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US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication
- DanAtC 2y agoContext: https://mastodon.social/@ashleygjovik/112668309100333232 https://mastodon.social/@ashleygjovik/112668309100333232
- cbsmith 2y agoEven better context: https://www.ashleygjovik.com/3250scott.html https://www.ashleygjovik.com/3250scott.html
- dang 2y agoThanks. I've included that one too in the comment pinned at the top.
- PROgrammerTHREE 2y agoMuch better unbiased journalistic context: https://www.siliconvalley.com/2018/03/19/apple-secretly-developing-screens-in-unmarked-santa-clara-facility-report/ https://www.siliconvalley.com/2018/03/19/apple-secretly-deve...
- dang 2y agoThanks. I've included that link in the comment pinned at the top.
- martinky24 2y agoIs there any backing to this that doesn’t originate from a very disgruntled former employee?
- smlavine 2y agoHere's the EPA report: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/312oqvretg7yyhfx0ohx4/AGZduVXs0_1geqIyi0NA9nE?rlkey=3aa2tw15ek3trqlbdh7pw9erh&st=e7pg1cpp&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/312oqvretg7yyhfx0ohx4/AGZduVX...
- fortran77 2y agoThere is a link to what appears to be an EPA report in the mastadon thread.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y agoAgreed, also, if anyone has ever dealt with regualtors before things like: > at least 19 potential violations Is about 00.00% noteworthy to me until it is defined as to what those are, and I guarantee that none of them will be “poisoned employees living quarters”. Same with the repeating “illegal” over and over. Not having the right sticker on something might be illegal (EDIT: good guess? More like I know this game, the EPA isn’t what you think they are), transporting at night without filling the right form might be illegal, not following a process because you chose an objectively better system that isn’t on the books might be illegal. I have some idea how Apple handles their materials, the same way every other major company does, which good or bad, is almost definitely more legal than the majority of small companies. But this is a scale discussion. I can hear the ax grinding in every post. What is clear is that she is in it for a payday. EDIT: read some of the report. Apple marked a bucket as waste, the EPA could not determine if it was state, federal, or even waste at all. HOW LONG WILL THESE BASTARDS KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!!?
- PROgrammerTHREE 2y ago> EDIT: read some of the report. Apple marked a bucket as waste, the EPA could not determine if it was state, federal, or even waste at all. HOW LONG WILL THESE BASTARDS KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!!? THIS BEHAVIOR GOT A WOMAN ALMOST KILLED
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- juanani 2y ago[dead]
- peppertree 2y agoI live near Santa Clara area so I scanned the EPA report. It mentioned improperly covered activated charcoal and possible improper storage of chemicals, but no mention of releasing solvent vapor in open air. Apple absolutely should be held at higher standard especially operating near residential and school areas, but in this case it looks like a disgruntled ex employee trying to settle a score. I don't think this belongs on HN.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- langsoul-com 2y agoFrom the thread TLDR; EPA discovered that Apple was: - illegally treating hazardous waste - illegally transporting hazardous waste to disposal facilities - illegally dumping hazardous waste into the ambient air outside the facility (into the apartment windows) - leaving stockpiles of extremely dangerous chemicals unattended on weekends
- vlovich123 2y agoAnd they were accidentally tipped off about the inspection when it should have been a complete surprise. I feel like stuff like this should be capable of piercing the corporate veil so that people involved could be criminally prosecuted. As-is, Apple is incentivized to just keep this kind of behavior in their ranks because it’s just the cost of doing business as they usually get away with this kind of stuff.
- hanniabu 2y agoI worked at a Colgate manufacturing plant and we were given about a week heads up when the FDA would come do an inspection, we would know the exact day about 3 days before, and we would have about a 4hr heads up when they'll arrive. The way the plant operates normally and when they're there is night and day. We will shut down lines and clean for whole shifts leading up to it and when they're there we'll double the staff to have a whole shifts worth of people just constantly cleaning while the others work. We'll also slow down the lines to make sure things run smoothly and do more quality checks.
- vlovich123 2y agoAccording to the mastodon post this situation is a bit different because it was a (whistleblower?) complaint and thus it was supposed to be a surprise vs typically announced inspections.
- walterbell 2y agoHow many inspectors use Apple devices?
- langsoul-com 2y agoReminds me of Minamata, Japanese company was dumping mercury into the nearby lakes and hushing everything up. Movie is great BTW, thank fk I don't live near a chemical plant. Apple started to clean up only after getting tipped off of an EPA raid. They also didn't test or analyse chemicals. And conveniently stopped having weekly inspections. Truly a case of ignorance is bliss. Huh, toxic what now? No no it's NOT toxic, we marked it as non hazardous so it's OK.
- akira2501 2y ago> Truly a case of ignorance is bliss. Or "we fired the guys who complained until we stopped receiving complaints."
- s3p 2y agoThis is what's so strange to me. They weren't testing for the presence of hazmats and seemed to not care. This lab clearly isn't a prod lab, likely just research, and maybe that's why they were so comfortable leaving everything where it was. The one thing I found most disgusting, though, was the open tank in the basement. They said the tank would explode if they left it closed, so VOCs must have been venting out. But they left it open in... the basement... without any REAL ventilation. This belongs on r/OSHA.
- isodev 2y agoHere goes Apple Intelligence / some random feature not coming to the US because Apple has too much compliance to do. /s
- Reason077 2y agoThis is pretty awful. And if Apple, with all their supposed green credentials, are the ones dumping toxic industrial chemicals into the environment in the middle of Santa Clara, you can only imagine what the rest of the industry is like.
- hanniabu 2y agoI've called the county environmental service on a plastic recycling plant 0.5 mile's away from my house because any time the wind is blowing our way there's a really thick burning plastic smell that makes you want to gag. It makes it impossible to enjoy outside or open our windows. They try treating the smell as a nuisance complaint rather than a health hazard (tbh probably on purpose). Then they'll send someone to your property to see if they smell it. They need smell it for 15 continuous minutes and consider it intolerable for anything to be done about it. But the wind constantly shifts a little back and forth so it's impossible to get 15 continuous minutes and what they consider intolerable is so subjective. Even when it's strong the person tries telling me its barely noticeable and has the audacity to tell me it smells like popcorn (wtf?!?). The town doesn't care at all because it doesn't want to give residents preference over business. Now people are just starting to move away because they can't tolerate it anymore. It feels helpless when you're likely breathing in toxic VOCs and the people that are supposed to be the ones that help and protect you seem to be working for the companies.
- akira2501 2y agoGet with your neighbors and pay a company to sample that air. A report with actual numbers might help considerably.
- hanniabu 2y agoWe were having trouble finding anybody that would want to help and the costs were astronomical. Like we were getting quotes in the $250k range for the tests and the study. And even if we did that we'd have to prove that the poor air quality was coming from the plant, which you can't do unless you setup monitoring in their property, which they'd never allow. The company has a history of violations, but were somehow allowed to expand during COVID. That's when we started smelling it even though they were around for decades. They had air scrubbers before, but I haven't seen any new ones on their roof since the expansion, so all that new stuff from the new building must be just venting out. I feel horrible for the people that have to work inside. They're all foreigners that don't speak English. It doesn't seem like any of them are given breathing protection either. They're all getting taken advantage of.
- insaneirish 2y ago[flagged]
- talldayo 2y agoIt's possible to play both sides of the same coin. The pressure is 10x greater on Apple because in many ways, they're 10x larger than their competitors. They should be able to make the right bureaucratic calls, if not then why trust them with anything? A company like John Deere can lead the industry in fuel efficiency while also destroying the environment with an anti-consumer artificial depreciation policy. The idea that Apple systematically destroying the environment is at-odds with their pro-green marketing is a fallacy. They can (and do) make decisions that harm the environment that they refuse to justify. When your business makes a mistake and nobody is willing to respond or fix it, that's a sign that your bureaucratic body has become a corpse.
- ohmyiv 2y agoI dont think anyone here thinks it is a conspiracy. And I'm sure everyone here expects apple to take proper responsibility. But whataboutism about other companies doesn't hide the fact that there were/are violations. This isn't gonna kill apple, don't worry nor will it permanently tarnish their reputation you're so worried about. But it is a big deal when they do spout green initiatives then get busted for stuff like this. Notice some of those dates? How absent does corporate have to be to allow stuff like this? Months and months on end with no real inspections? If Apple was as green as they say, this wouldn't have happened in the first place. They would understand these types of messes. So while the main cause may fall on some of the daily employees, where was management? Why weren't they doing their job as responsible environmental stewards as their image upholds? Again, IMO this isn't _that_ big of a deal so long as they stop those practices and get their stuff together. No amount of handwaving/whataboutisms is going to change this. Just accept that they got busted messing up and move on. Don't try to play it off and minimize stuff.
- insaneirish 2y ago> Just accept that they got busted messing up and move on. Don't try to play it off and minimize stuff. I'm actually not minimizing it. I'm simply pointing out that if this is the industry at its best, then yeesh, what is it at its worst?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- killjoywashere 2y agoThis is in Santa Clara, probably quite close to many HN regulars https://maps.app.goo.gl/WjLPzwrGvqoivBFT9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/WjLPzwrGvqoivBFT9 I personally wonder if this is why I have been occasionally smelling weird chemical odors from time to time. I live about 7 miles away, so probably not, but maybe.
- insaneirish 2y agoLet's go with "definitely not", given the amount of other things that could be within a 7 mile radius of your location. The blog paints this as some secret lair of nefarious experiments. It actually refers to the facility as a "Secret Silicon Fab" which is quite the logical leap. I would suspect they're etching PCBs, perhaps? One thing is for sure, it's not a silicon fab. I'm sorry, but if you're going to come with grandiose claims, your foundation should be solid and not hypothetical.
- Reason077 2y ago> "One thing is for sure, it's not a silicon fab." Why do you say that? Yes, the EPA report seems to be redacted to obscure what they're actually doing there. But there are multiple reports, some from Apple employees, that refer to it as a being some sort of small scale, "skunkworks" silicon fab.
- insaneirish 2y ago> Why do you say that? Mainly because Apple's custom silicon could not even be prototyped in a small scale facility. It'd likely be in Taiwan. > But there are multiple reports, some from Apple employees, that refer to it as a being some sort of small scale, "skunkworks" silicon fab. I apologize if I missed them. Please highlight. Curious of the credentials of the folks reporting such a thing, as well.
- talldayo 2y ago> It'd likely be in Taiwan. For sampling new nodes and producing the bulk of their chips, sure. But anything that's not tied to ASML doesn't inherently need to take place in Taiwan. TSMC is in a hugely advantaged position with IP and scalability, but I think it's feasible that Apple could test new lithography techniques or large-scale dies in any sort of environment they choose. Nobody is necessarily implying that they're prototyping low-yield iPhone hardware there.
- AceJohnny2 2y agoI wonder why this post was flagged.
- s3p 2y agoMe too. Plus, since this is the 'first' article about it on HN, all the others are being closed as duplicates. I feel like this deserves more attention.
- ASalazarMX 2y agoHN is almost my ideal link aggregator, my only nitpick is that flagging is too easy, there's no transparency or accountability. It's not the 90's anymore, we can't solely rely on honor these days.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dang 2y agoUsers flagged it. We can only guess why users flag things, but there are nearly always clues to that in the comments. Now that the threads have all been merged, I think it's fairly clear what the arguments are.
- AceJohnny2 2y agoyep, thanks dang!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- null_investor 2y agoApple is dominated by ruthless managers and is an evil corporation. I'm not surprised. Imagine if you happen to be a neighbor and a disaster happens in the fab. That's just nuts.
- nehal3m 2y agoAll publicly traded companies with a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders will always externalize any cost they can. The problem is bigger than Apple.
- jackjeff 2y agoI don’t know. As a shareholder it sounds like the dumbest move ever. In what universe would it make sense to have a fab so close to an appartment building and vent toxic gas. It’s a PR disaster waiting to happen. Whatever savings you make by avoiding regulation you pay back in fines and reputation damages. What is it they saved here? Could they not fab this in a less populated area and just follow a few more regulations. We’re not talking about a company with razor thin margins. They spent outrageous amounts of money building the spaceship HQ. I genuinely want to understand if this is stupidity or if there’s really a profit incentive that makes “fiduciary” sense.
- Arn_Thor 2y agoWhat reputational damage? I follow tech news very closely and it’s the first I’ve heard of it. A listed corporation’s first instinct (unless it has a conscientious board) is always to try their luck and see what they get away with. You don’t make profits by doing anything other than the absolute legal minimum, and that’s only if someone enforces those rules. Listed companies have proven they cannot be trusted to self regulate, never ever
- dr_kiszonka 2y agoI wish there was a ruling that publicly traded companies' fiduciary responsibility includes public health.
- dinobones 2y agoApple, you have infinite money. Just pay this lady the $50,000,000 she wants so she can move to a nice clean place over in Atherton. And pay your fines to the government and move your fabs to remote areas so this doesn’t happen again. There, problem solved. I’ve saved everyone millions of dollars in litigation fees, time, and now our judiciary system can tackle other problems.
- Afforess 2y ago[flagged]
- profsummergig 2y agoThis seems unusually problematic. A Bhopal Gas Tragedy waiting to happen.
- d--b 2y agoSure, just don't call it a "whoops-a-daisy" when we're talking about severe poisoning of potentially hundreds of people.
- throwaway4good 2y agoI cannot tell if you are joking or not. But it is obvious she is litigating in public until she gets the payoff she wants: https://mastodon.social/@ashleygjovik https://mastodon.social/@ashleygjovik Of course a big corp cannot give in easily to behaviour like that as it would just open the flood gates.
- newaccount74 2y agoA big corp can't give in because then they would have to install proper exhaust filtration and monitoring which would probably cost 10s of millions of dollars and require a lot of additional staff that would have to know what Apple is doing in those facilities. They prefer doing keeping their skunkworks small, and the easiest way to do that is to just install a charcoal filter and call it a day.
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- piyushpr134 2y agoAmericans discovering the real reason why things are made in China
- cjk2 2y agoOne of the many reasons. The biggest reason the last place I worked at that did manufacturing was that there were import tariffs on components but not assemblies so they just built the assemblies in China.
- piyushpr134 2y agoWow: Import tariffs on components and not on assemblies sounds like corruption to me. No policy maker can be this incompetent
- cjk2 2y agoIt's not corruption. It's naive legislation written by idiots and complex HS code manipulation.
- DevKoala 2y agoBiden’s revisions https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...
- cjk2 2y agoI'm not in the US. There are other countries with this problem :)
- sgt 2y agoHow would complaining about this be received in China? I guess you have very few rights.
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- cjk2 2y agoWhile I don't doubt the facts and EPA analysis around the case and the measurements, how many other local residents reported this and are fighting it?
- sigmoid10 2y agoThis is also what I wonder. So far the EPA has found a few faults, but with only one self reported case of humans affected among thousands of potential victims this whole story could still tip towards either "this is bad but all too common" and "this is a gigantic scandal of obscene proportions." The latter one makes for a better news story and twitter threads, but that also doesn't make every suspicion in there true by default.
- user_7832 2y agoIt could be a combination of a few things. Maybe some people aren’t as sensitive as this lady. Maybe some moved out. And possibly many just haven’t spoken up or even are aware of such a factory releasing gasses.
- sigmoid10 2y agoIndeed. But those are a few too many "coulds" for me to jump to any conclusions.
- vineyardmike 2y agoYea I was really surprised reading this that I know a few people who lived in that apartment complex. The complex holds 1800 households, and the whole city has ~50k, so that single complex accounts for 3-4% of Santa Clara’s total households. And only one woman has reported any issues, as far as we know. That said, Santa Clara is basically a giant industrial superfund site already from the semiconductor industry, so I’m sure there are plenty of people being poisoned by the pollution in the area.
- cjk2 2y agoYeah this is not within the realms of even an 0.1% confidence interval. Indistinguishable from chance. Hypothesis should be investigated and then discarded! That doesn't make a good headline though.
- ro_bit 2y agoWhy was the previous discussion flagged?
- user_7832 2y agoCharitably speaking, lots of Apple fans probably didn’t like it. Only Dan or a moderator would be able to see details about the accounts that flagged it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- pmontra 2y agoI asked that question myself for other submissions several times. It happens that I start to write a comment, post it and find that the submission was flagged and disappeared from the HN home page while I was writing. Sometimes they feel like absolutely innocuous submissions. I wish there is an unflag link, not the one to undo one owns flag requests (which happen due to fat fingers and tiny links.)
- greyface- 2y ago> I wish there is an unflag link, not the one to undo one owns flag requests The "vouch" link works like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#cvouch https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#cvouch
- promiseofbeans 2y agoprobably because it's a pdf on dropbox, which can't really be trusted to be legit
- a012 2y agoI may be out of the loop, but I don't understand the negativity towards Dropbox links, what makes it different than other submission of PDF files?
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- user_7832 2y ago> (...) Apple engineer “accidently” turning on lethal fluorine gas. Similarly, another incident, the TEOS leak, was root caused to an Apple engineer accidently installing the gas for a tool “backwards.” Further, less than two weeks following the April 30 2021 phosphine leak, Apple’s manifests included sixty pounds of “vacuum filters contaminated with glass dust,” implying there may have also been a phosphine explosion. What the absolute @#$% is this??? Would I be wrong in assuming this should've made national news but was probably kept low thanks to Apple's deep pockets/connections?
- Afforess 2y agoI like how Apple got the city HazMat to tip them off to the EPA inspectors, personally. Is that a new “best practice?” I am taking notes.
- happosai 2y agoHaving "contacts" in important places does pay off.
- AdamN 2y agoInside industrial settings I would presume stuff like this happens all the time. In fact, people even die sometimes. Even when a refinery blew up in Texas a few years back it barely made the news. On a side note, Fluorine is bad stuff but I believe it doesn't have a long lifespan so any impact would be immediate or not at all
- user_7832 2y agoI'm not surprised that such stuff happens often, I myself know people who've worked in such factories and lost colleagues. What I find odd/unusual is more about how this occurred (occurs?) in an urban area where regulations should've done something. Factory workers working in dangerous conditions and losing their lives is unfortunate, but their effects hurting/killing the general population (a-la Bhopal Gas Tragedy) should not be legally possible.
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- DevKoala 2y agoApple doubling down on the evil. No wonder the stock is up.
- murderfs 2y agoThe author of this has been on a crusade against Apple for years, stemming from an incident that was probably hypochondria. They've outright lied about multiple incidents (see https://twitter.com/shantinix/status/1433297575914971136 https://twitter.com/shantinix/status/1433297575914971136), and I would very strongly doubt any new claims made. For example, a spot check of one of the claims has them currently saying "Still, Gjovik’s limited testing returned results showing a number of the chemicals in use by Apple at ARIA including Acetone, Acetonitrile, Acetaldehyde, Benzene, 1,2-Dichloroethane, Ethanol, Ethylbenzene, Hexane, Isopropanol, Isopropyl toluene, Methylene Chloride, Toluene, and Xylene." But, in 2021 (at https://sfbayview.com/2021/03/i-thought-i-was-dying-my-apartment-was-built-on-toxic-waste/ https://sfbayview.com/2021/03/i-thought-i-was-dying-my-apart...), "I wanted to get some formal data in the brief time before I moved out, so I hired an industrial hygienist to sample the indoor air and some of the topsoil. Despite the $1,555 I had to pay for it, the results were inconclusive."
- Afforess 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoPosting like this will get you banned here. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: your account has unfortunately been repeatedly posting comments with swipes in them. Examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40229264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40229264 (May 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40224510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40224510 (May 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38495066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38495066 (Dec 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35970720 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35970720 (May 2023) That's one of the things the site guidelines specifically ask you not to do, so if you'd please not do any more of that, we'd appreciate it. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit more to heart, we'd be grateful. Note that this also includes "Don't be snarky.".
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- CHB0403085482 2y agoMore details: https://mastodon.social/@ashleygjovik/112668309100333232 https://mastodon.social/@ashleygjovik/112668309100333232
- sgt 2y agoThere should be more strict zoning laws. You can't have industrial processes happening anywhere near homes like these. I thought California was strict on zoning?
- vineyardmike 2y ago“Silicon” Valley was a super-fund site full of contamination long before this was desirable to live in. The semiconductor industry poisoned the valley decades ago. Santa Clara county has more superfund sites than any other county in the US. If there is an issue, it’s that these apartments were built (in ~2018). There are a number of other industrial sites nearby and the building was built in industrial zoning, after agreeing to numerous requirements to clean up the land to make it safe. https://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/getfile?filename=/public%2Fdeliverable_documents%2F3628721475%2FWork%20Notice_Santa%20Clara%20Square%20(4-18-16).pdf https://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/getfile?filename=/public%... https://www.santaclaraca.gov/home/showdocument?id=17071 https://www.santaclaraca.gov/home/showdocument?id=17071
- mcfedr 2y agoIt's funny, mostly your zoning laws seem to create crazy problems, and yet the one actual problem they are supposed to solve and they completely fail
- fxtentacle 2y agoI find it surprising that apparently she's suing Apple not only for dumping toxic chemicals into the air directly next to her apartment, but also for an unrelated case of Apple's security videotaping the women's toilet rooms. That chemical court case seems very strong to me, with multiple indipendent parties having measured the gas in the air. (Edit: and multiple government agencies reporting chemical accidents at Apple) So it doesn't seem like she's trigger happy to sue, which would imply that there might also be merit in her other case. Good thing Apple never had "don't be evil" as their slogan ;)
- canogat 2y agoI recognized her name when this story dropped. She’s been on an Apple vendetta for some time.
- maxehmookau 2y agoAt what point does legitimate whistleblowing become a vendetta?
- stevenbuscemi 2y agoWhen other notable Apple whistleblowers have to file restraining orders against them because Gjovik makes up more lies and then doxxes their family? https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/04/05/appletoo-founders-in-legal-battle-accusing-each-other-of-harassment https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/04/05/appletoo-founders... https://nypost.com/2022/04/03/apple-whistleblower-movement-torn-over-harassment-allegations/ https://nypost.com/2022/04/03/apple-whistleblower-movement-t... https://reason.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/ScarlettvGjovik.pdf https://reason.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/ScarlettvGjovi... Gjovik is self-publishing this for a reason, multiple journalists tried to corroborate her constantly changing story, and when the media interest disappeared she had a w̶e̶l̶l̶-̶p̶u̶b̶l̶i̶c̶i̶s̶e̶d̶ somewhat-infamous-in-Apple-circles meltdown and in an increasingly implausible conspiracy allegation attacked multiple former allies for being out to get her, many of which have remained silent.
- HumblyTossed 2y ago
- IncreasePosts 2y agoSuch credulous people in this thread. I'll keep an open mind, but it seems strange that this lady was an Apple employee and happened to also be the victim. Have other people been identified that suffered similarly to her? Where are their lawsuits? Or is there something special about her health condition, or her specific apartment unit, or something which means only she was susceptible to this?
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- abdellah123 2y agoThis is crazy. I'm ashamed of using Apple devices at home ...
- i5heu 2y agoDoes Apple really owns this Fab? I thought they do almost anything manufacturing wise outsourced like their CNC contractors.
- PROgrammerTHREE 2y agoThey did R&D for Titan and microLED screens and were part of the layoffs in April.
- kazinator 2y agoYes, before you can have a Japanese-like zoning system where you can have factories close to homes, people have to stop being dickheads like this.
- itmm 2y agoMore context about Ashley Gjøvik and her relationship with Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Gj%C3%B8vik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Gj%C3%B8vik
- fifteen1506 2y ago[flagged]
- JSDevOps 2y agoHer YouTube video sounded so fake with the fake coughing and everything perfectly choreographed.
- infecto 2y agoThis person seems unhinged and not of sound mind. I had to skim through this…article because it jumped around too much. The problem is really most of her examples seem like she is forcing the connection. Like her 3am dying spells and one of the times it happened her VOC measurements went up. It could very well be there is an issue with the plant exhaust but it could also be the land the apartment was built on or any number of issues with the new construction.
- eqvinox 2y agoWas looking for a better source (or better data), found this: "Emergency Permit for Treatment of Hazardous Waste, Apple, Inc., Sunnyvale, California" https://ceqanet.opr.ca.gov/2022120706 https://ceqanet.opr.ca.gov/2022120706 … but it's for half a liter of some weird shit that seems to primarily be a fire hazard(?)
- Infinity315 2y agoThere is a disappointing amount of character slander rather than refutation of the author's claims happening on this thread. The foremost trustworthy party is the EPA. Note, I am not a lawyer or anyone who could professionally give an opinion on this.* The most egregious violation the author purports Apple did is the illegal venting of hazardous chemicals. IMHO, the most plausible evidence supporting the author's claim can be found in the (redacted) EPA report in observation #11.[1] My understanding is that waste streams (hazardous materials being vented into the environment) must be accounted for in order to accurately calculate how often you must change carbon filters (called breakthrough time in the report) and that carbon filters lose efficacy as hazardous gasses are passed through it. Anyways, the report found that Apple did not account for all the waste they were putting through the filters and thus could not accurately assess the "breakthrough time" of the filters. There is a plausible case that could be made that a filter had reached its "breakthrough time" -- potentially leaking hazardous gases into the environment. This reportedly has been occurring since atleast* Dec 2020, which could be around the time the author moved in which was also 2020 (unspecified range). 1. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/312oqvretg7yyhfx0ohx4/AGZduVXs0_1geqIyi0NA9nE?e=3&preview=2024_04_30_RCRA_Insp_Report_REPORT_Apple_3250_Scott_Redacted.pdf&rlkey=3aa2tw15ek3trqlbdh7pw9erh&st=4b364mkx&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/312oqvretg7yyhfx0ohx4/AGZduVX...
- cyanydeez 2y agothe coincidence between the author and the "atleast" date simply means there's not enough evidence before that date. Dealing with EPA and other pollution control agencies will tell you very much they dont want to get into these situations because it makes them look bad. It likely was happening way before this and the EPA could likely pinpoint the exact date based on simple log entries, but they won't stick their neck out farther than corroboration goes.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
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- threeseed 2y agoI wish she would just state the facts as it makes it hard to read. For example, she says that EPA typically arrives unannounced but because the Apple EH&S team were present this is indicative of some conspiracy to allow Apple time to cover-up issues. But this is just her opinion with a more logical explanation being that Apple Security simply contacted the EH&S team when the EPA arrived at the front door.
- water-data-dude 2y agoReading the screenshots, it sounds like they showed up with the fire dept., which was going to do some sort of unrelated inspection. Apple wasn’t informed that they were going to be there, the author even highlights “EPA’s participation in the inspection was unannounced”. I’d assume the EH&S team was there for the (expected) fire department inspection
- ru552 2y agoShe's not a reporter. She was fired from Apple for breaking an NDA. This isn't the first time she's made sensational claims against Apple.
- mschuster91 2y agoIssues surrounding the author's personality aside (that have been raised enough in other threads, and quite a few of them in a tone I'd say borders on unethical): in Germany, we have strict zoning rules for heavy industry - some particularly bad polluters have up to 1500m of required distance to residential use [1], even if the area they're planning on operating in is already zoned industrial. Wonder how Apple got approved to even construct this facility so close to residential (or, if Apple was there prior to residential usage, why residential construction was allowed so close to them), in California of all places that's even known here in Germany to have really strict zoning requirements. [1] https://recht.nrw.de/lmi/owa/br_bes_text?anw_nr=1&gld_nr=2&ugl_nr=283&bes_id=2069&val=2069&ver=7&sg=0&aufgehoben=J&menu=1 https://recht.nrw.de/lmi/owa/br_bes_text?anw_nr=1&gld_nr=2&u...
- BoredPositron 2y ago[flagged]
- camillomiller 2y agoYour comment gets the cake. The guy just expressed surprise at how zoning works in California and he is absolutely right. Your comment sounds like you didn’t read through.
- BoredPositron 2y ago[flagged]
- dehugger 2y agoWhat conspiracy? You're really reading into things a bit much.
- dang 2y agoIf you continue to break the HN guidelines we will ban you. I had to warn you about this just a few days ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40740809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40740809), and you've been doing it for years. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38286445 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38286445 (Nov 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35631861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35631861 (April 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35619557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35619557 (April 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33885502 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33885502 (Dec 2022) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12619976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12619976 (Oct 2016) https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- camillomiller 2y ago[flagged]
- nwsm 2y ago[flagged]
- camillomiller 2y agoI am actually very critical of Apple in what I write, being European and all. Your comment is offensive and a personal attack. What I was referring to is that the woman reporting the case to the EPA and making unproven allegation about Apple conspiring to cover up their mistakes is someone who has legal history with the company. @dang, I am constantly reprimanded about expressing strong opinions here, but that's alright to get brigaded instead?
- adolph 2y agoCould you walk folks through about how you find noting potential conflicts of interest as "offensive and personal?" I don't quite follow as I'm from the goose-gander school of things that are good for. Disclosure: I have used a variety of Apple products since the mid-1990s. Also, I have participated in an environmental coverup: "Private! Put sand over that JP8 you spilt! You are holding up the whole lager! Yes sergeant!"
- dang 2y agoWhoa - please don't cross into personal attack in HN threads. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- cool_dude85 2y agoThis is an EPA report, presumably they do not base their findings upon any beef a whistleblower may have. And, not knowing more about the story as you seem to, she claims her beef is based on the fact that she got sick from gases Apple was venting from this same facility. At least from what I saw on Twitter, this EPA report, in some sense, is the beef.
- Teever 2y agoWhy is it so hard for companies to just do the right thing? Like it isn't a lack of resources for Apple, it isn't a lack of education or safety awareness. It's wilfull disregarding of the health of innocent strangers. People need to go to jail for this.
- voidUpdate 2y agoIt's hard for companies to do the right thing because the wrong thing is cheaper, and cheaper is king in business
- _Algernon_ 2y agoIn case it's not a rhetorical question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
- jjtheblunt 2y agoI worked as an engineer in Apple for several years in a core division, and there was extensive training, and not perfunctory, about being ethical and doing the right thing. It was a very serious core principle. Because of that, this case really looks like a mistake, not willful disregard, when I consider all we were trained in earnest back then. It seems the EPA found no violation, and Apple learned someone had failed to change filters as frequently as needed.
- linuxftw 2y agoThis is just one small facility in the US. Imagine the damage being done world wide where there are fewer regulations and and even fewer inspectors. We're outsourcing our pollution. Is this the same person that wrote about how their apartment complex was constructed on an un-mitigated FEMA site? I think she should move to a more rural location, many cities have this kind of contamination.
- millzlane 2y agoMoving away won't fix the problem. As someone who lives in a large city, The response to companies destroying our environment shouldn't be move away. I'm not even a "tree hugger" and this pisses me off. We only have us to rely on. Fixing and preventing this issue doesn't seem like a hard decision to make.
- linuxftw 2y agoI meant for her personal well being. Some people are much more sensitive to chemical exposure than others.
- foobarqux 2y ago[flagged]
- EE84M3i 2y agoA quick search didn't find anything. Any links to further info?
- foobarqux 2y agohttps://blog.esghound.com/p/spacex-violates-the-clean-water-act https://blog.esghound.com/p/spacex-violates-the-clean-water-... Note that this is separate from the stormwater issue that people will try to misdirect about
- infecto 2y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Gj%C3%B8vik https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Gj%C3%B8vik Helpful context on the validity of this heavily editorialized site. Seems like Apple definitely is not in the right here but very unclear if it has anything to do with this persons claims. If you follow her history of forming complaints it is hard to take her serious as most of her complaints get dropped and these are complaints filed against different agencies.
- jjtheblunt 2y agoShe also filed a 650 page complaint which so irritated the legal system that new case law was formed to bound the permissible lengths. It seems she originally got fired by Apple, where she was a product manager, for leaking NDAed info. It also seems she's been on an anti-apple tear since. Personally, I worked as an engineer in Apple for several years, and it was by far the most ethically run and conscientiously run place I've ever seen, so her sequence of Apple complaints originates in a non core division, so is not like the engineering core world I was in, but sets off my "wait, what?" sense honed from experience.
- ajdude 2y agoHere's the whole thread "unrolled", including the EPA report: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1805006150410162322.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1805006150410162322.html
- gedy 2y ago[flagged]
- HumblyTossed 2y agoThis is just another form of victim blaming.
- gedy 2y ago[flagged]
- HumblyTossed 2y ago> Not really, Yes, really, it is.
- kirth_gersen 2y agoFound the shill, folks. Thanks for your terrible take, friend. This lady is negative about Apple because they literally poisoned her.
- jsnell 2y agoAs far as I can tell, their original complaints[0] were about the Apple office they worked at, not about an Apple facility near their apartment. It is quite incredible that they've identified Apple as poisoning them by multiple different methods at different places. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Gj%C3%B8vik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Gj%C3%B8vik
- PROgrammerTHREE 2y agoHer other claims have all been dismissed, so she needs a new one
- HumblyTossed 2y agoI love how anything negative to Apple gets buried with the quickness. They can do no wrong it seems.
- dang 2y agoPlease don't post low-quality overgeneralizations to HN. There are plenty of anti- stories about every $BigCo.
- dang 2y agoCan anyone find the OP on epa.gov? That would be preferable to a dropbox.com link. We merged half a dozen of these threads. Related URLs follow. If there are others, let me know here and I can add them. https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1805006150410162322 https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1805006150410162322 and https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1805006150410162322.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1805006150410162322.html https://mastodon.social/@ashleygjovik/112668309100333232/ https://mastodon.social/@ashleygjovik/112668309100333232/ https://www.ashleygjovik.com/3250scott.html https://www.ashleygjovik.com/3250scott.html
- newzisforsukas 2y agoHere is the facility: https://echo.epa.gov/detailed-facility-report?fid=110001168254 https://echo.epa.gov/detailed-facility-report?fid=1100011682... Maybe the document is from a FOIA request or something similar (and therefore not public)? > The US EPA notified her they finalized the report but are currently unable to share it with her as Apple apparently declared the report of their (assumed) numerous environmental violations is Apple Confidential. Gjovik has a pending FOIA request as well.
- PROgrammerTHREE 2y agoIt's probably not been uploaded to their docs yet
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- settsu 2y agoNot that it should matter, but it seems impossible to conclude anything from the publicly available information and neither party seems interested in building a coherent narrative that strengthens their position. And, like it or not, if an argument relies on confusion (especially if intended to bring the other party's credibility into question with the general public) then that argument can easily appear specious.
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- gtmitchell 2y agoAs a chemist who has actually done micro fabrication work, this reads to me like a classic case of a non-chemistry company trying to do chemistry R&D and finding out it’s a lot more complicated to follow all the rules than they thought it would be. Robust chemical safety systems (both equipment, procedures, and employees) are expensive to implement and maintain, and they don’t scale downward easily. Companies doing small-scale production or R&D tend to have the worst practices. That said, the findings in this EPA report don’t seem terrible, just indicative of a sloppy small-scale operation. Finding labeling issues is the lowest of low hanging fruit for any sort of chemical inspector, and Apple not being able to manage even that is just sad.
- PROgrammerTHREE 2y agoThey don't do chip fabrication there, they make device screens: https://www.siliconvalley.com/2018/03/19/apple-secretly-developing-screens-in-unmarked-santa-clara-facility-report/ https://www.siliconvalley.com/2018/03/19/apple-secretly-deve...
- wewtyflakes 2y agoPage 22 indicates there is some sort of semiconductor process at the facility: > "EPA observed that the sign posted on Solvent Tool 8-113 (B(4)) in Apple’s B(4) Area needs to be updated to remove the chemical “B(4)” from the posted sign, which according to Apple is no longer being used in the facility’s semiconductor process."
- PROgrammerTHREE 2y agomicroLED screens have microLEDs attached to them, the Bloomberg article states that the electronics parts are made at their Taiwan factory
- PROgrammerTHREE 2y agoUhh https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.417952/gov.uscourts.cand.417952.76.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41... Ashley Gjovik's lawsuit against Apple claims that Apple broke into her home in three different states, intercepted her home internet, follow her in unmarked vehicles, threatened to mail her a severed head, and bugged her apartment. This reads like a meth-induced psychosis
- Havoc 2y agoRegardless of the merits in general why would Apple do anything chemical in a residential area at all? They’re not exactly poor and land a little bit out is usually cheaper
- Reason077 2y agoIt's close to Apple's home base in Cupertino, and this is more of an R&D facility than an actual factory. Apple will have smart employees working there that live in the area and who aren't easily replaceable.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- icco 2y agoI mean this is bad, but also there are silicon fabs all over the bay area, and have been for decades. Hence the whole "silicon valley" thing.
- josefritzishere 2y ago[flagged]