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Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites
- jarym 3y agoWere they aliens? Well yes, there was no US Passports recovered from the sites.
- whycome 3y agoCongress holds hearing about claims US government has UFO evidence
- jmclnx 3y agoGlad to hear that, not like there is nothing else important happening in the US. What next, hearings on Big Foot :)
- mirpetri 3y agoRed herring
- themagician 3y agoNot really. There is good evidence that sightings of Big Foot are actually linked to the same department responsible for dealing with extraterrestrials on earth.
- EA-3167 3y agoWhy would you not link to that "good evidence" to support your claim?
- themagician 3y agoThe hair samples with "non-earth origin" DNA, the fact that the FBI investigation suddenly got shut down and two of the agents literally disappeared. The countless whistleblowers over the decades that linked Big Foot to the super solider program. Even David Grush says it's more likely than not linked.
- doodlebugging 3y agoWhat is non-earth origin DNA that you mention in your reply to another post? How would you know it was not from earth? Is it as simple as there being no evidence of any contamination by hair colorants, straighteners, shampoos, or any products sold by Proctor and Gamble? I too would like to see actual links to any evidence or documentation of these events and products so I can see for myself. Bigfoot is almost a cottage industry and is definitely a tourist bait in some areas.
- themagician 3y agoI would start with the FBI files from the 70's and go from there. That's where it all begins. Apparently the hair had a structure that was not carbon based… the same kind of structure that Grusch talks about from the spaceship that crashed in Italy in 1933 which was covered up by the Five Eyes and the Vatican. Vatican vault apparently has samples as well.
- mcpackieh 3y ago> Vatican vault apparently has samples as well. Oh, the Vatican is involved! Of course they are, foolish me for not expecting it. No doubt the Knights Templar are somehow mixed up with this as well. It all seems very diabolical; tell me more, Abulafia.
- themagician 3y agoThat's what the guy who just testified in front of Congress claims, not me.
- mcpackieh 3y agoOkay well he's tripping all the kook breakers, so you might want to think twice about the credibility of his testimony.
- doodlebugging 3y agoI was hoping you would have live links to some supporting data. I did stumble into an article about an Italian crash in 1933 that is probably the support for your Vatican assertion though nothing that I read mentioned anything about a Bigfoot or a hair that wasn't from earth. It referenced Italian archives from a "secretive" unit of Mussolini's military that supposedly picked up the pieces of something that crashed and stashed them away for study. Those parts were supposed to have been the inspiration for one of the Italians who studied them to develop the first jet engine and some plans for a circular, jet-powered craft that to me sounded like it had lots of problems engineered into it so it was never gonna work. There was a lot in there to absorb involving documentation sent to the Nazis and post-war transfer of the pieces to the US. Anyway, a link to something about the hair that isn't carbon-based so it can't be from around here would be great since you brought up that subject. It's still a "tits or GTFO" place here on the intertubes. Thanks, pardner.
- whycome 3y agoThe hearing is utterly bizarre and surreal. Like theater but everyone is keeping a straight face. (also, 'Mrs. Luna' is asking questions and her character name seems too on-the-nose.) Former commander says he didn't believe in UFOs and defends himself with "I never watched history channel or anything like that" -- as though that's a source for UFOs rather than...history.
- mentalpiracy 3y agoThe history channel stopped showing history content years ago, it’s been crank ufo/ancient aliens bullshit and crappy reality tv for at least a decade
- inkcapmushroom 3y ago>as though that's a source for UFOs rather than...history Maybe you haven't watched the History Channel recently, but there is indeed a lot of stuff about aliens on there. Possibly more stuff about aliens than about actual history.
- anigbrowl 3y agoThis is such an ancient meme that it has entries in normal dictionaries. https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/ancient-aliens/ https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/ancient-aliens/
- mcpackieh 3y agoCheck out the History Channel's schedule today. Not a cherry-picked day, just a normal schedule for them: https://www.history.com/schedule https://www.history.com/schedule That's four hours of aliens nonsense, four hours of drug themed history documentaries (probably the same target demographic as the aliens stuff.) An hour of christian prophesy and preaching, 12 hours of reality TV, and some infomercials to make up the difference. Is it any wonder that an ostensibly serious man such as a military commander thinks that the History Channel is trash? I'd be concerned if he didn't.
- icedchai 3y agoIt actually is. The show "Ancient Aliens" has been around for almost 15 years!
- monkeynotes 3y agoI don't think any military captains, and colonels will be testifying on oath to the existence of Bigfoot in front of Congress. So no, that's not next. What's actually happening is pretty crazy and anyone who has a small amount of curiosity should give it some consideration. It seems foolish just to dismiss this with a scoff.
- philwelch 3y agoMilitary captains and colonels have engaged in psyops and deceptions as long as there have been captains and colonels.
- themagician 3y agoIt might be if more details about the super solider program are leaked and they can be linked to non-earth origin DNA. I mean, for christ's sake there are literal hair samples.
- coding123 3y agoWhat is happening? Seriously we already know about Hunter Biden. What is happening today that wasn't happening yesterday that you think this is actually an attention distraction?
- jmclnx 3y agoClimate Change, the heat wave in the southwest, malaria in Texas and FL, extremely high ocean temps around FL and the East Coast. Need any more ?
- coding123 3y agoThose are all things everyone is paying attention to. A small 2 hour meeting on UFOs are not allowed? There were 138 congressional hearings on climate change in 2022 alone. https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/on-the-hill-in-2022-a-breakdown-of-climate-energy-and-environmental-congressional-hearings https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/on-the-hill-in-2022-a-bre... https://www.eesi.org/files/EESI_s_2022_Climate,_Environmental,_and_Energy_Congressional_Hearing_Tracker.pdf https://www.eesi.org/files/EESI_s_2022_Climate,_Environmenta...
- jmclnx 3y agoNo more then a meeting on Big Foot :) Seems Congress is doing all it can to ignore Issues that really need to be fixed. >There were 138 congressional hearings on climate change in 2022 alone. And what came of this ? Just denial, finger pointing and "fund raisers" to get more bribes from the fossil fuel industry :)
- coding123 3y agoIf they're going to be unable to come to consensus on it, then fine, maybe we should have 0 climate hearings this year. Maybe instead spend ALL YEAR on the UFO topic until someone comes forward with crashed saucers and guts. If we find out they ARE here, maybe they can help with the climate?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- open-paren 3y agodupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36877774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36877774
- whycome 3y agoWeird with that many comments and votes that its on like page 5 of HN and this one quickly shot to front page. Maybe @dang can combine them in a hurry.
- ToValueFunfetti 3y agoI imagine HN's algo punishes high comment/vote ratio submissions because they tend to be controversial.
- anigbrowl 3y agoIt does and it's quite annoying, given that controversy is often a source of insight. I think this guy is probably BSing and that these hearings are a sideshow, but I'm still interested in the nuggets that come out of these discussions and don't mind they fall short of being perfect examples of discourse.
- gs17 3y agoIt does, the superconductor thread from yesterday had the same issue.
- candiddevmike 3y agoIn theory, Congress should already know about the existence or not existence of aliens/UFOs, so what's the point here? To show that congress isn't being informed?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Timon3 3y agoA whistleblower is alleging that information has been kept from Congress. Why do you expect Congress to know that information?
- candiddevmike 3y agoThe various congressional committees are supposed to know everything the federal government is doing so they can provide oversight, AFAIK. Something big like UFOs should have come up I'd imagine
- mcpackieh 3y agoSupposed to know is not the same as know. If they learn from a whistleblower that a program exists and has been kept secret from them, the people that are supposed to know about it, what would you have them do? Publicly investigate the claims, right? That's what they're doing.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- themagician 3y agoBecause that whistleblower was paid to make those allegations by the DoD.
- madspindel 3y agoWhat evidence do you have to support that claim?
- AndrewKemendo 3y agoFor additional context, the 14N (Air Force Intelligence officers) community broadly does not support this person or his claims. Take that for what it's worth
- caesil 3y agoCan you explain why?
- AndrewKemendo 3y agoWell, for one, he seems to be pretty liberal with the truth in a way that many spooks are good at. For example he claims: > at the GS-15 civilian level, which is the military equivalent of a full-bird colonel I was previously both a Major and later NH-IV (which in my case had equivalency with GS-15-10)and the only people making this claim would be ones that want to inflate their own importance. They are completely different legally and fall under different legal codes - namely the GS system is not subject to UCMJ nor can they make certain legal decisions that an O6 can make and has a completely different promotion and evaluation. He wants to portray himself as a battle hardened commander when he’s just another run of the mill PowerPoint slinger.
- wil421 3y agoCan’t say for that for the intelligence community, but UFO people on podcasts claim his claims are being fed to him and are likely psyops misdirections. He also has no direct knowledge it’s all stuff he heard from other people in the government.
- JohnBooty 3y agoWell, I've always thought that cloaking your secret government program in kooky-sounding UFO stuff might be a great way to keep your program hidden. Anybody uncovering evidence of your program will likely not be taken seriously, because UFOs. And certainly, "a government lies and has secrets" ranks well above "aliens are in our skies" in terms of likelyhood. Occam's Razor and all. But, I don't know if this sounds like a psyop to me. One, Grush says that many (dozens?) of people (whose names he has provided to the whistleblower office) spoke to him about these alleged programs. Dozens or people push this psyop... why? The government wants to convince people that it is... even shadier than we thoughts? Or is this some thing they cooked up to ensnare Grusch specifically? Is our government secretive and scary? Oh yeah. But if this is a psyop then I don't see how it helps them.
- exitb 3y agoWe wouldn't happen to be invading Iran today, would we?
- mcpackieh 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvjgIxuVdo4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvjgIxuVdo4 (RIP Trevor Moore.)
- IAmGraydon 3y agoFocus your attention on the pendulum.
- lockhouse 3y agoMy thoughts exactly, what are they attempting to distract us from. I think it’s all the Hunter Biden stuff: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/hunter-biden-expected-plead-guilty-criminal-tax-case-rcna96232 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/hunter-b...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jakeinspace 3y agoWhy would a bunch of republicans want to distract from something they’ve been desperately trying to use as an attack on Biden for years? This is a bipartisan hearing.
- lockhouse 3y agoThe Biden family’s corruption is so blatant and brazen, that if they really wanted to drag him through the mud they would. I’m sure there’s a lot of this kind of corruption going on with Republicans in Congress as well so there’s a sort of mutually assured destruction protecting all of them.
- tonfreed 3y agoBecause it would shine a light on their own corruption. This isn't a problem with one party, the entire establishment is rotten
- coding123 3y agoanyone have a live feed that works?
- madspindel 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ7Dw-739VY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ7Dw-739VY
- DoreenMichele 3y agoThe whistleblower former intelligence official David Grusch says he faced “very brutal and very unfortunate” retaliation after he went public with his allegations. Intelligence personnel swear to keep their mouths shut. He has no real evidence and no real compelling reason that I'm seeing for coming forward. What did he expect?
- realce 3y ago> What did he expect? Why this cynical attitude? Perhaps he did expect it and he is now clearly and publicly stating it in a congressional record so something might be done about other whistleblowers.
- bostonsre 3y agoThey take an oath to serve the United States. If they notice illegal activity that can't be resolved through the chain of command, they have a responsibility to speak up and resolve it through being a whistle blower. We also don't know what evidence he has. It could be bullshit or it could be actual evidence but people on hacker news won't know the truth.
- ilaksh 3y agoNot all of them have jobs involving keeping secrets. Some involve disinformation.
- srvmshr 3y agoIn theory, maybe possible. But honest-to-god critical thinking/sincere question: given that multiple countries have had satellites, deep space observation methods, giant telescopes etc how is that alien ingress have never been noticed? Aliens couldn't have known that US/UK were the preferred destinations - countries with large surface areas like Australia, Russia, Brazil and India don't report such activities in general. Why is that UFOs are coming up as pop culture topic just now in last few decades - and no concerted & corroborative evidence exists from medieval or prehistoric times (apart from some cave paintings where imaginations have been at play of superior beings). Human race always had a creative tone to recording our history - we borrow philosophy, allude to existence of supernatural, and of God almighty. When it is about non-planetary life, definitive evidence _must_ exist all over the planet that we were visited - not just one country. Or am I being too cynical?
- coding123 3y agoThe human ability to deny to others and oneself is stronger than we think. There's a vast set of people that saw them in Phoenix, astronauts, there's evidence in many places that we tend to ignore. I've met Travis Walton. He is one of the most genuine people I have ever met. We're just not listening (some people are but most are not capable of hearing it).
- srvmshr 3y agoI understand. But out of curiosity: why is there no material evidence across the different civilizations. Surely all of humanity couldn't be duping themselves and only US is speaking up in 21st century. I am _not_ a non-believer. It is just the lack of scientific historicity and diversity of evidence that bothers me. I cannot reconcile that mountain of contradiction with the current testimony. It is one Congressional account of definitive existence, versus the absence of conclusive proof or material evidence anywhere else.
- Ancapistani 3y ago> public narrative of accounts from pre-modern times There are. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over... Now, none of them are as clear and objective as "A being that was obvious not human spoke to me and told me about themselves. They are ..." - but that doesn't mean we don't have a ton of incidents reported over the centuries.
- instagraham 3y agoFrom the BBC story: Rep Nancy Mace, a North Carolina Republican, tried to get Grusch to elaborate on what he knew about non-terrestrial bodies. She asks him if "biologics" were recovered from any crashed crafts. Referencing his previous media interviews, Grusch responds that "biologics came with some of these recoveries". Were they human or non-human? Mace asks. "Non-human, and that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the programme I talked to," Grusch responds.ike this."
- TigeriusKirk 3y agoIf this is true (huge gigantic "if"), then all information on this topic should be immediately declassified. It is unacceptable to keep the biggest discovery in the history of the human race from the public. There is no justification for it.
- zmgsabst 3y agoBird poop on a crashed drone would also be “non-human biologics” on a “recovered crash”.
- instagraham 3y agoWould that be worth reporting in Congress? Believing so suggests there's a purpose to deliberately wasting everyone's time in such a hearing. Or a simpler answer, Grusch is plain lying. But somehow, the stakes seem pretty high for him to do so here, unless he's confident of the whistleblower book money he could someday make off of this.
- frankfrankfrank 3y ago[dead]
- jmclnx 3y agolast I heard, cats, dogs, deer, wolfs, ants, birds and many other creatures have non-human biologics
- Eji1700 3y agoThis whole thing is just making me have less and less faith in society. There's no fucking way this is remotely true, but everywhere I look, not matter the community, there's so much "what if" nonsense that reeks of the same ignorance those people screamed about when that was the argument for COVID conspiracies. The energy required to travel through space is obscene. The difficulty of traveling through space is obscene. Finding ANYTHING in space is obscene. IF somehow all of this was done, then the idea it's been kept a secret when there's soooo many ways of tracking and viewing these things is stupid (especially when you consider how much energy would need to be expended). This is also assuming that for some reason they want to remain secret? The whole thing is just so on it's face bs, but people so desperately want to believe they'll ignore all evidence. I can understand that, but I HATE the hypocrisy on display from those who are routinely critical of others for having such gaps in their logic.
- drukenemo 3y agoYou comment sound like a “know-it-all”. We don’t know what these crafts are, where they are from and how they came here. A little humble attitude is more aligned with reality: there’s so much we don’t know.
- Eji1700 3y agoMy comment is based on the current understanding of physics and the odds of some creature capable of defying that being able to even be hidden. I would love for us to find evidence of life in the universe which is why I despise this charade which takes attention away from the scientists who are actually trying to do so. But apparently SETI is in on it too or some other nonsense.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y agoI would suggest you consider the possibility that the current understanding of physics a thousand years from now will look very different from how it looks today. Even more so a million years from now. The reality is that we're not a particularly intelligent species - as shown by the fact that we're currently terraforming our own planet to make it less hospitable. Our culture may well be extinct within a century. So I think it's optimistic to believe that we as a species have much of a clue about anything at all. Now put that in the context of an extremely old universe, and it's not hard to understand that we're unlikely to be the smartest people in the room. FWIW I'm agnostic about UFOs. The problem is that they conflate two issues - aerial phenomena, and alien visitation. There's no reason those should be connected. Or that the latter would inevitably be responsible for the former. The scientific thing to do is to collect evidence of the former before assuming the latter.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago> But after more than two and half hours of testimony, it’s probably fair to say exactly what is now known that was previously unknown, is not known. BBC with the appropriate level of snark for the continual lack of details and evidence.
- sockaddr 3y agoI don’t usually like to make evaluations like this but Grusch’s demeanor and the way he responds to questions sets off my BS detector big time. I to want to believe just as much as anyone else here, but I can’t take this guy seriously.
- webmobdev 3y agoProbably Russians testing remote-controlled drones with animals in them.
- frankfrankfrank 3y ago[dead]
- sidcool 3y agoI don't think humans have had contact with extra terrestrials yet. This is just conspiracies fuelling debates.
- lusus_naturae 3y agoIt is irresponsible to simply call this "hiding". It is more reasonable to assume this is psyops by an adversary, and as such releasing information without doing due diligence is just causing harm. Overall, if such events are true I wonder what effect this will have on politics driven by religion-based agendas (many who drive such agenda are not even pious or adherents in any form of the word). Maybe this is finally bring an end to religion-driven politics.
- OhioMan2943 3y agoIf it is a psyop by an adversary why hasn't it been called out as one yet? It would be the easiest counter and the government continually calls out China on its use of TikTok as a cultural weapon with little to no consequences.
- enterprise_cog 3y agoIf you need any further proof this country has a hard time innovating anymore, this UFO story push that coincides with the start of another Cold War is a great example. I remember listening to Art Bell as a kid, fascinated with the stories of aliens, MIB, military coverups, etc… with former military men telling a lot of the stories. Then I read Carl Sagan and realized how silly it all was. Then I learned how the government lies about so much. How they use current and former military and intelligence to further those lies. Shame so many still buy into this at all. Highly suggest reading a demon haunted world if you haven’t. It makes these claims pure comedy.
- waterheater 3y agoIndeed, the military was already seeding misinformation around UFOs in the 1950s: > When the Air Force finally made Special Report #14 public in October 1955, it was claimed that the report scientifically proved that UFOs did not exist. Critics of this claim note that the report actually proved that the "unknowns" were distinctly different from the "knowns" at a very high statistical significance level. The Air Force also incorrectly claimed that only 3% of the cases studied were unknowns, instead of the actual 22%. They further claimed that the residual 3% would probably disappear if more complete data were available. Critics counter that this ignored the fact that the analysts had already thrown such cases into the category of "insufficient information", whereas both "knowns" and "unknowns" were deemed to have sufficient information to make a determination. Also, the "unknowns" tended to represent the higher quality cases, q.e. reports that already had better information and witnesses. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book] That said, this misinformation only highlights that the Air Force was trying to minimize UFOs, not increase their presence in the public consciousness.
- bell-cot 3y ago"The American public has a right to learn about..." Reaction I: The concept/prospect of space aliens really mashes a lot of people's emotional buttons. And "having a right to learn about" is how such strong emotions are usually articulated. Reaction II: So long as $Potential_Enemy_Nation is a bit unsure about whether you are really lying, about having a bunch of from-1000-years-in-the-future technology hidden away, that you could suddenly start using (against them) if sufficiently motivated...that's pretty cheap deterrence, eh?
- applebutter 3y agoHe testified to not seeing the bodies of the "pilots" and being able to talk about the spacecraft "behind closed doors". How people believe this shit will always be amazing to me.
- SgtBaker 3y agoImagine getting a congressional hearing and coming in with "never saw anything.. no aliens nor their crafts, just a bunch of rumors which I can't repeat here, soz all" That was a complete waste of everyones time.
- tamimio 3y agoLet me guess, it’s a message for the “enemies” that we have some cool aliens technology so better not to mess with us!! At least be creating..
- waterheater 3y agoThe general response in this discussion is skeptical, and I can understand the hesitation to broach the UFO/UAP topic, particularly when the topic has been vilified for literally decades. However, we are now in a legitimately different era of discussion of these topics, and you have to be willing to open your mind to the idea that these efforts are legitimate. The bipartisanship at the hearing is to be commended, and the national security angle cannot be overstated. All three witnesses believe these UAP are genuine national security threats because they possess flight capabilities far exceeding anything beyond what we have. These UAP were documented on multiple military sensor platforms, some of which are still classified. You must realize the USG has been and is engaged in an active disinformation campaign to deny existence of UAP, even to Congress. For example, multiple Subcommittee members mentioned that they wanted to meet in a SCIF with Grusch to receive a classified briefing but could not. A direct quote from the hearing: "Just so that the press knows and the people know, we [members of the Subcommittee] were even denied access to a classified briefing in a SCIF due to the amount of hoops we had to jump through to grant temporary clearance to witness Grusch, who has knowledge of classified information." Additionally, multiple members of Congress were initially denied access to data and personnel related to a UAP incident reported at Eglin AFB and in the end only received a portion of what was sought. Clear attempts to prevent elected officials from merely accessing relevant information is a genuine threat to national security because the military serves the people, not the other way around. All three witnesses are trained and decorated military service members, each of which have since left the military. Their situational awareness and observational abilities are much better than you or me, particularly since we haven't been explicitly trained on such while they have. Additionally, Grusch is documented to have worked in both the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) and National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA), two sensitive branches of the military intelligence community. As far as I'm aware, the NRO ships and provides military sensing platforms, and the NGA performs analysis from many different military data streams, including the NRO. Grusch even said in his opening statement that, at the NGA, he had a hand in making the Presidential Daily Briefing. One commenter here says it's "more reasonable to assume this is psyops by an adversary", which is, by definition, a conspiracy theory, given that the commenter has no evidence of such occurring and would prefer to live in a world where three former US military service members are coerced to commit perjury to Congress about something which doesn't actually exist. Moreover, if an adversarial nation possesses craft with the capabilities described by the three witnesses, drawing any attention, even through an active disinformation campaign, to that strategic advantage is a clear breach of operational security with no clear, tangible benefit. The preponderance of evidence in support of the existence of UAP should be overwhelming unless you've made the choice to not accept the premise: that intelligent life beyond humanity exists. Here's a link to the full hearing recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ7Dw-739VY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ7Dw-739VY
- MikeTheRocker 3y agoI don't know what to make of this. It just seems so incredibly implausibly that extraterrestrials would have the technology or motive to come to Earth without widespread detection.
- beaned 3y agoRight, like what would be their motivation for exclusively interacting with governments rather than, say, landing in Times Square? I guess a counter thought would be that they haven't actually tried to interact with anyone at all, maybe only observe, but the armed forces/governments are the only element of our species with the ability to detect and retrieve them when they make mistakes.
- neuronic 3y agoBut they never make mistakes above NYC or Berlin, or anywhere with a bunch of social media + phone users around. Just somewhere in the desert conveniently close to AFBs and other restricted areas.
- beaned 3y agoA good point. A couple thoughts here might be: 1. They make exceptionally few mistakes overall anyway; 2. Perhaps it is the interaction between armed force technology and their vehicles which creates problems for them (whether intentional or not from our side); 3. The majority of our land surface area is not inhabited at any given moment. Maybe these drones, or whatever they are, do not even care about life here, and are not particularly attracted to cities or people, and are statistically more likely to fail out of reach of most populated areas just because that's what our geographic distribution is like.
- operatingthetan 3y agoMaybe our devices are easily hacked by their technology. E.g. the phones just don't see them or images of craft are removed from photos.
- Ancalagon 3y agoIt’s a good call out - the ability of the government to keep secrets across decades. But - tinfoil hat time - have they not demonstrated their ability to do this wrt the knowledge around nuclear weapons? Edit: and considering the claimed abilities of UAP, might those technologies be on par (in terms of military might) with the technology behind nuclear weapons? Also, that bit about a spaceship needing a biological pilot was kind of dumb. I don’t know how you can see the advances in AI these days and not be able to extrapolate an advanced space faring species not needing a biological pilot on their spaceship.
- mhh__ 3y agoA lot of what is known about the T-U design is because of some clever social engineering. I think I've only ever seen one quantitative book that deals with the minutiae of a nuclear bomb (in a book about explosives, will link it)
- Ancalagon 3y agoThose designs aren’t even modern though are they? Plus there’s a whole host of logistics and operations knowledge at scale around nuclear weapons that are highly classified and not known.
- shepardrtc 3y agoThey said nothing about a pilot. He said they found "biologics". Doesn't mean it was a pilot.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- blipvert 3y agoProbably just means that a drone hit a cow.
- potench 3y ago> “I don’t want to oversimplify it, but how are you going to fly one [spaceship]? You got to have somebody in it. That seems to be pretty simple,” Burchett said. “Simple” is not the word I’d use to describe this conclusion.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y agoSnowden spent quite a bit of time looking for UFO stuff since he had access to almost everything classified and never found any evidence. I’m not saying this whistleblower is definitely lying, but if anyone was capable and willing to bring this forward with receipts, Snowden would’ve done so.
- ryanSrich 3y agoThat proves nothing though. US Government data is so siloed it’s possible Snowden would not have access to UFO info even if he had access to essentially everything the NSA had access to.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago> US Government data is so siloed The classified stuff wasn’t really that siloed. He had access to everything CIA, DIA, NSA, etc. He talked about this in his book. Searching for evidence of aliens was one of the first things he did when he got access.
- matrix12 3y agoAnyone who has worked at the fort can assure you that's not how it works...
- nvy 3y agoDidn't he have a special PRIVACC designation that allowed him to bypass traditional "need to know" silo boundaries, under the auspices of being a sysadmin or whatever?
- LapsangGuzzler 3y agoHe leaked documents from British and Australian intelligence according to his wiki page, so he obviously had broad access. I’m paraphrasing, but he’s specifically talked in interviews that he had access to almost everything.
- lockhouse 3y agoThis whole thing smells like a distraction from something else brewing.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- joe__f 3y agoEnd of the Gulf Stream?
- runnr_az 3y agoLet’s see some evidence?
- yabones 3y agoTechnically, “non-human” bodies and technology that can “turn us into a charcoal briquette” precisely describes Laika of Sputnik II fame. We also did have flying saucers in the 50s, but they kind of sucked compared to helicopters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar
- beambot 3y agoEven a personal "drone" flying saucer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_VZ-1_Pawnee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_VZ-1_Pawnee
- 128bytes 3y agoSo a possibly feasible explanation is that there has been a bunch of animal testing by foreign defence initiatives that has crashed on US soil?
- jonplackett 3y agoIf they did reverse engineer these UFOs, they must have kept it very secret from the NASA SLS team, and EVERYONE at Boeing. If they secretly gave it all to spaceX then maybe we get a _slightly_ compelling argument…
- shepardrtc 3y agoThey most likely haven't been able to reverse engineer much, if anything. But I suspect a profit motive was part of keeping it secret. If everyone knows, then other companies will compete to look at the materials and the contractors could lose out on a lot of money.
- jonplackett 3y agoThis makes no sense to me. People don’t invent an amazing thing and then keep it secret to make a profit. they patent it and make a product or license it. I am totally willing to believe they managed to keep something secret. Hell if it’s true it means they actually did a pretty shit job because everyone knows the word ‘Roswell’ But I don’t buy that after 50 years they haven’t made a single useful thing out of what they found. Where’s my flying saucer damn it? Where’s some new amazing power source that any craft getting here must have been using?
- icedchai 3y agoMaybe they did make something useful from it. How would we know? Have you read "The Day After Roswell"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After_Roswell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After_Roswell (Not saying I believe any of it.)
- shepardrtc 3y agoI'm saying that they weren't able to invent anything. Maybe they learned about new materials, but it's one thing to know the molecular composition of a material and another to actually make it. So, being selfish assholes, they want to keep it a secret. Government officials are more than happy to award sole source contracts when they're offered a cushy job after retirement.
- srge 3y agoMany people from the government and from the military are putting their reputation and career (and maybe safety) on the line to bring these informations to the public. Let’s at least recognize that before automatically casting doubt.
- montagg 3y agoIf they aren’t bringing evidence, it’s a waste of people’s time. Taking a big risk that is most likely a very bad decision shouldn’t provide any credibility at all. Do that when you can show evidence, and then you have credibility.
- likeabbas 3y agoGrusch gave program names, people involved, and locations of these special access programs purported to be reverse engineering non human technology to the ICIG and both intelligence committees in congress. Call your congressman and ask if he is credible.
- xnyan 3y ago>...ask if he is credible It would not matter if the most credible source alive said it, I would still ask this question: if what they are saying is true, then it's possible to prove it without needing to take what they or anyone else says on faith alone. If you remove what he or people in general from the question, to date I have not found the evidence in support of extraterrestrial visitation of earth very convincing. Plenty of plane-recorded footage capturing strange visuals, but an absolute lack of anything that does not also have a plausible non-alien explanation.
- likeabbas 3y agoYou're right to be skeptical of his claims. At the very least, you should support Congress investigating this issue. Because either there are some crazy people with access to the most sensitive state secrets we own, or they are telling the truth and there's been a major coverup for the last 90 years hiding non-human intelligence visiting this planet from elsewhere, and there's technology far beyond what we have created.
- philips 3y agoI watched the hearing and noticed three things: 1. Many questions about the US response to aerial devices like the “Chinese ballon” and the public’s right to knowledge about those events. 2. Calls for removing career stigma around pilots reporting UAPs. 3. Calls for additional funding and policies surrounding research and reporting of unidentified aerial phenomenon. It was a combination of pragmatic process improvements, defense funding requests and unsubstantiated non-human intelligence claims.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago[flagged]
- nonethewiser 3y agoChina admitted it was their balloon but claimed it wasn’t the government’s, nor for surveillance. Does that mean China is just in on the conspiracy then?
- neuronic 3y agoIf you believe Grusch, then yes, because governments around the world are racing to recover UAPs. I don’t really believe it but it would be in line with the story.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago[flagged]
- bananapub 3y ago> Imagine this...China loves to see us spend more and more on "defense", while they plan and execute things such as "The New Silk Road." While we're droning the fuck out of the Middle East, China is making friends in Africa. if your conspiracy that the US is run by self-serving idiots then I don't know what to tell you
- LinuxBender 3y agoI identified a UFO yesterday. It was a UFO until I realized a finch flew past my camera too fast for it to focus. I suspect most UFO's are something like this. I would hope that all UFO investigations start with "Why were our sensors failing to do their job?" and/or "Why was someone able to trick/spoof our sensors?" I can see why this would be classified. One should not leak to adversaries how miserably some of our sensors and cameras are failing. So that only leaves me with one question. Do governments stipulate in their vendor contracts that if {n} percent of objects can not be identified by some measurable means that they get a heavy discount on the improved sensors?
- bcherry 3y agoAt least in the military, they have confirmed publicly that they routinely interact with UAP during training etc that are captured multiple ways: radar, FLIR, visual, cameras, etc. So it's not a sensor artifact. This resource is a good "just the facts" intro to the topic, as perceived by the US military and federal government: https://www.uap.guide/ https://www.uap.guide/
- bloopernova 3y agoI saw an unidentified object once, gave me a really cold feeling and scared the stuffing out of my wife. For about a minute we were really wondering what the hell this thing could be: https://imgur.com/gallery/5aOM5me https://imgur.com/gallery/5aOM5me
- chiefalchemist 3y ago> “I was informed, in the course of my official duties, of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program, to which I was denied access,” Grusch told the committee. So he's got hearsay but no hands-on or eyes-on direct proof. Like Mulder, I want to believe. But if you're going to speak under oath, you've got to do better than this.
- shepardrtc 3y agoHe had names of people willing to testify, names of people to investigate, and exact locations of where to look. All of which he offered in a scif in accordance with the requirements of his clearance level. As soon as they get approved for the scif, then they'll see very quickly if he was full of shit or not.
- chiefalchemist 3y agoIf there are others with more direct knowledge and they are willing to testify, then why did Congress call on this guy? The smell here is off.
- waterheater 3y agoBecause Grusch is a whistleblower and made himself known. The others have not yet done so.
- shepardrtc 3y agoAre you seriously asking why they didn't immediately have every bit of information and then immediately act on it? These things take time. There are very specific procedures that have to be followed.
- NoPicklez 3y agoExactly, so until we see any skerrick of that information, what we have to date is useless.
- BaculumMeumEst 3y ago“I was informed, in the course of my official duties, of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program, to which I was denied access,” Grusch told the committee. Not sure if this is an insane person, a grifter looking for a book deal, or someone trying to trigger an investigation. But I’m going to go out on a limb and say we probably haven’t been studying a crashed alien spaceship for decades.
- dtx1 3y agoSo just to give everyone here a bit of context. This hearing was not for the UFO Believers to be used as official disclosure. This was not to convince any skeptics out there this is real. This is a political tool for the congressional oversight committee (who themselves may not have any evidence) to put into record what they need to follow up on using their power of the purse and oversight rights. Is this an issue of national Security? Who has what information? Who is housing what artifacts? What funds are used to pay for these projects? Who has committed crimes to hide this information? All those questions weren't asked because anyone expected Grush, Fravour or Graves to tell them: Yeah I've got a UFO in my garage. In fact all witnesses answered all those questions before. This had one specific goal: Get this into congressional testimony, under oath, from credible witnesses and thus give congress the means, information and constitutional duty to investigate further. And for all those sceptics out there: this is unusually bipartisan and seeing Gaetz and AOC both laserfocused on investigating government misuse of money on such a historically fringe subject is most interesting.
- eeeficus 3y agoThis comment should be first comment. Instead, I had to endure the HN intelligentsia writing non-sense with the specific arrogance of know-it-alls!
- RajT88 3y ago> this is unusually bipartisan and seeing Gaetz and AOC both laserfocused on investigating government misuse of money on such a historically fringe subject is most interesting. Indeed, there was very minimal political sniping. A little bit at Biden about the Chinese balloons, but that was it. I was very surprised - especially with those two in the same room.
- RetpolineDrama 3y agoFirst high-quality comment in this thread, and you absolutely nailed it.
- w0de0 3y agoIt’s filled with grammatical, typographical, and logical mistakes. It’s disorganized. There are many sentence fragments and few whole thoughts. There is no thesis. One paragraph contains only sophomoric leading questions. The name Grusch - the subject himself - is misspelled. What’s your metric for quality? Seems merely low-quality sophistry to me.
- dang 3y agoRelated threads on this hearing: Whistleblower tells Congress: US Gov't hides 'non-human intelligence' evidence - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36882051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36882051 - July 2023 (1 comment) Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880471 - July 2023 (13 comments) Public US hearing on UFOs [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880454 - July 2023 (55 comments) Live: UFO/UAP Congressional Hearings - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36879441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36879441 - July 2023 (95 comments) House UFO hearing livestream [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36877774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36877774 - July 2023 (121 comments) I'm not sure which URL is best so not sure where to marge the threads, most of which aren't very good anyhow. This is a topic on which people mostly just repeat their priors.
- waterheater 3y agoMaybe merge the three video links and keep the news stories separate?
- dang 3y agoWhich is the best video link and which is the best article link?
- waterheater 3y agoBest video link - Public US hearing on UFOs [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880454 - July 2023 (55 comments) Best article link - Former intel officer says 'non-human biologics’ found at alleged UFO crash sites - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880471 - July 2023 (13 comments)
- dang 3y agoOk, I've merged them in that way. Thanks!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ozten 3y agoThe simplest explanation I've come up with is that the politicians like Marco Rubio and Matt Gaetz are servicing the UFO conspiracy segment of their demographics by supporting and encouraging David Grusch to be a UAP whistleblower. Grusch's extraordinary claims that the US has forced a global secrecy around the race to recover working and crashed non-human vehicles since 1930, that biological materials (aliens) and vehicles have been recovered multiple times, and that there is currently multiple countries in a "cold war" like race to recover these vehicles on an ongoing basis, seems fanciful. A beneficial pragmatic outcome will be if there was more government transparency and removal of stigma around reporting UAP for civilian and military pilots.
- caladin 3y agoThis comment (inadvertently?) by mentioning those names gives off the impression that this is a partisan push. It is not. This is an explicitly bipartisan effort. Most recently: - Kirsten Gillibrand (Senator D-NY) most recently secured funding for UAP Office, and for years now has been writing legislation on the topic which has been passed: https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/news/press/release/gillibrand-secures-full-funding-for-uap-office-in-senate-defense-bill-markup/ https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/news/press/release/gillibr... - Chuck Schumer (Senator D-NY) in the past few days pushed an amendment for UAP disclosure, with language including things like eminent domain over any recovered UAP craft. It is unlikely this would've been pushed without consulting the white house. https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment... See also: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/13/us/politics/ufo-records-schumer.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/13/us/politics/ufo-records-s... Choice excerpt from Section 10a: "The Federal Government shall exercise eminent domain over any and all recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological evidence of non-human intelligence that may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interests of the public good" This is from Chuck Schumer, someone that hasn't been adjacent to this topic until now, out of nowhere. - The late Harry Reid (Senator D-NV) was a huge proponent of pushing for more information on this topic, initiating the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) which was the precursor to a lot of these developments. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Reid#UFOs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Reid#UFOs - Jared Moskowitz (Representative D-FL) was one of the three representatives pushing for this hearing
- iamkoch 3y agoLucky for earth this all happens in US airspace eh?
- kristianpaul 3y agoWe're lucky
- localplume 3y ago[dead]
- lp0_on_fire 3y agoIt reminds me of the BigFoot people - "Here's a picture of the barn next to which BigFoot was standing just MOMENTS before the picture was taken".
- waterheater 3y agoGrusch testified that UAP are observed everywhere the Navy operates across the globe. Additionally, allied and other military forces also admit the presence of UAP activity.
