26 ms·

YouTube asks channel owner to verify phone, permanently overwrites personal info

403 points by Tijdreiziger 2y ago

beretguy 2y ago
Everybody should stop using Google products.
- jsheard 2y ago
  AIUI the VTuber scene is very YouTube-centric compared to most other streaming subcultures, so it's easier said than done in this case. If they're doing this professionally (or trying to) then they need to be where the audience is.
  - starkparker 2y ago
    Is it possible that being a VTuber isn't a sustainable profession, then? If only one company exists that can pay people to perform your role, and that company capriciously locked random employees out of all systems over a misunderstanding, and it's seemingly impossible to start up a competitor or find any other way to get paid doing it... maybe find another job?
    - Schiendelman 2y ago
      You are absolutely right. People don't really like hearing it.
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        If your response to someone's worry about job security is "quit preemptively" of course they won't want to hear it. It's not a great reason to quit.
        Schiendelman 2y ago
        It most certainly is. In most cases, it is much easier to find a job while you have a job than it is to find a job when you don't have a job. The action isn't "quit preemptively", the action is finding another job now, instead of making some other investment you would With your time today.
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        > In most cases, it is much easier to find a job while you have a job than it is to find a job when you don't have a job. I think "streamer" is one of those cases where it's least true. > The action isn't "quit preemptively", the action is finding another job now, instead of making some other investment you would With your time today. The action is finding an entirely different career which is a lot more obnoxious than finding another job normally is. Sometimes risk is less bad than the alternatives.
    - pjc50 2y ago
      Why should someone give up pre-emptively on the thing they want to do simply because of a risk of corporate bullshit? You're just saying "get a real job", the classic dismissal of creatives everywhere.
      - Schiendelman 2y ago
        I think you're putting words in their mouth (or should we say on their keyboard?).
  - zmgsabst 2y ago
    Is it? The ones I’m aware of stream primarily on Twitch with YT for clips.
    - jsheard 2y ago
      I think it may actually depend on the region, Japanese VTubers seem to primarily stream on YouTube but international VTubers lean more towards Twitch. Maybe OP could jump ship in that case.
    - lmm 2y ago
      There are two almost distinct VTuber cultures. One is Twitch-based, livestream-oriented, and sees vtubing as an extension of individual livestreaming. Another is YouTube-based, balances livestreaming with VODs and recorded videos (particularly music videos), and sees vtubing as an idol-unit-style group activity.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - beretguy 2y ago
    Yes, unfortunately YouTube is the last Google products I can't abandon because of the few YouTuber I like. But I try to use YouTube fronts.
- ulfw 2y ago
  Agreed but sadly for something like Youtube it's basically impossible at this stage. I've long replaced Mail, Maps, Calendar, Photos, Drive, etc with better alternatives from Apple and Microsoft.
  - zeroday28 2y ago
    > with better alternatives from Apple and Microsoft. There is no difference in terms of privacy. If that's why you replaced them.
    - Schiendelman 2y ago
      You're seriously suggesting Apple and Google have no difference in privacy?
      - yellowapple 2y ago
        That is indeed a serious suggestion, and an absolutely correct one. Transparency is a dependency of trust. Neither Google, Apple, nor Microsoft are transparent about the software they offer, the data that software collects, or how they use the data collected. They are in fact quite opaque about all of those things. The only assurance of privacy they offer is their word.
        sureIy 2y ago
        Microsoft I agree, same as Google if not worse. Apple does have the occasional third-party review of cryptography and whatnot. Apple also have an actual, single phone support number in multiple languages and countries that you can use as a paying customer. Day and night with Google.
        xethos 2y ago
        And while that's not an unreasonable rebuttal, my first argument (in agreement with yours) is that Google does not sell their users' information, and neither does Apple. Being up in arms about the lack of privacy from Google is fair, and something I agree with. But Apple doesn't offer dramatically more privacy from Apple that I'm aware of. Both allow, but discourage, free accounts, and run ad networks (that they don't sell user information on) I'm not even arguing there's no difference, just that there's less than everyone likes to pretend
- xyst 2y ago
  I miss the days of discovering random sites that had their own content. I remember discovering the warez scene and using IRC to snatch up the latest discography or film. I think I discovered new films and music just by browsing what was served up. It’s a shame torrenting never became mainstream for legitimate content. Commenting and community engagement can be distributed or federated like Lemmy or mastodon and “primary content” to be distributed/streamed via P2P. Successful content creators can ultimately pay for VPS to help distribute/seed. And upstarts can share their content on their residential connection.
  - tjpnz 2y ago
    >I remember discovering the warez scene and using IRC to snatch up the latest discography or film. I think I discovered new films and music just by browsing what was served up. In terms of discoverability their websites were better than the streamers of today - and we're going back 20+ years here. There's a strong argument to be made that price is only a small part in why people opt for piracy. The UI/UX is better, the support is better, even the situation around privacy is better provided you're going somewhere legit.
- inquirerGeneral 2y ago
  [dead]
flyinghamster 2y ago
Looks like Reddit is diving further down the enshittification rat hole. Link is behind a login wall, at least for me.
- morder 2y ago
  it's the /s/ link that does it. https://old.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1iqmul1/if_you_have_a_moment_i_need_your_help/ https://old.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1iqmul1/i...
  - flyinghamster 2y ago
    Aha. I noticed that the /s/ link hits the login wall even if I use old.reddit.com.
    - morder 2y ago
      here's my redirector `https?://www\.reddit\.com(?!/(?:(?:media|gallery|settings)\b|r/\w+/s/))([/#?].*)?` regex that fixes `/s/` links as well as many others
- ycombinatrix 2y ago
  redlib proxy link: https://redlib.northboot.xyz/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1iqmul1/if_you_have_a_moment_i_need_your_help/ https://redlib.northboot.xyz/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1iq...
- hackingonempty 2y ago
  use an extension or user script to change the domain to "old.reddit.com"
  - tczMUFlmoNk 2y ago
    Even old.reddit.com blocks all logged-out users over my VPN (Mullvad), and I'm not going to disable that, so I just can't view Reddit anymore.
1over137 2y ago
> I don’t know what to do. All I can ask is that you help me try to reach YouTube if possible. Here’s what to do: stop being a digital serf to google.
- kevingadd 2y ago
  Sadly in their business your revenue stream is either locked to YouTube or to Twitch. There aren't viable alternative services ATM and even if you set up i.e. patreon or some sort of stream tipping service, most viewers won't use it.
crest 2y ago
If you're in the EU (or UK) you have the right to have your personal (mis)information corrected. Threaten legal action under GDPR and follow through.
- sussmannbaka 2y ago
  Won’t they just delete your account since you agreed to them to take away your stuff for any reason (including none at all)?
  - hnbad 2y ago
    I'm not sure if there have been any rulings on this so I don't know what lawyers say about this but based on a layperson's reading of the GDPR, I would expect that the company can not simply unilaterally delete the user's data in response to a request to have their data corrected as the user retains ownership of their data (the terms of service may grant a license for specific purposes but any clauses that would waive your basic rights would be unenforceable and void). I know that companies (especially in the US) tend to stuff everything they can think of in the ToS or EULA but generally European courts seem to hold the opinion that they're not allowed to contain "surprising" clauses and it's generally not possible to waive your rights (e.g. you can't waive your copyright but you can grant a license functionally equivalent to putting a work in the public domain in the US). I suspect UK courts may still rule similarly with regard to data ownership.
- robin_reala 2y ago
  This is the only correct answer, and luckily the person who started the Reddit thread has picked up on it too. The only problem is that it’s not going to be quick, but there aren’t any other solutions.
atomicfiredoll 2y ago
> A few days ago, I was prompted to verify my phone number by Google. Immediately after completing the verification, I received an email notifying me that Google had overwritten all my personal information. It turns out that because my mom is the one paying the phone bill, they automatically "verified" the name on my account to be hers and updated everything on my account without my consent. It sounds like someone at Google (not necessarily a programmer) needs to read "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Phone Numbers:" > 4. A phone number uniquely identifies an individual What a bureaucratic nightmare.
- GoblinSlayer 2y ago
  2020: hey, it's second factor for your safety 2040: 4 hour ago your body separated from your phone, drink a verification can
  - gnuly 2y ago
    [dead]
  - hofrogs 2y ago
    [dead]
- metadat 2y ago
  Imagine being the implementing engineer at ElGoog: Your manager / PM: "Make this change, it's how Google is doing things now." Yet it's so obviously wrong, but if you push back.. not good for you.
  - atomicfiredoll 2y ago
    Lots of us have had to implement changes we've disagreed with or pushed back on, but this one looks so obviously wrong, it's particularly mind boggling. I'm almost inclined to think maybe the process/tech isn't designed to do this and there's a bug, or somebody tasked with a manual verification made an outright mistake, or something else went off the rails. Any number of this could have gone wrong. Then I think of the number of sites and services that have started asking for phone numbers, as if they believe doing it over and over will somehow change the nature of telephony--it would probably be a mistake for me to give Google or any of these other companies the benefit of the doubt.
xyst 2y ago
> Immediately after completing the verification, I received an email notifying me that Google had overwritten all my personal information. It turns out that because my mom is the one paying the phone bill, they automatically "verified" the name on my account to be hers How is Google or YT able to determine the subscriber behind a phone number? Caller ID lookup?
- hansvm 2y ago
  That's a service most (all?) post-paid phone numbers provide in the US. It's one of the reasons FB won't (or didn't used to) let you create an account on a lot of the lower-cost cell providers.
  - Springtime 2y ago
    Twilio's verification API for instance has this[1] but only for US targets. Though the person in the OP is from the UK. I wonder how many other countries' carriers have non-business caller name lookups. The other aspect would be if Google were able to cross-reference address book contacts that were obtained from permissions from their apps/services to check what name is most commonly associated with that number. [1] https://www.twilio.com/docs/lookup/v2-api/caller-name https://www.twilio.com/docs/lookup/v2-api/caller-name
    - sureIy 2y ago
      I know my EU country also had it, but you could opt out due to privacy. I loved looking up number owners as a teen. I don't know why. It was right there on the monopoly telco's website.
  - o11c 2y ago
    Is this just caller id? The system supports it but many end users choose not to pay to access it, or don't know how to configure it. Remember it generally is totally unverified. I ended up being on a bunch of conference calls during COVID, and from what I recall, there was a roughly (it varied significantly between calls) even split between: * caller ID shows the correct name (but maybe misspelled, though misspellings were more common when the host tried to add/correct information from one of the other types) * caller ID shows the name of a spouse/parent/sibling (one notable example: husband and wife both joined the call separately, both with the husband's name, but one including the middle initial) * caller ID shows the name of somebody vaguely involved with the actual person for some reason * caller ID just shows something generic, like a brand or "wireless caller" * caller ID fails so just a number Maybe 1% of users used the app and so didn't have an associated phone number, just a username/email. At some point I was surprised to discover that video calls were in fact supported.
hansvm 2y ago
This isn't practical for everyone, but I've had good luck showing up to the Googleplex in person when their errors were too egregious.
- koolba 2y ago
  I can see this approach being very entertaining at scale.
- jeromegv 2y ago
  How? Is the receptionist able to help you?
  - pan69 2y ago
