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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

• alphanullmeric 3y ago
  Not surprised to see the patriot act talking points that EU residents are using to justify making rules about other people’s money. after all, Europeans and the redistribution of consequences go together like bread and butter.
• lost_tourist 3y ago
  I hope that people of the netherlands rebel against government considering them all criminals first and checking for innocence later.
• tyrion 3y ago
  More than the limit, what seems absurd to me is that businesses seem to be allowed to refuse cash as a form of payment. I am reading the translated version of the article, and it says: > A seller can decide not to accept cash above a certain amount. Or not accepting cash at all. Why would not accepting cash at all be allowed? What is the other alternative? Mastercard, visa etc? If for example, a super market chain stops accepting cash and starts accepting only Visa, and for whatever reason I do not have a visa credit card, or worse I am banned by Visa,then I cannot buy groceries anymore? Also, I am not exactly sure everybody has access to a credit card. Maybe I am missing something here, but this seems a bit stupid/crazy to me.
  • dmix 3y ago
    Not every detail of a business's operations needs to be regulated by the government. I can think of many undo costs this could impose on random small businesses, stripe + iphone should be more than enough for some random business working at some event, forcing them to carry a change box + manually write down every transcation/receipt, risk theft, etc. Always comes with the best intentions though.
• tkz1312 3y ago
  This kind of absurd bullshit is exactly why crypto is so important. Access to cash like money is a human right, and this right is being rapidly eroded across the world.
  • porkbeer 3y ago
    Crypto is not a replacement for cash, and most are MORE trackable than cash.
• trizuz 3y ago
  [dead]
• BrandoElFollito 3y ago
  We have this limit in France for years now. Another useful one is that in order to pay for a house you have to wire the amount to a notary who holds the amount in escrow on a special bank account managed by an entity similar to the national central bank (Caisse des Dépôts). You do not need to worry about not being paid, or being scammed.
  • bathory 3y ago
    There is a somewhat famous case in Germany, where an elderly couple's house got sold without them knowing, because someone changed the paper deed, and some scummy business man confirmed that he got the money in cash. They better introduce systems like this in Germany too, but they rather drown in mafia related crime than admitting that their analog way of doing business and clinging on to cash is a mistake.
• pnt12 3y ago
  I wonder about the numbers: are cash payments a major enabler in imoral activity? I guess they can make it slightly more difficult for a drug dealer to buy a car or house, but my intuition is that corruption and money laundering deal with much higher numbers and can go around it. Not that fighting 1 bad thing is wrong, but considering disadvantagedssuch as loss of privacy and (even) more reliance on banks, we must balance the pros and cons.
• SergeAx 3y ago
  This is really frustrating. Cash payments are a vital part of basic human right to keep one's life private. Also as an immigrant with limited access to banking I personally may be limited in options to buy thihgs with my honestly earned money.
• seydor 3y ago
  * legal cash payments Many eu countries alreadt have such limits , and I think it's fine to require that for legal transactions. After all the tax man has eyes everywhere already.
• tikkun 3y ago
  Here's the google translate: # What is the maximum amount I can pay in cash? At this time, you may pay for all purchases in cash. For cash purchases above € 10,000, the seller must conduct a customer due diligence. But not all sellers accept cash. The cabinet is working on a bill to ban cash payments from € 3,000. ## Pay for purchases in cash At this time, you may pay for all purchases in cash. It doesn't matter how high the amount is. A seller can decide not to accept cash above a certain amount. Or at all [no cash to be accepted](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/geldzaken/vraag-en-antwoord/kan-ik-met-een-wettig-betaalmiddel-overal-betalen https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/geldzaken/vraag-en-...). ## Customer research for purchases above € 10,000 Do you make a purchase that costs more than € 10,000 and do you pay in cash? Then the seller must conduct a [client investigation](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/financiele-sector/aanpak-witwassen-en-financiering-terrorisme/veelgestelde-vragen-wwft#anker-4-wat-is-een-clientenonderzoek-volgens-de-wwft https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/financiele-sector/a...). This check is mandatory to prevent money laundering and terrorist financing. ## Bill on cash payments up to € 3,000 There is a [legislative proposal in the making to prohibit cash payments from € 3,000](https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/wetsvoorstellen/detail?cfg=wetsvoorsteldetails&qry=wetsvoorstel%3A36228 https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/wetsvoorstellen/deta...). This applies to all buyers and sellers of goods. When the new law comes into effect, you may no longer pay for purchases from € 3,000 in cash.
• bluescrn 3y ago
  Give it a decade or two of inflation, and that's cash effectively outlawed
  • raincom 3y ago
    Exactly this. Currency transaction reports are mandatory for any individual transactions > $10,000. This limit $10K was established in 1970 (Bank Secrecy Act). After 50 years, $10,000 of 1970 should have been at least $50K of 2023. Politicians and their crony bureaucrats never want to index these limits with inflation.
    • renegade-otter 3y ago
      Correction: the index what they need for the right people.
    • paxys 3y ago
      Here's another one – the USD $100 note was introduced in 1914. If currency denominations were to keep up with inflation, the Fed would be printing $3000 bills today.
  • version_five 3y ago
    In Canada, and I think the US we cannot cross the border with > 10k in cash (edit: more if you declare it as mentioned below). The law has been there for as long as I can remember, be I sure purchasing power of 10k has gone down by at least a factor of 4-10 over the life of the law. All regulation type laws need sunset clauses and all dollar amounts should be inflation linked. The government shouldn't be able to scam more powers like this.
    • bawolff 3y ago
      I was under the impression you were still allowed you just had to fill out a form.
    • eru 3y ago
      I think the law technically states that you have to declare, if you have more cash. It's not directly forbidden, is it?
• dudul 3y ago
  Can't read Dutch, but I'm pretty sure there is a version of "muh' terrorism!" in there.
  • badestrand 3y ago
    Good guess! "Money Laundering Action Plan Act Amendment of the Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing Prevention Act in connection with the ban on cash payments for goods from 3,000 euros and the expansion of the options for information exchange for the gatekeeper function." From https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/wetsvoorstellen/detail?cfg=wetsvoorsteldetails&qry=wetsvoorstel%3A36228 https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/wetsvoorstellen/deta..., translated by Chrome/Google Translate.
