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Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

• sitzkrieg 2y ago
  linux userspace is pure garbage
  • itvision 2y ago
    Not pure garbage I'd say but too many projects are indeed lacking. glibc has worked great except there's no forward compatibility :-)
    • kmbfjr 2y ago
      It may not be garbage, but it is pure chaos.
• foderking 2y ago
  2025 year of Linux desktop finally?
  • RajT88 2y ago
    Dang, beat me to it.
• perihelions 2y ago
  - "The vast majority of applications exist only for Windows, and speaking of games, Linux hasn't seen any AAA titles for many years now," The vast majority of AAA titles run seamlessly on Linux. Per protondb[0], ≥80% of the top 10, top 100, and top 1000 are rated "platinum" or "gold" for Linux functioning (by users). [0] https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/
  • musicale 2y ago
    Steam Deck wouldn't be a thing if Steam/Windows games didn't run well on Proton/Linux.
  • atoav 2y ago
    Just played Red Dead Redemtion 2 on Kubuntu 24. Doesn't get any more AAA than that.
  • talldayo 2y ago
    > Also, despite millions of players, it's hard to call CS2 an AAA title because it's based on Direct3D 11 (which is now more than a decade old) and lacks modern lighting techniques like ray tracing. Some of the quotes from the OP's page border on parody. So, CS2 doesn't count as a AAA title because it's based on DX11 and doesn't have realtime ray tracing. But apparently this same person is oblivious to the fact that both real-time RT and DX12 translation have been completely usable on Linux for years now. Nvidia helped ship native RT to Linux clients in Wolfenstein: Youngblood, and Proton has supported the majority of DX12 games with RT since before the Steam Deck existed. Kinda makes you glad that this is the final edition, if that's the sort of due diligence being exercised.
    • hysan 2y ago
      I got halfway through it before realizing that it’s just a clickbait article.
      • itvision 2y ago
        Yes, look up the author's name. Look at their contributions to the Linux kernel, GCC, KDE, Wine, and many other projects. A total clickbait for sure.
        • talldayo 2y ago
          I don't think that will convince many people. Appealing to authority is one third of rhetoric, Aristotle would say that you need emotion or logic to convince me completely. Speaking for myself, I'm mostly surprised that someone with such an intimate knowledge of Linux has ignored it's developments to this extent. This entire thread is mostly at the consensus that you have tortured many of the talking points in this article beyond taking seriously. Many in this thread have also identified that MacOS and Windows are deficient in several of the criteria you listed. So what even is a desktop, really? An ideal, or a thing people use?
          • itvision 2y ago
  • teruakohatu 2y ago
    Wine/proton work so well at this point it may as well just be considered just another runtime environment (like Java or the .Net vm).
    • out_of_protocol 2y ago
      Best stable ABI for linux :/ (somehow win32 is indeed best stable runtime for linux)
      • ChocolateGod 2y ago
        Sadly true. Somehow people think bundling half of /usr/lib is the solution.
    • zahlman 2y ago
      I'm seeing a lot of endorsement of Wine ITT, which is strange to me because the Linux Mint forums constantly seem to trash it whenever it comes up. (I'm not particularly interested in any programs that would need it.)
      • ryao 2y ago
        You are probably seeing endorsements of proton rather than vanilla wine. Proton is more than just wine (although wine is the most importantly part) and it works much better than vanilla wine.
  • pyrale 2y ago
    The one thing that fucks up games for linux is some specific anticheat software, and seeing how e.g. Valorant anticheat works, I'm glad it doesn't.
  • orangecat 2y ago
    Anecdotal, but I've had maybe a 60% success rate running platinum-rated games under Proton, with an unremarkable Ryzen 3900/RTX 2070 desktop. I suspect the further you are from Steam Deck hardware the more trouble you're likely to have. The M4 Mac mini finally convinced me to give up on a Linux desktop for now; the combination of native Mac games, Whisky, and Windows via VMWare works at least as well as Proton for me, and everything else including development is much more convenient, including running Linux VMs when useful.
  • mardifoufs 2y ago
    Okay, that still leaves an insane amount of applications. Games aren't the only thing that people run on their PC. Plus, I think they meant that no native port of AAA games have been published on Linux recently, not that windows games can't run on Linux with additional tooling. though I'm not sure how true that is.
    • ninkendo 2y ago
      An insane amount of applications are webapps nowadays anyway. Linux has chrome and Firefox which means you get 99% of relevant “applications”.
    • ghaff 2y ago
      Outside of some games and relatively high-end multimedia apps and maybe some dev tools, basically no one cares about the OS. I probably spend 95% in a MacBook using it as a browser.
  • gjsman-1000 2y ago
    Steam also runs on Chromebook; which is easily showing that this is a very shallow victory for Linux on the desktop as a platform. If you can survive with Proton, LibreOffice, and GIMP; you can much more comfortably survive with Proton on ChromeOS, Google Docs, and Photopea. Just hating Windows is not enough of a reason to be a Linux user, and as long as that is the case, Linux will remain niche.
    • newdee 2y ago
      Just hating Windows and wanting to use a beefy dedicated GPU/CPU (not a flimsy feeling Chromebook) is more than enough reason
  • geokon 2y ago
    I mean it's maybe "seamless" if you use a system provided by the top DRM platform. Using wine directly it's unfortunately not very seamless. I don't really play games much but my recent experience hasn't been great. Last week I tried to run Witcher 3 using wine and it took a while to debug. The installer runs immediately and seemlessly - but then it got messy It involved installing `winetricks` which seems to be some service that installs a multitude of driver, libs and software through a clunky unresponsive UI. (not clear where it's being installed from, but #yolo) The necessary libraries I had to deduce from reading forum posts and the errors I got on launch. You then had to go in and make sure to launch the directx 11 version of the game (ie the .exe) buried in a hidden directory (~/.wine/) Is this was "Platinum" means.. i don't want to image what Gold entails
    • talldayo 2y ago
      You seem to be kinda confused. ProtonDB does not reflect how well Wine runs a program, it reflects how well Proton runs it. If you try to create a Wine environment with the same featureset and patches that Proton has by default, you will waste a lot of time. A lot of things (eg. Powershell, d3d/DXVK, dotnet, C++ redistributables, etc.) come pre-packaged with Proton and therefore require no extra configuration to run a compatible game. What you want is to use a program like Lutris or Bottles to manage your runtime for you, if you're not installing it through Steam. I don't know who put you up to installing Wild Hunt on a vanilla Wine prefix but they sound like someone with a good sense of humor.
      • geokon 2y ago
        Thanks for the info! I will take a look at Lutris/Bottles. I just assumed Wine would work directly. It's worked for me most of the time in the past
  • anothernewdude 2y ago
    I don't even bother to check now before buying games.
  • jakebasile 2y ago
    I've only accidentally (via a GeForce Now trial before I gave Steam Remote Play another try) played a video game on a Windows computer in the past two years. The only games that routinely cause problems are those with ridiculous kernel-level anticheat, and I am not interested in those games.
  • layer8 2y ago
    …and, ironically, that’s because they are based on stable Windows APIs.
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  • itvision 2y ago
    DirectX and Win32 are Windows APIs. Are you saying Linux has "games" because it excels at ... emulating them? What's the point of using/running Linux then when you have a much higher chance of running games successfully natively? What about dozens if not hundreds of games that use a kernel level anticheat? Pretty much none of them work in Linux. What's the point of native Linux APIs then? That's weird. Wine + DXVK are so good, Linux is GREAT. No, it shows how horrible Linux is when not a single vendor outside of Valve wants to touch it. And everyone who tried to port games to Linux went bankrupt.
    • ryao 2y ago
      Proton does such a good job that it is difficult to justify the cost of porting games when they already run on Linux in Proton. That said, Feral Interactive is still porting games to Linux and they have not gone bankrupt: https://www.feralinteractive.com/en/news/?platform=linux https://www.feralinteractive.com/en/news/?platform=linux Proton often runs games better than the native ports, so there is not much of a loss if there are fewer native ports. Furthermore, in a number of cases, Windows games actually run better on Linux in Proton than on Windows. Elden Ring is a fantastic example, as on day 1, it performed about 15% better on Linux in average FPS, and had substantially less stutter if I recall correctly. World of Warcraft is another great example. It is well known to get about 20% better performance on Linux than on Windows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2_LlSaYNUo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2_LlSaYNUo Minecraft is another such game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytgDMgYL0eo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytgDMgYL0eo If you use AMD GPUs, it is more often the case that Linux will outperform Windows in games, since Valve wrote the shader compiler used for them on Linux and it is fairly amazing: https://steamcommunity.com/games/221410/announcements/detail/1602634609636894200 https://steamcommunity.com/games/221410/announcements/detail... Nvidia is working on improvements for the performance of Windows games running on Linux too. A recent driver release mentions a few such improvements: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/details/237587/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/details/237587/ Not all games perform better on Linux than on Windows, although Valve has people actively working on changing this: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/wiki/Changelog https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/wiki/Changelog
  • ThatPlayer 2y ago
    Because those are ratings are based on consolidated user ratings, some of them are outdated and still marked Gold. Grand Theft Auto V is Gold, but online doesn't work anymore. Yet users are still giving it a thumbs up because singleplayer works. Apex Legends is also still Gold, and completely no longer works since there's no singleplayer So it's not really ≥80% for top 10 at least.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• gsfdxhchjv 2y ago
  who is the intended audience of the article?
  • timbit42 2y ago
    The author's ego.
    • itvision 2y ago
      I'm doing fine thanks. You could find me among Linux kernel contributors.