    By finding the person who can help you?
  - hansvm 2y ago
    They give you a direct line or email to whoever can help you. Everyone I met was really nice. It's like a proper customer support channel.
  - yellowapple 2y ago
    By being an actual sapient being instead of a poorly-designed customer "support" algorithm.
  - pests 2y ago
    Google is not some black box. It’s made up of people. Are we so used to lack of service online that in-person service is now unheard of?
    - sureIy 2y ago
      Yes but they can also very well say "sorry, we're not tech support, bye" and stand there looking at you. This is exceptionally easy to do if there are 5 people a day coming in for that reason.
est 2y ago
Anyone remembers Google Video? Full of crap like this. Lost competition to Youtube.
- pests 2y ago
  You mean Google bought YT and then Google Video existed in a quasi defuct state via the videos search tab until it was all replaced
  - est 2y ago
    yeah and the time before GOOG bought yt. I tried to upload some vids, gv asks for submiting paperwork to prove my real identity. Shit product designed by lawyers.
ryandrake 2y ago
We should stop normalizing giving phone numbers out to companies. If I don't want you to call me, why would I give you my phone number. And on the other side of that coin, why do you want my phone number if you're not planning to call me? It's not an identifier. Just don't do it. Same with social security numbers. You don't get it unless I expect you to send me a tax-related form at tax time.
- portaouflop 2y ago
  Easy to say but some insist on identifying you via a phone number. In most other cases i just type some random numbers or use a number generator. SSN is a weird concept that thankfully doesn’t exist in my country. But yea unless this is a very important service you get 0 of my real data.
  - hartator 2y ago
    > SSN is a weird concept that thankfully doesn’t exist in my country. I am pretty sure you have something similar in your country.
    - joseda-hg 2y ago
      Usually a bit less dangerous to give away though, most of my friends and coworkers have my personal id, because it also doubles as a bank account number Not that it matters on the context of giving away information
      - hartator 2y ago
        It’s not something you would want to post online, but it’s also not that big of deal if it got leaked. Most of them are. I would say a SSN getting leaked is as bad as a passport number getting leaked.
        joseda-hg 2y ago
        Most people wouldn't but I do ocasionally see some posted online, it should never change, there's a second number that's usually used to validate further, and that one gets changed every time you renew you ID Document
pzmarzly 2y ago
It's 2025, and the split-brain world of Google vs YouTube vs AdSense accounts has still not been solved, and is only getting worse. It seems you need to be an expert in how Google backend is structured to get anything done on YouTube. To my understanding: Google account: everyone knows what it is, your personal account. Unless you have GSuite, then nobody knows what it's meant to be and let you do. YouTube account (channel): there is now a many-to-many relation between Google accounts and YouTube accounts, but they otherwise function pretty much like pre-Google+ YouTube accounts. You can even change the primary Google account of a YouTube account, that requires clicking a button and waiting for a week. Then there is this brand vs non-brand distinction, where you can convert from non-brand to brand, but not the other way around, and some stuff used to work only with one of these types. And I think nowadays there is some way to make a Google account without a (named) YouTube channel, if you're just a viewer that doesn't even comment or create playlists, but there is not much reason to do that. AdSense account: A billing account, once again with many-to-many mapping to Google accounts, and also many-to-many [0] mapping to AdSense projects ("sites"). Requires unique billing details, and apparently unique address as well [1], but otherwise shouldn't do much. So in the linked situation, I think editing Google account login info changed the AdSense account details, which is definitely unexpected. YouTube account was probably not the problem here, I suspect the author would have had same issue if they were selling ads on a website instead of YouTube channel, though of course you have to use different AdSense UI if you sell ads on Youtube vs on the web, which probably further complicates things. Anyway, since it hit the frontpage of ~~Google's only working support channel~~ HackerNews, it will soon be solved (for that single creator only, probably). The only good solutions to this mess seem to be to either make YouTube account a standalone thing (cutting AdSense from the picture, and using Google accounts only for authentication), or to decouple all the accounts and make links between them more configurable / clear. Anything in-between, and we get (waves hands) this. But both of these solutions would also make it too clear where to cut if/when the Google antitrust process comes, which doesn't make me think it will happen anytime soon. [0] https://support.google.com/adsense/thread/11680365/how-we-can-use-multiple-adsense-accounts-on-a-single-website-is-it-legal-or-illegal-check-this https://support.google.com/adsense/thread/11680365/how-we-ca... [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/PartneredYoutube/comments/17vb8w8/can_a_couple_share_an_adsense_account/k9lhymz/ https://old.reddit.com/r/PartneredYoutube/comments/17vb8w8/c...
jrockway 2y ago
This really sucks. Why is it so important to know someone's legal name, anyway? If their content is problematic, delete it. If it's not, let them use a pseudonym. What is the appetite for self-hosting streams? I've worked at a variety of ISP gigs and really don't think the bandwidth cost is that crazy of a blocker. But would any streamers ever WANT to self-host something? I feel like people would love to throw off the shackles of YouTube and Twitch, but are probably less enthused about not having their channel advertised to the platform's users. Things like maintaining your own Stripe account also sucks. (My angle is charging for software to do this, not making another hosted service. Just don't think there is actually a market. Complaining on Reddit when the bureaucracy of Twitch/YouTube stymies you seems to be 100% effective. But will it always be?)
- plagiarist 2y ago
  For paying out money it is likely a legal requirement, it sounds like it is advertising revenue this person is cut off from. Google's methods are idiotic here, especially since they seem perfectly willing to share other proof of identity.
- WillPostForFood 2y ago
