31 ms·

Outlook now ignores Windows' Default Browser and opens links in Edge by default

893 points by mfwit 3y ago

mrlatinos 3y ago
Also, it opens the email itself in a sidebar. Edge has been super hostile in the past few months, and it seems to coincide with the Bing Chat push. So much garbage like Workspaces and Discover.
causi 3y ago
What if you've removed Edge from your system?
- jabroni_salad 3y ago
  you might find that it mysteriously reappears
  - jeltz 3y ago
    Source? You may very well be correct but I would like to see a source for such a claim.
    - netsharc 3y ago
      Windows has had a mechanism called Windows Resource Protection[1] for a long while now, if you delete notepad.exe (I guess nowadays that file isn't even deletable), after a few seconds it will reappear again. If you delete edge.exe (or whatever it's called) or replace it with a copy of, let's say firefox.exe, the WRP will see the file has been removed/modified and restore it, because somewhere inside C:\Windows there's a backup copy of the files.. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Resource_Protection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Resource_Protection, previously Windows File Protection, introduced in Windows 2000.
  - timbit42 3y ago
    What if I tell my A/V it is malware to keep it from being reinstalled?
- monsieurgaufre 3y ago
  I was able with winget in the past. Dont know if it is still possible.
- stranded22 3y ago
  I didn’t think it could be easily removed (yes - I appreciate the audience here) - and if removed, it is so ingrained into the OS I expect the problems it’ll cause would be incredibly frustrating…
  - pierat 3y ago
    Microsoft's cramware is always "inexorably integrated at the deepest of levels", all the way back to Windows95 when they shoveled IE in OSR2 And it's always a 100% complete lie, and abusing their monopoly position.
    - recursive 3y ago
      It's not a lie that mshtml.dll was the IE (trident) renderer. And it's not a lie that it was a dependency for a number of OS features.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  Haha nice try. Ready for a 15 minute long process that will restore itself in the future, not to mention trusting some random website for a guide.
gbraad 3y ago
I believe I have seen the same behaviour on Android for their apps.
- jeltz 3y ago
  Virtually all apps do this and some like Google Chat and Facebook Messenger do not even allow you to change browser.
- privacyking 3y ago
  That's different and an unfair comparison. Android will open the system browser (which will be chromium based in most instances). It can't just open the default browser because that might break certain functions of android apps if the non system default browser is broken
  - Regnore 3y ago
    Doesn't your comment apply equally to all platforms including Windows?
  - probably_wrong 3y ago
    That argument is surprisingly similar to the one that Microsoft argued back in their antitrust case [1]: that "the merging of Windows and IE was the result of innovation and competition" and "that the two were now the same product and inextricably linked". For those who were too young at the time, Microsoft lost the first instance of that trial and eventually reached a settlement. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_C....
  - gbraad 3y ago
    just checked, and Bing opens their own webview. I believe when Edge is installed they opt to use this first before. you get the option to use the default, but this is not happening without interaction. note: not going to test this further... but regardless, why not use your default!
- microflash 3y ago
frob 3y ago
Windows is just full of hostile, anti-user patterns these days. I've considered building a windows box just to have a gaming rig multiple times over the last few years, but every time an article like this or their crusade against Chrome reminds me that Bill Gates is still the same anti-trust monster he was in the 90s.
- creshal 3y ago
  Gaming on Linux is a joy these days. Less driver bugs than in Win10/11 in my experience.
- postalrat 3y ago
  Well at least Microsoft allows you to install other browsers. Apple only allows skins for their mobile browser.
  - jeltz 3y ago
    That is on iOS, on MacOS they allow other browsers and respect the systemwide defaults. Personally I use Linux unless forced to use something else by my employer.
    - Analemma_ 3y ago
      > That is on iOS, on MacOS they allow other browsers and respect the systemwide defaults. Why is that in any way exonerating? Most people do most of their actual computing on their phones now, it is not an irrelevant toy platform. We should be more, not less, hard on Apple than Microsoft for pulling this shit on their mobile platform.
      - hospitalJail 3y ago
        Apple sells the ability to be part of an 'in-group'. People don't buy their phones for their computing abilities, they do it to have access to other Apple users. Its a psychology trick that took decades of marketing to pull off, but they are deeply entrenched as someone's identity. These users have a religious devotion and will defend them, because an attack on Apple is an attack on them and their group. If you don't care about a corporate in-group, you are most likely wanting a quality computing platform. Which is why people are so hard on Google an Microsoft when they restrict computing.
trollied 3y ago
The title is a little clickbaity - the behaviour can be changed: “ Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that. ” Having said that, Microsoft seem to be entering another phase of baiting antitrust regulators.
- jeltz 3y ago
  That is very annoying. On s related note I personally hate how I need to enter the settings of every app on my phone to tell them not to use the embedded browser? Why would I ever want to use something which is not my default browser? The only scenario I csn see is offering to open in private browsing but still in my browser or something like tor. Just some web view makes no sense. And this is similar. There is no non-malicious use case for this setting that I can see.
  - creshal 3y ago
    On Android at least, browsers can also provide the "embedded" overlay, and Fennec, Vivaldi, etc. all do, so it's not really necessary to mess with app settings, changing the system default browser is enough. On iOS, it's mandatory, because Apple says so.
- mfwit 3y ago
  The only reason I realized this was a thing is because a coworker blew past the initial popup about the behavior and couldnt figure out what the hell was going on. Users don't pay attention to this stuff. And then when you have to go back and switch it to the correct behavior of using the default browser, they've buried the option in Outlook (Options > Advanced > Link Handling).
- AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
  It can, although having just received it this morning, it definitely changes first and asks you to roll it back afterwards, rather than being opt-in. It's still obnoxious.
- tylerag 3y ago
userbinator 3y ago
Microsoft is always striving to improve and streamline our product experiences—offering a new way to use the classic Microsoft Outlook app on Windows and the Microsoft Edge web browser. to help you stay engaged in conversations as you browse the web. I wonder if the people who write this sort of BS-filled prose really believe in what they're writing. To be completely honest, the style almost sounds like LLM output.
- reliablereason 3y ago
  It is likely written by some copywriter. That person believes in nothing, they are simply performing a task that has been assigned to them.
  - detritus 3y ago
    > That person believes in nothing Ouch!
  - klardotsh 3y ago
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”...
- blq10 3y ago
  They usually believe some of it, because they're spin doctors not idiots. Edge is pretty OK, good even compared to Firefox's speed issues and Chrome being Chrome.
- shever73 3y ago
  I asked ChatGPT to write the announcement, and it was very close to this kind of language: https://chat.openai.com/share/67c7c09f-e01d-494b-aac3-0104b95d0da6 https://chat.openai.com/share/67c7c09f-e01d-494b-aac3-0104b9...
- chillbill 3y ago
  It’s the other way around: LLM output sounds like (and is) BS people wrote earlier.
moss2 3y ago
Glad I uninstalled Windows and use Ubuntu on all my computers
- david422 3y ago
  I did this many years ago, ran into a bunch of issues and switched back. Tried again maybe 4 (?) years ago and have stuck with it - everything is pretty smooth for my purposes now. I do run into some random issues sometimes - like display drivers randomly resetting. That seems to be the biggest one.
  - TheDesolate0 3y ago
    [dead]
  - BirAdam 3y ago
    I actually switch to Tiny11 after a little over 2 decades of only Linux… mostly due to performance issues on newer hardware. Windows does substantially better on graphics and Wi-Fi on my desktop, so there it goes.
  - Hizonner 3y ago
    Windows has random issues, too. Everything has random issues. When it happens on Windows, people think it's Just The Way Computers Are, but when it happens on anything but Windows, it's Not Ready For Prime Time.
    - II2II 3y ago
      You're absolutely correct on your assessment and it makes them sound absolutely ridiculous when you are on the other side of the fence. I have used Linux for decades and barely notice its issues. Every time I use Windows, all I notice are the issues. It has nothing to do with being biased towards one operating system or another. Rather, it is the outcome of being accustomed to something and unfamiliar with the other. People should really try putting themselves into the place of those they are speaking to before making broad statements, and temper those statements with the realization that different people have different experiences and expectations.
hardware2win 3y ago
Is this because not all browsers support stuff equally? A few days ago on fresh windows install I couldnt watch netflix on ff/edge, but on chrome it worked. Player error. I guess it was related to some missing drivers?
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  This is funny since, according to Netflix, it has better support for edge than for chrome. https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742
  - Goronmon 3y ago
    My understanding for that is because Edge implements DRM and allows up to 4k resolutions, which you can't get on other browsers in Windows.
- themoonisachees 3y ago
  Tip: spoof your user agent to a chrome one and Netflix magically fixes itself :)
- bradly 3y ago
  It is opening the links in a sidebar pane so you can view your email and the link contents at the same time. You now aren't being taken out of Outlook to view the page.
bbotond 3y ago
I switched to Linux 4 years ago because of these dark patterns. No regrets.
- procarch2019 3y ago
  I think anyone using outlook is probably using it out of necessity for work. Not everyone can just jump to Linux when they work in a company.
  - 1ain0n_dev 3y ago
    Do you not have different machines for work and personal use?
    - procarch2019 3y ago
      I don’t do more work outside of my professional work. I get away with just my phone and an iPad for everything else.
  - extr0pian 3y ago
    I'm using Thunderbird on Linux with an Outlook work account. Granted, I have to pay for 'Owl for Exchange' for it work, but I absolutely hate the Outlook program, I'm willing to fork out the $10/yr of my own money just to avoid it.
    - jfhufl 3y ago
      If you still have IMAP access, thunderbird supports OAuth2 for connecting to O365 IMAP. tbsync for calendar access. Seems to work pretty well currently.
      - testrun 3y ago
        That is my setup. Works 100%.
      - procarch2019 3y ago
AraceliHarker 3y ago
Windows 11 can multitask and is used on a widescreen display and has the ability to align windows, so why not just put Outlook next to Edge instead of using Edge's sidebar to display email?
mikepurvis 3y ago
Google does something like this with the GMail app on iPhone— you click links and instead of just opening Safari, it pops up a "which browser to use" selector modal, which is really just an advertisement for you to install Chrome.
- yaky 3y ago
  Google Chat on Windows as well. Even if it is “installed as an app”, it does not act like one, and always opens links in Chrome. I understand that the “app” in this case is a Chrome wrapper, but it at least should respect system defaults.
  - shawnz 3y ago
    PWAs in Edge have the same issue -- links clicked inside the PWA always open in Edge. This is especially annoying because certain apps in the Windows store (like Snapchat) are really just Edge PWAs. FirefoxPWA gets it right and opens in the default browser (but it is a bit janky for other reasons).
- yakubin 3y ago
  Same with Google Maps. It’s really annoying.
  - iso1631 3y ago
    One of the reasons I use apple maps, despite apple making it worse over the years
  - princevegeta89 3y ago
    I disabled Chrome on my Samsung device and links from Google Maps always open in my Brave browser which is the default I've set
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  Ditto for Google Maps. The choices, in order, are: - Chrome - Google (?) - Safari - Default browser app I don't know what "google" is, but I don't even have chrome installed. If I click it, it sends me to the app store.
devinprater 3y ago
