19 ms·
To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
- 29athrowaway 4y agoThey can also partially occlude their face too.
- roessland 4y agoMight be a great article but I had to stop reading since I couldn't bear the scroll hijacking.
- budafish 4y ago100% agree. Made me feel a bit nauseous.
- mdp2021 4y agoNo issue here. It appears your system allows it.
- mdp2021 4y ago@Moderators, it very clearly appears from this puzzling case that the downvoting idea instilled in users is broken.
- krageon 4y agoI would say your comment is: - Vague - A variation of "works on my machine" And is therefore tedious and doesn't add anything to the discussion. It deserves the downvotes it gets, because they are for low-quality content.
- mdp2021 4y agoIt does not provide a cure for cancer, because its job is simply to inform the user suffering an issue that the experienced issue is not strictly on the server side but depends on the client side. Which appears duly, as a first step in troubleshooting. It informs the user that there are configurations that avoid it, so the user has an orientation to possibly check for alternatives, assess and reconsider local configuration. More details (works on this and that) are avoided for obvious privacy reasons. In the new titles I saw an "is site s down": the information "works here", which you seem to be calling avoidable, is in fact a basic troubleshooting step to reconstruct where the issue is.
- nominusllc 4y agoI did not experience this, my system doesn't allow it
- Sohcahtoa82 4y agoHow did you configure your browser to not allow websites to hijack how scrolling works?
- beeboop 4y agoPossibly disabling JS, which isn't uncommon for HN users
- Sohcahtoa82 4y agoAh, yeah I could see that. I tried using NoScript a long time ago and felt it just broke everything and I didn't want to start whitelisting every site I use just to make the web usable. uBlock Origin is good enough for blocking ads and trackers.
- jwilk 4y agohttps://archive.today/6Dis6 https://archive.today/6Dis6 may work better.
- vrecan 4y agoAgreed, as soon as I scrolled once and I noticed it I was gone.
- bobkazamakis 4y agoshoe on head
- eesmith 4y agoVermin Supreme, the leader in the fight against deepfakes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin_Supreme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin_Supreme
- diydsp 4y ago8/9/2022: To prevent against uncovering, train your models to generate sideviews.
- tommoor 4y agoYes, but one of the points of the article is a distinct lack of source material to train models on profile views
- e40 4y agoFor people like Tom Cruise that shouldn’t be a problem.
- renewiltord 4y ago> ...,we need to consider the high availability of data for notable Hollywood TV and movie actors. By itself, the TV show Seinfeld represents 66 hours of available footage, the majority featuring Jerry Seinfeld, with abundant profile footage on display due to the frequent multi-person conversations. > Matt Damon’s current movie output alone, likewise, has a rough combined runtime of 144 hours, most of it available in high-definition. > By contrast, how many profile shots do you have of yourself? From the article
- david_draco 4y ago"profile view challenge" coming in 3, 2, 1 ...
- Traubenfuchs 4y agoShow your left side like this and your right side like this and let others comment which side looks prettier OwO.
- basilgohar 4y agoIt's probably not obvious to many that there's nearly a limitless source of training data on social media at this point. Your comment is eerily prescient and now all trends can become suspect as being a plant for additional training to circumvent, well, known circumventions!
- florbo 4y agomultiple pan angle 360 arc shot challenge
- schroeding 4y ago"Hey! To make sure you stay secure, we require a short video. Please look straight into the camera and tap the screen." "You look great! We just need you to blink 5 times, and you're almost done!" "Almost done! Just show us your best side and turn your head to the left like shown above." "Of course, you only have best sides. Just turn your head to the right like displayed above, and we can continue." "You've almost got it! Please open your mouth and show us your teeth." "Wow, look at you go! Just one step remaining: Tilt your head to the right like shown above." "Now, to complete your verification, hold your national ID beside your face. Make sure it does not obstruct your head! We need to be able to see your pretty face!" (Tongue in cheek, of course. But my banking app actually uses this kind of language, even for verification stuff, and I don't like it :D)
- SapporoChris 4y agoAbsurd requests will increase in absurdity as long as there is not significant push back.