  This really sucks. Why is it so important to know someone's legal name, anyway? They have to know his legal name, because they are paying him. His core issue is around monetization, caused by the personal info screw up. The "Know Your Customer" laws are a nightmare and are the root of a lot of this kind of horrible bureaucracy.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Do know your customer laws apply to Alphabet? I thought that was for banks. I assume Alphabet needs the info for tax purposes though due to needing to report payments and issue 1099s.
    - lmz 2y ago
      Well you wouldn't want Youtube to pay e.g. terrorists (or other sanctioned entities) for their videos, so wouldn't it make sense for them to try and get a name then run a sanctions check on the name?
phendrenad2 2y ago
Today I learned: if someone has your phone number, they can make a simple API call to get your full name.
- rixed 2y ago
  Or that of your mum.
  - skylurk 2y ago
    Possibly her maiden name.
- wodenokoto 2y ago
  When I was young that API was delivered to your door on paper.
  - floydnoel 2y ago
    you had a book that listed every phone number in numerical order? because a phone book is the exact opposite of that
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      Yes. It was called a city directory and salespeople would frequently own them. My dad’s also had listings of every street, showing the people living at each address.
TheCapeGreek 2y ago
I had something a little similar happen when I listed my Airbnb apartment on Google Maps. In their infinite wisdom, Maps decided it'd be best to merge my listing with the listing for the building it's in - but also gave me admin rights over the entire building's listing. Support refused to fathom that I don't want to have any degree of Maps authority over something that does not belong to me (though I could have definitely used this to my advantage for increasing bookings), and their instructions to unsplit/remove myself never worked.
- ochre-ogre 2y ago
  I had a similar experience but I wanted it that way. The listing for my residential society (comprising of 30+ buildings) was being hijacked by Real Estate brokers and internet service providers. I went on a discord server where Google employees were known to hang out and informally help people - they gave me ownership of the listing. This has allowed me to reject updates various businesses in the area try to push every few months. Google maps hijacking has become a huge issue in my country where scammers update the contact details of local businesses without their knowledge and then scam unsuspecting people calling to place orders or book a stay. The vast majority of business owners don't even know they can / should take ownership of their maps listing.
  - Balgair 2y ago
    > I went on a discord server where Google employees were known to hang out and informally help people Ummm, got any more details on where I can find that server?
    - ochre-ogre 2y ago
      I found it via the Google sub-reddit. There appears to have been some kind of internal clampdown, I just checked and the Google Discord server has been renamed to The Tech Collective (https://discord.gg/techcollective https://discord.gg/techcollective). No idea if employees at Google are still a part of it.
nikanj 2y ago
Fortunately they were able to reach the only reliable Google support desk: The HN front page. Getting this resolved via Google's official channels is about very unlikely, but now their issue has reached the eyes of people who actually can help
RataNova 2y ago
I just cannot believe sometimes how broken YouTube's support system is. And the irony of YouTube treating their automated mistake as irreversible while expecting creators to just deal with it is maddening
LeoPanthera 2y ago
This is long since solved, but due to a Gmail error, I managed to be the recipient for every email sent to google@gmail.com. I only managed to get it fixed because I happened to know someone who worked at Google. I would never trust Google with anything even vaguely important. If something goes wrong, it will be wrong forever.
rkuodys 2y ago
As a person, not from UK can someone explain how could Google / YT obtain information about name/surname based solely on phone number. Isn't that GDPR infringement right there ? If my son were to use my phone anywhere, there is no consent on my part to share my personal information with the service provider.
tokamak 2y ago
How else to block sanctioned country individuals? This is a problem on YouTube where American company is basically supporting regimes indirectly.
nullc 2y ago
Another reason to never give companies your phone number is because as soon as you do simswappers will be able to take over your account-- seems once a company knows a phone number they will simply be unable to resist "recovering" your account for someone who can receive SMSes at it.
buyucu 2y ago
Google does this all the time. It's a very bad idea to put everything you have to Google.
PeterStuer 2y ago
Over here in Belgium telcos will reuse mobile telephone numbers if the client leaves without transfering the number to a new service. This results in people getting a new mobile subscription with a number that can not be used to create a new Google account (this number has been used too many times), or e.g. get the Whatsapp account from the previous owner (as you recover the account by a text to the number)
- bsimpson 2y ago
  This is a standard feature in the US too. Since the advent of cell phones and free long distance, people tend to keep a single number for longer, but there used to be a trope about getting wrong number calls for someone who had died and had his number recycled.
radicality 2y ago
I vaguely remember once browsing the depths of Verizon settings pages and found something under privacy section, and immediately switched it to ‘Do not agree’. I don’t think I had any issues because of it, but it’s really infuriating that the default is of course “Agree to give my data to everyone for all purposes”. Setting name was: > With your authorization, Verizon provides certain account, device, and profile data related to your Verizon account to third parties for the purpose of helping companies you do business with verify your identity and help protect you against identity theft and account takeover. If you use Verizon, setting is here: https://www.verizon.com/digital/nsa/secure/ui/acct/profile/privacypreferences/identityverificationsettings https://www.verizon.com/digital/nsa/secure/ui/acct/profile/p...
globular-toast 2y ago
Whenever I see these threads pop up I feel sorry for all the people whose posts don't go to the front page of Reddit etc.
foxglacier 2y ago
I'm surprised they got the phone account owner's details. Maybe what really happened is that his mum previously used the same number for something on Google before giving the phone to him, so YouTube thinks he's her. Still inexcusable since people can and do give their phone to somebody else like this.
patshoemaker 2y ago
[flagged]
patshoemaker 2y ago
need to verify my cell number from hackers 404- 593-5289

