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GeForce RTX 40 Series
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoI find the fact that they have two 4080's with very different specs but with only a difference in memory size indicated very frustrating.
- sidewndr46 4y agoSounds like Intel SKUs, I think I could get some part time contract work just explaining the difference between two SKUs to folks.
- radicalbyte 4y agoThe 12GB is the 3070 replacement, they've just changed the label to try to hide the price hike.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoBut then they'll also create a 4070 here. And then a 4070 ti, and 4080 ti, and then.... But that's another complaint. The 4080 is a different problem entirely - not enough names. Somehow they have too many names but also not enough so they can only differentiate via GB.
- kuschku 4y ago4080 vs 4085? or maybe 4075?
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoYou can take your pick - it can be another multiple of 10, or it can be "ti", or "super".
- crthpl 4y agoTheir Performance section shows that the 12GB is 50%-150% faster than the 3080 Ti (so better than 3090 Ti!), and it also has more cuda cores and memory than the 3070.
- kcb 4y agoYea but that's how new tech works. If the price of every new generation of hardware scaled linearily with the increase in performance we'd be needing mortgages for a new PC/GPU.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoI think typically the XX70 has been in line with the xx90 TI of the last generation, so this is in fact a better improvement over that. It's still dumb though to have two xx80's.
- paulmd 4y agoThat's how new tech worked in the Moore's Law era. Times are changing and you're observing the evidence of that. And yes moore's law notionally died a long time ago, but it's been able to be hidden in various ways... and things are getting past the point where it can be hidden anymore. Node costs are way way up these days, TSMC is expensive as hell and everyone else is at least 1 node behind. Samsung 5nm is worse than TSMC N7 for instance, and TSMC N7 is 5+ years old at this point. Samsung 8nm (a 10+ node) used for Ampere was cheap as hell, that's why they did it, same for Turing, 12FFN is a rebranded 16nm non-plus with a larger reticle. People booed the low-cost offering and wanted something on a competitive, performant, efficient node... and now NVIDIA hopped to a very advanced customized N5P node (4N - not to be confused with TSMC N4, it is not N4, it is N5P with a small additional optical shrink etc) and people are back to whining about the cost. If they keep cost and power down by making the die size smaller... people whine they're stonewalling progress / selling small chips at big chip prices. Finally we get a big chip on a competitive node, this is much closer to the edge of what the tech can deliver, and... people whine about the TDP and the cost. Sadly, you don't get the competitive node, giant chip, and low prices all at the same time, that's not how the world works. Pick any two. AMD is making some progress at shuffling the memory controller off to separate dies, which helps, but generally they're probably going to be fairly expensive too... they're launching the top of the stack first which is a similar Turing-style "capture the whales while the inventory of last-gen cards and miner inventory sells through" strategy. That likely implies decently high prices too. There's nothing that can really be done about TDP either - thermal density is creeping up on these newer nodes too, and when you make a big chip at reasonable clocks the power gets high these days. AMD is expected to come in at >400W TBP on their products too.
- galkk 4y agoI didn't buy 3090, and speedwise it seems to be good idea
- capableweb 4y agoSame here. Bought the 2080ti when it launched, skipped 30xx and seems like a good time to upgrade now :)
- jrimbault 4y agoI got a GTX1080 in december 2016. It's still going strong.
- skunkworker 4y agoI'm running a 1080Ti I picked up used in early 2020 and threw on a kraken g12 with an AIO, it dropped temps down to a max of 61c and increased FPS on most games by 30%.
- lordleft 4y agoIt's been a while since I've updated my GPU (I have an RTX 2060 XC Black), so I'm out of the loop: what's the gpu market like now? I'm assuming we're seeing less fewer GPUs being purchased for crypto. Are prices normal now?
- louhike 4y agoIt’s not quite normal yet but it is far lower.
- stu2010 4y agoMSRPs for a given market segment seem to have permanently increased significantly. This generation is expected to be available at this higher MSRP, however.
- whoomp12342 4y ago30 series on sale, over supply. Still more pricey than I care for though.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoWhat is even "normal"? Even excluding the crypto craze MSRP has increased dramatically over the last few generations.
- izacus 4y agoNo, the prices are still pretty high (although not insane anymore). They're probably not going down. On the other hand, these GPUs are very very good for gaming - with DLSS, most of modern games will run at high details at 4K and look like something that scifi shows dreamed of just 10 years back.
- napolux 4y agoMaybe we'll be able to buy them at a reasonable price soon.
- Victerius 4y agoWith Ethereum's transition to PoS and the crypto crash, the only demand bottlenecks I can foresee are scalpers and hungry gamers. Indeed, we may see a repeat of what happened with the PS5, when finding a product from a store was impossible because scalpers had bought them all.
- napolux 4y agoCould be. Here in Italy is still hard to buy a PS5. I was smart enough to pre-order mine and score other 2 consoles (for friends, not scalping), but after 2 years that's ridiculous. They're not even on display in shops.
- maeln 4y agoProbably not. Even without the crypto market, the official MSRP of GPU has ballooned over the past few years.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Filligree 4y agoNothing above 24GB? Not much point in upgrading, then. Memory size remains the biggest bottleneck.
- capableweb 4y agoSeems they don't want to eat up market share of their "professional" cards with the consumer cards. Want above 24GB? Better put up money for the data center cards.
- bick_nyers 4y agoJust spend $6k on a Quadro to get 4090 performance but with 48GB VRAM /s
- numlock86 4y agoSame here. 3090 Ti but memory is usually the bottleneck. And workstation GPUs like the A100 are just too expensive ...
