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Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

194 points by horseradish 5y ago

fabiancook 5y ago
No paywall: https://web.archive.org/web/20220324080026/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/22/health/alcohol-deaths-covid.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220324080026/https://www.nytim...
Melatonic 5y ago
Not surprised at all to hear this - there was a period (maybe a few months into the initial lockdown) I was regularly hearing my neighbours completely lose their shit on a regular basis. Not even the same people either - random, different people each time. WFH + high stress + forced close proximity + drunkenness is a recipe for disaster
- rnk 5y ago
  The whole world that stayed home is stressed, depressed, not recovered. This includes high functioning adults, kids, teenagers. I am in this group as is most of my friends.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - krageon 5y ago
    > The whole world that stayed home is stressed, depressed, not recovered. Generalising about the "whole world" based on your depressed friend group is not very productive.
    - saiya-jin 5y ago
      Each case is very individual. I am still on WFH, but now its my own choice, to have more free time (and a bit of stressful crunch if too many issues meet at same time). I've spent more time in past 2 years with my small kids than I would before covid in maybe 10 years of daily office work & commute. First 3 years are invaluable time for personality building. For that only, regardless of all extra free time to do chores, pick up packages, go for walks/runs/exercises etc. it was worth it, very special time and bonds created. But yeah without kids craving for all attention they could get it would suck much much more. Even though it was hard, much harder than go for a break from kids to the office like many dads used to do.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  Arguments went up in my household. Part of it was we realized there were a lot of annoying little things that forced close proximity brought to light the other part was increased irritability from drinking way more. Once I stopped drinking the arguments went back to a normal level or maybe a little below. Not waking up hungover on a Saturday really makes the weekend nicer.
Epiphany21 5y ago
Recently (within the last two years) I had to help someone suffering with alcoholism/DTS and I was horrified by the abysmal outpatient support the medical system here provides. If he didn't have health insurance and a ride I would not have been able to convince him to go, and he could have died. It's very hard to argue with his contempt for hospitals and doctors when all they do is give you an overpriced potassium IV (very painful) then push you out the door and tell you to find an AA group. I don't even know what the solution is, but I do know the current way of doing things is inadequate and probably getting a ton of people killed. It's very sad.
- ejb999 5y ago
  >>then push you out the door and tell you to find an AA group. What is it exactly you want the hospital to do if your friend won't stop drinking?
  - dazc 5y ago
    Maybe there is something more going on than some person making a conscious decision to keep drinking? I'm not sure what the hospital should do in this exact situation but simply 'pushing someone out of the door' is very likely to have one result and this is the same person coming back through the same door time and time again.
    - ejb999 5y ago
      so you don't have any idea what 'they' should do, but clearly it's the hospitals fault. Maybe the 'they' that should do something is you?, but I guess it's actually easier to blame 'them', because 'they' should do something. Even AA doesn't want people that won't admit they have a problem. because 'they' can't do anything for them either. The problem lies with the drinker, if they don't want to stop, they have nobody to blame but themselves. How do you fix a problem that the patient won't admit they have?
      - dazc 5y ago
        What I was trying to say that it would be in the hospital's interest to offer a better solution since it will be that very same hospital that this guy will inevitably return to. I guess you are in the camp that thinks everyone can help themselves? All I would say to this is that there's lots of evidence around you that proves this idea is wrong.
lbj 5y ago
- raverbashing 5y ago
  From the article, number of alcohol deaths > rising to 99,017 in 2020, up from 78,927 the previous year Covid deaths in the US: 300k in 2020 Looks like another misrepresentation by the "covid skeptics"
  - dijonman2 5y ago
    Regardless of which side you’re on I think everyone needs to be willing to engage in civil discourse. We’re more divided than ever and should actively work to fix it. It’s true that some people are anti lockdown and there may be merit. There may not be. The truth is we won’t know for a few years until we have more information.
    - raverbashing 5y ago
      There's no debate to be had with blatant incorrect facts This is not about "maybe the person is right" or "these are debatable" it's about A > B but being claimed otherwise with one of the numbers being in TFA to push an agenda
      - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
        There are ways to correct inaccurate facts that don't lower discourse. Adding a pithy comment to the end of a correction is not productive and only serves to add emotion and tribalism to the discussion. Adding a source for the data helps too since there's no reason to believe one set of data over another if they're both unsourced. This instead invites tribalism to be the determinate of which set of data is correct and ignores the possibility that both are wrong.
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
      No, the truth is immediately apparent, and the post you're replying to is mentioning part of it: we know how many people died, and have good enough data on causes. Lockdowns caused some deaths, with alcoholism being part of it. It also saved quite a few lives by reducing the number of traffic accidents. And no matter how you slice it, nothing comes close to the number of actual COVID deaths, let alone the number of deaths we would have seen if we had let the first waves infect everyone. That would have been abut 5x as much, or 1.5 million, not including the problem that medical care and the economy would have completely collapsed in such a scenario. Anyway... "let's wait until we have all the data" has been my favorite losing argument starting in like week 5 of the pandemic, when the deaths started mounting in Sweden.
helge9210 5y ago
> Covid’s toll extends > to cope with the stress of the pandemic An euphemism at the level of "rapid unscheduled disassembly".
shrikant 5y ago
Is this some glitch in the Matrix? I could swear I saw this exact post on the front page a couple of days back, with at least a couple of the exact same comments! What even is happening! Edit: No, it's either a bug in HN, or the post's been bumped for visibility. Screenshot of a search I did just about now: https://i.imgur.com/Sr1S3eB.png https://i.imgur.com/Sr1S3eB.png Edit edit: Actually, could be a bug too, the relative and absolute timestamps on the post and comments don't match at all! :-O
- chockchocschoir 5y ago
  Probably just part of the "Second-Change" initiative. > HN's second-chance pool is a way to give links a second chance at the front page. Moderators and a small number of reviewers go through old submissions looking for articles that are in the spirit of the site—gratifying intellectual curiosity—and which seem like they might interest the community. These get put into a hopper from which software randomly picks one every so often and lobs it randomly onto the lower part of the front page. If it interests the community, it gets upvoted and discussed; if not, it falls off. - Show HN: Second-Chance Pool (news.ycombinator.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=second%20chance%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- _Microft 5y ago
  That's the second chance pool in action. If the moderators think that a submission looks good but it didn't gain traction, they might put it into this pool to be offered a second chance. You can inspect the pool here: https://news.ycombinator.com/pool https://news.ycombinator.com/pool
TaylorAlexander 5y ago
