27 ms·

The electric vehicles we need now are e-bikes (2022)

• poulpy123 4y ago
  We should start by massively decrease the size and the weight of cars to 1/3 of what they are now. No need to new civil infrastructure, ne need for new techniques, no need for new factories. It's really easy and quick to do
  • NotYourLawyer 4y ago
    Am I so out of touch? No, it’s the car buyers who are wrong.
    • hnav 4y ago
      they're right though: cars are unnecessarily massive. Every technological step forward like high strength steel, digital communication bus instead of massive wiring harnesses, alu-alloys and composites is pissed away by making larger and larger urban assault crossovers. In the SF bay I always see two 150lb humans in a 4000lb Toyota RAV4 because "they're outdoors people and might need to go to Tahoe in the winter"
      • NotYourLawyer 4y ago
        Who decides what’s necessary? The people buying the cars. This is America.
        • panick21_ 4y ago
          No actually its not that simple. You should inform yourself. Because of car lobbying, the US has adopted pretty much every possible way to accommodate larger cars. The idea that it is all free choice is nonsense. An important one being, that 'light trucks' were excluded from fuel standards. The US alone has refused to consider pedestrian safety in safety assessment. This allows car markers to have profit from those vehicles while they don't make profit from smaller vehicles. This alone is a huge intensive for car makers to sell as many of these vehicles as possible. We can go threw the list of all the other things, under-priced huge highways, lane width, car parking minimum (number and size), free city parking, import tariffs, legal definitions for pedestrian safety and so on. Like seriously there are so many government forced factor that makes it more likely people will pick up bigger cars. The big cars are only possible in the first place because road regulation from 60/70 forced everybody to build way larger roads. Compare a subburb from the 60s with one from the 80s. Only once the government had changed and rebuilt the whole of the US road network did larger vehicle become more common. And these vehicle literally don't make sense. Its cultural. The pickups popular in the US now are not actually sensible by any measure that is done. Real trades people still prefer vans and older smaller pickups. The idea that this is some 'free market' is complete nonsense. If people actually had to pay for all these absurdly sized road and all this other stuff, they wouldn't want it. But I guess "This is America" is correct, where car companies and high building companies dictate government transportation policy despite tons of evidence its horrible.
          • NotYourLawyer 4y ago
            This is an awful lot of words to say https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/stop-liking-what-i-dont-like https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/stop-liking-what-i-dont-like
            • deleted 4y ago
              [deleted]
            • panick21_ 4y ago
              The kind of defense one makes when one does not have a real counter argument.
        • HDThoreaun 4y ago
          The government needs to step in to solve externalities. If you want to drive a massive car that harms everyone around you you should be forced to pay society for the harm that causes.
          • NotYourLawyer 4y ago
            It harms everyone around you? Please.
            • HDThoreaun 4y ago
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
              • NotYourLawyer 4y ago
                TLDW
            • panick21_ 4y ago
              - Increase road ware. - Massively increase chance of killing children. Car literally engineered with blind spots where driver can't see what's in front of them. This is gross negligent. - Massively increase chance of killing a pedestrian in an accident. - Massive increase in chance of killing the person in the other car in case of accident. - Massive size makes accident more like, specially with bicycles. - Higher fuel consumption more pollution As a society we typical try to restrict or make thing illegal that hugely increase the chance of killing people. In the US chocolate eggs are illegal because of the children, but driving a gigantic death truck where you can't see a child that is standing right in front of the car is totally normal. How is that not fucking insane? These high front pickups are proven to kill more children, its not up for debate. The are proven to be more dangerous for pedestrians. Non of this is up for debate.
    • poulpy123 4y ago
      I don't understand you point. I'm saying that massively decreasing the weight of car is a good and easy way to quickly decrease the CO2 emission of car transportation. The fact that buyers prefer big cars is not a factor here
      • NotYourLawyer 4y ago
        Of course it’s a factor. Why wouldn’t it be? The whole attitude here is wrong. “We know better than you do what’s best for you.” Paternalism pls go.
• lucsky 4y ago
  > Why won’t federal officials promote them? Please tell me that's a rhetorical question... It's not? Ok let me lay it out for you then: the majority of the US government is made of corrupt assholes paid by the oil industry (and, you know, that other lobby, but that's not the subject) to precisely stifle that kind of initiative. You guys can't have nice things, and won't ever have nice things until you vote all those clowns out.
  • barbazoo 4y ago
    Wow, according to OpenSecrets [0], I don't know if that's legit or not, the parma lobby spends 2x compared to oil/gas. Also those numbers are just nuts, $4bn/year in total. [0] https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/ranked-sectors https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/ranked-sectors
• hkt 4y ago
  Amen. I take my kid to school, do the shopping, sometimes do a bit of leisure cycling. It rocks. My son is growing out of his seat now, so my next purchase is going to be this bad boy in ebike form: https://dutchbike.co.uk/Work4.htm https://dutchbike.co.uk/Work4.htm
• danielovichdk 4y ago
  In Copenhagen there are so many bicycles. Christiana bikes, omnium package bikes, Long John's, bikes with batteries and top notch carbon and titanium bikes. Biggest issues here is the ebikes are a safety issue. People that are not used to ride 25-30kmh are a hazard to the rest. Yes to standards. I am riding a campagnolo eps super record V.2 and the wiring just broke. Not a chance to get something else. Sigh. Go ride your bike with pan aqua legs
• somesortofsystm 4y ago
  I realise this is a different class of bike, vis a vis e-bike vs. e-motorbike, but just by way of experience I've been an avid rider of electric mopeds (Vespa, UNU) and now an electric motorbike (Bonfire X) in a European city where such devices really are the best ways to get around, given the appropriate weather conditions. These are kind of 'traditional' moped and motorbike (scrambler) form-factor machines, but fully electric. The Bonfire X has a nice regeneration factor, so it really whines like tron if you get it lined up on the right PID slope. The riding/getting around town experience is delightfully quiet, not necessarily super-charged (although it could be), but also nevertheless non-polluting - in the city/sphere of use - and I can only say I hope these kinds of bikes really are just the beginning of what can be done to truly make an efficient transportation system based around electric power. Wind, hydro and solar are perfectly cromulant ways to charge ones batteries, and get around. If only we could get the component manufacture and assembly done in a way that was ecologically better than the petro-system, alas .. there is work to be done on this but I am sure I will personally within the year, wire up my electric transportation devices to a solar system, and go pretty much off-grid for charging for a few months, at least .. I will attempt to get 100k'ms worth of free ride out of the sunshine, over the next year. If the e-bike / e-motorbike markets begin to coalesce, I can only imagine we will see extremely efficient machines on the horizon .. or in the mirror (in my case), hehe ..
