14 ms·

Cancel Adobe if you are a creative under NDA with your clients

651 points by wanderingmind 2y ago

Kelteseth 2y ago
And you will get screwed a second time, because you have to pay the cancellation fee. > Should you cancel after 14 days, you'll be charged a lump sum amount of 50% of your remaining contract obligation and your service will continue until the end of that month's billing period.
- immibis 2y ago
  Lawyer up! They unilaterally changed the contract, that probably invalidates that clause in any sane country (so, not USA). They might even have to pay you the cancellation fee, or more.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    It may even in the us, but a lawyer will cost you more than paying the fee. Though there is a class action in the us if enough people cancle - the lawyers get the cancle fee and you get $.25
    - ghufran_syed 2y ago
      you can almost certainly do a chargeback on your credit card, then they have to come after you, and their legal costs will hugely outweigh any payment they are seeking
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        No, they’ll just sell the debt for peanuts to a collection agency, who will ruin your credit.
      - bluGill 2y ago
        Check your credit card terms of service carefully. Cards do have consumer protection, but generally it isn't about this type of situation. If you owe the fee then it is fraud to do a chargeback and you can get into legal trouble (though odds are as the other poster said: they will just send you to collections and it will hit your credit report). I agree that this type of change to contract terms is not acceptable, but unfortunately you need a lawyer to fight it.
    - gradientsrneat 2y ago
      Adobe's fine print contains a Binding Arbitration Agreement and Class Action Waiver, which would prevent class action in the U.S. if you didn't follow the instructions to opt out. Similar clauses, some without opt-outs, have proliferated widely throughout the tech industry. Most notably, Windows added them to most of their products shortly before the release of Windows 8. Interestingly, GitHub does not have these clauses yet.
    - immibis 2y ago
      In some countries, the loser pays for both lawyers (and there are rules about how much money that can be).
  - belter 2y ago
    > Lawyer up! Did their previous contract said they could unilaterally change the contract? :-)
    - hajile 2y ago
      That kind of clause won't stand up in court and they know it.
      - belter 2y ago
        https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html "1.5 Updates to Terms... ...We may make changes to the Terms from time to time, and if we do, we will notify you by revising the date at the top of the Terms and, in some cases, we may provide you with additional notice. Adobe will not make changes that have the effect of imposing additional fees or charges without providing additional notice. Any such changes will not apply to any dispute between you and Adobe arising prior to the date on which we posted the revised Terms incorporating such changes, or when the Terms otherwise become effective. You should look at the Terms regularly..." "...Unless otherwise noted, the amended Terms will be effective immediately, and your continued use of our Services and Software confirm your acceptance of the changes. If you do not agree to the amended Terms, you must stop using our Services and Software and, if applicable, cancel your subscription..."
        hajile 2y ago
        You can add anything you want to a contract, but that doesn't mean the courts will uphold it.
        belter 2y ago
        How did the contract made it through Adobe Legal Dept?
        philistine 2y ago
        I’m trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You’re the one that has to walk through it.
- yellow_lead 2y ago
  You can get around this by switching your subscription (free of charge), then canceling.
- dathinab 2y ago
  I think your theoretically have the right for a free out of bad cancellation if a provider changes their TOS in a way where it's reasonable to argue it affects the usability of the product for you. At least in the EU.
  - jerf 2y ago
    Common law countries in general as well. You're not supposed to be able to rewrite a contract arbitrarily, nor can you simply write into a contract that you can rewrite it at will. In common law, that theoretically makes it not a contract in the first place. For that reason, if you raise the right kind of fuss and raise it to their legal team, the legal team will almost certainly let you out for free rather than run the risk of getting their contract invalidated to any degree in a court of law. I speak here generally in such countries, not just for Adobe. However, this is theory. The rule of law is generally declining in the West. Your mileage may vary in any specific attempt.
ale42 2y ago
To what do these conditions apply? To any content edited within Adobe software, or to content stored in Adobe cloud?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ergonaught 2y ago
  It's from their general terms. It does not clearly restrict itself to items stored on their servers. See... 2.2 Our Access to Your Content. 4.1 Content. “Content” means any text, information, communication, or material, such as audio files, video files, electronic documents, or images, that you upload, import into, embed for use by, or create using the Services and Software. 4.2 Licenses to Your Content. Solely for the purposes of operating or improving the Services and Software, you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free sublicensable, license, to use, reproduce, publicly display, distribute, modify, create derivative works based on, publicly perform, and translate the Content. ...and so forth https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html They're unlikely to actually want to go out of business or spark major revisions to law, so they'll presumably "clarify". (As they've attempted to do I guess.)
nicce 2y ago
How many users need to leave before enshittification ends? I guess that enough users still simply cannot afford to leave and nothing ever changes.
- immibis 2y ago
  History suggests that it never ends. Platforms can bleed users but the enshittification only stops when their owners actually go bankrupt, get acquired by another company, and then get dropped for lack of interest.
  - xattt 2y ago
    Once an executive is poisoned with an enshittification mindset, anything they touch moving forward will (probably) have a lingering smell of pig shit. Less crappy services will come with generational change. Some young entrepreneurs who are not yet jaded will choose social capital and goodwill over financial gain. As an aside, I miss the days when you could go to some hole-in-the-wall restaurant and get a genuinely good meal. I always thought this was because the owner probably glowed with pride that he was feeding people and that people like him/her.
- Devasta 2y ago
  I used to work for an insurance company that is a F500, they had thousands of mobile phone insurance policies for £2.99 a month in the UK that were running for decades. We never got calls, we never had claims, 99.999% of the customers had completely forgotten the policies even existed, diligently insuring their Nokia 3210's. Every software company is banking on this happening for them. Enshittification will never end, sure they lose customers but eventually they can get their costs down to zero and its all more or less free money after that.
  - h2odragon 2y ago
    Says a lot about our world, that such business plans are the most desirable.
srameshc 2y ago
Side question: how good are Affinity Designer & Photo as a replacement for Adobe tools ?
- gyanreyer 2y ago
  I really really like Affinity. I'm not a pro but they offer all of the tools I would possibly need in a much better designed package compared to open source alternatives like gimp. Adobe has more bells and whistles like AI, but I don't need that. And I'm very happy to support their no-subscription model, it's very refreshing.
- gizajob 2y ago
  Totally awesome.
- fidotron 2y ago
  Not close. They’re utterly inconsistent and glitchy which makes using them in a hurry a total nightmare. The corel stuff was better. Adobe have successfully built a moat around particularly Photoshop that no one seems likely to get close to crossing.
  - kranke155 2y ago
    Not just Photoshop. There is literally nothing but After Effects in the 2D Motion Design world.
    - fidotron 2y ago
      Blender will get there eventually, by which I mean in 10 years, but it will. They have the clear foundations going in place today.
    - spaniard89277 2y ago
      Cavalry? That's what my GF uses.
      - 2y ago
bluesounddirect 2y ago
How is gimp now ? https://www.gimp.org/ https://www.gimp.org/ While I am not a professional artist, gimp has served me well in this role for many years .
- dathinab 2y ago
  it really depends on what your needs are, it can be anything from okay but inconvenient to switch (different UX) to not competitive at
- jddj 2y ago
  Give me a few days/weeks each time to get used to the at times perfectly backwards UI and it's great
- zbrozek 2y ago
  It's powerful and the UI is atrocious. I'm an occasional user and there's nothing I can do in under ten minutes of futzing or seeking tutorials.
  - ghufran_syed 2y ago
    so maybe gimp + a gpt model?
    - das_keyboard 2y ago
      This might be a pretty big idea. Since GIMP is highly scriptable afaik it should be possible to have an AI do all the work. But as always... you would need a lot of training data.
      - EasyMark 2y ago
        You could definitely script it in python
      - zelphirkalt 2y ago
        It should be possible to create a community pool of training data. Some place people can donate data to.
lambdaone 2y ago
At this point, if you are in the graphic design area, Adobe basically own you. There is really nothing that will substitute for Photoshop without a massive drop in productivity. GIMP is better that it was, but not yet good enough to replace Photoshop in the same way that Blender replaces Maya etc; perhaps this will drive support for GIMP to get better, but I'm not optimistic.
- gizajob 2y ago
  Affinity make a pretty decent clone of the main Adobe apps. Although they just got bought by Canva so may be at the shark-jumping point.
  - masswerk 2y ago
    They just shipped an update with support for variable fonts. So, I guess, it's still much alive.
- nacs 2y ago
  Every time someone brings up alternatives, I always recommend Krita. User friendly, cross platform, OSS. Far better than Gimp, especially in the UI side.
  - j16sdiz 2y ago
    If krita work for you, that's great. However, Photoshop do lots more than painting and photo editing. If you use the vector, content filling or plug-in features on Photoshop, krita won't help you.
    - nacs 2y ago
      Krita has vector support too. In fact you can mix and match vector and raster layers. It also has plugins that do content filling like this (and they do it offline): https://github.com/Acly/krita-ai-diffusion https://github.com/Acly/krita-ai-diffusion But nothing is going to be a 100% replacement, I'm merely offering alternatives.
gchadwick 2y ago
The devil really is in the details here, a tweet further down the thread quotes the new terms of use: https://x.com/Stretchedwiener/status/1798390688830402802 https://x.com/Stretchedwiener/status/1798390688830402802 > Solely for the purposes of operating or improving the Services and Software, you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, sublicensable, license, to use, reproduce, publicly display, display, distribute, modify, create derivate works based on, publicly perform, and translate the content (typed from the image, may have some mistakes!) Which to be seems astounding! Especially for professional software such as photoshop where many many of its users will be working on behalf of clients and this clause would likely breach agreements with those clients and for other users making content for themselves they understandably don't want to allow Adobe to 'publicly display' their work.
