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Coinbase Announces 18% Layoffs

778 points by npalli 4y ago

coinbasesteals 4y ago
anshublog 4y ago
This is sad. This was avoidable. There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. There’s a crypto recession. Let’s go back to building real tech.
- puranjay 4y ago
  The yield curve says otherwise. You won't feel it until Q4 2022 or Q1 2023.
- krzyk 4y ago
  Have you seen stock market? They are crashing also, this is recession.
- smilebot 4y ago
  Better believe in recession, you're in one.
- choeger 4y ago
  >There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. Back your pardon? The Fed is expected to raise the interest rate by 0.75% in September, IIRC. If that's not a recession on the horizon, then what is?
  - freeone3000 4y ago
    Two straight quarters of declining GDP. Merely raising interest rates to a sane figure (still below 3%!) isn't recession-causing in any sane economy.
  - atlasunshrugged 4y ago
    They might actually do so this week if the news is to be believed https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/13/markets-are-now-bracing-for-the-possibility-of-bigger-fed-interest-rate-hikes-ahead.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/13/markets-are-now-bracing-for-... https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/13/fed-reportedly-may-hike-rates-by-three-quarters-of-a-point-this-week.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/13/fed-reportedly-may-hike-rate... edit to add second non-paywalled link
    - paganel 4y ago
      I was about to say that waiting till September might be not ideal when it comes to battling inflation.
  - melling 4y ago
    Raising rates has a lagging effect. That results in the economy won’t be felt until next year. One of the benefits of crypto was supposed to be that it was uncorrelated to the market, etc. “Money” shouldn’t change in value so quickly.
    - matwood 4y ago
      > One of the benefits of crypto was supposed to be that it was uncorrelated to the market, etc. Crypto may or may not have its own issues, but all assets tend to suffer 'correlation breakdown' during market volatility.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - tobltobs 4y ago
    We would still be below 2%. Interest Rate in the United States averaged 5.44 percent from 1971 until 2022.
    - JKCalhoun 4y ago
      Still waiting for the banks to raise my saving's interest rate to 70's level. ½ percent doesn't cut it.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        Buy I Bonds. 9.62% https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_ibonds_ibuy.htm https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds...
        jaywalk 4y ago
        Unfortunately limited to $10k per year, but at that rate everyone should be buying up to the limit.
        elijaht 4y ago
        Limited to 10k/year
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        $15k; you can buy $5k with your tax return. $30k if you've a spouse.
        JKCalhoun 4y ago
        Ha ha, what tax return? Thanks, though. Setting up an account today.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        If you want, you can overpay taxes by $5k to get a refund to put into I Bonds.
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    Is there a "recession" in the rest of the tech industry? I took that to be the point of the person you are replying to.
    - mepiethree 4y ago
      Yes? Many stocks are down >50% and companies are announcing hiring freezes
      - roflyear 4y ago
        How is that a recession?
      - rvz 4y ago
        Yeah, It is not exclusive to crypto is it? We've already seen that even Tesla and Netflix announced layoffs. So, there's that.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    They raised interest rates several times over the last year. Of course from any point in time a recession is “on the horizon,” but this is not the cut and dry predictor you’re making it out to be.
- cj 4y ago
  > This was avoidable. There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. Can you elaborate on how the situation we're in was avoidable? Also curious why you think there's no signs of a recession.
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    The avoidable part is pretty obvious: don't invest in, work for, trade in crypto. The recession part is of course debatable.
  - puranjay 4y ago
    upper middle-class tech workers live in their own bubble.
- truthwhisperer 4y ago
- iso1631 4y ago
  > Real gross domestic product (GDP) decreased at an annual rate of 1.5 percent in the first quarter of 2022 Any bets it's going to be positive in Q2 with the ballooning oil prices?
- HHC-Hunter 4y ago
  >There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. You cannot print money nigh on end. If you did not see this downturn coming in the markets, I have a bridge to sell you.
- johnbellone 4y ago
  Where do you live?
- rvz 4y ago
  > There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. There’s a crypto recession. Don't be the guy who replied to my comment, waiting for the results to tell you that it is a recession. [0] If you are preparing now, you're almost too late. Only the paranoid survive. > Let’s go back to building real tech. Like the spyware laden software made by the likes of Meta, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon that they are building? No worse than crypto I'm afraid. The free-software foundation are still waiting for you and others for 37 years to stop building non-free software riddled with surveillance and tracking. But neither that nor crypto is going to stop is it? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31441710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31441710
ur-whale 4y ago
Nothing to see here, Schumpeter's gale [1] in action, actually good news for Bitcoin. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction
toomuchtodo 4y ago
Credit to Coinbase, the severance benefits are generous, including the 4 months of COBRA health insurance.
gfodor 4y ago
4 months of COBRA? I thought 18 months was required by federal law?
- avrionov 4y ago
  4 months is the payed portion of COBRA. After that the former employees pay themselves.
- thomasjudge 4y ago
  Under COBRA you're eligible to remain on your employer-provided health care coverage for 18 to 36 months, employers aren't required to pay for any of it (and most don't)
- prescriptivist 4y ago
  They are paying for the first four months of COBRA.
  - gfodor 4y ago
    Oh thanks that makes more sense, and is quite generous.
macspoofing 4y ago
I guess that petition didn't work.
kosyblysk666 4y ago
tulips,,,,fresh tulips,,,tulips,,,one dollar only,,,,
soumyadeb 4y ago
Why would they announce a hiring freeze and do this after two weeks instead of doing only one. As if one bad PR isn't enough. you need two!!
- fullshark 4y ago
  Presumably they wanted the distance from layoffs to communicating exactly who was laid off to be as small as possible and that required more work than simply freezing hiring and rescinding offers. They were likely discussed in parallel and announced as quickly as possible.
blocked_again 4y ago
Is there a single YC company which is doing good in public market? It seems like all YC companies are net loss making investment for the retail investors have they bought the stocks in IPO.
- fullshark 4y ago
  What tech company that IPOed in the last 5 years is even above IPO price at the moment? This is not unique to YC, but maybe unique to the pump and dump VC scene that was cultivated in this bull run.
- puranjay 4y ago
  YC was peak funny money. I work extensively with startups and it was increasingly apparent in the last few years that the main objective of the startup was to raise funding, not to build product or deliver value. The number of "unicorns" that will be around in a decade is likely in the low double digits at best.
  - sillysaurusx 4y ago
    Starting one unicorn is a big achievement. Helping start 12 is incredible. That’s over 12 billion dollars by definition.
- shippintoboston 4y ago
  The decade plus of easy money from the government is ending. Unsure but we might start seeing a major cull of all these unprofitable companies that have been propped up.
  - randomsearch 4y ago
    I don’t think it’s just about the easy money. I think it’s about confidence and a bubble. Crypto is the biggest bubble of all, and everyone knows a bubble is going to pop. It lasts until the big guys lose their nerve and start pulling out, which is what we’re seeing now. They’re losing their nerve because they can see the economic tsunami coming from a variety of directions. I’m concerned that the decadence of the west has now led to a series of get rich schemes that create bubble after bubble, providing successive paper booms that are bailed out by governments. The problem is that the consequences of each bail out accumulates, so this broader cycle seems itself unsustainable. Western economies need to get back to real wealth creation. A good test of that is - can your economy solve real physical problems? Can it feed itself? Can it produce what you need in a pandemic? Are there goods and services that are universally in demand over the long term, which you produce better than anyone else? It’s like growth of GDP has become this silly KPI that our governments obsess over whilst ignoring what’s making that happen. You can grow GDP by destroying the environment or running a Ponzi scheme, but what you really care about is the underlying strength of the economy. The U.K. was heavily exposed by covid, in terms of its manufacturing capability and its managed response. We looked weak and disorganised. Now we need to learn from that and focus on growing a diverse and solid economy that is powerful and flexible enough to respond properly to challenges like the energy price hikes. But I suspect the next bubble will grow just like crypto and our government will continue to pretend everything is ok.
andyjohnson0 4y ago
What struck me about this announcement was that the CEO states a couple of times that he is accountable for the decision, but doesn't say what form that accountability takes. I try not to be cynical, but I suspect in this case that there will be no actual, real accountability.
- jakebasile 4y ago
  It's his fault and the buck stops with him, but guess who is remaining employed?
  - dvt 4y ago
    I mean, it's his company. Kind of a weird comment to make.
    - andyjohnson0 4y ago
      > I mean, it's his company. Kind of a weird comment to make. Its a public company, so it belongs to the shareholders. Brian Armstrong is one of the founders, and is the largest share owner, but a cursory google suggests that he owns just about 10% of the shares by value.
      - q1w2 4y ago
        ...and the shareholders literally determine his salary. Why do you care what these people pay each other?
        hajile 4y ago
        That's like saying that US citizens vote for the Federal swamp. 99% of them are totally against the swamp, yet the swamp continues. Voting doesn't matter if there's no real ability to vote for real change.
        q1w2 4y ago
lizardactivist 4y ago
Aside from this, do people think of Coinbase as the Google of crypto-currency? As in monstrous in size, and where your account, wallet, and coins are not really safe, and perhaps only yours until Coinbase decides otherwise?
kache_ 4y ago
The first thing I check with these layoffs is the proportion of engineering vs not engineering layoffs.
aaronsimpson 4y ago
