A pop sci article about it: https://gizmodo.com/how-ma-bell-shelved-the-future-for-60-years-5691604 https://gizmodo.com/how-ma-bell-shelved-the-future-for-60-ye...
  - catigula 1y ago
    I mean there's an article in Fortune magazine about the people pushing transformer "research" building doomsday bunkers. Making Google look like the mature person in the room is a tall order but it seems to have been filled.
- deleted 1y ago
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- wrs 1y ago
  The AI assistant in Sheets doesn’t understand how even the basic features work. When it’s not saying it lacks basic knowledge, it hallucinates controls that don’t exist. Why even bother having it there?
zb3 1y ago
Good good, please buy it so I can continue using Gemini for free.
retep_kram 1y ago
Given that the AI scene is not stable at all in the current moment (every day a new release that make last month's obsolete), any offer that tries to lock you with a model or model provider is a bad idea. Pay-per-use for the moment, until market consolidation and/or commoditization.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > any offer that tries to lock you with a model or model provider is a bad idea. It's a monthly plan that you can cancel at any time. Not really locking in.
  - sandspar 1y ago
    30TB of Google storage is a soft lock-in. If you fill it up you're kinda stuck.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
charles_f 1y ago
This is the kind of pricing that I expect most AI companies are gonna try to push for, and it might get even more expensive with time. When you see the delta between what's currently being burnt by OpenAI and what they bring home, the sweet point is going to be hard to find. Whether you find that you get $250 worth out of that subscription is going to be the big question
- Ancapistani 1y ago
  I agree, and the problem is that "value" != "utilization". It costs the provider the same whether the user is asking for advice on changing a recipe or building a comprehensive project plan for a major software product - but the latter provides much more value than the former. How can you extract an optimal price from the high-value use cases without making it prohibitively expensive for the low-value ones? Worse, the "low-value" use cases likely influence public perception a great deal. If you drive the general public off your platform in an attempt to extract value from the professionals, your platform may never grow to the point that the professionals hear about it in the first place.
  - garrickvanburen 1y ago
    this is the problem Google search originally had. They successfully solved it with an advertising....and they also had the ability to cache results.
    - mysterydip 1y ago
      Do LLMs cache results now? I assume a lot of the same questions get asked, although the answer could depend on previous conversational context.
      - make3 1y ago
        maybe you can do something like speculative decoding where you decode with a smaller model until the large model disagrees too much at checkpoints, but use the context free cache in place of a smaller LLM from the original method. you could also like do it multi level, fixed context free cache, small model, large model
fellowniusmonk 1y ago
As someone who grew up very poor and first got access to email via Juno's free ad based email client. I've seen so many people over the years just absolutely shit on ad based models. But ad based models are probably the least regressive approach to commercial offerings that we've seen work in the wild. I love ads. If you are smart you don't have to see them. If you are poor and smart you get free services without ads so you don't fall behind. I notice that there are no free open source providers of LLM services at this point, it's almost as if services that have high compute costs have to be paid for SOME HOW. Hopefully we get a Juno for LLM soon so that whole cycle can start again.
- leoh 1y ago
  Ads have really harmed our society imo, despite having some advantages as you mention
danesparza 1y ago
I don't mean to be snarky, but is this announcement timed just so they take press away from the Microsoft Copilot announcement?
- jonas21 1y ago
  Today was the Google I/O keynote. The date was set months in advance.
- Analemma_ 1y ago
  It’s exactly the opposite: the date for I/O was fixed months ago, Microsoft made their announcement to try and take press away from Google.
Ancapistani 1y ago
I've toyed with Gemini 2.5 briefly and was impressed... but I just can't bring myself to see Google as an option as an inference provider. I don't trust them. Actually, that's not true. I do trust them - I trust them to collect as much data as possible and to exploit those data to the greatest extent they can. I'm deep enough into AI that what I really want is a personal RAG service that exposes itself to an arbitrary model at runtime. I'd prefer to run inference locally, but that's not yet practical for what I want it to do, so I use privacy-oriented services like Venice.ai where I can. When there's no other reasonable alternative I'll use Anthropic or OpenAI. I don't trust any of the big providers, but I'm realizing that I have baseline hostility toward Google in 2025.
- nowittyusername 1y ago
  Understanding that no outside provider is going to care about your privacy and will always choose to try and sell you their crappy advertisements and push their agenda on you is the first step in building a solution. In my opinion that solution will come in the form of a personalized local ai agent which is the gatekeeper of all information the user receives and sends to the outside world. A fully context aware agent that has the users interests in mind and so only provides user agreed context to other ai systems and also filters all information coming to the user from spam, agenda manipulation, etc... Basically a very advanced spam blocker of the future that is 100% local and fully user controlled and calibrated. I think we should all be either working on something like this if we want to keep our sanity in this brave new world.
  - Ancapistani 1y ago
    Exactly. To be clear, I don't trust Venice either . It just seems less likely to me that they would both lie about their collection practices and be able to deeply exploit the data. I definitely want locally-managed data at the very least.
CSMastermind 1y ago
I pay for OpenAI Pro but this is a clear no for me. I just don't get enough value out of Gemini to justify a bump from $20 / month to $250. If they really want to win they should undercut OpenAI and convince people to switch. For $100 / month I'd downgrade my OpenAI Pro subscription and switch to Gemini Ultra.
- radicality 1y ago
  It does look like it comes with a few other perks that would normally cost a bunch too, specifically, 30TB of Google drive storage
  - airstrike 1y ago
    Yeah, no, thanks for the cross-sell but I'm not interested.
  - jameslk 1y ago
    It’s the modern day Comcast Triple Play: internet, cable, and phone
    - philistine 1y ago
      Except Comcast didn't have a reputation for shutting down services left and right. How much are you willing to bet that one of those services in that bundle is discontinued within a year?
      - tmpz22 1y ago
        You're coming awfully close to defending Comcast haha. GP's point is more that they're Comcast-like, director level incentives have become the primary focus of the company such that they will ram down dark patterns for short term profit at the cost of long term growth and product excellence - just as Comcast has done for the last two decades. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, Google crumbles but a few more vacation homes get purchased and a larger inheritance is built up for the iPad-kid progeny of the Google management class.
hackrmn 1y ago
Ok, this reminds me of that Black Mirror episode, *spoilers ahead* where the lady had a fatal tumor cut out for emergency procedure, only for it to be replaced by a synthetic neural network used by a cloud service with a multi-tier subscription model where even the basic features are "conveniently" shoved into a paying tier, up until the point she's on life support after being unable to afford even the basic subscription. Life imitates art.
- j_maffe 1y ago
  wdym life imitates art? This is exactly what the episode was about lol
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    Art imitates life!
  - hackrmn 1y ago
    I was referring to Google's AI Ultra "imitating" Black Mirror (knowingly or not).
OtherShrezzing 1y ago
The global average salary is somewhere in the region of $1500. There’s lots of people and companies out there with $250 to spend on these subscriptions per seat, but on a global scale (where Google operates), these are pretty niche markets being targeted. That doesn’t align well with the multiple trillions of dollars in increased market cap we’ve seen over the last few years at Google, Nvda, MS etc.
- paxys 1y ago
  New technology always starts off available to the elite and then slowly makes its way down to everyone. AI is no different.
  - dimitrios1 1y ago
    This is one of those assumed truisms that turns out to be false upon close scrutiny, and there's a bit of survivorship bias in the sense that we tend to look at the technologies that had mass appeal and market forces to make them cheaper and available to all. But theres tons of new tech thats effectively unobtainable to the vast majority of populations, heck even nation states. With the current prohibitive costs (in terms of processing power, energy costs, data center costs) to train these next generation models, and the walled gardens that have been erected, there's no reason to believe the good stuff is going to get cheaper anytime soon, in my opinion.
    - paxys 1y ago
      > turns out to be false upon close scrutiny Care to share that scrutiny? Computers, internet, cell phones, smartphones, cameras, long distance communication, GPS, televisions, radios, refrigerators, cars, air travel, light bulbs, guns, books. Go back as far as you want and this still holds true. You think the the majority of the planet could afford any of these on day 1?
      - kkarakk 1y ago
        the point is not that AI services will be affordable "eventually" it's that the advantage is so crazy that people who don't have access to them will NEVER be able to catch up. First AI wrappers disrupt industries ->developing nations can't compete coz the services are priced prohibitively -> AI wrappers take over even more -> automation disrupts the need for anyone -> developing nations never develop further. this seems more and more likely not less. cutting edge GPUs for eg - already are going into the stratosphere pricing wise and are additionally being sanctioned off.
julianpye 1y ago
Why do people keep on saying that corporations will pay these price-tags? Most corporations really keep a very tight lid on their software license costs. A $250 license will be only provided for individuals with very high justification barriers and the resulting envy effects will be a horror for HR. I think it will be rather individuals who will be paying out of their pocket and boosting their internal results. And outside of those areas in California where apples cost $5 in the supermarket I don't see many individuals capable of paying these rates.
- troupo 1y ago
  Corps will likely negotiate bulk pricing and discounts, with extra layers of guarantees like "don't use and share our data" on top
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  "AI will make us X% more productive. 100%-X% of you are fired, the rest get a $250/month license".
  - kulahan 1y ago