- szundi 2y ago
  I'm really interested wether this will blow up in their faces or not, they have some power over their subjects - oh sorry - users.
  - EasyMark 2y ago
    I mean if you’ve been using their products for years or even decades, it would be a hard pill to swallow that to now get work done for a client you have to move over to gimp or photopea because of this ridiculous new license.
- BiteCode_dev 2y ago
  You can only grant something you have the rights to, so basically, they are asking you to do something you can't. I don't have the rights of my client's product. I want to see how it plays in court.
  - bustling-noose 2y ago
    You granting someone rights to material you don’t have makes you liable twice right? If your friend lent you his car and you lent it to someone else, you become liable twice not zero times.
nabla9 2y ago
https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms-linkfree.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms-linkfree.html >2.2 Our Access to Your Content. We may access, view, or listen to your Content (defined in section 4.1 (Content) below) through both automated and manual methods, but only in limited ways, and only as permitted by law. For example, in order to provide the Services and Software, we may need to access, view, or listen to your Content to (A) respond to Feedback or support requests; (B) detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security, legal, or technical issues; and (C) enforce the Terms, as further set forth in Section 4.1 below. Our automated systems may analyze your Content and Creative Cloud Customer Fonts (defined in section 3.10 (Creative Cloud Customer Fonts) below) using techniques such as machine learning in order to improve our Services and Software and the user experience. Information on how Adobe uses machine learning can be found here: http://www.adobe.com/go/machine_learning http://www.adobe.com/go/machine_learning. -- 4.1 Content. “Content” means any text, information, communication, or material, such as audio files, video files, electronic documents, or images, that you upload, import into, embed for use by, or create using the Services and Software. We reserve the right (but do not have the obligation) to remove Content or restrict access to Content, Services, and Software if any of your Content is found to be in violation of the Terms. We do not review all Content uploaded to the Services and Software, but we may use available technologies, vendors, or processes, including manual review, to screen for certain types of illegal content (for example, child sexual abuse material) or other abusive content or behavior (for example, patterns of activity that indicate spam or phishing, or keywords that indicate adult content has been posted outside of the adult wall). You may learn more about our content moderation policies and practices, including how we moderate content, at our Transparency Center (https://www.adobe.com/go/transparencycenter https://www.adobe.com/go/transparencycenter).
- drexlspivey 2y ago
  Are there actual people out there who use a paid version of photoshop to retouche CP material and store their stuff on the cloud? I have a real hard time believing that.
  - borski 2y ago
    Worse; there are people who pay others to do this for them, in private and in cash, and some of them are idiots in addition to pedophiles.
iroddis 2y ago
I don’t use Adobe, but this feels like it’s missing some context around when / how the private data is accessed. Is it for AI? To satisfy law enforcement requests? For compression or some technical need? To make the most charitable case for Adobe, this could just be clarifying that there is no encryption at rest. It’s not clear if “may” means that the user is giving them permission when they agree to the T&C, or if there are other circumstances where they “may” be required to access the data. Uncharitable cases would be for AI training, life-ruining tech like automated scanning for illegal content that gets automatically forwarded to authorities, etc.
skilled 2y ago
Adobe response: https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-a... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40606768 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40606768 Previous: Photoshop ToS grants Adobe access to user projects for 'content moderation' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591860 - (86 comments)
- mavhc 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - wtfwhateven 2y ago
    You should read the ToS everyone is talking about before claiming it's a "trivial matter" (it isn't)
    - mavhc 2y ago
      [flagged]
- lelandfe 2y ago
  > [Human or automated review] [a]ccess is needed for Adobe applications and services to perform the functions they are designed and used for (such as opening and editing files for the user or creating thumbnails or a preview for sharing). You dummies, it's needed! They have to access our data, it's needed! N.b. this is one of the worse examples of corporate writing I've seen in recent memory. I feel like this entire thing is gaslighting the reader and using corpo jargon to make the thing easier to swallow.
  - jf22 2y ago
    Can you describe how Adobe would generate a thumbnail preview without accessing your content?
nefrix 2y ago
I work a lot in Premiere / After Effects / Photoshop. For me it would be incredible difficult and time consuming to change my workflow. Wouldn’t be impossible, but I would need to spend lot of time learning new tools until I would get to the same work speed. Plus it would be much more expensive. Am I concerned regarding this claim? Not really. I think the chances of being hacked are higher then Adobe doing something nasty with any of the projects they might have access to.
- baq 2y ago
  consider the chances of you getting sued by your clients that you have signed an NDA with. the only realistic option is to seek an amendment to the agreement.
  - bustling-noose 2y ago
    The agreement now should include such scenarios. But then again a good lawyer probably already knows incidences and probably has rock solid agreements that cover this.
  - janosdebugs 2y ago
    NDAs are not the only problem. Adobe Acrobat is used to work on a whole host of documents that may be straight up illegal to share.
- bustling-noose 2y ago
  Hacked ? They are saying they can access your content (I’m assuming cloud though won’t be surprised if they also have remote access enabled by default) can be accessed by them anytime they want. Yes adobe can access the next pixar film being made when they desire to take a peek.
  - nefrix 2y ago
    I am sure when you work on projects for Pixar, they are more strict regarding this kind of things, but I am not in that position, so why to worry?
keiferski 2y ago
It’s unclear to me if this policy applies only to files that you’re hosting with their cloud service - in which case I think (?) the scanning of those files is no different from any other cloud file hosting service, which I assume also scan files to make sure you aren’t hosting something egregiously illegal. Of course, this problem doesn’t exist at all if you just sell offline desktop software, but alas, the monthly SAAS business model has eaten everything else.
- WillAdams 2y ago
  Well, there is Serif's suite: https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/ https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/ (There's also a Photo and page layout app) or the open-source stuff: - https://krita.org/en/ https://krita.org/en/ - https://inkscape.org/ https://inkscape.org/ - https://www.scribus.net/ https://www.scribus.net/
- ptero 2y ago
  IALAL, but the content from the Adobe clarification posted earlier tells it applies to all files created with their software, regardless of whether you host them in the cloud or on your own computer.
  - keiferski 2y ago
    If that’s the case, then yeah this is a serious issue worth the outrage.
  - hskalin 2y ago
    Software like these should have no right to demand internet access. Subscriptions for using software that resides fully on your computer is such a huge scam
    - davidmurdoch 2y ago
      Photoshop runs it's AI features "in the cloud", not locally.
  - 2y ago
spacebacon 2y ago
I have only a sneaking suspicion they wrote this in specifically for training ai models with files stored on adobe cloud.
- daemin 2y ago
  Not only for training their models on any content opened by Adobe products, but it would also cover any content generated by their models, since the models would implicitly have a licence to use the content they were trained with.
- montjoy 2y ago
  That was my first thought too. I looked at the Firefly product and it seemed to say they don’t use your personal data. They have other “AI” products through like GenStudio that’s “coming soon” and I don’t see any “ethical ai” section in its description. I bet this is a “test the waters” EULA and we’ll see them pull it back in the next few days if not hours. If they do pull it back I wonder if they get to keep all of the content of the people who clicked yes within the time window of the onerous EULA?
- surfingdino 2y ago
  It's for this already present feature that they want to expand to other products and that's why they need even more content to repurpose https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/photoshop/generative-fill.html https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/photoshop/generative-fill.... You are literally paying them to steal your work and the content of your clients.
  - flycaliguy 2y ago
    Here is my sort of contrarian take looking at this as a freelance designer who pays the bills with Adobe tools. Im happy to prosper from the work of other commercial artists while feeding the pool. I’ve used a combination of Bing Image Generator and Adobe’s tools to streamline a bunch of work flows and a lot of the pain points in my day have been smoothed over and made delightful. For me these AI tools are like an ergonomic upgrade, literally saving my eye sight. Regarding sensitive files, I don’t have any hardcore NDA clients but I guess I’d wait for their legal team to care and carry on. Isn’t Windows itself compromised this much?
panphora 2y ago
If you're planning to cancel, here's how to avoid the 50% cancellation fee: 1. Go to cancel your subscription. You will see a screen with the cancellation fee. Continue. 2. They will offer you a new plan to avoid the cancellation fee. Choose the cheapest one to switch to a new plan. 3. Here's the loophole: You can cancel any plan for free within two weeks. Cancel the new plan within this period and get your money back for the first month of the new plan. You've avoided the fee. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/k9kh6v/how_to_get_out_of_adobes_cancelation_fee/ https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/k9kh6v/how_to...
- hansoolo 2y ago
  Ah damn, why did I never come up with this?! Thanks for posting!
- stbenjam 2y ago
  I wish I knew this when I accidentally let my photoshop trial continue and had to pay to cancel. What a horrible business practice, I really wish the worst for them.
- dannyw 2y ago
  I don't understand how it's legal for a company to materially change their terms of service, but not allow you to cancel out of the contract if you disagree.
  - tomrod 2y ago
    I'm not sure it is, but then I am highly averse to monopolies.
  - _cenw 2y ago
    Certainly isn't legal in many places, or at least entitles you to "special cancellation".
  - Akronymus 2y ago
    In europe, afair, whenever a contract is changed to be worse for a party, that party has the right to cancel it right then and there without additional fees.
pjc50 2y ago
Not really a choice. 99% of people in this position are going to hit Accept, because they have no choice, and their clients aren't going to complain, because they want work done in Adobe format and have no real alternative. This is going to continue until either there's a big copyright slapfight (you can't just copy Disney stuff and expect not to get sued), HIPAA, or DPA intervention.
ho_schi 2y ago