  • deleted 3y ago
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  • imchillyb 3y ago
    > Money Laundering Action Plan Act > Amendment of the Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing Prevention Act in connection with the prohibition of cash payments for goods from 3,000 euros and the expansion of the possibilities for information exchange for the gatekeeper function. > https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/wetsvoorstellen/detail?cfg=wetsvoorsteldetails&qry=wetsvoorstel%3A36228 https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/wetsvoorstellen/deta... Yup. Another anti-terrorism bill aimed at the general populace, instead of terrorists.
  • frankzander 3y ago
    They have a cocain problem there ...
    • cies 3y ago
      Who said it's a problem?
      • yourusername 3y ago
        The bombs going off almost daily in the big cities aren't great.
• redox99 3y ago
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• deleted 3y ago
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• potatototoo99 3y ago
  There are many similar restrictions on other countries. Here is a list for Europe: https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cash-payment-limitations.html https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cas... The equivalent of 3,000 - 4,000 Euro seems to be the norm.
  • potatototoo99 3y ago
    Spain's 1,000€ may be the most restrictive, close to Romania's 5,000 lei.
    • jWhick 3y ago
      I'm quite sure they are not enforcing it since i was traveling to and walking with across spain with much more.
      • ajmurmann 3y ago
        But did you make a single payment with more? I understand that's the limitation
      • addandsubtract 3y ago
        What did you buy for over 1k in cash? I can only imagine a car or bike, but you said walking, so I'm curious...
        • orangepurple 3y ago
          Food, shelter, transportation, adult entertainment, and adult beverages
        • qup 3y ago
          Lawnmower, motorcycle, four wheeler, tractor, excavator, specialty tools, toolboxes, computers, phones, safes, firearms are some big ticket things I and those around me have paid for in cash, all used.
      • 3y ago
• mistrial9 3y ago
  civilians, adults .. consider your rights to trade as you see fit among each other
• tantalor 3y ago
  Sounds like this only applies to certain players: The Wwft applies to anyone involved in cash flows or the purchase and sale of (expensive) goods. For example: banks; estate agents; notaries; tax advisers; lawyers; people who mediate in the purchase and sale of, for example, vehicles, art objects and jewellery. So one-off transactions (you sell some personal item and accept cash) are probably exempt from the due diligence check.
• betaby 3y ago
  3K is not even top of the line laptop nowadays.
• mtmail 3y ago
  Some countries like Denmark (starting 2020) have banned paying with the 500 Euro bank note. It's also no longer printed, but some 600 million of them still exist. I've seen a documentary where (I think it was Swedish police) would like to ban 200 Euro notes as well.
  • eru 3y ago
    The only reason the 500 Euro bank note exists in the first place was that the Germans wanted a replacement for their 1,000 Mark note. (Apparently their reasoning was something along the lines of: what if you want to buy a car?) Meanwhile in Singapore we have a 10,000 dollar note (which is worth about 6,800 Euro at the moment.)
    • trizuz 3y ago
      [dead]
    • mikhailfranco 3y ago
      I think Switzerland and UAE also (with SG) have large notes, with some commitment to continue cash payments. Strange bedfellows in the fight for freedom, but all welcome to the cause.
    • qsi 3y ago
      The 10,000 dollar note remains legal tender in Singapore but is being withdrawn from circulation together with the 1,000 note: "Note: MAS has stopped issuing the following notes as a pre-emptive measure to reduce the potential money laundering and terrorism financing risks associated with large denomination notes: The $1,000 notes with effect from 1 January 2021. The $10,000 notes with effect from 1 October 2014. Existing $10,000 and $1,000 notes in circulation remain legal tender in Singapore and can continue to be used as a means of payment for goods and services." https://www.mas.gov.sg/currency/circulation-currency/circulation-currency-notes#:~:text=Existing%20%2410%2C000%20and%20%241%2C000%20notes,payment%20for%20goods%20and%20services https://www.mas.gov.sg/currency/circulation-currency/circula....
  • Jiocus 3y ago
• sph 3y ago
  This is good for Bitcoin.
  • maxwell 3y ago
    Bitcoin is a surveillance system.
  • nostrfanboi 3y ago
    Everything is good for bitcoin.
  • criddell 3y ago
    In another part of this thread, somebody quoted a section where it listed cash, crypto, gold, platinum, and precious stones as all being part of the legislation.
    • sph 3y ago
      Crypto can only be controlled at the legal conversion point to/from fiat. Because otherwise it's just a packet over the Internet. Mind you, I said legal. Because black markets have always existed to fill the niche prohibited by the government. These days the black market also lets you bypass KYC laws for crypto. Legislators up in their ivory tower have always held the misguided belief that laws can direct human behaviour. If one wants to make a "cash" (i.e. untraceable) transaction over €3000, it's not laws that are gonna stop them. The viability of Bitcoin is correlated by how tight they pull the noose around cash. As an obnoxious crypto-anarchist, I welcome these laws, this is how the state will destroy its own currency in favour of the one that doesn't respect borders, limits and embargoes. People will always favour the currency with the least amount of hoops to jump through.
      • criddell 3y ago
        > Crypto can only be controlled Cash isn’t really controlled either. If my neighbor wants to sell me his guitar for $10,000 I can take a bundle of cash to him and get the guitar. > the misguided belief that laws can direct human behaviour Laws can direct human behavior. > People will always favour the currency with the least amount of hoops to jump through I mostly agree with this. It’s a lot easier for me to use US dollars (directly or indirectly through a debit or credit card) than pesos or rubles or yen. So I spend US dollars mostly through a credit card because it’s easy, fast, has generous rewards, and protects me from shitty sellers.
• cies 3y ago
  Let bring back gold payments! There are already some institutions that offer gold certificates: notes that represent gold stored in some bolt and collectable on demand. It was a good idea all along and the reason that "gold back currency does not fit a growing economy" is BS if not properly substantiated.
  • KaiserPro 3y ago
    There is nothing stopping you from using gold as payment. But its not anonymous, if you want consumer protection then you need a contract (thats how gold is traded, and has been for many many years) You don't want to physically exchange gold, because verification of gold's value is super hard. In low volumes proving that you have the correct volume and purity is very difficult and expensive.
