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Nicotine (2016)
- roschdal 3y agoSmoking will give you cancer, and nicotine will make you addicted so you can never ever stop.
- goodluckchuck 3y agoThe article wasn’t talking about smoking, and nicotine is not addictive.
- Our_Benefactors 3y agoNicotine not addictive? That’s a bold claim.
- goodluckchuck 3y agoThe article cites some fairly convincing studies that the addictiveness is from tobacco’s other (non-nicotine) chemicals including MAOIs. Is smoking addictive? Absolutely, but not because it contains nicotine.
- bumby 3y agoThe articles seems much more inconclusive than your comment implies. On one hand, yes, they point out that MAOIs may be confounding. But they also say: “additional work since 2002 has clearly shown that nicotine alone does have some addictive properties” And, frustratingly, they point out that addiction effects can’t be parsed out using smokers because of the confounding effects of other chemicals present in tobacco yet they quote a study using smokers to support the non-addiction claim.
- Findecanor 3y agoIf nicotine wasn't addictive then kids who never used tobacco wouldn't get hooked on vape, which they do.
- financltravsty 3y agoΔFosB expression is lower from nicotine than it is caffeine.
- mort96 3y agoI'm not familiar with the biochemistry involved or what exactly "ΔFosB expression" means, and I don't know if the term "addiction" is used in its strictly technical definition here (i.e activating the reward circuit) or if it's used to generally mean some form of dependence... but it's worth noting that caffeine dependence is pretty common.
- mort96 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine > Nicotine is highly addictive. https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/tobacco-nicotine-e-cigarettes/nicotine-addictive https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/tobacco-n... > Is nicotine addictive? Yes. --- If nicotine wasn't addictive, why would people find that nicotine patches or nicotine gum helps with withdrawals from various tobacco products?
- goodluckchuck 3y agoAddiction is complex. Folks are generally addicted to a combination of things. For example they’ll do a particular drug, sit in a particular environment, with or without a social element, with or without food. Utilizing one of the elements without the others helps break the association. Its the same thing on a smaller level.
- mort96 3y agoYou're completely right! Addiction is complex! And nicotine is addictive.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tjpnz 3y agoFurthermore, why do people have withdrawal symptoms coming off the patches and gum?
- thecodedmessage 3y agoThese sources do not address the claims made in the article.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mort96 3y ago
- antiframe 3y agoI'll be your counter example. I'm no longer addicted.
- roschdal 3y agoLogical fallacy of insufficient sample size. Do you work for the tobacco industry?
- trident5000 3y agoNicotine is just terrible for you. Smoking is linked to alzheimers and I watched my grandfather smoke his pipe and decline cognitively with that disease. Im not sure if its only proven from the toxins in smoke or the nicotine but I would assume constricting the blood vessels (with nicotine) leads to plaque buildup in the body and brain. Because of the vessel constriction is stops healing in the body as well all the way to your bones dealing with microfractures and remodeling. That said, Ill have the occasional cigar.
- goodluckchuck 3y agoYou mean smoking is terrible for you. As the cited studies indicate, nicotine itself (delivered by patched / gum) is fairly harmless. Not completely risk free, but nothing at all like smoking.
- trident5000 3y agoNo, I mean nicotine as I clearly indicated in my comment. It's not harmless and its ridiculous to think a drug that constricts the vessels and blood flow in your body would be so.
- mijoharas 3y agoLike caffeine?
- otabdeveloper4 3y agoGood thing I don't drink coffee.
- trident5000 3y agoIs that a counterpoint? Pointing to something unrelated from the conversation. Maybe both arnt great for you?
- hatsix 3y ago
- iteygib 3y agoI use nicotine gum (2mg) to concentrate on reading or programming tasks from time to time. I have never smoked. I prefer it over caffeine as I do no get the irritable withdrawals. The only noticeable side affect I experience is some sleepiness after the effect wears off (around 30-40 minutes).
- 21eleven 3y agoI have the same experience, except I buy 4mg gum tablets and I chew 1/4 - 1/3 of a tab at time. 2mg and 4mg tabs are priced similarly.
- arcanemachiner 3y agoI am going to ignore this recommendation, despite my temptation. :/
- whoodle 3y agoI’ve done this too as someone diagnosed with a lot of daytime sleepiness. Any worry about longterm effects of nicotine? I’ve tried to find good studies online but most center around smoking, not the gum or pure nicotine.
- iteygib 3y agoI have been using it for about 3 years, perhaps at a max of twice per week. I started using it for the same reason as you, I had issues staying awake. I only drink coffee when absolutely needed as I get very irritable withdrawals when off it. I gave the gum a try after hearing about the use of it from a Hamilton Morris podcast. I personally have not felt any lingering affects outside of some drowsiness after wards. It seems like an easy enough habit to drop as well, as I have done so for a few months at a time for surgery recoveries. I am in agreement with the study linked in this article that nicotine by itself seems the same (for me, better) as similar stimulants like caffeine. I would never smoke however, as that seems to be the real issue.