I wonder why people suck things like Cloud, Co-Pilot or Adobe, WhatsApp or Windows? Let me guess. It seemed once convenient. This is the root of all evil. Don’t use it because it was pre-installed (Windows). Don’t keep using it because it was good before the Cloud (Photoshop). Don’t use it because others force you (WhatsApp). Literally all quick and convenient decisions are something we will regret. If you don’t like Gimp, Blender, Krita or Linux you need help to improve it. Look at the dumpster fire Azure. Nobodies data shall be stored there: https://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-24-581/ https://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-24-581/ If the Chinese government isn’t right now reading your E-Mails somebody else does. Literally everything in Azure or any other Cloud must be considered compromised. And between the security issues the rise the prices.
- sofixa 2y ago
  > Don’t use it because others force you (WhatsApp). That's probably the worst example you could provide. The only utility of WhatsApp is because others use it. If you want to communicate with those others, that's your one and only option. You might have luck convincing some of your social contacts to move to a different chat tool, maybe, but there's around zero chance you'll be able to convince all of them.
  - 4ggr0 2y ago
    I was able to convince all of my friends and family to use Signal so that they can chat with me, the rest just uses SMS, Telegram, Threema or something else to communicate with me...haven't had WhatsApp since 2021.
    - ho_schi 2y ago
      Mostly Signal here :) SMS works fine and E-Mail is instant thanks to Push-Mail. Nearly no force on, others. Both standards. If they tell you the will cut the contact with you if they cannot force WhatsApp on you…that tells something about your relationship. Real friends would send letters if asked so. Right? Some would even visit you. I think WhatsApp is a example because it shows the power of (uninformed) masses. Thanks to software incompatibility it spread everywhere and force the others to use it. Same for software which runs only on Windows, it is the incompatibility of Windows, which uses the power of masses (applications without a port) as lever.
anArbitraryOne 2y ago
I hate myself for paying for Adobe's bullshit but lightroom is so useful.
- adzm 2y ago
  it's okay, I think the dark lord will understand. there really is no comparison among other creative suites and tools.
  - anArbitraryOne 2y ago
    I still think I'm going to Linux/open-source hell, but I hope you're right
lemoncookiechip 2y ago
These are all valid alternatives with real world use, but none of them are Photoshop, and that's kinda the problem we face. Krita - https://krita.org/en/ https://krita.org/en/ Photopea - https://www.photopea.com/ https://www.photopea.com/ GIMP - https://www.gimp.org/ https://www.gimp.org/ Inkscape- https://inkscape.org/ https://inkscape.org/ Affinity Photo - https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/ https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/ Paint.Net - https://www.getpaint.net/ https://www.getpaint.net/
- viscousviolin 2y ago
  *Inkscape not Inkspace
- ffsm8 2y ago
  For non professional use, photopea is seriously great too. Literally just a website you open that imitates the older Photoshop UI (pre-creative cloud)
  - ImHereToVote 2y ago
    Unfortunately Photopea can't have floating point precision since it is dependent on browser support.
    - ffsm8 2y ago
      Technically speaking, it still could. It'd just have to implement it itself via strings. But yeah, it probably doesn't do that (I can't speak about the implementation, I'm entirely uninvolved). Though I've never actually encountered any errors because of that as my usecases are always pretty basic. Things like magic select, transparency, layers etc all work good enough that I haven't used anything besides this since I found out it ... sometime between 2015 and 2019.
- _mlbt 2y ago
  If you have a Mac, Pixelmator Pro is a great alternative as well. https://www.pixelmator.com/pro/ https://www.pixelmator.com/pro/
fidotron 2y ago
Considering the news of Nintendo tracing leaks to Google contractors viewing their private YouTube this seems like a total mess waiting to happen. For those that have not worked near big advertising launches for physical products these NDAs are taken very seriously. The simple reason is leaks profoundly impact the value of inventory.
- vmfunction 2y ago
  I will never every trust real content to be on Cloud of any of these big corp, or any software going towards an online like photoshop is going. USB is way better than online for privacy and security.
- PawgerZ 2y ago
  Nintendo/Google news: https://www.404media.co/google-leak-reveals-thousands-of-privacy-incidents/ https://www.404media.co/google-leak-reveals-thousands-of-pri... Unblocked: https://archive.is/RXEjf https://archive.is/RXEjf
  - alanning 2y ago
    Google’s efforts there seem laudable. They have an internal db for tracking issues that employees identify, resolve them promptly (according to the notes in the db and their response to the article authors), and generally seem to be taking the issues reported seriously. I have more trust for google after reading that, which is not what I expected
    - ben_jones 2y ago
      “Knowing somebody at Google” has long been the best customer support route for non enterprise customers, which represents almost all google customers (per capita).
tartaruz 2y ago
To avoid a cancellation fee with Adobe, follow these steps: 1. Change Your Current Plan: First, switch your existing Adobe plan to a different one. This is because Adobe offers a 14-day cancellation period for any new plan. 2. Cancel the New Plan: Wait until the next day, then cancel this new plan. Due to the 14-day cancellation policy, you should be able to do this without incurring any fees. Explanation: Adobe's policy allows you to cancel a plan within 14 days of purchase without a penalty. By switching to a new plan and then cancelling it within this window, you effectively bypass any cancellation fees that would apply to your original plan.
- dmd 2y ago
  I've done this with hotel stays. No fee to change a reservation, but large penalty to cancel with less than 48 hours notice. So you change your reservation for a week later, then cancel it.
  - Gud 2y ago
    Smart move and thanks for this!
  - ASalazarMX 2y ago
    This sounds like that story of the elder withdrawing $20 at the bank: Elder: I want to withdraw $20 from my account. Teller: You can withdraw $500 minimum here, or use the ATM for small change. Elder: I'll withdraw $500 then. Teller: Here you go. Anything else? Elder: I want to deposit $480 in my account.
- rpastuszak 2y ago
  The alternative I tried (successfully): 1. Switch your payment method to PayPal. 2. Cancel the subscription using the Paypal UI (That was a couple of years ago so I’m not sure if this works)
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    This leaves some kind of outstanding balance on your Adobe account from what I remember, which I suspect they can chase you for with debt collection.
4star3star 2y ago
If I had to guess, this is probably not even Adobe's fault. They probably have a legal requirement to do this, like every goddamn site asking you about cookies.
- roelschroeven 2y ago
  Those sites also do not have a legal requirement to ask you about cookies. Unless of course they insist on tracking you; but that's a choice, not a legal requirement.
- red_trumpet 2y ago
  That's a lie. If a site does not use cookies, it doesn't need to ask you about them. Similarly, if Adobe doesn't process your files, they don't need to have your permissions.
- Anduia 2y ago
  No, it is for training AI
- janosd 2y ago
  Precisely zero sites have a legal obligation to post a cookie notice under the GDPR/ePrivacy directive if all they do is use cookies for technically necessary purposes. If they want to track people on the other hand, that's a different story. Adobe should do a MUCH better job at clarifying their legalese and explaining what they can and cannot use data for. A blog post is not a legally binding agreement. Also, if they want people to trust them with stuff under NDA, they should give people a simple switch that makes sure no Adobe employee or contractor gets to see sensitive documents or files. Or, as a matter of fact, a switch that lets people turn off online features completely. Adobe is not taking their customer's legal responsibilities seriously and this will lead to people needing to cancel subscriptions. (One example, not even NDA-related: transfering PII outside the EU under the GDPR needs special care.) The icing on the cake is that when I tried a few weeks ago, you couldn't even log in to cancel your service without accepting the new terms. Cheers: an ex-Adobe customer (please do better Adobe!)
KyleOneill 2y ago
Already did and now learning Plasticity a good free alternative software.
tambourine_man 2y ago
Canceling Adobe is like unplugging from the grid. Sure, it's perhaps possible depending on your particular reality, but it's terribly inconvenient.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  Is it? I switched from to Affinity some time ago, after having used Photoshop for decades. So far everything has been fine, and it can still edit .psd files.
- spaniard89277 2y ago
  I only know about this world through my gf, who uses Affinity tools and Cavalry. What's the biggest friction?
  - tambourine_man 2y ago
    Basic, essencial, decades-old features lacking.
mrkeen 2y ago
Didn't we as an industry collectively shrug at closed source code (which could be doing anything with our client's data). Then we shrugged again when we took all our client's data off-prem and onto the cloud. Then GDPR hit some of us, so we just sorta declared the cloud-providers to be GDPR-compliant and called it a day. What's gonna be different about this (justifiable) outrage?
Waterluvian 2y ago
So I’m guessing this isn’t even a moral issue anymore. If you have a legal obligation not to share the image data, you must not use Adobe software.
- surfingdino 2y ago
  So you cannot do your job. I see AI getting rid of a lot of jobs already...
  - Waterluvian 2y ago
    I saw this problem in my domain and I imagine it happens everywhere: We were taught exclusively with ArcGIS in undergrad and then so many peers can’t even navigate QGIS because it lacks some window dressing. Schools are where these companies capture the industries.
    - surfingdino 2y ago
      This is worse. Adobe is jeopardising legal status of creatives working on clients' assets. Adobe feels free to take whatever it wants, because it needs other people's content to offer "generative fills" in Photoshop. It's not their content and they have no legal leg to stand on, so they create T&Cs that incriminate their users should the work of one photographer show up in somebody else's photos... like nobody asked for this shit and yet they want their own users to pay the price of the mad chase to not be punished by the Wall St for not doing AI.
Hizonner 2y ago
You never should have been disclosing to Adobe anyway, even if they did pinkie promise not to look at it.
lebuffon 2y ago
Sounds like they want grist for the AI mill without paying for it.
jasonvorhe 2y ago
Adobe knows exactly how many people are dependent on their subscription products in order to make a living.
wslh 2y ago
I cannot believe the costly legal and compliance departments approve all of this. It seems more stupidity and not right due diligence, it is something that should concern stockholders as well.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  How do they approve the Windows's "we can upload any data from your computer at any time" terms? Corporation legal departments have been neglecting their jobs for a while now.
  - wslh 2y ago
    I understand that Microsoft is not doing it right now but it was an statement?
    - marcosdumay 2y ago
      It's at their privacy policy for Win8 and 10. At the context, it's natural to assume they meant to talk about error reporting, but this is not stated anywhere. And it's been there for a while, and they never clarified this point...
- qarl 2y ago