- shiftpgdn 4y agoTangentially related but a simple way to bust a chatbot is to ask “What is larger, the Eiffel Tower or a shoe box?”
- elicash 4y agoHere's what Meta's blenderbot replied with: "The Tokyo tower is taller than the eiffel tower. Interesting facts like that interest me. Do you know about it?"
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- TillE 4y agoI'm not surprised that it responded with a random unrelated fact, but it is funny that the second sentence is incredibly awkward, and the last one isn't really coherent English. Just a total AI meltdown from one simple question.
- partdavid 4y agoPeople need to know about the CAN EAT MORE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIoBSYpgYRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIoBSYpgYRw For me, I call these Eliza-isms, since it reminds me of its simple formulas like "Can you tell me more about ___" that people got so much mileage out of.
- hotpotamus 4y agoI remember someone posting a chat thread from one of the more advanced AIs within the last few years wherein they asked it who the president of the US is, and it was not able to answer. Interestingly, this is a question my father would ask patients as a paramedic who was trying to assess people's consciousness. Another would be, "what day of the week is it?". I'd say that these technologies are just like magic - they can seem to do things that defy your expectations, but oftentimes they fall apart when looked at from a different angle.
- deedree 4y agoYou might wanna argue his characteristic nose is the biggest giveaway.
- Arkadin 4y agoWhy not just use the standard Voight-Kampff test?
- neogodless 4y agoThe pitfalls have been thoroughly documented.
- aqw137 4y agoit would be good if we could just ask to look up and to the left
- bearjaws 4y agoSerendipitously over the weekend I was thinking about a future where for key sensitive data access (e.g. production main) you may need to have a quick 5 minute call (4th factor, "3D verification") where you would be asked to turn on your camera and be asked to answer some simple question and in different positions... Main thinking was how out of control it would get, it would probably end up looking like anti-cheat systems where its a constant cat and mouse game due to growing sophistication of deep fake models.
- phpnode 4y agoin the UK this is already relatively common for online banking. I asked my bank to raise my daily transfer limit the other day for a property purchase and part of the process was recording a video of myself in their app.
- ghaff 4y agoAnd, of course, as barriers are raised it makes it very difficult for some portion of the population (and less convenient for everyone else). I have to change addresses for an older person at a couple of banks and I'm sure it's going to be a nightmare.
- couchand 4y agoThat being said, if instead of "use our custom app you've never seen to record a video" it's "just talk to a person with some standard video chat" then maybe it makes things a whole lot easier? But I don't see that being how it's implemented these days...
- ghaff 4y agoYeah. It's still going to be a barrier for some people but I'm guessing most could get comfortable with it if they were forced to. But getting my dad to do anything that isn't a voice call is pretty much pulling teeth. (Except for using Amazon. I think a lot of things are more don't want to than can't.))
- sbszllr 4y agoSource: I work in the field. This is a current limitation, and an artifact of the data+method but not something that should be relied upon. If we do some adversary modelling, we can find two ways to work around this: 1) actively generate and search for such data; perhaps expensive for small actors but not well equipped malicious ones. 2) wait for deep learning to catch up, e.g. by extending NERFs (neural radiance fields) to faces; matter of time. Now, if your company/government is on the bleeding edge of ML-based deception, they can have such policy, and they will update it 12-18-24 months (or whenever (1) or (2) materialises). However, I don't know one organisation that doesn't have some outdated security guideline that they cling to, e.g. old school password rules and rotations. Will "turning sideways to spot a deepfake" be a valid test in 5 years? Prolly no, so don't base your secops around this.
- xyzal 4y agoI wonder how much work would it entail to swap one actor's face for another's in a movie. Just finished watching Fury Road, and Tom Hardy just feels a bit off to me.
- bsenftner 4y agoThat's "bread and butter" work in VFX. I used to be a stunt double actor replacement specialist. These daze, ML enhanced tools make the work for a face replacement shot exponentially faster and easier - as is needed for the huge number of superhero stunts insurance companies will not let the stars perform.
- WalterBright 4y agoSo do we really know that Tom Cruise is doing his own stunts as claimed?
- lsllc 4y agoThe fact that Tom Cruise appears to not have aged in 30 years might be telling!
