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Microsoft starts testing ads in the Windows 11 Start menu

199 points by ashton314 3y ago

ChuckMcM 3y ago
This is such crap. Enshittification of the OS. I have once again lost all respect for Microsoft. Sigh
quattrofan 3y ago
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underseacables 3y ago
Linux Mint Cinnamon is a fine alternative to Windows, and it's free, combining a slick interface with familiarity for any windows user.
- Loughla 3y ago
  Mint is the easiest to transition to. I install that on all my elderly family's machines. Makes troubleshooting much easier. On my personal machine, I did just switch back to Windows last year. While gaming in Linux has come quite a way, there were just too many games that are still incompatible.
  - underseacables 3y ago
    My wife started with Mint, it was a good transition for her.
- WaxProlix 3y ago
  It'll only truly be great if it has a slick, integrated, functional WINE/Proton/whatever experience out of the box.
  - underseacables 3y ago
    Fair. I love Wine!
- readyman 3y ago
  Any windows user that doesn't need Photoshop or Word and has a load of regular spare time to troubleshoot rabdom problems.
  - djao 3y ago
    1. Word works just fine in a web browser. Yes, it's not the full featured version, but I don't need the full featured version. 2. I know a lot of people even on Windows who use Gimp because they get more value out of using Gimp for free than paying for an Adobe subscription. 3. I don't really see much in the way of random problems on Linux, but even if I did, I'll take that over the constant problems caused by ads embedded in the OS.
    - readyman 3y ago
      Both Photoshop and Word are industry standards. For Photoshop, one can't just swap it out, and if you think one can then that only shows you are not even a novice user, much less a professional who needs it for work.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        > Both Photoshop and Word are industry standards. For Photoshop, one can't just swap it out, Ah, I thought we were talking about normal users, not the sliver of professionals that use photoshop for their job. I bet djao thought the same thing. Which makes the rest of your comment a misaimed criticism.
      - djao 3y ago
        With all respect, only a very small minority of Windows users actually *need Photoshop for work.* If you are one of them, I fully agree, you need Photoshop. As for Word, I use Word (unwillingly) for work, and I am able to get what I need from just the web version. My "complicated" documents are typeset in LaTeX, not Word, and LaTeX is the standard in my industry.
    - underseacables 3y ago
      You don't even need Microsoft office. Libre office works wonderful and it's FREE.
DLA 3y ago
This is so ridiculous it hurts my soul. Hey Microsoft, maybe work on software quality and security and skip the ads. How long until an adversary figures out a way to inject something nasty through the ad network? Only a matter of time. I can’t wait for the Blackhat talk.
- grugagag 3y ago
  > How long until an adversary figures out a way to inject something nasty through the ad network? Only a matter of time. I can’t wait for the Blackhat talk. Microsoft don’t care, they want to serve their ads, sell your data to the highest bidder and to hell with the users.
- spydum 3y ago
  Malvertising was already bad enough at the browser level, now we gotta be concerned with the OS. Can't wait indeed..
- delfinom 3y ago
  They aren't ads like ads. They are promoted apps from the Microsoft store.
  - thesuperbigfrog 3y ago
    >> They aren't ads like ads. >> They are promoted apps from the Microsoft store. If you give Microsoft money and they promote your app, that is advertising.
woranl 3y ago
"The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have no taste and I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way" - Steve Jobs
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  https://youtu.be/UFcb-XF1RPQ https://youtu.be/UFcb-XF1RPQ
- paxys 3y ago
  Apple Finds Its Next Big Business: Showing Ads on Your iPhone (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-aapl-set-to-expand-advertising-bringing-ads-to-maps-tv-and-books-apps-l6tdqqmg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-...)
  - notnmeyer 3y ago
    from nearly 2 years ago. where are the ads?
    - gruez 3y ago
      From the linked article: >In the News and Stocks apps, the display ads are no different than what you might get on an ad-supported website (see above). [...] >On the App Store, display ads are currently shown in the search tab in the Suggested panel. Apple will also soon expand ads to the main Today tab and within third-party app download pages. Search ads in the App Store are a bit different: Developers can pay to have their app featured in results when a user searches terms like “car racing” or “basketball,” for instance.
      - andsoitis 3y ago
        that's in content, not in a system or app menu. totally different.
        3y ago
grugagag 3y ago
Will never upgrade to windows 11. It’s a downgrade really..
- albatrosstrophy 3y ago
  I wouldn't say it's a downgrade, but I had to run Windhawk and other mods just to make sure the start menu doesn't look like a phone's app drawer.
- kylec 3y ago
  Oh don't worry, Microsoft has tons of ads in Windows 10... for Windows 11: https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/11/24127497/microsoft-windows-10-upgrade-prompt-windows-11 https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/11/24127497/microsoft-window...
  - timothyduong 3y ago
    The frustrating part is that on my older Win10 laptop, it goes "This PC doesn't currently meeting the minimum system requirements to run Windows 11, Get the details and see if there are things you can do in the PC Health Check app." in the Windows Update section. Ok, I've installed that, and there's no way I can update to Windows 11, there's no TPM chip. Go back to Windows Update, the prompt is still there, it has no connection to the fact that my laptop cannot physically update to Win11 nor does it know I've run the PC Health Check app multiple times. Like, seriously? Stop wasting my screen real-estate with an ad for a product that cannot be used on the device. Hitting X makes it go away until my next reboot.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    Not seeing a lot of ads in Win10 LTSC IoT...
- TiredOfLife 3y ago
  This is literally about bringing this feature from Windows 10 to 11.
adamtaylor_13 3y ago
This was so inevitable it’s comical. Microsoft has been the face of Enshittification in my mind for years now but hoooo boy does this put the icing on the cake. With gaming on Linux finally becoming fairly mainstream I just cannot justify using windows anymore. There’s literally no reason to use a Microsoft product in 2024.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  That’s a leap. Microsoft makes plenty of things that aren’t Windows. And let’s not conflate “literally no reason to use” with “literally no alternative for”. Microsoft is big. There are pockets that deliver value to people. But, to be clear, I’ve not willingly used Windows since 2008.
- genewitch 3y ago
  The only issues i've had with windows 11 in six months is with an enterprise grade dual 10gbit network card, and even that isn't a windows thing - whenever i join voice chat on discord it completely nukes the network connection with a "No Resources" error from "ping.exe". Discord support threw up their hands and said "reinstall the bleeding edge version or contact the developer support directly here:" It suffers about the same amount from my setup of dual monitors (as winten and linux) but one is 4k DP and the other FHD HDMI and the hilarity from display scaling (or DPI scaling or whatever), but other than those two thorns i haven't had any issues, and i abuse my computer. my list of available soundcards has a scroll bar on it, for instance. I read, game, and do ML inference on it whenever i use it, and it's been solid. However, i paid next to nothing for 3 win 11 pro licenses, so my opinion is a bit biased. if i had paid $750 for those licenses (or whatever it costs, it's a free download, michael, how much could it possibly cost) i'd probably have a different opinion about the thorns i experience. I used to run windows in a qemu VM with GPU and USB passthrough, on gentoo. I'm very used to thorns in computing. amd 5950x, 128GB mem, nv 3090 gpu, 20TB (16+1+1+1+1 spindle/ssd).
