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Quality of new vehicles in US declining on more tech use: study
- TX81Z 3y agoYeah we basically figured out door handles and suddenly we’re reinventing them. If it ain’t broke.
- api 3y ago“I want something in this design that will definitely break… let’s add some servo motors!”
- nickpinkston 3y ago"Put a bird on it" for design --> "Put a servo/wireless in it" for hardware...
- TX81Z 3y ago“Oh what I REALLY want is a smoke detector that will go permanently and silently offline during a firmware update.” …said nobody, and yet…
- sb057 3y agoI'm still skeptical of non-crank windows after seeing virtually all motorized windows eventually give out in 90's models.
- oblio 3y agoThe 90s were 20+ years ago. We learned how to make reliable electric windows at least 15 years ago.
- kortilla 3y agoYour sample is biased to the very first generation electric windows which are definitely crap.
- wrycoder 3y agoWe had electric windows in the fifties and the motors were reliable. The usual problem back then was the window track lining (a fur-like channel) wore out, and then the window cocked and jammed when you moved it.
- pornel 3y agoICE power trains had so many inherent inefficiencies (in heat and friction), that aerodynamic improvements alone had minor influence on overall fuel efficiency, so it wasn't worth optimizing. But now that EV power trains are way more efficient, and batteries hold only a fraction of energy of a gas tank, drag became a major problem. Flush handles became a real aero improvement worth making. Digital mirrors are next.
- TX81Z 3y agoThe most aerodynamic car would have no doors, mirrors, or hell - wheels. Optimization is always about careful balance of objectives in light of a holistic experience. Anybody can “optimize for x” if you just ignore y and z.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- alexey-salmin 3y agoDoor handles don't have to be electric to be efficient
- pornel 3y agoThey don't have to be intuitive and easy-to-use either. It's a tradeoff. Automatically popping door handles have an obvious affordance and can be grabbed without needing some extra press first. I happen to have a car with non-electric flush handles ("chip shortage" edition), and I have to teach all of my passengers how to use them.
- mjhay 3y agoThis is a particularly, uh, interesting example with Teslas, given the number of people that have been burnt alive in battery fires, unable to escape (e.g. [0]). However, the Tesla electronic door things are much cooler than mechanical latches, so who is to say whether they are a good idea or a bad idea? [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/23/man-died-burning-tesla-because-its-futuristic-doors-wouldnt-open-lawsuit-alleges/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/23/man-died-...
- AnimalMuppet 3y agoI'll say. If it's cool and it kills you, it's a bad idea.
- secabeen 3y ago> unable to escape That's a misleading summary. The driver was incapacitated, it was the first responders who couldn't open the door with the flush handles. The Model S in question has a normal, physical interior door handle. Presumably the first responder could have smashed the window and opened from the inside, but may not have had the tool. This outcome is indistinguishable from one where a first responder was presented with an ICE vehicle where the doors were locked.
- opisthenar84 3y agoThe industry is finally figuring out that tech is a tool, not a crutch.
- mcbutterbunz 3y agoTech is a tool to sell more flashy features in cars. It really needs to last only 3-5 years. If it breaks after your warranty is up, oh well.
- vsskanth 3y agoI've never understood this "flush door handle" trend. How many miles of EV range does that add ? Is it worth the reduced reliability?
- pornel 3y agoThink of overall energy expenditure as a pie chart. In ICE car a large chunk of that pie chart is heat waste. If you delete that chunk, everything else becomes relatively more important. In EVs there's very little power loss in the drivetrain itself, so other external factors like rolling resistance and aero drag become the major factors.
- kumarvvr 3y agoWouldn't the added weight & extra energy use of the actuation mechanism, cables and control system be more than the energy saved from aerodynamic losses?
- SamBam 3y agoYou could go ask all the engineers if they got it wrong.
- kumarvvr 3y agoYeah, it could very well be possible because the engineers could have concluded that this consumes more energy than it saves, but marketers insisted it be there because they are selling a luxury car to rich customers. You seem to imply that the engineers only approve something for technical reasons. Sometimes, they have to incorporate something for purely non-technical / efficiency reasons.
- ferongr 3y agoNo. The energy use is comparatively miniscule and weight (to a point) doesn't really matter for high speed, highway driving efficiency.