- plexman 3y agoI think that the stimulant property is felt less if you are not used to nicotine. You would notice a lot more of the dizziness/light-headedness. But on the other side it could be just the fact that when you are hooked, you need it just to not feel the withdraw. As with some drugs this one can be used beneficially if well spaced (idk a full week, then 3m without it?). To me any use beyond this small period is just not efficient, performance wise. I used to smoke a pack a month, last year i discovered this pouches from a Swedish friend (he was talking about the under-average incidence of lung cancer there). I got hooked, and it was really bad to quit. Yes its not like its crack/heroine and ill go steal or stop showering, but i had sever trouble sleeping (of course i slept with them many times). The quit moment for me was when i started to double dose on the strongest ones, also my gums were sore and bled sometimes (if i could not buy my preferred brand i would buy minted, felt like a junkie going to crack on not finding whatever drug of preference)...
- egnehots 3y agoI'm concerned that many might miss the nuance and subtlety of the main issue: - Nicotine IS really addictive when distributed through common uses (smoking, vaping). Yes, if the absorption is progressive and in small dosages, the addiction is less severe, but this is not useful for smokers who want to quit and presents a dangerous introduction for others
- petesergeant 3y agoI used gum to come off vapes, and I still use gum. Over time, I’ve started to notice my tolerance is … decreasing? I’m now cutting a 2mg gum (lowest dose) in 4 with a pill cutter, and that’s about the right amount
- camgunz 3y ago100% correct. This article circulates every so often but it's basically just super dangerous. Recommend just looking at NIH [0] here. [0]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nicotine+site%3Awww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&t=ffab&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nicotine+site%3Awww.ncbi.nlm.nih.g...
- insanitybit 3y agoCould you provide something way more specific than a DDG search?
- camgunz 3y agoNo the thing I'm doing is burying this armchair gwern hogwash with tons of actual research that spans decades.
- insanitybit 3y agoI have zero interest in cigarettes though. So like, let's say I started chewing a gum and then I became addicted to the gum. I'm assuming the downside here would be primarily withdrawal effects of not chewing the gum? It's not like it's going to be a gateway to cigarettes for me. You'll experience caffeine withdrawal too, so I'm not sure that's really a problem. From the article, > There is little evidence from the NRT literature that ‘never-smokers’ like myself are all that likely to become highly addicted, That is to say, it does not seem to present a dangerous introduction for others, assuming you mean an introduction to cigarettes.
- djha-skin 3y ago[flagged]
- Almondsetat 3y agoPerhaps you should close your browser and go to the local library to discharge for a few years.
- pkoird 3y agoAlas, it's not always about what you care. It'd be way too useful to treat this platform as an exploratory tool, and enjoy contents of different variety as opposed to what you expect. This would help expand your horizons and add new dimensions to your knowledge.
- rimunroe 3y agoEven though I personally wouldn’t agree with them, I could understand why someone might think that nicotine or cannabis stuff isn’t relevant to this site, but how is Internet regulation stuff not?
- rimunroe 3y agoEspecially compared to this thing you submitted recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072433 I’m glad you shared that link here. It looks interesting, and fits with the general vibe in my opinion. I’d be interested to hear why that one is okay though and not any of the examples you listed
- pkoird 3y agoNicotine is a stimulant but weirdly enough, it has always improved my sleep (even when taken close to sleep). I never really understood why.
- johnwheeler 3y agoModafinil is a Dave Asprey bullshit lie. It does not promote nootropic benefits or flow work or anything like that. Pretty much anything Dave Asprey says is bullshit.
- idontwantthis 3y agoI wrote some terrible code on modafanil but I did write it for 6 hours straight.
- Exoristos 3y agoThat's called a work day.
- idontwantthis 3y agoBut I normally go to the bathroom and eat lunch during a work day.
- GordonS 3y agoThat hasn't been my experience of it. I use it only rarely, maybe once every 3-4 weeks when I'm feeling particularly fatigued but must deliver. I always find it really beneficial, and often find myself in a flow state - which, now in my 40s, happens very rarely these days.
- jtriangle 3y agoI've anecdotally found modafinil to be great for focus if I didn't sleep the night before, makes the day less miserable. Never tried it casually.
- geraldwhen 3y agoIt is, however, extremely useful to treat narcolepsy.
- coldblues 3y agoI have ADHD; getting Concerta here is near impossible, so I've been using Modafinil. It's been extremely effective.
