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How I got 100% off my train travel
- celticninja 2y agoThere is a slightly less ethical way to do this, you buy a ticket that mows you to travel at any time of day. Then when you have made your trip log on to realtimetrains to find a train on your route that was delayed and then claim that as your journey. Now your ticket is sometimes scanned when you enter or leave a station but this is rare and even less likely to be scanned on the train by a conductor. Anyway that is something that someone could do
- ColinWright 2y agoI know people who have done this, but in my mind this is not simply slightly less ethical, is is active fraud.
- celticninja 2y agoYour mind is correct.
- rtkwe 2y agoReminds me of the "Chase Infinite Money Glitch" micro fad from last year. Turns out fraud really is pathway to many forms of free goods the law would consider illegal. Wonder how many people wound up getting hit with check fraud charges off of that...
- edh649 2y agoYou could do, but might be caught as 2 were in 2016 https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/commuters-ordered-to-repay-thousands-after-southern-railway-compensation-scam-a3178031.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/commuters-ordered-to-repa...
- bonobocop 2y agoThe DR system doesn’t look at ticket scans alone. It also builds a profile per customer based on a number data points. It will flag up quite quickly if you are “sniping” delayed trains at different times.
- switch007 2y agoIANAL but that is 100% straight up fraud. It's the most common accusation I believe regarding delay repay (and the train companies allege it is indeed fraud) Do not mess with the railways and their revenue in England.
- dlcarrier 2y agoWhere I live, in the US, the income from light rail fair payers is a laughably small portion of the operating budget, so all rides are effectively discounted by 90%+. The fares really only exist to keep homeless people from sheltering on the trains, but they do that anyway, without a ticket. Somehow the prices are still high enough that it's cheaper to buy a cheap used car and drive it instead.
- WaxProlix 2y ago> Somehow the prices are still high enough that it's cheaper to buy a cheap used car and drive it instead. Cars are even more heavily subsidized, maybe?
- dbspin 2y agoFind this curious. Surely factoring in the cost of tax and insurance greatly increases the cost of the used car? I'm based in Europe so perhaps things are radically different in the US.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoThe difference is that in America we have politicians who cultivate a fear of cities, public transportation, and not owning a bigger car than you need.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago...there's also the kind of housing uncertainty where "maybe I'll have to live in that car for a bit" is often a consideration. You might get away with living on the train for a little while, but a car is a much better bet.
- gnarlynarwhal42 2y ago"often" seems slightly hyperbolic...
- stego-tech 2y agoThis seems the perfect setup for malicious compliance of arbitrary RTO policies. * You may very well be more productive on a quiet train than a noisy office * Inconsistent WiFi coverage could let you focus on work instead of video conferencing meetings * Arriving late means you don’t have to stay long - not your fault the train was delayed, after all! Your employer gets the badge data showing you technically showed up, you have the receipts on why you were late, and you get a partial or full refund on the delayed train fare for good measure.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- thi2 2y agoDoes it work that way where you are from? Here in Germany it is entirely the workers responsibility to arrive on time, being repeatedly late can lead to being fired. Usually everyone knows how bad the trains are and it's not enforced strictly but thats just the employers good will.
- stego-tech 2y agoI'm from the States, but it generally varies from employer to employer and role to role. If you're sitting on a support queue in a specific time zone then yes, there's often an expectation of consistent hours; for more general office work (especially since COVID), there's often an understood degree of flexibility in most cases. As for transit delays, yes, those are also often excused within reason so long as there's not a recurring pattern. Still, hybrid work policies give workers wiggle room to reasonably challenge these requirements, especially if they're already completing all assigned work from home without issue, and that's the main point I was trying to make with my comment. Labor is ultimately a negotiation, and this is one such tactic to take if it's available to you.
- sarreph 2y agoThe UK train system is a dire, expensive mess. Attempting to avoid getting directly political here, but I strongly believe it’s one of the lowest hanging fruit a political party could act on to curry favour with the electorate. Would be amazing to see this productised à la the way split ticketing works.
- controlledchaos 2y agoAs a North American who travels in the UK multiple times per year, I really need you to elaborate. My experience has been nothing less than amazing, in comparison to the complete lack of rail options at home.