      • seba_dos1 2y ago
        You can find me there too, but hopefully I'm not this insufferable :)
        • ryao 2y ago
          Same here. I have a few patches in the Linux kernel. If I am ever like this guy, please tell me.
  • itvision 2y ago
    No one, you could read just the first couple of paragraphs. The PC is more or less dead and Linux on desktop is even more dead.
• the__alchemist 2y ago
  I've been patiently trying a distro of Linux every other year for the past 20... Someday. The general trend: Things work well from a native install. When you start installing software and drivers, the OS gets totalled, sooner or later. > What's worse is that software compiled for the current version of Linux X will not necessarily work for the current version of Linux Y. Linux distros insist that all the software must be compiled for their current releases or provided as source code. The problem with source code is that normal users won't bother to compile anything, and secondly, it's not always possible to compile software because it may depend on a specific compiler or dependencies that your distro doesn't provide This is at the core of it, I think. Forcing a user to compile C code is a bad user experience; it often fails due to linking or other dependency-related errors.
  • marcodiego 2y ago
    Described my windows experience. Except that windows insistently tries to convince you to make an account and has a very startmenu behavior.
  • pshirshov 2y ago
    But you don't install software and drivers on Linux, you edit your nix flake, switch and it always works. If it doesn't work up to your liking, you boot into the previous generation. Also for some mysterious reasons, compiling C code under Nix always works and dependencies can't be missing.
    • t-writescode 2y ago
      NixOS is certainly the most obvious design paradigm with the most confusing integration / implementation I've ever seen. It feels a bit like "Emacs is my favorite operating system, if only it had a text editor" NixOS's philosophy? amazing. Actually trying to use, install stuff to, make changes to, etc. NixOS with the currently existing tools? horrible.
      • pshirshov 2y ago
        The benefits outweight the issues.
• rbanffy 2y ago
  Again? I’ve been using Linux on my desktop since 2004 or so. And lack of games is always brought up as if gaming was one essential feature of a computer. That’s what consoles are for.
  • coffeebeqn 2y ago
    With Proton, Wine, Lutris etc you certainly can also game on a Linux if you want. I was just playing Path of Exile 2 on the Steam Deck (a Linux desktop)
  • gcau 2y ago
    Games happen to be software, that hundreds of millions use, especially younger tech-oriented people. So yes, it IS essential if you want to make a PC people will use.
  • white-flame 2y ago
    Besides proton/wine/VMs for gaming which are all very good, console/computer emulation for gaming is solid in Linux, including literal plug and play joystick support.
  • anotherhue 2y ago
    Games are particularly interesting though, because they're likely the only legacy software an average person might want to run, while also being the most likely to be closed source. Anyway, desktop Linux keeps getting relatively better when you compare the increasing hell that a Windows user is subject to. (Hello hello Ricardo)
  • kbolino 2y ago
    There are a lot of games that will never make it to consoles because they don't play well (or at all) without a keyboard and mouse. It's also easier (sometimes much easier) to develop games on PC. That having been said, most games work fine on Linux nowadays anyway.
  • silisili 2y ago
    Same, well, earlier, but Warty was my first time going all in and not dual booting. I don't game, so that doesn't bother me, though I read it works pretty well these days. I've used nothing but Linux since, of various flavors. Use it for work, use it for home. Everything just works. One thing I will note is that despite my general distaste for Electron, it's probably been the biggest recent accelerant for making this all easier. Slack, VSCode, Teams(yuck), MongoDB compass, Postman, etc all work flawlessly. Prior to it existing, we were stuck with Wine, open source alternatives in various states of disrepair, or missing out. I can't even remember the last time I had to 'miss out' because of Linux, I think it was some proprietary VPN blob around 2010 or so.
• EA-3167 2y ago
  I don't agree with the author, but fair enough, he makes some good points. Where he really loses me though is in section 7. Now maybe I've just been miraculously fortunate, and found the best part of the Linux/Steam Deck community, but I've literally never been told to fix it myself, that I'm expecting too much, etc. What I have found is that people are almost overwhelmingly friendly and eager to help, they see a new person entering their beloved realm of Linux gaming and they want you to fall in love like they did.
• leonixyz 2y ago
  Thank you for keeping people away from Linux with these kind of opinions. It makes my life as a Linux software engineer much more profitable.
  • itvision 2y ago
    Desktop Linux market share speaks for itself. It's basically 0 or close to 0. I know I know it's been around 2 or even 3%. It's laughable. And 99% of its users are hackers (programmers/developers/engineers/scientists/etc).
• pshirshov 2y ago
  Recently a friend of mine asked me to help him with his Surface laptop. He was unable to install Windows whatever he tried. I didn't believe him but it was exactly as he said - during the first boot the laptop would turn off and then show a generic error next boot. Ubuntu worked just fine. What was the issue? Immediately after power management initialization during the first boot the system seen that the battery was in a bad condition and tried to hibernate but for some reason crashed instead. Out of warranty, the battery is extremely hard to replace, so a registry quirk injected through a Linux boot cd immediately after setup helped. Is Windows actually ready for desktop?
• p0w3n3d 2y ago
  For example, Windows or Android software from ten years ago will still work in Windows 11 or Android 15 or whatever their current versions are. For Windows, software compatibility is actually excellent: a lot of 32-bit Windows 95 software still runs perfectly on Windows 11 64 almost 30 years later. Nothing remotely close exists for Linux. I completely disagree. Android applications made for older versions DO NOT work nowadays. Windows applications usually do not install and to run them you have to install them on old version and upgrade. Backward compatibility is no longer the key point for OS creators, and I would say they event want to break it somehow (like Android new set of permissions and removing old apps from the store)
  • a3w 2y ago
    > linux is not an operating system Correct, there are some Gnu/Linux-en, and there is Android/Linux. Which may not be a classical desktop OS, but some platforms like Samsung phones emulate floating window management and multitasking, making it an okay desktop OS. And Android has a huge market share, so perhaps "Linux won over Windows" already, just not on the desktop. Did the author do any fact checking, proton (developed for Steam OS) runs so many games, it is unbelievable. Trollish opinion piece behind the link.
  • itvision 2y ago
    I have lots of ten year old Android apps running on my Android 14 without too many issues. In Wine/Windows I run Windows applications from the 90s. In Windows 11 64 you can install and use Office 97. In Linux nothing even close is possible. People do care about old applications. They really do.
    • ryao 2y ago
      This is untrue. You can run old Linux binaries on modern Linux systems if you have the older libraries. You want to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to where the old libraries are located. By the way, any Android applications using Google’s old messaging APIs no longer work and need to be rewritten to use fire base. I know people who were bitten by that multiple times since Google had to keep reinventing push notifications.
• karaterobot 2y ago
  If the vast majority of applications and games are built for Windows, and that means I shouldn't use Linux, I suppose the same is true about this Macbook I'm on right now. You know what, I'm tossing it out the window the second after I post this message.
• graemep 2y ago
  Very trollish. The second such article I have seen recently on the HN front page. What does "not ready for the desktop" even mean? Its been ready for MY desktop for over 20 years. Points 1,2,3 and 4 are pretty much wrong. Point 5 is a problem for other OSes too (there are bugs in applications!), point 6 is only relevant if you have particular hardware you want to work with Linux, and point 7 is not my experience.
  • wazoox 2y ago
    Hardware support is so much better in Linux it's not even funny. I mean you can't even install windows server on most PCs because there aren't any drivers ! This trolling is beyond ridiculous.
    • sombragris 2y ago
      Seconded. Back in 2015 I got a Toshiba Satellite Radius convertible laptop. X11 ran there even with touchscreen support. Plus, USB3 ran smoothly. Now I'm using a Dell, and again, full hardware support with zero issues using Wayland and Pipewire. And I use Slackware, not exactly a sophisticated distro, but one that just offers upstream software with no modification.
      • wazoox 2y ago
        And don't forget all of the devices that become obsolete under windows and still "just work" with Linux, like old scanners, printers, cards and adapters of all kinds.
• yoyohello13 2y ago
  All I can say as a person using Linux exclusively for the last 10 years: - You're using the wrong Linux distribution - You're using the wrong Linux kernel version - You have the wrong hardware - You're using Linux incorrectly - You're asking for too much - Go debug or fix it yourself. Edit: This is sarcasm by the way. These bullets come from the article. In all seriousness though. I think another poster had the right idea. Linux requires a mindset shift. You must be willing to be a master of your own destiny. I've used Linux largely problem free for 10 years. I took some time to learn how to do things "the Linux way" but once I did it's been smooth sailing. I recently have had to use Windows for work and it's annoying as hell. Every day after lunch one of my monitors just turns off and rearranges all my windows. On Linux, I could dig into the problem, and worse case just have a xrandr script to hack a solution together. On Windows I'm just SOL looking and dead Windows message board threads.
  • t-writescode 2y ago
    In part, all of this right here is why there's still a collection of people who don't consider Linux a viable alternative. It's giving a mix of "You're holding it wrong" and Stack Overflow's "Question Marked as Duplicate"
    • the__alchemist 2y ago
      That's an exquisite analogy.
