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Ask HN: Stock Android phone free of bloatware?

192 points by miki_tyler 3y ago

Is there an Android phone available that comes without any pre-installed bloatware, offers long-term support, and ensures access to the latest Android versions?

LinuxBender 3y ago
Stock Android phone free of bloatware? I've not seen any. There are growing collections of debloat scripts that use adb and do not require rooting the phone but it's hit and miss per model as to completeness and not breaking the OS startup. Some vendors lock down their bloat so that rooting is required and in my opinion those should get returned / refunded and the product reviews on sites such as Amazon should warn others rather than rooting the phone. I've returned a few. My uleFone had the least cruft on it and the least lockdown but still uses upwards of 4GB ram after my first pass so I still have a long way to go.
mgbmtl 3y ago
A bit tangential: I was happy to learn about Android apps that can change the home screen, such as Lawnchair (thanks to whoever pointed that out to me, after I had posted an cranky comment that was understandably downvoted). For example, it makes it easier to disable the search on the home screen, and many other tweaks. I also like being able to hide apps from the list of all apps, but they are still accessible using the search. It helps make the bloatware less visible (ex: I don't use the Youtube app, or most other pre-installed apps). I use a Pixel 6 with very few features from Google, and happy with it. Long-term support is the only issue, although they do offer 5 years for security updates, which is better than previous Google models.
gizajob 3y ago
Motorolas
xslvrxslwt 3y ago
Everyone's talking about Pixels yet no one mentions how Pixels batteries are terrible and how 'their' Tensor G2 gets slaughtered by a $200 SD 7 device. Pixel is a big skip, camera clutches and NOTHING ELSE, software (ui/ux) looks and feels terrible.
djaahk 3y ago
I've been enjoying my Nothing Phone (1)a great deal. Very few pre-installed app - I believe just a reskinned version of the weather app; full Android experience and the updates have been very impressive so far. Also, incredibly cost-effective.
herbst 3y ago
Xiaomi let you remove any app. Most more popular ones have a huge ROM community so long term new android builds (no company actually does that)
dangus 3y ago
For the asks you describe, the iPhone is the answer, except for the word “Android.” No Android phone is going to give you the same level of long-term support. iPhones have zero bloatware and you can uninstall first party applications. You’ll get OS releases the day they come out regardless of your phone model.
pSYoniK 3y ago
Pixel 6a/7 (not 7a) for me. I had the Pixel 2 running Graphene OS for about 5 years and got the 6a a while back and put Graphene OS on it. You can get Gapps with Sandboxed Google Play Services, privacy, security and bloatfree experience. Because we have Google chips in these you also get 5 years of security updates (huge bonus!). The 7a has poorer battery life than the 6a/7 so its a poorer choice for my personal use case but ymmv. Otherwise the 6a runs about 3 days for me (got 4 out of it initially but I use my phone very little) or 2 days when driving and needing more usage out of it.
joanne123 3y ago
[dead]
PickledHotdog 3y ago
Motorola/Lenovo have some fairly stock Android options
Annieez 3y ago
[flagged]
tinytuna 3y ago
Why not simply installing lineageos or AOSP instead?
- miki_tyler 3y ago
  Because with this question I am testing if there is a market for this.
- bboygravity 3y ago
  Because it is a lot of work, not all phones support/allow rooting, you need to hide root for apps manually for them to work and there's no way to take full backups on Android phone, rooted or not (adb backup is deprecated and never actually worked at all anyway). Meaning: every time you screw up (or get a new phone) you have to start all over, without the ability to restore a backup. This can easily take many days worth of man-hours. Source: I've tried.
  - deng 3y ago
    A default LineageOS installation will not be rooted. There are really less and less reasons why you'd even want a rooted phone. The killer feature used to be ad-blocking, but most ad-blockers can work without root nowadays. The backup problem is a notorious problem with any Android phone, I don't understand what it has to do with custom ROMs.
    - witx 3y ago
      > I don't understand what it has to do with custom ROMs. If I don't feel confident I'll be able to get a custom ROM working on my phone I'll have 2nd thoughts about erasing the original ROM
    - fensgrim 3y ago
      "A default LineageOS installation" as in "a device which is officially supported through https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/" is like that, indeed, and while most of the unofficial builds come with as -userdebug, no root, there's a high chance of encountering either a flaky build (permissive selinux) or having to fallback to a GSI build, some of them, and nowadays it means AndyCGYan's [0], come with optional root enabled. As for backup: stock backup facilities (adb backup/restore) aren't exactly the best thing for sure, (rip Titanium Backup, Seedvault isn't even remotely there), and TWRP is broken on most of devices with modern encryption support (specifically, on Pixels). Coincidentally, Mediatek SoC based devices are the 'best' when talking about backup (as in: you can dump and clone all partitions through a built-in service mode [1]). 0. https://sourceforge.net/projects/andyyan-gsi/files/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/andyyan-gsi/files/ 1. https://github.com/bkerler/mtkclient https://github.com/bkerler/mtkclient
mikece 3y ago
Google Pixel: what you’re wanting is exactly why it was made. (Added bonus: you can shed even more bloat by installing Graphene OS, something that requires a Pixel at the moment.)
- miki_tyler 3y ago
  From what I know, Google typically provides support for Pixel phones for about 3 years, which is relatively shorter compared to the 5-year support period offered by Apple for iPhones. I wonder if there are better alternatives available.
  - stuckinadrawer 3y ago
    For the latest Pixel phones they guarantee 5 years of support by now.
    - Maro 3y ago
      For the latest Pixel 6 and 7s, they guarantee 3 yrs of Android OS updates and 5 yrs of security updates: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#zippy=%2Cpixel-later https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#z...
      - DANmode 3y ago
        Hasn't compatibility mostly stayed the same since Android 4.4?
        DANmode 3y ago
        Anyway, my point is: aren't the security patches enough?
        Freak_NL 3y ago
        For two additional years? Probably.
sphars 3y ago
Honestly, the Pixel phones are probably the best compromise between your requirements. While Samsung gets slightly longer support, the bloatware, IMO, is just too much (depends on your definition of bloatware though). Plus the Pixels are first for latest Android and are generally well-supported with third-party ROMs (Lineage, Graphene, AOSP, etc). So my suggestion is the Pixels, (the "a" series for a less expensive choice).
- miki_tyler 3y ago
  Indeed. I was wondering if perhaps there are other choices out there.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    What about the Pixel lineup isn't fulfilling your tastes?
- bobsmooth 3y ago
  I like a lot of the built-in Samsung apps.
  - sneak 3y ago
    How about the ones that surveil your usage of the device and phone it all home to Samsung? The issue isn't bloat - the issue is spyware.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    In other words, Stock Android still isn't great. Samsung sometimes makes it better.
    - swah 3y ago
      Yeah, I feel like I have only one complain (camera lag) otherwise a S-line Samsung is awesome (and better than iOS for me, though I'm using an iPhone at the moment because the camera is awesome). People seem to forget how ugly it was in the Samsung S5 times...
everybodyknows 3y ago
Google started a program back in 2014 to encourage other hardware vendors to build just such things. It is alas, now on hospice care, with death imminent: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One
- jmrm 3y ago
  I had the Mi A1 since its release until a couple months (fall in a water bucket and broke), and it was a perfect phone at that time: Pure Android experience with no bloatware, 2 full days of battery with moderate usage, a decent screen, fast, confortable to use, and also was cheap. Nowadays most Android phones have plenty of bloat and lack some specifications unless you spend some money. It's sad how a cheap phone that were usable was €150 to €200 and now the bracket is between €300 and €350.
- taubek 3y ago
  Android One was one of the best things that has happened to Android ecosystem. To bad it is gone :(
Daegalus 3y ago
The Pixel is the closest. The reason you don't see long term support on Android is because of Qualcomm. Qualcomm wants manufacturers to build on new chips, so they deprecate older chips and stop support. Most manufacturers don't want to hire kernel and hardware devs. Samsung can pull off longer support because of Exynos and they have a lot of inhouse expertise to extend support on old Qualcomm chips. It's all money. They don't want you keeping a phone for 5 years. Apple can do it because they lock you into their walled garden where they can double and triple dip on getting your money. They also build their own chips.