- capableweb 4y agoGuess A6000 is in the middle of those two options, comes with 48GB of memory. Not so cheap if you're just using it for gaming, but if you're using your GPU for professional work, could be worth the price.
- numlock86 4y ago€5500 compared to €1200 for just double the memory at the price of less performance is not really worth it in my opinion. > Not so cheap if you're just using it for gaming I am not even sure if there is any recent game that can utilize 24GB of a 3090.
- ShockedUnicorn 4y agoDoes VRChat count as a game? In a very populated instance with 50+ people it can take up to about 20gb of vram. Honestly everything VR takes up huge amounts of vram, it's not possible to run No Man's Sky at max settings with only 8gb vram, and you still might need to dial down some settings with 12gb vram. This is with a Quest 2, I'm guessing headsets with higher resolution will be even more demanding.
- Arrath 4y agoLooking forward to seeing some realistic benchmarks against hardware people might actually have, not just the 3080/3090Ti My 2070 Super is still getting me along pretty well, we'll see if an upgrade is worth it. E: At those MSRP's posted by other commenters....not likely, goddamn.
- kuschku 4y agoAaaand the page has disappeared again, did someone manage to screenshot or archive it? EDIT: Ah, archive.org has it: http://web.archive.org/web/20220920152158/https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/ http://web.archive.org/web/20220920152158/https://www.nvidia...
- placatedmayhem 4y agoLooks like it's back, at least for me. Wayback Machine has a copy, just in case: https://web.archive.org/web/20220920152158/https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220920152158/https://www.nvidi...
- kuschku 4y agoThe German version still says > Ab XXX,XX $ > Verfügbar ab Monat XX. So I believe it'll get removed soon again.
- izacus 4y agoHmm... what happened to memory bus width on 4080s? It seems like they went from 384/320 bit width (on 3080) down to 256/190? Anyone know the story behind it?
- packetlost 4y agoHiding performance compromises for the sake of cost savings in the most difficult to determine/understand way for laymen.
- jlouis 4y agoMuch larger L2 cache on the GPU. The 30xx cards needs a wide bus to feed it, but with the L2 cache on the GPU, you can get away with a smaller bus width (and faster memory on top, things shifted in the last couple of years and DDR6(X) memory is even faster now than it was). Some of this also has to do with what kind of memory configurations you want to offer, as they are tied to the bus width. So if you widen the bus, you are looking at using more memory chips and having more memory. This pushes the price point upward, and you want it to tier somewhere in the middle of it all. One "mistake" on the 30xx (Ampere) series were that the 3080 was much too powerful for its price point, and you couldn't really cram too much more power out above it due to its memory config. With this change, you can introduce a 4080Ti in between the 4080 16Gb and the 4090 as a mid-seasonal upgrade, and widen the bus a bit to satisfy it.
- Tuna-Fish 4y agoThey greatly increased cache sizes, and cut down the bus width. Same what AMD did on RDNA2.
- ihuman 4y agoThe 4080/4090 pages have the prices. 4080 12GB: $900 4080 16GB: $1200 4090: $1600
- blagie 4y agoThat specs make it seem like these wouldn't be quite worth it at launch. Ampere specs: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/compare/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/compare/ This looks like a smaller bump than Ampere. 3090 seems cheaper and better than 4080. As people have pointed out, what I'd really like is more / upgradeable RAM. NVidia is trying to not compete with their higher-end cards, but ML tools are increasingly consumer.
- omegalulw 4y agoI would like to see independent benchmarks for 4090 before making judgements. "2-4x" as claimed over 3090 Ti is not a small bump.
- Jackson__ 4y ago2-4X in video games, when using DLSS with their new frame interpolation technique. It kinda feels like cheating.
- noahtallen 4y agoIf it’s not visually distinguishable, it won’t matter. I hear recent versions of DLSS are very good at 4k despite earlier versions having some bad artifacts. I guess we’ll have to wait for the reviews :)
- Jackson__ 4y agoI guess it depends on your definition if distinguishable, but as someone who has dabbled with most ML frame interpolation techniques, this appears just as artifact ridden. https://i.imgur.com/9U9HIpH.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/9U9HIpH.jpeg
- unixhero 4y agoIt seems that they are not catering to what the consumer marketing wants anylonger.
- rexf 4y ago> They're powered by the ultra-efficient NVIDIA Ada Lovelace architecture Why is this megacorp using this famous person's name for marketing? Does the 40XX series have anything to do with Ada Lovelace at all? (Yes I know Ada Lovelace passed away a long time ago so the name is probably free to use without paying her estate.)
- Ekaros 4y agoI love how the name is wrong part and not the insane statement of ultra-efficiency when talking about multi-hundred watt power consumption.
- capableweb 4y agoBecause that's the way they have named their architectures since... For as long as I can remember. Previous generations include: Ampere, Volta, Turing, Kepler, Fermi and more.
- rexf 4y agoah ok. Thanks, I didn't realize they used (deceased) famous people for all their architectures
- mgdlbp 4y agoTo be pedantic, it was units of temperature at first, with a well-chosen segue of Curie to the superset of other names. This does mark a departure from a convention of only single surnames, and one could surmise as to why that decision was made. Though one might also consult a Falsehoods list, since 'Ada Lovelace' was never $first_name $last_name to begin with, having been derived from something like /(Augusta Ada|Ada Augusta) King \(née Byron\), Countess of Lovelace/
- thesandlord 4y agoNvidia has been using famous Mathematicians and Scientists for their card architecture for a long time (Kepler, Pascal, etc) Even whole companies are named after famous people that have nothing to do with the company (Tesla, Faraday Future, etc)
- sdenton4 4y agoCompared to the 3090, the 4090 has about 60% more CUDA cores (16k vs 10k), runs at ~2.2GHz (up from 1.4GHz) and eats about an extra 100W of power. Over the last couple weeks, it's been possible to get 3090's on sale for juuuust under $1k (I picked one up after watching the prices come down from like $3k over the last couple years). The 4090 is priced at $1500... (and for me at least would require a new power supply.)