> Minimum of 14 weeks of severance plus an additional 2 weeks for every year of employment beyond 1 year. This feels super generous to me. Is it standard par for growing companies and Silicon Valley?
- nsxwolf 4y ago
  Yeah that seems huge. After 3 years at an SF-area company (not SV), I got 4 weeks severance. Barely enough to make it until unemployment kicks in, or get the ball rolling on interviews.
corydori 4y ago
Coinbase is such a trash company...It's exec's running the company have no idea what they are doing. From a consumer standpoint it's been a nightmare...They basically locked my account for unknown reasons to me, then stated they can't disclose there reasoning. I then had to open multiple support cases and wait a month before being able to move USD back to my bank...
- coinbasesteals 4y ago
avinassh 4y ago
Brian also posted a short explanation on twitter: > 1/ Today I shared that I've made the difficult decision to reduce the size of our team at Coinbase by about 18%. The broader market downturn means that we need to be more mindful of costs as we head into a potential recession. > 2/ We also grew quite quickly over the past two years and have begun to operate less efficiently at our new size. It will take us some time to adjust to this new scale before growing again. > 3/ We've put some key programs in place to try and minimize the impact to our affected employees. Here is a note that I sent to the company earlier today with more information https://nitter.net/brian_armstrong/status/1536689760147603456?s=21 https://nitter.net/brian_armstrong/status/153668976014760345...
Patrol8394 4y ago
Their business is mostly based on tx fees, whereas in the “old” financial system tx fees are no more. Orange is the new black? I don’t see how they can build a long term sustainable business. They were lucky enough to go IPO during a BTC super hyped bull cycle. It is all downhill from here. If I was working at CB I would have probably cashed out post-IPO and moved on. I see no reason to work there post-IPO.
talhof8 4y ago
Why would one choose to work in a company (& industry) that's so volatile & unstable, that has gone through 4 major downturns in just 10y?
seydor 4y ago
Workforce size correlates with price of Bitcoin
anotherfounder 4y ago
Maybe the letter last week was more right than it was wrong.. they only forgot to include Brian in the list himself.
aruanavekar 4y ago
So many folks on payroll for such a fresh starter company. It is unbelievable how these companies grew at such speed in the last 2 years. Were most roles sales/MLM model to generate influence? 18% Coinbase - 1100 20% BlockFi - 170 5% Crypto - 260
i13e 4y ago
https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/COIN/financials/annual/balance-sheet https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/COIN/financials/annua... See 3000% debt growth in FY 2021. IANAE but that doesn't seem too good and probably explains their poor stock performance (down 85% since listing on Nasdaq)
pachico 4y ago
Still, he doesn't mention the ultimate reason for all this, which is that crypto is not sustainable and is a glorified vaporware that pretentiously tried to convince the world that it was a solution while, in reality, became simply a different problem. I don't think we are now in a better position than before crypto. I honestly think that we wouldn't miss it if it was gone. Sorry, I had to finally vomit my frustration about the subject.
- jstx1 4y ago
  Is that really relevant to Coinbase's business though? They're a fee collector - they can do great as long as they're collecting more in fees than it costs them to run the business, and that's true regardless of the net societal value of cryptocurrencies.
  - rajup 4y ago
    Pretty relevant no? If more people realize it’s not sustainable and is a energy wasting scam, the less people trading leading to less fees.
  - pachico 4y ago
    The whole industry around it is just making it worse.
benj111 4y ago
Isn't the promise of the web is that it's supposed to scale without a commensurate increase in man power. If so why are companies laying off staff when things get rough. Were these staff not needed to start with if so why were they employed to start with. Or are they eating the seed corn so to speak?
TekMol 4y ago
So they scaled from 1000 to 2000 employees in a year because ... There were new use cases enabled by crypto getting traction practically every week. We saw the opportunities but we needed to massively scale our team to be positioned to compete in a broad array of bets. ...yet they have not enabled their users to use the Lightning Network? I wonder why. The LN would enable all Coinbase users to do nearly instant and nearly free transactions. Wouldn't that help crypto adoption big time?
- hudon 4y ago
  They make their money from the large cryptocurrency trading market and focus on allowing more speculative tokens to be traded. They probably correctly assess that the market of people who want to use Bitcoin for daily transactions is comparatively insignificant.
  - coinbasesteals 4y ago
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  Probably because they see that the vast majority of their users never withdraw their coins, and they probably prefer it that way.
- ev1 4y ago
  Out of my circle, the only people I know that actually spend BTC as BTC for transactions, usually for things like personal domains, hold their own wallet and don't touch exchanges. The people that heavily use exchanges hold it purely for speculation and/or gambling and have never once "spent" BTC.
- EnderWT 4y ago
  Coinbase has over 5000 employees. They hired 1200 employees in the first three months of this year. That's about the number they had in total just 2 years ago.
DogLover_ 4y ago
I find it weird/irresponsible that they could not foresee this. Did they really expect the market to grow forever without downturn.
frays 4y ago
I assume engineers will be part of these layoffs. Won't that mean there's a huge loss of knowledge if they're cutting their access right away? Even 2 weeks of notice often isn't enough for people to finish knowledge transfers.
chimon 4y ago
Taking this news in stride with the recent employee petition and the Twitter rants from leadership, the writing was on the wall.
oldstrangers 4y ago
It's shocking to me that people keep fucking up these money printing machines (read: crypto exchanges). Your incessant need for growth and share holder value completely rots your brain and you take a golden goose and burden it with so much overhead that it becomes unsustainable. Why?! Just sit back and collect exchange fees, become rich beyond your imagination (see FTX).
- adbachman 4y ago
  The "money printing machine" relies 100% on inducing new suckers to participate. If you sit still (i.e., don't spend $$ on customer acquisition) the whole system dies.
  - oldstrangers 4y ago
    Yeah, you can have a marketing budget. No one said you couldn't. But the kind of growth Coinbase was going for was far beyond the scope of just "customer acquisition".
QuadrupleA 4y ago
Did this get buried by moderators? 610 points / 504 comments in 3 hours yet already down to #38.
- pgz 4y ago
  Was wondering the same, looks quite suspicious
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  Probably yes, and it’s also the right call. There have been many recent articles about the economy, especially with regards to tech (and doubly so for crypto). Coinbase being a YC co doesn’t mean that layoffs are automatically worth a front page slot for more than a couple hours. It’s boring news, too. It gratifies no curiosity.
  - QuadrupleA 4y ago
    I personally find the whole thing fascinating and a relevant intersection of tech and society, perfectly fitting here. A type of distributed database software quickly gains mass frenzy, people bidding up the price of the database entries, leading to a cambrian explosion of scams, fraud, hype, environmental destruction, ransomware and terrorism, and now undergoing what seems to be a catastrophic (and well-deserved IMHO) collapse.
- sbierwagen 4y ago
  Submissions with lots of comments get deranked by the anti-flamewar algorithm to push them off the front page. Don't worry, you'll be seeing plenty more stories about crypto businesses doing major layoffs over the next month.
rayquaza32 4y ago
smh
sergiotapia 4y ago
Why did this thread disappear from the frontpage? Shady.
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  Because it’s boring news. The primary goal of HN is to gratify intellectual curiosity.
Justsignedup 4y ago
In a surprise to noone. When a CEO announces a "if you don't like us leave" or something crazy... I expect big layoffs happening. Its just a way to lay off without severance.
bastardoperator 4y ago
But they had money for an NBA finals commercial and can sponsor F1 racing. Looking forward to cancelling my account. If they'll fsck employees I can only imagine what they will do to customers.
iamgopal 4y ago
5000-6000 employees for coin base ? How ? What do they do ? A good 50-100 programmers could not have built it ?
kiralinux22 4y ago
joshka 4y ago
> Given the number of employees who have access to sensitive customer information This seems like the real news. Coinbase's CEO just admitted that their security posture is underdeveloped. > it was unfortunately the only practical choice, to ensure not even a single person made a rash decision that harmed the business or themselves. Not only that, they don't have a way to prevent malicious internal actors.
jstx1 4y ago
If we follow the weekly updates: 1. First a hiring "slowdown". 2. Hiring freeze and rescinded offers. 3. 18% layoffs. What's the reason behind announcing it in stages? Don't they receive much more negative publicity this way? Or are they really making decisions from one week for the next?
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  It'll all be forgotten when they announce withdrawal freezes. Don't worry, it's for the Safety of the Network ™
  - typeofhuman 4y ago
    Not your keys, not your coins. Don't keep your assets on an exchange.
    - krzyk 4y ago
      Yeah, off to do my evacuation to paper wallets and wait 4 years to go back.
- gruez 4y ago
  between 2 and 3, the bls released a new inflation report, and there was a subsequent market crash.
- boringg 4y ago
  Unfortunately it takes time to be able to actually to change expectation, craft and execute an exit plan properly. Also going through the motions signals what's happening for better or worse.
- michaelt 4y ago
  There's two ways you can announce a big corporate change: 1. A fully formed announcement, where everyone learns their fate on day 1. People will complain that it came out of nowhere, they weren't consulted, and that skulking managers sharpened their knives in secret. 2. A gradual announcement, where everybody knows well before the big announcement that something is coming. People will complain about uncertainty and sleepless nights spent fearing for their jobs. (Neither option is complaint-free, because there's no way of firing 18% of your workforce without putting people in the mood to complain)
londons_explore 4y ago
Did coinbase pay employees in dollars or crypto? Paying employees in coinbase-coins sounds very attractive, and if there is any group of people who would want that it's employees of a crypto company...
- giancarlostoro 4y ago
  I would assume they got paid in real currency. If they received crypto as a benefit, that's a whole other story.
- moepstar 4y ago
  I think they do/did - iirc, i read something in a thread on Reddit from one of their employees...
- nfRfqX5n 4y ago
  Cash and stock
- f6v 4y ago