    I don’t see any benefit to removing humans in order to achieve the exact same level of efficiency… wouldn’t that just straight-up guarantee a worse product unless your employees were absolutely all horrendous to begin with?
    - bryanlarsen 1y ago
      It'll improve profit margins for a brief moment, long enough for the execs making the decision to cash out.
    - ctkhn 1y ago
      That's what most execs already believe, it's all just bean counting
  - throwaway2037 1y ago
    I foresee a slightly different outcome: If companies can genuinely enhance worker productivity with LLMs (for many roles, this will be true), then they can expand their business without hiring more people. Instead of firing, they will slow the rate of hiring. Finally, the 250 USD/month license isn't that much of a cost burden if you start with the most senior people, then slowly extend the privilege to lower and lower levels, carefully deciding if the role will be positively impacted by access to a high quality LLM. (This is similar to how Wall Street trading floors decide who gets access to expensive market data via Reuters or Bloomberg terminal.) For non-technical office jobs, LLMs will act like a good summer intern, and help to suppress new graduate hiring. Stuff like HR, legal, compliance, executive assistants, sales, marketing/PR, and accounting will all greatly benefit from LLMs. Programming will take much longer because it requires incredibly precise outputs. One low hanging fruit for programming and LLMs: What if Microsoft creates a plug-in to the VBA editor in Microsoft Office (Word, Excel, etc.) that can help to write VBA code? For more than 25 years, I have watched non-technical people use VBA, and I have generally been impressed with the results. Sure, their code looks like shit and everything has hard-coded limits, but it helps them do their work faster. It is a small miracle what people can teach themselves with (1) a few chapters of a introductory VBA book, (2) some blog posts / Google searches, and (3) macro recording. If you added (4) LLM, then it would greatly boost the productivity of Microsoft Office power users.
ir77 1y ago
people here keep saying that this is targeted at big companies/corporations. the big company that i work for explicitly block uploads of data to these services and we're forbidden to put anything company related in there for many reasons, even if you use your own account, we don't have 'company accounts'. so no, i can't see companies getting all excited about buying $250mo/user licenses for their employees for google or chatgpt to suck in their proprietary data.
- verdverm 1y ago
  These subscriptions explicitly do not suck in your proprietary data, it's all laid out in their ToS.
  - quantumHazer 1y ago
    Yeah, and who will make them accountable? How can you verify that they’re noteworthy stealing your data anyways? This companies don’t give a shit about copyright or privacy.
  - ndriscoll 1y ago
    I don't think I've ever worked somewhere where you wouldn't get fired for sending company data to a party that doesn't have an NDA signed with the company, regardless of whatever ToS they have.
    - verdverm 1y ago
      What is everyone using GitHub and AWS doing? They certainly all do not have NDAs with their code hosts and cloud providers It's in their interest to do right by their customers data, otherwise there will be a heap of legal troubles and major reputation hit, both impact bottom line more than training on your data. They can and do in fact make more money by offering to train dedicated models for your company on your data.without bringing that back to their own models.
      - ndriscoll 1y ago
internet_rand0 1y ago
[dead]
spaceman_2020 1y ago
Honestly, at this point, nation states will have to figure out an AI strategy. Poorer countries where the locals can't afford cutting edge AI tools will find themselves outproduced by wealthier workers.
- dbspin 1y ago
  Not just can't afford, but can't access. Most of these new AI tools aren't available outside the US.
Papazsazsa 1y ago
I just tried it. 8 out of 10 attempts failed to produce audio, and of those only 1 didn't suck. I suppose that's normal(?) but I won't be paying this much monthly if the results aren't better, or at least I'd expect some sort of refund mechanism.
- Papazsazsa 1y ago
  Yeah, after messing around with it all day, it's awful. Someone rushed this out the door.
johnisgood 1y ago
They are running out of ideas for names. What next, Google AI Ultra Max Pro?
- loloquwowndueo 1y ago
  You joke but don’t forget there’s an actual product called “product name” pro max (an iPhone lol)
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    Ffs... I actually had no idea lmao. Well, that does make sense then.
Fergusonb 1y ago
That's a car payment...
backendEngineer 1y ago
All to put even more AI generated bs down our throats to sell us trash that we don't need and can't afford. God the roaring twenties can't catch a break.
- MOARDONGZPLZ 1y ago
  I use it to make meeting agendas.
icelancer 1y ago
I paid for it and Google Flow was upgraded to Ultra but Gemini still shows Pro, and asks for me to upgrade. When I go to "upgrade," it says I am already at Google Ultra. Average Google product launch.
siliconc0w 1y ago
As long as these companies have an API, I imagine it's going to be cheaper to pay a la carte than pay monthly. $250 is a lot of API calls, especially as competition drives the cost lower. For stuff not behind an API, you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot because other providers might and at the very least it means developers aren't going to adopt it).
- danenania 1y ago
  It might not be as many API calls as you think. Taking OpenAI as an example, if you're using the most expensive models like o3, gpt-4.5, o1-pro, etc. heavily for coding in large codebases with lots of context, you can easily spend hundreds per month, or even thousands. So for now, the pro plans are a good deal if you're using one provider heavily, in that you can theoretically get like a 90% discount on inference if you use it enough. They are essentially offering an uncapped amount of inference. That said, these companies have every incentive to gradually reduce the relative value offered by these plans over time to make them profitable, and they have many levers they can use to accomplish that. So in the long run, API costs and 'pro plan' costs will likely start to converge.
spondyl 1y ago
Can you... talk to a human for support? Perhaps I'm just used to SSO tax billing pages where I expect the right most column to mention that. I was partly expecting it because it'd be ironic to see people complaining that a model hallucinated only for some engineer at Google to shrug and be like "Nothing we can do about it"
- paxys 1y ago
  Unless that human is an AI researcher at Google what support are you expecting?
- macrolime 1y ago
  It's Google. Obviously not.
- throwaway2037 1y ago
  > Can you... talk to a human for support? You raise an interesting point. I wonder if there is a (low margin) business waiting to be started that provides technical support for LLMs. As I understand, none of the major, commercial LLMs provide technical support (I don't count stuff like billing or password resets.). You could hire some motivated fresh grads in Philippines and India who speak English, then offer technical support for LLMs. It could be a subscription model (ideal) or per-incident (corps pay 1000 USD upfront, then each incident is 25 USD, etc.). Literally: They will help you write a better prompt for the LLM. I don't think it is a billion dollar business, but it might work. I also think you could easily attract fresh grads because they would be excited to using a wide variety of LLMs and can pad their CV/resume with all of this LLM prompting experience. (This will be a valuable skill going forward!)
arresin 1y ago
Deep think, the only thing that’s interesting in the whole i/o day is not accessible via api. Also I was hoping for a chatgpt test time search thing that. That is absolutely killer.
research_pie 1y ago
The YouTube Premium is hilarious.
- danenania 1y ago
  For a limited time they're also throwing in a Sharper Image lava lamp.
bionhoward 1y ago
I think this could be worth it if: we could have our chat histories with Gemini apps activity turned off (decouple the training from the storage) — including no googler eyeballs on our work chats (call this “confidential mode”) Jules had a confidential mode for these folks (no googler eyeballs on our work code tasks) Deep research connected to GitHub and was also confidential (don’t train on the codebase, don’t look at the codebase) The other stuff (videos etc) are obviously valuable but not a big draw for me personally right now… The biggest draw for me is trusting I can work on private code projects without compromise of security
- ehnto 1y ago
  Google, and the tech industry in general, has erased all trust I have in their ability to actually keep something confidential. They don't want to, and so they won't. If they don't use some legal workaround to consume it from the outset, they'll just roll out an automatic opt in service or license change after you've already loaded all your data in. It's negligence to trust any confidentiality provided by big tech, and they well and truly deserve that opinon.
- croes 1y ago
  How would you know if the use your code to train their models? The risk of being caught is minimal. And history showed multiple times that companies lie. Remember when nobody ever had access to the things people say to Alexa? Came out, that wasn’t true.
Aeroi 1y ago
dear god
CommenterPerson 1y ago
Stop with the snark, people. Even we have to pay our electricity bills, ya know. We're not sure about the name for the next version though. Gemini keeps suggesting "Google AI Ultra Draft". What do you think?
protocolture 1y ago
Where is the plan that just removes all their AI tools from my view.
poisonta 1y ago
Not a fan of anything Google does these days.
bdelmas 1y ago
Let's all cheer this new era coming. Soon or you pay half your salary for AI since it will be so advanced or you will be unemployed impossible to compete with people subscribed to AI. Sure it may not happen (exactly) this way but look at this pricing, 200+/month and the fact is it is just the beginning.
- smoovb 1y ago
  As a product manager who has been paying an overseas developer $4,000 a month, I'm getting quite close to replace him with a $100 a month Claude Max subscription. These high subscription costs are nothing compared to the low level employees that will be replaced or supplemented.
  - bdelmas 1y ago
    Oh yes for sure. That’s what is scary. A while back Google did a demo at their I/O event for a IA secretary. It was able to take calls for you, manage your agenda, etc… In 5 years I am sure you will have a secretary plus other jobs packed into this all included high cost subscription and AI will take more and parts of our professional and personal lives. It will be useful but oh boy it’s going to look dystopian.
tonyhart7 1y ago
they spend billions of dollar for running and develop this LLM now we get to see the price tag after initial impression
pmcf 1y ago
And includes a YouTube subscription. Top that OpenAI!
pllbnk 1y ago
Given that Youtube Premium is ~$20 USD and 30 TB of space would cost ~$130 (extrapolating from current Google Workspace pricing), that leaves all the AI fluff costing $100 more. I can see some people taking that deal but after a while realizing they are not using them as much and canceling.
TuringNYC 1y ago
This grab-bag seems haphazard to me -- half the tools seem to be perfect for creators or creative professionals. Some of the other stuff seems to be for researchers or technologists. How often do people need all of this? Is this to make tiers/products simple?