- hatsune 3y ago
  Quite not true. LOS does not need to hack kernal of all deprecated chips to update everything to much higher android ver. There are no reasons manufacturer can't do that. It's a choice made by manufacturer not Qualcomm.
- SCdF 3y ago
  Are you saying that Pixel's abysmal long term support record is because Google can't afford to hire kernel and hardware devs? Or does Qualcomm lock them out even with those people after some number of years?
  - masklinn 3y ago
    > Are you saying that Pixel's abysmal long term support record is because Google can't afford to hire kernel and hardware devs? Not can’t, don’t want to. If it‘s not going to save or make money, company isn’t going to bother. And Google is on a cost-cutting crusade right now so absent an external motivation it’s going to happen even less.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > Apple can do it because they lock you into their walled garden where they can double and triple dip on getting your money. Funny way to spell “provide quality service compared to competitors”.
  - 3y ago
rsv29 3y ago
We use Nokia and Motorola phones in our lab as they have the near stock Android experience. the bloatware can be quickly turned off. Typically 2 years support is what I have seen.
stuckinadrawer 3y ago
If you are in Europe you could take a look at the Fairphone 4. It's designed to last long and it's repairable as well.
- scscsc 3y ago
  I have just seen someone using such a phone. It looks good, just a tiny bit bulky. Not sure on how it will do long term. My OnePlus has been serving me well for more than 3 years now.
  - iExploder 3y ago
    some people dont mind a tiny bit of bulk, some people dont mind kids mining cobalt barehanded and getting cancer in the process
    - dainiusse 3y ago
      This is no argument. Both of them have batteries and both pose the same risks.
      - iExploder 3y ago
        This is no argument. Both cats and lions have legs and both pose the same risk.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    > Not sure on how it will do long term. Haven't they been around long enough now to answer that?
maxk42 3y ago
I switched from Motorola to OnePlus after the former began shipping bloat ware by default. There's a little bloatware in OnePlus but it's not too bad.
chillbill 3y ago
Pixel with GrapheneoS
jillesvangurp 3y ago
The short answer is no. There is the Google Pixel. But it has limited updates and proprietary software for things like the camera. That camera is really nice though and it's as close as the Android experience Google intended to ship because this basically is Google's version of Android. I have the Pixel 6 and it's fine. Nokia stays close to that but ships their own camera app. It too has limited updates that run out after a few years. Other than the camera software, it's basically "stock android". I'm not sure there even is a stock version for the camera at this point. There are plenty of alternative camera apps though. I always had a weak spot for open camera, which is nice. My previous phone was a Nokia 7 plus. The camera was not great but otherwise a fine phone. The fairphone is probably the closest to what you want. But you are buying older hardware and at a premium. And fairphone OS is based on an older version of Android and also limited in time for updates. The updates run out at some point though they are pretty good at keeping the security patches going. Repairability is great though. In short, long term support is hard to get. No-one seems to be willing/capable of doing that. At best you have phones that become unsupported at some point but at least allow you to install alternative firmware (without any promises or support).
- lxn 3y ago
  I agree with everything you said about Fairphone, but their software support is decent when it comes for security updates (major Android versions upgrades are not guaranteed). They offer 5 years which is way better than average. Their track record is also good I would say. Fairphone 2 started with Android 5 and it currently offered Android 10 upgrade. https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9979180437393-Fairphone-OS https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/997918043739...
  - berkes 3y ago
    I've been exclusively on Fairphones since Fairphone 1. Recently switched from FairphoneOS (the stripped, bloatfree, google-free Android) back to stock Android¹ Its updates are fast, steady and consistently good (and improving). The FP1 is ten years old, and still works (though android there is EOL and old, and spare parts no longer available), my FP2 and an FP3 work fine, I can still get parts and Android isn't too old. The hardware is slow, and old, though (e.g. no 5G, power hungry BT, puny camera by current standards). The FP4 is top notch. Spare parts are cheap (e.g. Replaceable battery only €29, new screen only €80), android 12 good enough. But it does have stuff like Google Meet or TV that I would like to remove but cannot. ¹I'm diabetic. Monitoring and Pump control is moving from dedicated electronics to native apps. And they often require Google Android, cannot or will not run on degoogled android. Same for banking and payment apps.
hbcondo714 3y ago
Discussions today on the new Asus Zenphone 10 say no bloatware (compared to Samsung at least) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36528607 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36528607
dimitrisscript 3y ago
The Nothing Phone 1 has minimal bloatware, maybe 2 or 3 apps.
noman-land 3y ago
Get a Pixel and install GrapheneOS, it's really really good!
nottheengineer 3y ago
Fairphone is great, but expensive for the hardware and not available everywhere. A pixel with grapheneOS, calyxOS or /e/OS would be the next best thing.
_trackno5 3y ago
Your best bet is probably a Pixel with something like GrapheneOS or CalyxOS on it. Android manufacturers suck in terms of long term support. Samsung offers the longest support, but their phones are full of bloat. and they recently passed some ToC updates that prevent you from suing them which I find a super anti-consumer move. If you can compromise on long term support and don’t care much about photos, the Asus Zenfone 10 is probably your best bet
- Freak_NL 3y ago
  A Pixel with GrapheneOS works well for me. It seems like the best compromise at the moment.
cvalka 3y ago
Pixel. Others: Fairphone, Nokia, Nothingphone.
deng 3y ago
I always get a used phone (2-3 years old) that is officially supported by LineageOS. I've made good experiences with Motorola Moto G phones. A good alternative are Pixels or OnePlus. My current phone is a Motorola Moto G6 Plus, which was released in 2018, now running LineageOS 20 (Android 13) just fine.
- aceazzameen 3y ago
  I've always wanted to try LineageOS on one of my older devices. But I always end up getting a device that never has Lineage support. I have a Samsung Note 4, Note 8, and now Note 20 Ultra. Meanwhile, support is for Note 3, 9, and 10.
- 2-718-281-828 3y ago
  same here. second hand phones. usually oneplus. totally happy with lineage on them.
neilv 3y ago
At this time, I'd get a device on which I can install GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices Note that the particular device unit (not model) must have an unlockable bootloader (so, probably not a unit that was solid by a carrier that disables this): https://grapheneos.org/install/web#enabling-oem-unlocking https://grapheneos.org/install/web#enabling-oem-unlocking
- laktak 3y ago
  Can you run normal banking apps on graphne?
  - Chatter9220 3y ago
    Yes you can! I do a lot of banking on GrapheneOS. You might want to check this site out to see if your bank app works though: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... Even if your app isn't listed there, there's still a chance that it'll work. Mine isn't listed on that site, but it still works with no issues.
    - public_defender 3y ago
      Wow, thanks a million for that link. My banking app was not working but I found "Exploit protection compatibility mode" in the relevant thread, and now it works again.
    - ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
      I will back this up by saying that all the banking apps (plural) I run on GrapheneOS run perfectly fine. I don't even have Google Play Services installed, either.
system2 3y ago
Do yourself a favor, buy an iPhone.
- azangru 3y ago
  Not until I can have a real Google Chrome (rather than a Chrome-themed Safari) running on it.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    That would be best of both worlds, send your data to both Apple and Google ;)
- jamesnorden 3y ago
  Ah yes, the phone where you can't even disable stock apps at all, very insightful.
  - system2 3y ago
    You probably will understand me when you are expecting very important business call but your Android phone doesn't ring because the operating system decided to crash.
seized 3y ago
As a long time Pixel user.... Pixel. My Pixel 5 is a perfect phone. Stable (125+ days uptime a few times), fast, no Samsung style bloat.
richliss 3y ago
Get a Fairphone or old Pixel and stick Calyxos on it :-)
- mrweasel 3y ago
  Can you install pretty much any app on CalyxOS, without involving Google?