  Hope no one was that stupid.
- infecto 4y ago
  Don't know if they still do it but ~8 years ago they were offering salary in bitcoin.
pluc 4y ago
synu 4y ago
As soon as you started seeing projects like NFTs of jars full of farts you had to know the end was coming.
nojito 4y ago
>If you are affected, you will receive this notification in your personal email, because we made the decision to cut access to Coinbase systems for affected employees. I realize that removal of access will feel sudden and unexpected, and this is not the experience I wanted for you. Given the number of employees who have access to sensitive customer information, it was unfortunately the only practical choice, to ensure not even a single person made a rash decision that harmed the business or themselves. Very interesting!! Cutting nearly 20% of your staff but not giving any opportunity for workload transitions take place.
- bambax 4y ago
  Wow. The language is nice but the behavior is horrendous. Also illegal in many parts of the world: IDK if they have employees in Europe but if they do it will be a big mess. Suddenly cutting off an employee from a company, with no way to even say goodbye to their former colleagues, is despicable. It really shows who you are. Let's hope they will have a hard time hiring back anyone in the future. Edit: as pointed out in many comments in this thread, this is apparently "normal" in the US. Point taken. (But if it is, then it's a little strange that the CEO felt the need to justify it.)
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    It’s totally normal here and done to protect the company. It’s one of the reasons Americans are paid considerably more than Euros. Companies can take on more risk and pay more because they aren’t burdened with strict employee relationship laws. What Coinbase is giving in severance is quite generous. They don’t have to do that but it’s really nice and I’d say it improves their reputation. These types of things (layoffs) happen and they’re taking care of their ex-employees.
    - ausbah 4y ago
      most US companies wouldn't be giving severance anywhere like this, much less severance at all
atlasunshrugged 4y ago
It is fascinating just how quickly sentiments can change (both in the broader market but in crypto it seems to be exacerbated). That said, it's obvious that companies like these dramatically overhired and overspent on talent and were growing far beyond what the market could bear except in an extremely bull run subsidized by government largesse. Now that investors are losing their shirts on crypto and retail people who were playing with fun money have sports to bet on again and can go outside, I imagine the trading volume is going to keep declining dramatically, and they basically missed the NFT craze since their marketplace was late to the party. Hope their employees who have been with them for a while were able to sell at a reasonable time after IPO and aren't still in the lockup period.
- melling 4y ago
  “It is fascinating just how quickly sentiments can change” Sounds like a classic bubble that people have been warning about. Tulips all over again? https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/02/warren-buffett-wouldnt-spend-25-on-all-of-the-bitcoin-in-the-world.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/02/warren-buffett-wouldnt-s...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ChrisRR 4y ago
    Beanie Babies all over again
    - scoopertrooper 4y ago
      Worse, at least the Beanie Bros had warehouses full of stuffed toys to remind them of their mistakes in the end. All the cryptoists get is a lousy set of characters for their trouble.
      - omnibrain 4y ago
        And you still could use them for their original purpose: as a toy. A few months ago I read a post on Reddit who someone who is now a teacher uses them as a occasionally gift for pupils: https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/s5rz7s/comment/ht09pof/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/s5rz7s/c...
seibelj 4y ago
Crypto is clearly crashing but I’m more curious if a reckoning will hit FAANG, particularly Google. I know one person there who is the spouse of a good friend, and they make nearly 7 figures as a middle manager (although I’m unsure what happens with the stock declines and RSUs). Can these companies support legions of absurdly highly paid people? GOOG is down 25% this year, what will happen when it drops 50%?
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  Google also makes a huge amount of profit. In 2021, they made something like 350,000 of profit per full time employee. Ads are not nearly as fickle as crypto. Somebody making nearly 7 figures as a middle manager is only doing so because they are including stock appreciation in their compensation. That isn't the norm steady state, even for L7s.
- kache_ 4y ago
  I don't think you understand how much money google makes :P they might slow growth, but I really can't see them laying off people
- randomsearch 4y ago
  Google is a solid business with a bright future. If they actually worked out their cloud offering then it would be even brighter. Crypto is not comparable to companies like Google. If you’re looking for tech companies that might suffer, you’re looking for one trick ponies that can’t innovate - maybe look at Facebook. Google has a strong focus on engineering and academic smarts. That has big downsides that might prevent them from making truly great user-centred products, but it’s also a robust philosophy that will ensure that they endure. I expect Google to be around in 2100. Facebook no. Coinbase absolutely not.
- bombcar 4y ago
  I believe that most grants are "money value of stocks at time of grant" so if you're getting 1m over 4 years, you get however many shares 1m would have bought at the time of the grant. This of course means that if you were granted just before a downturn, the "reason to stay" isn't as powerful as it was before. And I think the big names will start slowing down hiring and offering less, probably salaries stay the same but the grants start to decline.
prescriptivist 4y ago
Can't believe they are still airing the Long Live Crypto ad during the NBA playoffs. Just saw one last night.
- stuff4ben 4y ago
  That money has already been spent. No way they'd be getting that back.
- higeorge13 4y ago
  It’s also funny that all F1 teams have crypto sponsors and half the tracks are sponsored by crypto.com this year.
- bottled_poe 4y ago
  Right before inflation takes off, “staples” stadium was renamed to “crypto.com” stadium - at once a comical metaphor and omen.
  - jpadkins 4y ago
    reminds me of the phenomenon of a new record for tallest building in the world signals a major recession.
  - puranjay 4y ago
    and Crypto.com laid off 5% of its workforce just yesterday
    - wp381640 4y ago
      It's crazy how much of a marketing footprint they have considering they're only the 19/20th largest exchange I think the chances of them seeing out their stadium sponsorship are near 0%
      - xtracto 4y ago
        I was amazed they are so prevalent in the Formula 1 races. I've seen them and OKX plastered around race track and cars.
square_usual 4y ago
Puts in stark contrast the relatively recent ad they ran for the NBA finals mocking crypto skeptics. Hmm, I wonder how much that ad cost...
- i13e 4y ago
  It was probably a rhetorical question but about a 30 second ad slot for the super bowl this year cost $7m so quite a lot
hftthrowaway22 4y ago
It’s been pretty interesting watching YC backed Coinbase get absolutely crushed by FTX, which has a higher % of crypto trading volume despite having less than 10% of the headcount. Crypto is a zero sum game, and the old Paul Graham essays and other tired VC dogmas really only work in positive sum games. FTX was founded by traders which is valuable when the ultimate purpose of the crypto industry is to separate uninformed people from their money.
- grey-area 4y ago
  FTX is also going to feel a lot of pain when the crypto market crash completes. None of these companies are IMO sustainable without mass interest in cryptocurrencies, which is rapidly fading as people realise they're not going to get rich quick.
  - kolbe 4y ago
    This is the case for most market makers in whatever markets they're in. A crash usually produces a huge trading windfall, and then the subsequent "recession" leaves people with little money to invest/gamble with. FTX's traders are veterans of the industry, and they understand the need to be lean when order flow is light, and the need to make as much as possible when it's hot. Coinbase just watched the best two years of trading pass in front of their eyes, and failed to monetize it even to 10% of its potential. If they're lucky, they will get another opportunity to do things right in 5 years. But the trading graveyard is filled with people/companies like Coinbase who did really well for a year because they lucked into a good position, but who should have done 10x better. But then the real players see the opportunity, and run the Coinbases of the world off.
  - codebolt 4y ago
    FTX is in deep with Tether. I expect they'll pull some tricks out of their collective hats to avoid a complete collapse.
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      Pulling tricks needs a new sucker pipeline. But sucker pipelines will dry up as old suckers get burned and money is generally drying up due to interest rates.
Proven 4y ago
chrisseaton 4y ago
> Coinbase has survived through four major crypto winters I don't understand - has crypto been around long enough to have winters? When were they?
- bogomipz 4y ago
  I read that and had the same thought. "Winters" at least in the context of AI which is where I believe the term in this context originated has been closer to 10 years [1]. It seems as though downturn would be more appropriate. Perhaps "winter" is becoming the preferred nomenclature because it's less alarming sounding? [1] https://www.actuaries.digital/2018/09/05/history-of-ai-winters/ https://www.actuaries.digital/2018/09/05/history-of-ai-winte...
- the_biot 4y ago
  You ever get the feeling cryptocurrency-related companies and a large chunk of their customer base live in their own reality? I think they have seasons now.
- oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
  If we're talking Bitcoin: - Early 2014 ($1,000 -> $300) - Late 2018/Early 2018 ($19,500 -> $6,800) - April 2021 ($63,000 -> $35,000) - Nov 2021-Now ($67,000-> $22,000)
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    I think 'winter' implies a long period of dormancy. The 'AI winter' was like a decade long. These were normal corrections.
    - shawabawa3 4y ago
      in each case there was a 3-4 year period of relative dormancy because the next hype cycle
  - rexreed 4y ago
    Sounds like typical market swings and gyrations in highly speculative markets. Happens in other boom-bust speculation assets from gold to oil to tulips. Are these "winters" or just wild market swings?
fallat 4y ago
To everyone: 2017 had the exact same pattern. Coinbase is suffering this time because they didn't learn at all the lessons that happened to the companies in 2017. For example, you will not see this happen with Kraken. This is normal, nothing to see here.
- randomsearch 4y ago
  Anyone thinking this is like 2017 and hodling or investing on that basis needs to pay a lot more attention the global economy.
- capableweb 4y ago
  Coinbase has survived something like 4 downturns before, the previous ones on the same strategy that they are employing now. So not sure what lessons they are not applying, that others are?