- dijit 3y agoAfter being on IRC for the best part of two decades (and the fringe groups who frequent the medium) I have seen the word “nootropics” banded about. The first time, I thought it was a fun idea but nothing I wanted, see; my brain is all I have so I dont much fancy experimenting with it- this is also why I avoided alcohol and coffee despite social pressures. The community that formed went away as quickly as it had been created; various people began having psychological issues. The next time I heard about nootropics I passed along the information. “This time, will be different” the anonymous internet handle claimed. “We know more, we will not do anything dangerous”. Alas, the same fate befell them, and the community that formed quickly dissapated as they became incoherent even amongst each other. Prone to fits of paranoia and delusions of a grandiose conspiracy - which they were the only people who could see the truth. Later, on of my fellow IRC opers followed this path, I gave strict warning that it was hubris to believe himself smarter at drug use for brain optimisation than the scores of admittedly intelligent people who came before. He (much) later would become unhinged and fly cross continent to find me at my irl work location where he threatened my mother. He was incoherent most of the time and dropped out of university. So, forgive the hesitance, but I am even more hardened on the notion that we should probably not mess with our brains too much. I know some people must be pioneers to understand what works but I always took “YOLO” as a warning and not as a reason to throw caution to the wind. That said, I am a heavy user of caffeine in adulthood and I am more susceptible to pressure on drinking alcohol now. So I will admit to being hypocritical when it comes to the socially acceptable brain altering drugs. NB: Nicotine itself is addictive mostly because it has such a long half life, it stays in the body for multiple weeks; so if you decide to take this advice, make sure you wait at least a fortnight between doses.
- insanitybit 3y agoThat's definitely an anecdote, but I think the salient point is this: > So, forgive the hesitance, but I am even more hardened on the notion that we should probably not mess with our brains too much And that's true, insofar as we are able to agree on what "mess with our brains" and "too much" means. Is taking some choline "messing" with the brain? Definitely. Is it "too much?" well, perhaps you think so. Is drinking coffee "too much"? Apparently we both agree that it is not "too much", I'm drinking some caffeine right now. One thing about Choline and Caffeine is that they are very well studied, especially in terms of safety. The further you go into the nootropics world the less studied options you'll find - things range from "zero data" to "used for 1000s of years by an unscientific people" to "animal studies exist" and beyond. My personal "too much" is when there's a combination of weak evidence to support benefits and weak evidence to support safety in humans.
- adamsb6 3y agoRelevant auto tune the news: https://youtu.be/1dqTrUpmwPg https://youtu.be/1dqTrUpmwPg
- mpreda 3y agoI'm a non smoker, I never smoked. Once I decided to try a nicotine chewing gum, took one pillow and chewed it thoroughly. After about 5-10minutes I suffered some very very severe effects, including: I started sweating extremelly such that all my clothes become wet quickly and sweat was dripping down my nose, ears, and into my eyes. I felt an intense and urgent need to urinate and defecate, which luckily I could do on the spot (happened to be in the proximity of a public toilet). I think after about 30minutes the simptoms subsided. I subjectivelly imagined that I ran the risk of a heart attack there. So, I'd like to warn any non-smoker that may want to try out nicotine: please start with a very small dose, and only gradually build up; because otherwise it can be dangerous.
- thebigspacefuck 3y agoYou’re supposed to chew it only until it tastes peppery then park it in your gum/cheek
- sieste 3y agoThanks for the PSA. One would think a 10,000 word article on the benefits of non-smoking nicotine use, with a dedicated section on health issues, might mention this important detail...
- thebigspacefuck 3y agoInstructions are usually on the box, but you’re right, no mention of nicotine overdose which is quite unpleasant and easily negates any productivity benefits if experienced.
- reactordev 3y agoWelcome to nicotine poisoning. You are only supposed to chew until you get flavor, then suck on it like you would spitting tobacco except not spitting. When you get a craving, you chew a few more times. The symptoms you describe are classic nicotine poisoning symptoms. Sweats, expulsions of fluids, rapid heart rate, disorientation.
- dist-epoch 3y agoIn sports there are two "legal" performance enhancing doping substances: caffeine and nicotine
- reactordev 3y ago>”…and is addictive to some degree” I stopped reading after this part. I’m sorry, but passing off decades of research as “to some degree” when it’s been found to be as addictive as heroin. [0] So it’s completely asinine to say “to some degree”. By all means, go chew some nicotine gum, you’ll be wanting more in an hour. Next thing you know you’re eating a pack a day, for 30 years, until your arteries hardened and you block your heart. All for a pick me up in the evening. Take a nap. [0] https://www.ucsfhealth.org/conditions/nicotine-dependence https://www.ucsfhealth.org/conditions/nicotine-dependence
- thebigspacefuck 3y agoYou really should have kept reading because this is addressed
- reactordev 3y agoAnd dismissed over and over again. The author is playing with cyanide and doesn’t even understand that.