smileson2 3y ago
[dead]
jrm4 3y ago
At this point, no surprises. I'm not even mad anymore, they've shown us who they are. The question is -- will IT workers and professionals in the industry be able to grow a spine and say "enough is enough?" It's, of course, more about their atrocious security practices, but this should really be a good kick in the pants about the whole thing.
- andy99 3y ago
  At least now there are options that mean there's almost no reason one would ever use Windows. I'm more worried about these practices infesting the next round of software, currently on track to be AI tools. Microsoft's behavior needs to be a cautionary example of why open source alternatives and variety generally are so important, and we need to reject regulations and corporate maneuvering that would prevent real variety in whatever is next. Companies like microsoft have learned their lesson about not taking open source seriously and not locking in their customers enough, and they are working hard to fix their mistakes for the next time around.
  - wilsonnb3 3y ago
    > there's almost no reason one would ever use Windows. And yet Windows has 46% usage for commercial developers and 60% for personal use, according to the stack overflow 2023 survey. About 70% total market share of desktop OS’s and 20% of servers. If you ever find yourself thinking that people don’t use Windows, you are in a bubble.
    - jrm4 3y ago
      Would, not will Reasonable to infer OP meant -- "In a world where a significant number of people meaningfully knew that Windows/Mac aren't the only game in town"
- philipov 3y ago
  Please, don't stop being mad. We need people to stay mad about this!
- 3y ago
huytersd 3y ago
It’s just so… cheap and tacky.
- xyst 3y ago
  It’s been like this for a long time. I’ll never understand why businesses would use this garbage os. Even if it’s ad free with Pro or Business editions
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
This is easier to turn off than the ads on the Ubuntu motd. The histrionics are weird.
- arcanemachiner 3y ago
  Yes, a decade+ of enshittification will provoke such a reaction.
- justinclift 3y ago
  Places that care enough are moving away from Ubuntu due to that too. For example, just recently I expanded the supported OS list from just Ubuntu to many others: https://github.com/getredash/setup/?tab=readme-ov-file#tested https://github.com/getredash/setup/?tab=readme-ov-file#teste... We've also rebuilt our Docker images to use Debian and Alpine as the base (there are a few different images), and coming up we'll probably change our baseline development platform from Ubuntu to Debian or similar (TBD). When that's complete, Ubuntu will be just one choice among many for our users, rather than the only supported choice.
neilv 3y ago
Debian Stable (Linux) is here for you: https://www.debian.org/CD/ https://www.debian.org/CD/
- wredue 3y ago
  Your apps being perpetually 7 years behind everything is not a great desktop experience. I’ve tried. I’m not trying again.
  - hall0ween 3y ago
    This sounds like a skewed perspective. For instance, I use Proton Mail. Proton Mail released a UI for Linux, Windows, and Apple a few months ago. Does this mean my Linux version of the Proton Mail app is 7 years behind?
  - userbinator 3y ago
    7 years ago, the Windows experience was a lot better than it is today.
  - michaelmrose 3y ago
    Debian releases normally come out every 2 years. The last version came out in 2023 with the kernel version that came out 1.5 years ago, a libreoffice version from the same time frame and a firefox version from 10 months ago (ESR with up to date security fixes). Debian is perpetually 1-2 years behind.
  - neilv 3y ago
    "7 years" is intended as hyperbole? On average, your Debian Stable versions will be 1 year old, plus security updates. Debian Stable keeps everything stable, and something I want a newer version of (say, the latest version of some browser, for developing with a new feature), I just install separately. Everything else is very low drama.
  - dlahoda 3y ago
    may be ubuntu? i tried it 6 years ago, and 8 and 10, and other linuxes like suse before. never stick. but now linux works like magic. i upgraded 3rd laptop in 3 years. just moved my nvme and all worked, even kernel and drivers in place upgrades. i used dell and msi laptops. i was shocked that it works well on few month old released msi laptop. dell had touch screen, and it was working too.
xyst 3y ago
Switched to nixOS long ago. Haven’t looked back. Use windows in VM for occasional gaming.
- tombert 3y ago
  Nixos kind of bothers me, not for anything that it did wrong, but for the fact that it’s so obviously the “correct” way of doing things to me that it’s annoying that it’s not the default in every system. Its declarative nature is so much easier to work with, and doing the tmpfs as root trick makes it more fun to experiment with the knowledge that you won’t break anything that can’t be fixed with a reboot. I would really like to get my T9 MacBook on Nixos but I have had a lot of issues when I attempted that, and suspend is still broken.
  - genewitch 3y ago
    I tried using nix maybe 8 or 9 years ago (and further back if memory serves) and i was going to make question mark faces at you, but i asked chatgpt how to install and use firefox on nix and it's `nix-env -iA nixos.firefox` which strikes me as... fine? It confuses me because how is that different or better than pacman -S or apt install or emerge -va? Especially portage?!
    - tombert 3y ago
      That particular command isn’t really different than pacman or apt. Most of the time, though, with Nix, you don’t install stuff that way. In Nixos, there’s a configuration.nix file, and you add the package you want to to that file (along with all the other system configs). Then you effectively “rebuild” the OS based on that configuration, and a snapshot is created. Since this configuration is just text, it can be version controlled and backed up to GitHub or something. If your hard drive crashes or something, you can reinstall Nixos from the config in like fifteen minutes. If you just need the program temporarily, you can do “nix-shell -p neovim”, which will create a temporary shell where neon can be executed. Once you exit the shell, the binary is unlinked and will be eventually garbage collected. There’s more, but the tl;dr is that can make stuff a lot more declarative while also allowing for stuff to be more ephemeral.
walterbell 3y ago
> Microsoft is seeking feedback on the changes, so it’s possible the company could decide to ditch these ads in development builds of Windows 11 if there’s enough feedback that suggests they’re not going to be a popular addition. Just Say No. Windows leadership recently changed for the better. Hopefully these misguided ads are a vestige of the outgoing leader, who previously lead consumer advertising, but has now been pushed out. Microsoft has a once-in-a-generation opportunity with Arm laptops based on Qualcomm/Nuvia (ex-Apple), this is not the time to squander that opportunity with distractions like advertising. https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/28/24114362/microsoft-windows-surface-reorg-ai-pcs-report https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/28/24114362/microsoft-window... After Windows and Surface chief Panos Panay departed Microsoft last year, the software giant quickly split his two divisions into two different teams. It was a move designed to push Windows engineers to focus on more web and AI features under Mikhail Parakhin, who was previously responsible for Bing and ads. It didn’t work out. Six months after that shake-up, Windows and Surface are back together under a new leader, following frustrations from the very top of Microsoft.. Parakhin was responsible for Microsoft’s reborn advertising business and all of the company’s ad-based consumer businesses.. the web experiences team that Parakhin led had a different culture from the rest of Microsoft that often resulted in micromanaging and “insane deadlines” for projects.. The Windows and Web Experiences (WWE) team that Parakhin briefly oversaw also developed the malware-like Bing pop-ups we’ve seen appear in Windows recently.. The new Windows and Surface chief, Davuluri, is experienced when it comes to the combination of hardware and software that Microsoft needs to get right in this new era of AI. Davuluri has worked at Microsoft for more than 23 years and has been at the heart of Surface engineering. He was deeply involved in the company’s work with Qualcomm and AMD to create custom Surface processors.
