15 ms·

Carlsen quits World Rapid and Blitz championship after dress code disagreement

345 points by throwup238 2y ago

CarlitosHighway 2y ago
I like this as a European person. And because Americans are screeching about it.
deleted 2y ago
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gapan 2y ago
Oh, Douglas Adams would have had a blast with this. Carslen: "But you can't disqualify me! This is outrageous! I've been planning for this tournament for months, and now you're telling me I can't play because of my pants?" FIDE: "I'm afraid the rules are quite clear, dear fellow. Proper dress code is required, and jeans simply won't do. You should have read the fine print." Carslen: "Fine print? What fine print? This is a travesty! A complete and utter waste of my time. Do you have any idea how much effort I've put into preparing for this tournament?" FIDE: "I understand your frustration, but rules are rules. Now, if you'll just step aside, we have a schedule to keep. The tournament must go on without you." Carslen: "Without me? But I'm the best player here! You can't just kick me out like this. It's not fair!" FIDE: "Life's not fair, my friend. Now, if you'll excuse us, we have some important work to do. Good day to you." Carslen: "But wait! You can't just leave me here. What am I supposed to do now?" FIDE: "That's not my problem. Perhaps you could try your hand at some other hobby. Knitting, perhaps? Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a tournament to run." Carslen: "You know what? Forget it. I'm withdrawing from this tournament. And you know what else? I'm going to take my jeans and start my own chess tournament. With blackjack. And hookers. Actually, forget the chess tournament. I'm just going to start a jeans-only nightclub. That'll show you!" FIDE: "What? You can't do that! You've already been disqualified for the dress code violation." Carslen: "Oh, I can do it. And I'm going to do it. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some plans to make. Toodle-oo!"
alfiedotwtf 2y ago
Imagine chess tournaments just being about playing chess rather than pompous formalities that have zilch to do with chess.
sambeau 2y ago
Here in the U.K., where so many of these stupid rules and customs originate, dress codes have always been a way to exclude the ‘wrong sort’. Which, is usually working class and poor people.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Everyone is arguing about 'jean's not being a big deal. And, all dress codes are wrong. So, can a female player wear a bikini? By the arguments here, then yes, that should be allowed. Would it interfere with game play? I think yes. Can a man wear a bright orange Sarang with blinking lights? How do you draw the line? Doesn't there need to be a line somewhere so there isn't chaos? It's just that todays generation now thinks 'jeans' are ok. 20 years ago they were not.
codehotter 2y ago
Some context. The dress code and rules for enforcement are created by the players' representatives commission in FIDE, consisting of active and former competitive players [1] [2]. In a presentation shared with the players about the dress code before the event, jeans are listed on a slide titled "What's NOT allowed?" with "Not Approved" stamped in big red letters over a picture of jeans [3]. FIDE CEO says jeans have been banned in this event since 2018, and that players were asked for feedback on the dress code before the event, and none complained [4]. The same dress code presentation shared with players also has instructions for the Chief Arbiter: The dress code is strictly enforced to maintain a consistent level of professionalism and respect for the event. The Chief Arbiter, in consultation with the FIDE Athletes Commission, will ensure that the dress code is upheld. First Infringement A financial penalty of 200 € for open events and 100 € for women's events. The player is allowed to play the current round. Further Infringements Exclusion from the pairings for the next round. Each round counts as one infringement. Other top players were also asked to change their attire when found in violation. The hotel is a few minutes away [5]. Magnus Carlsen was notified of his violation after his second game on day 2 (round 7) and asked to change into approved attire before the third round of the day (round 8), played half an hour later [6]. Since he declined, he was excluded from playing in the last round of the day (round 9). This counts as a forfeit, and combined with Magnus' score until that point would make a podium finish unlikely, although he would still have been allowed to play in subsequent rounds [7]. In an interview, Magnus stated he was not having the best tournament, explained he had already lost his patience with FIDE due to an ongoing feud over the freestyle chess championship, and stated he declined to change into approved attire as a matter of principle and would withdraw from the rapid tournament and also the upcoming fide blitz tournament, apologizing to fans at home [8]. [1] https://doc.fide.com/docs/90%20Congress%20Agenda%20and%20Annexes/Annex%208.4.pdf https://doc.fide.com/docs/90%20Congress%20Agenda%20and%20Ann... [2] https://www.fide.com/directory/commissions https://www.fide.com/directory/commissions (GM Ahmed Adly, GM Eugenio Torre, IM Dinara Saduakassova, WIM Jesse Nikki February, GM Irina Krush, GM Wei Yi, IM Alina Kashlinskaya, IM Oluwafemi Daniel Balogun, IM Noaman Omar, GM Ioan-Cristian Chirila, IM Irine Kharisma Sukandar, GM Ivan Cheparinov, GM Evgeny Tomashevsky, WGM Aleksandra Dimitrijevic) [3] https://doc.fide.com/docs/2024_WRBC/wrbc2024_dress_code.pdf https://doc.fide.com/docs/2024_WRBC/wrbc2024_dress_code.pdf [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWi5CIKhuSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWi5CIKhuSs [ Magnus Carlsen Jeans Scandal | Full Story ] from 15m00s [5] https://www.fide.com/news/3363 https://www.fide.com/news/3363 [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrK88j-fyaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrK88j-fyaw [ FIDE World Rapid Championship 2024 | Rds 6-9 ], Magnus' round 7 game finishes around 2h24m30s, round 8 2h59m50s [7] https://www.facebook.com/chess/videos/-magnus-carlsen-is-unpaired-for-round-9-after-refusing-to-change-out-of-his-jean/2323940627969882/ https://www.facebook.com/chess/videos/-magnus-carlsen-is-unp... [8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWi5CIKhuSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWi5CIKhuSs [ Magnus Carlsen Jeans Scandal | Full Story ] from 3m28s
dang 2y ago
We belatedly changed the title and URL to what appears to be a more accurate report. (Submitted URL was https://www.timesnownews.com/sports/magnus-carlsen-disqualified-from-world-rapid-and-blitz-championship-for-wearing-jeans-article-116727852 https://www.timesnownews.com/sports/magnus-carlsen-disqualif....)
patrickany 2y ago
I’d surmise this was about promoting his new freestyle chess thing. A loud silly issue where he can loudly tie back to what could be seen as “archaic” rules for the sake of rules and a federation that is not where the best players play. Seems like it might be the beginning of a few issues for a handful of visible players :)
rurban 2y ago
And, he is allowed to play again. Wonder if the WTT bulges too
hilux 2y ago
I was out for lunch with some friends. Came back, saw this, and thought "OK obviously some Onion copycat. Why is this being posted to Hacker News?". Apparently it's true!??
- pella 2y ago
  > Apparently it's true!?? 1.) "Saturday, 28 Dec 2024 00:33 FIDE statement regarding Magnus Carlsen’s dress code breach" https://www.fide.com/news/3363 https://www.fide.com/news/3363 2.) "Chess: Carlsen disqualified in New York after refusing to change out of jeans The world No 1 was defaulted from the World Rapid Championship and has also chosen to withdraw from the World Blitz saying ‘it became a matter of principle’" https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/dec/27/chess-carlsen-targets-rapid-and-blitz-gold-on-wall-street-this-weekend https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/dec/27/chess-carlsen-...
  - ogogmad 2y ago
    I think he meant that as a rhetorical question. It's commentary because he thinks it's Onion-worthy.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
pella 2y ago
If chess is a sport, then the mind deserves its own professional chess shoes "Earlier in the day, another participant, Mr. Ian Nepomniachtchi, was also fined for breaching the dress code by wearing sports shoes. However, Mr. Nepomniachtchi complied, changed into approved attire, and continued to play in the tournament," the statement added."
- anticensor 2y ago
  Chess is played with hands not feet, hence chess gloves might be more appropriate.
- daxfohl 2y ago
  Though "Air Magnus" rolls off the tongue better than "Air Nepomniachtchi".
pm2222 2y ago
Technically he withdrew and was not forced out.
- shkkmo 2y ago
  Technically he was disqualified from the rapid event and withdrew from the blitz event.
  - searealist 2y ago
    He was not. He was unmatched from round 10. He could continue to play after that if he corrected his attire.
    - 8note 2y ago
      that is the same thing as a DQ from the event
    - geor9e 2y ago
      So the only possible way for him to be disqualified is if he hung around for the rest of the tournament repeating the same thing over and over again? Sounds like newspeak logic.
- Maxatar 2y ago
  It looks like he was disqualified from one event and then withdrew for the other related event. He said he would change his pants for tomorrow but was told that he had to change before the start of the next game which was scheduled for today. When he indicated that he would not do so he was disqualified, ie. FIDE removed him from the schedule.
deleted 2y ago
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shevis 2y ago
The dress code is pretty outdated and doesn’t add anything of substance. Let the players be comfortable, we just want to see good chess!