Somewhat by chance, I quit alcohol around March 15, 2020 a few days before our first lockdown. I haven't had a drink since. It was just the right time for me, but I am VERY happy I was not still drinking during all those difficult times.
- chrisjc 5y ago
  Sort of similar experience... Not that I was heavy drinker in the first place, but something strange related to alcohol started to happened to me during lockdown/covid. The very thought or taste of alcohol makes me sick and if I do drink, I am out of commission for several days. And I talking about just a single beer or a neat whiskey. Perhaps it's related to being in the same location 24/7? Perhaps I have less anxiety because I don't have to deal with people in person as much? Perhaps I'm subconsciously aware/appreciative of how fortunate/privileged I am given the situation? It's been rough, but I know others are struggling and seek solace and tranquility in their insobriety. Perhaps I just outgrew alcohol? I used to like enjoying a beer after a long day at work or during recreation. Two years on, I simply don't miss it at all. I hope that anyone dealing with this struggle and disease can find the strength, support and help they (and their families and friends) need to fight this demon.
- bluedino 5y ago
  I quit at the start of 2020 as well. But we had a kid on the way and I'm not sure how I'd mix that with drinking.
hanselot 5y ago
stef25 5y ago
Right before the first lockdown I started a new high stress job and for several months our two toddlers weren't allowed to attend school. During the first few weeks we tried to make it "fun", I'd start working around 4-5AM , alternating morning and evening shifts of work / toddlers with my partner. Then colleagues started complaining "wtf this guy's playing with his kids in the park at 2PM" and I got really bad feedback from my manager. He'd tell me full of glee that "certain colleagues" went to complain behind my back. And since then it was non stop screaming at the kids, my partner ... it was hell. I'm not even ashamed to admit I was opening bottles of wine at 10AM and downing them in 30 min. When the wife & kids went abroad for a week to stay with her parents and I took a week off from work I didn't even drink a drop of alcohol. It was purely to cope with the stress, for which alcohol does work very well! But it was a truly horrible time. And IMHO if you weren't at home with toddlers you didn't experience true suffering. Ten months in to the job I got laid off and spent a year basically doing nothing apart from be there for the kids and the household. Since then I did however develop bad sleeping habits and I still tend to wake up at 3-4AM to start work, which I actually enjoy if it wasn't for the fact you're destroyed as from late afternoon. It's been a really rough 2 years. And I really enjoyed the 5 minutes between the pandemic and WWIII.
- thesaintlives 5y ago
  Dude that sounds horrible. I feel you. Keep up the fight and try to concentrate on what is really important, you and your family. I had one wife and two dogs, now I don't. The 'pandemic' most certainly accelerated that outcome. Stay positive!
- DigitalSea 5y ago
  I am so sorry. When we talk about collateral damage from the pandemic, nobody thinks of the parents who had their kids home for months. In Australia, the lockdowns were quite severe. My wife and I were aware that while we were suffering, our kids were too. Their lives were completely turned upside down. Sadly, kids lack the needed brain capacity to deal with emotions and serious changes in routine, so it compounds the stress. To top it all off, for us, we were renovating and being without a working kitchen, bathroom, toilet for months and weeks on end, it compounded things for us. I don't know how we survived or how others did. We live in an era where we are afforded the ability to have flexible working hours, starting early and finishing early. Or chopping/changing hours and days. Your colleagues were wrong to criticise you, the metric of performance should never be measured based on hours working, but the output and quality of your work. I once worked at a place where someone was fired because his number of commits was lower than the other developers. He was a brilliant developer and always got his work done. But apparently his commits were too small (he liked to lump a lot of things into commits, instead of several smaller ones). Did you end up finding another job?
darthrupert 5y ago
I'm more and more convinced that people who don't have kids should have double the tax burden compared to parents, at least for the first 5-10 years. The stress is unimaginable, and then some people have the gall to complain when parents try to do it well. Appalling behaviour. I would not tolerate such complaints as a manager, but thankfully I have never met such attitude in my life.
- teknopaul 5y ago
  Kidless workers do have some more tax burden. If you presume that taxes are wisely spent, and some of it on education, equal tax payments result in unequal benefit. Not complaining, Just explaining. I live in a country that has decent, tax funded, public education; I understand you may not. But as a kidless tax payer, I fully support decent public education paid for with my tax contributions. I don't think tax should be used as a punishment, especially not since some people can't have kids, it's not their fault.
  - teknopaul 5y ago
    Arguably, if you consider things like military spend to be a benefit equally shared by those living in the country being secured: a couple paying taxes with no kids compared to a couple with two kids, are paying double the tax burden already. Anything spent on education, is (arguably) above that. Careful what you wish for! ;)
  - drnonsense42 5y ago
    That’s only one limited side of it. The very limited tax contribution you’re making towards their education pays off in spades for you. When you’re old, they’re fully funding your social security, providing you with healthcare, keeping you alive militarily for a long time after you have any practical value to society (well, it’s true). If they were not, and only people with children only could take advantage of the resources of the young and healthy, you wouldn’t make it to old age. Parents end up putting up the bulk of the capital to produce these highly profitable resources, and let’s face it, you’re reaping the disproportionate benefits, especially as you get older. Also, I don’t have any data, but I would wager the safe majority of childless adults are not due to infertility. I’m not saying people should be forced to have children or anything- but it’s hard to take seriously the argument that childless people are victimized by slightly excess taxes.
caloique 5y ago
ramijames 5y ago
The last two years have been some of the worst of my life.
- andygcook 5y ago
  I know it’s trite to say, but hang in there because things always get better.
  - ramijames 5y ago
    I hope you're right. Doesn't feel that way.
- bluedino 5y ago
  Why?
  - ramijames 5y ago
    Small kids. Non-stop work. No help from parents or the government. In my country if you're a freelancer, you got zero pandemic-related stipends. Has ended in divorce. Traumatized kids. I'm an emotional wreck, but I try to hide it and soldier on. There's only so much people can take before they give up.
    - barbazoo 5y ago
      I wish you the best and hope things get better for you.
    - mrguyorama 5y ago
      Child of (now many times) divorced parents. It's often the right choice. Just try not to bad mouth the other parent in front of them. That hurts worse than having two Christmases.
      - ramijames 5y ago
        Ya, I know better than that.
kaishiro 5y ago
My older brother is an alcoholic. I suspect it's somewhat cliche to say, but when he's sober he's the nicest guy I know - almost nobody else I'd rather spend time with - and when he's drunk, he's chaos. The past few years he's been really struggling with sobriety - on and off like a roller coaster. The pandemic was an absolute nightmare for someone like him - in between jobs, trying to stay sober, trying to find the right balance of anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds, and all with a limited budget and shitty health insurance. It breaks my heart that I can't do it for him.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Has he tried antabuse or something like that? Those pills make you vomit when you drink and are quite effective in harnessing the body's natural anti-poison response system to curb drinking.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Coprinus comatus mushroom has a similar effect. Just thought others would find that interesting as I do.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    For some reason we, as a society, have decided certain health problems are moral failures to be treated with shame and cured through willpower alone rather than modern medical intervention.