Ugh can't wait until Linux is accessible for blind people like me. Y'all seen the new Windows File Explorer context menu? Freaking sucks. I'm sure I've posted this here before but dang, it just keeps getting worse.
- eska 3y ago
  Sorry for being ignorant, but I always imagined that the terminal workflow should work much better for blind people than Windows‘ reliance on graphical widgets. Or is the issue elsewhere?
- jasonjmcghee 3y ago
  It's incredible how bad it is. Tiny icons of the most important actions, like copy, paste, rename, along the top that are unique designs with no tooltips. If an action isn't available it's not disabled, but missing entirely. This is all not to mention the new strange delay and how it doesn't match the theme of file explorer at all. And if you want to access to options not in the very limited default ones, you have to click "show more options" that opens the classic menu in the old theme. It's just a mess.
- firebaze 3y ago
  Thanks to wayland, it's about to get even worse instead of better. Linux had surpassed windows in most aspects already (and I am enjoying this - no Windows on any machine, not even for gaming, thanks to Proton), then came Wayland and unfortunately it wasn't widely ignored. Please understand that I understand the reasons behind Wayland, that the Wayland Devs are also behind X, and that X is an awful mess. I know and I believe, but Wayland is still the worst solution for the problem X created, in my humble view. Please also accept that this is not a criticism of the awesomeness of Wayland/X devs. They are awesome. But they also were tired of X, and the result is, Wayland is undercomplex by at least a gut-factor of 10. And anything accessiibility-related is part of that.
dm_me_dogs 3y ago
Microsoft, why?? It's an easy fix sure (within the Microsoft 365 Apps admin center) but why is it so hard for you to respect people's default browser choice?
- elboru 3y ago
  Even respecting the settings. Every time Windows gets an update it asks me if I want to change my Edge settings, the first couple of times I didn’t pay attention and it changed my default search engine and started showing the useless news thumbnails that I explicitly took the time to hide. I’ll need to reconsider Chrome or Firefox, which is a shame since I really liked some Edge’s features.
  - InCityDreams 3y ago
    Try brave browser? The bitcoiny stuff can be hidden (and blocked). As for the rest, I'm remarkably impressed. I even go through the brave://flags for extra oomph. I rn it from a ramdrive, too.
- executesorder66 3y ago
  > why is it so hard for you to respect people's default browser choice Why should microsoft respect anyone if they don't have the self respect to use literally any other OS? They keep getting away with this shit, because people keep letting them. If you choose to use Windows then I have no pity for you.
cm277 3y ago
This does make a bit of sense; Edge on Windows logs you into 365 and keeps the authentication around. So company links/attachments on Outlook can open easier on Edge using the 365 credentials. Now, if only they were actually smarter about which 365 profile's mail you are reading in Outlook (for those of us that are working across multiple orgs) and open the link under that profile on Edge, that would be awesome. Edge makes a lot more sense as a smarter 365 client than it does as a browser, but it's not a bad browser either.
- Sakos 3y ago
  Yeah, no. This is insanity. Firefox can keep your authentication too. Just login on FF or show a prompt. WHAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF TOKENS. It already works perfectly fine with non-Edge browsers. This is ridiculous anti-competitive garbage and I can't believe people are defending it.
SpaceL10n 3y ago
I changed it back to use default browser. It took all of 60 seconds to google the answer. They totally should take a calculated risk like this in order to gain more market share. Exercising control over software defaults rarely causes users to abandon a product entirely. The pain of changing the default back is much less than the pain of finding a new tool. Microsoft will not lose Outlook users by doing this. They will gain Edge users though. Yes, they will enrage the craftspeople who aren't a part of THE GRID, but that still won't affect the bottom line enough to matter.
- jjoonathan 3y ago
  Yes, this dirty tactic will almost certainly work unless we conk them with the regulatory hammer, which we absolutely should. Harder than last time, so that they remember.
- dtx1 3y ago
  > They totally should take a calculated risk like this in order to gain more market share. Exercising God I hope we get another anti competitive lawsuit over shit like this in my lifetime.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- loganc2342 3y ago
  Will this be a “good” move for them, money-wise? Perhaps. SHOULD they do this unequivocally user-unfriendly move? Absolutely not. Businesses SHOULD never screw over their customers for a little extra profit, but of course this sentiment will never stop them.
- mihaaly 3y ago
  They should NOT try this manipulative approach as what remains in the heads is the attitude they employ towards their users: ignoring them! If this was the one and only one of their dirty attempts it may have been gone unnoticed but their attitude they allow themselves is approaching of a scumbag through the repeated user hosility and ruining usability, proactively wasting the time of the very people they live on. There may be many who does not care but growing number of people on the grid - who they ask advice from - will spread the dirtball reputation of Microsoft, reaching a lot of people, fortunately.
rhaway84773 3y ago
I hate this behavior. I’ve stopped using MS first party tools on Windows altogether because of this.
acomjean 3y ago
Its getting worse everywhere: some things I've noticed: Mobil Safari seems to be using the search bar to hijack my google search (Particularly for locations which open in apple maps) Although I'm mostly linux these days I went to install an alternative browser on a windows machine (using edge to download). I mentioned this in another post, but edge seems to watch for "chrome" or "firefox" downloads and politely reminds you that 'Edge is a great browser with added "trust of microsoft"' (A company who happen to be watching when you download a web browser). https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/2/22813733/microsoft-windows-edge-download-chrome-prompts https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/2/22813733/microsoft-window... Linux seems like an OS that is way more respectful.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  I really don't like to use Edge, and I don't like imposed changes, however if you read the article, it says that it can be turned off, or am I missing something? "Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that."
  - post-it 3y ago
    And it'll inevitably turn itself back on after a mandatory upgrade, just like all the other user-hostile things you can turn off.
    - dizhn 3y ago
      Like android playstore notifications. You can turn them off sure. But you'll keep getting the notification that reminds you to turn them on. You only have to say yes once. But it dutifully asks you again and again if you say no to something. These things have become so yawn to me these days.
      - ljm 3y ago
        As has been the case for the past 10 years or so, UX consistently plays second-fiddle to analytics.
hospitalJail 3y ago
The final straw for me and Windows was when I took the time to remove some annoying feature, cortana or edge, can't remember. Then an update replaced my work. It wasnt some 'uninstall program', but a multi-step process that involved registry editing. I don't feel like I have control over Windows.
- gabereiser 3y ago
  You never had control over windows. Not since the ME/XP days. You don’t have control over MacOS either. The only OS you have any control over is Linux and even some of those you don’t.
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    I suppose there was enough freedom from 95-XP, it didn't matter that much. I never had an issue perfectly customizing my experience. Today I can't get rid of ads/news/cortana/edge.
    - marcosdumay 3y ago
      XP was the version that started pushing updates despite whatever you would configure and deny executing if you didn't jump through the correct hops. You still had some amount of control on 95. MS had the power to take your control away at any point, but they didn't at that time.
  - lucb1e 3y ago
    I suppose they weren't as obnoxious/desperate about it in the past, though. I feel like past methods were more about lawsuits and software patents than about annoying every individual consumer that paid for your damn product
- contravariant 3y ago
  I think I mangled the ownership of the folder it tries to install edge in just to prevent it from reinstalling it every single time.
- 3y ago
LegitShady 3y ago
I’m one of the dinosaurs who still uses Skype to talk to some non-computer people who haven’t moved away from it. Skype similarly gets worse and worse each update. They removed the ability to have multiple windows, they made links open in some kind of in-Skype browser I can’t find a setting a to turn off, they added a weather widget which is dumb. Thankfully the weather widget exists, though, because their new in app browser doesn’t have any way to close the in app “window” it opens - no x, nowhere to click to close it. The only way I’ve found to close it is to click the weather widget which loads into the same space and that has an x to close it. I bet they’re getting tons of positive numbers about weather widget use from users just looking to close the shitty in app browser. I don’t know if it even counts as a dark pattern - I can’t tell if the Skype designers are this incompetent or actually hate the few users left still on that shitty platform. Maybe they’re purposely trying to get Microsoft to shut it down by making it worse every update? Every second I use skype I want to get away from it, I just have to convince a handful of people to move as well, or I guess let them know they won’t be able to reach me through there and give up talking to them. I noticed the outlook link handling thing on my personal machine and figured out how to turn it off but damn that was annoying. I’m not going to be annoyed into using edge - I won’t be tricked into it either. Every time this happens my willingness to go along with this gets smaller and smaller. I have a bunch of paid Microsoft licenses - windows, office365, etc. Once gaming off windows matures a little more I think its time to move away from this abusive shit.
stainablesteel 3y ago
so this is their website, showing you how they document the way they taunt their own customers? fucking lmao, linux since years ago don't care
FuriouslyAdrift 3y ago
Right in the KB: "Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that."
- domador 3y ago
  Still inexcusable. They're wasting power users' time by making them have to search for a way to change this unexpected and undesirable setting. I'm glad that the first time Edge hijacked my Outlook link I saw a popup message that allowed me to change the setting to use the default browser. But I could have easily missed it and it would have wasted my time.
- tremon 3y ago
  So ultimately though, Outlook ignores the Default Browser setting of the OS, unless you tell it not to? Does that mean that it's ok for every application to ignore the system-wide settings until you explicitly configure it otherwise? Then what it the point of having system-wide settings in the first place?
andsoitis 3y ago
Isn’t the bigger issue that Edge is really just Chromium with a different UI (AFAIK)?
- RajT88 3y ago
  Correct - Edge is Chromium with a bunch of different features surrounding it. Same core engine. Generally, they release a few days after a Chrome stable release comes out with the same code.
Simulacra 3y ago
It took us half a day to roll back our systems to get rid of the new Outlook. It's a web based email client through an Edge browser window and it's awful. I do not want to use an Edge browser window to access email, I don't want to even have to see the edge browser at all.
karlerss 3y ago
The web based outlook is an extremely well-polished and usable piece of software. You can use it in any browser you like.
- meepmorp 3y ago
  It's been consistently better than the desktop apps for years, too, despite the fact that they're Electron now.
- yrro 3y ago
  It runs like treacle, gobbles memory and pegs my CPU. It's truly, utterly awful.
  - skc 3y ago
    For you.
- globular-toast 3y ago
  It's honestly sad to think there are people who have never used good software.
XorNot 3y ago
Isn't this all an anti-trust thing at this point? Of the type which Microsoft got done for in 2000s?
aezart 3y ago
I don't understand how Microsoft benefits from getting everyone to use their web browser? Is it all to spy on people's browsing habits?
- quacked 3y ago
  Ad revenue from increased user count, spying on browsing habits, scraping user-input data, and promotion-hunting by product managers who want to advertise how their new feature led to X million more clicks per day.
- Larrikin 3y ago
  I assume every website I look at on Chrome is sent to Google, I don't see Microsoft not doing the same. But the thing Google has and Microsoft wants is to be in full control of web standards.