- thw09j9m 3y agoTobacco is addictive, nicotine alone without MAOIs is not nearly as addictive.
- sfeng 3y agoIt would probably be useful to actually read before you comment. He meticulously cites the sources of his claims with actual studies.
- reactordev 3y ago>”…My take away is that there is addiction but it’s drastically overestimated” It goes on and on. The author is ignorant.
- jdorfman 3y agoI was always fascinated by cigarettes and stole one when I was 10 and that was where my journey of addition to nicotine began. I now vape everyday and chew 2mg of gum if I’m on a plane or some other situation. I’ve tried to quit multiple times but I’m weak. I can go a few months but always get pulled back. IMO there are no benefits. If you never had nicotine and this link made you curious don’t. You will most likely become a life long user to one of the most addictive chemicals known to man.
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoIt really seems to vary by person, perhaps genetic. In university I used to bum cigarettes off people all the time and have one here and there, esp back when you could smoke at the club, at a rave, etc. before bylaws. I'd even buy a pack of cigarettes here and there, and then just...forget about them and never finish them. Sometimes I'd have a bit of a craving for two or three days after and just power through it, and that was that. In the summer I'll smoke some pipe tobacco, and every few years smoke a cigar. Don't really crave after. Before my older sister was born my father was a heavy smoker. When my mom got pregnant, he just quit, and that was that, never ever showed any interest in smoking again. But then I've seen the very brutal suffering that I saw friends go through trying to quite their smoking habit. Just awful. All said, I don't think nicotine is a wise thing to mess with. Vaping especially to me seems like a slippery slope because it kind of gives the vibe of a kind of "consequence-less" interaction with the drug. If you smoke a pipe or cigar, you stink, you might get a headache, and it actually costs quite a bit of $$. Vaping is set up to seem like this casual entertainment with few consequences. I'm glad my teens have so far ridiculed it and shown no interest.
- jdorfman 3y agoYou are absolutely correct. Most of my friends were able to quit while some are in the same situation as me. All I’m saying is don’t take the risk.
- thebigspacefuck 3y agoWhy do you get pulled back if there are no benefits?
- dan_man 3y agoQuoting one of the reply [0] from the linked thread in the OP: Nicotine is considered one of the most (if not THE most) physically and psychologically addictive substances in the entire world. Prior to introducing nicotine into your body, there is no compulsion for your body want/need it. However, as SOON as you introduce it for the first time, it gives birth to a "little monster" of need within you. This monster will remain within you until the day you die. Sure, eventually you can starve this "little monster" down into a tiny little husk, so that it no longer has any effect on you, but there's always going to be that slight twinge... That slight trickle in the back of your mind that something's missing. I feel that once you go down the road of nicotine you'll forever regret it. However, if you have been a smoker I guess it's alright to try but, Another interesting thing I found in the same thread is the Moderator's note [1]: The study below demonstrates that nicotine, regardless of administration method causes Smoker's Melanosis, and it is likely that by extension, whether specifically demonstrated or not, this action will accelerate the visible signs of skin aging by a similar uneven discoloration and an increase in the number of moles which smokers and their families get. The long-term effect of nicotine on the oral mucosa [2]. So, it's still not safe completely. I have been a smoker and I quit long ago but after reading the article I'd still stick with the good ol' coffee! 0: https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23915-nicotine-patch-for-focus-a-log/?view=findpost&p=388621 https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23915-nicotine-patch-f... 1: https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23915-nicotine-patch-for-focus-a-log/?view=findpost&p=258639 https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23915-nicotine-patch-f... 2: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10605870 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10605870
- binary132 3y agoI used to smoke cigarettes fairly frequently (about 1-2 a day perhaps 10-15 years ago) and have never experienced this. Every now and then, perhaps every few months, I think it might be pleasant to get into pipe tobacco, try snuff or snus, or enjoy a cigar. I can categorically say that I experience nothing I would remotely categorize as regret or craving whatsoever.
- Clubber 3y agoDid you inhale? Once I learned how to inhale I got hooked pretty quick. I do know people who can put them down whenever they want, but I wasn't one of them. The one good thing I got out of it was knowing what addiction felt like. I'm sure it kept me from getting addicted to more dangerous things when I was younger.