- julianeon 2y ago
  Yeah, jeans should qualify as dressy enough for a chess championship in 2024. It's presentable and not insulting. We left the 50's a long time ago.
spoonfeeder006 2y ago
I like watching chess videos of this guy doing online chess. I appreciate his being extremely down to earth and not arrogant by any means. Great vibes
adamtaylor_13 2y ago
This is dumb. But so is golf attire in my opinion. Admittedly I’m not into show for show’s sake.
- molticrystal 2y ago
  I think that is why some people enjoy John Daly in golfing. For those unfamiliar, look up him up on google images. He is known for usually wearing some sweat pants and smoking a cigar in tournament play.
ffitch 2y ago
World Rapid and Blitz Championship downgraded itself to the World Rapid and Blitz Candidates Tournament. Hope sponsors are not too pissed.
- cool_dude85 2y ago
  Maybe the World Blitz Candidates Tournament but Magnus was practically eliminated from contention in Rapid before this.
magicalhippo 2y ago
The submitted article does not mention that Carlsen has a feud[1] with FIDE over Freestyle Chess. Reportedly he was not sure he'd even bother to show up to this event[2]. [1]: https://www.chess.com/blog/Eternal-Pawn/chess-at-the-crossroads-the-fide-freestyle-chess-saga https://www.chess.com/blog/Eternal-Pawn/chess-at-the-crossro... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErKi4NcLlOc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErKi4NcLlOc
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  Not only Magnus was saying he would withdraw if FIDE didn’t approve them also participating in the Freestyle league. Hikaru Nakamura was also saying he’d withdraw if FIDE forced them to choose between leagues. FIDE conceded — and then punished Magnus for his jeans and refused to allow Hikaru to have cameras. It’s hard not to see it as political, given the context and fact FIDE went after multiple top level players.
- searealist 2y ago
  Yep. He was also performing extremely poorly in this tournament.
hilux 2y ago
The dress code calls for "smart business attire." The title sponsor is Google, a well-known tech company. Here's Google CEO Sundar Pichai in GQ: https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/sundar-pichai-google-pixel-watch https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/sundar-picha...
- robotresearcher 2y ago
  And here he is arriving at an event with a dress code. https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/05/04/multimedia/04evening-nl-WH/04evening-nl-WH-articleLarge-v3.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/05/04/multimedia/04even... Another event, another dress code. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfQwahHTS_xRzrDAYzSwS9ncvVN5ZbvjmUjA&s https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfQwah... Edit: removed extraneous arguments. Point here is that Pichai observes event-specific dress codes rather than assuming that Google’s code applies.
  - hilux 2y ago
    What's your point? I'm not suggesting that Sundar ALWAYS wears jeans and NEVER wears suits. I'm saying that it is ACCEPTABLE to wear jeans, even in a professional setting. Jeans are "smart business attire." (If the dress code were "formal," that would be something else. But it isn't.)
    - kevinventullo 2y ago
      I work at Google. I would not describe Google’s dress code as “smart business attire”.
    - robotresearcher 2y ago
      Jeans are not smart business attire. Google’s code is casual, not smart business.
    - searealist 2y ago
      What's your point? If you find a photo of Larry Page in pajamas then you should be able to wear that to any Google event?
pm2222 2y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTD_R8Scbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTD_R8Scbk he chose to withdraw. he's not happy with fide anyway.
benatkin 2y ago
He won't let the man get him down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ZUshzhMtc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ZUshzhMtc
deleted 2y ago
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7e 2y ago
Probably having an off day and intentionally disqualified himself.
foobarian 2y ago
[flagged]
- JadeNB 2y ago
  > I wonder if this guy is slowly going off the deep end like a number of other past chess masters. He's been such a great example for aspiring players for a while now but I can't help but worry. I don't know much else about him, but nothing in this story reads to me like someone going off the deep end. It sounds like someone who picked a perhaps-unfortunate hill to die on, though if you aren't willing to take risks to argue against silly rules when you're at the top of your game then when will you, but not someone losing his faculties.
  - jhghikvhu 2y ago
    Well there are other circumstances too. He didn't defend his classical chess champion title. He likes his alcohol. He hasn't gone off the deep end (past tense). But is it a process currently in progress? Only possible to say in hindsight but does certainly seem possible.
    - devit 2y ago
      Probably just burned out from chess, especially training the whole day for competitions. We are animals and eventually the brain will rebel against extreme repetitive mental effort that is perceived to be at least partially useless (and given he's already been the world champion, it's easy for part of him to think there's no point in training).
- iambateman 2y ago
  He’s fine.
- cool_dude85 2y ago
  He's one of a few extremely high profile players to publicly support (and maybe financially back / have a stake in?) Freestyle Chess, which may or may not be a venture capital-backed attempt to force a schism in the FIDE World Chess Championship.
iambateman 2y ago
It’s a great day for the law-abiding contestants who would never stoop to such sloven. Justice! /s FIDE is lost in the 80’s, and someone else is going to figure out how to make chess an entertainment sport and make a truly enormous amount of money.
nomilk 2y ago
Amusing response from Carlsen: https://x.com/MagnusCarlsen/status/1872819038554148882 https://x.com/MagnusCarlsen/status/1872819038554148882 FYI 'OOTD' == 'outfit of the day'
- Modified3019 2y ago
  I love a new anarchy chess meta
- fuzzythinker 2y ago
  That's decent dress jeans too, not like some baggy, hole-y or sloppy jeans.
  - matsemann 2y ago
    Some other guy interviewed by Norwegian television also came out from the arbiter room, but he didn't get fined. His pants looked like worn jeans, but since it wasn't denim material (only made to look like ugly jeans) it was ok. Highlights how weird the rules are.
  - TacticalCoder 2y ago
    I used to frequent fancy private parties with people who mostly all had money and nobility titles (EU). Unless it was a ball (which I used to go to do) that had a strict dress code, most men had nice cars, nice shoes and... Dress jeans.
- beyondCritics 2y ago
  Tasteful and elegant, but somewhat thought provoking at the same time.
- yesyesyawl 2y ago
  [dead]
kevinventullo 2y ago
I wonder if there is even a single player in the tournament who cares about the dress code. It is hard to imagine anyone who was serious about chess caring about the material a player’s pants are made of. No, I think this falls squarely in the realm of bureaucratic administrators who have nothing better to do than assert their power and maintain the illusion of a connection between talent (great chess players) and the trivial signaling games of the upper class (the style of pants one is wearing).
- tmalsburg2 2y ago
  The only thing that's more ridiculous than an antiquated dress code is an antiquated dress code that's selectively applied to some players and not to others. Other players had to change, so FIDE could hardly make an exception for Carlsen. If Carlsen cares so little about the tournament that he can't even be bothered to change his pants, he should probably not have participated in the first place.
- JellyBeanThief 2y ago
  > I think this falls squarely in the realm of bureaucratic administrators who have nothing better to do than assert their power and maintain the illusion of a connection between talent (great chess players) and the trivial signaling games of the upper class (the style of pants one is wearing). I concur except about the bureaucratic administrators. I think they do this because the upper class will replace them if they don't do the work of asserting the upper class's power.
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    The upper class has been wearing expensive jeans for a very long time.
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    The upper class has been wearing expensive jeans for a very long time. The upper class doesn’t need dress code. They know they are the upper class. Dress codes are for petit bourgeois and the upper middle class who try to pretend but everyone knows they are actually middle class.
geor9e 2y ago
Not paired for round 9, meaning he was following the dress code for the earlier rounds. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Ok Magnus.
ergonaught 2y ago
I was pretty happy he didn’t cave in to this demand. He accepted the fine and agreed to change for the next game day. They were being belligerent.
Brian_K_White 2y ago
A simple question. Why do people watch chess tournaments? A: To see administrators administrate. B: To see chess players play chess. Someone somewhere has lost sight of a most basic fundamental that everything else they may care about rests on.
- linsomniac 2y ago
  C: To see well dressed people play chess.
  - 8note 2y ago
    technically no. theres only a camera feed on magnus, really. everyone is just watching the board. i know i was, for Rosen's games this weekend hikaru was trying to get camera feed of his games to stream, and fide said no
    - linsomniac 2y ago
      Also, technically, I'm watching video feeds of various players, and also seeing camera angles with an audience... :-)
  - Brian_K_White 2y ago