  I once had a startup that did image processing in the cloud. Our lawyers recommended changing the TOS to allow us to use the imagery. I strenuously disagreed, and tried to get them to explain their rationale for such a change. They never really provided a convincing answer. (Literally, they argued that the company may someday accidentally use unlicensed imagery, and we want to protect ourselves from that liability. I suggested that the better policy should simply be more careful with our customer's data.)
nalekberov 2y ago
Can’t you just block all traffic to Adobe products with tools like Little Snitch?
vitiral 2y ago
I guess it's time to amend contracts so that Big Tech Bro has rights to everything, no matter what
freedomben 2y ago
For anybody switching from Photoshop to GIMP, there are tons of different resources to help. There are books[1], video courses[2] (especially on Udemy), blogs, and just about anything else you can imagine. GIMP isn't a full replacement, but I do know several people who have made the switch. I bought "The Book of GIMP: A Complete Guide to Nearly Everything" and I didn't personally like it, but many people do. [1]: https://www.gimp.org/books/ https://www.gimp.org/books/ [2]: https://www.udemy.com/courses/search/?src=ukw&q=gimp https://www.udemy.com/courses/search/?src=ukw&q=gimp
- weberer 2y ago
  People coming from Photoshop would probably prefer Krita, which is also FOSS.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    Yes thanks, that's a great point. I haven't had good luck with Krita personally, but I also haven't put hardly any time into it. I've heard very good things about it so I really need to give it some dedicated time.
  - bbatha 2y ago
    They serve different workloads. Other than GIMP Affinity is also a great alternative, not FOSS, but buy it for life with an incredible price that includes feature updates.
- misswaterfairy 2y ago
  And if you need a commercial alternative, for professional shops that need/require it, Affinity Photo is very good. Serif only offers perpetual, per major version licensing (i.e. no subscription) and offers a 'universal' licence if you use multiple platforms (Windows, Mac, iOS). https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/ https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/
bigbacaloa 2y ago
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smrtinsert 2y ago
The AI generation of software seems to be turning into the largest erosion of privacy ever. It's all fun and games until a malevolent political party decides it wants access to your Windows and Photoshop history.
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sasha89 2y ago
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t0bia_s 2y ago
You cannot even work offline. Only solution is cracked version to working with Adobe on field without internet connection.
coldcode 2y ago
This article has dropped off of HN while I was making a comment.
- nicce 2y ago
  Wonder what would be the reason for that? It is clearly highly interesting one and not total disinformation.
  - yodon 2y ago
    It disappeared because people disagree on whether to upvote or downvote comments, or other similar signals of disagreement. When the HN algorithm sees signals like comments receiving large numbers of upvotes and downvotes simultaneously, or long strings of rapid back-and-forth tit-for-tat comments between posters, or etc, it interprets those signals as "this post is controversial." HN explicitly and intentionally downranks algorithmically identified controversial topics in order to reduce the odds commenters behave badly (which is disproportionately more likely in controversial topics). The HN algorithm is intentional about a primary goal of driving well behaved discussions, even knowing that means important controversial topics getting downranked. The fact that the disagreement here is likely centered around whether gimp is good or bad is irrelevant to the algorithm. It doesn't want people to get in the habit of behaving badly on HN, regardless of the topic.
    - qarl 2y ago
      So an entity can censor HN by simply spamming the comments with disagreement. Cool.
      - yodon 2y ago
        Or just flag it, which is much easier and quicker and hardly news that the feature is there
        qarl 2y ago
        Cool.
deleted 2y ago
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miniBill 2y ago
The main issue with "Cancel Adobe" is that it's very naïve to assume that a nontrivial percentage of people using it can realistically switch to something else.
- dathinab 2y ago
  yes but also by today there are a lot of good alternatives many more and much more mature ones then in the past
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    There's no alternative to Photoshop. And if you're going to say GIMP or Krita, you've never seriously worked with Photoshop.
    - berniedurfee 2y ago
      Same with Lightroom. I still use v4 and it’s still better than anything else available today. I try all the alternatives annually and nothing has as comprehensive and complete a toolset.
  - genevra 2y ago
    Literally name one good alternative for Adobe Animate, After Effects, and Photoshop please
    - spectre3d 2y ago
      A good alternative to AE, especially for simpler stuff, is Apple Motion. It works in real time, unlike AE. I’ve chosen it over AE for all the animated titles I’ve worked on for the past 8 or so years and have had no issues. Opening AE to update old projects is a chore, never enjoyable. Motion is actually fun to use. I paid once, and they’ve been updating it for free since 2011.
      - genevra 2y ago
kome 2y ago
Stallman is right.
- gizajob 2y ago
  Metaphysically and morally, yeah. Getting the job done for things like photoshop replacements, no.
gavinhoward 2y ago
I've said it before [1], and I will say it again: This is why the industry needs to professionalize, with a code of ethics and regulations so that we can tell our bosses no when they tell us to do this stuff. https://gavinhoward.com/2023/11/how-to-fund-foss-save-it-from-the-cra-and-improve-cybersecurity/ https://gavinhoward.com/2023/11/how-to-fund-foss-save-it-fro... And our ethics must include safeguarding customer data from everyone, including ourselves. And this is why: https://gavinhoward.com/2023/11/your-loved-ones-are-prisoners-and-you-made-the-chain/ https://gavinhoward.com/2023/11/your-loved-ones-are-prisoner... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40603025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40603025
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  Traditional engineers have a code of ethics and it prohibits them from misleading their clients, requires they take certain precautions to prevent unexpected harms. But it does not prevent them from making things intended to harm. They may still design bombs and warplanes, may make guns and bullets for their clients to sell, with no constraints on the final use to which they are applied. An engineering code of ethics would require us to avoid inadvertent data leaks, but would not constrain us from developing spyware, or programs intended to steal the work of users and profit from it. For that we need a moral position from which to say that these things are wrong, and courage to refuse to do them. We will not find precedent for this in traditional engineering, which has always refused to make this stand.
  - gavinhoward 2y ago
    We do find it in healthcare and law, where doctors and lawyers have duties to their clients that include serving only their clients, not their employers. The equivalent in software would be that we don't gather data unless it directly serves the user, and we certainly don't let our employers sell it. We need to take lessons from multiple professions, not just professional engineering.
qwertox 2y ago
I have an Android app which I developed just for me. I use it to record bike rides, see weather forecasts, see who called on the landline and the like. It's not published nor uploaded to Google Play or elsewhere, because it is just for me. When I upgraded it today to a new version, my Pixel phone told me that I have to upload the app to Google, so that they can security-check it. Previously there was an option where you could select something like "don't check". It's somehow the same as with this Adobe issue. Google now has a copy of my app even though I just installed my app on my phone. If now a Google employee installs the app on a device to "check" it, he will be able to see my power consumption, see who called, listen to voice messages, and so on.
- taxmeifyoucan 2y ago
  Interesting, I am doing exactly the same thing with GrapheneOS and never had a problem. If you have a Pixel, I would strongly recommend to consider Graphene a degoogling it. You can also install via Fdroid or Obtainium and I don't see how their apps could be supported in Google Play
- kohbo 2y ago
  I have multiple personal apps that I've side loaded on my Pixel Fold. This hasn't come up for me. Are you sure there isn't more to this story?
  - qwertox 2y ago
    Absolutely sure. It's this "Google Play Protect"-feature. I have multiple apps, and they used to trigger randomly these scan requests on upgrades for maybe two years, but with today's install it appears that they have changed how they deal with this, where you no longer have a choice. Maybe it's because it has extensive permissions wich I need in order to get access to my data usage, but that's not the point. Then again, it also happens with apps which don't require many permissions.
- jhanschoo 2y ago
  Are you referring to this: https://support.google.com/android/answer/2812853 https://support.google.com/android/answer/2812853 If so, do the directions mentioned there help? The situation you are describing is not morally the same. (edit: striking through this part ~~Adobe's desire for their customers' content is to use it to develop AI tools that Adobe can then resell to its customers.~~) The security checkup you are talking about is intended to combat a real problem that unsophisticated smartphone users are victim to. Adobe's request to access your content is not based out of intending to safeguard unsophisticated users.
davidmurdoch 2y ago
Sounds like great motivation for someone to write some software that auto generates junk images, or even better, terrifying and horrific images, that then get uploaded to Adobe, in order to taint their data.
troyvit 2y ago
The title of this piece recommends cancelling Adobe. If anybody has, what are they cancelling to? Our organization uses their audio tools among other things, and they're used to the polish and convenience they get from Adobe products.
- jpc0 2y ago
  > Our organization uses their audio tools among other things, and they're used to the polish and convenience they get from Adobe products. As a professional in audio with over a decade of experience... Adobe has ** audio tools. There are a lot of other tools that are significantly better, commercial ones, much older than Adobe's... Now for what Adobe is actually good at, which is not video nor audio, I'm not sure there is an alternative. I've heard things about Affinity but cannot tell you since all the people I know in graphics use Photoshop, illustrator, lightroom.
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HumblyTossed 2y ago
Vote with your wallets creators. You either accept or find another software.
berniedurfee 2y ago
Would it be legal to just “clone” Photoshop or Lightroom as a FOSS project? I mean create a nearly exact clone. Everything down to the layout, tools, menus, options, etc. Who would Adobe sue? Could they make it illegal to distribute?
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scotty79 2y ago
How's that even legal. There should be laws about this.
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foxandmouse 2y ago
Can someone please help me find some direction, I thought that adobe vindicated on this... if the claim still holds, it's pretty damning.. hell, if their generative ai wasn't so good they'd be obsolotere.. that said, they abused trust to be able to train models but no one seems to care...
cy6erlion 2y ago
Just use darktable and gimp.

