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Cities Skylines 2 runs with 20fps on an Nvidia RTX4090
- 19h 3y agoCan't confirm this at all with my 4090 and i9-13900KF. Even with highest settings on Windows 11 23H2 (25977) with GeForce 545.92, I get 30 FPS -- the stuttering started only when my city reached a population of around 80k. (Display is a LG 4K HDR 32", connected via DisplayPort.)
- kevinventullo 3y agoLooking forward to picking this up in March 2024.
- hotstickyballs 3y agoI didn’t see any mention of cpu used on the article. I’m guessing that might be important.
- belinder 3y agoI think the CPU will play more of a part when there is a lot to simulate. But in the article they said this was on an empty map
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mrob 3y agoThere are CPU/GPU meters on the screenshots. Highest CPU load I saw is 78% on one core and lower on other cores, but GPU is always 100% or close to it.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- apocalyptic0n3 3y agoI'm getting ~60fps on my 4090 at 1440p. Haven't had any framerate issues. My GPU has been pinned at 100% and my temps are sky high, but the game is smooth. They definitely need to fix this, but it's not as dire for everyone as it's being made out to be.
- transcriptase 3y agoConsidering the game only runs adequately for you on… the best video card for gaming that money can buy… You can see why the 99% of customers who have much less powerful hardware might consider the situation dire.
- dekhn 3y agoThe entire history of video cards has been "games that were hard on graphics cards"... leading to... a new generation of graphics cards that run the game with ease... leading to... a new generation of games. It's an ongoing battle.
- transcriptase 3y agoThere are games that are hard on graphics cards. Then there are okay-looking city building games that pin the best GPU that exists at 100% usage at 1440. A card that’s meant for playing AAA games at 4K Ultra. Maybe a dev accidentally bundled a crypto miner they were running on company hardware after hours?
- johnnyanmac 3y agomaking a comparison to a AAA game at 4k ultra is exactly why the simulation genre is niche and doesn't bother to appeal to that audience anymore. People underestimate how much of AAA development is agressively culling out behaviors and minimizing calculations for things that aren't (or aren't likely) to be on screen, and for a simulation you can't do this. But people don't value what they don't see.
- piperswe 3y agoI'm running 4K, 30fps on a 4080 on medium settings (with a decent size city). It's not good performance, but it's plenty for a city builder.
- razodactyl 3y agoWhat CPU? I have 3080 Ti and am running 60fps at max settings. Disable Depth of Field.
- nottorp 3y ago20 fps, 60 fps, whatever When was the last time you could enjoy a 4x or city builder on a laptop, with integrated graphics, on battery?
- test77777 3y agoYeah it’s been proven nobody can actually see the difference in anything over -25 frames.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- methodical 3y agoIgnoring all of the scientific evidence otherwise, there is not a chance you're actually parroting this nonsense without actually noticing a rather substantial difference when viewing something (say a movie) at 30fps versus 60+fps. It's literally night and day. Me and a few coworkers noticed the difference between 60 and 120 when upgrading phones recently, and that difference is much more nuanced than the difference between 30 and 60.
- test77777 3y agoWhy are you calling me stupid then just pointing to a story of you and your friends. WTF THE FUCK MODERATORS DO SOMETHING.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoI can't see the difference between anything above 20 FPS or so.
- goatking 3y agoThere is a HUGE difference between 30fps and 60fps games. Very noticable. I got used to 60fps so much, that I don't even touch 30fps anymore. It's true that your eyes(or brain?) can get used to the 30fps after some time. But if you compare them side by side...
- 3y ago
- elil17 3y agoI feel like this is not only a massive technical mess-up but also belies a deep misunderstanding of their customers. Most C:S fans were more excited for a more realistic traffic AI and mixed use zoning. Yet this experience was made unplayable by an attempt to make it look prettier.
- sp332 3y agoWhy would someone crank all the settings up and then complain that it runs slowly? Just put the settings where you want them.