- 3y ago
- brucethemoose2 3y agoThey also have too much stuff in them. I want a "dumb" but well-built electric car... No side mirror lights, no motorized trunks, no suite of cabin sensors trying to figure out what I want, no air conditioned seats, and definitely no elaborate, janky, hilariously expensive infotainment system. Just put that engineering into the suspension and steering, please. I want a tablet mount and good A/C. Maybe power windows and nice speakers. And I will take the 900lbs and $10k+ that shaves off, thank you.
- Simorgh 3y agoI think it’s part of a wider trend in tech towards shipping features without due regard to the efficacy / performance of the product.
- jackmott42 3y agoEveryone can make a good car now, they are a commodity now. So to differentiate in the market you turn to nonsense (pointless features you can talk about) and obfuscation (confusing pricing and options and fees, ala airlines)
- hotpotamus 3y agoI'd say warranty is the feature I'm most interested in.
- flagrant_taco 3y agoI'd much rather have a reliably car than a solid warranty. If fewer creature comforts get me there then count me in.
- davidthewatson 3y agoThat's right... commodity fetishism manufacturing consent: https://www.alexanderrea.com/project/mcdonalds-happy-world/ https://www.alexanderrea.com/project/mcdonalds-happy-world/ Because what could be more fun than praying for autonomy at speed in a self-driving car while ordering a happy meal? I'm happy they stopped at the concept. Given the lack of regulation, I'm surprised we don't have drones dropping happy meals through moon-roofs in traffic like turkeys-via-chopper on WKRP in Cincinnati.
- shams93 3y agoMy mom doesn't understand that her car isn't broken, any modern car has to be driven daily or all the extra stuff will leach that battery.
- rsuelzer 3y agoHaha, this is true. What's frustrating is that my PHEV has 12kw of battery, but I can't let it sit for more than a week without needing to jump it because they can't charge the 12v battery off of the drive-train battery system. DOH!
- Panoramix 3y agoIt's broken by design
- qbasic_forever 3y agoIf you want the simplicity of pressing a button on keyfob or just walking up and opening the door with NFC unlock, then by design something is going to be draining the battery very slowly.
- smeej 3y agoThe fact that that can't run off of some auxiliary battery pack that can die without killing your starter battery is just silly. Much better just to have a backup key system to unlock the door, but still have the car start.
- inconceivable 3y agosome cars have a long-term sleep mode. you pull the handle to switch the keyless stuff back on. this still drains the battery, but even slower. of course, that can malfunction also.
- ezfe 3y agoMy cars both have an app and full cellular connection (2020 and 2023 model years) and they can go two weeks without a risk of not starting. Haven't gone longer though.
- porknubbins 3y agoThis headline is hopelessly overbroad in its use of “quality” and “tech”. If this trend is real is it about OEMs cheaping out and using crappy UI and ergonomics. Touch panel door handles sound godawful but I haven’t seen those yet. I don’t think the tech used in the various ECUs in a modern car has demonstrably caused a decrease in quality, and it has certainly increased capabilities.
- mcbutterbunz 3y agoOur Honda has touch sensors in the door handle and it unlocks when I grab the handle. I find it awesome since the car is keyless. The entertainment system is absolutely horrible. I just want a simple radio but I have about a dozen different “inputs” to select from just to move between AM and FM. I swear whoever designs these are purposefully making them bad just to fuck with us.
- jstarfish 3y ago> I swear whoever designs these are purposefully making them bad just to fuck with us. Nah, just making the data support a desired outcome. "Our telemetry data shows that customers just aren't using the radio. It should be safe to stop offering it as a standard feature."
- rsuelzer 3y agoIsn't Tesla touch handle doors? Not sure who else has them. Not sure what benefit they add anyway. I'd imagine there is some sort of manual override for when the 12v system dies and you can't get into the car?
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoMy guess (based on living on a dirt road which gets everything in a vehicle coated in a layer of fine clay dust) is that it reduces the number of water/dirt ingress points so the door lock lasts longer. I've had to take the door panels off two vehicles now to clean dirt out of the locks to get them working again.
- nickpinkston 3y agoGive me a 3000 lbs RWD 6 speed with >300HP with knobs for everything, and I'm in heaven. Make Cars Elegant Again
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoA bit over 3k lbs, and rated at just 287hp, but I'm thinking of selling my 2004 350Z. Only 153k miles, I'll make you a deal :-)
- kortilla 3y ago10% over MSRP?
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoThat would def be a deal.
- manual89 3y agoAll good except for the inevitable 30% ADM on cars like that.
