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AMD Announces 7950X3D, 7900X3D Upto 128MB L3 Cache
- db48x 4y ago/me sighs. I need to come up with an excuse to upgrade…
- didgetmaster 4y agoSame here. I just upgraded to a 5950X last year (I try to go at least 3 years between upgrades) but I am salivating already. I fully expected my data management software to be much faster on the new hardware since it uses multi-threading to make use of all those wonderful cores, but it blew me away just how fast it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVICKCkWMZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVICKCkWMZE I might have to bite the bullet later this year if the 7950X3D benchmarks look really good once it releases.
- yellow_lead 4y agoNice demo. I use my 3950x for compiling our c++ project, and I'm pretty happy with the speeds when using all the threads as well.
- nevi-me 4y agoImagine the 9950x, that can be a good reason to want to upgrade them. I'm on a 3900x and 2070 Super. I mostly reduced using the desktop when I got the M1 and M1 Pro devices. I now use it remotely from another room in the house. I'll hold out despite the temptations, and only update in 2-3 more years from now.
- _zoltan_ 4y agoI'm also on a 5950x and I need to find a reason to upgrade :))
- daemin 4y agoI'm on a 5950x as well but I'll be sticking with it for many years to come as it's still one of the most efficient chips out there - source: Gamer's Nexus benchmark videos.
- ohgodplsno 4y agoHere's an excuse not to upgrade: holy fuck it's horribly expensive these days.
- yellow_lead 4y agoIf it's something you use for work, the time saved could be justified if you have to compile or do something CPU-heavy often
- ohgodplsno 4y agoUnfortunately, it is hard, especially at an individual scale to say "I'm going to save up these $4000 over the next year and a half in productivity". Doubly so if you're just salaried and your pay will come, whether you use the shitty company laptop that takes 15 minutes to build or your crazy home rig. I'd love for me to be able to just run all my builds on full blast on a 24 core beast at home, but if your interests also include games, you're looking at multiple thousands just to upgrade. Needless to say, my apartment, family, vacations and a dozen other things are well above in the priority list.
- wpm 4y agoI upgraded to an X670E platform back in October. CPU+Mobo+RAM ran me up to $750 with a bundle from Microcenter (essentially, I got the RAM for free), and I reused my case and power supply. To upgrade to a "24 core beast", as close as you can get with the 7000 series is the 7950X (16C/32T), which I can get on Amazon for $550, minus the aftermarket price for my 7700X (and possibly my old rig, which was a Z170 intel platform). Even if I kept my old processor, a top of the AMD line rig costs about $1250, memory capacity not withstanding. Of course, that says nothing about the additional electricity costs, and I understand that my prices are not obtainable in most of the world unfortunately, but I think $4000 is a stretch unless you needed a load of RAM (it'd be about $600 to max out my motherboard to 128GB).
- ohgodplsno 4y agoAssuming you do not get deals: * $500 for a CPU (7800X starts at $450) * $60 for a cooler because the Wraith Prism is shit. * $200 for a motherboard, maybe $100 if you want to try to cheap out and get something that might have unstable voltages, shit PCIe bandwidth or no NVMe slots, etc. * $200 for 32GB of quality DDR5-4800 (or 5600 if you want to be fancy), and that's easily used up these days. * $200 for a quality 750W power supply * $100 for a case with good enough airflow, assuming you don't already have one. * $200+ for at least 1TB of NVMe storage, easily much more So, assuming a new build that didn't get incremental upgrades in the past, building a new, powerful PC these days is going to run you $1500. Without even picking any top of the line stuff. Guess what didn't get included in there ? GPUs with their bloody ridiculous prices. If you're going with NVidia, this 4000 generation is a waste if you're buying anything but the 4090. You could absolutely buy a 4080 (or rather a 4070Ti), or a 4070, but they're such a horrible deal in terms of price/performance. And that's going to cost you at the absolute least $800 (for a 4070, which is a dogshit card). Or you can try to find a series 3000, but that's also going to run you $1000+. If you're going with AMD, your problems are similar, for cards that are really subpar. As for Intel, well, let's just say an A770 with your high end CPU might cause a few bottlenecks here and there. So, yes, if you're lucky enough to find deals _and_ to have stuff that you can still use from an old, recent rig, sure, building a new PC isn't _that_ expensive. If you have to do major upgrades, you're looking at multiple thousands. Pulling that much money out in one go for something that is ultimately not extremely necessary is something that can only be afforded by a very small percentage of people.
