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Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap

407 points by hagen2022 4y ago

turblety 4y ago
I really despise the idea/existence of app stores. Why can't a publishers website be their store front, then from that site, you can run (or "download"/"install" if you must) the app? Technically it looks like that would actually work [1]. They could host the `.snap` file. Although I'm sure snap will add friction to this (as in, not simple let you open and click "Install") from a downloaded snap file, as they probably want you to use their app store. 1. https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70#issuecomment-1292163793 https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70#iss...
- martinmunk 4y ago
  Are they, technically, any different than APT repositories? Don't get me wrong. I hate Snap much more than the next guy, but the idea of keeping a repository so you can go look for, and discover, stuff that is supposedly also vetted by someone is nice. The issue is, when an app store is a monopoly and not standardized. APT repositories is, in my eyes, an example of "the good" type of app store.
  - Tsiklon 4y ago
    Technically not really, instead of packaging the software into a .deb it’s shipping a container and metadata to get it working. I think the rub here is that the maintainers of the signal snap can't reuse the work they’ve already put in to this and offer it elsewhere in another snap repository as there’s no other snap repository possible
  - tapoxi 4y ago
    Flatpak solves this problem, unlike Snap (but like APT) anyone can run a repository. There is Flathub as a nice default but it isn't official.
    - Octabrain 4y ago
      I always say that one of the problems in the Canonical's strategy with Snap is not to provide the backend allowing everyone to set their own "store". Then, Canonical would focus in the added value of their one, with things such as a payment processor, malware scanning, ci/cd integration, stats, etc making it appealing. Flatpak allows this, but, in the other hand, despite I exclusively use Flatpak these days, I dislike the fact that is not focused in CLI apps but desktop ones instead.
    - johnisgood 4y ago
      There is a proprietary piece of software that is released on Snap Store only. They used to release a .deb file. When they did that, it was as easy as extracting the files from the .deb file and run the executable. With Snap, however, it is much more of a hassle to do the same thing. It is possible (at least for the one I have in mind), but yeah, no.
- edent 4y ago
  Because that doesn't solve the discovery problem. People want an easy way to find new things. Whether that's `apt search` or Google Play.
  - timtom39 4y ago
    Yea, don't bucket Linux users in with typical Google and Apple store users. I need no help "discovering" software through some companies arbitrary filter. I can use google, github, hacker news, etc.
  - vaidhy 4y ago
    I do need t think discovery is the same problem any more. You can search for self hosted snaps about as well as you can within the snap store. However, trust can be an issue which has solutions that come at the cost of speed and storage.
  - danuker 4y ago
    For discovery, there's also GitHub, GitLab, Hacker News and so on.
  - seabird 4y ago
    Do Linux users installing software actually have a "discovery problem"? The usual solution is to go to google.com and find in-depth information on the options available for a given class of software, with user reviews, notes on strengths and shortcomings, etc. I have never visited a store first on a desktop OS, and even average users of mobile OS' that I know will fire up Google first if they're actually trying to find the best implementation of X app. I don't know a single person that has anything good to say about the Windows app store. The Year of the Linux Desktop isn't now, and it may never happen. Even if it does, I don't think any of the hypothetical "normie" Linux users would really care for it all that much. Trying to be the devil's advocate for things like the Snap store benefits a group of users that doesn't exist in any timeline at the expense of current users in this timeline.
    - freedomben 4y ago
      Absolutely, when I want to find something, the first thing I will do is DNF search. It's amazing how much you can find and so quickly. It sorts in a smart way as well, where exact matches will appear first, then partial matches on the package name, and then metadata. This makes it quick and easy to see if what I want is there. When searching on Google, I have to look through a bunch of crappy results from SEO optimized crap. Then when I find something that looks interesting, I have to see if it's packaged for Fedora or not. If not, then I have to hunt down either a GitHub page or look for a RPM file or a flat pack or app image. I won't use a snap even if it's the only distribution method. There's also a very convenient way of checking for popularity, which doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad pic, but if the package is popular enough that somebody has packaged it for Fedora and maintains the package, there's a very high chance that it will work as needed. If you don't currently check the apt or DNF repos first, I would definitely recommend doing so.
- ifeeltriedboss 4y ago
  And if you wanted to install 10 apps, then you'd have to visit 10 web pages, search for the file and then install? No, leave this for Windows.
  - timtom39 4y ago
    You don't already do this for Linux? :( A new Linux setup already requires me to visit a bunch of sites and find .debs. Chrome, Signal, Edge, Visual Studio Code, Slack, etc. I don't really trust random unofficial maintainers in snap store and all of the above is required for my work.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      Don't most distribution repos already have all those already included with the "main" package management system?
    - ifeeltriedboss 4y ago
      I just write flatpak install chrome and the machine is like OK /s
    - chpatrick 4y ago
      Depends on the distro, I can just install all of those directly with Nix.
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    > No, leave this for Windows. This hasn't been the case on Windows for years now.
  - forgotpwd16 4y ago
    It isn't impossible to have both. An app store that is a registry pointing to packages/files hosted by the developer. And since you mentioned Windows, that's exactly how choco and winget work.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  For me, it's updates... I don't want popups telling me to update software every few days, and then opening a webpage, downloading a snap/deb/whatever, installing it again, with sudo passwords and all that,... and then open another app, another popup, another site, another .deb... It feels like windows. I want a centralized "update" feature, that will do all that for me. This can be done by signal adding its own repo, but it's a pain to add a per-app repo, if the app can be on the central (distribution-managed) one, especially if it's a popular app.
  - syntaxing 4y ago
    Not sure if your post was satire, but isn’t everything you mentioned doable with apt already? Signal already has an official apt repo so all you need to do is the standard apt upgrade and everything including signal would be updated.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      Read the comment above mine: > I really despise the idea/existence of app stores. > Why can't a publishers website be their store front, then from that site, you can run (or "download"/"install" if you must) the app?
    - treis 4y ago
      The problem with that is now you've given a 3rd party power to update your system in any way that they want. Which is fine when it's just signal but less ideal when it's 20-30 randomish companies of varying degrees of trustworthiness. The point behind flatpaks et. al. is sandboxing applications so that they can be safely updated automatically.
      - _-david-_ 4y ago