  - hcmacro 4y ago
    In which prior downturn did the valuation of Coinbase (and other unicorns) get nuked -90%?
    - chrisco255 4y ago
      Coinbase is the only publicly traded exchange that I know of? Coinbase wasn't public until early '21. So sure, VCs might have piled more money into Coinbase at higher valuations, but all of that VC activity and valuation is an inexact science without a liquid market. At any rate, off the top of my head, the dot com era had a similar vibe. And several tech firms are down 75+% this year so far (Netflix included).
    - Redoubts 4y ago
      In which prior downturn were they even listed?
      - hcmacro 4y ago
senttoschool 4y ago
So when the CEO said "leave". He was trying his hardest to get get his employees to leave so he doesn't have to pay severance.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  Severance is chump change to a company like Coinbase. It was a filter to find the disgruntled employees.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    I've seen companies do really stupid things over small amounts of money. It all depends where budget is allocated.
- I_am_tiberius 4y ago
  I don't think so. I assume that he asked people to leave because he wanted fewer people included in the layoff who actually care about the company.
  - caust1c 4y ago
    The above statements are not mutually exclusive.
blowski 4y ago
Why has the crypto boom and bust lined up so closely with the COVID pandemic? Is it a coincidence or is there some underlying cause?
- FabHK 4y ago
  Matt Levine's theory (regarding Robinhood mostly, but maybe applicable) is that people were bored (no sports to watch, can't go out, no cinema, no pubs), and so they started gambling on the markets. Additionally, many people reduced their spending (can't go out, no cinema, no pubs), and many of them retained their income or even augmented it (stimulus checks). So, discretionary income and fewer choices on what to spend it?
- raiyu 4y ago
  When covid started sporting events were cancelled and the general population received cash stimulus and with the ease of use of iPhone apps a lot of people that were used to gambling on sporting events switched to crypto. This led to an increase price which then attracted the second set of people and so forth.
- pavlov 4y ago
  Apart from the good economical explanations other replies have brought up, there's also a link between crypto and Covid-19 via the rise of conspiracy theories. Crypto is associated with some types of conspiratorial thinking: goldbug libertarians, ramblings about globalist bankers and George Soros, etc. The pandemic gave a boost to conspiracy theories overall, and crypto was a beneficiary.
- atentaten 4y ago
  It's a wealth transfer.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  People needed a hobby, I think. Now they're outside again.
  - ace32229 4y ago
nfRfqX5n 4y ago
how can anyone still trust this company as a prospective employee? I guess if they aren’t hiring it doesn’t matter but long term it’s not a good look
- lostcolony 4y ago
  I never really understood why people wanted to work for them in the first place. I knew they had large RSU packages (probably rather depressing now for the people tempted by it), but their culture always sounded horrible. Everything I saw screamed "you'll be expected to work > 40 hours every week", and even when they talked about culture it was hustle, make the company money. Which is probably more honest than most companies, but being so on the nose with the exploitation normalizes the expectation.
- jaywalk 4y ago
  It's nice that you think Coinbase actually has a "long term" to worry about.
johnbellone 4y ago
Anyone affected by this action and looking for work feel free to reach out. The folks I met from Coinbase are stellar and would love to work with you!
Barrera 4y ago
> If you are affected, you will receive this notification in your personal email, because we made the decision to cut access to Coinbase systems for affected employees. I realize that removal of access will feel sudden and unexpected, and this is not the experience I wanted for you. Given the number of employees who have access to sensitive customer information, it was unfortunately the only practical choice, to ensure not even a single person made a rash decision that harmed the business or themselves. How typical is this? Is he really talking about the hot wallet and/or cold storage? Those claiming that this is a "crypto" sentiment thing should consider the possibility that the front page of HN will be filled with stories like this from all over the economy within one month.
- t_mann 4y ago
  In finance it's pretty common practice (and in that sense Coinbase is similar to a broker). I remember stories about how half (?) the people working at UBS London came to work one morning to find that their badges didn't unlock the entrance gates anymore. And lots of stories like that in the years following the 2008 crash.
  - rchaud 4y ago
    Wouldn't their Blackberries be remotely deactivated first?
    - CydeWeys 4y ago
      Phones stop working for lots of reasons other than "I've been fired". I'd still show up to work. It'd be pretty bad if your phone indeed had just stopped working, and rather going in to get it fixed, you just assumed you were fired and then stopped going into work, thus actually getting fired for not showing up.
    - jabroni_salad 4y ago
      BES doing something reliably? That was a good laugh, thanks.
    - 4y ago
atlasunshrugged 4y ago
> If you are affected, you will receive this notification in your personal email, because we made the decision to cut access to Coinbase systems for affected employees. I realize that removal of access will feel sudden and unexpected, and this is not the experience I wanted for you. Given the number of employees who have access to sensitive customer information, it was unfortunately the only practical choice, to ensure not even a single person made a rash decision that harmed the business or themselves. Brutal. Not even the quintessential mass zoom call?
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
  > Brutal. Not even the quintessential mass zoom call? Bravo, Armstrong just put himself in good company of uncouth CEOs: I hope now no self-respecting person EVER applies to CONbase ever again and they die a slow irrelevant death.
- duxup 4y ago
  I’ve had video conference calls worse than a cold email with the facts.
  - atlasunshrugged 4y ago
    Absolutely, both awful, but I don't know, I personally would at least want to be "told live" what was happening and in an avenue where I could potentially ask some followup questions synchronously.
itsthecourier 4y ago
It's like decimation, but harder
Markoff 4y ago
I wonder how many cryptoexchanges stop withdrawavals "for technical reasons".
- kylecordes 4y ago
  Many/all of them might throttle withdrawals for actual technical reasons, if many customers run for the exit at the same time. The question is, which ones catch up and resume... and which ones actually ran off with the coins long ago. Maybe someone should make a betting / prediction-market site for this. Traded in boring USD please :-)
xnorswap 4y ago
Seems absurd that 18% can be laid off without an extended consultation period, proper notice, proper protocol of who should be laid off, etc. If any UK staff are affected, then I would talk to citizens' advice (or a solicitor if you can afford it) asap. Know your rights: https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/consultation https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/consultation You’re entitled to a consultation with your employer if you’re being made redundant. This involves speaking to them about: why you’re being made redundant any alternatives to redundancy If your employer is making up to 19 redundancies, there are no rules about how they should carry out the consultation. If they’re making 20 or more redundancies at the same time, the collective redundancy rules apply.
- andrewingram 4y ago
  You're right about consultation, but there's a sneaky trick to get around it. Simply tell the affected people they've been selected for voluntary redundancy, which comes with a much more attractive severance package. If they don't volunteer, you then forcibly make them redundant -- with a less attractive package, they can then enter into consultancy if there are enough of then. When this happened to me, 30% of the company was laid off, everyone took the "voluntary" package, no consultancy took place.
- xeromal 4y ago
  I don't really understand why anyone would want to continue working for a company that doesn't want you. Give me my severance (14 weeks for Coinbase) and let me go find something better to do.
- PhoenixReborn 4y ago
  I suspect most of the layoffs are in the US, where no such protections apply.
  - Maxious 4y ago
    > California’s Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN Act). Under this Act, the right of employers to lay workers off for reasons bordering on business necessity is curtailed. Employers who plan to lay 50 or more employees off within a 30-day period must give them a 60-day notice before taking such actions.
vishnugupta 4y ago
Compare and contrast CB’s hiring with that of FTX[1] Coinbase “ We have now exceeded the limit of how many new employees we can integrate while growing our productivity. For the past few months, adding new employees has made us less efficient, not more. We have seen ourselves slow down considerably due to coordination headwinds, and difficulty fully integrating new team members.” FTX “ It’s a race–between how quickly new employees understand the company's culture, and how quickly people are hired. The faster you hire, the harder it is to keep everyone on the same page.…. we wanted to make sure we could actually integrate everyone we hired into FTX's working culture.” [1] https://twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/1533946713366568962 https://twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/1533946713366568962
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  The FTX quote applies in so many circumstances. Tons of companies, organizations, and even teams have boom/bust hiring. No headcount for ages and then BOOM suddenly piles of headcount. This makes culture and knowledge sharing almost impossible.
  - kolbe 4y ago
    FTX is interested in being a real business. I think a lot of people the past several years have failed to try to become a real sustainable business, and instead have been pawns in Benchmark's and Tiger Global's schemes to flip companies into the S&P or into a F500 acquisition. CEOs in the former build responsibly. CEOs in the latter build fast to scare the incumbents into an acquisition or co-investment to push the price high enough to get it into the S&P.
Nullabillity 4y ago
> I am the CEO, and the buck stops with me. I assume that means Brian is part of the 18% then, right?
mancerayder 4y ago
Are crypto assets held by Coinbase at risk if this continues? The old adage, store it on your own wallet, has its own disadvantages (like proving ownership more than 12 months and losing it).
- wiihack 4y ago
  Well, they say your assets are "...protected, secure, and yours" [1]. Does that statement really holds up when the company goes bankrupt? I personally don't think so [1] https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/top-of-mind/top-of-mind/a-message-to-our-customers https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/top-of-mind/top-of-min...
T3RMINATED 4y ago

