28 ms·

I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

• oldpersonintx 2y ago
  [dead]
• snapcaster 2y ago
  This is horrible and scary, why border guards are even giving the authority to revoke visas is beyond me. When people think about giving cops/guards authority like this they need to be picturing the dumbest bully from their grade school. That's who is going to be using the power
  • pjc50 2y ago
    It's Team Grade School Bullies all the way up, from the voters to the representatives. Plus decades of pro-cop propaganda, especially against following the rules.
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  • blindriver 2y ago
    Every country is like this. Israel is the scariest but I remember decades ago crossing into Switzerland by train and in the middle of the night being woken up by border guards with barking German shepherds asking for my passport. I have so many stories it’s funny. On top of the other stories I’ve already posted, my friend who is Canadian drove into Buffalo for dinner and on his way back, they asked him where are you going. He answered “Canada” and they detained him and pulled apart his car looking for drugs. He was detained for hours until they let him go.
    • ssijak 2y ago
      "Switzerland by train and in the middle of the night being woken up by border guards with barking German shepherds asking for my passport" What is exactly wrong here? They checked your passport and went on their way, that is how it works.
      • ethbr1 2y ago
        It was hilarious seeing the difference between the French and Swiss border guards on train rides. French: laughing and talking, checking everyone's passports Swiss: eyes scanning the car, papers please
      • blindriver 2y ago
        Nothing wrong. The previous poster claimed that the US Border patrol was excessively scary but my point is this happens everywhere around the world.
        • freehorse 2y ago
          The part OP is scared of and points to is some border guard revoking your visa, which probably implies you losing your job and having to leave the country you live in. This is scary because it is a very big, bad outcome to be totally in the authority of a random border guard to decide. Waking out by guards and dogs barking on a train is scary in its own right the moment it happens, but we are talking about totally different things whose only intersection is "border guards" and the emotional category of "scared".
          • blindriver 2y ago
            [flagged]
            • freehorse 2y ago
              I did not say it cannot be revoked or it does not happen anywhere else, I said it is scary for completely different reasons than waking up in a train to a border guard checking your passport. Moreover, both can in principle happen anywhere, but the extent and context of them actually happening also matters.
    • pjc50 2y ago
      There's a wide spectrum between being aggressive about asking for your passport and detention for weeks. While it's a slippery slope the extent to which it happens, and the extent to which prejudice is involved, varies a lot.
      • blindriver 2y ago
        Are you suggesting that Swiss border patrol would have been more forgiving if I were illegally entering their country?
        • wk_end 2y ago
          Well, she wasn't illegally entering the United States, so that's sort of moot.
          • blindriver 2y ago
            She was. You didn't even do a modicum of research. She co-founded a hemp drink company in California and then self-assigned her own TN visa through the company she founded, which isn't allowed. Her visa was actually illegal and then she was found upon subsequent crossing. She tried to reapply and this time she was detained.
            • dowager_dan99 2y ago
              I need to determine if this is true. I had not heard of it before, and the idea she would qualify for a TN visa seemed a little thin, but the rules are so arbitrary and uneven (especially these days) who knows. Regardless this sounds like a nightmare, and to top it off is neither "DOGE-efficient" or increases US security. It's a least 4-combinations of lose-lose.
              • blindriver 2y ago
                See my other reply, with receipts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413758
    • nsavage 2y ago
      As a Canadian living near the border (as many Canadians are!), I would often drive into the US for shopping. There are a number of towns that seem dedicated to serving Canadians, like Watertown, NY. I've found that often the US border guards would be much nicer than the Canadian border guards, probably because the Canadians are the ones that need to deal with the customs rules (Canadians aren't trying to smuggle their new purchases back to the US without paying tax!). I haven't been on a shopping trip like that in a while though, and I find it hard to believe I'll ever do it again now. I feel bad for Watertown, but with the tariffs and the risk of detention, its not worth it.
      • dowager_dan99 2y ago
        don't forget a sub-70 cent dollar. Pretty rough to pay that sort of premium and THEN maybe GST and duty on your purchases. It's not the same as a generation ago when you had to go to the US to get their chocolate bars...
      • ilamont 2y ago
        The Walmarts and gas stations near the Northern NY border used to have a lot of Ontario and Quebec plates. I've seen reports that February traffic across the bridges was down ~15% in February YoY.
      • thelittlenag 2y ago
        That's an interesting anecdote. I grew up on a border town, but as a US Citizen often going up into Cananda. Without fail it was always the US border guards who were the jerks (I went to school with their kids!) and the Canadian guards who were gracious and courteous. Given that I've NEVER had what I would call a great interaction with a US border guard, it warms my heart to hear that at least they could be kind to some one ;-)
        • freedomben 2y ago
          This has been my experience as well (as a US citizen). I've crossed the US/Canadian border many times and the US guards are usually the jerks. I always dread re-entry into the US because of that.
    • ikerrin1 2y ago
      Canadian here. I recall in 1991 being woken by Swiss border guards in a train carriage full of Germans and Italians. After inspecting their passports they shined the light in my face. They saw my maple leaf on my bag and asked “Est-tu Canadian” bleary eyed I replied “oui” and they said,”it’s fine, we don’t need to see your passport”. Of course 9 years later I was thrown off a train to Czechoslovakia” because they changed the visa requirements at the last minute and my “Let’s Go” guidebook was out of date. Oh being young, stupid and crossing boarders without a clue.
    • yerushalayim 2y ago
      Scary can be an effective deterrent against unsavory adversaries.
    • seec 2y ago
      Of course, it's kind of the point of having borders and control, if they let anyone in without verifying, it's not even worth having a border. Going from France to UK is like that, and before Shenzen, it was like that from EU country to EU country. When I was young, we had to wait for 2 hours with my parents while they checked everything was in order for a Spain border crossing (we were in a big RV so it makes sense). People on HN have very soft views of the world, being too idealistic libertarian or some sort of socialist derived ideology. Most people may not be criminal but you have to process everyone crossing the border as if because otherwise it's pointless and you will never catch the criminals...
  • throwawaymaths 2y ago
    I'm about to travel to canada on work and as i understand it the last step in the visa is an interview at the port of entry where the border guard can decide if I get to stay or not.
    • poulsbohemian 2y ago
      When I went through it years ago, it was mostly about making sure you had all your paperwork in order - had the company sponsoring you provided the relevant information regarding the role and why you were needed, did your resume and experience match at all with the work being performed, etc. Basically I showed up with a list of documents and a very nice border guard looked it over and said welcome to Canada. Each time I traveled up there for work, the border guards were polite and professional. Each time I traveled home, I got pulled aside for advanced screening like I was a drug mule. Just loved all the America trivia questions and deep dives into the history of where I live, just so they could feel good about their jobs.
      • aendruk 2y ago
        > Each time I traveled up there for work, the border guards were polite and professional. Each time I traveled home, I got pulled aside […] Interesting, it was the opposite for me, US citizen with CA work permit circa 2016. CBP seemed to not care while CBSA was often irrationally aggressive and suspicious. The closest thing I got to an explanation once after being freed was “We just like you” with a grin.
        • ethbr1 2y ago
          My experiences with CBSA were pretty bad too. I was grilled in Vancouver about whether the purpose of my visit was work or pleasure, after I helpfully told the officer that my dad was attending a work conference and I was traveling with him but sightseeing. "Well which one is it, work or pleasure?!" I don't know, dude. I just explained the situation: you're supposed to be the expert!
          • 2y ago
  • bergie 2y ago
    The only border experience I've ever had that was worse than US was Canada. And I've traveled quite extensively.
• stewx 2y ago
  My takeaway from this is that laws and rules don't matter if the officials on the ground are incompetent, ignorant, and have contempt for you. There is a lot of unnecessary cruelty and lack of due process in this story.
  • freehorse 2y ago
    I sort of disagree. There _is_ a process, which optimises for holding people as long as possible for the prison industrial complex to make money. When you privatise these kind of social services, this is what happens. This is not due to a few officials on the ground that just happened by chance to be "incompetent, ignorant, and have contempt for you". As the article concludes, > The reality became clear: Ice detention isn’t just a bureaucratic nightmare. It’s a business. These facilities are privately owned and run for profit. > Companies like CoreCivic and GEO Group receive government funding based on the number of people they detain, which is why they lobby for stricter immigration policies. It’s a lucrative business: CoreCivic made over $560m from Ice contracts in a single year. In 2024, GEO Group made more than $763m from Ice contracts. > The more detainees, the more money they make. It stands to reason that these companies have no incentive to release people quickly. What I had experienced was finally starting to make sense.