• lifeisstillgood 4y ago
  FFS - it's not about the vehicle it's about the infrastructure. Roads are designed for and built for cars and so are the infrastructure around roads - from shops to cinemas. We spend trillions on car infrastructure and something around five bucks a year on painting lines for cycles. Don't make me laugh that suddenly e-bikes appear and they will get 20/30 % of the infrastructure spend cars do. The charging stations, the repair garages, the insurance industry come on. We are talking about re-engineering our cities totally - it's a huge spend.
  • standardUser 4y ago
    This is very true and frankly, if a city is going to make that kind of radical infrastructure investment, focusing primarily on bicycles is an odd choice since a significant portion of any urban population simply cannot ride a bike.
    • hnav 4y ago
      right, the transition has to span generations and in that time ebikes, escoots, wheelchairs and mobility scooters will probably converge on 20mph personal transport that can fit into public transport for longer hops
    • adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
      Focusing on bikes makes sense because even if you only get 10% of people out of cars, that can easily be 50% less traffic. Obviously a wide variety of approaches are needed, but bikes are often the fastest transit between two points, are cheap (both to own and to build infrastructure for), and are a form of exercise so have a public health benefit.
    • fnimick 4y ago
      > a significant portion of any urban population simply cannot ride a bike How so? People who are physically unable to are a vanishingly small number - maybe single-digit percentages.
    • outworlder 4y ago
      > focusing primarily on bicycles is an odd choice since a significant portion of any urban population simply cannot ride a bike. That's not true. Sure, in some areas the population is very unfit. But that's a problem that bikes can help with. If you look at areas that are very bike friendly, most of the population will bike. Even the elderly.
• 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  Bike riders forget that a large percentage of the population can't safely operate a bicycle in all weather conditions. We still need vehicles people can sit inside of, that can carry things, in the rain, sleet, snow. We need more micromobility options of all shapes and sizes. And we need places to put them and ride them; not just protected bike lanes, but bike and scooter racks, public chargers. It would be much cheaper to start factories in the US to provide micromobility solutions, as compared to electric car and battery factories. We could actually create more jobs, as well as better solutions for people in cities. The results would cost less and enable more transportation. But large corporations essentially own the government. There is an entire ecosystem of products and services surrounding cars, and they generate a tremendous amount of wealth that feeds the political machine. Low-cost small-scale electric transportation doesn't make anywhere close to as much money, so it's no wonder it's not promoted.
  • Dylan16807 4y ago
    > Bike riders forget that a large percentage of the population can't safely operate a bicycle in all weather conditions. 1. What percentage? 2. I feel like we don't need to worry about that until bike use is on track to well over 50%.
    • 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
      You don't want to worry about people who can't ride bikes until more people ride bikes? Not everyone can walk, for one thing. What percentage? I dunno. Should we ask the ADA to stop pestering us about those damn people who keep complaining about not being able to go up stairs? There's a lot of overweight people in this country. Over 40% are obese. Should we just not give a shit if they can get around? Again, it seems that, unfortunately, the government actually does care, a bit. There's the elderly. Your grandma may be racing around town in her 90s, but my grandma cannot use a bike. And there's families / single mothers who don't have child care and can't go run errands without bringing their kids with them. There are bike-things that sort of work for bringing kids on bikes, but many find it dangerous, they're expensive, bulky, and just not convenient when you need to also bring home groceries. These are real people with real problems that should be considered when we're building the future of cities.
• AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  These articles should have been appearing about three years ago. The beauty of the EV is that most of the cost is in an inherently scalable component: the battery. Battery makers are (currently) aligned to known form factors, and those cell form factors are pretty flexible: scooter, ebike, moped, motorcycle, side-by-side / cart, all can basically use the same cylindrical cells. ICEs? You had a drivetrain that was specific to the platform, and that was where the cost was. EVs? You can tear out the cells from a crashed tesla and repackage them in ebikes, or grid storage, or home powerwalls. The level of flexiblity and reuse is so much higher than an ICE. Heck it can be in power banks, power tools, lawnmowers, etc. So while the headline is the ebike, really it's the e-whatever-vehicle.
• ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Are we only allowed one type of electric vehicle at a time? Wow that's awkward, but my list would probably be: Wheelchairs, then busses, then taxis, then bikes, then trikes, then boats, then cars, then planes, then unicycles, then drones, then skateboards. Might be simpler to just do them in parallel though instead of pitting the wheelchair users and the model plane enthusiasts against each other for no obvious reason.
• Giorgi 4y ago
  Yeah no, I am not putting my kid on e-bike, or any bike for that matter.
  • AlphaCerium 4y ago
    Care to give a reason as to why?
• prometheus76 4y ago
  I live in a place where it snowed four inches last night. I live 10 miles away from my workplace. You can keep your bike.
• stephc_int13 4y ago
  I use my e-bike as a vehicle and it is a pleasure. The only annoying part is all the cars.
• chung8123 4y ago
  I am pretty sure we already have e-bikes. There are many different reasons people don't use them though. Safety and theft would be my two, which I don't know if statistically are issues but my mind says riding an ebike at 10+ mph and having an accident will be an issue and that accident will be more likely since it will be ridden on the road with cars that cannot see well in the rain. And theft seems to be an issue in my area at least from the biking experience my friends have had. They cannot go anywhere without being a target of bike theft.