    Might as well add "D: for the coffee in the lobby". It's the same level of true and the same level of relevant.
llm_nerd 2y ago
"At the time of his default, Carlsen had scored 5/8 and was a point and a half behind the leaders, with little chance of retaining his title." EDIT: I find it hilarious that this is downvoted. It's incredibly cogent to the point. If Magnus was leading the event I guarantee he wouldn't have pursued this distraction.
- thatswrong0 2y ago
  I’ve see Magnus come back from behind before. A lot. He’s been fed up with FIDE for a while if you’ve been paying attention. There’s a lot more to this than just his pants.
  - llm_nerd 2y ago
    It's an odds thing. He was unlikely to win. There are some very strong opponents. Could he have won? Sure. But note that he didn't protest the dress code at the beginning of the event. And sure, he's "fed up" with FIDE (in the sense that everyone who thinks they are bigger than a league does). So why did he participate? If he had the purported principles, he should just withdraw from FIDE sanctioned events, no?
    - thatswrong0 2y ago
      He was just like "I'll take the fine now and change pants tomorrow" Changing organizations like FIDE doesn't happen by withdrawing.
OJFord 2y ago
> [Carlsen] it became a point of principle I think if anybody's to be commended for their principle it's probably the organisers? They have their dress code, he violated it, was warned, continued to violate it, and they enforced the rule despite his name.
- llm_nerd 2y ago
  Precisely this. The dress code was not a secret. Once Carlsen had little chance of winning the event he decided to make it about himself with this display. No one should commend this selfish arrogance, and in no universe is it "principle" to exhibit such prima donna behaviour for attention (and to conveniently exit from a likely loss). Magnus is a tremendous chess player. He's also, by all evidence, a massive asshole, and continuously shows boorish behaviour and terrible sportsmanship.
  - carrychains 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - llm_nerd 2y ago
      I assure you, Magnus is quite good at chess. And yes, he is a massive asshole, at least in regards to chess. He is an incredibly sore loser, constantly makes it about himself (at the cost of every other competitor, such as in this case: they can't have beaten him, but instead he had to do this spectacle to give himself an excuse to exit and to asterisk their win). He has done this sort of thing again and again. He has loads and loads of fanboys who will always excuse this behaviour. Who'll say that he has earned the right to be like this. They'll adulate poor sportsmanship like showing up terribly late "like a boss", as if this isn't contemptible behaviour. Eh. And he can. He might be the greatest chess player ever. Doesn't change that he's obnoxious and boorish.
      - threatofrain 2y ago
        The reason why Magnus leaving is a spectacle is because of us and what we want out of our superstars, otherwise he's just another player, and players drop out all the time for any reason and nobody cares. The masses are the ones who elevate him and assume that because he plays a game so well then the spotlight must be on him. Magnus did not seize the spotlight of our attention and he never owned it.
deskr 2y ago
What kind of a savage plays competitive chess in jeans‽
- rf15 2y ago
  I know right? You need a helmet and knee protection at least, it's a rough sport.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    I understand the necessity for the knee pads, as they clearly help with performing under-the-table negotiations. But what function does the helmet serve?
    - miceareacrutch 2y ago
      Ballistic protection in particularly violent captures.
    - deskr 2y ago
      I seem to remember stories back in the day about threatening ashtrays and flipped chessboards. Helmets might not be a bad idea.
    - pmontra 2y ago
      Ensure that no AI can beam moves to players brains. Tinfoil helmets, of course.
    - OJFord 2y ago
      Clearly you haven't seen House!
    - pvaldes 2y ago
      > What function does the helmet serve? Protection from the biggest danger in chess, being hit by flying pieces.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    How about chess boxing?
bmacho 2y ago
There is a random puzzle at the middle of the article as the illustration, and the solution at the bottom of the article.
- fredoralive 2y ago
  This appears to be a weekly chess column in the newspaper, and they all seem to have a chess puzzle in them[1]. I suspect in the paper it would be at the end of the column, with the answer on another page. It's perhaps a bit of an inelegant way to present it on the web version, but that's probably some sort of tradeoff with how the Guardian's website works, and if it's worth adding some sort of special case presentation for the chess column, which probably isn't exactly the most read bit of the site. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/sport/series/leonard-barden-chess https://www.theguardian.com/sport/series/leonard-barden-ches...
david-gpu 2y ago
The context in which this happened matters a lot. There have been tensions between the FIDE organization and top players like Carlsen since the latter have been promoting an alternative chess organization around Freestyle chess (aka Chesss960), which has slightly different rules. I.e. this is less about "dress code enforcement" and it is more about "Carlsen is fed up with the FIDE organization in general".
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  Very late concurring comment: Hikaru mentioned there had been drama between FIDE and himself about having cameras at the same tournament — and he felt FIDE refused to give him airtime on their streams. Hikaru also had drama with FIDE about the Freestyle league. I think both happening at the same tournament, which they had threatened to boycott if FIDE didn’t permit them to also play Freestyle league, indicates this is political.
- SlonBog 2y ago
  Also the context is Magnus wasn’t best at this tournament. He was somewhere in middle in table and had less chances of converting. He has history of throwing tantrums when on tilt (Seinqfield 2022)
  - david-gpu 2y ago
    It is also his first Christmas after his mother's passing, so I think it is fair to say that he's under a lot of stress already. We will see how other players react today. Will they wear jeans in protest?
    - tromp 2y ago
      Why would you protest against enforcement of the rules that everyone was aware of and agreed to by participating? I agree that rules against jeans make limited sense. It makes more sense to forbid worn down or shabby looking attire. But one should abide by the rules one signs up to.
vouaobrasil 2y ago
I think the dress code is stupid. But if he were against it, he should not have attended at all. To attend and make a scene is just about publicity. It touches the superficial thread of rebellion without being respectable or commendable.
- janalsncm 2y ago
  He didn’t yell or cause a scene, he broke the rule, received a punishment and explained his reasoning in an interview afterwards. That is perfectly respectable in my opinion. Part of what makes showing up in jeans way more valuable than not showing up is how normal it seems otherwise. Show, don’t tell, basically. If you didn’t know about the rule it wouldn’t have seemed out of place at all.
- cbg0 2y ago
  On the other hand, this is the most impactful way to change antiquated rules.
  - vouaobrasil 2y ago
    That is true.
- enkid 2y ago
  Seems like publicity is the point. Getting headlines is a lot more likely to change something then just skipping the tournament.
- viraptor 2y ago
  Rules don't get changed due to people quietly saying "I don't like this rule" while staying at home. Public rebellion is what gets the job done. Protests that don't inconvenience anyone are irrelevant.
  - Aachen 2y ago
    Would it have been quiet if the defending champion decides to stay at home and when someone asks him he says it's because of a disagreement about the event's rules? Wouldn't that have gone around and raised the issue/discussion? I'm still undecided who's right here or who should have done what: I'm not for stupid dress codes, but it also seems silly to get hung up over if you can easily comply at no detriment to your performance or anything, so idk, just saying that it does seem like an option to stay home if you disagree when you're someone whose absence would be very conspicuous
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
unsupp0rted 2y ago
Chess is supposed to be a game for smart people. Why would smart people care about denim vs. trousers? Let competitors wear pajamas- it makes no difference.
- CarlitosHighway 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - unsupp0rted 2y ago
    > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- m463 2y ago
  Sounds a little like academics. Smart people living game of thrones...
- booleandilemma 2y ago
  It's a game of concentration, and what you wear could affect people's concentration. Better to just stick to a dress code.
  - jfengel 2y ago
    Man, it would be weird if they showed up covered in patches like a NASCAR driver or pro poker player. I'm usually not one to stand on formality but that does feel kinda gross.
- lm28469 2y ago
  [flagged]
- menotyou 2y ago
  > Why would smart people care about denim vs. trousers? Mostly it's about the sponsors. It's much more difficult to get sponsors for an event if the participants are dressed like they slept in their clothes. That's why organizers try to impose minimal standards on dresscodes. Jeans and sneakers are maybe debatable, but players showed up with cargo pants, shorts or tank tops on other events. In the FIDE regulation for that event jeans were explicitly mentioned as not allowed. FIDE would have made a fool out of themselves when allowing Magnus to wear the jeans.
viraptor 2y ago