- bartwr 3y agoI used to be a daily smoker for over 2y and a casual/social smoker for close to a decade. Since moving to US, for the last decade, I don't smoke as "nobody" smokes here (compared to Europe). I smoke now 1-2 cigarettes a year, mostly when visiting Europe and with smoker friends. (I never got addicted and never had any problem quiting cold turkey; I smoked because it was great social relationship builder - some of my best friends are people met on cigarette breaks). Sometimes I use nicotine gums / patches as a dieting aid (effective appetite suppressant). And I want to warn against this premise of short half life. This is not true in general. There are active metabolites like cotinine with elimination half life of 20h+, depending on your liver enzymes, gender, ethnicity. If I chew a nicotine gum around noon, I have trouble sleeping the whole following night with my brain unable to calm down, mild jaw clenching etc. So yes, moldafinil is a terrible stimulant due to too long half life, but so is nicotine (for many). I definitely don't recommend for that purpose. Maybe for extreme (crash) dieting, but this is unhealthy in general.
- imsurgio 3y agoI am a smoker. I wouldn't advise this. Before you get any stimulant effects. Which are minimal. You get very sick at first. By the time you have enough tolerance you are addicted physically. Some can quit easy but it can be a slippery slope. It's too risky as you don't know how hard it is to quit for you in advance. I've tried off and on to quit for 20 years at least. Don't do it, it's a lot of work to get past the sickness. If I weren't young and ignorant, I'd have never started.
- Clubber 3y agoI started smoking at 12 and got completely hooked in a week. I also tried several times to quit. I quit for 3 months TWICE and started back up. I finally got off cigarettes with Juul. I also don't recommend nicotine. You'll likely be a customer for life.
- antiframe 3y agoI once read a book called 'The Easy Way to Stop Smoking' and, as advertised, after finishing it I haven't had a cigarette or craving since. It was literally like magic and it's worked for two of my friends as well.
- joshjob42 3y agoI occasionally use a 2mg piece of nicotine gum as a pick me up if I've already had too much caffeine or if it's late at night (or if I'm at a conference where I'm getting little sleep), and I certainly feel the stimulant effect and nothing else. Never had any sort of tolerance, never felt any draw to take it except in the sense of "Boy I'm really dragging, I need a stimulant. Should I get coffee or a piece of gum?". Most weeks I use none, some conferences I've used 2 pieces a day every day for 4-5 days straight. No problems stopping afterward.
- brbrodude 3y agoFellow nic addict of 18 years here. If you haven't yet I'd recommend trying out Tabex. I'm still addicted but was able to cut it off by like 85% this year with its aid.
- Joel_Mckay 3y agoThe nicotine chemical is a natural pesticide manufactured by several species of tobacco plants, and in trace amounts within some peppers. It is approximately 35 times more addictive than Heroin, and has an LD50 so lethal the contents of a few packs/mg of smokes would kill most adult users if they took it all at once. Due to the intended role in nature, humans also use the compound for its mutagenic properties, and increased lethality in insecticides. People are foolish, and addicts are experts at rationalizing self-destructive coping methods. Smoking/Vaping is primarily considered a disgusting habit in many western culture now, but is still plaguing the poor of many countries. Get angry, quit cold turkey, and stay angry for 3 months... Then tell others to switch to rage-o-hol if they don't want skin like a dried out pear later in life. I am sure people that generate 94% well structured LLM nonsense... also assume the side effects on their sites reputations will be negligible. The content makes it sound like a psychopath wrote it by the way. lol Keep well our there, =)
- donatj 3y agoI agree very much with the addiction aspect being genetic. My mother has tried to quit cigarettes umpteen times and never been successful. Smokes multiple packs a day. My dad has smoked here and there my whole life but mostly in the summer. He'll go all 6 months of winter (Minnesota) without smoking not wanting to be in the cold and not wanting to smoke in the house. He never "needs" a smoke, unlike my mother. It's always "oh a smoke would be nice on this beautiful night". I like to smoke a tobacco pipe and do so about 6-10 times a year. I think I got my dad's side of it
- tommychillfiger 3y agoA factor that I've slowly started to think is potentially very relevant is age of first habit formation. Not just a puff here or there, but the age at which you were first addicted. Extremely anecdotally, I have asked people and noticed that all of my friends who can't quit started much younger in their formative years than the types who can smoke a few when drinking every now and again but otherwise abstain with no issue.
- fordholes 3y agoNot sure re: genetics but I’ll say: I love smoking a cigarette, but I’ve never had problems not smoking for any length of time at all. The same is not true for me with respect to alcohol, so it’s not like I’m especially immune to addiction. I just think specifically with smokes it’s not as simple as “everyone addicted always”. Which I’ve heard claimed.
- stevehawk 3y agoauthor shrugged this off pretty easily but nicotine is a vasoconstrictor which is an issue when combined with it being addictive. that's a problem if you ever have certain types surgery due to wound healing and lack of blood flow. There's more than a few people that effed their plastic surgery results because they immediately went back to nicotine. (note: not all plastics are necessarily volunteer, such as after certain cancer/tumor/melanoma removals).
