21 ms·

StarBook 14-inch

642 points by capableweb 5y ago

varispeed 5y ago
Given that I can easily see pixels on my XPS 15 4k, I wish this one had higher resolution. Otherwise, I am not sure how an experience would be different than using a few years old laptop? Maybe I am not a target audience.
nukemaster 5y ago
Funny, without js all the specs say "0." I guess they wanted it animated for dramatic affect and now you get something very much the opposite, like they're sarcastically selling you a rock. >0th gen Intel processor >0GB of memory >0hrs of battery life >0GB/S SSD write speed
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Yeah they would just need to add some <noscript>...
  - tailspin2019 5y ago
    This problem happens even with JS enabled. They’re supposed to be dynamic as you scroll but it doesn’t work properly so you end up staring at zeros for quite a while!
octoberfranklin 5y ago
This thing "propels" the Intel Management Engine "experience", which is about as anti-open-source as it gets, folks...
- h-w 5y ago
  Has intel me disabled out of the box and runs coreboot.
mjhagen 5y ago
Why do all these beautiful and interesting new laptop designers hate inverted-T arrow keys?
- dm319 5y ago
  It'd be cool if laptops came with programmable keyboards and layers.
pelorat 5y ago
Looks interesting, but TB4 is a deal-breaker. Why not use USB-PD instead?
- h-w 5y ago
  The tb4 port does power delivery
KronisLV 5y ago
Hmm, seems like currently the costs of the more "open" laptops are around this: StarBook ~1000€ Librem 14 ~1250€ Framework ~925€ I can see why they'd focus on this price point, but what are some of the better budget options? Best i can think of are: StarLite ~500€ (available soon) Pinebook Pro ~250€ (out of stock) Raspberry Pi 400 ~100€ (not a true laptop, but interesting) I actually bought my x86 notebook for around 200€, which was perfect for note taking in University and now occasionally serves as a low-power long battery life web browsing or typing machine: https://techbite.eu/en/laptopy/laptop-zin-3-14-1 https://techbite.eu/en/laptopy/laptop-zin-3-14-1 (i got a slightly older revision) That said, it seems like you should only go for the more popular devices so you don't run into stupid weirdness with drivers, even in popular *nix distros (4 GB of RAM just wasn't enough for usable Windows), for example, that manufacturer i linked had problems with the fingerprint scanner in the model i got. Of course, what i'm after might be better for those who prefer desktop computing for most tasks and only need something for being on the go occasionally (or just are frugal, like me, due to only being able to make savings slowly).
lysecret 5y ago
I will never go away from a 3:2 Laptop ever again. I am using the Huawei 14, bought it for 700. The only issue is that i cant replace the RAM, and the camera is really bad, being behind the keyboard.
- mizzao 5y ago
  What if they started making 4:3 laptops again?
Reason077 5y ago
"Minimalist design". And yet bristling with USB-A ports. Hmmm.
Sinidir 5y ago
How does switching to a german keyboard add about 230 bucks to the price ????
- mpfundstein 5y ago
  probably custom manufacturing process due to no market share in germany
- Narishma 5y ago
  It doesn't. What does is going from the i3 to an i7.
IYasha 5y ago
Very cool! Not exactly to _my_ personal taste, but objectively a very nice project! Kudos for USB-A 3.0. Love the openness, Coreboot and the configurator. The warranty is impressive. I wish more products like this existed! On the design downsides (imho): Why MicroSD? There's enough space to put a BD-RE drive, not to mention full-size SD. The battery is not user-serviceable, judging by the looks. Not made of 18650, not hot-swappable. And the power button... there... err... ugghh... just.. WHY?? (I'd definitely hit it instead of DEL, which was placed there an all of my previous laptops).
Rooster61 5y ago
Has anyone here had experience with installing and running Windows on one of these? Not for me, but my wife is in need of a laptop, and I'm wondering how well it would run on this platform. I personally would love to run one of these for work, but IT no likey Linux boxes. Will have to upgrade to an M1 sooner or later (my 2015 MBP is on its last legs).
- gentleman11 5y ago
  I would also dual boot for the few times per year I need to do photo editing
super_mario 5y ago
Looks like a great machine, however, the screen resolution is a little disappointing. Why can't we have retina screens on non-Apple hardware? Is this due to Linux limitations or manufacturers are just "cheap"?
Mikeb85 5y ago
No 6000 series Ryzen... Looks decent though.
dangus 5y ago
No high DPI, no buy.
neycoda 5y ago
STOP WITH THE MINIMALISM. I don't want my laptop to have _the least amount of features_, I want it to have _as many features as makes it useful to me_. These are not fashion accessories, these are life productivity machines. I need 4 USB-A/C ports (at least 2 that are 3.x and fast-charging), an Ethernet jack in the back (not in the way on the side), a lid that doesn't get stuck at 120 degrees, fans in the back, a monitor port (preferably in the back out of the way), a hard drive light, separate volume buttons, 14-16" screen that isn't crap, headphone jack, and easy to upgrade RAM and hard drive. Laptops these days are RIDICULOUS, poorly-designed, wanna-be Jony Ive slabs that look pretty and are frustrating. We had good designs years ago! What happened?! They've gotten hard to use unless you're a coffee-shop blogger, they used to be easy from kitchen-table user to weekend coder.
userda22 5y ago
I am just amazed that people are still buying apple, I mean you literally waive any right of privacy when you do!
rawoke083600 5y ago
Looks good ! Can't seem to find the GPU specs ? This is such a terrible-time(opportunity wise) to build/buy a laptop: On the one hand, the newer much more energy efficient intel cpu's 12xxx are out, and if you want to go Ryzen, you should wait for the new Ryzen Rembrandt(?) APU (new GPU RDNA2) Still looks very nice :)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ManyPeopleSay 5y ago
The screen is atrocious. Apple has been using HIDPI 220ppi displays on macbooks since 2012. No we dont need a matte display. Ever see a matte smartphone? linux does NOT SUPPORT fractional scaling.
jeroen79 5y ago
wow 230€ to change the keyboard layout
humanistbot 5y ago
I love this, but I just can't quit the Thinkpad trackpoint with physical mouse buttons between the keyboard and top of the touchpad.
- flatiron 5y ago
  $930 buys you a heck of a good used thinkpad as well with great Linux compatibility.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  HP zBooks support linux (not coreboot though) and have trackpoint plus mouse buttons between keyboard and top of the touchpad. They are heavy though.
  - koiueo 5y ago
    Not all trackpoints are the same. ThinkPads are unfortunately uncontested.
    - glowingly 5y ago
      IMO, not all Thinkpads. My E485 was noticeably worse than my X1C6. Never seemed to track as well, nor did it seem to resist "sticking" as much. I don't quite know to describe sticking, but it's like when an INU (or a strain gauge in this case) fails to properly self calibrate, and it decides that an objectively false input is true. Something similar to video game controllers with "stick drift," but not quite the same afaik. Aside: Ultimately, I can take it or leave it w.r.t. the trackpoint. A good touchpad can do wonders. In tight spaces I use my thumbs then rely on decent tap-to-click and inertial dragging implementations (present since ~2008). Though in the recent years, I haven't had to commute to work by train or bus anymore, nor have I had to really travel by airplane. When typing, I mostly rely on keyboard commands for text-heavy work. I do find quite a bit of use in many thinkpad's KB layout still preserving home/end/insert/pgup/pgdn without needing to resort to "fn" key twister games, even if newer Thinkpad layouts are worse and worse for this (insert key got eaten by fn in some newer laptops, and there are obviously longstanding debates over the 7row vs 6 row). None of the griping about the "swapped" ctrl/fn key positions would even matter if functions weren't being hidden behind fn keys in the first place, negating the need for a fn key at all. I do appreciate the thinkpad's clustered f1-f12 keys, which make common f keys quicker and easier to find. I've never used the touchpad on any of my thinkpads. I think Lenovo have been okay stewards of decent laptops. Not great, especially relative to newer developments on the market.
BSOhealth 5y ago
Website doesn’t work all that great on mobile. But I’d be supportive of a Linux laptop that can market itself to regular consumers rather than already-converted Linux folks.
- hackmiester 5y ago
  I had to laugh when I scrolled down and it claimed to have a 0th generation processor
  - BSOhealth 5y ago
    Agreed, the labels for some of the numbers never loaded (or the CSS just borked) and it was just a vertical list of random numbers.
    - mypalmike 5y ago
      It worked fine on mine but it's a weird and confusing gimmick.
throwaway81523 5y ago
Looks interesting, starts at $930 which is not too steep vs other products in the same space, price of upgrades is not stated which is a bit scary. Several Linux distros tested including Ubuntu, but Debian is not in the list. Appears to have a non-removable battery with nothing said about replacing it. And of course the CPU (whether you pick Intel or AMD) is full of blobs, management engine, etc. I didn't notice a mention of a built in microphone but it is a standard thing to find on laptops, so what I was hoping to see was a way to hard disconnect it. Edit: aha, I see replacement parts including batteries are available if you select "parts" from the menu. Ordering screen alert says "Production for the StarLite's has now finished, and are in the final stages of testing. Orders placed now are estimated to ship out in 2-3 weeks." There are some unstated "if"s in that, so I would say until people actually receive units, it doesn't quite exist. Anyway I will keep an eye out for this. I'm going to need another laptop at some point and this seems like a possibility, as does the Framework, etc.
- Shalomboy 5y ago
  > There are some unstated "if"s in that, so I would say until people actually receive units, it doesn't quite exist. Kudos for being wary of marketing copy. I'd like to note that StarLabs has been shipping laptops of their own design for a few years now. They've been super transparent about manufacturing lead times and their order queue too. I don't own anything of theirs yet, but I've been keeping an eye on them long enough to say I appreciate their way of doing business.
- avrionov 5y ago
  If you click on configure, you can see the price of all upgrades.
- jancsika 5y ago
  > And of course the CPU (whether you pick Intel or AMD) is full of blobs, management engine, etc. And of course it can't do fast homomorphic encryption either, so that's a hard pass here.
  - elromulous 5y ago
ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago
How does the touchpad and the 2 finger scroll compare to the MacBooks? Having used those I haven't found anything matching those.
- k1rcher 5y ago
  Interested in this too, as well as how it compares to the Framework
  - freedomben 5y ago
    I can't comment on the StarBook, but the Framework touchpad is really great. I had an early model that had a slightly annoying out-of-the-box issue where I had to click kind of hard, but after doing that it works great now. Two-finger scroll is super smooth, and it properly detects 1/2/3 finger gestures, etc.
    - VTimofeenko 5y ago
      I think my frame.work is doing the "kinda hard" click thing too. Did you just break it in, or change something mechanically? I mostly use the keyboard, so it's a very minor annoyance to me.
      - freedomben 5y ago
        ah yes, let me find the instructions! EDIT: this is what fixed it for me: > Pressing the bottom center of the touchpad firmly a few times has resolved the issue in some cases.[1] Said in a slightly different way: > There were also a small number of early units produced that may have contact issues on the physical switch on the Touchpad. Try pressing the bottom middle of the Touchpad firmly a few times to see if that resolves the issue. If it does not, please contact Framework Support.[2] [1]: https://community.frame.work/t/known-issues-on-early-framework-laptops/4551 https://community.frame.work/t/known-issues-on-early-framewo... [2]: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/touchpad-not-working-SJQQqt2Hu https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/touchpad-not-working-...
imilk 5y ago
I can't really tell from the website, do they make their own laptops or are these rebranded Clevos?
- blaaee 5y ago