    • almostgotcaught 2y ago
      > There _is_ a process, which optimises for holding people as long as possible for the prison industrial complex to make money "due process" is what you are due - it is what is afforded to you by the 4th amendment and habeus corpus. Op is correct.
      • freehorse 2y ago
        I was disagreeing that it is just a matter of some officials doing a bad job. And in any case it is not about who is right or wrong, OP is right in identifying that there is no due process, and I did not disagree with that.
      • pjc50 2y ago
• CaffeineLD50 2y ago
  I suspect they are under pressure to juke their stats and they could get a gold star for "deporting" her. Ergo "you aren't a criminal. Come with me. You're being deported."
  • Gigachad 2y ago
    This is what America did in the Middle East after 9/11. Just collect up some random people. Claim they are terrorists and send them to Guantanamo bay where they are tortured and raped for a few years for no reason other than to claim they are solving terrorism.
    • ttyprintk 2y ago
      There was an interesting prelude: once the flight restrictions were lifted after 9/11, the FBI packed up 140-160 relatives of Osama Bin Laden living in USA and quietly flew them out of the country.
      • Etheryte 2y ago
        This sounds odd, how does someone even have 140-160 relatives who are alive?
        • 9rx 2y ago
          Depends on what you consider related, but that's about how many I'd expect to show up at a family reunion.
          • deleted 2y ago
            [deleted]
          • Etheryte 2y ago
            Assuming four generations attend, that would work out to over four kids per couple. Older generations often had a lot of kids, but that still sounds like a pretty high number to me. First gen: 1 person, plus 1 spouse, for 2 people. Second gen: 4 children of the 1st gen, plus 4 spouses, for 8 additional people. Third gen: 16 children of the 2nd gen, plus 16 spouses, for 32 additional people. Fourth gen: 64 young children, no spouses. Adds up to 106 people in total. For 140-160 people, that would be even more children per couple. Unless I mixed the numbers up somewhere, that sounds like a lot of kids, no?
• xil3 2y ago
  Yea that's scary. I was in a similar situation, but thankfully they just interrogated me for 5 hours and then sent me back to Canada. My name was marked from that point, so everytime I re-entered US I had to get pulled into secondary.
  • blindriver 2y ago
    My sister accidentally brought a banana across the border from Canada into the US 20 years ago and because of that she gets secondary inspection every time.
• croes 2y ago
  So why does it take to weeks to deport a Canadian to Canada? Are those detainment cells privately owned?
  • righthand 2y ago
    [flagged]
  • Filligree 2y ago
    > Are those detainment cells privately owned? Yes; it's a billion dollar business.
  • ethbr1 2y ago
    >> The reality became clear: Ice detention isn’t just a bureaucratic nightmare. It’s a business. These facilities are privately owned and run for profit. >> Companies like CoreCivic and GEO Group receive government funding based on the number of people they detain, which is why they lobby for stricter immigration policies. It’s a lucrative business: CoreCivic made over $560m from Ice contracts in a single year. In 2024, GEO Group made more than $763m from Ice contracts.
  • jonathantf2 2y ago
    Yeah, the prisons are privately operated. The cynic in me would bet that the agents have some sort of KPI or even kickback from these companies for filling the cells and costing the taxpayer $$$.
  • themaninthedark 2y ago
    How busy are officials in Canada? They need to (at a minimum) verify her passport, let Canada know they are deporting her, any due process stuff that has to happen in US to deport....
• righthand 2y ago
  This country is sick in the head. We actively eschew healthcare for temporary satisfaction that we are locking some minority group up. Then the defense spend lobby comes back around riling people up so that they can make money and people can have temporary satisfaction that they are safe.
• danso 2y ago
  > A woman asked me for the name of someone they could contact on my behalf. In moments like this, you realize you don’t actually know anyone’s phone number anymore. By some miracle, I had recently memorized my best friend Britt’s number because I had been putting my grocery points on her account. I definitely would be screwed in this situation. Time to remember by sibling’s number
  • elicash 2y ago
    Reminds me of doing civil disobedience -- you write your attorney's phone number on your arm beforehand.
    • betaby 2y ago
      > your attorney's phone Right, people have attorneys. Very common thing ... nowhere?
      • littlestymaar 2y ago
        Nobody does civil disobedience by themselves: you do it as a group and yes the group better find an attorney beforehand …
        • betaby 2y ago
          The article about a person crossing the border. Are they supposed to have an attorney in the destination country?
          • elicash 2y ago
            I was simply sharing an anecdote about how we don't remember phone numbers anymore, in reply to someone sharing they didn't know their sibling's number. You're reading more into my comment than was stated or intended. To read me as somehow condemning the woman in the original story seems pretty willfully bad faith.
          • 2y ago
• BrandoElFollito 2y ago
  I traveled to the US (from my country -France- and many others) for 12 years. About a trip every month. The last time was 10 years ago. I never had any problems (outside the horrible behaviour of border officers who show you that you are not welcome). I was stopped once by a policeman when I did an illegal car maneuver (which is tolerated in France), and when he realized I was a tourist with family, he just said, "Be careful, have a nice trip." Today I am seriously considering never going to the US anymore because it looks like it is not a good destination anymore. I may be wrong though, I hope.
  • dhsysusbsjsi 2y ago
    I've already made the decision not to go to the US again for the foreseeable future.
    • apwell23 2y ago
      [flagged]
    • nicbou 2y ago
      Same. The president is repeatedly threatening to annex my country. I was already avoiding the US because TSA is creepy, but now I'm actively divesting from it.
    • greatpatton 2y ago
      Same, will not risk my mental health for a trip to the US.
    • BizarreByte 2y ago
      Same for me as well. I've also gone as far as moving any paying business away from the US. I have completely moved off paid US services as of about a month ago to Canadian or EU equivalents.
      • apwell23 2y ago
        thank you. curious whats making you so emotional about it though ? why so angry?
• Gigachad 2y ago
  Governments need to start putting out travel warnings on the US. It’s becoming an increasingly dangerous place to visit.
  • Euphorbium 2y ago
    And remove visa free travel for americans.
    • apwell23 2y ago
      would make european tourist spots so much clamer and nicer
      • briandear 2y ago
        https://fpa.org/british-and-french-vie-for-worst-tourists-title/ https://fpa.org/british-and-french-vie-for-worst-tourists-ti...
        • greatpatton 2y ago
          The article is rather funny as French are supposedly "terrible at foreign languages", but try to find a Briton that can speak anything else than English, it's like finding a needle in a haystack.
          • bloak 2y ago
            People say that, but do we have any proper data, preferably on assessed language knowledge rather than claimed language knowledge? There's some crap going on in France that English is specified as a requirement for many jobs even when it quite obviously isn't needed. So people lie and nobody cares. On the other hand, it seems to me that people in England are overly modest about their language abilities. I think if you handed out written instructions in French or German on how to win £1000 then a lot of people who wouldn't normally claim to know any foreign languages would successfully follow the instructions.
• Swoerd123 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • Zambyte 2y ago
    What was wrong with Harris?
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    • AlexandrB 2y ago
      Extremist positions on trans issues. To quote Sam Harris: "Congratulations, Democrats. You have found the most annoying thing in the fucking galaxy and hung it around your necks."[1] [1] https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-reckoning https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-reckoning
      • Trasmatta 2y ago
        Harris said almost nothing about trans issues during the election. You're attempting to rewrite history if you're claiming it was somehow a core tenant of her campaign. That was entirely propaganda by the opposing party.
        • blindriver 2y ago
          Are voters only supposed to limit their votes about things candidates say during the election? If so does that mean voting against Trump for Jan 6 insurrection was wrong? Or can voters vote against Harris because of policies she has endorsed before the election?
          • skyyler 2y ago
            >If so does that mean voting against Trump for Jan 6 insurrection was wrong? Well, no, because he campaigned on that. Including pardons for people that participated.