- bsenftner 4y agoEach film he does one very public stunt for real; for the other stunt shots he does them as well, but not hanging off the side of a building or whatever, he's 5 inches off the ground with a landing pad in case someone slips. Remember that whatever is in the background was probably not there when the sequence was shot; background replacement is another "bread and butter" effect.
- eesmith 4y agoI imagine that asking the caller to use a mirror would also be effective, although with a high error rate as an effective mirror may not be at hand.
- t_mann 4y agoOmg, looking forward to Yoga-based Captchas in the future: That ain't looking like a proper downward dog to me, pal, no access for you
- elygre 4y agoNo no... this does look like a proper downward dog, but no way you could do that!
- tiborsaas 4y agoPlease say "I'm not a robot" with a Scottish accent 3 times and do a backflip to login.
- notduncansmith 4y agoBut voice recognition technology… it don’t do Scottish accents https://youtu.be/TqAu-DDlINs https://youtu.be/TqAu-DDlINs
- aasasd 4y agoThat will be a different one, that does Scottish accent and nothing else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiL23P1W9dQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiL23P1W9dQ
- TheAceOfHearts 4y agoPlease drink verification can. https://m.imgur.com/dgGvgKF https://m.imgur.com/dgGvgKF
- prettyStandard 4y agoNeeds more jpeg.
- curiousgal 4y ago
- JohnJamesRambo 4y agoIs audio harder to fake than video? I was watching the Keanu one and wondered if it is harder to real time fake Keanu’s voice than his face?
- 0xedd 4y agoNo. Both face the same challenge - quality of data. The rest has already been solved.
- goatlover 4y agoDoes this mean any possible audio or video a real human can do, current ML can fake with enough quality of data? Like there's no possible test a real human can do which can't be faked, given the relevant data?
- bob_paulson 4y agodeepfakes done in a unethical way is a real threat indeed. This paper shows how to identify some of them. And metaphysics.ai are doing something a bit different. Let's wait and see.
- isusmelj 4y agoDeepfake models are trained on very similar data. They don't generalize well, usually. E.g. we take lots of data from YouTube videos of a single person under a specific condition (same time, same day, same haircut etc.) I know that as I spent quite some time researching these models and worked on a deepfake detection startup. Purely looking at it from a technological side, it's a cat mouse game. Similar to an antivirus software. A new method appears to create deepfakes. A new detection method is required. However, we can also make use of the models to not properly generalize and their limitations of the training process. Anything that is out of distribution (very rare occurrence in training data) will be hard for the model: - blinking (if the model has ever only seen single frames it will create rather random unusual blinking behavior - turn around (as mentioned by the author, side views are rarer in the web) - take off your glasses - slap your cheek - draw something on your cheek - take scissors and cut a piece of your hair The last two would be especially difficult and funny (:
- eckza 4y ago> Put shoe on head
- westmeal 4y agoAh yes the OG method of verification
- octoberfranklin 4y ago> Put fish on head https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/02/technology/02spam.html#:~:text=fish,head https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/02/technology/02spam.html#:~...
- prox 4y agoMeet in person
- cypress66 4y agoLooking at how fast dall-e is improving, and how it "understands" concepts even if you mix them in crazy ways, all of your later examples seem solvable in less than a decade. But I don't know much about ML so I might be wrong.
- vivegi 4y agoHybrid Video/audio/semantic Captcha, perhaps? An audio prompt like 'Using your <right | left> hand, repeat the numbers that I am signaling. Use <a different | the same> set of fingers from what I am using'.
- Scoundreller 4y agoThis is why I got really upset when my employer said the swimsuit competition segment of the interview was past its time. Its time is now!
- robocat 4y agoI can wear a swimsuit, but the person verifying the video is not going to enjoy seeing me in a swimsuit, at all.
- Scoundreller 4y agoDon’t worry, we won’t add it to the training models.
- m3kw9 4y agoProb will mess up for upside down too
- ape4 4y agoAlso if Nicolas Cage is calling me its probably fake.
- rexreed 4y agoWhat if it's your CEO? Or someone from the bank? Or a college professor? Or a political prisoner?
- WalterBright 4y agoI suppose the same way people used to deal with getting a letter from someone.