  wonder about this myself
  - h-w 5y ago
    They make their own
- CaptainMarvel 5y ago
  Some previous laptops were rebranded Clevo, but the new StarBooks are their own design.
- userbinator 5y ago
  Clevos are pretty good as far as right-to-repair is concerned --- they have good service manuals with schematics.
tazjin 5y ago
Looks decent. From the title it seemed like this only supported AMD, but you can get it with Intel CPUs, too. I've been burned in recent years by trying to use AMD stuff with Linux and just running into even more weird, minor hardware incompatibilities than usual. For now I would not buy an AMD laptop again.
- qbasic_forever 5y ago
  Make sure to use the latest kernels. My Ryzen 2500U laptop has finally been fully stable and usable after about the 5.10 kernel. There were unfortunately a ton of bugs and issues with Ryzen, especially the APUs, in the earlier kernels. Ubuntu 21.10 or similar derivatives have been solid though.
  - tazjin 5y ago
    I do, I use linuxPackages_latest from nixpkgs. On my first AMD machine (2020 Threadripper) I even made and carried a kernel patch to correctly address audio output pins for a while. Some of that works upstream now, but the AMD-compatible mainboards are spread too thin to be well-supported.
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    As another data point, my 5600g (APU) desktop is quite stable with Linux 5.15 and latest stable mesa.
CaptainMarvel 5y ago
This is like the Framework laptop but it's a UK-based company that has been around for years, and with an explicit focus on Linux compatibility to boot. I'm surprised I haven't come across them before as I've been looking for Linux-compatible laptops for years. They do some things better than Framework such as supporting Ryzen processors, and seem a bit cheaper overall. The battery life seems like it would be better. They have a spare parts store as well and a full disassembly guide as well as an "open warranty". I was never a fan of Framework's swappable ports. The biggest disadvantage seems to be that the screen is bog-standard 16:9. I'm curious on the quality of the speakers, webcam, keyboard, and trackpad. I have a feeling they will not be great - in comparison to a Macbook at any rate. From reviews it looks like the trackpad is poor because it is not whole-trackpad clickable, and the keyboard is also poor due to the short key travel. Are there any other decent alternatives available in the UK?
- 3np 5y ago
  > The biggest disadvantage seems to be that the screen is bog-standard 16:9. Bigger than that IMO is 14" @ 1080p. It's just too little for daily use for me. Framework are so far the only ones in this market segment who have ever marketed >1080p laptop displays AFAIK. I have a hard time understanding why there is such a lack of higher-res panel options across the market, even when seemingly all other relevant specs are high-end. I'm sure like usual when this comes up, some people will come reply with "you can't make out the difference anyway", which is just not true. Some of us prefer smaller fonts and higher information density. 8px font size is just less ergonomic and more tiring for the eyes. For 16:9 14" I just won't consider anything below 1440p.
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    I agree. Tho it also depends on how often it's a pure laptop, and how often it's a "desktop" with two larger primary monitors connected. I'd probably opt for 1440p+, but given the rest and the price maybe not. For others, 1080 might be just fine.
  - ksec 5y ago
    >I have a hard time understanding why there is such a lack of higher-res panel options across the market There are plenty of options, just most of them aren't cheap, or fitting in targeted price range. There isn't a lack of high-res panel in supply, but a lack of high-res panel in demand. Or in other words, no-one apart from Apple (not that Apple gave its user a choice, but let's ignore this for a moment ) manage to market Retina or high-res panel and created enough demand to sustain a different upgrade option or SKUs. This then cycles back, without economy of scale, not just a vendor but the whole industry, high-res panel do not enjoy the unit cost reduction as standardise low -res panel ( or 1080P panel, which isn't really "low-res" ). So the cost of these specific panel are far higher, increasing BOM, increase RSP, etc. etc. Next question that always comes after this answer is always; >"But we have higher prices SKUs, it is not like there isn't a demand for current SKUs +$100 / 200" Yes. But given the option to choose between paying extra $100 / $200, the market tends to flavour for more memory, faster CPU or better GPU. Not higher-res panel.
smm11 5y ago
Not that the XPS 13 is the best ever made, but.
gigatexal 5y ago
Might have found my Intel MacBook replacement
CameronNemo 5y ago
I was under the impression that no AMD processor is supported by coreboot. Why would this no name vendor be the first to get that working?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  Not no AMD processor; Chromebooks use AMD+coreboot (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Coreboot-In-Early-2020 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Core...). Beyond that, I couldn't say; it may be as simple as "nobody else cared".
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    Oh that is quite interesting. I did not even know that there were AMD Chromebooks. I don't know who at google is forcing hardware vendors to publish sources, but they are really awesome. Several arm vendors seem to only publish sources for their Chromebook SoCs (e.g. Rockchip, mediatek).
aidenn0 5y ago
It would be nice if there were any DP on the AMD version; I assume the Intel does DP over thunderbolt and the AMD does not?
- goosedragons 5y ago
  It says in the specification it has DP alt mode for the USB C. You just don't get thunderbolt on the AMD models. This is pretty typical and it's the same case on the AMD ThinkPads.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    Thanks; I feel like I need a rubric for grading USB C connectors because I cannot keep all the zillion things straight.
rob_c 5y ago
btw, just so you know, it doesn't come with arch :P
tailspin2019 5y ago
If anyone from Star Labs is here, I’d encourage a bit of a QA review of your site!
nukenuke 5y ago
When I loaded the website it was slowly going incrementally through different intel generations. So I thought for a second they were offering versions with older intel chips. But the page was just animating slowly.
p1mrx 5y ago
Do I understand correctly that this is capable of charging over USB-C, and includes a USB-C power supply, but the default charging cable is USB-C -> DC barrel jack? So you can charge over USB-C, but only if you buy a C-to-C cable and tie up the single USB-C port.
- kelnos 5y ago
  I think it's good that they have the barrel-jack option for people who want to use the USB-C port for something other than charging, but I would just prefer they ditch two of (or even all three) USB-A ports and have 3 or 4 USB-C ports instead.
- hakfoo 5y ago
  Maybe they figure people would rather use the C port for something else? I feel like a barrel jack may be more resilient, if you're plugging it in twice a day.
  - ezfe 5y ago
    I've got a USB-charging laptop I plug in every day for over a year and the cable still clicks in satisfyingly, fwiw
  - Anunayj 5y ago
    Yup, at the same time it allows people to use USB-C for charging, which might easily be the case with some of those usb-c hubs that also provide charge to the device.
- xanaxagoras 5y ago
  System76 machines are like that too, or at least the Lemur Pro is.
stakkur 5y ago
Nah. You know what I'd buy? A proven laptop brand that a third party revamped/Coreboot-ed/etc. and resold. These mediocre, unproven, semi-bespoke laptops with third-rate keyboards and so-so screens (the two features that really matter to me) are never compelling enough.
Havoc 5y ago
Tiny bit puzzled by the random USB2 port? Seems out of place given rest of specs. Is there a specific reason why that would be desirable over another USB3?
- MBCook 5y ago
  I would guess that it’s available on the chipset so they added it. Maybe nothing more than that.
koiueo 5y ago
It looks great, but maaan, that keyboard is terrible - f1-f12 aren't split in 4-keys blocks - backspace, enter, etc. aren't the right-most keys. No additional spacing too on the right - cursor block with crippled up/down Touch-typing would be a nightmare. But backlight, yeah...
- ehecatl42 5y ago
  - Trackpad not centred on space - no symetry of bottom row modifiers (and those aren't speaker grills either; just aesthetic markings)
blkhawk 5y ago
I was interested, but sadly the German keyboards are only available in combination with an intel 11th gen mobile CPU. I really wanted the Ryzen variant. I wonder if the keyboard can be bought separately - the layout at least looked compatible with that. Another point against it is the screen resolution - I really wanted to have a 1440p screen this time around.
headsoup 5y ago
I hope it does well and the range ends up expanding a bit, it would be nice to see some options with discreet GPUs (and higher res displays). The pricing seems reasonable and more support for Linux is always welcome
rectang 5y ago
Not to be confused with Starr Labs, makers of the Ztar — a high-end MIDI guitar-like instrument. https://www.starrlabs.com/ https://www.starrlabs.com/
kajaktum 5y ago
Damn, I wished I had bought the mini-PC from them instead! I really don't understand the appeal of laptops, it only makes sense for the people that is really on the move like university students or blogger. Even then, they only need cheap laptop for browsing (cue memory hod jokes). That or you prefer to do your work at public spaces like libraries or cafes. What's the point of spending huge sums of money on a laptop that performs 1/3 compared to its PC equivalent? You're also stuck with that keyboard and monitor for the rest of its natural life.
- jamal-kumar 5y ago
  I travel constantly and get to do my job from a hammock instead of some ass-destroying desk and chair. A desktop computer would be like a ball and chain against that level of freedom.
  - oblio 5y ago
    > I travel constantly and get to do my job from a hammock instead of some ass-destroying desk and chair. I highly doubt that the ergonomics of the hammock setup you have going are any good. And by ergonomics, I mean RSI and other related posture injuries.
    - jamal-kumar 5y ago
      I'm in my 30s, been doing this since I've been 23, and absolutely zero issues related to that so far. Everyone I know who has RSI from this line of work seems to be unlucky mostly, so maybe it's just me, but I think it's mostly a matter of getting up and walking or running around for around 15 minutes for every hour of sedentary activity, stretches, underwater ocean swimming for the lungs... All things WAY more likely to give me an RSI just from stepping in the wrong place or whatever other exercise-related injury. Not like I spend hours in strange positions acting like I'm a three toed sloth
- oblio 5y ago
  What do you do if you have to work in the office and there's a meeting where you want to demo something? Or you want to quickly look up an email with something you want to show to others?
X-Istence 5y ago
Why only a single USB-C port? Almost everything I buy these days has only USB-C ports/cables/charging. It's gotten to the point now that I am increasingly frustrated with the fact that there are no good USB-C capable hubs that take a USB-C USB 4 and turn it into an 8 port USB-C hub. With a mix of 10 Gbps/5 Gbps/480 Mbps speeds. I can get plenty of USB-C to USB-A hubs, but that is not what I want.
- stragies 5y ago
  Yes, please! Ideally, also with POE .bt Power Supply possibility (upto 80W), and compliant to USB PerPortPowerSetting specification, to be able to toggle power to each port comfortably with uhubctl/Home_assistant/etc.
- eatbitseveryday 5y ago
  https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/ https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/ Gives you power and three usbc.
- derefr 5y ago
  I believe that when companies do this, it's because there's only a single Thunderbolt controller on-board the host, and they think that giving people two USB-C ports, where either port can do Thunderbolt, but you can't use two Thunderbolt devices (in actual Thunderbolt mode, where you're passing through PCIe lanes) at once, would be too confusing. So they force you to buy a hub or dock — pushing the consumer's blame for this confusing quagmire onto the peripheral manufacturer. > 8 port USB-C hub And I believe a major reason for the lack of these, is that, if a dock/hub/etc. that consumes a USB4/Thunderbolt host port, wants to be able to expose a full-speed USB4/Thunderbolt downstream port of its own, then that port isn't going to work for peripherals that are picky about speeds/lanes if you have any other USB devices plugged into the hub. So vendors choose "the ability to plug a single Thunderbolt device in, plus other things" over "the ability to plug a bunch of USB4/3.2 devices in."