• peterpost2 2y ago
  Is this what is meant with "Make America great again"?
  • dandanua 2y ago
    For bullies of all kinds - absolutely.
• richev 2y ago
  Related: "The case for boycotting the United States" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/18/us-trump-boycott https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/18/us-tru...
  • dkd903 2y ago
    This is what main stream media propaganda looks like. > Dr Alawieh had traveled last month to Lebanon, her home country, to visit relatives. No, she did not; she attended the funeral of a leader of a US-designated terror organization. https://x.com/DHSgov/status/1901668299793899705 https://x.com/DHSgov/status/1901668299793899705
    • rgreeko42 2y ago
      Oh, well if DHS says so on X The Everything Site it must be true
      • yks 2y ago
        In a blink of an eye Americans went from "the government is out there to oppress you" to "if the government says the undisclosed people it snatches from the streets and deports are criminals, it must be true".
        • Vilian 2y ago
          Us-america are simply to ignorant to see that, they parrot what their sweet sweet propaganda say, it's just a shift from whoever is on power
        • tac19 2y ago
          [flagged]
          • oa335 2y ago
            > There is a sense that the new American administration is more appropriately focused on oppressing criminals and people occupying the country illegally, which may account for more acceptance and a slight uptick in trust That’s not an interesting insight IMO. All governments claim some degree of criminality or immorality of the people they are oppressing. After all, didn’t this administration pardon people who 50% of the country believe were actively trying to overthrow the government?
• almostgotcaught 2y ago
  > That would be the response to nearly every question I would ask over the next two weeks: “I don’t know.” If you don't understand the threat of an authoritarian dictatorship for its inhabitants, this is it; a state apparatus that is completely opaque, offers no explanation for its actions (other than jingoistic rhetoric), and provides no recourse and certainly no remedy. people okay with this (and there are many on hn that are as bas been made evident in the last months) simply do not understand that none of their privilege (education/money/status) has any effect on the implacable "I don't know"; if you get snapped up for whatever reason, whatever small innocuous infraction or perceived grievance (or manipulation of the system by someone that doesn't like you), you will go into the same blackhole. they will be telling your lawyers, your family, the (remaining) press "I don't know" and you will be rotting until some whim sets you free (or not).
• jonathantf2 2y ago
  Absolutely terrifying. I'm sure it doesn't technically class as "kidnapping" since the law must have some loophole saying they can detain you indefinitely for any reason (or none at all in this case) but it's what I'd call it.
• blindriver 2y ago
  Yes. This is the reality of how it is. It’s unfair that this woman was caught in this but CBP have ultimate power crossing the border can be scary. My friend got her visa stripped and given a 10 year ban under Obama because of jokes in her text messages about a GC marriage. She didn’t get thrown in jail but she was refused entry back into the US and had to get someone to sell all her stuff while she flew back to her home country. Most of you have no idea about how life is because you’re probably citizens but this is the reality at the border. It’s even worse in other countries. Someone I know is from Australia and she said if you overstay your visa they track you down, arrest you and send you to jails outside of Australia mainland until you are eventually deported. Every country treats their border extremely strictly. CORRECTION: I pinged my friend and I was wrong. They arrest them but don’t send to offshore jails. Those are for illegal immgrants that arrive on boats.
  • jkaplowitz 2y ago
    > Someone I know is from Australia and she said if you overstay your visa they track you down, arrest you and send you to jails outside of Australia mainland until you are eventually deported. Every country treats their border extremely strictly. Honestly, this kind of abusive approach is predominant among certain of the major anglophone countries only, at least within the world of fully developed democratic countries, likely for reasons of shared media ownership/viewership and overlapping cultural/political attitudes but I don’t know for sure. Yes, several other fully developed democratic countries do of course treat their borders strictly in the sense of who’s allowed in and under what circumstances, but not with these kinds of abusive treatment as a common pattern. And I do frequently read news in three languages plus a fourth occasionally, so I don’t think this is just me being biased toward news from countries that share of my native language of English.
    • _t9ow 2y ago
      > I do frequently read news in three languages plus a fourth occasionally Impressive. Can you speak or understand by listening these languages as well? And if I may ask out of curiosity, which languages are they?
• drumhead 2y ago
  If the objective is to scare people off from going to the USA, then they're doing a magnificent job. I've heard other cases of people with green cards being arrested and put in terrible conditions, with absolutely no reason given. This woman was ready to go back home and not enter the US, but instead she was dragged through hell and only released because she was Canadian. All those with different passports get subjected to their own more oppressive and never ending hells, like being deported to a prison camp in Ecuador with no idea when you'd ever be released. New America is absolutely terrifying.
  • perihelions 2y ago
    (The forced labor camp is in El Salvador, not Ecuador).
  • freehorse 2y ago
    This whole situation -coupled with the outright bans or obstacles in giving visas to people from several countries- cannot but have unpredictable consequences. For example, right now, I cannot imagine any big academic international conference keep taking place in the US. And if they do, they should get boycotted. US right now is neither accessible nor safe for foreign citizens. And I bet recruiting or holding to highly skilled labour force will start being a problem too.
    • jcranmer 2y ago
      > For example, right now, I cannot imagine any big academic international conference keep taking place in the US. There is a language standards committee meeting that was going to take place in the US that is now not because too many attendees think the US is no longer a safe place to travel to. We're already seeing this damage take place.
      • franktankbank 2y ago
        [flagged]
      • fc417fc802 2y ago
• BizarreByte 2y ago
  The specifics of this case are largely irrelevant to me, the fact is I am scared to cross the border into the US at this point. For the foreseeable future I will not be travelling to the US for any reason. Canada is safe and there is nothing in the US worth risking my freedom for. I will remain here and I will continue to avoid travel to America as well as spending money on American goods/services.
  • transcriptase 2y ago
    The specifics are seemingly irrelevant to everyone. She had her work visa revoked at the Canadian border because her company in California was allegedly making THC beverages in violation of federal law. She was told to visit a consulate to straighten it out. Instead she flew to Mexico and tried to enter there with new and obviously fake job offer. She was treated like anyone else would, but it’s international news because she’s a pretty white woman.
    • BizarreByte 2y ago
      Again I do not care. The US has done more than enough to instill fear in Canadians like me. Would you travel to a country where its leader is constantly making threats against your country, some as serious as repeatedly calling for your annexation? The current US administration has made it very clear how it feels about me and my countrymen. I don't consider the US safe and I do not need someone to americansplain to me. You aren't exceptional, you're a threat.
      • transcriptase 2y ago
        I am Canadian. I’ve been to the U.S. a hundred times and nothing has really changed to make me blink at continuing to go. I have friends and family who work and vacation there, and it’s the same for them as it’s always been. The Canadian media and Canadian businesses have been drumming up fear and patriotic rhetoric to drive domestic industries. That’s great - the last 10 years of “Canada is a post-national state with no culture or identity” narrative that Trudeau championed wasn’t doing us any favours anyway. Trump may be a buffoon and what he’s doing is clearly not acceptable with respect to Canada, but to fear visiting or considering the U.S. unsafe when it’s objectively far safer than visiting any all-inclusive hotspot in the Caribbean that Canadians are still flocking to like they do every winter is, well, removed from reality.
• linuxftw 2y ago
  Don't come to the US, it's a police state. Those people are stuck in detention for weeks and months at a time because there's thousands upon thousands of them, and they all get to have a hearing of some sort. Those hearings take time to process. > I met a family of three who had been living in the US for 11 years with work authorizations. This is code for 'illegal alien.' Previous administrations were willfully not enforcing the law, granting temporary status to those who weren't actually eligible. The new administration is not playing that game. Catch and release is over. If you're here unlawfully, you're going to be detained until you have a hearing, which is going to send you back to where you came from most likely.
  • ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
    The work authorization meant they were there legally.
    • linuxftw 2y ago
      No, it just means they were awaiting a hearing, and had a temporary authorization. That's what you get when you show up to the country and say 'asylum.'
      • ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
        Yes, the authorization means they were... authorized. Ergo, they were there legally.
