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French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
- olliej 3y agoI mean yes, in the same sense that people who use computers are potential terrorists. Seriously these BS claims should be shut down.
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y agoPeople who track and profile me online are potential terrorists
- GuB-42 3y agoAn important detail is that the state has been condemned for that. This goes to show that France is not a totalitarian regime. The government fucked up, justice, as an independent power punished it and the illegally detained suspect is now free. The whole story is freely reported by French media. So is it bad: yes. Is it tolerated and are dissenters being silenced: no. For the rest, we will have to wait until the trial, but if the accusers don't have anything better than the use of Signal and uBlock, it probably won't end well for them, even if they represent the government.
- anyoneamous 3y agoI mean, everyone is a potential terrorist - so since putting everyone in prison is obviously not practical, maybe the politicians should put themselves in prison then hold a committee meeting on redefining the terms "inside" and "outside" to make themselves feel better.
- scrumlord 3y ago[dead]
- Astro-Domine 3y ago[dead]
- egberts1 3y agoWill it be paving the way of replacing French government with a sixth form of republic or a 25th form of a government? I mean, we all know that president dissolving the parliment/congress/house is an unworkable mechanism for a sustainable government. A government that is afraid of its citizens is the right kind of governance: it keeps them within their expected functions: "expected" is the operative word.
- browningstreet 3y agoHammers, knives, baseball bats, plastic bags, string, shovels… …automobiles, rental-vans…
- BrandoElFollito 3y agoI support some protests in France, this is what fueled the state we have today with is social safety nets. I do not support the protests that destroy public and private property. Someone who supports such violence should have their house destroyed and looted and then affirm "well done!". Somehow this does not happen. Neither the leaders who support squatting do not advertise their house address and when they go for vacation to incite the squatters to take their house and make it a trashbin. There are different ways to protest but when you go for violence do not be surprised you get violence back (including non physical). This is not talked to any political wing - as someone said the extremes usually meet.
- isitmadeofglass 3y ago[dead]
- deftturtle 3y agocan confirm.
- user6723 3y agoWell, if some dipshit in a costume is gonna show up and point a gun at me for using open source software of my choice, I just may contemplate responding with violence, possibly in a coordinated manner. Governments would be wise, so long as I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone else, to mind their own business and fuck off. Don't make me get out my AR-15 with its standard rapacity 45rd mag
- classified 3y agoDuh. _Everyone_ is a potential terrorist.
- xcombelle 3y agothis article miss a whole part of the story. among other things, these person came back from a warzone. looks at https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_du_8_décembre_2020 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_du_8_décembre_2020
- midoridensha 3y agoVery interesting; it looks like these people went to Syria to fight ISIS, and got this ill treatment when they returned. Why does it seem like the French government is always supporting the worst actors in any conflict? ISIS is (was) so evil and barbaric, they make Putin seem like a great guy. Why would volunteering to fight them ever be seen in a bad light?
- AmericanChopper 3y agoThe monopoly on violence is the central component of the power of the state. This case undermines that power as much as violence used in self defence does, and is being prosecuted as passionately as self defence killings often are.
- dredmorbius 3y agoThe monopoly is on the legitimate claim to force, and is based on Max Weber. David Runciman has an excellent explanation of this in the "Talking Politics" podcast which I recommend unreservedly: <https://play.acast.com/s/history-of-ideas/weberonleadership https://play.acast.com/s/history-of-ideas/weberonleadership> (Specific segment occurs ~15 minutes in.)
- AmericanChopper 3y agoThat podcast does have an interesting explanation of the idea, and Max Weber did provide interesting insights into it. But the governments exerting monopolistic control over violence (to differing levels at different times and places) goes back basically as far as organised society does. The legitimate claim to violence in self defence is just as ubiquitous and has always been at least philosophically at odds with the claim of the state. With that contention arise from the fact that a claim to violence in self defence must either arise from a failure of the state to perform its duties in upholding law and order, or a failure of the individual to follow the law. With the potential for controversy arising from the fact that it’s largely the state who gets to decide whether it was at fault, or if the individual in question was.
- pndy 3y agoEnglish version of the article doesn't mention uBlock Origin at all https://www.laquadrature.net/en/2023/06/05/criminalization-of-encryption-the-8-december-case/ https://www.laquadrature.net/en/2023/06/05/criminalization-o...