        I don't use apt but I think you can use the pinning feature in apt and only allow the Signal application from Signal's repo. It doesn't solve all problems since they could add dependencies from other repos, but at least it is partly stops them from adding their own dependencies in their repo.
- chriswarbo 4y ago
  Ideally it would be handled like BitTorrent/Magnet/IPFS: - Links resolve, and data can be fetched, as long as anyone is hosting it (regardless of who) - Anyone (including big orgs/corps) can provide a curated lists/search for links they vouch for - Removing something from a list doesn't affect anyone's ability to fetch and use it; only whether they see the link in that particular search/list UI
mort96 4y ago
This is not a good look. The snap has been gone for almost a month, with seemingly no information given to the maintainer or users about why, except a belated "we removed it for policy reasons" 21 days ago. And if this happens to maintainers associated with Snapcrafters, imagine how you're treated if you're just some random person or company who maintains your own snap. This is the sort of reason why people are concerned about an ecosystem where Canonical has 100% of the control of the only distribution mechanism. I suppose this is just a confirmation of the legitimacy of those fears.
- mort96 4y ago
  Another perspective: Canonical's IoT offering, Ubuntu Core, is based around the idea that Canonical provides the base operating system, and you provide your software as a snap, uploaded to Canonical's snap store, and you push updates to your IoT product by pushing an updated snap to the store. That has always rubbed me the wrong way, but "Canonical will just delete the snap and not respond to questions about why" wasn't even something I had considered as a possibility before.
  - xp84 4y ago
    To be fair, as long as you don’t issue a DMCA takedown for your own software, this particular case is not a good example of something to be worried about in that situation. There may be plenty of other concerns, of course.
  - sarnowski 4y ago
    And last time I checked, they refused to let you use your own signing keys. Means you do not get end to end trust for your own bits but need to rely on Canonical that they don’t screw up - with the obvious effect of strong vendor lock-in as I cannot sign and run my own bits.
    - mort96 4y ago
      Yeah, that's the kind of stuff which has made Ubuntu Core rub me the wrong way before this. I'm a much bigger fan of Yocto[1], with something like Rauc[2] for the software upgrade system. It's more work to get going, but in the end, you're in control of your product, not Canonical. [1]: https://www.yoctoproject.org/ https://www.yoctoproject.org/ [2]: https://rauc.io/ https://rauc.io/
TheRealPomax 4y ago
After reading the thread, I still have no idea why it got removed, so: why did it get removed? What part(s) of the snap policies did they violate, and how is it possible that even something doesn't charge $100 a year before you can even publish a snap doesn't even notify the maintainers that their app got removed? Just because you run an app store doesn't mean Apple and Google's opaque refusal system is the part you should take inspiration from, too.
- turblety 4y ago
  No one knows [1], except Snap. Not even the maintainers :( Snaps response [2] seems to be: > I understand the sudden move of signal-desktop can be disruptive for people wishing to install this package. Just to confirm the reason for the absence - Snap Store administrators had to remove the snap in accordance with our policies. We hope to have it back shortly. 1. https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70#issuecomment-1287895145 https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70#iss... 2. https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-happened-to-signal-desktop/32119/4 https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-happened-to-signal-desktop...
  - Y_Y 4y ago
    That's funny, because in accordance with my policy I delete snap immediately after install.
    - cuteboy19 4y ago
      It's standard policy for me to uninstall snapd after every Ubuntu install
      - bravetraveler 4y ago
        My standard policy is to avoid Canonical
        Spivak 4y ago
sschueller 4y ago
To any app dev. If your app is only available via snap I will not be using it. Also certbot, shame on you for removing the Debian repository in favor of snap.
- pooper 4y ago
  > Also certbot, shame on you for removing the Debian repository in favor of snap. Yes, this deserves shaming. > https://certbot.eff.org/instructions https://certbot.eff.org/instructions > The Certbot snap supports the x86_64, ARMv7, and ARMv8 architectures. While we strongly recommend that most users install Certbot through the snap, you can find alternate installation instructions here. Shame on you, certbot and EFF. Of all people, I expected better from you. For my Fedora people, looks like we can directly install with `dnf`. Debian aptitude people should prefer the same. Available Packages Name : certbot Version : 1.30.0 Release : 1.fc36 Architecture : noarch Size : 44 k Source : certbot-1.30.0-1.fc36.src.rpm Repository : updates Summary : A free, automated certificate authority client URL : https://pypi.python.org/pypi/certbot License : Apache-2.0 Description : certbot is a free, automated certificate authority that aims : to lower the barriers to entry for encrypting all HTTP traffic on the internet.
  - mikepurvis 4y ago
    Debian has it too: https://packages.debian.org/sid/certbot https://packages.debian.org/sid/certbot And even Ubuntu: https://packages.ubuntu.com/kinetic/certbot https://packages.ubuntu.com/kinetic/certbot Though I guess there's a risk that eventually the Ubuntu package becomes a facade package like Chrome is, that has no content but uses a postinstall script to grab you the snap instead.
    - jaapz 4y ago
      versions in debian and ubuntu repo's have a tendency to lag behind, current version seems to be 1.30.x while in debian and ubuntu repos it's on 1.29.x
simion314 4y ago
It is not clear to me if the maintainers are the developers or a third party person not affiliated with the devs.
ryukafalz 4y ago
This kind of thing is vindicating for those of us who stayed away from snaps precisely because the server side is proprietary and the snap tooling only supports Canonical's centralized store. A centralized service being the only option for software distribution is too large of a failure point, no matter who's running it.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  The application went down because of a DMCA request. The same would've happened with APT repositories and other distribution systems in that the "official" source would disappear. You could've installed it from an alternative source were that to happen to a simple repository but you still can now. I have plenty of gripes with Snap but this time the Signal team is to blame.
  - cyberphobe 4y ago
    Signal never gave canonical permission to distribute a binary called Signal. Canonical just went ahead and did it anyway. How is this Signal’s fault?
    - monocasa 4y ago
      DMCA isn't a mechanism for trademark disputes.
      - cyberphobe 4y ago
        Then complain about that. Honestly given the existing set of miscommunications about what happened, I’m not sure it is an actual DMCA request
    - loloquwowndueo 4y ago
      Canonical distributes the snap in the sense of “owns the store and infrastructure” but the publisher is not canonical - it’s snapcrafters which is a group of community volunteers.
    - 4y ago
foolswisdom 4y ago
What is this response? Still no indication anyone has been contacted with the reason why it was removed, only that "in the future we will let you know if we remove something, sorry". https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-happened-to-signal-desktop/32119/12 https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-happened-to-signal-desktop...
- he_is_legend 4y ago
  "This is due to a DMCA takedown request coming from people representing Signal. Canonical is currently working with Signal to resolve this issue."
cercatrova 4y ago
