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Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right
- wolverine876 3y agoThe author is former head of Oculus at Meta, Hugo Barra The full title, which of course wouldn't fit: Vision Pro is an over-engineered “devkit” // Hardware bleeds genius & audacity but software story is disheartening // What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right // Why Meta could finally have its Android moment I think my edit is the best summary.
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- dang 3y agoYes you did a great job with that, which probably helped it get attention, too—a good thing, since it's an interesting article. Thanks!
- wolverine876 3y agoI saw you reposted it (or whatever that mechanism is) so thank you.
- pavlov 3y agoGreat article. It's so long, the four-part title is deserved and necessary to understand what's here. I found this part somewhat funny or perhaps disingenuous: > "I admit Vision Pro is the ultimate tech toy, but since I’m not an active developer I can’t justify the $4,049.78 price tag (512GB model + California sales tax) simply for keeping up with the VR market, so I returned my Vision Pro for a full refund inside the 14-day return window." Mr Barra has held VP positions at companies like Google, Xiaomi and Meta since 2008. He's obviously a multimillionaire just from stock awards. Surely he can afford a $4k toy...
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- Almondsetat 3y agoit's about not indulging in useless purchases, which is one of the ways you stay wealthy
- diab0lic 3y agoBeing a multi millionaire isn’t really relevant here. If you’re not the type of person who spends $4k on a tech toy then you’ll have a hard time justifying it.
- chongli 3y agoI think even at $100 the AVP is hard to justify for most people. It’s a solution in search of a problem (which I feel is generally the case for all VR tech). Overall though I think the issue is common across consumer tech. The space is extremely saturated. People have so little time left it’s crazy. Devices monopolize people’s attention. I wonder if we’ll figure out a way to move past this, as a species, and get back to more meaningful interactions.
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- mikedouglas 3y agoHe explains earlier in the article that he tries to apply a “consumer” lens to all tech purchases, so he can more honestly evaluate them. The point being that he’s applying a bunch higher bar than someone with his interests and net worth would otherwise apply.
- KLejmooo 3y agoHe wrote "can't justify". I need to call myself also 'rich' (because of values i hold but can't liquify and i earn enough that i could buy more expensive toys without thinking too much about it) but this doesn't mean my mindset changed. I have to remind myself that i can afford certain things or i'm wasting too much thought about prices of products. This probably shows a more realistic, less material and proper upbringing of Mr Barra than 'not being able to afford it'
- KingOfCoders 3y agoI like my Oculus Rift. But the software is so bad. It is confusing, after a month not using it, I don't know where each setting is. Sometimes I misconfigure, and there is no easy way to reset it and move everything into view again. Hardware is fine for my needs (playing Alyx), but the software looks like somthing bought from seven sources and glued together.
- wolverine876 3y agoIs there something inherently difficult or novel about VR operating software that would make it difficult to design or implement controls? I can understand tracking hands is difficult, but I mean the problems you have. It seems crazy that after investing so much in the 'hard part', the VR hardware and software itself, they'd drop the ball on what seems mundane - basic design of UI controls.
- KingOfCoders 3y agoNo I don't think so. They just miss the Apple attitude of UI. It's like the Windows setting system. I'm using Win11/WSL, and while it works, the Windows settings are a mixture of Win95/Aero/3rd Party Plugins (Nvidia)/Win11 and some things that just look like Win3.1. Googling to change DNS settings: Step 1: Open the Control Panel. ... Step 2: Open Network and Sharing Center. ... Step 3: Choose the connection. ... Step 4: Change adapter settings. ... Step 5: Choose Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4) ... Step 6: Click on Properties. ... So I don't think it has anything to do with VR
- vel0city 3y agoThis is old Windows. On Win11: Settings Network and Internet Choose either your wifi or Ethernet Click Edit next to DNS Server Assignment
- thfuran 3y agoHave they finally unfucked the settings and brought them all into a consistent ui, or have they just moved that particular one to yet another new layer?
- ramboldio 3y ago> The Apple Vision Pro is the Northstar the VR industry needed, whether we admit it or not I think that sums it up pretty well. More companies should launch products like that!
- theodric 3y agoIncomplete, with a poor launch app ecosystem, dependent on owning another of the company's devices to scan your head to get a rather variable quality of mask fit, and when that phone guesses wrong it costs the customer a further $300 for a second guess? As long as the fans keep paying, I suppose you're right.
- dylan604 3y agoyou just described the first iPod, iPhone, and iPad. they were right about them. you could see where they would assume the magic would happen again just from hubris.
- ulfw 3y agoNone of them cost even half as much as this thing. What's with the endless comparisons with previous Apple products that were completely different in a completely different market and competitive environment.
- dghlsakjg 3y agoThey are being compared because the criticisms are the same or very similar. The iPhone was form over function, no keyboard, no apps, and too expensive. You can't even use a stylus with it! It doesn't do anything that my phone and ipod don't already do better. The iPad was absolutely roasted for just being a giant expensive iPhone with a dumb name, it doesn't even have its own apps. It doesn't do anything that my iPhone can't already do. The iMac was underpowered and overpriced, didn't even have a floppy drive, didn't have real connectors just something called USB that no one had ever heard of, it wasn't compatible with 99% of the software on the market. It doesn't do anything that my PC doesn't already do. We see all these products as unmitigated hits now, but at the time they launched, it was still very much up for debate.
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- protoman3000 3y agoNo matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable. Can anybody relate?
- grecy 3y agoAbsolutely, and it’s interesting to realize the same was true for the first couple of iPhone versions, iPads and Apple Watch. As long as those apps come, it could be great
- iancmceachern 3y agoI'm in the same boat. I have no desire for these. If anything, I'm trying to reduce my screen time and increase my access and accessibility to the real world. This feels like the exact opposite.
- reportgunner 3y agoThe killer app for VR is the novelty of putting it on for the first 15 minutes / first 2 hours (depending on if you suffer from motion sickness or not) imho. Thiking about it we would have VR predecessors in shape of screens attached to our forehead if this way of using technology was useful. We don't have that though so VR has nothing to replace. PS: I bought a VR headset to check my bias and I don't use it because it's just uncomfortable to wear.
- idontknowifican 3y agoi felt this way too. i did buy the AVP because of the 14 day return policy. i ended up using it four hours a day, which is all of my non meeting work time.
- tempest_ 3y agoSame. The tech is interesting but I am still waiting for the software to show me something that doesn't feel like a gimmick.
- rswail 3y agoThere's no consideration of the other "killer app" for VR/AR, porn. Porn is what got VHS to succeed over Beta. Porn is what got CC payments working online. Porn drives a lot of Twitch and other platforms. Apple won't allow porn on its platform, but someone will.
- duped 3y agoThe first is a joke from Tropic Thunder, the second isn't true, but the third is accurate.