• heraldgeezer 2y ago
  >There were around 140 of us in our unit. Many women had lived and worked in the US legally for years but had overstayed their visas – often after reapplying and being denied. They had all been detained without warning. Okay so, not legal then? These articles are always like this. "omg I just overstayed a little bit!!! uwu" Btw, I am European and will never hopefully have to visit the USA again.
  • apwell23 2y ago
    > These women acknowledged that they shouldn’t have overstayed and took responsibility for their actions. They took responsibility for their actions so they should't have been put there. punishing ppl even after they take responsibility is not what ppl voted for.
    • I-M-S 2y ago
      What does "taking responsibility for their actions" mean in this context?
      • apwell23 2y ago
        saying "i take responsibility" to officers
    • sejje 2y ago
      Wasn't it their responsibility to leave on their own?
    • heraldgeezer 2y ago
      >punishing ppl even after they take responsibility is not what ppl voted for. Trump made his intentions very clear. This is exactly what people want.
    • account42 2y ago
      What do you expect, that anyone can violate the law and get off without consequences as long as they say "sorry"? Taking responsibility includes accepting consequences.
• bloopernova 2y ago
  As a lawful permanent resident, I'm terrified of the country I've called home for a quarter century. I don't think I would have survived what the Canadian woman went through. EDIT: please call your congressperson and your senators. Tell them to stop this cruelty.
  • xtracto 2y ago
    Not sure if you read the whole article. But what REALLY scared me is not this women's experience, but the stories of the other people she met there: >I met a woman who had been on a road trip with her husband. She said they had 10-year work visas. While driving near the San Diego border, they mistakenly got into a lane leading to Mexico. They stopped and told the agent they didn’t have their passports on them, expecting to be redirected. Instead, they were detained. They are both pastors. That, and a couple of other stories of people stuck there in the ICE concentration camps are crazy! I am scared right now because in a couple of months I have to travel to LA (on a tourist visa) for a connecting flight to Japan ... to think that I can be "disappeared" at immigration just because the immigration agent doesn't like me is chilling.
    • bloopernova 2y ago
      Make sure you have as much documentation as possible printed in triplicate. Where you're staying, for how long, receipts and booking confirmation. Be very careful with any text messages that might sound "shady" to the very paranoid customs people. Have an exact itinerary showing step by step where, when, who.
      • realo 2y ago
        Ok... so if I understand you correctly, traveling to the US under the current regime is about the same as traveling to North Korea. Thank you for the heads up.
• sebstefan 2y ago
  >I was taken to the nurse’s office for a medical check. She asked what had happened to me. She had never seen a Canadian there before. When I told her my story, she grabbed my hand and said: “Do you believe in God?” >“I believe God brought you here for a reason,” she said. “I know it feels like your life is in a million pieces, but you will be OK. Through this, I think you are going to find a way to help others.” You've got to be fucked in the head to think this is an appropriate thing to do as an agent that's part of a federal process. Keep your god out of work!
  • ta1243 2y ago
    America has always been a theocracy under a veneer of democracy. She's lucky she didn't get renamed to Offred.
    • ajkjk 2y ago
      yeah no it hasn't
      • diggan 2y ago
        Isn't the bible involved in the whole inauguration part? Besides, candidates routinely discuss their faith, and "In God We Trust" appears on the currency. Edit: Hah, I just realized that congressional sessions open with prayer as well. Not sure what other countries does this?
        • ta1243 2y ago
          Freedom of religion means you get to choose which sect of Christianity you worship, and if you're quiet about it you're allowed to be Jewish.
        • ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
          The bible is involved at the behest of the inauguree; we've had christian presidents, and so they've largely sworn in on the bible. John Quincy Adams used a book of laws, and Coolidge didn't use a book at all (there are a couple others, but they were unintentional). Likewise, the US prayer is non-denominational (it typically is monotheistic though). Ireland, Canada, South Africa, and the UK also have parliamentary prayers. UK currency often features the letters "D.G.", which are the initials to a latin phrase meaning "by the grace of God", but other European currency references to God have ended with the switch to the Euro. The US certainly has above average entanglement of religiosity and governance, but hardly in a sense that makes it a theocracy. Politicians talking about faith and God is a very different thing from, eg, the country being run by the pope.
• littlestymaar 2y ago
  The part when you learn that these detention centers are for profit businesses really is the cherry on top of the dystopia.
• apwell23 2y ago
  > There were around 140 of us in our unit. Many women had lived and worked in the US legally for years but had overstayed their visas – often after reapplying and being denied. They had all been detained without warning. Yet they chose to feature this white person from a white country. This article reminds of beginning of ukraine war when US press was showing white ppl and saying "we need to stand with them because they are like us".
  • I-M-S 2y ago
    I am a dual-nation Canadian, with the other nationality held in much lower regard by the USA administration, meaning American conduct toward much of the world is not news to me. I believe a lot of resentment Canadians currently feel towards Americans boils down to being treated the way they treat any other undesirable country.
    • Filligree 2y ago
      …and the potential invasion? I’d be worried about that in your place. I’m worried about that as a Norwegian.
      • apwell23 2y ago
        most ppl in canada ( and usa) don't know where Norway is or if such a country actually exists. why are you worried about someone who doesn't give a fuck about norway. Why can't Norwegians mind their own business why is this so offensive to them that americans don't want to be friends with norway. totally entitled . " how dare you don't want to be friends, we are white too"
    • apwell23 2y ago
      > I believe a lot of resentment Canadians currently feel towards Americans boils down to being treated the way they treat any other undesirable country. yeah you nailed it perfectly. "how dare you deny us white status"
    • jeromegv 2y ago
• danmaz74 2y ago
  While reading, I felt such strong Kafka vibes in this story.
• elorm 2y ago
  This whole debacle scares me. It’s almost impossible to figure out the official reason she was flagged by the first border officer. She had a prior denial for a work visa. Then flew into San Diego to apply the second time and got it. Apparently, she should’ve applied via her consulate instead because of the prior denial ? Can someone explain in non legal terms why this resulted in a visa revocation and detention?
  • everfrustrated 2y ago
    If you've previously been denied a visa you're no longer able to use the visa on arrival system. Hence you need to apply for a visa before you travel.
    • mjevans 2y ago
      I think the question is: why were they even let in at the border crossing if it wasn't a valid entry? Shouldn't they have been turned back there?
      • deskamess 2y ago
        Very likely, that as a Canadian, you can enter the US without a visa as long as you do not work. You need a TN visa+status to work. So probably entered US on passport (no visa status) and then applied for TN... during which things went poorly.
• lenerdenator 2y ago
  Harris just wasn't appealing enough, eh?
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • betaby 2y ago
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jogger-who-accidentally-crossed-u-s-border-from-b-c-detained-for-2-weeks-1.4717060 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jogger-who-a...
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
• rapphil 2y ago
  I avoid even connection flights going through the US.
• ookblah 2y ago
  I don't know if it's just more media attention recently or what not, but I used to joke about not wanting to go to China because of these similar reasons. Strange feeling to recommend to friends visiting the US to now be just as careful. That story is honestly insane.
• anal_reactor 2y ago
  > That would be the response to nearly every question I would ask over the next two weeks: “I don’t know.” I'm disappointed, but not surprised. Observing how Americans function, it's very common for them to just let someone higher-up in the system take the responsibility, until the decision reaches a person who is so far removed from the human element they cannot possibly care. Case in point: once I messaged on a public Slack channel "hey I did this thing X, not sure if that's what I was supposed to do". Nobody said anything to me, two weeks later I got scheduled "just a quick sync" with HR. The HR employee was obviously on a different continent.
• dfedbeef 2y ago
  Yep. The police in the US are out of control; local, state and federal.
  • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    I like the idea of making cops wear bright pastel colors. It will have a chilling effect on the macho freaks
• hartator 2y ago
  > to help launch an American brand of health tonics called Holy! Water > contained hemp The actual company name is hempandhoneynj? That sells “ HIGH THC IS FOR EXPERIENCED CANNABIS USERS”. I don’t think weed is legal yet on the federal level. There is some grey ares are on the THC vs weed classification, but note that also harsher laws - like dealing drugs - could have applied here.