  - roumenguha 3y ago
    It depends. Are there any apps you want to know about specifically? I'm running CalyxOS right now and can try. My banking apps work fine, surprisingly. And some Google (Gmail, Phone, and Fi) apps too, surprisingly, but not all (eg Meet, Messages, and Fit)
    - mrweasel 3y ago
      Mostly just Signal, and a good maps app. TOPT apps I'd assume is readily available. The only other app I regularly use otherwise is ErgData from Concept2, but they offer the APK file for download. I do have a local payment app, which would be nice to not lose, but it's not a hard requirement. The number of apps I use these days are surprisingly low.
rpgbr 3y ago
Get a second hand phone with great LineageOS and give it a shot. It’s phenomenal how better a, let’s say, Motorola phone gets when you replace pre-installed Android with Google-free LineageOS one.
- BLKNSLVR 3y ago
  It seriously feels like the hardware has been upgraded.
ShamelessGenius 3y ago
I bought Pixel 7a and flashed GrapheneOS and running it without a single Google app. My experience has been pretty good so far.
- jcul 3y ago
  Does the camera work as well as with the stock OS? I've used custom ROMs for years, but never used Graphene. My current phone is a Xiaomi Mi9T. With a custom ROM, to properly make use of the camera you need to flash a magisk module. Otherwise you are stuck with the stock android camera app which doesn't perform nearly as well. This phone is on its last legs, the screen was smashed so I had to replace it with a cheaper LCD, which has affected battery life and sometimes is unresponsive. Thinking about getting a used Pixel 6 and giving Graphene a go.
  - susanthenerd 3y ago
    Graphene OS has its own camera app that is not that good, but people have run the google camera app on it without issues
  - jonas-w 3y ago
    You can use the google camera app, but they are trying to make their own Camera app as good as the official App. > Google Camera can take full advantage of the available cameras and image processing hardware as it can on the stock OS and does not require GSF or sandboxed Google Play on GrapheneOS. Direct TPU and GXP access by Google apps including Google Camera is controlled by a toggle added by GrapheneOS and doesn't provide them with any additional access to data. The toggle exists for attack surface reduction. Every app can use the TPU and GXP via standard APIs including the Android Neural Networks API and Camera2 API regardless. > We aim to reduce the benefits of Google Camera compared to GrapheneOS Camera over time, especially on Pixels. Many features of Google Camera will end up being available for GrapheneOS Camera in the next year or so via CameraX extensions including more aggressive HDR+, Night Sight and Portrait. Video features such as slow motion and time lapse are likely further away than within the next year. These video features could potentially be provided via CameraX vendor extensions or could be implemented via our own post-processing of the video output. Panorama, Photo Sphere, Astrophotography, Motion Photos, Frequent Faces, Dual Exposure Controls, Google Lens, etc. aren't on the roadmap for GrapheneOS Camera. Video frame rate configuration and H.265 support should be available for GrapheneOS Camera in the near future via CameraX improvements along with DNG (RAW) support in the further future. All the info: https://grapheneos.org/usage#camera https://grapheneos.org/usage#camera
DeathArrow 3y ago
Android is designed with bloatware and crapware in mind. Your best bet is to install an alternative ROM such as LineageOS.
leon_theremin 3y ago
[flagged]
- cookiengineer 3y ago
  > BadBIOS Do you know a legit reverse engineered PoC of it? or a legit dump of the firmware? I mean, it's theoretically possible. I don't doubt that since vault7 malware leaks, but is there an actual copy of something like this available? If anyone knew about it, I'd assume the 1vyrain people definitely would.
  - leon_theremin 3y ago
    It is not implemented on firmware, but as a silicon trojan. It doesn't use sound, but EMF. It won't be exposed in full easily though as criminals with access to it currently work to prevent anyone from doing so.
    - cookiengineer 3y ago
      > It won't be exposed in full easily though as criminals with access to it currently work to prevent anyone from doing so. Do you have evidence or links to articles supporting this?
dagurp 3y ago
My last two phones were both Motorola partly because of this.
- dezgeg 3y ago
  Can relate, I've been very happy with my Moto G 5G Plus. No bloatware, and with its included rubber shell it even survived an one story fall without any damage.
em-bee 3y ago
murena sells phones with /e/OS preinstalled. for my mother i installed /e/OS myself, but if she had to get a new phone while i am not around i'd point here to that website and tell her to get one of those. /e/OS is free of bloat, yet easy to use.
- _rdvw 3y ago
  /e/OS is currently 7 months behind security updates for the browser/webview for the second time in a row and has a PDF viewer not updated since 2016 yet considers itself the "state of the art" in security. See my full list of issues with it here: https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt
yankput 3y ago
Fairphone is the closest. (Only available in Europe.) https://shop.fairphone.com/en https://shop.fairphone.com/en The negative is the really really awful camera.
- mdp2021 3y ago
  Does the Fairphone require a Google account, or can it be used like the traditional Android systems - airgapped, never connected to the Internet? I understand that the latest Android systems require an account to initialize the device - they have disabled the "Skip" [connection to the Internet] button when you first turn them on.
  - progval 3y ago
    On the FP3, you need to accept the Google ToU to unlock the bootloader (confirmed with FP's support), but you don't need an account.
ludovicianul 3y ago
OnePlus is pretty close to stock. Very fast, very good battery. It's the only Android I've loved before switching to iPhone. I have a Samsung and a OnePlus 5T bought in the same period (around 5 years ago). The OnePlus still rocks 1 day battery with medium usage, while the Samsung is dead in a couple of hours.
- manojlds 3y ago
  If your experience with OnePlus is from OnePlus 5T times, I have some bad news for you..
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Same. I had the OP 3T, best phone I ever had. Moved to the OP 7T worst phone I ever had, slow updates, and every update brought it's own set of bugs. OnePlus went down the drain, avoid them like the plague.
  - KnobbleMcKnees 3y ago
    What's the news? I have a 9 pro. Has a single uninstallable app (OP store) and battery life is over a day.
  - ludovicianul 3y ago
    That's sad to hear. I had the One, the 3T (both sold) and still having the 5T. They were all great phones.
- bodge5000 3y ago
  I'm still using my 5T to this day as well and feel like its easily got another year or two of life in it
- haspok 3y ago
  The battery in my 5T is at 75%, still acceptable. But the headphone jack socket is basically unusable, because it is so worn, and I have similar issues with the USB-C socket, although that also depends on the cable. Not sure what I'm gonna replace it with eventually, I'd just have a new battery if it was replaceable...
ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
Pixel 6 or newer (so Google silicon, so 5 years guaranteed support) plus GrapheneOS.
pyrelight 3y ago
Motorola does a pretty good job. Their "bloatware" is mostly the Moto app, which provides really handy and reliable gestures like a double "chop" to toggle flashlight, twisting the phone a few times to enable the camera, three-finger screenshot trigger, etc. Their phones are really solid but they do lag on OS updates, and their cameras are never good.
- djaychela 3y ago
  Came here to say pretty much exactly that. I've been on a series of moto G phones, from the 5 to my current G83. Good value, the moto app actually adds functionality without being a drag (or even mandatory to use). Cameras are always sub-par (partner has pixels, and I'm light years behind), although the latest is the least bad in comparison with her current phone. Current one has survived most of me building a home extension with little damage...previous one developed an intermittent screen touch issue, but only after I dropped it 12 feet onto a concrete floor,so I can't complain on reliability either.
  - Crosseye_Jack 3y ago
    > but only after I dropped it 12 feet onto a concrete floor My brain went right to old Nokia phones and I thinking "Thank fuck it was a Motorola, back in the day you would have to had the foundations checked over if it had been an Nokia" But yeah, Always been happy with Motorola G phones (bar the cvamera, but I'm not really a photo person anyway), I still have an old 2014 Moto G to test apps on old devices/Android.
  - agent008t 3y ago
    Just want to mention that the moto camera is made FAR worse by the software. E.g. video on my moto would always be blurry due to bad de-noising settings used by stock software. mcpro24fps allowed me to take dramatically better videos. The difference was HUGE. Same with photos. Custom gcam roms, after a long time of trying different ones and tweaking, gave me dramatically higher quality photos. Again, night and day difference. So the hardware is fine; they shoot themselves in the foot with the software.