    • zahlman 2y ago
      >and Stack Overflow's "Question Marked as Duplicate" Based on my experience on Meta, and various random Reddit threads where people complain: in like 90% of cases where someone complains that a Stack Overflow question was unjustly marked as a duplicate, I could go take a look and then write out a clear step by step explanation of not only how it is very obviously a duplicate by Stack Overflow's standards, but exactly how to apply the advice from answers on the target to the original problem. Even if I didn't previously know anything about the technologies involved. Please keep in mind that it is not the purpose of Stack Overflow to solve the problem you are currently encountering. The purpose of Stack Overflow is to answer a question that can be useful to others. If your program doesn't work, it is explicitly, by policy, your responsibility to debug first; the point of creating a Minimal Reproducible Example is to demonstrate that you have found the problem and have a legitimate question about why it is a problem. Someone who closes your question as a duplicate is doing you a kindness. You immediately get answers and don't have to wait for someone else to write one. Closing duplicates is also doing everyone else a kindness, by helping to make sure that, when people use a search engine to find an answer on Stack Overflow, they all end up at the right place with the best-stated version of the question and the best answers for it. In many cases, the person who identifies a duplicate has gone out of the way to figure out the problem (despite an unclear explanation or an attempt to sneak in side questions about unrelated matters).
• bongodongobob 2y ago
  This article is low effort flamebait. 1. This section is basically pedantry. "you cant use the same software across multiple Linux distros". OK? And PC software doesn't run on a Mac. They are different OS's "Linux" being confused as it's own OS, is just, whatever. 2. Windows and Macs have plenty of bugs too. So much so that we don't do in-place server upgrades, it's a full rebuild each version. I mean look at the Windows 10-11 upgrade situation, it's not great. 3. Lack of general software and games - What? You can play AAA games on Steam on Linux out of the box for the most part. I will concede that industry specific software is likely going to be Windows only, but you can run Windows in a VM. There are options here. 4. Network file sharing isn't any different than on Windows, this is just nonsense. 5. Lack of funding - hand wavy and again, whatever. 6. Hardware support - I haven't really had hardware issues in years. Every Lenovo laptop I've installed Linux on works flawlessly, even Wifi drivers are present in setup. 7. Nonsense again. The Linux community is super helpful.
• bryanlarsen 2y ago
  I've been working on a cross-platform Windows/MacOS/Linux application for the last 2 years. All three of them have very significant pain points. Linux isn't ready for the desktop, but neither are Windows and MacOS in significantly different ways.
• lbj 2y ago
  I wonder who he keeps running into. Not only do I use Linux on a daily basis, I run about 20 virtual *nixs from that Linux desktop and everything runs really great, but when I run into problems, the Arch community (ie. colleagues, forums, mailing lists) have been nothing but extremely helpful and friendly. Without exception. Is Arch the exception?
  • zahlman 2y ago
    Some people really hate when they ask a question that's answered in TFM and are answered by a link to an entire TFM page. There's a huge demand for "please help me understand exactly how this applies in my exact situation", especially for less technically-minded people. The Mint forums are helpful enough, but they tend to demand tons of ultimately irrelevant system info up front, commonly misdiagnose problems, and give blanket advice that often ignores more detailed concerns. (Also, the site has been very unstable lately.)
    • lbj 2y ago
      Well, you triggered my memory. I have in fact seen a huge amount of "read the manual". But that said, the manual is really, really good :)
• omolobo 2y ago
  [dead]
• __fst__ 2y ago
  I'm using Linux as my main desktop for so long now (>15yrs) that I probably wouldn't be able to handle a modern Windows system anymore. I have not touched any Windows installation for years, and everytime I have to help my wife with some issue on her Windows laptop I just find it crazy how people can tolerate that. It might not be on the same quality level as MacOS but I like the freedom of choice Linux gives me.
• roland35 2y ago
  I actually just installed Ubuntu desktop on a spare mini PC I had to try out some cpp game development, and it is a surprisingly nice experience! I prefer it over my windows PC which seems plagued with weird occasional glitches. I still need windows for some things like CAD tools, but I think I'll stick with Ubuntu for most things!
• mvanbaak 2y ago
  cant wait for 'the final edition, part 2' next year ...
  • itvision 2y ago
    There won't be one. I've said it all. I was thinking about adding a "Security" section but I wasn't convinced it was necessary. Security in Linux is horrible in general. * People use `sudo` for anything and everything all the time. * `git pull whatever_crap_from_the_web` and run it happily. * Tens of thousands of pieces of malware via NPMs and other frameworks. * No AV of any kind (the one that actually executes code in a sandbox and verifies its safe). * Permissions/users/groups/pam.d/logind/selinux/apparmor - it's a huge intricate mess.
    • ryao 2y ago
      Verifying arbitrary code is safe is not possible for AV to do. If you know some way to do what you describe, you can commercialize it and become rich. Many would pay top dollar for such technology.
      • itvision 2y ago
        Virtualization and sandbox environment code execution have been available for years now in multiple Windows AVs. And it works great. Linux on the other hand has absolutely nothing and it's still "OK". "Windows is not perfect and thus Linux is OK". I've heard that way too many times. Sorry, doesn't work for me.
        • ryao 2y ago
          That is a waste of resources that cannot prove the safety of arbitrary code. If you want safe code, use code only from trusted sources.
          • itvision 2y ago
            Windows gives a semblance of trusted code, also Microsoft sells certificates to developers. Nothing (!) like that exists in the Linux world aside from PGP cross singing which barely any projects use because of its sheer complexity. Don't lie about Windows and don't lie about Linux. And Windows 10/11 both mandate that installers are signed before you can even launch them, so there's a very decent first line of defense which is TOTALLY missing in Linux. Also, "trusted sources"? Who and why would you trust? Seasoned engineers in my company git pull any crap from the web and run it happily without thinking twice because AGILE and things like RoR. Who do you trust among thousands of modules? God damn it. Linux fans will make up all sorts of crappy pseudo-arguments to portray it as a decent/secure/stable OS and it's none of that. On servers where you don't touch anything and never install third-party software? Yeah, surely. No one cares.
• hactually 2y ago
  > Finally, since drivers in Linux are generally part of the kernel (there are a few exceptions, including NVIDIA), you cannot upgrade them to the latest version or downgrade them to the version that worked for you on the fly. You have to boot into a different kernel. This is extremely inconvenient and not always possible I mean, that's just false. Most drivers are done as kernel modules and you can push/pull them in without missing a beat. if he's talking about graphics cards or similar subsystems - you might need a reboot, much like Windows does. IMO, this reads like a gamer reviewing Linux because they thought it would be cool without knowing much about to use it as a workstation to get shit done.
  • itvision 2y ago
    > I mean, that's just false. Most drivers are done as kernel modules and you can push/pull them in without missing a beat. 0.1% of people in the world could that. 0.001% of people in the world would do that. That's not false, your understanding of a decent OS is just lacking. In Windows you can swap drivers however you want given they support your Windows version.
    • ryao 2y ago
      You assume Windows is a decent OS. Many who know better would not.
      • itvision 2y ago
        I have no assumptions. Windows is installed on 2 billion PCs, give or take. It works great on them, too. Long gone are the days of malware waves or driver failures that break the system. Linux is on 40 millions. And the amount of pain I see daily on Linux-related forums trumps Windows' woes by an insane margin.
        • ryao 2y ago
          I would not call limping along from extreme levels of telemetry, AV and other bloat “works great”. Discussing “driver failures that break the system” is a strawman since bad drivers never really broke the system. They just crashed it such that it needed a reboot. That said, Microsoft lets garbage that has no business being in the kernel into the NT kernel, which resulted in this fiasco that actually broke Windows systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_CrowdStrike-related_IT_outages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_CrowdStrike-related_IT_ou... Windows systems often suffer from cryptolockers, which could be considered malware waves. You have a stratification bias by looking at forums where people are asking for help. I have installed Linux for a number of non-computer people to solve Windows problems and it has served them well. They all like it better than Windows. The average person really is fine with a Ubuntu install. The only reason Windows has such usage is that it is installed by default due to history. If a Linux distribution were installed by default, there would not be many Windows users.
• jmclnx 2y ago
  When I see the articles I believe the title should be "Linux is not Windows so I do not like it". I have used Linux for just shy of 30 years. It is different than Windows and far more powerful. It is just that people do not want to learn different things. Plus Linux has no spyware. These days, you can do anything on Linux that you do on Windows, except for some 3d Gaming. And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows. It is the fault of Video vendors, most notability Nvidia. So off to my usual rant :) If I was the "ruler" of Linux, I would make sure no Nvidia GPUs would work under Linux until Nvidia opens up their GPU.
  • sys_64738 2y ago
    > It is just that people do not want to learn different things The differences from Windows versions 7 to 10 to 11 are substantial. To me it seemed like a consistent desktop experience from Linux Mint is much better for those who do not want change at all.
    • zahlman 2y ago
      Agreed. Going from Mint 20 to 22, the experience in Cinnamon (/ Muffin / LightDM / Nemo stack) is a ton more stable, and there's a lot more readily available customization that's a lot nicer to do overall (notwithstanding the bits that are hidden in a binary file designed for `dconf`).
  • HideousKojima 2y ago
    >These days, you can do anything on Linux that you do on Windows, except for some 3d Gaming. And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows. It is the fault of Video vendors, most notability Nvidia. Even GPU drivers work fine for 90-99% of games on Linux. The biggest issue keeping certain games from running on Linux is actually anti-cheat support: https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/
    • ChocolateGod 2y ago
      > And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows Because Linux does not support hardware (or at least new hardware) in the same Windows does. AMD makes new graphics card, steps on Windows vs Linux to release an updated driver to support it Windows - Update driver, release via Windows Update / Website etc Linux - Send patches months in advance to the LKML using email, make sure any patches needed in Mesa are also sent in with a completely different system. Then, wait for your patches to be peer reviewed and land, then wait for a kernel release, then wait for distros to package said kernel and release it, which if you're on a distro that fixes to a kernel version, could be waiting 6 months.