  • diggan 2y ago
    The THC is derived from legal hemp it seems, which is why they call it "Hemp" and not "Cannabis" in the article, I'm guessing. > Our Delta 9 THC is legal according to federal law and many state laws. All Delta 9 THC extract being offered is 100% derived from legal hemp and does not contain more than 0.3% ∆9THC. https://www.hempandhoneynj.com/product/holy-water-euphoric-ketone-energy-shot/1691 https://www.hempandhoneynj.com/product/holy-water-euphoric-k... So no, "harsher laws" couldn't apply here, as there are no scheduled drugs involved in either the process or final product.
    • hartator 2y ago
      That’s their claim on their website. How is it different from a local dealer: trust me cops won’t care? Federal law allowance on that 3% rule is very very narrow. And it’s highly likely that the THC is being re-enrich post haverst which then it is still not legal. “Harsher laws” are pretty harsh. Even if no violence just “easing distribution”, it’s a max sentence of 10-year.
      • diggan 2y ago
        I dunno, if we start making up things like "She said she isn't a criminal, but what if she actually launders money" and not take the article for what it says, what's the point of discussing all of this at all?
        • hartator 2y ago
          This immigration employee did decide to classify this enriched hemp as a controlled substance, yes. This doesn’t a crazy out of line interpretation of that 3% THC rule that seems like a legal hoop-hole, but it is just of the lack of enforcement of the law by other branches of the government that makes feel this way. It means to be accidental THC not laboratory enriched THC. Which is obviously the case here.
• the_af 2y ago
  Why do people want to live in the US and jump through all these hoops and be subject to arbitrary detentions, anyway? The bureaucracy is hellish. Many other countries have decent living conditions and don't randomly mistreat the people trying to make a living, nor do they behave understanding or cruel at the whim of whoever's in office. Or if they do, it's not as bad as in the US. Is it just that the US is closer to these people than other, saner countries? I can understand if that's the actual reason. Also: why do border officers have so much power? It seems wrong. They are low level employees, they shouldn't be able to change your life (or trip plans) just because they feel bored and want to spice things up.
  • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    > Also: why do border officers have so much power? It seems wrong. The US democratic process is not good at protecting small groups of disenfranchised people: Non-citizens, LGBTQ people, prisoners, etc. Those people get the burden of making their own allies and fighting their whole lives for rights, while most voters prefer not to think about them. Hell, black people are 12% of the population and their rights have been on the frontline for over 100 years. So many groups are even smaller. I'm not sure if any other country does this perfectly. Rawls' veil of ignorance is extremely hard to enforce in practice, no wonder we all live in Omelas.
  • oefrha 2y ago
    > Why do people want to live in the US and jump through all these hoops and be subject to arbitrary detentions, anyway? Lots of people, especially those from third world countries, don’t know what they are getting into. They’ve been brainwashed into believing “the American dream” (that anyone can find good jobs, be homeowners, etc.) by movies, television, social media, and other immigrants making money in the immigration business (many of whom were, ironically, lured in by their predecessors and ended up not able to find the dream jobs they were promised). This is why you hear about people blowing $10-100k on gang trafficking services to get in from Mexico, which is super puzzling otherwise when you consider that kind of money goes a long way in their home countries.
    • 2y ago
• Mashimo 2y ago
  What is the benefit of leaving the lights on 24/7? You weaken the inmate, but how does the prison make more profit from that?
  • ta1243 2y ago
    It's punishment, which leads to the average american cheering and saying "yes, more!", meaning more support to the system.
    • themaninthedark 2y ago
      If they turn off or down the light and someone injures another or gets seriously sick then there is a lawsuit. Layers claim the guards didn't notice because the low light. Jury finds that is a factor and awards. Now it is policy in all detention centers to keep light on.
  • b3lvedere 2y ago
    More detuctable costs Weakened inmates hopefully will not start a riot.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • stackskipton 2y ago
    Lowers guard costs. If you turn down the lights, you need more guards and they are more at risk. Lights on, they can easily see and react so you need fewer.
• liendolucas 2y ago
  These things wouldn't definitely happen if a reciprocity policy would be in effect. The problem is that if you apply this policy against the US, a country pays its consequences either directly or indirectly. If all countries at least in America agree on to apply reciprocity, maybe things would change a little.
  • Tostino 2y ago
    I think boycotting the US would be a more effective option, and I say that as someone who lives in FL (which depends on international tourism heavily).
• Karsteski 2y ago
  Wow this sort of scenario is my nightmare. I'm an immigrant in Canada and even though I've been able to go to the US for years, I really have no interest in going, partially due to fear of something like this happening to me. I could easily drive to the US in less than two hours, but no thanks.
  • pm3003 2y ago
    As a young man I travelled a lot (US only twice, Canada once) in democracies and authoritarian regimes and quickly took the habit of always having some sort of paper on me (passport, copy of the visa and passport, city/tax registration...) depending on the place. I was controlled countless times, I thought at the time I didn't stand out much but I probably did. I was always unlikely to be detained, but vehicle / luggage searches, questions etc can be a huge waste of time so better show some paperwork that will cut the questioning short and not risk missing your bus/flight/train/meeting etc. It sometimes even helped to get into nightclubs...
• Fizzadar 2y ago
  When I was younger I used to dream of living/working in the US. Now I’m hesitant to even visit as a tourist, despite many trips as a child (which we absolutely loved). Not worth the risk.
• notme2025 2y ago
  Throwaway for obvious reasons. There was another similar story reported previously [1]. On that same week, I traveled to Canada. I'm from America but not the US, I have a tourist visa for Canada valid for the next 5 years or so. I've entered Canada many times in the past, zero issues. Zero criminal records, not even traffic violations on my record in any country whatsoever. Upon scanning my passport I was immediately sent to a different queue for inspection. Similar behavior, when the border officer asked me why I am in Canada I told them I was visiting, when they asked what I do for a living I told them I didn't have a job, I have a healthy dose of savings that allow me to not work for a while and just travel, as I have done several times in the past. They told me that was "shady", I was interrogated by two officers for about an hour, they asked me about everything, then was sent to a room to wait (it was a comfortable place, to their favor), about half an hour later they come back and tell me I'm allowed to enter but I have to report back to them, physically, in a month and leave the country the same day. Obviously I didn't have it as bad as these two girls, but in my own timeline, it was definitely the worse border crossing experience I've ever had. A few weeks before that I was in Mexico, and the border officers where also quite intrusive and thorough with everybody. This almost never happens in Mexico, everyone just goes in, no questions asked. Since all of this has happened during these past weeks, my conclusion is that, in general, border officials in North America have been told to be very though with all immigrants, perhaps fueled by the demands of the Trump administration. I also think, unfortunately, that this situation will only get worse as borders and international travel will become more and more scrutinized. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43324040 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43324040
• helaoban 2y ago
  I'm sorry, but the article seems to obscure a key fact, which is that she travelled to the US AFTER her initial visa was revoked. It seems dumb to travel to a country that has explicitly revoked your visa without being granted a new one! Nobody stopped her from getting on a plane because nobody checks if Canadians have a visa or not since they don't need one for short visits or stays. In this case her visa was revoked, so she was probably flagged in the system as temporarily not allowed in. This is speculation, but maybe somebody here can weigh on the technicalities of the situation. This is not to excuse the inhumane treatment, which if true is disgusting. Dealing with the CBP is always negative, even as a citizen (when returning from abroad). Edit: This really stretches credulity: > I was taken to the nurse’s office for a medical check. She asked what had happened to me. She had never seen a Canadian there before. When I told her my story, she grabbed my hand and said: “Do you believe in God?” Edit2 (more dumb): > There were around 140 of us in our unit. Many women had lived and worked in the US legally for years but had overstayed their visas – often after reapplying and being denied. They had all been detained without warning >Another woman from Canada had been living in the US with her husband who was detained after a traffic stop. She admitted she had overstayed her visa and accepted that she would be deported. But she had been stuck in the system for almost six weeks because she hadn’t had her passport. Who runs casual errands with their passport? Really? Not having your passport on you is the big mistake here? Edit 3 (Even more dumb): > One woman had been offered asylum in Mexico within two weeks but had been encouraged to keep going to the US. Now, she was stuck, living in a nightmare, separated from her young children for months. She sobbed, telling me how she felt like the worst mother in the world. > Many of these women were highly educated and spoke multiple languages. Yet, they had been advised to pretend they didn’t speak English because it would supposedly increase their chances of asylum. Trying to game the asylum system by lying to immigration authorities. I'm not sure how all these cases are supposed to sustain the main thrust of the article, which is that all these people are innocent victims of some Kafkaesque nightmare for which they bear no responsibility. They clearly do. We shouldn't be treating people like this period, but this is just really stupid behavior.