On any fresh Ubuntu install including on WSL, I always `apt uninstall snap` and never worry about it again. I will never use snap and will continue to use apt for packages, thank you very much.
- inetknght 4y ago
  > I always `apt uninstall snap` and never worry about it again. Might want to double-check if/when there's some automatic update that decides to reinstall Snap
ifeeltriedboss 4y ago
I wonder why Signal opposes flatpak so much. As far as I remember, they insist on sticking to .deb package only [1]. Seems like switching to Flatpak would benefit a lot of people now because of Steam Deck-induced Flatpak popularity [2]. 1. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1639 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1639 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/tiidh8/comment/i1emhsm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/tiidh8/comment/i1em...
- cmeacham98 4y ago
  There is a Signal flatpak (https://github.com/flathub/org.signal.Signal https://github.com/flathub/org.signal.Signal), I'm unsure if the Signal devs are involved in it or not.
  - akvadrako 4y ago
    I've been using it for about a year - seems fine.
    - hackerbrother 4y ago
      Me too. Would appreciate it being first-party though.
  - _-david-_ 4y ago
    It is not official. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1639 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1639 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-desktop-for-non-apt-linux-distributions/1356 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-desktop-for-non-a...
ilaksh 4y ago
Well, I have been using Ubuntu for many years. This kind of thing, centralizing packages and removing one without explanation etc makes me think I should move on. I suppose the alternative is to switch to Debian? Or maybe there is something totally different that is becoming popular that I don't know about yet?
- biasedestimate 4y ago
  Just switch to Mint, it is as stable / easy as Ubuntu and 100% snap free.
- siwatanejo 4y ago
  As for me, I'll keep ubuntu but I'll start using flatpak instead of snap.
  - commoner 4y ago
    It's easy to install Flatpak on your current Linux distro. Flatpak officially supports 36 distros. Some of them already have Flatpak built in, while others (including Ubuntu) require just a few minutes to set up Flatpak and Flathub: https://flatpak.org/setup/ https://flatpak.org/setup/
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  Discussed recently in another story, but many including me like Pop!_OS as a better version of Ubuntu.
  - ilaksh 4y ago
    I tried Pop before, eventually ran into a compatibility issue. Also it's based on Ubuntu.
    - CoastalCoder 4y ago
      I can't speak to the compatibility issues you hit, since that's obviously hardware specific. Sorry I wasn't clear enough about the Ubuntu connection. Pop!_OS is based on Ubuntu, but Pop!_OS provides non-snap packages for (AFAIK) everything. So for me, Pop!_OS is like Ubuntu, minus the user-hostility.
warent 4y ago
This is really sad because I've become a huge Ubuntu fanboy in the last year, but this behavior is unacceptable. They need to fix their processes and be more dev friendly or they're going to lose allies.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- timbit42 4y ago
  Many Ubuntu users have moved to either Linux Mint, which is still based on Ubuntu, or Debian, neither of which have Snaps by default.
politelemon 4y ago
This issue was also raised on their GitHub https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70 https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70
dekhn 4y ago
snap is garbage. For a while when it first came out, it had newer packages than Ubuntu. But then, over time, most of the packages went stale. Every snap I install requires --classic (which overrides the sandbox). I wish they would just kill it.
SlackingOff123 4y ago
I'm being slightly offtopic here but I really dislike how slow Firefox is to launch since it became a snap package as a default on Ubuntu 22.04. I know I can uninstall the Firefox snap and install it through APT, but I imagine more and more packages will become snaps by default on Ubuntu. And finding out now that it's possible that snaps are part of a walled garden, just like app/play stores are is really bumming me out. I'm rather new to linux and Ubuntu is the distro I'm most familiar with and I also really like using KDE. So I'm wondering if it's feasible to continue using a Ubuntu based distribution while completely avoiding Snaps or should I just switch distros (maybe to another one that runs KDE).
- ridgered4 4y ago
  I use linux mint which is still ubuntu based and doesn't use snaps.
- j33zusjuice 4y ago
  They all run KDE, even when they don’t provide it out of the box. You can just install it and use KDE instead of Gnome. I’m a big fan of Fedora. I primarily work on RHEL systems, though, so I’m biased because it’s what I’m used to using.
  - freedomben 4y ago
    I'm also a big fan of Fedora and can recommend. Fedora does things a little differently that will take a bit of getting used to, but all in all it's mostly the same. You'll need to learn to use dnf instead of apt, and system files (like config files) will sometimes be in a different place (as Fedora follows FHS more closely, similar to Arch), but it's really not too bad. I've never run the KDE spin of Fedora, but from what I understand it's popular and well maintained so shouldn't be an issue.
  - floren 4y ago
    > They all run KDE, even when they don’t provide it out of the box. You can just install it and use KDE instead of Gnome. Ubuntu has a lot to answer for, and planting the idea that you have to completely reinstall your OS to switch to a different window manager is right up there at the top. Kubuntu, Xubuntu, god those were terrible ideas.
JTbane 4y ago
boycott Snap!
- rubyist5eva 4y ago
  boycott Signal actually, they are the ones that sent a silly takedown notice
mesebrec 4y ago
Signal Snap Maintainer here, this is because of a DMCA takedown request from lawyers representing Signal. Canonical is currently working with them to clear things up. Canonical's communication to me was initially lacking due to issues in their process, the process has been amended and I'm back in the loop again.
- sschueller 4y ago
  Yet another reason not to use Signal. The correct behavior would have been for signal to offer an official snap or to contact the maintainer. Instead they send their legal team...
  - award_ 4y ago
    What are your others? I use signal alot personally and haven't had too many issues.
    - sschueller 4y ago
      - Still need a phone number - They refuse to post the app on f-droid (directly) - No 3rd party clients allowed on their servers. - Crypto thing they attempted - I don't trust Moxie, he rubs me the wrong way.
      - junon 4y ago
        Agreed on all counts, especially the last one.
      - artificialLimbs 4y ago
        - Backups? lol...
      - aeturnum 4y ago
        None of these suggest you shouldn't use signal - or that it's not meeting its goal of secure communication (except the last one I suppose). Signal is not without flaws as you say, but if you have a phone number and can access a binary, there's every reason to believe it will securely and privately transmit your messages. You are also, ofc, free to fork their client and run your own service (as others have done).
JonathanBeuys 4y ago
Is there any reason to have snapd installed on your system? I am currently setting up a new laptop and so far my plan is to not install it. Anybody here who uses it? Care to tell why?
- timbit42 4y ago
  If you remove Snaps from Ubuntu, how do you install apps that are not in their regular repo, for example, Firefox? Do you sideload them?
  - JonathanBeuys 4y ago
    Ubuntu is based on Debian, and Debian has Firefox in their repos. Does Ubuntu remove it?
daitangio 4y ago