• pyrale 2y ago
  Always fun to learn that what I've been doing for a while now isn't working.
• darren0 2y ago
  Stop trying to make fetch happen.
• kube-system 2y ago
  These are a bunch of reasons why the top 1% of the most technical users in the world might not use Linux on their desktop. For everyone else, the reason they don't use Linux on their desktop is because it didn't come installed on it. If somebody does to desktops like what Google did for smartphones, then Linux will finally have its moment.
  • pyrale 2y ago
    > If somebody does to desktops like what Google did for smartphones, [...] Somebody does to desktops what Google did for smartphone. The company is called Microsoft, and the behaviour is called blatant monopoly abuse.
    • kube-system 2y ago
      I'm referring to Linux being the basis of Android.
      • ChocolateGod 2y ago
        Outside of the Linux kernel, there is very little shared technology between Android and the Linux desktops. They didn't even use the same graphics drivers till late.
        • kube-system 2y ago
          > Outside of the Linux kernel, there is very little shared technology between Android and the Linux desktops. lol... so, all of it? Linux is a kernel. Regardless, my point had absolutely nothing to do with technology. Android's popularity has absolutely nothing to do with Linux and/or what it shipped with or didn't ship with. Its popularity has everything to do with the fact that it shipped preinstalled on devices that people bought. Linux isn't going to become popular on desktops until it is shipped on desktops.
          • ChocolateGod 2y ago
• mulmen 2y ago
  I built a new PC in the fall of 2022 and set it up to dual boot Windows and Fedora. I haven’t booted the Windows partition in over a year. Fedora does everything I need from a desktop, including Steam.
• weare138 2y ago
  What are we comparing this too? With the exception of Windows software able to run on Windows, you could make everyone of those claims in spades about Windows. I would recommend OP go administer an enterprise Windows network and stare into the abyss like I did during my stint in the corporate world. And I won't be doing that again.
  • bongodongobob 2y ago
    So I disagree with the author completely, but enterprise is where MS actually shines. I can't imagine trying to manage 1000's of users, file access, permissions, etc from cobbled together bash scripts. M365/Azure/AD is how all large orgs are run. The only time I see Linux in this space is for some one off VMs running apps in Docker or something.
• adriancr 2y ago
  This was funny considering Linux runs on almost anything is everywhere: > 6. Hardware support and compatibility
  • kube-system 2y ago
    Yes, but running on refrigerators, trains, or web servers doesn't make it a better or more successful consumer desktop kernel.
    • adriancr 2y ago
      Sure, but it being ubiquitous should give developers a hint where future lies. Consumers will eventually follow. (see android).
      • jitl 2y ago
        Android is a repudiation of traditional “distro” Linux userspace. I think it’s Android approach that has the best chance of reaching mainstream adoption in the laptop form factor with consumers.
        • adriancr 2y ago
          Android does not exist in laptop format currently and I see no use case for that. On the other hand I see lots of people using linux on laptops just fine. They are probably counted as windows because it comes preinstalled and there's no choice to give it up and get money back. So you might be wrong on your prediction.
          • jitl 2y ago
            I'm not saying "android on a laptop is the way of the future". I'm saying the Android model, to sweep aside the status quo distros and start fresh with new approach to userspace, is the path I see most likely to bring Linux to the masses in laptop/desktop form factor. If the people you see using Linux on the laptop are developers, then I don't think they count as "consumers" - they're on the production side of things! I don't know any consumers who use Linux on a laptop. I last gave it a shot in 2018 but decided it's not for me.
• shams93 2y ago
  I've been using various forms of linux desktop since 1998, now I have settled on arch/manjaro/lxde, I can get away with a cheap machine with only 4 gigs of ram and still do everything I want to with it. I use it for pro audio, writing and coding. For employers for a long time they would provide me with windows, and then in the 2010s that switched to Mac but both of those are intentionally bloated today. Linux Desktop is good for the environment.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• kittikitti 2y ago
  Windows is Xbox for PC. Linux is for everything else.
• paxys 2y ago
  Anecdotally, over the last 15 or so years I've been a professional programmer the number of fellow devs I've seen using Linux as the primary OS of choice on their dev machines has gone down considerably. Most are on macOS now, and I'd say even Windows has greater usage than Linux in recent years. Docker I think is the primary reason for the switch. You can develop anywhere and be reasonably certain that your application will work the same on a Linux server. I'm not sure if there even is a target market for Desktop linux anymore.
  • itvision 2y ago
    That's been the case indeed. Thanks a lot.
• Hizonner 2y ago
  I've been using it on the desktop for about 30 years now. I've never used Windows for anything. It's not ready.
• totalhack 2y ago
  The constant struggle is the lagging support for the best hardware. Unless you want to buy a machine from a dedicated Linux shop (framework, System76, tuxedo), you are taking a risk buying anything remotely new without a lot of research into the hardware and hunting for posts about people who have had success. Those dedicated Linux shops are usually at least a generation behind too. It doesn't help that architectures are evolving rapidly in response to Apple's chips (not a bad thing long term). Just bought an HP omnibook flip with an Intel 258v. From what I've read I expect most things to work, or work soon with kernel updates. All applications I care about work well. Would be nice to see OpenAI make a desktop app for Linux, or some other open source equivalent.
  • tuna74 2y ago
    You can but Lenovo and Dell laptops with support.
• IgorPartola 2y ago
  The main criticism I see as valid here is first point: software distribution is tricky. For macOS and Windows you basically have a model where you can go to a website, download a binary, install it, and it runs. Most Linux distros won’t jive with that very well. And because every Linux distro uses a different theme and one of a dozen UI libraries/DEs/etc. the downloaded GUI application will look bad because it won’t fit in. Flatpacks and snaps really are a solution that just allows you to not pollute your OS file system (which was never designed with the concept of apps: there are no reasonable namespaces, no easy ways to uninstall, etc.) and to statically compile the app so the next OS update doesn’t break it. If the distro contains everything you want in its repositories you can use an “App Store” front end to get what you need and the OS will helpfully keep it up to date which is more than you can say for Windows and almost what you can say for macOS. But if you need a third party app you are out of luck: including it in the distro is a process most people won’t want to undertake. The solution is likely not going to make the nerds happy: something like snaps are the right abstraction for Applications (I am using the capitalized version here to distinguish it from system programs). What will also happen is that some Linux distros will support this kind of solution out of the box and will be the desktop distros. Not every Linux distro will be blessed with being able to run popular apps. Ubuntu is likely on the right track for this and the Unix purists will hate it more every year as it loses the original shared system philosophy and inches closer to what macOS provides. So the real question is: do you use your Linux distro desktop for the kernel, the package system, the package repositories, or the 1337 cred?
  • seanp2k2 2y ago
    Windows has been isolating dependencies for a while now too, but for security, since their entire security model was pretty awful before, largely because of the need to support decades-old applications that business customers / governments still rely on. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/device-protection-in-windows-security-afa11526-de57-b1c5-599f-3a4c6a61c5e2 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/device-protectio...
    • IgorPartola 2y ago
      I have really come around to this way of thinking. Either you use the walled garden that is the distro’s own repos with only the blessed software of specific slightly out of date versions, or you allow arbitrary software but have to isolate it. The former works for some use cases but not for “Linux on the desktop” as most typical users define it.
• larrydag 2y ago
  I've been using Linux for 15+ years. Here are my counterpoints. 1. Linux is a software ecosystem. Varying flavors and options to fill almost any need of computing solution. 2. Bugs and Regressions are crowd-source community solved. Bugs don't last long if it's keeping something from working. 3. There are so many open-source games native to Linux/Windows/Mac that don't get enough attention. Most of them are free too. 4. Filesharing on linux is as simple as a command line operation. See rsync. Also there are countless GUI apps that use rsync. 5. Funding is everywhere in Linux and open source software. See IBM, RedHat, Google, Microsoft, Amazon among a few. 6. Hardware drivers are plentiful for Linux. Hardly have any issues. 7. The community will help you. They've helped me for years.
• seanp2k2 2y ago
  laughing on behalf of all the VFX folks who work on movies all day using desktop Linux https://vfxplatform.com/linux/ https://vfxplatform.com/linux/ Yeah, I get that this is called out under business / professionals, but I've also used Ubuntu (more recently Pop!_OS, and Fedora before that) as a daily driver for >a decade and given small-form-factor PCs with Ubuntu to relatives who have successfully used them for web and basic LibreOffice work for years without major issues. When people ask me for recommendations for a family PC these days, I tell them to just get an iPad or Mac Mini though.