- midoridensha 3y agoThe French version (readable with a translation extension) does, but it's just one of a long list of things including GrapheneOS, LineageOS, Jitsi, FDroid, Tor, RiseupVPN, etc.
- nestorD 3y agoThe key is that, while there is suspicion (the people arrested have a far left ideology, have been to Syria to fight against the Islamic state, own weapons and encrypt all of their communications), there is no crime nor proof of an intent to commit a crime. These people have been sent to prison because they are suspicious, not because of an action they have done (something made possible as a special case of an older antiterrorism law). And, amongst other things, using Signal and Linux with the encryption-on settings are explicitly listed as some of the things making them suspicious in the eyes of the law. That is a slippery slope.
- 908B64B197 3y ago> That is a slippery slope. It's par for the course in a country that bans paternity testing (to "protect the 'unity' of families"! ) [0] [0] https://idtodna.com/paternity-test-in-france/ https://idtodna.com/paternity-test-in-france/
- theonlybutlet 3y agoWithout the test you'd be none the wiser. Why the need to reduce your relationship to mere contractual obligations. If you raised the child its yours.
- asddubs 3y agoIt's not really a slippery slope, we've already arrived at the bad thing
- jacknews 3y agoOh dear, they used to be able to monitor everything through alcatel backdoors. I guess they lost that ability now, and are trying to criminalize private communication.
- hunglee2 3y agoWe should ask Signal users to prove the negative, or less be deemed guilty and subject to sanctioning.
- hknmtt 3y ago"radioactive materials can be used to make bombs, let's ban them altogether" "knifes can be used to stab people, let's ban them altogether" "cleaning supplies can be used to poison people, let's ban them altogether" #logik also, potential = guilty until proven innocent
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- TheLoafOfBread 3y agoWait until French figures out that bananas are radioactive. Every supermarket selling them will by raided by GIGN for selling nuclear weapons.
- jjgreen 3y agoThe British Medical Journal beat you to it: The Home Office is looking for ways to reduce knife crime. We suggest that banning the sale of long pointed knives is a sensible and practical measure that would have this effect. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC558080/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC558080/
- elkos 3y agoMany officials use these daily on their personal devices
- asddubs 3y agoI guess technically everyone is a potential terrorist
- hkt 3y ago10/10, laughed my head off Maybe this is like a logic bomb but for authoritarians. Try to convince Macron or random police officers that they too are _potential_ terrorists and watch them go cross eyed.
- bryanrasmussen 3y agonot the real terrorists!
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y agoSomeone who doesn't have a smartphone should be shot on sight - he must be a terrorist for sure.
- sofixa 3y agoAs others have mentioned, context matters a lot. The arrested group came back from Syria (where they fought alongside YPG against ISIS) radicalised, and were monitored ever since then. Their alleged crime isn't using Signal, it's just that a French anti-terrorism law allows to be arrested for "organisation with the intent to commit terrorist acts", which the DGSI(internal intelligence services) claims a radicalised group of people calling for a revolution, using encrypted communications, having a bunch of hunting weapons and ammunition, and materials for explosives is. A big stretch on the surface, but they were monitoring them for years, so who the hell knows what else they have. The real problem is the unlawful detention of one of the men, for which a court finally intervened and he has been freed under surveillance.
- franciscop 3y agoIt should be very clear IMHO; they have nothing, if they caught the group with "a bunch of hunting weapons and ammunition" then they can arrest them for that and that'd be a lot more serious ground for the argument of "intent to commit terrorist acts". Since it seems they don't have anything, they are criminalizing normal tools and dev tools because your average reader/citizen doesn't know the difference between a hacker and a cracker, let alone the right of privacy vs conspiring. The only nice thing IMHO is that everyone uses Whatsapp and no one considers it "criminal", so by bundling Signal etc together with Whatsapp they are making themselves look like they are exaggerating for the average person.
- martin8412 3y agoDepending on when it occurred, traveling into Syria could be a crime in itself. France and other EU countries banned the travel to Syria unless you were associated with a limited number of groups(humanitarian, journalism, diplomatic mission etc.). Joining any warring party was explicitly prohibited.
- willis936 3y agoAt least in the US it is illegal to stockpile materials for making explosives without explicit licensing.