- nickthegreek 3y agoBecause they spent $2k on the GPU alone to do such things.
- sp332 3y agoThe cards have a certain level of performance. They can change the settings of the game to match what they bought. If they have a $2,000 card, it's going to look good.
- raydev 3y ago> If they have a $2,000 card, it's going to look good. But it doesn't look good on the $2000 cards. That's a big problem.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoIt does in fact look good on my $1000 card (not even $2000).
- legitster 3y agoI mean, how playable is the game on minimum graphics settings? As you said, I don't care if the game is prettier.
- _flux 3y agoThe site timeouts on me :/. One guy at Reddit noticed with the nvidia nsight that apparently the cims are drawn without regard to level of detail: https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17gfq13/the_game_does_render_individual_teeth_with_no_lod/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17gfq13/the... Vehicles are handled properly, though. If the analysis is correct (among some other points risen regarding shadows), then it seem rather a big oversight with fortunately some easy fixes.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mvdtnz 3y agoThis is armchair game developer sleuthing and I don't buy it for a dollar. Mainly because performance issues with this game occur even on an empty map. There is absolutely no way the game is rendering 10,000+ characters at that level of detail. You'll be wise to ignore Redditors when they claim to be making some kind of breakthrough that eluded professional game developers over years of development.
- _flux 3y agoTurns out there was no LOD for cims (among some other assets?) as per comment from Paradox: https://www.videogamer.com/news/cities-skylines-2-teeth-performance-issues/ https://www.videogamer.com/news/cities-skylines-2-teeth-perf... > “Citizen lifepath feature does not tie to citizen geometry and does not affect the performance figures of the characters. We know the characters require further work, as they are currently missing their LODs which affect some parts of performance. We are working on bringing these to the game along general LODs improvements across all game assets. Characters feature a lot of details that, while seemingly unnecessary now, will become relevant in the future of the project.“ So I guess sometimes these things can elude professional game developers over years of development.
- tyree731 3y agoExcept if it's this article - https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/ https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times...
- Aurornis 3y agoI checked the IGN review for comparison. IGN reviewer also has an RTX 4090 but plays with a lower 1440p resolution: > I have a 13900k, 64GB of RAM, and a RTX 4090, playing on a 1440p ultrawide monitor. I got 35fps at the main menu and in game on a brand new map w/o building a single thing. Turning off motion blur and depth field increased this from 35 to 50fps. Not a single other graphics setting changed the performance at all. I turned off every single setting I could or set it to the lowest possible, and still only got 50fps. How can a game even get to this point? Everyone in the development process must have noticed that it was running poorly. Even if all the developers had the most expensive consumer GPU available, they still would have seen poor performance.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago> Turning off motion blur and depth field increased this from 35 to 50fps Whats more, such simple postprocessing filters should not tank FPS so dramatically, even with a severe CPU bottleneck. That alone is not just unoptimized, its a severe bug.
- mvdtnz 3y agoAnd even if such filters are somehow so intensive, they should be turned off by default. I am playing Cities Skylines 2 and there is so much unnecessary eye candy that is turned on even with a mid-range graphics card. The game runs fine for me at 1440p when I turn off the really intensive post processing.
- fourteenfour 3y agoThey screwed up the defaults. When I first loaded it was set to a resolution with a 24Hz refresh rate. Also the game looks bad with the default SMAA, it looks great if you change the advanced graphics settings to use TAA. I'm on a 3080 at 4K and after fiddling with settings it looks wonderful and is very playable. Unbelievable that they hosed the first impressions so much.
- 3y ago
- jakogut 3y agoHugged to death?