Google AI Ultra

320 points by mfiguiere 1y ago

droideqa 1y ago

[flagged]

deleted 1y ago
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codydkdc 1y ago

I really want Google to launch a Claude Code/OpenAI Codex CLI alternative. also if they included a small VM in one of these subscriptions I'd seriously consider it!

boole1854 1y ago
They are working on it: https://jules.google/ https://jules.google/
- unshavedyak 1y ago
  I got the feeling Jules was targeted at Web (ala Github) PR workflows. Is it not? The Claude Code UX is nice imo, but i didn't get the impression Jules is that.
  - kridsdale1 1y ago
    At Google, our PR flow and editing is all done in web based tools. Except for the nerds who like vi.
    - codydkdc 1y ago
      people don't use local editors? it's weird to lock people into workflows like that
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      Damn... you guys don't use proper text editors?
incognito124 1y ago
https://firebase.studio/ https://firebase.studio/
- arresin 1y ago
  It’s absolutely garbage. I was annoyed because there’s a lot of hype on Reddit.

bhhaskin 1y ago

[flagged]

Analemma_ 1y ago
OAI and Anthropic both have $200/mo. subscriptions and claim they have a bunch of paying customers; it seems to be a thing people want.
- jsheard 1y ago
  And Altman said their $200/mo plan still ultimately loses them money, so expect the level of service you get for that amount to eventually go down, and even more expensive subscriptions to slot in above.
  - unshavedyak 1y ago
    > so expect the level of service you get for that amount to eventually go down Yea that's my big problem with expensive subscriptions. If i buy 2.5 Pro today who knows what i'll be in a month.
deleted 1y ago
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johnmlussier 1y ago

I’m not interested in about 75% of this offering. Really wish they had pieced this out or done a credit system for it all. I want higher coding and LLM limits, Deep Think, and would like to try agent stuff, but don’t care at all about image or video generation, Notebook limits, YouTube Premium, or more storage. $250 is a the highest cost AI sub now. Not loving this direction.