- xbar 4y agoRTX 3090 was $1500 at launch, and was a 50% boost over the previous gen at best. RTX 4090 is $1700 an is asserted to be ~1.9x performance, when taken with salt grain. You can buy a 3090 for $999 today at Best Buy. That's not a bad price per frame. $1700 for the 4090, if 1.9x speed for raster, is not a bad price per frame either. Both are stupid. Anyone spending $2k for video games graphics cards is wasting money in a stupid way: they are big, hot, shipped from far away, and turn into toxic landfill garbage in a matter of years. They mark the worst form of destructive consumerism that late-stage capitalism has produced, on par with leasing a new vehicle every 2 years: both are bad as products that turn into needless waste and both consume energy and produce unnecessary heat. I am definitely going to buy a 4090 on October 12.
- badwolf 4y agoAhh nice! I'm in need of a new spaceheater.
- dougmwne 4y agoI mean it’s getting there. Add this to a best in class desktop processor at 300W and add in all the other power consumption and you are close to the wattage of a hot plate, kettle or small space heater.
- kosma 4y ago
- jeffbee 4y agoThat they are advertising this thing with screenshots from a 15-year-old game tells you everything about the GPU and game market.
- andreime 4y agoRT was added to Quake and (I think) DOOM. With RT those don't run on my machine. That's 30 yo games ... Your comment is kinda weird.
- rejectfinite 4y agoI found this weird. Atleast do Cyberpunk 2077 or something.
- zzixp 4y ago4080 -> $900/1200, 4090 -> $1600 What the hell Nvidia. Post EVGA breakup, this is a bad look. Seems like they're setting MSRP ridiculously high in order to undercut board partners down the line.
- mnd999 4y agoI’ll pass. Needs to be 1/4 of that to be worth considering. You can have a whole PC for less.
- seanp2k2 4y ago>You can have a whole PC for less. Not with even 50% of the FLOPS. The 4090 won't be the best perf/$, but considering how much perf/$ and perf/watt you can get these days, I think it's pretty hard to complain that these are available. If you don't play games, get a Ryzen 5 7600X for $300 with an iGPU more than capable of high-quality desktop computing. You can also get a brand new laptop for $130 right now https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-14-0-laptop-intel-celeron-n4500-4gb-memory-128gb-emmc-star-black/6498803.p?skuId=6498803 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-14-0-laptop-intel-celeron-... , which is $57.37 in 1990 dollars. (according to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ ). The high-end is more expensive than ever, and the low-end is cheaper than ever. The Apple Lisa was $10k in 1983, which is about $30k today. You can get a Boxx Apex with multiple $10k Quadro GV100 GPUs and 8TB SSDs for that money today, or roughly a dozen high-end (but not TOTL) gaming PCs.
- sylens 4y agoI might be priced out of the market when my current rig goes. For the price of a 4080 you could have both consoles or a console and a Steam Deck
- perryizgr8 4y agoYou can get a 3060ti that performs better than both consoles combined. Don't need to go to 40 series if you care about vfm at all.
- 4y ago
- mountainb 4y agoIt seems like they're really emphasizing the difference in RT performance from the previous generation, but I think the gaming market at least will care more about the difference in raw frames and memory size from the previous generation and AMD's offerings. Personally, I like using RT for some single player showpiece games with a 3080 Ti, RT was useless on my 2080, but the games that I play the most do not use RT at all. DLSS is always great on any title that offers it, but again the real issue is that most of the games that people put real time into are the types of games for which RT is irrelevant. Graphical showpiece stuff is just a lot less relevant to the contemporary gaming market than it used to be.
- headwayoldest 4y agoWhile RT is a single player gimmick I mostly turn off, it won't take many more increases like this to make it a very real feature. What will we see when developers start targeting these cards, or their successors?
- izacus 4y agoWhat does "single player gimmick" in your sentences here mean?
- helf 4y agoThe same thing people who say this always mean: “In /my opinion/, this doesn’t add enough to the game experience to justify the performance penalty. Also, my hardware isn’t strong enough to use it. Therefor it’s a gimmick! Herpa derpa!” That may actually be giving too much credit. It’s probably more like “I don’t like it so it’s a gimmick that no one else should enjoy”
- robertlagrant 4y agoDivining people's real motivations is a skill wasted on HN news comments. If you're as good at it as you think you are, you should be brokering multi-billion dollar deals.
- mdorazio 4y ago450 watt TDP? I feel like a crazy person every time a new generation of GPU comes out and raises the bar on power consumption and heat generation. How is this ok?