- htss2013 3y agoIf we discovered alien planets filled with different "countries" and had some constraints on the time we could spend visiting each one for observation, wouldn't we likely choose the most militarily and economically powerful one to focus on? It wouldn't be 100% but it's plausible that it would be the main subject.
- digitcatphd 3y ago“He has not seen but spoke with anonymous people about it” and apparently is trying to be stopped but can’t go into detail. Sounds like utter nonsense.
- realo 3y agoOne thing I find amazing is the diversity of UAP vehicles. It used to be saucers, then silvery orbs, tic tac pills, triangles with bright lights , and now during the hearing we learn about dark cubes in translucent spheres! I mean... how many different alien races exactly are playing tourists over here?
- bcherry 3y agoit feels like the most unlikely number of ET races monitoring earth would be 1. If it's possibly _at all_ that there is intelligent life elsewhere and it has the capacity to reach across the galaxy / universe and monitor us, surely there'd be multitudes of them given the scale of the universe. so it's not that weird to observe this kind of diversity. (not making a claim on the veracity of the reports)
- cwkoss 3y agoPerhaps earth is the best comedy in the quadrant
- operatingthetan 3y agoA recent idea floating around is that these craft are manufactured on the fly for specific purposes.
- krapp 3y agoThe dark cubes in translucent spheres were probably just radar deflectors[0]. [0]https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28640/could-some-of-the-ufos-navy-pilots-are-encountering-be-airborne-radar-reflectors https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28640/could-some-of-th...
- o-90 3y agoOne explanation for this is that another country just has better military technology than the United States. And the cover-up/conspiracy is that the US government knows this, but just made up something about aliens because they knew that Americans were stupid enough to believe it. It exploits a very glaring blind spot in a lot of Americans' minds (that there is no way we couldn't be #1).
- einrealist 3y agoI am more convinced that modern radar and sensor technology is susceptible to accidental or even malicious interference. And if there is a cover-up, its more likely to prevent harm to the businesses of the contractors and technology providers and to prevent adversaries to learn possible exploits. I highly doubt that there was "visual contact" with those anomalies.
- OhioMan2943 3y agoAll four crew involved in the popular 2004 navy "pill incident" video claimed to have eyewitness accounts. https://youtu.be/ZA-h3dIeD_A https://youtu.be/ZA-h3dIeD_A This was further expanded upon in the hearing
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoMore conversation over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36883198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36883198
- rhaway84773 3y agoThe best part about this “whistleblower”? He’s entire testimony is hearsay. > “I was informed, in the course of my official duties, of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program, to which I was denied access,” He has no first hand evidence. Basically somebody pranked him by telling him they had access to super secret programs that he would not be allowed to ever see and now he thinks the govt is running experiments on aliens.
- feoren 3y agoI agree. It sounds like an army private testifying before congress about hidden stocks of blinker fluid. Whoever originally played the prank on him must be rolling on the floor during this testimony.
- bcherry 3y agoHe has provided classified photographs, videos, other records, _and his sources_ to both intelligence committees and the ICIG. I believe some of his sources have been directly questioned by those entities as well. And they have pressed forward with this hearing and the UAP Disclosure amendment in the Senate. That suggests this is not about blinker fluid.
- RetpolineDrama 3y agoAll I can say is that the archives of these threads/comments are going to be _highly_ entertaining to our future-selves (hello future people reading this!). The amount of ignorance on display is overwhelming, and a lot of people who fancy themselves intelligent are going to struggle to come to terms with how they were so wrong for so long.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- LightMorpheus 3y agoAhoy to the future. If it’s been 7 years and no evidence has surfaced, then discard any and all news about UFO • UAP • NHI • Aliens as complete b.s. Signed, The past
- 8jef 3y agoAs a future self from 5 minutes ago, I'm feeling totally alien hated.
- justanotherjoe 3y agojust want to point out that you just predicted future events to enable value judgement of present things. It's just like the people saying "You are on the wrong side of history", or "They will look so silly when people start dying off because of the vaccines." But don't feel too bad, everyone is doing it these days, even the educated ones. This is wrong because no one knows how things will play out. How sure you are is not so important as everyone is sure with their prediction. Right now UFO is still a 'strong' prediction, many scientists who are getting into bed with this and commenting on it being convincing are problematic to begin with, like michio kaku (a bestselling author who is still describing himself as a string theorist, still, a dead end and biggest waste of effort in physics). I'm gonna stick to the null hypothesis for now.
- russellbeattie 3y agoI wish I understood this guy's motivation. Let's assume he's not a nut job... So why is he bringing to light secrets which could negatively affect U.S. security? Especially as a career Air Force officer and intelligence services member. Whether you agree that this info should be public or not, there's something odd about this person's 180 degree flip. From swearing an oath to protect the country and its secrets, to insisting those secrets become public. Really? Let's also assume his story is real: The tech could be nuclear weapon level science, so secrecy would nominally be a good thing. But he doesn't seem to know what it is, and has decided that it doesn't matter anyways. What would possess him to face public ridicule, criticism, career damage and all that to be a whistleblower for something that could potentially be dangerous if public knowledge? It just doesn't add up. Also, it seems to me the last president wouldn't have been able to keep it a secret had he known about it. Which leads to all sorts of "Independence Day" style conspiracy theories. Occam's Razor says it just isn't true.
- bloopernova 3y agoWhat's the timeline before real evidence is provided? Or is there none, and this is just the same as the last million times something extraordinary was claimed and nothing came of it?
- throwaway24599 3y agoarchive: https://archive.ph/x1ZSD https://archive.ph/x1ZSD
- killingtime74 3y agoI guess this is what people expect them to do? It's their job? Is he really a whistleblower or just revealing secrets? Where is the wrongdoing hes blowing the whistle on? Not giving congress enough details?
- vsareto 3y agoProbably companies over inflating contract prices then sending some of that money to these programs. I’m still suspicious of claims about actual aliens until things get declassified.
- catchnear4321 3y ago> I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program to which I was denied access that’s bullshit, but i’ll believe it.
- thumbuddy 3y agoStuff like this always hits the news when really bad shit is either going down or about to go down.
- behringer 3y agoBecause they work for a week and finish up on Friday... Like everybody else.
- catchnear4321 3y agowell that is rather curious. for a site with the demographics that it has, one might expect an acknowledgement that thou shalt not deploy on friday.
- behringer 3y agoThey're just like us. They deploy on Wednesday and hang out until Friday when they tell the boss it's completed.
- thumbuddy 3y agoStuff like this always hits the news when really bad shit is either going down or about to go down as a distraction.
- edgyquant 3y agoNo it doesn’t. I don’t know, or particularly care, either way but this statement is something insufferable people throw around to seem smarter than everyone else. Military people don’t testify before congress about UFOs “everytime something big is about to happen” and people aren’t as stupid as you think that they can only care about one issue at once.
- KingLancelot 3y agoThe biggest question to ask is, why after 90 years of secrecy, coverups, and gaslighting the general public, have they started the disclosure process, specifically starting with that New York Times/Pentagon confirmed story in 2017.
- markus_zhang 3y agoMy hunch is they finally have the means to extract tech in those vehicles so they figured it's better to move it to public air.
- 0xbadc0de5 3y agoIt's always a little disappointing how many people fail this IQ test.
- hn-thrwaway202 3y agoGovernment agencies have hidden pretty astounding things in the past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee
- LadyCailin 3y agoThose are all rather mundane things. Compared to intelligent life flying around in Earth, which, would presumably fly around many countries, not just the US, would require a coordinated, worldwide many year effort to keep secret. Not even a little bit the same ballpark.
- 000ooo000 3y agoWhy do you think that the effort required would be significant? All they have to do is paint anyone claiming to have experienced it as a delusional crank and relegate those beliefs to the fringe. Even people like Michael Burry who had some level of insight into the GFC before it happened is these days often written off as a crank or is the subject of cliches like "even a broken clock is right twice a day". I don't think keeping it a secret is as important as keeping the idea in the domain of fantasy.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y agoClearly then they are also hiding the hollow earth and the lizardmen and the sentient troll drolls. But that argument doesn't work, right? Because just because they hid something previously doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be hiding what you want now.
- OhioMan2943 3y agoWhy are so many people here aggressively attacking the character of people who are open to non human intelligence and visitation? There's no reason for hostility and open-mindedness has minimal consequences, even on this issue.
- neom 3y agoFull hearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL_HYG3uXQg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL_HYG3uXQg I watched it, pretty weird. Particularly interesting: 1:45:00 through 2:00:00
- trompetenaccoun 3y agoThanks for posting the original source. Extremely weird indeed.
- jiggawatts 3y agoSeems to be a lot of non-answers to me? Am I missing something?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- neom 3y agoNot sure if you're missing something. Are you referring to the whole thing, the area I thought was interesting, or..? This isn't a very easy reply to parse.
- jiggawatts 3y agoJust the 15 minutes. He kept evading the questions, and the only "interesting" thing he said was pure science-fiction speculation. For example, his description of the holographic principle is what you'd get if you asked a high school student to make up a cool sounding story based on the phrase alone. It reminded me of a scene from Neon Genesis Evangelion, where one of the Angels "projects" a 3D shadow. To put it mildly: "That's not how any of that works, at all." The holographic principle is an observation from theoretical physics that it's possible to reframe the laws of physics over a volume of space as a different set of mathematics on the surface. This is akin to the Fourier transform, it's just reprojecting the mathematics, not people! It's not a teleporter between parallel universes! For anyone interested: the concept arose from how black holes grow. If a black hole grows twice as heavy, then instead of its volume becoming twice as big (like you'd expect), its surface area doubles instead. Holographic theory is based on this and says that everything in a volume of space can be simulated with a "hologram" on the surface of that space -- you don't need a x^3 simulation, an x^2 one will do. The idea is that there is a lot of redundancy in mostly empty space. Physics doesn't "allow" arbitrary things to go on in there, so the redundancy can be squeezed out by doing all of the maths on the surface, which is less redundant. Black holes are maximally packed with physical information, so their surface is completely non-redundant, and hence must grow in proportion to their mass. As you add more stuff, you need more surface, and hence the event horizon expands outwards, providing more surface area.