651 points by wanderingmind 2y ago

And you will get screwed a second time, because you have to pay the cancellation fee. > Should you cancel after 14 days, you'll be charged a lump sum amount of 50% of your remaining contract obligation and your service will continue until the end of that month's billing period.

immibis 2y ago
Lawyer up! They unilaterally changed the contract, that probably invalidates that clause in any sane country (so, not USA). They might even have to pay you the cancellation fee, or more.
- bluGill 2y ago
  It may even in the us, but a lawyer will cost you more than paying the fee. Though there is a class action in the us if enough people cancle - the lawyers get the cancle fee and you get $.25
  - ghufran_syed 2y ago
    you can almost certainly do a chargeback on your credit card, then they have to come after you, and their legal costs will hugely outweigh any payment they are seeking
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      No, they’ll just sell the debt for peanuts to a collection agency, who will ruin your credit.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Check your credit card terms of service carefully. Cards do have consumer protection, but generally it isn't about this type of situation. If you owe the fee then it is fraud to do a chargeback and you can get into legal trouble (though odds are as the other poster said: they will just send you to collections and it will hit your credit report). I agree that this type of change to contract terms is not acceptable, but unfortunately you need a lawyer to fight it.
  - gradientsrneat 2y ago
    Adobe's fine print contains a Binding Arbitration Agreement and Class Action Waiver, which would prevent class action in the U.S. if you didn't follow the instructions to opt out. Similar clauses, some without opt-outs, have proliferated widely throughout the tech industry. Most notably, Windows added them to most of their products shortly before the release of Windows 8. Interestingly, GitHub does not have these clauses yet.
  - immibis 2y ago
    In some countries, the loser pays for both lawyers (and there are rules about how much money that can be).
- belter 2y ago
  > Lawyer up! Did their previous contract said they could unilaterally change the contract? :-)
  - hajile 2y ago
    That kind of clause won't stand up in court and they know it.
    - belter 2y ago
      https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html "1.5 Updates to Terms... ...We may make changes to the Terms from time to time, and if we do, we will notify you by revising the date at the top of the Terms and, in some cases, we may provide you with additional notice. Adobe will not make changes that have the effect of imposing additional fees or charges without providing additional notice. Any such changes will not apply to any dispute between you and Adobe arising prior to the date on which we posted the revised Terms incorporating such changes, or when the Terms otherwise become effective. You should look at the Terms regularly..." "...Unless otherwise noted, the amended Terms will be effective immediately, and your continued use of our Services and Software confirm your acceptance of the changes. If you do not agree to the amended Terms, you must stop using our Services and Software and, if applicable, cancel your subscription..."
      - hajile 2y ago
        You can add anything you want to a contract, but that doesn't mean the courts will uphold it.
        belter 2y ago
        How did the contract made it through Adobe Legal Dept?
        philistine 2y ago
        I’m trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You’re the one that has to walk through it.
yellow_lead 2y ago
You can get around this by switching your subscription (free of charge), then canceling.
dathinab 2y ago
I think your theoretically have the right for a free out of bad cancellation if a provider changes their TOS in a way where it's reasonable to argue it affects the usability of the product for you. At least in the EU.
- jerf 2y ago
  Common law countries in general as well. You're not supposed to be able to rewrite a contract arbitrarily, nor can you simply write into a contract that you can rewrite it at will. In common law, that theoretically makes it not a contract in the first place. For that reason, if you raise the right kind of fuss and raise it to their legal team, the legal team will almost certainly let you out for free rather than run the risk of getting their contract invalidated to any degree in a court of law. I speak here generally in such countries, not just for Adobe. However, this is theory. The rule of law is generally declining in the West. Your mileage may vary in any specific attempt.

ale42 2y ago

To what do these conditions apply? To any content edited within Adobe software, or to content stored in Adobe cloud?

deleted 2y ago
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ergonaught 2y ago
It's from their general terms. It does not clearly restrict itself to items stored on their servers. See... 2.2 Our Access to Your Content. 4.1 Content. “Content” means any text, information, communication, or material, such as audio files, video files, electronic documents, or images, that you upload, import into, embed for use by, or create using the Services and Software. 4.2 Licenses to Your Content. Solely for the purposes of operating or improving the Services and Software, you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free sublicensable, license, to use, reproduce, publicly display, distribute, modify, create derivative works based on, publicly perform, and translate the Content. ...and so forth https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html They're unlikely to actually want to go out of business or spark major revisions to law, so they'll presumably "clarify". (As they've attempted to do I guess.)

nicce 2y ago

How many users need to leave before enshittification ends? I guess that enough users still simply cannot afford to leave and nothing ever changes.

immibis 2y ago
History suggests that it never ends. Platforms can bleed users but the enshittification only stops when their owners actually go bankrupt, get acquired by another company, and then get dropped for lack of interest.
- xattt 2y ago
  Once an executive is poisoned with an enshittification mindset, anything they touch moving forward will (probably) have a lingering smell of pig shit. Less crappy services will come with generational change. Some young entrepreneurs who are not yet jaded will choose social capital and goodwill over financial gain. As an aside, I miss the days when you could go to some hole-in-the-wall restaurant and get a genuinely good meal. I always thought this was because the owner probably glowed with pride that he was feeding people and that people like him/her.
Devasta 2y ago
I used to work for an insurance company that is a F500, they had thousands of mobile phone insurance policies for £2.99 a month in the UK that were running for decades. We never got calls, we never had claims, 99.999% of the customers had completely forgotten the policies even existed, diligently insuring their Nokia 3210's. Every software company is banking on this happening for them. Enshittification will never end, sure they lose customers but eventually they can get their costs down to zero and its all more or less free money after that.
- h2odragon 2y ago
  Says a lot about our world, that such business plans are the most desirable.

srameshc 2y ago

Side question: how good are Affinity Designer & Photo as a replacement for Adobe tools ?

gyanreyer 2y ago
I really really like Affinity. I'm not a pro but they offer all of the tools I would possibly need in a much better designed package compared to open source alternatives like gimp. Adobe has more bells and whistles like AI, but I don't need that. And I'm very happy to support their no-subscription model, it's very refreshing.
gizajob 2y ago
Totally awesome.
fidotron 2y ago
Not close. They’re utterly inconsistent and glitchy which makes using them in a hurry a total nightmare. The corel stuff was better. Adobe have successfully built a moat around particularly Photoshop that no one seems likely to get close to crossing.
- kranke155 2y ago
  Not just Photoshop. There is literally nothing but After Effects in the 2D Motion Design world.
  - fidotron 2y ago
    Blender will get there eventually, by which I mean in 10 years, but it will. They have the clear foundations going in place today.
  - spaniard89277 2y ago
    Cavalry? That's what my GF uses.
    - 2y ago

bluesounddirect 2y ago

How is gimp now ? https://www.gimp.org/ https://www.gimp.org/ While I am not a professional artist, gimp has served me well in this role for many years .

dathinab 2y ago
it really depends on what your needs are, it can be anything from okay but inconvenient to switch (different UX) to not competitive at
jddj 2y ago
Give me a few days/weeks each time to get used to the at times perfectly backwards UI and it's great
zbrozek 2y ago
It's powerful and the UI is atrocious. I'm an occasional user and there's nothing I can do in under ten minutes of futzing or seeking tutorials.
- ghufran_syed 2y ago
  so maybe gimp + a gpt model?
  - das_keyboard 2y ago
    This might be a pretty big idea. Since GIMP is highly scriptable afaik it should be possible to have an AI do all the work. But as always... you would need a lot of training data.
    - EasyMark 2y ago
      You could definitely script it in python
    - zelphirkalt 2y ago
      It should be possible to create a community pool of training data. Some place people can donate data to.

lambdaone 2y ago

At this point, if you are in the graphic design area, Adobe basically own you. There is really nothing that will substitute for Photoshop without a massive drop in productivity. GIMP is better that it was, but not yet good enough to replace Photoshop in the same way that Blender replaces Maya etc; perhaps this will drive support for GIMP to get better, but I'm not optimistic.

gizajob 2y ago
Affinity make a pretty decent clone of the main Adobe apps. Although they just got bought by Canva so may be at the shark-jumping point.
- masswerk 2y ago
  They just shipped an update with support for variable fonts. So, I guess, it's still much alive.
nacs 2y ago
Every time someone brings up alternatives, I always recommend Krita. User friendly, cross platform, OSS. Far better than Gimp, especially in the UI side.
- j16sdiz 2y ago
  If krita work for you, that's great. However, Photoshop do lots more than painting and photo editing. If you use the vector, content filling or plug-in features on Photoshop, krita won't help you.
  - nacs 2y ago
    Krita has vector support too. In fact you can mix and match vector and raster layers. It also has plugins that do content filling like this (and they do it offline): https://github.com/Acly/krita-ai-diffusion https://github.com/Acly/krita-ai-diffusion But nothing is going to be a 100% replacement, I'm merely offering alternatives.

gchadwick 2y ago

The devil really is in the details here, a tweet further down the thread quotes the new terms of use: https://x.com/Stretchedwiener/status/1798390688830402802 https://x.com/Stretchedwiener/status/1798390688830402802 > Solely for the purposes of operating or improving the Services and Software, you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, sublicensable, license, to use, reproduce, publicly display, display, distribute, modify, create derivate works based on, publicly perform, and translate the content (typed from the image, may have some mistakes!) Which to be seems astounding! Especially for professional software such as photoshop where many many of its users will be working on behalf of clients and this clause would likely breach agreements with those clients and for other users making content for themselves they understandably don't want to allow Adobe to 'publicly display' their work.