• LooseMarmoset 2y ago
  1: I just don't see who these articles are written for. Linux is on the desktop, it's called Steam Deck, and millions are are using it. So, the author is wrong here in the spirit of the question, and the truth of the question. 2: The statement "Linux developers spend very little to no time checking that their code changes don't cause regressions or breakages" cannot be applied to all or possibly most developers. What packages is TFA talking about here? Maybe TFA means "Denuvo developers spend very little time checking that their code changes don't cause rootkits or kernel exploits - in Windows." 3: "Lack of general software" - TFA seems to be arguing that because software is not specifically compiled for Linux, it is therefore not "available", which is laughably false. My entire Steam library works just fine on the Steam Deck and in Debian. In fact, many of those games run on Steam/Proton when they could not be made to run on modern versions of Windows. 4: "Poor file and folder sharing" - I don't think TFA has ever tried Samba in an all-Linux environment, but I will grant that permissions across machines can be tricky. You know, like sharing folders between Windows XP, 7, 10, and 11. 5: "Lack of funding on the desktop" - Listen, I don't think IBM/RedHat are underfunded. I don't prefer Gnome Desktop, but it's perfectly functional, and funding doesn't seem to be an issue there. Maybe we should ask Canonical if they've ever funded desktop work. 6: "Hardware support and compatibility" - Listen, I'm using an HP 1012 laser printer. Microsoft stopped writing drivers for this perfectly usable printer in Windows 8. I'm using a modern GPU (Radeon 6700XT) that has drivers built right into the kernel. I'm using a scanner that was new when Windows 2000 was new, and I can tell you, it won't work in Windows anymore but it will for sure work in Linux. Once again, TFA does not give examples. 7: Ok, I'll give him this one. You can pay for commercial support for Linux if you want it, though! Canonical and Redhat would love to have your money. Summing up, it seems like this guy is just complaining that Linux isn't a commercially-supported O/S, except it is, if you pay for it. Maybe he means "Linux isn't Windows." So, his entire premise is wrong, and trolly. And speaking of trolls, you'll see TFA's name in the ars forum if you search, and I'll give you two guesses what his posts there look like.
  • Klonoar 2y ago
    The Steam Deck is not the desktop and it’s really amazing that this line gets trotted out in defense of desktop Linux every time a criticism gets posted. It’s like saying that FreeBSD is on the desktop just because Sony used it as the base for the PS5. These are specific scenarios with specific hardware optimized for each use case. Desktop Linux encompasses the sheer amount of available PCs and laptops that one might install it on, and there is a miles long list of “just about everything works except $x thing” articles. I otherwise generally agree with your points and think the article itself is more troll-ish than it needs to be.
• mgaunard 2y ago
  Myself I'm in the other camp; I genuinely don't understand how people find things like MacOS or Windows usable as a desktop.
• YaBa 2y ago
  meh... My only issues are: sound/multimedia and inconstant font size/type, other than that, perfect.
  • BirAdam 2y ago
    Pipewire fixed audio issues for me. The font issues and general theming inconsistency remains.
• vitro 2y ago
  My retired parents would disagree, having happily used Linux Mint for years now. Whenever I need to use Windows while teaching in school, I wonder how people put up with a system that is so user-unfriendly, some would even call it hostile. The main difference, I feel, is that with Windows you can tell the system is built with a company's interests in mind, while in Linux this feeling is absent, and instead, you can tell the user is at the center of attention. And even if the system may not be perfect, it constantly evolves for the better. Just this difference ensures I will never go back again, nor will I ever recommend anything else. With Windows, the system is a boss, with linux, you are the boss :)
• gcau 2y ago
  Everyone I know that uses linux for their PC, has constant, daily issues and complaints, and they all use a different distro that they promise is the best. Without even going into any of the other issues, that's enough to keep me away. Even as a nerdy programmer, I don't have the time, energy or any reason to use something that will make my life harder and impact my ability to do what I want to do. I can't see any conceivable path forward where linux becomes an actual viable and mainstream platform for regular PC users. It seems like people mainly use linux for ideological reasons, not because it's better - actually in spite of it being worse. In my personal experience, the vast 99% majority of professional programmers use windows/mac, and I see more than anything people switching to linux just for the novelty of it. Linux users can also be very dismissive "Photoshop? You don't need that. Use LibreGimp, but use X fork as it has essential bugfixes."
  • vitro 2y ago
    Everyone I know is happy with linux and do not complain at all, instead prefer it over other systems. Me, using linux professionally for the last 15 years I'm just so so happy that system like this exists. Maybe I've been lucky but I've never had permanent problems with it with my last four computers, three of them being notebooks, one desktop. Nothing gets in my way, nothing breaks, I'm more productive than I'd ever be in any other system.
• imiric 2y ago
  > Regressions are introduced all the time because Linux developers spend very little to no time checking that their code changes don't cause regressions or breakages outside of the problems they're trying to fix or features they're implementing. Wow. Such sweeping generalizations make me not want to pay attention to anything this article has to say. But let's entertain the possibility that parts of that statement are true. It's practically impossible for "Linux developers"—whatever that means—to ensure that a change they make doesn't break something downstream. Unlike proprietary operating systems, the Linux ecosystem is not maintained by a single company, so it's impossible to know and account for all the environments a piece of software will run in. Distro maintainers work tirelessly to ensure bugs don't make it to users, but it's simply impractical to test every single combination of hardware and software that exists. This is extremely difficult even for proprietary operating systems where development is centralized, let alone for a distributed environment like most software for Linux, and Linux itself, is developed in. When you think about it, it's a miracle of modern software engineering and a testament of the power of collaboration and the free software movement that the Linux ecosystem works as well as it does, and in many areas matches or exceeds the functionality of other operating systems, all the while preserving important user freedoms. GNU/Linux is a stronghold for user-friendly computing among alternatives from companies that want to control how you use your computers, or profit from your data or attention. It's not perfect, but it's one of the few options we have (besides the BSDs, but I wouldn't consider them to be as user-friendly).
  • edoceo 2y ago
    And if the assertion was true, I'd be feeling those regressions at least monthly on my leading edge, unstable (~amd64), Gentoo box, that is my daily driver desktop I use at $DayJob. This box has been stable enough to make money. But not as stable as my backup (also Gentoo) which runs stable and updates weekly. Edit: my biggest source of stability issues are Nvidia drivers mis-matched from kernel. Takes a whole reboot to fix.
    • foobiekr 2y ago
      No coder should ever, ever be shocked that broken code mostly kind of seems to work, especially if you don't notice things like file corruption because you're not looking, or memory corruption that doesn't happen to matter at the moment. A lot of the failures and bad code are in the unexpected path.
• johnea 2y ago
  I have no idea WTF these articles continue to be about. Is this just trolling? I've been using a linux desktop for well over 20 years...
• haunter 2y ago
  Personally I think immutable distros are the future on the desktop for the average user, so yes not for anyone reading and posting here on HN. Fedora Kinoite is excellent for example.
• pr337h4m 2y ago
  The main reason why Linux on the desktop has never gone mainstream is that it is extremely difficult to find a good laptop that comes with Linux preinstalled, where the OEM is responsible for ensuring a seamless experience, as any bugs in WiFi, audio, drivers, peripherals, etc. is the OEM's responsibility, not the consumer's. 99% of computer users will never consider replacing the operating system that came installed on their system, they don't want to risk bricking it or losing data.
  • scarface_74 2y ago
    The other question is why should any normal person want to run Linux as their primary OS except for philosophical reasons? I was forced to use Windows for a year as a developer. I threw WSL2 on it and it was fine. I installed Docker desktop for Windows and it worked fine for Linux. But especially on the Mac, while I have to download updated commands, it is genuinely certified UNIX. On both Macs and Windows I also get mainstream software support and on Macs, I get a laptop that can run 14-20 hours on a battery and runs cool and quiet.
    • em-bee 2y ago
      The other question is why should any normal person want to run Linux as their primary OS except for philosophical reasons? it's free. it's stable. it's easier to use. it doesn't have adds. it uses less resources. it runs on older hardware. it doesn't contain spyware. it doesn't violate my privacy. it includes more powerful features. it offers more alternatives for the GUI. i can trust it because the kernel has been audited. it is way easier to configure to my personal preferences. it allows me to replace or remove any application that i don't like. Mac [...] is genuinely certified UNIX why should any normal person care about that? UNIX is dead. Linux would be a genuinely certified UNIX if anyone would bother to pay for the certification. in fact, at some point someone did: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/293396/is-there-a-linux-distro-thats-unix-certified https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/293396/is-there-a-l...
      • scarface_74 2y ago
• timewizard 2y ago
  > so I'll just say it bluntly: these are all lightweight virtual machines. It's crazy to think that they solve software incompatibility in Linux, they just work around it by making the user allocate and run gobs of binary code, unnecessarily taxing their storage, CPU and RAM. And.. what exactly do you think Windows is doing to achieve this same feat? Isn't "Windows on Windows" _precisely_ what you describe?
• jitl 2y ago
  Rings kind of hollow because a Linux handheld (Steam Deck) is currently the gold standard gaming device.
  • itvision 2y ago
    Is it desktop Linux though? Or it's a gaming handheld? Only why would you call it a desktop OS then?
    • dqv 2y ago
      Because it's a desktop OS installed on a gaming handheld. You're being unnecessarily pedantic. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/KDE_Plasma_5.23_on_Steam_Deck_Desktop_screenshot.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/KDE_Plas... Guess which not-a-desktop OS ships with the Asus ROG Ally X.
      • itvision 2y ago
        1. How many people use Steam Deck or Asus whatever as a desktop OS for running actual productivity applications, doing work, printing and scanning, installing an removing apps, and not just running games curated by Valve? 2. Can you install an average Linux distro on the said two devices and have them work flawlessly? Nope.
        • jitl 2y ago
          All I’m saying is that a position “desktop Linux can’t into games” is very very wrong in 2024. I wouldn’t pick desktop Linux for productivity use because I need a laptop, and Linux doesn’t seem to have figured out power management or reliable sleep-to-suspend yet. Sleep power management is Steam Deck’s biggest weakness - a day asleep it will drain the battery.