778 points by npalli 4y ago

This is sad. This was avoidable. There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. There’s a crypto recession. Let’s go back to building real tech.

puranjay 4y ago
The yield curve says otherwise. You won't feel it until Q4 2022 or Q1 2023.
krzyk 4y ago
Have you seen stock market? They are crashing also, this is recession.
smilebot 4y ago
Better believe in recession, you're in one.
choeger 4y ago
>There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. Back your pardon? The Fed is expected to raise the interest rate by 0.75% in September, IIRC. If that's not a recession on the horizon, then what is?
- freeone3000 4y ago
  Two straight quarters of declining GDP. Merely raising interest rates to a sane figure (still below 3%!) isn't recession-causing in any sane economy.
- atlasunshrugged 4y ago
  They might actually do so this week if the news is to be believed https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/13/markets-are-now-bracing-for-the-possibility-of-bigger-fed-interest-rate-hikes-ahead.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/13/markets-are-now-bracing-for-... https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/13/fed-reportedly-may-hike-rates-by-three-quarters-of-a-point-this-week.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/13/fed-reportedly-may-hike-rate... edit to add second non-paywalled link
  - paganel 4y ago
    I was about to say that waiting till September might be not ideal when it comes to battling inflation.
- melling 4y ago
  Raising rates has a lagging effect. That results in the economy won’t be felt until next year. One of the benefits of crypto was supposed to be that it was uncorrelated to the market, etc. “Money” shouldn’t change in value so quickly.
  - matwood 4y ago
    > One of the benefits of crypto was supposed to be that it was uncorrelated to the market, etc. Crypto may or may not have its own issues, but all assets tend to suffer 'correlation breakdown' during market volatility.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tobltobs 4y ago
  We would still be below 2%. Interest Rate in the United States averaged 5.44 percent from 1971 until 2022.
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    Still waiting for the banks to raise my saving's interest rate to 70's level. ½ percent doesn't cut it.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Buy I Bonds. 9.62% https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_ibonds_ibuy.htm https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds...
      - jaywalk 4y ago
        Unfortunately limited to $10k per year, but at that rate everyone should be buying up to the limit.
      - elijaht 4y ago
        Limited to 10k/year
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        $15k; you can buy $5k with your tax return. $30k if you've a spouse.
        JKCalhoun 4y ago
        Ha ha, what tax return? Thanks, though. Setting up an account today.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        If you want, you can overpay taxes by $5k to get a refund to put into I Bonds.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  Is there a "recession" in the rest of the tech industry? I took that to be the point of the person you are replying to.
  - mepiethree 4y ago
    Yes? Many stocks are down >50% and companies are announcing hiring freezes
    - roflyear 4y ago
      How is that a recession?
    - rvz 4y ago
      Yeah, It is not exclusive to crypto is it? We've already seen that even Tesla and Netflix announced layoffs. So, there's that.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  They raised interest rates several times over the last year. Of course from any point in time a recession is “on the horizon,” but this is not the cut and dry predictor you’re making it out to be.
cj 4y ago
> This was avoidable. There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. Can you elaborate on how the situation we're in was avoidable? Also curious why you think there's no signs of a recession.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  The avoidable part is pretty obvious: don't invest in, work for, trade in crypto. The recession part is of course debatable.
- puranjay 4y ago
  upper middle-class tech workers live in their own bubble.
truthwhisperer 4y ago
iso1631 4y ago
> Real gross domestic product (GDP) decreased at an annual rate of 1.5 percent in the first quarter of 2022 Any bets it's going to be positive in Q2 with the ballooning oil prices?
HHC-Hunter 4y ago
>There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. You cannot print money nigh on end. If you did not see this downturn coming in the markets, I have a bridge to sell you.
johnbellone 4y ago
Where do you live?
rvz 4y ago
> There’s no recession as far as the eye can see. There’s a crypto recession. Don't be the guy who replied to my comment, waiting for the results to tell you that it is a recession. [0] If you are preparing now, you're almost too late. Only the paranoid survive. > Let’s go back to building real tech. Like the spyware laden software made by the likes of Meta, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon that they are building? No worse than crypto I'm afraid. The free-software foundation are still waiting for you and others for 37 years to stop building non-free software riddled with surveillance and tracking. But neither that nor crypto is going to stop is it? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31441710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31441710

ur-whale 4y ago

Nothing to see here, Schumpeter's gale [1] in action, actually good news for Bitcoin. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Credit to Coinbase, the severance benefits are generous, including the 4 months of COBRA health insurance.

gfodor 4y ago

4 months of COBRA? I thought 18 months was required by federal law?

avrionov 4y ago
4 months is the payed portion of COBRA. After that the former employees pay themselves.
thomasjudge 4y ago
Under COBRA you're eligible to remain on your employer-provided health care coverage for 18 to 36 months, employers aren't required to pay for any of it (and most don't)
prescriptivist 4y ago
They are paying for the first four months of COBRA.
- gfodor 4y ago
  Oh thanks that makes more sense, and is quite generous.

macspoofing 4y ago

I guess that petition didn't work.

kosyblysk666 4y ago

tulips,,,,fresh tulips,,,tulips,,,one dollar only,,,,

soumyadeb 4y ago

Why would they announce a hiring freeze and do this after two weeks instead of doing only one. As if one bad PR isn't enough. you need two!!

fullshark 4y ago
Presumably they wanted the distance from layoffs to communicating exactly who was laid off to be as small as possible and that required more work than simply freezing hiring and rescinding offers. They were likely discussed in parallel and announced as quickly as possible.

blocked_again 4y ago

Is there a single YC company which is doing good in public market? It seems like all YC companies are net loss making investment for the retail investors have they bought the stocks in IPO.

fullshark 4y ago
What tech company that IPOed in the last 5 years is even above IPO price at the moment? This is not unique to YC, but maybe unique to the pump and dump VC scene that was cultivated in this bull run.
puranjay 4y ago
YC was peak funny money. I work extensively with startups and it was increasingly apparent in the last few years that the main objective of the startup was to raise funding, not to build product or deliver value. The number of "unicorns" that will be around in a decade is likely in the low double digits at best.
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  Starting one unicorn is a big achievement. Helping start 12 is incredible. That’s over 12 billion dollars by definition.
shippintoboston 4y ago
The decade plus of easy money from the government is ending. Unsure but we might start seeing a major cull of all these unprofitable companies that have been propped up.
- randomsearch 4y ago
  I don’t think it’s just about the easy money. I think it’s about confidence and a bubble. Crypto is the biggest bubble of all, and everyone knows a bubble is going to pop. It lasts until the big guys lose their nerve and start pulling out, which is what we’re seeing now. They’re losing their nerve because they can see the economic tsunami coming from a variety of directions. I’m concerned that the decadence of the west has now led to a series of get rich schemes that create bubble after bubble, providing successive paper booms that are bailed out by governments. The problem is that the consequences of each bail out accumulates, so this broader cycle seems itself unsustainable. Western economies need to get back to real wealth creation. A good test of that is - can your economy solve real physical problems? Can it feed itself? Can it produce what you need in a pandemic? Are there goods and services that are universally in demand over the long term, which you produce better than anyone else? It’s like growth of GDP has become this silly KPI that our governments obsess over whilst ignoring what’s making that happen. You can grow GDP by destroying the environment or running a Ponzi scheme, but what you really care about is the underlying strength of the economy. The U.K. was heavily exposed by covid, in terms of its manufacturing capability and its managed response. We looked weak and disorganised. Now we need to learn from that and focus on growing a diverse and solid economy that is powerful and flexible enough to respond properly to challenges like the energy price hikes. But I suspect the next bubble will grow just like crypto and our government will continue to pretend everything is ok.

andyjohnson0 4y ago

What struck me about this announcement was that the CEO states a couple of times that he is accountable for the decision, but doesn't say what form that accountability takes. I try not to be cynical, but I suspect in this case that there will be no actual, real accountability.

jakebasile 4y ago
It's his fault and the buck stops with him, but guess who is remaining employed?
- dvt 4y ago
  I mean, it's his company. Kind of a weird comment to make.
  - andyjohnson0 4y ago
    > I mean, it's his company. Kind of a weird comment to make. Its a public company, so it belongs to the shareholders. Brian Armstrong is one of the founders, and is the largest share owner, but a cursory google suggests that he owns just about 10% of the shares by value.
    - q1w2 4y ago
      ...and the shareholders literally determine his salary. Why do you care what these people pay each other?
      - hajile 4y ago
        That's like saying that US citizens vote for the Federal swamp. 99% of them are totally against the swamp, yet the swamp continues. Voting doesn't matter if there's no real ability to vote for real change.
        q1w2 4y ago

lizardactivist 4y ago

Aside from this, do people think of Coinbase as the Google of crypto-currency? As in monstrous in size, and where your account, wallet, and coins are not really safe, and perhaps only yours until Coinbase decides otherwise?

kache_ 4y ago

The first thing I check with these layoffs is the proportion of engineering vs not engineering layoffs.

aaronsimpson 4y ago

> Minimum of 14 weeks of severance plus an additional 2 weeks for every year of employment beyond 1 year. This feels super generous to me. Is it standard par for growing companies and Silicon Valley?

nsxwolf 4y ago
Yeah that seems huge. After 3 years at an SF-area company (not SV), I got 4 weeks severance. Barely enough to make it until unemployment kicks in, or get the ball rolling on interviews.

corydori 4y ago

Coinbase is such a trash company...It's exec's running the company have no idea what they are doing. From a consumer standpoint it's been a nightmare...They basically locked my account for unknown reasons to me, then stated they can't disclose there reasoning. I then had to open multiple support cases and wait a month before being able to move USD back to my bank...

coinbasesteals 4y ago

avinassh 4y ago

Brian also posted a short explanation on twitter: > 1/ Today I shared that I've made the difficult decision to reduce the size of our team at Coinbase by about 18%. The broader market downturn means that we need to be more mindful of costs as we head into a potential recession. > 2/ We also grew quite quickly over the past two years and have begun to operate less efficiently at our new size. It will take us some time to adjust to this new scale before growing again. > 3/ We've put some key programs in place to try and minimize the impact to our affected employees. Here is a note that I sent to the company earlier today with more information https://nitter.net/brian_armstrong/status/1536689760147603456?s=21 https://nitter.net/brian_armstrong/status/153668976014760345...