  • sneak 3y ago
    The problem with gold deposit certificates is centralization. There was one called Liberty Reserve that was catching on, but predictably they were raided and shut down.
    • cies 3y ago
      > The problem with gold deposit certificates is centralization. I find fiat currency pretty centralized as well. So centralization is not very gold specific. There're even some "gold on blockchain" going on, which would --to some extend-- solve that problem.
• hknmtt 3y ago
  if i am not mistaken, it already is 5000€ across EU for personal payments and 8k or 10k for business payments for years. So it is not a surprise they are pushing it down even more to limit people from holding cash. They will not outlaw it straight up due to many constitutions protecting it but they will make using it as hard as possible. The same as with covid, they imposed so many obstacles for ordinary people that it was easier to just comply.
• throwaw33333434 3y ago
  If the endgame is to ban cash, what would be the back up plan for in case of war, solar flare* or other natural disaster? *electromagnetic pulse destroy electronic devices (no ATMs, card readers)
  • csomar 3y ago
    What backup plan? Once cash is banned, all balances will be confiscated. Either directly, or indirectly (inflation + restrictions on money movements).
  • ohgodplsno 3y ago
    If an EMP truly destroys most of our electronic devices, money will be the least of your worries.
    • zeroonetwothree 3y ago
      The world worked fine before electronics. Sure, the adjustment period would be harsh, but it’s silly to think civilization would end completely.
      • ohgodplsno 3y ago
        End completely, no. But the "civilized" way of exchanging cash for goods will be gone for quite a little bit. Long enough that we can figure out how to make more cash. Not that the existing one will be miraculously gone either.
      • freedude 3y ago
        Your immediate need will be water, food, and security from it getting stolen. It is pretty much all three at once. The cities will be awful places with death, destruction, and lawlessness.
      • ilyt 3y ago
        The world had far fewer people before electronics, and they in part allowed for the agriculture to keep up. Even assuming things like tractors etc. still work see how much yield local farmer will get once he can't get their fertilizers and pesticides shipped. "harsh" is understatement, we're talking hundreds of millions dying from hunger within a year or two.
• _visgean 3y ago
  We had a guy in Usti nad labem coming to Raiffeisenbank every few weeks and deposing money, approximately 4b usd in total. The bank was supposed to run due diligence but its Raiffeisenbank which does not seem to give a shit. I can sort of understand trying to limit cash when you see that the due diligence is mostly omitted. https://www.irozhlas.cz/zpravy-domov/smenarny-prani-spinavych-penez-rusko-libor-ondracek-usti-nad-labem_2107130600_ace https://www.irozhlas.cz/zpravy-domov/smenarny-prani-spinavyc...
  • dmurray 3y ago
    4 billion dollars! Supposing he carried a large army rucksack each time, full with 25kg of US $100 bills. That would be 2.5 million dollars a time, and it would still take him 1600 trips. If he came "every few weeks" at 20 times a year, it would take him 80 years. A billion dollars really is a lot of money. Perhaps he brought the money by wheelbarrow or car or container truck, or he dealt exclusively in €500 notes, so I suppose it's not completely unbelievable.
    • junofan 3y ago
      I would imagine one would invest in a van that could carry pallets.
      • dr_win 3y ago
        According to the article it took him 15 years. Had been frequently visiting a single bank in Prague center (Raiffeisenbank) only with a briefcase exchanging EUR into USD in cash. Doing each time 2+2 hour round trip by train from his home town Usti nad Labem (sometimes carring up to 5M USD) .
    • _visgean 3y ago
      he was mostly using euros per the article. Also the article mentions he mostly traveled by train... The article mentions he usually took the money back in dolars.
• tlogan 3y ago
  The news like this make songs like this very popular: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sqSA-SY5Hro https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sqSA-SY5Hro (Lord knows they all just wanna have total control)
  • Mashimo 3y ago
    Do you think the new rule will mainly affect blue color workers?
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • itsyaboi 3y ago
      Why do you ask?
  • turambler 3y ago
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• calini 3y ago
  I'm very much a fan of choice here. I haven't personally used cash more than twice in the last 3 years, I love the convenience of Apple/Google Pay, but cash clearly still needs to exist
  • jjgreen 3y ago
    Use it or lose it.
    • bondarchuk 3y ago
      Very true. There's a small segment in the netherlands who are doing just that, with the slogan "betaal bewust contant" (~pay cash consciously/purposefully), e.g. they go out of their way to pay cash at supermarkets even when there is only 1 cash register that allows it and all others are cashless. As I understand a similar movement exists in germany and is much more popular there (I guess due to their history with totalitarianism and persecution).
    • duxup 3y ago
      I can't disagree, but there's also reasons I don't use it.
      • freedude 3y ago
        I challenge you to analyze them over the long term. I believe you will find they are poor reasons that don't hold up to long term thinking.
        • deleted 3y ago
          [deleted]
  • freedude 3y ago
    I have found when I use cash I don't overspend as often. So I looked it up and this is a known expectation of the banking industry. So I converted to cash as much as I can and my finances are much better. The internal argument is that it is not convenient for me to need to work only with cash. That is true it is less convenient but when I sacrifice due diligence for convenience then it turns out long term cash is more convenient.
• deleted 3y ago
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• mdrzn 3y ago
  The maximum limit for cash payments in Italy is 1000€, so 3k would still be a lot. Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? Where does that cash come from? 60% of the times, it's money laundering every time. edit: I suppose since I'm in EU and I'm only 30 I'm "used" to the 1k limit, while non-EU (or specifically USA) people might be grabbing their pitchforks.
  • aaomidi 3y ago
    “I don’t want to store my money in a bank”.
  • spacewrangler 3y ago
    None of your business.
  • tomrod 3y ago
    > Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? For their own personal reasons. Purchasing a business, a vehicle, a property or other real/tangible asset, hush money, avoiding a lawsuit, and so forth. > Where does that cash come from? It doesn't matter. Why do you care where people get their currency from? Do you have a rash of mint or bank robberies or something?
    • OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      > Purchasing a business, a vehicle, a property These purchases are already so bound up with red tape that making the actual payment via bank transfer is hardly an inconvenience. > hush money Extortion is a crime. You are listing a person’s attempt to placate a criminal as a reason the state shouldn’t get involved? > avoiding a lawsuit Few places are so litigious as the USA, and such concerns hardly register for the people living in the subject of this HN post.
      • tomrod 3y ago
        > These purchases are already so bound up with red tape that making the actual payment via bank transfer is hardly an inconvenience. That's a separate problem that allowing overeager regulation of currency utilization enables. > Extortion is a crime. You are listing a person’s attempt to placate a criminal as a reason the state shouldn’t get involved? Correct, extortion is a crime in some locales. Note, I said hush money, not extortion. > Few places are so litigious as the USA, and such concerns hardly register for the people living in the subject of this HN post. Few as litigious as the USA _so far_. ------- A better set of questions here: who benefits, and by how much, with regulating currency so tightly?
• traveler01 3y ago
  It does start to feel that you serve more your government than it serves you. It wants to control everything, even how we spend our cash and how.
  • zer8k 3y ago
    Because they can't track it. Without total control of every aspect of your life they can't make sure you're a Good Person (TM). What if we let the Bad Guys (R) do whatever they want? Won't you think of the children? You wouldn't want children hurt would you? The irony of all this is the people that want sex workers, minorities, and other marginalized communities to live without fear also vote for these policies to keep their Bad Guy (R) under their thumb. Sic semper tyrannis.
    • jzb 3y ago
      Okay, why is Good Person (TM) and Bad Guy (R)? Are Good People still waiting for approval?
      • whelp_24 3y ago
        The good guys change hands a lot, but the bad guys are always the same amorphous group with small rebrands.
• bouncycastle 3y ago
  The war on privacy continues.
• londons_explore 3y ago
  Won't this just encourage large transactions to go back to barter of other valuable items? Eg. "I will swap you this $50k car for this $50k bag of diamonds"
  • Etheryte 3y ago
    I doubt it as the value of cash isn't only the value, but also in liquidity and granularity. Regardless of whether you have a $50k car or diamond, if you want to buy some groceries you're gonna need to liquidate because no one is gonna have a diamond worth $50k - $25 handy.
    • londons_explore 3y ago
      It's a bag of diamonds... there might be 50 $1k diamonds in there. And one 1k diamond can probably be exchanged for 50 packs of cigarettes... And one $20 pack of cigarettes can be split into 20 $1 cigarettes... Sure - it isn't quite as easy as cash, but it doesn't seem far off...
      • Etheryte 3y ago
        This is a nice theory, but doesn't really hold up in practice. For bartering to work, the other party has to hold an interest in what you have, a $1 bill and $1 cigarette are not interchangeable in that sense. If you want to buy bread but the baker doesn't smoke, what good would your cigarettes do for him?
• ceva 3y ago
  NL is just crazy with all the rules and all-around money, they have so much control over it that I have never seen that in any other place.
  • em500 3y ago
    As someone else mentioned, it's a thing all over Europe. https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cash-payment-limitations.html https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cas...
    • FinnKuhn 3y ago
      There is also a good chunk of countries with no limit for cash purchases. For example there is no limit on cash purchases in Germany with the exemption for real estate and rent above 10k a month. However it only it only came into force this year and so far it doesn't seem entirely clear of it is constitutional [1]. More interesting in my opinion are new proposed EU laws standardising money laundering laws in the EU, which seems to include a 10,000€ transaction limit for cash transactions...[2] [1]https://www.lto.de/recht/juristen/b/barzahlung-verbot-immobilien-geldwaesche-notar-sanktionsdurchsetzung-verfassungswidrig/ https://www.lto.de/recht/juristen/b/barzahlung-verbot-immobi... (in German) [2]https://www.dw.com/en/the-eu-declares-war-on-money-laundering/a-58583614 https://www.dw.com/en/the-eu-declares-war-on-money-launderin...
• karaterobot 3y ago
  Rather than knee-jerk downvoting everyone who gets it wrong, I'd like to point out that, in English, both the Euro symbol and the Dollar symbol go before the number.
  • porkbeer 3y ago
    Many people still write it the other way, even in the usa, particularly when no cents are involved. Your pedantry has been notid, but is not useful. Nobody is confused.
    • karaterobot 3y ago
      Noted.
• stickac 3y ago
  There is a Financial Tyranny Index by Vexl Foundation published here: https://github.com/vexl-it/fti/blob/main/fti.pdf https://github.com/vexl-it/fti/blob/main/fti.pdf Among other things, it shows Cash Limits in various countries: Greece 500 EUR, Spain, Italy, France 1000 EUR, Israel 1500 EUR, ...
  • tremon 3y ago
    Warning: that link doesn't open a PDF, it's a website with Javascript pdf viewer. Javascript tyranny forever, I guess.
    • ezekg 3y ago
      It's GitHub, which we're all familiar with. Click the download button if you want to view the actual file. Unless maybe the link changed?
  • 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    Who is the Vexl Foundation and why should I care about their index or what they think? I could create any index I want, along with a slick website, to deride or elevate any cause that I want.
    • dr_win 3y ago
      Creators of P2P bitcoin exchange: https://vexl.it https://vexl.it The data is well sourced and the code is open-source. You don't have to trust or rely on their authority. Don't trust, verify!
      • 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
        So a bitcoin exchange created an index that makes themselves look good?
• dealuromanet 3y ago
  [flagged]
  • sgt101 3y ago
    Oh please - have you been to Holland in the last 10 years? It's paradise. Yes, people with big cars and serial killers are frowned upon. What's not to like though?
    • cdiddy2 3y ago
      No protests at all....
      • sgt101 3y ago
        That's the point of democracy - people can protest.
  • mdrzn 3y ago
    Why do I get the feeling that you hope for this outcome, from this comment? And maybe you never visited the Netherlands? By the way, the boiling frog thing has been debunked many times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
    • me_me_me 3y ago
      you will see, next they will start dismantling roads and start putting in bicycle infrastructure, horrors!