  • Tostino 2y ago
    I'm sorry, what? You think that stretches credulity? Oh man you must be lucky to not live around these types of people. I remember the first time I was told I was going to burn in hell for eternity. At my first job at 16 by some coworkers in their 20s and 30s because I wasn't participating in their constant religion talk so it made it clear I wasn't part of "the group".
• adamc 2y ago
  Why do people flag posts like this?
  • mdp2021 2y ago
    There is a surge about flagging submissions that some may find uncomfortable. This could be related to a surge of uncomfortable pieces of news.
  • culebron21 2y ago
    Right-wing snowflakes fighting for safe spaces? /s
• JeremyNT 2y ago
  Flagged, of course, to death. This is an important story of US decline. This woman was here to do business. To work with Americans. If you're flagging this because you're a part of the tech right, who thinks these policies are somehow good for you, maybe hold off on that flag button and let the discussion play out here. Think about what happens if people from the rest of the world are terrified of working within this country.
  • Febra33 2y ago
    Sadly too many people on HN are part of the tech right, or straight up crypto bros and hate seeing these headlines.
  • greatpatton 2y ago
    I think I will just skip HN in the future. The number of relevant post to tech and business in the US now that are getting flagged is becoming ridiculous.
    • mdp2021 2y ago
      Let me offer my approval (over the argument, not necessarily about the conclusion). It is not just about assessing reality, but _there is_ a large and greatly important component of, simply, assessing reality!
    • mandmandam 2y ago
      It is ridiculous, extremely so. It's also bizarre, disturbing, and honestly kind of demeaning. Not to mention dangerous, for the tech community and many more. And it is very likely being condoned right from the top. Garry Tan is a big DOGE fan on Twitter, as is PG.
    • f38zf5vdt 2y ago
      There's always https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active It's embarrassing that to get to the content that technofascists don't want you to see, you need to visit a secret URL.
    • 2y ago
• Febra33 2y ago
  I have family in the US that I used to visit on a yearly basis, and as of this year I am afraid to visit them ever again. I'm an engineer with a very good income and a very stable life where I live. I would never immigrate illegally to the US to do some illegal job for scraps. And yet here we are, no one is safe. Anyone can end up in one of these hellholes.
  • account42 2y ago
    No one is safe from putting fear in their own minds, yes. But you don't have to do that.
    • Febra33 2y ago
      I'd rather not play stupid games for barely a prize worth it. With other words, I don't want US immigrations officers going through my phone, seeing a Trump critical message and throwing me into a hole for two weeks. I'd rather pick safer destinations :)
• elephanlemon 2y ago
  “All of these women told me that they had been detained for time spans ranging from a few weeks to 10 months.” Is this an error or was some of this going on during the previous administration?
  • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    It's always been bad, but the difference is that Republicans want it to be bad and get worse. They delight in cruelty and anyone who doesn't see that has been sold a lie
• abeppu 2y ago
  Her point about private contractors being paid by the number of people detained is an important larger warning. Privatized systems are not magically more efficient; they can just as easily be the driver of the bureaucratic labyrinth.
  • javcasas 2y ago
    Perverse incentives. Someone didn't think about it, or maybe they did.
    • FireBeyond 2y ago
      Hell, even without the private aspect. Prison guard unions universally and almost exclusively oppose any legalization and decriminalization efforts, regardless of the subject.
    • johnnyanmac 2y ago
      oh they very much did. There's still a lot of people in the country that want any excuse to practice cruelty without consequence.
• culebron21 2y ago
  In 1992, I could only dream of going to the US. When I got money and thought of travelling, I quickly realized it's too hard and humiliating to get visa, and preferred EU instead. And visa-free countries afterwards. Then I planned to have kids and started contemplating what are costs, social security payments, public kindergartens, sick leaves, costs of ambulance (like if you break a spine), or giving a birth... and the US suddenly turned very, very unattractive. Even without these horror stories.
• greggyb 2y ago
  Why is this flagged? First of all, it's about an entrepreneur traveling to the US for a startup, which is directly relevant to a significant proportion of YCombinator founders themselves. Beyond its direct relevance to the core founding audience of HN, it is not clickbait or wantonly inflammatory, and is clearly of interest to many based on the comment activity and votes.
  • sejje 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • causal 2y ago
      This is an article about immigration which is highly relevant to US tech
      • sejje 2y ago
        Would they cover it on TV news? There's little-to-no discussion about the implications on tech, based on my reading of the comments. Just general politics and nationalism.
        • causal 2y ago
          There is a lot of discussion in this thread on the implications to tech - you see people actively changing their travel plans as a result. We are going to lose tech workers because of how dangerous it is becoming to make the slightest misstep while traveling in the US.
        • Teever 2y ago
          Hackernews has those monthly official posts from that immigration lawyer proberts, immigration stuff is highly important to HN and the users here. https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=proberts https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=proberts
          • 2y ago
• mgh2 2y ago
  Can more information be provided to make sure this is a true story or a political campaign ad? Is this why it is flagged?
  • diggan 2y ago
    > Can more information be provided to make sure this is a true story Here you have 124 sources (and counting), from all sides of the political spectrum: https://ground.news/article/canadian-woman-says-she-was-wrapped-in-chains-detained-by-ice-while-trying-to-get-a-new-visa_79ba32 https://ground.news/article/canadian-woman-says-she-was-wrap...
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    • account42 2y ago
      124 re-edits of the same news wire does not equal 124 sources.
      • diggan 2y ago
        Agree, but that collection certainly amounts to more than 1 source, since many of the articles have first-hand reporting, and some even their own interviews with Mooney.
  • cafard 2y ago
    Campaign ad? The next federal elections are 20 months out.
    • mgh2 2y ago
      Ok "political propaganda", think of media as a brainwashing machine, it needs time to sink in: repetition -> familiarity -> truth -> votes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect Which makes me wonder of the "124 sources", most from repetition: https://bradonomics.com/trust-me-im-lying-summary/ https://bradonomics.com/trust-me-im-lying-summary/
• adamc 2y ago
  That people are flagging this as somehow irrelevant says a lot of bad things about the audience at hacker news.
• ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
  If this woman ever sets foot in the US again, I will have absolutely no sympathy for her.
  • jeromegv 2y ago
    Don't worry, a lot of us are already stopping spending money in your country. Cross-border trips to the U.S. reach COVID lows with nearly 500,000 fewer travellers in February https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cross-border-trips-decline-235k-february-1.7485695 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cross-border-trips-decline-...
    • ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
      That is not "my country". I am not saying they were right, but that she would be an idiot to submit herself to their jurisdiction yet again.
• throw7 2y ago
  This is normal immigration. People caught in these "constitution free"/immigration zones need to be processed a lot faster. It's a safe bet this girl got out "fast" because of the outside pressure. We need to be hiring a lot more immigration judges/personnel that adjudicate and process these people out of the public/private prison complex.
  • slekker 2y ago
    Did you read the article? It was precisely because of the media attention that she got out fast, she even said so herself.
• ainiriand 2y ago
  Yeah basically the US is no-visit now. It is too risky.
• ethagnawl 2y ago
  Why was this flagged? Aside from being absolutely terrifying (even as an American), it's directly relevant to large swaths of HN who are/might consider coming to the US to work on an H1B or similar visa or are looking to hire people in the same way.
  • bloopernova 2y ago
    Bad actors like to suppress discussion uncomfortable to them. They use ambiguity in rules to cover their actions as "just following the rules!" They know full well what they're doing and why.
• rdm_blackhole 2y ago
  It's not just the US that has these draconian and abusive laws. In the UK you can be detained at the border without being given any reasons why, you don't have the right to a lawyer and you don't have the right to NOT answer the questions of the border agents. You also have to disclose the passwords to your phone and computer. Then,they usually seize your devices for an arbitrary amount of time before eventually releasing you. This applies to British citizens or foreigners. It seems that the world is slowly but surely sliding in the wrong direction.