    - ponow 5y ago
      "For some reason" there are temptations to addiction all around us, and alcohol is only one. We can't treat being human as merely a medical condition. Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool.
      - _jal 5y ago
        > Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool. A rather poorly targeted and counterproductive one. Note that you immediately assumed a puritan view, that addiction is solely an individual moral failing. > there are temptations to addiction all around us
dataengineer56 5y ago
I find it interesting how otherwise smart people rationalise drinking alcohol because "everyone else does it". My life was completely changed by Allen Carr's Easyway To Stop Drinking (available in audio books, hardback, Kindle etc). The author basically takes every reason people give for drinking and logically destroys it, often proving that the exact opposite is true. There's also an interesting BBC documentary by Adrian Chiles called Drinkers Like Me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsSC03VKZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsSC03VKZo) which disspells the myth that you're only an alcoholic if you drink in the morning, among other things. I think in the future people will look back on drinking in the same way that we currently look back on smoking.
- chockchocschoir 5y ago
  Interesting. So I both drink and smoke because I enjoy it and life is too short to not do things you enjoy (applicable to all things in life), even if it shortens my life-span by some years give or take. What is the logical evidence proving that I actually don't enjoy it?
  - dataengineer56 5y ago
    I would recommend you read the book, but why do you think you enjoy it? Do you enjoy the taste, do you think it helps you relax, do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations?
    - chockchocschoir 5y ago
      It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking. It's enjoyable on multiple levels, just like gaming, commenting on HN, reading interesting articles, going for bike rides, eating good food and many other things. I understand for people who have negative consequences for something would like to stop (when they're addicted), but if the negative consequences are small compared to the enjoyability, what's the point of stopping something?
      - 5y ago
narenkeshav 5y ago
They should've opted for weed.
- doitLP 5y ago
  Anecdotally I know 3 adults in 3 different states who tried weed for the first time during the pandemic and all of them developed new-onset panic attacks and disassociative symptoms within less than 6 months of regular use and had to stop. Not sure if it was better than alcohol…
  - gilbetron 5y ago
    Yeah, I played around with it before the pandemic started and found it meh. When the pandemic was in full swing, I tried it again as an alternative to alcohol and found that it made things far worse. I think it just hits me differently than people that like the stuff. I have zero desire to ever use it again because all it makes me do is feel paranoid and nervous.
  - standardUser 5y ago
    Weed is so much harder to dose than alcohol. And our conventions and traditions seem to have us overdosing on weed as the default.
steveBK123 5y ago
Similarly when the divorce stats for this period come out in a year or two it will be stunning I have more friends/neighbors/professional acquaintances who got divorced in the last 2 years than in the previous 10. The last 2 years have been very good for some, and very bad for others. Few had a normal one.
- matwood 5y ago
  Yeah, some people have called it the great quickening. Basically, all the couples would have ended up divorced at some point, and it only accelerated the process.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  > The last 2 years have been very good for some, and very bad for others. This seems like a great way to put it. Personally I've loved my time during the pandemic. Chilling at home with my SO and some marijuana after work is my happy place. Seems like the pandemic forced a lot of people to spend more time with their family which caused them to realize they had settled down with the wrong people.
thealbert08 5y ago
hackeraccount 5y ago
I am so glad I got married and had a kid. My wife doesn't drink - and honestly it's way less fun to drink - even have a glass of wine with a meal - when someone else isn't. Plus with my daughter I don't drink when my wife isn't around because I'm always worried something is going to come up and I'll have to drive her some place on short notice. I think if it were just me on my own I might drink more ... and I always kind of worry that I'd get a taste for not the drink but just that mellow relaxed feel no pain that comes with 2 or 3 drinks. That's trouble for me I think.
- after_care 5y ago
  Always having meals with the same people, being consistently worried you’ll be responsible to drop what you’re doing on short notice to drive someone. I’m glad I did not marry or have kids.
  - rags2riches 5y ago
    For some, it's the worst thing imaginable to have to put something other than themselves first. For others, finding something more important than themselves is what gives their life meaning.
  - spicyusername 5y ago
    Having a spouse and a family is super sweet. Constant emotional support and social fulfillment. An endless stream of small sweet positive moments. The ever-growing feeling of satisfaction that comes with watching your children grow, mature, and succeed. The pride that comes with improving and being a good parent or a good spouse. Having someone who is there for you and has your back 100%. I'm not saying being single, childless, nomadic, or any other kind of lifestyle isn't also sweet too, or that marriage and parenthood is for everyone, but don't let a few negative comments from one person's anecdote be your definition of parenthood or marriage. When done well, they are two of the most fulfilling and rewarding endeavors you can embark on. You also can definitely have meals with other people as you like lol.
  - tasty_freeze 5y ago
geden 5y ago
I stopped drinking during the pandemic. I think for good. I wasn't drinking much. A bottle of wine or two at the weekend with my wife. Never really liked beer that much. It's hard to articulate exactly why I stopped I think there was some sort of insight into how boring and mechanical it had become, how little I was gaining from it, the drip drip negative effect it had on my body and crucially, how my drinking enabled and encouraged others to drink. Me continuing to drink was also making me feel morally very queasy when I personally knew two people who drank themselves to death. Not close friends. Both close enough for it to sting. One of them was an incredible talented music producer and a great loss to the world. It's a very shit drug. The only reason I ever started drinking was to be inside the 'in' group and to have fun with friends. It's abundantly clear now that alcohol isn't necessary for that at my age. The only downside has been watching with crystal clarity how boring and dull when intoxicated people become at gatherings. Better drugs for inhibited teenagers please. Microdosed kombucha for the win.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I switched almost entirely over to non-alcoholic beer in pandemic. It wasn't particularly health or problem related, but just that I like the taste of beer, but don't need the alcohol and two real beers would leave me slightly hungover/tired the next day while NA beers don't.
  - ativzzz 5y ago
    Athletic Brewing makes good non alcoholic beers!
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  Yup. If you take out social pressure the "benefits" of booze are pretty low. Many people only drink because other people around them are drinking. That is not really a good reason to take a serious drug.
black_13 5y ago
patwolf 5y ago
The stat from the article that blows my mind is that over 100,000 Americans died of drug overdoses in a 12-month period. The CDC categorizes it with "accidents", so it's easy to overlook when looking at leading causes of death in the US.
psychlops 5y ago