- bencollier49 4y agoThis is pretty funny. We're going to run the entire gamut of different verification technologies for them all to become compromised, forcing us to return to in-person transactions for everything. Time to start investing in closed bank branches.
- wakahiu 4y agoI was recently looking for designers for my company when I came across an interesting profile on Dribbble. I reached out and quickly scheduled a time when we could talk over zoom. At the meeting time, in comes this person who seems to have a strange-looking, silicone-like face. I was using my Zoom account (I rarely use other peoples zooms unless I trust them), to avoid situations like this. One thing I noticed is that when the candidate touched their face, their fingers would appear to sink into their skin - almost as if it were made of liquid. Secondly, their face appeared larger, lighter and smoother than their neck. I got spooked an immediately let the candidate know that I was not comfortable moving forward. More interestingly, what exactly are them mechanics of getting a deep fake into video call? How is it possible that a what seems like a deepfake could make its way into my Zoom? Is Zoom enabling external plugins that alter video details? https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hf9c9kg52nxal0/Screen%20Shot%202022-08-04%20at%2010.07.12%20AM.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hf9c9kg52nxal0/Screen%20Shot%2020...
- EliotBee 4y agoThings like OBS (streaming software) can create a virtual camera. I am guessing its something like that where Zoom does not even know the camera is not actually real hardware.
- PullJosh 4y agoThe live-streaming software OBS has a “virtual webcam” feature that can make a generated video feed behave like a hardware webcam. Perhaps something similar is being used to feed generated video into zoom?
- 0xedd 4y agoInput for software can be anything. Camera feed can be a generated one and the software consuming it doesn't have to be aware it isn't a real physical camera. Zoom isn't aware.
- thrashh 4y agoYou can just make Zoom use any webcam on your system And you can write your own webcam drivers to use in any program Or use existing software with virtual webcam output like OBS or ManyCam and write a plug-in for that Our emit a network video stream and just play your video in that kind of software instead of writing a plugin
- jjk166 4y agoProbably a more robust test would be asking the caller to run their hand through their hair a few times. Maybe you could pre-render a few samples, but it would be trivial to request the person pass their hands through their hair in a specific way, or simply do it again after their hair is already messed up a bit from the first time. It could still be defeated by the caller having the same hair style (or wearing a good wig) as the person they are imitating, but then making someone look like someone else with practical effects has been a thing forever and it has not been a huge problem.
- 0xJRS 4y agoin my career i've personally worked with no less than half a dozen bald coworkers. i do think this is a good idea but won't work for everyone
- happyopossum 4y agowhy wouldn't it still work? Hands in front of faces are already a huge problem for live deepfakes, wether or not the faker or the faker are bald shouldn't make this much easier. The only scenario this wound't be extra difficult for is if both the faker and the person being faked are bald, and even then the presence of a hand will likely cause some artifacts.
- robocat 4y ago> run their hand through their hair That would have trouble passing anti-discrimination requirements: disability (no hands), medical (bandanna covering cancer treatment hair loss), religious (burka, rasta, yarmulke, sheitel), racist (cornrow). And trouble with: dreadlocks (can’t run fingers through), bald headed guys (as mentioned by sibling comment), and people with hairdo’s (coiffure, hairspray, topknots, plaits etcetera).
- jjk166 4y agoIt doesn't need to be literally their hand through their hair, it just needs to be some action which is easy to perform but complicated to photo-realistically simulate in real time from an arbitrary starting condition. Have them tug on their clothes to see how the fabric moves, have them or a caretaker turn a nearby light on and off such that their illumination changes, etc.
- darepublic 4y ago> Arguably, this approach could be extended to automated systems that ask the user to adopt various poses in order to authenticate their entry into banking and other security-critical systems. This approach works until it doesn't. How long before deep fake can handle the 90 degree profile scenario? Not saying its not a valid approach but you'd have to consider the time it takes to implement these other checks and then the time we expect deep fakes to improve in this scenario
- BoredPuffin 4y agoHere we go again... there's a rule that describe this situation where a measuring matrix becomes the standard, the said matrix is no longer indicative. But please, I don't want to be pointing to a random bus outside my window to prove that I'm not a robot/deepfake... The degrade of news article quality > the degrade of fact-checking journalism scrutiny > the degrade of written article quality > people rather watch live stream event than reading > degrade of live stream event trustworthiness because of deepfake... What's next? Heavily scrutinised journal articles which runs check on videos with anti-deepfake AI-based algorithm? Oh wait we've just gone through the full cycle.