• locallost 4y ago
  The article asks: "... could be replacing car trips and saving fuel. Why won’t federal officials promote them?" Here is my very strongly held opinion. 1) partially it's actually incompetence. Policies are formed and negotiated by politicians, but they don't really always know. There is too much "common sense" that people take for granted that is incorrect. For instance Mitt Romney recently came out with a statement that bike lanes increase congestion because they take away car space. This type of supreme confidence is what gets politicians elected, but they still have no clue what they're talking about. But it's a very salt of the earth type common sense approach that has some traces of logic in it. However, we know from data this is not true, and once you realize cars are an extremely inefficient use of space, then the views on what is logical start to change. But you need to come to this realization first. 2) we can't completely eliminate malice. There's a lot of money in transport/transit and incumbents are not keen on letting go of that cash cow. For instance, one of the ruling parties in Germany, FDP, is obviously in bed with the car makers which is causing them to promote policies at best contradictory (letting the market sort it out, but also guaranteed stable fuel prices and tax breaks so the high income earners don't get crushed on their commute prices) and at worst ludicrous (subsidies for e-fuels that are not really produced yet). The way I see it, we should reframe the discussion based on sharing the pie fairly. Again Germany as an example, there was a discussion pre-election about subsidies on cargo bikes. Of course the conservatives dismissed it as a vegan hipster solution, but the actual question is: who cares? If tax money is used for thousands of euros in subsidies for electric cars, why shouldn't a fraction of that money be used on bikes? So there should not be a 10k subsidy or whatever for electric cars and s 1k subsidy on bikes. Instead there should be a fixed per person budget for everyone to do whatever they personally want, and if that's a bike then that's their choice.
• grzes 4y ago
  i think there should be bike-highways connecting larger cities in given country so you could travel larger distances using smooth tarmac like cars do
  • alamortsubite 4y ago
    Yes, there should be cycle highways. A few countries, like Belgium [1], Denmark [2], and Netherlands [3], already have them. 1 https://fietssnelwegen.be/en/bicycle-highways https://fietssnelwegen.be/en/bicycle-highways 2 http://supercykelstier.dk/english/ http://supercykelstier.dk/english/ 3 https://www.hollandcyclingroutes.com/long-distance-cycle-routes https://www.hollandcyclingroutes.com/long-distance-cycle-rou...
• theodric 4y ago
  Yeah let me just hitch up the trailer to my e-bike and ride 25km over mountains to the nearest supermarket and then ride back with it all in tow. These city people are so oblivious to reality...
• forgetbook 4y ago
  https://endless-sphere.com https://endless-sphere.com I got really into ebikes in 2018 and built one that replaced my car for all in-town commuting for the next 3 years. It was a really significant investment for me at the time, and this forum was really helpful.
• testfoobar 4y ago
  E-Bikes and cars on the same road present new type of risks. (USA, right side drive story follows). On three occasions in the past few months, I've driven my car past a bicyclist riding safely in the bike lane - no issue. I arrive at an intersection with a Stop sign - check to see if the intersection is clear - and then initiate a right turn. As I'm turning, the e-bicyclist has sped up beyond usual expectations and a) tried to make the same right turn before me or b) tried to speed through the intersection in front of me. In both cases, I've had to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting the e-bicyclist. In every case, it is because e-bikes are much faster at accelerating and get to a higher top-speed than human powered bikes. Bikes have no special right-of-way privileges. Nevertheless these three e-bikers have blasted right in front of my turning car - forcing me to stop.
• bborud 4y ago
  I've had a few e-bikes over the past 5-6 years. My first two e-bikes were cheap, somewhat compact bikes with Bafang motors, smallish wheels and cadence sensors. You can get from A to B in the summer, but they are useless in the winter. Cheap bikes with cheap motors suck. About 10 months ago I bought a much better e-bike (KTM Machina 692) with a relatively powerful CX line Bosch motor that uses a torque sensor, 29" wheels and has proper mudguards. It was expensive, but since it is a much more capable bike, I've used it a lot more. If I had kids or needed to transport stuff I'd probably get a second bike. But I mostly use my bike to ride to work, run errands or work out by driving it in the mountainous terrain where I live. It is more fun to work out with an e-bike because you can choose how much you want to exert yourself. You'll be able to go further, steeper and for longer. I have ridden it to work every day except _two_ days in those 10 months. Just as it started snowing last year I got studded tyres for it so I could keep riding it all winter. In temperatures down to about -20C, in periods where we had 1m (3 feet) of snow in a day, in rain, in stormy weather. The ride to work is about 8km (5mi) and I have to climb 2 steep hills on the way to work of approximately 300m / 900ft and one steep hill on my way home. I've used only 3 tanks of gas in those 10 months. In fact, a side-effect of driving a lot less is that I have to keep an eye on the battery on my car and charge it so it won't run down on its own. Also, I have had some problems with rust build-up on the breaks so about once per week I have to take the car out and brake hard 8-10 times to clean the brakes. I'd estimate that in fuel costs alone the bike will have paid for itself in about 2-3 years. This takes me a bit more than 20 minutes each way, which means I get a 40 minute workout "for free" every day since I tend to adjust the motor assist to the lowest setting practical. This has noticeable effects. After just a few months you'll be in better shape. All in all I think I ride the bike for about an hour every day. My bike has a decent size battery so despite having to climb quite a bit, in the summer I can go to/from work 3 times on one charge. In the winter, due to low temperatures, I can probably get to work and back twice. Charging is not a big issue. I do it at home, and if I really needed to I'd get a second charger and bring the battery into the office to charge it. Get used to riding in bad weather. In fact, make a point of riding when the weather is bad and adapt. A bit of rain, snow or wind isn't going to kill you. When riding a bike, it helps to dress like you would for physical exertion. Use something like a pure merino wool as the inner layer and clothing that allows for ventilation when you need it. This is particularly important during the cold months since you do not want to get sweaty and wet. Bring a change of clothes for wearing in the office. If you have a shower at work, you can go a bit harder. Plan your route. Find more efficient and safer routes. I've ridden with people who insist on their "rights" and will take the same roads they would with a car. Be sensible and figure out routes that keeps you as separate as possible from drivers and pedestrians if you can. I've ridden bikes in a few (European) cities, and it has always been possible to pick routes that have low potential for conflict. Don't be one of those dickish riders who thinks everyone else owes you something in traffic. They don't. Behave. Aim for conflict avoidance. Get to know the area and find the low conflict routes. If you live in a city it is usually faster and more hassle free to ride an e-bike. You can take more shortcuts and usually parking is pretty fast and easy. However, depending on where you are, bike theft might be an issue. I've had _zero_ accidents even though I've ridden all winter in all kinds of weather straight across the city I live in. Sometimes in snowy conditions. Often on shiny ice. Be patient with pedestrians and take your time at tricky intersections with bad visibility or unclear traffic patterns. And again, look for alternative routes where you can minimize interactions with others in traffic. I'm not fanatical about riding an e-bike and I don't view car drivers as the enemy. They are not. I'm a driver myself - albeit less often. The militant, conflict seeking, virtue signalling dickheads are a problem. They ruin it for everyone else. Don't be that dickhead. And please, nobody is interested in your belief that the bicycle will save the world. Just try to be content with the fact that you have found a mode of transportation that works for you. Others will figure this out eventually.