403 points by Tijdreiziger 2y ago

beretguy 2y ago

Everybody should stop using Google products.

jsheard 2y ago
AIUI the VTuber scene is very YouTube-centric compared to most other streaming subcultures, so it's easier said than done in this case. If they're doing this professionally (or trying to) then they need to be where the audience is.
- starkparker 2y ago
  Is it possible that being a VTuber isn't a sustainable profession, then? If only one company exists that can pay people to perform your role, and that company capriciously locked random employees out of all systems over a misunderstanding, and it's seemingly impossible to start up a competitor or find any other way to get paid doing it... maybe find another job?
  - Schiendelman 2y ago
    You are absolutely right. People don't really like hearing it.
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      If your response to someone's worry about job security is "quit preemptively" of course they won't want to hear it. It's not a great reason to quit.
      - Schiendelman 2y ago
        It most certainly is. In most cases, it is much easier to find a job while you have a job than it is to find a job when you don't have a job. The action isn't "quit preemptively", the action is finding another job now, instead of making some other investment you would With your time today.
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        > In most cases, it is much easier to find a job while you have a job than it is to find a job when you don't have a job. I think "streamer" is one of those cases where it's least true. > The action isn't "quit preemptively", the action is finding another job now, instead of making some other investment you would With your time today. The action is finding an entirely different career which is a lot more obnoxious than finding another job normally is. Sometimes risk is less bad than the alternatives.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    Why should someone give up pre-emptively on the thing they want to do simply because of a risk of corporate bullshit? You're just saying "get a real job", the classic dismissal of creatives everywhere.
    - Schiendelman 2y ago
      I think you're putting words in their mouth (or should we say on their keyboard?).
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  Is it? The ones I’m aware of stream primarily on Twitch with YT for clips.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    I think it may actually depend on the region, Japanese VTubers seem to primarily stream on YouTube but international VTubers lean more towards Twitch. Maybe OP could jump ship in that case.
  - lmm 2y ago
    There are two almost distinct VTuber cultures. One is Twitch-based, livestream-oriented, and sees vtubing as an extension of individual livestreaming. Another is YouTube-based, balances livestreaming with VODs and recorded videos (particularly music videos), and sees vtubing as an idol-unit-style group activity.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- beretguy 2y ago
  Yes, unfortunately YouTube is the last Google products I can't abandon because of the few YouTuber I like. But I try to use YouTube fronts.
ulfw 2y ago
Agreed but sadly for something like Youtube it's basically impossible at this stage. I've long replaced Mail, Maps, Calendar, Photos, Drive, etc with better alternatives from Apple and Microsoft.
- zeroday28 2y ago
  > with better alternatives from Apple and Microsoft. There is no difference in terms of privacy. If that's why you replaced them.
  - Schiendelman 2y ago
    You're seriously suggesting Apple and Google have no difference in privacy?
    - yellowapple 2y ago
      That is indeed a serious suggestion, and an absolutely correct one. Transparency is a dependency of trust. Neither Google, Apple, nor Microsoft are transparent about the software they offer, the data that software collects, or how they use the data collected. They are in fact quite opaque about all of those things. The only assurance of privacy they offer is their word.
      - sureIy 2y ago
        Microsoft I agree, same as Google if not worse. Apple does have the occasional third-party review of cryptography and whatnot. Apple also have an actual, single phone support number in multiple languages and countries that you can use as a paying customer. Day and night with Google.
      - xethos 2y ago
        And while that's not an unreasonable rebuttal, my first argument (in agreement with yours) is that Google does not sell their users' information, and neither does Apple. Being up in arms about the lack of privacy from Google is fair, and something I agree with. But Apple doesn't offer dramatically more privacy from Apple that I'm aware of. Both allow, but discourage, free accounts, and run ad networks (that they don't sell user information on) I'm not even arguing there's no difference, just that there's less than everyone likes to pretend
xyst 2y ago
I miss the days of discovering random sites that had their own content. I remember discovering the warez scene and using IRC to snatch up the latest discography or film. I think I discovered new films and music just by browsing what was served up. It’s a shame torrenting never became mainstream for legitimate content. Commenting and community engagement can be distributed or federated like Lemmy or mastodon and “primary content” to be distributed/streamed via P2P. Successful content creators can ultimately pay for VPS to help distribute/seed. And upstarts can share their content on their residential connection.
- tjpnz 2y ago
  >I remember discovering the warez scene and using IRC to snatch up the latest discography or film. I think I discovered new films and music just by browsing what was served up. In terms of discoverability their websites were better than the streamers of today - and we're going back 20+ years here. There's a strong argument to be made that price is only a small part in why people opt for piracy. The UI/UX is better, the support is better, even the situation around privacy is better provided you're going somewhere legit.
inquirerGeneral 2y ago
[dead]

flyinghamster 2y ago

Looks like Reddit is diving further down the enshittification rat hole. Link is behind a login wall, at least for me.

morder 2y ago
it's the /s/ link that does it. https://old.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1iqmul1/if_you_have_a_moment_i_need_your_help/ https://old.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1iqmul1/i...
- flyinghamster 2y ago
  Aha. I noticed that the /s/ link hits the login wall even if I use old.reddit.com.
  - morder 2y ago
    here's my redirector `https?://www\.reddit\.com(?!/(?:(?:media|gallery|settings)\b|r/\w+/s/))([/#?].*)?` regex that fixes `/s/` links as well as many others
ycombinatrix 2y ago
redlib proxy link: https://redlib.northboot.xyz/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1iqmul1/if_you_have_a_moment_i_need_your_help/ https://redlib.northboot.xyz/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1iq...
hackingonempty 2y ago
use an extension or user script to change the domain to "old.reddit.com"
- tczMUFlmoNk 2y ago
  Even old.reddit.com blocks all logged-out users over my VPN (Mullvad), and I'm not going to disable that, so I just can't view Reddit anymore.