Reminds me of Ronnie O'Sullivan offending the snooker association by taking off shoes https://www.espn.co.uk/snooker/story/_/id/12736342/ronnie-osullivan-danger-fine-playing-no-shoes-world-championship-first-round https://www.espn.co.uk/snooker/story/_/id/12736342/ronnie-os... I hope silly enforcement like that dies out.
- propter_hoc 2y ago
  Or similarly, how he was accused of 'bringing the game of snooker into disrepute' by taking a shot with his left hand (and then playing three perfect games left-handed) http://en.espn.co.uk/snooker/sport/player/1241.html http://en.espn.co.uk/snooker/sport/player/1241.html
  - ivanjermakov 2y ago
    Ironically he himself inspired thousands to watch and play snooker, myself included.
dist-epoch 2y ago
There was similar drama exactly a year ago recently about a woman chess player wearing "sport shoes": https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/asia/chess-fine-shoes-kazarian.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/asia/chess-fine-sho...
- boothby 2y ago
  The rules specifically said "dress to impress" and she wore thousand dollar shoes. Ridiculous. Good for Magnus, somebody needs to take a stand and he's got the clout to do so.
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    The rules specifically said "dress to impress" and she wore thousand dollar shoes. Maybe not everyone is impressed by money?
    - tremon 2y ago
      Then the rules should have been more specific?
    - boothby 2y ago
      That's an abuse of quantifiers, and an interesting one. You suggest that the judges become literal fashion police, each individual with the authority to remove a contestant whose clothes are not impressive in their personal opinion. That should indeed be protested against; it's a chess tournament and not a fashion show. The word "to" is commonly interpreted to mean "for the purpose of" in this context. That is, the contestant should put effort into making their appearance impressive. Which, I also find offensive, but to a lesser degree. I'd propose that they certainly aren't "sport" sneakers, which is what she got dinged for. Unless you're a multi-millionaire playing tennis in a country club, I guess -- but the only reason a person would wear those particular shoes in sport would be to impress their peers. And if you're not personally impressed by money, how would you interpret the "dress to impress" guideline? Would you find any shoes to be impressive? Perhaps no shoes at all? I'd lean towards 6" platforms, myself, as some people find tallness impressive.
chirau 2y ago
[flagged]
- threatofrain 2y ago
  There are exemptions to all legal systems in the world, and you're using words like "official petition" and "civil disobedience" for a game.
23B1 2y ago
I love watching institutions cling to silly little rules to the point where it actually hurts them. It's a perfect demonstration of the problems with groupthink.
- roelschroeven 2y ago
  I think it's not so much groupthink, but rather that those institutions feel the need to make themselves look important and essential to the sport, instead of being there to facilitate the sport.
  - 23B1 2y ago
    I would argue that groupthink is an umbrella term for what you describe; another might be 'bureaucracy' when used pejoratively, heh.
ripped_britches 2y ago
[flagged]
- nitinreddy88 2y ago
  Why it shouldn't be? Is there any rule book which defines.
- xenity7 2y ago
  It didn’t violate the dress code…
- Dilettante_ 2y ago
  Sometimes, when a HN user and a news article love each other very much[...]
blagie 2y ago
[flagged]
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  I wonder if people would care as much about chess if it didn't foster an image of sophistication and intellectualism? Imagine if most players just turned up in street clothes and looked more like software developers .. would sponsors and the public be just as interested? Would available prize money be as good?
- reaperducer 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - John23832 2y ago
    I don’t have a dog in this fight, but the mao suit was exactly inspired by western wear. There are more traditional forms or eastern dress.
- motorest 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - blagie 2y ago
    Why? I'm neutral on Western. I'm fine with Western. I'm fine with non-Western. I'm not okay with discriminating against non-Western. My personal preference is for places to use locally-appropriate clothing for the simple, pragmatic reason that e.g. Western suits in Sub-Saharan Africa get too hot. Most local clothing tends to have gotten what it is for a reason. Even Arab clothing -- much criticized in the West for covering too much skin in the heat -- does well in sandy environments and ones where sunburn is an issue, and tends to be loose enough to provide for adequate airflow.
  - mam2 2y ago
    I'm the opposite of woke but he's not wrong that suits are a western thing and and enforcing it as if it's universal is a bit pushy
laserlight 2y ago
You can listen to Magnus's own account, including his acknowledgment of his lower-than-expected performance and tensions with FIDE: Magnus Carlsen Got KICKED OUT Of World Championship (5 min) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTD_R8Scbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTD_R8Scbk
gverrilla 2y ago
[flagged]
- BenjiWiebe 2y ago
  Do they really? I have some black slacks that are 10 year old hand-me-downs from a relative and they look fine. My dress shirt for multiple years was a $5 second hand purchase - and I got more compliments on that shirt than on the ones that I got new.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    Most such things are more about insider cultural knowledge than actual money. Most “upper class” activities and styles can be done cheap or free, but you need to know how.
  - gverrilla 2y ago
    Anectodal.
DonHopkins 2y ago
Imagine what a fuss they would have made if he wasn't wearing pants. You just can't win...
moomin 2y ago
I remember in the late 80s there was a bar called “Lennon’s” in Liverpool. The dress code banned jeans. Pretty sure John Lennon would have despised the place.
causality0 2y ago
This applies equally to everyone is always the rallying cry when a rule applies to everyone while not being equally onerous to everyone. It's like dress codes in schools that are much easier for girls to violate than boys, or office hairstyle bans that seem to only target styles used by black people.
- abduhl 2y ago
  “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
greatgib 2y ago
Something funny related to the topic of this news in my opinion: in the picture selected by the newspaper, the sponsor of the event looks like to be the "Freedom Holding corp"...
rurban 2y ago
Coincidence. The world best table tennis player, Fan Zen-Dong also just resigned, as well as two times world champion Chen Meng, from the sleazy organization called WTT. Which decides on WC and Olympics.
fourseventy 2y ago
This site is cancer on mobile
syngrog66 2y ago
should not be on HN front page. shame on you folks
funyun5 2y ago
[dead]
Nihilartikel 2y ago
Sooooo.. how about venues just be required to provide affordable black unisex chess mumuu's for players as needed? Problem solved?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
NotYourLawyer 2y ago
> Honestly, I’m too old at this point to care too much. If this is what they want to do I” ll probably set off to somewhere where the weather is a bit nicer Based.
bluedino 2y ago
There's a narrative that Magnus doesn't care at all about FIDE as he is on good terms with the Saudis and their funding availability for events etc
- steinvakt2 2y ago
  Yep, this is it. Magnus played poorly, knew jeans were not allowed, made himself get kicked out so that he could spin this as FIDE being unreasonable. It's all about the saudi money. This has been a debate in Norway. Surprised to see so many pro-Magnus comments here on HN. It's all a play.
Fnoord 2y ago
What's the point of this rule?
djaouen 2y ago
What is this, North Korea, where jeans are banned? Lol
kittikitti 2y ago
People take chess too seriously. The only thing being good at chess does is having more wins at chess, nothing else. It's not a sign of intelligence.
gerash 2y ago
Good on him. Stupid rule, stupid enforcement.
malwrar 2y ago
The FIDE dress code [1] appears to only forbid torn jeans, but otherwise explicitly allows them: > The following is acceptable for men players, captains, head of delegation. Suits, ties, dressy pants, trousers, *jeans*. And then later: > The following is NOT acceptable for men players, captains, head of delegation. Beach-wear slips, profanity and nude or semi-nude pictures printed on shirts, torn pants or jeans. Magnus did not wear torn jeans [2], I can’t see any justification for this enforcement choice. Don’t even get me started on the sex differences in these rules. [1]: https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_... [2]: https://x.com/MagnusCarlsen/status/1872819038554148882 https://x.com/MagnusCarlsen/status/1872819038554148882
- _Algernon_ 2y ago
  That appears to be from 2013 which is before the rule change that Carlsen is being hit with was made. AFAIK the change happened only a couple of years later.
  - malwrar 2y ago
    Thanks for catching that! I found a 2024 document [1] that indeed appears to explicitly forbid jeans. [1]: https://doc.fide.com/docs/2024_WRBC/wrbc2024_dress_code.pdf https://doc.fide.com/docs/2024_WRBC/wrbc2024_dress_code.pdf
- courseofaction 2y ago
  If this is interpreted as torn jeans being disallowed, then fide has actually gone against the letter of its own code. That Carlsen will be able to point at this clause could embarrass them greatly, perhaps even legally?
mozzieman 2y ago
penalised by FIDE Council as follows: 5% of his/her prize money shall be forfeited to the Organiser and a further 5% to FIDE for each breach. In cases of serious misconduct, the player may be disqualified from the event. But the penalty he got was forfeit one game, i dont see that in the rules?