- kevincox 3y ago
  LOL "Yes we love the ads" said no user ever. If they had any intention of listening to user feedback they never would have started this project because the feedback is obviously going to be negative. At the very "best" they will cherry-pick a few metrics that show that it is a "popular addition".
  - 3y ago
rappatic 3y ago
If I’m not mistaken, it’s illegal in the US to place advertisements alongside content without distinguishing them. I don’t see a marker in the screenshot; is this simply a problem with the beta?
- paxys 3y ago
  The article calls them ads, but in the linked blog post Microsoft only calls them "recommended apps". There's a difference between the two, and the latter doesn't have to be marked as sponsored if Microsoft is coming up with the recommendation themselves.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Sounds like a "difference" that needs testing in court. :)
  - sedatk 3y ago
    Every ad is a recommended product. I don’t see why the distinction matters.
    - paxys 3y ago
      The distinction matters when the advertiser is paying for the slot. Do you not see a difference between sponsored results in Google search that came via paid ads and the rest of the top results that came via their own algorithm?
      - sedatk 3y ago
        Your use of the word “algorithm” carries a heavy load there. What’s that algorithm? How do we know paid ads aren’t prioritized or monetized there? Where’s Microsoft’s promise on clear distinction for paid ads? Why does The Verge and Engadget call them “effectively ads”? What do you know that they don’t know?
        3y ago
jsheard 3y ago
What an incredible coincidence that they introduce ads in the official start menu around the same time that they begin blocking third party start menu replacements. https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-blocks-even-more-customization-apps-in-windows-11-version-24h2/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-blocks-even-more-custo... They do have some legitimate reason to want to block specific versions of those apps if they cause stability issues on a new build of Windows, but at least in the case of StartAllBack the developer noted it isn't targeted at a specific version this time, it's a wildcard block. https://twitter.com/StartIsBack/status/1776555154701205877 https://twitter.com/StartIsBack/status/1776555154701205877
- pesus 3y ago
  Lovely! I rely on StartAllBack to make my Windows 11 work machine actually useful. At least renaming the executable works for now. Microsoft seems hellbent on making their products worse and worse. I guess this is more incentive for me to get a new job not working in a Windows shop.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    And/or introduce non-Windows platforms into the place for any reason you can get away with. :)
  - kyriakos 3y ago
    Are you using an insider build? It's only blocked in a pre release version. We don't know if this is a problem that will be in 24H2 final version
- kevincox 3y ago
  I mean it isn't a coincidence. But this framing is pretty negative. These apps broke and started crashing because they were updating the start menu. Probably related to the addition of ads. Then they blocked these versions because they were crashing. It doesn't seem like they are making any effort to block versions that don't cause crashes. (Other than maybe making it a bit harder to keep updating to new internal APIs) It really doesn't seem like they are purposely breaking these tools so that more people see the ads. It is probably such a tiny market that they don't care at this point. They'll definitely ship the ads to 99.9% of users first before they worry about this unaddressed market.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
All the more reason to wipe the os and install linux
nogridbag 3y ago
Even if the new Snapdragon X Elite were a generation ahead of Apple's M3, I still wouldn't buy a Windows laptop because of shenanigans like this. I bought into the hype with the original Surface Book (mine is completely unusable due to hardware defects with the hinge).
- justinclift 3y ago
  Do you have a local electronics shop nearby, or maybe a makerspace with some electronics enthusiast members? Asking because there might be reasonable options for getting it functional again without too much hassle. :)
- linsomniac 3y ago
  My MIL has one of the Surface Laptops, and recently brought it to me because the battery was bulging. I looked into it, and what a maintenance nightmare. One guy on youtube had a battery fail under warranty and they sent him a whole new one, and told him to just recycle the old one; apparently even Microsoft doesn't want to repair them. They keyboard/trackpad panel is alcantara, and is glued to the bottom cover (or was until the batteries swelled). I had to cut and pry this later off. But even then, the connector for the battery requires you to remove basically all the components (speakers, heatsinks, fans, wifi card, a bunch of RF shielding that is micro-spot welded in place, the display, the motherboard. The battery connector is a pad that the back of the motherboard has contacts that mate to it. I told my in-laws that there was a better than even chance that I'd destroy it while doing the repair, and I'd give it a shot, but they should be prepared to buy a new one. They were ready to go buy one instead of me doing the repair, but I told them I was happy to do it and went ahead and was able to get'r'done. I guess some of that is the price of it being so thin and light. My MIL got it because she's kind of frail and wanted something super light. Which it definitely is. It's a marvel of engineering. But, ultimately, disposable.
bmitc 3y ago
It's unbelievable that whoever runs Windows seems to be diametrically opposed to the rest of the company. It's a decent operating system apparently ran by bean counters.
seized 3y ago
Good luck on their testing. I just swapped to a MacBook for $job and my last Windows 10 VM will be gone as soon as I finish migrating from Lightroom to DigiKam, maybe in a week or two. Everything else has been moved to Fedora Kinoite, including the kids gaming computer and the wife's workstation.
- 7thaccount 3y ago
  This is something I'm seeing a lot more now. More companies are allowing users to select Macs instead of Windows and a lot of people take them up on the offer.
  - 93po 3y ago
    Part of my salary negotiation for my last three jobs has been requiring that I get a new macbook, even if the default for everyone else is windows laptops. It hasn't been a problem so far and my life has been significantly improved by not using windows machines
comeonbro 3y ago
What is the best opinionated, minimal, happy-path-only, official-feeling landing page for Linux? A quick search right now didn't bring up anything I could endorse to a normie.
- steelframe 3y ago
  https://www.google.com/chromebook/chrome-os/ https://www.google.com/chromebook/chrome-os/
  - kweingar 3y ago
    Normally if I were recommending Linux to a friend, I would encourage them to use their existing computer rather than going out and buying new hardware just for Linux. ChromeOS Flex might fit the bill though, and the installation process is probably the most straightforward and handhold-y out of the Linuxes. https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_uk/os/chromeosflex/ https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_uk/os/chromeosflex/
    - analog31 3y ago
      I recently installed Chrome OS Flex on an old Lenovo laptop. It's really quite snappy. I did it mainly out of curiosity. It was easy to install and bring up for the first time, and it's not loaded with crapware. For a lot of home users, a "the browser is the new OS." If they're doing everything with cloud apps, then they really don't need to interact with a conventional desktop very much. Assuming they don't run Windows software such as games. Battery life is no different than it was with Windows. Linux mode was easy to set up, and hard for me to damage. ;-) And it doesn't seem to do anything to the Chrome OS machine, so you can wipe it and start over without re-installing the entire machine. Jupyter Notebook runs just fine, so I'm pretty much all set. Jupyter is practically my OS these days.
- justinclift 3y ago
  Maybe the Kubuntu site? It seems targetted towards users in the right kind of way: https://kubuntu.org/feature-tour/ https://kubuntu.org/feature-tour/