• reverendsteveii 2y ago
  There is no law in America, only money and violence.
• zx8080 2y ago
  > It was unclear why Mooney’s earlier visa was revoked, or why she was at the southern border this month. However, she told ABC she got her first visa at the San Ysidro border crossing on the advice of a Los Angeles attorney, who met her at the border, and therefore may have thought it would work a second time at that location. Is her incompetent attorney committing some violation here? Or is it just a trash PR to grab some likes and subscribers?
• RobertRoberts 2y ago
  I have a close relationship with a Chinese national that is going through the US immigration process. His view on situations like this are enlightening. He knows the difference between true dictatorships and political wranglings in the news. No system is perfect, and bad things happen to good people every day. In this circumstance, it looks like this person didn't follow all the appropriate rules related to the entering the US. (visa issues) My Chinese friend does not understand why people try to break the rules, get caught, and cry foul. Your treatment in his home country would be considerably worse. He is following all the laws to get US citizenship. Should his due diligence be considered a waste of time? I also had a relative that overstayed her visa in a foreign country and was constantly afraid of being deported. Why should the expectations of foreigners in US be different from every other country in the world?
  • maxglute 2y ago
    > treatment in his home country would be considerably worse. If you enter PRC on bad VISA you chill at the airport transit area and deported on next available flight. None of this for profit multi week detention to milk ICE contracts.
    • account42 2y ago
      And if you come back and try again at a different location? Customs checks aren't perfect so it makes sense to up the consequences if you are found to be trying to work around them.
  • jeromegv 2y ago
    She was refused to enter the US, which is fine, this is the US rights to deny if you don't follow due process. But she didn't try to hide it or overstay her visa, she was coming through the border and was forthcoming about applying for the visa. But instead of sending her back, they put her in jail for 2 weeks. Could have been longer without media attention. There was no process for her, once within the walls, to get herself out. > Why should the expectations of foreigners in US be different from every other country in the world? Are you telling me this is common in any other country in the world to be denied entry and then put in jail instead of just be sent back?
• 1024core 2y ago
  > The reality became clear: Ice detention isn’t just a bureaucratic nightmare. Why is it so hard to write "ICE" ? It is an acronym.
  • dragonwriter 2y ago
    > Why is it so hard to write "ICE" ? It is an acronym. Setting acronyms in all-caps is a common American stylistic choice, but far from universal in English language writing; initial-cap for acronyms and all-caps for non-acronym initialisms is also a common style, globally, in written English.
    • AnimalMuppet 2y ago
      What's a "non-acronym initialism"?
      • dragonwriter 2y ago
        https://www.writersdigest.com/write-better-fiction/abbreviation-vs-acronym-vs-initialism-grammar-rules https://www.writersdigest.com/write-better-fiction/abbreviat...
        • AnimalMuppet 2y ago
          Huh. TIL. Thanks!
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  • joquarky 2y ago
    I remember when people used to put dots after each letter, making it very clear. Now the burden is on the reader.
• TriangleEdge 2y ago
  I've been issued a five year bar for visiting someone in the US while unemployed. My immigration lawyer told me it's the weakest case he had ever seen. It took two years for the appeal to be approved. I had worked in the US on TN visas twice before, and never overstayed. It felt like they were just trying to meet a quota. Edit: I had applied for a GC years before this happened, so I think the officer thought I didn't want to leave. This was not the case however. The case had been approved but not processed.
  • leereeves 2y ago
    When did that happen? If it took two years for the appeal to be approved, it must have happened a while ago.
    • TriangleEdge 2y ago
      About three years ago. My lawyer told me it used to take one year, but got bumped to two recently.
  • mgh2 2y ago
    Do you care to share more details? What questions did they ask and what were your replies?
    • TriangleEdge 2y ago
      The officers were "dirty". They brought me in a room to do an interrogation where one officer asked questions and the other took notes on an old computer. I literally told them: "I am not going to stay past my return date" and the officer asking questions told the officer taking notes to not write that down. They asked who my parents were, how much money I had, my employment history, what I did in the US while working on my previous TN, if I was in danger, etc.. They asked if I was applying for jobs and I said yes because I was unemployed. They then asked if the jobs were in the US and I said I would accept another TN job if I could. They call the process a "sworn statement". For those of you who go through that, don't agree to the statement if they modified it, like mine. There's no cameras or recording devices so they can be dirty, and they abuse that fact. You have no rights at all at the border, and your assumptions on decency and honesty are not correct. My assumption to this day is that they thought I was trying to work illegally, but this is not the case.
• steviedotboston 2y ago
  Her visa was revoked, and then she entered the US again. That's an immigration offense that can get you detained at the border (any international airport).
  • deskamess 2y ago
    Correct me if I am wrong... she was actually in the US to apply for a new visa with a new company and not on business with the old company.
    • steviedotboston 2y ago
      You apply for a visa in your country of residence. If you are in the US already you need to have a valid visa.
• refurb 2y ago
  Apparently she broke several rules and it’s bordering on fraud. - She worked in LA on a TN that was revoked - She applied for a TN visa at the Canadian border and was denied - She then flew to Mexico to try again at the San Diego border (USCBP can see this and explicitly say not to “crossing shop”) - Her new TN was sponsored by a company she owns for another drinks company she also owns (you can’t self-sponsor a TN visa) - The company she was consulting for was making THC drinks which are still illegal under USA federal law My guess is she was questioned and determined to be committing immigration fraud and was detained until she could be deported
  • AlecSchueler 2y ago
    So deny her entry and let her airline deal with returning her? Why did she need to be imprisoned? International Law says that if you're denied entry the onus is on your flight carrier to return you, which is a private matter between you and the carrier.
    • lazerpants 2y ago
      She was at the land border crossing between Tijuana and San Diego. Still not an excuse for her uncontested deportation to take two weeks though.
    • refurb 2y ago
      She crossed the land border - there is no airline.
      • AlecSchueler 2y ago
        Ah, even easier then, just tell her to turn around.
        • refurb 2y ago
          USCBP can't deport someone to a country they aren't a citizen of. Mexico doesn't want that problem dumped on them.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• anonshadow 2y ago
  This is the money shot : "Companies like CoreCivic and GEO Group receive government funding based on the number of people they detain, which is why they lobby for stricter immigration policies. It’s a lucrative business: CoreCivic made over $560m from Ice contracts in a single year. In 2024, GEO Group made more than $763m from Ice contracts. The more detainees, the more money they make. It stands to reason that these companies have no incentive to release people quickly. What I had experienced was finally starting to make sense."
  • bojangleslover 2y ago
    Makes complete sense to me. That's how every other business works. Number of detainees is a mostly linear input (aside from the real estate) to opex.
  • tim333 2y ago
    I don't get the " tiny, freezing cement cell with bright fluorescent lights" and a foil blanket thing though. Why be so nasty? If you are making a business improperly detaining people it would only be likely to cause outrage and get it shut down? I'm curious as a non American why no one stops this. I mean presumably both political parties have not bothered. Do people in the US think it's ok? I think if that stuff happened in the UK there would be a lot of protests.
    • dfox 2y ago
      Cost optimization.
    • femiagbabiaka 2y ago
      Simple. It doesn't cause (genuine) outrage and it doesn't get them shut down. AOC for example, protested these private prisons during Trump's first term and went silent on them when Biden didn't close them.