- kragen 5y ago
  On the plus side it does have three USB A ports, and it has a barrel charging port instead of one of those shitty USB-C ports for power. And you can plug USB-C-charging things into a USB A port with just an adaptor cable.
leeoniya 5y ago
1920x1080 on a 14" display is unfortunately not something i will be okay with anymore. i feel like 2k resolution is the sweet spot for this size display. EDIT: sorry, i meant QHD (1440p) (2560x1440)
- shalmanese 5y ago
  2K resolution is 1920 x something. Both 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 are 2K.
- stagger87 5y ago
  1920x1080 is 2k BTW.
  - mypalmike 5y ago
    TIL that the terminology changed at some point to refer to horizontal (e.g. 2K) rather than vertical resolution (e.g. 1080p). Probably ages ago.
    - buryat 5y ago
      it never changed, p in 1080p always referred to progressive lines as it came from movies/tv, 4k always meant 4096 at horizontal. We still have 2160p which is 3840×2160 They never replaced each other, just different definitions for screen sizes
    - LeFantome 5y ago
      It changed with the “K”. The marketing teams decided that 4K sounded better than 2160p. This is all the more ridiculous as 4K usually means UHD where neither axis has 4000 pixels ( 3840 x 2160 ). In the industry I am in, this would be called 8 MP ( Megapixel ) instead. After the popularity of 4K, somebody noticed that they could start calling 1080p 2K to make it sound better than 1080p. If you say 3 MP, does that sound even better? I mean, 3,000,000 is more then 2000 right?
- thanatos519 5y ago
  I thought QHD would be nice enough at that size but I really like my 3840x2400 14"-ish Dell Precision. The extra resolution means the fonts look printed instead of no-too-pixelly.
carlycue 5y ago
Apple Silicon MacBooks instantly made high end Windows laptops become paperweight. Why buy $1000+ Windows laptops with loud fans and much worse battery life, build quality and trackpad? Desktop PC's are a different story.
- goosedragons 5y ago
  You don't have to run macOS. There's full support for Windows and Linux and x86 applications. This is also upgradable. Run out of storage? You can replace the drive! Add more RAM! Choice is good.
  - Klonoar 5y ago
    Asahi's making decent enough progress that, eventually, you may not need to run macOS to enjoy macOS hardware. Why would I pay ~$930 for this, instead of buying an M1 Air? The comment you're responding to hit the nail on the head - once you've gone fan-less and sleek, it's really hard to go back. Few vendors, if any, hit the quality feel of Apple's products.
    - goosedragons 5y ago
      32GB of RAM? Good Linux support today? Don't have to pay $400 for 1TB storage? Kinda a bad move to buy something that may or may not down the line do what you need to do today. I need features like USB 3 and DP USB output today not 6 months or 2 years from now if it even happens.
      - jbverschoor 5y ago
        Not $400, but €300, so $334 > 1000GB SSD. Gen4 PCIe Over-Provisioned storage + €303,71 32gb is the only reason.. but then again, doesn't matter, because developers claim RAM is cheap anyway.. so there's no problem buying a macbook pro instead. The screen is not 4k, trackpad not as good, it's plastic, It has this oldschool barrel powercharger, etc. etc. etc.
hparadiz 5y ago
Gonna need a higher resolution to seriously consider this.
kelnos 5y ago
Gah, I like nearly everything about this, except that a single USB-C port is a showstopper for me. I've gone whole-hog USB-C over the past 4-5 years, and at this point I only have one thing (an old mouse) that connects via USB-A (I've permanently connected an adapter to it, so it's fine with USB-C as well). The other thing is the 1080p screen. I have that on my XPS 13, and it's... fine, but not great. The laptop I had before it had a higher-res screen, and I liked it much better, though I'm sure it negatively affected battery life. The price point is pretty decent, though. Spec'd the way I'd want it, it comes to around $1550 pre-tax. Shame about the USB ports, though.
- kingnothing 5y ago
  Why not use a dock when you're at your desk to alleviate the concerns about the single port?
Animats 5y ago
Pricing looks OK. 1 year warranty? The EU requires 2 years, and they're based in the UK. But the UK dropped out of the EU, and that lost consumers EU rights.
stmw 5y ago
Not projected to ship until late June... disappointing.
driverdan 5y ago
A 14" 1080p screen is unacceptable in 2022 unless it's a super cheap budget laptop.
- z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
  No its actually great, your opinion is unacceptable.
spongechameleon 5y ago
Does anybody know: (a) how many nits the screen is, and (b) how many Whr the battery is?
- slaw 5y ago
  Specification on website says 400 nits and 65Whr
ziftface 5y ago
Long shot but can this power two lg 5k displays? I'm guessing it can at least power one since it has thunderbolt 4 but I think it depends on how many "lanes" are available right?
- gdfhghdfdfgh 5y ago
  unless you're considering using an egpu, thunderbolt is completely irrelevant to whether the machine can drive two 5k displays (from any mfg). thunderbolt is saying little more than the device can route pcie signals externally. on top of that, thunderbolt is only available on the intel model both intel and amd models use their respective igpu, so it's unlikely you're going to have a pleasant experience trying to drive those displays without an egpu
  - ziftface 5y ago
    Well then I'm out of luck because I don't know of a GPU that can power a thunderbolt display unfortunately
makeitdouble 5y ago
This comes as a reminder that good, high resolution screens are not a given yet. Every other specs are configurable or look decent enough, and it seems to be a well thought, very competent product. I image not getting a screen on-par with current macbooks for instance to be something that was just not feasible, and clearly not an oversight.
yzmtf2008 5y ago
Tangantially related, I remember reading the Asahi Linux wiki [0], and was shocked by this statement about Apple Silicon machines. It's fascinating that Apple has a reputation for being anti-libre, yet the hardware they built is arguably very libre-friendly. > This puts them somewhere between x86 PCs and a libre-first system like the Talos II in terms of freedom to replace firmware and boot components; while a number of blobs are required in order to boot the system, none of those have the ability to take over the OS or compromise it post-boot (unlike, say, Intel ME and AMD PSP on recent systems, or the DMA-capable chips on the LPC bus running opaque blobs that exist on even old ThinkPads). > From a security perspective, these machines may possibly qualify as the most secure general purpose computers available to the public which support third-party OSes, in terms of resistance to attack by non-owners. [0]: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Introduction-to-Apple-Silicon https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Introduction-to-Appl...
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >yet the hardware they built is arguably very libre-friendly Well they're already in legal trouble for abusing their iOS market dominance with the new EU proposed legislation, they know the tides are turning against big tech, so they didn't lock down the MacBooks preemptively to brace themselves for what's coming, not because Apple has somehow now become a FOSS supporter. Before you applaud Apple for being too libre and think the company has changed direction, keep in mind this is the same company that ships recently launched monitors without user replaceable power cords and locks out in firmware the possibility to upgrade the SSDs on the very expensive Mac Studio despite teardowns showing that it's phisically possible by end users. Also, as a curiosity, why is every thread related to a X86 news, need to bring in the Apple M1 fan army and bang their drums? They serve completely different markets. For those consumers or companies that need to run X86 windows/Linux binaries that have no Mac ports, M1 based hardware is off the table from the start. And the device from this topic is designed to cater to that market, not to compete with M1.
  - lumost 5y ago
    I suspect everyone is waiting for the news to drop that either a top of line ARM machine is released outside of Apple, or for AMD/Intel to announce a competitive ARM chip. Computer enthusiasts have heard for ages that X86 is bloated, and that alternate instruction sets are better if only the tooling good catch up. Now that Apple is pushing ARM across the line, and ARM servers are becoming popular - folks want to see the linux ARM machine.
ilovecaching 5y ago
I don't understand why the industry hasn't switched over completely to hidpi screens. Once you use one you can never go back. I feel so bad for people still using 1920x1080 screens. Truly the price of freedom is having to squint and lose your eyesight, hoping that font tricks can save you, when you could just be using a display with a modern amount of pixels on it.
- elxr 5y ago
  Agreed, my next laptop will have to be 1600p at least.
- xanaxagoras 5y ago
  I'm torn. A modern amount or pixels comes with a modern amount of glare. That's bad for your eyes in a different way.
- slaw 5y ago
  I switched from 4k to 1920x1080 and it is enough for me, 400 nits is too dim to use outdoors.
MBCook 5y ago
I know the people working on Asahi Linux don’t have things perfect yet, but it runs on an M1 Air. That machine claims 18 hours of battery life (in some tests, MacOS) and gets 14.5-16.5 hours depending on who tests it. The StarBook claims 10 and probably achieves less (everyone does). The base specs are roughly comparable, except i3 vs M1 and the high resolution screen on the Mac. The site is quoting me $883 vs $999. Even ignoring the CPU difference, the battery life alone is probably worth the $100, let alone the display. I understand the value some place on its openness, but it’s not even a medium sacrifice. It’s pretty big.
- hushpuppy 5y ago
  Asahi Linux will never work as well as a normal Linux machine within any sort of reasonable time frame. Even with Intel CPUs the Linux experience on Macs is kinda shit. If your goal is to have a Linux workstation then buying a Mac is pretty dumb.
- sofixa 5y ago
  > I understand the value some place on its openness, but it’s not even a medium sacrifice. It’s pretty big. There's open, closed, and then there's the crap Apple pull off. None of their devices are even slightly serviceable or upgradeable. RAM, disk, battery are all, physically or otherwise, fixed for the whole life of the machine. Add the huge premiums they charge for going from 8GB RAM to 16, or similar in storage, makes the sacrifice much more bearable.
- xanaxagoras 5y ago
  I bet the trackpad is awful compared to a MacBook, although I have no idea how it feels under Asahi. I reached the same conclusion... These m1 macs are just too good at the price point, nothing else can meaningfully compete. Once Asahi works well I'm going to have to get one.
- Buxato 5y ago
  It runs, without full GPU support (at the moment no 3d acceleration at all If I am not mistaken), and you have to use Asahi Linux, not your favorite distro (yet). Also many of us doesn't want to give our money to Apple.
MBCook 5y ago
Did anyone else notice the design of the arrow keys on the keyboard? That design drove me nuts when I used one of the Apple keyboards like that. I don’t think I could stand that.
- hedora 5y ago
  I could get used to that, but the letters and space bar seem to be off center. It looks like they added a column or two of keys to the right of the enter key. Is that a UK thing, or is the US layout also off center?
bArray 5y ago
Running this website without JS is pretty funny: > Intel® Core® 0 th generation processors > Ryzen™ 0 processor > Up to 0 GB 3200MHz memory And so on.
- dlivingston 5y ago
  I know disabling JS is a popular security and privacy protocol on HM, but JS is a core part of the modern web. Strange side effects seem like they should be expected.
- dTal 5y ago
  "No Javascript? You must be one of them Luddites. Well, have I got the machine for you..."
ChuckMcM 5y ago
So close. I really want a laptop with a "2K" 4:3 aspect ratio 14" screen, 64GB of ECC ram, a Ryzen processor, and an M.2 SSD. Would be interesting to get a nice web cam too but that is less important to me. I'm also not a huge "thinness" type, thicker is fine if it isn't heavier.
- drudru 5y ago