My two cents: ubuntu snap daemon is not a good idea at all. "Snap is a magnificent idea with a still immature realization.[...] The overall user experience with Snaps on Ubuntu is frustrating: several apps won’t start when installed as snaps, others run weird, others take really long time to start. As an example: Telegram as snap takes around 51 sec to be operative, Telegram installed as binary starts in 1,5 sec." see https://cialu.net/how-to-disable-and-remove-completely-snaps-in-ubuntu-linux/ https://cialu.net/how-to-disable-and-remove-completely-snaps... Also I was never happy with snap because unable to full control when software will be upgraded (and why). It was the main reason I stopped to use it, after Ubuntu20 make snap a default install complex to remove: https://gioorgi.com/2021/ubuntu-20-failed-me/ https://gioorgi.com/2021/ubuntu-20-failed-me/
undoware 4y ago
"I can't believe they gatekept MY package," says user who enthusiastically downloaded WalledGarden Distro. cf https://twitter.com/cavalorn/status/654934442549620736?lang=en https://twitter.com/cavalorn/status/654934442549620736?lang=...
lxe 4y ago
DMCA takedowns need to go away forever. What an idiotic implementation of the law. If someone is claiming theft, they have to at least provide proof. Imagine if I asked police to give me my neighbor's car, as I'm claiming it as mine, and they would have to immediately comply before investigating if my claim has merit?
lxe 4y ago
How in the world did a walled garden ecosystem like Snap manage to embed itself so deeply into Linux culture? There needs to be a user and industry revolt against Snap for this sort of shenanigans.
- luckylion 4y ago
  You want a revolt against snap for ... Signal sending DMCA takedowns?
  - johnisgood 4y ago
    No... there are many reasons to revolt against snap. That, and software that gets released on Snap Store only is definitely not worth using. Sorry for not having elaborated as to why snap sucks, but I have written so many comments on it already. I may look them up and bookmark them for future reference.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  The snap distribution is unofficial. The Signal team only provides .deb files for Linux (seemingly built for Ubuntu Xenial) and any other distribution method on Linux is strictly done by volunteers. If Signal is willing to leverage the DMCA to take down the Snap package, they could just as easily take down any other unofficial repository. If you wish to solve this problem, write a letter to your favourite American legislator to protest the stupid way the DMCA is set up or contact Signal legal and tell them their use of the DMCA is bad for the open ecosystem that they operate in. Someone freely choosing to grab an unofficial version of Signal from the store of their preference isn't the problem here.
- b112 4y ago
  The same was systemd did? The force of a multi-billion dollar company, where profit is far more important than doing it right? Linux and OSS software became what it is, became the stable, secure powerhouse it is, literally dominating every aspect of computing, because profit was originally less important. Look at Debian, which only ships when ready, and never ever to a fixed deadline. Yet today, almost all private corps take and take and take, without every contributiong code and workers back. Look at Ubuntu, a distro which literally could not even remotely exist without Debian, from which most of it is derived, and rebased to constantly. To Ubuntu, a great leech of the OSS world, it is more important to give a crappy experience(snaps), than use Firefox LTS, for example. Good grief.
a-dub 4y ago
of course they are going after unofficial distribution channels, it's signal, their whole schtick is owning everything end to end so that people can trust their brand.
numeromancer 4y ago
> > Snap Store administrators had to remove the snap in accordance with our policies. > > Thank you for providing an official answer. An officious answer is more like it. Note the deliberate evasiveness (which policy? Mind your own business.). This is to be expected from an organization one of whose "policies" is "we are going to update apps on 'your' desktop whether you like it or not, luzer."
bobmaxup 4y ago
It is interesting how quickly this discussion moved from, "Never use Ubuntu or Snap" to "Never use Signal"
- jethro_tell 4y ago
  IDK, Signal has been getting more hostile to users over time. In the coming months, when they drop the sms functionality I will drop signal forever. That's pretty crazy because I've been using it since it was red-phone in the early 2010's with my samsung galaxy2.
miniBill 4y ago
... Oh Snap
jeroenhd 4y ago
Quite something for an open source project to use DMCA of all mechanisms to remove an unofficial distribution, but alright, maybe there's a trademark issue. Sounds like someone should change the icons and change the name to make the unofficial Signal snap look properly unofficial. Should protect the application from Signal's controlling tendencies as well as their open source code can and should be redistributed freely.
yuuu 4y ago
The Signal developers don't even provide RPM- or AppImage-based installers, despite being able to create the latter in their build pipeline. I'm never donating anything to them because I'm convinced they're lazy and stupid.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  The Signal developers have the freedom to distribute their application in any way they see fit. If they don't want to support your machine then that's their choice. You're free to set up a fork if you want to see change in this regard, as long as you don't violate their trademark and terms of service. I don't use gnome-calculator on Windows because there's no official Windows distribution available for that platform. That doesn't make the Gnome devs lazy, that's just my preferences conflicting with theirs. You're not entitled to support for your preferred distribution unless you sign some kind of (probably expensive) support contract and other people not working for you for free doesn't make them lazy or stupid.
  - yuuu 4y ago
    Just read this since you aren't familiar with the context: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1758 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1758
    - jeroenhd 4y ago
      I'm well aware of Signal's history with non-official distribution and alternative clients. How they distribute their official binaries is still up to them, though. They clearly don't care enough about AppImages (and other means of distribution) to put any effort into them.
      - yuuu 4y ago
        It being up to them and them being stupid and lazy are not mutually exclusive. Your points stand, and my points stand.
kristjank 4y ago
It sure looks like Signal is trying to actively sabotage itself, and Canonical is happy to help.
FullyFunctional 4y ago
This is my semi-regular message where I decry that Keybase Chat (https://keybase.io https://keybase.io) isn't more popular. It's cross-platform, fully E2EE, has the best identity solution of all, open source, doesn't depend on phone numbers, etc etc, isn't mar In my experience, it beat all the alternatives I have used (incl. Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, and especially Apple's Messenger). The only caveat is that Keybase.io got acquired by Zoom (thus, it's Zoom now) and the service is at the continued mercy of Zoom. However it's been a year (years?) and it's still working great.
- ikiris 4y ago
  It's also basically dead after the acquisition. Look at the github history.
cyberphobe 4y ago
noasaservice 4y ago
Reminder for you Ubuntu people: Snap is closed source garbage ware, with MS Windows forced updating and the terribleness of being 10x slower.... So here's how to "Snap-Off" your system https://haydenjames.io/remove-snap-ubuntu-22-04-lts/ https://haydenjames.io/remove-snap-ubuntu-22-04-lts/
squarefoot 4y ago
I'm not a Signal user, however given what is the target audience of Signal, i can totally understand the maintainers not wanting unofficial packages around, even more so if surrounded by a snap environment they have no way to check for security. Now, unleashing lawyers as first move is debatable for sure, and I won't be the one who defends that move, so probably some more insight from Signal should be expected.
johnisgood 4y ago
Oh God... I am not going to repeat myself. To put it briefly: Snap Store is Canonical's Play Store.