- paulmd 4y agoDennard Scaling/MOSFET Scaling is over and it's starting to really bite. Power-per-transistor still goes down, but density is going up faster. Meaning an equal-sized chip on an old node vs a new node... the power goes up on the newer chip. Physics is telling you that you need to let the chip "shrink" when you shrink. If you keep piling on more transistors (by keeping the chip the same size) then the power goes up. That's how it works now. If you make the chip even bigger... it goes up a lot. And NVIDIA is increasing transistor count by 2.6x here. Efficiency (perf/w) is still going up significantly, but the chip also pulls more power on top of being more efficient. If that's not acceptable for your use-case, then you'll have to accept smaller chips and slower generational progress. The 4070 and 4060 will still exist if you absolutely don't want to go above 200W. Or you can buy the bigger chips and underclock them (setting a power limit is like two clicks) and run them in the efficiency sweet spot. But, everyone always complains about "NVIDIA won't make big chips, why are they selling small chips at a big-chip price" and now they've finally gone and done a big chip on a modern node, and people are still finding reasons to complain about it. This is what a high-density 600mm2 chip on TSMC N5P running at competitive clockrates looks like, it's a property of the node and not anything in particular that NVIDIA has done here. AMD's chips are on the same node and will be pretty spicy too - rumors are around 400W, for a slightly smaller chip. Again, TDP being more or less a property of the chip size and the node[0], that's what you'd expect. For a given library and frequency and assuming "average" transistor activity: transistor count determines die size, and die size determines TDP. You need to improve performance-per-transistor and that's no longer easy. [0] an oversimplification ofc but still That's the whole point of DLSS/XeSS/Streamline/potentially a DirectX API, get more performance-per-transistor by adding an accelerator unit which "punches above its weight" in some applicable task and pushes the perf/t curve upwards. But, people have whined nonstop about that since day 1 because using inference is a conspiracy from Big GPU to sell more tensor cores, or something, I guess. Surely there is some obvious solution to TAAU sample weighting that doesn't need inference, and it's just that every academic and programmer in the field has agreed not to talk about it for the last 20 years, right?
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago'Access Denied You don't have permission to access "http://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/ http://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series..." on this server. Reference #18.3df06e68.1663689222.96a3b41'
- capableweb 4y agohttps://archive.ph/XQlQU https://archive.ph/XQlQU
- colpabar 4y agoAsk HN: I am still using a 980. What should I get? I do not care at all about having the latest/greatest, I just want an upgrade.
- majortennis 4y agoperhaps a 3080 , maybe 4080 12gb when the price drops a bit ? I'm envious I went form a 970 to 1660ti I'm not sure what my next move is Im usually more comfortable finance wise with 70s than 80s
- sergiotapia 4y agoIt depends on your resolution. If you have a 1080p monitor, look for a great 1080p card. same for 1440p, etc. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html
- Sohcahtoa82 4y agoIMO, get the best 3000-series card you can afford. You might be able to pick up a card that was used for mining super cheap.
- colpabar 4y agoI've considered this, but I'm not sure. Is there any concern about cards used for mining being too "beat up"? They say you shouldn't buy a used car from someone you know was using it for racing. Does that apply to graphics cards used for mining?
- bongobingo1 4y agoApparently mining cards are ok because they suffer a constant load, sometimes run at a capped peak performance (?), vs games which can be very spikey. Whether this is just misdirection thrown around by crypto miners looking at a hole of sunk assets or not, I could not say. Personally I'd just buy new, but I have also probably never spent over 300usd on a card.
- ricardobeat 4y agoLink in English for those abroad: https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/graphics-cards/40-series/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/graphics-cards/40-serie...
- laverya 4y agoYeah, this was remarkably irritating for me here in Austria - if you're going to change the language based on location, please let the user override it. Luckily 'en-gb' is less likely to be overridden than 'en-us'.
- dartdartdart 4y agoStill displayport 1.4 Intel has already moved to 2.0, and AMD is rumored to be supporting displayport 2.0 Would have liked to see this for 40 series, but I guess I will wait to build my first PC
- adrian_b 4y agoIntel has moved to DisplayPort 2.0, but their current product specifications, e.g. for NUC12SNK, say: "DisplayPort 2.0 (1.4 certified)". But I assume that they will get a certification in the future. For Thunderbolt, where it was Intel who did the certifications, many companies have sold motherboards or computers for months or years with non-certified Thunderbolt ports which worked OK, while waiting for the certification.
- debug-desperado 4y agoSeems like we will need this sooner rather than later too with 500hz screens on the horizon. Strange since the new frame interpolation in DLSS 3 might bring us much closer to smooth motion on sample-and-hold displays.
- haunter 4y agoI’m on an 1070 right now and feels like it’s time for upgrading but then I need a new CPU too so a new mobo as well etc. Oh well but always exciting to get a new PC!
- rejectfinite 4y agoSame. 1070ti gang Still works great at 1440p
- phaistra 4y agoMining boom prices without the mining boom.
- Jackson__ 4y ago900$ for a card rumored to be a rebranded 4070 is a pretty steep ask. Note that the 3070 had a launch MSRP of 500$.
- julienchastang 4y agoI’ve been working with NVIDIA GPU VMs of late with the intention of running GPU enabled TensorFlow and PyTorch. I find working with NVIDIA software incredibly frustrating. In particular, installation instructions for CUDA / cuDNN simply do not work. The biggest culprit is missing or incorrectly versioned shared object libraries. Forums are loaded with developers having similar problems never with any viable solution. I’ve had better luck with NVIDIA distributed docker containers. There at least I can make it as far as running GPU enabled TensorFlow sample code.
- ftufek 4y agoI'd recommend using docker or conda environments. Much easier to setup and to replicate.
- bick_nyers 4y agoMy guess is SR-IOV will still be locked to Quadro cards this gen, which is necessary for effectively sharing GPU resources across MULTIPLE VMs.
- survirtual 4y agoI was having this same issue until I just got into the habit of using a conda env. There are community conda repos that make getting all versions of needed libs much simpler (condaforge is one). Then it’s just a matter of managing envs for various projects. Smooth sailing.
- eis 4y agoThe Portal 2 image comparison seems pretty dishonest to me. You can clearly see the graphics details have been reduced in the RTX off version. Check how the outline of the portal or the gun look like for example, completely different textures.