- yrro 3y ago
  The more people use Edge the more value there will be in Microsoft creating (and encouraging others to create) web sites that only work in Edge. Just like what happened before Firefox saved us from the Internet Explorer 6 monoculture.
- wvenable 3y ago
  You can't think of Microsoft, or any company, as a monolith or personify them. The question is not how Microsoft benefits from this but rather which executive benefits from this. Given that I believe Windows team is now grouped together with the Bing (and Edge) team, I think the reasons for these sorts of changes are obvious.
  - lucb1e 3y ago
    If you think it's so obvious, why don't you provide the answer? I don't think GP would have posted the question if it were obvious to them. Whether you talk about Microsoft-the-firm or Microsoft-the-shareholders when asking about "what's in it for them": that's the same thing because it's a for-profit business, so that's an irrelevant thing to post as well.
bigmattystyles 3y ago
Ironically, Outlook has been opening mailto links in the Windows mail app for me, which I’ve never once used. So if they want override defaults somewhere, this is the only one I would allow.
mgbmtl 3y ago
I get so many support requests of "I clicked on a link and then I was logged-out". They weren't logged-out, they just didn't notice that the link was opened in the wrong browser. Doesn't help that most browsers kind of all look the same.
- dizhn 3y ago
  Thank God for remote desktop access software. My dad's story of the issue is always 100 percent useless. :)
  - aqfamnzc 3y ago
    Honestly, for a non-techie I think the "I was logged out" is totally reasonable. I'd bet that a majority of Internet users aren't going to recognize that the UI has changed, especially when they're focused on getting some other task done.
marginalia_nu 3y ago
Obligatory reminder Microsoft has been pulling bullshit like this (and worse) for over 30 years, at least as far back as the AARD code. https://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/windows/archive/aard/index.htm https://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/windows/archive/aard/ind...
- lucb1e 3y ago
  > Some programs and drivers in some pre-release builds of Windows 3.1 include code that tests for execution on MS-DOS and displays a disingenuous error message if Windows is run on some other type of DOS. The message tells of a “Non-fatal error” and advises the user to “contact Windows 3.1 beta support”. Some programs in the released build include the code and the error message, and even execute the code, performing the same tests, but without acting on the result to display the error message. > The code in question has become known widely as the AARD code, named after initials that are found within. From your link, for those not in the know
chillbill 3y ago
> Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that.
- devnullbrain 3y ago
  Thus making it 3 places you have to tell Windows what your default browser is
dbg31415 3y ago
Dear Microsoft, Nobody wants Edge. Not now. Not ever. Here's a graphic showing for the many uses for Edge. https://i.imgur.com/bq0LK8X.png https://i.imgur.com/bq0LK8X.png
charcircuit 3y ago
If you just set Edge as your default browser none of these bugs would affect you.
- timbit42 3y ago
  Yeah, but then I'd want to kill myself.
TrainedMonkey 3y ago
From "why we are doing this change" section: > To provide a unique experience — at Microsoft, we strive to create the best customer experience across our products. ... they straight up admit using windows dominance to push other products.
gwbas1c 3y ago
If anyone from Outlook (or Microsoft) is reading this: It would be extremely useful to include a screenshot in the linked article.
stronglikedan 3y ago
Weird, I just updated, and nothing changed for me. My links open in the same browser they always have (not Edge). I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
pessimizer 3y ago
Shows that antitrust law isn't real. The government wasted millions on chasing Microsoft over IE, and Microsoft isn't even scared to use the OS to force users to use Edge. They've been as far down the path as US regulation goes, and came out of it fearless.
- pigbearpig 3y ago
  My first thought was “Isn’t this so clearly the same behavior that got them an anti-trust violation 25 years ago”
vxNsr 3y ago
While obnoxious, they’re not doing anything truly nefarious under the hood: they’re just prepending every link with “edge://“ to open edge. This functionality was available to basically every single app since apps have become a thing, it might be interesting if other apps decided to force open chrome in response…
- timbit42 3y ago
  What would happen if you edited the binary from "edge://" to "http:// http://"?
dcow 3y ago
Devil’s advocate: Microsoft, an ethically unclean company, is justified in using this tactic to compete with Google, because (a) Google did it to acquire Chrome users in the first place, and (b) breaking the browser hegemony at a user mindshare level (not rendering engine level) is worth some UX pain. Note on (a): some will argue a difference between Google advertising Chrome on Google’s property (something they could do when bootstrapping Chrome) and advertising Chrome on other people’s property (something they could not do). But here, Windows and Edge are Microsoft’s property, like it or not.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  When did Google open browser links by default in Chrome instead of the system default? This isn't about advertising, it's about not following system defaults.
  - tredre3 3y ago
    > When did Google open browser links by default in Chrome instead of the system default? On my iphone the GMail app seems to frequently "forget" that Safari exists and I'm prompted to install Chrome when I tap a link. https://i.redd.it/tg2yj98o5ao51.jpg https://i.redd.it/tg2yj98o5ao51.jpg (Obtenir means Get/Install).
    - crazygringo 3y ago
      Yikes. But also how unusual. I just checked in Gmail on my iPhone and not only does it have a third option of Safari, it has a fourth option of "Default browser app". It seems (?) to be a bug but it makes me wonder how widespread the bug is, how often it's triggered. But that is very not cool. Thanks for the screenshot.
- savingsPossible 3y ago
  This is interesting, but also a pattern Side A is fighting side B, and therefore has to take these measures that harm bystander C. Nope, their fight, their problem, don't mess with my computer. I can happily say MS is wrong and Google is wrong
kramerger 3y ago
Wait until HN hears about how Microsoft is using Purview and DPL to force enterprise costumers switch to Edge...
LispSporks22 3y ago
I have a Windows box just for playing a few games, but even for that Windows is freaking rubbish. It keeps asking me to sign in with some BS Windows Live account! How painful is the Steam on Linux/Proton experience on average?
- entropie 3y ago
  > How painful is the Steam on Linux/Proton experience on average? Its way better than 2,3 years ago and at this time is was already useable. Give it a try.
entropie 3y ago
https://github.com/rcmaehl/MSEdgeRedirect https://github.com/rcmaehl/MSEdgeRedirect That should fix it, right? I use it for quite a long time now and it works with the search bar in the startmenu.
nanidin 3y ago
To me this isn't a huge loss as I have set firefox as my default browser, but I really use Chrome. The net result is that all of the tracking links I click in email get opened in a browser that I hardly use and that has hardly any context about me - no cookies, etc. Then I can copy the actual destination url into my real browser.
isaacremuant 3y ago
Google has been trying to do this for years in Android. They're absolutely anti consumer trying to get you to use their app or their thing.
oneplane 3y ago
> "No more disruptive switching" How about you don't decide that for everyone, Microsoft? <rant> This is the same BS that pushes 'conditional acces' based on what browser you happen to be using, or their idea of SSO where your console login also dictates all other logins... and it happens that you must use Edge. Turns out people don't give a shit if they have to pick an account more than once. That used to be a big point of friction on LanMan networks and when there was no Kerberos, but the same principles simply do not transfer to the web. Just like Teams and all their other packaged nonsense (Intune): they are creating a fake ecosystem where usage isn't based on requirements or best tool for the job, but on 'what else happens to come with the package', making the UX worse for everyone. Entry-level admins and middlemen don't actually need (or want) to know how any of it works, delegate responsibility and defects to the vendor (Microsoft) and then essentially stall all local wants and needs because they cannot actually fulfil anything themselves.
hnbad 3y ago
The title is a bit editorialized. Microsoft is doing the equivalent of embedding a "Web View" in Outlook. Instead of having some stale custom build of MSIE, they're using Edge because it's already installed and they're in control of the API and its compatibility. They're also offering a setting to disable this behavior. The links don't "open in Edge". That would suggest they launch the Edge app (instead of the default browser) and open the link in that. Instead the links open in a pane in Outlook that embeds Edge (presumably with the same settings and session context as the actual app). This also only affects the desktop Outlook app, not the far more modern and less clunky web version. I genuinely wonder how many HN users commenting on this story actually use desktop Outlook app or know someone who does and doesn't also use Edge (or their IT department's mandated out-of-date copy of Firefox ESR). Now, bear in mind I'm saying this from a position that is in favor of splitting up Microsoft (and Google and maybe Apple). The feature is certainly useful if viewed in isolation, but it is in effect anti-competitive behavior because even if they wanted, they couldn't provide generic integration of your browser of choice the same way and the new behavior is opt-out rather than opt-in. It's bad, but let's not pretend it's worse and more deceitful than it truly is, just because you already don't like Microsoft (and presumably don't use their products). This is probably a genuine usability improvement. It's also anti-competitive. Both of these things can be true at the same time.
nkotov 3y ago
I'd be happy to give Edge a chance but honestly Windows has so many anti-user patterns that it's intentionally forcing me to not use Edge because of how mad it's making me.
- waselighis 3y ago
  Exactly my attitude. Not just for Edge, I use Microsoft products and services as little as possible. Even if they might be technically superior, I will go with the solution that isn't being shoved down my throat.
imwillofficial 3y ago
this is why nobody likes you Microsoft.
shmerl 3y ago
> Microsoft is always striving to improve and streamline our product experiences Lol. Euphemism for "we want to take away all choice from the user".
lowbloodsugar 3y ago
Not on my Mac it doesn't =)
haolez 3y ago
I'm currently using Linux due to this kind of hostile behavior from Microsoft on Windows. However, we are power users and the big masses won't care about an ever increasing misalignment between the users' needs and Microsoft's. We cannot vote with our wallets, e.g. by using Linux instead. It won't matter. What we could maybe do is contribute to projects like ReactOS[0] and make it easier for the layperson to migrate to it if modern Windows finally annoys them. Just food for thought. [0] https://reactos.org/ https://reactos.org/
- lucb1e 3y ago
  I keep thinking that when my grandma's laptop gets too slow from all the Windows updates, I'll install some linux on it and teach her that so she doesn't have to keep learning how the new Windows works every time (because, indeed, the masses aren't switching). Won't have a problem with malware either. Cinnamon is 100% stable for me and very similar to Windows, that's going to be as much effort to learn as Windows 11 would be. Now, if only I could convince my dad, he might allow me trying to put it on my mom's computer as well... he insists on buying Microsoft Office for everyone under his roof so that I don't have an excuse to install LibreOffice Sometimes it seems like old-ish white men is why we can't have nice things (I'm gonna be one of those :/)
andrewcamel 3y ago
This is reminiscent of the USA vs Microsoft case in 2001... I wonder how much the antitrust team at Microsoft gets a say in product decisions like this. Just feels like they're toeing a line... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... Also definitely not in the best interest of users, which isn't the Satya Nadella way of operating, at least not as demonstrated in the developer tools side of the business.
- awiejrliajw 3y ago
  [flagged]
- peppermint_gum 3y ago
  > Also definitely not in the best interest of users, which isn't the Satya Nadella way of operating, at least not as demonstrated in the developer tools side of the business. Oh yes, good tsar, bad boyars. Whenever Microsoft does something good, like open-sourcing some dev tool, it's because of Nadella. But he isn't responsible for the state of Windows. If only someone told him about the forced telemetry, forced updates, forced Microsoft account login, pushing Edge down users' throats, and so on... I'm sure he would fix all those problems, but sadly, he doesn't know. And it's just a coincidence that all this stuff intensified when he became the CEO. I even saw a comment on HN saying that it's "Ballmer loyalists" who are truly at fault for the current state of Windows.