• rldjbpin 4y ago
  even in ideal conditions, i still don't think the safety aspects (while riding it or parking it) are addressed to a point where you can justify investing thousand(s) dollars in a good one, at least for me. a rental service seems to address a lot of this, at least in (big) cities. but then we see what is happening with rental scooters in paris.
• JohnFen 4y ago
  I guess they're better than cars. But as a bicyclist, I've come to really, really hate e-bikes on bikes paths. The people driving them tend to be incredibly reckless, don't follow to rules of riding, and so forth. In other words, they're bringing all of the bad aspects of driving onto the bike paths. They're dangerous. I've had several near accidents with them even though they are a small minority of the users of the paths.
• ciconia 4y ago
  https://archive.ph/TkGS4 https://archive.ph/TkGS4
• maushu 4y ago
  I have a electric scooter that I use for shopping. It's pretty nice if you just want to buy enough to fill a big bag. It is definitely more expensive (if you want something decent) than a e-bike but it occupies less space in the house.
  • thorncorona 4y ago
    One other thing to note though is you're more likely to get injured on an electric scooter vs a bike, because it's much harder to control braking in the event of an emergency.
  • Gigachad 4y ago
    Personally I use a combination of online delivery and going to the supermarket in person. When I need some stuff right now, I visit the store. When I’m bulk buying long life stuff, especially large and heavy things, delivery makes more sense and in my area costs only $2.
• ftxbro 4y ago
  [flagged]
  • jacob171714 4y ago
    you'll eat bugs and you'll like it
    • WithinReason 4y ago
      You will if you ride the ebike fast enough through a forest
• bowmessage 4y ago
  Article from March 2022
  • readonthegoapp 4y ago
    good catch. wish there was an easy way to weed these out.
    • saagarjha 4y ago
      Perhaps not but I put the year in the title.
• hinata08 4y ago
  I couldn't agree more. I bought a used ebike in January to test. And it's fantastic ! I can easily get my PC, locks, food for the day, and whatever I want over the hills to go to work (I once went to the hardware shop at noon from the office, and cycled back home with my new electric tools) I also take over cars when there is traffic, so I take about the same time to go to work everyday. I like that the motor of the ebike stops gradually around 25km/h. So I can just provide the power I want, and the motor will then do its share to reach about 25. Which means I can still either train or not do anything. I no longer bear to drive my car in traffic to go to work. When I tried to do that with a manual bike, I couldn't do it everyday, I had to watch the weight, and I could hardly go to training in the evening. But the ebike can be a daily ride without any problem.
  • Giorgi 4y ago
    Interesting. What do you do when it's 50C hot outside or freezing winter with a snow?
    • f1yght 4y ago
      Wear the right clothes. I on and off bike to the gym and if you wear the right things the weather isn't a problem.
      • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
        I haven't done this but it might be worth looking at what mountain bike riders wear in the winter, assuming they don't stop riding. They're likely wearing things which climbers (in the winter) and skiers would wear.
        • sleepybrett 4y ago
          ... or just people in finland who ride bikes all year round. Sure it can suck to ride your bike on a cold wet day like we get in Seattle, but the right gear can help a lot... and I'm not sure anyone is saying, "If you buy a bike you MUST sell your car and do everything on the bike". I'm taking the bike as a challenge to myself, trying to do all I can on it. But if one day I'm just not up for it or it's just pouring, or the load is to big or too far. That's what car share is for. If everyone did similar we'd have a lot more pleasant cities.
• ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Ebikes outselll electric cars, motorbikes, vans, busses and trucks combined. I got one recently and it has been a real eye opener. My 'normal' cycling pace is 10 miles an hour, this is usually not enough to keep up with traffic. Slowest speed limit is 20, everyone is overtaking you dangerously. I can only reach that speed briefly, before I start sweating and panting. If you are going uphill, wel... So unless you are really fit, driving in traffic is a challenge In UK legal limit for ebikes is 16 miles per hour, I wish it was 20, but on most roads that works and much fewer cars are overtaking you. This makes much safe experience, and gives confidence. It is so efficient, charging it is basically free. It is so effortless, that using it in a big city is better than a car or public transport - you can go anywhere and dont need to think about parking. All they need is some space and sensible laws. We could literally solve 1/3 of the problem 'for free'. Also most people dont know how to kit out a bike to carry stuff - you dont need a trailer or a cargo bike. I can fit 125 liters of good on my bike. 40 in the rear basket, 50 in rear panniers, 35 in the front panniers. The smaller supermarket trolly is usually 70 liters, the big one is 150. You can also get a few straps and put really big items into the basket. It have transported large post boxes, chairs, vacuum cleaners, desktop computers, etc. And there is a youtube video of a guy carrying a full-sized fridge on a bike, but that's a bit extreme.
  • smileysteve 4y ago
    > you can go anywhere and dont need to think about parking. I was visiting new Orleans recently, and they had signs on rod iron fences "no bike parking" as you ride into the French Quarter. Car street parking on both sides, lots of traffic and potholes, I saw one single loop bike "rack" in a mile. The city also has its own bike share, but its rules include parking in designated spots - would you believe very few in top pedestrian and tourist areas? I see this in Atlanta too. The scooters and lime bikes ran into this problem.. people complain of car traffic and bikes and scooters parked on sidewalks, cities even invest in a less profitable bike share program and a few racks - or temporary bike lanes, but they to have a car parking spot rather than parking for a dozen bikes in the same footprint for some reason. It's a ux and public policy failure / money drain.
    • 4y ago
• gigel82 4y ago
  To commute to work, I can take a highway or I can take a series of backroads 4x the distance, with maybe 20% having bike lanes. It would be very dangerous to attempt to bike either route. I'm driving a Leaf EV but would consider a smaller (2-seater / 1-seater) electric vehicle if they were sold and road legal in the US.