- madamelic 4y agoThey also added a texture pack. Notice how the walls went from concrete to shiny white metal. The window above also changed textures. It's _very_ dishonest.
- Karsteski 4y agoPortal with RTX is gonna be so damn fun. Almost wanna buy a new card card but I already have a 3070 and that'd be a bit of a waste
- oblak 4y agoAt least one guy at AMD is working on a ray traced RTCW, too.
- lvl102 4y agoSadly, people will upgrade even at this price point. Nvidia is in the business of selling the shovels in this age of AI/ML arms race.
- onepointsixC 4y agoThis announcement just shows the need for Intel to offer something competitive in terms of price to performance. These cards are absurdly expensive.
- capableweb 4y agoIntel?! Maybe AMD, but Intel? Besides enterprise (because of other factors than actually good hardware), Intel is pretty much out of this battle.
- scrlk 4y agoIMO AMD and Nvidia have abandoned the sub-$200/budget GPU market, Intel can certainly carve out a price/performance niche here.
- Bilal_io 4y agoThat audience is not the one enraged by Nvidia's pricing from today's announcement. So a better comparison in relation to today's event would be AMD.
- jessfyi 4y agoThese prices are beyond insulting and frankly I'm glad they're going to take a hit competing with the flood of miner cards entering the market. Also note that nothing is preventing Optical Flow Acceleration [0] (and subsequently the DLSS 3.0 models that they claim are exclusive to the 40 series) from running on either 2/3 RTX cards. Just like RTX Voice and other gimmick "exclusives" I expect it to be available to older cards the moment they realize their backlog of 30 series cards aren't clearing as quickly as they thought. They're competing against an over-bloated secondhand market, AMD, Intel, much better integrated GPUs, and comparatively cheaper consoles that maintain sky-high demand with subsidized games via new subscription programs. They're vastly overestimating their brand loyalty (think Microsoft v Sony after the 360) and EVGA's exit makes more sense now than ever. [0] https://developer.nvidia.com/opticalflow-sdk https://developer.nvidia.com/opticalflow-sdk
- stevenlafl 4y agoYou're right, at least for me. Been waiting for a reason to switch, given that 4G decoding capability is available on my AM4 mobo that would give this a further performance boost and available VRAM. NVidia can suck it and go solely target cloud computing - they already dedicated a significant portion of the announcement to just that. Why didn't the fact A) this is extremely lucrative and B) they dominate there already reduce their price for regular consumers? Corporate greed. If I see NVidia cards start shipping in consoles, I'll know they decided to rip us off so they could get great deals for the same hardware to manufacturers. A total middle finger to us PC gamers. I'm getting an AMD vs Intel vibe like I did from years back. I switched then, I'll switch again. /rant
- iLoveOncall 4y ago> These prices are beyond insulting ? There are no prices.
- neogodless 4y agohttps://www.theverge.com/2022/9/20/23362653/nvidia-rtx-4080-4090-price-release-date https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/20/23362653/nvidia-rtx-4080-... RTX 4090 $1,599 RTX 4080 16GB $1,199 RTX 4080 12GB $899
- EugeneOZ 4y agoDLSS 3 is their main "achievement"? Pathetic. Posting "2-4x times faster WITH DLSS" is just cheap cheating. "Good enough to improve Portal and Skyrim" - exciting news in 2022. Also, games demos in 1080p stream... 4k is just must-have for it. Apple can do it, so can you, Nvidia.
- Entinel 4y agoNvidia realized they can charge whatever they want and are taking full advantage of that. Hopefully Intel, AMD and used cards are able to bring them down a peg.
- neogodless 4y agoI'll be on the sidelines waiting to see how this turns out. When there was a monthly income from mining and selling ETH, with payback that could be counted in a few months, insane GPU prices made sense for miners (or combo gamer/miners.) Without that, it's down to gamers with high discretionary income, and how well alternatives are priced. For example, if you can get an RTX 3080 or 3090 for less than $600, you might not consider the RTX 4080 or higher. If AMD releases competitive parts and undercuts their prices (I'd bet on this), these parts will likely take longer to sell, and drop in price. Almost certainly, with Nvidia's overstock of RTX 3000 cards, they simply want the RTX 3000 to look good in comparison, and get sold, while they control the supply of RTX 4000 cards (perhaps only producing a relative trickle until the RTX 3000 are gone.) Then they could adjust prices to meet the market, and again the RTX 4000 "lower" prices will seem better (if only in comparison to the previous prices.) (Disclaimer: I paid $800 for an AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT 12GB, and mined enough ETH to pay it off, and then stopped mining. I wanted it for gaming, but I did not think the price was reasonable.)
- meragrin_ 4y ago> Hopefully Intel, AMD and used cards are able to bring them down a peg. Really? RX 6650 XTs are already in the same price range as RTX 3050s. Nothing has changed. Nothing will change in the short term unless AMD does something really bad for their business.
- LegitShady 4y agowe'll see what AMD announced november 3.
- avereveard 4y agoOh ffs another site using my location instead of my goddamn accept language header to serve content Where are all the good web developer at
- brendaninnis 4y agoI am just hopeful that I will be able to buy my first new video card in over 10 years. Last year I was bored in the hospital with little to do, so I decided it was time to build a new PC after upgrading my last build from 2009 for many years. I was completely out of touch with the parts buying experience and the shortages/price-hikes. I was genuinely baffled when I found out I could not buy a video card from any PC part store. I managed to snag a 2070 super secondhand for a not ridiculous price, and I was lucky for it. I've waited a long time and I'm just excited that I might be able to get a 4070 some time in the new year.