sisve 3y ago
I would expect the EU to have something to say to this. For people more into the legal side, why do MS think that EU will not think about this as abusing its monopoly?
executesorder66 3y ago
I'm loving the new Microsoft.
- timbit42 3y ago
  What's new about them? They have always been crap.
  - executesorder66 3y ago
    I thought the sarcasm would be more obvious. Why would anyone love this change? I was making fun of all the idiots that always comment "loving the new microsoft" when in fact, as you say, nothing is new, and they are as shit as ever.
    - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
      To denote sarcasm without the /s tag simply aLtErNaTe like so!
ezconnect 3y ago
My biggest complain on Outlook is loading external image. The settings to turn it off is so hard to find. I don't understand why is was so simple before now it's hidden and its also hard to find in the help files.
throw7 3y ago
Extend.
jksmith 3y ago
Outlook doesn't display that behavior in Linux. I checked.
_Algernon_ 3y ago
Each passing day I get happier with my switch to Linux as my daily driver after Win 7 EOL.
benlivengood 3y ago
The solution is to only use the web version of outlook. The nice thing about the web versions of office is that they're powerless on the local machine.
- AJ007 3y ago
  The solution is don't use outlook. Unbelievable how terrible the UI is for an email app.
  - savingsPossible 3y ago
    Some of us have to use it for work :( (and forwarding was disabled 'for security reasons' -- that may very well be a company decision, not a MS one)
- mfwit 3y ago
  It, too, has its issues. Especially the 'New Outlook', which is esentially the web version in an app wrapper. Like always wanting to open the web versions of Office products when you go to open attachments instead of the actual app installed on your machine.
activiation 3y ago
Can we roll back to the internet of 20 years ago? (Except with GPT4)
dcomp 3y ago
I'm getting office365 nagging me to change the pdf viewer on android after each download in chrome about 15 minutes after the download. Can't find the setting to stop it.
umvi 3y ago
I would use edge if I could have shared bookmarks, passwords, etc with chrome (not simply import). But since I can't there's no point to using a Windows only browser when I also use Linux
- Barrin92 3y ago
  Edge has been available on linux for a while https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge/download?form=MA13FJ&ch https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge/download?form=MA13FJ&ch
regularjack 3y ago
Edit: I was wrong, it opens in Edge. I dislike Microsoft as much as the next person, but AFAICT this is about opening the link inside Outlook, in a sidepane: > ... browser links from the Outlook app will open in Microsoft Edge by default, right alongside the email they’re from in the Microsoft Edge sidebar pane. Also the title has been editorialized here, the original title describes what is actually happening: > Outlook emails open next to web links in Microsoft Edge You can also turn it off: > Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that.
- clnq 3y ago
  No, it opens in full Edge and then it shows your email in the new Edge toolbar/sidebar.
pc2g4d 3y ago
Recently went all-Linux on my new workstation, and news like this makes clear that it was the right move to give up on Windows completely. I dual-booted for... 20 years? Just not worth it anymore. The disk storage reclaimed, the file system partitioning undone, the user-hostile patterns avoided. Couldn't be happier.
atlgator 3y ago
The Outlook mobile web app has been down all day. Would be nice if Microsoft fixed it.
rchivalry 3y ago
Have not seen this reflected yet. Links I click on in outlook still open in my default browser.
coding123 3y ago
I don't really want links - I want a machine learning algorithm to summarize and categorize, provide action, and ultimately reply for me so that I can converse with my relative's AIs regularly.
briffid 3y ago
This can be good if I have multiple mailboxes/profiles and it opens private mails in my private browser profile, and work mails in my work profile.
1970-01-01 3y ago
You have the option to turn off this feature in Outlook settings.
- henry2023 3y ago
  We can't call this a "feature"
23B1 3y ago
The sooner we realize that 'product managers' and 'UX designers' are now as bad as used car salesmen and NFT hucksters, the better. I'm sorry, I LOVE building products and I LOVE design... but these fields have become grift central. No disrespect to folks in these fields, but remember how you came into this field talking about usability, cooperation, beautiful typography, color theory? Bring those back.
- zgluck 3y ago
  Microsoft has always been horrible at building web-based products. Recently they are also horrible at building Windows-based products. And at building Windows. But VSCode is okay, for now!
- Zambyte 3y ago
  > No disrespect to folks in these fields Why not? You can absolutely call people out for using Nuremberg defense. Just because someone ordered you to intentionally mistreat people doesn't mean that you did not intentionally mistreat people.
  - 23B1 3y ago
    Honey>Vinegar
    - Zambyte 3y ago
      The most productive approach IMO is a little of both. Build designs that are intended to help people do what they want (instead of what you might want), and be loud about it. Neither being nice nor mean will persuade people working at Microsoft to be different. Being better and letting them know might though.
      - 23B1 3y ago
        Oh I don't have a problem calling out Microsoft at all. But I'm not gonna internet-shame some poor UX designer who is trying to pay her bills in this clown world – just want to encourage her to push back when she can.
AtNightWeCode 3y ago
Since probably a year back I can't get links in emails to open correctly from Outlook with any browser without copying the link manually. So for me it does not matter. I think apps should work in the general way an OS is designed. This change may lead to the same mobile app horrors where every app is also a browser that breaks common user flows.
dzogchen 3y ago
Richard Stallman playing the world's tiniest violin.
pcurve 3y ago
"Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that." Wow.
LorenDB 3y ago
OK, the page gives us a guide to submitting feedback about the feature. Everybody with Edge installed, please fire it up just this once and submit a plea to revert this! We can make Microsoft notice!
szundi 3y ago
So frustrating
jdlyga 3y ago
I wouldn't mind Edge if it were a Microsoft branded version of Chromium. It started out that way, and it was nice. But it's attracted every team at Microsoft and a total explosion of semi-useful features until it became totally bloated.
icelancer 3y ago
I just noticed this today. I was wondering if I screwed something up. Total bullshit.
tacker2000 3y ago
Apple also does this. Extremely infuriating.
dahwolf 3y ago
At least old Microsoft tried to hide or wash away their anti-consumer anti-competitive behavior. New Microsoft proudly announces it. And this reflects on other tech giants. They understand that they're in an era of near-zero regulation and can get away with seemingly anything.
Giorgi 3y ago
huh... it surprised me this morning, easy change trough setting though.
browningstreet 3y ago
I was looking at Distrowatch with my son.. lamenting at all the different distros, the distros I've never heard of, and the frequency of changes in the top 10 with distros I'm not familiar with. Free software devs are obviously free to do as they wish, but Apple vs Microsoft vs Google vs 100+ Linux distros wasn't going to lead to the outcome some of us were hoping for. We're looking at building a monster Davinci Resolve workstation and we might use Linux. He certainly wants to. But between our mobile devices (all iOS etc) and laptops -- we'd have a very mixed and heterogenous environment. I'm tired of maintaining all the different incompatibilities. I'm inclined to go all Apple, just to keep things clean. But the Distrowatch situation showed me how much Linux missed its "year of the desktop" window, so many years ago, and how having optimal hardware experiences across form-factors doesn't include Linux as a default, or obvious, or user-friendly option.. the way it does for servers and cloud ops.
- 0xedd 3y ago
  The issue is that [non-tech] people don't go around changing OSes. So long as PCs come with a default of user-hostile-OS-1 or user-hostile-OS-2, the question of "Linux year of the desktop, when?" is invalid. That said, be responsible where you put your money. My wife no longer uses iOS. I no longer use iOS or Android. Raspberry is a media server for TV.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
nipperkinfeet 3y ago
Microsoft's black patterns are starting to irritate me. This most recent incidence had an effect on several of our 365 users. Even with GPO, this still overrides the browser's default settings. Microsoft buried the option to set the browser to its default in the settings of Outlook. For every user, we must change it manually. We'll be searching for alternatives to Microsoft Office in the future.
- zvmaz 3y ago
  > Microsoft Office in the future There are not many alternatives, are there?
spandrew 3y ago
It's AMAZING to me Microsoft is framing this as a UX improvement, when it's going against explicit user choice... which is one of the tenants of good UX? The Windows Start menu is already so broken though.
0xedd 3y ago
It's part of a long term plan. A couple of years ago I noticed the same decision in Control Panel help links. They do not allow choosing a different Open With other than Microsoft programs. Even though I had some other browser installed, the only browser in the list of Open With was Edge.
drdaeman 3y ago
https://github.com/rcmaehl/MSEdgeRedirect https://github.com/rcmaehl/MSEdgeRedirect still works
zwayhowder 3y ago
I noticed this last week during a brief foray into Windows on the desktop and honestly, I don't hate it. Before you down-vote let me tell you why. I use Outlook for work only, and I segregate my browsing so that work browsing is done in Edge and personal is not. I could do (and have done) Chrome or Firefox profiles, but moving completely to Edge hasn't been terrible. (Hello vertical tab bar on my widescreen laptop). I agree the pattern is bad if someone is using Outlook for their personal email, but I suspect the Venn diagram of people who use Outlook for personal email and people who install a different browser is probably small. As always this should be an option! On my Linux desktop and laptops I have my default browser set to firefox --profilemanager %u so that every link I click in Slack, Teams, Thunderbird etc I can select the correct profile to open it in.
riffic 3y ago
hasn't anyone actually learned anything or at least paid attention to the microsoft ecosystem after all these years?
user7878 3y ago
There's option to change that. Options -> Advanced -> Link Handling
gbraad 3y ago
I also see this happening on `mspaint`. For example, when you 'accidentally' click the help question mark instead of the exit cross, it will open Microsoft Edge with a search on Bing for "help with paint in windows".
mcavdar 3y ago
Setting "Options>Advanced>Open hyperlinks from Outlook in" to "Default Browser" should fix the issue for now.
ymolodtsov 3y ago
As Gavin Belson once said, there's no new Microsoft. There's just Microsoft.
gmerc 3y ago
Don’t get me started on the fucking gamification of the start menu with microsoft reward coins (+100 to try bing on edge) to drive microsoft internal team KPIs This is as bad as Facebooks legendary QP abuse in metrics season that everyone used to win their PSC because we are talking about 300$ product here, Win11 PRO that is as crammed with adware - tiktok, instagram, office, onedrive, blah blah blah as in the worst days of steve balmer now.
- worksonmine 3y ago
  Just a matter of time until you get to unlock RAM and storage from your own hardware by completing chores, "Make Edge your default browser to unlock +1GB of RAM". I haven't touched Windows in a decade and don't miss a single thing. Every computer literate user should make the switch.
JohnFen 3y ago
Fortunately, I only have to deal with Microsoft products at work. Unfortunately, one of those products is Outlook. Years ago, I developed the muscle memory of copying links from outlook and pasting them into a browser rather than clicking on them directly. This was to avoid various "helpful" things Microsoft insists of doing. Now, that habit will pay off in spades.
ivanjermakov 3y ago
What's the point of using desktop app for Outlook? Web version works well and it's much more limited to do such "tricks".
nokya 3y ago
I noticed. But I don't care. Currently, I use Microsoft products on a daily basis for my work, I only use Outlook for access the company email. Honestly, I'd never plug a personal email account in it, nor ever browse personal content on a Microsoft's browser. Firefox+Thunderbird all the way.
x3874 3y ago
[dupe]