tombert 3y ago
You know, Apple isn’t a company that I love, and I have reasons to actively hate them, but it would be immensely surprising if they trying to pull this shit. I haven’t used Windows in any serious capacity in about 15 years, swapping between macOS and Linux every couple years, and I am glad to not have any of my workflow based around Windows now, because I don’t want ads to be blasted in my face. Once my current Mac breaks, I am probably going to go back to Nixos, but never Windows. Edit: Appears I was wrong. I have never noticed the ads but people are pointing out they are plastered around a lot, at least in some capacity. I don’t like that either. Maybe I should move over to Linux sooner than I thought, at least on my laptop.
paxys 3y ago
The article calls them ads but in the linked blog post Microsoft only calls them "recommended apps". Pretty big difference between the two. Every OS does app recommendations. Go to the search bar on your iPhone and you'll see recommendations there as well.
- two_handfuls 3y ago
  I don’t. Also, calling those ads sound correct to me.
- Shawnecy 3y ago
  Did the app authors pay for their apps to be recommended? If so, then it's still an ad.
  - paxys 3y ago
    Nowhere does it say that they did
- orwin 3y ago
  > Every OS does app recommendations No. I reinstalled a new OS when Ubuntu started putting text "suggestions" in my terminal, and ads are much more nefarious in term of resource consumption and attention whoring. The only reason i got through the hoops of installing a Fdroid was the google app store ads.
osigurdson 3y ago
Old saying If you pay for it you are the customer. If free, you are the product being sold. New saying Pay up and don't complain about the ads.
- trynumber9 3y ago
  But I paid for a Windows license and they're still doing it
  - throwiforgtnlzy 3y ago
    A retail Windows license isn't the same as an enterprise Windows license. Retails Windows licenses started with ads for OneDrive and Office in Settings, but now that they're reverting to their old, shameless ways, they're putting ads everywhere else too for retail users. With a Windows Enterprise license, all of the ads can be turned off, or at least that was the practice.
    - trynumber9 3y ago
      It's Windows 11 Pro. How do I buy an enterprise license?
      - throwiforgtnlzy 3y ago
        Sorry, I'm not your VAR rep. https://letmegoogleforyou.com/?q=buy%20windows%2011%20enterprise https://letmegoogleforyou.com/?q=buy%20windows%2011%20enterp...
        trynumber9 3y ago
        That is what I thought. "Contact Sales". You can't without a contract. So advert-ridden Windows is unavoidable for consumers even if they paid $200.
- npteljes 3y ago
  It's a bad saying. There are, and have been for a long time, many counter-examples. In case of television, people pay for it and they are "the product" as well. In case of Free Software, it's free, and the users are not sold at all.
jonnycomputer 3y ago
Frankly, I find inserting ads into the user interface of an operating system an affront, particularly for people who pay money for the OS.
- heresie-dabord 3y ago
  The "mature" state of consumerism will be that you/we will see advertising everywhere and have ads forced upon us. And if you/we object, we will be told that our desire for living ad-free is as absurd as our desire for privacy.
  - jonnycomputer 3y ago
    I paid for Amazon Prime; shows were ad-free. Then they announced that they'd have ads. So I quit Prime. I'm not gonna pay to be advertised to. Other streamers tiered options make sense to me, and if I had to I'd pare down the service to meet budget.
jgalt212 3y ago
next up, OS-level gambling.
- pndy 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure they did include some kind of achievements and rewards system in Windows 10.
Crontab 3y ago
Ads in the Start Menu? That is a fucking terrible idea.
GoofGarage 3y ago
Figured I'd mention an open source guide of mine here, as I expect I'll have a way to disable these ads without any third-party tools, as I have done to address all the other things so far: ------ So I had many of the same concerns regarding Windows 11's nonsense when it came out, but I sat down, learned how to clean it up, and put a Creative Commons open source guide for others to follow. I knew many other reluctant friends who are senior devs at prolific companies in the tech space, and with my guide they seem to have no real remaining complaints. It covers both the initial installation, as well as all my post-install recommendations. It eliminates I believe all the tracking, adware, suggestions, Cortana, feeding the Bing/ChatGPT machine, telemetry, etc. Absolutely nothing breaks. No need for a Microsoft account. It should be straightforward and to-the-click/keystroke. https://github.com/GoofGarage/Win11Clean https://github.com/GoofGarage/Win11Clean If there’s any bugbears, please create an issue. I’ll be responding to them every few weeks, and I try to update the release every 3 months.
deleted 3y ago
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dcow 3y ago
Before everyone pulls out the pitchforks… 1. Swipe down on your iOS home screen to bring up search. 2. Type the first few letters of a popular app that’s not on your phone. For me that’s “tik”. 3. Observe an advertisement from apple’s app store to download the app. This is what Microsoft is doing. Do I like it? Not really. But there’s precedent and everyone seems fine with this UX on iOS.
- bromuro 3y ago
  I don’t see any ad from apple , but search results from Notes, Mails, etc.
- stefandesu 3y ago
  I don't get these. Maybe because I messed with the iOS settings? Even if I type "tiktok" in full, I only get one photo (I guess a screenshot that contains it) as well as a recently accessed website that mentioned it. And the "Search App Store" button, no ad.
- mikl 3y ago
  Ad? Unless you’re seeing something other than what I’m seeing, that’s just a search result from the app store. Apple is not charging the app owner for that. And if you don’t want the search (aka Spotlight) to suggest apps from the App Store, you can disable that in Settings -> Siri & Search -> Content from Apple.
  - dcow 3y ago
    Well yeah this is what TFA is calling an ad. There’s either a clear anti Microsoft slant in the reporting, or this is a relevant useful “ad”.
- timeon 3y ago
  I have old iOS so I do not have this. Siri is suggesting only installed apps. In which version came this change? I hope it will not come to macOS as well.
- TiredOfLife 3y ago
LASR 3y ago
The tabloid celebrity “news” garbage in the start menu is egregious already. They want to stuff more? I honestly cannot believe a $3T business needs this bit of ad space.
guru4consulting 3y ago
Both Apple and Microsoft are already trillion dollar companies. Why do they get so much greedy to get even more money with ads? This also ends up giving a very bad user experience to their billions of customers, pretty much the entire planet. Why would their board members even consider or approve these kinds of despicable practices? are they doing this to earn even more compensation on top of their already high compensation? I am just pissed off with this extremely bigger companies trying to get even richer with all these dirty strategies.
- leecoursey 3y ago
  Unfortunately, investors in publicly-traded companies don't reward size, they reward GROWTH. And apparently, placing ads in a space with lots of eyeballs and no existing ads looks like tempting low-hanging fruit to every organization sooner or later.
8chanAnon 3y ago
Who uses the Start Menu? I click on that maybe once in a blue moon to maybe uninstall something. This is just another reason to start doing the Linux thing once this Win10 machine needs to be replaced. Ironically, the reason why I didn't get into Linux is because whatever it was that I installed long ago looked the same as Windows and it had a Start Menu (by a different name). Yeah, I guess I could have reconfigured or replaced the desktop manager but it wasn't worth the bother at the time. The calculus, however, is changing rapidly.
rajishx 3y ago
I am pretty much os agnostics, i sure do enjoy linux because of being so customizable and i am quite good at it but i don't mind using OSX or others if there was.. but when it come to windows, i can't for my life of it using it.. it's very slugggish for me (compared to the arch distro i have on that same laptop) and it's unbearably intrusive (so many shortcuts are owned by the OS that i can't disable)