devit 3y ago
Google Pixel, install GrapheneOS on it
jpmoral 3y ago
Pretty happy with my 3+ year old Nokia 5.4. It's been pretty good at getting OS and security updates. Came with Google apps and no Samsung-style apps.
- pestatije 3y ago
  same here...nokia 5.3, upgraded to android 12 without issues...love it
codeulike 3y ago
Fairphone 4
- mrweasel 3y ago
  I'm really interested in the Fairphone as my next phone, but which OS to go with. I'm currently on an older iPhone, because given the choice of the two, I trust Apple slightly more than Google. You can load at least a few different alternative operating system, but finding one that will give me at the very least Signal is proving difficult.
aborsy 3y ago
I’m curious how do pixel phones and pixelbooks running ChromeOS compare with iPhone and MacBooks running macOS in terms of security? I know in terms of privacy, Google is worse due to built in telemetry (and cloud based chromeos). If there is no security benefit either, then there doesn’t seem to be a major reason to prefer Google’s products over apple’s. Pixels aren’t much cheaper either (particularly considering the shorter support period).
- melvyn2 3y ago
  Because apple software has no telemetry?
  - aborsy 3y ago
    Apple collects less (and has better privacy settings).
Saris 3y ago
Also going to say Pixel. They come without really any bloat, but most models are also well supported by LineageOS, GrapheneOS or others if you wanted to get more privacy.
hospitalJail 3y ago
Might be worth checking out the Zenfone. Aux port + no bloatware. Or at least nothing like samsung.
dtagames 3y ago
Sony makes several very nice high-end Xperia phones and all of their stuff is stock Android.
- Faark 3y ago
  Agree, am on Sony as well. Just make sure to pick one that is widely used and thus have other distros available. Had that with my previous one, so didn't check with my current... AOSP available, but not great. I went back to a stock image and continued from there...
crote 3y ago
I recently looked into this due to my old device breaking. The best options are: - Google Pixel - Motorola - Nokia I ended up with a Google Pixel 7. The Motorola Edge 40 was a close contender, but I ended up axing it from the list due to the curved screen edge. My selection criteria were: cleanest Android possible; latest Android version; long-term support; wireless charging; decent IP rating. My previous phones were a Moto G2 and Nokia 6.1, for comparison. The first one replaced due to the charging port dying and running out of storage, the second one having its screen destroyed by dropping it on a tile floor.
wanderingmind 3y ago
If you are OK with spending a couple of hours, buy a Motorola phone that is supported by LineageOS[1] and install microg+ LineageOS(2) It can spoof Play services and so most Apps from Play store will work. [1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#motorola https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#motorola (2) https://download.lineage.microg.org/ https://download.lineage.microg.org/
- uhtred 3y ago
  Could also skip the work and buy a murena (/e/os) phone preinstalled with /e/OS which is based on lineageOS and has MicroG installed already. https://murena.com/ https://murena.com/
  - _rdvw 3y ago
    /e/OS is currently 7 months behind security updates for the browser/webview for the second time in a row and has a PDF viewer not updated since 2016 yet considers itself the "state of the art" in security. See my full list of issues with it here: https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt
readingnews 3y ago
I am not sure where you are located... I was on the Nothing Beta program and received a nothing 1 phone. I have been a longtime root-unjail-roll-your-own phone user. The Nothing is probably the most bloat-free in recent memory. Sure, the google apps (gmail, files, maps) are on it, and it comes with weather, but that seems to be it, and the rest you can easily uninstall without pain.
- routerl 3y ago
  +1 for the Nothing phone. It does remind me a lot of the OnePlus One, back in the day.
ParetoOptimal 3y ago
Pixel 7 and grapheneOS is phenomenal. It's also trivial to install thanks to their web installer. Best buy trip to working grapheneOS took under an hour.
valeg 3y ago
Phones manufactured under Nokia brand and Fairphone.
lawgimenez 3y ago
I think nobody has mentioned the gaming phones like Infinix. I bought Infinix as a test device and was surprised with the affordable price and large storage. And importantly I haven't noticed any bloatware apps.
Zufriedenheit 3y ago
Gigaset. + Stock android afaik + 5 Year updates + Swappable battery and still IP68 - a bit older hardware and higher price It's the only smartphone assembled in Germany so not sure if its available where you live.
- euniceee3 3y ago
  Or if the modem will support the bands where they are at.
tristor 3y ago
Yes, it's called an iPhone. There are no options for Android unless you flash it with your own ROM. Your best bet is a Pixel running GrapheneOS if you're adamant you want to be on Android.
xwowsersx 3y ago
I'm on the Pixel 7 Pro (had the 6 Pro previously). From my perspective, it's the Android experience intended by Google (it is their flagship phone after all). I'm very happy with it. But yes it does have some other Google servicey things you may or may not want.
GenericPoster 3y ago
So why do you need the latest android version and why long term support? If you are a nobody, there isn't a need to pay for the "latest and greatest". Security updates are a meme and just a way to add more bloat. Don't download apk's from unknown sources, use an adblocker and that's 99% of all attack vectors closed. That only leaves pre-installed bloatware, a legitimate issue that can be solved with a few steps. The phone doesn't matter but get something android 10 or higher, their selective permissions are nice but you can go as low as android 6 without too many issues. But you might have app compatibility problems. During phone setup, don't immediately connect to the internet. If you can uninstall the apps do that. Otherwise, force stop and clear data of every installed app that you don't think you will ever use. As long as the apps don't open or take up ram or cpu cycles then the phone is functionally 'bloat free' Remove all of the permissions that don't make sense. Your calendar doesn't need access to your microphone or even contacts. Turn off all settings that even hint at telemetry including locations. Once this is done, you can connect to the internet. Download fdroid through the browser and look for a local VPN that is capable of blocking access to apps and has a decent permissions menu. Get that configured and then you are good to go. The local vpn will almost certainly break things the first time you use it. But you can just tweak it and as long as you aren't installing any new apps very often you won't have any problems. Stick with open source apps as much as you can. And only update Apps when they break or if there is a feature you really want. Don't actually do anything important on your phone like banking but if you have a browser with adblock then that's fine but keep it minimal. I like this method because it's phone agnostic. I don't have to settle for a pixel or another phone that I need to get root on. If this sounds like too much and you don't want to flash a new OS, then just get an iphone.
- themodelplumber 3y ago
  > Security updates are a meme and just a way to add more bloat. What. Are you serious? You mean in general or on certain brands for example?
  - GenericPoster 3y ago
    I am and in general. I've bought and used android devices that haven't received updates for at least 3-7 years. It's a phone. If you can make calls and text, it's already doing it's job. If you have a device that regularly receives security updates then it's up to you to download it but the idea of getting rid of a functioning device just because its no longer receiving security updates is ridiculous. Especially since these devices often get sent to developing countries. The entire security theatre for consumer devices is incredibly overblown. Sure there was a time where viruses and malware ran rampant, but those times have passed but companies don't make money if they don't sell new devices so their incentives and yours don't align. For computers, it depends but as long as you're not downloading sketchy shit and have an adblocker then you're fine. And once again, all of this applies as long as you're a nobody, which is at least 70% of the population. Those who don't work in government, medical, aren't businesses etc.
dimitar 3y ago
I'm using a Fairphone 4 and there is 0 bloatware, with a range of other benefits you might like - user replaceable parts and serviceability
- ixxie 3y ago
  I can second this. My carrier (Orange France) did put some crap in there, but otherwise nothing.
OJFord 3y ago
The 'Android One' line/programme. Phone has to be pretty stock, and commit to some number of years of updates and more of security updates in order to qualify. Or of course a Pixel, though if you don't use all of Google's stuff you might consider they come with more 'pre-installed bloatware'. They'll also probably always be supported by Lineage, so you could install that when official updates dry up, or just from day one to avoid 'bloat'.