- Sakos 4y agoI was looking forward to hearing about the next x3D CPUs and I'm relieved to hear they're finally coming. I'm excited about the benchmarks after seeing how capable the previous one was.
- peteri 4y agoThe 7950X3D looks interesting, but I think the cache is on one CCD so it might only boost to 5GHz and the other CCD boosts to 5.7 as it doesn't have the cache. Going to need to wait for bench marks.
- fassssst 4y agoExcited to see massive performance improvements in desktop hardware again. 7950X3D + an RTX 4090 + a PCIe 5 SSD will be quite the system for programming, machine learning, video editing, music production, gaming...
- photoGrant 4y agoI'm on a 3970x, 3090 and nvme-pcie-4 x 4 (raid 0), 256gb ram... I haven't found a need to upgrade, or have reached this systems potential by any stretch. especially for video editing, music production and photography and compiling... I dunno the only direction I care for at the moment is TDP
- FloatArtifact 4y agoWhen fully utilizing NVMe storage raid array are you maxing out CPU?
- photoGrant 4y agoNot even close!
- burnte 4y agoI'm on a 5800X with a 3080ti and 64GB, also PCIe 4.0 SSDs. I built in in 2019 then upgraded the CPU a year ago from a 3600x to the 5800x and it's so insanely fast for everything I do, including VMs, compiles, transcodes, etc. Nutty performance. The past few years have had amazing performance boosts.
- kyriakos 4y agoAMD sticking to one socket (AM4) for multiple generations was a great move for end users. I am also on 3600x and just yesterday was looking to order a 5800x since the prices have dropped a lot and the performance gain is around 50% just by upgrading one component.
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- morjom 4y agoso the article says 128MB but in the later slides they say 144MB. Is the 16MB difference L2 then?
- neogodless 4y agoCorrect - a lot of the slides show L2 + L3 total cache size.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- castratikron 4y agoI'm hoping someday there will be an embedded Linux processor with this much cache. 128MB on-die SRAM means the PCB would no longer need separate DRAM. The complexity of the board routing would also go down. That much RAM ought to be enough for a lot of embedded applications.
- diarmuidc 4y agoThere are SOCs available with the DRAM on top already. eg https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microcontrollers-and-microprocessors/32-bit-mpus/sip-and-som/system-in-package https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microcontrollers-an...
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoBasically every smartphone ARM SoC for over 10 years now. Some Raspberry PI SoCs also had the RAM soldered on top.
- rektide 4y agoIf you just want to reduce board complexity (what a hobbyost/maker/homebuilder dream that would be), there's lots of package-on-package and system-in-package offerings already! AllWinner V3s, S3. Theres a SAMA5D2 SiP. Bouffalo BL808 (featured on the Pine Ox64). There's a lot a lot more. I think there's a couple with even more memory too. Intel's Lakefield, with Foveros stacking, was an amazing chip with 1+4 cores and on chip ram. High speed too, 4266MHz, back in 2020 when that was pretty fast. This is more for MID/ultrabooks, but wow what a chip, just epic: add power and away you go. Ok not really but not dealing with routing (and procuring!) highspeed ram is very nice. Intels been doing such a good pushing interesting nice things in embedded, but the adoption has been not great. The Quark chips, powering the awesome Edison module, had nice oomph & Edison was so well integrated, such an easy to use & so featureful small Linux system... wifi & bt well well well before RPi. It would be fun to see DRAM-less computers but I more imagined them being big systems with a couple GB of sram. There's definitely potential for low end too though!