- potatopatch 3y agoAlcohol and caffeine are also vasoconstrictors in high usage one would associate with addiction (they seem to have a lot of paradoxical effects depending on dosage/habit). If the theory that nicotine alone is not as addictive as smoking is correct I'm not sure the concern makes more sense than concern over other common addictions.
- octatrack 3y agoI used to be a smoker, for a good decade. Then, switched to vaping for 3-4 years, which allowed me to taper down my nicotine use and quit completely. This was about 5 years ago. Recently, I’ve started using nicotine gum to increase focus while working. I usually use 1 mg, maximum 4 times a day. I typically begin taking it in the afternoon, my morning work sessions are usually nicotine-free. I have been using it on most days for about 3 months. I have zero desire to smoke or vape. On days when I am not taking it, I don’t have a strong craving for the gum. I’ve also quit caffeine a few days ago, with the intention to not use it for at least 3 months. I find that even low amounts of tea increases my anxiety to the point that it becomes difficult to focus. I’ve been very productive since I stopped caffeine. Mild withdrawal effects in the form of physical tiredness, but I am fine with the tradeoff for less anxiety. I might have developed some level of physical dependency to nicotine, I’ll see it once I’ll do an extended break. For now, it’s the only dopamine-increasing substance I consume, and I’m fine with it.
- huytersd 3y agoYou have zero desire to smoke or vape now but the usual way is you end up having a strong craving for your preferred mode of delivery (gum in your case) when it’s not available and then attempt another one to tide you through till your order gets here. Now you have two modes of delivery.
- octatrack 3y agoI am committed to not smoking or vaping, no matter what. So far, I haven’t experienced any strong cravings for the gum when not taking it for a day or two. When I decide to stop in about a couple months, I will power through with discipline.
- huytersd 3y agoEasy to say. I have excellent discipline in most areas of my life but nicotine is a hard one. Doesn’t help that I don’t want to quit either because the actual health risks seem minimal (I vape, flavorless, lab grade)
- pasquinelli 3y agoi wonder why the author needs stimulants so much.
- ThrowAway1922A 3y agoWhy not? Stimulants are the best thing known to man. There's a reason people enjoy them so much.
- GaryNumanVevo 3y agoStimulant abuse is pretty accepted in the US. Unless it's meth, which has a negative class connotation.
- draw_down 3y ago[dead]
- m3047 3y agoNicotine improves rote memorization and learning on repetitive tasks. Nicotine will teach you to be a really really good smoker unless you overlay some other ritual and modulate your ingestion mechanics.
- zingababba 3y agoSnus is one of life's greatest pleasures.
- ThrowAway1922A 3y agoIt is without a doubt. It's baffling to me that people smoke when things like snus exist. Far, far safer than smoking, much cleaner, and it doesn't impact those around you. Nicotine is a great drug that the world largely insists of using an awful delivery method for.
- thebigspacefuck 3y agoI started smoking in high school and got turned onto dip by someone I ran cross country with that was on the wrestling team (very common for them to use for weight loss). The dip was really intense and I got a huge buzz from it, but after taking some magic mushrooms around my age 16 I tried to quit it all at once and really thought I was going insane. It was an incredibly potent nootropic though and was easy to hide for taking tests. I felt incredible taking the ACT. I switched back to smoking most of the time because most people think dip is disgusting, but eventually I tired of going outside in the cold and having to the fund the addiction, so I quit. It really wasn’t all that hard in the grand scheme of things, but took a couple of tries. It’s not something you want to undertake without planning or research and you are going to gain some weight and be out of it for a couple weeks. Years later I’d miss it and get back into the occasional cig or e-cigs or nicotine lozenges. Any time I did though they eventually just make me kind of lazy to where I just want to lay around and I realized I was better off going for walks or exercising. I don’t think it’s so bad to quit but it can mess up your stomach and you might lose a night of sleep so it’s not the funnest thing in the world. The last time I did this it was at night, I had an interview the next morning, and my stomach hurt from constipation so I gave up and put in a lozenge for a minute which unstopped me, but then couldn’t sleep due to the stimulation, had a horrible interview the next day and then went through with quitting. If you can find the right dose/form then it really does have a boost to your brain, but my experience with this sort of thing is sort of like putting NOS in your fuel, it doesn’t matter if you can accelerate fast most of the time, because most of life is about driving safely and consistently at a steady speed and sometimes you can get ahead by speeding up and going through a yellow light to avoid a red, which the NOS can help with but usually burning NOS all the time is just an unnecessary expense. And you don’t want to have something like nicotine withdrawals slowing you down when you’re hitting a yellow like my interview which was a disaster. Having quit amphetamines, coffee, and nicotine multiple times, it’s not that bad, but it’s still a hassle and there’s never a good time and you’re better off eliminating as many hassles as you can from your life imo. I definitely think the more addictive than heroin line is likely not accurate for nicotine itself but I’ve never been addicted to heroin so idk. I actually still think about starting it up again sometimes even though it’s been 15 years since I quit, maybe 3 since my last lozenge, but overall this experiment for me is concluded and nicotine is something I’m better off living without.
- GaryNumanVevo 3y agoReminds me of the guy in my high school class that got addicted to nicotine patches and had to be hospitalized after he poisoned himself accidentally...
- aappleby 3y agoAnecdata of one here- Non-smoker, originally tried nicotine vapes as an alternative to caffeine which I tend to overuse. Not very effective for me as I seem to have a paradoxical reaction to it that makes me want to take a nap for 5-10 minutes after inhaling, but I found the sensation was pleasurable when combined with cannabis edibles so I kept the vape around. Absolutely zero physical addiction. I can and have stopped using the vape cold turkey for weeks or months at a time and I felt no withdrawal at all. At the present moment I haven't used it in months.
- waveBidder 3y agoapparently stimulants behaving like depressants is something that may be associated with ADHD, so you may want to visit a psychiatrist.
- hirvi74 3y agoI believe that is more dose dependent than ADHD dependent. I would imagine if you gave someone with ADHD enough stimulants, then that reaction would reverse. People commonly believe that stimulants affect people with ADHD differently than non-ADHD people, but I have never seen any research to back that up. It's merely just anecdotes, and I honestly think stimulants, like anything, just affect people differently regardless of ADHD or not. If anyone has data either way, I would love to see it.
- waveBidder 3y agoLooks like the paradoxical effect Wikipedia page is more ambiguous about this than I had thought. the data there is pretty sparse there either way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxical_reaction?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxical_reaction?wprov=sfl...
- credit_guy 3y agoI tried nicotine patches (lifelong non-smoker). I didn't see any benefit. I was hoping I can focus more on some boring stuff I needed to get done against a deadline. I just didn't see anything. I then disclosed that I used nicotine products when I applied for some life insurance. They wanted to put me in the smoker category, I had to spend time with them to explain I never smoked in my life, and the nicotine patches were not for smoking cessation, but just to improve focus.
- fwungy 3y agoI've used 2mg nicotine gum as a mental clarity aid for years. It's cheap, effective, and harmless AFAIK. I have stopped using it for months at a time and never has any withdrawal symptoms. Caffeine otoh is addictive for me and will cause withdrawal symptoms if I indulge too often. The caffeine buzz can make me jittery and increase ADHD type behaviors for me. Ymmv.
- namanyayg 3y agoHow long does the effect last? I started taking caffeine pills before working out (a ~100mg dose) and it works really well, I wonder if I should try out nicotine gum too
- fwungy 3y agoNicotine gum just gets me on track. No buzz really, I just get more directed, keep my eye on the prize better. I don't do it everyday and I take breaks. It all comes very organically, I don't have to plan it.
- qingcharles 3y agoFor me it is just like a more concentrated caffeine dose. I had no noticeable addiction whatsoever, and I was hyperaware of the risk from the all the press over smoking addiction. Amazon usually has some really great offers on nicotine gum if you drill through their site long enough.
- GordonS 3y agoYou say it's harmless, but are there any negative health effects? (I seem to recall reading nicotine can cause thinning of the arteries, or something like that)
- fwungy 3y agoI've heard there are but haven't noticed anything personally. Nicotine has antifungal and antimicrobial attributes. I have even seen studies claiming smokers were less likely to get serious covid infections likely due to some property of nicotine. Native Americans treated tobacco as a sacred plant and praised it for all sorts of health and spiritual properties. That makes me think the plant and its consumption is probably a net benefit and it may be the way commercial cigarettes and tobacco are processed that cause the problems.
- standardUser 3y agoThe addictive properties of nicotine aren't magic. It requires sustained, repeated consumption, like any physically addicting substances. And research has shown that different people have different propensities for addiction (same with cocaine and alcohol). But if you do become addicted to nicotine, and are one of the people with a high propensity for nicotine addiction, you're fucked. It's one of the most challenging addictions to quit, as we all know. Is this a risk you want to take for some mild stimulation? As a former smoker, I can only believe that anyone who takes this risk does not fully appreciate the consequences. The exception might be people who have consumed nicotine on and off but have never had addictive tendencies. Those people definitely exist, but it still seems like a risky thing to assume about yourself since being wrong could be life altering. I also take exception to the articles emphasis that moving on to cigarettes is the only real risk. Yes, that's where the majority of the health problems come from. But don't underestimate the negative consequences of a physical addiction, even one that does not lead to health problems. It is not fun to be addicted to anything that contorts your body and mind outside of your control.