- ARandumGuy 3y agoI'm not really disputing your broader point, but this: > Porn is what got VHS to succeed over Beta. Is just not true. For one, porn absolutely existed on Beta. But more broadly, by the time the content available on each format mattered, VHS had already won the format war. That's because both Beta and VHS were primarily developed and marketed as a way to record TV to watch later. Tapes were way too expensive to make selling pre-recorded tapes viable when both systems launched. Pre-recorded tapes eventually did become popular, especially in the rental market. But that only happened well after VHS clearly won the format war, mostly due to VHS's longer recording time. For more details, Technology Connections has a long rant about this misconception in this video: https://youtu.be/hGVVAQVdEOs?si=X-FYCRAzowXOdqBb&t=931 https://youtu.be/hGVVAQVdEOs?si=X-FYCRAzowXOdqBb&t=931
- MarkSweep 3y agoThe Meta Quest already has porn, at least in Japan: https://www.meta.com/experiences/1990852827683397/ https://www.meta.com/experiences/1990852827683397/
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- 93po 3y agoI found a single VR porn website that worked with the AVP. It was super finicky (around 30 seconds to load a page and actually get it playing, involving 6 button presses). Also was a paid website.
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- noneeeed 3y agoI think the description of the VisionPro as a dev kit is spot on. It's also a beta product in many way. Apple know full well that this is not a mass market product, they have made no attempt to make it even remotely affordable to most people. But they also know that every aspect of the hardware will improve over the next decade, and as it does they will have ironed out many of the problems with how we use AR/VR and will be ready for it, based on the real life experiences of actual owners, rather than years of in-house testing. The screen will get bigger (I hear FoV is pretty poor at the moment), the CPU/power/thermal performance will improve, battery density goes up, cameras and sensors get better and cheaper and many parts will get smaller/lighter. And in that time they will learn by doing, making it better/cheaper/lighter and working on the software and interaction model. Hopefully at the same time it will really spur on the rest of the industry and we will see more competition and experimentation. I can't see myself buying something like this for the next 10 years at least. But something like the VPro that is better, smaller and lighter and doesn't cost the earth could be quite tempting for late adopters like me.
- fouronnes3 3y agoHopefully you're right, but the cynic in me thinks we've been saying the same thing about every VR headset that has come out in the last ten years.
- 65 3y agoI'll only buy a VR device if it's in the form of glasses, not big goggles I need to strap to my face.
- dvngnt_ 3y agoglasses won't take over your entire fov though so it suck for VR. maybe better for AR
- someguydave 3y agoYeah but glasses are probably fine for the display replacement market
- epanchin 3y agoInteresting article. Does the average person distrust meta as much as I do? I wouldn’t consider anything made by meta in my house - I imagine this is a common position it’s a shame it didn’t get a mention.
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- tartuffe78 3y agoI doubt it's very common at all, most people just Facebook without putting much thought into it I imagine.
- arnaudsm 3y agoAfter obsessing on thinness and weight for a decade on the iPhone and MacBook, Apple inexplicably did the opposite and missed the opportunity to focus on the major painpoint or VR : every headset hurts after 30 minutes. The Vision Pro is heavier than most flagship headsets. I have 1000 hours on SteamVR, but coming back is a chore. And my face is red after every session.
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- empath-nirvana 3y agoThe iphone was heavier than almost any phone on the market when it was released.
- arnaudsm 3y agoYes about 10% heavier than the N95 and P1i, but the confort difference is neglible compared to strapping something to your face.
- idontknowifican 3y agoisn't it 10 grams heavier than an oculus?
- arnaudsm 3y ago26% heavier (135g) than the Quest 3. And the default Apple single-strap band favors aesthetics over weight distribution, which makes it even worse.
- idontknowifican 3y agothere is not a default band, you get both. quest pro is 700+ grams, so the AVP is lighter than its competitor
- masfoobar 3y agoI remember being sooooo tempted to buy a devkit just so I could play about, see if I can get it to work with my own 3D games. Would it be a pointless exercise? Yes. However, would I learn from it as a programmer? Yes. To this very day, I still dont have a VR headset. I am actually a tad behind with the latest ones, if I am honest about it. There is a VR place in our City which I take my children to (and myself) for some fun for an hour. I do enjoy it. We play together on those Zombie or Archery games. One of the main reasons I am tempted to get VR is to got the extra mile for some games or.. more specifically.. simulations. I want to give my kids a slight head start to things like driving. With a decent simulator, steering wheel and VR, will be educational for them. I would need to build (or perhaps just buy) a new PC. Is all this worth it for a driving simulator experience? Interesting to see the future of VR and AR. I think these techs will merge in one way or another, ending up being small like a pair of glasses. I do think this tech as it evolves will eventually replace monitors. Things like this will be replaced, like giant mainframes are nothing compared to modern phones.
- deadbabe 3y agoIt’s not worth it, you’re better off buying them smaller electric vehicles and then moving them up to bigger things.
- masfoobar 3y agoAppreciate the feedback. This is something I am doing. Just figured the VR experience can add a little more to that.
- blitzar 3y agoTake them carting on the weekend; its how practically every F1 driver was raised.
- masfoobar 3y ago100% -- My daughter is approaching an age I would like to do that with her!
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- saretup 3y ago> Watching movies in Vision Pro is great at first but most people will stop doing it after the initial novelty excitement wears off Watching TV/movies in virtual reality seemed like such an incredibly compelling idea that we (the Oculus team at Meta/Facebook) built an entire product around that idea — Oculus Go. Launched in 2018, Oculus Go was the biggest product failure I’ve ever been associated with for the simple reason that it had extremely low retention despite strong partnerships with Netflix and YouTube. Most users who bought Oculus Go completely abandoned the headset after a few weeks. You can't possibly extrapolate the movie watching retention rate from Oculus Go to Apple Vision Pro. That's like saying most people won't use ipod based on the data we collected from our walkman.
- mliker 3y agoAgreed, I've had my Vision Pro for a month, and I still use it to watch shows/movies and as my portable external display. It has its daily and weekly use cases
- wolverine876 3y agoThe OP says it's too uncomfortable (including too heavy) to wear for that long. What is your experience with that? > It has its daily and weekly use cases What do you do with it?
- mliker 3y agoI wear it about 30 min at a time, 2 min breaks in between, 2-3 hours total daily. Daily use case: portable Macbook monitor weekly use case: watching shows or a movie. I have to pause due to dry eyes, not due to the heaviness. After the first 2 days of using it, it's not actually that heavy afterward, but it is noticeable if you pay attention.