I notice that "the pandemic" is quickly found as the root cause and no analysis at all is done to identify if the response to the pandemic is to be implicated as well. I'd wager that waking up one day and discovering that one's job is not essential might be stressful. Being forbidden from going to the beaches and parks might have contributed. The stress of learned helplessness from countless bureaucratic decisions later proven baseless could be analyzed as well.
- b3nji 5y ago
  Yes, sadly it appears this is likely the case. It appears that the reaction to the virus has possibly caused so much more harm than the virus itself.
  - jquery 5y ago
    > It appears that the reaction to the virus has possibly caused so much more harm than the virus itself Too early to know. It’ll take years before we know the full consequences of the anti-vaxx movement.
    - b3nji 5y ago
      Not according to a number of experts it isn't. Like you said, time will tell. The enquiry into it is just starting up in my country. I'm sure experts from all sides will get together, and see what went wrong. "Lockdowns Cost More Lives Than They Saved and Must Not Happen Again, Scientists Tell MPs" https://dailysceptic.org/2022/03/30/lockdowns-cost-more-lives-than-they-saved-and-must-not-happen-again-scientists-tell-mps/ https://dailysceptic.org/2022/03/30/lockdowns-cost-more-live...
- emerged 5y ago
  Well you clearly didn’t read the article because the entire thing is talking about all of the sorts of causes you listed.
  - psychlops 5y ago
tzs 5y ago
Maybe next time we get a pandemic that needs people to stay at home a lot we should issue everyone vouchers good for a free decent beginner's musical instrument and enough free lessons with an instructor over video chat to teach them enough of the basics to get them to where they can continue learning from books and YouTube without an instructor. That might give people something to both distract them from the pandemic and take up time that might otherwise go to less healthy pursuits. When you are practicing 40 hours a day (69 hours a day if your instrument is bass) there isn't much time to drink. On the other hand, I suppose it might also lead to an increase in murders and divorces due to how annoying it can be to be in a household with a beginning musician if there is no place they can practice out of earshot of the rest of the household, so it might not be a net win.
- hdesh 5y ago
  Good point about music. I have used the pandemic as an opportunity to get back at playing the keyboard. I have put it right next to my desk, so if I have to take a break from work, I can play it.
  - tzs 5y ago
    From what I've read, a fair number of people had the same idea. E.g., https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/23/a-new-obsession-the-people-who-learnt-to-play-instruments-during-lockdown https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/23/a-new-obsessio... https://www.aarp.org/home-family/friends-family/info-2020/learn-to-play-instrument-coronavirus.html https://www.aarp.org/home-family/friends-family/info-2020/le... https://www.wpr.org/more-people-are-playing-instruments-during-pandemic-heres-how-get-started-yourself https://www.wpr.org/more-people-are-playing-instruments-duri... https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58556770 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58556770 https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/five-tips-learning-play-musical-instrument-lockdown https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/five-tips-learning-play-musica... Studies have shown that taking up an instrument does have excellent mental health benefits: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6368928/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6368928/ https://consequence.net/2020/07/musical-instrument-mental-health-study/ https://consequence.net/2020/07/musical-instrument-mental-he...
servytor 5y ago
I discovered Kudzu[0] and alcoholism a while ago and hope it might help somebody here or their friend or loved one. Kudzu apparently is an amazing drug for helping people quit drinking. I hope if anybody here has trouble, or knows someone with trouble, they try introducing it to them if it makes sense to them. Here is a BBC article[1], but they only did 500mg instead of 2g. Apparently it works by helping you feel drunk faster, speeding up the time delay effect and thus making you not want to drink as much. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4510012/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4510012/ [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35381041 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35381041
- after_care 5y ago
  From the nih link > Drinking was recorded using a custom built end table that contained a digital scale beneath a ceramic tile insert in the tabletop (Ohaus model #B10P with I5S controller). Participants were instructed to always keep the beer glass on the table except when taking a sip. The scale was connected to a computer in an adjacent room that ran a customized program that sampled the scale at 5 Hz and detected any weight changes that exceeded 1 gm. This rapid sampling of the weight permitted a real time assessment of drinking topography that included gross measures of volume and number of beers consumed but also provided details on a more micro level and included the number and size of sips taken, latency to opening a beer, and consumption time of each beer. Additional details and photos of the device can be found in Lukas et al. (2005). Breath alcohol levels were assessed using an Alco-Sensor FST breathalyzer (Intoximeter, Inc., St. Louis, MO) both before and after the drinking session; values were not collected during the active alcohol acquisition period to avoid interacting with the participant and allowing natural drinking patterns to emerge. I would buy this product for my desk to measure water and coffee intact. Bonus points if it could detect the type of drink automatically based on some measured physical property. It might work well as a cup/bottle instead of a coaster.
adamrezich 5y ago
crazy how absolutely nobody saw nth-order effects coming
- barbazoo 5y ago
  I'm trying not to armchair quarterback so I'm asking, what would you have done differently? Aren't there obvious priorities here that need to be dealt with and a deep analysis about potential pandemic responses and their n-th order effects would have been even more detrimental?
  - adamrezich 5y ago
    I don't think it's too outlandish to have taken a look at the measures taken as they were being proposed and then taken and say to oneself, "this is going to have nth-order effects, many of which are easily predictable, and we should weigh these accordingly." instead, anyone who approached things from this perspective was shouted down, told they were participating in killing people, etc. etc. these nth-order effects range from personal (alcohol-related deaths, children socializing/learning to read faces poorly, effects on education, effects on mental health) to economic (independent stores closing while big box stores flourish). all of these things and many more were dismissed at the time in favor of taking radical actions which have yet to be proven to be effective. (but they had to be effective, because if we didn't take those actions, things would be worse now, right?)
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  I was yelled at by some people I know quite well when I pointed this stuff out. Only covid mattered to these people. Even when we knew it wasn't nearly as bad as the original models predicted society doubled down on the nonsense.
vmception 5y ago
What's the latest research on the causes of these predispositions to addiction? Any gut bacteria link? Any gene that can be suppressed?
asdfjlkjt43tl 5y ago
[flagged]
asdfjlkjt43tl 5y ago
AlwaysRock 5y ago
I drank so much during the first few months of the pandemic that I had to give up drinking altogether. The hangovers and mood swings from drinking regularly were too much and just not worth it for me. I love booze but I didnt drink until I was in my mid 20's so it was easyish for me to stop. I imagine a lot of people were on the edge of very dangerous drinking habits and this pushed them over the edge.
KuhlMensch 5y ago
Over pandemic I lernt: - I love getting pissed at the pub - I hate getting pissed at home doing nothing - I love the taste of non-alcoholic beer
imranq 5y ago
Cultural acceptance of alcohol use is a strong confounding factor. It should be be in the same category as marijuana, smoking, and other harmful substances