- fattybob 4y agoJust ask to zoom into their ear !
- ArrayBoundCheck 4y agoPeople asked stuff like this 15years ago (do bunny ears on yourself or pretend to pick your nose). Usually to see if the other person is catfishing with a prerecorded video. It usually happens if the other person types instead of speaks (because it's "late" and people are sleeping) The only thing interesting about the title is the possibility of real time deepfakes for calls. If it's not realtime then 15years ago called and they want their technique back
- markus_zhang 4y agoI'm wondering if all agencies are trying to capture as many pics of high officials of other countries to make the best training set. Then they can use it during war.
- testplzignore 4y agoPerhaps could ask the caller to perform some other interaction that would be difficult to fake, like drinking a can of Mountain Dew. Maybe make them sing a jingle and do a dance...
- keepquestioning 4y ago
- msadowski 4y agoI had a call with a Polish government last year to get access to one of the government portals and they were asking me to move my head to the side and also move a palm of my hand very slowly in front of my face. Interesting times.
- londons_explore 4y agoSlightly more robust method... Ask the caller to move out of the frame and then back in again. You will see a noticable 'step' as the face that is partially in the frame suddenly gets detected as a face and the deepfake is applied. The only way around this is to crop the input video quite heavily - by at least one face diameter, which is a lot if the user is near the camera.
- robocat 4y agoOr pass a piece of paper or splayed fingered hand slowly in front of your face?
- IshKebab 4y ago> The only way around this is to crop the input video quite heavily I mean that sounds a lot easier than making deep fakes work well with profile data surely?
- Epokhe 4y agoAsk the caller to move their hand in front of the camera so the hand fully obstructs the view, and then slowly slide the hand to the side until it completely moves out of the view. Crop-resistant!
- themoonisachees 4y agoUntil tech improves to fix this too. Detecting ai-generated content is a fool's errand since that is literally how they get better.
- npteljes 4y agoIt's only a fool's errant if you give up. If you don't give up, then it's a cat-and-mouse game. Forever outsmarting the other, but neither side winning permanently.
- mkl 4y agoI don't think that's very robust. The entire image could easily be fake, as the face is fake, and people already have fake backgrounds. If the entire image is fake, there's no reason for the actual camera's view to match the fake image, so a wider angle camera would keep you in view as you move, and the system could generate a tighter fake view.
- yalogin 4y agoIf you really want to verify the other end and if asking them to do something is allowed, you can ask them to any number of things, isn't it? The key is to not turning it into a protocol. That will ensure it gets built into the software.
- maerF0x0 4y agoSide thought: I really enjoy how similar some of the suggestions (in TFA and comments) resemble reality checks for lucid dreaming. In general Observing something and asking oneself "is this really how reality behaves?" Which is such an interesting question itself to question the nature of reality beyond our own initial perceptions. https://lucid.fandom.com/wiki/Reality_check https://lucid.fandom.com/wiki/Reality_check
- mike_hearn 4y agoLong term, the only robust way to solve this is going to involve a remote attestation chain i.e. video that's being signed by the web cam as it's produced, and then transformed/recompressed inside e.g. SGX enclaves or an SEV protected virtual machine that's sending an RA to the other side. Although hard to set up (you need a lot of people to cooperate and CPU vendors have to bring these features back to consumer hardware), it has a lot of advantages over what you might call trick-based approaches: 1. Robust to AI improvements. 2. Blocks all kinds of faking and tampering, not just deepfakes. 3. With a bit of work can securely timestamp the video such that it can become evidence useful for dispute resolution. 4. Also applies to audio. 5. Works in the static/offline scenario where you just get a video file and have to check it. There are probably other advantages too. The way to do such things has been known about for a long time. The issue is not any missing pieces of tech but simply building a consensus amongst hardware vendors that there's actual market demand for [deep]fake-proof IO. In reality, deepfakes have been around for some years now but have there been any reports of actual real world attacks using them? Not sure, I didn't hear of any but maybe there's been one or two. Problem is, that's not enough to sustain a market. Attacks have to become pretty common before it's worth throwing anything more than cheap heuristics at it.