192 points by miki_tyler 3y ago

Is there an Android phone available that comes without any pre-installed bloatware, offers long-term support, and ensures access to the latest Android versions?

LinuxBender 3y ago

Stock Android phone free of bloatware? I've not seen any. There are growing collections of debloat scripts that use adb and do not require rooting the phone but it's hit and miss per model as to completeness and not breaking the OS startup. Some vendors lock down their bloat so that rooting is required and in my opinion those should get returned / refunded and the product reviews on sites such as Amazon should warn others rather than rooting the phone. I've returned a few. My uleFone had the least cruft on it and the least lockdown but still uses upwards of 4GB ram after my first pass so I still have a long way to go.

mgbmtl 3y ago

A bit tangential: I was happy to learn about Android apps that can change the home screen, such as Lawnchair (thanks to whoever pointed that out to me, after I had posted an cranky comment that was understandably downvoted). For example, it makes it easier to disable the search on the home screen, and many other tweaks. I also like being able to hide apps from the list of all apps, but they are still accessible using the search. It helps make the bloatware less visible (ex: I don't use the Youtube app, or most other pre-installed apps). I use a Pixel 6 with very few features from Google, and happy with it. Long-term support is the only issue, although they do offer 5 years for security updates, which is better than previous Google models.

gizajob 3y ago

Motorolas

xslvrxslwt 3y ago

Everyone's talking about Pixels yet no one mentions how Pixels batteries are terrible and how 'their' Tensor G2 gets slaughtered by a $200 SD 7 device. Pixel is a big skip, camera clutches and NOTHING ELSE, software (ui/ux) looks and feels terrible.

djaahk 3y ago

I've been enjoying my Nothing Phone (1)a great deal. Very few pre-installed app - I believe just a reskinned version of the weather app; full Android experience and the updates have been very impressive so far. Also, incredibly cost-effective.

herbst 3y ago

Xiaomi let you remove any app. Most more popular ones have a huge ROM community so long term new android builds (no company actually does that)

dangus 3y ago

For the asks you describe, the iPhone is the answer, except for the word “Android.” No Android phone is going to give you the same level of long-term support. iPhones have zero bloatware and you can uninstall first party applications. You’ll get OS releases the day they come out regardless of your phone model.

pSYoniK 3y ago

Pixel 6a/7 (not 7a) for me. I had the Pixel 2 running Graphene OS for about 5 years and got the 6a a while back and put Graphene OS on it. You can get Gapps with Sandboxed Google Play Services, privacy, security and bloatfree experience. Because we have Google chips in these you also get 5 years of security updates (huge bonus!). The 7a has poorer battery life than the 6a/7 so its a poorer choice for my personal use case but ymmv. Otherwise the 6a runs about 3 days for me (got 4 out of it initially but I use my phone very little) or 2 days when driving and needing more usage out of it.

joanne123 3y ago

[dead]

PickledHotdog 3y ago

Motorola/Lenovo have some fairly stock Android options

Annieez 3y ago

[flagged]

tinytuna 3y ago

Why not simply installing lineageos or AOSP instead?

miki_tyler 3y ago
Because with this question I am testing if there is a market for this.
bboygravity 3y ago
Because it is a lot of work, not all phones support/allow rooting, you need to hide root for apps manually for them to work and there's no way to take full backups on Android phone, rooted or not (adb backup is deprecated and never actually worked at all anyway). Meaning: every time you screw up (or get a new phone) you have to start all over, without the ability to restore a backup. This can easily take many days worth of man-hours. Source: I've tried.
- deng 3y ago
  A default LineageOS installation will not be rooted. There are really less and less reasons why you'd even want a rooted phone. The killer feature used to be ad-blocking, but most ad-blockers can work without root nowadays. The backup problem is a notorious problem with any Android phone, I don't understand what it has to do with custom ROMs.
  - witx 3y ago
    > I don't understand what it has to do with custom ROMs. If I don't feel confident I'll be able to get a custom ROM working on my phone I'll have 2nd thoughts about erasing the original ROM
  - fensgrim 3y ago
    "A default LineageOS installation" as in "a device which is officially supported through https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/" is like that, indeed, and while most of the unofficial builds come with as -userdebug, no root, there's a high chance of encountering either a flaky build (permissive selinux) or having to fallback to a GSI build, some of them, and nowadays it means AndyCGYan's [0], come with optional root enabled. As for backup: stock backup facilities (adb backup/restore) aren't exactly the best thing for sure, (rip Titanium Backup, Seedvault isn't even remotely there), and TWRP is broken on most of devices with modern encryption support (specifically, on Pixels). Coincidentally, Mediatek SoC based devices are the 'best' when talking about backup (as in: you can dump and clone all partitions through a built-in service mode [1]). 0. https://sourceforge.net/projects/andyyan-gsi/files/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/andyyan-gsi/files/ 1. https://github.com/bkerler/mtkclient https://github.com/bkerler/mtkclient

mikece 3y ago

Google Pixel: what you’re wanting is exactly why it was made. (Added bonus: you can shed even more bloat by installing Graphene OS, something that requires a Pixel at the moment.)

miki_tyler 3y ago
From what I know, Google typically provides support for Pixel phones for about 3 years, which is relatively shorter compared to the 5-year support period offered by Apple for iPhones. I wonder if there are better alternatives available.
- stuckinadrawer 3y ago
  For the latest Pixel phones they guarantee 5 years of support by now.
  - Maro 3y ago
    For the latest Pixel 6 and 7s, they guarantee 3 yrs of Android OS updates and 5 yrs of security updates: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#zippy=%2Cpixel-later https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#z...
    - DANmode 3y ago
      Hasn't compatibility mostly stayed the same since Android 4.4?
      - DANmode 3y ago
        Anyway, my point is: aren't the security patches enough?
        Freak_NL 3y ago
        For two additional years? Probably.

sphars 3y ago

Honestly, the Pixel phones are probably the best compromise between your requirements. While Samsung gets slightly longer support, the bloatware, IMO, is just too much (depends on your definition of bloatware though). Plus the Pixels are first for latest Android and are generally well-supported with third-party ROMs (Lineage, Graphene, AOSP, etc). So my suggestion is the Pixels, (the "a" series for a less expensive choice).

miki_tyler 3y ago
Indeed. I was wondering if perhaps there are other choices out there.
- DANmode 3y ago
  What about the Pixel lineup isn't fulfilling your tastes?
bobsmooth 3y ago
I like a lot of the built-in Samsung apps.
- sneak 3y ago
  How about the ones that surveil your usage of the device and phone it all home to Samsung? The issue isn't bloat - the issue is spyware.
- fomine3 3y ago
  In other words, Stock Android still isn't great. Samsung sometimes makes it better.
  - swah 3y ago
    Yeah, I feel like I have only one complain (camera lag) otherwise a S-line Samsung is awesome (and better than iOS for me, though I'm using an iPhone at the moment because the camera is awesome). People seem to forget how ugly it was in the Samsung S5 times...

everybodyknows 3y ago

Google started a program back in 2014 to encourage other hardware vendors to build just such things. It is alas, now on hospice care, with death imminent: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One

jmrm 3y ago
I had the Mi A1 since its release until a couple months (fall in a water bucket and broke), and it was a perfect phone at that time: Pure Android experience with no bloatware, 2 full days of battery with moderate usage, a decent screen, fast, confortable to use, and also was cheap. Nowadays most Android phones have plenty of bloat and lack some specifications unless you spend some money. It's sad how a cheap phone that were usable was €150 to €200 and now the bracket is between €300 and €350.
taubek 3y ago
Android One was one of the best things that has happened to Android ecosystem. To bad it is gone :(

Daegalus 3y ago

The Pixel is the closest. The reason you don't see long term support on Android is because of Qualcomm. Qualcomm wants manufacturers to build on new chips, so they deprecate older chips and stop support. Most manufacturers don't want to hire kernel and hardware devs. Samsung can pull off longer support because of Exynos and they have a lot of inhouse expertise to extend support on old Qualcomm chips. It's all money. They don't want you keeping a phone for 5 years. Apple can do it because they lock you into their walled garden where they can double and triple dip on getting your money. They also build their own chips.