• 112233 4y ago
  Are there any of those electric unicycles/monowheels, but with a battery that is not prone to incinerating everything in it's radius? Either LiFePO4, or a removable pack, or something similar. I'm often considering them because of distance, size and weight, comfort of a large diameter wheel and apparent safety (when driven at safe speed). But the thermal runaway failure mode is so scary that i dont even. A nice video of battery pack failure: https://youtu.be/8h41p13e4TU?t=608 https://youtu.be/8h41p13e4TU?t=608
  • mtrimpe 4y ago
    I agree that I'd like to see more LiFePO4 battery packs; but compared to an EV I'd much rather have this happen on an e-bike/monowheel I can just step off.
    • 112233 4y ago
      Agreed, I was more thinking about it happening in the apartment. I do not see me surviving such event, unleast the battery is being charged on the balcony (but even then). LiFePO4 failure, while not a picnic, at least can be proofed against. Of course, it is the same with scooters and bikes, but there are a lot of bikes (and almost no scooters) with removable packs, so yeah. But compared to the unicycle, bike takes up half of a small apartment.
• teknover 4y ago
  It’s a pity that the leading eBike brands like Van Moof and Cowboy are not available in Australia. I believe part of the reason for the delay & resulting country exclusivity is due to needing a repair presence to support the bikes. Speaking to an independent senior bike repairer, they told me that they’re unlikely to fix eBikes as they can be more complicated & once they touch a bike to repair the onus is on them to bring it to restore to a repaired state (ie if you pay for a repair and it’s not repaired then the fault will lay with them until corrected). So unlike traditional bikes that largely are free & operate mechanically similarly, you’re more likely going to see a more electronic car-style repair model (eg where only Tesla are repairing Tesla cars) and a push to consolidation where the 3rd party bike manufacturers or parts (eg Bafang motors or no-name) will lose out to those who have a physical store & large network (Trek, Giant, etc). I’d love someone’s opinion on this to validate or challenge the thinking here — as for now, it seems I’ll wait forever and never to get a Van Moof or Cowboy & importing seems a dead end since it wouldn’t be repairable by any local repairer.
  • somesortofsystm 4y ago
    Australians can build their own bicycles?
  • Schroedingersat 4y ago
    Sounds like a great reason to be happy that the leading brands aren't in Australia. Get a Bafang or a Tongsheng and be happy.
    • tchvil 4y ago
      I was about to say get a Bafang too. Put it on a normal, better old, bike. They are indestructible. And all other parts are standard and cheap. You need some bike mechanics skills, and a little understanding in connecting electric components. But all is well documented on the web.
      • somesortofsystm 4y ago
        Standardization is key to this, I think. Any device that cracks the 'fits all bicycles' electrification nut, is going to grow. Same goes for some startup that comes up with a way to convert existing petro-cars into electro-cars, i.e. hub motors, super-capacity, etc. It makes all the sense in the world to me that electric revolution/evolution is happening in the e-bicycle (and to some extent e-motorbike) classes of transportation. Bicycles, generally, are an area where we have always seen how important it is to have standards...
• lapama 4y ago
  I bought an electric bike online... engine failures... wheel sending and returning fir repairs... 4 months... ended up pedalling the 15 daily km. Totally doable! Just needed time to adjust.
• v7n 4y ago
  I'd love to see recumbent e-trikes with lights, turn signals, and sufficient composite cover to be a viable commute option regardless of rain or freezing temperature. With assisted pedalling it should be possible to maintain comfortable temperature for a good while if the insulation is done right.
  • joshuahaglund 4y ago
    Any trike can be elctrified and winter fairings are available. Go for it! https://www.utahtrikes.com/PROD-11615952.html https://www.utahtrikes.com/PROD-11615952.html
  • timbit42 4y ago
    The BetterBikes PEBL can be used in the winter.
    • v7n 4y ago
      The form factor of the PEBL looks about right, but with the $10k price tag it's not there quite yet.
      • timbit42 4y ago
        Some people also use the Organic Transit ELF in winter but it's not designed for it.
  • mkl 4y ago
    So too wide for bike lanes and cycleways, but too low and slow to share lanes with cars, and with impaired visibility from the cover? Sounds really dangerous. The thing that makes my e-bike safe in traffic is that I'm high up to see and be seen, and I can avoid being in traffic most of the time thanks to bike lanes and cycleways.
    • v7n 4y ago
      The space required to safely operate a bicycle is not equal to the width of the vehicle in the first place. The article, in its second paragraph already mentions cargo bikes which often have the tri-wheel configuration.
• 2rsf 4y ago
  In Sweden you can get government support when buying E-Bikes, 25% of up to 1000 euro. Some smaller electric scooters falls under the same category. E-Bikes are still rather expensive though. But, and there are buts, E-Bikes are heavy so you can't bring them up home, on the other hand they are more prone to theft due to their price. E-Bikes can also be more dangerous compared to other alternatives, some models use standard bikes equipped with an added motor- those are not stable and have sub standard brakes. The better quality ones are better but they allow untrained people to reach speeds they were not trained for, sometimes without proper safety equipment.
  • occz 4y ago
    >In Sweden you can get government support when buying E-Bikes, 25% of up to 1000 euro. Could, unfortunately, not can. That incentive was only available in 2018. The right-wing killed it off as soon as they got any kind of power to do so. Yet another reason to abhor them.
  • Rebelgecko 4y ago
    Some of the newer ebikes are surprisingly light. Heavier than an acoustic bike, but only by 5-10lbs
• freetime2 4y ago
  E-bikes are great. I rode one to the office today, and when the weather is nice I consider my e-bike commute to be one the highlights of my day. There are a few things I disagree with in this article, though. > “An e-bike is a car trip replacer,” Cherry said, “but an e-cargo bike is a car replacer. An e-cargo bike offers a chance to do just about anything that most Americans need a car to do, like school runs, grocery runs, and so on.” I don't really agree with this. Cars are faster, can go further, they haul more, and they are comfortable to ride in any weather conditions. While I think that some people could make do with an e-bike instead of a car (or maybe one less car for a family), replacing a car with an e-bike would require a lot of sacrifices that I don't see the averge American being willing to make. And in my case, as someone who enjoys riding a bike and is even willing to do it in the rain, I don't see it as replacing a car trip but rather a bus trip. For the three months of the year when it snows and it's not safe/possible to ride a bike to the office, I ride a bus instead (I would prefer to drive my car, but parking is too expensive/inconvenient). > Even more baffling, Congress chose to make any e-bike costing over $4,000 ineligible for a credit, eliminating almost all e-cargo bikes. A quick google search turns up lots of cargo e-bikes for less than $4,000. [1] > And even with the motor providing some of the muscle, the cyclist will receive a surprisingly good workout. I wouldn't really call it a "workout". I find it to be about the same amount of exertion as walking (at a fairly leisurely pace). So definitely better than driving, and for sedentary people it might provide some meaningful benefit. But I have actually been considering switching to a regular bike for commuting just for the added exercise. [1] https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a25054215/best-cargo-bikes/ https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a25054215/best-cargo-bi...