- 3y ago
- someweirdperson 3y agoWasn't there a time when French FidoNet could not exchange zipped mail, because that would be considered encryption? Maybe my memory is inventing things though.
- hkt 3y agoI'm not sure, but encryption was outlawed entirely in France until 1999 or so: https://www.theregister.com/1999/01/15/france_to_end_severe_encryption/ https://www.theregister.com/1999/01/15/france_to_end_severe_...
- getrealal 3y agoI laughed at this part: >French minister for the economy and finance, Domenica Strauss-Khan, has said she wishes to liberalise Dominique Strauss-Kahn (they also butchered his last name) is definitely not a woman (but it's a "mixed" name indeed, that both men and women can have). Back in those days it was also illegal to share radio frequencies used by the military (since comms were not always encrypted; details about frequency and modulation were secret), and a guy got prosecuted for doing just that.
- Krisjohn 3y agoMy French is basically inexistant, but are they saying that attempting to protect your privacy is an indication that you might be a terrorist?
- Woshiwuja 3y agoBasically yes
- ThePowerOfFuet 3y agoDeepL works great FR-EN.
- croes 3y agoSo I guess the French government doesn't use encryption, otherwise ... What about HTTPS? Suspicious.
- GoblinSlayer 3y agoIsn't HTTPS required by GDPR?
- lionkor 3y ago[flagged]
- anhner 3y agoyes, because obviously France = EU, big brain time
- TurboHaskal 3y agoCorrect, it's just 1/2 EU.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y agoSo union mandated terrorism?
- moffkalast 3y agoClearly the EU is a terrorist organization /s
- quickthrower2 3y agoNothing an EU mandated root cert won't fix.
- raxxorraxor 3y agoThey certainly try to do just that. I am ready to purge that cert and hope browsers would get forked quickly.
- smeagull 3y agoSounds like you might need uBlock Origin to protect yourself from the French government.
- blank1729 3y ago[flagged]
- fransje26 3y agoWell, in fact, people with knives are considered potential killers in France, to the discretion of the police officer searching you/your car/etc. You have a small opinel knife at the bottom of your backpack to cut your saucisson and the police is in a bad mood? Straight to jail.
- agilob 3y agoUnder UK law rape can only be committed using a penis, so all men are potential rapists.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- defrost 3y agoTo clarify this; women in the UK can commit this offence as an accomplice, and anyone can potentially be convicted of the equivalent offence Assault by penetration ie. 'rape' with not a penis objects. https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-7-key-legislation-and-offences https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offenc...
- junon 3y agoThat's still an absurd definition of rape.
- defrost 3y agoIf you detach and consider "the Law" as a standards document it makes more sense to read the two as "old school rape" definition being grandfathered and replaced by the newer Assault by penetration and realising that there's still a whole other spectrum of sexual assault behaviours that can be considered under law that don't involve penetration. Like mathematics, engineering, and any number of other technical domains, Law is riddled with precise domain definitions of words that don't always align with common non technical understandings and casual usage.
- agilob 3y agoTerrorists in France from a few years ago used text messages and PSP groups to communicate. Game over grandmas and gamers.
- exabrial 3y agole haha! I just re-installed! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
- fghorow 3y ago"I fart in your general direction." </ObMontyPythonOutrageousFrenchAccent>
- Avlin67 3y agoI have great respect for Quadrature du Net but bear in mind they are almost extrem left and whatever govt say they will be against...
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoTrue, but they are very serious and diligent in their actions. They have been nothing but rational and respectful in everything they have done so far. You can see it in the writing of the article, it's methodical, logical, and rely strongly on facts through quoting documents. This have been consistent for years, something I give them a lot of credits for. Besides, no matter the political orientation of the govt, I think it's safe to say no group at the top was not worth of opposition during the last decades. So it's nice to have movements like La Quadrature that keep them in check.
- ElMocambo_x4 3y agoNo, their bias is grotesque. They make it sound like the DGSI bothered monitoring some dudes because they are using uBlock origins, lmfao. For the US guys here, the equivalent would be the FBI tracking down a few guys back from Afghanistan, monitoring who they talk to, see that they are curious about how to make bombs, how to encrypt your communications, etc, and write an article saying "oh look, the FBI thinkgs that buying sugar at the supermarket is suspicious", because among 1000 other evidence, the FBI at some point noted that "individual bought ingredients to a make a bomb and bought 25kg of sugar".