- ballenf 4y agoThen you just point the webcam at a screen or microphone at a speaker? I really don't think moving our trust to unknown, unnamed manufacturers of hardware in far away places is a solution. The solution is not going to be high tech, imho. Just like we have learned a skepticism resulting from Photoshop, we'll learn a skepticism of live video or audio.
- oliwarner 4y agoYou could layer on IR depth mapping, available in many Windows Hello providing camera systems. I happen to agree with the other voices here saying this is a folly game of cat and mouse, but there are near-time methods of making this harder to fool. And that might be enough for now.
- itake 4y ago
- DenisM 4y agoPatiently waiting for the government(s) to step in and start providing a modern ID service - a driver license with a built in private key, a fingerprint unlock, and a PIN. The combination of the three can still be defeated by someone following you, stealing the card, lifting fingerprint from a glass, and spying the PIN, but that’s a lot of trouble to go through and online identity fraud will become extinct.
- xmprt 4y ago> a driver license with a built in private key IDs should never be used as secrets. That's like mixing up your username and password.
- DenisM 4y agoWhat practical problem do you envision with this setup?
- orthoxerox 4y agoOr by someone kidnapping you and applying a rubber hose to your kidneys until you tell them the PIN.
- jiveturkey42 4y agoImagine what will happen when they start sending deepfake kidnapping ransom videos
- night-rider 4y agoSigned up for one of those 'neobanks' (that don't have physical branches) and part of the signup required me to turn my head sideways. I wondered why they wanted me to do that. Now I know.
- InCityDreams 4y agoThanks for contributing to the dataset. www.hownormalami.eu
- night-rider 4y agoWhy should I trust that site?
- anonu 4y agoIs there a "client side" way to detect this? Similar to how we can detect photoshopped still images: checking edges, shadows, pixels, etc... The benefit is you would not have to rely on issuing commands to the remote party.
- kortex 4y agoMedia forensics algorithms do work on various forms of rebroadcast, transmission, and compression, so yes this should be possible (for now). look up darpa medifor project. Siwei Lyu (in the article) did a bunch of work in this space. Also see Hany Farid and Shruti Agarwal. They've worked specifically with deep fake detection. https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.14491 https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.14491
- evan_ 4y agoIt sounds like part of this issue is that it loses tracking if it can't see both of your eyes, which of course could be defeated by using a couple of cameras spaced at 45° to one another and calibrated to work together in some way. Instead of a "deep fake" face swap an attacker could send virtual video from a fully-virtual environment using something like an nvidia Metahuman controlled by the camera array. I think that would be pretty easily detectable today but maybe less so with an emulated bad webcam and low-res video link. The models/rigging are only going to improve in the future. The classic "Put a shoe on your head" verification route would still defeat that, at least until someone invents a very good tool to allow those types of models to spawn and manipulate props.
- jstummbillig 4y agoAaand they just got better at that.
- paparush 4y agoFace left. Face right. Recite Asimov's 3rd law.
- baby 4y agoHeh, at some point I'm convinced that we'll use both: * customizable 3D avatars * customizable voices to communicate in meetings and in communities (VR Chat style). So the origin won't be associated to your avatar or your voice, but it'll be associated with your account (like in good old chat).
- 1024core 4y agoTIL there are Deepfake video calls... :-(
- PKop 4y agoTom Cruise is going to hate zoom calls
- kortex 4y agoIt's a constant cat-and-mouse game. When I worked in this space (2019-2021), the best defense against deep fakes was looking at the microfacial behavior/kinematics of the "puppetmaster" and comparing against known standards of the deepfake subject. Works even if the fake is pixel-perfect (since it looks at the facial "wireframe" rather than the image itself). The obvious downside is you need sample data of the subject (and usually tons of it). I wonder if that general approach can be optimized. E.g. Deep fakes tend to struggle with certain fine movement/detail, if you had a reflection of the subject, the algorithm would have to not just replicate the main face and the mirror, but also be completely optically consistent. Was a fun project, but the cat-and-mouse feeling was inescapable. For those curious, look up the DARPA MediFor project. Siwei Lyu (in the article) did a bunch of work in this space. Also see Hany Farid and Shruti Agarwal. They've worked specifically with deep fake detection. https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.14491 https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.14491
- formerkrogemp 4y agoI suppose this turning sideways trick will work until it doesn't. I do appreciate everyone on this site contributing to my knowledge of infosec. I don't work directly in the space, but I feel the contributions on this site help educate those of us not directly working the profession.