194 points by horseradish 5y ago

No paywall: https://web.archive.org/web/20220324080026/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/22/health/alcohol-deaths-covid.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220324080026/https://www.nytim...

Melatonic 5y ago

Not surprised at all to hear this - there was a period (maybe a few months into the initial lockdown) I was regularly hearing my neighbours completely lose their shit on a regular basis. Not even the same people either - random, different people each time. WFH + high stress + forced close proximity + drunkenness is a recipe for disaster

rnk 5y ago
The whole world that stayed home is stressed, depressed, not recovered. This includes high functioning adults, kids, teenagers. I am in this group as is most of my friends.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- krageon 5y ago
  > The whole world that stayed home is stressed, depressed, not recovered. Generalising about the "whole world" based on your depressed friend group is not very productive.
  - saiya-jin 5y ago
    Each case is very individual. I am still on WFH, but now its my own choice, to have more free time (and a bit of stressful crunch if too many issues meet at same time). I've spent more time in past 2 years with my small kids than I would before covid in maybe 10 years of daily office work & commute. First 3 years are invaluable time for personality building. For that only, regardless of all extra free time to do chores, pick up packages, go for walks/runs/exercises etc. it was worth it, very special time and bonds created. But yeah without kids craving for all attention they could get it would suck much much more. Even though it was hard, much harder than go for a break from kids to the office like many dads used to do.
AlwaysRock 5y ago
Arguments went up in my household. Part of it was we realized there were a lot of annoying little things that forced close proximity brought to light the other part was increased irritability from drinking way more. Once I stopped drinking the arguments went back to a normal level or maybe a little below. Not waking up hungover on a Saturday really makes the weekend nicer.

Epiphany21 5y ago

Recently (within the last two years) I had to help someone suffering with alcoholism/DTS and I was horrified by the abysmal outpatient support the medical system here provides. If he didn't have health insurance and a ride I would not have been able to convince him to go, and he could have died. It's very hard to argue with his contempt for hospitals and doctors when all they do is give you an overpriced potassium IV (very painful) then push you out the door and tell you to find an AA group. I don't even know what the solution is, but I do know the current way of doing things is inadequate and probably getting a ton of people killed. It's very sad.

ejb999 5y ago
>>then push you out the door and tell you to find an AA group. What is it exactly you want the hospital to do if your friend won't stop drinking?
- dazc 5y ago
  Maybe there is something more going on than some person making a conscious decision to keep drinking? I'm not sure what the hospital should do in this exact situation but simply 'pushing someone out of the door' is very likely to have one result and this is the same person coming back through the same door time and time again.
  - ejb999 5y ago
    so you don't have any idea what 'they' should do, but clearly it's the hospitals fault. Maybe the 'they' that should do something is you?, but I guess it's actually easier to blame 'them', because 'they' should do something. Even AA doesn't want people that won't admit they have a problem. because 'they' can't do anything for them either. The problem lies with the drinker, if they don't want to stop, they have nobody to blame but themselves. How do you fix a problem that the patient won't admit they have?
    - dazc 5y ago
      What I was trying to say that it would be in the hospital's interest to offer a better solution since it will be that very same hospital that this guy will inevitably return to. I guess you are in the camp that thinks everyone can help themselves? All I would say to this is that there's lots of evidence around you that proves this idea is wrong.

lbj 5y ago

raverbashing 5y ago
From the article, number of alcohol deaths > rising to 99,017 in 2020, up from 78,927 the previous year Covid deaths in the US: 300k in 2020 Looks like another misrepresentation by the "covid skeptics"
- dijonman2 5y ago
  Regardless of which side you’re on I think everyone needs to be willing to engage in civil discourse. We’re more divided than ever and should actively work to fix it. It’s true that some people are anti lockdown and there may be merit. There may not be. The truth is we won’t know for a few years until we have more information.
  - raverbashing 5y ago
    There's no debate to be had with blatant incorrect facts This is not about "maybe the person is right" or "these are debatable" it's about A > B but being claimed otherwise with one of the numbers being in TFA to push an agenda
    - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
      There are ways to correct inaccurate facts that don't lower discourse. Adding a pithy comment to the end of a correction is not productive and only serves to add emotion and tribalism to the discussion. Adding a source for the data helps too since there's no reason to believe one set of data over another if they're both unsourced. This instead invites tribalism to be the determinate of which set of data is correct and ignores the possibility that both are wrong.
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
    No, the truth is immediately apparent, and the post you're replying to is mentioning part of it: we know how many people died, and have good enough data on causes. Lockdowns caused some deaths, with alcoholism being part of it. It also saved quite a few lives by reducing the number of traffic accidents. And no matter how you slice it, nothing comes close to the number of actual COVID deaths, let alone the number of deaths we would have seen if we had let the first waves infect everyone. That would have been abut 5x as much, or 1.5 million, not including the problem that medical care and the economy would have completely collapsed in such a scenario. Anyway... "let's wait until we have all the data" has been my favorite losing argument starting in like week 5 of the pandemic, when the deaths started mounting in Sweden.

helge9210 5y ago

> Covid’s toll extends > to cope with the stress of the pandemic An euphemism at the level of "rapid unscheduled disassembly".

shrikant 5y ago

Is this some glitch in the Matrix? I could swear I saw this exact post on the front page a couple of days back, with at least a couple of the exact same comments! What even is happening! Edit: No, it's either a bug in HN, or the post's been bumped for visibility. Screenshot of a search I did just about now: https://i.imgur.com/Sr1S3eB.png https://i.imgur.com/Sr1S3eB.png Edit edit: Actually, could be a bug too, the relative and absolute timestamps on the post and comments don't match at all! :-O

chockchocschoir 5y ago
Probably just part of the "Second-Change" initiative. > HN's second-chance pool is a way to give links a second chance at the front page. Moderators and a small number of reviewers go through old submissions looking for articles that are in the spirit of the site—gratifying intellectual curiosity—and which seem like they might interest the community. These get put into a hopper from which software randomly picks one every so often and lobs it randomly onto the lower part of the front page. If it interests the community, it gets upvoted and discussed; if not, it falls off. - Show HN: Second-Chance Pool (news.ycombinator.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=second%20chance%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
_Microft 5y ago
That's the second chance pool in action. If the moderators think that a submission looks good but it didn't gain traction, they might put it into this pool to be offered a second chance. You can inspect the pool here: https://news.ycombinator.com/pool https://news.ycombinator.com/pool

TaylorAlexander 5y ago

Somewhat by chance, I quit alcohol around March 15, 2020 a few days before our first lockdown. I haven't had a drink since. It was just the right time for me, but I am VERY happy I was not still drinking during all those difficult times.