- ssharp 3y ago"The agony and the irony are killing me"
- legitster 3y agoHow is there no mention of CPU? Simulators, especially ones of this size, are usually much more CPU intensive than GPU intensive. So a lot of reviews are obsessive about how beefy their GPU card is, but I suspect a lot of people have "top-heavy" rigs. I play a lot of simulator games. Most of them are not paragons of optimization (well, except maybe Factorio). But these are not action games so FPS is not really something I personally optimize for and I don't necessarily understand the importance of benchmarking it against, like, Cyberpunk. I wouldn't be surprised if Paragon's optimization fix will be just to nerf the depth-of-field.
- Der_Einzige 3y agoRimworld, especially after running RimPy and converting textures for GPU, is extremely fast/well optimized even with hundreds of mods.
- coffeebeqn 3y agoSure it uses CPU but desktop CPUs that gamers use are beasts. Even if it’s a few years old mid level CPU it’s better than any console or mobile device by a long shot. They have dedicated tower or liquid coolers so they can push a lot of power into the chips
- dharmab 3y agoWith sim games it's not purely about clock speed or TDP. The previous generation 5800X3D outperformed the newest chips in simulation games for a while thanks to it's very large cache.
- thesnide 3y agoI'm wondering about any abuse of GPU for non GFX tasks in recent games.
- ElectricalUnion 3y agoIf it has embarrassingly parallel tasks that it can dispatch to a massively parallel subsystem dedicated to solving embarrassingly parallel tasks, is that abuse or smart use of resources? That being said most simulation games are usually memory-latency and memory-bandwidth limited, not compute limited.
- notamy 3y agohttp://archive.today/jkQw9 http://archive.today/jkQw9 The actual site times out on my end; did it get hugged to death?
- ehPReth 3y agoseems so, i just got a 503 from them after a very long delay. here's an IA link as well for those using Cloudflare's DNS resolvers: https://web.archive.org/web/20231026180914/https://www.dsogaming.com/pc-performance-analyses/cities-skylines-2-runs-with-20fps-on-an-nvidia-rtx4090-at-4k-high-even-on-an-empty-map/ https://web.archive.org/web/20231026180914/https://www.dsoga...
- zbuttram 3y agoSeems like this was likely from before the hotfix that was released this morning which has improvements for some of the more egregious issues mentioned like DOF, LOD, and global illumination: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/949230/view/3709336747339206365?l=english https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/949230/view/37093367... Still far from ideal but glad to see movement so quickly from the dev team and as has been mentioned the game is certainly playable albeit with some setting tweaks.
- aranelsurion 3y agoMakes one think, if those issues were so quickly fixable, why they weren't fixed already to begin with?
- mplewis 3y agoWe know why. The game had to ship on a date, and those responsible were not willing to delay the launch date on the basis of performance issues.
- fennecbutt 3y agoExactly, and what the other replies to your comment don't understand is that: a; they'll patch performance over time b; humans forget things very quickly, initial bad reviews don't matter. Oh yeah, everyone remember the Panama papers? Yeah seems the public have forgotten about them a long time ago. What was done about em? Humans only remember some things.
- evanriley 3y agoAfter seeing this happen time and time again, it's kind of a wild decision to make. So many negative reviews I see these days are about performance issues. You would think a little more time would be put into reaching at least some reasonable performance level.
- bakugo 3y ago> So many negative reviews I see these days are about performance issues. Unfortunately, negative publicity from bad performance doesn't really stop these games from selling well, as proven by most AAA releases in the past few years.
- alberth 3y agoSounds like an Electron app.
- pelorat 3y agoUnity, so basically the same but for games.
- ptasci67 3y agoI will fully concede that the trend of game makers releasing half-baked, poorly optimized games that are buggy and unplayable at launch is totally a thing and it is frustrating and we should demand better (though we keep buying so why would they stop?). BUT.... the online game community is so insufferable and this Cities Skylines II launch is a great example of it. The game is not about 4k 120 fps gameplay. It is a simulation game that runs fairly well even on last gen's hardware if you drop SOME of the fidelity settings. But that's not the predominant discourse. If people can't play it at 4k out of the box on their overpriced 4090 then they take straight to the internet to complain (and mind you they have tried fiddling with exactly 0 knobs to make it runnable). I am by no means making excuses for game makers who certainly share much of the blame for creating an environment of distrust among game fans. But the online discourse is just rage baiting and looking for anything to hate with minimal evidence or sometimes even outright lies. Makes me want to go into a cave and play my games without seeing any content or discussion about it.
- gymbeaux 3y agoIt’s an interesting notion that we are forced into buying better, newer hardware, more often, because of “capitalism”. It’s an interesting thought that, given the perfect software, one might run Fallout 4 on a Radeon HD 5750 or Cities Skylines on a Pentium 4.
- wackget 3y ago> If people can't play it at 4k out of the box on their overpriced 4090 then they take straight to the internet to complain (and mind you they have tried fiddling with exactly 0 knobs to make it runnable). The top comment contains this extract from an IGN review: > I have a 13900k, 64GB of RAM, and a RTX 4090, playing on a 1440p ultrawide monitor. I got 35fps at the main menu and in game on a brand new map w/o building a single thing. Turning off motion blur and depth field increased this from 35 to 50fps. Not a single other graphics setting changed the performance at all. I turned off every single setting I could or set it to the lowest possible, and still only got 50fps.
- ptasci67 3y ago
- albertzeyer 3y agoI have played a little bit and I'm a bit confused about all the negative feedback regarding the performance. I have an AMD Ryzen 9 3900X and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090, so not too bad, but also not the best. And the game runs totally fine for me. I just reduced the screen resolution (I think 1920x1024 or so) and left the other settings as they were (I think all set to High). And I get very constant 45 FPS without hiccups. It feels very smooth and playable. Maybe it will get a bit worse when my city gets bigger, but so far, I don't see any problems. This is even before the first patch, which was released today. This patch is supposed to optimize the performance more. I will try it later. Note, this is with Linux. I run it on Linux with Proton 8. So maybe it actually runs better on Linux than on Windows?
- LegitShady 3y agoYou're playing on an rtx 3090 at 1920x1024 and get 45 fps. I'm confused why you're confused about the negative feedback.
- crimsontech 3y agoI don’t get it.I would be fuming, it’s a 4k card and it is sputtering out 45fps at 1080p.
- bigstrat2003 3y ago45 FPS is not "sputtering". It's perfectly acceptable.
- sp332 3y ago4k is a resolution, not an amount of work done per frame.
- pirocks 3y agoThey mean that it's a card people typically buy with the intention of playing games at 4k.
- 3y ago
- Wowfunhappy 3y agoIs this on maximum settings? Does the game still look good when the settings are turned down? If so (!), I see no issue here, and on the contrary I applaud them for including options. It gives players more options (the person who doesn't mind aliasing can play at 1080p and get incredible lighting effects), and makes the game more future proof.
- bee_rider 3y agoThe we appear to have slashdotted the site, so I’m just reacting to the headline, but is this a big problem? It is a Paradox published game, presumably we’ll be playing it in 2030 on RTX9070’s or whatever (And buying expansions). It seems like a shame if the ultimate quality is limited by the hardware available now. Turn down the setting ‘till you hit 30fps (this isn’t a twitch shooter.
- garrettjoecox 3y agoYou do realize a 4090 is currently $1,600 USD right?
- bee_rider 3y agoYeah it seems like a ripoff, I’m sure in a couple years more capable, cheaper cards will come out (and then people still playing this game can enjoy it with all the bells and whistles).
- CyberDildonics 3y agoYeah it seems like a ripoff, What you wish something would be priced is not the point. It is priced relative to its power. I’m sure in a couple years more capable, cheaper cards will come out Maybe they should wait and release their unoptimized game then.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- u10 3y agoWhile the game should not have been released in this state (or at least with defaults set to broken graphics settings, such as motion blur and depth of field), CO released a patch today and users are saying that it has dramatically increased performance. https://old.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17gxkrf/patch_notes_for_1011f1_hotfix/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17gxkrf/pat...
- brucethemoose2 3y agoIn other words, this is a true Paradox game. For those that don't play other Paradox published games... Newly launched Paradox games are early access. Maybe perpetual early access with on-and-off performance woes, like Stellaris and other Clausewitz games. As much as I like Paradox games, that and the endless DLC is the steep price you pay for their sim games.
- brianflakes 3y agoI believe that lots of the pushback on the game are due to poor defaults. Lots of unnecessary graphics settings are enabled, leading to bad first time experiences. After disabling elements that most users won't care about (motion blur, volumetric clouds, global illumination) and following some tips from people online, I find no issue enjoying the game >60fps without my GPU fans screaming. (to be fair, using 7900x / 3090) Yes the graphics need optimization, but they could have rolled out the release with good defaults and just admitted that high end graphics needed more time... but you can enjoy the game in the meantime! Instead, their steam reviews will remain marred.
- fourteenfour 3y agoYay, finally a comment that is similar to my experience and isn't speculation or kneejerk reaction. I'm enjoying the game at 4k and it looks better than CS now that I've adjusted things. They totally screwed up the default settings, not sure why as it seems like an unforced error. It actually picked a resolution with a 24Hz refresh rate when it first loaded for me. I think their "virtual texturing" optimization also kicks off on first run, making the initial menu experience stuttery and slow.
- onli 3y agoThey even wrote about it beforehand. They knew that there a few single settings that kill performance, which they wanted to address with a guide. Instead of changing the default settings accordingly, it seems! Madness, a completely self-inflicted launch disaster.
- bcrosby95 3y agoThere's certain problematic graphical settings for CS2 right now. If you have a potato GPU and put it on low settings (as you should with a low end GPU) the performance is fine. My card is below the recommended specs and its perfectly playable with a city of 50k.
- deanCommie 3y agoAccording to Collossal Order: https://twitter.com/ColossalOrder/status/1716883884724322795 https://twitter.com/ColossalOrder/status/1716883884724322795 > If you're having issues with performance, we recommend you reduce screen resolution to 1080p, disable Depth of Field and Volumetrics, and reduce Global Illumination while we work on solving the issues affecting performance. I tried it and had no problems. Everything is smooth, no visual problems. I have a mid-tier Radeon from 3 years ago. Yeah they fucked up the launch and it's unfortunate they're getting such negative press, but it's a city simulator it doesn't need 120FPS, what are we talking about? If you want to just have fun and go build cities, there's a clear path for it
- jiggawatts 3y agoSome people are fine with driving at 10 mph because the transmission is broken in their brand new car. “It’s not a Ferrari and I’m not racing.”
- deanCommie 3y agoAn extremely un-generous interpretation. I would more compare it to "The air conditioner is broken, and the radio crashes. But it still gets me from home to work." The stuff needs to be fixed, but the core purpose is absolutely met. The core purpose of a city builder/simulator is to let you creatively build well-simulated non-buggy beautiful cities. You can absolutely do that. The fact that some volumetric effects are missing, or that you can't do it in 4K is absolutely a problem, and the devs should fix it. But let's not pretend like this is the equivalent of going 10mph on the road without being able to shift gears, come on.
- nrjames 3y agoIt's likely they had a financial agreement with their publisher that stated that the game would launch prior to November 2023 or they would lose some % of the revenue. Publisher contracts often also mandate a certain Metacritic score must be met in order to receive full payment.
- bryanlarsen 3y agoLooks like this is the straw that'll finally get me to upgrade my 12 year old CPU and 7 year old GPU. Has anybody figured out what a usable GPU is with today's patch? My initial research indicated that there's a sharp performance hit for 8GB of VRAM or less, so I was thinking the 12GB 6700XT might be the cheapest card with usable performance. Is that still the case with Friday's patch? So far the best info I've found is the spreadsheet attached to City Planner Play's benchmarking guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyNiXYC9eoM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyNiXYC9eoM
- petercooper 3y agoStandards have certainly changed over the years. This takes me straight back to 2003 when SimCity 4 came out, turned out to be an absolute resource hog, and I'd have been overjoyed with 20fps. As the late Henry Petroski said: "The most amazing achievement of the computer software industry is its continuing cancellation of the steady and staggering gains made by the computer hardware industry."
- BenoitP 3y agoI've heard this version: "what Andy giveth, Bill taketh away" (Intel vs Microsoft CEOs) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law Henry Petroski probably said it first though
- HappyDaoDude 3y agoSeeing what folks in the demoscene can do nowadays with such limited hardware makes modern software feel all the more puzzling. I mean, yes demoscene stuff isn't concerned about ease of development, security or integration. But it does leave you yearning, think about the possibilities of modern hardware if treated with care.
- distract8901 3y agoThis is the precise reason I prefer embedded development. The challenge of fitting my entire application into a handful of kilobytes with just a KB or two of RAM is a lot of fun. I get to build a program that runs really fast on a very slow system. It's a point of personal pride for me to really understand what the machine is and what it's doing. Programming this way is working with the machine rather than trying to beat it into submission like you do with high level languages. It seems a lot of programmers just see the CPU as a black box, if they even think about it at all. I don't expect more than a couple percent of programmers would truly grok the modern x86 architecture, but if you stop to consider how the CPU actually executes your code, you might make better decisions. In the same vein, very high level languages are a big part of the problem. It's so far abstracted from the hardware that you can't reason about how it will actually behave on any real machine. And then you also have an invisible iceberg of layer upon layer upon layer of abstraction and indirection and unknowable, unreadable code that there's no reasonable way to know that your line of code does what you think and nothing else. Modern software practices are bad and we should all throw away our computers and go back to the 8086. Just throw away the entire field of programming and start again.
- Aperocky 3y agoI've always had a felt for city building games having played since Simcity 4 first came out in 2003. imo the genre does not need great graphic - it needs great content, Song of Syx is one of my more recent (~2 years) favorite, having a city building game unable to run with the best video card is baffling at best. I still consider Simcity 4 with full mods and addons the best ever, but for some reason the industry doesn't seem to make similar titles any more, the newer city building games focus on details but gives up on scale.
- harrid 3y agoIt also uses 10+k drawcalls per frame. It's amateur hour over there, bordering on fraud. Even more frustrating to see how successful that model is. And how feverish people defend them online.
- naikrovek 3y agothis is what happens when you focus on content before performance. they'll get that number way down over time. games are data problems, like every other computer program. you must know your data before you can optimize how it is moved around efficiently. draw calls are a very good benchmark for this. as they optimize, it will go way down, if it hasn't already.
- tbm57 3y agosoftware optimization as a practice is dead
- kgabis 3y agoNo it's not, there's plenty of amazingly optimized pieces of software.
- aeonik 3y agoI'd love to learn more about your methodology. Are you using in game tools or OS tools?
- jncfhnb 3y agoPeople make dumb problems for themselves. Play games on 1080. Hardware requirements for otherwise max settings drop like a rock.
- xtracto 3y agoOoh is thereba new CiSk game? I enjoyed playing the first one some years ago I'll have to check it out!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Geee 3y agoI'm guessing they're rendering those trees without any LODs, i.e. they're always pushing millions of polygons. That's why the settings don't make a huge difference.
- Daunk 3y agoUnity. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- mrcwinn 3y agoI admit to not knowing much about the history behind this decision, but it does seem like an odd choice. If I were making a game that was both GPU-intensive as well as CPU-intensive as the simulation scales, I would target performance when selecting my game engine. Seems like C++ is a better choice compared to C#.
- amlib 3y agoAFAIK Unity is not made on C#, only the scripting is C#. The engine itself is coded in C++, just like most other game engines. It's kinda like complaining that ID software has been using LUA for scripting inside their engine since RAGE, probably not a good factor for engine performance.
- Waterluvian 3y agoI’ve been playing Pillars of Eternity and I’m amazed just how poorly it runs given what it is. I’d love a no-judgment, no-blame post mortem on a game like that, which tries to dig into the technical reasons why it’s so poorly optimized and the non-technical reasons for how they get there. I’d imagine it usually boils down to having a deadline and a budget, but I’m quite interested in understanding the in-between portion much more intimately.
- TylerE 3y agoWell, they both use the same engine. That might be a hint. Yes, to be clear, I'm talking about Unity.
- Waterluvian 3y agoThat’s one of those convenient non-exploratory answers I’m hoping to dig past. It might be related, but we don’t really know based on this alone.
- TylerE 3y agoVirtually every Unity game ever that does a non-trivial level of background simulation has considerable jank. There’s just a point where you hav wot say - look - Unity games consistently have performance issues at some point it’s legit to just call it a poorly performing platform.
- Waterluvian 3y agoCities Skylines 1 performed remarkably well on midrange computers, particularly for just how good the simulation is and how busy the viewport can get.
- TylerE 3y agoThe same cities skyline where traffic hasn't worked properly since day 1? It may not be as bad as some, but C:S has plenty of issues on it's own if you try to play it as an actual game and not a scenery painter, which is all its' really good for. It's always been ocean wide, pond deep.
- pawelduda 3y agoIt will keep happening because people rush to preorder or buy shitty, unfinished games on a release day- just look at Jedi Survivor from this year. The game was in a laughable state for months after release. I thought waiting for so long was enough for the patch shitshow to be over. No incentives to ship good quality games, especially looking at larger companies. Luckily there are still sincere reviewers that will give you heads up about it I want to give shout-out to the studio behind Lies of P. Game was super well optimized since release and I can't recall a single bug during dozens of hours of gameplay. It's a bit sad that it went by without a lot of hype. This is the kind of game dev that should be praised.
- HappyDaoDude 3y agoAlong these lines - For all the rubbish Nintendo does, they do know how to ship complete games. Games that if never patched, just work.
- KMnO4 3y agoProbably because they don’t need to spend any time designing them. “Hey, remember that game we made in 1995? Let’s update the graphics and rerelease it for the switch at full price!”
- Jensson 3y agoYou think Cities Skylines 1 to 2 is a larger leap than Skyward Sword to Breath of the Wild? Otherwise I'm not sure what you are talking about.
- HappyDaoDude 3y agoNot OP and a bit of an aside but, funnily enough the leap from BotW to TotK actually was the first time in a while that I felt like Nintendo didn't really bring that kind of refinement and innovation. It wasn't not a bad game, not by a long shot, but it lacked that usually tight gameplay and experience that you come to expect. This is in large part the open world as it felt like they used scale rather than refinement to get those across the line.
- Bellend 3y agoIt's a Unity game. Why are people genuinely surprised that performance is absolute garbage? Both CS2 and KSP2 (kerbal) REQUIRE incredibly specific tuning that unity simply does not offer. The latter being rigid bodies at scale (which is semi impossible with a dedicated engine) and the former being "almost-factorio-level" low level cell processing. The graphics of both are second tier to that. But no, lets use Unity... Edit: I got former and latter mixed up.
- poisonarena 3y agoeverytime i used to play a game and the made by unity logo popped up i would let out a big sigh...
- bcrosby95 3y agoYeah, because it means the devs don't have a few thousand in the budget to support removing the logo, so of course they don't have the money to pay people to performance tune the game. That logo was the dumbest idea ever.
- TylerE 3y agoSecond worse. The old Unity input configurator is the ACTUAL worst idea ever.