          • itvision 2y ago
            > All I’m saying is that a position “desktop Linux can’t into games” is very very wrong in 2024. Ping me when you find a way to play modern online Windows games with a kernel level anticheat. Oh, and people don't care that Linux can play games from 2015. People are interested in AAA titles and something that OTHER people play. Leave obscure indies to yourself. Linux runs (emulates!) Windows games just fine, except when it does so horribly or doesn't do at all. Yeah, great, kudos to Codeweavers (a commercial company) and Valve (a commercial company). The Linux community has done barely anything to make running Windows applications under Linux a reality. So much for Open Source.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• white-flame 2y ago
  Linux is now the best desktop OS. Not necessarily because it got that much better, but because Windows & Mac have gotten that much worse.
  • drpixie 2y ago
    Absolutely - current windows is truly horrible, ads, ads, ads, crash :( If I were designing something to be deliberately distracting, annoying, and confusing, it would look a lot like windows!
• JonChesterfield 2y ago
  The Windows desktop is unusable shite, not the Linux one. OSX also fine. My Linux desktop machine does not crash. It runs whatever I ask of it boringly reliably. So does a laptop. That's been my experience for twenty years now. My shiny new Windows 11 work laptop locks up about twice a day. Reboots if I hold power for long enough to start running again. Gives me no indication what is going wrong. Doesn't even give a blue screen with an error message. Bluetooth usually connects after twenty minute or so of repeat attempts. Accidentally plugging in a dock overrides mic/speaker settings to ones that don't exist in multiple places. Routinely demands reboots to update itself with no observable change in behaviour. The Windows system isn't even stable enough to host virtualbox - that upsets the network connection. Useless.
  • bb88 2y ago
    Where I've had crashes have typically been with closed source drivers, usually nvidia. Often the fix was to change out the video card for one that works.
  • orev 2y ago
    Windows definitely has its problems, but hundreds of millions of people use it daily without these kinds of issues. You’re doing something very, very wrong if that’s truthfully your daily experience.
    • feelamee 2y ago
      > You’re doing something very, very wrong hahha, really fun taking into account quote from article: > You're using the wrong Linux distribution
  • FireBeyond 2y ago
    > Accidentally plugging in a dock overrides mic/speaker settings to ones that don't exist in multiple places. An issue on macOS, too. Plug my MBP into a dock and it assumes that I want the Dock's audio to be the default input and output devices.
• AndyKelley 2y ago
  > Linux is not an operating system It is though. Go ahead and find me any distribution of Linux on which this binary of the Zig compiler does not work: https://ziglang.org/download/0.13.0/zig-linux-x86_64-0.13.0.tar.xz https://ziglang.org/download/0.13.0/zig-linux-x86_64-0.13.0.... You can't, because it's a static executable whose only runtime dependencies are a file system. And if kernel devs would bless us with a stable graphics ABI, then we could do this for games, too. Unfortunately, the way drivers work currently relies on dynamic linking in a way that drags in a dependency on differences in distributions, which is completely unnecessary and maddening. Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq1XqP4-qOo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq1XqP4-qOo P.S. Just bought my wife a steam deck for christmas and she loves it.
  • tuna74 2y ago
    Linux is an OS kernel. Without a lot of other stuff (like Grub) it won't even boot.
    • geon 2y ago
      No one says "gnu/linux".
• raydiak 2y ago
  I don't deny having my own biases, but I feel like I could write an equally multi-pointed article entitled "Why Windows is not ready for the desktop." Linux certainly has its compromises but not any less than the more popular options, depending on your perspective and priorities.
• ryao 2y ago
  > Compare this to Windows 11 64, where the vast majority of software titles released in the last 30 years run almost flawlessly. Modern Linux can still run binaries that were compiled in the 90s. You just need copies of the libraries that they use. If it is that old, you probably want to dump all of the libraries into a directory somewhere and set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to it, since you are likely not getting the older versions from your distribution repository and that is okay. Needing to run old binaries is the exception rather than the norm. Keeping legacy libaries around that are not used by modern software just in case someone will try to run a binary from the 90s is a reason why Windows is so bloated. > QA/QC, bugs and regressions Here is one of many examples that show Windows is not a bug/regression free experience: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2020/02/15/microsoft-acknowledges-serious-windows-10-update-bug-that-removes-your-files-and-profile/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2020/02/15/micro... > Lack of general software and games There is a huge amount of software for Linux systems. If you want to talk about games, which is evidently what you mean by software, you can even run most Windows games on Linux: https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/ > Poor file and folder sharing situation on the local network > Linux doesn't offer a native technology similar to Windows file sharing that is easily configurable, discoverable, encrypted and password protected. What does exist in Linux, Samba, is quite painful to set up shared folders, even more so in distros that use SeLinux (advanced security mechanism), create users, assign and change passwords, and not worry about folder permissions. There are NFS, SSHFS and others. While I do not use either NFS or Samba, it is fairly simple to setup samba shares or NFS shares with ZFS. > Lack of funding > Countless software tiles in Linux have a huge number of bugs and missing features. That's because Linux is severely underfunded on the desktop. While Linux is unrivaled on servers and has been the world's most popular operating system for over two decades, the situation on the desktop is quite bleak. I thought you said "Linux is not an operating system". In any case, if you want more funding going to desktop use cases, use MacOS. That said, the Linux desktop has been a fairly good experience for a number of years. > Especially when it comes to brand new hardware, you may find that your laptop's Wi-Fi network card, webcam, sound, and even keyboard do not work. I can believe most of those, but not the keyboard outside of truly exceptional situations that are not worth mentioning. As for the rest, issues with hardware compatibility have been rather rare for some time. When I used Windows, you needed to fetch drivers from hardware manufacturers for everything. Off the top of my head: * I needed a SATA driver since SATA was made after Windows XP. * I needed a NIC driver since my NIC was made after Windows XP. * I needed a graphics driver since my graphics card was made after Windows XP. Things became better with Windows 7, only to gradually become worse overtime as newer things came out that postdated Windows 7. Having nearly all of the drivers in one place is awesome. Even if you need to update the kernel, this is generally fine, since newer kernels are backward compatible. That said, most hardware is supported by Linux these days. It is a very different situation than it was in the 90s. > You will have problems with Linux, I can promise you that. I can promise that you will have problems with any non-trivial OS. You just learn to handle them over time. Then when you try something new, you will complain about every new problem you face as if there were not any problems in your old OS.
• mikkom 2y ago
  What a silly thing to read for someone who has been using linux as the only desktop OS for last 10 (or is it 20 already?) years.
• devops99 2y ago
  This website is for hackers, not "geek squad". I am very disappointed that something of such low quality could manage to be linked on one of the first few pages of this site.
  • Klonoar 2y ago
    You are commenting on a site that effectively represents the VC-centric startup world, not the /.-esque hacker world of yesterday. That it uses the term “hacker” in its name doesn’t make it Linux-central.
    • devops99 2y ago
      I agree with you 100% and yes I left that part out. So yeah: NOT GEEK SQUAD
  • itvision 2y ago
    You mean a page without 30MB of JavaScript dependencies, 50MB of images, 10MB of fonts and not sucking all your private data is "low quality". Yeah, you're absolutely right, I'm going for quality content, not shiny crap.
    • devops99 2y ago
      The content is total garbage, which is where the problem ultimately lies.
      • itvision 2y ago
        The garbage is a result of me using Linux for almost 30 years and also being an active Linux maintainer. I can vouch for every word in the article except maybe the last section but this discussion alone speaks for itself, so even that part is not totally wrong. Here in this discussion we've got all the falsehoods that I've heard a billion times already: * It works for me it must work for everyone else (never mind other people have different hardware and use different software) * I've not had any issues it's all made up (the same) * I can show this, that and that exception (yeah, exceptions normally prove the rule). Have fun with a no-os. I mean your specific distro version with a specific set of libraries and applications that you're using today that is not compatible with anything else under the sun.
• tkubacki 2y ago
  This article could be titled what’s wrong with Linux desktop - but current title is plain stupid. Plenty of people are using it as main OS mainly because all other alternatives have either privacy issues or some dumb gold cage limitations and privacy issues. I don’t think author is dumb - it’s catchy title due to hubris issues.
• lizknope 2y ago
  I've been running Linux on my desktop since 1994. I've never actually run Windows (or DOS) as my main computer. From the first time I saw commercial Unix in 1991 I knew that was what I wanted. I have about 15 computers running Linux. The author mentions non technical people and I will happily say that I'm a computer engineer designing semiconductors. Linux may not be the right OS for billions of people out there but it works perfectly fine as a desktop for a few million.
• reissbaker 2y ago
  > Complains about running programs in containers because they're "lightweight VMs" > Says you should run Linux programs via WSL Okay
• remir 2y ago
  The reality is most people are well served by either Windows and/or macOS. Both platforms have received billions of dollars in developpment by MS and Apple over the years and both have an extremely rich and mature app ecosystems. For most people, there's no real need or desire to use anything else. That's it. It's not an issue of drivers, games or app compatibility. If there were serious demand for Linux on the desktop, there would be good money to be made there and these issues would get fixed pronto.
• ChrisArchitect 2y ago
  Some discussions on previous iterations: 2022: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33951719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33951719 2021: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28960330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28960330 2020: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23368115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23368115 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19241394 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19241394 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10812214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10812214
  • itvision 2y ago
    The article has been rewritten from scratch and made a lot shorter and accessible for the non-techies.
• jrm4 2y ago
  "Linux is not ready for the desktop" -- from a usability or technology point of view -- is an idea with zero fundamental merit and it's rather brain-rotty to look at what Linux can do on a desktop through this particular lens. There are already many Linux "desktops." A question with merit would be: How can we collectively best bring the advantages of Linux to broader audiences.