camillomiller 1y ago
What other direction would you expect to be possible? Even with this rates most AI companies are still bleeding money.
- piskov 1y ago
  If anyone it’s Google that would be very-very inference efficient (given their custom TPUs and what have you). However if all this power is wasted on video generation, then even them probably will choke. Then again, I guess your average Joe/Jane will looove to generate some 10 seconds of you daily whatsapp stuff to share.
- karmakurtisaani 1y ago
  I wonder how long this free access to LLMs can continue. It's like early days of Facebook, before the ads and political interference started to happen. The question is, when will we see the enshittification of LLMs?
  - camillomiller 1y ago
    Exactly. When Masayoshi Son’s money will run out I guess.
Workaccount2 1y ago
I'm assuming their will be an ala carte API offer too.
causal 1y ago
Yeah it says "designed for coding" but it's missing the one thing programmers need which is just higher Gemini API usage limits.

lallysingh 1y ago

$250 a month. Oh my.

akomtu 1y ago
"Rent a brain for only $250/mo"
- croes 1y ago
  Rent a hallucinating brain
SoftTalker 1y ago
About an hour of a senior developer's fully-loaded cost.
- paxys 1y ago
  And less than an hour of an external consultant's time.
- throwaway2037 1y ago
  To be clear, 8hrs/day, 40hrs/week, 50weeks/year is about 2,000 hours. Are you really saying that "senior developers" make 250USD * 2,000 = 500K USD? 250K is more like it, and only in very high cost locations -- Silicon Valley or NYC. More like 150K in rich countries, but not the richest city. Hell, 100K EUR can get you some very good developers on the European continent.
  - hollerith 1y ago
    In the US, the salary is only about half the cost of an employee: the rest is taxes, cost of benefits like health care, etc.
    - throwaway2037 1y ago
      I believe it for normies making 60-80k, but not elite level devs making 250k+.

piskov 1y ago

Given the lack of comments after an hour passed, we have a strong case of maybe five Google AI Ultra subscribers worldwide. I, personally, try to stay as far as possible from google: Kagi for search, Brave for browsing (Firefox previously), Pro on OpenAI, etc. We’ll see how fair OpenAI will be with tracking and what have you (given “off” for improve for everyone), but Google? Nah.

rohansood15 1y ago
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
- sunaookami 1y ago
  This is an urban legend btw, Thomas Watson never said that.
deleted 1y ago
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__natty__ 1y ago

> YouTube Premium: An individual YouTube Premium plan lets you watch YouTube and listen to YouTube Music ad-free, offline and in the background. It seems weird to me, they included entertainment service in „work” related plan.

jihadjihad 1y ago
They don't even have the decency to make it a family plan, either.
- Aeolun 1y ago
  The whole family can get it for only $996/month
dewey 1y ago
It's not though, it's just the highest tier of the regular "Google One" account that also has Google Photos etc. included.
kumarm 1y ago
So everyone who want Youtube Premium can explain to their boss why they need Gemini AI Ultra for work?

Keyframe 1y ago

Hmm, interesting. There's basically no information what makes Ultra worth that much money in concrete terms except "more quota". One interesting tidbid I've noticed is that it seems Google One (or what is it called now) also carries sub for youtube. So far, I'm still on "old" Google One for my family and myself storage and have a separate youtube subscription for the same. I still haven't seen a clear upgrade path, or even a discount based on how much I have left from the old subscription, if I ever choose to do so (why?). edit: also google AI Ultra links leads to AI Pro and there's no Ultra to choose from. GG Google, as always with their "launches".

flakiness 1y ago
I believe Imagen 4 and Veo 3 (the newest image/video models) and the "deep think" variant are for Ultra only. (Is it worth it? It's a different question.)
- skybrian 1y ago
  I just tried it and Whisk seems to be using Imagen 4 and and Veo 2 when used without a subscription.

ComplexSystems 1y ago

The problem with all of these is that SOTA models keep changing. I thought about getting OpenAI's Pro subscription, and then Gemini flew ahead and was free. If I get this then sooner or later OpenAI or Anthropic will be back on top.

pc86 1y ago
I am willing to pay for up to 2 models at a time but I am constantly swapping subscriptions around. I think I'd started and cancelled GPT and Claude subscriptions at least 3-4 times each.
SirensOfTitan 1y ago
This is even the case with Gemini: The Gemini 2.5 Pro 05/06 release by Google’s own reported benchmarks was worse in 10/12 cases than the 3/25 version. Google re routed all traffic for the 3/25 checkpoint to the 05/06 version in the API. I’m also unsure who needs all of these expanded quotas because the old Gemini subscription had higher quotas than I could ever anticipate using.
- magicalist 1y ago
  > I’m also unsure who needs all of these expanded quotas because the old Gemini subscription had higher quotas than I could ever anticipate using. "Google AI Ultra" is a consumer offering though, there's no API to have quotas for?
- MisterPea 1y ago
  I'm afraid they're going to lower the limits once Ultra is available. I use Gemini Pro everyday for at least 2 hours but never hit the limit
  - tmpz22 1y ago
    I have the same concerns. To push people to the ultra tier and get their bonuses their going to use dark patterns. The only reason I maintain Claude and OpenAi subscriptions is because I expect Google to pull the rug on what has been their competitive advantage since Gemini 2.5. Have you also noticed a degradation in quality over long chat sessions? I've noticed it in NotebookLM specifically, but not Gemini 2.5. I anticipate this to become the standard, your chat degrades subtly over time.

smeeth 1y ago

I hate hate hate putting Deep Think behind a paywall. It's an ease-of-use tax. I fully expect to be able to get it over API through Poe or similar for way cheaper. Just have usage limit tiers!

lvl155 1y ago

Google is a bit tone deaf with these offerings. Are they interested in competing?

vFunct 1y ago

Does this include Gemini 2.5 Pro API access? What are the API limits? I blew through my $40 monthly fee in Github Copilot Pro+ in a few hours. =^/

Workaccount2 1y ago

I suspect Google sees the writing on the wall, and needs to move to a more subscription based business model. I don't think the ad model of the internet is dead, but I also don't think it was particularly successful. People block ads rather than forgo those services, ads conditioned people to think everything on the internet is free, and the actual monetization of ad views makes people pretty uncomfortable. So here we are, with Google now wading into the waters of subscriptions. It's a good sign for those who are worried about AI manipulating them to buy things, and a bad sign for those who like the ad model. Is the future going to be everyone has an AI plan, just like a phone plan, or internet plan, that they shell out $30-$300/mo to use? I honestly would greatly prefer it if it meant privacy, but many people seem to greatly prefer the ad-model or ad-subsidized model. ETA: Subscription with ads is ad-subsidized. You pay less but watch more ads.

aceazzameen 1y ago
It will eventually be subscriptions PLUS ads combined.
- continuational 1y ago
  YouTube is probably the most expensive streaming app, and there are still ads (sponsored sections) in nearly every video.
  - tintor 1y ago
    Sponsored sections are baked into video and very easy to skip. Unlike platform ads which disable video control while the ad is playing.
  - jeffbee 1y ago
    Cannot find any factual basis for the claim that YTP is the most expensive streaming app. Is this the case in some non-US market?
  - jerjerjer 1y ago
    > ads (sponsored sections) in nearly every video. SponsorBlock for YouTube resolves the issue.