chrisjc 5y ago
Sort of similar experience... Not that I was heavy drinker in the first place, but something strange related to alcohol started to happened to me during lockdown/covid. The very thought or taste of alcohol makes me sick and if I do drink, I am out of commission for several days. And I talking about just a single beer or a neat whiskey. Perhaps it's related to being in the same location 24/7? Perhaps I have less anxiety because I don't have to deal with people in person as much? Perhaps I'm subconsciously aware/appreciative of how fortunate/privileged I am given the situation? It's been rough, but I know others are struggling and seek solace and tranquility in their insobriety. Perhaps I just outgrew alcohol? I used to like enjoying a beer after a long day at work or during recreation. Two years on, I simply don't miss it at all. I hope that anyone dealing with this struggle and disease can find the strength, support and help they (and their families and friends) need to fight this demon.
bluedino 5y ago
I quit at the start of 2020 as well. But we had a kid on the way and I'm not sure how I'd mix that with drinking.

hanselot 5y ago

stef25 5y ago

Right before the first lockdown I started a new high stress job and for several months our two toddlers weren't allowed to attend school. During the first few weeks we tried to make it "fun", I'd start working around 4-5AM , alternating morning and evening shifts of work / toddlers with my partner. Then colleagues started complaining "wtf this guy's playing with his kids in the park at 2PM" and I got really bad feedback from my manager. He'd tell me full of glee that "certain colleagues" went to complain behind my back. And since then it was non stop screaming at the kids, my partner ... it was hell. I'm not even ashamed to admit I was opening bottles of wine at 10AM and downing them in 30 min. When the wife & kids went abroad for a week to stay with her parents and I took a week off from work I didn't even drink a drop of alcohol. It was purely to cope with the stress, for which alcohol does work very well! But it was a truly horrible time. And IMHO if you weren't at home with toddlers you didn't experience true suffering. Ten months in to the job I got laid off and spent a year basically doing nothing apart from be there for the kids and the household. Since then I did however develop bad sleeping habits and I still tend to wake up at 3-4AM to start work, which I actually enjoy if it wasn't for the fact you're destroyed as from late afternoon. It's been a really rough 2 years. And I really enjoyed the 5 minutes between the pandemic and WWIII.

thesaintlives 5y ago
Dude that sounds horrible. I feel you. Keep up the fight and try to concentrate on what is really important, you and your family. I had one wife and two dogs, now I don't. The 'pandemic' most certainly accelerated that outcome. Stay positive!
DigitalSea 5y ago
I am so sorry. When we talk about collateral damage from the pandemic, nobody thinks of the parents who had their kids home for months. In Australia, the lockdowns were quite severe. My wife and I were aware that while we were suffering, our kids were too. Their lives were completely turned upside down. Sadly, kids lack the needed brain capacity to deal with emotions and serious changes in routine, so it compounds the stress. To top it all off, for us, we were renovating and being without a working kitchen, bathroom, toilet for months and weeks on end, it compounded things for us. I don't know how we survived or how others did. We live in an era where we are afforded the ability to have flexible working hours, starting early and finishing early. Or chopping/changing hours and days. Your colleagues were wrong to criticise you, the metric of performance should never be measured based on hours working, but the output and quality of your work. I once worked at a place where someone was fired because his number of commits was lower than the other developers. He was a brilliant developer and always got his work done. But apparently his commits were too small (he liked to lump a lot of things into commits, instead of several smaller ones). Did you end up finding another job?

darthrupert 5y ago

I'm more and more convinced that people who don't have kids should have double the tax burden compared to parents, at least for the first 5-10 years. The stress is unimaginable, and then some people have the gall to complain when parents try to do it well. Appalling behaviour. I would not tolerate such complaints as a manager, but thankfully I have never met such attitude in my life.

teknopaul 5y ago
Kidless workers do have some more tax burden. If you presume that taxes are wisely spent, and some of it on education, equal tax payments result in unequal benefit. Not complaining, Just explaining. I live in a country that has decent, tax funded, public education; I understand you may not. But as a kidless tax payer, I fully support decent public education paid for with my tax contributions. I don't think tax should be used as a punishment, especially not since some people can't have kids, it's not their fault.
- teknopaul 5y ago
  Arguably, if you consider things like military spend to be a benefit equally shared by those living in the country being secured: a couple paying taxes with no kids compared to a couple with two kids, are paying double the tax burden already. Anything spent on education, is (arguably) above that. Careful what you wish for! ;)
- drnonsense42 5y ago
  That’s only one limited side of it. The very limited tax contribution you’re making towards their education pays off in spades for you. When you’re old, they’re fully funding your social security, providing you with healthcare, keeping you alive militarily for a long time after you have any practical value to society (well, it’s true). If they were not, and only people with children only could take advantage of the resources of the young and healthy, you wouldn’t make it to old age. Parents end up putting up the bulk of the capital to produce these highly profitable resources, and let’s face it, you’re reaping the disproportionate benefits, especially as you get older. Also, I don’t have any data, but I would wager the safe majority of childless adults are not due to infertility. I’m not saying people should be forced to have children or anything- but it’s hard to take seriously the argument that childless people are victimized by slightly excess taxes.

caloique 5y ago

ramijames 5y ago

The last two years have been some of the worst of my life.

andygcook 5y ago
I know it’s trite to say, but hang in there because things always get better.
- ramijames 5y ago
  I hope you're right. Doesn't feel that way.
bluedino 5y ago
Why?
- ramijames 5y ago
  Small kids. Non-stop work. No help from parents or the government. In my country if you're a freelancer, you got zero pandemic-related stipends. Has ended in divorce. Traumatized kids. I'm an emotional wreck, but I try to hide it and soldier on. There's only so much people can take before they give up.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    I wish you the best and hope things get better for you.
  - mrguyorama 5y ago
    Child of (now many times) divorced parents. It's often the right choice. Just try not to bad mouth the other parent in front of them. That hurts worse than having two Christmases.
    - ramijames 5y ago
      Ya, I know better than that.

kaishiro 5y ago

My older brother is an alcoholic. I suspect it's somewhat cliche to say, but when he's sober he's the nicest guy I know - almost nobody else I'd rather spend time with - and when he's drunk, he's chaos. The past few years he's been really struggling with sobriety - on and off like a roller coaster. The pandemic was an absolute nightmare for someone like him - in between jobs, trying to stay sober, trying to find the right balance of anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds, and all with a limited budget and shitty health insurance. It breaks my heart that I can't do it for him.