893 points by mfwit 3y ago

Also, it opens the email itself in a sidebar. Edge has been super hostile in the past few months, and it seems to coincide with the Bing Chat push. So much garbage like Workspaces and Discover.

causi 3y ago

What if you've removed Edge from your system?

jabroni_salad 3y ago
you might find that it mysteriously reappears
- jeltz 3y ago
  Source? You may very well be correct but I would like to see a source for such a claim.
  - netsharc 3y ago
    Windows has had a mechanism called Windows Resource Protection[1] for a long while now, if you delete notepad.exe (I guess nowadays that file isn't even deletable), after a few seconds it will reappear again. If you delete edge.exe (or whatever it's called) or replace it with a copy of, let's say firefox.exe, the WRP will see the file has been removed/modified and restore it, because somewhere inside C:\Windows there's a backup copy of the files.. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Resource_Protection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Resource_Protection, previously Windows File Protection, introduced in Windows 2000.
- timbit42 3y ago
  What if I tell my A/V it is malware to keep it from being reinstalled?
monsieurgaufre 3y ago
I was able with winget in the past. Dont know if it is still possible.
stranded22 3y ago
I didn’t think it could be easily removed (yes - I appreciate the audience here) - and if removed, it is so ingrained into the OS I expect the problems it’ll cause would be incredibly frustrating…
- pierat 3y ago
  Microsoft's cramware is always "inexorably integrated at the deepest of levels", all the way back to Windows95 when they shoveled IE in OSR2 And it's always a 100% complete lie, and abusing their monopoly position.
  - recursive 3y ago
    It's not a lie that mshtml.dll was the IE (trident) renderer. And it's not a lie that it was a dependency for a number of OS features.
hospitalJail 3y ago
Haha nice try. Ready for a 15 minute long process that will restore itself in the future, not to mention trusting some random website for a guide.

gbraad 3y ago

I believe I have seen the same behaviour on Android for their apps.

jeltz 3y ago
Virtually all apps do this and some like Google Chat and Facebook Messenger do not even allow you to change browser.
privacyking 3y ago
That's different and an unfair comparison. Android will open the system browser (which will be chromium based in most instances). It can't just open the default browser because that might break certain functions of android apps if the non system default browser is broken
- Regnore 3y ago
  Doesn't your comment apply equally to all platforms including Windows?
- probably_wrong 3y ago
  That argument is surprisingly similar to the one that Microsoft argued back in their antitrust case [1]: that "the merging of Windows and IE was the result of innovation and competition" and "that the two were now the same product and inextricably linked". For those who were too young at the time, Microsoft lost the first instance of that trial and eventually reached a settlement. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_C....
- gbraad 3y ago
  just checked, and Bing opens their own webview. I believe when Edge is installed they opt to use this first before. you get the option to use the default, but this is not happening without interaction. note: not going to test this further... but regardless, why not use your default!
microflash 3y ago

frob 3y ago

Windows is just full of hostile, anti-user patterns these days. I've considered building a windows box just to have a gaming rig multiple times over the last few years, but every time an article like this or their crusade against Chrome reminds me that Bill Gates is still the same anti-trust monster he was in the 90s.

creshal 3y ago
Gaming on Linux is a joy these days. Less driver bugs than in Win10/11 in my experience.
postalrat 3y ago
Well at least Microsoft allows you to install other browsers. Apple only allows skins for their mobile browser.
- jeltz 3y ago
  That is on iOS, on MacOS they allow other browsers and respect the systemwide defaults. Personally I use Linux unless forced to use something else by my employer.
  - Analemma_ 3y ago
    > That is on iOS, on MacOS they allow other browsers and respect the systemwide defaults. Why is that in any way exonerating? Most people do most of their actual computing on their phones now, it is not an irrelevant toy platform. We should be more, not less, hard on Apple than Microsoft for pulling this shit on their mobile platform.
    - hospitalJail 3y ago
      Apple sells the ability to be part of an 'in-group'. People don't buy their phones for their computing abilities, they do it to have access to other Apple users. Its a psychology trick that took decades of marketing to pull off, but they are deeply entrenched as someone's identity. These users have a religious devotion and will defend them, because an attack on Apple is an attack on them and their group. If you don't care about a corporate in-group, you are most likely wanting a quality computing platform. Which is why people are so hard on Google an Microsoft when they restrict computing.

trollied 3y ago

The title is a little clickbaity - the behaviour can be changed: “ Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that. ” Having said that, Microsoft seem to be entering another phase of baiting antitrust regulators.

jeltz 3y ago
That is very annoying. On s related note I personally hate how I need to enter the settings of every app on my phone to tell them not to use the embedded browser? Why would I ever want to use something which is not my default browser? The only scenario I csn see is offering to open in private browsing but still in my browser or something like tor. Just some web view makes no sense. And this is similar. There is no non-malicious use case for this setting that I can see.
- creshal 3y ago
  On Android at least, browsers can also provide the "embedded" overlay, and Fennec, Vivaldi, etc. all do, so it's not really necessary to mess with app settings, changing the system default browser is enough. On iOS, it's mandatory, because Apple says so.
mfwit 3y ago
The only reason I realized this was a thing is because a coworker blew past the initial popup about the behavior and couldnt figure out what the hell was going on. Users don't pay attention to this stuff. And then when you have to go back and switch it to the correct behavior of using the default browser, they've buried the option in Outlook (Options > Advanced > Link Handling).
AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
It can, although having just received it this morning, it definitely changes first and asks you to roll it back afterwards, rather than being opt-in. It's still obnoxious.
tylerag 3y ago

userbinator 3y ago

Microsoft is always striving to improve and streamline our product experiences—offering a new way to use the classic Microsoft Outlook app on Windows and the Microsoft Edge web browser. to help you stay engaged in conversations as you browse the web. I wonder if the people who write this sort of BS-filled prose really believe in what they're writing. To be completely honest, the style almost sounds like LLM output.

reliablereason 3y ago
It is likely written by some copywriter. That person believes in nothing, they are simply performing a task that has been assigned to them.
- detritus 3y ago
  > That person believes in nothing Ouch!
- klardotsh 3y ago
  “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”...
blq10 3y ago
They usually believe some of it, because they're spin doctors not idiots. Edge is pretty OK, good even compared to Firefox's speed issues and Chrome being Chrome.
shever73 3y ago
I asked ChatGPT to write the announcement, and it was very close to this kind of language: https://chat.openai.com/share/67c7c09f-e01d-494b-aac3-0104b95d0da6 https://chat.openai.com/share/67c7c09f-e01d-494b-aac3-0104b9...
chillbill 3y ago
It’s the other way around: LLM output sounds like (and is) BS people wrote earlier.

moss2 3y ago

Glad I uninstalled Windows and use Ubuntu on all my computers

david422 3y ago
I did this many years ago, ran into a bunch of issues and switched back. Tried again maybe 4 (?) years ago and have stuck with it - everything is pretty smooth for my purposes now. I do run into some random issues sometimes - like display drivers randomly resetting. That seems to be the biggest one.
- TheDesolate0 3y ago
  [dead]
- BirAdam 3y ago
  I actually switch to Tiny11 after a little over 2 decades of only Linux… mostly due to performance issues on newer hardware. Windows does substantially better on graphics and Wi-Fi on my desktop, so there it goes.
- Hizonner 3y ago
  Windows has random issues, too. Everything has random issues. When it happens on Windows, people think it's Just The Way Computers Are, but when it happens on anything but Windows, it's Not Ready For Prime Time.
  - II2II 3y ago
    You're absolutely correct on your assessment and it makes them sound absolutely ridiculous when you are on the other side of the fence. I have used Linux for decades and barely notice its issues. Every time I use Windows, all I notice are the issues. It has nothing to do with being biased towards one operating system or another. Rather, it is the outcome of being accustomed to something and unfamiliar with the other. People should really try putting themselves into the place of those they are speaking to before making broad statements, and temper those statements with the realization that different people have different experiences and expectations.

hardware2win 3y ago

Is this because not all browsers support stuff equally? A few days ago on fresh windows install I couldnt watch netflix on ff/edge, but on chrome it worked. Player error. I guess it was related to some missing drivers?

vladvasiliu 3y ago
This is funny since, according to Netflix, it has better support for edge than for chrome. https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742
- Goronmon 3y ago
  My understanding for that is because Edge implements DRM and allows up to 4k resolutions, which you can't get on other browsers in Windows.
themoonisachees 3y ago
Tip: spoof your user agent to a chrome one and Netflix magically fixes itself :)
bradly 3y ago
It is opening the links in a sidebar pane so you can view your email and the link contents at the same time. You now aren't being taken out of Outlook to view the page.

bbotond 3y ago

I switched to Linux 4 years ago because of these dark patterns. No regrets.

procarch2019 3y ago
I think anyone using outlook is probably using it out of necessity for work. Not everyone can just jump to Linux when they work in a company.
- 1ain0n_dev 3y ago
  Do you not have different machines for work and personal use?
  - procarch2019 3y ago
    I don’t do more work outside of my professional work. I get away with just my phone and an iPad for everything else.
- extr0pian 3y ago
  I'm using Thunderbird on Linux with an Outlook work account. Granted, I have to pay for 'Owl for Exchange' for it work, but I absolutely hate the Outlook program, I'm willing to fork out the $10/yr of my own money just to avoid it.
  - jfhufl 3y ago
    If you still have IMAP access, thunderbird supports OAuth2 for connecting to O365 IMAP. tbsync for calendar access. Seems to work pretty well currently.
    - testrun 3y ago
      That is my setup. Works 100%.
    - procarch2019 3y ago

AraceliHarker 3y ago

Windows 11 can multitask and is used on a widescreen display and has the ability to align windows, so why not just put Outlook next to Edge instead of using Edge's sidebar to display email?

mikepurvis 3y ago

Google does something like this with the GMail app on iPhone— you click links and instead of just opening Safari, it pops up a "which browser to use" selector modal, which is really just an advertisement for you to install Chrome.

yaky 3y ago
Google Chat on Windows as well. Even if it is “installed as an app”, it does not act like one, and always opens links in Chrome. I understand that the “app” in this case is a Chrome wrapper, but it at least should respect system defaults.
- shawnz 3y ago
  PWAs in Edge have the same issue -- links clicked inside the PWA always open in Edge. This is especially annoying because certain apps in the Windows store (like Snapchat) are really just Edge PWAs. FirefoxPWA gets it right and opens in the default browser (but it is a bit janky for other reasons).
yakubin 3y ago
Same with Google Maps. It’s really annoying.
- iso1631 3y ago
  One of the reasons I use apple maps, despite apple making it worse over the years
- princevegeta89 3y ago
  I disabled Chrome on my Samsung device and links from Google Maps always open in my Brave browser which is the default I've set
vladvasiliu 3y ago
Ditto for Google Maps. The choices, in order, are: - Chrome - Google (?) - Safari - Default browser app I don't know what "google" is, but I don't even have chrome installed. If I click it, it sends me to the app store.