407 points by hagen2022 4y ago

I really despise the idea/existence of app stores. Why can't a publishers website be their store front, then from that site, you can run (or "download"/"install" if you must) the app? Technically it looks like that would actually work [1]. They could host the `.snap` file. Although I'm sure snap will add friction to this (as in, not simple let you open and click "Install") from a downloaded snap file, as they probably want you to use their app store. 1. https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70#issuecomment-1292163793 https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70#iss...

martinmunk 4y ago
Are they, technically, any different than APT repositories? Don't get me wrong. I hate Snap much more than the next guy, but the idea of keeping a repository so you can go look for, and discover, stuff that is supposedly also vetted by someone is nice. The issue is, when an app store is a monopoly and not standardized. APT repositories is, in my eyes, an example of "the good" type of app store.
- Tsiklon 4y ago
  Technically not really, instead of packaging the software into a .deb it’s shipping a container and metadata to get it working. I think the rub here is that the maintainers of the signal snap can't reuse the work they’ve already put in to this and offer it elsewhere in another snap repository as there’s no other snap repository possible
- tapoxi 4y ago
  Flatpak solves this problem, unlike Snap (but like APT) anyone can run a repository. There is Flathub as a nice default but it isn't official.
  - Octabrain 4y ago
    I always say that one of the problems in the Canonical's strategy with Snap is not to provide the backend allowing everyone to set their own "store". Then, Canonical would focus in the added value of their one, with things such as a payment processor, malware scanning, ci/cd integration, stats, etc making it appealing. Flatpak allows this, but, in the other hand, despite I exclusively use Flatpak these days, I dislike the fact that is not focused in CLI apps but desktop ones instead.
  - johnisgood 4y ago
    There is a proprietary piece of software that is released on Snap Store only. They used to release a .deb file. When they did that, it was as easy as extracting the files from the .deb file and run the executable. With Snap, however, it is much more of a hassle to do the same thing. It is possible (at least for the one I have in mind), but yeah, no.
edent 4y ago
Because that doesn't solve the discovery problem. People want an easy way to find new things. Whether that's `apt search` or Google Play.
- timtom39 4y ago
  Yea, don't bucket Linux users in with typical Google and Apple store users. I need no help "discovering" software through some companies arbitrary filter. I can use google, github, hacker news, etc.
- vaidhy 4y ago
  I do need t think discovery is the same problem any more. You can search for self hosted snaps about as well as you can within the snap store. However, trust can be an issue which has solutions that come at the cost of speed and storage.
- danuker 4y ago
  For discovery, there's also GitHub, GitLab, Hacker News and so on.
- seabird 4y ago
  Do Linux users installing software actually have a "discovery problem"? The usual solution is to go to google.com and find in-depth information on the options available for a given class of software, with user reviews, notes on strengths and shortcomings, etc. I have never visited a store first on a desktop OS, and even average users of mobile OS' that I know will fire up Google first if they're actually trying to find the best implementation of X app. I don't know a single person that has anything good to say about the Windows app store. The Year of the Linux Desktop isn't now, and it may never happen. Even if it does, I don't think any of the hypothetical "normie" Linux users would really care for it all that much. Trying to be the devil's advocate for things like the Snap store benefits a group of users that doesn't exist in any timeline at the expense of current users in this timeline.
  - freedomben 4y ago
    Absolutely, when I want to find something, the first thing I will do is DNF search. It's amazing how much you can find and so quickly. It sorts in a smart way as well, where exact matches will appear first, then partial matches on the package name, and then metadata. This makes it quick and easy to see if what I want is there. When searching on Google, I have to look through a bunch of crappy results from SEO optimized crap. Then when I find something that looks interesting, I have to see if it's packaged for Fedora or not. If not, then I have to hunt down either a GitHub page or look for a RPM file or a flat pack or app image. I won't use a snap even if it's the only distribution method. There's also a very convenient way of checking for popularity, which doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad pic, but if the package is popular enough that somebody has packaged it for Fedora and maintains the package, there's a very high chance that it will work as needed. If you don't currently check the apt or DNF repos first, I would definitely recommend doing so.
ifeeltriedboss 4y ago
And if you wanted to install 10 apps, then you'd have to visit 10 web pages, search for the file and then install? No, leave this for Windows.
- timtom39 4y ago
  You don't already do this for Linux? :( A new Linux setup already requires me to visit a bunch of sites and find .debs. Chrome, Signal, Edge, Visual Studio Code, Slack, etc. I don't really trust random unofficial maintainers in snap store and all of the above is required for my work.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    Don't most distribution repos already have all those already included with the "main" package management system?
  - ifeeltriedboss 4y ago
    I just write flatpak install chrome and the machine is like OK /s
  - chpatrick 4y ago
    Depends on the distro, I can just install all of those directly with Nix.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  > No, leave this for Windows. This hasn't been the case on Windows for years now.
- forgotpwd16 4y ago
  It isn't impossible to have both. An app store that is a registry pointing to packages/files hosted by the developer. And since you mentioned Windows, that's exactly how choco and winget work.
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
For me, it's updates... I don't want popups telling me to update software every few days, and then opening a webpage, downloading a snap/deb/whatever, installing it again, with sudo passwords and all that,... and then open another app, another popup, another site, another .deb... It feels like windows. I want a centralized "update" feature, that will do all that for me. This can be done by signal adding its own repo, but it's a pain to add a per-app repo, if the app can be on the central (distribution-managed) one, especially if it's a popular app.
- syntaxing 4y ago
  Not sure if your post was satire, but isn’t everything you mentioned doable with apt already? Signal already has an official apt repo so all you need to do is the standard apt upgrade and everything including signal would be updated.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    Read the comment above mine: > I really despise the idea/existence of app stores. > Why can't a publishers website be their store front, then from that site, you can run (or "download"/"install" if you must) the app?
  - treis 4y ago
    The problem with that is now you've given a 3rd party power to update your system in any way that they want. Which is fine when it's just signal but less ideal when it's 20-30 randomish companies of varying degrees of trustworthiness. The point behind flatpaks et. al. is sandboxing applications so that they can be safely updated automatically.
    - _-david-_ 4y ago
      I don't use apt but I think you can use the pinning feature in apt and only allow the Signal application from Signal's repo. It doesn't solve all problems since they could add dependencies from other repos, but at least it is partly stops them from adding their own dependencies in their repo.
chriswarbo 4y ago
Ideally it would be handled like BitTorrent/Magnet/IPFS: - Links resolve, and data can be fetched, as long as anyone is hosting it (regardless of who) - Anyone (including big orgs/corps) can provide a curated lists/search for links they vouch for - Removing something from a list doesn't affect anyone's ability to fetch and use it; only whether they see the link in that particular search/list UI

mort96 4y ago

This is not a good look. The snap has been gone for almost a month, with seemingly no information given to the maintainer or users about why, except a belated "we removed it for policy reasons" 21 days ago. And if this happens to maintainers associated with Snapcrafters, imagine how you're treated if you're just some random person or company who maintains your own snap. This is the sort of reason why people are concerned about an ecosystem where Canonical has 100% of the control of the only distribution mechanism. I suppose this is just a confirmation of the legitimacy of those fears.