- djhworld 2y agoIf you travel in and around the South East, inc. London the service is pretty good, regular although still very very expensive. In the north though it’s a mixed bag, frequently delayed, huge underinvestment, expensive etc.
- Moomoomoo309 2y agoYou have to remember what public transit is like in NA. What in Europe is unacceptable, late frequently, and problematic, is probably the best public transit someone from NA has ever been on, except maybe the NYC subway. It's a really, really low bar. NJTransit is considered one of the best in the US (and it is, unfortunately), and it's worse than anything I saw in Europe when I visited.
- drstewart 2y agoFrom NA The UK definitely does not have the best public transit I've ever seen. ESPECIALLY for the price.
- thebruce87m 2y agoNote that when an English person says the north, they expect everyone to know they are talking specifically about the north of England, not the north of the UK even if everyone else is talking about the UK.
- sebtron 2y ago> Avanti West Coast offers customers: > 15 minutes — 25% off > 30 minutes — 50% off > 1 hour + — 100% off To me they look like very generous refund policies. I checked Italy's Trenitalia and what they offer is[1]: > 30-119 minutes: 25% > 120+ minutes: 50% I suppose anything below 30 minutes is consideres "on time". [1] https://www.trenitalia.com/it/informazioni/indennizzo_per_ritardodeltreno.html https://www.trenitalia.com/it/informazioni/indennizzo_per_ri...
- dylan604 2y ago> I suppose anything below 30 minutes is consideres "on time". sounds about right for the stereotype. it's the 'murikans that are the ones so uptight about time
- ikawe 2y agoI think by and large this doesn’t play out with trains. American trains tend to be much less frequent, slower, and less comfortable than most European trains. I road a swiss train a couple years ago that was something like 5 minutes late. To me (American) it was “on time” but the conductor came on the PA and apologized. He did make a point to clarify the delay was because they’d been stuck behind an off schedule German train.
- worldsayshi 2y agoIt would be so great if the rest of the world could take inspiration from Switzerland and Japan regarding train management. Also perhaps Ukraine. I heard they had stepped up during war time to the point of being more punctual than many other European countries.
- dan-robertson 2y agoSwiss trains are often on time because they are deliberately slow, and so they can speed up a bit if things are delayed. They are sometimes deliberately slow because the Swiss system is designed to have trains arrive and leave interchange stations at the same time to make changing trains easier. Some are also slow because they take routes that wind along mountainsides which are scenic but not particularly direct.
- diffuse_l 2y agoThis reminds me that I once worked in one city, and attended university in another city. At some point, there were train lines works that lasted for a few years, which meant that almost any train ride was delayed. You got a ticket back for half an hour delay, and two for a full hour. In addition, my workplace paid me a set amount of money to cover ttain travel expenses for each work day. I think that for most of my studies I effectively didn't pay for train travel, and had time to work while on the train. You did have to wait in line to get the ticket after the train ride, and the train officer wasn't too happy about giving out tickets, bit it usually worked...
- weinzierl 2y agoIn Germany you can use https://bahnvorhersage.de https://bahnvorhersage.de It is meant to be used to find reliable connections, but of course you can use it to save money as described in the article. Here is the 38c3 talk about the project from one the creators: https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-wann-klappt-der-anschluss-wann-nicht-und-wie-sagt-man-chaos-vorher https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-wann-klappt-der-anschluss-wann-n...
- probably_wrong 2y agoThe talk is great and I can definitely recommend it. The website doesn't seem to work in any of my browsers.
- switch007 2y agoI'd heavily caution people against this. The railway operators are both litigious and invested in fraud detection technology. And they love going on fishing exercises Consistent 100% delay repay will absolutely get flagged
- monkey_monkey 2y agoWhat's fraudulent about this?
- bonobocop 2y agoI don’t think it’s fraud on the DR side if you actually take the trains and intend to travel. If you didn’t actually intend to travel, then claiming DR is fraud.
- underyx 2y agoWhat’s fraudulent about traveling without intending to travel?