345 points by throwup238 2y ago

CarlitosHighway 2y ago

I like this as a European person. And because Americans are screeching about it.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

gapan 2y ago

Oh, Douglas Adams would have had a blast with this. Carslen: "But you can't disqualify me! This is outrageous! I've been planning for this tournament for months, and now you're telling me I can't play because of my pants?" FIDE: "I'm afraid the rules are quite clear, dear fellow. Proper dress code is required, and jeans simply won't do. You should have read the fine print." Carslen: "Fine print? What fine print? This is a travesty! A complete and utter waste of my time. Do you have any idea how much effort I've put into preparing for this tournament?" FIDE: "I understand your frustration, but rules are rules. Now, if you'll just step aside, we have a schedule to keep. The tournament must go on without you." Carslen: "Without me? But I'm the best player here! You can't just kick me out like this. It's not fair!" FIDE: "Life's not fair, my friend. Now, if you'll excuse us, we have some important work to do. Good day to you." Carslen: "But wait! You can't just leave me here. What am I supposed to do now?" FIDE: "That's not my problem. Perhaps you could try your hand at some other hobby. Knitting, perhaps? Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a tournament to run." Carslen: "You know what? Forget it. I'm withdrawing from this tournament. And you know what else? I'm going to take my jeans and start my own chess tournament. With blackjack. And hookers. Actually, forget the chess tournament. I'm just going to start a jeans-only nightclub. That'll show you!" FIDE: "What? You can't do that! You've already been disqualified for the dress code violation." Carslen: "Oh, I can do it. And I'm going to do it. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some plans to make. Toodle-oo!"

alfiedotwtf 2y ago

Imagine chess tournaments just being about playing chess rather than pompous formalities that have zilch to do with chess.

sambeau 2y ago

Here in the U.K., where so many of these stupid rules and customs originate, dress codes have always been a way to exclude the ‘wrong sort’. Which, is usually working class and poor people.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

Everyone is arguing about 'jean's not being a big deal. And, all dress codes are wrong. So, can a female player wear a bikini? By the arguments here, then yes, that should be allowed. Would it interfere with game play? I think yes. Can a man wear a bright orange Sarang with blinking lights? How do you draw the line? Doesn't there need to be a line somewhere so there isn't chaos? It's just that todays generation now thinks 'jeans' are ok. 20 years ago they were not.

codehotter 2y ago

Some context. The dress code and rules for enforcement are created by the players' representatives commission in FIDE, consisting of active and former competitive players [1] [2]. In a presentation shared with the players about the dress code before the event, jeans are listed on a slide titled "What's NOT allowed?" with "Not Approved" stamped in big red letters over a picture of jeans [3]. FIDE CEO says jeans have been banned in this event since 2018, and that players were asked for feedback on the dress code before the event, and none complained [4]. The same dress code presentation shared with players also has instructions for the Chief Arbiter: The dress code is strictly enforced to maintain a consistent level of professionalism and respect for the event. The Chief Arbiter, in consultation with the FIDE Athletes Commission, will ensure that the dress code is upheld. First Infringement A financial penalty of 200 € for open events and 100 € for women's events. The player is allowed to play the current round. Further Infringements Exclusion from the pairings for the next round. Each round counts as one infringement. Other top players were also asked to change their attire when found in violation. The hotel is a few minutes away [5]. Magnus Carlsen was notified of his violation after his second game on day 2 (round 7) and asked to change into approved attire before the third round of the day (round 8), played half an hour later [6]. Since he declined, he was excluded from playing in the last round of the day (round 9). This counts as a forfeit, and combined with Magnus' score until that point would make a podium finish unlikely, although he would still have been allowed to play in subsequent rounds [7]. In an interview, Magnus stated he was not having the best tournament, explained he had already lost his patience with FIDE due to an ongoing feud over the freestyle chess championship, and stated he declined to change into approved attire as a matter of principle and would withdraw from the rapid tournament and also the upcoming fide blitz tournament, apologizing to fans at home [8]. [1] https://doc.fide.com/docs/90%20Congress%20Agenda%20and%20Annexes/Annex%208.4.pdf https://doc.fide.com/docs/90%20Congress%20Agenda%20and%20Ann... [2] https://www.fide.com/directory/commissions https://www.fide.com/directory/commissions (GM Ahmed Adly, GM Eugenio Torre, IM Dinara Saduakassova, WIM Jesse Nikki February, GM Irina Krush, GM Wei Yi, IM Alina Kashlinskaya, IM Oluwafemi Daniel Balogun, IM Noaman Omar, GM Ioan-Cristian Chirila, IM Irine Kharisma Sukandar, GM Ivan Cheparinov, GM Evgeny Tomashevsky, WGM Aleksandra Dimitrijevic) [3] https://doc.fide.com/docs/2024_WRBC/wrbc2024_dress_code.pdf https://doc.fide.com/docs/2024_WRBC/wrbc2024_dress_code.pdf [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWi5CIKhuSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWi5CIKhuSs [ Magnus Carlsen Jeans Scandal | Full Story ] from 15m00s [5] https://www.fide.com/news/3363 https://www.fide.com/news/3363 [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrK88j-fyaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrK88j-fyaw [ FIDE World Rapid Championship 2024 | Rds 6-9 ], Magnus' round 7 game finishes around 2h24m30s, round 8 2h59m50s [7] https://www.facebook.com/chess/videos/-magnus-carlsen-is-unpaired-for-round-9-after-refusing-to-change-out-of-his-jean/2323940627969882/ https://www.facebook.com/chess/videos/-magnus-carlsen-is-unp... [8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWi5CIKhuSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWi5CIKhuSs [ Magnus Carlsen Jeans Scandal | Full Story ] from 3m28s

dang 2y ago

We belatedly changed the title and URL to what appears to be a more accurate report. (Submitted URL was https://www.timesnownews.com/sports/magnus-carlsen-disqualified-from-world-rapid-and-blitz-championship-for-wearing-jeans-article-116727852 https://www.timesnownews.com/sports/magnus-carlsen-disqualif....)

patrickany 2y ago

I’d surmise this was about promoting his new freestyle chess thing. A loud silly issue where he can loudly tie back to what could be seen as “archaic” rules for the sake of rules and a federation that is not where the best players play. Seems like it might be the beginning of a few issues for a handful of visible players :)

rurban 2y ago

And, he is allowed to play again. Wonder if the WTT bulges too

hilux 2y ago

I was out for lunch with some friends. Came back, saw this, and thought "OK obviously some Onion copycat. Why is this being posted to Hacker News?". Apparently it's true!??

pella 2y ago
> Apparently it's true!?? 1.) "Saturday, 28 Dec 2024 00:33 FIDE statement regarding Magnus Carlsen’s dress code breach" https://www.fide.com/news/3363 https://www.fide.com/news/3363 2.) "Chess: Carlsen disqualified in New York after refusing to change out of jeans The world No 1 was defaulted from the World Rapid Championship and has also chosen to withdraw from the World Blitz saying ‘it became a matter of principle’" https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/dec/27/chess-carlsen-targets-rapid-and-blitz-gold-on-wall-street-this-weekend https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/dec/27/chess-carlsen-...
- ogogmad 2y ago
  I think he meant that as a rhetorical question. It's commentary because he thinks it's Onion-worthy.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

pella 2y ago

If chess is a sport, then the mind deserves its own professional chess shoes "Earlier in the day, another participant, Mr. Ian Nepomniachtchi, was also fined for breaching the dress code by wearing sports shoes. However, Mr. Nepomniachtchi complied, changed into approved attire, and continued to play in the tournament," the statement added."

anticensor 2y ago
Chess is played with hands not feet, hence chess gloves might be more appropriate.
daxfohl 2y ago
Though "Air Magnus" rolls off the tongue better than "Air Nepomniachtchi".

pm2222 2y ago

Technically he withdrew and was not forced out.

shkkmo 2y ago
Technically he was disqualified from the rapid event and withdrew from the blitz event.
- searealist 2y ago
  He was not. He was unmatched from round 10. He could continue to play after that if he corrected his attire.
  - 8note 2y ago
    that is the same thing as a DQ from the event
  - geor9e 2y ago
    So the only possible way for him to be disqualified is if he hung around for the rest of the tournament repeating the same thing over and over again? Sounds like newspeak logic.
Maxatar 2y ago
It looks like he was disqualified from one event and then withdrew for the other related event. He said he would change his pants for tomorrow but was told that he had to change before the start of the next game which was scheduled for today. When he indicated that he would not do so he was disqualified, ie. FIDE removed him from the schedule.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

shevis 2y ago

The dress code is pretty outdated and doesn’t add anything of substance. Let the players be comfortable, we just want to see good chess!