szundi 2y ago
I'm really interested wether this will blow up in their faces or not, they have some power over their subjects - oh sorry - users.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  I mean if you’ve been using their products for years or even decades, it would be a hard pill to swallow that to now get work done for a client you have to move over to gimp or photopea because of this ridiculous new license.
BiteCode_dev 2y ago
You can only grant something you have the rights to, so basically, they are asking you to do something you can't. I don't have the rights of my client's product. I want to see how it plays in court.
- bustling-noose 2y ago
  You granting someone rights to material you don’t have makes you liable twice right? If your friend lent you his car and you lent it to someone else, you become liable twice not zero times.

nabla9 2y ago

https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms-linkfree.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms-linkfree.html >2.2 Our Access to Your Content. We may access, view, or listen to your Content (defined in section 4.1 (Content) below) through both automated and manual methods, but only in limited ways, and only as permitted by law. For example, in order to provide the Services and Software, we may need to access, view, or listen to your Content to (A) respond to Feedback or support requests; (B) detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security, legal, or technical issues; and (C) enforce the Terms, as further set forth in Section 4.1 below. Our automated systems may analyze your Content and Creative Cloud Customer Fonts (defined in section 3.10 (Creative Cloud Customer Fonts) below) using techniques such as machine learning in order to improve our Services and Software and the user experience. Information on how Adobe uses machine learning can be found here: http://www.adobe.com/go/machine_learning http://www.adobe.com/go/machine_learning. -- 4.1 Content. “Content” means any text, information, communication, or material, such as audio files, video files, electronic documents, or images, that you upload, import into, embed for use by, or create using the Services and Software. We reserve the right (but do not have the obligation) to remove Content or restrict access to Content, Services, and Software if any of your Content is found to be in violation of the Terms. We do not review all Content uploaded to the Services and Software, but we may use available technologies, vendors, or processes, including manual review, to screen for certain types of illegal content (for example, child sexual abuse material) or other abusive content or behavior (for example, patterns of activity that indicate spam or phishing, or keywords that indicate adult content has been posted outside of the adult wall). You may learn more about our content moderation policies and practices, including how we moderate content, at our Transparency Center (https://www.adobe.com/go/transparencycenter https://www.adobe.com/go/transparencycenter).

drexlspivey 2y ago
Are there actual people out there who use a paid version of photoshop to retouche CP material and store their stuff on the cloud? I have a real hard time believing that.
- borski 2y ago
  Worse; there are people who pay others to do this for them, in private and in cash, and some of them are idiots in addition to pedophiles.

iroddis 2y ago

I don’t use Adobe, but this feels like it’s missing some context around when / how the private data is accessed. Is it for AI? To satisfy law enforcement requests? For compression or some technical need? To make the most charitable case for Adobe, this could just be clarifying that there is no encryption at rest. It’s not clear if “may” means that the user is giving them permission when they agree to the T&C, or if there are other circumstances where they “may” be required to access the data. Uncharitable cases would be for AI training, life-ruining tech like automated scanning for illegal content that gets automatically forwarded to authorities, etc.

skilled 2y ago

Adobe response: https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-a... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40606768 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40606768 Previous: Photoshop ToS grants Adobe access to user projects for 'content moderation' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591860 - (86 comments)

mavhc 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- wtfwhateven 2y ago
  You should read the ToS everyone is talking about before claiming it's a "trivial matter" (it isn't)
  - mavhc 2y ago
    [flagged]
lelandfe 2y ago
> [Human or automated review] [a]ccess is needed for Adobe applications and services to perform the functions they are designed and used for (such as opening and editing files for the user or creating thumbnails or a preview for sharing). You dummies, it's needed! They have to access our data, it's needed! N.b. this is one of the worse examples of corporate writing I've seen in recent memory. I feel like this entire thing is gaslighting the reader and using corpo jargon to make the thing easier to swallow.
- jf22 2y ago
  Can you describe how Adobe would generate a thumbnail preview without accessing your content?

nefrix 2y ago

I work a lot in Premiere / After Effects / Photoshop. For me it would be incredible difficult and time consuming to change my workflow. Wouldn’t be impossible, but I would need to spend lot of time learning new tools until I would get to the same work speed. Plus it would be much more expensive. Am I concerned regarding this claim? Not really. I think the chances of being hacked are higher then Adobe doing something nasty with any of the projects they might have access to.

baq 2y ago
consider the chances of you getting sued by your clients that you have signed an NDA with. the only realistic option is to seek an amendment to the agreement.
- bustling-noose 2y ago
  The agreement now should include such scenarios. But then again a good lawyer probably already knows incidences and probably has rock solid agreements that cover this.
- janosdebugs 2y ago
  NDAs are not the only problem. Adobe Acrobat is used to work on a whole host of documents that may be straight up illegal to share.
bustling-noose 2y ago
Hacked ? They are saying they can access your content (I’m assuming cloud though won’t be surprised if they also have remote access enabled by default) can be accessed by them anytime they want. Yes adobe can access the next pixar film being made when they desire to take a peek.
- nefrix 2y ago
  I am sure when you work on projects for Pixar, they are more strict regarding this kind of things, but I am not in that position, so why to worry?

keiferski 2y ago

It’s unclear to me if this policy applies only to files that you’re hosting with their cloud service - in which case I think (?) the scanning of those files is no different from any other cloud file hosting service, which I assume also scan files to make sure you aren’t hosting something egregiously illegal. Of course, this problem doesn’t exist at all if you just sell offline desktop software, but alas, the monthly SAAS business model has eaten everything else.

WillAdams 2y ago
Well, there is Serif's suite: https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/ https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/ (There's also a Photo and page layout app) or the open-source stuff: - https://krita.org/en/ https://krita.org/en/ - https://inkscape.org/ https://inkscape.org/ - https://www.scribus.net/ https://www.scribus.net/
ptero 2y ago
IALAL, but the content from the Adobe clarification posted earlier tells it applies to all files created with their software, regardless of whether you host them in the cloud or on your own computer.
- keiferski 2y ago
  If that’s the case, then yeah this is a serious issue worth the outrage.
- hskalin 2y ago
  Software like these should have no right to demand internet access. Subscriptions for using software that resides fully on your computer is such a huge scam
  - davidmurdoch 2y ago
    Photoshop runs it's AI features "in the cloud", not locally.
- 2y ago

spacebacon 2y ago

I have only a sneaking suspicion they wrote this in specifically for training ai models with files stored on adobe cloud.

daemin 2y ago
Not only for training their models on any content opened by Adobe products, but it would also cover any content generated by their models, since the models would implicitly have a licence to use the content they were trained with.
montjoy 2y ago
That was my first thought too. I looked at the Firefly product and it seemed to say they don’t use your personal data. They have other “AI” products through like GenStudio that’s “coming soon” and I don’t see any “ethical ai” section in its description. I bet this is a “test the waters” EULA and we’ll see them pull it back in the next few days if not hours. If they do pull it back I wonder if they get to keep all of the content of the people who clicked yes within the time window of the onerous EULA?
surfingdino 2y ago
It's for this already present feature that they want to expand to other products and that's why they need even more content to repurpose https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/photoshop/generative-fill.html https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/photoshop/generative-fill.... You are literally paying them to steal your work and the content of your clients.
- flycaliguy 2y ago
  Here is my sort of contrarian take looking at this as a freelance designer who pays the bills with Adobe tools. Im happy to prosper from the work of other commercial artists while feeding the pool. I’ve used a combination of Bing Image Generator and Adobe’s tools to streamline a bunch of work flows and a lot of the pain points in my day have been smoothed over and made delightful. For me these AI tools are like an ergonomic upgrade, literally saving my eye sight. Regarding sensitive files, I don’t have any hardcore NDA clients but I guess I’d wait for their legal team to care and carry on. Isn’t Windows itself compromised this much?

panphora 2y ago

If you're planning to cancel, here's how to avoid the 50% cancellation fee: 1. Go to cancel your subscription. You will see a screen with the cancellation fee. Continue. 2. They will offer you a new plan to avoid the cancellation fee. Choose the cheapest one to switch to a new plan. 3. Here's the loophole: You can cancel any plan for free within two weeks. Cancel the new plan within this period and get your money back for the first month of the new plan. You've avoided the fee. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/k9kh6v/how_to_get_out_of_adobes_cancelation_fee/ https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/k9kh6v/how_to...

hansoolo 2y ago
Ah damn, why did I never come up with this?! Thanks for posting!
stbenjam 2y ago
I wish I knew this when I accidentally let my photoshop trial continue and had to pay to cancel. What a horrible business practice, I really wish the worst for them.
dannyw 2y ago
I don't understand how it's legal for a company to materially change their terms of service, but not allow you to cancel out of the contract if you disagree.
- tomrod 2y ago
  I'm not sure it is, but then I am highly averse to monopolies.
- _cenw 2y ago
  Certainly isn't legal in many places, or at least entitles you to "special cancellation".
- Akronymus 2y ago
  In europe, afair, whenever a contract is changed to be worse for a party, that party has the right to cancel it right then and there without additional fees.

pjc50 2y ago

Not really a choice. 99% of people in this position are going to hit Accept, because they have no choice, and their clients aren't going to complain, because they want work done in Adobe format and have no real alternative. This is going to continue until either there's a big copyright slapfight (you can't just copy Disney stuff and expect not to get sued), HIPAA, or DPA intervention.

ho_schi 2y ago

I wonder why people suck things like Cloud, Co-Pilot or Adobe, WhatsApp or Windows? Let me guess. It seemed once convenient. This is the root of all evil. Don’t use it because it was pre-installed (Windows). Don’t keep using it because it was good before the Cloud (Photoshop). Don’t use it because others force you (WhatsApp). Literally all quick and convenient decisions are something we will regret. If you don’t like Gimp, Blender, Krita or Linux you need help to improve it. Look at the dumpster fire Azure. Nobodies data shall be stored there: https://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-24-581/ https://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-24-581/ If the Chinese government isn’t right now reading your E-Mails somebody else does. Literally everything in Azure or any other Cloud must be considered compromised. And between the security issues the rise the prices.