      • dealuromanet 3y ago
        Gleeful at no more easy transport in or out, eh? Will the regime, I mean The Party, oops I mean The Cabinet, also be removing the noise cameras installed along the roads when they remove the roads? Or are those going to be kept there to protect the people from ideological deviants?
• fidotron 3y ago
  The very worth watching Milton Friedman PBS series about the merits of free markets was called “Freedom to Choose” for a good reason. For such markets to function you must be free to choose what you do to earn money and free to choose on what goods and services you wish to spend it on. Much of the series is arguing about what happens when governments attempt to control this dynamic leading to the exact opposite of the stated objectives. But really who wants to live in a system where you are so clearly funnelled from what it is you do every day to what it is you consume?
  • JW_00000 3y ago
    This system does not attempt to influence what you spend your money on, except when you're laundering money or want to use it buy illegal things. Not saying such systems don't also exist (e.g. food stamps, tax reliefs, different VAT regimes), but this is not it.
    • fidotron 3y ago
      Knowing that every transaction you ever make is centrally recorded for later review will absolutely impinge on the freedom of individuals to make those transactions, legality of them at the time being absolutely independent of their potential interest to subsequent inspection.
  • nikanj 3y ago
    The state does indeed try to rob you of your Freedom to Choose Paying Taxes.
• motohagiography 3y ago
  They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash, which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy. This is financial oppression that totally demoralizes their society as a means to dissolve it. It's not a lot of money, and given inflation, diminishingly so. This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash and farmers everywhere have a lot of tax relief precisely because they provide food security for nations - and it's to the benefit of criminal networks to top it off. The architects of this policy are disgusting.
  • rantallion 3y ago
    > There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass Are these migrants frequently making cash payments in excess of €3000?
    • someplaceguy 3y ago
      If they want to pay rent or buy a car or any other thing of value, yes. Also, it doesn't matter whether it's frequent or not. "Let's ban migrants from buying cars because they don't buy them frequently" is not exactly the most convincing argument.
      • occamrazor 3y ago
        Unregistered migrants cannot buy a car at all, because they can’t register it and get a plate (details differ between countries, but legal residence is a requirement everywhere in the EU). Registered migrants can get a bank account.
      • Aaargh20318 3y ago
        Who the hell pays rent in cash? I doubt that’s even an option with any rental company except for shady / illegal slumlords, who will ignore this law anyway. Also, what kind of illegal immigrant rents a >€3000/month home?
• atemerev 3y ago
  Here in Switzerland, I have a daily cash limit to put in ATM (there are ATMs allowing cash deposits), and this limit is about 50000 francs (52400 euros). Daily. Fully anonymous. There is no limit, of course, for in-person deposits (and withdrawals) at the bank counter. You can get millions in cash. And you can buy and sell gold bars anonymously. I love Switzerland. Not that I have that much money, but I love this kind of freedom.
  • jpsouth 3y ago
    I’m curious, aside from it going into a bank account (so it isn’t actually anonymous), my question is the mechanism of how the deposit works. In the UK we have deposit machines but you must put a card in the machine before depositing money (and my bank in particular make you input your PIN to make a deposit, so I just use the counter staff)
    • atemerev 3y ago
      Ah, yes, you have to put a card and sometimes (not always) know a PIN, but nobody checks whether it is your card.
• hankchinaski 3y ago
  in italy is 1,000EUR for a while, similar in other EU countries with varying thresholds. I personally prefer how the UK does it or other countries where private individuals have no limit but if you have a commercial activity you must have some regulation in place > The consumers can make cash payments without any limits. > The traders, however, need to register themselves with tax authorities as 'High Value Dealers' if accepting cash payments in excess of €10,000
  • jaclaz 3y ago
    >in italy is 1,000EUR for a while No, it is 5,000 in 2023 and never was 1,000: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37236767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37236767
    • hankchinaski 3y ago
      Was 1,000EUR in 2022 I keep forgetting as they keep changing it almost every year
      • jaclaz 3y ago
        It has never been 1,000 Euro, it was planned to become 1,000 (from 2,000) but then it was postponed last-minute and it remained 2,000 for 2022. In the linked post there is a link to this (Italian): https://www.axerve.com/approfondimenti/insight/limite-pagamento-contanti https://www.axerve.com/approfondimenti/insight/limite-pagame... Where it is detailed.
• tempodox 3y ago
  What a travesty.
• Scarblac 3y ago
  Sounds good to me. It's hard to imagine anyone actually legitimately paying amounts like that cash these days.
  • anononaut 3y ago
    Bootlicker mentality. Your inability to fathom the way others spend their currency shouldn't result in your support for arbitrary restrictions.
• helaoban 3y ago
  I am the Lord your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.
• apienx 3y ago
  “By 2016, only about 2% of the value transacted in Sweden was by cash, and only about 20% of retail transactions were in cash. Fewer than half of bank branches in the country conducted cash transactions.“ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cashless_society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cashless_society
• Horffupolde 3y ago
  [flagged]
• macNchz 3y ago
  Frustrating to see more laws like this that can readily throw a wrench in the day to day lives of regular working people, when money laundering and tax evasion at a scale multiple orders of magnitude larger than this is so shamelessly visible in the form of nine-figure real estate transactions, art auctions, and Caymans-based shell corporations.
  • mdrzn 3y ago
    Not being able to spend €3k cash is a wrench in the day to day lives of regular working people?
    • yakireev 3y ago
      €3k today is a price of an expensive laptop or an expensive bicycle (e.g. a bakfiets). €3k in ten years will be the price of a normal laptop or a normal bicycle. How not being able to buy a laptop or a bicycle without asking permission from third parties is a good thing?
      • paxys 3y ago
        The point isn't that nothing costs €3k, but that regular working people rarely have €3k physical cash on hand. Money goes into their bank accounts via direct deposit and they spend it digitally.
        • macNchz 3y ago
          In my opinion it's not unthinkable that an older person, someone without a bank account, or someone who works odd-jobs, might save cash in a drawer (regardless of whether that's advisable) for a long time for a larger purchase, like a used car bought in-person directly from someone else. Should we ban that?
          • JW_00000 3y ago
            Is it possible to have no bank account in the Netherlands? Don't you need one to pay taxes? (I think it's a right to have one and banks must offer a free option.)
• qwerty456127 3y ago
  Very sad news. Digital faschism is coming. I always withdraw money and use cash to pay wherever possible. I used to do the opposite throughout mthe most of my life until I understood what's that all about and what are we coming to. Coincidentally or not I have switched soon after watching the Black Mirror TV show :-) (I wouldn't say it was the only and direct influence - I thought about this subject before and after watching it but it impressed me). Fun fact: the very Netherlands have recently filmed another nice TV show about this (Arcadia). I always viewed the Netherlands as arguably the best nation in the world (I am not Dutch myself), sad to see they are going this way.
  • PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    > I have switched soon after watching the Black Mirror TV show Any particular episode?
    • qwerty456127 3y ago
      No, just watched all of them and took time to digest. By the way I would assume the very first episode probably is or was the most misunderstood but now I understand: attacks like depicted there are going to be 100% automated soon (if not already). Data gets collected, an AI automatically looks for vulnerable servers, steals the data, builds a victim profile, calls them from whatever a phone number (this has always been easy) with whatever a voice, tells them whatever optimal to manipulate them into whatever thing optimal to achieve a desired outcome (make them pay money, disclose a secret about someone or perform an act which will leads to desired impact on the society/economy).
• emptyfile 3y ago
  [dead]
• Lolaccount 3y ago
  Bad for construction!
• jimmychoozyx 3y ago
  When are we going to outlaw (as in actually enforce laws) on intelligence agencies honey-potting politicians as a strategy for foreign policy? Because any article that talks about Terrorism yet fails to account Jeffrey Epstein style honey-pot operations which implicated people such as Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, etc... is really meaningless to me. Justice does not exist when Laws are selectively enforced, and propagandized with "muh terrorism" or "think of teh children" by the same governments which are complicit in negligence towards massive crimes happening in the underworld of world government leaders.
• dukeofdoom 3y ago
  Without cash, you're giving the government the power to de-bank you and control what you can and can't spend your money on, even your ability to feed yourself. In Canada, during COVID Lockdowns they prevented the unvaccinated from getting on planes or trains, or buses. And required truckers to get the shot to drive their trucks. The truckers protested, so the government froze the protestor's accounts and many of those who that donated to them. So people started to give them cash so they can feed themselves and continue the protest. Literally without cash, these people would be on the brink of bankruptcy and starvation.
  • itsyaboi 3y ago
    Yes but did you know that me, a resident of <large_european_city> has no need for cash? In fact, no one in my immediate circle of acquaintances even carries cash anymore. We all simply use <popular_payment_app>. It's so easy and convenient! In fact, only criminals and various vaguely detestable elements of society insist on using cash. I know this because <large_media_conglomerate> and <government_agency> told me so. I'm not a bad person. I don't want my friends and coworkers to think I'm a bad person. Let's all just do what our surrogate parental figures say, it's really for the best.
• zapdrive 3y ago
  And then you wonder why the crypto keeps going up (I'm talking about long term trends). Many believe that the 2016/2017 spike in crypto coincided with the Indian demonetization of November 2016, when the Indian govt. declared all currency notes to be invalid.
• elric 3y ago
  That's been the case for years in Belgium. I like cash, and use it whenever I can. But I can't say this limit ever affected me in any way. Largest cash transaction I ever did wasn't even half that. You can't even get your hands on that much with ease anymore. ATMs are capped at less than that. Most (all?) banks will refuse to hand you that much cash. Unless you run a business which accepts a lot of cash, the odds of you having that much cash on hand are slim. And even then, how often do you make a payment that big? Of course, criminals don't care about these limits, so it's pretty much pointless.
  • cooper_ganglia 3y ago
    That’s flat out unacceptable. It’s your money. If you walk into a bank and ask for all of it, they should have enough on hand to give it all to you for a normal individuals account. It’s not the bank’s money or the governments money to decide where it gets stored or how it gets spent. You worked hours of your life to earn that money, years of your life that you traded for cash that the government says you can’t be trusted with because there’s a chance you might be a criminal. That is in no way, shape, or form the sign of a well-functioning, citizen-focused government. That’s a government that wants to track its citizen’s payments more closely.
    • JW_00000 3y ago
      Note that the restriction only applies to _cash_ money. If I have €100,000 in my bank account and do a transfer to another bank account, it happens for free and (almost, depending on the circumstances) instantly. If I go to the bank and ask for that €100,000 in cash, I won't get it. I personally consider this an okay restriction of my freedom if it means drug cartels and large-scale criminals can be caught.
    • elric 3y ago
      Why is it unacceptable? How does it impact your life?
• reacharavindh 3y ago
  The damage is already done by not enforcing "All merchants must accept payment by cash". By accepting that any shop can say "we dont accept cash", we have already lost that freedom to pay by a not easily trackable form. I wonder what more this law is hoping to achieve? Stopping that one guy who buys 10 laptops with a bag of cash? The merchants are already required by law to report any transactions above a certain amount made by cash.. so it is nothing new. If I sell my car on Marktplaats, I cannot accept cash? is that it?
• macinjosh 3y ago
  This is a disgusting infringement on human rights. Unbelievable.
  • Ylpertnodi 3y ago
    I do so enjoy the George Carlin 'You have no rights, you only have priveliges'.
• havblue 3y ago
  I was a juror for a divorce trial recently where the wife had a salary job while the husband spent their entire lives presumably accepting checks for contract work and cashing them without a bank account. So that portion of their joint income was to avoid the IRS and it of course made the settlement difficult because he didn't have any receipts for any of his work that was entirely done under the table. The plus side is that laws like this of course would prevent tax evasion. It would also mean you need to have a bank to make a living. While I'm not a fan of the creeping authoritarianism of a digital currency that's likely coming as well, it annoys me that so many people just mooch off of government services that the rest of us pay for.
  • mistrial9 3y ago
    in rural Ohio a hundred years ago, I read that a man built his house, worked as the manager of a bowling alley in town, and raised a family of four with that income alone. The modern condition is not like that. Is it government taxation, money lending, fines and fees, whatever else? Or is it more like a system of middle-men who expand theirs at the expense of yours, at every turn of the game? A vague complaint of "moochers" lacks context. There are those that are less able, those that have less to look for, and those that give in to lazy and selfish ways.. all of that, but in different social niches? There is no simple answer, but if you outlaw the path for the ordinary person to have rights, something is lost forever.