hatsune 3y ago
Quite not true. LOS does not need to hack kernal of all deprecated chips to update everything to much higher android ver. There are no reasons manufacturer can't do that. It's a choice made by manufacturer not Qualcomm.
SCdF 3y ago
Are you saying that Pixel's abysmal long term support record is because Google can't afford to hire kernel and hardware devs? Or does Qualcomm lock them out even with those people after some number of years?
- masklinn 3y ago
  > Are you saying that Pixel's abysmal long term support record is because Google can't afford to hire kernel and hardware devs? Not can’t, don’t want to. If it‘s not going to save or make money, company isn’t going to bother. And Google is on a cost-cutting crusade right now so absent an external motivation it’s going to happen even less.
wiseowise 3y ago
> Apple can do it because they lock you into their walled garden where they can double and triple dip on getting your money. Funny way to spell “provide quality service compared to competitors”.
- 3y ago

rsv29 3y ago

We use Nokia and Motorola phones in our lab as they have the near stock Android experience. the bloatware can be quickly turned off. Typically 2 years support is what I have seen.

stuckinadrawer 3y ago

If you are in Europe you could take a look at the Fairphone 4. It's designed to last long and it's repairable as well.

scscsc 3y ago
I have just seen someone using such a phone. It looks good, just a tiny bit bulky. Not sure on how it will do long term. My OnePlus has been serving me well for more than 3 years now.
- iExploder 3y ago
  some people dont mind a tiny bit of bulk, some people dont mind kids mining cobalt barehanded and getting cancer in the process
  - dainiusse 3y ago
    This is no argument. Both of them have batteries and both pose the same risks.
    - iExploder 3y ago
      This is no argument. Both cats and lions have legs and both pose the same risk.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > Not sure on how it will do long term. Haven't they been around long enough now to answer that?

maxk42 3y ago

I switched from Motorola to OnePlus after the former began shipping bloat ware by default. There's a little bloatware in OnePlus but it's not too bad.

chillbill 3y ago

Pixel with GrapheneoS

jillesvangurp 3y ago

The short answer is no. There is the Google Pixel. But it has limited updates and proprietary software for things like the camera. That camera is really nice though and it's as close as the Android experience Google intended to ship because this basically is Google's version of Android. I have the Pixel 6 and it's fine. Nokia stays close to that but ships their own camera app. It too has limited updates that run out after a few years. Other than the camera software, it's basically "stock android". I'm not sure there even is a stock version for the camera at this point. There are plenty of alternative camera apps though. I always had a weak spot for open camera, which is nice. My previous phone was a Nokia 7 plus. The camera was not great but otherwise a fine phone. The fairphone is probably the closest to what you want. But you are buying older hardware and at a premium. And fairphone OS is based on an older version of Android and also limited in time for updates. The updates run out at some point though they are pretty good at keeping the security patches going. Repairability is great though. In short, long term support is hard to get. No-one seems to be willing/capable of doing that. At best you have phones that become unsupported at some point but at least allow you to install alternative firmware (without any promises or support).

lxn 3y ago
I agree with everything you said about Fairphone, but their software support is decent when it comes for security updates (major Android versions upgrades are not guaranteed). They offer 5 years which is way better than average. Their track record is also good I would say. Fairphone 2 started with Android 5 and it currently offered Android 10 upgrade. https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9979180437393-Fairphone-OS https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/997918043739...
- berkes 3y ago
  I've been exclusively on Fairphones since Fairphone 1. Recently switched from FairphoneOS (the stripped, bloatfree, google-free Android) back to stock Android¹ Its updates are fast, steady and consistently good (and improving). The FP1 is ten years old, and still works (though android there is EOL and old, and spare parts no longer available), my FP2 and an FP3 work fine, I can still get parts and Android isn't too old. The hardware is slow, and old, though (e.g. no 5G, power hungry BT, puny camera by current standards). The FP4 is top notch. Spare parts are cheap (e.g. Replaceable battery only €29, new screen only €80), android 12 good enough. But it does have stuff like Google Meet or TV that I would like to remove but cannot. ¹I'm diabetic. Monitoring and Pump control is moving from dedicated electronics to native apps. And they often require Google Android, cannot or will not run on degoogled android. Same for banking and payment apps.

hbcondo714 3y ago

Discussions today on the new Asus Zenphone 10 say no bloatware (compared to Samsung at least) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36528607 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36528607

dimitrisscript 3y ago

The Nothing Phone 1 has minimal bloatware, maybe 2 or 3 apps.

noman-land 3y ago

Get a Pixel and install GrapheneOS, it's really really good!

nottheengineer 3y ago

Fairphone is great, but expensive for the hardware and not available everywhere. A pixel with grapheneOS, calyxOS or /e/OS would be the next best thing.

_trackno5 3y ago

Your best bet is probably a Pixel with something like GrapheneOS or CalyxOS on it. Android manufacturers suck in terms of long term support. Samsung offers the longest support, but their phones are full of bloat. and they recently passed some ToC updates that prevent you from suing them which I find a super anti-consumer move. If you can compromise on long term support and don’t care much about photos, the Asus Zenfone 10 is probably your best bet

Freak_NL 3y ago
A Pixel with GrapheneOS works well for me. It seems like the best compromise at the moment.

cvalka 3y ago

Pixel. Others: Fairphone, Nokia, Nothingphone.

deng 3y ago

I always get a used phone (2-3 years old) that is officially supported by LineageOS. I've made good experiences with Motorola Moto G phones. A good alternative are Pixels or OnePlus. My current phone is a Motorola Moto G6 Plus, which was released in 2018, now running LineageOS 20 (Android 13) just fine.

aceazzameen 3y ago
I've always wanted to try LineageOS on one of my older devices. But I always end up getting a device that never has Lineage support. I have a Samsung Note 4, Note 8, and now Note 20 Ultra. Meanwhile, support is for Note 3, 9, and 10.
2-718-281-828 3y ago
same here. second hand phones. usually oneplus. totally happy with lineage on them.

neilv 3y ago

At this time, I'd get a device on which I can install GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices Note that the particular device unit (not model) must have an unlockable bootloader (so, probably not a unit that was solid by a carrier that disables this): https://grapheneos.org/install/web#enabling-oem-unlocking https://grapheneos.org/install/web#enabling-oem-unlocking

laktak 3y ago
Can you run normal banking apps on graphne?
- Chatter9220 3y ago
  Yes you can! I do a lot of banking on GrapheneOS. You might want to check this site out to see if your bank app works though: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... Even if your app isn't listed there, there's still a chance that it'll work. Mine isn't listed on that site, but it still works with no issues.
  - public_defender 3y ago
    Wow, thanks a million for that link. My banking app was not working but I found "Exploit protection compatibility mode" in the relevant thread, and now it works again.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
    I will back this up by saying that all the banking apps (plural) I run on GrapheneOS run perfectly fine. I don't even have Google Play Services installed, either.

system2 3y ago

Do yourself a favor, buy an iPhone.

azangru 3y ago
Not until I can have a real Google Chrome (rather than a Chrome-themed Safari) running on it.
- nottorp 3y ago
  That would be best of both worlds, send your data to both Apple and Google ;)
jamesnorden 3y ago
Ah yes, the phone where you can't even disable stock apps at all, very insightful.
- system2 3y ago
  You probably will understand me when you are expecting very important business call but your Android phone doesn't ring because the operating system decided to crash.

seized 3y ago

As a long time Pixel user.... Pixel. My Pixel 5 is a perfect phone. Stable (125+ days uptime a few times), fast, no Samsung style bloat.

richliss 3y ago

Get a Fairphone or old Pixel and stick Calyxos on it :-)

mrweasel 3y ago
Can you install pretty much any app on CalyxOS, without involving Google?
- roumenguha 3y ago
  It depends. Are there any apps you want to know about specifically? I'm running CalyxOS right now and can try. My banking apps work fine, surprisingly. And some Google (Gmail, Phone, and Fi) apps too, surprisingly, but not all (eg Meet, Messages, and Fit)
  - mrweasel 3y ago
    Mostly just Signal, and a good maps app. TOPT apps I'd assume is readily available. The only other app I regularly use otherwise is ErgData from Concept2, but they offer the APK file for download. I do have a local payment app, which would be nice to not lose, but it's not a hard requirement. The number of apps I use these days are surprisingly low.

rpgbr 3y ago

Get a second hand phone with great LineageOS and give it a shot. It’s phenomenal how better a, let’s say, Motorola phone gets when you replace pre-installed Android with Google-free LineageOS one.