- 93po 3y agoI loved movie watching with my AVP but I agree it's too uncomfortable, even lying in bed and having less weight on my cheek bones. I watched two hours of Guards of the Galaxy 3 and got tired of wearing it and finished the last hour on my 13" laptop screen
- sirjaz 3y agoYou need compare Hololens 2 against this
- eggbrain 3y agoHis point on the significant motion-blur / image quality issues that exists with pass-through is my biggest complaint with the device hardware-wise. I got the prescription lens inserts that Apple had suggested, and when I first put on the device I thought that either my eye doctor had gotten my prescription wrong, or something was defective with my device. The blur is distracting -- and looking further away makes it more obvious, as the objects in the background move around a lot more when turning your head vs items really close to your eyes. He also says you can read your screens through passthrough, but I've found that not really to be the case, at least for devices like the iPhone or Apple watch. I've had to take my Vision Pro off many times not only to read a phone notification, but also for anything that requires Face-ID (which doesn't work well when the Vision Pro is covering your face, which feels like an Apple ecosystem fail). I'm still enjoying it, and I bought it knowing it was a V1 product, but it also shows how far have to go, even with a ton of engineering put into a product.
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- blunderchief 3y agoThis actually helps me a little bit. I've also seen people say they can read screens, and that's not my experience. I also have the lens inserts, and I suspect that part of the problem is how they implement the prescription. I'm not knowledgeable enough about lenses to say this with confidence (please correct me!), but I wonder if this is because Apple prioritizes a farther away focal point for the inserts, so you literally can't focus on anything close up. I've noticed that I can almost read things if I hold my phone a little farther away, but I wouldn't call it usable by any stretch. I've considered getting contacts for the first time just to test all of this, but I'm extremely turned off by the upkeep of them (to say nothing of the idea of touching my eyeball to put them in).
- gen3 3y ago> I wonder if this is because Apple prioritizes a farther away focal point for the inserts, so you literally can't focus on anything close up VR is interesting all because all manufactures (that I know of) have a fixed focal distance for the screens. This is why you need inserts in the first place, even though the lenses are right in front of your eyes. For example, on the valve index this is set to ~6ft, so if you can see up to 6ft perfectly, you do not need inserts. Moving your phone around doesn't change this number, its a relationship between the lenses and the screens
- axus 3y ago"Apple intentionally calibrated the Vision Pro display slightly out of focus to make pixels a bit blurry and hide the screen door effect “in plain sight” Makes me think of the blurring effect of phosphors on a CRT.
- rexf 3y agoThis is shocking to read. I tried the in store demo and my main take away was that the display wasn’t as crisp or sharp as I expected for a $4k device.
- int_19h 3y agoThat would be the case blurring or no blurring. Apple managed to cram 4K displays per eye there, which is very impressive when you compare it against Quest etc - but that's 4K shoved right against your eyeballs. That is, it is the rough equivalent of sitting so close next to a 4K TV that it covers your entire field of vision. If you've ever tried that, you know that it's not exactly retina, and you can still very much see the pixels. But even that is a massive technological achievement when you look at raw numbers in the article - those 4K displays in Vision Pro are already 3386 PPI.
- riwsky 3y agoGp’s “4k” was referring to price, not pixels
- int_19h 3y agoI'm well aware, and that doesn't change anything. What Apple gave us in Vision Pro is what you get for the price tag given modern technology. High-res VR is insanely expensive for good reasons, both the extreme DPI required, and the powerful hardware needed to drive it all at speeds fast enough to avoid motion sickness.
- skc 3y agoI recently saw Dune 2 on IMAX. If the Vision Pro can soon replicate that experience they will print (even more) money and could lock the big film studios down forever pretty much. That is the killer use case. Everything else seems like fluff.
- adamors 3y agoSolo-movie watching seems like _a_ usecase, but I'd argue most people don't watch movies alone.
- rad_gruchalski 3y agoHow difficult would it be to build an app where your friends could join remotely, watch the same movie, and appear right next to you? With good enough latency you could talk to each other like you were sitting right next to each other?
- whynotminot 3y agoI think with Shareplay, Spatial Audio, and Personas Apple already has the core pieces to do something like this baked into the OS.
- BobaFloutist 3y agoGiven that they have that in Fortnite, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wouldn't be too difficult.
- aeturnum 3y agoI do think these kinds of "virtual presence" apps are possible and exciting - and also I think there are huge new challenges that come with the Vision Pro's better spatial computing. If you are in a video game (like fortnight) you easily forgive a lot of jank - your brain isn't expecting it. On the flip side, people will not like someone jumping around "in space" right next to them. Same goes for reproducing movements in avatars. You can always choose a lower fidelity co-presence, but again if you are doing that why are you wearing the heavy goggles? Just get a discord server and watch on there. I think there are very real technical challenges to combining all of the important aspects, but it is also the category of experience I am most excited by.
- smitty1e 3y agoI can only see getting into VR for very specific, limited duration tasks. Call me a Luddite, but I am increasingly disdainful of all the New Shiny stuff, and see society trending toward lower-tech, traditional pursuits.
- CatWChainsaw 3y agoI think it's natural. With the end of the Free Money Era, every New Shiny Thing in your life is going to require a subscription, permission to harvest data on everything about you that can be measured, as many advertisements as users will tolerate, and gambling-tier microtransactions. It's tiring, demoralizing, and stupid. Walking away is liberating.
- throwaway74432 3y agoIf people wanted to wear a phone screen taped over their eyes out in public, the technical limitations wouldn't barely make a dent in that desire. But the vast majority of people want to have real in-person human interactions when they're out in the world. That's what the makers of these devices fail to see. But they can't see that because they're self-described VR enthusiasts. If they talk to non VR enthusiasts (which is everyone else), they'll see that the limiting factor isn't the hardware. Think of it this way. Most people think it's rude to talk to each other indoors with sunglasses on. That's the slimmest form factor you're going to get, and it still steps on the toes of human connection.
- tsunamifury 3y agoThis is the trap of when a company needs a user to buy a product more than the user needs the product. This was something jobs was adept at navigating around along with Jonny Ive. Tim Cook is a product idiot. Or maybe more to the point he is adept at making factories and has run out of products for them to manufacture. So what’s more important to him his giving the factory more to do vs designing the right product.
- MR4D 3y ago> But the vast majority of people want to have real in-person human interactions when they're out in the world. I think this statement is too strong. I see too many people every day in elevators, in lines, all sorts of different places that are on their phone and specifically avoiding eye contact with other human beings. That suggests that the term “vast majority” is probably too strong.
- taylodl 3y agoRight? Eyes down at their phone, Air Pods in, it's not easy to get their attention even if you need to. They're essentially already connected to a VR headset, just a poor version of one.
- wanderingstan 3y agoSeconded. One glance around coffee shops, buses, or the like is enough to show that screens dominate “out in the world” too. And looking at the trend lines for the past decade, it seems set to continue.
- arctac 3y ago"devkit" at over $2000 is just mind-boggling and we are talking about Apple here.