- aquaticsunset 3y agoGrab a Camaro while you can! It fits the bill all for under $30k.
- nickpinkston 3y agoI should've said "with a real suspension" haha. Though I actually owned a Firebird in college LOL
- dontlaugh 3y agoWhy would you need a car that heavy and that overpowered?
- juujian 3y agoI haven't owned a car for multiple years, but I might need one again very soon (moving...) and at this time... I don't even want to buy one. It seems like such a hassle. Researching what car company has not plastered microchips all over their car, which will inevitably break. Figuring out which maker has actually tested their car. Figuring out what model is the least technizised. By this time, even second hand cars are mostly from a period where car makers but aweful stuff into their cars...
- morkalork 3y agoWhich ones have known issues with phantom emergency braking, which ones leak/share/phone home your personal data and so on.
- djbusby 3y agoI recently, after being sans-auto for many years needed a car. 2012 Toyota - no touch-screen, no-saas. Should go another 10 years.
- ezfe 3y agoJust bought a 2023 Toyota Corolla. Disable the telemetry (easy to do, prompted during setup) and you've got a 50 MPG sedan with a basic gauge cluster and standard infotainment screen, but nothing else for less than $25k (excl. taxes)
- smeej 3y ago50mpg is for the non-hybrid version? Or is that the hybrid? I've been expecting my next car will be a Corolla when my Prius gives up the ghost, but I didn't know they'd reached quite that high with the ICE version.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago2023 corolla ice is 43 mpg, hybrid is 46, both highway. Ice mpg hasn't changed much in 20yrs, as the cars have gotten heavier. A 2023 Carolla is 3000lbs, and a 2015 is 2500lbs, which takes 17% more energy to get to speed
- HumblyTossed 3y agoGreat, 80s all over again.
- galkk 3y agoOh. I’m in market for high trim truck and per all driver reddits those things are unreliable as hell. Manufacturers cheapen on everything and hope that more leather and chrome will cover racked up price
- CyberDildonics 3y agoOh. If they're all unreliable why do you want one?
- kortilla 3y agoHave you found a good recommendation of what to get?
- dieselgate 3y agoDiesel ford or dodge from the 80s-90s is my recommendation.
- galkk 3y agoFrom what I read ram has bad rep, Tacoma is ok albeit quite spartan. Tundra is also ok. F150 is more or less safe choice but sometimes you can get real piece of shit. Look at misadventures of a guy of “gears and gadgets” YouTube channel with his expensive f150 platinum.
- aquaticsunset 3y agoI'd say it entirely depends on what stuff you're looking for. I'd pass on something like a Denali because the electronics and added trim pieces seem to be the most unreliable parts. The powertrain will be fine. If anything my personal preference would be a mid-trimmed spec that skips things like a HUD, self driving, and leather trimmed door panels. Forward collision detection, a great sound system, and a platform that's mechanically dependable is my go-to.
- hahamrfunnyguy 3y agoJust got a 2023 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. The UX is awful, full of bugs and quirks. If it was an app I would have already uninstalled it. Unfortunately, I am stuck with an expensive car that is super clunky. I doubt any of the bug reports or usability issues are I've shared with the dealership or Mitsubishi are even going to get fixed.
- simondotau 3y agoHey, cheer up, at least you don’t have to feel bad about buying an EV with CCS1 just as North America is converging towards NACS.
- rsuelzer 3y agoI have the 2019. I needed AWD, as I have 10 miles of muddy roads to get to my house. I now regret not buying a Subaru for the 10k above MSRP or whatever the ransom was back then. The milage on the Outlander PHEV is comically terrible once the battery is empty. Yet somehow, it's a "clean air vehicle" (LOL) It's also crazy to me that "SPORT" utility vehicles don't have a trailer hitch by default. What are people using these things for? Oh yeah, automakers have convinced people living in cities that they need an oversized disgusting SUV to be safe, increase their odds of running over children, pets, and having catastrophic rollovers. The automakers like it because SUV's have much almost no safety standards compared to cars and no gas milage CAFE requirements! I often hate myself for owning an SUV, but it was most practical vehicle for the rural area I'm in that was available at the time for a reasonable price. Biggest annoyances with the Outlander 1) 12v system dies even when you have enough energy on board to power a house for a day. 2) It's a cargo ship with no cargo room. The front seats don't go all the way down, so I can't fit anything in this environmental disaster that I couldn't fit in a Ford Fiesta Hatchback. The back seats have things like cup holders and weird design features blocking the ability to use it to move stuff. 3) Why did they reinvent how you shift into gear? I need to explain to people who use my car how to put it into drive and park. 4) No spare tire! Now, I drive around with a spare floating around in the back that I purchased since not having a spare is a disaster waiting to happen in a rural area. </rant> Yeah, I will drive this into the ground and never buy an SUV again.