- packetlost 4y agoThe Pine64 Ox64 has a Bouffalo Labs BL808 with 64MB of pSRAM for $6-8 and an MMU. It's already got sorta-working Linux build for it.
- britneybitch 4y ago"3D" means that components are physically stacked more than one layer thick, right? Is there any public info about how heat dissipation is handled?
- adgjlsfhk1 4y agoYeah. They put cache on top of the cores. Heat dissipation is handled by lowering the TDP a little and the fact that the cache doesn't produce much heat.
- britneybitch 4y agoThat makes sense. I imagined cores stacked on top of cores for some reason. Stacking cache does seem simpler.
- dlivingston 4y agoI think primarily it refers to the cache being physically located above the CPU die, yes. It's worth noting that AMD also uses FinFET transistors, which are physically 3-D [0, 1] (compared to MOSFET transistors, which are planar / 2-D). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fin_field-effect_transistor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fin_field-effect_transistor [1]: https://www.amd.com/en/press-releases/amd-demonstrates-2016jan04 https://www.amd.com/en/press-releases/amd-demonstrates-2016j...
- Arrath 4y ago> Is there any public info about how heat dissipation is handled? By pulling the chips back to 120w, it looks like!
- Havoc 4y agoNeat. Really struggling to justify any sort of upgrade my side to be honest though. 3700x is still plenty fast. Maybe when 4K gaming is a bit more mainstream…
- mrtranscendence 4y agoI'm running a 5800x and a 3080 Ti, primarily for gaming and a bit of machine learning (for everything else I use a Mac). As I game at 4K there are definitely scenarios where upgrading would be helpful; games like Cyberpunk, A Plague Tale: Requiem, or The Callisto Protocol don't run particularly well on my setup. And ray tracing in general can be a challenge. Of course, 4/5s of what I play are indies that would run on a potato, so it's probably not worth upgrading. I nevertheless probably will build a new computer later on in the year, and a 4080 / 5800x3D combo is awfully tempting ...
- Havoc 4y agoDoes 5800x to 3D make sense? Sounds like a lot of money for a small jump.
- scns 4y agoIt is still the cheapest jump you can make in that position. Other jumps need new mobo + CPU + RAM (AMD) or new mobo + CPU (Intel).
- mrtranscendence 4y agoOops. I meant 7800x3D.
- Teever 4y agoIt depends on how much a used 5800x goes for on marketplace/ebay.
- metadat 4y agoIs this workload really CPU bound at all?
- alberth 4y agoServer chip. The 7950X3D makes for a phenomenal server chip (perf/cost). Do any cloud providers beyond OVH/Hetzner offer these "desktop" class chips available for hosting use cases?
- PixyMisa 4y agoIf you want a dedicated server rather than a VM, yes. WebNX / Gorilla Servers, for example. But 7950X dedicated servers are currently pretty expensive from them - about twice the cost per month of a 5950X.
- formerly_proven 4y agoThe buried lede of these is that they have asymmetric L3 cache. One CCD gets the 3D V-cache stacked on top, the other doesn't. That's almost certainly how AMD managed to solve the thermal and clock issues of the 5800X3D - they didn't. The 3D CCD will run hot (at low power) with lower clocks and the non-3D CCD is responsible for reaching the advertised boost clocks. Note how the 7800X3D, a single CCD SKU, has an advertised maximum clock of 5 GHz, compared to the 5.6/5.7 of the two dual CCD SKUs (the 7700X below it advertises 5.4 GHz). Don't expect the 3D cached-cores to exceed 5 GHz on those other parts. This means that the performance profile of the two CCDs is very different. Not "P vs E core" different, but still significant. If you run (most) games, you want to put all their threads on the first CCD. If you run (most other) lightly threaded workloads, you'd often want the other, non-3D CCD. This seems like a rather significant scheduling nightmare to me.