kleiba 1y ago

These prices are nuts, in my opinion. It basically means that only companies can afford access to the latest offerings - this used to be the case for specialist software in the past (e.g., in the medical sector), but AI has the potential to be useful for anyone. Not a good development.

esafak 1y ago
And I think it is a good thing. If there are buyers, it means they are getting that much value out of it. That there is a market for it. Competition will bring prices down.
- mschuster91 1y ago
  > Competition will do its thing and bring prices down. It won't. For now the AI "market" is artificially distorted by billionaires and trillion-dollar companies dumping insane amount of cash into NVDA, but when the money spigot dries out (which it inevitably will) prices are going to skyrocket and stay there for a loooong time.
  - esafak 1y ago
    How will prices skyrocket when there is a flood of open models? Or are you talking about GPU prices? They're already high.
    - jsheard 1y ago
      Who do you think is paying to train those open models? The notable ones are all released by VC-funded startups or gigacorps which are losing staggering amounts of money to make each new release happen. If nobody is making a profit from closed models then what hope do the companies releasing open models have when the money spigot runs dry? The open models which have already been released can't be taken back now of course, but it would be foolish to assume that SOTA freebies will keep coming forever.
      - 1y ago

Calwestjobs 1y ago

Magics ! I do not know what that hate about 250 $ is, just flow is worth more.

leoh 1y ago
I would agree, were I to use flow frequently; but I would guess it’s the most operationally expensive API for Google and they may be subsidizing it (and profit in general) via users that don’t use it (ie software developers).

AJRF 1y ago

Would love to know how many people end up on this plan. If i had to guess, looking at the features I would have guessed 80 bucks. Absurdly high, but lots of little doodads and prototypes would make the price understandable at that price. 250?! I actually find that price worrying because it points to a degree of unsustainability in the economics of the products weve gotten used to.

jeffbee 1y ago
The long-standing Google One plan with 30TB of storage was already $150/mo, so your estimate was a bit low.

blagie 1y ago

I'm holding out for "Ultra Max Pro." (Comment is on the horrible naming; good naming schemes plan ahead for next month's offerings)

kylehotchkiss 1y ago
Somehow, someway you’re gonna need a Dell or Apple Ultra Edition to use it.

ivape 1y ago

Is this the only price to get Google Flow at? Any alternatives? That seemms like the killer app here.

adverbly 1y ago

Price point here is a bit too high... They have bundled so many things together into this that the sticker shock on the price is too much. I get what they're trying to do but if they were serious about this they would include some other small subscriptions as well... I should get some number of free movies on YouTube per month, I should be able to cancel a bunch of my other subscriptions... I should get free data with this or a free phone or something... I could see some value if I could actually just have one subscription but I'm not going to spend $250 a month on just another subscription to add to the pile...

ehsankia 1y ago
They put anything that makes sense. I don't know if including random movies makes sense. They got Youtube Premium which is like 15$. 30TB of storage, a bit excessive and no equivalent but 20TB is around 100$ a month.
- highwaylights 1y ago
  I’m not seeing the relevance of YouTube and the One services to this at all. I get that Big Tech loves to try to pull you into their orbit whenever you use one of their services, but this risks alienating customers who won’t use those unrelated services and may begrudge Google making them pay for them.
  - j_maffe 1y ago
    Idk if anyone will see these offerings more than just an added bonus, especially when you compare to OAI which asks for more for only the AI models.
  - OJFord 1y ago
    It's trying to normalise it, make it just another part of your Google experience, alongside (and integrated with) your other Google tools. (Though that's weakened a bit by calling it 'AI Pro/Ultra' imo.)
  - quitit 1y ago

bezier-curve 1y ago

For $250/mo I would hope it includes API access to Gemini 2.5 pro, but it's nice to want things.

highwaylights 1y ago
I can’t see a way that anyone would be able to give uncapped access to these models for a fixed price (unless you mean it’s scoped to your own use and not for company use? Even then, that’s still a risk to the provider.)
- bezier-curve 1y ago
  I use Msty a lot for personal use. I like its ability to fork conversations. Seems like a simple feature but even ChatGPT's UI, which everyone has tried to copy, is fairly limited by comparison.
pc86 1y ago
As a consumer it seems to me the low hanging fruit for these super-premium offerings is some substantial amount of API credits included every month. Back when API credits were a relatively new thing I used LLMs infrequently enough I just paid $5-10/mo for API credits and used a desktop UI to talk to ChatGPT. Now they want $200, $250/mo which is borderline offensive, and you have to pay for any API use on top of that?
Aurornis 1y ago
Putting API use into the monthly plans doesn't make a lot of business sense. The only people who would sign up specifically to use API requests on a monthly plan would be looking to have a lower overall bill, then they'd pay-per-request after that. It would be a net loss.

mrbluecoat 1y ago

Amusing they picked a deadly jellyfish attacking earth as their hero image

sharpshadow 1y ago

Technically more than one could use this subscription, if used through the same device. Also to make it available to users in not yet supported countries.

aylmao 1y ago

I can't decide how I feel about Google's design for this looking so Apple-y. Didn't they just release Material Design Expressive a few days ago [1]? Instead of bold shapes, bold fonts and solid colors it gradients, simple lines, frosted glass, and a single, clean, sans-serif font here. The bento-box slides look quite Apple-y too [2]. Switch the Google Sans for SF Pro, pull back on the border radius a bit, and you've essentially got the Apple look. It does look great though. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43975352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43975352 [2]: https://blog.google/products/gemini/gemini-app-updates-io-2025/ https://blog.google/products/gemini/gemini-app-updates-io-20...

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
it makes sense if you believe that Google has zero business interest in UI/UX. they've learned that they can shovel out pretty much anything and as long as they don't directly charge the end-user and they're able to put ads on it (or otherwise monetize it against the interest of the end user), they just don't care. they've been criticized for years and years over their lack of standardization and relatively poorly-informed design choices especially when compared with Apple's HIG.

solomatov 1y ago

Is there a premium option to control which of your data will be used for training? Or is it implemented the same way as Gemini Pro?

rudedogg 1y ago
If anyone at Google cares, I’d pay for Gemini Pro (not this new $200+ ridiculousness) if they didn’t train on my chats in that case. I actually would like to subscribe..
- j_maffe 1y ago
  There's already an option for that. The downside is you can't access your chat history.
  - buildfocus 1y ago
    And lots of other features don't work, particularly external integrations. Gemini on Android refuses to do basic things like set a timer unless chat history is enabled. It is the one key feature I really want to pay extra to get, and that preference goes x2 when the AI provider is Google.

submeta 1y ago

Google Ultra: USD 250. Claude Pro: 218 EUR ChatGPT Pro: 220 EUR Not included: Perplexity, Openrouter, Cursor, etc Wow. You gotta have lots of disposable income.