1over137 2y ago

> I don’t know what to do. All I can ask is that you help me try to reach YouTube if possible. Here’s what to do: stop being a digital serf to google.

kevingadd 2y ago
Sadly in their business your revenue stream is either locked to YouTube or to Twitch. There aren't viable alternative services ATM and even if you set up i.e. patreon or some sort of stream tipping service, most viewers won't use it.

crest 2y ago

If you're in the EU (or UK) you have the right to have your personal (mis)information corrected. Threaten legal action under GDPR and follow through.

sussmannbaka 2y ago
Won’t they just delete your account since you agreed to them to take away your stuff for any reason (including none at all)?
- hnbad 2y ago
  I'm not sure if there have been any rulings on this so I don't know what lawyers say about this but based on a layperson's reading of the GDPR, I would expect that the company can not simply unilaterally delete the user's data in response to a request to have their data corrected as the user retains ownership of their data (the terms of service may grant a license for specific purposes but any clauses that would waive your basic rights would be unenforceable and void). I know that companies (especially in the US) tend to stuff everything they can think of in the ToS or EULA but generally European courts seem to hold the opinion that they're not allowed to contain "surprising" clauses and it's generally not possible to waive your rights (e.g. you can't waive your copyright but you can grant a license functionally equivalent to putting a work in the public domain in the US). I suspect UK courts may still rule similarly with regard to data ownership.
robin_reala 2y ago
This is the only correct answer, and luckily the person who started the Reddit thread has picked up on it too. The only problem is that it’s not going to be quick, but there aren’t any other solutions.

atomicfiredoll 2y ago

> A few days ago, I was prompted to verify my phone number by Google. Immediately after completing the verification, I received an email notifying me that Google had overwritten all my personal information. It turns out that because my mom is the one paying the phone bill, they automatically "verified" the name on my account to be hers and updated everything on my account without my consent. It sounds like someone at Google (not necessarily a programmer) needs to read "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Phone Numbers:" > 4. A phone number uniquely identifies an individual What a bureaucratic nightmare.

GoblinSlayer 2y ago
2020: hey, it's second factor for your safety 2040: 4 hour ago your body separated from your phone, drink a verification can
- gnuly 2y ago
  [dead]
- hofrogs 2y ago
  [dead]
metadat 2y ago
Imagine being the implementing engineer at ElGoog: Your manager / PM: "Make this change, it's how Google is doing things now." Yet it's so obviously wrong, but if you push back.. not good for you.
- atomicfiredoll 2y ago
  Lots of us have had to implement changes we've disagreed with or pushed back on, but this one looks so obviously wrong, it's particularly mind boggling. I'm almost inclined to think maybe the process/tech isn't designed to do this and there's a bug, or somebody tasked with a manual verification made an outright mistake, or something else went off the rails. Any number of this could have gone wrong. Then I think of the number of sites and services that have started asking for phone numbers, as if they believe doing it over and over will somehow change the nature of telephony--it would probably be a mistake for me to give Google or any of these other companies the benefit of the doubt.

xyst 2y ago

> Immediately after completing the verification, I received an email notifying me that Google had overwritten all my personal information. It turns out that because my mom is the one paying the phone bill, they automatically "verified" the name on my account to be hers How is Google or YT able to determine the subscriber behind a phone number? Caller ID lookup?

hansvm 2y ago
That's a service most (all?) post-paid phone numbers provide in the US. It's one of the reasons FB won't (or didn't used to) let you create an account on a lot of the lower-cost cell providers.
- Springtime 2y ago
  Twilio's verification API for instance has this[1] but only for US targets. Though the person in the OP is from the UK. I wonder how many other countries' carriers have non-business caller name lookups. The other aspect would be if Google were able to cross-reference address book contacts that were obtained from permissions from their apps/services to check what name is most commonly associated with that number. [1] https://www.twilio.com/docs/lookup/v2-api/caller-name https://www.twilio.com/docs/lookup/v2-api/caller-name
  - sureIy 2y ago
    I know my EU country also had it, but you could opt out due to privacy. I loved looking up number owners as a teen. I don't know why. It was right there on the monopoly telco's website.
- o11c 2y ago
  Is this just caller id? The system supports it but many end users choose not to pay to access it, or don't know how to configure it. Remember it generally is totally unverified. I ended up being on a bunch of conference calls during COVID, and from what I recall, there was a roughly (it varied significantly between calls) even split between: * caller ID shows the correct name (but maybe misspelled, though misspellings were more common when the host tried to add/correct information from one of the other types) * caller ID shows the name of a spouse/parent/sibling (one notable example: husband and wife both joined the call separately, both with the husband's name, but one including the middle initial) * caller ID shows the name of somebody vaguely involved with the actual person for some reason * caller ID just shows something generic, like a brand or "wireless caller" * caller ID fails so just a number Maybe 1% of users used the app and so didn't have an associated phone number, just a username/email. At some point I was surprised to discover that video calls were in fact supported.

hansvm 2y ago

This isn't practical for everyone, but I've had good luck showing up to the Googleplex in person when their errors were too egregious.