  • ornornor 4y ago
    Yes there is a bit more discomfort in rain or snow, but it gives you a workout, is trivial to park, and is practically free to own/operate. I service my own bike and it costs me maaaaybe 150$ a year if I’m being generous. The bicycle cost around 2000$ to put together (ebike) counting all the tools I didn’t have. A car otoh would easily cost 200–300$/month just for existing (parking at home, taxes, and insurance). Never mind gas, traffic fines, parking at destination, maintenance, and the lack of exercise using one involves. Or the pollution and space it takes up. I also got a 300$ trailer that can haul 90 lbs (iirc), I’ve used it for Costco style groceries, ikea furniture transport and the hill to go back home is about 8% grade. No sweat with the torque sensing ebike.
• seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  E-bikes have been in China for forever now, and I see them as..maybe a bit cheap and flimsy, what you get if your locality has banned gas scooters/cycles and you can’t afford a car. You’ll see some guy collecting recycling with a cargo e bike stacked up 9 or so feet high, it’s quite amazing what can be done with them, but they would never be considered car or truck replacements. Of course, in the developed world, bikes are more luxury things, so the market for e-bikes is completely different.
  • Gigachad 4y ago
    e-bikes don’t replace all uses of cars, but they replace the majority.
  • devaler 4y ago
    > Of course, in the developed world, bikes are more luxury things I’m not sure where this notion comes from? I wasn’t rich as a child, but I had a bicycle, and I grew up in rural Appalachia.
    • seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      For adult transportation in the USA at least, riding a bike to work is seen as a luxury rather than an economy.
      • bluGill 4y ago
        For adult transportation in the US a bike is seen as you had a DWI and lost your license. There are a few fanatics who also ride to work that are changing the reputation, but if you are not a fanatic you had a DWI. Normal people don't bike to work.
        • seanmcdirmid 4y ago
          Maybe in the deep south? Otherwise, here in the north and west, no, it is seen as a status symbol (or perhaps a grifter who is out stealing bikes).
• deleted 4y ago
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• nubinetwork 4y ago
  I've owned two Vespa style ebikes in the past 5 years. First one had the steering column snapped after someone crashed into it in the winter (and didn't tell me)... Second one got straight up stolen out of my parking lot... as much as I would like to get a new one, I guess I'm not allowed to have nice things in this city.
• trabant00 4y ago
  I would say that the best compromise is an electric maxi-scooter (like the ICE equivalent, not the push board with handlebars). Takes the same space in traffic and parking as a bicycle, but has: - better safety: lower center of gravity, better brakes, better suspension, better headlight, brake light, turn signals, hazard lights - significant weather protection - passenger accommodation (can have handles, back rest) - significant storage under the seat, can also mount top box - more space for batteries and thus range and speed - harder physically to steal, also requires registration - requires a licence
• fuoqi 4y ago
  I believe unicycles are a better fit for urban mobility (I am talking about proper, mainline EUCs, not the Onewheel bastardization of the technology). You can easily use them together with public transit systems, while e-bikes are quite unwieldy. The have better maneuverability and responsiveness. They do not require any parking spots and can be easily taken to an office. They are a bit more dangerous than e-bikes, but with proper protective gear and improvements in the technology (chances of mechanical or electrical troubles are very low, if you don't intentionally push hardware to the limit) the difference is quite small. Also, they are somewhat harder to learn to ride, which hurts their popularity.
  • eloisant 4y ago
    They are not as confortable as bikes because you're standing, so you can't really travel the same distances as an e-bike. I honestly think the e-bike wins most of the cases, even if they're more bulky and can't easily get in public transportation.
    • fuoqi 4y ago
      1) Even being unaccustomed to riding unicycles most people can easily ride in 5-10 km range without any significant discomfort. It's usually enough when combined with public transport (I am talking about Europe, in the US it may not be so). For more experienced users 20-30 km easily falls into comfortable range. 2) "Sittable" EUC models do exist. Though usually they are higher end models and there are some caveats with riding EUC in such way.
• switch007 4y ago
  I love my e-bike. I can cycle along the canal to the nearest town in one direction and the next village in the other. I can easily climb the hills that surround my home and I can get up on the hill tops to get away from it all and decompress. There are roads with few cars weaving the countryside so I don’t find it too stressful. And the canal, while slower, is much nicer than the road that is adjacent. I wish I could sustain 15mph on the roads but the massive potholes make it too dangerous. But traveling slow has its benefits too. Admittedly fairly often I do miss having a car but I just rent one when I really need one
• hpaavola 4y ago
  11 months ago I bought myself an ebike and since then that's pretty much the only way I commute. It's 12.5km from home to office, so 25km per day, about 75% of the time (25% remotely). Year round, in Helsinki Finland. So snow, freezing temps many months per year. And rain. I have two kids; one at daycare, one goes to school. Every day I either take younger to daycare of pick her up. Yesterday trip meter crossed 4000km, pretty much only from commuting. My 12.5km commute takes 33 minutes when there isn't snow on the ground. During winter it takes few minutes longer. Weather is not an issue. I wear normal office clothes, so typically jeans and shirt. If it's raining, I wear gore-tex jacket and pants on top of office clothes. If it's raining heavily, I put gore-tex mittens and shoe covers. Those hard-shell clothes are always in my pannier bag, because you never know when the forecast is wrong. Also when it's cold, the same shell pants and jacket goes on top of office clothes. If it's really cold, I wear fleece jacket or merino wool hoodie underneath the gore-tex jacket. When temps drop below -10C, I put some long johns underneath jeans and also wear ski goggles. I'm never wet when arriving no matter how hard it rains. I'm not sweaty, so no need for shower. The only downside is that during the first 6 months, I lost 6kg, so had to buy new clothes. These are the clothes I wear on top of my office clothes: * https://rab.equipment/ca/meridian-jacket * https://www.cube.eu/fi-en/cube-blackline-rain-pants/12215 * https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_CA/product/waterproof-overmitts/ * https://www.vaude.com/en-INT/Men/Accessories/Gaiters/310/Bike-Gaiter-Short?number=012790100360 and all those are year round in my rear pannier https://www.ortlieb.com/en_us/twin-city-urban+F8102 https://www.ortlieb.com/en_us/twin-city-urban+F8102 if I'm not wearing those. Rear pannier also carries my laptop and other work related equipment, mostly mobile phones needed for development/testing. Bike commuting is fun, relaxing, healthy and fast enough for trips roughly under 15km. Weather does not matter. If you live in part of the world where it snows, bike path maintenance might be the dealbreaker. Also, if there isn't a viable bike route at all (pretty typical in many parts of the U.S.), then surely bike commuting is hard. EDIT: Oh, almost forgot, merino wool buff during winter months is really nice.