- whyenot 3y agoMy 2012 Toyota Tacoma has no screens, no remote door locks, no power windows or seats. After 11 years and 130k miles, everything still works perfectly. I dread the day I have to replace it. Hopefully that will be in at least another 100k miles. Simple, mechanical cars (and trucks) don’t seem to exist anymore. It’s a shame.
- Fomite 3y agoOne of the things I love about my VW GTI is I managed to get the "Wolfsburg Edition", which had everything I wanted and nothing I didn't. Including a lot of physical buttons and no screen in the center console.
- Bagged2347 3y agoWhat model year is your GTI?
- Fomite 3y ago2013 - I think.
- pcurve 3y agoAs long as you don't tire of it, chances are, you will have no problem driving it for another 11 years and 130k miles. In fact, I'm very confident. I have a 2014 mazda 3 manual hatch. I don't think I'll ever sell this car. ever.
- donw 3y ago> Simple, mechanical cars (and trucks) don’t seem to exist anymore. It’s a shame. New ones were made illegal during the Obama administration, and the Bush administration destroyed a bunch of the old ones with "Cash for Clunkers".
- jimt1234 3y ago130K? Pfft. Those are rookie numbers LOL. My Tacoma recently turned over 300K, and it still runs great. I've never had any problems with it.
- djbusby 3y agoThere seems to be a bit of push-back happen to "smart" things in general. As now, many Smart things are tied to some shit-ass SaaS. We see it in TV, Car, Toaster, Lamps, Mower, Fridge, etc. I think there is room for manufacturer of just dumb things. Or how can consumers push? Well, they can't really. If all the options are smart what do you do? Forego the purchase? Or spend many hours shopping around?
- supportengineer 3y ago“Buy nothing” groups.
- hoosieree 3y ago> what do you do? Forego the purchase? Blasphemy!
- fendy3002 3y agoThe problem isn't the "smart" things. It's that companies are exploiting that "smart" to have more leverage and control over user and increase revenue. Even worse, even some regulations are supporting that practice rather than against them. In the future (or maybe it already is), most of our appliances and vehicles will be subscription-based just because companies can push it.
- OneLeggedCat 3y ago> In the future (or maybe it already is), most of our appliances and vehicles will be subscription-based just because companies can push it. This makes me angry and sad. But evidence so far shows it to be completely true. Free markets are not properly sorting this out, because markets are not really free. Instead they are mostly oligopoly, and can thus control image and regulation and competition.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- blake1 3y agoI saw a Wi-Fi enabled lightbulb today. I cannot think what the use case is for such a device.
- renewiltord 3y agoPersonally, I love all the features. I drove a Chrysler Pacifica in Hawaii and it was an incredible car. I would want something like that to move a family around in. And my Subaru Forester's lane keeping makes longer drives much more comfortable. I haven't had any trouble with my Forester, so if that's the level of unreliability people are talking about, I am very comfortable with it and eager to get more features for that cost.
- neilv 3y agoAt this moment, looks like all the comments on a techbro forum are saying they don't want the analogue of techbro design of their cars?! But these car manufacturers are "innovating"! And "changing the world"! Sounds like some target customers are "resistant to change" and "unwilling to learn new things"! I wonder what "stacks" these car innovators are using. And which "move fast and break things" methodology. Obviously some "design systems" with all the merit of the prevailing techbro-favored adtech-driven ones. I bet a lot of "promos" happened. Live by the sword, die by the sword. (Hopefully not in a touchscreen-involved collision.)
- s1artibartfast 3y agoIt is almost as if painting people with broad brush strokes is inaccurate, and different people have different preferences. Going even further, it would appear as if the same people might even have different preferences for different products!
- rsuelzer 3y agoAgree with all of this, however, I remember when an American car making it to 100k miles without major problems was nearly unheard of. Or at least, that's how I seem to remember it. My parents had several Dodge / Chrysler's in the 1990's that had catastrophic failure before reaching 100k miles. The exception was our Ford Escort which lasted to 180k miles before the engine needed a rebuild, which likely had something do with a sibling not changing the oil for 25k miles. It seems like we have more reliable engines, drive trains, and less reliable $2 chips that turns those things on.