devinprater 3y ago

Ugh can't wait until Linux is accessible for blind people like me. Y'all seen the new Windows File Explorer context menu? Freaking sucks. I'm sure I've posted this here before but dang, it just keeps getting worse.

eska 3y ago
Sorry for being ignorant, but I always imagined that the terminal workflow should work much better for blind people than Windows‘ reliance on graphical widgets. Or is the issue elsewhere?
jasonjmcghee 3y ago
It's incredible how bad it is. Tiny icons of the most important actions, like copy, paste, rename, along the top that are unique designs with no tooltips. If an action isn't available it's not disabled, but missing entirely. This is all not to mention the new strange delay and how it doesn't match the theme of file explorer at all. And if you want to access to options not in the very limited default ones, you have to click "show more options" that opens the classic menu in the old theme. It's just a mess.
firebaze 3y ago
Thanks to wayland, it's about to get even worse instead of better. Linux had surpassed windows in most aspects already (and I am enjoying this - no Windows on any machine, not even for gaming, thanks to Proton), then came Wayland and unfortunately it wasn't widely ignored. Please understand that I understand the reasons behind Wayland, that the Wayland Devs are also behind X, and that X is an awful mess. I know and I believe, but Wayland is still the worst solution for the problem X created, in my humble view. Please also accept that this is not a criticism of the awesomeness of Wayland/X devs. They are awesome. But they also were tired of X, and the result is, Wayland is undercomplex by at least a gut-factor of 10. And anything accessiibility-related is part of that.

dm_me_dogs 3y ago

Microsoft, why?? It's an easy fix sure (within the Microsoft 365 Apps admin center) but why is it so hard for you to respect people's default browser choice?

elboru 3y ago
Even respecting the settings. Every time Windows gets an update it asks me if I want to change my Edge settings, the first couple of times I didn’t pay attention and it changed my default search engine and started showing the useless news thumbnails that I explicitly took the time to hide. I’ll need to reconsider Chrome or Firefox, which is a shame since I really liked some Edge’s features.
- InCityDreams 3y ago
  Try brave browser? The bitcoiny stuff can be hidden (and blocked). As for the rest, I'm remarkably impressed. I even go through the brave://flags for extra oomph. I rn it from a ramdrive, too.
executesorder66 3y ago
> why is it so hard for you to respect people's default browser choice Why should microsoft respect anyone if they don't have the self respect to use literally any other OS? They keep getting away with this shit, because people keep letting them. If you choose to use Windows then I have no pity for you.

cm277 3y ago

This does make a bit of sense; Edge on Windows logs you into 365 and keeps the authentication around. So company links/attachments on Outlook can open easier on Edge using the 365 credentials. Now, if only they were actually smarter about which 365 profile's mail you are reading in Outlook (for those of us that are working across multiple orgs) and open the link under that profile on Edge, that would be awesome. Edge makes a lot more sense as a smarter 365 client than it does as a browser, but it's not a bad browser either.

Sakos 3y ago
Yeah, no. This is insanity. Firefox can keep your authentication too. Just login on FF or show a prompt. WHAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF TOKENS. It already works perfectly fine with non-Edge browsers. This is ridiculous anti-competitive garbage and I can't believe people are defending it.

SpaceL10n 3y ago

I changed it back to use default browser. It took all of 60 seconds to google the answer. They totally should take a calculated risk like this in order to gain more market share. Exercising control over software defaults rarely causes users to abandon a product entirely. The pain of changing the default back is much less than the pain of finding a new tool. Microsoft will not lose Outlook users by doing this. They will gain Edge users though. Yes, they will enrage the craftspeople who aren't a part of THE GRID, but that still won't affect the bottom line enough to matter.

jjoonathan 3y ago
Yes, this dirty tactic will almost certainly work unless we conk them with the regulatory hammer, which we absolutely should. Harder than last time, so that they remember.
dtx1 3y ago
> They totally should take a calculated risk like this in order to gain more market share. Exercising God I hope we get another anti competitive lawsuit over shit like this in my lifetime.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
loganc2342 3y ago
Will this be a “good” move for them, money-wise? Perhaps. SHOULD they do this unequivocally user-unfriendly move? Absolutely not. Businesses SHOULD never screw over their customers for a little extra profit, but of course this sentiment will never stop them.
mihaaly 3y ago
They should NOT try this manipulative approach as what remains in the heads is the attitude they employ towards their users: ignoring them! If this was the one and only one of their dirty attempts it may have been gone unnoticed but their attitude they allow themselves is approaching of a scumbag through the repeated user hosility and ruining usability, proactively wasting the time of the very people they live on. There may be many who does not care but growing number of people on the grid - who they ask advice from - will spread the dirtball reputation of Microsoft, reaching a lot of people, fortunately.

rhaway84773 3y ago

I hate this behavior. I’ve stopped using MS first party tools on Windows altogether because of this.

acomjean 3y ago

Its getting worse everywhere: some things I've noticed: Mobil Safari seems to be using the search bar to hijack my google search (Particularly for locations which open in apple maps) Although I'm mostly linux these days I went to install an alternative browser on a windows machine (using edge to download). I mentioned this in another post, but edge seems to watch for "chrome" or "firefox" downloads and politely reminds you that 'Edge is a great browser with added "trust of microsoft"' (A company who happen to be watching when you download a web browser). https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/2/22813733/microsoft-windows-edge-download-chrome-prompts https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/2/22813733/microsoft-window... Linux seems like an OS that is way more respectful.

kwanbix 3y ago
I really don't like to use Edge, and I don't like imposed changes, however if you read the article, it says that it can be turned off, or am I missing something? "Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that."
- post-it 3y ago
  And it'll inevitably turn itself back on after a mandatory upgrade, just like all the other user-hostile things you can turn off.
  - dizhn 3y ago
    Like android playstore notifications. You can turn them off sure. But you'll keep getting the notification that reminds you to turn them on. You only have to say yes once. But it dutifully asks you again and again if you say no to something. These things have become so yawn to me these days.
    - ljm 3y ago
      As has been the case for the past 10 years or so, UX consistently plays second-fiddle to analytics.

hospitalJail 3y ago

The final straw for me and Windows was when I took the time to remove some annoying feature, cortana or edge, can't remember. Then an update replaced my work. It wasnt some 'uninstall program', but a multi-step process that involved registry editing. I don't feel like I have control over Windows.

gabereiser 3y ago
You never had control over windows. Not since the ME/XP days. You don’t have control over MacOS either. The only OS you have any control over is Linux and even some of those you don’t.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  I suppose there was enough freedom from 95-XP, it didn't matter that much. I never had an issue perfectly customizing my experience. Today I can't get rid of ads/news/cortana/edge.
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    XP was the version that started pushing updates despite whatever you would configure and deny executing if you didn't jump through the correct hops. You still had some amount of control on 95. MS had the power to take your control away at any point, but they didn't at that time.
- lucb1e 3y ago
  I suppose they weren't as obnoxious/desperate about it in the past, though. I feel like past methods were more about lawsuits and software patents than about annoying every individual consumer that paid for your damn product
contravariant 3y ago
I think I mangled the ownership of the folder it tries to install edge in just to prevent it from reinstalling it every single time.
3y ago

LegitShady 3y ago

I’m one of the dinosaurs who still uses Skype to talk to some non-computer people who haven’t moved away from it. Skype similarly gets worse and worse each update. They removed the ability to have multiple windows, they made links open in some kind of in-Skype browser I can’t find a setting a to turn off, they added a weather widget which is dumb. Thankfully the weather widget exists, though, because their new in app browser doesn’t have any way to close the in app “window” it opens - no x, nowhere to click to close it. The only way I’ve found to close it is to click the weather widget which loads into the same space and that has an x to close it. I bet they’re getting tons of positive numbers about weather widget use from users just looking to close the shitty in app browser. I don’t know if it even counts as a dark pattern - I can’t tell if the Skype designers are this incompetent or actually hate the few users left still on that shitty platform. Maybe they’re purposely trying to get Microsoft to shut it down by making it worse every update? Every second I use skype I want to get away from it, I just have to convince a handful of people to move as well, or I guess let them know they won’t be able to reach me through there and give up talking to them. I noticed the outlook link handling thing on my personal machine and figured out how to turn it off but damn that was annoying. I’m not going to be annoyed into using edge - I won’t be tricked into it either. Every time this happens my willingness to go along with this gets smaller and smaller. I have a bunch of paid Microsoft licenses - windows, office365, etc. Once gaming off windows matures a little more I think its time to move away from this abusive shit.

stainablesteel 3y ago

so this is their website, showing you how they document the way they taunt their own customers? fucking lmao, linux since years ago don't care

FuriouslyAdrift 3y ago

Right in the KB: "Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that."

domador 3y ago
Still inexcusable. They're wasting power users' time by making them have to search for a way to change this unexpected and undesirable setting. I'm glad that the first time Edge hijacked my Outlook link I saw a popup message that allowed me to change the setting to use the default browser. But I could have easily missed it and it would have wasted my time.
tremon 3y ago
So ultimately though, Outlook ignores the Default Browser setting of the OS, unless you tell it not to? Does that mean that it's ok for every application to ignore the system-wide settings until you explicitly configure it otherwise? Then what it the point of having system-wide settings in the first place?

andsoitis 3y ago

Isn’t the bigger issue that Edge is really just Chromium with a different UI (AFAIK)?

RajT88 3y ago
Correct - Edge is Chromium with a bunch of different features surrounding it. Same core engine. Generally, they release a few days after a Chrome stable release comes out with the same code.

Simulacra 3y ago

It took us half a day to roll back our systems to get rid of the new Outlook. It's a web based email client through an Edge browser window and it's awful. I do not want to use an Edge browser window to access email, I don't want to even have to see the edge browser at all.

karlerss 3y ago

The web based outlook is an extremely well-polished and usable piece of software. You can use it in any browser you like.

meepmorp 3y ago
It's been consistently better than the desktop apps for years, too, despite the fact that they're Electron now.
yrro 3y ago
It runs like treacle, gobbles memory and pegs my CPU. It's truly, utterly awful.
- skc 3y ago
  For you.
globular-toast 3y ago
It's honestly sad to think there are people who have never used good software.