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoThat would be true if prosecution have shown evidences of criminal activities on the side of protecting their privacy. But they didn't. That's the red flag.
- littlestymaar 3y agoAnd now, the parliament is currently discussing a bill about forcing hardware manufacturers to include a remote switch in their products so that the mic and camera could be activated at distance by the authorities, so that the police can listen on potential terrorists[1]. This is fine… [1]: https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/justice/le-senat-donne-son-feu-vert-a-l-activation-a-distance-des-cameras-ou-micros-des-telephones_5875187.html#xtor=CS2-765-[autres]- https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/justice/le-senat-donne-s...
- fransje26 3y agoIncredible that they are dumb enough to believe that this can be enforced. We live in the EU, with free movement of goods and people, meaning that we can easily order our next electronic device from any other EU country that will not enforce this nonsense. Of course, the next step will be you are shopping abroad == you are suspiciously close to being a terrorist. On the other hand, I can see enough countries willing to support such a requirement, forcing an enforcement on a larger scale.
- littlestymaar 3y agoMoreover, I wonder how they can even force the manufacturers into making a custom solution for their hubris. Unless the idea of adding such a remote switch seduces Xi and now there's a big enough market for this feature to be developed…
- orlondow 3y agoThe law does not force manufacturers to do anything, this is just pure fabrication from OP.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- TheLoafOfBread 3y agoTerrorists are saying thank you as they are gluing their mics and putting electric tape on their cameras.
- lannisterstark 3y ago[flagged]
- bestouff 3y agoThis is an offensive comment.
- lannisterstark 3y ago[flagged]
- Woshiwuja 3y ago[flagged]
- hkt 3y agoIt is worth remembering that France got its current constitution in a bloodless coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1958_crisis_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1958_crisis_in_France It amazes me that the constitution that was put in place then is largely unchanged today, insofar as the French president is still incredibly powerful, parliament is subservient, and the electoral system is deeply majoritarian. I don't know exactly what it says about a society that it keeps a constitution that was imposed this way, but it isn't anything good. The frank craziness in this article (F-Droid, lol) is in keeping with that.
- lucasRW 3y agoThe president who set up this constitution is the only president who stepped down on his own after losing a vote at the Senate. I think you are a bit weak on the intricacies of the French political system/history, not even mentioning the fact that if you want to play that game, pretty much any political system was never self-generated and was by definition kickstarted by another system previously...
- boricj 3y agoAs a French, we tend to change political regimes every so often. Since 1789 we've had five republics, two empires and a couple of other things. I would bet that I'll outlive the fifth republic because of that. If anything, keeping the same constitution for more than 230 years is a horrifying thought to me.
- wott 3y agoNo, the President in France has little power. 1. He can call for new elections of the Assembly (not of the Senate) ; 2. He names the Prime Minister and chooses to accept or not the government the Prime Minister then proposes ; 3. He's got minor powers regarding foreign policy. And that's it. Now what goes against the President: a. Regarding [2.] which may seem a major power: the Prime Minister and his government can be kicked out basically at any moment by a vote of the Assembly. So there is no way the President could pick a Prime Minister and a government that doesn't suit the Assembly. Basically, the Assembly has the last word on it, and keeps this power all along the legislature. b. The government decides and leads the policy (politics?) of the nation (article 20: «Le Gouvernement détermine et conduit la politique de la nation.»): the President is not supposed to have a say about it. c. Once the President has named the Prime Minister, he cannot remove him. Nor can he remove any other minister. Only the Assembly can do it. The problem is not the constitution. The problem is that the constitution hasn't got a sacred role as in the USA, and everyone in the various positions of power wipes his ass with it. So, all what gradually happened more and more in the last few years, is Members of the Parliament voluntarily de facto abdicating their powers to the Government, and members of the Government voluntarily de facto abdicating their powers to the President. In the end they mostly take orders from above and act and vote as they are told to. Just because they enjoy their seat...
- mbgerring 3y agoI mean, isn’t everybody?
- TheLoafOfBread 3y agoWhen half of internet users are potential terrorists, no one is.
- dathos 3y agoOr, in the eyes of the government, we all are
- mewmew07 3y agoThis is accurate, I just came from our local monthly terrorist meet-up and everyone was talking about how France is so unfriendly to us.