Patrol8394 4y ago

Their business is mostly based on tx fees, whereas in the “old” financial system tx fees are no more. Orange is the new black? I don’t see how they can build a long term sustainable business. They were lucky enough to go IPO during a BTC super hyped bull cycle. It is all downhill from here. If I was working at CB I would have probably cashed out post-IPO and moved on. I see no reason to work there post-IPO.

talhof8 4y ago

Why would one choose to work in a company (& industry) that's so volatile & unstable, that has gone through 4 major downturns in just 10y?

seydor 4y ago

Workforce size correlates with price of Bitcoin

anotherfounder 4y ago

Maybe the letter last week was more right than it was wrong.. they only forgot to include Brian in the list himself.

aruanavekar 4y ago

So many folks on payroll for such a fresh starter company. It is unbelievable how these companies grew at such speed in the last 2 years. Were most roles sales/MLM model to generate influence? 18% Coinbase - 1100 20% BlockFi - 170 5% Crypto - 260

i13e 4y ago

https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/COIN/financials/annual/balance-sheet https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/COIN/financials/annua... See 3000% debt growth in FY 2021. IANAE but that doesn't seem too good and probably explains their poor stock performance (down 85% since listing on Nasdaq)

pachico 4y ago

Still, he doesn't mention the ultimate reason for all this, which is that crypto is not sustainable and is a glorified vaporware that pretentiously tried to convince the world that it was a solution while, in reality, became simply a different problem. I don't think we are now in a better position than before crypto. I honestly think that we wouldn't miss it if it was gone. Sorry, I had to finally vomit my frustration about the subject.

jstx1 4y ago
Is that really relevant to Coinbase's business though? They're a fee collector - they can do great as long as they're collecting more in fees than it costs them to run the business, and that's true regardless of the net societal value of cryptocurrencies.
- rajup 4y ago
  Pretty relevant no? If more people realize it’s not sustainable and is a energy wasting scam, the less people trading leading to less fees.
- pachico 4y ago
  The whole industry around it is just making it worse.

benj111 4y ago

Isn't the promise of the web is that it's supposed to scale without a commensurate increase in man power. If so why are companies laying off staff when things get rough. Were these staff not needed to start with if so why were they employed to start with. Or are they eating the seed corn so to speak?

TekMol 4y ago

So they scaled from 1000 to 2000 employees in a year because ... There were new use cases enabled by crypto getting traction practically every week. We saw the opportunities but we needed to massively scale our team to be positioned to compete in a broad array of bets. ...yet they have not enabled their users to use the Lightning Network? I wonder why. The LN would enable all Coinbase users to do nearly instant and nearly free transactions. Wouldn't that help crypto adoption big time?

hudon 4y ago
They make their money from the large cryptocurrency trading market and focus on allowing more speculative tokens to be traded. They probably correctly assess that the market of people who want to use Bitcoin for daily transactions is comparatively insignificant.
- coinbasesteals 4y ago
colinmhayes 4y ago
Probably because they see that the vast majority of their users never withdraw their coins, and they probably prefer it that way.
ev1 4y ago
Out of my circle, the only people I know that actually spend BTC as BTC for transactions, usually for things like personal domains, hold their own wallet and don't touch exchanges. The people that heavily use exchanges hold it purely for speculation and/or gambling and have never once "spent" BTC.
EnderWT 4y ago
Coinbase has over 5000 employees. They hired 1200 employees in the first three months of this year. That's about the number they had in total just 2 years ago.

DogLover_ 4y ago

I find it weird/irresponsible that they could not foresee this. Did they really expect the market to grow forever without downturn.

frays 4y ago

I assume engineers will be part of these layoffs. Won't that mean there's a huge loss of knowledge if they're cutting their access right away? Even 2 weeks of notice often isn't enough for people to finish knowledge transfers.

chimon 4y ago

Taking this news in stride with the recent employee petition and the Twitter rants from leadership, the writing was on the wall.

oldstrangers 4y ago

It's shocking to me that people keep fucking up these money printing machines (read: crypto exchanges). Your incessant need for growth and share holder value completely rots your brain and you take a golden goose and burden it with so much overhead that it becomes unsustainable. Why?! Just sit back and collect exchange fees, become rich beyond your imagination (see FTX).

adbachman 4y ago
The "money printing machine" relies 100% on inducing new suckers to participate. If you sit still (i.e., don't spend $$ on customer acquisition) the whole system dies.
- oldstrangers 4y ago
  Yeah, you can have a marketing budget. No one said you couldn't. But the kind of growth Coinbase was going for was far beyond the scope of just "customer acquisition".

QuadrupleA 4y ago

Did this get buried by moderators? 610 points / 504 comments in 3 hours yet already down to #38.

pgz 4y ago
Was wondering the same, looks quite suspicious
sillysaurusx 4y ago
Probably yes, and it’s also the right call. There have been many recent articles about the economy, especially with regards to tech (and doubly so for crypto). Coinbase being a YC co doesn’t mean that layoffs are automatically worth a front page slot for more than a couple hours. It’s boring news, too. It gratifies no curiosity.
- QuadrupleA 4y ago
  I personally find the whole thing fascinating and a relevant intersection of tech and society, perfectly fitting here. A type of distributed database software quickly gains mass frenzy, people bidding up the price of the database entries, leading to a cambrian explosion of scams, fraud, hype, environmental destruction, ransomware and terrorism, and now undergoing what seems to be a catastrophic (and well-deserved IMHO) collapse.
sbierwagen 4y ago
Submissions with lots of comments get deranked by the anti-flamewar algorithm to push them off the front page. Don't worry, you'll be seeing plenty more stories about crypto businesses doing major layoffs over the next month.

rayquaza32 4y ago

smh

sergiotapia 4y ago

Why did this thread disappear from the frontpage? Shady.

sillysaurusx 4y ago
Because it’s boring news. The primary goal of HN is to gratify intellectual curiosity.

Justsignedup 4y ago

In a surprise to noone. When a CEO announces a "if you don't like us leave" or something crazy... I expect big layoffs happening. Its just a way to lay off without severance.

bastardoperator 4y ago

But they had money for an NBA finals commercial and can sponsor F1 racing. Looking forward to cancelling my account. If they'll fsck employees I can only imagine what they will do to customers.

iamgopal 4y ago

5000-6000 employees for coin base ? How ? What do they do ? A good 50-100 programmers could not have built it ?

kiralinux22 4y ago

joshka 4y ago

> Given the number of employees who have access to sensitive customer information This seems like the real news. Coinbase's CEO just admitted that their security posture is underdeveloped. > it was unfortunately the only practical choice, to ensure not even a single person made a rash decision that harmed the business or themselves. Not only that, they don't have a way to prevent malicious internal actors.

jstx1 4y ago

If we follow the weekly updates: 1. First a hiring "slowdown". 2. Hiring freeze and rescinded offers. 3. 18% layoffs. What's the reason behind announcing it in stages? Don't they receive much more negative publicity this way? Or are they really making decisions from one week for the next?

ohgodplsno 4y ago
It'll all be forgotten when they announce withdrawal freezes. Don't worry, it's for the Safety of the Network ™
- typeofhuman 4y ago
  Not your keys, not your coins. Don't keep your assets on an exchange.
  - krzyk 4y ago
    Yeah, off to do my evacuation to paper wallets and wait 4 years to go back.
gruez 4y ago
between 2 and 3, the bls released a new inflation report, and there was a subsequent market crash.
boringg 4y ago
Unfortunately it takes time to be able to actually to change expectation, craft and execute an exit plan properly. Also going through the motions signals what's happening for better or worse.
michaelt 4y ago
There's two ways you can announce a big corporate change: 1. A fully formed announcement, where everyone learns their fate on day 1. People will complain that it came out of nowhere, they weren't consulted, and that skulking managers sharpened their knives in secret. 2. A gradual announcement, where everybody knows well before the big announcement that something is coming. People will complain about uncertainty and sleepless nights spent fearing for their jobs. (Neither option is complaint-free, because there's no way of firing 18% of your workforce without putting people in the mood to complain)

londons_explore 4y ago

Did coinbase pay employees in dollars or crypto? Paying employees in coinbase-coins sounds very attractive, and if there is any group of people who would want that it's employees of a crypto company...