sofixa 2y ago
> Don’t use it because others force you (WhatsApp). That's probably the worst example you could provide. The only utility of WhatsApp is because others use it. If you want to communicate with those others, that's your one and only option. You might have luck convincing some of your social contacts to move to a different chat tool, maybe, but there's around zero chance you'll be able to convince all of them.
- 4ggr0 2y ago
  I was able to convince all of my friends and family to use Signal so that they can chat with me, the rest just uses SMS, Telegram, Threema or something else to communicate with me...haven't had WhatsApp since 2021.
  - ho_schi 2y ago
    Mostly Signal here :) SMS works fine and E-Mail is instant thanks to Push-Mail. Nearly no force on, others. Both standards. If they tell you the will cut the contact with you if they cannot force WhatsApp on you…that tells something about your relationship. Real friends would send letters if asked so. Right? Some would even visit you. I think WhatsApp is a example because it shows the power of (uninformed) masses. Thanks to software incompatibility it spread everywhere and force the others to use it. Same for software which runs only on Windows, it is the incompatibility of Windows, which uses the power of masses (applications without a port) as lever.

anArbitraryOne 2y ago

I hate myself for paying for Adobe's bullshit but lightroom is so useful.

adzm 2y ago
it's okay, I think the dark lord will understand. there really is no comparison among other creative suites and tools.
- anArbitraryOne 2y ago
  I still think I'm going to Linux/open-source hell, but I hope you're right

lemoncookiechip 2y ago

These are all valid alternatives with real world use, but none of them are Photoshop, and that's kinda the problem we face. Krita - https://krita.org/en/ https://krita.org/en/ Photopea - https://www.photopea.com/ https://www.photopea.com/ GIMP - https://www.gimp.org/ https://www.gimp.org/ Inkscape- https://inkscape.org/ https://inkscape.org/ Affinity Photo - https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/ https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/ Paint.Net - https://www.getpaint.net/ https://www.getpaint.net/

viscousviolin 2y ago
*Inkscape not Inkspace
ffsm8 2y ago
For non professional use, photopea is seriously great too. Literally just a website you open that imitates the older Photoshop UI (pre-creative cloud)
- ImHereToVote 2y ago
  Unfortunately Photopea can't have floating point precision since it is dependent on browser support.
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    Technically speaking, it still could. It'd just have to implement it itself via strings. But yeah, it probably doesn't do that (I can't speak about the implementation, I'm entirely uninvolved). Though I've never actually encountered any errors because of that as my usecases are always pretty basic. Things like magic select, transparency, layers etc all work good enough that I haven't used anything besides this since I found out it ... sometime between 2015 and 2019.
_mlbt 2y ago
If you have a Mac, Pixelmator Pro is a great alternative as well. https://www.pixelmator.com/pro/ https://www.pixelmator.com/pro/

fidotron 2y ago

Considering the news of Nintendo tracing leaks to Google contractors viewing their private YouTube this seems like a total mess waiting to happen. For those that have not worked near big advertising launches for physical products these NDAs are taken very seriously. The simple reason is leaks profoundly impact the value of inventory.

vmfunction 2y ago
I will never every trust real content to be on Cloud of any of these big corp, or any software going towards an online like photoshop is going. USB is way better than online for privacy and security.
PawgerZ 2y ago
Nintendo/Google news: https://www.404media.co/google-leak-reveals-thousands-of-privacy-incidents/ https://www.404media.co/google-leak-reveals-thousands-of-pri... Unblocked: https://archive.is/RXEjf https://archive.is/RXEjf
- alanning 2y ago
  Google’s efforts there seem laudable. They have an internal db for tracking issues that employees identify, resolve them promptly (according to the notes in the db and their response to the article authors), and generally seem to be taking the issues reported seriously. I have more trust for google after reading that, which is not what I expected
  - ben_jones 2y ago
    “Knowing somebody at Google” has long been the best customer support route for non enterprise customers, which represents almost all google customers (per capita).

tartaruz 2y ago

To avoid a cancellation fee with Adobe, follow these steps: 1. Change Your Current Plan: First, switch your existing Adobe plan to a different one. This is because Adobe offers a 14-day cancellation period for any new plan. 2. Cancel the New Plan: Wait until the next day, then cancel this new plan. Due to the 14-day cancellation policy, you should be able to do this without incurring any fees. Explanation: Adobe's policy allows you to cancel a plan within 14 days of purchase without a penalty. By switching to a new plan and then cancelling it within this window, you effectively bypass any cancellation fees that would apply to your original plan.

dmd 2y ago
I've done this with hotel stays. No fee to change a reservation, but large penalty to cancel with less than 48 hours notice. So you change your reservation for a week later, then cancel it.
- Gud 2y ago
  Smart move and thanks for this!
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  This sounds like that story of the elder withdrawing $20 at the bank: Elder: I want to withdraw $20 from my account. Teller: You can withdraw $500 minimum here, or use the ATM for small change. Elder: I'll withdraw $500 then. Teller: Here you go. Anything else? Elder: I want to deposit $480 in my account.
rpastuszak 2y ago
The alternative I tried (successfully): 1. Switch your payment method to PayPal. 2. Cancel the subscription using the Paypal UI (That was a couple of years ago so I’m not sure if this works)
- qingcharles 2y ago
  This leaves some kind of outstanding balance on your Adobe account from what I remember, which I suspect they can chase you for with debt collection.

4star3star 2y ago

If I had to guess, this is probably not even Adobe's fault. They probably have a legal requirement to do this, like every goddamn site asking you about cookies.

roelschroeven 2y ago
Those sites also do not have a legal requirement to ask you about cookies. Unless of course they insist on tracking you; but that's a choice, not a legal requirement.
red_trumpet 2y ago
That's a lie. If a site does not use cookies, it doesn't need to ask you about them. Similarly, if Adobe doesn't process your files, they don't need to have your permissions.
Anduia 2y ago
No, it is for training AI
janosd 2y ago
Precisely zero sites have a legal obligation to post a cookie notice under the GDPR/ePrivacy directive if all they do is use cookies for technically necessary purposes. If they want to track people on the other hand, that's a different story. Adobe should do a MUCH better job at clarifying their legalese and explaining what they can and cannot use data for. A blog post is not a legally binding agreement. Also, if they want people to trust them with stuff under NDA, they should give people a simple switch that makes sure no Adobe employee or contractor gets to see sensitive documents or files. Or, as a matter of fact, a switch that lets people turn off online features completely. Adobe is not taking their customer's legal responsibilities seriously and this will lead to people needing to cancel subscriptions. (One example, not even NDA-related: transfering PII outside the EU under the GDPR needs special care.) The icing on the cake is that when I tried a few weeks ago, you couldn't even log in to cancel your service without accepting the new terms. Cheers: an ex-Adobe customer (please do better Adobe!)

KyleOneill 2y ago

Already did and now learning Plasticity a good free alternative software.

tambourine_man 2y ago

Canceling Adobe is like unplugging from the grid. Sure, it's perhaps possible depending on your particular reality, but it's terribly inconvenient.

carlosjobim 2y ago
Is it? I switched from to Affinity some time ago, after having used Photoshop for decades. So far everything has been fine, and it can still edit .psd files.
spaniard89277 2y ago
I only know about this world through my gf, who uses Affinity tools and Cavalry. What's the biggest friction?
- tambourine_man 2y ago
  Basic, essencial, decades-old features lacking.

mrkeen 2y ago

Didn't we as an industry collectively shrug at closed source code (which could be doing anything with our client's data). Then we shrugged again when we took all our client's data off-prem and onto the cloud. Then GDPR hit some of us, so we just sorta declared the cloud-providers to be GDPR-compliant and called it a day. What's gonna be different about this (justifiable) outrage?

Waterluvian 2y ago

So I’m guessing this isn’t even a moral issue anymore. If you have a legal obligation not to share the image data, you must not use Adobe software.

surfingdino 2y ago
So you cannot do your job. I see AI getting rid of a lot of jobs already...
- Waterluvian 2y ago
  I saw this problem in my domain and I imagine it happens everywhere: We were taught exclusively with ArcGIS in undergrad and then so many peers can’t even navigate QGIS because it lacks some window dressing. Schools are where these companies capture the industries.
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    This is worse. Adobe is jeopardising legal status of creatives working on clients' assets. Adobe feels free to take whatever it wants, because it needs other people's content to offer "generative fills" in Photoshop. It's not their content and they have no legal leg to stand on, so they create T&Cs that incriminate their users should the work of one photographer show up in somebody else's photos... like nobody asked for this shit and yet they want their own users to pay the price of the mad chase to not be punished by the Wall St for not doing AI.