  Hey Chuck - been trying to email you. You have a bad link to your VAX stuff on your main web site.
  - ChuckMcM 5y ago
    Weird, the email in my profile should work. But thanks for the tip, I'll fix the link rot
- farmin 5y ago
  Xps 17 is 1200x1920, 16:10. It's a great ratio and at 17 inch I don't use any scaling in windows and everything looks right size for my eyes. Can upgrade ssd and I've changed out memory to 64gb. It's a great rig but fans are a bit noisy.
  - Lio 5y ago
    Sadly the XPS17 isn’t sold with Linux support. It might work but you can’t be sure of firmware updates or component compatibility. With Dell at 17” and paid Linux support you have to move to the Precision line. I wish Dell would just have a single line of quality Linux compatible laptops you could buy off the shelf and know would always work.
    - farmin 5y ago
      I went to dual boot with Ubuntu but ran into issues that were going to take more than an evening to resolve. I can't remember exactly what it was now - something about bootloader and needing to change something in Windows registry to work ?(!).
chrismorgan 5y ago
Ah, those silly number animations where you animate from zero to the desired value. Combine that with a careless form of server-side rendering (though I am glad that all of the rest of the page is correctly server-side rendered with only one or two other minor issues), and this is the JavaScript-free experience: > Intel® Core® 0 th generation processors > Ryzen™ 0 processor > Up to 0 GB 3200MHz memory > Up to 0 hrs battery life > Up to 0 GB/s SSD read speeds And more like them later in the page (like the 0° viewing angle on the 0″ 0×0 display). Amusing. (Aside: I wish people would stop doing scroll-linked transitions of any kind for regular content. It just slows everything down for no good reason. Let me see the stuff immediately as I scroll; don’t make it take another few hundred milliseconds until you fade the content in, or a second until you show the correct number.)
- orphean 5y ago
  It would be nice to see more uptake of CSS’ prefers-reduced-motion. It’s perfect for this exact issue. Personally I don’t have a problem with scroll linked transitions but the user should have the choice.
- atoav 5y ago
  I wonder what influences gimmicks like these have on search machine indexing.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  Everyone wants to do Apple-like product pages, and no one knows how to do Apple-like product pages. (And in fairness, Apple has forgotten how to do a proper product page, too).
  - oefrha 5y ago
    A little more than a decade ago when parallax scrolling was new and seen only on a few websites like apple.com, there was a wow effect. Nowadays apple.com and clones are among the most obnoxious and tiring ad-free websites out there. Do not hijack scrolling. Use CSS scroll snap if you feel like it, but don't do anything beyond that. (To be clear, this comment is a tangent — TFA doesn't hijack scrolling. I see the same hilarious 0s everywhere effect though.)
Phenix88be 5y ago
I m happy to see that AMD Ryzen is supported ! But this laptop is missing: - a second USB-C. - You don't need that HDMI if you have enough USB-C, since you can turn them into what ever port you need. - Why the fuck do we still have USB-2 port ? - We really need to have option for the screen, 1080p is not enough for a lot of people. I like to have as much screen pixel has possible (because I can display more line of code).
- capableweb 5y ago
  You seem to be wanting a stationary desktop computer, not a portable laptop used for many different situations. HDMI is great when you're doing presentations all over the place, no need to keep track of dongles, most places I present at uses HDMI. USB-A is useful for tons of accessories, personally I only have a one (out of five in total) using USB-C, and most USB sticks I come across when consulting are in fact USB-A. If you're out after as much screen estate as possible, external monitors are for you. A 14-inch laptop are for people on the go.
  - Phenix88be 5y ago
    > HDMI is great when you're doing presentations all over the place, no need to keep track of dongles, most places I present at uses HDMI. Then you only have an HDMI dongle. Until you present at one that use display port, someone can give you a display port dongle. > USB-A is useful for tons of accessories, personally I only have a one (out of five in total) using USB-C, and most USB sticks I come across when consulting are in fact USB-A. I know that, I m not against it at all. Just, can we USB-2 retire now ? > If you're out after as much screen estate as possible, external monitors are for you. A 14-inch laptop are for people on the go. I code on the go and I don't want to be on a small resolution laptop when I m not at home.
dainiusse 5y ago
Maybe it is a good laptop hardware-wise, but the design is from 2010
pyinstallwoes 5y ago
If anyone that works at Starlabs is here you should know that I tried to use the configuration page on my iPhone and it was pretty buggy. I tapped learn more on operating systems then it was stuck there.
tradesurplus 5y ago
Give me a truly sunlight readable display (transreflective polarized lamination or whatever works well), a high fidelity glass trackpad, good keyboard, solid case build quality and decent internal specs and I'll buy a new laptop.
mnahkies 5y ago
One thing I'm very happy to see on their configuration page is the choice of keyboard layout. It feels like most companies assume that you must want the standard layout for the country you're currently living in, when personally I just want a us layout. Do wish they had some more options for the display, but still looks like a pretty compelling and reasonably priced product.
- Narretz 5y ago
  I find it disappointing that non US/UK keyboard layout adds 200€ to the price. Surely the extra cost they have is a small fraction of that.
  - schipplock 5y ago
    Non US/UK config defaults to core i7. The 200€ diff is i3 vs. i7.
    - Narretz 5y ago
      Oh okay, the site should make this obvious.
morsch 5y ago
Looks very similar to the TUXEDO Pulse 14, to the point that I'm wondering if it's the same OEM. I've been using the only Pulse for a while now, it's okay. Though I basically only use it plugged in to external everything and frankly would prefer to use a desktop computer, so I guess even after a few months I can't say whether it's a good mobile device. https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/10-14-inch/TUXEDO-Pulse-14-Gen1.tuxedo https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note...
- h-w 5y ago
  Starlabs designs their own, not the same oem.
darrenf 5y ago
I got one of these in December 2021 and frankly love it. Got fed up with being pretty much the only person on earth who had a shitty experience with Apple Silicon, so jumped back to Linux after 17 years away. I don’t use it as a portable, or at least haven’t yet - it’s my daily driver for work and permanently plugged in to a monitor (which also is a USB hub). I opted for Manjaro and enjoy using it way more than I did the M1 macbook pro it replaced. I really like that they provide a detailed pictorial complete disassembly guide: https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/guides/starbook-mk-v-complete-disassembly-guide https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/guides/starbook-mk-v-com...
- mateuszf 5y ago
  I have StarBook MK IV and also love it. Works great with NixOS.
- yardstick 5y ago
  What put you off the M1? I’m still on an Intel MBP but fear my eventual switch to an M1 will be frustrating.
  - chewmieser 5y ago
    I was originally planning on waiting until like M2 but ended up needing an upgrade sooner than I had hoped for both my personal (2011) and work laptops (2016) and just have to say that M1 has been awesome so far. Snappy, low power consumption, much better cooling... I was on an Intel MBP previously and everything I was using it for is supported just fine on M1. Some things require Rosetta but most big apps have updated support for M1 directly at this point. Our docker development environment was based on x64 but it was pretty trivial to add support for ARM to it. Gaming can be a challenge (when hasn't it been with Mac though), particularly GamePass games (through Parallels Windows 11) seems to be a hit-or-miss. Games through Steam, even virtualized through Parallels, have been fine though. On my M1 Max w/ 64GB memory I can play everything I've tried at ultra settings.
    - bdcravens 5y ago
mysterypie 5y ago
You can choose between American Megatrends and coreboot. They have a FAQ with the pros and cons[1]. But I have a hard time seeing why anyone would choose the proprietary American Megatrends firmware, especially since the laptop is targeted towards Linux users. Are they offering the choice for their older customers who are used to the American Megatrends UI? Or maybe to not anger the supplier (American Megatrends) that they've been working with for years? [1] https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/faqs/ami-aptio-v-vs-coreboot https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/faqs/ami-aptio-v-vs-core...
- dharmab 5y ago
  The AM firmware updates are signed and Coreboot is not.
  - mysterypie 5y ago
    I don't think I'd make that security tradeoff. From best to worst, I'd rank the options is this order: (1) signed open source (2) unsigned open source (3) signed proprietary (4) unsigned proprietary In some cases I might rank #3 as the worst option if it prevents me from editing the firmware binary (to fix a security bug myself or to remove tracking info like a serial number), reverse engineering the firmware to verify it (because signed code is often encrypted as well), or installing alternate firmware that might be more secure.
- lozenge 5y ago
  They get the AM firmware for free from the chipset manufacturer.
- Jhsto 5y ago
  I'm not well versed in UEFI firmware, but how is this possible: > Due to how lightweight coreboot is, it will offer better performance and lower power consumption. For example, the LabTop Mk IV combined with coreboot will offer approximately 8% more performance and around 20% longer battery life (with a record of 13 hours and 42 minutes for general use).
cloudengineer94 5y ago
Looks like the EU version of Framework! Funny enough they do give a Ryzen option which is pretty cool. Would love to go back to a PC running Linux but for the time being macOS + Brew on MacBook Air/14" is the way to go due to the battery life and performance. Oh and my 14" as a heck of a screen.
ur-whale 5y ago
> DC Jack for charging It was looking good until this. Why not USB-C ?
- h-w 5y ago
  It supports usb-c power delivery up to 100w
- krzyk 5y ago
  Exactly, very strange choice, I would prefer if they would change the DC jack into another USB-C/thuinderbolt port with PD.
lifeplusplus 5y ago
how come phones have such high density displays and it's like buying a kidney to get that same density display for laptop and monitor.
ribit 5y ago
I think it’s great the kind of initiatives are becoming more widespread. Personally, I have little interest in these kind of laptops but the more choice and variety is out there the better it is for the users.
rock_artist 5y ago
All those Linux friendly laptops are cool. but it's quite troubling to announce devices with Intel's 11th gen when 12th gen ultra-low-voltage is around the corner.
cjtrowbridge 5y ago
Why does it have a 3.5mm charger jack, but only one USB-C port which can also be used for charging? Like Just put two USB-C ports and no 3.5mm port.
gadrev 5y ago
I've been checking these out for months, unfortunately the 13" is out of stock and apparently isn't listed any more in the site :( Wanted a decent, light (physically light I mean) Linux laptop at that started at less than 900€, so probably not more than 1100/1200 after some ram/CPU tweaking. Anyone know any similar options for that size?
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
What's the equivalent of this for someone who wants to bring their own keyboard? Is there a Linux tablet that can both act like a tablet and also be the screen (and heart) of a developers "laptop" if paired with a external keyboard? Some kind of detachable "hub" that gives more IO options is optional.
- hushpuppy 5y ago
  They have a mini PC "Star Labs Byte". Basically a laptop sans keyboard, display, and internal battery.
- funerr 5y ago
  This is also a great idea when traveling!
- Otek 5y ago
  Recently Asus dropped new ROG tablet which looks powerful enough, but I don’t know if linux would work on it. Edit: it’s ROG Flow Z13
john61 5y ago
What proprietary Software does this need to support all hardware?
pcdoodle 5y ago
Looks fantastic but I can't do 16:9 anymore.
skocznymroczny 5y ago
Reminds me of ThinkPads. Way too thick for my taste. I'd rather get rid of HDMI and USB-A ports in favor of thinness.