- donw 3y ago200k+ was common, even in the 80s, if you followed the recommended maintenance schedule. Lots of people... don't.
- csours 3y agoOn some vehicles.
- rsuelzer 3y agoYeah, I haven't seen any actual data. But it seems widely accepted that American automakers in the 80s and 90s lost a lot of market share to foreign makers over (real or perceived) reliability issues.
- donw 3y agoJapanese makes were much more reliable when they hit the market, but US automakers did step up during the late 80s, although never to the level of the Japanese. Detroit, moreover, built itself a reputation in the 70s and early-to-mid 80s for building overpriced junkbox boat-anchors, which continues to this day.
- Tagbert 3y agoThe reputation may continue but American cars are much more reliable today. They may not match the best of the Japanese but they seem to beat the European makes significantly.
- voisin 3y agoPeople in the future will look back at this era as the time we stupidly threw technology at absolutely everything with zero regard for whether it was a good idea or actually improved the user experience. Shameful.
- gooob 3y agogadgetry* not technology.
- s1artibartfast 3y agoSometimes the best way to win is to not play, or in this case, not buy products that suck. In my case, this means driving a 2006 Toyota Corolla with manual windows, manual locks, and mechanical controls. It gets 40 plus miles per gallon it has no wiring under the hood. I can fix just about anything with a wrench and a $40 part.
- argonaut 3y agoThis is based on the JD Power Initial Quality Survey which can't really be used to measure "quality" because they mix together "things customers get annoyed by" and "actual defects." For example, if I'm annoyed by having to use the touchscreen in a Tesla Model 3 to open the glove box, that counts as a problem even if it has nothing to do with the actual build quality. So in this case it makes sense that more tech = more things to get annoyed about, whether or not the tech is reliable.
- csours 3y agoYes. The JD Power Surveys can be VERY useful, but you have to understand the intent of each one, and you have to understand that it may not be what first comes to mind when you read the title.
- 93po 3y agoAnd also understand that JD makes all of its money from traditional auto manufacturers and has no legal obligation or accountability for accuracy or lack of bias
- arrozconcosas 3y agoAnything that ranks Dodge as #1 in quality is suspect.
- dieselgate 3y agoWas thinking similarly. People rave about the slant 6 engine and how it lasts forever, same for the diesel engines used in their trucks but those are Cummins built
- bumby 3y agoSmall subtle distinction: quality can refer to both “does it do the thing right” and “does it do the right thing”. Customer (dis)satisfaction can be a measure of the latter even if the products perfectly meets the former.
- civilized 3y ago
- ChatGTP 3y agoI seek out simpler older cars for this reason, I just don't want a "software" car. I want a dumb, electric, reliable car. Why can't someone just make those at an affordable price? Why should an electric car be a tablet with wheels? Edit: Self-driving cars with driver facing cameras and microphones, just no, no, I do not want this.
- impissedoff1 3y agoJD power always reminds me of this parody guy https://youtube.com/watch?v=I_wdo4ihcd8 https://youtube.com/watch?v=I_wdo4ihcd8 https://youtube.com/watch?v=rZKUbzAdb7E https://youtube.com/watch?v=rZKUbzAdb7E
- idatum 3y agoI'm done with new cars. I have a 2016 VW Golf GTI, manual transmission, 3G telemetry already dead, minimal infotainment crap but good backup cam. Not for sale!
- hirvi74 3y agoI have had many VWs in my life. They have all been mechanical dreams and electronic nightmares. My 2007 GTI was probably the best driving and worst electronics I have had, coincidentally, at the same time.
- alex_young 3y agoQuality ratings of Tesla Inc (TSLA.O), which is not officially ranked among other brands in the study as it did not meet ranking criteria, increased by 31 PP100 year-over-year to 257 PP100 in 2023. Seems like a large oversight since they manufacture the best selling car on the road right now.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- cush 3y agoI test drove a 2021 Subaru Outback a few years ago. The center console was a giant touchscreen with no physical buttons. To turn up or down the climate control, it was two taps and a swipe. Ridiculous UX for a car. I opted for the used 2019 based on this single reason. The whole point of a touchscreen is to support software with dynamic controls - UIs that can change from situation to situation or app to app. I'm never in a situation where I don't need direct physical access to the volume knob or climate controls. I need to keep my eyes on the road. Subaru ended up adding back the buttons in the 2023 model.