mort96 4y ago
Another perspective: Canonical's IoT offering, Ubuntu Core, is based around the idea that Canonical provides the base operating system, and you provide your software as a snap, uploaded to Canonical's snap store, and you push updates to your IoT product by pushing an updated snap to the store. That has always rubbed me the wrong way, but "Canonical will just delete the snap and not respond to questions about why" wasn't even something I had considered as a possibility before.
- xp84 4y ago
  To be fair, as long as you don’t issue a DMCA takedown for your own software, this particular case is not a good example of something to be worried about in that situation. There may be plenty of other concerns, of course.
- sarnowski 4y ago
  And last time I checked, they refused to let you use your own signing keys. Means you do not get end to end trust for your own bits but need to rely on Canonical that they don’t screw up - with the obvious effect of strong vendor lock-in as I cannot sign and run my own bits.
  - mort96 4y ago
    Yeah, that's the kind of stuff which has made Ubuntu Core rub me the wrong way before this. I'm a much bigger fan of Yocto[1], with something like Rauc[2] for the software upgrade system. It's more work to get going, but in the end, you're in control of your product, not Canonical. [1]: https://www.yoctoproject.org/ https://www.yoctoproject.org/ [2]: https://rauc.io/ https://rauc.io/

TheRealPomax 4y ago

After reading the thread, I still have no idea why it got removed, so: why did it get removed? What part(s) of the snap policies did they violate, and how is it possible that even something doesn't charge $100 a year before you can even publish a snap doesn't even notify the maintainers that their app got removed? Just because you run an app store doesn't mean Apple and Google's opaque refusal system is the part you should take inspiration from, too.

turblety 4y ago
No one knows [1], except Snap. Not even the maintainers :( Snaps response [2] seems to be: > I understand the sudden move of signal-desktop can be disruptive for people wishing to install this package. Just to confirm the reason for the absence - Snap Store administrators had to remove the snap in accordance with our policies. We hope to have it back shortly. 1. https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70#issuecomment-1287895145 https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70#iss... 2. https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-happened-to-signal-desktop/32119/4 https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-happened-to-signal-desktop...
- Y_Y 4y ago
  That's funny, because in accordance with my policy I delete snap immediately after install.
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    It's standard policy for me to uninstall snapd after every Ubuntu install
    - bravetraveler 4y ago
      My standard policy is to avoid Canonical
      - Spivak 4y ago

sschueller 4y ago

To any app dev. If your app is only available via snap I will not be using it. Also certbot, shame on you for removing the Debian repository in favor of snap.

pooper 4y ago
> Also certbot, shame on you for removing the Debian repository in favor of snap. Yes, this deserves shaming. > https://certbot.eff.org/instructions https://certbot.eff.org/instructions > The Certbot snap supports the x86_64, ARMv7, and ARMv8 architectures. While we strongly recommend that most users install Certbot through the snap, you can find alternate installation instructions here. Shame on you, certbot and EFF. Of all people, I expected better from you. For my Fedora people, looks like we can directly install with `dnf`. Debian aptitude people should prefer the same. Available Packages Name : certbot Version : 1.30.0 Release : 1.fc36 Architecture : noarch Size : 44 k Source : certbot-1.30.0-1.fc36.src.rpm Repository : updates Summary : A free, automated certificate authority client URL : https://pypi.python.org/pypi/certbot License : Apache-2.0 Description : certbot is a free, automated certificate authority that aims : to lower the barriers to entry for encrypting all HTTP traffic on the internet.
- mikepurvis 4y ago
  Debian has it too: https://packages.debian.org/sid/certbot https://packages.debian.org/sid/certbot And even Ubuntu: https://packages.ubuntu.com/kinetic/certbot https://packages.ubuntu.com/kinetic/certbot Though I guess there's a risk that eventually the Ubuntu package becomes a facade package like Chrome is, that has no content but uses a postinstall script to grab you the snap instead.
  - jaapz 4y ago
    versions in debian and ubuntu repo's have a tendency to lag behind, current version seems to be 1.30.x while in debian and ubuntu repos it's on 1.29.x

simion314 4y ago

It is not clear to me if the maintainers are the developers or a third party person not affiliated with the devs.

ryukafalz 4y ago

This kind of thing is vindicating for those of us who stayed away from snaps precisely because the server side is proprietary and the snap tooling only supports Canonical's centralized store. A centralized service being the only option for software distribution is too large of a failure point, no matter who's running it.

jeroenhd 4y ago
The application went down because of a DMCA request. The same would've happened with APT repositories and other distribution systems in that the "official" source would disappear. You could've installed it from an alternative source were that to happen to a simple repository but you still can now. I have plenty of gripes with Snap but this time the Signal team is to blame.
- cyberphobe 4y ago
  Signal never gave canonical permission to distribute a binary called Signal. Canonical just went ahead and did it anyway. How is this Signal’s fault?
  - monocasa 4y ago
    DMCA isn't a mechanism for trademark disputes.
    - cyberphobe 4y ago
      Then complain about that. Honestly given the existing set of miscommunications about what happened, I’m not sure it is an actual DMCA request
  - loloquwowndueo 4y ago
    Canonical distributes the snap in the sense of “owns the store and infrastructure” but the publisher is not canonical - it’s snapcrafters which is a group of community volunteers.
  - 4y ago

foolswisdom 4y ago

What is this response? Still no indication anyone has been contacted with the reason why it was removed, only that "in the future we will let you know if we remove something, sorry". https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-happened-to-signal-desktop/32119/12 https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/what-happened-to-signal-desktop...

he_is_legend 4y ago
"This is due to a DMCA takedown request coming from people representing Signal. Canonical is currently working with Signal to resolve this issue."

cercatrova 4y ago

On any fresh Ubuntu install including on WSL, I always `apt uninstall snap` and never worry about it again. I will never use snap and will continue to use apt for packages, thank you very much.