199 points by ashton314 3y ago

ChuckMcM 3y ago

This is such crap. Enshittification of the OS. I have once again lost all respect for Microsoft. Sigh

quattrofan 3y ago

[dead]

underseacables 3y ago

Linux Mint Cinnamon is a fine alternative to Windows, and it's free, combining a slick interface with familiarity for any windows user.

Loughla 3y ago
Mint is the easiest to transition to. I install that on all my elderly family's machines. Makes troubleshooting much easier. On my personal machine, I did just switch back to Windows last year. While gaming in Linux has come quite a way, there were just too many games that are still incompatible.
- underseacables 3y ago
  My wife started with Mint, it was a good transition for her.
WaxProlix 3y ago
It'll only truly be great if it has a slick, integrated, functional WINE/Proton/whatever experience out of the box.
- underseacables 3y ago
  Fair. I love Wine!
readyman 3y ago
Any windows user that doesn't need Photoshop or Word and has a load of regular spare time to troubleshoot rabdom problems.
- djao 3y ago
  1. Word works just fine in a web browser. Yes, it's not the full featured version, but I don't need the full featured version. 2. I know a lot of people even on Windows who use Gimp because they get more value out of using Gimp for free than paying for an Adobe subscription. 3. I don't really see much in the way of random problems on Linux, but even if I did, I'll take that over the constant problems caused by ads embedded in the OS.
  - readyman 3y ago
    Both Photoshop and Word are industry standards. For Photoshop, one can't just swap it out, and if you think one can then that only shows you are not even a novice user, much less a professional who needs it for work.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      > Both Photoshop and Word are industry standards. For Photoshop, one can't just swap it out, Ah, I thought we were talking about normal users, not the sliver of professionals that use photoshop for their job. I bet djao thought the same thing. Which makes the rest of your comment a misaimed criticism.
    - djao 3y ago
      With all respect, only a very small minority of Windows users actually *need Photoshop for work.* If you are one of them, I fully agree, you need Photoshop. As for Word, I use Word (unwillingly) for work, and I am able to get what I need from just the web version. My "complicated" documents are typeset in LaTeX, not Word, and LaTeX is the standard in my industry.
  - underseacables 3y ago
    You don't even need Microsoft office. Libre office works wonderful and it's FREE.

DLA 3y ago

This is so ridiculous it hurts my soul. Hey Microsoft, maybe work on software quality and security and skip the ads. How long until an adversary figures out a way to inject something nasty through the ad network? Only a matter of time. I can’t wait for the Blackhat talk.

grugagag 3y ago
> How long until an adversary figures out a way to inject something nasty through the ad network? Only a matter of time. I can’t wait for the Blackhat talk. Microsoft don’t care, they want to serve their ads, sell your data to the highest bidder and to hell with the users.
spydum 3y ago
Malvertising was already bad enough at the browser level, now we gotta be concerned with the OS. Can't wait indeed..
delfinom 3y ago
They aren't ads like ads. They are promoted apps from the Microsoft store.
- thesuperbigfrog 3y ago
  >> They aren't ads like ads. >> They are promoted apps from the Microsoft store. If you give Microsoft money and they promote your app, that is advertising.

woranl 3y ago

"The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have no taste and I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way" - Steve Jobs

shrimp_emoji 3y ago
https://youtu.be/UFcb-XF1RPQ https://youtu.be/UFcb-XF1RPQ
paxys 3y ago
Apple Finds Its Next Big Business: Showing Ads on Your iPhone (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-aapl-set-to-expand-advertising-bringing-ads-to-maps-tv-and-books-apps-l6tdqqmg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-...)
- notnmeyer 3y ago
  from nearly 2 years ago. where are the ads?
  - gruez 3y ago
    From the linked article: >In the News and Stocks apps, the display ads are no different than what you might get on an ad-supported website (see above). [...] >On the App Store, display ads are currently shown in the search tab in the Suggested panel. Apple will also soon expand ads to the main Today tab and within third-party app download pages. Search ads in the App Store are a bit different: Developers can pay to have their app featured in results when a user searches terms like “car racing” or “basketball,” for instance.
    - andsoitis 3y ago
      that's in content, not in a system or app menu. totally different.
      - 3y ago

grugagag 3y ago

Will never upgrade to windows 11. It’s a downgrade really..

albatrosstrophy 3y ago
I wouldn't say it's a downgrade, but I had to run Windhawk and other mods just to make sure the start menu doesn't look like a phone's app drawer.
kylec 3y ago
Oh don't worry, Microsoft has tons of ads in Windows 10... for Windows 11: https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/11/24127497/microsoft-windows-10-upgrade-prompt-windows-11 https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/11/24127497/microsoft-window...
- timothyduong 3y ago
  The frustrating part is that on my older Win10 laptop, it goes "This PC doesn't currently meeting the minimum system requirements to run Windows 11, Get the details and see if there are things you can do in the PC Health Check app." in the Windows Update section. Ok, I've installed that, and there's no way I can update to Windows 11, there's no TPM chip. Go back to Windows Update, the prompt is still there, it has no connection to the fact that my laptop cannot physically update to Win11 nor does it know I've run the PC Health Check app multiple times. Like, seriously? Stop wasting my screen real-estate with an ad for a product that cannot be used on the device. Hitting X makes it go away until my next reboot.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  Not seeing a lot of ads in Win10 LTSC IoT...
TiredOfLife 3y ago
This is literally about bringing this feature from Windows 10 to 11.

adamtaylor_13 3y ago

This was so inevitable it’s comical. Microsoft has been the face of Enshittification in my mind for years now but hoooo boy does this put the icing on the cake. With gaming on Linux finally becoming fairly mainstream I just cannot justify using windows anymore. There’s literally no reason to use a Microsoft product in 2024.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
That’s a leap. Microsoft makes plenty of things that aren’t Windows. And let’s not conflate “literally no reason to use” with “literally no alternative for”. Microsoft is big. There are pockets that deliver value to people. But, to be clear, I’ve not willingly used Windows since 2008.
genewitch 3y ago
The only issues i've had with windows 11 in six months is with an enterprise grade dual 10gbit network card, and even that isn't a windows thing - whenever i join voice chat on discord it completely nukes the network connection with a "No Resources" error from "ping.exe". Discord support threw up their hands and said "reinstall the bleeding edge version or contact the developer support directly here:" It suffers about the same amount from my setup of dual monitors (as winten and linux) but one is 4k DP and the other FHD HDMI and the hilarity from display scaling (or DPI scaling or whatever), but other than those two thorns i haven't had any issues, and i abuse my computer. my list of available soundcards has a scroll bar on it, for instance. I read, game, and do ML inference on it whenever i use it, and it's been solid. However, i paid next to nothing for 3 win 11 pro licenses, so my opinion is a bit biased. if i had paid $750 for those licenses (or whatever it costs, it's a free download, michael, how much could it possibly cost) i'd probably have a different opinion about the thorns i experience. I used to run windows in a qemu VM with GPU and USB passthrough, on gentoo. I'm very used to thorns in computing. amd 5950x, 128GB mem, nv 3090 gpu, 20TB (16+1+1+1+1 spindle/ssd).