- causi 4y agoNVIDIA has unleashed its next-gen GeForce RTX 4080 series graphics cards that come in 16 GB & 12 GB flavors at $1199 & $899 US pricing. Welp it looks like I'm buying a Series X because fuck that noise. PC gamers get put through hell for the last two years because Nvidia preferred selling to Chinese crypto miners and this is our reward?
- nvllsvm 4y agoWhy not just buy a less powerful GPU? The 4080 is likely far, far more powerful than the series X.
- groovybits 4y agoAs a PC gamer who's slowly losing interest in favor of console gaming... I don't mean to sound ignorant, but how is any GPU comparable to a console. For $500, I can get: a Series X and a controller, ready to play out of the box. With GamePass (currently $1 first month), I get instant access to a large library of games. A current GPU (20, 30, or 40 -series) costs more than that, and I also need to purchase the additional components to put it all together. I built a PC in college because it used to be the most cost effective option. But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. These 40-series prices will define the cost for the next generation of cards, and IMO its too much to justify for casual gaming.
- izacus 4y agoNot sure what you're asking here? Consoles these days use midrange AMD GPUs. Getting a comparable rig is price wise perhaps a 100-200$ of price difference for (arguably) more flexibility. What's not computing for you?
- groovybits 4y agoCan you show me a build that you can make from off-the-shelf parts today for $700 that is comparable to the 6700XT in the Series X, without carrying over existing parts? PC Part Picker doesn't seem to think so: https://pcpartpicker.com/builds/#X=0,70000&sort=price https://pcpartpicker.com/builds/#X=0,70000&sort=price
- shaggie76 4y agoAs a streamer AV1 encode support is really exciting to me; when I can enable in OBS and stream to Twitch etc getting an Ada GPU would be high on my list of upgrades.
- lostmsu 4y agoDoes AV1 have much better compression than HEVC? I use NVENC for my entire desktop with virtual resolution of about 6k x 2.5k in real time and barely feel anything.
- syntaxing 4y agoThis might sound crazy but would it make more sense for me to buy a Mac Studio instead of the new GTX40 series if I just want to dabble in some fun ML like stable diffusion? I don’t plan on training anything crazy on my own, even if I do, it’ll be fine tuning rather than scratch.
- aseipp 4y agoNo, go pick up a 3090 Ti from Best Buy instead. It's $999 right now -- over half off, maybe more with this announcement -- and has 24GB of VRAM, and can chew through Stable Diffusion requests in seconds versus dozens of seconds or minutes for alternatives. And because it's an nvidia card, you'll be in a much better position to troubleshoot problems or whatever if you want to retune/retrain models or get your feet wet. Or, you know. Shove it into another PC and play a video game. That said the Mac Studio is a pretty badass machine. Don't let me dissuade you from one if you just want it. But it's a worse choice if you just want to dabble in ML stuff, IMO. Staying with the well trodden road will help you more when you're new to it all.
- syntaxing 4y agoDoes regular RAM matter if I want to run stable diffusion? I only have 16GB RAM (but obviously upgradable). If I load the weights onto the VRAM, does it work SSD > RAM > VRAM or does it bypass the RAM?
- aseipp 4y agoYes, Stable Diffusion performance will improve the more VRAM you give it. This is generally true of almost every ML model, because ML models are often limited by bandwidth. There is a constant need to shove more data into the accelerator, but PCIe is very slow compared to data in VRAM. If you constantly had to push data over PCIe, your GPU would run at 5% of its max performance, and spend 95% of its time waiting on PCIe transfers. Instead, you load a bunch of data over PCIE at once into VRAM, as much as possible, and then you begin working. So the more VRAM you have, the more data you have "in hand" -- so you can have a bigger batch size for your training iterations, for example. So one of the things various releases of Stable Diffusion have tried to optimize, for example, is VRAM usage, because that's the #1 limiting factor for most people. Modern GPUs use virtual memory so they can see very large amounts of data and the GPU and OS will work together to page data in and out, like normal RAM. But if you want good performance, you need to work out of VRAM, so you need as much of it as possible, so you aren't paging data in and out. (More specifically to answer your question, yes it will page data from SSD into RAM and then into VRAM; this is because the data must pass through the memory controller in practice on most designs to go over PCIe, but if you are using fancier Tesla/Quadro cards, they can actually do P2P DMA transfers and go directly from SSD -> GPU, but this requires special care and support from all pieces of hardware inbetween.) Note that in a funny twist of fate, the M1 series from Apple kind of has an advantage here. They use very high-bandwidth LPDDR5X for their designs, and the GPU and CPU share that. Which means that in theory, the Mac Studio for example could have astronomically large amounts of VRAM dedicated to a task like ML. So why not use a Mac? Because the hardware is only good as the software you run it on, and training/tuning ML software on Macs is simply nowhere near as well polished as Linux/Nvidia. That's all it comes down to. And I say "well polished" very liberally; in practice it's all a bit of a hodge-podge nightmare because the job is very hodge-podge...
- DotaFan 4y agoLooking forward to this series, gonna replace my old 1060 G1.