inetknght 4y ago
> I always `apt uninstall snap` and never worry about it again. Might want to double-check if/when there's some automatic update that decides to reinstall Snap

ifeeltriedboss 4y ago

I wonder why Signal opposes flatpak so much. As far as I remember, they insist on sticking to .deb package only [1]. Seems like switching to Flatpak would benefit a lot of people now because of Steam Deck-induced Flatpak popularity [2]. 1. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1639 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1639 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/tiidh8/comment/i1emhsm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/tiidh8/comment/i1em...

cmeacham98 4y ago
There is a Signal flatpak (https://github.com/flathub/org.signal.Signal https://github.com/flathub/org.signal.Signal), I'm unsure if the Signal devs are involved in it or not.
- akvadrako 4y ago
  I've been using it for about a year - seems fine.
  - hackerbrother 4y ago
    Me too. Would appreciate it being first-party though.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  It is not official. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1639 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1639 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-desktop-for-non-apt-linux-distributions/1356 https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-desktop-for-non-a...

ilaksh 4y ago

Well, I have been using Ubuntu for many years. This kind of thing, centralizing packages and removing one without explanation etc makes me think I should move on. I suppose the alternative is to switch to Debian? Or maybe there is something totally different that is becoming popular that I don't know about yet?

biasedestimate 4y ago
Just switch to Mint, it is as stable / easy as Ubuntu and 100% snap free.
siwatanejo 4y ago
As for me, I'll keep ubuntu but I'll start using flatpak instead of snap.
- commoner 4y ago
  It's easy to install Flatpak on your current Linux distro. Flatpak officially supports 36 distros. Some of them already have Flatpak built in, while others (including Ubuntu) require just a few minutes to set up Flatpak and Flathub: https://flatpak.org/setup/ https://flatpak.org/setup/
CoastalCoder 4y ago
Discussed recently in another story, but many including me like Pop!_OS as a better version of Ubuntu.
- ilaksh 4y ago
  I tried Pop before, eventually ran into a compatibility issue. Also it's based on Ubuntu.
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    I can't speak to the compatibility issues you hit, since that's obviously hardware specific. Sorry I wasn't clear enough about the Ubuntu connection. Pop!_OS is based on Ubuntu, but Pop!_OS provides non-snap packages for (AFAIK) everything. So for me, Pop!_OS is like Ubuntu, minus the user-hostility.

warent 4y ago

This is really sad because I've become a huge Ubuntu fanboy in the last year, but this behavior is unacceptable. They need to fix their processes and be more dev friendly or they're going to lose allies.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
timbit42 4y ago
Many Ubuntu users have moved to either Linux Mint, which is still based on Ubuntu, or Debian, neither of which have Snaps by default.

politelemon 4y ago

This issue was also raised on their GitHub https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70 https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/issues/70

dekhn 4y ago

snap is garbage. For a while when it first came out, it had newer packages than Ubuntu. But then, over time, most of the packages went stale. Every snap I install requires --classic (which overrides the sandbox). I wish they would just kill it.

SlackingOff123 4y ago

I'm being slightly offtopic here but I really dislike how slow Firefox is to launch since it became a snap package as a default on Ubuntu 22.04. I know I can uninstall the Firefox snap and install it through APT, but I imagine more and more packages will become snaps by default on Ubuntu. And finding out now that it's possible that snaps are part of a walled garden, just like app/play stores are is really bumming me out. I'm rather new to linux and Ubuntu is the distro I'm most familiar with and I also really like using KDE. So I'm wondering if it's feasible to continue using a Ubuntu based distribution while completely avoiding Snaps or should I just switch distros (maybe to another one that runs KDE).

ridgered4 4y ago
I use linux mint which is still ubuntu based and doesn't use snaps.
j33zusjuice 4y ago
They all run KDE, even when they don’t provide it out of the box. You can just install it and use KDE instead of Gnome. I’m a big fan of Fedora. I primarily work on RHEL systems, though, so I’m biased because it’s what I’m used to using.
- freedomben 4y ago
  I'm also a big fan of Fedora and can recommend. Fedora does things a little differently that will take a bit of getting used to, but all in all it's mostly the same. You'll need to learn to use dnf instead of apt, and system files (like config files) will sometimes be in a different place (as Fedora follows FHS more closely, similar to Arch), but it's really not too bad. I've never run the KDE spin of Fedora, but from what I understand it's popular and well maintained so shouldn't be an issue.
- floren 4y ago
  > They all run KDE, even when they don’t provide it out of the box. You can just install it and use KDE instead of Gnome. Ubuntu has a lot to answer for, and planting the idea that you have to completely reinstall your OS to switch to a different window manager is right up there at the top. Kubuntu, Xubuntu, god those were terrible ideas.

JTbane 4y ago

boycott Snap!

rubyist5eva 4y ago
boycott Signal actually, they are the ones that sent a silly takedown notice

mesebrec 4y ago

Signal Snap Maintainer here, this is because of a DMCA takedown request from lawyers representing Signal. Canonical is currently working with them to clear things up. Canonical's communication to me was initially lacking due to issues in their process, the process has been amended and I'm back in the loop again.

sschueller 4y ago
Yet another reason not to use Signal. The correct behavior would have been for signal to offer an official snap or to contact the maintainer. Instead they send their legal team...
- award_ 4y ago
  What are your others? I use signal alot personally and haven't had too many issues.
  - sschueller 4y ago
    - Still need a phone number - They refuse to post the app on f-droid (directly) - No 3rd party clients allowed on their servers. - Crypto thing they attempted - I don't trust Moxie, he rubs me the wrong way.
    - junon 4y ago
      Agreed on all counts, especially the last one.
    - artificialLimbs 4y ago
      - Backups? lol...
    - aeturnum 4y ago
      None of these suggest you shouldn't use signal - or that it's not meeting its goal of secure communication (except the last one I suppose). Signal is not without flaws as you say, but if you have a phone number and can access a binary, there's every reason to believe it will securely and privately transmit your messages. You are also, ofc, free to fork their client and run your own service (as others have done).