- doikor 4y agoAMD said their drivers/software should handle it. Basically working with Microsoft to get the Windows scheduler make the correct decision. No clue how it would work with Linux though. Intel did similar work with E/P cores.
- csdvrx 4y ago> Intel did similar work with E/P cores. Indeed, that's Lakefield as seen in the Intel Core i5-L16G7. The Scheduler changes (in Windows 11 at least) make it extremely pleasant to use on the Lenovo X1 Fold, even if there're some drivers problems (fortunately easy to fix: https://csdvrx.github.io/ https://csdvrx.github.io/ )
- throwaway0x7E6 4y agoimagine the UPS
- neogodless 4y agoThese are 120W CPUs. I'm not sure what your comment is supposed to communicate.
- 8jy89hui 4y agoI think this person is referencing the game Factorio which is known to benefit from more cache. (UPS = updates per second)
- neogodless 4y agoAh ha! Thanks for the clarification! Good thing UPS is a unique acronym that isn't used elsewhere when discussing computers :) AAAAA (anti-"ambiguous acronym" advocates anonymous)
- ilyt 4y agoThe only one I know is the power supply and that doesn't fit the context
- neogodless 4y agoIt made sense to me - an Uninterruptible Power Supply should be sized according to the power draw of a computer. If these were power hungry CPUs, you would need a really beefy UPS. So that's what I thought they were trying to say!
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- salusinarduis 4y agoQuestion for people that read deep into these things. What is the best CPU for the linker stage of compiling? I would assume these high performing single core "gaming" CPUs would do well, but I must admit I care a lot about power efficiency as well. I have a 3900x and love that CPU for nearly everything but waiting on optimized builds.
- redox99 4y agoi9 13900k or r9 7950x. As far as I remember the compile benchmarks were worse on the 5800x3d than the 5800x. 7950x is more efficient than 13900k, so that's your answer. Idle usage ryzen is often worse than intel though, so pick your poison.
- josephg 4y agoI can't speak to the "best" CPU, but I use a 7950x for rust development work in linux. Its probably overkill - The rust compiler doesn't even feel slow anymore for me on this machine. Its a fantastic CPU.
- philliphaydon 4y agoI went Intel 12th gen and I have buyer’s remorse. My next upgrade I’ll go back to AMD. Every 12th gen I’ve touched has little stuttering issues. Last week I was playing around with laptops at the store with 13th gen and they also get random stuttering issues too. A lot of people have said to me they don’t get any issues but going into a store and opening up YouTube with a 4k video and moving the mouse it stops and then continues. The AMD laptops don’t do this at all.
- duped 4y agoThe problem is that most default linkers don't scale well with core count, and throwing hardware at the problem is kind of a waste of money since single core execution speeds only present marginal gains. If you use a linker like mold instead of ld you'll see orders of magnitude higher performance. Also throw the guy a few bucks if you're on MacOS
- dunefox 4y agoJust enough for dwarf fortress!
- terafo 4y agoWonder how long we have until they make chiplet without L3$ and rely only upon 3D V-Cache. That would allow to make chiplet either roughly 2x smaller or pack twice as much cores.
- wtallis 4y agoAll the V-Cache parts are currently premium parts. Dropping the L3 from the underlying CCD chiplet would force them to incur the extra 3D packaging costs on all the products using those chiplets. It would also put the V-Cache directly over the CPU cores, where the current products only stack V-Cache on top of the L3 portion of the underlying CCD. I don't expect them to make this kind of change anytime soon.
- outside1234 4y agoWill be great for Microsoft Flight Simulator :)
- russelg 4y agoThe 5800X3D is a gaming beast so I expect the same from these.
- ngcc_hk 4y agoWonder why no portable X3D. You do have gaming notebook
- sylware 4y agoBTW, are specter and friends fixed in zen4?