- jacobsenscott 4y agoAdversary keeps camera off (bad hair day, broken web cam, low bandwidth, etc). Now how do you verify their identity? (Hint, the same way you would when the camera is on.)
- jacobsenscott 4y agoYou don't need to do silly head movements. You could send the other person and email with a password, or a text, or a signal message or ask where you last had a drink together or... If you are concerned that all methods of communications are compromised you wouldn't suddenly trust zoom if they do some silly head movement.
- GuB-42 4y agoIt reminds me of the meme where guys sing over "Evanescence - Bring Me To Life" with the snapchat gender swap filter on. The female vocals are done facing the camera, showing a female face, the male vocals are done sideways. Turning sideways effectively disables the filter, showing the real (male) face. Just look it up, (or go there if you feel lazy https://digg.com/2019/bring-me-to-life-gender-swap https://digg.com/2019/bring-me-to-life-gender-swap )
- geraldwhen 4y agoI’ve heard of interviews where a different person shows up entirely but claims to be the original person. Why use deep fakes when you can just not and get the same result.
- rochak 4y agoSometimes, I wonder if us humans even know or care that we are taking things too far. I am all for progress and going beyond, but deepfake and all these other recent AI developments are taking us to a dystopian future which I am not super hopeful about.
- EGreg 4y agoWhenever a robocall interactive salesperson calls me, I ask them what is today’s date or what time is it. They hang up shortly afterwards haha
- 12ian34 4y agoIs this to be an empathy test? Capillary dilation of the so-called blush response, fluctuation of the pupil, involuntary dilation of the iris?
- JorgeGT 4y agoWe call it Voight-Kampff for short.
- AviationAtom 4y agoI had an Indian sales rep for a deepfake filter, it creeped the hell out of me when the voice totally did not match up with the pasty white Irish face.
- 17amxn17 4y ago
- notum 4y ago...or ask them to stick their tongue out.
- pojzon 4y agoSlowly companies using it will pop up to help you pass hiring exam. Someone good answers all questions for you with your face and you get hired for few months till they realize you are a con.
- jng 4y agoRay Kurzweil: "The day it starts working, we're doomed". Reality: "We got convincing front-facing deep fakes! Sideways? Don't worry, it will be ready in just 24 months!"
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- yarg 4y agoThe existence of GANs as a mechanism for learning is reason enough to err away from static detection methods.
- yarg 4y agoWe can already resolve the interframe wobbles that happen due to the inability to preserve spatial invariants on static meshes allowing for dynamic camera motion. Of course, the spatial invariants of meat-suits in motion require an understanding of volumetric structure, and not just restricted depth surface meshes. But it's not some unencodable computational enigma.
- BrandoElFollito 4y agoYour face is one factor of identification, the solution is to add more. A one time password that is shown or spoken would ensure authentication. This is a general comment, in reality you want to do a real risk analysis, i.e. understand what you want to protect against, exactly.
- subjectsigma 4y agoThere is a tried and true method for making sure someone sending you pictures is real. Ask them to write today's date and a random word on a piece of paper and hold it up next to their face. People have been doing this on the Internet for ages. It doesn't authenticate them but it does show they are actually producing the pictures.
- gxt 4y agoWhat's with everyone playing who-wants-to-be-a-gymnast by saying turn side ways, put a shoe on your head, do a backflip, move out of frame.? Encrypt/sign the feed, watermark the images with a QR code containing the sig, have an app on your phone with their pubkey and display a big green check when it matches. every pure deepfake attempt is now easily dealt with. Boom.