thenaturalist 1y ago
There are enough people who do. ;) And from a business perspective, this is enabling people from solo freelancers to mid managers and others for a fraction of the time and cost required to outsource to humans. Not that I am personally in favor of this, but I can very much see the economics in these offerings.
loudmax 1y ago
The target market for these offerings are corporations, or self-employed developers. If these tools really do make your developers more productive, $250 a month is easily justifiable. That's only $3000 per year, a fraction of the cost of a full time developer. Obviously, the benefit is contingent on whether or not the models actually make your developers more productive.
- catigula 1y ago
  Do any of these companies actually sell their products as developer replacements?
  - mwigdahl 1y ago
    No, but they do sell them as developer augmentations.
    - catigula 1y ago
      Interesting because that post was comparing the cost directly to a developer salary.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

i_love_retros 1y ago

This is all a bit silly

internet_rand0 1y ago
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qweiopqweiop 1y ago

Am I the only one getting the AI fatigue?

hammock 1y ago
Don’t worry, everyone is. That is why they are switching to quantum soon
- charles_f 1y ago
  Quantum AI on the blockchain, now in Rust.
  - spookie 1y ago
    With data analytics visualized in AR
tsujamin 1y ago
Obviously not speaking for others experience, but it all makes me feel pretty fatigued, and as if this growing expectation of "AI-enhanced productivity" is coming at the expense of a craft and process (writing software) that I enjoy.
- throwaway2037 1y ago
  Real question: Did painters feel the same in the mid to late 1800s? In reality, photography didn't displace painting, it just became a new art form. Maybe LLM-written software will be similar.

zhivota 1y ago

Ok so I have Google One AI or whatever the previous version of this is called, and what's wild to me is that in Google Sheets, if I ask it to do anything, literally anything, it says it can't do it. The only thing it can do is read a sheet's data and talk about it. It can't help you form formulas, add data to the sheet, organize things, anything, as far as I've seen. How does Google have the best models according to benchmarks but it can't do anything useful with them? Sheets with AI assist on things like pivot tables would be absolutely incredible.

noosphr 1y ago
>How does Google have the best models according to benchmarks but it can't do anything useful with them? KPI driven development with no interest in killing their cash cow. These are the people who sat on transformers for 5 years because they were too afraid it would eat their core business, e.g. Bert. One need look at what Bell Labs did to magnetic storage to realize that a monopoly isn't good for research. In short: we could have had mass magnetic storage in the 1920s/30s instead of 50s/60s. A pop sci article about it: https://gizmodo.com/how-ma-bell-shelved-the-future-for-60-years-5691604 https://gizmodo.com/how-ma-bell-shelved-the-future-for-60-ye...
- catigula 1y ago
  I mean there's an article in Fortune magazine about the people pushing transformer "research" building doomsday bunkers. Making Google look like the mature person in the room is a tall order but it seems to have been filled.
deleted 1y ago
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wrs 1y ago
The AI assistant in Sheets doesn’t understand how even the basic features work. When it’s not saying it lacks basic knowledge, it hallucinates controls that don’t exist. Why even bother having it there?

zb3 1y ago

Good good, please buy it so I can continue using Gemini for free.

retep_kram 1y ago

Given that the AI scene is not stable at all in the current moment (every day a new release that make last month's obsolete), any offer that tries to lock you with a model or model provider is a bad idea. Pay-per-use for the moment, until market consolidation and/or commoditization.

Aurornis 1y ago
> any offer that tries to lock you with a model or model provider is a bad idea. It's a monthly plan that you can cancel at any time. Not really locking in.
- sandspar 1y ago
  30TB of Google storage is a soft lock-in. If you fill it up you're kinda stuck.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

charles_f 1y ago

This is the kind of pricing that I expect most AI companies are gonna try to push for, and it might get even more expensive with time. When you see the delta between what's currently being burnt by OpenAI and what they bring home, the sweet point is going to be hard to find. Whether you find that you get $250 worth out of that subscription is going to be the big question

Ancapistani 1y ago
I agree, and the problem is that "value" != "utilization". It costs the provider the same whether the user is asking for advice on changing a recipe or building a comprehensive project plan for a major software product - but the latter provides much more value than the former. How can you extract an optimal price from the high-value use cases without making it prohibitively expensive for the low-value ones? Worse, the "low-value" use cases likely influence public perception a great deal. If you drive the general public off your platform in an attempt to extract value from the professionals, your platform may never grow to the point that the professionals hear about it in the first place.
- garrickvanburen 1y ago
  this is the problem Google search originally had. They successfully solved it with an advertising....and they also had the ability to cache results.
  - mysterydip 1y ago
    Do LLMs cache results now? I assume a lot of the same questions get asked, although the answer could depend on previous conversational context.
    - make3 1y ago
      maybe you can do something like speculative decoding where you decode with a smaller model until the large model disagrees too much at checkpoints, but use the context free cache in place of a smaller LLM from the original method. you could also like do it multi level, fixed context free cache, small model, large model

fellowniusmonk 1y ago

As someone who grew up very poor and first got access to email via Juno's free ad based email client. I've seen so many people over the years just absolutely shit on ad based models. But ad based models are probably the least regressive approach to commercial offerings that we've seen work in the wild. I love ads. If you are smart you don't have to see them. If you are poor and smart you get free services without ads so you don't fall behind. I notice that there are no free open source providers of LLM services at this point, it's almost as if services that have high compute costs have to be paid for SOME HOW. Hopefully we get a Juno for LLM soon so that whole cycle can start again.

leoh 1y ago
Ads have really harmed our society imo, despite having some advantages as you mention

danesparza 1y ago

I don't mean to be snarky, but is this announcement timed just so they take press away from the Microsoft Copilot announcement?

jonas21 1y ago
Today was the Google I/O keynote. The date was set months in advance.
Analemma_ 1y ago
It’s exactly the opposite: the date for I/O was fixed months ago, Microsoft made their announcement to try and take press away from Google.

Ancapistani 1y ago

I've toyed with Gemini 2.5 briefly and was impressed... but I just can't bring myself to see Google as an option as an inference provider. I don't trust them. Actually, that's not true. I do trust them - I trust them to collect as much data as possible and to exploit those data to the greatest extent they can. I'm deep enough into AI that what I really want is a personal RAG service that exposes itself to an arbitrary model at runtime. I'd prefer to run inference locally, but that's not yet practical for what I want it to do, so I use privacy-oriented services like Venice.ai where I can. When there's no other reasonable alternative I'll use Anthropic or OpenAI. I don't trust any of the big providers, but I'm realizing that I have baseline hostility toward Google in 2025.

nowittyusername 1y ago
Understanding that no outside provider is going to care about your privacy and will always choose to try and sell you their crappy advertisements and push their agenda on you is the first step in building a solution. In my opinion that solution will come in the form of a personalized local ai agent which is the gatekeeper of all information the user receives and sends to the outside world. A fully context aware agent that has the users interests in mind and so only provides user agreed context to other ai systems and also filters all information coming to the user from spam, agenda manipulation, etc... Basically a very advanced spam blocker of the future that is 100% local and fully user controlled and calibrated. I think we should all be either working on something like this if we want to keep our sanity in this brave new world.
- Ancapistani 1y ago
  Exactly. To be clear, I don't trust Venice either . It just seems less likely to me that they would both lie about their collection practices and be able to deeply exploit the data. I definitely want locally-managed data at the very least.