giancarlostoro 4y ago
I would assume they got paid in real currency. If they received crypto as a benefit, that's a whole other story.
moepstar 4y ago
I think they do/did - iirc, i read something in a thread on Reddit from one of their employees...
nfRfqX5n 4y ago
Cash and stock
f6v 4y ago
Hope no one was that stupid.
infecto 4y ago
Don't know if they still do it but ~8 years ago they were offering salary in bitcoin.

pluc 4y ago

synu 4y ago

As soon as you started seeing projects like NFTs of jars full of farts you had to know the end was coming.

nojito 4y ago

>If you are affected, you will receive this notification in your personal email, because we made the decision to cut access to Coinbase systems for affected employees. I realize that removal of access will feel sudden and unexpected, and this is not the experience I wanted for you. Given the number of employees who have access to sensitive customer information, it was unfortunately the only practical choice, to ensure not even a single person made a rash decision that harmed the business or themselves. Very interesting!! Cutting nearly 20% of your staff but not giving any opportunity for workload transitions take place.

bambax 4y ago
Wow. The language is nice but the behavior is horrendous. Also illegal in many parts of the world: IDK if they have employees in Europe but if they do it will be a big mess. Suddenly cutting off an employee from a company, with no way to even say goodbye to their former colleagues, is despicable. It really shows who you are. Let's hope they will have a hard time hiring back anyone in the future. Edit: as pointed out in many comments in this thread, this is apparently "normal" in the US. Point taken. (But if it is, then it's a little strange that the CEO felt the need to justify it.)
- nemo44x 4y ago
  It’s totally normal here and done to protect the company. It’s one of the reasons Americans are paid considerably more than Euros. Companies can take on more risk and pay more because they aren’t burdened with strict employee relationship laws. What Coinbase is giving in severance is quite generous. They don’t have to do that but it’s really nice and I’d say it improves their reputation. These types of things (layoffs) happen and they’re taking care of their ex-employees.
  - ausbah 4y ago
    most US companies wouldn't be giving severance anywhere like this, much less severance at all

atlasunshrugged 4y ago

It is fascinating just how quickly sentiments can change (both in the broader market but in crypto it seems to be exacerbated). That said, it's obvious that companies like these dramatically overhired and overspent on talent and were growing far beyond what the market could bear except in an extremely bull run subsidized by government largesse. Now that investors are losing their shirts on crypto and retail people who were playing with fun money have sports to bet on again and can go outside, I imagine the trading volume is going to keep declining dramatically, and they basically missed the NFT craze since their marketplace was late to the party. Hope their employees who have been with them for a while were able to sell at a reasonable time after IPO and aren't still in the lockup period.

melling 4y ago
“It is fascinating just how quickly sentiments can change” Sounds like a classic bubble that people have been warning about. Tulips all over again? https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/02/warren-buffett-wouldnt-spend-25-on-all-of-the-bitcoin-in-the-world.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/02/warren-buffett-wouldnt-s...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ChrisRR 4y ago
  Beanie Babies all over again
  - scoopertrooper 4y ago
    Worse, at least the Beanie Bros had warehouses full of stuffed toys to remind them of their mistakes in the end. All the cryptoists get is a lousy set of characters for their trouble.
    - omnibrain 4y ago
      And you still could use them for their original purpose: as a toy. A few months ago I read a post on Reddit who someone who is now a teacher uses them as a occasionally gift for pupils: https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/s5rz7s/comment/ht09pof/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/s5rz7s/c...

seibelj 4y ago

Crypto is clearly crashing but I’m more curious if a reckoning will hit FAANG, particularly Google. I know one person there who is the spouse of a good friend, and they make nearly 7 figures as a middle manager (although I’m unsure what happens with the stock declines and RSUs). Can these companies support legions of absurdly highly paid people? GOOG is down 25% this year, what will happen when it drops 50%?

UncleMeat 4y ago
Google also makes a huge amount of profit. In 2021, they made something like 350,000 of profit per full time employee. Ads are not nearly as fickle as crypto. Somebody making nearly 7 figures as a middle manager is only doing so because they are including stock appreciation in their compensation. That isn't the norm steady state, even for L7s.
kache_ 4y ago
I don't think you understand how much money google makes :P they might slow growth, but I really can't see them laying off people
randomsearch 4y ago
Google is a solid business with a bright future. If they actually worked out their cloud offering then it would be even brighter. Crypto is not comparable to companies like Google. If you’re looking for tech companies that might suffer, you’re looking for one trick ponies that can’t innovate - maybe look at Facebook. Google has a strong focus on engineering and academic smarts. That has big downsides that might prevent them from making truly great user-centred products, but it’s also a robust philosophy that will ensure that they endure. I expect Google to be around in 2100. Facebook no. Coinbase absolutely not.
bombcar 4y ago
I believe that most grants are "money value of stocks at time of grant" so if you're getting 1m over 4 years, you get however many shares 1m would have bought at the time of the grant. This of course means that if you were granted just before a downturn, the "reason to stay" isn't as powerful as it was before. And I think the big names will start slowing down hiring and offering less, probably salaries stay the same but the grants start to decline.

prescriptivist 4y ago

Can't believe they are still airing the Long Live Crypto ad during the NBA playoffs. Just saw one last night.

stuff4ben 4y ago
That money has already been spent. No way they'd be getting that back.
higeorge13 4y ago
It’s also funny that all F1 teams have crypto sponsors and half the tracks are sponsored by crypto.com this year.
bottled_poe 4y ago
Right before inflation takes off, “staples” stadium was renamed to “crypto.com” stadium - at once a comical metaphor and omen.
- jpadkins 4y ago
  reminds me of the phenomenon of a new record for tallest building in the world signals a major recession.
- puranjay 4y ago
  and Crypto.com laid off 5% of its workforce just yesterday
  - wp381640 4y ago
    It's crazy how much of a marketing footprint they have considering they're only the 19/20th largest exchange I think the chances of them seeing out their stadium sponsorship are near 0%
    - xtracto 4y ago
      I was amazed they are so prevalent in the Formula 1 races. I've seen them and OKX plastered around race track and cars.

square_usual 4y ago

Puts in stark contrast the relatively recent ad they ran for the NBA finals mocking crypto skeptics. Hmm, I wonder how much that ad cost...

i13e 4y ago
It was probably a rhetorical question but about a 30 second ad slot for the super bowl this year cost $7m so quite a lot

hftthrowaway22 4y ago

It’s been pretty interesting watching YC backed Coinbase get absolutely crushed by FTX, which has a higher % of crypto trading volume despite having less than 10% of the headcount. Crypto is a zero sum game, and the old Paul Graham essays and other tired VC dogmas really only work in positive sum games. FTX was founded by traders which is valuable when the ultimate purpose of the crypto industry is to separate uninformed people from their money.

grey-area 4y ago
FTX is also going to feel a lot of pain when the crypto market crash completes. None of these companies are IMO sustainable without mass interest in cryptocurrencies, which is rapidly fading as people realise they're not going to get rich quick.
- kolbe 4y ago
  This is the case for most market makers in whatever markets they're in. A crash usually produces a huge trading windfall, and then the subsequent "recession" leaves people with little money to invest/gamble with. FTX's traders are veterans of the industry, and they understand the need to be lean when order flow is light, and the need to make as much as possible when it's hot. Coinbase just watched the best two years of trading pass in front of their eyes, and failed to monetize it even to 10% of its potential. If they're lucky, they will get another opportunity to do things right in 5 years. But the trading graveyard is filled with people/companies like Coinbase who did really well for a year because they lucked into a good position, but who should have done 10x better. But then the real players see the opportunity, and run the Coinbases of the world off.
- codebolt 4y ago
  FTX is in deep with Tether. I expect they'll pull some tricks out of their collective hats to avoid a complete collapse.
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    Pulling tricks needs a new sucker pipeline. But sucker pipelines will dry up as old suckers get burned and money is generally drying up due to interest rates.

Proven 4y ago

chrisseaton 4y ago

> Coinbase has survived through four major crypto winters I don't understand - has crypto been around long enough to have winters? When were they?

bogomipz 4y ago
I read that and had the same thought. "Winters" at least in the context of AI which is where I believe the term in this context originated has been closer to 10 years [1]. It seems as though downturn would be more appropriate. Perhaps "winter" is becoming the preferred nomenclature because it's less alarming sounding? [1] https://www.actuaries.digital/2018/09/05/history-of-ai-winters/ https://www.actuaries.digital/2018/09/05/history-of-ai-winte...
the_biot 4y ago
You ever get the feeling cryptocurrency-related companies and a large chunk of their customer base live in their own reality? I think they have seasons now.
oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
If we're talking Bitcoin: - Early 2014 ($1,000 -> $300) - Late 2018/Early 2018 ($19,500 -> $6,800) - April 2021 ($63,000 -> $35,000) - Nov 2021-Now ($67,000-> $22,000)
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  I think 'winter' implies a long period of dormancy. The 'AI winter' was like a decade long. These were normal corrections.
  - shawabawa3 4y ago
    in each case there was a 3-4 year period of relative dormancy because the next hype cycle
- rexreed 4y ago
  Sounds like typical market swings and gyrations in highly speculative markets. Happens in other boom-bust speculation assets from gold to oil to tulips. Are these "winters" or just wild market swings?

fallat 4y ago

To everyone: 2017 had the exact same pattern. Coinbase is suffering this time because they didn't learn at all the lessons that happened to the companies in 2017. For example, you will not see this happen with Kraken. This is normal, nothing to see here.