smileson2 3y ago

[dead]

jrm4 3y ago

At this point, no surprises. I'm not even mad anymore, they've shown us who they are. The question is -- will IT workers and professionals in the industry be able to grow a spine and say "enough is enough?" It's, of course, more about their atrocious security practices, but this should really be a good kick in the pants about the whole thing.

andy99 3y ago
At least now there are options that mean there's almost no reason one would ever use Windows. I'm more worried about these practices infesting the next round of software, currently on track to be AI tools. Microsoft's behavior needs to be a cautionary example of why open source alternatives and variety generally are so important, and we need to reject regulations and corporate maneuvering that would prevent real variety in whatever is next. Companies like microsoft have learned their lesson about not taking open source seriously and not locking in their customers enough, and they are working hard to fix their mistakes for the next time around.
- wilsonnb3 3y ago
  > there's almost no reason one would ever use Windows. And yet Windows has 46% usage for commercial developers and 60% for personal use, according to the stack overflow 2023 survey. About 70% total market share of desktop OS’s and 20% of servers. If you ever find yourself thinking that people don’t use Windows, you are in a bubble.
  - jrm4 3y ago
    Would, not will Reasonable to infer OP meant -- "In a world where a significant number of people meaningfully knew that Windows/Mac aren't the only game in town"
philipov 3y ago
Please, don't stop being mad. We need people to stay mad about this!
3y ago

huytersd 3y ago

It’s just so… cheap and tacky.

xyst 3y ago
It’s been like this for a long time. I’ll never understand why businesses would use this garbage os. Even if it’s ad free with Pro or Business editions

add-sub-mul-div 3y ago

This is easier to turn off than the ads on the Ubuntu motd. The histrionics are weird.

arcanemachiner 3y ago
Yes, a decade+ of enshittification will provoke such a reaction.
justinclift 3y ago
Places that care enough are moving away from Ubuntu due to that too. For example, just recently I expanded the supported OS list from just Ubuntu to many others: https://github.com/getredash/setup/?tab=readme-ov-file#tested https://github.com/getredash/setup/?tab=readme-ov-file#teste... We've also rebuilt our Docker images to use Debian and Alpine as the base (there are a few different images), and coming up we'll probably change our baseline development platform from Ubuntu to Debian or similar (TBD). When that's complete, Ubuntu will be just one choice among many for our users, rather than the only supported choice.

neilv 3y ago

Debian Stable (Linux) is here for you: https://www.debian.org/CD/ https://www.debian.org/CD/

wredue 3y ago
Your apps being perpetually 7 years behind everything is not a great desktop experience. I’ve tried. I’m not trying again.
- hall0ween 3y ago
  This sounds like a skewed perspective. For instance, I use Proton Mail. Proton Mail released a UI for Linux, Windows, and Apple a few months ago. Does this mean my Linux version of the Proton Mail app is 7 years behind?
- userbinator 3y ago
  7 years ago, the Windows experience was a lot better than it is today.
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  Debian releases normally come out every 2 years. The last version came out in 2023 with the kernel version that came out 1.5 years ago, a libreoffice version from the same time frame and a firefox version from 10 months ago (ESR with up to date security fixes). Debian is perpetually 1-2 years behind.
- neilv 3y ago
  "7 years" is intended as hyperbole? On average, your Debian Stable versions will be 1 year old, plus security updates. Debian Stable keeps everything stable, and something I want a newer version of (say, the latest version of some browser, for developing with a new feature), I just install separately. Everything else is very low drama.
- dlahoda 3y ago
  may be ubuntu? i tried it 6 years ago, and 8 and 10, and other linuxes like suse before. never stick. but now linux works like magic. i upgraded 3rd laptop in 3 years. just moved my nvme and all worked, even kernel and drivers in place upgrades. i used dell and msi laptops. i was shocked that it works well on few month old released msi laptop. dell had touch screen, and it was working too.

xyst 3y ago

Switched to nixOS long ago. Haven’t looked back. Use windows in VM for occasional gaming.

tombert 3y ago
Nixos kind of bothers me, not for anything that it did wrong, but for the fact that it’s so obviously the “correct” way of doing things to me that it’s annoying that it’s not the default in every system. Its declarative nature is so much easier to work with, and doing the tmpfs as root trick makes it more fun to experiment with the knowledge that you won’t break anything that can’t be fixed with a reboot. I would really like to get my T9 MacBook on Nixos but I have had a lot of issues when I attempted that, and suspend is still broken.
- genewitch 3y ago
  I tried using nix maybe 8 or 9 years ago (and further back if memory serves) and i was going to make question mark faces at you, but i asked chatgpt how to install and use firefox on nix and it's `nix-env -iA nixos.firefox` which strikes me as... fine? It confuses me because how is that different or better than pacman -S or apt install or emerge -va? Especially portage?!
  - tombert 3y ago
    That particular command isn’t really different than pacman or apt. Most of the time, though, with Nix, you don’t install stuff that way. In Nixos, there’s a configuration.nix file, and you add the package you want to to that file (along with all the other system configs). Then you effectively “rebuild” the OS based on that configuration, and a snapshot is created. Since this configuration is just text, it can be version controlled and backed up to GitHub or something. If your hard drive crashes or something, you can reinstall Nixos from the config in like fifteen minutes. If you just need the program temporarily, you can do “nix-shell -p neovim”, which will create a temporary shell where neon can be executed. Once you exit the shell, the binary is unlinked and will be eventually garbage collected. There’s more, but the tl;dr is that can make stuff a lot more declarative while also allowing for stuff to be more ephemeral.

walterbell 3y ago

> Microsoft is seeking feedback on the changes, so it’s possible the company could decide to ditch these ads in development builds of Windows 11 if there’s enough feedback that suggests they’re not going to be a popular addition. Just Say No. Windows leadership recently changed for the better. Hopefully these misguided ads are a vestige of the outgoing leader, who previously lead consumer advertising, but has now been pushed out. Microsoft has a once-in-a-generation opportunity with Arm laptops based on Qualcomm/Nuvia (ex-Apple), this is not the time to squander that opportunity with distractions like advertising. https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/28/24114362/microsoft-windows-surface-reorg-ai-pcs-report https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/28/24114362/microsoft-window... After Windows and Surface chief Panos Panay departed Microsoft last year, the software giant quickly split his two divisions into two different teams. It was a move designed to push Windows engineers to focus on more web and AI features under Mikhail Parakhin, who was previously responsible for Bing and ads. It didn’t work out. Six months after that shake-up, Windows and Surface are back together under a new leader, following frustrations from the very top of Microsoft.. Parakhin was responsible for Microsoft’s reborn advertising business and all of the company’s ad-based consumer businesses.. the web experiences team that Parakhin led had a different culture from the rest of Microsoft that often resulted in micromanaging and “insane deadlines” for projects.. The Windows and Web Experiences (WWE) team that Parakhin briefly oversaw also developed the malware-like Bing pop-ups we’ve seen appear in Windows recently.. The new Windows and Surface chief, Davuluri, is experienced when it comes to the combination of hardware and software that Microsoft needs to get right in this new era of AI. Davuluri has worked at Microsoft for more than 23 years and has been at the heart of Surface engineering. He was deeply involved in the company’s work with Qualcomm and AMD to create custom Surface processors.