koolba 2y ago
I can see this approach being very entertaining at scale.
jeromegv 2y ago
How? Is the receptionist able to help you?
- pan69 2y ago
  By finding the person who can help you?
- hansvm 2y ago
  They give you a direct line or email to whoever can help you. Everyone I met was really nice. It's like a proper customer support channel.
- yellowapple 2y ago
  By being an actual sapient being instead of a poorly-designed customer "support" algorithm.
- pests 2y ago
  Google is not some black box. It’s made up of people. Are we so used to lack of service online that in-person service is now unheard of?
  - sureIy 2y ago
    Yes but they can also very well say "sorry, we're not tech support, bye" and stand there looking at you. This is exceptionally easy to do if there are 5 people a day coming in for that reason.

est 2y ago

Anyone remembers Google Video? Full of crap like this. Lost competition to Youtube.

pests 2y ago
You mean Google bought YT and then Google Video existed in a quasi defuct state via the videos search tab until it was all replaced
- est 2y ago
  yeah and the time before GOOG bought yt. I tried to upload some vids, gv asks for submiting paperwork to prove my real identity. Shit product designed by lawyers.

ryandrake 2y ago

We should stop normalizing giving phone numbers out to companies. If I don't want you to call me, why would I give you my phone number. And on the other side of that coin, why do you want my phone number if you're not planning to call me? It's not an identifier. Just don't do it. Same with social security numbers. You don't get it unless I expect you to send me a tax-related form at tax time.

portaouflop 2y ago
Easy to say but some insist on identifying you via a phone number. In most other cases i just type some random numbers or use a number generator. SSN is a weird concept that thankfully doesn’t exist in my country. But yea unless this is a very important service you get 0 of my real data.
- hartator 2y ago
  > SSN is a weird concept that thankfully doesn’t exist in my country. I am pretty sure you have something similar in your country.
  - joseda-hg 2y ago
    Usually a bit less dangerous to give away though, most of my friends and coworkers have my personal id, because it also doubles as a bank account number Not that it matters on the context of giving away information
    - hartator 2y ago
      It’s not something you would want to post online, but it’s also not that big of deal if it got leaked. Most of them are. I would say a SSN getting leaked is as bad as a passport number getting leaked.
      - joseda-hg 2y ago
        Most people wouldn't but I do ocasionally see some posted online, it should never change, there's a second number that's usually used to validate further, and that one gets changed every time you renew you ID Document

pzmarzly 2y ago

It's 2025, and the split-brain world of Google vs YouTube vs AdSense accounts has still not been solved, and is only getting worse. It seems you need to be an expert in how Google backend is structured to get anything done on YouTube. To my understanding: Google account: everyone knows what it is, your personal account. Unless you have GSuite, then nobody knows what it's meant to be and let you do. YouTube account (channel): there is now a many-to-many relation between Google accounts and YouTube accounts, but they otherwise function pretty much like pre-Google+ YouTube accounts. You can even change the primary Google account of a YouTube account, that requires clicking a button and waiting for a week. Then there is this brand vs non-brand distinction, where you can convert from non-brand to brand, but not the other way around, and some stuff used to work only with one of these types. And I think nowadays there is some way to make a Google account without a (named) YouTube channel, if you're just a viewer that doesn't even comment or create playlists, but there is not much reason to do that. AdSense account: A billing account, once again with many-to-many mapping to Google accounts, and also many-to-many [0] mapping to AdSense projects ("sites"). Requires unique billing details, and apparently unique address as well [1], but otherwise shouldn't do much. So in the linked situation, I think editing Google account login info changed the AdSense account details, which is definitely unexpected. YouTube account was probably not the problem here, I suspect the author would have had same issue if they were selling ads on a website instead of YouTube channel, though of course you have to use different AdSense UI if you sell ads on Youtube vs on the web, which probably further complicates things. Anyway, since it hit the frontpage of ~~Google's only working support channel~~ HackerNews, it will soon be solved (for that single creator only, probably). The only good solutions to this mess seem to be to either make YouTube account a standalone thing (cutting AdSense from the picture, and using Google accounts only for authentication), or to decouple all the accounts and make links between them more configurable / clear. Anything in-between, and we get (waves hands) this. But both of these solutions would also make it too clear where to cut if/when the Google antitrust process comes, which doesn't make me think it will happen anytime soon. [0] https://support.google.com/adsense/thread/11680365/how-we-can-use-multiple-adsense-accounts-on-a-single-website-is-it-legal-or-illegal-check-this https://support.google.com/adsense/thread/11680365/how-we-ca... [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/PartneredYoutube/comments/17vb8w8/can_a_couple_share_an_adsense_account/k9lhymz/ https://old.reddit.com/r/PartneredYoutube/comments/17vb8w8/c...

jrockway 2y ago

This really sucks. Why is it so important to know someone's legal name, anyway? If their content is problematic, delete it. If it's not, let them use a pseudonym. What is the appetite for self-hosting streams? I've worked at a variety of ISP gigs and really don't think the bandwidth cost is that crazy of a blocker. But would any streamers ever WANT to self-host something? I feel like people would love to throw off the shackles of YouTube and Twitch, but are probably less enthused about not having their channel advertised to the platform's users. Things like maintaining your own Stripe account also sucks. (My angle is charging for software to do this, not making another hosted service. Just don't think there is actually a market. Complaining on Reddit when the bureaucracy of Twitch/YouTube stymies you seems to be 100% effective. But will it always be?)