JonathanBeuys 4y ago

Is there any reason to have snapd installed on your system? I am currently setting up a new laptop and so far my plan is to not install it. Anybody here who uses it? Care to tell why?

timbit42 4y ago
If you remove Snaps from Ubuntu, how do you install apps that are not in their regular repo, for example, Firefox? Do you sideload them?
- JonathanBeuys 4y ago
  Ubuntu is based on Debian, and Debian has Firefox in their repos. Does Ubuntu remove it?

daitangio 4y ago

My two cents: ubuntu snap daemon is not a good idea at all. "Snap is a magnificent idea with a still immature realization.[...] The overall user experience with Snaps on Ubuntu is frustrating: several apps won’t start when installed as snaps, others run weird, others take really long time to start. As an example: Telegram as snap takes around 51 sec to be operative, Telegram installed as binary starts in 1,5 sec." see https://cialu.net/how-to-disable-and-remove-completely-snaps-in-ubuntu-linux/ https://cialu.net/how-to-disable-and-remove-completely-snaps... Also I was never happy with snap because unable to full control when software will be upgraded (and why). It was the main reason I stopped to use it, after Ubuntu20 make snap a default install complex to remove: https://gioorgi.com/2021/ubuntu-20-failed-me/ https://gioorgi.com/2021/ubuntu-20-failed-me/

undoware 4y ago

"I can't believe they gatekept MY package," says user who enthusiastically downloaded WalledGarden Distro. cf https://twitter.com/cavalorn/status/654934442549620736?lang=en https://twitter.com/cavalorn/status/654934442549620736?lang=...

lxe 4y ago

DMCA takedowns need to go away forever. What an idiotic implementation of the law. If someone is claiming theft, they have to at least provide proof. Imagine if I asked police to give me my neighbor's car, as I'm claiming it as mine, and they would have to immediately comply before investigating if my claim has merit?

lxe 4y ago

How in the world did a walled garden ecosystem like Snap manage to embed itself so deeply into Linux culture? There needs to be a user and industry revolt against Snap for this sort of shenanigans.

luckylion 4y ago
You want a revolt against snap for ... Signal sending DMCA takedowns?
- johnisgood 4y ago
  No... there are many reasons to revolt against snap. That, and software that gets released on Snap Store only is definitely not worth using. Sorry for not having elaborated as to why snap sucks, but I have written so many comments on it already. I may look them up and bookmark them for future reference.
jeroenhd 4y ago
The snap distribution is unofficial. The Signal team only provides .deb files for Linux (seemingly built for Ubuntu Xenial) and any other distribution method on Linux is strictly done by volunteers. If Signal is willing to leverage the DMCA to take down the Snap package, they could just as easily take down any other unofficial repository. If you wish to solve this problem, write a letter to your favourite American legislator to protest the stupid way the DMCA is set up or contact Signal legal and tell them their use of the DMCA is bad for the open ecosystem that they operate in. Someone freely choosing to grab an unofficial version of Signal from the store of their preference isn't the problem here.
b112 4y ago
The same was systemd did? The force of a multi-billion dollar company, where profit is far more important than doing it right? Linux and OSS software became what it is, became the stable, secure powerhouse it is, literally dominating every aspect of computing, because profit was originally less important. Look at Debian, which only ships when ready, and never ever to a fixed deadline. Yet today, almost all private corps take and take and take, without every contributiong code and workers back. Look at Ubuntu, a distro which literally could not even remotely exist without Debian, from which most of it is derived, and rebased to constantly. To Ubuntu, a great leech of the OSS world, it is more important to give a crappy experience(snaps), than use Firefox LTS, for example. Good grief.

a-dub 4y ago

of course they are going after unofficial distribution channels, it's signal, their whole schtick is owning everything end to end so that people can trust their brand.

numeromancer 4y ago

> > Snap Store administrators had to remove the snap in accordance with our policies. > > Thank you for providing an official answer. An officious answer is more like it. Note the deliberate evasiveness (which policy? Mind your own business.). This is to be expected from an organization one of whose "policies" is "we are going to update apps on 'your' desktop whether you like it or not, luzer."

bobmaxup 4y ago

It is interesting how quickly this discussion moved from, "Never use Ubuntu or Snap" to "Never use Signal"

jethro_tell 4y ago
IDK, Signal has been getting more hostile to users over time. In the coming months, when they drop the sms functionality I will drop signal forever. That's pretty crazy because I've been using it since it was red-phone in the early 2010's with my samsung galaxy2.

miniBill 4y ago

... Oh Snap

jeroenhd 4y ago

Quite something for an open source project to use DMCA of all mechanisms to remove an unofficial distribution, but alright, maybe there's a trademark issue. Sounds like someone should change the icons and change the name to make the unofficial Signal snap look properly unofficial. Should protect the application from Signal's controlling tendencies as well as their open source code can and should be redistributed freely.

yuuu 4y ago

The Signal developers don't even provide RPM- or AppImage-based installers, despite being able to create the latter in their build pipeline. I'm never donating anything to them because I'm convinced they're lazy and stupid.

jeroenhd 4y ago
The Signal developers have the freedom to distribute their application in any way they see fit. If they don't want to support your machine then that's their choice. You're free to set up a fork if you want to see change in this regard, as long as you don't violate their trademark and terms of service. I don't use gnome-calculator on Windows because there's no official Windows distribution available for that platform. That doesn't make the Gnome devs lazy, that's just my preferences conflicting with theirs. You're not entitled to support for your preferred distribution unless you sign some kind of (probably expensive) support contract and other people not working for you for free doesn't make them lazy or stupid.
- yuuu 4y ago
  Just read this since you aren't familiar with the context: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1758 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1758
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    I'm well aware of Signal's history with non-official distribution and alternative clients. How they distribute their official binaries is still up to them, though. They clearly don't care enough about AppImages (and other means of distribution) to put any effort into them.
    - yuuu 4y ago
      It being up to them and them being stupid and lazy are not mutually exclusive. Your points stand, and my points stand.

kristjank 4y ago

It sure looks like Signal is trying to actively sabotage itself, and Canonical is happy to help.

FullyFunctional 4y ago

This is my semi-regular message where I decry that Keybase Chat (https://keybase.io https://keybase.io) isn't more popular. It's cross-platform, fully E2EE, has the best identity solution of all, open source, doesn't depend on phone numbers, etc etc, isn't mar In my experience, it beat all the alternatives I have used (incl. Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, and especially Apple's Messenger). The only caveat is that Keybase.io got acquired by Zoom (thus, it's Zoom now) and the service is at the continued mercy of Zoom. However it's been a year (years?) and it's still working great.

ikiris 4y ago
It's also basically dead after the acquisition. Look at the github history.

cyberphobe 4y ago

noasaservice 4y ago

Reminder for you Ubuntu people: Snap is closed source garbage ware, with MS Windows forced updating and the terribleness of being 10x slower.... So here's how to "Snap-Off" your system https://haydenjames.io/remove-snap-ubuntu-22-04-lts/ https://haydenjames.io/remove-snap-ubuntu-22-04-lts/

squarefoot 4y ago

I'm not a Signal user, however given what is the target audience of Signal, i can totally understand the maintainers not wanting unofficial packages around, even more so if surrounded by a snap environment they have no way to check for security. Now, unleashing lawyers as first move is debatable for sure, and I won't be the one who defends that move, so probably some more insight from Signal should be expected.

johnisgood 4y ago

Oh God... I am not going to repeat myself. To put it briefly: Snap Store is Canonical's Play Store.