kevincox 3y ago
LOL "Yes we love the ads" said no user ever. If they had any intention of listening to user feedback they never would have started this project because the feedback is obviously going to be negative. At the very "best" they will cherry-pick a few metrics that show that it is a "popular addition".
- 3y ago

rappatic 3y ago

If I’m not mistaken, it’s illegal in the US to place advertisements alongside content without distinguishing them. I don’t see a marker in the screenshot; is this simply a problem with the beta?

paxys 3y ago
The article calls them ads, but in the linked blog post Microsoft only calls them "recommended apps". There's a difference between the two, and the latter doesn't have to be marked as sponsored if Microsoft is coming up with the recommendation themselves.
- justinclift 3y ago
  Sounds like a "difference" that needs testing in court. :)
- sedatk 3y ago
  Every ad is a recommended product. I don’t see why the distinction matters.
  - paxys 3y ago
    The distinction matters when the advertiser is paying for the slot. Do you not see a difference between sponsored results in Google search that came via paid ads and the rest of the top results that came via their own algorithm?
    - sedatk 3y ago
      Your use of the word “algorithm” carries a heavy load there. What’s that algorithm? How do we know paid ads aren’t prioritized or monetized there? Where’s Microsoft’s promise on clear distinction for paid ads? Why does The Verge and Engadget call them “effectively ads”? What do you know that they don’t know?
      - 3y ago

jsheard 3y ago

What an incredible coincidence that they introduce ads in the official start menu around the same time that they begin blocking third party start menu replacements. https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-blocks-even-more-customization-apps-in-windows-11-version-24h2/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-blocks-even-more-custo... They do have some legitimate reason to want to block specific versions of those apps if they cause stability issues on a new build of Windows, but at least in the case of StartAllBack the developer noted it isn't targeted at a specific version this time, it's a wildcard block. https://twitter.com/StartIsBack/status/1776555154701205877 https://twitter.com/StartIsBack/status/1776555154701205877

pesus 3y ago
Lovely! I rely on StartAllBack to make my Windows 11 work machine actually useful. At least renaming the executable works for now. Microsoft seems hellbent on making their products worse and worse. I guess this is more incentive for me to get a new job not working in a Windows shop.
- justinclift 3y ago
  And/or introduce non-Windows platforms into the place for any reason you can get away with. :)
- kyriakos 3y ago
  Are you using an insider build? It's only blocked in a pre release version. We don't know if this is a problem that will be in 24H2 final version
kevincox 3y ago
I mean it isn't a coincidence. But this framing is pretty negative. These apps broke and started crashing because they were updating the start menu. Probably related to the addition of ads. Then they blocked these versions because they were crashing. It doesn't seem like they are making any effort to block versions that don't cause crashes. (Other than maybe making it a bit harder to keep updating to new internal APIs) It really doesn't seem like they are purposely breaking these tools so that more people see the ads. It is probably such a tiny market that they don't care at this point. They'll definitely ship the ads to 99.9% of users first before they worry about this unaddressed market.

kjkjadksj 3y ago

All the more reason to wipe the os and install linux

nogridbag 3y ago

Even if the new Snapdragon X Elite were a generation ahead of Apple's M3, I still wouldn't buy a Windows laptop because of shenanigans like this. I bought into the hype with the original Surface Book (mine is completely unusable due to hardware defects with the hinge).

justinclift 3y ago
Do you have a local electronics shop nearby, or maybe a makerspace with some electronics enthusiast members? Asking because there might be reasonable options for getting it functional again without too much hassle. :)
linsomniac 3y ago
My MIL has one of the Surface Laptops, and recently brought it to me because the battery was bulging. I looked into it, and what a maintenance nightmare. One guy on youtube had a battery fail under warranty and they sent him a whole new one, and told him to just recycle the old one; apparently even Microsoft doesn't want to repair them. They keyboard/trackpad panel is alcantara, and is glued to the bottom cover (or was until the batteries swelled). I had to cut and pry this later off. But even then, the connector for the battery requires you to remove basically all the components (speakers, heatsinks, fans, wifi card, a bunch of RF shielding that is micro-spot welded in place, the display, the motherboard. The battery connector is a pad that the back of the motherboard has contacts that mate to it. I told my in-laws that there was a better than even chance that I'd destroy it while doing the repair, and I'd give it a shot, but they should be prepared to buy a new one. They were ready to go buy one instead of me doing the repair, but I told them I was happy to do it and went ahead and was able to get'r'done. I guess some of that is the price of it being so thin and light. My MIL got it because she's kind of frail and wanted something super light. Which it definitely is. It's a marvel of engineering. But, ultimately, disposable.

bmitc 3y ago

It's unbelievable that whoever runs Windows seems to be diametrically opposed to the rest of the company. It's a decent operating system apparently ran by bean counters.

seized 3y ago

Good luck on their testing. I just swapped to a MacBook for $job and my last Windows 10 VM will be gone as soon as I finish migrating from Lightroom to DigiKam, maybe in a week or two. Everything else has been moved to Fedora Kinoite, including the kids gaming computer and the wife's workstation.

7thaccount 3y ago
This is something I'm seeing a lot more now. More companies are allowing users to select Macs instead of Windows and a lot of people take them up on the offer.
- 93po 3y ago
  Part of my salary negotiation for my last three jobs has been requiring that I get a new macbook, even if the default for everyone else is windows laptops. It hasn't been a problem so far and my life has been significantly improved by not using windows machines

comeonbro 3y ago

What is the best opinionated, minimal, happy-path-only, official-feeling landing page for Linux? A quick search right now didn't bring up anything I could endorse to a normie.

steelframe 3y ago
https://www.google.com/chromebook/chrome-os/ https://www.google.com/chromebook/chrome-os/
- kweingar 3y ago
  Normally if I were recommending Linux to a friend, I would encourage them to use their existing computer rather than going out and buying new hardware just for Linux. ChromeOS Flex might fit the bill though, and the installation process is probably the most straightforward and handhold-y out of the Linuxes. https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_uk/os/chromeosflex/ https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_uk/os/chromeosflex/
  - analog31 3y ago
    I recently installed Chrome OS Flex on an old Lenovo laptop. It's really quite snappy. I did it mainly out of curiosity. It was easy to install and bring up for the first time, and it's not loaded with crapware. For a lot of home users, a "the browser is the new OS." If they're doing everything with cloud apps, then they really don't need to interact with a conventional desktop very much. Assuming they don't run Windows software such as games. Battery life is no different than it was with Windows. Linux mode was easy to set up, and hard for me to damage. ;-) And it doesn't seem to do anything to the Chrome OS machine, so you can wipe it and start over without re-installing the entire machine. Jupyter Notebook runs just fine, so I'm pretty much all set. Jupyter is practically my OS these days.
justinclift 3y ago
Maybe the Kubuntu site? It seems targetted towards users in the right kind of way: https://kubuntu.org/feature-tour/ https://kubuntu.org/feature-tour/

tombert 3y ago

You know, Apple isn’t a company that I love, and I have reasons to actively hate them, but it would be immensely surprising if they trying to pull this shit. I haven’t used Windows in any serious capacity in about 15 years, swapping between macOS and Linux every couple years, and I am glad to not have any of my workflow based around Windows now, because I don’t want ads to be blasted in my face. Once my current Mac breaks, I am probably going to go back to Nixos, but never Windows. Edit: Appears I was wrong. I have never noticed the ads but people are pointing out they are plastered around a lot, at least in some capacity. I don’t like that either. Maybe I should move over to Linux sooner than I thought, at least on my laptop.