julianeon 2y ago
Yeah, jeans should qualify as dressy enough for a chess championship in 2024. It's presentable and not insulting. We left the 50's a long time ago.

spoonfeeder006 2y ago

I like watching chess videos of this guy doing online chess. I appreciate his being extremely down to earth and not arrogant by any means. Great vibes

adamtaylor_13 2y ago

This is dumb. But so is golf attire in my opinion. Admittedly I’m not into show for show’s sake.

molticrystal 2y ago
I think that is why some people enjoy John Daly in golfing. For those unfamiliar, look up him up on google images. He is known for usually wearing some sweat pants and smoking a cigar in tournament play.

ffitch 2y ago

World Rapid and Blitz Championship downgraded itself to the World Rapid and Blitz Candidates Tournament. Hope sponsors are not too pissed.

cool_dude85 2y ago
Maybe the World Blitz Candidates Tournament but Magnus was practically eliminated from contention in Rapid before this.

magicalhippo 2y ago

The submitted article does not mention that Carlsen has a feud[1] with FIDE over Freestyle Chess. Reportedly he was not sure he'd even bother to show up to this event[2]. [1]: https://www.chess.com/blog/Eternal-Pawn/chess-at-the-crossroads-the-fide-freestyle-chess-saga https://www.chess.com/blog/Eternal-Pawn/chess-at-the-crossro... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErKi4NcLlOc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErKi4NcLlOc

zmgsabst 2y ago
Not only Magnus was saying he would withdraw if FIDE didn’t approve them also participating in the Freestyle league. Hikaru Nakamura was also saying he’d withdraw if FIDE forced them to choose between leagues. FIDE conceded — and then punished Magnus for his jeans and refused to allow Hikaru to have cameras. It’s hard not to see it as political, given the context and fact FIDE went after multiple top level players.
searealist 2y ago
Yep. He was also performing extremely poorly in this tournament.

hilux 2y ago

The dress code calls for "smart business attire." The title sponsor is Google, a well-known tech company. Here's Google CEO Sundar Pichai in GQ: https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/sundar-pichai-google-pixel-watch https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/sundar-picha...

robotresearcher 2y ago
And here he is arriving at an event with a dress code. https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/05/04/multimedia/04evening-nl-WH/04evening-nl-WH-articleLarge-v3.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/05/04/multimedia/04even... Another event, another dress code. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfQwahHTS_xRzrDAYzSwS9ncvVN5ZbvjmUjA&s https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfQwah... Edit: removed extraneous arguments. Point here is that Pichai observes event-specific dress codes rather than assuming that Google’s code applies.
- hilux 2y ago
  What's your point? I'm not suggesting that Sundar ALWAYS wears jeans and NEVER wears suits. I'm saying that it is ACCEPTABLE to wear jeans, even in a professional setting. Jeans are "smart business attire." (If the dress code were "formal," that would be something else. But it isn't.)
  - kevinventullo 2y ago
    I work at Google. I would not describe Google’s dress code as “smart business attire”.
  - robotresearcher 2y ago
    Jeans are not smart business attire. Google’s code is casual, not smart business.
  - searealist 2y ago
    What's your point? If you find a photo of Larry Page in pajamas then you should be able to wear that to any Google event?

pm2222 2y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTD_R8Scbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTD_R8Scbk he chose to withdraw. he's not happy with fide anyway.

benatkin 2y ago

He won't let the man get him down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ZUshzhMtc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ZUshzhMtc

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

7e 2y ago

Probably having an off day and intentionally disqualified himself.

foobarian 2y ago

[flagged]

JadeNB 2y ago
> I wonder if this guy is slowly going off the deep end like a number of other past chess masters. He's been such a great example for aspiring players for a while now but I can't help but worry. I don't know much else about him, but nothing in this story reads to me like someone going off the deep end. It sounds like someone who picked a perhaps-unfortunate hill to die on, though if you aren't willing to take risks to argue against silly rules when you're at the top of your game then when will you, but not someone losing his faculties.
- jhghikvhu 2y ago
  Well there are other circumstances too. He didn't defend his classical chess champion title. He likes his alcohol. He hasn't gone off the deep end (past tense). But is it a process currently in progress? Only possible to say in hindsight but does certainly seem possible.
  - devit 2y ago
    Probably just burned out from chess, especially training the whole day for competitions. We are animals and eventually the brain will rebel against extreme repetitive mental effort that is perceived to be at least partially useless (and given he's already been the world champion, it's easy for part of him to think there's no point in training).
iambateman 2y ago
He’s fine.
cool_dude85 2y ago
He's one of a few extremely high profile players to publicly support (and maybe financially back / have a stake in?) Freestyle Chess, which may or may not be a venture capital-backed attempt to force a schism in the FIDE World Chess Championship.

iambateman 2y ago

It’s a great day for the law-abiding contestants who would never stoop to such sloven. Justice! /s FIDE is lost in the 80’s, and someone else is going to figure out how to make chess an entertainment sport and make a truly enormous amount of money.

nomilk 2y ago

Amusing response from Carlsen: https://x.com/MagnusCarlsen/status/1872819038554148882 https://x.com/MagnusCarlsen/status/1872819038554148882 FYI 'OOTD' == 'outfit of the day'

Modified3019 2y ago
I love a new anarchy chess meta
fuzzythinker 2y ago
That's decent dress jeans too, not like some baggy, hole-y or sloppy jeans.
- matsemann 2y ago
  Some other guy interviewed by Norwegian television also came out from the arbiter room, but he didn't get fined. His pants looked like worn jeans, but since it wasn't denim material (only made to look like ugly jeans) it was ok. Highlights how weird the rules are.
- TacticalCoder 2y ago
  I used to frequent fancy private parties with people who mostly all had money and nobility titles (EU). Unless it was a ball (which I used to go to do) that had a strict dress code, most men had nice cars, nice shoes and... Dress jeans.
beyondCritics 2y ago
Tasteful and elegant, but somewhat thought provoking at the same time.
yesyesyawl 2y ago
[dead]

kevinventullo 2y ago

I wonder if there is even a single player in the tournament who cares about the dress code. It is hard to imagine anyone who was serious about chess caring about the material a player’s pants are made of. No, I think this falls squarely in the realm of bureaucratic administrators who have nothing better to do than assert their power and maintain the illusion of a connection between talent (great chess players) and the trivial signaling games of the upper class (the style of pants one is wearing).

tmalsburg2 2y ago
The only thing that's more ridiculous than an antiquated dress code is an antiquated dress code that's selectively applied to some players and not to others. Other players had to change, so FIDE could hardly make an exception for Carlsen. If Carlsen cares so little about the tournament that he can't even be bothered to change his pants, he should probably not have participated in the first place.
JellyBeanThief 2y ago
> I think this falls squarely in the realm of bureaucratic administrators who have nothing better to do than assert their power and maintain the illusion of a connection between talent (great chess players) and the trivial signaling games of the upper class (the style of pants one is wearing). I concur except about the bureaucratic administrators. I think they do this because the upper class will replace them if they don't do the work of asserting the upper class's power.
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  The upper class has been wearing expensive jeans for a very long time.
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  The upper class has been wearing expensive jeans for a very long time. The upper class doesn’t need dress code. They know they are the upper class. Dress codes are for petit bourgeois and the upper middle class who try to pretend but everyone knows they are actually middle class.

geor9e 2y ago

Not paired for round 9, meaning he was following the dress code for the earlier rounds. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Ok Magnus.

ergonaught 2y ago

I was pretty happy he didn’t cave in to this demand. He accepted the fine and agreed to change for the next game day. They were being belligerent.