Hizonner 2y ago

You never should have been disclosing to Adobe anyway, even if they did pinkie promise not to look at it.

lebuffon 2y ago

Sounds like they want grist for the AI mill without paying for it.

jasonvorhe 2y ago

Adobe knows exactly how many people are dependent on their subscription products in order to make a living.

wslh 2y ago

I cannot believe the costly legal and compliance departments approve all of this. It seems more stupidity and not right due diligence, it is something that should concern stockholders as well.

marcosdumay 2y ago
How do they approve the Windows's "we can upload any data from your computer at any time" terms? Corporation legal departments have been neglecting their jobs for a while now.
- wslh 2y ago
  I understand that Microsoft is not doing it right now but it was an statement?
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    It's at their privacy policy for Win8 and 10. At the context, it's natural to assume they meant to talk about error reporting, but this is not stated anywhere. And it's been there for a while, and they never clarified this point...
qarl 2y ago
I once had a startup that did image processing in the cloud. Our lawyers recommended changing the TOS to allow us to use the imagery. I strenuously disagreed, and tried to get them to explain their rationale for such a change. They never really provided a convincing answer. (Literally, they argued that the company may someday accidentally use unlicensed imagery, and we want to protect ourselves from that liability. I suggested that the better policy should simply be more careful with our customer's data.)

nalekberov 2y ago

Can’t you just block all traffic to Adobe products with tools like Little Snitch?

vitiral 2y ago

I guess it's time to amend contracts so that Big Tech Bro has rights to everything, no matter what

freedomben 2y ago

For anybody switching from Photoshop to GIMP, there are tons of different resources to help. There are books[1], video courses[2] (especially on Udemy), blogs, and just about anything else you can imagine. GIMP isn't a full replacement, but I do know several people who have made the switch. I bought "The Book of GIMP: A Complete Guide to Nearly Everything" and I didn't personally like it, but many people do. [1]: https://www.gimp.org/books/ https://www.gimp.org/books/ [2]: https://www.udemy.com/courses/search/?src=ukw&q=gimp https://www.udemy.com/courses/search/?src=ukw&q=gimp

weberer 2y ago
People coming from Photoshop would probably prefer Krita, which is also FOSS.
- freedomben 2y ago
  Yes thanks, that's a great point. I haven't had good luck with Krita personally, but I also haven't put hardly any time into it. I've heard very good things about it so I really need to give it some dedicated time.
- bbatha 2y ago
  They serve different workloads. Other than GIMP Affinity is also a great alternative, not FOSS, but buy it for life with an incredible price that includes feature updates.
misswaterfairy 2y ago
And if you need a commercial alternative, for professional shops that need/require it, Affinity Photo is very good. Serif only offers perpetual, per major version licensing (i.e. no subscription) and offers a 'universal' licence if you use multiple platforms (Windows, Mac, iOS). https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/ https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/

bigbacaloa 2y ago

[dead]

smrtinsert 2y ago

The AI generation of software seems to be turning into the largest erosion of privacy ever. It's all fun and games until a malevolent political party decides it wants access to your Windows and Photoshop history.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

sasha89 2y ago

[flagged]

t0bia_s 2y ago

You cannot even work offline. Only solution is cracked version to working with Adobe on field without internet connection.

coldcode 2y ago

This article has dropped off of HN while I was making a comment.

nicce 2y ago
Wonder what would be the reason for that? It is clearly highly interesting one and not total disinformation.
- yodon 2y ago
  It disappeared because people disagree on whether to upvote or downvote comments, or other similar signals of disagreement. When the HN algorithm sees signals like comments receiving large numbers of upvotes and downvotes simultaneously, or long strings of rapid back-and-forth tit-for-tat comments between posters, or etc, it interprets those signals as "this post is controversial." HN explicitly and intentionally downranks algorithmically identified controversial topics in order to reduce the odds commenters behave badly (which is disproportionately more likely in controversial topics). The HN algorithm is intentional about a primary goal of driving well behaved discussions, even knowing that means important controversial topics getting downranked. The fact that the disagreement here is likely centered around whether gimp is good or bad is irrelevant to the algorithm. It doesn't want people to get in the habit of behaving badly on HN, regardless of the topic.
  - qarl 2y ago
    So an entity can censor HN by simply spamming the comments with disagreement. Cool.
    - yodon 2y ago
      Or just flag it, which is much easier and quicker and hardly news that the feature is there
      - qarl 2y ago
        Cool.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

miniBill 2y ago

The main issue with "Cancel Adobe" is that it's very naïve to assume that a nontrivial percentage of people using it can realistically switch to something else.

dathinab 2y ago
yes but also by today there are a lot of good alternatives many more and much more mature ones then in the past
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  There's no alternative to Photoshop. And if you're going to say GIMP or Krita, you've never seriously worked with Photoshop.
  - berniedurfee 2y ago
    Same with Lightroom. I still use v4 and it’s still better than anything else available today. I try all the alternatives annually and nothing has as comprehensive and complete a toolset.
- genevra 2y ago
  Literally name one good alternative for Adobe Animate, After Effects, and Photoshop please
  - spectre3d 2y ago
    A good alternative to AE, especially for simpler stuff, is Apple Motion. It works in real time, unlike AE. I’ve chosen it over AE for all the animated titles I’ve worked on for the past 8 or so years and have had no issues. Opening AE to update old projects is a chore, never enjoyable. Motion is actually fun to use. I paid once, and they’ve been updating it for free since 2011.
    - genevra 2y ago

kome 2y ago

Stallman is right.

gizajob 2y ago
Metaphysically and morally, yeah. Getting the job done for things like photoshop replacements, no.

gavinhoward 2y ago

I've said it before [1], and I will say it again: This is why the industry needs to professionalize, with a code of ethics and regulations so that we can tell our bosses no when they tell us to do this stuff. https://gavinhoward.com/2023/11/how-to-fund-foss-save-it-from-the-cra-and-improve-cybersecurity/ https://gavinhoward.com/2023/11/how-to-fund-foss-save-it-fro... And our ethics must include safeguarding customer data from everyone, including ourselves. And this is why: https://gavinhoward.com/2023/11/your-loved-ones-are-prisoners-and-you-made-the-chain/ https://gavinhoward.com/2023/11/your-loved-ones-are-prisoner... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40603025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40603025

giraffe_lady 2y ago
Traditional engineers have a code of ethics and it prohibits them from misleading their clients, requires they take certain precautions to prevent unexpected harms. But it does not prevent them from making things intended to harm. They may still design bombs and warplanes, may make guns and bullets for their clients to sell, with no constraints on the final use to which they are applied. An engineering code of ethics would require us to avoid inadvertent data leaks, but would not constrain us from developing spyware, or programs intended to steal the work of users and profit from it. For that we need a moral position from which to say that these things are wrong, and courage to refuse to do them. We will not find precedent for this in traditional engineering, which has always refused to make this stand.
- gavinhoward 2y ago
  We do find it in healthcare and law, where doctors and lawyers have duties to their clients that include serving only their clients, not their employers. The equivalent in software would be that we don't gather data unless it directly serves the user, and we certainly don't let our employers sell it. We need to take lessons from multiple professions, not just professional engineering.

qwertox 2y ago

I have an Android app which I developed just for me. I use it to record bike rides, see weather forecasts, see who called on the landline and the like. It's not published nor uploaded to Google Play or elsewhere, because it is just for me. When I upgraded it today to a new version, my Pixel phone told me that I have to upload the app to Google, so that they can security-check it. Previously there was an option where you could select something like "don't check". It's somehow the same as with this Adobe issue. Google now has a copy of my app even though I just installed my app on my phone. If now a Google employee installs the app on a device to "check" it, he will be able to see my power consumption, see who called, listen to voice messages, and so on.

taxmeifyoucan 2y ago
Interesting, I am doing exactly the same thing with GrapheneOS and never had a problem. If you have a Pixel, I would strongly recommend to consider Graphene a degoogling it. You can also install via Fdroid or Obtainium and I don't see how their apps could be supported in Google Play
kohbo 2y ago
I have multiple personal apps that I've side loaded on my Pixel Fold. This hasn't come up for me. Are you sure there isn't more to this story?
- qwertox 2y ago
  Absolutely sure. It's this "Google Play Protect"-feature. I have multiple apps, and they used to trigger randomly these scan requests on upgrades for maybe two years, but with today's install it appears that they have changed how they deal with this, where you no longer have a choice. Maybe it's because it has extensive permissions wich I need in order to get access to my data usage, but that's not the point. Then again, it also happens with apps which don't require many permissions.
jhanschoo 2y ago
Are you referring to this: https://support.google.com/android/answer/2812853 https://support.google.com/android/answer/2812853 If so, do the directions mentioned there help? The situation you are describing is not morally the same. (edit: striking through this part ~~Adobe's desire for their customers' content is to use it to develop AI tools that Adobe can then resell to its customers.~~) The security checkup you are talking about is intended to combat a real problem that unsophisticated smartphone users are victim to. Adobe's request to access your content is not based out of intending to safeguard unsophisticated users.

davidmurdoch 2y ago

Sounds like great motivation for someone to write some software that auto generates junk images, or even better, terrifying and horrific images, that then get uploaded to Adobe, in order to taint their data.

troyvit 2y ago

The title of this piece recommends cancelling Adobe. If anybody has, what are they cancelling to? Our organization uses their audio tools among other things, and they're used to the polish and convenience they get from Adobe products.

jpc0 2y ago
> Our organization uses their audio tools among other things, and they're used to the polish and convenience they get from Adobe products. As a professional in audio with over a decade of experience... Adobe has ** audio tools. There are a lot of other tools that are significantly better, commercial ones, much older than Adobe's... Now for what Adobe is actually good at, which is not video nor audio, I'm not sure there is an alternative. I've heard things about Affinity but cannot tell you since all the people I know in graphics use Photoshop, illustrator, lightroom.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

HumblyTossed 2y ago

Vote with your wallets creators. You either accept or find another software.

berniedurfee 2y ago

Would it be legal to just “clone” Photoshop or Lightroom as a FOSS project? I mean create a nearly exact clone. Everything down to the layout, tools, menus, options, etc. Who would Adobe sue? Could they make it illegal to distribute?

deleted 2y ago

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scotty79 2y ago

How's that even legal. There should be laws about this.

deleted 2y ago

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foxandmouse 2y ago

Can someone please help me find some direction, I thought that adobe vindicated on this... if the claim still holds, it's pretty damning.. hell, if their generative ai wasn't so good they'd be obsolotere.. that said, they abused trust to be able to train models but no one seems to care...

cy6erlion 2y ago

Just use darktable and gimp.