- HeartStrings 3y agouBlock especially
- franky47 3y agoIn the mean time, the French government is also sending out a call for projects [1] that increase cybersecurity, digital sovereignty and promote encryption of data. Just not for the common folk, but for startups. I find it funny (/s) that my current project is funded by the French government to develop end-to-end encryption in web applications [2]. Am I a terrorist too? [1] https://www.bpifrance.fr/nos-appels-a-projets-concours/appel-a-projets-developpement-de-technologies-innovantes-critiques https://www.bpifrance.fr/nos-appels-a-projets-concours/appel... [2] https://github.com/SocialGouv/e2esdk/ https://github.com/SocialGouv/e2esdk/
- maitredusoi 3y ago[dead]
- ur-whale 3y ago> Am I a terrorist too? Not yet, but give it time.
- INTPenis 3y agoNot you but your users might be.
- chopin 3y agoIt's a good way to make everybody suspicious.
- myk9001 3y agoOK, I can see where they're coming from with things like Signal. Not that I agree, but at least I can understand the reasoning behind it. But what is uBlock Origin's sin? A law-abiding citizen is supposed to be OK with seeing ads, or something? Can someone who reads French please elaborate on what the linked piece is saying about it?
- nmc 3y agoThe investigation partly relies on notes seized from the defendants which mention various privacy tools: GrapheneOS, LineageOS, Signal, Silence, Jitsi, OnionShare, F-Droid, Tor, RiseupVPN, Orbot, uBlock Origin… According to investigators: "these elements confirm they were willing to live clandestinely". According to the prosecution: "these notes consituted a real playbook allowing anonymous use of a phone, showing the person was willing to live in secrecy and hide their activities".
- rekoil 3y ago> showing the person was willing to live in secrecy and hide their activities Wait, is it illegal to *checks notes* have personal privacy?
- escape-big-tech 3y agoabsolutely disgusting, you're telling me that you don't want to be stalked 24/7? that you don't want the whole world to know everything you're doing? how dare you imply that you're a human being and that privacy is one of the most important rights you have? now dance monkey, dance /s to quote professor farnsworth: I don't want to live on this planet anymore
- denton-scratch 3y agoPerhaps it's that mistrusting FAANG (advertisers and snoopers) is one of their grounds for suspicion.
- ElMocambo_x4 3y ago[flagged]
- antoniojtorres 3y agoWhat are you talking about? When has “the left” been in favor of eroding the access to, or quality of private and secure communication in a comparable context?
- ElMocambo_x4 3y agoWhen it calls for their equivalent groups on the right ("Generation Identitaire") to be banned ? When it attacks hotels where Zemmour is having a book-signing event ?
- junon 3y agoI'm pretty center compared to many of my left friends, but I've anecdotally never heard nor seen anyone say "they shouldn't have privacy because they're far right" or anything close to that sentiment.
- orwin 3y agoFor context: dissolution of far-right groups in France under center-left government, or generally before Macron were rare since the 90s. The reasons : - trying to kill the president (under a right-wing president, when right-wing didn't actually meant authoritarian), - actually killing someone, - terrorism (found bombs and shit). Dissolution of right wing groups under macron: - massacring gays around the pride parade (OK, that one is deserved), - fighting, - training, - pretending/performative art (it was quite funny actually, I don't think it was on purpose but we laughed a lot) ---- Now, the reality about the 'left up in arms' having no problem with authoritarian government and calling the police: A left-wing media was dissolved in Nantes for giving informations about when the next protestation will happen (basically). Also they explained how to transform a fire extinguisher into a paint bomb, which isn't nice, but I mean, they weren't militia at all. 'funny to see the left up in arms'... Left-wing people in France called out macron authoritarian drift way before regular conservatives, way before that I think the facts are a bit against you. Your idea seems pleasant at first glance, but fail to meet reality. I thought it was a new trend, but I read a bit recently about political theory, and one fascinating things was that some political ideologies are declined from example and experience, from material conditions, and from that is drafted an ideal. Other are declined from an idea, then try to explain why the reality doesn't work like that (it's often because of the francs-maçons or the jew, but sometimes it's internal traitors). I will let the reader guess which ideology is which.