Brian_K_White 2y ago

A simple question. Why do people watch chess tournaments? A: To see administrators administrate. B: To see chess players play chess. Someone somewhere has lost sight of a most basic fundamental that everything else they may care about rests on.

linsomniac 2y ago
C: To see well dressed people play chess.
- 8note 2y ago
  technically no. theres only a camera feed on magnus, really. everyone is just watching the board. i know i was, for Rosen's games this weekend hikaru was trying to get camera feed of his games to stream, and fide said no
  - linsomniac 2y ago
    Also, technically, I'm watching video feeds of various players, and also seeing camera angles with an audience... :-)
- Brian_K_White 2y ago
  Might as well add "D: for the coffee in the lobby". It's the same level of true and the same level of relevant.

llm_nerd 2y ago

"At the time of his default, Carlsen had scored 5/8 and was a point and a half behind the leaders, with little chance of retaining his title." EDIT: I find it hilarious that this is downvoted. It's incredibly cogent to the point. If Magnus was leading the event I guarantee he wouldn't have pursued this distraction.

thatswrong0 2y ago
I’ve see Magnus come back from behind before. A lot. He’s been fed up with FIDE for a while if you’ve been paying attention. There’s a lot more to this than just his pants.
- llm_nerd 2y ago
  It's an odds thing. He was unlikely to win. There are some very strong opponents. Could he have won? Sure. But note that he didn't protest the dress code at the beginning of the event. And sure, he's "fed up" with FIDE (in the sense that everyone who thinks they are bigger than a league does). So why did he participate? If he had the purported principles, he should just withdraw from FIDE sanctioned events, no?
  - thatswrong0 2y ago
    He was just like "I'll take the fine now and change pants tomorrow" Changing organizations like FIDE doesn't happen by withdrawing.

OJFord 2y ago

> [Carlsen] it became a point of principle I think if anybody's to be commended for their principle it's probably the organisers? They have their dress code, he violated it, was warned, continued to violate it, and they enforced the rule despite his name.

llm_nerd 2y ago
Precisely this. The dress code was not a secret. Once Carlsen had little chance of winning the event he decided to make it about himself with this display. No one should commend this selfish arrogance, and in no universe is it "principle" to exhibit such prima donna behaviour for attention (and to conveniently exit from a likely loss). Magnus is a tremendous chess player. He's also, by all evidence, a massive asshole, and continuously shows boorish behaviour and terrible sportsmanship.
- carrychains 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - llm_nerd 2y ago
    I assure you, Magnus is quite good at chess. And yes, he is a massive asshole, at least in regards to chess. He is an incredibly sore loser, constantly makes it about himself (at the cost of every other competitor, such as in this case: they can't have beaten him, but instead he had to do this spectacle to give himself an excuse to exit and to asterisk their win). He has done this sort of thing again and again. He has loads and loads of fanboys who will always excuse this behaviour. Who'll say that he has earned the right to be like this. They'll adulate poor sportsmanship like showing up terribly late "like a boss", as if this isn't contemptible behaviour. Eh. And he can. He might be the greatest chess player ever. Doesn't change that he's obnoxious and boorish.
    - threatofrain 2y ago
      The reason why Magnus leaving is a spectacle is because of us and what we want out of our superstars, otherwise he's just another player, and players drop out all the time for any reason and nobody cares. The masses are the ones who elevate him and assume that because he plays a game so well then the spotlight must be on him. Magnus did not seize the spotlight of our attention and he never owned it.

deskr 2y ago

What kind of a savage plays competitive chess in jeans‽

rf15 2y ago
I know right? You need a helmet and knee protection at least, it's a rough sport.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  I understand the necessity for the knee pads, as they clearly help with performing under-the-table negotiations. But what function does the helmet serve?
  - miceareacrutch 2y ago
    Ballistic protection in particularly violent captures.
  - deskr 2y ago
    I seem to remember stories back in the day about threatening ashtrays and flipped chessboards. Helmets might not be a bad idea.
  - pmontra 2y ago
    Ensure that no AI can beam moves to players brains. Tinfoil helmets, of course.
  - OJFord 2y ago
    Clearly you haven't seen House!
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    > What function does the helmet serve? Protection from the biggest danger in chess, being hit by flying pieces.
- nottorp 2y ago
  How about chess boxing?

bmacho 2y ago

There is a random puzzle at the middle of the article as the illustration, and the solution at the bottom of the article.

fredoralive 2y ago
This appears to be a weekly chess column in the newspaper, and they all seem to have a chess puzzle in them[1]. I suspect in the paper it would be at the end of the column, with the answer on another page. It's perhaps a bit of an inelegant way to present it on the web version, but that's probably some sort of tradeoff with how the Guardian's website works, and if it's worth adding some sort of special case presentation for the chess column, which probably isn't exactly the most read bit of the site. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/sport/series/leonard-barden-chess https://www.theguardian.com/sport/series/leonard-barden-ches...

david-gpu 2y ago

The context in which this happened matters a lot. There have been tensions between the FIDE organization and top players like Carlsen since the latter have been promoting an alternative chess organization around Freestyle chess (aka Chesss960), which has slightly different rules. I.e. this is less about "dress code enforcement" and it is more about "Carlsen is fed up with the FIDE organization in general".

zmgsabst 2y ago
Very late concurring comment: Hikaru mentioned there had been drama between FIDE and himself about having cameras at the same tournament — and he felt FIDE refused to give him airtime on their streams. Hikaru also had drama with FIDE about the Freestyle league. I think both happening at the same tournament, which they had threatened to boycott if FIDE didn’t permit them to also play Freestyle league, indicates this is political.
SlonBog 2y ago
Also the context is Magnus wasn’t best at this tournament. He was somewhere in middle in table and had less chances of converting. He has history of throwing tantrums when on tilt (Seinqfield 2022)
- david-gpu 2y ago
  It is also his first Christmas after his mother's passing, so I think it is fair to say that he's under a lot of stress already. We will see how other players react today. Will they wear jeans in protest?
  - tromp 2y ago
    Why would you protest against enforcement of the rules that everyone was aware of and agreed to by participating? I agree that rules against jeans make limited sense. It makes more sense to forbid worn down or shabby looking attire. But one should abide by the rules one signs up to.

vouaobrasil 2y ago

I think the dress code is stupid. But if he were against it, he should not have attended at all. To attend and make a scene is just about publicity. It touches the superficial thread of rebellion without being respectable or commendable.

janalsncm 2y ago
He didn’t yell or cause a scene, he broke the rule, received a punishment and explained his reasoning in an interview afterwards. That is perfectly respectable in my opinion. Part of what makes showing up in jeans way more valuable than not showing up is how normal it seems otherwise. Show, don’t tell, basically. If you didn’t know about the rule it wouldn’t have seemed out of place at all.
cbg0 2y ago
On the other hand, this is the most impactful way to change antiquated rules.
- vouaobrasil 2y ago
  That is true.
enkid 2y ago
Seems like publicity is the point. Getting headlines is a lot more likely to change something then just skipping the tournament.
viraptor 2y ago
Rules don't get changed due to people quietly saying "I don't like this rule" while staying at home. Public rebellion is what gets the job done. Protests that don't inconvenience anyone are irrelevant.
- Aachen 2y ago
  Would it have been quiet if the defending champion decides to stay at home and when someone asks him he says it's because of a disagreement about the event's rules? Wouldn't that have gone around and raised the issue/discussion? I'm still undecided who's right here or who should have done what: I'm not for stupid dress codes, but it also seems silly to get hung up over if you can easily comply at no detriment to your performance or anything, so idk, just saying that it does seem like an option to stay home if you disagree when you're someone whose absence would be very conspicuous

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

unsupp0rted 2y ago

Chess is supposed to be a game for smart people. Why would smart people care about denim vs. trousers? Let competitors wear pajamas- it makes no difference.