      • runarberg 2y ago
        Here is a tweet from soon after Biden took office in January 2021: > People must understand the depth of what’s happening here: the President of the United States has ordered a halt to deportations. ICE, a federal agency, is refusing to comply. > There’s no reforming this rogue dept. It’s time for a new, just vision. https://x.com/AOC/status/1354211627940384768 https://x.com/AOC/status/1354211627940384768 A month later she was criticizing DHS for still having Patriot act powers, and lumped ICE with the same criticism: > People have been writing about the deeply concerning issues with the structure of DHS for a long time. > This is from 3 years before I was even elected. > It’s not “fringe” to ask why FEMA & ICE are in the same Dept operation. Or question ICE’s operations https://x.com/AOC/status/1364619004921413633 https://x.com/AOC/status/1364619004921413633 A day earlier she called for the abolition of ICE: > It’s only 2 mos into this admin & our fraught, unjust immigration system will not transform in that time. > That’s why bold reimagination is so impt. > DHS shouldn’t exist, agencies should be reorganized, ICE gotta go, ban for-profit detention, create climate refugee status & more. This one is very apt given OP. https://x.com/AOC/status/1364349732760518657 https://x.com/AOC/status/1364349732760518657 She continued, this on is in April 2021: > A lot of people who are just now suddenly horrified at the dehumanizing conditions at our border are the same folks who dehumanize immigrants + helped build these cages in the 1st place. > When we tried to stop this infrastructure over a year ago,we were overruled by BOTH parties. > Fact is a lot of the politicians crying right now don’t work to solve either. > They vote to grow ICE + CBP cages and they do everything to avoid addressing the root: US foreign policy and interventionism that destabilizes regions, the climate crisis, and unjust economic policy. https://x.com/AOC/status/1377652851191787532 https://x.com/AOC/status/1377652851191787532 Your statement that Alexandria Ocasia-Cortez stopped protesting these private prisons while Biden was in office is simply factually wrong. And it was not hard to check it.
• sireat 2y ago
  I actually spent two days of "quality" time at Otay Mesa detention center (or the male version of it nearby) some 20+ years ago. I shudder to think what it would be like in the current climate. I had overstayed my student visa but that was the extent of my crime. For that I had the pleasure of being shackled and bussed from the inland checkpoint (the one on 5 freeway) to the detention center. The worst part is the uncertainty, once you are at a detention center - you have no idea what/when is something going to happen. There is no information flow besides my one phone call. You have to be happy with your daily burritos and then hope you make some friends and no enemies. Weird thing happens to your brain in these type of uncertain places, you sort of dissociate from what is happening to you. Some sort of defense mechanism I suppose. I mean how do you respond when the boyfriend of the "main" guy at the facility asks "Don't I know you from somewhere?". In the end I was incredibly lucky - I actually knew a lawyer to call - and that must have helped me. Most of the people inside had been in detention for weeks with only rough knowledge that at some point they would be deported or possibly set free. So I had my hearing in front of judge some months later and I agreed for "voluntary departure" and 10 year ban. Since then I am on some sort of blacklist for life. Each time I've come back to US, I've have had to spend 2-3 hours at CPB interview room, which if you want to hear human misery from around the world is the place to be. There is some sort of queue but it is rather haphazard. Again you have this incredible uncertainty when you will get out of this room. Again, I am extremely lucky, I've had very pleasant CPB officers so far and they are either indifferent or sympathetic to my case. Last time I was simply given passport without explanation after 2 hour wait with no interview at all! Then again I've only traveled to US when current administration is not aggressively posturing.
• nonford150 2y ago
  One item not being discussed is this took place during the last administration - not Trump 2.0. None of this is new - it's being going on for years.
  • timbit42 2y ago
    No, it took place earlier this month.
• brailsafe 2y ago
  I already generally hate the experience of travelling through ports of entry into the U.S, have been searched numerous times, and often on the way back into Canada but it's usually much less onerous; every country I've visited has been much more tolerable, regardless of Trump. I'm travelling in soon for a reason that's almost work for the first time—attending a work related event—and technically should be able to visa-free, but these stories are making me a bit nervous. Flying 10hrs back is not ideal, but being stuck for 2 weeks would fuck up my year.
• casenmgreen 2y ago
  Guardian is a reputable, sound left-wing newspaper in the UK. I'm not a fan, because I'm not in favour of State-run services, but they make what seems to me to be a sound point; that where ICE is private, but State funded, processing people takes the longest possible time because the longer the process takes, the more money they earn. This would also be why conditions are brutal and so inhumane; it's cheaper. Charlie Munger I think wrote something like if you give people stupid incentives, you get stupid outcomes. On the face of it, this looks like that, with the added complication the lunatics now running place would say this treatment is desirable. Question then is how do you set up a State-funded privately run system to behave in the ways you do want, with rapid processing and humane treatment of people.
• ElevenLathe 2y ago
  I would like to remind everyone assuming that some kind of hassles at the border are normal and necessary (even if the specifics of this one make you mad) that this is NOT the case. Our current international regime of widespread passports, residency permits, visas, and border checks is barely 100 years old. Even in my lifetime (pre-9/11) the US-Canada border was a passport-free affair: just show the border guard your drivers' license (if you were the driver) and tell them you had nothing to declare -- they knew you were lying but didn't care. It is not an iron law that international borders have to be dystopian "papers please" civil-liberties-optional free-fire zones. There is little point in the US policing either land border at all, but hassling NAFTA citizens (aka Canadians and Mexicans) traveling on business is especially absurd. A Schengen-style regime in North America (it's only THREE countries, should be pretty easy!) is way beyond overdue, but it seems like we're instead headed in the opposite direction as fast as we possibly can. Open borders are the default state of the world. Anything interfering with our ability to travel should be in response to a specific, real problem. Instead, we've handed the door keys to our whole country to a handful of cops and private contractors who get paid more when they hassle us more.
  • reportgunner 2y ago
    Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
• axiologist 2y ago
  Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43417136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43417136
• rayiner 2y ago
  This lady is sketchy as hell. First, the U.S. revoked her visa: > He revoked my visa, and told me I could still work for the company from Canada, but if I wanted to return to the US, I would need to reapply. She's Canadian and lives in Canada, so she returned to Canada. But instead of applying for a visa again, she apparently flew to Mexico and tried to get in through the southern border: > I restarted the visa process and returned to the same immigration office at the San Diego border, since they had processed my visa before and I was familiar with it. Last I checked San Diego doesn't share a border with Canada. Why is a Canadian with a revoked Visa flying to Mexico to try and enter the U.S. through the southern border?
• moltar 2y ago
  That’s exactly why, as a Canadian, I don’t travel to US, or even transit through US. Border was always a terrible and hostile experience. I’ll fly longer and pay more to avoid this.
• qwertox 2y ago
  > The officer I spoke to was kind but told me that, due to my previous issues, I needed to apply for my visa through the consulate. I told her I hadn’t been aware I needed to apply that way, but had no problem doing it. "If she stays so kind and accepts what she's been told without protesting, she must be hiding something. That's criminal enough for us."
• parliament32 2y ago
  The story is good, but there are some interesting bits they mention in passing. Keys for why this all went so wrong: "I was granted my trade Nafta work visa, which allows Canadian and Mexican citizens to work in the US in specific professional occupations, on my second attempt... I had gone to the San Diego border the second time to apply." So: she tried to get a work visa, was denied. Hired a San Diego lawyer, entered from Mexico, got her visa granted. Went home, tried to enter the country again, got her visa revoked and told to speak to a consulate. Then tried to enter again from Mexico, at that point she got detained. Maybe all this could've been avoided if she did the visa paperwork through the consulate, like she was told to do, instead of showing up at a land crossing after her visa was revoked? A land crossing from a country she has no status in (Mexico), especially. Presumably she was detained because they couldn't just turn her around back into Mexico.
  • lurk2 2y ago
    I read this story and it struck me as suspicious for the same reason. Peter Roberts (an immigration attorney) commented on it here a few days ago: > That's extraordinarily unusual and in my experience has only happened when CBP believes that the applicant was lying or has a criminal record so I wouldn't base the decision on where/how to apply on this very low risk. Depending on the TN application, there are better and worse ways to apply for a TN and from an outcome standpoint, sometimes it's better to apply with CBP at the border or with CBP at a U.S. airport by flying directly to the U.S. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43363854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43363854
• 486sx33 2y ago
  And her business is selling drinks infused with hemp which is federally illegal. A TN visa is a non immigrant visa, you should not be building a life in the US with it.
• freen 2y ago
  Question for folks not in the USA: has your willingness to travel to the United States changed? Would you attend a conference/meeting/university in the US? America First means America Isolated. Also, this isn’t the first time we’ve seen “America first” as a political slogan, and, well, Dr Seuss said it best. https://jimsmash.blogspot.com/2017/02/america-first-2-dr-seuss-cartoons-from.html https://jimsmash.blogspot.com/2017/02/america-first-2-dr-seu... The history of “America First”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee