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We recently started using Waymo more often: - Quality of Lyft and Uber rides have gone down significantly. - Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You
by tanvach 2y ago
We recently started using Waymo more often:
- Quality of Lyft and Uber rides have gone down significantly.
- Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You know what you'll get.
- AC always works and not up to the whim of the driver.
- No chatty driver to disturb our sleeping baby.
Negatives:
- Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber.
- Pick up and drop off tend to be a small walk from requested locations.
Forgot one more positive - you can choose a soothing music play list in the car and it automatically resumes in the next ride. Small but really nice detail when traveling with a baby.
- perfectstorm 2y agodo you have to tip the 'driver'? jokes aside, i would be happy to take them once the expand to SFO region so i can have a consistent experience.
- tanvach 2y agoWorth trying to sign up now. The waitlist takes a while.
- Karrot_Kream 2y agoIt's not on a waitlist in SF anymore, Waymo is just open.
- tanvach 2y agoInteresting, my wife was still on waitlist in SF last week.
- vineyardmike 2y agoI’d love to take it to the airport, but I imagine it’ll be a mess trying to pull up and park at departures. It’s already incredibly chaotic with the way humans are, and I don’t expect they’ll even pretend to extend any curtesy to a robot. Maybe I’m wrong though? I think they go to the airport in phoenix, I just haven’t heard any reports on the experience.
- ra7 2y agoAllowing Waymo at SFO is a political mess because the airport owned by the city and the city hates robotaxis. Waymo did apply for a permit to operate at SFO, but were denied.
- homefree 2y agoThat’s annoying - I hope it gets worked out, that’s the last bit I need to take Waymos exclusively.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> it’ll be a mess trying to pull up and park at departures I’ve taken it to and from the airport at Phoenix. Pick-up was an in-airport light-rail station to the first stop. Drop-off was right to the curb late night.
- Me1000 2y ago> Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber. I found that to be true as well, but when you factor in the tip to the driver they come out to more or less the same price.
- mistercheph 2y ago> No chatty driver to disturb our sleeping baby San Fransisco slave-owning class misanthropy on display. I'm sorry that the poor tried to talk to you instead of shutting up, and performing his digi-task without disturbing your innocent baby. Is it any wonder that the same upper-middle class NPC's that treat human beings like machines also (in error) dream of a future where machines will replace human beings?
- tdb7893 2y agoLmao I can't tell if this is satire or not but calling people NPCs always reminds me of this XKCD I once had up in my cubicle. https://xkcd.com/610/ https://xkcd.com/610/
- dang 2y agoYikes, you can't attack another user like that here. We have to ban accounts that do, so please don't do it again. While I have you: could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait generally? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- firloop 2y agoA rarely discussed negative to Waymo is that they drive slower than human drivers. Anecdotally they can be 10-25% slower than the rest of traffic, and it's not uncommon to see human drivers do unsafe moves to pass a Waymo.
- IamLoading 2y agoit boggles my mind. why this isnt talked more.
- tanvach 2y agoThat's quite true, but still surprisingly human like to me when compared to, say, Tesla FSD. It will also take longer to call one due to less supply. If we want nice, relaxing ride with no time pressure then we call a Waymo. Uber is still our go to if we are in a rush.
- Karrot_Kream 2y agoHonestly as a cyclist who takes Waymo, all the Waymos I've seen are much nicer to cyclists than any human driver. Most human drivers in SF either buzz past the 3 ft legal limit going 15 mph over (good luck when their mirror taps you at 40 mph) to try and overtake the cyclist or they'll just edge the cyclist out any time there's space to merge into the lane. Waymos usually give cyclists the whole lane comfortably and take time to merge out properly. (I've read comments that if you're on a skateboard this isn't true but I've never used a skateboard in SF so I don't know much about the experience.) Sometimes I wish I could load my bike into a Waymo. I hit a flat yesterday and left my replacement tube at home and it would have been so much nicer if I could have loaded my bike into the car and gotten a ride home.
- TigeriusKirk 2y agoI'm curious why they can't pick up and drop off at exact locations, as long as the location is in their operating boundaries.
- throwaway48476 2y agoThey should have flashing lights and stop in the middle of the road like school busses do.
- wanderingstan 2y agoIn my experience they are very strict about finding a “safe” place to pick up and drop off, which often means turning onto a small side street or looking for a gap in parked cars. They won’t block traffic like a Lyft/Uber driver might.
- crazygringo 2y ago> They won’t block traffic like a Lyft/Uber driver might. Wow, then I don't know how they'd ever expand to NYC. In most areas there's no such thing as a "safe place" that doesn't block traffic. If there are sides of the road that aren't traffic (or bicycle) lanes, then they're taken up by parking. Taxis, Ubers, delivery trucks -- literally everything just stops in the street (or bicycle lane) and traffic temporarily goes around it.
- mupuff1234 2y agoThey'll just have to change the behavior, I assume the current behavior is just out of caution not some technical limit.
- crazygringo 2y agoIt's because it's illegal to double-park. Everyone in NYC does it because they have to, but Waymo is obeying the law.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
- ndesaulniers 2y agoYou take ride share with a baby? How does that work, with regards to car seats?
- tanvach 2y agoWe take an infant car seat and use the European belt routing (or if that fails due to short belts in American cars, American belt routing) to secure to the back seat.
- semi-extrinsic 2y agoWTF belt routing? Don't you guys have Isofix over there?
- tanvach 2y agoWe do, and I have the base with isofix in my own car.
- eyeareque 2y agoDoesn’t the price end up being the same if you factor in tips with Lyft?
- RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 2y ago> - Consistently [...] clean [...] I don't expect this to hold true once Waymo become generally available, alas.
- dventimi 2y agoI do. It'll be easier to keep the fleet on a cleaning schedule, and won't be left to the whims of individuals.
- billjings 2y agoI have a good friend who's a Lyft driver. According to him, all drivers are rated on cleanliness by passengers; if you're dinged for a weird smell, there are lasting financial consequences (even if it was for reasons outside of your control, e.g. using a Lyft provided rental while repairing from a traffic accident). We'll see how Waymo handles it! It will definitely be Waymo's problem to solve, though.
- RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 2y agoI think the difference is that as an individual driver you have an incentive to keep your car clean, so that Lyft continues to dispatch riders to you. For Waymo the selective pressure is less direct and also spread across their entire fleet. They can accept a level of dirtiness, given some probability that the rider would reject the car x cost of rider requesting a (partial) refund x etc. etc. More cynically, there are simply too many people that won't take care of "public" property. If every 3rd rider (exaggerated for rhetorical purposes) trashes the car, it's gonna be dirty no matter what.
- klipt 2y agoAssuming the cars have internal cameras they should be able to surcharge riders who trash the cars.
- deleted 2y ago
- ra7 2y ago> Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber. Waymo says they are a premium service like Uber Black because they have nice cars (Jaguar I-Pace), plus the novelty and safety of being driverless. They’re not trying to be competitive with Uber X or shared rides for in their current form.
- gnicholas 2y agoHow nice is the backseat of a Waymo compared to an Accord?
- paulryanrogers 2y agoIt has been explained to me that cars are an extension of ones personality, a social signal, and a hobby. So for some apparently what kind one rides in is significant.
- michaelt 2y agoI'm pretty sure I don't get any "social signal" from using fancy taxis. I think you've got to own the vehicle for that to happen. Much like buying a museum ticket to see a famous painting isn't comparable to owning the same painting.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jyunwai 2y agoSome museums do try to frame memberships as something that is part of one's identity. A museum in my city sells annual memberships with a physical card with nice artwork on it, discounts on tickets (including a discount for a friend), and an invitation to a monthly evening event at the museum that is rather quite nice. I haven't seen Uber or Lyft effectively go down the route of having their service be a part of a user's identity. But Waymo could make an effort, if they wanted to: they use a distinctive car model, and they could offer incentives to make carpooling with Waymo cheaper (to try and make a user 'known' in their social circle for using the service).
- asphodel_gray 2y ago10%? you’re lucky. Every time I check the app it’s usually twice the price of an Uber or Lyft.
- fhub 2y ago> You can choose a soothing music play list in the car and it automatically resumes in the next ride Oh wow! There is a non zero chance that was implemented because of some feedback I provided as a trusted tester many months ago. I napped my son in them a lot when they were free and just spent my time thinking up things they should do and reporting them in app.
- ssl-3 2y agoMan. My daughter's head would sometimes detach from her body and fly around the room by itself. Strapping her down in a car seat and taking her for a drive usually rectified the situation. I look forward to a future where this process can become more automated. (/s, sorta)
- KennyBlanken 2y agoIt is automated. Has been for many decades. Hit up ebay and search for "swyngomatic." There are ones that are spring-powered and more modern ones use a couple of d-cells (or a wall wart if you're enterprising.) That and a white noise machine (set it low, their ear canals are very straight so they're sensitive to noise, although babies get used to noise around them given time and sleep through it, which is more practical / useful. You can also just do what people have done for tens of thousands of years: wrap your kid against your body and go about your business. Putting your kid in a car (self driving or not) is putting them in the most dangerous situation they could possibly be in - car crashes are the number one cause of death for kids (in the US.)
- ssl-3 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- willcipriano 2y ago> Putting your kid in a car (self driving or not) is putting them in the most dangerous situation they could possibly be in - car crashes are the number one cause of death for kids (in the US.) It would follow that since no children die each year playing in active volcanos that's the safest thing they could possibly do. Kindergartens should be filled with magma.
- paxys 2y agoFrom my experience prices for Waymo are at least double that of an equivalent Lyft/Uber ride and wait times are usually 20+ minutes. It is a great novelty but nowhere near where it needs to be to handle real scale.
- laluser 2y agoThis won’t last long. Waymo has a treasure chest waiting to be deployed as soon as they start expanding more.
- crazygringo 2y agoI genuinely expect that there will be a point at which manufacturing becomes the bottleneck. That's going to be a lot of cars to build. I really wonder if and when they expand to a lot more car manufacturers and models, just to avoid supply chain issues.
- slimsag 2y agoI live 15 minutes from downtown Phoenix, and it took them 2 years to expand to my location. Over 4 years after Waymo launched beta testing here.. Waymo cannot take me on the freeway (backstreets only) Waymo cannot go to the entire city of Peoria, Surprise, Goodyear.. Waymo cannot go to the entire western half of the state. If you live 30 minutes from the downtown city centre, there is a 30% chance Waymo can go there. Waymo serves higher-end areas only today (Scottsdale, Tempe, Chandler) - if you live in a poorer area, no Waymo for you. I have family who lives in Scottsdale and Surprise, Waymo can't take me there. My dentist is less than a mile from my house, Waymo can't take me there - but can take me to a fashion mall in chandler. Is it better than Uber/Lyft? Experience wise, sure, but their snail's pace expansion is disheartening. Not to mention the freeway issue.
- lern_too_spel 2y agoIt will be more profitable for them to deploy cars to new cities at a premium than to deploy them to existing cities to capture more of those cities' markets. We won't see affordable driverless taxi service for many years unless competition appears. After Uber and Cruise imploded, I don't have much hope for that.
- acchow 2y agoDoes that 10% markup account for the Uber/lyft driver tip?
- jessriedel 2y agoUber/Lyft drivers only get tips on 15-30% of rides, so tips are like ~3% of revenue. If you choose to tip, then prices are going to be very similar between Waymo and Uber/Lyft.
- thesandlord 2y agoIn my experience, after tip Lyft/Uber are more expensive. The exception is during surges when Waymo's price shoots up like crazy.
- MaxHoppersGhost 2y agoYou guys are tipping your Uber drivers? IIRC you couldn’t even tip until a few years ago.
- dventimi 2y agoWell, you can now, and I do. It's hard enough living in California and especially San Francisco, and I believe being in the service industry here is no picnic. Tipping is the least I can do.
- abecedarius 2y agoI know this feels right, but introducing tip culture into a market currently free of it is bad. Where there's a norm of tipping, it doesn't make the servers more money than where there is not; what you should expect it to do is to decrease the quoted price and increase the variance of income to the servers. And incidentally increase the mental overhead for everyone, increase the artificiality of interactions, etc.
- dventimi 2y ago> I know this feels right, but introducing tip culture into a market currently free of it is bad I couldn't possibly agree with this less. My view is that "it depends." Level salaries in San Francisco and I'll consider not tipping. Until then, I'm comfortable with my choices.
- lopkeny12ko 2y agoSorry, but any argument that basically boils down to "it's better because I don't have to talk to a driver" is not a real argument. Drivers are people too. Nevermind the fact that you are cheering for people to lose their jobs.
- schoen 2y agoWould you accept any historical development that reduced demand for some kind of labor (or human interaction) as potentially positive? There are a lot of those. (I'm happy to hear if the answer is "yes".) For example, most kinds of shops were (like jewelry stores today) apparently historically not self-service, so you had to ask the shopkeeper for every item individually, and the shopkeeper would have to retrieve it for you. Maybe a more direct analogy is that you once had to ask human operators to complete telephone calls for you, and gradually this was replaced with automated switches and direct-dial systems. That has benefits and drawbacks, but I think I appreciate it quite a bit. Do you think it would be better if that change hadn't happened?
- lopkeny12ko 2y agoThis is not a reasonable comparison. In Tesla's model, you buy a Tesla, and allow it to operate as a robotaxi when you're not using it. It generates income passively for you. The technology has introduced automation that might have displaced your job responsibility but not your means of generating income. In Waymo's model, you have completely displaced both the job itself and the means of generating income. This is a strict lose-lose for everyone except Google, who reaps the profit.
- Dylan16807 2y agoWhy is it not a reasonable comparison? Automated telephone switching fits the latter pattern. The job and the income went away. So the question is valid, would you prefer automated telephone switching was never deployed?
- senordevnyc 2y agoPutting aside the fact that Tesla's robotaxi model will likely never actually ship, I don't see how you're not displacing a driver's job by operating your car as a robotaxi instead of letting it sit idle.
- more_corn 2y agoI had trouble with it not wanting to drop me where I asked, or wanting to pull over or wanting to let me out. Never again.
- homefree 2y agoThey’re amazing, I only take Waymo in SF now and will do the same when possible on the peninsula.
- Arete314159 2y agoHow are the starts / stops? Jerky? I have c-spine issues. That's my main concern. Why are they more expensive? I hoped they would be cheaper without a driver to compensate.
- markerz 2y agoExtremely smooth! I can't comment on the c-spine issues but I'd argue that it's the smoothest driver I've ever experienced. Surely they have some math in their AI driving code that clamps acceleration and jerkiness. It's NOTHING like Tesla Full Self Driving, which I find to be incredibly jerky for both steering and acceleration.
- senordevnyc 2y agoWhy are they more expensive? Likely because they're not pricing based on their costs, but rather what the market will bear. Although they have a lot of R&D to recoup, so that's a cost.
- dventimi 2y agoAlso, perhaps it's a consequence of limited supply. If the SF fleet is still just 250 cars that seems quite small to me for a city with a lot of demand for ride services.
- whimsicalism 2y agomuch smoother than the sf uber teslas that all have jerky regenerative braking on
- aprilthird2021 2y agoYou are using a product before enshittification begins, of course it's much nicer. When it's been 28 quarters of general availability of Wayno and profits need to keep growing faster than before, they'll get dirty, the AC will stop being fixed, they'll start getting flats / engine trouble, etc. in the middle of the drive. Enjoy it while it lasts. Be sure you move quickly to the next new thing before this one goes downhill too :/
- diebeforei485 2y ago> - Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You know what you'll get. - AC always works and not up to the whim of the driver. How much of the cars being clean, quiet, and having HVAC working is just because it's new? A few years down the line the cars will be old (until they're replaced) and won't be as clean or quiet or have reliable AC. It will probably become like aircraft where they prioritize maintenance of safety-critical features but not so much the seat comfort. There are lots of upsides to not having a driver in the car, but I wouldn't count on the cars always being nice.
- tanvach 2y agoThe cars are operated by Waymo, so I have hope it’ll be more well maintained across the fleet.
- reedciccio 2y agoMy guess is that AC is off because keeping it on increases fuel consumption and that cuts into the driver's tiny profit margins.
- dventimi 2y ago> A few years down the line the cars will be old Maybe. Then again, maybe not.
- diebeforei485 2y agoA car that's been around a few years is old by definition.
- dventimi 2y agoHard disagree. A car that has been around for three years is not old.
- bushbaba 2y ago> - Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber. Isn't the whole point of Waymo is that it'll be cheaper than a human driver?
- epolanski 2y agoThe point is that it's more profitable for who runs the taxi company. Eventually price will always be what people are willing to pay. I bet what that in a decade the price will be identical to (disappearing) human drivers and then gouged higher. It's depressing how focused we are on the wrong things for cities and planet, self driving taxis rather than quality public transport. We are destined to extinction and we deserve it.
- darby_nine 2y agoWait how do they justify having an even more expensive ride with fewer people to pay? The whole point of cutting the driver out is to save on cost, without that the entire project is no better than uber or lyft (which already overcharges by an arm and a leg)
- mensetmanusman 2y agoInitially, automation is always more expensive than cheap labor. That’s why we don’t automate things until human labor becomes more expensive than the ease of automation.
- darby_nine 2y agoTo some extent this is true, but most of the automation I've witnessed in my lifetime led with direct cost savings. My main conclusion is that waymo's customers are more likely to be scared by other humans than they are to be price sensitive.
- lolinder 2y ago> most of the automation I've witnessed in my lifetime led with direct cost savings Direct cost savings to the business or to the customer? Waymo has been operating at an incredible loss for a very long time. They now have a product that people are willing to pay for and, in fact, find to be more comfortable—from OP's description it's basically a luxury Uber. Further, they expect to not be the only autonomous taxi system forever, competitors will eventually catch up. Given that, I think it's only rational for them to operate at very high margins for as long as they can before competition drives the prices down. They probably won't come anywhere close to recouping the loss in that interval, but they'll get a head start on it.
- josephg 2y agoYep. They also probably don’t have that many waymo cars yet. I’m sure eventually they hope to blanket the city but for now, I assume they price rides such that supply = demand. If it was so cheap that everyone ordered them, you’d never get a car. That would be a really bad experience for customers and they would bounce. It’s incredibly hard to get someone to try your service a second time if their first experience was negative.
- nojvek 2y agoEasier to scale and make tech cheaper than humans cheaper. Waymo just doesn’t want the backlash of them replacing human jobs right now. Slightly expensive than humans for a premium consistent service is a good play. Kudos to consistent execution for Waymo. Wish we could say the same for Tesla.