XorNot 3y ago

Isn't this all an anti-trust thing at this point? Of the type which Microsoft got done for in 2000s?

aezart 3y ago

I don't understand how Microsoft benefits from getting everyone to use their web browser? Is it all to spy on people's browsing habits?

quacked 3y ago
Ad revenue from increased user count, spying on browsing habits, scraping user-input data, and promotion-hunting by product managers who want to advertise how their new feature led to X million more clicks per day.
Larrikin 3y ago
I assume every website I look at on Chrome is sent to Google, I don't see Microsoft not doing the same. But the thing Google has and Microsoft wants is to be in full control of web standards.
yrro 3y ago
The more people use Edge the more value there will be in Microsoft creating (and encouraging others to create) web sites that only work in Edge. Just like what happened before Firefox saved us from the Internet Explorer 6 monoculture.
wvenable 3y ago
You can't think of Microsoft, or any company, as a monolith or personify them. The question is not how Microsoft benefits from this but rather which executive benefits from this. Given that I believe Windows team is now grouped together with the Bing (and Edge) team, I think the reasons for these sorts of changes are obvious.
- lucb1e 3y ago
  If you think it's so obvious, why don't you provide the answer? I don't think GP would have posted the question if it were obvious to them. Whether you talk about Microsoft-the-firm or Microsoft-the-shareholders when asking about "what's in it for them": that's the same thing because it's a for-profit business, so that's an irrelevant thing to post as well.

bigmattystyles 3y ago

Ironically, Outlook has been opening mailto links in the Windows mail app for me, which I’ve never once used. So if they want override defaults somewhere, this is the only one I would allow.

mgbmtl 3y ago

I get so many support requests of "I clicked on a link and then I was logged-out". They weren't logged-out, they just didn't notice that the link was opened in the wrong browser. Doesn't help that most browsers kind of all look the same.

dizhn 3y ago
Thank God for remote desktop access software. My dad's story of the issue is always 100 percent useless. :)
- aqfamnzc 3y ago
  Honestly, for a non-techie I think the "I was logged out" is totally reasonable. I'd bet that a majority of Internet users aren't going to recognize that the UI has changed, especially when they're focused on getting some other task done.

marginalia_nu 3y ago

Obligatory reminder Microsoft has been pulling bullshit like this (and worse) for over 30 years, at least as far back as the AARD code. https://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/windows/archive/aard/index.htm https://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/windows/archive/aard/ind...

lucb1e 3y ago
> Some programs and drivers in some pre-release builds of Windows 3.1 include code that tests for execution on MS-DOS and displays a disingenuous error message if Windows is run on some other type of DOS. The message tells of a “Non-fatal error” and advises the user to “contact Windows 3.1 beta support”. Some programs in the released build include the code and the error message, and even execute the code, performing the same tests, but without acting on the result to display the error message. > The code in question has become known widely as the AARD code, named after initials that are found within. From your link, for those not in the know

chillbill 3y ago

> Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that.

devnullbrain 3y ago
Thus making it 3 places you have to tell Windows what your default browser is

dbg31415 3y ago

Dear Microsoft, Nobody wants Edge. Not now. Not ever. Here's a graphic showing for the many uses for Edge. https://i.imgur.com/bq0LK8X.png https://i.imgur.com/bq0LK8X.png

charcircuit 3y ago

If you just set Edge as your default browser none of these bugs would affect you.

timbit42 3y ago
Yeah, but then I'd want to kill myself.

TrainedMonkey 3y ago

From "why we are doing this change" section: > To provide a unique experience — at Microsoft, we strive to create the best customer experience across our products. ... they straight up admit using windows dominance to push other products.

gwbas1c 3y ago

If anyone from Outlook (or Microsoft) is reading this: It would be extremely useful to include a screenshot in the linked article.

stronglikedan 3y ago

Weird, I just updated, and nothing changed for me. My links open in the same browser they always have (not Edge). I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

pessimizer 3y ago

Shows that antitrust law isn't real. The government wasted millions on chasing Microsoft over IE, and Microsoft isn't even scared to use the OS to force users to use Edge. They've been as far down the path as US regulation goes, and came out of it fearless.

pigbearpig 3y ago
My first thought was “Isn’t this so clearly the same behavior that got them an anti-trust violation 25 years ago”

vxNsr 3y ago

While obnoxious, they’re not doing anything truly nefarious under the hood: they’re just prepending every link with “edge://“ to open edge. This functionality was available to basically every single app since apps have become a thing, it might be interesting if other apps decided to force open chrome in response…

timbit42 3y ago
What would happen if you edited the binary from "edge://" to "http:// http://"?

dcow 3y ago

Devil’s advocate: Microsoft, an ethically unclean company, is justified in using this tactic to compete with Google, because (a) Google did it to acquire Chrome users in the first place, and (b) breaking the browser hegemony at a user mindshare level (not rendering engine level) is worth some UX pain. Note on (a): some will argue a difference between Google advertising Chrome on Google’s property (something they could do when bootstrapping Chrome) and advertising Chrome on other people’s property (something they could not do). But here, Windows and Edge are Microsoft’s property, like it or not.

crazygringo 3y ago
When did Google open browser links by default in Chrome instead of the system default? This isn't about advertising, it's about not following system defaults.
- tredre3 3y ago
  > When did Google open browser links by default in Chrome instead of the system default? On my iphone the GMail app seems to frequently "forget" that Safari exists and I'm prompted to install Chrome when I tap a link. https://i.redd.it/tg2yj98o5ao51.jpg https://i.redd.it/tg2yj98o5ao51.jpg (Obtenir means Get/Install).
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    Yikes. But also how unusual. I just checked in Gmail on my iPhone and not only does it have a third option of Safari, it has a fourth option of "Default browser app". It seems (?) to be a bug but it makes me wonder how widespread the bug is, how often it's triggered. But that is very not cool. Thanks for the screenshot.
savingsPossible 3y ago
This is interesting, but also a pattern Side A is fighting side B, and therefore has to take these measures that harm bystander C. Nope, their fight, their problem, don't mess with my computer. I can happily say MS is wrong and Google is wrong

kramerger 3y ago

Wait until HN hears about how Microsoft is using Purview and DPL to force enterprise costumers switch to Edge...

LispSporks22 3y ago

I have a Windows box just for playing a few games, but even for that Windows is freaking rubbish. It keeps asking me to sign in with some BS Windows Live account! How painful is the Steam on Linux/Proton experience on average?

entropie 3y ago
> How painful is the Steam on Linux/Proton experience on average? Its way better than 2,3 years ago and at this time is was already useable. Give it a try.

entropie 3y ago

https://github.com/rcmaehl/MSEdgeRedirect https://github.com/rcmaehl/MSEdgeRedirect That should fix it, right? I use it for quite a long time now and it works with the search bar in the startmenu.

nanidin 3y ago

To me this isn't a huge loss as I have set firefox as my default browser, but I really use Chrome. The net result is that all of the tracking links I click in email get opened in a browser that I hardly use and that has hardly any context about me - no cookies, etc. Then I can copy the actual destination url into my real browser.

isaacremuant 3y ago

Google has been trying to do this for years in Android. They're absolutely anti consumer trying to get you to use their app or their thing.

oneplane 3y ago

> "No more disruptive switching" How about you don't decide that for everyone, Microsoft? <rant> This is the same BS that pushes 'conditional acces' based on what browser you happen to be using, or their idea of SSO where your console login also dictates all other logins... and it happens that you must use Edge. Turns out people don't give a shit if they have to pick an account more than once. That used to be a big point of friction on LanMan networks and when there was no Kerberos, but the same principles simply do not transfer to the web. Just like Teams and all their other packaged nonsense (Intune): they are creating a fake ecosystem where usage isn't based on requirements or best tool for the job, but on 'what else happens to come with the package', making the UX worse for everyone. Entry-level admins and middlemen don't actually need (or want) to know how any of it works, delegate responsibility and defects to the vendor (Microsoft) and then essentially stall all local wants and needs because they cannot actually fulfil anything themselves.

hnbad 3y ago

The title is a bit editorialized. Microsoft is doing the equivalent of embedding a "Web View" in Outlook. Instead of having some stale custom build of MSIE, they're using Edge because it's already installed and they're in control of the API and its compatibility. They're also offering a setting to disable this behavior. The links don't "open in Edge". That would suggest they launch the Edge app (instead of the default browser) and open the link in that. Instead the links open in a pane in Outlook that embeds Edge (presumably with the same settings and session context as the actual app). This also only affects the desktop Outlook app, not the far more modern and less clunky web version. I genuinely wonder how many HN users commenting on this story actually use desktop Outlook app or know someone who does and doesn't also use Edge (or their IT department's mandated out-of-date copy of Firefox ESR). Now, bear in mind I'm saying this from a position that is in favor of splitting up Microsoft (and Google and maybe Apple). The feature is certainly useful if viewed in isolation, but it is in effect anti-competitive behavior because even if they wanted, they couldn't provide generic integration of your browser of choice the same way and the new behavior is opt-out rather than opt-in. It's bad, but let's not pretend it's worse and more deceitful than it truly is, just because you already don't like Microsoft (and presumably don't use their products). This is probably a genuine usability improvement. It's also anti-competitive. Both of these things can be true at the same time.

nkotov 3y ago

I'd be happy to give Edge a chance but honestly Windows has so many anti-user patterns that it's intentionally forcing me to not use Edge because of how mad it's making me.

waselighis 3y ago
Exactly my attitude. Not just for Edge, I use Microsoft products and services as little as possible. Even if they might be technically superior, I will go with the solution that isn't being shoved down my throat.

imwillofficial 3y ago

this is why nobody likes you Microsoft.

shmerl 3y ago

> Microsoft is always striving to improve and streamline our product experiences Lol. Euphemism for "we want to take away all choice from the user".

lowbloodsugar 3y ago

Not on my Mac it doesn't =)

haolez 3y ago

I'm currently using Linux due to this kind of hostile behavior from Microsoft on Windows. However, we are power users and the big masses won't care about an ever increasing misalignment between the users' needs and Microsoft's. We cannot vote with our wallets, e.g. by using Linux instead. It won't matter. What we could maybe do is contribute to projects like ReactOS[0] and make it easier for the layperson to migrate to it if modern Windows finally annoys them. Just food for thought. [0] https://reactos.org/ https://reactos.org/

lucb1e 3y ago
I keep thinking that when my grandma's laptop gets too slow from all the Windows updates, I'll install some linux on it and teach her that so she doesn't have to keep learning how the new Windows works every time (because, indeed, the masses aren't switching). Won't have a problem with malware either. Cinnamon is 100% stable for me and very similar to Windows, that's going to be as much effort to learn as Windows 11 would be. Now, if only I could convince my dad, he might allow me trying to put it on my mom's computer as well... he insists on buying Microsoft Office for everyone under his roof so that I don't have an excuse to install LibreOffice Sometimes it seems like old-ish white men is why we can't have nice things (I'm gonna be one of those :/)

andrewcamel 3y ago

This is reminiscent of the USA vs Microsoft case in 2001... I wonder how much the antitrust team at Microsoft gets a say in product decisions like this. Just feels like they're toeing a line... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... Also definitely not in the best interest of users, which isn't the Satya Nadella way of operating, at least not as demonstrated in the developer tools side of the business.

awiejrliajw 3y ago
[flagged]
peppermint_gum 3y ago
> Also definitely not in the best interest of users, which isn't the Satya Nadella way of operating, at least not as demonstrated in the developer tools side of the business. Oh yes, good tsar, bad boyars. Whenever Microsoft does something good, like open-sourcing some dev tool, it's because of Nadella. But he isn't responsible for the state of Windows. If only someone told him about the forced telemetry, forced updates, forced Microsoft account login, pushing Edge down users' throats, and so on... I'm sure he would fix all those problems, but sadly, he doesn't know. And it's just a coincidence that all this stuff intensified when he became the CEO. I even saw a comment on HN saying that it's "Ballmer loyalists" who are truly at fault for the current state of Windows.

sisve 3y ago

I would expect the EU to have something to say to this. For people more into the legal side, why do MS think that EU will not think about this as abusing its monopoly?

executesorder66 3y ago

I'm loving the new Microsoft.

timbit42 3y ago
What's new about them? They have always been crap.
- executesorder66 3y ago
  I thought the sarcasm would be more obvious. Why would anyone love this change? I was making fun of all the idiots that always comment "loving the new microsoft" when in fact, as you say, nothing is new, and they are as shit as ever.
  - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
    To denote sarcasm without the /s tag simply aLtErNaTe like so!

ezconnect 3y ago

My biggest complain on Outlook is loading external image. The settings to turn it off is so hard to find. I don't understand why is was so simple before now it's hidden and its also hard to find in the help files.

throw7 3y ago

Extend.

jksmith 3y ago

Outlook doesn't display that behavior in Linux. I checked.