randomsearch 4y ago
Anyone thinking this is like 2017 and hodling or investing on that basis needs to pay a lot more attention the global economy.
capableweb 4y ago
Coinbase has survived something like 4 downturns before, the previous ones on the same strategy that they are employing now. So not sure what lessons they are not applying, that others are?
- hcmacro 4y ago
  In which prior downturn did the valuation of Coinbase (and other unicorns) get nuked -90%?
  - chrisco255 4y ago
    Coinbase is the only publicly traded exchange that I know of? Coinbase wasn't public until early '21. So sure, VCs might have piled more money into Coinbase at higher valuations, but all of that VC activity and valuation is an inexact science without a liquid market. At any rate, off the top of my head, the dot com era had a similar vibe. And several tech firms are down 75+% this year so far (Netflix included).
  - Redoubts 4y ago
    In which prior downturn were they even listed?
    - hcmacro 4y ago

senttoschool 4y ago

So when the CEO said "leave". He was trying his hardest to get get his employees to leave so he doesn't have to pay severance.

chitowneats 4y ago
Severance is chump change to a company like Coinbase. It was a filter to find the disgruntled employees.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  I've seen companies do really stupid things over small amounts of money. It all depends where budget is allocated.
I_am_tiberius 4y ago
I don't think so. I assume that he asked people to leave because he wanted fewer people included in the layoff who actually care about the company.
- caust1c 4y ago
  The above statements are not mutually exclusive.

blowski 4y ago

Why has the crypto boom and bust lined up so closely with the COVID pandemic? Is it a coincidence or is there some underlying cause?

FabHK 4y ago
Matt Levine's theory (regarding Robinhood mostly, but maybe applicable) is that people were bored (no sports to watch, can't go out, no cinema, no pubs), and so they started gambling on the markets. Additionally, many people reduced their spending (can't go out, no cinema, no pubs), and many of them retained their income or even augmented it (stimulus checks). So, discretionary income and fewer choices on what to spend it?
raiyu 4y ago
When covid started sporting events were cancelled and the general population received cash stimulus and with the ease of use of iPhone apps a lot of people that were used to gambling on sporting events switched to crypto. This led to an increase price which then attracted the second set of people and so forth.
pavlov 4y ago
Apart from the good economical explanations other replies have brought up, there's also a link between crypto and Covid-19 via the rise of conspiracy theories. Crypto is associated with some types of conspiratorial thinking: goldbug libertarians, ramblings about globalist bankers and George Soros, etc. The pandemic gave a boost to conspiracy theories overall, and crypto was a beneficiary.
atentaten 4y ago
It's a wealth transfer.
chrisseaton 4y ago
People needed a hobby, I think. Now they're outside again.
- ace32229 4y ago

nfRfqX5n 4y ago

how can anyone still trust this company as a prospective employee? I guess if they aren’t hiring it doesn’t matter but long term it’s not a good look

lostcolony 4y ago
I never really understood why people wanted to work for them in the first place. I knew they had large RSU packages (probably rather depressing now for the people tempted by it), but their culture always sounded horrible. Everything I saw screamed "you'll be expected to work > 40 hours every week", and even when they talked about culture it was hustle, make the company money. Which is probably more honest than most companies, but being so on the nose with the exploitation normalizes the expectation.
jaywalk 4y ago
It's nice that you think Coinbase actually has a "long term" to worry about.

johnbellone 4y ago

Anyone affected by this action and looking for work feel free to reach out. The folks I met from Coinbase are stellar and would love to work with you!

Barrera 4y ago

> If you are affected, you will receive this notification in your personal email, because we made the decision to cut access to Coinbase systems for affected employees. I realize that removal of access will feel sudden and unexpected, and this is not the experience I wanted for you. Given the number of employees who have access to sensitive customer information, it was unfortunately the only practical choice, to ensure not even a single person made a rash decision that harmed the business or themselves. How typical is this? Is he really talking about the hot wallet and/or cold storage? Those claiming that this is a "crypto" sentiment thing should consider the possibility that the front page of HN will be filled with stories like this from all over the economy within one month.

t_mann 4y ago
In finance it's pretty common practice (and in that sense Coinbase is similar to a broker). I remember stories about how half (?) the people working at UBS London came to work one morning to find that their badges didn't unlock the entrance gates anymore. And lots of stories like that in the years following the 2008 crash.
- rchaud 4y ago
  Wouldn't their Blackberries be remotely deactivated first?
  - CydeWeys 4y ago
    Phones stop working for lots of reasons other than "I've been fired". I'd still show up to work. It'd be pretty bad if your phone indeed had just stopped working, and rather going in to get it fixed, you just assumed you were fired and then stopped going into work, thus actually getting fired for not showing up.
  - jabroni_salad 4y ago
    BES doing something reliably? That was a good laugh, thanks.
  - 4y ago

atlasunshrugged 4y ago

> If you are affected, you will receive this notification in your personal email, because we made the decision to cut access to Coinbase systems for affected employees. I realize that removal of access will feel sudden and unexpected, and this is not the experience I wanted for you. Given the number of employees who have access to sensitive customer information, it was unfortunately the only practical choice, to ensure not even a single person made a rash decision that harmed the business or themselves. Brutal. Not even the quintessential mass zoom call?

Melting_Harps 4y ago
> Brutal. Not even the quintessential mass zoom call? Bravo, Armstrong just put himself in good company of uncouth CEOs: I hope now no self-respecting person EVER applies to CONbase ever again and they die a slow irrelevant death.
duxup 4y ago
I’ve had video conference calls worse than a cold email with the facts.
- atlasunshrugged 4y ago
  Absolutely, both awful, but I don't know, I personally would at least want to be "told live" what was happening and in an avenue where I could potentially ask some followup questions synchronously.

itsthecourier 4y ago

It's like decimation, but harder

Markoff 4y ago

I wonder how many cryptoexchanges stop withdrawavals "for technical reasons".

kylecordes 4y ago
Many/all of them might throttle withdrawals for actual technical reasons, if many customers run for the exit at the same time. The question is, which ones catch up and resume... and which ones actually ran off with the coins long ago. Maybe someone should make a betting / prediction-market site for this. Traded in boring USD please :-)

xnorswap 4y ago

Seems absurd that 18% can be laid off without an extended consultation period, proper notice, proper protocol of who should be laid off, etc. If any UK staff are affected, then I would talk to citizens' advice (or a solicitor if you can afford it) asap. Know your rights: https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/consultation https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/consultation You’re entitled to a consultation with your employer if you’re being made redundant. This involves speaking to them about: why you’re being made redundant any alternatives to redundancy If your employer is making up to 19 redundancies, there are no rules about how they should carry out the consultation. If they’re making 20 or more redundancies at the same time, the collective redundancy rules apply.

andrewingram 4y ago
You're right about consultation, but there's a sneaky trick to get around it. Simply tell the affected people they've been selected for voluntary redundancy, which comes with a much more attractive severance package. If they don't volunteer, you then forcibly make them redundant -- with a less attractive package, they can then enter into consultancy if there are enough of then. When this happened to me, 30% of the company was laid off, everyone took the "voluntary" package, no consultancy took place.
xeromal 4y ago
I don't really understand why anyone would want to continue working for a company that doesn't want you. Give me my severance (14 weeks for Coinbase) and let me go find something better to do.
PhoenixReborn 4y ago
I suspect most of the layoffs are in the US, where no such protections apply.
- Maxious 4y ago
  > California’s Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN Act). Under this Act, the right of employers to lay workers off for reasons bordering on business necessity is curtailed. Employers who plan to lay 50 or more employees off within a 30-day period must give them a 60-day notice before taking such actions.

vishnugupta 4y ago

Compare and contrast CB’s hiring with that of FTX[1] Coinbase “ We have now exceeded the limit of how many new employees we can integrate while growing our productivity. For the past few months, adding new employees has made us less efficient, not more. We have seen ourselves slow down considerably due to coordination headwinds, and difficulty fully integrating new team members.” FTX “ It’s a race–between how quickly new employees understand the company's culture, and how quickly people are hired. The faster you hire, the harder it is to keep everyone on the same page.…. we wanted to make sure we could actually integrate everyone we hired into FTX's working culture.” [1] https://twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/1533946713366568962 https://twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/1533946713366568962

UncleMeat 4y ago
The FTX quote applies in so many circumstances. Tons of companies, organizations, and even teams have boom/bust hiring. No headcount for ages and then BOOM suddenly piles of headcount. This makes culture and knowledge sharing almost impossible.
- kolbe 4y ago
  FTX is interested in being a real business. I think a lot of people the past several years have failed to try to become a real sustainable business, and instead have been pawns in Benchmark's and Tiger Global's schemes to flip companies into the S&P or into a F500 acquisition. CEOs in the former build responsibly. CEOs in the latter build fast to scare the incumbents into an acquisition or co-investment to push the price high enough to get it into the S&P.

Nullabillity 4y ago

> I am the CEO, and the buck stops with me. I assume that means Brian is part of the 18% then, right?

mancerayder 4y ago

Are crypto assets held by Coinbase at risk if this continues? The old adage, store it on your own wallet, has its own disadvantages (like proving ownership more than 12 months and losing it).

wiihack 4y ago
Well, they say your assets are "...protected, secure, and yours" [1]. Does that statement really holds up when the company goes bankrupt? I personally don't think so [1] https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/top-of-mind/top-of-mind/a-message-to-our-customers https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/top-of-mind/top-of-min...

T3RMINATED 4y ago