CSMastermind 1y ago

I pay for OpenAI Pro but this is a clear no for me. I just don't get enough value out of Gemini to justify a bump from $20 / month to $250. If they really want to win they should undercut OpenAI and convince people to switch. For $100 / month I'd downgrade my OpenAI Pro subscription and switch to Gemini Ultra.

radicality 1y ago
It does look like it comes with a few other perks that would normally cost a bunch too, specifically, 30TB of Google drive storage
- airstrike 1y ago
  Yeah, no, thanks for the cross-sell but I'm not interested.
- jameslk 1y ago
  It’s the modern day Comcast Triple Play: internet, cable, and phone
  - philistine 1y ago
    Except Comcast didn't have a reputation for shutting down services left and right. How much are you willing to bet that one of those services in that bundle is discontinued within a year?
    - tmpz22 1y ago
      You're coming awfully close to defending Comcast haha. GP's point is more that they're Comcast-like, director level incentives have become the primary focus of the company such that they will ram down dark patterns for short term profit at the cost of long term growth and product excellence - just as Comcast has done for the last two decades. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, Google crumbles but a few more vacation homes get purchased and a larger inheritance is built up for the iPad-kid progeny of the Google management class.

hackrmn 1y ago

Ok, this reminds me of that Black Mirror episode, *spoilers ahead* where the lady had a fatal tumor cut out for emergency procedure, only for it to be replaced by a synthetic neural network used by a cloud service with a multi-tier subscription model where even the basic features are "conveniently" shoved into a paying tier, up until the point she's on life support after being unable to afford even the basic subscription. Life imitates art.

j_maffe 1y ago
wdym life imitates art? This is exactly what the episode was about lol
- johnisgood 1y ago
  Art imitates life!
- hackrmn 1y ago
  I was referring to Google's AI Ultra "imitating" Black Mirror (knowingly or not).

OtherShrezzing 1y ago

The global average salary is somewhere in the region of $1500. There’s lots of people and companies out there with $250 to spend on these subscriptions per seat, but on a global scale (where Google operates), these are pretty niche markets being targeted. That doesn’t align well with the multiple trillions of dollars in increased market cap we’ve seen over the last few years at Google, Nvda, MS etc.

paxys 1y ago
New technology always starts off available to the elite and then slowly makes its way down to everyone. AI is no different.
- dimitrios1 1y ago
  This is one of those assumed truisms that turns out to be false upon close scrutiny, and there's a bit of survivorship bias in the sense that we tend to look at the technologies that had mass appeal and market forces to make them cheaper and available to all. But theres tons of new tech thats effectively unobtainable to the vast majority of populations, heck even nation states. With the current prohibitive costs (in terms of processing power, energy costs, data center costs) to train these next generation models, and the walled gardens that have been erected, there's no reason to believe the good stuff is going to get cheaper anytime soon, in my opinion.
  - paxys 1y ago
    > turns out to be false upon close scrutiny Care to share that scrutiny? Computers, internet, cell phones, smartphones, cameras, long distance communication, GPS, televisions, radios, refrigerators, cars, air travel, light bulbs, guns, books. Go back as far as you want and this still holds true. You think the the majority of the planet could afford any of these on day 1?
    - kkarakk 1y ago
      the point is not that AI services will be affordable "eventually" it's that the advantage is so crazy that people who don't have access to them will NEVER be able to catch up. First AI wrappers disrupt industries ->developing nations can't compete coz the services are priced prohibitively -> AI wrappers take over even more -> automation disrupts the need for anyone -> developing nations never develop further. this seems more and more likely not less. cutting edge GPUs for eg - already are going into the stratosphere pricing wise and are additionally being sanctioned off.

julianpye 1y ago

Why do people keep on saying that corporations will pay these price-tags? Most corporations really keep a very tight lid on their software license costs. A $250 license will be only provided for individuals with very high justification barriers and the resulting envy effects will be a horror for HR. I think it will be rather individuals who will be paying out of their pocket and boosting their internal results. And outside of those areas in California where apples cost $5 in the supermarket I don't see many individuals capable of paying these rates.

troupo 1y ago
Corps will likely negotiate bulk pricing and discounts, with extra layers of guarantees like "don't use and share our data" on top
bryanlarsen 1y ago
"AI will make us X% more productive. 100%-X% of you are fired, the rest get a $250/month license".
- kulahan 1y ago
  I don’t see any benefit to removing humans in order to achieve the exact same level of efficiency… wouldn’t that just straight-up guarantee a worse product unless your employees were absolutely all horrendous to begin with?
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    It'll improve profit margins for a brief moment, long enough for the execs making the decision to cash out.
  - ctkhn 1y ago
    That's what most execs already believe, it's all just bean counting
- throwaway2037 1y ago
  I foresee a slightly different outcome: If companies can genuinely enhance worker productivity with LLMs (for many roles, this will be true), then they can expand their business without hiring more people. Instead of firing, they will slow the rate of hiring. Finally, the 250 USD/month license isn't that much of a cost burden if you start with the most senior people, then slowly extend the privilege to lower and lower levels, carefully deciding if the role will be positively impacted by access to a high quality LLM. (This is similar to how Wall Street trading floors decide who gets access to expensive market data via Reuters or Bloomberg terminal.) For non-technical office jobs, LLMs will act like a good summer intern, and help to suppress new graduate hiring. Stuff like HR, legal, compliance, executive assistants, sales, marketing/PR, and accounting will all greatly benefit from LLMs. Programming will take much longer because it requires incredibly precise outputs. One low hanging fruit for programming and LLMs: What if Microsoft creates a plug-in to the VBA editor in Microsoft Office (Word, Excel, etc.) that can help to write VBA code? For more than 25 years, I have watched non-technical people use VBA, and I have generally been impressed with the results. Sure, their code looks like shit and everything has hard-coded limits, but it helps them do their work faster. It is a small miracle what people can teach themselves with (1) a few chapters of a introductory VBA book, (2) some blog posts / Google searches, and (3) macro recording. If you added (4) LLM, then it would greatly boost the productivity of Microsoft Office power users.

ir77 1y ago

people here keep saying that this is targeted at big companies/corporations. the big company that i work for explicitly block uploads of data to these services and we're forbidden to put anything company related in there for many reasons, even if you use your own account, we don't have 'company accounts'. so no, i can't see companies getting all excited about buying $250mo/user licenses for their employees for google or chatgpt to suck in their proprietary data.

verdverm 1y ago
These subscriptions explicitly do not suck in your proprietary data, it's all laid out in their ToS.
- quantumHazer 1y ago
  Yeah, and who will make them accountable? How can you verify that they’re noteworthy stealing your data anyways? This companies don’t give a shit about copyright or privacy.
- ndriscoll 1y ago
  I don't think I've ever worked somewhere where you wouldn't get fired for sending company data to a party that doesn't have an NDA signed with the company, regardless of whatever ToS they have.
  - verdverm 1y ago
    What is everyone using GitHub and AWS doing? They certainly all do not have NDAs with their code hosts and cloud providers It's in their interest to do right by their customers data, otherwise there will be a heap of legal troubles and major reputation hit, both impact bottom line more than training on your data. They can and do in fact make more money by offering to train dedicated models for your company on your data.without bringing that back to their own models.
    - ndriscoll 1y ago

internet_rand0 1y ago

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spaceman_2020 1y ago

Honestly, at this point, nation states will have to figure out an AI strategy. Poorer countries where the locals can't afford cutting edge AI tools will find themselves outproduced by wealthier workers.

dbspin 1y ago
Not just can't afford, but can't access. Most of these new AI tools aren't available outside the US.