• wrasee 2y ago
  I'm a big linux fan. Use it every day. I even use linux on the desktop to develop Windows software that isn't even distributed on linux. But am I really that alone in recognizing a lot of truth in this article? It's sad to see so much hostility within some of the other comments, even here on HN, quickly coming to linux's defence rather than having at lest some degree of reflection and acceptance towards what are almost undeniably the very common experiences of many linux users. It somewhat proves point 7 that while not exactly to the letter of the examples given, support the point that until there is wider acceptance of the problem we are far far from a solution. It's possible to think very positively of linux yet still recognize so many of the challenges that make linux hard to use on the desktop. This very day I can't suspend/resume my desktop because the kernel crashes on resume, a pretty basic feature of a computer in 2024. I put up with it, because Linux is still a great choice for a technically-minded user. But there are other software orgs out there that simply wouldn't tolerate this level of lived experience of any end user. But linux does, and we are where we are.
  • actuallyalys 2y ago
    There’s truth in broad strokes (e.g., the lack of a stable ABI is a genuine problem) that I wish people would acknowledge. I think your attitude is a healthy one! However, I don’t think this article is written very charitably. It seems unfair to Linux developers to suggest that they spend “very little to no time” testing their changes for regressions, for example. And while AppImage, snaps, and flatpacks are imperfect, I’m not sure they deserve to be dismissed as just “virtual lightweight machines.” (I’m not sure how accurate that even is for AppImage.) Linux users can be defensive or even toxic about their operating system so I hardly blame the author for being impatient or frustrated. Still, I don’t blame people for being frustrated in turn at that tone.
    • gary_0 2y ago
      > I don’t think this article is written very charitably It definitely isn't, but honestly Linux could use more of a drill-sergeant treatment. It's either that or we keep doting on our little pet OS and give up on the idea of desktop Linux being at all a viable competitor to the goliaths of Microsoft and Apple. Maybe we never stood a chance? Keep in mind, I'm pretty much committed to Linux myself, as I'm not willing to compromise with Microsoft and Apple's user-disrespecting, locked-down, enshittified software. But I have no illusions about the inconveniences and sacrifices of that decision.
• dismalaf 2y ago
  Here's how you have a good experience: Use one of the following: - Fedora - Fedora Silverblue - Ubuntu - openSuse Aeon or Micro Leap Next, don't modify anything. Use the DE it comes with, never open the terminal, treat it like it's MacOS or Windows and you're your grandma. Then you'll have a good, solid desktop. The problem people have is using hobbyist distros like Mint, some flavour of Arch that's just a buggier Arch, some terrible DE that's riddled with bugs, or using distros that I'd only recommend to actual developers, like Debian or (real) Arch. Or they modify shit because they saw it on some YouTube or blog. Then they break things and don't know how to unbreak them. Lots of distros are poorly funded and buggy. That's a thing. But the big, corporate money distros are ultra stable, especially in their default configuration. Also the thing about games, just look at the Steam deck catalogue... That's not an excuse anymore in the current year.
  • zahlman 2y ago
    Mint being a "hobbyist" distro that provides a worse experience for regular users than Ubuntu is definitely a bespoke take. Nothing against my upstream as a Mint user, but the entire point of this distro is to get the "life's too short to configure stuff" things out of the way. I do do my fair share of "hobbyist" Linux config stuff, but it's stuff I could do on any distro. > Or they modify shit because they saw it on some YouTube or blog. The Youtube content about modifying Linux is overwhelmingly how-tos rather than advocacy. People are watching those videos and following those steps because they already wanted to make the modification.
    • dismalaf 2y ago
      Mint is Ubuntu + extra bugs and a less modern experience.
  • RajT88 2y ago
    Now - I'm not super deep in Linux. I get to tinkering with it every few years since College. Early on, you had a lot of weird config stuff and cryptic error messages you had to figure out to get it up and running normally. Then it was OK until something weird happened. The chances of something weird happening go wayyy up if you don't heed your advice: > Next, don't modify anything. Use the DE it comes with, never open the terminal, treat it like it's MacOS or Windows and you're your grandma. Then you'll have a good, solid desktop. But even so - occasionally, weird stuff will happen. Just like it happens on any OS over time, the farther you get from a clean install. Software Entropy, if you will. May god have mercy on your layman's soul if that is the case.
• misanthr0pe 2y ago
  some people like Harleys because they feel cool and they feel like Brando and they don't mind taking their bike to a mechanic when it breaks down. some people like BMWs because they are well engineered and relatively easy to fix if you don't mind reading a manual and getting your hands dirty. neither is better or worse. it's just taste.
• Koshkin 2y ago
  How is it that Linux is ready for huge swaths of industrial applications and yet it somehow isn’t ready for the desktop? Personally, I have been enjoying “Linux on the desktop” for years now, and I find the distribution that I use exceedingly user-friendly (in its default configuration anyway); hell, it’s less confusing and annoying than Windows (not sure about how it compares with the recent versions of MacOS, an older one drove me crazy enough I wiped it out and installed Linux in its place); not to say anything about the trustworthiness…
• LeFantome 2y ago
  I have only read section “1” but I already have more than one reply worth of thoughts…. Windows software from yesteryear frequently requires an installer that will not run on modern Windows. 16 bit installers are very common. So, the situation is not quite as rosy as reported. My main complaint though is calling Flatpaks “light-weigh VMs”. If you are technical, you know what he means. If you are not, this leaves a totally wrong impression. Flatpak emulates no hardware. So there are zero “virtual machines”, light-weight or otherwise. Flatpaks run in a sandbox but mostly that is just a feature of the Linux kernel. Flatpak apps run directly on the host kernel just like any other app. It is totally true that Flatpaks “waste” lots of space because the way they provide portability is to bundle all the libraries that the app may need. If we are going to complain about Flatpaks though, let’s be honest about how older Windows apps work on modern Windows. They do it by bundling all the libraries that the app will need. If you try to run ReactOS, you will learn that often you need to install old versions of the C and C++ standard libraries ( along with other things ). It is true that Windows includes much of this “out-of-the-box” for compatibility. And guess what, you pay the storage space for that on Windows. There is a reason that Windows is 30 GB freshly installed. Linux does not make you pay that tax. Instead, you have to install that stuff the first time you install a Flatpak. If you install a second Flatpak requiring the same libs, they share the space—just like in Windows. So let’s not dump on Flatpak for wasting space just because it waits until you need it to install all these support libraries. I do not want my Linux distro to require 30 GB minimum drive space just in case I install Space Cadet Pinball. Do I like Flatpaks? No actually. I use a distro with a huge repo largely to avoid them. Do I think Linux backwards compatibility could be better? Yes, actually. But please, let’s at least be honest and accurate when we talk about these things.
• LeFantome 2y ago
  Linux has a stable API for gaming now and there are many AAA games available that target it. It is the Win32 API and DirectX. There is even kernel level support for some of it now.
  • itvision 2y ago
    > It is the Win32 API and DirectX. Linux is great at emulating something. Yeah. Mind the word "native" though.
• zahlman 2y ago
  > Countless software tiles in Linux have a huge number of bugs and missing features. That's because Linux is severely underfunded on the desktop. While Linux is unrivaled on servers and has been the world's most popular operating system for over two decades, the situation on the desktop is quite bleak. Applications for Linux are underfunded. Linux itself is one of the few open-source projects that attracts enough money that a significant number of people could in principle actually be employed and properly paid. (Although a huge percentage of Linux Foundation money is going to things that... are not the kernel.) Funding Linux more isn't going to fix those software titles, because they're developed independently. Even desktop managers etc. aren't the Linux Foundation's responsibility. It's not like imagining a world where Edge is developed by a separate company that isn't Microsoft; imagine if Windows Explorer were separate from Windows proper.
• FireSquid2006 2y ago
  Linux won't be popular on the desktop because normal people don't change the operating system on their computer. They either dont know how (because they dont need to) or dont care because everything works fine. I think Chromebooks will continue to get larger market share, as plenty of people just need a web browser, but that's about it.
• kennu 2y ago
  For me, 2024 was the year I finally got completely rid of Windows and switched fully to Ubuntu on all computers. I had kept Windows for playing Steam games, but I realized Proton will play them just fine on Linux when you enable it in the Steam compatibility settings. It feels really good to get rid of WSL, Docker in VM and other hacks that kind of make Windows work for development, but always cause various issues. Developing natively on Linux just lets you forget all those hacks. One thing I also did was switch from NVIDIA RTX to Radeon RX. I haven't had to worry about GPU drivers and settings and heat issues in Linux after that.
• tiahura 2y ago
  It doesn’t run Word, Excel, or Outlook. No, web / ooffice isn’t good enough.
• insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Points 4 (file sharing) and 6 (hw compat), and part of point 1 (package distribution), are valid critiques. The rest, not so much. The main reason Linux hasn't proliferated on the desktop is that businesses don't use it on the desktop and that's because they prefer to pay for a license so they get support if something goes wrong, and because Windows has always dominated business software (much of which isn't even available on other platforms). The second reason is because Mac blows most everything else away when it comes to laptops; it's almost rare these days to come across someone that doesn't have a Mac as their laptop (unless it's a work-issued laptop in which case it's a Dell or something like that, or they want a budget laptop). Linux is not likely to be mainstream for the desktop because there's not really a business model that drives it like there is for Windows and Mac. And that's fine. I use Linux as my daily driver for work (by choice), though for my personal laptop I have a Mac.
• ritcgab 2y ago
  The security of desktop Linux is just not there. Flatpak is a thing, but most users won't bother and they run all their desktop apps using the same uid and zero auditing or sandboxing. There is just no easy-to-use solutions, and none of existing mechanisms are default out-of-the-box. One may argue that running an application means you have to trust the developer/distributor/etc. But no, I don't trust a single binary because I don't and won't have a full knowledge of what it's doing.