- ianbutler 4y agoDisappointed that VRAM isn't going up. May have to pick up server cards and rent colo for some of the things I'd like to do. Or I guess the 4090 TI is rumored to have 48GB so I'll wait and see.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mrb 4y agoSo the 4090 is 38% faster (in FP32 FLOPS) than the current top server GPU (H100) and 105% faster than the current top desktop GPU (3090 Ti). And it's also more than twice as efficient (in FLOPS per watt) as all current top GPUs, even compared to the H100 which is manufactured on the same TSMC 4N process. This is impressive. The computing power of these new GPUs (in FP32 TFLOPS) is as below: Nvidia RTX 4090: 82.6 TFLOPS (450 watts¹) Nvidia RTX 4080-16GB: 48.8 TFLOPS (320 watts¹) Nvidia RTX 4080-12GB: 40.1 TFLOPS (285 watts¹) Compared to Nvidia's current top server and top desktop GPUs: Nvidia H100 (SXM card): 60.1 TFLOPS (700 watts) Nvidia RTX 3090 Ti: 40.0 TFLOPS (450 watts) Compared to AMD's current top server and top desktop GPUs: AMD Instinct MI250X: 47.9 TFLOPS (560 watts) AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT: 23.7 TFLOPS (335 watts) ¹ I didn't see the wattage listed in this page by Nvidia; my source is https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-rtx-4090-rtx-4080-launch-geforce-beyond/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-rtx-4090-rtx-...
- xbar 4y agoIt's there: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/compare/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/compare/
- adrian_b 4y agoThe FP32 comparisons show only a very incomplete image about the RTX 40 series vs. server GPUs. Both the NVIDIA and the AMD server GPUs are about 30 times faster at FP64 operations. At equal FP32 Tflops, the server GPUs would be 32 times faster at FP64 operations. A 16 factor comes from having an 1:2 FP64/FP32 speed ratio instead of an 1:32 ratio, and an additional factor of 2 comes because the server GPUs have FP64 matrix operations, which do not exist in consumer GPUs. So the difference in FP64 speed is really huge. Moreover, the server GPUs have ECC memory. When you have a computation that takes a week, you would not want it to provide wrong results, forcing you to redo it.
- immmmmm 4y agoare they still using the same chip in server and gaming ranges and crippling f64 by a fuse or software?
- drummer 4y agoJudging by the prices, nvidia's ceo is smoking something highly illegal and unhealthy.
- Ekaros 4y agoI wait for inevitable price drop when first adopters have gotten theirs and miners don't prop up demand anymore... I just don't believe these price levels stay.
- sfmike 4y agoso we see it's: 4090 - $1600 4080 (16GB) - $1200 4080 (12GB) - $900 But realisitcally it hits amazon, best buy, what's the real price going to be? these rates or another 30 to 50%?
- bullen 4y agoI downgraded my GPUs to passively cooled 1030 with DDR5 memory. There is ZERO point to playing games that need more power.
- redblacktree 4y agoHow well does it run MS Flight Simulator?
- bullen 4y agoI would guess with all settings at lowest 60 FPS. Edit: 20 FPS apparently sad... As all games for eternity. If you release a game that doesn't it will end up in historys waste basket together with 2077. The games I did try on it are: PUBG (~55 FPS), Fortnite (60), Java Minecraft with bad mods (60), Scrap Mechanic (60), Sable (40-50). Make sure you get a DDR5 version though, DDR4 is 30% less performant for Unity/Unreal games. Which means Fortnite is still playable because that probably gets 90 FPS without vsync. And so are Java Minecraft and Scrap Mechanic. PUBG and Sable would be annoying to play on a DDR4 card.
- squeaky-clean 4y agoLooks like 20fps at 1080p with all settings at lowest or disabled.
- bullen 4y agoAh, too bad. Not for me, but for Microsoft and all those that would want to play that game now and specially in the future when a KWh becomes more expensive than $1.
- noncoml 4y agoI hope mining comes back because NVIDIA has destroyed all good faith they had from the gaming community.
- moneycantbuy 4y agoAnyone know if/when a 48GB card (4090 ti?) will be released?
- binarymax 4y agoWas seriously considering buying a used A100, just because it had >16GB RAM and was built for model training. Considering this new 4090 has 24GB RAM and is probably faster and cheaper than a used V100, I'll be picking one up for sure.
- mkaic 4y agoHooray, can't wait to buy a 3090 once the prices fall even further than they already have and completely ignore these new, overpriced cards that draw half a kilowatt! I'm more excited about the Hopper server-class cards — not because I'll be using them, but because now Stability can swap their A100s for H100s and train more Stable Diffusion models for me to mess around with!
- checkyoursudo 4y agoI have had a hard time feeling like it would have been worthwhile to upgrade through all these generations from my current 1080. Am I just no longer an enthusiast? Am I getting old?
- shostack 4y agoWill I be able to use this in a SFF Maingear Turbo chassis with a Corsair SF750 PSU and 240mm AIO cooling? Unclear wrt space, heat, and power.
- oblak 4y agoI am going to sit this one out, though very much looking forward to RDNA3. Absolutely hate how 4080 16GB and 4080 12GB are completely different products under the same name. That's good old nvidia for you.
- aemoron 4y agoThe European prices are ridiculous. 4090 starting 1999€. I guess I'll be skipping another generation of cards...
- dougmwne 4y agoYou do realize that it’s about 350 euro in added 22% VAT, right? That makes it about $/€50 different. You expecting a massive discount or something? I’m not saying euro pricing isn’t usual higher, but everyone always forgets the tax.
- aemoron 4y agoYes, I do realize the tax. The price is ridiculous nevertheless. I do not expect anything else but reasonable pricing. Stop being a corporate apologist. Nvidia is known for anti consumer behaviour since forever. This is just another Turingesque launch. i.e. bad. I swear you "but the tax" people always crawl out the woodwork whenever someone is discontent with pricing.
- dougmwne 4y agoThe tax is literally the problem with quoting the price in Euros. As far as the price, the equivalent card from the 3 series was the 3090 RTX, which released at $1499 msrp 2 years ago. Given the inflation over past few years, $100 increase is not an increase in constant dollars. This new top of the line card has twice the performance for effectively the same price. Yes these top of the line cards are crazy expensive, but it doesn’t seem like this is actually worse than the 3 series pricing. You are talking about more than 6 Xbox’s worth of compute here for an ultra enthusiast market.