- kybernetikos 3y agoCost of two monitor stands? Sounds very reasonable.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoThey also sell some castor wheels for $700 plus shipping
- bunnie 3y agoMaybe I'm old fashioned but one of the biggest barriers for me adopting VR/AR is there isn't a socially acceptable way to "duck out" of a VR experience you're just not into. I've been given a couple of demos of headsets by friends and more often than not by the end I feel trapped -- you're strapped into a thing that fully occupies your visual field, yet it's obvious and socially awkward when you take it off. And your eyes are both covered so there isn't a good way to non-verbally communicate waning interest levels...I suppose a solution is to simply care less if I hurt my friend's feelings but I'd also like a way to spend time with friends without feeling trapped. At least in an f2f or video call meeting that I'm bored of, I can zone out or look at my phone or tap on my laptop, or do anything but stare at the slides. With eye tracking, the headset knows (and presumably everyone else could know as well) when you're tuned out. The eye tracking thing also kind of weirds me out from a privacy standpoint. It's already bad enough that web pages track how long you engage with different portions of content. Now they know what parts of images I stare at, and can algorithmically feed me content based solely on my gaze alone. Does that prospect not weird anyone else out? Or are most normal users like "plug me into AR TikTok, but with gaze mechanics now!"
- andsoitis 3y ago> And your eyes are both covered so there isn't a good way to non-verbally communicate waning interest levels...I suppose a solution is to simply care less if I hurt my friend's feelings but I'd also like a way to spend time with friends without feeling trapped. I hadn’t considered those antisocial patterns that the technology is foisting on users, but I suppose one can also juts directly communicate verbally. Could work in low context cultures but not so well in high context cultures. > The eye tracking thing also kind of weirds me out from a privacy standpoint. Indeed. While I am less worried about Apple “going after me in a direct targeted nefarious way”, I don’t appreciate more levers for technology to disintermediate my manipulate my behavior, emotions, or interactions.
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- ugh123 3y agoIMHO Meta's #1 mistake with VR thus far has been presentation. No good press has ever come with screenshots of silly cartoon avatars (with or without legs). The focus on games highlighted its lack of utility. AVP only highlighted utility, which draws instant connection to our daily lives.
- smoldesu 3y agoJust speaking for myself here, but owning a Quest I don't entirely agree. The utility of it is kinda crazy - I can browse the web and OpenXR apps from my browser, or tether myself to my PC with the push of a button. Wanna sideload streaming apps and watch movies over SFTP from your homeserver? There are no guardrails in place to stop you. If I try to imagine myself living the same workflow on Apple Vision Pro, I get hung up on the cost. $3,500 is a big ask for a VR iPad with a lot of the same pitfalls as the tablet.
- ugh123 3y agoMeta severely underplays those capabilities. I've always known they're "there", but it's not their preferred presentation of the device. It also takes a bit of "power user" to be comfortable doing much of what you're describing. I'm not even sure if AVP can side load apps or watch movies over SFTP, but I don't think it matters at this point: the global mindshare is sold on Apple being the leader now, and personally I don't think it's the hardware driving the difference. Strangely, I think it came down to "look n feel" for a lot of it.
- smoldesu 3y agoThey definitely underplay it - Meta is big on services, selling people a quest for sideloading or Blu-Ray streaming probably threatens their bottom line. Hard to blame them when the hardware costs the same as a Switch though. At the price Apple is asking (and the hardware margins they enjoy), I'd expect more capabilities than just spatialized iOS. I'm not sure the Apple customers in my life would buy a Vision Pro even if it was the same price as an iPhone. > the global mindshare is sold on Apple being the leader now Besides Casey Neistat and Mark Gurman, I'm really not hearing much from the "global mindshare" anymore. The Quest didn't really get any fanfare either, but it did move units and get market penetration from the start. Apple is on a slow roll right now, and until they get Half Life: Alyx or MSFS2020-tier system sellers, I'm not sure the in-group will even consider them on-par with PCVR. Given Apple's audience, I half expect their biggest VR competitor to be Sony's PSVR2.
- falcor84 3y ago> Launch high-definition room scanning and unlock teleportation using technology that has existed within Oculus Research for several years now; it is time for Meta to make this future a reality where people can be remote but feel truly present by visiting each other’s home, office or favorite place. This teleportation/telepresence is the thing that struck me the most. I'd love to pop into a friend's living room for a beer without worrying about them living in another country.
- treyd 3y ago> I'd love to pop into a friend's living room for a beer without worrying about them living in another country. The way a large number of young people do this is just by seeing their friends in voice chat on discord and then joining on their phone.
- falcor84 3y agoYeah, that sort of works, but I think there's something meaningful to be gained by bringing the embodied experience into it, even if it's just simulated. On a related note, we're probably also less than a decade away from telepresence via a humanoid robot at an affordable price.
- chaostheory 3y agoIt’s not the same. Seeing your friend or family member trapped in a small box is very different from having out with a low fidelity version of them playing mini golf or ping pong. Immersion and presence are things that you won’t understand if you refuse to try VR for longer than 5 minutes.
- treyd 3y agoI own a Vive and used to use it regularly.
- chaostheory 3y agoBarely anyone uses PCVR. If you want to use VR socially, it’s all on Quest.
- uptownfunk 3y agoThe current model is not going to work, but it is a large leap to the ideal state of the future world to come. Probably we will adjust but it will be an odd world to adjust to when we have this thing over our face all day
- kjkjadksj 3y agoI don’t see it as an ideal future if they don’t let you have root and run unsigned code. A dystopia created by the ad industry seems way more likely.
- twen_ty 3y agoMultimillionaire tech bro returns a $4k VR headset because he's unhappy. The end.
- jayd16 3y agoI'm going to die on the hill that gaze sucks. I really hate focus follows gaze and not having a workable keyboard or buttons makes it hard to actually use this for productivity. It's fine for an alt mode type thing but as the main form of input I kind of hate it. That said, forcing your hands to be full of controllers also sucks but at least you can play a game. I don't have a solution but it needs to get solved for these things to be seamless enough to wear and useful enough to want to. And I would call myself an enthusiast.
- KerrAvon 3y agoHave you tried the Vision Pro? Not doubting your take here, just curious if it's informed by the actual implementation.
- jayd16 3y agoYes I have. It's the best implementation so far but still very limiting.
- lobster_roll 3y agoimo for AR purposes the gaze is a huge improvement than just pinching (a-la HoloLens). I agree though that for productivity, a more tactile device is needed. In practice I end up connecting my keyboard via Bluetooth, or just end up mirroring my MacBook, when I need to do real work For work purposes, the privacy factor is a huge benefit -- nobody in the room can peek at your "screen"
- baby 3y ago^ agree with this take. If you're slow with tech, then this is amazing! And I think Apple has been great at making interfaces that are natural to use and easy to get into if you're not tech-savy. But for someone who's used to multi-task, or perform operations without looking at what I'm actually operating on, it sucks. I tried using keynote to create diagrams in Vision pro and the experience was so infuriating, I had to painfully look at everything and keep my focus on them while I also tried to repeatedly snap my fingers as the Vision Pro failed to detect it half of the times. I just want controllers.
- RajT88 3y agoThe blur is a great decision, btw. Something I observed in the late 90's/early 2000's with my experiments of outputting video from a PC to a TV is - something that looks really rough even at the same resolution on a PC looks significantly better on a TV. The reason being twofold: 1. TV pixels on a CRT are usually diagonally arranged, instead of side-by-side, which helps to hide jaggies. 2. The phosphorous illumination on the glass itself isn't super sharp on a CRT like it is on more modern displays. The result being - something a little fuzzier makes for a better viewing experience. You can perceive individual pixels (and resulting artifacts) less.
- fouc 3y agoThe author of this article and quite a few people in this HN thread all seem to be mainly looking at Vision Pro through the lens of VR gaming. Why else would the author return his Vision Pro? What makes Vision Pro truly interesting to me is that we can replace our laptop screen with a view containing a larger display and multiple ancillary displays.
- causal 3y agoExcept most reviews find the fov and resolution inadequate for desktop work, and eschewing gamers cuts out the majority of existing VR enthusiasts.
- outworlder 3y ago> Except most reviews find the fov and resolution inadequate for desktop work I have not heard any such complaints. Sure, I heard some complaining that the FOV should be wider, but not being able to work because of it? Not a peep. The resolution is incredible, you can't see any pixels at all. There's zero screen door effect. If the concern is with the Mac Virtual Display, then it's understandable. There seems to be some compression going on and it doesn't look as crisp. Native apps though? They are perfect > eschewing gamers They are not doing that. It's the companies not porting games over (the ones that don't have issues with the lack of controllers). It may be simply a matter of time, as just porting games and keeping existing assets will make them look terrible with the higher resolution of the Vision Pro.
- layer8 3y agoThe article explains that you can’t see the pixels because the AVP is purposely blurring them. The effective resolution of a mirrored Mac screen is below that of a physical 4K screen.
- aeturnum 3y agoI don't think you are accurately reflecting the article - the author is pointing out that Vision Pro is surprisingly weak in the area of "VR Gaming," which is the most successful experience category for headsets so far. He's not suggesting that's the only use - in fact he spends most of the article talking about other uses. He also goes into detail about his thoughts around displays and says that the Vision Pro will be a compelling alternative as a travel display in the near future - but that he does not see it replacing high quality physical displays. My sense is that the Vision Pro is certainly, at least, the best "travel monitor" ever built - and it's at a price point and comfort point where that is very hard to use to justify a purchase. That said, future work can improve both substantially.
- liendolucas 3y agoOne of the things that I will never understand of the Vision Pro is why on earth they went to design and build the front of the headset to have that colorful alive gradient or a truly bad rendering of the user's face. That screams bad overengineering with undesired added weight and extra power consumption. Also it seems that the front glass from some batches crack exactly the same way. Again, why go with that at all? Why not use some better material? Carbon fiber seems like a good choice when it comes to weight though I do not know if it has downsides besides cost.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoThis is apple. They see users break their phone screens and they go OK, lets make them more soap bar like and also give them glass on the backside too so you can’t get lucky landing on that side. All to pocket your couple hundred dollars replacing it or in applecare coverage which probably costed you more than the one screen replacement did over its life.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> users break their phone screens and they go OK, lets make them more soap bar like They also massively strengthened the glass. (I don’t have a case on my iPhone. I drop it constantly, most recently on a double-black ski run while I was trying to get it to be a GoPro.) > give them glass on the backside too so you can’t get lucky landing on that side Fair enough, just noticed mine is cracked there. Not bothering me so will leave as is.
- threeseed 3y agoVision Pro front glass weighs 34g. There are bigger weight problems than that. And they are anticipating a future where the weight is significantly lower and people are wearing them for many hours a day. And so they wanted a corollary for AirPod transparency mode i.e. being able to interact with people without taking device off.
- lefstathiou 3y agoMy two cents (as an owner of a Vision Pro): 1) This is a beta product and I wouldnt recommend it to anyone that is not a developer or in a position to create apps for it, 2) this is going to have as big of an impact on humanity as the computer or the internet did and every engineer or aspiring entrepreneur should pay it attention. This device is magical. Yes it's too heavy, yes there are not enough apps, yes sharing it with other people is a hassle. Every one of those issues will be solved in the next 2 generations. When the screen is 50% better and it weighs 50% less, 20% of knowledge workers will be tuned in daily. Technology isnt a zero sum game, but I genuinely believe the impact will be bigger than AI. AI changes the way you work, Apple Vision will change the way you live, which will change the things you consume, which will impact the work that needs to be done to serve you. Empires will rise and fall. Travel to beaches will go up, travel to tier 3 towns and cities with minor attractions could get obliterated. Most TVs will disappear. My grand children will be able to experience memories with me long after I'm dead. After this, looking at my smartphone seems so analog. Anyway, I could go on for hours Lastly, on the topic of pricing, there is a great book titled Positioning by Al Reiss that highlights the rational behind Apple's strategy on pricing. They are a second mover in this space, they needed to come out of the gate as the absolute gold standard of this technology and position it as the best money can buy. They delivered on both the tech and pricing. Long after the price comes down, they'll still own that position of being the best money can buy. When you own the position, it takes a lot to lose it. It will be almost impossible for Meta to take that from them now. Big mistake on Meta's part.
- monocularvision 3y agoAs long as Apple keeps it locked down like an iPad, I don’t see much of a future for the device replacing general purpose computers in the workforce.
- BowBun 3y agoBusinesses are not their target market, never has been. They dominated the mobile phone market with their iPhone, and the iPad is still a gold standard product for tablets compared to the dozens of shoddy Android versions out there (coming from someone who leans more Android than Apple with their tech). I can see GP's point regardless of the rollout. Before the VR app stores become such critical masses, Apple will have plenty of time to delight users and capture market share. They have tons of cash and great execution.
- oatmeal1 3y agoCan't believe such an obvious PR puff piece gets so much attention on HN.
- alex_young 3y agoWe already tried TV but mounted on your face a few times. Remember 3D TVs? No one wants this.
- outworlder 3y ago> Vision Pro is a meticulously over-engineered “devkit” that is far too heavy to have product-market fit but good enough to seed curiosity into the world That's exactly what I think. And that's exactly why I bought it. I have: * Oculus Rift 1 * HTC Vive * Quest 2 None of those made me want to write apps for them. They have nice games and I spent quality time with them, but just playing. I tried watching videos and it was ok, but it was still better to do that on my TV. I tried actually working with them, and the resolution was not enough. The Vision Pro? It's the opposite. Games, such as they are, are underwhelming. It doesn't even have many '3d' experiences, windows are mostly flat (for now). And guess what? It excel at all the tasks the others fail at, because it's an iPad with a different form factor. If you can work from an iPad, you can work from the Vision Pro. Even watching videos is a better experience due to the passthrough, as you can still interact with people around you(if you so choose) – you can passthrough with the Quest, but you have to choose between your content and the world. So now I'm spending my time learning how to work with it. It has incredible potential. It is not the mass market device yet, but the next one should be transformative.
- jajko 3y ago> If you can work from an iPad Sorry I can't and why the heck should I. I can get vastly superior work computer for 10% of the price (of goggles) that has none of the apple nor general tablet hard and massive limits. Huge constant time saving on work effectivity. I could do some work with samsung ultra series (mouse, keyboard and massive screen cinnectivity via single usbc out if box), but even that is massively subpar. Maybe we just do vastly different things, but all folks I know fall into my category, IT or not.
- judge2020 3y agoMany people have desk jobs where all they do is emails, web browsing, and editing Google Docs, a perfect scenario. And if you need it, it can show your mac in a virtual window while you have other apps open around you. But this is missing the point that, while it can do work things reasonably well, that's not its primary use case. All of the marketing focuses on content consumption - movies, reading, reliving photos and videos, facetime - and other things typically already done on an iPhone or iPad. For those use cases, it's pretty much perfect, with the text clarity being leagues ahead of any other production device, maybe except some enterprise-targeted Varjo headsets.
- FumblingBear 3y agoI'm going to go against the grain a bit here and say that in my experience, the description of the Vision Pro as a dev kit feels pretty reductive. I was a day 1 purchaser who bought it fully expecting the device to just be an early access "dev kit" and have been shocked at how well it's fit into my day-to-day uses for a huge variety of things. Some of the things I like to do with it: 1. Gaming with friends: I play Baldur's Gate 3 with a group of 4 every week and can very comfortably relax on my recliner while running a discord window and stream BG3 from Geforce Now with an app called Nexus+ just using a ps5 controller. It's a very seamless experience and one of the highlights of my week. 2. Reading comic books: I thing this is one of the most underrated things to do with the Vision Pro. Being able to adjust the size of comic panels to an enormous size helps me appreciate the linework and detail put into every page. 3. Software development/photo + video editing: I use my MacBook Pro + screen mirroring to get a larger screen in an immersive environment that I personally find less distracting to get into a focused state of mind for writing code or creative endeavors like photo + video editing. 4. Entertainment: Watching movies, tv shows, and 180 SBS videos like SliceofLifeVR's content has been awesome and incredibly immersive. I much prefer the Vision Pro to my TV for solo viewing. Obviously, this falls short when looking to share the experience with others, but a lot of my viewing is alone, so it's fine for me. Things that haven't really worked very well that I wanted to like: 1. Reading books + taking notes: I read a lot for book clubs I host and envisioned this being a great way to have a lot of available space to spread out notes and things during book clubs on discord and just find it to not be particularly enjoyable compared to reading a physical book or kindle. 2. VisionOS Native productivity: I've spent a decent amount of time editing spreadsheets and writing documentation with the VisionOS Native Microsoft Office Suite + PDF readers but find that there's a lot of minor things that add up to make it a less usable product for productivity outside of the context of screen mirroring. I'm going to keep trying to figure out a workflow that works better for me, but just haven't yet. For context, I'm in my late 20's and live alone currently, so there are a lot of people for whom this device doesn't make as much sense for—I'm solely describing my personal uses for it as a member of the likely target audience. Overall, I'm extremely pleased that it can do a lot of things that I find fulfilling and entertaining with little to no resistance. I can confidently say that for the tasks I listed above, it's my favorite way of doing them by a pretty large margin. Additionally, I use the Solo Knit Band (M) for all of my usage with no modifications and find it comfortable for around 5-6 hours with no breaks in wearing it. I fully recognize that this isn't the normal experience for many consumers, and I likely will upgrade to some type of Halo band when a company like BoboVR release an AVP product line, but out of the box, the comfort is more than enough for me to use for extended periods of time with no mods. Since buying it on release day, I've used it probably 2-4 hours most days with some days of 10-12 hours and some days of no usage and it's become an integrated part of my lifestyle. If anyone has any questions for me, I'd be happy to answer about my experience with it.
- bookofjoe 3y agoI got mine on day 1 (February 2) and have spent many hours using it and experimenting, trying to make the device as unobtrusive as possible so I can use it for hours watching movies/surfing the web/etc., activities which become enjoyable if you're not constantly adjusting your position/VP's position on your head and face. Here are my takeaways FWIW: 1. The only body position I find comfortable and compatible with prolonged use is laying down on a couch with my head elevated on the arm. This automatically relieves all pressure on the top and back of my head from the device, and transfers it to my face. By finding just the right head position/angle, looking up and away, I can create a balance of downward forces distributed across my forehead/nose/cheekbones. If done just right, that 600 grams (1.3 lbs.) of VP hardware then has an effective surface area of about 8 square inches of skin interface with the foam of the light shield cushion. Note: the VP with knitted strap weighs 600 grams; without the strap it weighs 550 grams (1.2 lbs.) Lying down while using VP, strap weight is irrelevant since it does not exert force on your head. Do this experiment: get bags of coffee beans/nuts/raisins/frozen peas/corn, or a steak or bacon or ground beef, whatever weighs a total of around 1.2 pounds, then lie down and put it over your upper face. Close your eyes and think about how it feels. Remember the VP interface with your skin will be soft foam — NOT product packaging. Consider that when using VP, your attention will NOT be on how it feels but rather on whatever it is you're doing/watching. 2. For use in the supine position as detailed above, the knitted strap is far more comfortable and easy to use compared to the two-strap alternative that comes with VP. You don't even have to tighten the strap when you're lying down, since the seal against your face is provided courtesy of gravity.
- iAkashPaul 3y agoMeta wouldn't even officially sell this let alone have repair shops in India, unlike Apple's strategy of eventually rolling out worldwide
- nottorp 3y ago> What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right Hmm so basically they say Apple massively overengineered it and doesn't expect to sell it to more than 3 people at that price, which is right. But Occulus has been owned by Facebook for a long time now, what stopped them? They could at least have an aspirational "research" device that they sold for 5000, in addition to the semi-affordable (minus privacy concerns) stuff.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoWhat stopped oculus was the realities of a headset. Some of my friends were early adapters to oculus which I got to test out. They would use it as a toy really not as a main device (for gaming in this case) because you’d get nauseous before long and playing in VR is kind of an annoying gimmick once the luster wears off. Mouse and keyboard and a good monitor (or three) is more than fine and you can actually game for hours on that.
- nottorp 3y agoI know, I'm one of the unfortunates that gets nauseous in 15 minutes. Tested on a gen 1 PSVR that i was able to borrow for a weekend. I strongly doubt even the 3500 apple thingy would be much better. But when Facebook bought them, they could have afforded to do the same thing as apple. Make a very expensive "here's the future, now queue up in an orderly manner and wait while we make it affordable" Rift Mega-Giga-Something model.
- johnwbyrd 3y agoWhat I want is a dollar for every evangelist and every early adopter that has told me that the ?R explosion is right around the corner. I have worked in the game industry for 30 years and would be well retired by now, had I made my money by listening to people tell me how ?R would be mainstream in Just A Few Years Now. The tech industry NEVER tires of telling that story and hearing it. Yet it never, ever, EVER happens as a mainstream product.
- kazinator 3y agoMaybe the problem is that actual reality is very three dimensional, and incredibly detailed and immersive. The people who can afford thousands of dollars on VR gear that will be obsolete in three years generally spend their days in nice environments. If you want VR to catch on, make it dirt cheap, so that people in crummy circumstances can use it to escape from reality.
- baby 3y agoBuy a Quest 3, VR is already here, not sure what you're talking about
- nox101 3y agoI'd add to the list (1) Quest is a game console Quest is clearly a gaming device. It boot straight into the store. The re-opens the store at every opportunity. This means, trying to use it for non-gaming means you're constantly reminded your on a VR game console. It'd be like trying to use a PS5 for work. I kind of get why they did it but I hate it. I'm happy my iPhone does not boot into the store and does not go back to the store every time I go to the home screen. (2) Quest doesn't care about productivity This is kind of the same as 1 but, ... I actually try to use my Rift-S with my desktop for certain activities almost daily. I press the right controller's system button, close the home tab, close the library tab, close the store tab, open the desktop. Then I interact with the a few desktop apps. I copy or move files and I run certain apps that I've written that work reasonably well with point and click controls But, I tried accessing my desktop on a Quest via the various link (wired and wireless) and it crashed 1 of 3 times. This is clearly a niche feature to Meta. Meta expects you're just playing games from their store. -- You can certainly argue Meta didn't get those things wrong but for me, they are wrong. The more productivity I can do on a Quest the more useful it is it me any many others. There are more phones than game consoles. IMO they should make the device be general purpose, not sell a "pro" version for productivity. Phone game sales far out shadow game console game sales. They don't need to design the Quest around a game console experience.
- mavamaarten 3y agoThe Quest is a gaming device because productivity just doesn't work on screens that are so low res that it becomes annoying to read text
- HDThoreaun 3y agoQuests screen isnt good enough for reading so productivity is out. Its a gaming device because it cant really be anything else.
- chaostheory 3y agoQuest 3 is good enough albeit barely.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- zaroth 3y ago> This also begs the question… what if you could completely offload the Vision Pro’s compute to another Apple device? Instead of a battery pack on your waist, you just plug in your iPhone. It can provide charge and a nice bit of compute as well.
- threeseed 3y agoVision Pro requires 13V so will never be able to be charged by iPhone. You could be able to plug the iPhone into the battery pack though.
- yayr 3y agoI like the suggestion to "Launch Android 2D tablet apps natively on Quest". Imagine, that you can pin these apps somewhere fix in physical space or walk around with them with fix positioning while being in a high quality pass through...
- zmmmmm 3y agoComing from a senior Oculus lead, the most interesting thing about this write up for me, is what it lacks: it says almost nothing about the software stack / operating system. Still 100% talking about hardware at the bottom and end user applications at the other end. But there is no discussion of the platform which to me is actually the highest value proposition Apple is bringing here. In short: Apple has made a fully realized spatial operating system, while Meta has made an app launcher for immersive Unity/Unreal apps for vanilla Android. You can get away with an app launcher when all you want to support is fully immersive apps that don't talk to each other. But that fails completely if you are trying to build a true operating system. Think about what has to exist, to say, intelligently copy and paste parts of a 3D object made by one application into a 3D object made by another, the same way you would copy a flat image from photoshop into a Word document. The operating system has to truly understand 3D concepts internally. Meta is building these features but it is stuck in a really weird space trying to wedge them in between Android underneath and Unity/Unreal at the application layer. Apple has had the advantage of green field engineering it exactly how they want it to be from the ground up.
- edvinbesic 3y agoI think that’s probably the reason for why they are not talking about it and focusing on specs instead, they know.
- jdprgm 3y agoThis has been my main complaint with Oculus all the way since the Rift days. At that point I assumed it was forthcoming within a few years yet here we are 8 years later and somehow it's not all that different. I don't understand how Oculus/Meta isn't drastically ahead at this point on software.
- IshKebab 3y agoThey are drastically ahead. They have VR games, which are the only real reason to own a VR headset at the moment (and for at least 5 years).
- 3y ago
- tempestn 3y ago> Less so in a scene like this intimate music concert or sports game, but probably a lot more so in dramatic storytelling and other types of more realistic films. Presumably he has a specific type of film in mind here.
- exabrial 3y agoFinally demod one of these things. Yes the VR experience was pretty dang sick, but to be real… the pass though is not as good your own vision. Is it ground breaking? Yes. But it’s v1.0, details are fuzzy, the color palette was meh, and we’ve still yet to invent an instrument with the dynamic contrast of the human eye. I tell you what was quite fascinating: the audio. Nearly every clip they shot they must have used a head dummy spatial microphone and hired industry best to master the audio tracks. My eyes weren’t fooled, but my ears were (other than a roll off under 142hz or so); mainly due to the phase and eq shifting and their use of multiple sources along the head band. I’d really like to see far more focus on the audio side. And as far as actual use cases? They need to go after live sports. Otherwise it’ll stay a gadget of the technophile.
- it 3y agoIsn't one of the biggest problems with these VR headsets the nearness of the display to the eye? It seems like prolonged exposure to this would result in myopia that would worsen faster than it does when exposed to screens that are farther away.
- thot_experiment 3y agoNo. Your eye is generally focusing on infinity in a VR display, that's why myopic people need to wear glasses in VR.
- it 3y agoHow does that happen if the display is right up next to your eye?
- thrdbndndn 3y ago> Motion blur in passthrough mode ended up being one of the many reasons why I decided to return my Vision Pro, because it’s just uncomfortable If I am in VR field, and wasn't very tight on the money (which I assume the author isn't), I probably will keep a Vision Pro with me even if it's a literal peace of junk just so I can play with it occasionally for my curiosity. I wonder what's the difference between me and him. To make it clear, this is not a loaded question but a genuine one. His decision is objectively more reasonable than mine (keeping unneeded junk around), but I just can't get it.
- gfosco 3y agoAt the end of the article, that's my takeaway too. I can't imagine going to this level of effort on the Vision Pro and not keeping it to see how the software develops.
- elif 3y agoI'm so glad he mentioned weight. I was worried that the competition would say 'okay, apple has this so we need this or better' when there is so much on this device that I really don't care for. I don't need curved glass, I don't need fake LED eyes draining my battery, I don't need a physical knob to slowly fade out reality. I would really prefer a device that is lighter, cooler, with longer battery life, more CPU available to the displays that matter, and probably cheaper by having less stuff. I don't think the fake eyes make any part of the experience less creepy in social interactions. Instead that energy could have been used to, for instance, illuminate 850hz IR light so the user would have superhuman night vision. Being in a dark place and not being able to read a menu is much more immersion breaking than having to tell someone "yes I see you" and in fact you have this conversation with everyone regardless of the fake eyes.
- sngz 3y agoWhat you got wrong is meta
- gcanyon 3y agoA very interesting video take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQKMoT-6XSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQKMoT-6XSg tl;dw -- reviewers are understandably focusing on the technical specs, but ignoring the much more simple metric: conceptually, does the device fool the mind into accepting what it sees as "real"? And the answer for the Vision Pro is yes. It will get lighter, better, cheaper, but even now, it's important to realize that the AVP can transport you to another realistic reality in a way no other device has managed. I've only done the in-store demo, but I understand what the video is saying, and it resonates for me.
- speg 3y agoI found the demo a bit underwhelming, if only because it was guided. However I must admit the scene on the mountain, in front of the piano, and on the football pitch were amazing. If that is the future of content, sign me up.
- gcanyon 3y agoFree advice for anyone going in for the demo: be comfortable in VR, read up on how the AVP works ahead of time, and tell the Apple person that. I got to see/experience a lot more during my demo than a friend did because I was always jumping ahead and pushing the pace.
- dan-robertson 3y agoI’m not sure that’s the link you intended? I see the iPhone keynote from 2007.
- gcanyon 3y agoHa, yup, silly youtube. I'll fix it in a second. Edit: there's a time limit on edits? Okay, I'm replying to that comment with the correct URL, and adding it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpbAMJlLTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpbAMJlLTc
- gcanyon 3y agoThe correct URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpbAMJlLTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpbAMJlLTc
- petesergeant 3y ago> This may be the first device category where Apple’s [whatever] may simply not work as previously One day they’ll be right, but it seems like a pretty risky bet, always
- ChildOfChaos 3y agoI mean the Vision Pro seems like an over engineered dev kit to me, like the article describes. The vision pro seems to miss the mark in some many areas and seems like it's ahead of it's time, which is odd for Apple and the Quest 3 seems to beat it in a lot of areas. In some ways I am surprised Apple released it and didn't keep working on it in the lab, but in others, I think they wanted to get it out in users hands and see how they use it and what devs start to build with it, they also wanted to normalise the idea of such devices, so when something more functional is out there, people will be happier to use it.
- cthalupa 3y agoI've been using my AVP pretty regularly since release day. I'm using it less now that the novelty is wearing off, but still fairly often. Things I like: 1) It really is an upgrade vs. working on just my 16" MBP screen. I'm in the minority that actually finds the knit headband pretty comfortable, and can fairly easily go 3-4 hours with it on before it starts to bother me. I do wish there was the option to break specific OSX apps out into their own window or at least have multiple screens, but when I can put most of my work in a web browser or app that the AVP supports, it works extremely well. At worst, it's still more eyeball real estate than just the MBP screen itself. 2) ALVR/Moonlight actually work pretty well, if you have the WiFi infrastructure to support it. It works properly on my Unifi setup but it struggled a bit on a friend's wifi. But it's really cool to play PCVR games using such a high resolution display, as well as playing 2D games on a screen that appears far larger than even my 65" TV 3) 3D movies are insanely good on it. I've always wanted to really love 3D movies, but the downsides for both active and passive 3D really kept them from being a resounding hit with me. Not the case on the AVP. No compromise on brightness or FPS makes it a much nicer experience. 2D movies and TV are also quite nice, with the only real downside being the audio - it's reasonably good, and I can enjoy movies on it no problem, but it also doesn't match proper home theater audio. On the whole, though, I think it's the best personal movie watching experience you can get for 3.5k. A projector that even approaches the visual quality/relative screen size of the AVP is $5k+. Obviously, though, a real home theater setup can be enjoyed with more people. The individual nature can also be a strength, though - if you want to watch something without disturbing your partner, you don't have to have a TV on in the bedroom. 4) I feel significantly less disconnected from the world when using it than I have my other VR/AR headsets. I can function with it on moving around my house, etc. Things I dislike: 1) I would love it if it was lighter and I could wear it all day, but it's not a huge deal for me. 2) The OS is miles ahead of my Quest Pro, but it still feels unpolished at times. When everything works it's perfect - but there are still some bugs. Until 1.1 released, something was going on with Safari that could bring the whole thing to it's knees until you rebooted it. Not sure if it was a memory leak or if it was something else, but if I had a web browser open for an extended period of time, it would eventually bring the whole system to it's knees. This is fixed, but I still have some (more rare) issues with apps going nonresponsive and not being closable via the usual X, etc., requiring a force quit. I'm sure this will all get fixed in time, but it's not the same level of polish I've grown accustomed to with Apple software. 3) I'd really like some way to sync audio to external sources. You can do some hackery with a Siri shortcut, but I'd love to be able to sit down on my couch, put on a movie, and watch it while making use of my sound system vs. being forced to go with the AVP speakers or bluetooth headphones. All in all, I like it quite a bit. I don't know that I would recommend it, with the pricing being what it is - I think if you're a good fit for it, you already are interested in it or will be interested in it when you hear about it in general.
- amelius 3y agoWhat they both got wrong: allowing pr0n without tying accounts to real life names and looking over the user's shoulder.
- qnleigh 3y agoDoes anyone else find it implausible that Apple will offload things like the CPU to the external battery pack like claimed here? The R1 chip surely has to stay on the headset to keep their 12 ms latency, and wouldn't there be a similar issue with moving the CPU away and having to serialize a bunch of data back and forth? Presumably for many AR applications, it's important to have similarly low latency to the CPU. I'm really curious if people with this. More likely they will reduce the weight by release a non-pro version without features that most people don't really need (like the external screen). On the other hand, I think the author is overly pessimistic in thinking that no VR headset will be able to replace his dual 6k monitors. In the long term, aren't we headed for VR with the equivalent of a retina display?
- kungfupawnda 3y agoI tried the Vision Pro today at the apple store in Manhattan by Central Park. I used to own a quest pro, but I sold it a year ago since it was catching dust. My expectations were that the passthrough would almost be life like (or much better than oculus). Reality, I couldn't tell the difference. It still looked like I was watching life through a camera. The UI was also a bit clumsy. I noticed bugs and even the apple employee was stunned how I got a window 'stuck' in a place. It became unresponsive. Having said that, the 3d spatial videos were spectacular. I did feel like I was almost there. The 3d movies were also amazing and had fairly good colors. Overall it wouldn't replace an OLED tv, but it was impressive. When I took it off, I was thankful of how clear I can see with my eyes. Everything seemed like '8k'. I guess the Vision Pro is fun, but it was a bit uncomfortable and not really AR imo