- rozab 3y agoThat's probably because the game is made with a Unity Personal license, for small or cheap studios only. With other licenses the splash can be disabled. https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/PlayerSettings.SplashScreen-showUnityLogo.html https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/PlayerSettings.Spla... This selective limitation has probably had a significant negative effect on Unity's reputation.
- Vetch 3y agoOne of the best games ever made, Outer Wilds, was done in Unity. Dyson Sphere Program is an excellent factorio style game that's very well optimized. I do not share your same trepidation on seeing the logo (doesn't move me in any direction, both some of the best and some truly awful games have been made with it).
- Waterluvian 3y agoHow hard is it to debug shaders? I admit I’ve only written like two shaders for WebGL and I found it to feel like a black box I feed code into and see what I get out the other end.
- NKosmatos 3y agoDo modern AAA games support dual (or multiple) GPUs? In my days we had SLI and Crossfire, but I don’t think there’s something like it nowadays. For sure better coded games with proper software driver support will be needed, but I think this trend of having bigger and more power hungry GPUs needs to de-escalate. I was reading this article about multi GPU gaming, and perhaps this is the way to go: https://www.xda-developers.com/what-happened-multi-gpu-gaming/ https://www.xda-developers.com/what-happened-multi-gpu-gamin...
- Iulioh 3y ago>Do modern AAA games support dual (or multiple) GPUs? The problem is that modern GPUs don't support multiple GPUs lol iirc the series 30 was the last to do it and only 3090 and ti
- NKosmatos 3y agoThere are many configurations with workstations having multiple GPUs for rendering, AI/ML training, password cracking and so on. Surely if the game code and the display driver supported it, there would be speedups.
- VHRanger 3y agoAlmost no games support this nowadays. It creates more problems than it solves, because the performance issue isn't raw FLOPs now (it's stuff like memory bandwidth)
- pixelpoet 3y agoI'm pretty sure that'll change when we go full ray/path tracing, because it parallelises much, much better than rasterisation.
- TinkersW 3y agoThis game sure is getting a lot of free marketing from all the complaints about the hilariously bad performance for such a mid looking game.
- mrcwinn 3y agoFrom their 1.0.11f1 patch notes: > Fixed crash when car crashes into still hidden car with trailer Incredible realism from this simulator. The app crashes when a car crashes!
- NBJack 3y agoOh shit. Is this the real reason they didn't let anyone advance their city beyond a certain point in the preview period? I thought they didn't want early reviewers to spoil the game, but this would naturally limit the complexity on screen.
- brailsafe 3y agoWatching the preview content they were hocking with youtubers and on their main channel, I did get the sinking feeling it would be DoA. Didn't even hear that it came out. Not initially because of performance issues, but because it seemed like they were just adding a few incremental things to the already brutally sluggish engine, and the anticipated release from announcement seemed short. None it seemed very ambitious for a 2nd major release 7 years later or whatever. No shade at the actual devs mind you, they're just working with the constraints they have, it's better than what I could achieve almost certainly, but it didn't seem buyable.
- fomine3 3y agoIt's futureproof! /s?
- duluca 3y agoThe bigger issue is that the actual graphics themselves look the same as the previous game. I’m sure you can do side-by-side stuff and show it’s better, but I was hoping for a tour-de-force of amazing looking cities. A no buy for me until something changes.
- anticensor 3y agoThings have not improved since Cities:Skylines 1. It was similarly underperforming.
- juliangmp 3y agoI'm a bit confused about the performance numbers I've seen about cities II I "only" have a 3090 and get consistent frames around 40-50 And yeah that's low, I'd prefer 60 or above but I'm nowhere near 10-20
- cristaloleg 3y agoReminds me Jonathan Blow about Apple M1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unx3WCWZwUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unx3WCWZwUc
- ChildOfChaos 3y agoWorth noting that this is expected. The publisher announced it would have issues that would be fixed later a few weeks before release.