- throwbadubadu 3y agoAs a former smoker I think you didn't fully read the article und understood author's and other's thesis that it is actually not the nicotine that makes for the strong cigarette addiction.
- standardUser 3y agoThere is no such thing as a cigarette addiction. Nicotine is the addictive chemical in cigarettes. Yes, method of consumption matters, but if you regularly consume an addictive chemical you are at risk to develop an addiction to that chemical, regardless of method (though not necessarily regardless of quantity).
- nrclark 3y agoYou might be overlooking a chemical conditioning element. A smoker gets a dopamine hit every time they take a pull from their cigarette. The smell, the sizzle, and the routine - all become associated with a reward pathway. Nicotine is the chemical that causes this, but the addiction is far more than just nicotine alone.
- 01100011 3y agoI've smoked on and off over the years, starting at 12. I never developed an addiction so I guess I'm lucky. I really enjoy smoking a pipe, but generally don't because of the health risks and the difficulty finding a place to comfortably smoke as a renter of a non-smoking apartment. Lately though I've been vaping 0-4x/day to help me focus and get mental energy. I also occasionally use half-doses of modafinil and notice the two work well together. The biggest downside of vaping for me is that I feel a little more agitated and depressed the next day or so. I guess this is what might normally feed the addictive cycle for others, but with type-2 bipolar depression it's a feeling I'm familiar with and I just ride it out vs trying to eliminate the feeling with more nicotine.
- sotix 3y agoIs there any research into nicotine’s role in assisting those with ADHD? It’s a stimulant as the article points out, which many ADHD medications are as well of course. I’m curious if nicotine was (perhaps unintentionally) used in the 20th century to help those with ADHD stay focused on tasks and if an increase of diagnosed ADHD cases in the 21st century stems from its declined use or if it’s entirely due to other factors such as generally being diagnosed to a greater degree.
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- brbrodude 3y agoYou can find some things online on a thesis that some nicotine addicts could be self-medicating indeed.
- VHRanger 3y agoDr. Russell Barkley has research on the topic if I'm not wrong. He says it's effective as a treatment for ADHD, but less than traditional stimulants, more prone to addiction and side effects. Also, despite the rest of the discussion in this thread, nicotine ITSELF is carcinogenic, regardless of the way it's ingested. Not something you want to take long run recurrently.
- briHass 3y ago> nicotine ITSELF is carcinogenic That has never been proven conclusively, even with hundreds of studies attempting to do so. At best (if one wants to assume it is a carcinogen), there's some plausible mechanisms where the contaminants/metabolites of nicotine (like NNN) can cause cancer, but there's zero evidence that consuming nicotine in a pure form and without pyrolysis (i.e. not e-cigs) causes cancer. Heart disease is much more plausible: nicotine can raise blood pressure, narrow arteries, and increase pulse, like many other stimulants. Whether it has uniquely dangerous CVD risks compared to other stims is also far from conclusive.
- bjw4 3y agoI've been addicted to Nicotine lozenges for nearly 10 years now, and have tried to stop multiple times over the past 2. The withdrawal effects are horrific, and I'm pretty much unable to function for a week and have brain fog for a further 3 weeks. Does anyone know if there is something that would counteract the withdrawal effects? My doctor unfortunately just keeps handing me stop smoking leaflets.
- whalesalad 3y agoSwedish snus is my preferred delivery mechanism.
- hiAndrewQuinn 3y agoI occasionally suck on a 2mg nicotine lozenge when doing activities I want to encourage (Anki, low intensity stationary biking). Seems to work well for habit formation for me, and I never really feel the urge to use them outside of those contexts.
- hirvi74 3y agoAfter reading Gwern's writings on nicotine some years back, I did a bit of research myself. I can't recall where I read this, but I did come across some anecdotal datum about a person using nicotine to help them workout. However, that person was quite strict about their usage. He or she would only using nicotine when working out but never any other time. The reasoning was that nicotine helps in habit formation while active in one's system. So, hopefully the brain would crave working out because it would associate the reward of nicotine with working out. I do not know how it turned out, but I thought that was an interesting idea. What if nicotine could be used to aid in forming healthy habits, and once the habits are established, nicotine could be weened out? Do you think nicotine has any kind of similar effects for you?
- hiAndrewQuinn 3y agoThat might well have been me if it was in the last year or so. That's basically what I use it for, yes.
- bijant 3y agoNicotine has notable antipsychotic properties. I'm not aware of any longer term studies on the isolated side effects of nicotine. Longterm effects of anti-psychotics range from bad to terrible. Nicotine (if the mode of consumption is not smoking) is likely the anti-psychotic with the most beneficial side effect profile. Still I wonder whether there are significant cognitive or emotional effects of long time usage.