- bonobocop 2y agoClaiming delay compensation if you don’t have intent to travel is the fraud part. Easiest example is if you have a season ticket, but you have the day off. You weren’t going to take the train to work that day, so no intent to travel. If you claim DR, then that’s fraud for the compensation.
- underyx 2y agoBut you end up hundreds of miles away from home, who could possibly argue that you moved halfway across the country without intent?
- Nextgrid 2y agoI wonder how this works if you intend to travel should the train be on time, but become aware of the delay (or likelihood of it) and change your plans - what counts as proof of intent? It would be better if the law was changed so that any transport company selling a ticket is forced to refund if they couldn't fulfil their obligation, regardless of whether the ticket was used or intended to be used. Can't provide the service? Then don't sell it!
- sksksk 2y agoI expense all my work travel, and get to keep delay repay payments for myself. My number one trick to getting the payments: get the tightest connection possible. For the journey I take frequently, the train arrives into the main station at 8:52pm, my connection is at 9pm; picking up just 8 minutes of delays means I'll miss the connection. The next train is at 10pm, which triggers delay repay.
- joshstrange 2y agoMaybe I've underestimating the amount of money we are talking about but I'd much rather be where I'm headed on time than travel for free, especially on a regular basis.
- sksksk 2y agoDepending on when you travel, it can be very expensive. If I want to travel at peak time (arriving into London before 10am, and out before 7pm), then we're looking at around £400
- declan_roberts 2y agoGP's comment sounds like hell for a few bucks. I'll avoid making any other observations.
- satyamkapoor 2y agoOmg! Wait till you see the German railways reliability.
- cammikebrown 2y agoI missed seeing Mt. Fuji from my Shinkansen window seat because the train was ahead of schedule and my alarm went off after we had passed it.
- declan_roberts 2y agoNihongo problems.
- bobnamob 2y agoIronic read given I'm currently sat on a half hour delayed, hopelessly overcrowded (due to 2 prior cancellations) Avanti west coast service. I'll be happy to claim my delay repay on my employer's dime for the 5th time this year. My only regret is that I booked off-peak
- bobnamob 2y agoOh it gets so much worse. Train is now parked up just outside Manchester with zero power. Another 10mins is worth £35 at this point
- zfnmxt 2y ago> if the baseline chance of delay is 10%, engineering works add 25%, strikes add 35%, and bad weather adds 20%, then when all these problems happen, there's a 90% chance your train will be delayed. What if signal failures "add" 15%? Then all factors combined would mean that there's a 105% chance your train will be delayed! Adding up probabilities like this doesn't make sense. If you simplify these things as independent events, the probability of delay is just the 1 minus the product of all the probabilities of each event not happening (i.e., 1 - P(event)). As for the article---I think you really undervalue your time and the price of inconvenience. I can see how you can romanticize it as a nice way to get things done, but (dealing with) train delays is hardly distraction free and is full of forced setting changes and (very) shit working environments (like waiting on a platform). This is a bad deal, even if it's free. Money is there to to be spent; this is a instance in which to spend it, moral/ethical/fraud concerns aside. But hey maybe you're a Von Neuman type and thrive in cacophony and chaos.
- Aeolun 2y agoMost of these trains are one and done things straight from the departure station to London? The only experience I have was taking them in the other direction though, because I opted for a flight instead of dealing with it again to go back to London. Was a new experience booking a train ticket and seeing a quote of £250. I thought the machine was broken.
- MathMonkeyMan 2y agoYour comment made me wonder. 65% chance of delay. >>> s = 'if the baseline chance of delay is 10%, engineering works add 25%, strikes add 35%, and bad weather adds 20%' >>> pb = 0.1 >>> pe = 0.25 >>> ps = 0.35 >>> pw = 0.2 >>> p = 1 - (1 - pb)*(1 - pe)*(1 - ps)*(1 - pw) >>> p 0.649
- irjustin 2y agoAgreed, but also where did those %'s come from? Seems like thin air so it's really all a gamble at this point.