- shlip 3y agoWhat is really appaling and frightening here is the level of ignorance, incompetence and technical illiteracy shown by the various magistrates, and how they can be manipulated by the storytelling. Unfortunately, I think it's fair to say that it's representative of the general level of expertise in the french judicial system. Want some laughs ? Look for "Olivier Laurelli", "Altice vs reflet.info"...
- meindnoch 3y agoTechnically they're correct. The same way as users of toilets are potential terrorists.
- timellis-smith 3y agoI seem to remember I was on the FBI watch list for subscribing to Linux Journal back in the day.
- lewtds 3y agoAnd how did you find out about that?
- susanthenerd 3y agohttps://www.linuxjournal.com/content/nsa-linux-journal-extremist-forum-and-its-readers-get-flagged-extra-surveillance https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/nsa-linux-journal-extre...
- CyberDildonics 3y agoThat does not contain the words "FBI" or "watch"
- susanthenerd 3y ago[flagged]
- CyberDildonics 3y agoThis does not add any information. The article doesn't say anything about an FBI watch list, it says NSA flagged people for extra surveillance.
- niij 3y agoHi, I see you have a relatively new account and previously used reddit. Make sure to read the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names.
- beremaki 3y agoSituation in France will not end well. Both rule of law and liberal democracy are increasingly damaged. Our institutions are so weak that we are one election away from a complete disaster. Our constitution always concentrated a lot of power in the hand of the president but there is no effective counter-power left. The government set multiple precedent that violate freedom of assembly and association and parliamentary rights. I skipped a lot of authoritarian practice that happened and are still happening but the situation is egregiously bad I don't say that because I am a political opponent. I voted for this government in 2017, I am a founder, I am pro business. But also I am a father of two and I would rather raise my children in a democracy. I am seriously pessimistic about this situation. EU knows and complains about Poland & Hungary but France is going to be a shitshow of a far worse magnitude. We should NOT get a pass because Macron knows how to play the game
- FreelanceX 3y ago> EU knows and complains about Poland & Hungary but France is going to be a shitshow of a far worse magnitude. I am French too and this sounds greatly exaggerated. Either you don't really know about the situation in Hungary or you have a very twisted view of what's happening in France (maybe induced by the medias). You should take a step back.
- InCityDreams 3y agoGp made points, how do you see them as twisted and exaggerated?
- beremaki 3y agoWhat I say is that IF France becomes an illiberal democracy, it is going to be far worse for EU than what happened in Hungary. Hungary and France are absolutely not on the same scale
- piokoch 3y agoWait for the next election in Germany. AfD has just climbed to the 2nd place with 20% of support and is still growing. Believe or not, one day you will miss someone like Orban.
- RalfWausE 3y agoOh yeah i definitively am a POTENTIAL terrorist... and if the nations of the allegedly free world are keeping their trajectory regarding encryption and civil rights there might even come a day to turn form POTENTIAL to ACTUAL...
- ptsneves 3y ago[flagged]
- junon 3y agoWhat an incredible display of stereotyping, racism and sheer nonsense, even for HN.
- ptsneves 3y agoFair enough, care to reject the statements? It is a comment and opinion given in good faith. I am a citizen of a country mentioned there and live in another of the countries. I try to ground my thoughts on the Clash of Civilization[1] by Samuel Huntington an American political scientist that was in Yale and Harvard. I do not claim that theory is right, I can see it being considered racist stereotyped and non-sense but please do engage with the text instead of putting it in a box full of very negative adjectives. As your comment stands for such a high ground one-liner you offer no single counterpoint. Even the community HN gets flak for something it definitely does not avow. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations
- jug 3y agoThese guys are up to no good and intentionally misuse the loaded language. Because it's loaded. ----- terrorism noun the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. "the fight against terrorism"
- INTPenis 3y agoMost people want a simple answer to complex questions, the truth is that the French government is hundreds of people. Some sponsor e2ee projects to protect the people, while others consider use of such projects to be indicators of terrorism. Not the only indicators of course, but definitely something investigators might react to.