BLKNSLVR 3y ago
It seriously feels like the hardware has been upgraded.

ShamelessGenius 3y ago

I bought Pixel 7a and flashed GrapheneOS and running it without a single Google app. My experience has been pretty good so far.

jcul 3y ago
Does the camera work as well as with the stock OS? I've used custom ROMs for years, but never used Graphene. My current phone is a Xiaomi Mi9T. With a custom ROM, to properly make use of the camera you need to flash a magisk module. Otherwise you are stuck with the stock android camera app which doesn't perform nearly as well. This phone is on its last legs, the screen was smashed so I had to replace it with a cheaper LCD, which has affected battery life and sometimes is unresponsive. Thinking about getting a used Pixel 6 and giving Graphene a go.
- susanthenerd 3y ago
  Graphene OS has its own camera app that is not that good, but people have run the google camera app on it without issues
- jonas-w 3y ago
  You can use the google camera app, but they are trying to make their own Camera app as good as the official App. > Google Camera can take full advantage of the available cameras and image processing hardware as it can on the stock OS and does not require GSF or sandboxed Google Play on GrapheneOS. Direct TPU and GXP access by Google apps including Google Camera is controlled by a toggle added by GrapheneOS and doesn't provide them with any additional access to data. The toggle exists for attack surface reduction. Every app can use the TPU and GXP via standard APIs including the Android Neural Networks API and Camera2 API regardless. > We aim to reduce the benefits of Google Camera compared to GrapheneOS Camera over time, especially on Pixels. Many features of Google Camera will end up being available for GrapheneOS Camera in the next year or so via CameraX extensions including more aggressive HDR+, Night Sight and Portrait. Video features such as slow motion and time lapse are likely further away than within the next year. These video features could potentially be provided via CameraX vendor extensions or could be implemented via our own post-processing of the video output. Panorama, Photo Sphere, Astrophotography, Motion Photos, Frequent Faces, Dual Exposure Controls, Google Lens, etc. aren't on the roadmap for GrapheneOS Camera. Video frame rate configuration and H.265 support should be available for GrapheneOS Camera in the near future via CameraX improvements along with DNG (RAW) support in the further future. All the info: https://grapheneos.org/usage#camera https://grapheneos.org/usage#camera

DeathArrow 3y ago

Android is designed with bloatware and crapware in mind. Your best bet is to install an alternative ROM such as LineageOS.

leon_theremin 3y ago

[flagged]

cookiengineer 3y ago
> BadBIOS Do you know a legit reverse engineered PoC of it? or a legit dump of the firmware? I mean, it's theoretically possible. I don't doubt that since vault7 malware leaks, but is there an actual copy of something like this available? If anyone knew about it, I'd assume the 1vyrain people definitely would.
- leon_theremin 3y ago
  It is not implemented on firmware, but as a silicon trojan. It doesn't use sound, but EMF. It won't be exposed in full easily though as criminals with access to it currently work to prevent anyone from doing so.
  - cookiengineer 3y ago
    > It won't be exposed in full easily though as criminals with access to it currently work to prevent anyone from doing so. Do you have evidence or links to articles supporting this?

dagurp 3y ago

My last two phones were both Motorola partly because of this.

dezgeg 3y ago
Can relate, I've been very happy with my Moto G 5G Plus. No bloatware, and with its included rubber shell it even survived an one story fall without any damage.

em-bee 3y ago

murena sells phones with /e/OS preinstalled. for my mother i installed /e/OS myself, but if she had to get a new phone while i am not around i'd point here to that website and tell her to get one of those. /e/OS is free of bloat, yet easy to use.

_rdvw 3y ago
/e/OS is currently 7 months behind security updates for the browser/webview for the second time in a row and has a PDF viewer not updated since 2016 yet considers itself the "state of the art" in security. See my full list of issues with it here: https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt

yankput 3y ago

Fairphone is the closest. (Only available in Europe.) https://shop.fairphone.com/en https://shop.fairphone.com/en The negative is the really really awful camera.

mdp2021 3y ago
Does the Fairphone require a Google account, or can it be used like the traditional Android systems - airgapped, never connected to the Internet? I understand that the latest Android systems require an account to initialize the device - they have disabled the "Skip" [connection to the Internet] button when you first turn them on.
- progval 3y ago
  On the FP3, you need to accept the Google ToU to unlock the bootloader (confirmed with FP's support), but you don't need an account.

ludovicianul 3y ago

OnePlus is pretty close to stock. Very fast, very good battery. It's the only Android I've loved before switching to iPhone. I have a Samsung and a OnePlus 5T bought in the same period (around 5 years ago). The OnePlus still rocks 1 day battery with medium usage, while the Samsung is dead in a couple of hours.

manojlds 3y ago
If your experience with OnePlus is from OnePlus 5T times, I have some bad news for you..
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Same. I had the OP 3T, best phone I ever had. Moved to the OP 7T worst phone I ever had, slow updates, and every update brought it's own set of bugs. OnePlus went down the drain, avoid them like the plague.
- KnobbleMcKnees 3y ago
  What's the news? I have a 9 pro. Has a single uninstallable app (OP store) and battery life is over a day.
- ludovicianul 3y ago
  That's sad to hear. I had the One, the 3T (both sold) and still having the 5T. They were all great phones.
bodge5000 3y ago
I'm still using my 5T to this day as well and feel like its easily got another year or two of life in it
haspok 3y ago
The battery in my 5T is at 75%, still acceptable. But the headphone jack socket is basically unusable, because it is so worn, and I have similar issues with the USB-C socket, although that also depends on the cable. Not sure what I'm gonna replace it with eventually, I'd just have a new battery if it was replaceable...

ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago

Pixel 6 or newer (so Google silicon, so 5 years guaranteed support) plus GrapheneOS.

pyrelight 3y ago

Motorola does a pretty good job. Their "bloatware" is mostly the Moto app, which provides really handy and reliable gestures like a double "chop" to toggle flashlight, twisting the phone a few times to enable the camera, three-finger screenshot trigger, etc. Their phones are really solid but they do lag on OS updates, and their cameras are never good.

djaychela 3y ago
Came here to say pretty much exactly that. I've been on a series of moto G phones, from the 5 to my current G83. Good value, the moto app actually adds functionality without being a drag (or even mandatory to use). Cameras are always sub-par (partner has pixels, and I'm light years behind), although the latest is the least bad in comparison with her current phone. Current one has survived most of me building a home extension with little damage...previous one developed an intermittent screen touch issue, but only after I dropped it 12 feet onto a concrete floor,so I can't complain on reliability either.
- Crosseye_Jack 3y ago
  > but only after I dropped it 12 feet onto a concrete floor My brain went right to old Nokia phones and I thinking "Thank fuck it was a Motorola, back in the day you would have to had the foundations checked over if it had been an Nokia" But yeah, Always been happy with Motorola G phones (bar the cvamera, but I'm not really a photo person anyway), I still have an old 2014 Moto G to test apps on old devices/Android.
- agent008t 3y ago
  Just want to mention that the moto camera is made FAR worse by the software. E.g. video on my moto would always be blurry due to bad de-noising settings used by stock software. mcpro24fps allowed me to take dramatically better videos. The difference was HUGE. Same with photos. Custom gcam roms, after a long time of trying different ones and tweaking, gave me dramatically higher quality photos. Again, night and day difference. So the hardware is fine; they shoot themselves in the foot with the software.