- fomine3 4y agoIt's also a problem by USD oriented pricing. It tend to be done by US based company like Apple and Nvidia. I found new Samsung Galaxy price isn't looks so bad unlike them because they are Korean.
- balls187 4y agoAfter moving to the Steam deck, I'm not sure I care about my PC GPU anymore. The combination of the Steam Deck w/ Xbox Cloud Gaming, has changed how I will move forward with PC gaming. I think in the future, I'd want to use steam deck w/ an external GPU when driving my large monitor, and then cloud streaming, SoC gpu for handheld mode.
- bullen 4y agoThe problem with cloud streaming are 2 fold: 1) The latency will always be a problem, and for me low latency gameplay IS the reason I play games. 2) When the cloud providers electricity contract runs out the cloud service will cost 10x.
- selectodude 4y ago> When the cloud providers electricity contract runs out the cloud service will cost 10x. Location matters greatly here. There are tons of data centers in my area due to stable electricity prices due to a high nuclear base generation capacity. I paid the same ten years ago as I do now.
- bullen 4y agoOk, interesting in what country are you if you don't mind the question? I'm guessing US? I think marginal prices are going to shuffle the board pretty harshly from now on though! Energy does not create itself out of thin air. (except from the sun, and that takes millions of years to get stored as coal, oil and gas) so it's just a matter of time before the nuclear plants margins are going to break too. I was for nuclear after I discovered uranium has 1.000.000.000x the energy contents per weight of batteries but now I realize without cheap marginal coal, oil and gas nuclear is too risky. As I see it now the only solution is to reduce consumption, yeasterday voluntarily or tomorrow (today in EU) dragged by our hair.
- MikusR 4y agoThe funny thing is that GeforceNow 3080 tier can have lower latency than local console + TV
- jiwidi 4y agoNvidia needs a GPU generation where they focus only on power consumption. These power increases aren't sustainable
- dougmwne 4y agoIt’s actually a 2x performance per watt increase. The 450w power consumption of the top card is the same as the previous generation’s top card, 3090ti. Why decrease overall power consumption of the top of the line cards? PSUs and cooling can handle it and it’s for the customer that wants top performance. There are plenty of other cards in the line at lower total wattage with a good performance per watt.
- clircle 4y agoWhat’s the point in upgrading? Maybe I’m just getting old, but todays games dont look much better or than what i played 5 years ago. And they have these kooky monetization strategies now. Looks like gamers are paying a premium to enjoy derivative or scummy games.
- LegitShady 4y agoEveryone has different requirements for what their computer should do. If I want to play flight simulator at 4k at high framerates, or VR, etc there is still room for faster cards. It's not for everyone, but that doesn't mean that games have remained the same for 5 years, or that there's no reason to upgrade. If you don't want to, go ahead, but there is definitely appetite for faster cards.
- kuang_eleven 4y agoI am mystified at how many comments here are shocked at the price; the 4090 exactly in line with recent NVIDIA pricing. The 4080s do seem a little strangely overpriced, but not by huge margins. For comparison, the 3090 launched at $1500.
- selfhoster11 4y agoWe’re not shocked that the prices are in line with their recent pricing strategy. We are shocked that they haven’t decided to change course to make up for the past lack of availability, crazy power consumption, and card prices soaring through the roof.
- LoveMortuus 4y agoI hope Intel won't give up and will make something notable with their Intel Ark dGPUs!
- Avlin67 4y agodisplay port 1.4 and pcie 4.0 only… bandwith limited, you pay for the dlss licence, not the hardware
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- PaulHoule 4y agoFor a while I was looking ahead to getting a used card from a miner but I am stuck on the horns of this dilemma: NVIDIA is very quick to roll out new features. It’s been a while since I’ve done AI work but there is software out there that won’t run on the two 10-series cards I used and I’m worried a 30-series might have trouble running models that come out a year from now.
- Kerbonut 4y agoYou could always get a used 30-series card now and get a new 40-series card next year if there are features you need or performance needs.
- pojzon 4y agoIMHO My issue is not with the prices of GPU which will probably be higher than whats here. But the issue is that games industry derotated into current sore state. MTX everywhere and rarely you get a full version of a GOOD game. So yes. My current card will probably wait till gaming industry will reinvent itself.
- DynamicStatic 4y agoWell stop playing shit titles and this is less of a problem.
- pojzon 4y agoWitcher3 was the last game in 10 years that landed in top10 on metacritic. Its not really me, good games are just not created as often now.
- fomine3 4y ago3090 stays on PCIe 4.0, it's rational decision. I wonder why Intel and AMD implements PCIe 5.0 slot and M/B manufacturers had only one 5.0 x16 slot. It's really useless to have (even in foressable future), add costs, and not flexible
- imbnwa 4y agoThese prices, wow. Anyone got tips on cheapest 4K@60 solution?
- t0bia_s 4y agoNew cars, new smartphones, new clothes, new GPU's... every year. Are we really in climate crisis of this neverending rat race? Or is it alarmism a new PR strategy that supports consumerism?
- MaxikCZ 4y agoJust because they are updating GPUs every year doesnt mean you have to update your GPU every year. Same with cars, smartphones, clothes.. Just because someone else is in different spot of their update cycle doesnt mean everyones cycle should be the same and synchronized
- t0bia_s 4y agoSure, I don't have to and I won't. But production, advertisement and hype is still there. Our sources are not infinite, right? Why aren't we focus more on quality?