- hi5eyes 3y agoglad to know that every reddtor and gamer is a terrorist to the fr*nch
- paganel 3y agoLeaving aside the supposedly technical ineptitude of the French authorities (even though I think they're quite competent and that they full know what those apps do and how they work), cases like this one make me think that, going forward, one of the best strategies for "defeating" the powers that be will consist in avoiding the use of encrypted communications via special apps and the like and trying to blend in with how the general population, i.e. the normies, communicates. Of course that the message will still need to be encrypted in a way, but that won't happen by using Telegram or Signal or WhatsApp or by encrypting your hard-drive using dedicated software, but the new "encryption" should work in a sort of "out in the open for anyone to see way", like in the famous E. A. Poe The Purloined Letter [1] short-story, with the stolen letter that was "hidden" in plain view for everyone to see. Again, I realise that this new strategy isn't ideal, that it will most likely make it harder to keep constant the rate of encrypted communication that is now carried out using dedicated apps, but the reality on the ground is that by using Telegram or Signal or any other dedicated app that focuses on technical encryption one just manages to paint a target on his/her back. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purloined_Letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purloined_Letter
- divergencefree 3y agoI mean… the list of things is ridiculous: simply using VPN, having technical documentation? So any type of technical literacy…
- JimWestergren 3y agoRelated: The FBI now recommends using an ad blocker when searching the web https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/fbi-recommends-ad-blocker-online-scams-b1048998.html https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/fbi-recommends-ad-blocker-on...
- lloeki 3y agoThis article should be taken with care: La Quadrature Du Net is a stark defender of liberties (which is good, we need those more than ever), but I found they have a tendency to cherry-pick what aligns with their views to dramatic effect. I'm not saying there is no cause for concern - there usually is - but more often than not they have this tendency to overlook some elements and overblow some others to serve their narrative. My recommendation would be to carefully read the source material and cross-read other reports to form one's opinion.
- Qiu_Zhanxuan 3y agoThere is a big cause for concern; our secret service deems anybody using encryption tools as a quasi-terrorist.
- lloeki 3y agoI agree there is cause for concern, I just find the narrative style to be of disservice and detracts from the issue, as it appears to me that the use of a catastrophist, panic-inducing, anger-laden tone and structure is a mechanism to buy people into their view through fear instead of reason, which in turn drives the wrong response for addressing the issue. IOW the good part is that they're fact driven, the bad part is that they cherry-pick and use doomsday FUD-like tactics to drive their point home.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y agoLet the frogs boil alive then? There won't be The Day™ when the system goes authoritarian. It's a slope and one must panic at every step. If you wait for The Day, it will be too late.
- p0nce 3y agoFrench government seems to think you can avoid an far-right upheaval by becoming the far-right themselves.
- throfghtft56987 3y ago[flagged]
- tjpnz 3y agoThe US isn't immune either. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-prompt-commands-are-suspicious https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-prompt-...
- hakube 3y agoso using uBlock is much worse than being a politician?
- ggm 3y agoUsers of the telephone, the postal system are potentially terrorists. Users of speech in groups of two or more people are potentially conspirators. Simply to think is to be a potential terrorist.
- pfdietz 3y agoEveryone is a potential terrorist. Precriminals guilty of precrime.
- nologic01 3y agoThe constitute project [1] (which I just discovered and seems like a fantastic initiative) offers a way to compare what different countries' constitutions say about citizen's right to privacy. Apparently 174 countries have some provision that is in force. France does not appear at all on this topic. Not sure if its some technical / linguistic reason. [1] https://www.constituteproject.org/constitutions?lang=en&key=privacy&status=in_force https://www.constituteproject.org/constitutions?lang=en&key=...
- mensetmanusman 3y agoOnly terrorists block ads.
- znt 3y agoRegardless of which digital tools they use, everyone is a potential terrorist if the government is tyrannical enough.
- dorianmariefr 3y agolol I use uBlock Origin
- dang 3y agoUrl changed from https://www.laquadrature.net/2023/06/05/affaire-du-8-decembre-le-chiffrement-des-communications-assimile-a-un-comportement-terroriste/ https://www.laquadrature.net/2023/06/05/affaire-du-8-decembr..., which points to this.
- ilyt 3y agoFrench government needs to be re-acquainted with guillotine
- dang 3y agoWe changed the URL from https://www.laquadrature.net/2023/06/05/affaire-du-8-decembre-le-chiffrement-des-communications-assimile-a-un-comportement-terroriste/ https://www.laquadrature.net/2023/06/05/affaire-du-8-decembr... to the translation, which was suggested by a reader. Thanks!