- andrewstuart 3y ago"Whistleblower tells Congress US is concealing 'multi-decade' UFO capture program" --> "Whistleblower is deluded" There's no UFOs. Well let me clarify - there's no aliens. If there are UFOs then they are made right here on earth and just need close up, non fuzzy photos.
- lakomen 3y agoAnd you know this for a fact because?
- function_seven 3y agoSame reason fuzzy Big Foot photos and fuzzy Chupacabra photos don’t prove anything, despite earnest testimony from those who took them.
- habitue 3y agonobody knows anything for a fact. But we have our priors. Our priors should reflect no radio transmissions from aliens, no non-blurry pictures of UFOs, etc etc
- Eji1700 3y agoBecause it's as well documented and supported as God.
- niccl 3y agoMaybe they're really just different manifestations of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
- mazelife 3y agoWell the titular "whistleblower" of the article has claimed the U.S. recovered a saucer from World War II dictator Benito Mussolini on a tip from Pope Pius XII. Sorry but that's firmly in tinfoil-hat territory. https://popculture.com/trending/news/vatican-helped-recover-alien-ufo-whistleblower-david-grusch-claims/ https://popculture.com/trending/news/vatican-helped-recover-...
- h2odragon 3y agoFor those asking "Why now?" ... here's a couple wild takes: The Interstellar Squid have arrived. They're hanging out around Saturn (cf "largest comet ever"). Even after a century of preparation and propaganda, there is a large fraction of humanity who refuses to conceive of intelligence other than human. This is the last gasp at preparing them. That, or the political corruption has gotten so rank that they're scraping the bottom of the bin for "lookit the shiny!" distraction stories.
- qingcharles 3y agoWell, have you ever tried navigating interstellar space? It's not exactly a walk in the park. Even for our sophisticated cephalopod friends, the Interstellar Squid, it's a bit of a pickle. Oh, and let's not forget about the Squid's notoriously poor sense of direction. They've probably been circling Saturn for the past decade thinking it's Jupiter. I wouldn't be surprised if they show up in a few millennia, asking for directions to Earth. So, let's cut our Squid friends some slack. Interstellar travel is hard, and they're doing their squid-best.
- BSEdlMMldESB 3y agowell, they invented the basic outline of eyes we have, so give them some cred (our eyes are flipped, I wonder how this relates to swimming in liquid in contrast with gas) if anything, scalar interstellar travel is SLOW
- h2odragon 3y ago> have you ever tried navigating interstellar space? Technically, yes. With very little success, alas. Pesky gravity.
- pleb_nz 3y agoTentacly yes?
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoYou’re acting like you know everything about the universe, and this is the worst state of existence to be in. Do you think the only way to navigate space is the way we know it? That’s such a lack of imagination and such an arrogance of your scientific certainty It leads you to say things like this.
- dathinab 3y agotrue, UFO == Unknown Flying Object at least since the cold war the US had a lot of interest to capture any unknown flying objects and also not disclose much information about capabilities, scope etc. of such a program Can this objects be strange? sure I mean it who knows what the Soviet Union invents. Just looking at some of the research Nazi Germany did (and which ended up in the hands of the US) they would be stupid not to do so just to be sure not to miss something. But does that mean such a program had anything to do with aliens? Not really. But if you already have the program you already keep track of any unexplained aerial phenomena, so people speculating about aliens is basically guaranteed. Why would you still disclose such things today? Maybe you where responsible for some missing/crashed Soviet Aircraft or maybe some civilian casualties. Maybe by researching what causes what phenomena you develop some unusual plan which was never used (or build) but has successors which could be relevant if a WW3/Cold War2 starts. Who knows. What I know is that all the examples about how supposedly we now have stuff based on alien tech seem nonsensical to me, as there is a long paper trail of how people invested that stuff it's parts it's non widely available predecessors etc. Similar a program not related to aliens seems likely. And people, including employees etc., coming up with all kind of "interesting" ideas what such a secret program actually does is also well in the area of what I would expect given my understanding of humans.
- JKCalhoun 3y agoUnidentified?
- poulpy123 3y agoPrediction: it's not aliens Reason: it's never aliens
- protocolture 3y agoYou expect me to believe that regardless of origin, the US Government wouldnt pursue unknown objects?
- 1letterunixname 3y agoIf those objects are people at the southern border, then they're the first to throw some bullshit finger-wagging about a requirement to register at some country they passed while fleeing for their lives with some buggy app. Americans are shocked that the tax-dodging neoliberals in power don't differ significantly in policy from the previous administration who rounded up children in cages, separated from their parents, and lost them to abusive, exploitative foster care parents who sometimes made them work in dangerous factories below the legal age of work, e.g., effectively child slave labor. Or if those objects are also people who have an AGI < $5 megabucks, they're down to audit records with a probe where the sun doesn't shine. It's also problematic, a distraction, and a waste of resources to address mythological and conspiratorial topics, like having a flat earth research committee. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/03/sunday-review/tax-rich-irs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/03/sunday-review/tax-rich-ir... https://archive.is/lNEng https://archive.is/lNEng https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/17/super-wealthy-irs-tax-audits-plunge-over-decade-government-report-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/17/super-wealthy-irs-tax-audits...
- gymbeaux 3y agoNeoliberals are not only in positions of power, but they are, in particular, tax-dodgers?
- aczerepinski 3y agoWhat convinces all of the aliens to crash their UFOs in America? Or is every govt part of the conspiracy?
- qingcharles 3y agoThe recent testimony says it started with the Italians and the Vatican helping out in the 1930s. Your point stands though. If these things are crashing then surely they would have crashed on some Third World hell-hole where the population would happily collect the debris and sell it to whoever wants to pay. It would be hard to cover something like that up. The US likes to think they are everything, everywhere, all at once, but it's not entirely true.
- markus_zhang 3y agoI listened to the testimony but could only get the "30s". When did he mention Italy and Vatican?
- ricksunny 3y agoHe referenced his interview with NewsNation.
- markus_zhang 3y agoThanks! I'll check it out.
- NoPicklez 3y agoIt does seem like America is the best as having UFO stories and alien conspiracies.
- solarengineer 3y agoThey have a recovery team. There are very few countries in the world that would refuse a US demand for access to a crash site and for full rights of alien artifacts. The Brazil case testimonials support this, as does the Italian/Vatican case preceding Roswell.
- dralley 3y agoPeople often joke about how the US should make aircraft that look like UFOs so that people don't take them seriously, but they don't consider the corollary: adversaries could make aircraft that look like UFOs, so that we don't take reported sightings of strange objects seriously.
- poulsbohemian 3y agoHaven't watched the hearing, but when I've heard a breakdown of public comments over the past few months, what has struck me is how circuitous each statement has been. Person 1 high up in the food chain says that Person 2 told them there was something there, but Person 2 turns around and says either Person 1 or Person 3 told them. It feels like a lot of independent construction and circuitous logic, and the whole time I've found myself wondering about an end goal. Maybe this really is some gentle way of preparing the public, or maybe there are more incidents of things that the government can't explain so this is a PR campaign of sorts.
- zikzak 3y agoWatch the hearing. The two pilots are in no way making statements like that.
- calebio 3y agoRight? Cmdr. Dave Fravor seemed like he didn't have anything to personally gain by giving his testimony. He told us what he experienced, said he was amazed, wished he could pilot the craft he personally saw, and didn't offer speculation where he didn't have experience.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoEveryone who is making the snarky comments have never had an encounter with a UAP. My brothers and some of my friends had them twice when we were kids in New York. You all are calling us a distraction, but it is absolutely nowhere in the news. If it was this distraction, it would be headline on CNN. But it’s not. I literally know no one that knew this hearing was going on today.
- enterprise_cog 3y agoThe Guardian had live reporting of the hearing. If you Google “uap hearing” pretty much every major outlet covered it. Doesn’t need to be a front page headline for it to add noise to the chaos of the world.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoYou have to know that the hearing was happening or even what a UAP was to google it in the first place. I asked around all day today and no one knew anything about it. They didn’t even know what UAPs were. There are so many other things that are distractions and it’s just not is on the top of the list. but the thing is, we had government and military officials saying that they were actually alien craft, and they said this under oath, and everyone’s acting like this is nothing. I did not expect this at all at the hearing because they were under oath, so this is what surprised me so much. I can understand someone not believing anyone saying something on YouTube or a random podcast but they were under oath and they were military officers. I just don’t understand how no one sees this as something as insane as it is.