642 points by capableweb 5y ago

Given that I can easily see pixels on my XPS 15 4k, I wish this one had higher resolution. Otherwise, I am not sure how an experience would be different than using a few years old laptop? Maybe I am not a target audience.

nukemaster 5y ago

Funny, without js all the specs say "0." I guess they wanted it animated for dramatic affect and now you get something very much the opposite, like they're sarcastically selling you a rock. >0th gen Intel processor >0GB of memory >0hrs of battery life >0GB/S SSD write speed

CameronNemo 5y ago
Yeah they would just need to add some <noscript>...
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  This problem happens even with JS enabled. They’re supposed to be dynamic as you scroll but it doesn’t work properly so you end up staring at zeros for quite a while!

octoberfranklin 5y ago

This thing "propels" the Intel Management Engine "experience", which is about as anti-open-source as it gets, folks...

h-w 5y ago
Has intel me disabled out of the box and runs coreboot.

mjhagen 5y ago

Why do all these beautiful and interesting new laptop designers hate inverted-T arrow keys?

dm319 5y ago
It'd be cool if laptops came with programmable keyboards and layers.

pelorat 5y ago

Looks interesting, but TB4 is a deal-breaker. Why not use USB-PD instead?

h-w 5y ago
The tb4 port does power delivery

KronisLV 5y ago

Hmm, seems like currently the costs of the more "open" laptops are around this: StarBook ~1000€ Librem 14 ~1250€ Framework ~925€ I can see why they'd focus on this price point, but what are some of the better budget options? Best i can think of are: StarLite ~500€ (available soon) Pinebook Pro ~250€ (out of stock) Raspberry Pi 400 ~100€ (not a true laptop, but interesting) I actually bought my x86 notebook for around 200€, which was perfect for note taking in University and now occasionally serves as a low-power long battery life web browsing or typing machine: https://techbite.eu/en/laptopy/laptop-zin-3-14-1 https://techbite.eu/en/laptopy/laptop-zin-3-14-1 (i got a slightly older revision) That said, it seems like you should only go for the more popular devices so you don't run into stupid weirdness with drivers, even in popular *nix distros (4 GB of RAM just wasn't enough for usable Windows), for example, that manufacturer i linked had problems with the fingerprint scanner in the model i got. Of course, what i'm after might be better for those who prefer desktop computing for most tasks and only need something for being on the go occasionally (or just are frugal, like me, due to only being able to make savings slowly).

lysecret 5y ago

I will never go away from a 3:2 Laptop ever again. I am using the Huawei 14, bought it for 700. The only issue is that i cant replace the RAM, and the camera is really bad, being behind the keyboard.

mizzao 5y ago
What if they started making 4:3 laptops again?

Reason077 5y ago

"Minimalist design". And yet bristling with USB-A ports. Hmmm.

Sinidir 5y ago

How does switching to a german keyboard add about 230 bucks to the price ????

mpfundstein 5y ago
probably custom manufacturing process due to no market share in germany
Narishma 5y ago
It doesn't. What does is going from the i3 to an i7.

IYasha 5y ago

Very cool! Not exactly to _my_ personal taste, but objectively a very nice project! Kudos for USB-A 3.0. Love the openness, Coreboot and the configurator. The warranty is impressive. I wish more products like this existed! On the design downsides (imho): Why MicroSD? There's enough space to put a BD-RE drive, not to mention full-size SD. The battery is not user-serviceable, judging by the looks. Not made of 18650, not hot-swappable. And the power button... there... err... ugghh... just.. WHY?? (I'd definitely hit it instead of DEL, which was placed there an all of my previous laptops).

Rooster61 5y ago

Has anyone here had experience with installing and running Windows on one of these? Not for me, but my wife is in need of a laptop, and I'm wondering how well it would run on this platform. I personally would love to run one of these for work, but IT no likey Linux boxes. Will have to upgrade to an M1 sooner or later (my 2015 MBP is on its last legs).

gentleman11 5y ago
I would also dual boot for the few times per year I need to do photo editing

super_mario 5y ago

Looks like a great machine, however, the screen resolution is a little disappointing. Why can't we have retina screens on non-Apple hardware? Is this due to Linux limitations or manufacturers are just "cheap"?

Mikeb85 5y ago

No 6000 series Ryzen... Looks decent though.

dangus 5y ago

No high DPI, no buy.

neycoda 5y ago

STOP WITH THE MINIMALISM. I don't want my laptop to have _the least amount of features_, I want it to have _as many features as makes it useful to me_. These are not fashion accessories, these are life productivity machines. I need 4 USB-A/C ports (at least 2 that are 3.x and fast-charging), an Ethernet jack in the back (not in the way on the side), a lid that doesn't get stuck at 120 degrees, fans in the back, a monitor port (preferably in the back out of the way), a hard drive light, separate volume buttons, 14-16" screen that isn't crap, headphone jack, and easy to upgrade RAM and hard drive. Laptops these days are RIDICULOUS, poorly-designed, wanna-be Jony Ive slabs that look pretty and are frustrating. We had good designs years ago! What happened?! They've gotten hard to use unless you're a coffee-shop blogger, they used to be easy from kitchen-table user to weekend coder.

userda22 5y ago

I am just amazed that people are still buying apple, I mean you literally waive any right of privacy when you do!

rawoke083600 5y ago

Looks good ! Can't seem to find the GPU specs ? This is such a terrible-time(opportunity wise) to build/buy a laptop: On the one hand, the newer much more energy efficient intel cpu's 12xxx are out, and if you want to go Ryzen, you should wait for the new Ryzen Rembrandt(?) APU (new GPU RDNA2) Still looks very nice :)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ManyPeopleSay 5y ago

The screen is atrocious. Apple has been using HIDPI 220ppi displays on macbooks since 2012. No we dont need a matte display. Ever see a matte smartphone? linux does NOT SUPPORT fractional scaling.

jeroen79 5y ago

wow 230€ to change the keyboard layout

humanistbot 5y ago

I love this, but I just can't quit the Thinkpad trackpoint with physical mouse buttons between the keyboard and top of the touchpad.

flatiron 5y ago
$930 buys you a heck of a good used thinkpad as well with great Linux compatibility.
aidenn0 5y ago
HP zBooks support linux (not coreboot though) and have trackpoint plus mouse buttons between keyboard and top of the touchpad. They are heavy though.
- koiueo 5y ago
  Not all trackpoints are the same. ThinkPads are unfortunately uncontested.
  - glowingly 5y ago
    IMO, not all Thinkpads. My E485 was noticeably worse than my X1C6. Never seemed to track as well, nor did it seem to resist "sticking" as much. I don't quite know to describe sticking, but it's like when an INU (or a strain gauge in this case) fails to properly self calibrate, and it decides that an objectively false input is true. Something similar to video game controllers with "stick drift," but not quite the same afaik. Aside: Ultimately, I can take it or leave it w.r.t. the trackpoint. A good touchpad can do wonders. In tight spaces I use my thumbs then rely on decent tap-to-click and inertial dragging implementations (present since ~2008). Though in the recent years, I haven't had to commute to work by train or bus anymore, nor have I had to really travel by airplane. When typing, I mostly rely on keyboard commands for text-heavy work. I do find quite a bit of use in many thinkpad's KB layout still preserving home/end/insert/pgup/pgdn without needing to resort to "fn" key twister games, even if newer Thinkpad layouts are worse and worse for this (insert key got eaten by fn in some newer laptops, and there are obviously longstanding debates over the 7row vs 6 row). None of the griping about the "swapped" ctrl/fn key positions would even matter if functions weren't being hidden behind fn keys in the first place, negating the need for a fn key at all. I do appreciate the thinkpad's clustered f1-f12 keys, which make common f keys quicker and easier to find. I've never used the touchpad on any of my thinkpads. I think Lenovo have been okay stewards of decent laptops. Not great, especially relative to newer developments on the market.

BSOhealth 5y ago

Website doesn’t work all that great on mobile. But I’d be supportive of a Linux laptop that can market itself to regular consumers rather than already-converted Linux folks.

hackmiester 5y ago
I had to laugh when I scrolled down and it claimed to have a 0th generation processor
- BSOhealth 5y ago
  Agreed, the labels for some of the numbers never loaded (or the CSS just borked) and it was just a vertical list of random numbers.
  - mypalmike 5y ago
    It worked fine on mine but it's a weird and confusing gimmick.

throwaway81523 5y ago

Looks interesting, starts at $930 which is not too steep vs other products in the same space, price of upgrades is not stated which is a bit scary. Several Linux distros tested including Ubuntu, but Debian is not in the list. Appears to have a non-removable battery with nothing said about replacing it. And of course the CPU (whether you pick Intel or AMD) is full of blobs, management engine, etc. I didn't notice a mention of a built in microphone but it is a standard thing to find on laptops, so what I was hoping to see was a way to hard disconnect it. Edit: aha, I see replacement parts including batteries are available if you select "parts" from the menu. Ordering screen alert says "Production for the StarLite's has now finished, and are in the final stages of testing. Orders placed now are estimated to ship out in 2-3 weeks." There are some unstated "if"s in that, so I would say until people actually receive units, it doesn't quite exist. Anyway I will keep an eye out for this. I'm going to need another laptop at some point and this seems like a possibility, as does the Framework, etc.

Shalomboy 5y ago
> There are some unstated "if"s in that, so I would say until people actually receive units, it doesn't quite exist. Kudos for being wary of marketing copy. I'd like to note that StarLabs has been shipping laptops of their own design for a few years now. They've been super transparent about manufacturing lead times and their order queue too. I don't own anything of theirs yet, but I've been keeping an eye on them long enough to say I appreciate their way of doing business.
avrionov 5y ago
If you click on configure, you can see the price of all upgrades.
jancsika 5y ago
> And of course the CPU (whether you pick Intel or AMD) is full of blobs, management engine, etc. And of course it can't do fast homomorphic encryption either, so that's a hard pass here.
- elromulous 5y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago

How does the touchpad and the 2 finger scroll compare to the MacBooks? Having used those I haven't found anything matching those.

k1rcher 5y ago
Interested in this too, as well as how it compares to the Framework
- freedomben 5y ago
  I can't comment on the StarBook, but the Framework touchpad is really great. I had an early model that had a slightly annoying out-of-the-box issue where I had to click kind of hard, but after doing that it works great now. Two-finger scroll is super smooth, and it properly detects 1/2/3 finger gestures, etc.
  - VTimofeenko 5y ago
    I think my frame.work is doing the "kinda hard" click thing too. Did you just break it in, or change something mechanically? I mostly use the keyboard, so it's a very minor annoyance to me.
    - freedomben 5y ago
      ah yes, let me find the instructions! EDIT: this is what fixed it for me: > Pressing the bottom center of the touchpad firmly a few times has resolved the issue in some cases.[1] Said in a slightly different way: > There were also a small number of early units produced that may have contact issues on the physical switch on the Touchpad. Try pressing the bottom middle of the Touchpad firmly a few times to see if that resolves the issue. If it does not, please contact Framework Support.[2] [1]: https://community.frame.work/t/known-issues-on-early-framework-laptops/4551 https://community.frame.work/t/known-issues-on-early-framewo... [2]: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/touchpad-not-working-SJQQqt2Hu https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/touchpad-not-working-...

imilk 5y ago

I can't really tell from the website, do they make their own laptops or are these rebranded Clevos?

blaaee 5y ago
wonder about this myself
- h-w 5y ago
  They make their own
CaptainMarvel 5y ago
Some previous laptops were rebranded Clevo, but the new StarBooks are their own design.
userbinator 5y ago
Clevos are pretty good as far as right-to-repair is concerned --- they have good service manuals with schematics.

tazjin 5y ago

Looks decent. From the title it seemed like this only supported AMD, but you can get it with Intel CPUs, too. I've been burned in recent years by trying to use AMD stuff with Linux and just running into even more weird, minor hardware incompatibilities than usual. For now I would not buy an AMD laptop again.

qbasic_forever 5y ago
Make sure to use the latest kernels. My Ryzen 2500U laptop has finally been fully stable and usable after about the 5.10 kernel. There were unfortunately a ton of bugs and issues with Ryzen, especially the APUs, in the earlier kernels. Ubuntu 21.10 or similar derivatives have been solid though.
- tazjin 5y ago
  I do, I use linuxPackages_latest from nixpkgs. On my first AMD machine (2020 Threadripper) I even made and carried a kernel patch to correctly address audio output pins for a while. Some of that works upstream now, but the AMD-compatible mainboards are spread too thin to be well-supported.
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  As another data point, my 5600g (APU) desktop is quite stable with Linux 5.15 and latest stable mesa.