CarlitosHighway 2y ago
[flagged]
- unsupp0rted 2y ago
  > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
m463 2y ago
Sounds a little like academics. Smart people living game of thrones...
booleandilemma 2y ago
It's a game of concentration, and what you wear could affect people's concentration. Better to just stick to a dress code.
- jfengel 2y ago
  Man, it would be weird if they showed up covered in patches like a NASCAR driver or pro poker player. I'm usually not one to stand on formality but that does feel kinda gross.
lm28469 2y ago
[flagged]
menotyou 2y ago
> Why would smart people care about denim vs. trousers? Mostly it's about the sponsors. It's much more difficult to get sponsors for an event if the participants are dressed like they slept in their clothes. That's why organizers try to impose minimal standards on dresscodes. Jeans and sneakers are maybe debatable, but players showed up with cargo pants, shorts or tank tops on other events. In the FIDE regulation for that event jeans were explicitly mentioned as not allowed. FIDE would have made a fool out of themselves when allowing Magnus to wear the jeans.

viraptor 2y ago

Reminds me of Ronnie O'Sullivan offending the snooker association by taking off shoes https://www.espn.co.uk/snooker/story/_/id/12736342/ronnie-osullivan-danger-fine-playing-no-shoes-world-championship-first-round https://www.espn.co.uk/snooker/story/_/id/12736342/ronnie-os... I hope silly enforcement like that dies out.

propter_hoc 2y ago
Or similarly, how he was accused of 'bringing the game of snooker into disrepute' by taking a shot with his left hand (and then playing three perfect games left-handed) http://en.espn.co.uk/snooker/sport/player/1241.html http://en.espn.co.uk/snooker/sport/player/1241.html
- ivanjermakov 2y ago
  Ironically he himself inspired thousands to watch and play snooker, myself included.

dist-epoch 2y ago

There was similar drama exactly a year ago recently about a woman chess player wearing "sport shoes": https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/asia/chess-fine-shoes-kazarian.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/asia/chess-fine-sho...

boothby 2y ago
The rules specifically said "dress to impress" and she wore thousand dollar shoes. Ridiculous. Good for Magnus, somebody needs to take a stand and he's got the clout to do so.
- reaperducer 2y ago
  The rules specifically said "dress to impress" and she wore thousand dollar shoes. Maybe not everyone is impressed by money?
  - tremon 2y ago
    Then the rules should have been more specific?
  - boothby 2y ago
    That's an abuse of quantifiers, and an interesting one. You suggest that the judges become literal fashion police, each individual with the authority to remove a contestant whose clothes are not impressive in their personal opinion. That should indeed be protested against; it's a chess tournament and not a fashion show. The word "to" is commonly interpreted to mean "for the purpose of" in this context. That is, the contestant should put effort into making their appearance impressive. Which, I also find offensive, but to a lesser degree. I'd propose that they certainly aren't "sport" sneakers, which is what she got dinged for. Unless you're a multi-millionaire playing tennis in a country club, I guess -- but the only reason a person would wear those particular shoes in sport would be to impress their peers. And if you're not personally impressed by money, how would you interpret the "dress to impress" guideline? Would you find any shoes to be impressive? Perhaps no shoes at all? I'd lean towards 6" platforms, myself, as some people find tallness impressive.

chirau 2y ago

[flagged]

threatofrain 2y ago
There are exemptions to all legal systems in the world, and you're using words like "official petition" and "civil disobedience" for a game.

23B1 2y ago

I love watching institutions cling to silly little rules to the point where it actually hurts them. It's a perfect demonstration of the problems with groupthink.

roelschroeven 2y ago
I think it's not so much groupthink, but rather that those institutions feel the need to make themselves look important and essential to the sport, instead of being there to facilitate the sport.
- 23B1 2y ago
  I would argue that groupthink is an umbrella term for what you describe; another might be 'bureaucracy' when used pejoratively, heh.

ripped_britches 2y ago

[flagged]

nitinreddy88 2y ago
Why it shouldn't be? Is there any rule book which defines.
xenity7 2y ago
It didn’t violate the dress code…
Dilettante_ 2y ago
Sometimes, when a HN user and a news article love each other very much[...]

blagie 2y ago

[flagged]

HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
I wonder if people would care as much about chess if it didn't foster an image of sophistication and intellectualism? Imagine if most players just turned up in street clothes and looked more like software developers .. would sponsors and the public be just as interested? Would available prize money be as good?
reaperducer 2y ago
[flagged]
- John23832 2y ago
  I don’t have a dog in this fight, but the mao suit was exactly inspired by western wear. There are more traditional forms or eastern dress.
motorest 2y ago
[flagged]
- blagie 2y ago
  Why? I'm neutral on Western. I'm fine with Western. I'm fine with non-Western. I'm not okay with discriminating against non-Western. My personal preference is for places to use locally-appropriate clothing for the simple, pragmatic reason that e.g. Western suits in Sub-Saharan Africa get too hot. Most local clothing tends to have gotten what it is for a reason. Even Arab clothing -- much criticized in the West for covering too much skin in the heat -- does well in sandy environments and ones where sunburn is an issue, and tends to be loose enough to provide for adequate airflow.
- mam2 2y ago
  I'm the opposite of woke but he's not wrong that suits are a western thing and and enforcing it as if it's universal is a bit pushy

laserlight 2y ago

You can listen to Magnus's own account, including his acknowledgment of his lower-than-expected performance and tensions with FIDE: Magnus Carlsen Got KICKED OUT Of World Championship (5 min) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTD_R8Scbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTD_R8Scbk

gverrilla 2y ago

[flagged]

BenjiWiebe 2y ago
Do they really? I have some black slacks that are 10 year old hand-me-downs from a relative and they look fine. My dress shirt for multiple years was a $5 second hand purchase - and I got more compliments on that shirt than on the ones that I got new.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  Most such things are more about insider cultural knowledge than actual money. Most “upper class” activities and styles can be done cheap or free, but you need to know how.
- gverrilla 2y ago
  Anectodal.

DonHopkins 2y ago

Imagine what a fuss they would have made if he wasn't wearing pants. You just can't win...

moomin 2y ago

I remember in the late 80s there was a bar called “Lennon’s” in Liverpool. The dress code banned jeans. Pretty sure John Lennon would have despised the place.

causality0 2y ago

This applies equally to everyone is always the rallying cry when a rule applies to everyone while not being equally onerous to everyone. It's like dress codes in schools that are much easier for girls to violate than boys, or office hairstyle bans that seem to only target styles used by black people.

abduhl 2y ago
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”

greatgib 2y ago

Something funny related to the topic of this news in my opinion: in the picture selected by the newspaper, the sponsor of the event looks like to be the "Freedom Holding corp"...

rurban 2y ago

Coincidence. The world best table tennis player, Fan Zen-Dong also just resigned, as well as two times world champion Chen Meng, from the sleazy organization called WTT. Which decides on WC and Olympics.

fourseventy 2y ago

This site is cancer on mobile

syngrog66 2y ago

should not be on HN front page. shame on you folks

funyun5 2y ago

[dead]

Nihilartikel 2y ago

Sooooo.. how about venues just be required to provide affordable black unisex chess mumuu's for players as needed? Problem solved?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

NotYourLawyer 2y ago

> Honestly, I’m too old at this point to care too much. If this is what they want to do I” ll probably set off to somewhere where the weather is a bit nicer Based.

bluedino 2y ago

There's a narrative that Magnus doesn't care at all about FIDE as he is on good terms with the Saudis and their funding availability for events etc

steinvakt2 2y ago
Yep, this is it. Magnus played poorly, knew jeans were not allowed, made himself get kicked out so that he could spin this as FIDE being unreasonable. It's all about the saudi money. This has been a debate in Norway. Surprised to see so many pro-Magnus comments here on HN. It's all a play.

Fnoord 2y ago

What's the point of this rule?

djaouen 2y ago

What is this, North Korea, where jeans are banned? Lol

kittikitti 2y ago

People take chess too seriously. The only thing being good at chess does is having more wins at chess, nothing else. It's not a sign of intelligence.

gerash 2y ago

Good on him. Stupid rule, stupid enforcement.

malwrar 2y ago

The FIDE dress code [1] appears to only forbid torn jeans, but otherwise explicitly allows them: > The following is acceptable for men players, captains, head of delegation. Suits, ties, dressy pants, trousers, *jeans*. And then later: > The following is NOT acceptable for men players, captains, head of delegation. Beach-wear slips, profanity and nude or semi-nude pictures printed on shirts, torn pants or jeans. Magnus did not wear torn jeans [2], I can’t see any justification for this enforcement choice. Don’t even get me started on the sex differences in these rules. [1]: https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_... [2]: https://x.com/MagnusCarlsen/status/1872819038554148882 https://x.com/MagnusCarlsen/status/1872819038554148882

_Algernon_ 2y ago
That appears to be from 2013 which is before the rule change that Carlsen is being hit with was made. AFAIK the change happened only a couple of years later.
- malwrar 2y ago
  Thanks for catching that! I found a 2024 document [1] that indeed appears to explicitly forbid jeans. [1]: https://doc.fide.com/docs/2024_WRBC/wrbc2024_dress_code.pdf https://doc.fide.com/docs/2024_WRBC/wrbc2024_dress_code.pdf
courseofaction 2y ago
If this is interpreted as torn jeans being disallowed, then fide has actually gone against the letter of its own code. That Carlsen will be able to point at this clause could embarrass them greatly, perhaps even legally?

mozzieman 2y ago

penalised by FIDE Council as follows: 5% of his/her prize money shall be forfeited to the Organiser and a further 5% to FIDE for each breach. In cases of serious misconduct, the player may be disqualified from the event. But the penalty he got was forfeit one game, i dont see that in the rules?