- mym1990 3y agoRented a Ford Edge recently and it had a similar setup. The screen had some lag, which just exacerbated my fumbling around for controlling the AC while driving. Hard pass.
- lgleason 3y agoI remember the story of my dad buying a brand new 1982 Buick Century in 1982 with the iron duke 4 cylinder Tech IV engine. This was the 1st year that engine came with electronic fuel injection. Since they bought the car new they had issues where under certain conditions the car would start to jerk and then stall so you would have to pull off to the side of the road, wait a few minutes then you could start the car agin and continue on. At this point, fuel injection was just starting to become mainstream due to high gas prices, stricter federal emissions standards and was still buggy. The car went back to the dealer multiple times to try to fix the issue to no avail and ironically 3 years later right before the warranty ran out my dad took it to a independent mechanic who was able to determine that the car had the wrong computer installed. You were not dealing with reprogrammable modules in that year. So they replaced it and the problem went away. These were also the early years of the transition in the US from larger rear wheeled drive cars and lighter, smaller front wheel drive ones. One day my mother was turning to back out of the driveway while the car was fairly new when she heard a bang, one side of the front end dipped and the corresponding tire went flat. What happened is that the mechanism for holding the spring in for the front did not have any kind of a shield, the spring broke and punctured the tire. Had she been driving down the road when that happened it probably would have caused an accident. These days that is common and that is not generally an issue. I also remember stories of my dad's 1980 Buick Skylark that had a lot of problems with the new electronic controls that were added to the carburetor to aid in fuel efficiency. By the 1990's the quality got better, but it feels like we are in a similar situation with these newer cars. Back during those years my understanding was that they would long for the simpler carbureted engines without all of the crazy emissions controls items that were causing problems and the cars that had frames instead of the newer more efficient unibody cars. Once it was perfected and things were commoditized it was not an issue, but it feels like we are in a similar situation with the new tech right now.
- stjohnswarts 3y agoAlso it's built in obsolescence. The cost to fix stuff after 8-10 years can cost more than the vehicle itself and almost impossible for a DYI fix.
- pwpw 3y agoI just want a sedan with primarily analogue controls that’s reliable, comfortable/quiet, and is enjoyable to drive on a nice day. Perhaps I need to look at older Lexuses and Toyotas.
- yazzku 3y agoNot to mention that they're riddled with surveillance.
- dbg31415 3y agoIt's impossible to find a new car that doesn't have a ton of blinky lights and stupid shit in it. I don't want a touch screen, I don't want a bunch of powered features that just drive up the cost, weight, and repair costs... I just went and test drove a bunch of cars. In the end I decided to just have the engine in my 2008 Honda S2000 rebuilt. Nothing modern comes close to what I want. Very hard to find a manual transmission. And the only buttons I want in the car are a start button, some volume up and down toggles on my steering wheel, and a button to make the roof retract. I don't want all the stupid shit they are bolting into cars. I just want one that's fun to drive, and easy to maintain, and I don't think I'm the only one. Cars all suck now, they all feel the same. Literally we're in the car dark ages. And I hate how it makes me feel old. Why are things shittier than they used to be? It’s really sad. Where is the 2023 version of the Honda S2000?!
- lowbloodsugar 3y ago>. In the end I decided to just have the engine in my 2008 Honda S2000 rebuilt. Just curious how much that is gonna cost. Was looking at S2000s online today.
- dbg31415 3y agoNew top and engine rebuild and a bit of cosmetic body work and a new AC. $13k all told I think. I think the engine is $3500-5000 of that. Ballpark. But that pretty much gets get car to look like new again. Biggest expense on the S2K is probably tires. I got through a set every 10-12k miles. I could get more durable tires maybe. But the car being so crazy grippy is one of the things that makes it fun to drive.
- lowbloodsugar 3y agoYou think the tires $$$ on an S2000, you should try running a mustang with 325s on the rear and 295s on the front, or 305s square. Have a mate running a brz and a set of tires is the price of one of my rears. Consumables is why I'm looking at something smaller and lighter!
- ksaj 3y agoOne day we'll all look back and realize how much we miss tactile controls that didn't require you to look away from the road in order to enable/disable something trivial or change the music (radio or whatever it may be). Where I live, you'll get a hefty fine for looking at your cell phone while driving. But meanwhile in a Tesla you have to occasionally stare at a giant iPad to get anything done.