CaptainMarvel 5y ago

This is like the Framework laptop but it's a UK-based company that has been around for years, and with an explicit focus on Linux compatibility to boot. I'm surprised I haven't come across them before as I've been looking for Linux-compatible laptops for years. They do some things better than Framework such as supporting Ryzen processors, and seem a bit cheaper overall. The battery life seems like it would be better. They have a spare parts store as well and a full disassembly guide as well as an "open warranty". I was never a fan of Framework's swappable ports. The biggest disadvantage seems to be that the screen is bog-standard 16:9. I'm curious on the quality of the speakers, webcam, keyboard, and trackpad. I have a feeling they will not be great - in comparison to a Macbook at any rate. From reviews it looks like the trackpad is poor because it is not whole-trackpad clickable, and the keyboard is also poor due to the short key travel. Are there any other decent alternatives available in the UK?

3np 5y ago
> The biggest disadvantage seems to be that the screen is bog-standard 16:9. Bigger than that IMO is 14" @ 1080p. It's just too little for daily use for me. Framework are so far the only ones in this market segment who have ever marketed >1080p laptop displays AFAIK. I have a hard time understanding why there is such a lack of higher-res panel options across the market, even when seemingly all other relevant specs are high-end. I'm sure like usual when this comes up, some people will come reply with "you can't make out the difference anyway", which is just not true. Some of us prefer smaller fonts and higher information density. 8px font size is just less ergonomic and more tiring for the eyes. For 16:9 14" I just won't consider anything below 1440p.
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  I agree. Tho it also depends on how often it's a pure laptop, and how often it's a "desktop" with two larger primary monitors connected. I'd probably opt for 1440p+, but given the rest and the price maybe not. For others, 1080 might be just fine.
- ksec 5y ago
  >I have a hard time understanding why there is such a lack of higher-res panel options across the market There are plenty of options, just most of them aren't cheap, or fitting in targeted price range. There isn't a lack of high-res panel in supply, but a lack of high-res panel in demand. Or in other words, no-one apart from Apple (not that Apple gave its user a choice, but let's ignore this for a moment ) manage to market Retina or high-res panel and created enough demand to sustain a different upgrade option or SKUs. This then cycles back, without economy of scale, not just a vendor but the whole industry, high-res panel do not enjoy the unit cost reduction as standardise low -res panel ( or 1080P panel, which isn't really "low-res" ). So the cost of these specific panel are far higher, increasing BOM, increase RSP, etc. etc. Next question that always comes after this answer is always; >"But we have higher prices SKUs, it is not like there isn't a demand for current SKUs +$100 / 200" Yes. But given the option to choose between paying extra $100 / $200, the market tends to flavour for more memory, faster CPU or better GPU. Not higher-res panel.

smm11 5y ago

Not that the XPS 13 is the best ever made, but.

gigatexal 5y ago

Might have found my Intel MacBook replacement

CameronNemo 5y ago

I was under the impression that no AMD processor is supported by coreboot. Why would this no name vendor be the first to get that working?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
Not no AMD processor; Chromebooks use AMD+coreboot (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Coreboot-In-Early-2020 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Core...). Beyond that, I couldn't say; it may be as simple as "nobody else cared".
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Oh that is quite interesting. I did not even know that there were AMD Chromebooks. I don't know who at google is forcing hardware vendors to publish sources, but they are really awesome. Several arm vendors seem to only publish sources for their Chromebook SoCs (e.g. Rockchip, mediatek).

aidenn0 5y ago

It would be nice if there were any DP on the AMD version; I assume the Intel does DP over thunderbolt and the AMD does not?

goosedragons 5y ago
It says in the specification it has DP alt mode for the USB C. You just don't get thunderbolt on the AMD models. This is pretty typical and it's the same case on the AMD ThinkPads.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  Thanks; I feel like I need a rubric for grading USB C connectors because I cannot keep all the zillion things straight.

rob_c 5y ago

btw, just so you know, it doesn't come with arch :P

tailspin2019 5y ago

If anyone from Star Labs is here, I’d encourage a bit of a QA review of your site!

nukenuke 5y ago

When I loaded the website it was slowly going incrementally through different intel generations. So I thought for a second they were offering versions with older intel chips. But the page was just animating slowly.

p1mrx 5y ago

Do I understand correctly that this is capable of charging over USB-C, and includes a USB-C power supply, but the default charging cable is USB-C -> DC barrel jack? So you can charge over USB-C, but only if you buy a C-to-C cable and tie up the single USB-C port.

kelnos 5y ago
I think it's good that they have the barrel-jack option for people who want to use the USB-C port for something other than charging, but I would just prefer they ditch two of (or even all three) USB-A ports and have 3 or 4 USB-C ports instead.
hakfoo 5y ago
Maybe they figure people would rather use the C port for something else? I feel like a barrel jack may be more resilient, if you're plugging it in twice a day.
- ezfe 5y ago
  I've got a USB-charging laptop I plug in every day for over a year and the cable still clicks in satisfyingly, fwiw
- Anunayj 5y ago
  Yup, at the same time it allows people to use USB-C for charging, which might easily be the case with some of those usb-c hubs that also provide charge to the device.
xanaxagoras 5y ago
System76 machines are like that too, or at least the Lemur Pro is.

stakkur 5y ago

Nah. You know what I'd buy? A proven laptop brand that a third party revamped/Coreboot-ed/etc. and resold. These mediocre, unproven, semi-bespoke laptops with third-rate keyboards and so-so screens (the two features that really matter to me) are never compelling enough.

Havoc 5y ago

Tiny bit puzzled by the random USB2 port? Seems out of place given rest of specs. Is there a specific reason why that would be desirable over another USB3?

MBCook 5y ago
I would guess that it’s available on the chipset so they added it. Maybe nothing more than that.

koiueo 5y ago

It looks great, but maaan, that keyboard is terrible - f1-f12 aren't split in 4-keys blocks - backspace, enter, etc. aren't the right-most keys. No additional spacing too on the right - cursor block with crippled up/down Touch-typing would be a nightmare. But backlight, yeah...

ehecatl42 5y ago
- Trackpad not centred on space - no symetry of bottom row modifiers (and those aren't speaker grills either; just aesthetic markings)

blkhawk 5y ago

I was interested, but sadly the German keyboards are only available in combination with an intel 11th gen mobile CPU. I really wanted the Ryzen variant. I wonder if the keyboard can be bought separately - the layout at least looked compatible with that. Another point against it is the screen resolution - I really wanted to have a 1440p screen this time around.

headsoup 5y ago

I hope it does well and the range ends up expanding a bit, it would be nice to see some options with discreet GPUs (and higher res displays). The pricing seems reasonable and more support for Linux is always welcome

rectang 5y ago

Not to be confused with Starr Labs, makers of the Ztar — a high-end MIDI guitar-like instrument. https://www.starrlabs.com/ https://www.starrlabs.com/

kajaktum 5y ago

Damn, I wished I had bought the mini-PC from them instead! I really don't understand the appeal of laptops, it only makes sense for the people that is really on the move like university students or blogger. Even then, they only need cheap laptop for browsing (cue memory hod jokes). That or you prefer to do your work at public spaces like libraries or cafes. What's the point of spending huge sums of money on a laptop that performs 1/3 compared to its PC equivalent? You're also stuck with that keyboard and monitor for the rest of its natural life.

jamal-kumar 5y ago
I travel constantly and get to do my job from a hammock instead of some ass-destroying desk and chair. A desktop computer would be like a ball and chain against that level of freedom.
- oblio 5y ago
  > I travel constantly and get to do my job from a hammock instead of some ass-destroying desk and chair. I highly doubt that the ergonomics of the hammock setup you have going are any good. And by ergonomics, I mean RSI and other related posture injuries.
  - jamal-kumar 5y ago
    I'm in my 30s, been doing this since I've been 23, and absolutely zero issues related to that so far. Everyone I know who has RSI from this line of work seems to be unlucky mostly, so maybe it's just me, but I think it's mostly a matter of getting up and walking or running around for around 15 minutes for every hour of sedentary activity, stretches, underwater ocean swimming for the lungs... All things WAY more likely to give me an RSI just from stepping in the wrong place or whatever other exercise-related injury. Not like I spend hours in strange positions acting like I'm a three toed sloth
oblio 5y ago
What do you do if you have to work in the office and there's a meeting where you want to demo something? Or you want to quickly look up an email with something you want to show to others?