sjg007 5y ago
Has he tried antabuse or something like that? Those pills make you vomit when you drink and are quite effective in harnessing the body's natural anti-poison response system to curb drinking.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Coprinus comatus mushroom has a similar effect. Just thought others would find that interesting as I do.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  For some reason we, as a society, have decided certain health problems are moral failures to be treated with shame and cured through willpower alone rather than modern medical intervention.
  - ponow 5y ago
    "For some reason" there are temptations to addiction all around us, and alcohol is only one. We can't treat being human as merely a medical condition. Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool.
    - _jal 5y ago
      > Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool. A rather poorly targeted and counterproductive one. Note that you immediately assumed a puritan view, that addiction is solely an individual moral failing. > there are temptations to addiction all around us

dataengineer56 5y ago

I find it interesting how otherwise smart people rationalise drinking alcohol because "everyone else does it". My life was completely changed by Allen Carr's Easyway To Stop Drinking (available in audio books, hardback, Kindle etc). The author basically takes every reason people give for drinking and logically destroys it, often proving that the exact opposite is true. There's also an interesting BBC documentary by Adrian Chiles called Drinkers Like Me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsSC03VKZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsSC03VKZo) which disspells the myth that you're only an alcoholic if you drink in the morning, among other things. I think in the future people will look back on drinking in the same way that we currently look back on smoking.

chockchocschoir 5y ago
Interesting. So I both drink and smoke because I enjoy it and life is too short to not do things you enjoy (applicable to all things in life), even if it shortens my life-span by some years give or take. What is the logical evidence proving that I actually don't enjoy it?
- dataengineer56 5y ago
  I would recommend you read the book, but why do you think you enjoy it? Do you enjoy the taste, do you think it helps you relax, do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations?
  - chockchocschoir 5y ago
    It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking. It's enjoyable on multiple levels, just like gaming, commenting on HN, reading interesting articles, going for bike rides, eating good food and many other things. I understand for people who have negative consequences for something would like to stop (when they're addicted), but if the negative consequences are small compared to the enjoyability, what's the point of stopping something?
    - 5y ago

narenkeshav 5y ago

They should've opted for weed.

doitLP 5y ago
Anecdotally I know 3 adults in 3 different states who tried weed for the first time during the pandemic and all of them developed new-onset panic attacks and disassociative symptoms within less than 6 months of regular use and had to stop. Not sure if it was better than alcohol…
- gilbetron 5y ago
  Yeah, I played around with it before the pandemic started and found it meh. When the pandemic was in full swing, I tried it again as an alternative to alcohol and found that it made things far worse. I think it just hits me differently than people that like the stuff. I have zero desire to ever use it again because all it makes me do is feel paranoid and nervous.
- standardUser 5y ago
  Weed is so much harder to dose than alcohol. And our conventions and traditions seem to have us overdosing on weed as the default.

steveBK123 5y ago

Similarly when the divorce stats for this period come out in a year or two it will be stunning I have more friends/neighbors/professional acquaintances who got divorced in the last 2 years than in the previous 10. The last 2 years have been very good for some, and very bad for others. Few had a normal one.

matwood 5y ago
Yeah, some people have called it the great quickening. Basically, all the couples would have ended up divorced at some point, and it only accelerated the process.
colinmhayes 5y ago
> The last 2 years have been very good for some, and very bad for others. This seems like a great way to put it. Personally I've loved my time during the pandemic. Chilling at home with my SO and some marijuana after work is my happy place. Seems like the pandemic forced a lot of people to spend more time with their family which caused them to realize they had settled down with the wrong people.

thealbert08 5y ago

hackeraccount 5y ago

I am so glad I got married and had a kid. My wife doesn't drink - and honestly it's way less fun to drink - even have a glass of wine with a meal - when someone else isn't. Plus with my daughter I don't drink when my wife isn't around because I'm always worried something is going to come up and I'll have to drive her some place on short notice. I think if it were just me on my own I might drink more ... and I always kind of worry that I'd get a taste for not the drink but just that mellow relaxed feel no pain that comes with 2 or 3 drinks. That's trouble for me I think.

after_care 5y ago
Always having meals with the same people, being consistently worried you’ll be responsible to drop what you’re doing on short notice to drive someone. I’m glad I did not marry or have kids.
- rags2riches 5y ago
  For some, it's the worst thing imaginable to have to put something other than themselves first. For others, finding something more important than themselves is what gives their life meaning.
- spicyusername 5y ago
  Having a spouse and a family is super sweet. Constant emotional support and social fulfillment. An endless stream of small sweet positive moments. The ever-growing feeling of satisfaction that comes with watching your children grow, mature, and succeed. The pride that comes with improving and being a good parent or a good spouse. Having someone who is there for you and has your back 100%. I'm not saying being single, childless, nomadic, or any other kind of lifestyle isn't also sweet too, or that marriage and parenthood is for everyone, but don't let a few negative comments from one person's anecdote be your definition of parenthood or marriage. When done well, they are two of the most fulfilling and rewarding endeavors you can embark on. You also can definitely have meals with other people as you like lol.
- tasty_freeze 5y ago

geden 5y ago

I stopped drinking during the pandemic. I think for good. I wasn't drinking much. A bottle of wine or two at the weekend with my wife. Never really liked beer that much. It's hard to articulate exactly why I stopped I think there was some sort of insight into how boring and mechanical it had become, how little I was gaining from it, the drip drip negative effect it had on my body and crucially, how my drinking enabled and encouraged others to drink. Me continuing to drink was also making me feel morally very queasy when I personally knew two people who drank themselves to death. Not close friends. Both close enough for it to sting. One of them was an incredible talented music producer and a great loss to the world. It's a very shit drug. The only reason I ever started drinking was to be inside the 'in' group and to have fun with friends. It's abundantly clear now that alcohol isn't necessary for that at my age. The only downside has been watching with crystal clarity how boring and dull when intoxicated people become at gatherings. Better drugs for inhibited teenagers please. Microdosed kombucha for the win.

sokoloff 5y ago
I switched almost entirely over to non-alcoholic beer in pandemic. It wasn't particularly health or problem related, but just that I like the taste of beer, but don't need the alcohol and two real beers would leave me slightly hungover/tired the next day while NA beers don't.
- ativzzz 5y ago
  Athletic Brewing makes good non alcoholic beers!
AlwaysRock 5y ago
Yup. If you take out social pressure the "benefits" of booze are pretty low. Many people only drink because other people around them are drinking. That is not really a good reason to take a serious drug.

black_13 5y ago

patwolf 5y ago

The stat from the article that blows my mind is that over 100,000 Americans died of drug overdoses in a 12-month period. The CDC categorizes it with "accidents", so it's easy to overlook when looking at leading causes of death in the US.