paxys 3y ago

The article calls them ads but in the linked blog post Microsoft only calls them "recommended apps". Pretty big difference between the two. Every OS does app recommendations. Go to the search bar on your iPhone and you'll see recommendations there as well.

two_handfuls 3y ago
I don’t. Also, calling those ads sound correct to me.
Shawnecy 3y ago
Did the app authors pay for their apps to be recommended? If so, then it's still an ad.
- paxys 3y ago
  Nowhere does it say that they did
orwin 3y ago
> Every OS does app recommendations No. I reinstalled a new OS when Ubuntu started putting text "suggestions" in my terminal, and ads are much more nefarious in term of resource consumption and attention whoring. The only reason i got through the hoops of installing a Fdroid was the google app store ads.

osigurdson 3y ago

Old saying If you pay for it you are the customer. If free, you are the product being sold. New saying Pay up and don't complain about the ads.

trynumber9 3y ago
But I paid for a Windows license and they're still doing it
- throwiforgtnlzy 3y ago
  A retail Windows license isn't the same as an enterprise Windows license. Retails Windows licenses started with ads for OneDrive and Office in Settings, but now that they're reverting to their old, shameless ways, they're putting ads everywhere else too for retail users. With a Windows Enterprise license, all of the ads can be turned off, or at least that was the practice.
  - trynumber9 3y ago
    It's Windows 11 Pro. How do I buy an enterprise license?
    - throwiforgtnlzy 3y ago
      Sorry, I'm not your VAR rep. https://letmegoogleforyou.com/?q=buy%20windows%2011%20enterprise https://letmegoogleforyou.com/?q=buy%20windows%2011%20enterp...
      - trynumber9 3y ago
        That is what I thought. "Contact Sales". You can't without a contract. So advert-ridden Windows is unavoidable for consumers even if they paid $200.
npteljes 3y ago
It's a bad saying. There are, and have been for a long time, many counter-examples. In case of television, people pay for it and they are "the product" as well. In case of Free Software, it's free, and the users are not sold at all.

jonnycomputer 3y ago

Frankly, I find inserting ads into the user interface of an operating system an affront, particularly for people who pay money for the OS.

heresie-dabord 3y ago
The "mature" state of consumerism will be that you/we will see advertising everywhere and have ads forced upon us. And if you/we object, we will be told that our desire for living ad-free is as absurd as our desire for privacy.
- jonnycomputer 3y ago
  I paid for Amazon Prime; shows were ad-free. Then they announced that they'd have ads. So I quit Prime. I'm not gonna pay to be advertised to. Other streamers tiered options make sense to me, and if I had to I'd pare down the service to meet budget.

jgalt212 3y ago

next up, OS-level gambling.

pndy 3y ago
I'm pretty sure they did include some kind of achievements and rewards system in Windows 10.

Crontab 3y ago

Ads in the Start Menu? That is a fucking terrible idea.

GoofGarage 3y ago

Figured I'd mention an open source guide of mine here, as I expect I'll have a way to disable these ads without any third-party tools, as I have done to address all the other things so far: ------ So I had many of the same concerns regarding Windows 11's nonsense when it came out, but I sat down, learned how to clean it up, and put a Creative Commons open source guide for others to follow. I knew many other reluctant friends who are senior devs at prolific companies in the tech space, and with my guide they seem to have no real remaining complaints. It covers both the initial installation, as well as all my post-install recommendations. It eliminates I believe all the tracking, adware, suggestions, Cortana, feeding the Bing/ChatGPT machine, telemetry, etc. Absolutely nothing breaks. No need for a Microsoft account. It should be straightforward and to-the-click/keystroke. https://github.com/GoofGarage/Win11Clean https://github.com/GoofGarage/Win11Clean If there’s any bugbears, please create an issue. I’ll be responding to them every few weeks, and I try to update the release every 3 months.

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dcow 3y ago

Before everyone pulls out the pitchforks… 1. Swipe down on your iOS home screen to bring up search. 2. Type the first few letters of a popular app that’s not on your phone. For me that’s “tik”. 3. Observe an advertisement from apple’s app store to download the app. This is what Microsoft is doing. Do I like it? Not really. But there’s precedent and everyone seems fine with this UX on iOS.

bromuro 3y ago
I don’t see any ad from apple , but search results from Notes, Mails, etc.
stefandesu 3y ago
I don't get these. Maybe because I messed with the iOS settings? Even if I type "tiktok" in full, I only get one photo (I guess a screenshot that contains it) as well as a recently accessed website that mentioned it. And the "Search App Store" button, no ad.
mikl 3y ago
Ad? Unless you’re seeing something other than what I’m seeing, that’s just a search result from the app store. Apple is not charging the app owner for that. And if you don’t want the search (aka Spotlight) to suggest apps from the App Store, you can disable that in Settings -> Siri & Search -> Content from Apple.
- dcow 3y ago
  Well yeah this is what TFA is calling an ad. There’s either a clear anti Microsoft slant in the reporting, or this is a relevant useful “ad”.
timeon 3y ago
I have old iOS so I do not have this. Siri is suggesting only installed apps. In which version came this change? I hope it will not come to macOS as well.
TiredOfLife 3y ago

LASR 3y ago

The tabloid celebrity “news” garbage in the start menu is egregious already. They want to stuff more? I honestly cannot believe a $3T business needs this bit of ad space.

guru4consulting 3y ago

Both Apple and Microsoft are already trillion dollar companies. Why do they get so much greedy to get even more money with ads? This also ends up giving a very bad user experience to their billions of customers, pretty much the entire planet. Why would their board members even consider or approve these kinds of despicable practices? are they doing this to earn even more compensation on top of their already high compensation? I am just pissed off with this extremely bigger companies trying to get even richer with all these dirty strategies.

leecoursey 3y ago
Unfortunately, investors in publicly-traded companies don't reward size, they reward GROWTH. And apparently, placing ads in a space with lots of eyeballs and no existing ads looks like tempting low-hanging fruit to every organization sooner or later.

8chanAnon 3y ago

Who uses the Start Menu? I click on that maybe once in a blue moon to maybe uninstall something. This is just another reason to start doing the Linux thing once this Win10 machine needs to be replaced. Ironically, the reason why I didn't get into Linux is because whatever it was that I installed long ago looked the same as Windows and it had a Start Menu (by a different name). Yeah, I guess I could have reconfigured or replaced the desktop manager but it wasn't worth the bother at the time. The calculus, however, is changing rapidly.

rajishx 3y ago

I am pretty much os agnostics, i sure do enjoy linux because of being so customizable and i am quite good at it but i don't mind using OSX or others if there was.. but when it come to windows, i can't for my life of it using it.. it's very slugggish for me (compared to the arch distro i have on that same laptop) and it's unbearably intrusive (so many shortcuts are owned by the OS that i can't disable)