X-Istence 5y ago

Why only a single USB-C port? Almost everything I buy these days has only USB-C ports/cables/charging. It's gotten to the point now that I am increasingly frustrated with the fact that there are no good USB-C capable hubs that take a USB-C USB 4 and turn it into an 8 port USB-C hub. With a mix of 10 Gbps/5 Gbps/480 Mbps speeds. I can get plenty of USB-C to USB-A hubs, but that is not what I want.

stragies 5y ago
Yes, please! Ideally, also with POE .bt Power Supply possibility (upto 80W), and compliant to USB PerPortPowerSetting specification, to be able to toggle power to each port comfortably with uhubctl/Home_assistant/etc.
eatbitseveryday 5y ago
https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/ https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/ Gives you power and three usbc.
derefr 5y ago
I believe that when companies do this, it's because there's only a single Thunderbolt controller on-board the host, and they think that giving people two USB-C ports, where either port can do Thunderbolt, but you can't use two Thunderbolt devices (in actual Thunderbolt mode, where you're passing through PCIe lanes) at once, would be too confusing. So they force you to buy a hub or dock — pushing the consumer's blame for this confusing quagmire onto the peripheral manufacturer. > 8 port USB-C hub And I believe a major reason for the lack of these, is that, if a dock/hub/etc. that consumes a USB4/Thunderbolt host port, wants to be able to expose a full-speed USB4/Thunderbolt downstream port of its own, then that port isn't going to work for peripherals that are picky about speeds/lanes if you have any other USB devices plugged into the hub. So vendors choose "the ability to plug a single Thunderbolt device in, plus other things" over "the ability to plug a bunch of USB4/3.2 devices in."
kragen 5y ago
On the plus side it does have three USB A ports, and it has a barrel charging port instead of one of those shitty USB-C ports for power. And you can plug USB-C-charging things into a USB A port with just an adaptor cable.

leeoniya 5y ago

1920x1080 on a 14" display is unfortunately not something i will be okay with anymore. i feel like 2k resolution is the sweet spot for this size display. EDIT: sorry, i meant QHD (1440p) (2560x1440)

shalmanese 5y ago
2K resolution is 1920 x something. Both 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 are 2K.
stagger87 5y ago
1920x1080 is 2k BTW.
- mypalmike 5y ago
  TIL that the terminology changed at some point to refer to horizontal (e.g. 2K) rather than vertical resolution (e.g. 1080p). Probably ages ago.
  - buryat 5y ago
    it never changed, p in 1080p always referred to progressive lines as it came from movies/tv, 4k always meant 4096 at horizontal. We still have 2160p which is 3840×2160 They never replaced each other, just different definitions for screen sizes
  - LeFantome 5y ago
    It changed with the “K”. The marketing teams decided that 4K sounded better than 2160p. This is all the more ridiculous as 4K usually means UHD where neither axis has 4000 pixels ( 3840 x 2160 ). In the industry I am in, this would be called 8 MP ( Megapixel ) instead. After the popularity of 4K, somebody noticed that they could start calling 1080p 2K to make it sound better than 1080p. If you say 3 MP, does that sound even better? I mean, 3,000,000 is more then 2000 right?
thanatos519 5y ago
I thought QHD would be nice enough at that size but I really like my 3840x2400 14"-ish Dell Precision. The extra resolution means the fonts look printed instead of no-too-pixelly.

carlycue 5y ago

Apple Silicon MacBooks instantly made high end Windows laptops become paperweight. Why buy $1000+ Windows laptops with loud fans and much worse battery life, build quality and trackpad? Desktop PC's are a different story.

goosedragons 5y ago
You don't have to run macOS. There's full support for Windows and Linux and x86 applications. This is also upgradable. Run out of storage? You can replace the drive! Add more RAM! Choice is good.
- Klonoar 5y ago
  Asahi's making decent enough progress that, eventually, you may not need to run macOS to enjoy macOS hardware. Why would I pay ~$930 for this, instead of buying an M1 Air? The comment you're responding to hit the nail on the head - once you've gone fan-less and sleek, it's really hard to go back. Few vendors, if any, hit the quality feel of Apple's products.
  - goosedragons 5y ago
    32GB of RAM? Good Linux support today? Don't have to pay $400 for 1TB storage? Kinda a bad move to buy something that may or may not down the line do what you need to do today. I need features like USB 3 and DP USB output today not 6 months or 2 years from now if it even happens.
    - jbverschoor 5y ago
      Not $400, but €300, so $334 > 1000GB SSD. Gen4 PCIe Over-Provisioned storage + €303,71 32gb is the only reason.. but then again, doesn't matter, because developers claim RAM is cheap anyway.. so there's no problem buying a macbook pro instead. The screen is not 4k, trackpad not as good, it's plastic, It has this oldschool barrel powercharger, etc. etc. etc.

hparadiz 5y ago

Gonna need a higher resolution to seriously consider this.

kelnos 5y ago

Gah, I like nearly everything about this, except that a single USB-C port is a showstopper for me. I've gone whole-hog USB-C over the past 4-5 years, and at this point I only have one thing (an old mouse) that connects via USB-A (I've permanently connected an adapter to it, so it's fine with USB-C as well). The other thing is the 1080p screen. I have that on my XPS 13, and it's... fine, but not great. The laptop I had before it had a higher-res screen, and I liked it much better, though I'm sure it negatively affected battery life. The price point is pretty decent, though. Spec'd the way I'd want it, it comes to around $1550 pre-tax. Shame about the USB ports, though.

kingnothing 5y ago
Why not use a dock when you're at your desk to alleviate the concerns about the single port?

Animats 5y ago

Pricing looks OK. 1 year warranty? The EU requires 2 years, and they're based in the UK. But the UK dropped out of the EU, and that lost consumers EU rights.

stmw 5y ago

Not projected to ship until late June... disappointing.

driverdan 5y ago

A 14" 1080p screen is unacceptable in 2022 unless it's a super cheap budget laptop.

z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
No its actually great, your opinion is unacceptable.

spongechameleon 5y ago

Does anybody know: (a) how many nits the screen is, and (b) how many Whr the battery is?

slaw 5y ago
Specification on website says 400 nits and 65Whr

ziftface 5y ago

Long shot but can this power two lg 5k displays? I'm guessing it can at least power one since it has thunderbolt 4 but I think it depends on how many "lanes" are available right?

gdfhghdfdfgh 5y ago
unless you're considering using an egpu, thunderbolt is completely irrelevant to whether the machine can drive two 5k displays (from any mfg). thunderbolt is saying little more than the device can route pcie signals externally. on top of that, thunderbolt is only available on the intel model both intel and amd models use their respective igpu, so it's unlikely you're going to have a pleasant experience trying to drive those displays without an egpu
- ziftface 5y ago
  Well then I'm out of luck because I don't know of a GPU that can power a thunderbolt display unfortunately

makeitdouble 5y ago

This comes as a reminder that good, high resolution screens are not a given yet. Every other specs are configurable or look decent enough, and it seems to be a well thought, very competent product. I image not getting a screen on-par with current macbooks for instance to be something that was just not feasible, and clearly not an oversight.

yzmtf2008 5y ago

Tangantially related, I remember reading the Asahi Linux wiki [0], and was shocked by this statement about Apple Silicon machines. It's fascinating that Apple has a reputation for being anti-libre, yet the hardware they built is arguably very libre-friendly. > This puts them somewhere between x86 PCs and a libre-first system like the Talos II in terms of freedom to replace firmware and boot components; while a number of blobs are required in order to boot the system, none of those have the ability to take over the OS or compromise it post-boot (unlike, say, Intel ME and AMD PSP on recent systems, or the DMA-capable chips on the LPC bus running opaque blobs that exist on even old ThinkPads). > From a security perspective, these machines may possibly qualify as the most secure general purpose computers available to the public which support third-party OSes, in terms of resistance to attack by non-owners. [0]: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Introduction-to-Apple-Silicon https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Introduction-to-Appl...

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>yet the hardware they built is arguably very libre-friendly Well they're already in legal trouble for abusing their iOS market dominance with the new EU proposed legislation, they know the tides are turning against big tech, so they didn't lock down the MacBooks preemptively to brace themselves for what's coming, not because Apple has somehow now become a FOSS supporter. Before you applaud Apple for being too libre and think the company has changed direction, keep in mind this is the same company that ships recently launched monitors without user replaceable power cords and locks out in firmware the possibility to upgrade the SSDs on the very expensive Mac Studio despite teardowns showing that it's phisically possible by end users. Also, as a curiosity, why is every thread related to a X86 news, need to bring in the Apple M1 fan army and bang their drums? They serve completely different markets. For those consumers or companies that need to run X86 windows/Linux binaries that have no Mac ports, M1 based hardware is off the table from the start. And the device from this topic is designed to cater to that market, not to compete with M1.
- lumost 5y ago
  I suspect everyone is waiting for the news to drop that either a top of line ARM machine is released outside of Apple, or for AMD/Intel to announce a competitive ARM chip. Computer enthusiasts have heard for ages that X86 is bloated, and that alternate instruction sets are better if only the tooling good catch up. Now that Apple is pushing ARM across the line, and ARM servers are becoming popular - folks want to see the linux ARM machine.

ilovecaching 5y ago

I don't understand why the industry hasn't switched over completely to hidpi screens. Once you use one you can never go back. I feel so bad for people still using 1920x1080 screens. Truly the price of freedom is having to squint and lose your eyesight, hoping that font tricks can save you, when you could just be using a display with a modern amount of pixels on it.

elxr 5y ago
Agreed, my next laptop will have to be 1600p at least.
xanaxagoras 5y ago
I'm torn. A modern amount or pixels comes with a modern amount of glare. That's bad for your eyes in a different way.
slaw 5y ago
I switched from 4k to 1920x1080 and it is enough for me, 400 nits is too dim to use outdoors.

MBCook 5y ago

I know the people working on Asahi Linux don’t have things perfect yet, but it runs on an M1 Air. That machine claims 18 hours of battery life (in some tests, MacOS) and gets 14.5-16.5 hours depending on who tests it. The StarBook claims 10 and probably achieves less (everyone does). The base specs are roughly comparable, except i3 vs M1 and the high resolution screen on the Mac. The site is quoting me $883 vs $999. Even ignoring the CPU difference, the battery life alone is probably worth the $100, let alone the display. I understand the value some place on its openness, but it’s not even a medium sacrifice. It’s pretty big.

hushpuppy 5y ago
Asahi Linux will never work as well as a normal Linux machine within any sort of reasonable time frame. Even with Intel CPUs the Linux experience on Macs is kinda shit. If your goal is to have a Linux workstation then buying a Mac is pretty dumb.
sofixa 5y ago
> I understand the value some place on its openness, but it’s not even a medium sacrifice. It’s pretty big. There's open, closed, and then there's the crap Apple pull off. None of their devices are even slightly serviceable or upgradeable. RAM, disk, battery are all, physically or otherwise, fixed for the whole life of the machine. Add the huge premiums they charge for going from 8GB RAM to 16, or similar in storage, makes the sacrifice much more bearable.
xanaxagoras 5y ago
I bet the trackpad is awful compared to a MacBook, although I have no idea how it feels under Asahi. I reached the same conclusion... These m1 macs are just too good at the price point, nothing else can meaningfully compete. Once Asahi works well I'm going to have to get one.
Buxato 5y ago
It runs, without full GPU support (at the moment no 3d acceleration at all If I am not mistaken), and you have to use Asahi Linux, not your favorite distro (yet). Also many of us doesn't want to give our money to Apple.

MBCook 5y ago

Did anyone else notice the design of the arrow keys on the keyboard? That design drove me nuts when I used one of the Apple keyboards like that. I don’t think I could stand that.

hedora 5y ago
I could get used to that, but the letters and space bar seem to be off center. It looks like they added a column or two of keys to the right of the enter key. Is that a UK thing, or is the US layout also off center?

bArray 5y ago

Running this website without JS is pretty funny: > Intel® Core® 0 th generation processors > Ryzen™ 0 processor > Up to 0 GB 3200MHz memory And so on.

dlivingston 5y ago
I know disabling JS is a popular security and privacy protocol on HM, but JS is a core part of the modern web. Strange side effects seem like they should be expected.
dTal 5y ago
"No Javascript? You must be one of them Luddites. Well, have I got the machine for you..."