Papazsazsa 1y ago

I just tried it. 8 out of 10 attempts failed to produce audio, and of those only 1 didn't suck. I suppose that's normal(?) but I won't be paying this much monthly if the results aren't better, or at least I'd expect some sort of refund mechanism.

Papazsazsa 1y ago
Yeah, after messing around with it all day, it's awful. Someone rushed this out the door.

johnisgood 1y ago

They are running out of ideas for names. What next, Google AI Ultra Max Pro?

loloquwowndueo 1y ago
You joke but don’t forget there’s an actual product called “product name” pro max (an iPhone lol)
- johnisgood 1y ago
  Ffs... I actually had no idea lmao. Well, that does make sense then.

Fergusonb 1y ago

That's a car payment...

backendEngineer 1y ago

All to put even more AI generated bs down our throats to sell us trash that we don't need and can't afford. God the roaring twenties can't catch a break.

MOARDONGZPLZ 1y ago
I use it to make meeting agendas.

icelancer 1y ago

I paid for it and Google Flow was upgraded to Ultra but Gemini still shows Pro, and asks for me to upgrade. When I go to "upgrade," it says I am already at Google Ultra. Average Google product launch.

siliconc0w 1y ago

As long as these companies have an API, I imagine it's going to be cheaper to pay a la carte than pay monthly. $250 is a lot of API calls, especially as competition drives the cost lower. For stuff not behind an API, you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot because other providers might and at the very least it means developers aren't going to adopt it).

danenania 1y ago
It might not be as many API calls as you think. Taking OpenAI as an example, if you're using the most expensive models like o3, gpt-4.5, o1-pro, etc. heavily for coding in large codebases with lots of context, you can easily spend hundreds per month, or even thousands. So for now, the pro plans are a good deal if you're using one provider heavily, in that you can theoretically get like a 90% discount on inference if you use it enough. They are essentially offering an uncapped amount of inference. That said, these companies have every incentive to gradually reduce the relative value offered by these plans over time to make them profitable, and they have many levers they can use to accomplish that. So in the long run, API costs and 'pro plan' costs will likely start to converge.

spondyl 1y ago

Can you... talk to a human for support? Perhaps I'm just used to SSO tax billing pages where I expect the right most column to mention that. I was partly expecting it because it'd be ironic to see people complaining that a model hallucinated only for some engineer at Google to shrug and be like "Nothing we can do about it"

paxys 1y ago
Unless that human is an AI researcher at Google what support are you expecting?
macrolime 1y ago
It's Google. Obviously not.
throwaway2037 1y ago
> Can you... talk to a human for support? You raise an interesting point. I wonder if there is a (low margin) business waiting to be started that provides technical support for LLMs. As I understand, none of the major, commercial LLMs provide technical support (I don't count stuff like billing or password resets.). You could hire some motivated fresh grads in Philippines and India who speak English, then offer technical support for LLMs. It could be a subscription model (ideal) or per-incident (corps pay 1000 USD upfront, then each incident is 25 USD, etc.). Literally: They will help you write a better prompt for the LLM. I don't think it is a billion dollar business, but it might work. I also think you could easily attract fresh grads because they would be excited to using a wide variety of LLMs and can pad their CV/resume with all of this LLM prompting experience. (This will be a valuable skill going forward!)

arresin 1y ago

Deep think, the only thing that’s interesting in the whole i/o day is not accessible via api. Also I was hoping for a chatgpt test time search thing that. That is absolutely killer.

research_pie 1y ago

The YouTube Premium is hilarious.

danenania 1y ago
For a limited time they're also throwing in a Sharper Image lava lamp.

bionhoward 1y ago

I think this could be worth it if: we could have our chat histories with Gemini apps activity turned off (decouple the training from the storage) — including no googler eyeballs on our work chats (call this “confidential mode”) Jules had a confidential mode for these folks (no googler eyeballs on our work code tasks) Deep research connected to GitHub and was also confidential (don’t train on the codebase, don’t look at the codebase) The other stuff (videos etc) are obviously valuable but not a big draw for me personally right now… The biggest draw for me is trusting I can work on private code projects without compromise of security

ehnto 1y ago
Google, and the tech industry in general, has erased all trust I have in their ability to actually keep something confidential. They don't want to, and so they won't. If they don't use some legal workaround to consume it from the outset, they'll just roll out an automatic opt in service or license change after you've already loaded all your data in. It's negligence to trust any confidentiality provided by big tech, and they well and truly deserve that opinon.
croes 1y ago
How would you know if the use your code to train their models? The risk of being caught is minimal. And history showed multiple times that companies lie. Remember when nobody ever had access to the things people say to Alexa? Came out, that wasn’t true.

Aeroi 1y ago

dear god

CommenterPerson 1y ago

Stop with the snark, people. Even we have to pay our electricity bills, ya know. We're not sure about the name for the next version though. Gemini keeps suggesting "Google AI Ultra Draft". What do you think?

protocolture 1y ago

Where is the plan that just removes all their AI tools from my view.

poisonta 1y ago

Not a fan of anything Google does these days.

bdelmas 1y ago

Let's all cheer this new era coming. Soon or you pay half your salary for AI since it will be so advanced or you will be unemployed impossible to compete with people subscribed to AI. Sure it may not happen (exactly) this way but look at this pricing, 200+/month and the fact is it is just the beginning.

smoovb 1y ago
As a product manager who has been paying an overseas developer $4,000 a month, I'm getting quite close to replace him with a $100 a month Claude Max subscription. These high subscription costs are nothing compared to the low level employees that will be replaced or supplemented.
- bdelmas 1y ago
  Oh yes for sure. That’s what is scary. A while back Google did a demo at their I/O event for a IA secretary. It was able to take calls for you, manage your agenda, etc… In 5 years I am sure you will have a secretary plus other jobs packed into this all included high cost subscription and AI will take more and parts of our professional and personal lives. It will be useful but oh boy it’s going to look dystopian.

tonyhart7 1y ago

they spend billions of dollar for running and develop this LLM now we get to see the price tag after initial impression

pmcf 1y ago

And includes a YouTube subscription. Top that OpenAI!

pllbnk 1y ago

Given that Youtube Premium is ~$20 USD and 30 TB of space would cost ~$130 (extrapolating from current Google Workspace pricing), that leaves all the AI fluff costing $100 more. I can see some people taking that deal but after a while realizing they are not using them as much and canceling.

TuringNYC 1y ago

This grab-bag seems haphazard to me -- half the tools seem to be perfect for creators or creative professionals. Some of the other stuff seems to be for researchers or technologists. How often do people need all of this? Is this to make tiers/products simple?