  • Gareth321 4y ago
    I love my ebike too, and I have a similar commute and routine with the kids. That said, in summer time in Denmark, I get sweaty. So I need to wear cooler gear and I often need a shower when I get to work. It definitely adds time to the commute so it's not all roses.
• Paul_S 4y ago
  In my city there's very little point in having an expensive bike (like all electric ones are) because you are either limited to only going places where you can stay with the bike (parks, etc) or it will inevitably be stolen. Any bike over a 1000 is guaranteed to be stolen no matter the amount of locks or cameras. Police in my city has an online form you can use to to report it to get the case number so you can claim on your insurance but they do not prosecute or investigate bike theft as policy.
  • crazygringo 4y ago
    Yup. E-bike bike share is the way to go here. I'd never purchase an e-bike myself for that exact reason, but I still use them several times a week. I actually wonder how many American city bike share programs have e-bikes by now, if it's most, or only a few.
  • worldsayshi 4y ago
    Yeah this seems like a big problem especially for e-bikes. I get that law enforcement can't really prioritize it because it seems impractical to investigate. Couldn't we solve this by embedding geo trackers in the bikes? That should make it much easier to catch thieves and make theft much less appealing. It could also be partially solved by flooding the city with cheap alternatives, like electric bikes that anyone can afford to rent on demand.
    • pjmlp 4y ago
      Bike sharing services already use trackers, and even those get stolen.
  • CalRobert 4y ago
    This was a big reason I got a folding bike. My Brompton never gets locked up outside - It fits inside a shopping cart so I even keep it with me when I'm getting groceries.
    • pklausler 4y ago
      My Brompton becomes my shopping cart.
• beefield 4y ago
  What we really need is ebike standards for the components. You should be able to use motors, batteries and contollers from any brand interchangeably on your bike. It is atrocious that you buy a bike worth an decent used car and you cant't expect the electric motor last more than a few thousand kilometers [1], after which you have a broken black box of an motor in you hands that you need to replace, not fix. Which, if you are out of warranty costs close to a thousand bucks. And it is a damn 250w electric motor. [1] google shimano e7000 longevity
  • jeffbee 4y ago
    Absolutely not. There has been so much innovation and improvement in batteries and motors in the past 5 years. Some kind of interoperability regulation would have completely wrecked that.
    • beefield 4y ago
      Coyld you elaborate what development happened in the last 5 years that would not have happened if it was required that your battery/motor fits into one of handful standard brackets and talks (at least) standard messages?
  • ornornor 4y ago
    That’s the reason why I built my ebike around a regular bicycle and an tsdz2 motor. It even has a FOSS firmware written by a very dedicated guy in Portugal. You can use a variety of displays with it, any battery pretty much, standard bicycle parts of course because it’s just whatever bicycle you started off with, and last I checked there was even a project to build a Garmin interface. On the downside, it’s more work, you have to repair the motor yourself when it breaks, and it’s peak Chinese engineering where tolerances can be quite approximate along with barely good enough materials. But it’s also part of the fun (for me) and I’ve put 2700km on it in three years of (very hilly) terrain; still works well.
    • pwpw 4y ago
      Do you mind providing a link with more info on how to build one?
• peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  Nahhh, the electric vehicles we need are these low-cost, low-center-of-gravity, not so easy to steal, with a registration plate number that identifies them, e-scooters [1] Bikes are for people who wanna bike, like skateboards are for people who wanna skateboard (there are electric skateboards already), but if we want to improve mobility in cities we should make it easy and convenient for people to switch, the people buying e-bikes are not your regular commuter and other "vehicles" such as e-scooters (the skateboards with handlebars) are just a fad, they are toys for grown-ups and are being banned all over Europe, especially in big cities: see Paris [2] - before someone brings up corruption and lame politicians lobbied by the fuel industry, people have voted to ban them because they are a disgrace if you happen to live in a touristic city. I live in Rome, I understand the pain and I can't wait they ban them here as well. [1] https://cdn.inmoto.it/img/992/558/2018/09/12/122124136-a9bb986c-9087-4af2-93d1-c3d19f35c620.jpg https://cdn.inmoto.it/img/992/558/2018/09/12/122124136-a9bb9... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65154854 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65154854
  • panick21_ 4y ago
    Trying to make these arbitrary lines is dumb. Bikes, E-Bikes, scooters can coexist just fine on the same infrastructure. The blocking of scooters in Europe is often dumb and motivated by argument that somehow don't apply to equally apply to cars. The reality is all these things are better then cars and all of them should be pushed at the same time and cars should be opposed. For a city like Rome with lots of tight spaces it makes some more sense, but still, getting ride of more cars would be a far better idea.
    • peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > Bikes, E-Bikes, scooters can coexist just fine on the same infrastructure. Yeah, but that's not what the headline says. So I don't understand why you're telling it to me. E-bikes are not replacing cars, they are replacing bikes, for people who already used bikes, so only e-bikes sellers and manufacturers "need" them. Meanwhile there are over 400 thousand two wheeled vehicles with an ice engine, albeit small, but still..., running in Rome everyday that could be easily replaced by e-mopeds and e-motorbikes that would actually make a difference air quality wise. Bikes are not making a dent in it, believe me. > The blocking of scooters in Europe is often dumb and motivated by argument that somehow don't apply to equally apply to cars. Are you saying people from Paris don't know what they want? Cars at at least are useful for something. And pay a lot of taxes, billions of euros every year. > The reality is all these things are better then cars So why people still prefer cars and are making electric cars? It's funny that "THE MARKET" is right only when it bothers someone else. > For a city like Rome with lots of tight spaces it makes some more sense, It is clear that you don't know Rome, tight spaces in Rome are the minority, maybe you've been to Trastevere one time and believe that's how Rome is built (spoiler: it's not), and don't know what people are complaining about. You'd be better off by asking when you don't understand something (even though a lot of the reasons are highlighted in the article I posted about Paris) Scooters are used mainly by American tourists to try'n'kill themselves because they don't understand that other people actually live in Rome and it's not a theme park, like Disneyland. And that there are holes in our streets and you shouldn't run on them at night, drunk, you and your drunk girlfriend, they are for one person only, where the lane for buses is, in the wrong direction. And then abandon them in front of the door of a house, an hotel or a shop or even better throwing them on a sidewalk blocking disabled people. e-mopeds have plates, you can fine people using them the wrong way. it is a fundamental part of trying to keep other road users safe. Including me, that walk all the time in Rome, because I love its very wide spaces.
• jonplackett 4y ago
  I have a few issues with e-bikes. 1 - bikes are already great, really cheap, and actually good for you to cycle. We also have an obesity problem in most western countries. 2 - they let inexperienced riders go really fast on bikes that are 3 x heavier. You see so many idiots cycling though red lights at 15mph weaving in and out of pedestrians. If you want to go that speed on a regular bike you have to earn that speed by cycling for many years
  • smileysteve 4y ago
    Some ebikes have a 6km/hr setting, and they all have brakes. The problem here is the reckless use
  • jeffbee 4y ago
    > they let inexperienced [operators] go really fast Wait until you hear about "cars".
    • bagacrap 4y ago
      Arguably you legally must be experienced to operate one
  • pklausler 4y ago
    May I please have your permission to continue enjoying my e-bike? At my advanced age and with my sore old knees, my Tern e-bike allows me to get up and over hills and make longer trips that just aren't possible for me any more with my non-e-bike.
  • _dain_ 4y ago
    >1 - bikes are already great, really cheap, and actually good for you to cycle. We also have an obesity problem in most western countries. Maybe this is another case where things are different in other countries, but: you still have to pedal on an ebike. It's not like a mini-moped where you just twist the throttle and the machine goes forward all by itself, with no work on your part. You have to put in some effort, and the electric motor multiplies that effort. And the motor cuts out above 15.5 mph so if you want to match 20mph traffic you have to make up that remaining 4.5mph by your muscles alone. In my unscientific judgement it feels more strenuous than a brisk walk, less strenuous than jogging. In my experience, most of the benefit is actually at low speeds because of the better acceleration. After waiting at traffic lights I can clear the junction faster from a dead stop, even if I forgot to change gears. So yeah over any particular distance it's less exercise than a normal bike. But in my experience it makes longer distance journeys feasible in the first place, particularly over hills. I use my ebike way more than I ever used a normal bike. It's kind of like that Jevon's Paradox[1] where energy-saving devices encourage people to use more electricity -- my effort-saving bike somehow makes me do more effort overall, from the greater mileage. >2 - they let inexperienced riders go really fast on bikes that are 3 x heavier. You see so many idiots cycling though red lights at 15mph weaving in and out of pedestrians. If you want to go that speed on a regular bike you have to earn that speed by cycling for many years I can't make broad-brush excuses for cyclists who jump red lights. In most cases it's obviously bad I don't know what the situation is like in your city. But in a few cases I think it's justifiable and I do it shamelessly at particular junctions. Traffic lights commonly detect cars by an induction coil embedded in the road surface. These devices are often not sensitive enough to detect bicycles. So you can end up in a situation where the light will stay red forever for you. In my view that makes the lights defective and it's justifiable to skip them (with extreme care ofc). There are other particular junctions in my city where I do it. These are ones with dedicated bike-triggered lights but they don't always work and have dumb timings, and the layout is peculiar so you can safely cross by hugging close to the pedestrian barriers through a red light on certain phases. It's always faster and just as safe. And some junctions are deathtraps for cyclists whether they go at green or red. I avoid those like the plague. If they are "weaving in and out of pedestrians" this may be a sign the city doesn't have adequate cyclist and pedestrian infrastructure. It is not difficult to design streets so that people walking aren't disturbed by bikes, in fact it's much easier than designing them so that people biking aren't disturbed by cars. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
• marapuru 4y ago
  No, what we need are normal quality bicycles. I have one that's been around for 15+ years. Needs little maintenance. My daily commute (30 minutes) gives me a bit of exercise, is good for my health. You need bicycle paths, discourage car usage. And let people become accustomed to 'normal speed of life'. E-bikes produce waste and contain parts that not everyone can service or maintain. I feel like an old guy saying this. But please, stop the glorification of power consuming stuff.
  • ornornor 4y ago
    To your point: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycles-sustainable-again.html https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2023/02/can-we-make-bicycl... However, if people switch to an ebike instead of their cars, it’s still a net positive overall.
    • marapuru 4y ago
      Excellent article. It was on HN a little while ago.
  • rolldat777 4y ago
    I believe if you compare the overall efficiency (including food production, transport, storage vs. battery production and electricity), e-bikes are in fact more efficient than traditional bikes. Coupled with the fact that they are also more convenient, I believe they fill a niche that is important if we want to make progress towards minimizing our dependence on cars. I do agree that they cannot be just another consumable item since that destroys the efficiency. But, that is generally how production is oriented these days, so it's hard to make a comparison. For reference, I manually cycle ~8k mi a year and do not own an e-bike, but am thinking about it.
  • doctaj 4y ago
    Geez… so negative. It’s just a matter of different things for different peoples’ needs. Your commute is 30 mins by bike, it not everyone’s is… if someone’s commute could be halved from 60 mins to 30 mins by using an e-bike, you’d get all those people in that radius who could bike instead of drive. Some people can’t ride 30 mins twice a day… 5 days a week… if an e-bike let people go every day, that’s just more people advocating for bicycles/bike paths/hard barriers/infra for everyone. Also, just making it easier to get into it. People who aren’t fit who wouldn’t even consider a traditional bicycle might consider this. It’s easy and a certain portion of people would eventually get multiple bikes for different purpose. I used to bike 45 mins to work (7 miles) - we had secure bike storage, showers and a locker room for bike stuff, but again… not everyone has that. If you were less sweaty and gross after biking (that is… less exertion on an ebike), more people would do it.