_Algernon_ 3y ago

Each passing day I get happier with my switch to Linux as my daily driver after Win 7 EOL.

benlivengood 3y ago

The solution is to only use the web version of outlook. The nice thing about the web versions of office is that they're powerless on the local machine.

AJ007 3y ago
The solution is don't use outlook. Unbelievable how terrible the UI is for an email app.
- savingsPossible 3y ago
  Some of us have to use it for work :( (and forwarding was disabled 'for security reasons' -- that may very well be a company decision, not a MS one)
mfwit 3y ago
It, too, has its issues. Especially the 'New Outlook', which is esentially the web version in an app wrapper. Like always wanting to open the web versions of Office products when you go to open attachments instead of the actual app installed on your machine.

activiation 3y ago

Can we roll back to the internet of 20 years ago? (Except with GPT4)

dcomp 3y ago

I'm getting office365 nagging me to change the pdf viewer on android after each download in chrome about 15 minutes after the download. Can't find the setting to stop it.

umvi 3y ago

I would use edge if I could have shared bookmarks, passwords, etc with chrome (not simply import). But since I can't there's no point to using a Windows only browser when I also use Linux

Barrin92 3y ago
Edge has been available on linux for a while https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge/download?form=MA13FJ&ch https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge/download?form=MA13FJ&ch

regularjack 3y ago

Edit: I was wrong, it opens in Edge. I dislike Microsoft as much as the next person, but AFAICT this is about opening the link inside Outlook, in a sidepane: > ... browser links from the Outlook app will open in Microsoft Edge by default, right alongside the email they’re from in the Microsoft Edge sidebar pane. Also the title has been editorialized here, the original title describes what is actually happening: > Outlook emails open next to web links in Microsoft Edge You can also turn it off: > Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that.

clnq 3y ago
No, it opens in full Edge and then it shows your email in the new Edge toolbar/sidebar.

pc2g4d 3y ago

Recently went all-Linux on my new workstation, and news like this makes clear that it was the right move to give up on Windows completely. I dual-booted for... 20 years? Just not worth it anymore. The disk storage reclaimed, the file system partitioning undone, the user-hostile patterns avoided. Couldn't be happier.

atlgator 3y ago

The Outlook mobile web app has been down all day. Would be nice if Microsoft fixed it.

rchivalry 3y ago

Have not seen this reflected yet. Links I click on in outlook still open in my default browser.

coding123 3y ago

I don't really want links - I want a machine learning algorithm to summarize and categorize, provide action, and ultimately reply for me so that I can converse with my relative's AIs regularly.

briffid 3y ago

This can be good if I have multiple mailboxes/profiles and it opens private mails in my private browser profile, and work mails in my work profile.

1970-01-01 3y ago

You have the option to turn off this feature in Outlook settings.

henry2023 3y ago
We can't call this a "feature"

23B1 3y ago

The sooner we realize that 'product managers' and 'UX designers' are now as bad as used car salesmen and NFT hucksters, the better. I'm sorry, I LOVE building products and I LOVE design... but these fields have become grift central. No disrespect to folks in these fields, but remember how you came into this field talking about usability, cooperation, beautiful typography, color theory? Bring those back.

zgluck 3y ago
Microsoft has always been horrible at building web-based products. Recently they are also horrible at building Windows-based products. And at building Windows. But VSCode is okay, for now!
Zambyte 3y ago
> No disrespect to folks in these fields Why not? You can absolutely call people out for using Nuremberg defense. Just because someone ordered you to intentionally mistreat people doesn't mean that you did not intentionally mistreat people.
- 23B1 3y ago
  Honey>Vinegar
  - Zambyte 3y ago
    The most productive approach IMO is a little of both. Build designs that are intended to help people do what they want (instead of what you might want), and be loud about it. Neither being nice nor mean will persuade people working at Microsoft to be different. Being better and letting them know might though.
    - 23B1 3y ago
      Oh I don't have a problem calling out Microsoft at all. But I'm not gonna internet-shame some poor UX designer who is trying to pay her bills in this clown world – just want to encourage her to push back when she can.

AtNightWeCode 3y ago

Since probably a year back I can't get links in emails to open correctly from Outlook with any browser without copying the link manually. So for me it does not matter. I think apps should work in the general way an OS is designed. This change may lead to the same mobile app horrors where every app is also a browser that breaks common user flows.

dzogchen 3y ago

Richard Stallman playing the world's tiniest violin.

pcurve 3y ago

"Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that." Wow.

LorenDB 3y ago

OK, the page gives us a guide to submitting feedback about the feature. Everybody with Edge installed, please fire it up just this once and submit a plea to revert this! We can make Microsoft notice!

szundi 3y ago

So frustrating

jdlyga 3y ago

I wouldn't mind Edge if it were a Microsoft branded version of Chromium. It started out that way, and it was nice. But it's attracted every team at Microsoft and a total explosion of semi-useful features until it became totally bloated.

icelancer 3y ago

I just noticed this today. I was wondering if I screwed something up. Total bullshit.

tacker2000 3y ago

Apple also does this. Extremely infuriating.

dahwolf 3y ago

At least old Microsoft tried to hide or wash away their anti-consumer anti-competitive behavior. New Microsoft proudly announces it. And this reflects on other tech giants. They understand that they're in an era of near-zero regulation and can get away with seemingly anything.

Giorgi 3y ago

huh... it surprised me this morning, easy change trough setting though.

browningstreet 3y ago

I was looking at Distrowatch with my son.. lamenting at all the different distros, the distros I've never heard of, and the frequency of changes in the top 10 with distros I'm not familiar with. Free software devs are obviously free to do as they wish, but Apple vs Microsoft vs Google vs 100+ Linux distros wasn't going to lead to the outcome some of us were hoping for. We're looking at building a monster Davinci Resolve workstation and we might use Linux. He certainly wants to. But between our mobile devices (all iOS etc) and laptops -- we'd have a very mixed and heterogenous environment. I'm tired of maintaining all the different incompatibilities. I'm inclined to go all Apple, just to keep things clean. But the Distrowatch situation showed me how much Linux missed its "year of the desktop" window, so many years ago, and how having optimal hardware experiences across form-factors doesn't include Linux as a default, or obvious, or user-friendly option.. the way it does for servers and cloud ops.

0xedd 3y ago
The issue is that [non-tech] people don't go around changing OSes. So long as PCs come with a default of user-hostile-OS-1 or user-hostile-OS-2, the question of "Linux year of the desktop, when?" is invalid. That said, be responsible where you put your money. My wife no longer uses iOS. I no longer use iOS or Android. Raspberry is a media server for TV.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

nipperkinfeet 3y ago

Microsoft's black patterns are starting to irritate me. This most recent incidence had an effect on several of our 365 users. Even with GPO, this still overrides the browser's default settings. Microsoft buried the option to set the browser to its default in the settings of Outlook. For every user, we must change it manually. We'll be searching for alternatives to Microsoft Office in the future.

zvmaz 3y ago
> Microsoft Office in the future There are not many alternatives, are there?

spandrew 3y ago

It's AMAZING to me Microsoft is framing this as a UX improvement, when it's going against explicit user choice... which is one of the tenants of good UX? The Windows Start menu is already so broken though.

0xedd 3y ago

It's part of a long term plan. A couple of years ago I noticed the same decision in Control Panel help links. They do not allow choosing a different Open With other than Microsoft programs. Even though I had some other browser installed, the only browser in the list of Open With was Edge.

drdaeman 3y ago

https://github.com/rcmaehl/MSEdgeRedirect https://github.com/rcmaehl/MSEdgeRedirect still works

zwayhowder 3y ago

I noticed this last week during a brief foray into Windows on the desktop and honestly, I don't hate it. Before you down-vote let me tell you why. I use Outlook for work only, and I segregate my browsing so that work browsing is done in Edge and personal is not. I could do (and have done) Chrome or Firefox profiles, but moving completely to Edge hasn't been terrible. (Hello vertical tab bar on my widescreen laptop). I agree the pattern is bad if someone is using Outlook for their personal email, but I suspect the Venn diagram of people who use Outlook for personal email and people who install a different browser is probably small. As always this should be an option! On my Linux desktop and laptops I have my default browser set to firefox --profilemanager %u so that every link I click in Slack, Teams, Thunderbird etc I can select the correct profile to open it in.

riffic 3y ago

hasn't anyone actually learned anything or at least paid attention to the microsoft ecosystem after all these years?

user7878 3y ago

There's option to change that. Options -> Advanced -> Link Handling

gbraad 3y ago

I also see this happening on `mspaint`. For example, when you 'accidentally' click the help question mark instead of the exit cross, it will open Microsoft Edge with a search on Bing for "help with paint in windows".

mcavdar 3y ago

Setting "Options>Advanced>Open hyperlinks from Outlook in" to "Default Browser" should fix the issue for now.

ymolodtsov 3y ago

As Gavin Belson once said, there's no new Microsoft. There's just Microsoft.

gmerc 3y ago

Don’t get me started on the fucking gamification of the start menu with microsoft reward coins (+100 to try bing on edge) to drive microsoft internal team KPIs This is as bad as Facebooks legendary QP abuse in metrics season that everyone used to win their PSC because we are talking about 300$ product here, Win11 PRO that is as crammed with adware - tiktok, instagram, office, onedrive, blah blah blah as in the worst days of steve balmer now.

worksonmine 3y ago
Just a matter of time until you get to unlock RAM and storage from your own hardware by completing chores, "Make Edge your default browser to unlock +1GB of RAM". I haven't touched Windows in a decade and don't miss a single thing. Every computer literate user should make the switch.

JohnFen 3y ago

Fortunately, I only have to deal with Microsoft products at work. Unfortunately, one of those products is Outlook. Years ago, I developed the muscle memory of copying links from outlook and pasting them into a browser rather than clicking on them directly. This was to avoid various "helpful" things Microsoft insists of doing. Now, that habit will pay off in spades.

ivanjermakov 3y ago

What's the point of using desktop app for Outlook? Web version works well and it's much more limited to do such "tricks".

nokya 3y ago

I noticed. But I don't care. Currently, I use Microsoft products on a daily basis for my work, I only use Outlook for access the company email. Honestly, I'd never plug a personal email account in it, nor ever browse personal content on a Microsoft's browser. Firefox+Thunderbird all the way.

x3874 3y ago

[dupe]