- gkanai 3y ago> One day we'll all look back and realize how much we miss tactile controls After the US Navy did their accident report on the US John McCain, they went back to physical controls from touchscreens. https://news.usni.org/2019/08/09/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls https://news.usni.org/2019/08/09/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to... I have a car with a touchscreen and while I like some of what it can do, I dont want all controls on the touchscreen- only what is best for the screen such as the map, the camera views, etc. I prefer physical controls for most everything else.
- nathants 3y agobuying a car has never been easier. look at openpilot cars with good torque and steer to zero. pick one you like, and buy the base trim. been on forestor 2015, civic 2018, and sonata 2021. each has been better than the last. hopefully next one will not be ice.
- 111111IIIIIII 3y ago> growing use of technology and lower build quality of certain parts are making the models more "problematic" What do they think technology is?
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoIt's the dumb executives following industry trends arms race. Like how when the iphone came out in one big piece of glass and no buttons, every other smartphone had to follow suit, even though it's backwards to make your phone both more breakable and harder to type on. Now it's dumb car executives following dumb car gimmicks.
- nobodyandproud 3y agoSoftware-related audio issues with my Volvo: https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/all-audio-gone-music-phone-even-turn-signal-sounds.591397/ https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/all-audio-gone-music-phon... I can live without music, but turn signal audio or collision alerts are a must.
- civilized 3y agoI don't understand why this keeps happening. Nobody was asking for this trend of expensive unreliable garbage, and yet it keeps going with seemingly unstoppable momentum. Just a wild guess, but I think executives are trapped in a zero-to-one techie wannabe ideology, where they think stuffing vehicles with crapware "new features" will make them the next FAANG.
- seydor 3y agomaybe because valuations trumped sales. If only they could add AI to their names
- donatj 3y ago> Dodge ranked the highest overall in terms of initial quality, while Chrysler and Volvo were jointly ranked lowest This statement had me skeptical at the results as Dodge and Chrysler have the same exact electronics.
- bob_theslob646 3y agoIt's specifically talking about Ram. Kind of confusing, to be fair as the ram pickup truck got the highest quality award "Highest-Ranking Brands and Models Dodge is the highest-ranking brand overall in initial quality with a score of 140 PP100. Among mass market brands, Ram (141 PP100) ranks second and Buick (162 PP100) ranks third."[1](https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-initial-quality-study-iqs https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-init...)
- RickJWagner 3y agoI'd like a Prius drivetrain in something like the body of a 1990 Toyota small pickup with hand-cranked windows and minimal accessories. It boggles the mind to think how long such a vehicle would last.
- pkphilip 3y agoThe situation is not better with motorcycles. The heavy use of electronics has made it very difficult to diagnose issues. I have a friend who has a Triumph which suddenly moved the bike into a ride mode so slow it is only used for taking bikes to a service centre for immediate repairs. They have not been able to figure out exactly why the bike chose that mode and they have been replacing sensor after sensor to diagnose the issue for the past 4-5 months with no success.
- fwungy 3y agoI did some modeling of the future auto market in graduate school. My model came up with a huge demand for low priced, simple ICE vehicles as a response to increased energy costs and lowered disposable income levels for many consumers. EV demand came from the high end of the market as consumers willing to spend a lot of money were more open to switching because they were spending a lot of money anyway and it was another option, and ROI on the EV is based on the consumer's ability to overcome the frontend costs, which wealthy consumers are more capable of.
- yomlica8 3y agoLow priced ICE don't even really seem to exist and I think it is because they've essentially been regulated out of existence. Crash standards and emission standards require a ton of technology even on the cheapest cars so there isn't much money to even be saved here. I actually think this is part of the "no one wants to work anymore" narrative. Like it not, America is setup so you need a car to go to work. And simple cars have been removed from the supply line. So it becomes a money losing proposition to work a really low paid job if you need to buy and maintain an expensive car just to get to it. I'm not even saying that improved emission standards and crash test requirements are a bad thing, just that the cost of them has to be absorbed somewhere.
- fwungy 3y agoIt's sad the people who need the lower cost vehicles are people of color, and the people who push for these regulations are people of privilege. As I've learned in my courses from work, racism is pervasive and surfaces in manners conscious and unconscious.
- resuresu 3y agoIts all on purpose to lock you out of fixing your own car.