- calebio 3y agoI think folks conflate too many wild things at once and dismiss them all. I think there are some interesting questions and folks with pretty good credentials that have came out and given some interesting answers to some of these. * Are there craft that defy the laws of physics as we know them today? * Do any governments or corporations have access to these crafts, partially or whole? * Do those governments or corporations have control over those crafts? * Were those crafts ever intelligently controlled? * What type of intelligence controlled those crafts? Is it biological? * If biological, what is the source or origin? One of the witnesses at the hearing today, Cmdr. Dave Fravor (Retired), seems like a really normal guy, not some previous "UFO nut" out to confirm an existing bias. He said what he saw was amazing, it defied anything he had ever saw, and as a pilot himself... he wished he could pilot it. He flew up next to the damn thing. Now whether these are illusions or not, whether they defy the laws of physics as we currently know them, I don't know... but these folks have stated that there are up close photos as well as radar data that backs up their claims that should be released to the public. I like to think that I still retain a chunk of that curiosity that I had as a kid. I can be a skeptic at work and professionally.. but I don't know how we can advance science past a stalemate if we can't suspend disbelief for a minute here or there and entertain the idea that there are some wilddddddd things we may not currently know about. I think we should potentially waste some time and always follow these leads. In the off chance that they were ever true, I wouldn't want to be in the group that just dismissed it because of my own ego. If they're false, let them sell books and make YouTube videos for the rest of their lives. But we shouldn't just dismiss them outright... especially if they're willing to go under oath and have specific directions to point.
- thegrim22 3y agoIf, as alleged, the government has been running a many decade disinformation campaign on the UAP issue, what are the odds that everyone in this thread is a legitimate commenter? To what level would comment threads such as this be manipulated in different ways in order to maintain/push the narrative the government wants? How do you even attempt to have conversations about something like this when such a powerful adversary could be secretly working against you, poisoning the conversation?
- ilaksh 3y agoI don't want to be unfair because there are certainly lots of smart well informed people out there on many websites, but I suspect that intelligence agents would focus on sites with more users and users that generally have less discernment than in HN.
- wildermuthn 3y agoI’m a huge skeptic, but I’ve been following this very closely over the past few months. Fermi’s paradox has two good answers — we don’t see aliens because they don’t exist, or we don’t see them because they are here already. They should be here already. The paradox is about why we don’t see them. Being skeptical is different than doubt-by-default. A skeptic is curious and slow to judge. So with great curiosity, I’ve dug deep into the rabbit hole. It appears that the vast majority of those in “ufology” are in it for the money. Many claims about extraterrestrials also veer off into the supernatural. Conspiracy theories have a funny attraction to one another, creating clumps of exuberant irrationality. But the recent case of David Grusch and the rebranding of UFOs as UAPs and aliens as NHI (non human intelligence), are a sign that clear (but skeptical) thinking is growing on this topic. Grusch isnt (yet) making money off this. He appears entirely trustworthy in a way that is off-color for this topic. Assuming he isn’t a world class con playing the long-game, his credibility suggests three possibilities: 1. He has bad data, by accident or incompetence 2. He has bad data, by purposeful deceit 3. He has good data. The cool thing about Grusch is he doesn’t claim to have first-hand knowledge. He claims to have the names of people who do, and the locations associated with the “crash-retrieval” program. What’s more likely, that there is no other intelligent life in the galaxy, or that an advanced civilization that has been around for eons isn’t all that interested in engaging with the local wildlife? The most credible UAP reports don’t involve the fantastic stories of abduction, crop-circles, ancient pyramids, etc. The credible reports have what appear to be reconnaissance craft with a strong interest in the military and nuclear weapons. In short, it’s worth supporting Grusch and having his names and places checked out. The answer to Fermi’s paradox is an important one for humanity — as central as whether the sub revolves around the earth or the earth revolves around the sun. At the very least, we should be curious skeptics. As the head of the Pentagon’s All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), Sean Kirkpatrick, said recently, “wouldn’t that be fun?” if we discovered evidence we were not alone.
- balfirevic 3y ago> or we don’t see them because they are here already. If we expected to see them far away, how would them being here prevent us from doing that (and also from seeing other presumably existing alien species that are not here)?
- 1letterunixname 3y agoSomeone is or someones are launching a book, public speaking, vlog, and Netflix series to get some of that sweet Discovery Ancient Aliens' cash.
- cowboysauce 3y agoCommercial airlines apparently experience crashes at a rate of 6 per 100,000,000 flights. I wasn't able to find a figure from the testimony as to how many craft are claimed to have been recovered. The best I could find was an anonymous quote from a Vox article of 12+. Applying the commercial airline stat to 12 crashes over 80 years results in almost 7,000 alien flights per day (just over the US). There are 25,000 flights per day (again in the US). A ratio of alien:commercial flights of 1:4 is really hard to buy. The alternative is that these alien craft are incredibly more advanced and yet somehow worse at flying than human aircraft. To play devil's advocate, maybe the government is intentionally shooting them down. But how? With what? Human knock-offs of their own weapons?
- edgyquant 3y agoOr it could be you’ve made a ridiculous assumption by comparing commercial airlines to UFOs in the first place.
- potsandpans 3y ago...yes. and what else floats? A duck! who are you, so wise in the ways of science?
- cowboysauce 3y agoI'm asking if alien craft are a safer method of transport than air liners. Alternatively, if we replaced air liners with these craft, would fewer people die? If they are safer then the sky should be flooded with them to result in 12 crashes so far. This doesn't seem to be the case so there must instead be a smaller number of more dangerous craft to result in 12 crashes. So either the sky is flooded with invisible alien craft or their craft are a more dangerous method of travel than our air liners.
- pleb_nz 3y agoOr maybe it's better to compare to personal modes of traffic and not airliners?
- kcplate 3y agoWhat is most fascinating to me is I think that Blink-182 dude went and predicted all of this disclosure stuff was going to start happening on Rogan’s show like 5+ years ago
- dang 3y agoRelated ongoing thread: Public US hearing on UFOs [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880454 - July 2023 (199 comments)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- none_to_remain 3y agoThis is a clown show. When do we get a horse senator?
- DoItToMe81 3y agoThey claimed similarly spectacular things about about spiritual powers and psychics in the 60s and 70s, which turned out to be total bunk and most likely a funding scheme for the CIA. If aliens are visiting us, why is the US the only nation to have any documentation? Are you telling me the collapse of communism, which caused everything from nuclear plans to biological weapon designs to leak, somehow left aliens untouched?
- rurban 3y agoWhat are the chances that such alien bodies are only detected over US soil? The US landmass (9.834.000 km²) is exactly 1.93% of the earth landmass (510.100.000 km²), and we can assume everybody can see the differences. I call it bullshit
- wly_cdgr 3y agoSo, like, rat poop?
- DropInIn 3y agoThe whole thing screamed a mix of mental illness and con artistry to me...
- Borrible 3y agoRemnants of a Roadside Picknick by the USS Black Budget, an accounting black hole.
- pvaldes 3y agoLaika returned home again?
- 7373737373 3y agoShow us material and photographic evidence, as well as independent, scientific analysis, or shut the fuck up
- solarengineer 3y agoWhy would you want them to shut up? They have given information to those who can actually do something with that information - e.g. get into military and commercial workspaces, subpoena government and private sector persons for questions, seek budgetary audits and clarifications, etc. A person says "I swear under oath that there is so and so place. Visit for yourself and see". This person is not allowed to take pics at those places. But the official visitors definitely can go see for themselves. The motivation can be "get first hand knowledge of whether budget is being wasted and whether people are being killed", for starters.
- 7373737373 3y agoThis is more directed toward the (cultish) believers, the sensationalizers and those unable to document their statements without direct evidence (which the people in question may very well be unable to)
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 3y agoIf anyone is interested in seeing rigorously analyzed video material, I recommend the YouTube channel of Mick West[1]. He is an experienced programmer that has written a software to combine available data into a 3D space. This makes it possible to recreate situations and validate/invalidate hypotheses by stepping through time and looking from different camera angles. He also analyzed the famous gimbal and flir videos (Spoiler: There is a straight-forward explanation for what they show) and deconstructed some of David Grusch’s statements[2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/@MickWest https://www.youtube.com/@MickWest [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvhMMhW-JN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvhMMhW-JN0
- okdood64 3y agoThe way you describe it it seems like Mick West is the quintessential HN poster; thinks his success as a software engineer makes him a supreme expert on other fields.
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 3y agoYou are reading things into my comment I didn’t say. I said his programming capability allowed him to create a tool that lets anyone combine data into 3D space which makes it possible to verify hypotheses. Where others in the UFO community wave their hands and make bold claims about something supernatural, West checks if the observed phenomena can be explained in reality-based physical ways. Anyone can check the work he and many others did jointly. The data and simulations are free to download and assess. This process is much closer to science than anything I have seen from others in the UFO community. If anything, your comment makes the impression of the quintessential HN poster that claims to know better / dismiss others without having checked the linked sources.
- dave333 3y agoIt seems more likely that rumors of aliens is obfuscation of the military by the military to avoid rumors about secret programs. Non-human biologics are easy to fake and photograph and might pass if no close or detailed examination is made.
- wildrhythms 3y agoNo need to fake 'non-human biologics' when a bird can poop on the wreckage and viola "'Non-human biologics' were found on crashed craft." Vague wording can be used to justify almost anything for people who are predisposed to believe it.
- tonfreed 3y agoI found his wording weasley. "Non-human" at "non-earth vehicle crash sites" could have just meant they found a dead cat underneath a downed hot air balloon. He never explicitly said anything about extra terrestrial beings, and this honestly just feels like a stupid spy joke.
- Flatcircle 3y agoPlease. If aliens were on earth there’d be lots of quality video and photos from people’s cellphones. Too many people with too many cellphones to not have any proof.
- boffinAudio 3y agoThe recent videos from the family in Nevada who had aliens in their back yard were pretty compelling ..
- latchkey 3y agoThe issue with 'recent' is that we now have the ability to fabricate anything using CGI.
- gs17 3y agoWas there an actual video? I saw the meteor flash caught on a doorbell camera and a Blender animation people were trying to pass off as footage.