plagiarist 2y ago
For paying out money it is likely a legal requirement, it sounds like it is advertising revenue this person is cut off from. Google's methods are idiotic here, especially since they seem perfectly willing to share other proof of identity.
WillPostForFood 2y ago
This really sucks. Why is it so important to know someone's legal name, anyway? They have to know his legal name, because they are paying him. His core issue is around monetization, caused by the personal info screw up. The "Know Your Customer" laws are a nightmare and are the root of a lot of this kind of horrible bureaucracy.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Do know your customer laws apply to Alphabet? I thought that was for banks. I assume Alphabet needs the info for tax purposes though due to needing to report payments and issue 1099s.
  - lmz 2y ago
    Well you wouldn't want Youtube to pay e.g. terrorists (or other sanctioned entities) for their videos, so wouldn't it make sense for them to try and get a name then run a sanctions check on the name?

phendrenad2 2y ago

Today I learned: if someone has your phone number, they can make a simple API call to get your full name.

rixed 2y ago
Or that of your mum.
- skylurk 2y ago
  Possibly her maiden name.
wodenokoto 2y ago
When I was young that API was delivered to your door on paper.
- floydnoel 2y ago
  you had a book that listed every phone number in numerical order? because a phone book is the exact opposite of that
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    Yes. It was called a city directory and salespeople would frequently own them. My dad’s also had listings of every street, showing the people living at each address.

TheCapeGreek 2y ago

I had something a little similar happen when I listed my Airbnb apartment on Google Maps. In their infinite wisdom, Maps decided it'd be best to merge my listing with the listing for the building it's in - but also gave me admin rights over the entire building's listing. Support refused to fathom that I don't want to have any degree of Maps authority over something that does not belong to me (though I could have definitely used this to my advantage for increasing bookings), and their instructions to unsplit/remove myself never worked.

ochre-ogre 2y ago
I had a similar experience but I wanted it that way. The listing for my residential society (comprising of 30+ buildings) was being hijacked by Real Estate brokers and internet service providers. I went on a discord server where Google employees were known to hang out and informally help people - they gave me ownership of the listing. This has allowed me to reject updates various businesses in the area try to push every few months. Google maps hijacking has become a huge issue in my country where scammers update the contact details of local businesses without their knowledge and then scam unsuspecting people calling to place orders or book a stay. The vast majority of business owners don't even know they can / should take ownership of their maps listing.
- Balgair 2y ago
  > I went on a discord server where Google employees were known to hang out and informally help people Ummm, got any more details on where I can find that server?
  - ochre-ogre 2y ago
    I found it via the Google sub-reddit. There appears to have been some kind of internal clampdown, I just checked and the Google Discord server has been renamed to The Tech Collective (https://discord.gg/techcollective https://discord.gg/techcollective). No idea if employees at Google are still a part of it.

nikanj 2y ago

Fortunately they were able to reach the only reliable Google support desk: The HN front page. Getting this resolved via Google's official channels is about very unlikely, but now their issue has reached the eyes of people who actually can help

RataNova 2y ago

I just cannot believe sometimes how broken YouTube's support system is. And the irony of YouTube treating their automated mistake as irreversible while expecting creators to just deal with it is maddening

LeoPanthera 2y ago

This is long since solved, but due to a Gmail error, I managed to be the recipient for every email sent to google@gmail.com. I only managed to get it fixed because I happened to know someone who worked at Google. I would never trust Google with anything even vaguely important. If something goes wrong, it will be wrong forever.

rkuodys 2y ago

As a person, not from UK can someone explain how could Google / YT obtain information about name/surname based solely on phone number. Isn't that GDPR infringement right there ? If my son were to use my phone anywhere, there is no consent on my part to share my personal information with the service provider.

tokamak 2y ago

How else to block sanctioned country individuals? This is a problem on YouTube where American company is basically supporting regimes indirectly.

nullc 2y ago

Another reason to never give companies your phone number is because as soon as you do simswappers will be able to take over your account-- seems once a company knows a phone number they will simply be unable to resist "recovering" your account for someone who can receive SMSes at it.

buyucu 2y ago

Google does this all the time. It's a very bad idea to put everything you have to Google.

PeterStuer 2y ago

Over here in Belgium telcos will reuse mobile telephone numbers if the client leaves without transfering the number to a new service. This results in people getting a new mobile subscription with a number that can not be used to create a new Google account (this number has been used too many times), or e.g. get the Whatsapp account from the previous owner (as you recover the account by a text to the number)

bsimpson 2y ago
This is a standard feature in the US too. Since the advent of cell phones and free long distance, people tend to keep a single number for longer, but there used to be a trope about getting wrong number calls for someone who had died and had his number recycled.

radicality 2y ago

I vaguely remember once browsing the depths of Verizon settings pages and found something under privacy section, and immediately switched it to ‘Do not agree’. I don’t think I had any issues because of it, but it’s really infuriating that the default is of course “Agree to give my data to everyone for all purposes”. Setting name was: > With your authorization, Verizon provides certain account, device, and profile data related to your Verizon account to third parties for the purpose of helping companies you do business with verify your identity and help protect you against identity theft and account takeover. If you use Verizon, setting is here: https://www.verizon.com/digital/nsa/secure/ui/acct/profile/privacypreferences/identityverificationsettings https://www.verizon.com/digital/nsa/secure/ui/acct/profile/p...

globular-toast 2y ago

Whenever I see these threads pop up I feel sorry for all the people whose posts don't go to the front page of Reddit etc.

foxglacier 2y ago

I'm surprised they got the phone account owner's details. Maybe what really happened is that his mum previously used the same number for something on Google before giving the phone to him, so YouTube thinks he's her. Still inexcusable since people can and do give their phone to somebody else like this.

patshoemaker 2y ago

[flagged]

patshoemaker 2y ago

need to verify my cell number from hackers 404- 593-5289