  • za3faran 3y ago
    People paying 30%-50% or more of their paychecks (not to mention VAT/sales tax) should stop and think about the enormous waste that goes on in their governments with respect to the money they're forced to give them. Islam has a 2.5% Zakat contribution amount for money, yet Islamic countries were very prosperous until colonization started post WWI, which continues to this day. Even today the Gulf states do not have these exorbitant taxes and they're doing quite well in the face of the capitalistic international financial system, even though they're heavily bitten by it. Give people the choice to pay 2.5% of their cash holdings and other wealth vs. 35%-50%+ of their income and it's easy to see what they'll choose. But it doesn't sit well with the greedy and wasteful governments, nor the law makers and lobbyists who design the laws with loopholes to be abused by certain people.
• dariosalvi78 3y ago
  In Italy the limit used to be as low as 1000€ https://www.axerve.com/approfondimenti/insight/limite-pagamento-contanti https://www.axerve.com/approfondimenti/insight/limite-pagame...
• 40four 3y ago
  It says there is a bill in the works. Nothing definite yet. If it does pass, that seems very odd to me, especially coming from the US. I noticed the policy on €10K or more is already similar to what we have here for dollars. Anything $10K in cash or more gets flagged, and you have to fill out a form.
  • Etheryte 3y ago
    I'm not sure if I would call it odd given there are similar laws in place in some EU countries.
• isaacremuant 3y ago
  My inmediate reaction is: "This is how we start. Watch it go down with time." and someone will say "there's already X amount". But 3000 is pretty trivial and inflation makes it worse as well. The end result seems to be the absolute desire of corporations and governments to have us control no actual money so they track everything while being absolutely non transparent themselves and can switch it off at their whim or, simply due to "system error", good luck going through the buteocratic process to get it back. When it stops being about convenience and becomes forced, it's always a danger.
• truthbtold 3y ago
  [flagged]
• thmsths 3y ago
  What I find really unfair in these situation is that the government is banning something but not really offering any alternative. There are plenty of transactions where using large amounts of cash is perfectly legitimate and the best option. What is the Dutch government suggesting here? Personal Checks have the obvious issue that the issuer can just default on them long after they have received the good or service. Cashiers checks solve that problem but you have to pay a fee of a few dozens euros/dollars to get them and they are cumbersome to get (and you can't change the amount if you need to). Wire transfers suffer from the same problem basically. Credit/Debit cards are controlled by private entities and being able to receive payment from them is hard and costly to setup. So what's the alternative to cash for payments over 3k?
  • cwmma 3y ago
    Europe has a working system of direct bank transfers that are used all the time by most everyone. Europeans basically never use checks. A lot of Americans here are really confused because America does not have this infrastructure but it exists in Europe and people already use it all the time.
    • thmsths 3y ago
      I am European too and while we have better payment systems than in the US it's far from perfect. If you're referring to a SEPA transfer it is at least an order of magnitude more friction than handing over cash to someone.
      • gattilorenz 3y ago
        In NL the iDeal system and Tikkie have -according to me- less friction than cash, and surely not for any large amount if you are on the receiving side (no need to have any change, money won’t be fake, you won’t have to deposit it, you can request a specific amount or let it open for the other person). Here’s some info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropayment#Tikkie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropayment#Tikkie They’re used by people of all age, as far as I can tell; the only time I witnessed a problem with it, was when a ~50 year old man had to pay me 600€ for stuff he bought, and I ended up having to take cash. Worth noting that person who paid me is a house painter, a job with a great potential for being paid cash to evade taxes to begin with…
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• declan_roberts 3y ago
  How are we not more critical of credit card companies for pushing this? They take 3% of the transaction. Of course they have a vested interest in eliminating cash.
• paxys 3y ago
  The USD $100 note was introduced in 1914, and at that time was equivalent to several months' wages for an average citizen. If currency note denominations were to keep up with inflation, today the Fed would be printing $3000 bills. Yet $100 is still all that we have, effectively making cash transactions less and less feasible every year.
• fit2rule 3y ago
  [dead]
• codeptualize 3y ago
  We are turning into a narco state, and that largely runs on cash. I don't think the measures are great or will do much, but the fact that they try to do something about it is understandable. Also I really don't care about cash, I never use cash. I personally think they should just legalize and regulate a lot of the drugs which would be much more effective. People use drugs anyway, they generally do it in a safe way, it makes no sense to keep it illegal, it leaves the whole market to crime. Legalize, regulate, and charge fat taxes. The crime problems are a symptom of our ridiculous drug laws. If we don't solve the root issue, measures like these will not change anything.
• throwaway9870 3y ago
  I don't like this. I recently sold some networking equipment to somebody for a bit more than this amount and asked for cash. Made the whole transaction simple. Things like this just keep taking power from the people and moving it into the government and private companies.
• piuantiderp 3y ago
  So what, now you need to pay 2% every single time?
• bowsamic 3y ago
  It's still very common here in Germany to make large payments by cash because people feel that it's "safer"
• nmilo 3y ago
  Curious because I've never done it, how do people buy used cars off classifieds other than with cash? Checks can bounce, e-transfers can be reversed, etc. Seems any method other than cash is very susceptible to scams.
  • JW_00000 3y ago
    Just scan a QR code. The Netherlands has iDeal and Tikkie; Belgium has Payconiq; not sure about other European countries.
  • porkbeer 3y ago
    Bought and sold dozens of cars. Cash is always preferred, but have also met people at their bank to do the transaction. Checks, venmo, paypal, money orders are all fraught with risk.
• donbatman 3y ago
  It's amazing how many Europeans love letting their governments all up in their business. It's my money. I earned it. I already paid taxes on it. I should be able to spend it however I want.
• dang 3y ago
  We have deep respect for other languages but HN is an English language site, so the articles posted here need to be in English. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20english-language%20site&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
  • sweetrobot2k 3y ago
    [dead]
  • janandonly 3y ago
    I apologize for crossing this rule, but I head to weigh this against the rule that asks for original sources. A google-translate link would not do, I guessed? I couldn't find an NLTimes article (yet) since this isn't enshrined into law.