• pxoe 2y ago
  It could use taking a real good look at the "user journey". How would one even get to having linux on their desktop? It seems like it still overlooks some basic stuff. Like, having a website that's straightforward and doesn't bury how to get a distro. Instructions that'd be written with clarity and wouldn't just drag on for dozens of steps (and even if they do, that's just the stuff that should be written smarter, not in a way that'll just overwhelm someone and just make them check out). Granted, even just putting install media together in the first place might be enough to make some people check out already, but still. There are things like fedora's media writer, which is good, but even that is kinda needlessly buried under several clicks, because their website just isn't regular user oriented, I guess (which is a real common thread) - there's server and enterprise stuff, which is just a distraction and would be irrelevant to such user, so why is it even there, or why isn't there a "consumer" fedora website...and it's just stuff like this. Take a look at ubuntu's website, and you'll see a similar (but also worse) situation. Just literally, where would a regular person even start there? They'll see all this enterprise stuff and just leave. Debian, there's a huge download button - great! that just downloads an image and uhhh...what one is supposed to do with it? there's bizarrely not even an 'installation instructions' link next to it on that page. there's a "help" link, but it doesn't lead to installation instructions, which are actually under 'other downloads' link, and buried under several overcomplicated pages, with the manual itself being so overly long it'll make anyone give up on using it, simply because it has a poorly usable interface. It falls apart before someone would even get on, cause there kind of isn't a solid path for them. Like, back to basics. How about making stuff easier to get, really basic stuff like unburying download links and making stuff easier to understand...well, that is, if those distros and companies are even interested in 'consumer linux' anymore, which barely seems that way sometimes. Maybe a user friendly way isn't to just throw an iso file at someone (if they'll even find it) and have them go figure. Maybe that's exactly why linux user base is not growing substantially. Also, just try to not even tell people to use terminal. Like, don't even start with 'you can apt get anything'. They won't. Just say 'get apps from an app store'. That's actually user friendly, and it already just exists in distros. As a further challenge, one might wanna consider any time a user has to use terminal and/or blindly copy some commands they don't actually understand in order to do or fix something, a usability failure. (cause it is.)
• whatever1 2y ago
  None of these are deal breakers. In my experience, users are spooked by 2 things: 1) Lackluster hardware support (not entirely Linux’s fault, but the distros could have a qualified vendor list, for example) 2) Incomplete UI for the OS. Not a single time in the past 20 years did I set up a Linux desktop without the need to spawn a terminal. This is completely unacceptable and user-hostile. None of the other platforms (even Android) require this.
  • skydhash 2y ago
    The CLI is the only true UI ;) When I think about all of what I do in the CLI and what would be needed to have a GUI, even a basic beginner version, I'm not surprised no one is doing it. I believe that computers are like cars and should be treated as such. Driving one is easy, but any maintenance requires being knowledgable into how it works. If you don't have an IT dept, go grab a book and learn how to use the computer.
• unsungNovelty 2y ago
  I think Linux is not ready for desktop the way Windows is. That's for sure. But I have been daily driving it for 10+ years and recently casual gaming as well. And I can tell you that it can handle a lot of things these days. Especially for general casual users and certain specific niches. If people are still asking "Which distro should I use?", I wrote a Linux distro recommendation framework article for beginners based on my experience. The idea is that if you don't like my recommendations, I hope you can find a distro that meets your needs with the knownledge in the article. Something that I wished I had when I started with Linux. https://www.unsungnovelty.org/posts/01/2024/a-linux-distro-recommendation-framework-and-my-picks-for-2024/ https://www.unsungnovelty.org/posts/01/2024/a-linux-distro-r...
• kjellsbells 2y ago
  Is there even a Linux community that could express what it wanted from desktop linux in unified, actionable message? I rather doubt it. I mean, the fact that GNOME and KDE still exist as separate entities after 20+ years seems evidence enough. Some people seem to want a deep-pocketed daddy to come and fix it, but even if such an entity existed, I fail to see how they would achieve any return on their investment. And the community is so fractious/holds such high standards (take your pick) that whatever they do is sure to be criticized from the first byte to the last. It's a rare PM who would relish that fight inside the executive suite and out on the mean streets of the mailing lists. Other entities? Eh, not so confident. Bodies like the Linux Foundation feel like places where projects go to die (corporations pay a small tax to get a Gold badge, dump some deadweight code, take some tax relief, and burnish a resume). Not seeing any mileage here. Smaller UI shops like Zorin and PopOS? Doing the Lord's work cleaning and polishing, but in the absence of a clean and stable set of interfaces, it's all very fragile. HW vendors have no incentive to care since desktop linux is a tiny market. (I find the requirement that desktop linux must work on anything mystifying because there are probably only 5 pc makers that really matter in terms of volume and anyone else can wait and see before committing.) If you are dell, all you really care about is linux on poweredge, and if some weird state government insists on linux to you, well, fine, youll freeze the BOM on a few rounds of Dell Latitude, charge extra, and it'll be fine. It would be a delicious irony if the best Linux desktop environment ends up being WSL2 after all these years.
• deleted 2y ago
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• eigenblake 2y ago
  I'm surprised no one has mentioned atomic Linux distros yet in this thread. The really hard thing here is that people aren't all talking about the same things. My experience on Arch isn't my experience on Pop. Things on Pop are amazing on my MSI rebuilt PC with Nvidia GPU. I don't even know if I really need to upgrade to NixOS except to satiate my curiosity.
• panny 2y ago
  Daily reminder, ChromeOS is a Gentoo fork.
• butz 2y ago
  Your mileage may vary, but given the choice between other desktop operating systems and their gradual decline from simply unfriendly to practically unusable, Linux is the least frustrating option. Computers with Windows pre-installed have hurdles from step one, where they are pushing you to create online account and even that flow is not straightforward.
• thefz 2y ago
  > The vast majority of applications exist only for Windows, and speaking of games, Linux hasn't seen any AAA titles for many years now Eh? Linux is a great alternative for gaming in 2024, with more and more titles released natively.
• nbittich 2y ago
  Using Linux as my main os since 2017, I'm neither a gamer nor a total nerd/linux fanboy. Using my laptop as any casuals (except for dev). Although I do have issues sometimes with it, it's most of the time because I'm trying to do something super specific for my job, and it requires technical knowledges. Otherwise, the way normal people uses a PC nowadays is 1) start the pc, 2) open the browser .
• senectus1 2y ago
  Is it just me or is at least half of his points made in bad faith? You can very easily find the same faults being decried in that post for windows.
• theblackarrow 2y ago
  > Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition Duh, because you don't need desktop, you need WM
• deleted 2y ago
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• gorjusborg 2y ago
  I find it hard to understand why someone would take the time and effort to write something like this. I can assure you 'linux' works just fine on the desktop (something I have done for a couple decades), and while there is some truth to the security and funding challenges, I find taking the article seriously difficult given the current alternatives. Both Microsoft and Apple are openly trying to force you into their vision of computing, which is pedicated on their control and profit. I have machines that run Windows and MacOS, but those both get worse every year, while Debian (and other distros) get slightly better. I can run many AAA games on Proton, have access to the best development tools available, and am granted choice everywhere. I can't even log in with a local only account on the latest version of Windows, and MacOS makes it harder and harder to install my own software (unless I pay them a tax, via a yearly dev account payment. Linux is closer to the way forward, we just aren't there yet.
• ppetty 2y ago
  Are Dell’s like this encompassed by that article? https://www.dell.com/en-us/search/linux https://www.dell.com/en-us/search/linux … What about System76? It seems like the article makes blanket statements that might apply if you’re building your own desktop and expecting tons of software to work … for free. Would it be right to use the above devices with no additional installs as a benchmark? And then just compare ongoing updates & upgrades to macOS & Windows. It seems like all modern OSes ship with the core apps you really need. Yes, if they do that you might have some bloat; and need or want to uninstall. But maybe the best OS is as opinionated as the author…
• seba_dos1 2y ago
  ...and yet it's been ready for my desktops and laptops for the last two decades already.
• helij 2y ago
  As always, it depends, right? I'm perfectly happy with Linux and use it both for personal tasks and work. Office is in the cloud these days so that's covered. Our designers still use Windows or MacOS though.
• tuna74 2y ago
  Linux is "just" an OS kernel. A relevant discussion would be if an OS built on Linux such as Fedora workstation, Ubuntu desktop, RHEL or even ChromeOS is ready for general desktop use. But that would be more work because you would actually have to test and evaluate different features and eco-system support.
• aayala 2y ago
  Been using Linux as my primary desktop for more than 10 years
• 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
  If Linux was "ready for the desktop" I probably would not use it. Metaphors like "files" are OK. But I have never liked the "desktop" metaphor.
• lousken 2y ago
  There's one answer that I would give that's not present on the list - Linux is free, so you don't get to complain if there's something not working properly. You did not pay for it. With windows, that's a completely different story and yet you can't even complain, my tickets to Microsoft were resolved in ~2% of cases.
• hulitu 2y ago
  > the core issue is that [Software] is in a constant state of flux. Regressions are introduced all the time because [Software] developers spend very little to no time checking that their code changes don't cause regressions or breakages outside of the problems they're trying to fix or features they're implementing There, i fixed it for you. This is not specific to Linux. See Microsoft, Mozilla, Google. Linux desktop is fine since the first release of XFree86 for it. Quality of software has decreased.