- boffinAudio 3y agoThere was a pretty good set of videos of the family going into the yard, with some shadowy figures in the background, sitting in the tractor, etc. I particularly liked the analysis of the footage which shows what appears to be an alien hiding behind the fence as the family entered, and disappearing in an alien cloaking shield .. I want to believe!
- mustacheemperor 3y agoThe F-117 nighthawk flew for years, all over the world, before there were any photos or videos. The RQ-180 has been flying for years, all over the world, and has only been photographed twice, poorly, from far away.[0] Not to say an unidentified flying object must be an alien, but it seems very obviously the case that there are aircraft flying around the globe today you and I haven't seen in photos and videos. [0]https://theaviationist.com/2021/09/05/mystery-aircraft-philippines/ https://theaviationist.com/2021/09/05/mystery-aircraft-phili...
- bbstats 3y agoProbably dog / chimp, no?
- red-iron-pine 3y ago> not human. okay, so? they didn't say non-terrestrial. we've put dogs, monkeys, all sorts of other critters in to experimental aircraft. also, the Russians (Soviets) / Chinese / Europe all have good air and space monitoring capabilities and satellites -- and there is an awful lot more land in Russia. Why aren't they confirming these things? I'll say it again: this is a way for FedGov to burn media cycles as both Hunter Biden and Trump are facing indictments that have real teeth. Same story since the 90s and the Oklahoma City Bombing, a great way to keep the q-anon / rube demographic riled up.
- smcleod 3y agoThe whole thing is a distraction while the US (and others) are trying to sneak through encryption busting laws.
- belter 3y agoTravelling the whole Galaxy, just to crash ont tiny Earth. No wonder other species avoid this Planet. Earth must be the Vegas of galactic civilizations....
- revlolz 3y agoThe entire UFO congress interaction has seemed like a large distraction away from items like the fed raising interest rates again with the reasoning still to tackle inflation. I don't say this to trigger a debate on politics or flamebait , this seems like peak "hey look over here" material. I wish we had events unfolding to hurl us into a new age of space progress, but the "non human biological" stuff was definitely actual dog shit or someone's lunch.
- pengaru 3y agoIf you find the corpse of an unlucky coyote at a crash site, you've found 'non-human biologics' and the headline would factually apply. Those words strike me as so carefully chosen as to mean absolutely nothing.
- phendrenad2 3y agoHere we are, having the same arguments about this we did in 1950 or so. After decades and decades of the exact same story over and over and over, maybe it's time we started thinking about this differently. "UFOs are fake and everyone who says they saw one is a liar or crazy" is tiresome, you'd have to be a liar or crazy (or woefully uninformed) yourself to actually believe that without at least major doubt. "UFOs exist and I have personally seen their ship fly with my own eyes" and "I have personally seen alien bodies" also doesn't ring true. My conclusion is much stranger: There are UFOs, and they somehow defy our ability to capture them. Maybe they don't follow the laws of physics, and we can't actually contain them.
- skc 3y agoSilly aliens should have crash landed on a continent where nobody would have cared.
- standardly 3y agoSociety is so gullible :(
- androidbishop 3y agoI find myself torn between my STEM-educated skeptic mind and my numerous DMT-induced visits to hyper-reality and communication with unfathomably advanced hyper-dimensional beings mind. I find it difficult to accept that these experiences were just the products of my own subconscious or imagination, as they were far beyond the capabilities of my wildest dreams and just felt too real, too alien, and too consistent. There has been some recent breakthroughs by Andrew Gallimore that have allowed researchers to extend the DMT experience indefinitely via the DMTx project, and the first trials have been completed by a group of serious researchers, all PhDs. They report extended contact with hyper-dimensional aliens/beings, on numerous sessions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myq_Hc_39aI&t=1898s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myq_Hc_39aI&t=1898s Now, I find it difficult to believe there isn't a plethora of intelligent life out there in the universe. There are just far too many star systems. I also find it difficult to believe that any have to come to visit. There is no evidence to support it, and think about it: the time, energy, and technology required to travel the vast expanse of space to reach Earth are unimaginably huge. And if they had that kind of technology, it would seem unlikely that they would routinely crash once they got here. Furthermore, we've only been producing radio waves for a short period of time, nowhere near long enough to signal a remote civilization that we're even here (I'm not sure our radio waves would even be detectable at those distances). And why would they even want to? At that level of sophistication, we would be nothing more than ants to them. Bacteria in a petri dish. Yet, even we, as humans, spend a lot of effort researching ants. And bacteria, in petri dishes. And if the collective DMT community's experiences are to be believed, and we have contacted and communicated with advanced alien intelligences, they usually seem to be quite interested and curious about us too. This is a huge leap, but maybe the universe isn't what it seems. It could be data, data that could be manipulated from outside the confines of the simulation. Or, maybe there are higher dimensions of reality, that we are currently (mostly) incapable of detecting from our vantage point. Maybe the aliens exist in higher dimensions, and use these UFOs as lower dimension probes, that don't have to travel vast distances of space because they don't originate from other star systems. Maybe they crash because they're SUPPOSED to be found, maybe they want us to reverse engineer them to learn something, to accelerate our technological and scientific advancement. Or maybe it's all poppycock. Maybe we're the first species that will possibly achieve interstellar transportation, and it will us that are the aliens visiting other primitive worlds. Only time will tell.
- wnscooke 3y agoSince we are talking about something as fanciful as aliens, consider this perspective: There are no aliens because their existence runs counter to what the Bible says about God. Assuming the only creation God engaged in was planet earth, how he is described (as never changing) means that his revelation of himself in Christ (who was both human and God, in order that his death would be like our deaths, ((wages of sin is death)), but whose divinity would allow him to rise from the dead ((thereby proving the penalty of sin - death - had been paid for _eternally_ {{being God}})) means that any other creation in the universe would need to be in a similar situation as humanity on earth...otherwise Christ as God/Human is totally senseless and useless on these other planets...which can not be since God does not change. Thus, no aliens, anywhere. Now before ppl go off screeching about religion, this is in no way an attempt to convert. It is just a perspective made possible by someone who reads the Bible and likes to try to place any modern idea against it, and maybe the same might help someone else grapple with the immensity of It All. It also doesn't mean that there is no need for humanity to keep searching and exploring the stars.
- IAmGraydon 3y agoIf you want to take an approach that is literally the opposite of the scientific method then, yeah, sure. This is HackerNews though, and we tend to stick to verifiable evidence here.
- krapp 3y ago>otherwise Christ as God/Human is totally senseless and useless on these other planets...which can not be since God does not change This doesn't even make sense. God being unchanging doesn't imply that the relationship of all created beings to God must be the same. Genesis makes it clear that humanity was created in a state of perfection and then fell from grace - and yet God didn't change, despite humanity's relationship to God changing. Therefore it is possible within Biblical canon for created beings to exist which do not need salvation through grace - humans are an exception, not the rule. I mean, within the Bible, there are humans who just don't die and go straight to Heaven because God likes them and decides to waive the immutable stain of original sin like a parking ticket, because apparently even God's rules can have exceptions. Also, your assumption that the only creation God engaged with was planet Earth is fallacious. Genesis clearly states that God created the Heavens and the Earth. He created the entire universe. The Bible doesn't mention the dinosaurs either (no, Leviathan doesn't count, file that under the common Indo-European motif of chaoskampf) but we know they existed. I'm not even religious but I can see your point of view is a bit too limited even within Christendom. CS Lewis was writing about aliens within the framework of Christianity a century ago. Many religious people can square that circle quite easily, simply by assuming God is not strictly limited to what is contained within Biblical canon.
- seamac3 3y agoIf aliens are here, on this planet... what do you think they are doing here?
- operatingthetan 3y agofarming
- seamac3 3y agofarming what?
- operatingthetan 3y agoI don't know, I just have this idea that we aren't actually on the top of the food chain so to speak. Maybe it's farming for genetic diversity. Or maybe you start civilizations to get them to birth bespoke AI personalities, or some other wacky idea.
- seamac3 3y agoYea, I feel like Aliens is not so far out of a possibility, and the theories are fun to play with... yet something grounds me and says there just are (and have been) some really smart people out there.
- southernplaces7 3y agoI wonder who here has ever read the work of Jacques Vallee? I recommend it very much. There are two implicit and rather rigid views that I think need to be carefully scrutinized in many of the comments on this site for UFO-related posts: The first of these is that whatever is happening on earth must either be a whole lot of nothing truly abnormal, or a case of aliens from other star systems having visited our planet, under the partial disqualifier that this seems unlikely as hell unless they have FTL travel capabilities. What if it's neither of those things? What if something else, not normal as we know normal things of nature to be, but also not classically extraterrestrial or for that matter an outright case of hoaxes and mistaken identity is happening? That last question leads into the second very common rigid point that should be scrutinized: the assumption that aliens have to be extrasolar visitors to be present on Earth. Since we known nothing about alien life, or any super-intelligent life anywhere at all, we can only guess at anything about its nature. Because of this I think it's a bad idea to not consider the possibility of something entirely different from classical interpretations of extraterrestrials interacting with us already, and possibly in ways so strange (because of its own truly alien strangeness in a general sense) that they seem absurd and instead get written off as myths or hoaxes across decades and centuries of human history and reported events.
- Datsundere 3y agoEric Weinstein has a reasonable voice here. Considering there is nobody that is a subject matter expert in these topics employed in these programs, this is just a wild goose chase from something more sinister they're doing with money. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMJ4cbO88F4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMJ4cbO88F4
- fithisux 3y agoUFOs during war!!! OK, it sounds, as suspicious as it gets. Maybe some ultra-big intelligence calling us to get killed for a higher (deeper) purpose (pocket).