  • dmarchand90 3y ago
    How important is this rule really? Particularly when the title gives the main message. I ask because auto translation is almost perfect for at least all the European languages. I agree maybe there should be a bias towards English but this seems a reasonable exception here
    • lost_tourist 3y ago
      It's very important for proper understanding of such things as translation is currently really not up to HN quality expectations just yet. Maybe in the future as AI gets better at it
      • dmarchand90 3y ago
        For me this translation is extremely easy to understand: What is the maximum amount I can pay in cash? At this time, you may pay for all purchases in cash. For cash purchases above € 10,000, the seller must conduct a customer due diligence. But not all sellers accept cash. The cabinet is working on a bill to ban cash payments from € 3,000. Pay for purchases in cash At this time, you may pay for all purchases in cash. It doesn't matter how high the amount is. A seller can decide not to accept cash above a certain amount. Or not accepting cash at all . Customer research for purchases above € 10,000 Do you make a purchase that costs more than € 10,000 and do you pay in cash? Then the seller must conduct a customer due diligence . This check is mandatory to prevent money laundering and terrorist financing. Bill cash payments up to € 3,000 A bill is being drafted to ban cash payments from €3,000 . This applies to all buyers and sellers of goods. When the new law comes into effect, you may no longer pay for purchases from € 3,000 in cash.
• phanimahesh 3y ago
  In India, any transactions over 50000 INR (about 555 EUR) are discouraged in cash, and if necessary, the payer must provide their PAN card. PAN is the tax identification number in India. It is on the recepient to report these transactions. It is not illegal though, and you can in fact pay arbitrary amounts of cash for instance at hospitals or jewellery stores, with PAN. I am okay with this oversight, though I'm not too happy about the middlemen. I can't think of any legitimate usecases where one wouldn't want to share PAN, unless they are underreporting income and evading taxes. While I'm often unhappy with how my tax money gets spent, I still begrudgingly pay my taxes and have no sympathy for black money. We also have instant and free transfers via UPI, and I can transfer any amount, even 1 INR (Approx 1 cent EUR) to anyone. I make about a dozen upi transactions everyday, for practically everything. Roadside snacks to in mall purchases. This further reduces the need for carrying cash. There are only a few holdouts, such as bus tickets purchased on the spot, or the ocassional auto rikshaws that demand cash. Even foriegn tourists now can "pay lik an Indian", with upi, to borrow marketing slogans from the airport adverts. Transacting large amounts in cash(banknotes) is going to become increasingly difficult across the world, for better or worse.
• melenaos 3y ago
  In Greece it's 500 euros!
• figassis 3y ago
  These decisions reek of ignorance. Banking is not as frictionless as people seem to think. Many law abiding people have issues opening bank accounts, maybe they're immigrants, maybe their name fuzzy matches someone on the ofac list, maybe their bank decided that that last $10000 payment was unusual for this customer and blocked their account and started asking for documents that they might not have in a timely manner, like utility bill (but you're living with a friend), or a credit card statement (but banks won't approve of one for you because you have no way to be grandfathered in), or you have your money on SVB and it blew up and you had to withdraw/borrow cash to make payroll (transferring would take too long and might fail). There is so much mindless automation that thinks it's correct, and so many banking industry employees that can only tell you "well, the system said...", that I fear this will break many people's lives. Also remember that people really do live very different lives that are perfectly legal, that's what freedom is. This is deciding to make conformity into the law. Finally, my greatest fear is that this (and many distopian policies I've seen recently from Europe and the US) is creating the justification that many authoritarian regimes (esp. in Africa) have always hoped for to irreversibly break democracy and throw human rights out the window. I know we should be able to solve our own issues, but...we haven't, and this will realistically make it almost impossible to do now.
• SkyPuncher 3y ago
  Commenting from a US perspective, where we don't have this limit. IMO, the only time this causes issue is when transacting private-to-private sales of big ticket items. Most likely something with a title (cars, boats, ATVs, trailers, etc, etc). I really despise having to bring thousands of dollars of cash to buy a vehicle, but right now there just isn't a better way to do it. Sign the title, exchange the cash, and it's essentially a 100% guarantee the transaction works. With a limit like this you need an arbitrator. Right now, there simply isn't a good way to do that.
• ulfw 3y ago
  So cash is not legal tender then.
• wellthisisgreat 3y ago
  anti-humanist blight on society scumbags that's the only way to describe people who come up with those laws
• DavideNL 3y ago
  It’s interesting to see people’s (mostly negative) comments, without anyone seemingly realizing any of the details behind it / the nuances / situation that lead to this decision. Most people apparently just respond to the first emotion that comes up…
  • pjc50 3y ago
    Cultural differences, as well. People have different "threat models", usually based on historical incidents in their country. Which become embedded as political "traumas". Extreme distrust of the government, especially the American distrust of federal vs state government, doesn't really make sense in many European countries. Especially when the Netherlands is a constitutional monarchy. The most pro-cash anti-surveillance Europeans are Germany and Austria (traumas of hyperinflation, Nazis, and the Stasi).
• NoNameHaveI 3y ago
  So, fun fact, in the USA state of Illinois , cannabis dispensaries are cash only. This is probably because cannabis is still illegal at the federal level. Of course, being such a potentially lucrative target for thieves, each dispensary has security personnel who will only grant admission after ID is shown. Interestingly, every one I have seen has an ATM on site.
  • ghaff 3y ago
    In MA, they'll take debit for a fairly small transaction fee. I don't think they did initially when they started opening up. >Of course, being such a potentially lucrative target for thieves, each dispensary has security personnel who will only grant admission after ID is shown. I assume the state law just doesn't allow anyone under 21 to be admitted.
    • NoNameHaveI 3y ago
      I want to say yes, that you must be over 21, but I am not certain. I do know that you can purchase with out of state ID, but you have a lower limit as to how much you can buy than if you are an Illinois resident. A friend is a regular customer and he shared that he qualified for a discount after purchasing so much over time. Personally, I rarely use cash much. I actually forgot the PIN to my debit card. Had the same $20 in my billfold for months.