devit 3y ago

Google Pixel, install GrapheneOS on it

jpmoral 3y ago

Pretty happy with my 3+ year old Nokia 5.4. It's been pretty good at getting OS and security updates. Came with Google apps and no Samsung-style apps.

pestatije 3y ago
same here...nokia 5.3, upgraded to android 12 without issues...love it

codeulike 3y ago

Fairphone 4

mrweasel 3y ago
I'm really interested in the Fairphone as my next phone, but which OS to go with. I'm currently on an older iPhone, because given the choice of the two, I trust Apple slightly more than Google. You can load at least a few different alternative operating system, but finding one that will give me at the very least Signal is proving difficult.

aborsy 3y ago

I’m curious how do pixel phones and pixelbooks running ChromeOS compare with iPhone and MacBooks running macOS in terms of security? I know in terms of privacy, Google is worse due to built in telemetry (and cloud based chromeos). If there is no security benefit either, then there doesn’t seem to be a major reason to prefer Google’s products over apple’s. Pixels aren’t much cheaper either (particularly considering the shorter support period).

melvyn2 3y ago
Because apple software has no telemetry?
- aborsy 3y ago
  Apple collects less (and has better privacy settings).

Saris 3y ago

Also going to say Pixel. They come without really any bloat, but most models are also well supported by LineageOS, GrapheneOS or others if you wanted to get more privacy.

hospitalJail 3y ago

Might be worth checking out the Zenfone. Aux port + no bloatware. Or at least nothing like samsung.

dtagames 3y ago

Sony makes several very nice high-end Xperia phones and all of their stuff is stock Android.

Faark 3y ago
Agree, am on Sony as well. Just make sure to pick one that is widely used and thus have other distros available. Had that with my previous one, so didn't check with my current... AOSP available, but not great. I went back to a stock image and continued from there...

crote 3y ago

I recently looked into this due to my old device breaking. The best options are: - Google Pixel - Motorola - Nokia I ended up with a Google Pixel 7. The Motorola Edge 40 was a close contender, but I ended up axing it from the list due to the curved screen edge. My selection criteria were: cleanest Android possible; latest Android version; long-term support; wireless charging; decent IP rating. My previous phones were a Moto G2 and Nokia 6.1, for comparison. The first one replaced due to the charging port dying and running out of storage, the second one having its screen destroyed by dropping it on a tile floor.

wanderingmind 3y ago

If you are OK with spending a couple of hours, buy a Motorola phone that is supported by LineageOS[1] and install microg+ LineageOS(2) It can spoof Play services and so most Apps from Play store will work. [1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#motorola https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#motorola (2) https://download.lineage.microg.org/ https://download.lineage.microg.org/

uhtred 3y ago
Could also skip the work and buy a murena (/e/os) phone preinstalled with /e/OS which is based on lineageOS and has MicroG installed already. https://murena.com/ https://murena.com/
- _rdvw 3y ago
  /e/OS is currently 7 months behind security updates for the browser/webview for the second time in a row and has a PDF viewer not updated since 2016 yet considers itself the "state of the art" in security. See my full list of issues with it here: https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt https://divestos.org/misc/e.txt

readingnews 3y ago

I am not sure where you are located... I was on the Nothing Beta program and received a nothing 1 phone. I have been a longtime root-unjail-roll-your-own phone user. The Nothing is probably the most bloat-free in recent memory. Sure, the google apps (gmail, files, maps) are on it, and it comes with weather, but that seems to be it, and the rest you can easily uninstall without pain.

routerl 3y ago
+1 for the Nothing phone. It does remind me a lot of the OnePlus One, back in the day.

ParetoOptimal 3y ago

Pixel 7 and grapheneOS is phenomenal. It's also trivial to install thanks to their web installer. Best buy trip to working grapheneOS took under an hour.

valeg 3y ago

Phones manufactured under Nokia brand and Fairphone.

lawgimenez 3y ago

I think nobody has mentioned the gaming phones like Infinix. I bought Infinix as a test device and was surprised with the affordable price and large storage. And importantly I haven't noticed any bloatware apps.

Zufriedenheit 3y ago

Gigaset. + Stock android afaik + 5 Year updates + Swappable battery and still IP68 - a bit older hardware and higher price It's the only smartphone assembled in Germany so not sure if its available where you live.

euniceee3 3y ago
Or if the modem will support the bands where they are at.

tristor 3y ago

Yes, it's called an iPhone. There are no options for Android unless you flash it with your own ROM. Your best bet is a Pixel running GrapheneOS if you're adamant you want to be on Android.

xwowsersx 3y ago

I'm on the Pixel 7 Pro (had the 6 Pro previously). From my perspective, it's the Android experience intended by Google (it is their flagship phone after all). I'm very happy with it. But yes it does have some other Google servicey things you may or may not want.

GenericPoster 3y ago

So why do you need the latest android version and why long term support? If you are a nobody, there isn't a need to pay for the "latest and greatest". Security updates are a meme and just a way to add more bloat. Don't download apk's from unknown sources, use an adblocker and that's 99% of all attack vectors closed. That only leaves pre-installed bloatware, a legitimate issue that can be solved with a few steps. The phone doesn't matter but get something android 10 or higher, their selective permissions are nice but you can go as low as android 6 without too many issues. But you might have app compatibility problems. During phone setup, don't immediately connect to the internet. If you can uninstall the apps do that. Otherwise, force stop and clear data of every installed app that you don't think you will ever use. As long as the apps don't open or take up ram or cpu cycles then the phone is functionally 'bloat free' Remove all of the permissions that don't make sense. Your calendar doesn't need access to your microphone or even contacts. Turn off all settings that even hint at telemetry including locations. Once this is done, you can connect to the internet. Download fdroid through the browser and look for a local VPN that is capable of blocking access to apps and has a decent permissions menu. Get that configured and then you are good to go. The local vpn will almost certainly break things the first time you use it. But you can just tweak it and as long as you aren't installing any new apps very often you won't have any problems. Stick with open source apps as much as you can. And only update Apps when they break or if there is a feature you really want. Don't actually do anything important on your phone like banking but if you have a browser with adblock then that's fine but keep it minimal. I like this method because it's phone agnostic. I don't have to settle for a pixel or another phone that I need to get root on. If this sounds like too much and you don't want to flash a new OS, then just get an iphone.

themodelplumber 3y ago
> Security updates are a meme and just a way to add more bloat. What. Are you serious? You mean in general or on certain brands for example?
- GenericPoster 3y ago
  I am and in general. I've bought and used android devices that haven't received updates for at least 3-7 years. It's a phone. If you can make calls and text, it's already doing it's job. If you have a device that regularly receives security updates then it's up to you to download it but the idea of getting rid of a functioning device just because its no longer receiving security updates is ridiculous. Especially since these devices often get sent to developing countries. The entire security theatre for consumer devices is incredibly overblown. Sure there was a time where viruses and malware ran rampant, but those times have passed but companies don't make money if they don't sell new devices so their incentives and yours don't align. For computers, it depends but as long as you're not downloading sketchy shit and have an adblocker then you're fine. And once again, all of this applies as long as you're a nobody, which is at least 70% of the population. Those who don't work in government, medical, aren't businesses etc.

dimitar 3y ago

I'm using a Fairphone 4 and there is 0 bloatware, with a range of other benefits you might like - user replaceable parts and serviceability

ixxie 3y ago
I can second this. My carrier (Orange France) did put some crap in there, but otherwise nothing.

OJFord 3y ago

The 'Android One' line/programme. Phone has to be pretty stock, and commit to some number of years of updates and more of security updates in order to qualify. Or of course a Pixel, though if you don't use all of Google's stuff you might consider they come with more 'pre-installed bloatware'. They'll also probably always be supported by Lineage, so you could install that when official updates dry up, or just from day one to avoid 'bloat'.