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USPS' long-awaited new mail truck makes its debut to rave reviews from carriers
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- monkaiju 2y agoMakes being a mail carrier sound significantly better. Between having AC and a union im almost envious
- spike021 2y agoI'm friends with my neighborhood mail carrier and during the summer he's told me the inside of his truck is like being in a tin can. It gets super hot. He tries to park it in shady spots while he's out making runs but that's not always possible.
- MarkMarine 2y agoOf my friends that went to 20 years in the military, half of them went to the post office after. You work for 40 years, retire at 58 with 2 pensions and full medical care. You'll never be rich but you probably never worried about losing your job a day in your life.
- tomcam 2y agoI call that rich
- hungie 2y agoLove these weird little guys.
- lucb1e 2y ago> the vehicles have airbags, 360-degree cameras, blind-spot monitoring, collision sensors[, AC,] and anti-lock brakes — all of which are missing on the [old ones]. Woa, is driving without airbags even legal nowadays or do they drive different ones in Germany? I always thought the USPS trucks looked... utilitarian old I guess, so like they shipped them over to keep the historical branding, but I don't know if that's actually the case Another interesting bit of the article: > the costs of installing thousands of charging stations and upgrading electrical service, made [electric delivery vehicles] unaffordable at a time [...]. That led to a deal in which the [US] government provided $3 billion > [they're buying] 106,000 vehicles through 2028. That included 60,000 next-gen vehicles, 45,000 of them electric models, along with 21,000 other electric vehicles
- ghaff 2y ago>Woa, is driving without airbags even legal nowadays I'm sure new vehicles require them in the US. But there's very wide latitude on safety feature requirements for older vehicles in the US.
- bobthepanda 2y agoThere’s also often exceptions and issues when it comes to one agency in the government trying to enforce rules on another. Notably, the death toll on 9/11 was made worse because the state used its authority to override the local building code which would have required more staircases and further spacing of them. Or any locality trying to enforce payment of parking tickets from higher entities or even their own off duty officers.
- ghaff 2y agoAnd there are antique plates etc. States are generally very hesitant to forbid people to drive their cars unless there's something that poses a serious imminent threat to others.
- SoftTalker 2y agoBecause not enough people own really old cars for it to be worth worrying about. And as you note, and increased endangerment is generally to the owner.
- hprotagonist 2y ago“it was legal when i bought it, so it’s legal now!”
- ghaff 2y agoMore like it was legal when someone originally bought it. (With some caveats.)
- Scoundreller 2y ago
- mynameishere 2y agoDoes anyone know how USPS/UPS/Fedex trucks can start and stop their engines over and over and over without running down the batteries? Do they have 400 amp/hour monsters installed and recharge them at the depot, or what?
- syntaxing 2y agoModern pure ICE cars have “idle-stop” technology. I believe it’s mandatory nowadays for any new pure ICE car in the US. One of the perks of buying hybrid IMO, the engine stopping at every stop is kind of annoying.
- datavirtue 2y agoYep, a lot of people turn it off due to it lashing the hell out of the timing chain significantly bumping up the $2000-$3000 maintenance schedule, or indeed making it even necessary. In addition, when the starter goes out it sells for about $1000. Part only. All of this amounts to dramatically reducing the service life of the engine. Replacing an engine costs a lot of CO2. Some will opt to just junk the beast because a new engine is $10k. I could go on and on. Avoid stop+start tech. It's meant to make ICE so unreliable that you run to an EV to get rid of all that shit mess.
- lesuorac 2y agoI'm not sure it's mandatory per-say. The stop-idle can factor into your mpg so it's an easy way to boost it (which there are requirements about).
- ghaff 2y agoI've actually been curious about that. For all the zillion things I can configure in my Honda Passport, I can apparently not turn that annoying feature off. It's OK. I just reflexively hit the button when I start the car now. But I assume having it non-configurable factors into some fleet MPG calculation. (It's annoying because it interjects a slight delay when I make a left-hand turn.)
- jakelazaroff 2y agoThe first sentence says they’re not going to win a beauty contest but I think they’re kinda cute! Presumably the low hood helps a lot with visibility.
- hypeatei 2y agoPersonally, I think it looks really bad. Especially after seeing a different angle on the Wikipedia page[0]. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV
- rustyminnow 2y agoI'll bet it looks fantastic from the inside with those huge windows and tiny hoods.
- addicted 2y agoThose huge windows and tiny hoods also probably make them significantly safer for little kids and pets. USPS trucks are regularly driving through highly residential areas including fairly quiet ones where little kids may possibly be running around close to the street or even on them.
- giraffe_lady 2y agoSo this is basically just what cars should look like.
- stefan_ 2y agoWhy is it so extremely loud inside, though?
- allenu 2y agoThat picture makes it look even cuter to me, like it’s a Pixar character. It won’t win any beauty contests but I like that they put function over form here. Edit: corrected my phrasing about function over form. Thanks!
- shepherdjerred 2y agoI love it when my tax dollars are used for something like this. A worthwhile project that seems to have been well executed.
- nicholastsmith 2y agoDepending if that was sarcasm or not, I may have some bad/good news for you: https://facts.usps.com/0-tax-dallars/ https://facts.usps.com/0-tax-dallars/
- BoringTimesGang 2y agoIs the misspelling (dallars) a reference I've missed?
- Axsuul 2y ago"He found a way to further boost the number of electric vehicles when he met with President Joe Biden’s top environmental adviser, John Podesta. That led to a deal in which the government provided $3 billion to the Postal Service, with part of it earmarked for electric charging stations."
- shepherdjerred 2y agoThat wasn't sarcastic hah. I just assumed it was taxpayer funded!
- blagie 2y agoIt is. https://www.linns.com/news/postal-updates/taxpayer-funds-come-to-the-u.s.-postal-service-s-rescue https://www.linns.com/news/postal-updates/taxpayer-funds-com... For my perspective, supporting USPS in this way is among the very best uses of my taxpayer dollars.
- vondur 2y agoIf it’s got AC the postal carriers will love it.
- OptionOfT 2y ago> The gross vehicle weight rating of the NGDV with an ICE, including payload, is 8,501 lb (3,856 kg),[2]: Table 3-1.2 just one pound over the EPA's threshold to be considered a heavy-duty truck, allowing it to avoid more stringent pollution emissions and efficiency standards for light-duty trucks. Source: https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-new-usps-trucks-would-probably-be-illegal-if-they-weighed-one-pound-less/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-new-usps-trucks-would-pr... Not sure if that's still valid (obviously not for the electric versions), but that is actually insane.
- infecto 2y agoIn my opinion these are a huge miss. Maybe I am overly optimistic but they generally are not carrying a lot of weight, fairy local and lots of stop and starts. Would have been amazing to at least get some hybrids in the mix.
- mayneack 2y agoA majority of them are full electric.
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- mgerdts 2y agoWhich was not the original plan. Luckily enough pressure was applied to improve the plan. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-postal-service-gas-trucks-electric-biden-epa/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-postal-service-gas-trucks-el...
- nielsbot 2y agoI don’t get it. Wouldn’t electric vehicles save them money in the long run? A lot of money? EDIT: per this comment charging infrastructure was going to be a huge cost. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41544204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41544204
- gndhfgbrvwfvtvs 2y ago[flagged]
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- russfink 2y agoDeJoy was a Trump appointee. As witnessed by other such appointees (education, EPA), I was concerned DeJoy would gut the postal service. Sounds like that isn’t the case.
- rconti 2y agoThere was a TON of controversy early on. There were _significant_ cuts, and, IIRC, very poor performance during the first Christmas season. I remember a large amount of negativity about both his proposed changes and the actual changes he implemented. Of course, the extent to which you think it's trying to kill the USPS vs simply make it more efficient to save it will depend a lot on your politics.
- fullstop 2y agoWe received Christmas cards mid-January which were sent well before Christmas.
- coin 2y agoHe tried gas powered, then due to backlash got the government to give $3B for electric. “Environmentalists were outraged when DeJoy announced that 90% of the next-gen vehicles in the first order would be gas-powered. Lawsuits were filed demanding that the Postal Service further electrify its fleet of more than 200,000 vehicles to reduce tailpipe emissions.” “He found a way to further boost the number of electric vehicles when he met with President Joe Biden’s top environmental adviser, John Podesta. That led to a deal in which the government provided $3 billion to the Postal Service, with part of it earmarked for electric charging stations.”
- bpodgursky 2y agoMy understanding is that the bought a majority-gas fleet with the budget he had, and as congress have him additional money for EV purchases, he adjusted increasingly towards EVs. Also, 2021 was a long time ago. It was easy in 2021 to say "We're transitioning to EVs by 2030!" but it was not easy to actually buy $6B in working EV vans... they were all hypothetical. That changed, and so the USPS purchases did accordingly.
- rglover 2y agoIt looks like a Pixar character that's about to teach me a valuable lesson.
- darth_avocado 2y agoStrange that Amazon can make Rivian trucks work but not USPS.
- shepherdjerred 2y agoWhy is it strange? Isn't it common and expected for the government to lag behind the private sector?
- Axsuul 2y agoThere's different requirements and use cases.
- mburns 2y agoRivians cost ~45% more per-unit than the postal vehicle (86k vs $59k), and doesn’t come in an ice variant, which the Post Office requires.
- darth_avocado 2y agoSeems like ice requirements don’t apply to every state
- tomcam 2y agoThey don’t, but California essentially dictates them because nobody wants to cut themselves out of the richest state’s car sales
- mburns 2y agoThe ice requirement has nothing to do with California standards, which only applies to cars bought in California, which USPS doesn’t do. Some postal routes are in cold climates with harsh winters where EVs would be impractical.
- MetaWhirledPeas 2y agoWhy does it require a variant? Why can't the necessary ICE vehicles be one of the countless existing options?
- hyperific 2y agoThey look like something from Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs
- 404mm 2y agoI am surprised by the long hood/nose and then thick bumpers. By law, there’s usually 6-10’ space requirement for parking near a mailbox on a street. And cars rarely follow those rules, parking pretty close to mailboxes. So I’d expect the front end to be as short as possible so driver can more easily maneuver to reach mail boxes.
- QuarterReptile 2y agoPresumably the mailmen can just take a lesson from Amazon, UPS et al and leave the vehicle idling in the travel lane when that happens.
- aidenn0 2y ago> By law, there’s usually 6-10’ space requirement for parking near a mailbox on a street. And cars rarely follow those rules, parking pretty close to mailboxes. Usually? I've lived in 3 states and none of them had this requirement. The closest is California which merely requires that a parked car not "obstruct the normal movement" of a mail carrier.
- luxuryballs 2y agoThey’re going to be replacing a lot of windshields…
- ooterness 2y agoEasier to replace windshields than run-over kids. Good visibility is more important.
- sschueller 2y agoIf visibility was important then why put such a large snout?
- boomboomsubban 2y agoWhy does the article only mention the mpg the older cars get? A significant number of the new ones use gas, do they perform better? I somewhat suspect not given their size.
- phonon 2y agoThe internal combustion engine (ICE) variant has an estimated fuel efficiency of 14.7 mpg‑US (16.0 L/100 km), decreasing to 8.6 mpg‑US (27 L/100 km) when the air conditioning is on. For comparison, the earlier LLV (built 1987–94) and FFV (2000–01) have an average observed fuel consumption of 8.2 and 6.9 mpg‑US (29 and 34 L/100 km), respectively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV
- grecy 2y agoWow, that is a massive hit to fuel consumption from the A/C. What gives?
- boomboomsubban 2y agoIs it? The thing's huge, air conditioning is never cheap. A quick search says average cars consume ~25% more gas with AC, making it somewhat high. I think short trips at low speeds are also terrible for AC, dunno how they did the projections.
- maxglute 2y agoForm follows function but also goofy Pentagon Wars tier design.
- CalRobert 2y agoI appreciate that even a young child could stand in front of the grill and be visible. Well done.
- analog31 2y agoI was going to comment that these trucks could be much less dangerous in collisions with pedestrians and cyclists, without sacrificing utility. It could encourage better design standards for things like pickup trucks, SUVs, and minivans.
- QuarterReptile 2y ago>pickup trucks, SUVs, and minivans. Are minivans really comparable to SUVs and pickup trucks in this problem? They never give off the "angry wall of death" vibe to me, like the other two...
- Sakos 2y agoSeems to be coming from this https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/suvs-other-large-vehicles-often-hit-pedestrians-while-turning https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/suvs-other-large-vehicles-o... > At intersections, the odds that a crash that killed a crossing pedestrian involved a left turn by the vehicle versus no turn were about twice as high for SUVs, nearly 3 times as high for vans and minivans and nearly 4 times as high for pickups as they were for cars. The odds that a crash that killed a crossing pedestrian involved a right turn by the vehicle were also 89 percent higher for pickups and 63 percent higher for SUVs than for cars. Such turning crashes accounted for more than 900 of around 5,800 fatal pedestrian crashes at or near U.S. intersections during 2014-18.
- l1tany11 2y agoPickup truck front end design has nothing to do with this. It’s entirely based on Tonka Truck design principles I.e. bigger and boxier and higher is more tough! Tough = good! It’s the same reason glove sizing at Home Depot starts at XL and goes up from there. In reality pickup trucks are kind of a joke. For instance the 2023 Toyota Tacoma, often cited as being “good” cause it’s smaller, has worse gas mileage than an f-150 and has a max payload of 900lbs. You know what else has a max payload of 900lbs? A sedan. Ford actually got rid of the heavy duty package from the f-150 (which increased the max payload to around 3,000lbs from about 1500) because they said people weren’t buying it… You can’t fill the bed of an F-150 with sand, with plywood, with cement bags, with lots of building materials. You can easily overload it.
- loxodrome 2y agoHow is it the new model looks even more outdated than the old one?
- bgnn 2y agothese sonehow look like.. US.
- 23B1 2y agoAn abomination clearly designed by committee.
- fluorinerocket 2y agoMaybe we could cut down on carbon emissions by drastically cutting down on junk mail sent
- giarc 2y agoIt's honestly not the junk mail, its all the crap from Amazon/Temu/Aliexpress etc etc.
- standardUser 2y agoIf I order something from Amazon, I use it. If I get junk mail I throw it directly in the trash. They are not the same.
- giarc 2y agoMy point is that junk mail is typically printed locally, on paper. Much of Amazon/Temu deliveries are plastic junk, made in China and shipped overseas. Watch various Reels/Tiktoks/etc and you'll see how many influencers buy crappy gadgets that aren't really needed. We are creating so much junk.
- jbm 2y agoI literally have never seen spare parts for any electronics in a Canadian store. Aliexpress has rescued more than a handful of my devices from the dumpster. Far more helpful than the junk mail garbage that Canada Post helpfully dumps into my home (I'm in one of the few areas where they still deliver to the house, a complete joke of a system compared to USPS)
- standardUser 2y agoIn almost every instance, I love when function is prioritized over form. This seems like a landmark implementation of that philosophy. Brava!
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- casefields 2y agoThey look ugly as hell but if it works and makes carriers job easier and more efficient then it’s a success in my book.
- pishpash 2y agoWill these not roll over easily?
- MBCook 2y agoThe EV version would certainly have a very low center of gravity. The gas one wouldn’t be as good but they must have tested for that right?
- slowmovintarget 2y agoThat's the difference between UX and mere aesthetics. Great UX sometimes looks goofy, until you live with it for a bit.
- 23B1 2y agoGreat UX should aesthetic and functional. It's never a choice between the two, especially these days.
- Kye 2y agoThe USPS has a podcast with an episode on the process behind it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShhBZVE68-0&list=PL1NEtJgO49CWVWSpWi6sFlLcUaWts88cQ&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShhBZVE68-0&list=PL1NEtJgO49...
- philwelch 2y agoIs there an explanation for why the USPS needs custom-designed vehicles built by a defense contractor when every other last mile delivery company just buys ordinary vans and trucks?
- drfuchs 2y agoUPS trucks are custom designed for UPS; they used to have a nice documentary about it. New Amazon trucks around where I live are clearly custom (and also not very pretty, if you ask me).
- robohoe 2y agoNew Amazon trucks are built by Rivian.
- MBCook 2y agoI saw a Rivian mobile service van for the first time about two weeks ago. I was behind it in traffic. It’s exactly the same design as Amazon, just different paint. All I could think of was “they repainted an Amazon van“. I know Rivian makes them all. But seeing so many Amazon vans has changed who “owns“ the design in my mind.
- pishpash 2y agoNone have huge windows like this. Are the tasks that different?
- kelnos 2y agoPerhaps the next generation of UPS trucks will have large windows like the new USPS trucks. If it seems to be a useful feature, others will adopt it eventually.
- Symbiote 2y agoIt's very clearly a useful feature for seeing children while driving round residential areas, where they might be playing in the street. Since it costs extra, Amazon will only adopt if if they're forced, either by regulation or significant social pressure.
- tocs3 2y agoIt is always a little refreshing to hear of a successful government project. Congratulations. I was skeptical of Louis Dejoy's appointment to the USPS but maybe it will turn out OK.
- MBCook 2y agoI’m still very skeptical. I think we’re at this point due to pressure, the failing old fleet, and lawsuits. But I’m glad this is happening. I remember all the discussions around it but have never seen one in person so I had no idea what the status was. To know they’re out there is great. I can’t wait until they get to my area. And I’d like to hear an update after carriers have really lived with them for a year and really know the flaws and benefits inside and out. I’ll miss the old Grumman LLVs though. They are the post office to me, being there basically all my life. Such an unmistakeable symbol. But it’s time has come.
- kelnos 2y ago> I’ll miss the old Grumman LLVs though. They are the post office to me, being there basically all my life. Same. I was 6 years old when they started rolling out, and don't really remember the previous vehicles. While I actually like (or at least don't mind) the look of the new trucks, they give me that feeling when I'm traveling in a different country, and the normal/standard service vehicles look different and "weird".
- falcolas 2y ago> I’ll miss the old Grumman LLVs though. They are the post office to me, being there basically all my life. Such an unmistakeable symbol. But it’s time has come. Living in a rural area, the mail car was a right-hand-drive station wagon with their spare tire on the roof (to make more room for mail inside). My entire childhood, that is what I saw delivering mail. Now? Now it's an Outback with the spare on the roof...
- MBCook 2y agoMakes sense. From time to time I'll see another kind of vehicle, often a white van. But living in suburbs they've been the majority by far for me.
- Dwedit 2y agoBig bumper in the front.
- MBCook 2y agoI wonder what’s up there in the EV version. Maybe more battery?
- jerlam 2y agoThey are probably not putting one of the most expensive and unrepairable components in the bumper. The bumpers look ugly because they aren't integrated into the car body/metawork, and can be more easily replaced. I do wonder if bumpers that low will have mismatch problems with higher modern cars (aka SUVs and trucks), whose bumpers may go right over the mail trucks' bumpers and cause major damage.
- MBCook 2y agoI wouldn't think you'd do it full length to the front, just closer to behind the dash where you could get some extra battery in but still have lots of crumple zone in front of it. Just a guess. I'd love to see a video giving a deep overview of these the way you see car reviews on YouTube.
- whamlastxmas 2y agoQuick online search suggests it’s for pedestrian safety and preventing damage which makes sense, mail trucks are driving super close to stuff all the time
- RIMR 2y agoDoes anyone know where one might go to buy the retired vehicles?
- jerlam 2y agoPossibly government surplus: https://www.gsaauctions.gov/auctions/home https://www.gsaauctions.gov/auctions/home Although I suspect since the transition will take a long time, the "retired" vehicles will be kept for spare parts where the old vehicles are still being used, and many will still be kept just in case.
- lucifargundam 2y agohttps://www.govplanet.com/?h= https://www.govplanet.com/?h=
- lgdskhglsa 2y agoyou may want to watch this review first :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3g2p4KKS74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3g2p4KKS74
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago> Does anyone know where one might go to buy the retired vehicles? My son had looked into this and it looks like you can't. Some of it is due to the LLV being manufactured with exemptions from certain US car standards. Some of it is due to a obligation (with Grumman IIRC) that the LLV be destroyed after retirement. We settled for a 31k mi 1992 Buick with the same Iron Duke engine.
- RIMR 2y agoDamn, if the intent of electrifying the fleet is to be more ecologically friendly, allowing these older vehicles to be recirculated seems like a compelling thing to do. I suppose the weird configuration of these vehicles doesn't make it a very good option as a personal vehicle, so destroying them is probably just as ecological as selling them to hobbyists like me. It will be sad to see these things disappear from existence though. They've been a part of my life since I was a kid.
- jawns 2y agoI was always under the impression that the lack of air conditioning in these vehicles had less to do with budget constraints and more with process constraints. If they're driving mailbox to mailbox, they'll likely want to keep their window down, and they frequently need to get in and out of the vehicle to deliver packages. Wouldn't that lead to a lot of dissipation of cooled air?
- analog31 2y agoI admit that A/C with windows down is how I use it when driving around town. Just for when I get into a hot car. When the car cools down, I turn the A/C off. I do run A/C on highway trips, partly because I suspect that the noise with windows open can cause hearing damage.
- MBCook 2y agoIt may have made their already abysmal mileage even worse. If it nocked off 2 MPG that would be an almost 25% reduction. Glad the poor postal carriers are finally getting it. Having some in sweltering heat, even if you’re always in and out, is better than just a little fan.
- kelnos 2y agoA/C with windows down and frequent door opening is still going to be a lot more comfortable for the driver than a crappy fan. Even if that makes it wasteful, and makes the vehicles more expensive to operate, our postal workers deserve some comfort while they're driving around all day, 5-6 days a week.
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- non- 2y ago> Noisy and fuel-inefficient (9 mpg), the Grummans are costly to maintain. > Environmentalists were outraged when DeJoy announced that 90% of the next-gen vehicles in the first order would be gas-powered. I was gonna say they environmentalists were wrong for this, if the new trucks get significantly better mpg performance that's still a big win. But apparently with the AC running the new trucks still only get 9mpg.[1][2] [1] https://earthjustice.org/press/2022/message-delivered-usps-charts-a-course-for-an-electric-mail-truck-fleet#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20Postal%20Service,with%20the%20air%20conditioning%20on https://earthjustice.org/press/2022/message-delivered-usps-c.... [2] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/the-epa-and-white-house-take-fire-at-inefficient-new-mail-trucks/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/the-epa-and-white-house...
- dgfitz 2y agoI can’t quickly find the mileage with the AC not running. More to the point, it is mostly a myth that running the AC uses a significant amount of fuel. The compressor is usually driven by the serpentine belt, and adding the clutch plate for the AC into that system does not add significant drag. A little, yes.
- FateOfNations 2y agoIt can have some added effects for more modern vehicles. For example, if the AC is running in my car, the engine auto start/stop is disabled.
- anamexis 2y agoI would assume it's not the clutch plate that adds significant drag, but the AC compressor itself.
- dgfitz 2y agoYeah I could have phrased that better. The clutch plate engaging the compressor would have been more specific, I assumed it was implied. Apologies.
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- dtagames 2y agoIt's unforgivable that the entire fleet was not mandated to be electric from the start, especially given the post office's nationwide network of parking and service areas where they could charge. Instead, these will burn gas and emit pollutants in neighborhoods while running in stop-and-go mode, the least efficient and most polluting way to drive.
- ars 2y agoYou need to visit rural areas. Not everything is a city.
- MetaWhirledPeas 2y agoRural areas have fewer trucks and therefore require fewer chargers. I'm not seeing the problem here. If you mean range, the old LLVs don't get much beyond 100 miles of range as it is. For comparison, Amazon's Rivians trucks have a 200 mile range.
- dzhiurgis 2y agoOr just buy existing electric van from someone like MB or Rivian.
- MBCook 2y agoThere are probably places where gas may still make more sense, like extremely cold climates. The article says they’re going “mostly” electric. I suspect a reverse of what DeJoy with 90% electric would be good. But since he’s still in charge it wouldn’t surprise me if the number was more like 52%.
- m463 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV