30 ms·
Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor
- yalogin 3y agoIf Sam is self serving and a master tactician, it doesn’t bode well for AI ethics and responsibility. Who am I kidding, that ship has sailed a long time ago. However I really hope Sam doesn’t turn into another Elon musk
- yacinarach 3y ago[flagged]
- helsinkiandrew 3y agohttps://archive.ph/fLzoF https://archive.ph/fLzoF
- neonate 3y agohttps://web.archive.org/web/20231122141935/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/11/22/sam-altman-fired-y-combinator-paul-graham/ https://web.archive.org/web/20231122141935/https://www.washi...
- CartyBoston 3y agoThe bit about PG and Altman parting ways is interesting I wonder if anyone wants to share more :).
- helsinkiandrew 3y agoHadn't seen the tweet from Geoffrey Irving before: https://twitter.com/geoffreyirving/status/1726754270224023971 https://twitter.com/geoffreyirving/status/172675427022402397... > 1. He was always nice to me. > 2. He lied to me on various occasions > 3. He was deceptive, manipulative, and worse to others, including my close friends (again, only nice to me, for reasons)
- rwmj 3y agoLike an AI then.
- xrd 3y agoIt's a very strongly worded statement. Given how connected Altman is, it's very interesting that Irving would publicly state this. It's either very courageous and in service to changing silicon valley, or also very manipulative and in service of benefiting his company. It feels like it could be both. I'm left feeling like there are no angels here. (That's actually funny given how investors love to call themselves angels.) In the end it appears Altman has looked out for himself above all else, which probably enrages his mentors and investors who don't like to lose control, including pg.
- ethbr1 3y agoIt's difficult to conceptualize someone who is ruthless, self-interested, and skilled enough to overcome all problems... except your control over them. Eventually they look at you and decide you're the problem to be overcome. Might not happen for a while, but inevitably will.
- twic 3y agoAre you talking about Sam or an AGI?
- ethbr1 3y agoMaybe.
- PeterisP 3y agoNicely worded, but with regard to the OpenAI conflict I wonder if you intended this to be about Sam Altman or the topic of (G)AI safety or both?
- CSMastermind 3y agoThis is incredibly well put and not something I've seen articulated so clearly before.
- lynx23 3y agoIt is hard to see through the unfolding drama. Since I am lacking data (and we all do), I can only fall back to my intuition. When I was listening to Sam being interviewed by Lex, I had to turn the podcast off because I felt I am listening to a deeply flawed and manipulative character. He left a creepy feeling of "Never ever trust this guy".
- layer8 3y agoIt’s likely that that will eventually be his downfall.
- pnut 3y agoDepends on who you are, I guess? He's optimising for business growth and opportunity, I bet VCs and Moloch have him on on their Christmas card lists.
- refurb 3y agoBillions of dollars can paper over some very serious personality traits.
- bloopernova 3y agoIt's something I have to remind myself frequently: leadership got where they are by surviving the cutthroat backstabbing executive gauntlet. I also have to trust my gut when it sends me warning signals about someone, and I get that a lot from "celebrity" CEOs. After some reflection, I've found that I sympathize with Ilya Sustkever a bit more now. I'm autistic and I suspect he is neurodiverse in some way. I've definitely been misled by manipulative leaders and peers, been enthusiastic for whatever scheme they had, but regretted it after seeing the aftermath or fallout. I can absolutely see ways Sustkever could have been manipulated by others on the board.
- mcpackieh 3y agoYeah, Lex gives me those vibes too.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoPeople love a good cult of personality, don't they
- sparrowInHand 3y agoBillionaire-jesus and his followers, reborn every 10 years.
- ethbr1 3y agoBillionaire dalai lama.
- rsynnott 3y agoWhen did this start, actually? the first I can really think of is Jobs (at least in the billionaire category); treatment of Hubbard had a lot of the same vibes, but not the money.
- keiferski 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
- 38321003thrw 3y agoThis is a very interesting read from the New Thought original sources: Prentice Mulford’s Your Forces and How to Use Them. https://archive.org/details/yourforceshowtou02mulfiala/yourforceshowtou02mulfiala/ https://archive.org/details/yourforceshowtou02mulfiala/yourf...
- kelipso 3y agoIt's the vibe in almost all of the big silicon valley companies and probably most of the smaller ones too. Founder worship etc. Just silicon valley culture I assume. I guess it takes a certain mindset to dedicate the prime of your years to making someone else incredibly rich.
- dist-epoch 3y agoHow dare you question the savior of humanity.
- fvdessen 3y agoI've had the 'chance' to work with some deeply manipulative persons in the past, the kind who goes to your desk and say 'Hey, I noticed you started to speak to X again, and your performance seems to suffer as a result", where X is a friendly colleague that opposed some plan of that person. It is incredibly difficult to keep those people in check as all that behaviour is off the record and impossible to prove. When people complain it's a 'you said, he said' situation where the manipulator inevitably wins. Wether those persons are positive or negative for the company is not all that clear, but they create an incredibly unpleasant work environment.
- cma 3y agoThis endorsement of Sam from 2011 is actually pretty damning, though it is so long ago if it were the only thing it wouldn't be a huge red flag: >I just saw Sam Altman speak at YCNYC and I was impressed. I have never actually met him or heard him speak before Monday, but one of his stories really stuck out and went something like this: > "We were trying to get a big client for weeks, and they said no and went with a competitor. The competitor already had a terms sheet from the company were we trying to sign up. It was real serious. > We were devastated, but we decided to fly down and sit in their lobby until they would meet with us. So they finally let us talk to them after most of the day. > We then had a few more meetings, and the company wanted to come visit our offices so they could make sure we were a 'real' company. At that time, we were only 5 guys. So we hired a bunch of our college friends to 'work' for us for the day so we could look larger than we actually were. It worked, and we got the contract." > I think the reason why PG respects Sam so much is he is charismatic, resourceful, and just overall seems like a genuine person. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3048944 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3048944 I think the article mentions what may be this same incident, without saying how it was done: > Rabois noted that Altman, as a Stanford dropout, persuaded a major telecommunications company to do business with his start-up Loopt — the same quality, he said, that enabled Altman to persuade Microsoft to invest in OpenAI. From the earlier comment, it seems he persuaded the telecom essentially through fraud though maybe not legally so.
- strangescript 3y ago
- keepamovin 3y agoNow that he’s back with MSOAI I think we’ve got AGI disaster in 7 years. Thin possibility of good path for humanity. I wish he’d stuck to his guns and gone his own way, no MS, and no OAI. No disrespect to MS, they good, but this path is bad.
- Abekkus 3y agoIf you want to be a doomer, you don't need agi, just autonomous weapons, which ML can definitely help build.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoYou don’t even need ML for that plus it already exists, Soviets had Dead Hand decades ago, an autonomous weapon system capable of ending the world.
- Abekkus 3y agoAutononous weapons capable of ending the world are old, yes. Autonomous weapons capable of securing territory and resources, and personnel, that's on the way.
- keepamovin 3y agoInteresting. Do you have any specific program heads-up about this? I'm curious to read more. :)
- kjkjadksj 3y agoWhat might be interesting to think about is the prevalence of human controlled drones in warfare today, in various environments and climates as we currently speak. Right now they require a human to operate and identify targets or perform defensive maneuvering. All of this videography is undoubtedly being logged and used for training more autonomously controlled drones. Eventually an operator would just deploy a swarm at a sector akin to flagging it for an air strike, and drones would eliminate anyone or anything of interest there.
- sertbdfgbnfgsd 3y agoYeah, the craziest thing for me to come out of this was how everyone in HN just assumed he was "innocent". Poor poor sam altman, he's a victim. He comes across as a sleazebag to me.
- hutzlibu 3y ago"how everyone in HN just assumed he was "innocent"." My impression was rather a overwhelmingly "wtf is going on?" edit: I still don't know enough, to judge anyone involved
- sigmar 3y agoPeople love to see things in black and white without nuance, "oh you think the board should reverse the decision, that must mean you think Altman was innocent and should never be fired!". My read was that most people here (at least on sunday and monday) viewed the board as making major missteps, that doesn't mean all of HN is "team sam"
- dmix 3y agoIt’s just another hot take instant reaction of a new headline. Social media threads on controversial topics are always a whiplash, people love the swings in narratives, the opportunity to be contrarian or superior to the other people commenting on the topic, because they knew better. A new headline by a journo seeking their own clickbait angle comes out and the flood of “See it was really just [black/white] position and you were all wrong” is the most classic stereotypical social media take to a now past it’s prime story, when IRL it’s as nuanced and shades of grey as ever.
- coliveira 3y agoI have no doubts about it. The good thing is that now I know a place I don't want to work for.
- breakfastduck 3y agoI know people are innocent until proven guilty but it does seem rather bizarre also that he's had literally 0 media scrutiny / never been asked about (to my knowledge) the fact his own sister claims he abused her for years when they were young.
- whyleyc 3y agohttps://web.archive.org/web/20231122121846/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/11/22/sam-altman-fired-y-combinator-paul-graham/ https://web.archive.org/web/20231122121846/https://www.washi...
- CPLX 3y agoMust say that a spirited defense from Keith Rabois is not the best way to dispel rumors you’re a predatory sociopath.
- ur-whale 3y agohttps://archive.is/eVZvb https://archive.is/eVZvb
- bananapub 3y agoit is absolutely fascinating how in all the threads about him, there's all these huge fans, and some people who are apparently highly connected, but no one ever seems to discuss why he has these fancy jobs, why he left others, and why is apparently so well regarded?
- Solvency 3y agoIt's strangely paradoxical. Sam has zero charisma. Zero looks. No technical ability. He's not a storyteller. He's not a hype man. He comes off as a mildly surly sloth when he talks. His actual pre-OpenAI achievements from a product perspective are a joke. But he was nevertheless "there" for YC and "there" in OpenAI, and a bunch of money was raised, and he's successfully managed to get all spotlights on him at all times, so he's highly visible. He's like a weird geek following plays from Trumps book: just stay highly visible, associate with any possible win, and be at the center of attention. Why does it work? Because subconsciously who WOULDNT want to operate this way in life? It takes the least amount of effort compared to many other job tracks or even CEO tracks, and it's become wildly profitable for him. So the cult of personality idolizing America of today can't help but want their tech Jesus fantasy to work out.
- CPLX 3y agoIt’s actually much less confusing than that. It’s clear he has a knack for becoming a favorite son of billionaire oligarchs who see him as useful. Which, assuming he’s like everyone else who’s done that, was accomplished by a combination of flattery and willingness to operate on behalf of the ruling class totally untethered from any principles whatsoever.
- kossTKR 3y agoIt's pretty incredible that the upper echelons have so thoroughly psyopped everyone below them that the public runs confused around in an endless maze of ideology, false pretexts and stirred up drama. This way only insiders recognise the most fundamental realpolitical power struggles of all ages; that the "very confusing" wars, coups or power grabs is not very complex at all but always - almost as a physical principle - stemming from the richest members of society pulling the strings to benefit themselves. Then some note or some FOIA request will be released in 40 years about the orchestration and no one will care. Just follow the money, or the networks of people and it's easy to see the undercurrents of class warfare, elite power via the security state or oligarch clubs siphoning money and power away from the public, but that's called conspiracy these days and is dangerous (to the ruling classes).
- Keats 3y agoI can't believe someone that created Worldcoin could not be trustworthy.
- mandmandam 3y agoWorldcoin alone is so, so damning of his character. Cartoon villain shit. It's hard to square that whole thing with the way people talk about him here. But every once in a while it hits; this is the guy who wanted to collect everyone's bloody retina pattern, all for a crypto so obviously bad in nearly every fundamental aspect.
- tim333 3y agoI'm a happy Worldcoin user. If the providers are happy and the users are happy I'm not sure what's cartoon villainish about it?
- 93po 3y agotheir long term project doesn't save or store retina patterns in any way. they store of a hash of it that is mathematically impossible to reverse. it's clear you wildly misunderstand how this works, i would encourage you to go learn more. i'd also welcome you to explain how the crypto side of it is bad in comparison to other uses of blockchains
- mandmandam 3y agoI don't know what the gaps in your knowledge are to not see Worldcoin as a scam. And I'm not being paid to find out. But it's a fuckin scam. It's exploitative, and sleazy as fuck. It uses crappy blockchain tech, the orbs are proprietary, and you really ought to think twice before condescending at people who try to help you out on this.
- Clubber 3y agoI hear NFT's are gonna really hit soon....
- 3y ago
- mousetree 3y ago> One of those people whose career Altman helped propel was Ilya Sutskever, chief scientist and board member at OpenAI — the person who ultimately fired him. Ilya was plenty successful before OpenAI and would've been just fine without Altman helping to "propel" his career.
- dishwashing 3y agoThis statement about Ilya seems just ridiculous to me. Ilya was one of the people who created all these ML/Deep Learning hype with the "ImageNet moment". I don't care much about all this VC stuff, but before 2023, Ilya seemed to me much more famous than Sam.
- VeejayRampay 3y agoSam is the entrepreneur / vision guy so he gets all the love here as opposed to the actual tech guy It's modern Jobs / Wozniak and Hacker News, despite the name, is ultimately fan service for the archetype of the former, not the latter
- himaraya 3y agoIndicative that many sources still come from Sam's camp
- screye 3y agoHAHA, I know. Ilya, a nobody who wrote the most seminal paper of the last 10 years. The guy that Eric Schmidt and Elon broke their friendship over was just a random nobody. Come on. It is no secret that when OpenAI formed, every single researcher joined so they could work with Ilya (and Zaremba who worked with him, but was less famous). Greg is brilliant but ML people didn't care for him and Sam 'one of those VC guys'. A lot of their best hires had already worked in Ilya/Zaremba before they joined OpenAI. OpenAI might have moved past needing Ilya's brilliance to innovate, but if anyone gets to claim that they 'made' OpenAI, it is Ilya.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Merrill 3y agoBased on the article and the loyalty shown by openai employees, he appears to be the "difficult to manage" type, rather than the "difficult to work for" type. That's not necessarily a bad thing in employees. I was once told that it is easier to round off the corners of a cube than to develop corners on a sphere.
- rsynnott 3y agoIME one almost always implies the other.
- lobsterthief 3y agoNot in my experience, at all. Working beneath someone who’s difficult to work for can make your every day at work terrible. Working with someone who’s hard to work with is much more maintainable since you’re more in control of the interactions and can effect change by working with people higher in the org.
- rsynnott 3y agoOh, I mean that if someone’s a bad subordinate or peer they’ll probably also be a bad boss, or vice versa. I’d agree that a bad boss tends to be a worse thing to have than the other too.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoBut not as a truism. It's possible to manipulate well enough that people above and below you both believe you are working in their interest, but it's quite hard. Great for job security if you can pull it off.
- 1123581321 3y agoI haven’t seen that. Some of my favorite coworkers and managers have been people who were hard to manage. It’s because they have strong principles and they prioritize good relations with their peers and subordinates over being promotable. I understand you are probably talking about people who uniformly act like jerks but I haven’t found them to be as common.
- throwbadubadu 3y ago> "Our mission is to ensure that artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity." Ahhh now I get that, all humanity, exclude noone :D > pointed to Altman’s aggressive fundraising efforts for a chips venture with autocratic regimes in the Middle East, which raised concerns about the use of AI to facilitate state surveillance and human rights abuses.
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- patall 3y ago> Another person familiar with Altman’s thinking said he was willing to meet with the board’s shortlist of proposed candidates, except for one person whom he declined on ethical grounds. Now you have me interested, who could that one person be? Charles Koch? Henry Kissinger? Because many of those I would normally have guessed are either in the article as possible collaborator (middle-easter connection) or is already an investor (like Elmo). Honestly, who is too ethically different here and yet still within the anglosphere to be considered a board member?
- cma 3y ago> Henry Kissinger? I think his stock as potential boardmember probably went down with his service on the Theranos board.
- EFreethought 3y agoIf accepting a job offer from Richard Nixon doesn't sink you, then nothing will.
- rsynnott 3y agoCan’t imagine Kissinger is a popular choice for boards today…
- aidenn0 3y agoAssuming he's as manipulative as the worst reports of him say, "ethical grounds" translates to "doesn't believe my lies"
- VectorLock 3y ago"Ethical grounds" read: has them.
- someperson 3y agoHenry Kissinger is 100 years old
- photochemsyn 3y agoThe fight over OpenAI's leadership is more like celebrity gossip than anything else. The most salient takeaway is that closed-source proprietary LLMs are a bad idea and that everyone with any long-term interest in the subject should switch over to the open-source model. It also has revealed that non-profit philanthropic business models are little more than marketing ploys designed to fool the gullible, and that 'corporate values' statements should be viewed in the same light as the self-serving claims of narcissitc sociopaths are. In particular OpenAI's vague claims about 'ensuring AGI benefits humanity' were so subject to interpretation as to be meaningless (e.g. some may claim that cutting the size of the current human population in half would be a great benefit to humanity, others would argue for doubling it, see the history of eugenics for more of that flavor). For-profit entities who are upfront about the fact that their only interest is in making money for their investors, executives and stock-holding employees are at least honest about their goals. Of course, this means their activities must be subjected to independent governmental regulation (which is the outcome that the whole 'we have values' BS is intended to avoid).
- andsoitis 3y ago> The most salient takeaway is that closed-source proprietary LLMs are a bad idea and that everyone with any long-term interest in the subject should switch over to the open-source model. What is your reasoning for stating that closed-source proprietary LLMs are a bad idea and that anyone with long-term interest in the subject (AGI?) should switch to open-source models? Open-source tends to foster monopoly and relies on free labor (see Google, Meta). AI also relies on free labor.
- sfjailbird 3y agoI really liked the New Yorker portrait 'Sam Altman's Manifest Destiny': https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-manifest-destiny https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-ma... It seemed to really get to the depths of his personality, both the impressive parts, and with some very subtle jabs.
- selimthegrim 3y agoI objected to his choice of Rickover as a role model in a FB comment thread and apparently he had a mutual friend with me so he jumped in complaining that the reporter hadn’t captured everything accurately (not quite to the point of “did me dirty”)
- CamperBob2 3y agoWhat's wrong with Rickover as a role model? If he'd been able to do for the civilian nuclear power sector what he did for the Navy, a lot of things would be a lot better now.
- mandevil 3y agoRickover effectively seized control of the entire USN submarine arm and ran it as a personal fief for three decades. I don't think that could possibly work with civilian power in the US, because it's NOT a military organization and can't be changed by top-down mandate. A 1978 USNI Proceedings essay on NR and leadership[1], which won a bunch of prizes, had this great description of Rickover's micromanagement: "Each nuclear submarine is commanded by two people: its captain and the Director, Division of Naval Reactors [Rickover]. The captain has full responsibility for the military operations of his ship as well as for power plant safety. He also has full authority over the military operations. NR has much of the authority over the power plant; its Director has been known to place a call to a submarine’s engineering space telephone and then personally direct the commanding officer how to organize his watch bill." That level of micromanagement wasn't great inside the US Navy, a military organization (hence the essay) and would have spectacularly bombed and flamed out in the civil power world and is also not a great idea for the commercial world at large. This is why taking Rickover as a model is something that you should do very very carefully. He did some things right, but a whole lot of things can't be brought over to your company, in a way that suggests using him as a baseline takes you further away from a good answer. I wrote a paper decades ago comparing Rickover and Jackie Fisher- of HMS Dreadnought/HMS Invincible fame- as technological entrepreneur's introducing new technology into their respective fleets. And one lesson I took away was that both of them took a whole lot of advantage of being in a military service where they could issue orders and have them be legally obeyed in a way that commercial people just can't get away with. Employees will just leave your company if you tried a bunch of the crap that Rickover did. [1]: A badly OCR'd version of the essay is available here: https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1978/july/leadership-forum-leadership-and-nuclear-power https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1978/july/leaders... The author, then Lt Ralph Chatham, would go on to have the first ever novel published by the US Naval Institute Press dedicated to him. "To Ralph Chatham, a sub driver who spoke the truth" is how Tom Clancy's _Hunt for Red October_ begins.
- lhnz 3y agoIf Paul Graham fired Sam Altman from YCombinator it's interesting that he appears to have such a favourable opinion of him [0]. However, personally, what I've taken away from this is that he is a much better strategic/tactical operator than many other high-flying executives and very capable of winning the respect and trust of a lot of smart people. I wouldn't expect OpenAI to be run by anybody that wasn't revered in this way; a lot of CEOs aren't saints. [0] https://twitter.com/search?q=from:paulg%20since:2019-01-01%20sam&src=typed_query&f=live https://twitter.com/search?q=from:paulg%20since:2019-01-01%2...
- tom_ 3y agoI dunno, man. As an English person, to me these tweets sound a lot like he is publicly calling Altman a cunt.
- lhnz 3y agoReally? It seems like a glowing appraisal. He seems to think that Sam is devestatingly effective at what he does.
- tom_ 3y agoIf I didn't know Graham was English, perhaps I would take them at face value - and, indeed, perhaps I should anyway. (And my characterisation was an extreme one!) But: they do just all sound rather coldly backhanded, if you ask me.
- skilled 3y agoI like your way of seeing it and I see the same now. If this is true (the article) then for sure it’s a nice inside jab that only Sam would get. Also, I doubt pg would hold a grudge for years on end. You learn many lessons in life and some you are bound to repeat because of stubbornness or whatever.
- itronitron 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- intellectronica 3y agoSensationalist clickbait title. There's nothing in the article that supports the claim that Altman has been "fired". It's almost invariably the case that to most of us, people who are powerful and effective appear "manipulative". In fact, they are manipulative, which is how they achieve so much. It's only a problem if they are manipulative in the service of goals that are unethical or harmful. See also: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-... - successful, powerful people ("sociopaths" in vgr's comical treatise on office politics) are people who create and shape reality. Those who are not able to create and shape reality themselves (the "clueless", according to vgr) benefit from having someone create a reality for them, while at the same time, take offence at the manipulation.
- laaaaea 3y ago> nothing in the article that supports the claim that Altman has been "fired". it's worse. The article say he invested in companies he was being paid to evaluate for YC, perfect reason to end an exec career. And then was NOT fired.
- cactusplant7374 3y agoIsn’t that what PG does? Isn’t that what YC does?
- DotaFan 3y agoI am no behaviorist expert, but for me, someone who in world of trouble can post tweets as relaxing as Sam's, and do smile poses comes of as extremely manipulative.
- imjonse 3y agoHe may turn from powerful and well liked startup poster-child to simply powerful (like Larry Ellison, Bezos, Gates and countless other CEOs have in the past).
- fevangelou 3y agoIt's oh so weird the article does not mention any of these though... - https://twitter.com/phuckfilosophy/status/1635704398939832321 https://twitter.com/phuckfilosophy/status/163570439893983232... (SA's sister - also have a look at her recent posts) - Also: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/QDczBduZorG4dxZiW/sam-altman-s-sister-annie-altman-claims-sam-has-severely https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/QDczBduZorG4dxZiW/sam-altman... (utterly distressing) - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1727096607752282485 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1727096607752282485 (check the comment with snapshots of the letter - "strangely" that Gist was deleted)
- whalesalad 3y agonitter link https://nitter.net/ajayjuneja/status/1727117041977766182#m https://nitter.net/ajayjuneja/status/1727117041977766182#m
- twic 3y agoSounds like Roko's Basilisk knows where he lives.
- smegsicle 3y agothat can't be true- why would sam altman and the rest of their family deny annie altman's inheritance? it's not like they need the money themselves either this annie character is making stuff up, or the whole rest of her family are some kind of comic book villains
- sudosysgen 3y agoI haven't read enough into the story to make up an opinion. However, purely based on what you're saying, that's completely normal abuser behaviour. You wouldn't be denying the inheritance to enrich yourself, but rather to prevent someone from becoming economically empowered and reducing your power over them. It's a very common tactic.
- subpixel 3y agoWhile it’s true that all unhappy families are unhappy in their own way, this sort of seemingly illogical vindictiveness is exceedingly common.
- kwertyoowiyop 3y agoWill this tempest in a teapot never end?
- throwaway98221 3y agoPossible psychopath: https://hintjens.gitbooks.io/psychopathcode/content/preface.html https://hintjens.gitbooks.io/psychopathcode/content/preface....
- belligeront 3y agoI don’t have a strong opinion on the events of the past several days. But a lot of the behavior I’ve seen on twitter from Open AI employees, some led by Sam, feels very cult like: posting in all lower case, the heart emojis, rumors of employees calling each other in the middle of the night to pressure people to sign letters supporting Sam. There isn’t necessarily anything wrong of this behavior. It is good to like your coworkers, but something about the manipulative nature of it triggers an “ick” feeling that I can’t really put into words. I’ve also spent very little time in the Bay Area, but from afar, there does seem to be something in the DNA that makes people there more susceptible to cult like behavior.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- FredPret 3y agomaybe they all remapped their shift keys
- blitzar 3y agohttps://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121980&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121980&page=1 Many aides in the new administration assigned to the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, adjacent to the White House, discovered Monday that their computer keyboards were missing the "W" key — a critical problem given their boss' name is George W. Bush, and he is often referred to simply as "W," to distinguish him from his presidential dad.
- elAhmo 3y agoI found those posts extremely weird, the emojis and lowercase tweets and screenshots of Notes. I would imagine people who were/are in charge of a company on the fast track to being worth hundreds of billions / trillion USD would be a bit more serious, but here they are, quoting each other tweets with heart emojis.
- gsuuon 3y agoThe absolute uniformity was a bit disconcerting to be honest, but I can also see it being just a great display of comradery. I'm still unsure about how to feel about the thing with it mostly resolved.
- anoncow 3y agoHit piece by wapo.
- objektif 3y agoAWS you say.
- jorater 3y agoFrom Garry Tan ~2 Months ago: https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1702561008190165448 https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1702561008190165448 > The scariest sociopaths are the ones you let in to your house, who met your family, who you broke bread with > ... In a comment: > Just heard some disturbing news about someone who I once thought highly of
- thimkerbell 3y agoI would like to message jorater warning him about drawing conclusions from a subtweet when there's deviousness afoot, but hacker news doesn't have that feature.
- thimkerbell 3y agoOf course, what is wisdom but accumulated subtweets from your own useraccount.
- ojosilva 3y ago> Though full reasoning for Altman’s initial firing is still unclear, one person familiar with the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters, pointed to Altman’s aggressive fundraising efforts for a chips venture with autocratic regimes in the Middle East, which raised concerns about the use of AI to facilitate state surveillance and human rights abuses. That's a concern of mine from one year ago when ChatGPT exploded: Altman holds a feeble position as a zero-equity co-founder of a non-profit. He should be enabled to become a stinking rich SV mogul of some sort, or at least have his existence tied to substantial equity. Otherwise, having power but no (huge, absurd) money, or promises thereof, from his commitment to OpenAI will only boost these side gigs or even future coups. He's an ambitious and powerful leader and entrepreneur, he should be compensated accordingly so that OpenAI goals become aligned to his own. Somehow the new board's powerful oversight goals should be leveraged with valuable equity for Altman (and other key people, employees) or equivalent. Create a path to a for-profit, consolidate the Incs and LLCs floating around - OpenAI has a complex structure for such a young enterprise. He has a comfortable upper hand right now (employees, Ilya, a resigning board, MSFT), so this is the moment to rewrite OpenAI's charter.
- fiforpg 3y agoWasn't really following the subject, but amazed at how tendentious the writing here is. Starting with the title, unsubstantiated claims, really weird turns of phrase, etc. Here's an example: > not just common, it’s start-up gospel from Altman’s longtime mentor, venture capitalist Peter Thiel — according to whom? Is it supposed to be common knowledge? Is this even a helpful parallel? In comparison, reporting on FT on this same topic is a lot more subdued and matter-of-fact.
- RiOuseR 3y ago[dead]
- Gaussian 3y agoSam is a leader. Let there be no doubt. Does he have foibles? I’m sure. I do. Everybody has people out there who will proffer criticism of them, especially those at the top of the pyramid. Our summer at YC was heavily influenced by him; he always had time for us, and always thought hard about our problems.
- mutualaidwins 3y ago[dead]
- justincredible 3y ago[dead]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dougmwne 3y agoI think everyone is missing the point. Sam Altman seems to be a reasonably effective leader (and certainly flawed and a bit sociopathic), but ultimately unimportant and replaceable. This was not about Sam, this was about the strategic direction of a critical Microsoft partner. Microsoft felt Sam would take orders and therefore supported him. If Sam ever asserts himself, he will be gone, just like the board was replaced.
- moogly 3y agoPerhaps the least interesting most talked-about person of 2023.
- tracerbulletx 3y agoCEOs are professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft, they use their communications to achieve an end, expressing their inner selves is not the point. You might know a great kind person who is a car salesman, when they are at work a good one comes off as genuine and friendly, the things they're saying include many truths, but their words and actions are primarily designed to sell cars. Assume this is true of any professional communicator when they're communicating.
- charlie0 3y agoThis the main reason I don't trust people who are in the business of "selling". On one hand, it's nice being around those kinds of people. On the other hand, it's hard to take any of the nice things they say seriously. Most of them say nice things to be likeable, not because they actually mean or will do what they say. I've learned to pay close attention to what salesmen do, rather than what is said. The actual truth will be revealed by their actions.
- gretch 3y ago>I've learned to pay close attention to what salesmen do, rather than what is said. Yes this is always a wise thing to do. >Most of them say nice things to be likeable, not because they actually mean or will do what they say. I disagree with this take. I mean I’m sure there’s snakes out there. What I see in life though, is that most people don’t say enough nice things, even things they genuinely feel. They hold back from calling their dad or wife and saying “I love you”. Or giving a compliment to someone on the street if you like their outfit that you can tell they put time into. I think a lot of salespeople are just good at “opening the gates” a little. Personally I’ve been on a quest to be less stoic when it comes to expressing joy, and I highly recommend, especially for typical computer science personalities.
- turzmo 3y agoPeople could afford to say more nice things. Perhaps it would even devalue the false flattery used by salespeople to their advantage. OTOH the parent comment's take seems reasonable. Calling your dad and saying "I love you" because you want to be written into the will is sort of the level we're dealing with here.
- greatNespresso 3y agoIt came as a surprise for me to learn that PG fired Sam. It's the first time that I read this actually, and if that's true, I find it kind of mysterious that it remained a secret for so long. Or maybe I missed the news somehow but I could not find any other mention of that event on Google.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoI've definitely never heard of it, and I was pretty shocked when I read it given how much positive stuff pg has written about sama, and the article itself says the firing "has not been previously reported". Reading some recent pg tweets through this lens, though, I think it makes sense. E.g. there is this tweet: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1726198939517378988 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1726198939517378988. Both of the following can be true (and more to the point, I think the following two items are flip sides of the same coin): 1. Sam is an absolute masterful negotiator and is incredibly well-respected in the valley because his skills at assembling people and resources are unmatched. 2. Sam can be manipulative and self-serving, sometimes making decisions that are nominally about a higher goal but (not really coincidentally) are self-aggrandizing. I see this trait in lots of effective, famous people. There have been tons of comparisons in the news recently to Steve Jobs, but for me for some reason Anna Wintour comes to mind. I don't think many people would describe Wintour as "nice" as she is known for being kind of ruthless and manipulative (she was "The Devil" after all...), but tons of people in the fashion industry are incredibly loyal to her based on her abilities to identify talent and get shit done.
- demadog 3y agoI predict his character arch will be similar to Adam Neumann and Travis Kalanick - first the media gushes over him and praises him as a genius. Then the media starts to question him. Then they start to fully dig in and dig up a ton of dirt. With no mainstream outlet pushing forth the allegations his sister is claiming on social, I imagine right now they are looking under every rock on that end. I respect his hustle but there is something about him in watching him speak live and in person that comes off as incredibly manipulative. He knows how to speak and pause in a way that gets the audience to laugh and gives soundbites. I am long OpenAI but I don’t trust Sam. He could follow the character arch of his friend Thiel where the media come after him but he’s too resilient. Or Zuckerberg where the media hated him for years and then moved on. What do you think?
- skilled 3y agoI dislike the fact that he peddles the AGI angle too much. Literally, way above normal. It would be nice to see him be down to Earth for a change and show some compassion but what do I know.. maybe those aren’t his strongest qualities.
- cooper_ganglia 3y agoI trust Greg, and Greg trusts Sam.
- mcpackieh 3y agoTransitive trust is a bad idea. The telephone game aka "chinese whispers" demonstrates why.
- dchftcs 3y ago>I respect his hustle but there is something about him in watching him speak live and in person that comes off as incredibly manipulative. He knows how to speak and pause in a way that gets the audience to laugh and gives soundbites. I am long OpenAI but I don’t trust Sam. You can say the same thing about Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs is a jerk for sure but a bad personality does not predict success or failure as much as you (or we) hope to. And what people say about your character is also overly dependent on results. Only time will tell whether Sam Altman will be considered a villain or a flawed hero in media.
- vikramkr 3y agoAt least one of the arguments against him, that he cared too much about openai to lead Microsoft effectively, probably helps him more than it hurts. Otherwise, idk how much of this was really about Sam altman as much as it was a staggeringly incompetent board that drove employees and investors to unify and protest en masse to save the organisation from itself. I guess there's a chance there's an AGI in the basement but if it was actually about safety they should fucking say what the hell they were freaking out about. But if they leave the only logical conclusion as this being a power struggle between someone who wants to move fast and make bank and a board that wants to kill the company for ego reasons - uhh yeah that's not a hard choice
- coolbreezetft22 3y agoWhy are people so obsessed with this guy? Keep falling into the same trap of Cult of the Tech CEO
- gumballindie 3y agoSomeone else posted it around here - as religion recedes people need new deities. Couple that with an increase in popularity of conspiracy theories and you get altman and ai.
- zpeti 3y agoWhy do people watch pro sports? Why do we fall into the cult of the sports personality? Why do people follow movie stars? Because we’re human, and we gossip and obsess over high performers.
- coolbreezetft22 3y agoI was actually just thinking that I really miss the days when it was sports teams and athletes that people obnoxiously worshipped. Need to go back to Patriots fans being the most annoying people around.
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoOh that is still happening, I promise you. Though currently the most annoying fanbase is probably the Eagles right now.
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoI think it’s his consistency; how does he garner this much respect from SV? Surely, the logic must go, he’s worthy of it. This whole thing feels like Altman expected some back and forth here between him and the board, but in their inexperience they vastly overreacted to what was probably “standard” corporate maneuvering. He assumed there would be steady escalation, but they went right for the endgame well before passing the many opportunities for compromise that usually show up in fights between CEOs and their board.
- rideontime 3y agoA reminder that the "e" in "e/acc" does not stand for "ethical"
- reqo 3y agoVery interesting if this is true, considering how pg has shown huge support for sama during this drama!
- tempsy 3y agothe more outwardly successful someone is by modern standards (ceo, celebrities, other powerful people) the more likely it is they are ethically compromised in some way you don't reach the top without screwing over a lot of people along the way
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y agoRed pill: Most very successful people are like this.
- onetokeoverthe 3y ago[dead]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- KingOfCoders 3y agoIf this is true, interesting, as PG was several times profits over ethics (e.G. see the AirBnB discussion on HN he participated in).
- joering2 3y agoIt is somewhat different. AirBnB founder Nathan Blecharczyk was not shopping around, but rather at some point he was the largest spammer in USA, where even FBI was interested in his dealings. Interestingly, the 3 articles I was able to find on this subject some 5 years ago (and posted to HN at some point) from major news outlets, are all gone now. I think hurting your own business versus being a scumbag scammer will get you much different treatment, even from PG.
- KingOfCoders 3y ago"I think hurting your own business versus being a scumbag scammer will get you much different treatment, even from PG. " But AirBnB was defended by PG and Altman fired? You see me confused. What I've ment, PG defended - as far as I remember[0] - all AirBnB unethical things, while the article says he fired Sam Altman. [0] I might be wrong and need to search for the comments, if not deleted.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Arson9416 3y agoStep 1: Dazzle an influential person Step 2: Persuade them to hitch their reputation to you Step 3: Do whatever you want with minimal repercussions Follow these 3 steps and influential people will actively fight on your behalf, against their own best interests, to avoid embarrassing themselves and diminishing their reputations. Use each influential person as a stepping stone to an even more influential person and repeat.
- tempaccount420 3y agoOr, when you fire people, have a clear reason for it. Not being "consistently candid" is not that.
- whatshisface 3y agoYou want companies to post the reasons for every firing on Twitter?
- YetAnotherNick 3y agoNo, but at least tell the reasons to the CEO you replaced him with. Even Shear was kept in dark and was planning to leave OpenAI.
- mock-possum 3y agoI’m ambivalent about it in general, but curious in this case specifically.
- dghlsakjg 3y agoNo. But if you are going to make a statement, it behooves you to fill it with substance.
- whatshisface 3y agoThat's not how board press release are. I can't help but feel everyone is using Twitter rules to study a corporate game.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- armchairhacker 3y agoWhy was Sam fired from Y Combinator? Why was he fired from OpenAI? Not saying he's good or trustworthy, but it's unfair to speak badly about him without evidence or even examples of wrongdoing.
- basisword 3y agoIsn't being fired implicit evidence of wrongdoing? Especially when it's not an isolated incident.
- jeffreyrogers 3y agoIt might just mean your skills weren't appropriate for the role you were hired for. It doesn't mean you did anything wrong.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- _fizz_buzz_ 3y agoKind of interesting that Jessica Livingston (Paul Graham's spouse) tweeted this a couple of days ago: > The reason I was a founding donor to OpenAI in 2015 was not because I was interested in AI, but because I believed in Sam. So I hope the board can get its act together and bring Sam and Greg back. https://twitter.com/jesslivingston/status/1726284364923781273 https://twitter.com/jesslivingston/status/172628436492378127...
- toomuchtodo 3y agoTo be a fly on the wall when Paul and Jessica talk about Sam in private. So many interesting questions never to be answered. (no other reason than to understand how all the puzzle pieces come together)
- hindsightbias 3y agoOn one side Paul calls it AIgiarism and she's throwing donations at it. Maybe we should all hedge our bets when it comes to our AGI overlords.
- iaseiadit 3y agoYC is invested in OpenAI. Wonder if they want a win-at-all-costs type person (if we go along with this premise) running a company they’re invested in, yet not want him running their company.
- eksapsy 3y agoive been working for a company for 3 years and i had great behavior, respected the people around me, they hired me from the consultant company because they liked me so much they wanted to take me because i had already done so much for that company that usually employees don't take the initiative to do (performance fixes nobody asked or tickets for performance that were abandoned because the developer just got bored of it, then being congratulated for fixing the performance, making new projects inside the company and them realizing my new potentials and making new tools and services etc.) Then I got fired on the spot for just talking a little more angrier at the manager because they put me on a task that nobody communicated to me they wanted in 1 month, and then when I realized after the leader was compaining that they wanted the task in 1 month I was like "do you realize you placed me in a project I dont know, the devs themselves don't know some answers I'm asking for the project, i have to implement a whole driver for getting API signals etc." you get the point. The leader asked me to put me in a project he did not even code in ever, and he thought it was gonna take 1 month and took 4-5 months and when I realized that he thought that I contested. To the point that the first manager agreed with me that "yeah it's not a 1 month task." and he was one of the best programmers in the company and was just a manager now. Like the first manager on the line agreed with me but on a 1-1 meeting, so his voice was not heard to the leader. So I contacted the second manager on the line to have a conversation with the leadership about this task and that I had these concerns, and after realizing he agrees with the leader despite him not even remotely knowing what we were doing, I was kinda pissed off not gonna lie. It was the first time I actually just kinda exploded to him which diplomatically ngl is bad move ... but i was angry because I've pissed blood for this task, coz "the leader wanted it in 1 month" and I did unfortunately work days and hours just because I felt like it out of pressure, and I thought that I DIDN'T want to be fired for this stupid task taking "longer than the leader thought should take" despite him not even having direct experience on the project or the Data Aggregator API they placed me to get data from. But was I fired because of MY mistake? No. I was fired, on the spot, without notice, after working for 3 years and doing so many things for that company, coz I made somebody angry. And please believe me when I say that when I told this same manager "hey this other guy (not the leader) treated me with disrespect" he just said "yeah you know how he is we all know, he is just this way". Like what the hell? So, I'm so bad you're gonna fire me on the spot for making you angry just so you can powertrip, but he's "just the way he is"? You guys get my point. You can get fired, without it being your actual fault. Yes, you may have some responsibility, as I had to be more diplomatic but I'm a human too. I can be angry about some things too some times. But I didn't fire anybody on the spot for making them angry. I'm not claiming Sam's case is the same. But I do claim that just because you're fired, doesn't mean you're on the wrong. It seems like a cliche point to make that "you were fired thus it was your mistake". Things are just not that simple sometimes. You may be fired just because you pissed off somebody and he couldn't keep his feelings inside and powertripped without second thinking, like the board of directors did when they fired Sam without a proper discussion with all the individuals first and making sure it's the right decision.
- QuadrupleA 3y agoFrom Paul Graham's Twitter, three days ago: "No one in the world is better than Sam at dealing with this kind of situation." Jessica Livingston retweet: "The reason I was a founding donor to OpenAI in 2015 was not because I was interested in AI, but because I believed in Sam. So I hope the board can get its act together and bring Sam and Greg back." Also from a sibling comment: https://twitter.com/search?q=from:paulg%20since:2019-01-01%20sam&src=typed_query&f=live https://twitter.com/search?q=from:paulg%20since:2019-01-01%2... Seems incredibly respectful and supportive, I'm not buying that there's a lot of bad blood there.
- imjonse 3y agoPaul's tweet is an objective statement, it does not say anything about character or values and is not explicitly supportive.
- Dudester230602 3y agoReminds me of this (first one): https://www.muddycolors.com/2011/09/artistic-insults-from-famous-artists https://www.muddycolors.com/2011/09/artistic-insults-from-fa...
- ketzo 3y ago…you think calling someone “the best in the world” is a) purely factual b) not supportive Uh, what on earth would count as explicitly supportive language?
- nerbert 3y agoBeing the best in the world to deal with a situation is a neutral statement. Putin is the best in the world to deal with the situation he’s in right now, if you need a negative angle on this.
- loeg 3y ago> Putin is the best in the world to deal with the situation he’s in right now, if you need a negative angle on this. Probably not true? It seems like Russia could use another Yeltsin (or Gorbachev) more than Putin for its current situation.
- rantee 3y agoSomebody page Kanye to say something stupid so we can flush SA out of the news cycle already. Elon's just not up to par these days.
- fhub 3y agoShortly after it happened the rumor in SF was that Altman was distracted and not really dotting the i's and crossing the t's. Like they had a cash flow issue where they had to ask for a top up from investors which was a bit embarrassing. Anyway, just a rumor.
- 23B1 3y agoI for one am just totally shocked that a silicon valley executive would exhibit some sociopathic behaviors.
- mrkramer 3y agoWhy would Sam Altman be held as someone irreplaceable....the dude seems like a smart guy but c'mon he is not Jobs or Gates. I remember first time hearing him when he interviewed Zuck about Facebook and entrepreneurship (when he worked for Y Combinator). Now we talk about him as the next Gates or Jobs. I think this was one big marketing stunt from OpenAI, now the whole software and business community talks about them. Big boost in popularity and big downfall for Google when we talk about competing in AI. Sam's biggest mistake was that Worldcoin privacy nightmare but idk what was he thinking about, maybe it was noble idk.
- imjonse 3y agoHe probably has powerful connections beyond SV. He and Greg Brockman have been meeting heads of state and he has been fundraising in the Middle East recently. I wouldn't be surprised if he is sold as representing US interests, hence few dare to criticize him openly.
- bugglebeetle 3y agoYeah, it’s hilarious people think you just get to travel around the world and glad-hand heads of state without “friends” among the three-letter folks. And even more so when you’re doing it in the context of selling a technology with quite obvious intelligence service and military applications.
- mrkramer 3y ago>And even more so when you’re doing it in the context of selling a technology with quite obvious intelligence service and military applications. Wasn't Peter Thiel's Palantir meant to be something like military AI for governments to catch threats in the big data. Someone once said that data is the new oil and it's so true, just look at LLMs and OpenAI. That's why Google is held as the world's most powerful data company....not Facebook as a matter of fact.
- mrkramer 3y agoHe surely has connections in SV(he was even a Reddit CEO for a short time) but he has connections in the politics too as far as I can tell. He is representing US interests? Fine. OpenAI is an American company. This was one big marketing stunt, a balloon to see how the AI community would react. OpenAI is the innovator but the future AI innovations will happen somewhere else, that's what history of innovations teaches us. I remember when Elon said the Google is the biggest threat when it comes to AI, then he founded and funded OpenAI and now here we are.
- Geee 3y agoIt seems that there are a lot of people who are loyal to Sam because they are scared of crossing him. If this is really the pattern here, then this is probably not the timeline we want to be on.
- drtgh 3y agoI'm following the whole story to see if there's a sociopath involved.
- hn_throw_zx9259 3y ago[dead]
- brap 3y agoProbably most of them.
- davesque 3y agoEven if Graham supposedly booted Altman from Y Combinator, I don't see any reason to assume that a similar disagreement would have occurred in this case. Citing that history also seems to assume that Graham himself is an impeccable judge of character. And we don't necessarily have any reason to believe that. Seems to me like they're swinging at windmills with this narrative. Given that the board provided very few details about their reasoning, the ideological divide seems like the most likely explanation because it's the most nebulous by nature. Also likely given the climate of hype/doom surrounding ChatGPT.
- mattfrommars 3y agoI am not sure but Sam Altman is probably the next Steve Jobs. One of the greatest CEO of our generation.
- p_j_w 3y agoIt seems to me like the PR machine is doing its job pretty well.
- fredgrott 3y agoMy read not knowing PG and only having dealt with Sam once is that the firing was to push Sam into AI which he already was involved with before the firing...a GaryVee mercy firing to be sure... BTW, Sam was wrong about GPS-powered dating at Loopt. He was not wrong about pushing teleco's to free up GPS instead of hidding behind some wall of forbidden access.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago""Ninety plus percent of the employees of OpenAI are saying they would be willing to move to Microsoft because they feel Sam's been mistreated by a rogue board of directors," said Ron Conway, a prominent venture capitalist who became friendly with Altman shortly after he founded Loopt, a location-based social networking start-up, in 2005. "I've never seen this kind of loyalty anywhere."" Perhaps this looks like "loyalty" when viewed with the narrow mindset of Silicon Valley and so-called "tech" venture capitalism. But it also looks like disloyalty to OpenAI and its stated mission when viewed more broadly. "A former OpenAI employee, machine learning researcher Geoffrey Irving, who now works at competitor Google DeepMind, wrote that he was disinclined to support Altman after working for him for two years. "1. He was always nice to me. 2. He lied to me on various occasions 3. He was deceptive, manipulative, and worse to others, including my close friends (again, only nice to me, for reasons)," Irving posted Monday on X." One could see similarities with the way so-called "tech" companies treat computer users. It's no surprise people working for so-called "tech" companies are trying to hide behind labels such as "Effective Altruism". These are not altruistic people. They need a cover.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- npalli 3y agoLike many hotshot young entrepreneurs, it is possible Sam learnt a lot from the firing and has done a 180 to go on to supporting others (seen by his support from OpenAI rank-and-file). He probably needed that life lesson (getting fired) to grow.
- 7e 3y agoSounds like Sam Altman is a sociopath.
- bambax 3y ago> “Ninety plus percent of the employees of OpenAI are saying they would be willing to move to Microsoft because they feel Sam’s been mistreated by a rogue board of directors,” said Ron Conway (...) “I’ve never seen this kind of loyalty anywhere.” 95% is the kind of score one sees when there's an "election" in a dictatorship. Unanimity is often suspect.
- PeterStuer 3y agoI can't help but wonder how that "Ninety plus percent" would change in a convincingly anonymous voting process instead of a public social pressure with potential repercussions environment.
- gorbypark 3y agoWhile I'm sure that would change things too, I'd really be interested in the vote if the employees "PPU/shares" weren't a factor. In the end, if this ends up being a struggle between the OpenAI non-profit vs the for-profit, my money is on everyone mostly voted for their wallets.
- callalex 3y agoIf only the laborers could organize in order to perform such an election to determine their collective actions.
- GuB-42 3y agoYou can turn the number around and it becomes not as suspect: 5% of the employees support the "rogue board of directors". Say the next US election, you have Biden against Hitler. I would expect no less than 95% for Biden. Not everyone likes Biden, but most everyone hates Hitler.
- reissbaker 3y agoThe double-dipping charge doesn't seem particularly real — even pg still to this day personally invests in YC companies while they're in YC, even before Demo Day (e.g. Phind). I very much doubt he fired Sam for doing it too. It reads to me like Sam was focusing more on OpenAI (the "absenteeism" that the article mentions was primarily due "to his intense focus on OpenAI") and pg told him he couldn't do both. Somehow trying to tie that to the OpenAI board — which couldn't even come up with a concrete reason for firing him to their attempted CEO replacements, who both then switched sides to supporting Sam — seems like a stretch.
- lkbm 3y ago> Graham did not respond to a request for comment. Not said: "...but has consistently spoken in support of Sam Altman." This article is incredibly disingenuous. Almost to the level that I'd cancel my Washington Post subscription over if I hadn't already for similarly bad journalism.
- ilikehurdles 3y agoYou almost had me toward the end! WaPo has been an atrocious wreck lately and I’d be surprised at someone still subscribing to it while actually reading their content in anger. Hastily drumming up some palace intrigue puff piece like this has been their business model for years and I don’t see the appeal.
- andrewstuart 3y agoIs this actually true? Did Paul Graham fire Sam Altman? Is there factual information about this - has pg said anything?
- jgalt212 3y agoIt seems like many of Sam's sins are basically securities professionals know as Selling Away. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sellingaway.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sellingaway.asp
- throwitaway222 3y ago2015, so like 8 years ago. People do change. And there's two people here. Also, in general, when you have a CEO that's passionate, they tend to be bossy. If you don't have that, then you're just passing the time until the VC money is gone.
- gregwebs 3y agoTLDR there's a claim that Altman was among other things distracted by OpenAI by the end of his tenure at YC and PG flew back to SF to deal with the situation. It's possible that PG didn't fire him but instead continued to play the role of mentor and told him things weren't going as well as they had before and that his advise was to choose between OpenAI and YC.
- xkekjrktllss 3y ago>Graham did not respond to a request for comment.
- 11011001 3y ago[flagged]
- Obscurity4340 3y agoWhy wasn't or isn't D'Angelo toast? What is his value to anyone?
- urbandw311er 3y agoWe attach such a negative sentiment to the word “fired”. Sometimes a “firing” can be by mutual consent, or unavoidable and regrettable etc. It’s nuanced and doesn’t necessarily imply that the 2+ people involved don’t respect each other or can’t work together again in future.
- executesorder66 3y agoWhy would you choose to be fired instead of just resigning?
- Obscurity4340 3y agoHow do we know this isn't an Obama-McCain diamond heist type deal á la South Park? I think a lot of leaps are being made? How do we know he wasn't so much "fired" as "reassigned" or "differentially delegated"?
- projectileboy 3y agoThis is an interesting story and was worth reporting, but I don’t believe it changes the fact that Altman is uniquely qualified to lead OpenAI. I am, however, disappointed to see that an organization that at first espoused the ideal of careful, responsible development of AI seems to has decided to go full throttle no matter what. I’m very sad the board tried to exercise their authority in such an amateurish, hamfisted way. They overplayed their hand, and now we’ll all just have to hope that everyone at OpenAI chooses to keep ethical considerations in mind.
- tamarlikesdata 3y agoAnd then built the most powerful company in the world. Ok.
- ilsel 3y agoJust 2 cents. What about the undisclosed deal with OpeanAI and UAE ruling family? UAE was the first country to congratulate Taliban on taking back power in Afghanistan and to open embassy there. Both are based on sharia law, stoning, cutting off hands etc. Combine OpenAI gptvision tech with stealth screen surveillance and boom, you have automated extrajuridical sharia punishments based on screen activity and why not throw in security camera monitoring as well. Also check what sharia islam says about jewish people. Welcome to the dark ages, Sam. What good, good man you are to your people. The UAE man who owns the company that signed the deal with Sam himself is also orchestrator of Quatargate ie. bribing EU officials, that case is still ongoing and one can just expect it to expire. He controls a fund in worth of 1.5 trillion USD among long list of companies, mostly related to oil money. 2nd wife fleed to Europe then dissapeared etc. The ruling family and their wives are all close blood relatives. What is really going on? I got this info just before Bing Chat disabled my web search functionality and refused to discuss the topic any further. More biases than weights I would say.