psychlops 5y ago

I notice that "the pandemic" is quickly found as the root cause and no analysis at all is done to identify if the response to the pandemic is to be implicated as well. I'd wager that waking up one day and discovering that one's job is not essential might be stressful. Being forbidden from going to the beaches and parks might have contributed. The stress of learned helplessness from countless bureaucratic decisions later proven baseless could be analyzed as well.

b3nji 5y ago
Yes, sadly it appears this is likely the case. It appears that the reaction to the virus has possibly caused so much more harm than the virus itself.
- jquery 5y ago
  > It appears that the reaction to the virus has possibly caused so much more harm than the virus itself Too early to know. It’ll take years before we know the full consequences of the anti-vaxx movement.
  - b3nji 5y ago
    Not according to a number of experts it isn't. Like you said, time will tell. The enquiry into it is just starting up in my country. I'm sure experts from all sides will get together, and see what went wrong. "Lockdowns Cost More Lives Than They Saved and Must Not Happen Again, Scientists Tell MPs" https://dailysceptic.org/2022/03/30/lockdowns-cost-more-lives-than-they-saved-and-must-not-happen-again-scientists-tell-mps/ https://dailysceptic.org/2022/03/30/lockdowns-cost-more-live...
emerged 5y ago
Well you clearly didn’t read the article because the entire thing is talking about all of the sorts of causes you listed.
- psychlops 5y ago

tzs 5y ago

Maybe next time we get a pandemic that needs people to stay at home a lot we should issue everyone vouchers good for a free decent beginner's musical instrument and enough free lessons with an instructor over video chat to teach them enough of the basics to get them to where they can continue learning from books and YouTube without an instructor. That might give people something to both distract them from the pandemic and take up time that might otherwise go to less healthy pursuits. When you are practicing 40 hours a day (69 hours a day if your instrument is bass) there isn't much time to drink. On the other hand, I suppose it might also lead to an increase in murders and divorces due to how annoying it can be to be in a household with a beginning musician if there is no place they can practice out of earshot of the rest of the household, so it might not be a net win.

hdesh 5y ago
Good point about music. I have used the pandemic as an opportunity to get back at playing the keyboard. I have put it right next to my desk, so if I have to take a break from work, I can play it.
- tzs 5y ago
  From what I've read, a fair number of people had the same idea. E.g., https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/23/a-new-obsession-the-people-who-learnt-to-play-instruments-during-lockdown https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/23/a-new-obsessio... https://www.aarp.org/home-family/friends-family/info-2020/learn-to-play-instrument-coronavirus.html https://www.aarp.org/home-family/friends-family/info-2020/le... https://www.wpr.org/more-people-are-playing-instruments-during-pandemic-heres-how-get-started-yourself https://www.wpr.org/more-people-are-playing-instruments-duri... https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58556770 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58556770 https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/five-tips-learning-play-musical-instrument-lockdown https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/five-tips-learning-play-musica... Studies have shown that taking up an instrument does have excellent mental health benefits: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6368928/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6368928/ https://consequence.net/2020/07/musical-instrument-mental-health-study/ https://consequence.net/2020/07/musical-instrument-mental-he...

servytor 5y ago

I discovered Kudzu[0] and alcoholism a while ago and hope it might help somebody here or their friend or loved one. Kudzu apparently is an amazing drug for helping people quit drinking. I hope if anybody here has trouble, or knows someone with trouble, they try introducing it to them if it makes sense to them. Here is a BBC article[1], but they only did 500mg instead of 2g. Apparently it works by helping you feel drunk faster, speeding up the time delay effect and thus making you not want to drink as much. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4510012/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4510012/ [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35381041 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35381041

after_care 5y ago
From the nih link > Drinking was recorded using a custom built end table that contained a digital scale beneath a ceramic tile insert in the tabletop (Ohaus model #B10P with I5S controller). Participants were instructed to always keep the beer glass on the table except when taking a sip. The scale was connected to a computer in an adjacent room that ran a customized program that sampled the scale at 5 Hz and detected any weight changes that exceeded 1 gm. This rapid sampling of the weight permitted a real time assessment of drinking topography that included gross measures of volume and number of beers consumed but also provided details on a more micro level and included the number and size of sips taken, latency to opening a beer, and consumption time of each beer. Additional details and photos of the device can be found in Lukas et al. (2005). Breath alcohol levels were assessed using an Alco-Sensor FST breathalyzer (Intoximeter, Inc., St. Louis, MO) both before and after the drinking session; values were not collected during the active alcohol acquisition period to avoid interacting with the participant and allowing natural drinking patterns to emerge. I would buy this product for my desk to measure water and coffee intact. Bonus points if it could detect the type of drink automatically based on some measured physical property. It might work well as a cup/bottle instead of a coaster.

adamrezich 5y ago

crazy how absolutely nobody saw nth-order effects coming

barbazoo 5y ago
I'm trying not to armchair quarterback so I'm asking, what would you have done differently? Aren't there obvious priorities here that need to be dealt with and a deep analysis about potential pandemic responses and their n-th order effects would have been even more detrimental?
- adamrezich 5y ago
  I don't think it's too outlandish to have taken a look at the measures taken as they were being proposed and then taken and say to oneself, "this is going to have nth-order effects, many of which are easily predictable, and we should weigh these accordingly." instead, anyone who approached things from this perspective was shouted down, told they were participating in killing people, etc. etc. these nth-order effects range from personal (alcohol-related deaths, children socializing/learning to read faces poorly, effects on education, effects on mental health) to economic (independent stores closing while big box stores flourish). all of these things and many more were dismissed at the time in favor of taking radical actions which have yet to be proven to be effective. (but they had to be effective, because if we didn't take those actions, things would be worse now, right?)
spookthesunset 5y ago
I was yelled at by some people I know quite well when I pointed this stuff out. Only covid mattered to these people. Even when we knew it wasn't nearly as bad as the original models predicted society doubled down on the nonsense.

vmception 5y ago

What's the latest research on the causes of these predispositions to addiction? Any gut bacteria link? Any gene that can be suppressed?

asdfjlkjt43tl 5y ago

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asdfjlkjt43tl 5y ago

AlwaysRock 5y ago

I drank so much during the first few months of the pandemic that I had to give up drinking altogether. The hangovers and mood swings from drinking regularly were too much and just not worth it for me. I love booze but I didnt drink until I was in my mid 20's so it was easyish for me to stop. I imagine a lot of people were on the edge of very dangerous drinking habits and this pushed them over the edge.

KuhlMensch 5y ago

Over pandemic I lernt: - I love getting pissed at the pub - I hate getting pissed at home doing nothing - I love the taste of non-alcoholic beer

imranq 5y ago

Cultural acceptance of alcohol use is a strong confounding factor. It should be be in the same category as marijuana, smoking, and other harmful substances