ChuckMcM 5y ago

So close. I really want a laptop with a "2K" 4:3 aspect ratio 14" screen, 64GB of ECC ram, a Ryzen processor, and an M.2 SSD. Would be interesting to get a nice web cam too but that is less important to me. I'm also not a huge "thinness" type, thicker is fine if it isn't heavier.

drudru 5y ago
Hey Chuck - been trying to email you. You have a bad link to your VAX stuff on your main web site.
- ChuckMcM 5y ago
  Weird, the email in my profile should work. But thanks for the tip, I'll fix the link rot
farmin 5y ago
Xps 17 is 1200x1920, 16:10. It's a great ratio and at 17 inch I don't use any scaling in windows and everything looks right size for my eyes. Can upgrade ssd and I've changed out memory to 64gb. It's a great rig but fans are a bit noisy.
- Lio 5y ago
  Sadly the XPS17 isn’t sold with Linux support. It might work but you can’t be sure of firmware updates or component compatibility. With Dell at 17” and paid Linux support you have to move to the Precision line. I wish Dell would just have a single line of quality Linux compatible laptops you could buy off the shelf and know would always work.
  - farmin 5y ago
    I went to dual boot with Ubuntu but ran into issues that were going to take more than an evening to resolve. I can't remember exactly what it was now - something about bootloader and needing to change something in Windows registry to work ?(!).

chrismorgan 5y ago

Ah, those silly number animations where you animate from zero to the desired value. Combine that with a careless form of server-side rendering (though I am glad that all of the rest of the page is correctly server-side rendered with only one or two other minor issues), and this is the JavaScript-free experience: > Intel® Core® 0 th generation processors > Ryzen™ 0 processor > Up to 0 GB 3200MHz memory > Up to 0 hrs battery life > Up to 0 GB/s SSD read speeds And more like them later in the page (like the 0° viewing angle on the 0″ 0×0 display). Amusing. (Aside: I wish people would stop doing scroll-linked transitions of any kind for regular content. It just slows everything down for no good reason. Let me see the stuff immediately as I scroll; don’t make it take another few hundred milliseconds until you fade the content in, or a second until you show the correct number.)

orphean 5y ago
It would be nice to see more uptake of CSS’ prefers-reduced-motion. It’s perfect for this exact issue. Personally I don’t have a problem with scroll linked transitions but the user should have the choice.
atoav 5y ago
I wonder what influences gimmicks like these have on search machine indexing.
dmitriid 5y ago
Everyone wants to do Apple-like product pages, and no one knows how to do Apple-like product pages. (And in fairness, Apple has forgotten how to do a proper product page, too).
- oefrha 5y ago
  A little more than a decade ago when parallax scrolling was new and seen only on a few websites like apple.com, there was a wow effect. Nowadays apple.com and clones are among the most obnoxious and tiring ad-free websites out there. Do not hijack scrolling. Use CSS scroll snap if you feel like it, but don't do anything beyond that. (To be clear, this comment is a tangent — TFA doesn't hijack scrolling. I see the same hilarious 0s everywhere effect though.)

Phenix88be 5y ago

I m happy to see that AMD Ryzen is supported ! But this laptop is missing: - a second USB-C. - You don't need that HDMI if you have enough USB-C, since you can turn them into what ever port you need. - Why the fuck do we still have USB-2 port ? - We really need to have option for the screen, 1080p is not enough for a lot of people. I like to have as much screen pixel has possible (because I can display more line of code).

capableweb 5y ago
You seem to be wanting a stationary desktop computer, not a portable laptop used for many different situations. HDMI is great when you're doing presentations all over the place, no need to keep track of dongles, most places I present at uses HDMI. USB-A is useful for tons of accessories, personally I only have a one (out of five in total) using USB-C, and most USB sticks I come across when consulting are in fact USB-A. If you're out after as much screen estate as possible, external monitors are for you. A 14-inch laptop are for people on the go.
- Phenix88be 5y ago
  > HDMI is great when you're doing presentations all over the place, no need to keep track of dongles, most places I present at uses HDMI. Then you only have an HDMI dongle. Until you present at one that use display port, someone can give you a display port dongle. > USB-A is useful for tons of accessories, personally I only have a one (out of five in total) using USB-C, and most USB sticks I come across when consulting are in fact USB-A. I know that, I m not against it at all. Just, can we USB-2 retire now ? > If you're out after as much screen estate as possible, external monitors are for you. A 14-inch laptop are for people on the go. I code on the go and I don't want to be on a small resolution laptop when I m not at home.

dainiusse 5y ago

Maybe it is a good laptop hardware-wise, but the design is from 2010

pyinstallwoes 5y ago

If anyone that works at Starlabs is here you should know that I tried to use the configuration page on my iPhone and it was pretty buggy. I tapped learn more on operating systems then it was stuck there.

tradesurplus 5y ago

Give me a truly sunlight readable display (transreflective polarized lamination or whatever works well), a high fidelity glass trackpad, good keyboard, solid case build quality and decent internal specs and I'll buy a new laptop.

mnahkies 5y ago

One thing I'm very happy to see on their configuration page is the choice of keyboard layout. It feels like most companies assume that you must want the standard layout for the country you're currently living in, when personally I just want a us layout. Do wish they had some more options for the display, but still looks like a pretty compelling and reasonably priced product.

Narretz 5y ago
I find it disappointing that non US/UK keyboard layout adds 200€ to the price. Surely the extra cost they have is a small fraction of that.
- schipplock 5y ago
  Non US/UK config defaults to core i7. The 200€ diff is i3 vs. i7.
  - Narretz 5y ago
    Oh okay, the site should make this obvious.

morsch 5y ago

Looks very similar to the TUXEDO Pulse 14, to the point that I'm wondering if it's the same OEM. I've been using the only Pulse for a while now, it's okay. Though I basically only use it plugged in to external everything and frankly would prefer to use a desktop computer, so I guess even after a few months I can't say whether it's a good mobile device. https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/10-14-inch/TUXEDO-Pulse-14-Gen1.tuxedo https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note...

h-w 5y ago
Starlabs designs their own, not the same oem.

darrenf 5y ago

I got one of these in December 2021 and frankly love it. Got fed up with being pretty much the only person on earth who had a shitty experience with Apple Silicon, so jumped back to Linux after 17 years away. I don’t use it as a portable, or at least haven’t yet - it’s my daily driver for work and permanently plugged in to a monitor (which also is a USB hub). I opted for Manjaro and enjoy using it way more than I did the M1 macbook pro it replaced. I really like that they provide a detailed pictorial complete disassembly guide: https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/guides/starbook-mk-v-complete-disassembly-guide https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/guides/starbook-mk-v-com...

mateuszf 5y ago
I have StarBook MK IV and also love it. Works great with NixOS.
yardstick 5y ago
What put you off the M1? I’m still on an Intel MBP but fear my eventual switch to an M1 will be frustrating.
- chewmieser 5y ago
  I was originally planning on waiting until like M2 but ended up needing an upgrade sooner than I had hoped for both my personal (2011) and work laptops (2016) and just have to say that M1 has been awesome so far. Snappy, low power consumption, much better cooling... I was on an Intel MBP previously and everything I was using it for is supported just fine on M1. Some things require Rosetta but most big apps have updated support for M1 directly at this point. Our docker development environment was based on x64 but it was pretty trivial to add support for ARM to it. Gaming can be a challenge (when hasn't it been with Mac though), particularly GamePass games (through Parallels Windows 11) seems to be a hit-or-miss. Games through Steam, even virtualized through Parallels, have been fine though. On my M1 Max w/ 64GB memory I can play everything I've tried at ultra settings.
  - bdcravens 5y ago

mysterypie 5y ago

You can choose between American Megatrends and coreboot. They have a FAQ with the pros and cons[1]. But I have a hard time seeing why anyone would choose the proprietary American Megatrends firmware, especially since the laptop is targeted towards Linux users. Are they offering the choice for their older customers who are used to the American Megatrends UI? Or maybe to not anger the supplier (American Megatrends) that they've been working with for years? [1] https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/faqs/ami-aptio-v-vs-coreboot https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/faqs/ami-aptio-v-vs-core...

dharmab 5y ago
The AM firmware updates are signed and Coreboot is not.
- mysterypie 5y ago
  I don't think I'd make that security tradeoff. From best to worst, I'd rank the options is this order: (1) signed open source (2) unsigned open source (3) signed proprietary (4) unsigned proprietary In some cases I might rank #3 as the worst option if it prevents me from editing the firmware binary (to fix a security bug myself or to remove tracking info like a serial number), reverse engineering the firmware to verify it (because signed code is often encrypted as well), or installing alternate firmware that might be more secure.
lozenge 5y ago
They get the AM firmware for free from the chipset manufacturer.
Jhsto 5y ago
I'm not well versed in UEFI firmware, but how is this possible: > Due to how lightweight coreboot is, it will offer better performance and lower power consumption. For example, the LabTop Mk IV combined with coreboot will offer approximately 8% more performance and around 20% longer battery life (with a record of 13 hours and 42 minutes for general use).

cloudengineer94 5y ago

Looks like the EU version of Framework! Funny enough they do give a Ryzen option which is pretty cool. Would love to go back to a PC running Linux but for the time being macOS + Brew on MacBook Air/14" is the way to go due to the battery life and performance. Oh and my 14" as a heck of a screen.

ur-whale 5y ago

> DC Jack for charging It was looking good until this. Why not USB-C ?

h-w 5y ago
It supports usb-c power delivery up to 100w
krzyk 5y ago
Exactly, very strange choice, I would prefer if they would change the DC jack into another USB-C/thuinderbolt port with PD.

lifeplusplus 5y ago

how come phones have such high density displays and it's like buying a kidney to get that same density display for laptop and monitor.

ribit 5y ago

I think it’s great the kind of initiatives are becoming more widespread. Personally, I have little interest in these kind of laptops but the more choice and variety is out there the better it is for the users.

rock_artist 5y ago

All those Linux friendly laptops are cool. but it's quite troubling to announce devices with Intel's 11th gen when 12th gen ultra-low-voltage is around the corner.

cjtrowbridge 5y ago

Why does it have a 3.5mm charger jack, but only one USB-C port which can also be used for charging? Like Just put two USB-C ports and no 3.5mm port.

gadrev 5y ago

I've been checking these out for months, unfortunately the 13" is out of stock and apparently isn't listed any more in the site :( Wanted a decent, light (physically light I mean) Linux laptop at that started at less than 900€, so probably not more than 1100/1200 after some ram/CPU tweaking. Anyone know any similar options for that size?

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

What's the equivalent of this for someone who wants to bring their own keyboard? Is there a Linux tablet that can both act like a tablet and also be the screen (and heart) of a developers "laptop" if paired with a external keyboard? Some kind of detachable "hub" that gives more IO options is optional.

hushpuppy 5y ago
They have a mini PC "Star Labs Byte". Basically a laptop sans keyboard, display, and internal battery.
funerr 5y ago
This is also a great idea when traveling!
Otek 5y ago
Recently Asus dropped new ROG tablet which looks powerful enough, but I don’t know if linux would work on it. Edit: it’s ROG Flow Z13

john61 5y ago

What proprietary Software does this need to support all hardware?

pcdoodle 5y ago

Looks fantastic but I can't do 16:9 anymore.

skocznymroczny 5y ago

Reminds me of ThinkPads. Way too thick for my taste. I'd rather get rid of HDMI and USB-A ports in favor of thinness.