- m463 2y ago"Sure, there were some pretty brutal ‘all-dayers’." lol - fast or cheap, pick one.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sidewndr46 2y agoI used a much simpler variant of this to get Amazon Prime for free for years. When I needed something off Amazon, I'd just wait until the day before it was going to rain then order it with next day delivery. The couriers at that point in time seemed comically unable to deliver anything if it rained. Once it arrived late, open a case and ask for a month of free Amazon prime. This worked up until they discontinued that as a potential compensation.
- aredox 2y agoYou know the couriers got punished for it? Whereas you enjoyed free stuff
- ivanjermakov 2y agoOC should not be blamed for such ugly company policies, blame Amazon.
- more_corn 2y agoYou guys get trains?
- nextts 2y agoUntil you get stuck somewhere and you need a hotel or taxi. Unless they reimburse that?
- yapyap 2y agoWow, the train system actually giving you something when it’s late seems great, NS should take notes.
- apexalpha 2y agoI did something similar in the Netherlands. Due to an array of issues the train company has abysmall on-time records on our only high speed line, connecting A'dam to Brussels, Paris and London. I mean we are still talking about 82% on time, not 60% lmao. But compared to the 97,6% of normal trains it's bad. But anyway you can ask for your money back just like in the UK. The trick is that when you travel on a business card your company pays, but you get the reimbursement when delayed. Must've made hundreds over the years. Everytime I heard the brakes I heard the cash register sound and since it's a train I would just happily chug along with my work anyway.
- huskyr 2y agoSeeing the rates here for other countries at least it's a better deal: 50% for delays of 30-60m, and 100% for delays of an hour or longer.
- shmeeed 2y ago>The trick is that when you travel on a business card your company pays, but you get the reimbursement when delayed. TBH that sounds just like fraud to me, and on discovery could (probably, IANAL) justify immediate lawful termination. It's a nice loophole though, if you don't give a f*.
- apexalpha 2y agoMy company has an enterprise arrangement with the train company. All employees have a business card. This is the correct and legitimate use of said system.
- shmeeed 2y agoThat's interesting to know, and I apologise for my premature judgement. The reasoning goes that it's a compensation, not a reimbursement. It seems to depend on company policy though, and whether you're travelling on paid time or not.
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- killingtime74 2y agoI guess this only works for people whose time is worth nothing
- vander_elst 2y agoAny insights why trains are pathologically late? It's easy to blame incompetence, but I think it's too naive, I wonder what are the causes connection are late day after day, year after year. Why is it so difficult to create a reliable model for something we have been working for dozens of decades and we have a good control of?
- Philpax 2y agoOrganisational culture / funding / quality of infrastructure. Compare Swiss trains to German trains: geographically colocated, but the former is known for extreme timeliness, while the latter is known for extreme tardiness. If you want good service, you need to invest and keep investing - it's not a one and done thing, especially as the city and population change around your network.
- isaacremuant 2y agoUntil there's better transparency of the train system in London, I'd say that most of the excuses they give are iterative bullshit and cost saving measures. We need the peasants to go to work but we don't need to offer these low traffic route on Sundays so we won't and we'll call it "Planned engineering works" every time, every year. If someone has detailed transparency on what they are instead of blind authoritarianism like in the train forums/Reddit please be my guest. I wonder if they have re-enacted their refunds page which was down for months "due to cyber security incident". Such a scammy, partially tax funded service that costs an insane amount.
- brainzap 2y agoccc has a talk about predicting on deutsche bahn which trains will be delayed but: being stuck in a train for 3 hours is not worth 50 euros
- ralferoo 2y agoThis reminds me of many years ago when I was backpacking around Australia. For whatever reason, I was wandering around a smallish town around 10am on a Sunday morning and ordered food from either McDonalds or Hungry Jacks (aka Burger King). I was the only customer, and after a few minutes, she called me over and gave me my money back. I asked why, assuming that they'd just discovered they'd run out of ingredients, but no, she said it was because it had taken too long to prepare, so it was free. This is something I'd never experienced in the UK before, and in fact McDonalds in the UK can sometimes take 10 minutes - compared to back home, it hadn't struck me as being particularly slow. It occurred to me that I was probably their first customer of the day and that anyone else who rocked up on a Sunday morning on other weeks as their first customer would probably also get their food for free as e.g. fries would be cooked on demand instead of being ready.