25 ms·
PlayDate Fulfillment Delayed
- Ecco 5y agoDoes anyone know which exact CPU they were using and which one they’re switching to?
- encryptluks2 5y agoYou would think in that long interaction they could have provided some actual details, yet they spend so much space repeating themselves and acting like their customers are small children.
- zalenka 5y agoIt's a 32bit ARM CPU running around 200mhz I think. I'm sure they just used a similar ARM CPU.
- whermans 5y agoSTM32F7 with a Cortex M7. I don't think they've announced what they are moving to, except that it's a variant with better availability.
- ngngngng 5y agoSeems like everyone's pretty understanding, although I haven't checked twitter yet. The Playdate discord is nothing but supportive of the team over at Panic. The worst part to me is knowing that they had 5000 completed units, and without the battery issue, mine would probably be at my door already by now since I was one of the first orders.
- Le_Dook 5y agoI think the support has a lot to do with just how transparent Panic have been about the entire process. You can see a lot of people being able to emphasize with the human element behind the product and the company.
- hrrsn 5y agoI've always been impressed with Panic's level of communication. Many companies could learn a thing or two from them!
- encryptluks2 5y agoFrom their blog they literally talk to people like they are little clueless kids. If that is how people like their interactions. I personally find it semi-annoying and mildly offensive.
- hrrsn 5y agoThey write in a colloquial, friendly style and use language that is easily understood by people that exist outside of the HN echo chamber.
- jrockway 5y agoThis is targeted at the HN echo chamber, though. A Nintendo Switch costs less and plays AAA games. This is an STM32 with a black-and-white low rez screen and a hand crank. You could build one yourself for $50. (https://www.adafruit.com/product/3160 https://www.adafruit.com/product/3160 but that has a color screen.) Ordinary people that want to play video games are not going to buy this. I know this verbatim sounds like "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame." or "you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem", both famously wrong assessments of hit products. But in this case, it's different -- the masses already have video games. If you want to make a 320x200 black-and-white game, fire up your editor, open up an OpenGL canvas at that resolution, and start coding. You can have your game available to billions of users tomorrow morning. They could easily say "we switched from the STM32F4 series to RP2040s because there is actual availability right now" and not alienate a single potential customer.
- striking 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- urda 5y agoI would rather them take the time to get this right, than potentially launch new hardware that flops and slaps them in the face.
- rjzzleep 5y agoWhen I see this kind of stuff I find them fascinating, because it's always the same story. People building a hardware product and then realizing that building hardware, even when it looks simple has a lot of moving parts. Coming back from that is quite impressive. But when people boast about their amazing products to reek in VC money I actually get upset. I'm not sure if I'm more upset at the founders or the VCs though. For example recently they have been raving about oxide, how amazing it is, how amazing the founder is, how amazing the idea is. But if you look at the website with all the ambitious goals and an estimate of early 2022[1] I can already see this company burning money like no other without ever getting close to that estimate. Either they have zero clue about supply chain or their wilfully misleading investors or a little bit of both. But I guess that's the world we live in. [1] https://oxide.computer/ https://oxide.computer/
- shp0ngle 5y agoPlaydate does not seem like VC funded? Panic is existing Mac software company, that sold (arguably, niche) software at not-that-small prices (well, usual for Mac OS ecosystem, at least in 2000s/2010s), and had a modest success being a distributor of Untitled Goose Game; and PlayDate is made in relatively small numbers; I would think they are self-funded and not backed by VCs.
- Krustopolis 5y agoAnd Firewatch!
- rjzzleep 5y agoClearly I talked about two opposite directions. The first paragraph is about panic. The rest is about the companies that don't act like panic. Why lump it together?
- fra 5y agoPeople will link back to this comment in two years to point out how wrong / mean spirited HN can be sometimes.
- ehsankia 5y agoIt maybe helped that Steam Deck, Play Date and Analogue Pocket all announced their delays recently. Goes to show that this is beyond any single company and everyone's affected equally.
- sam0x17 5y agoYeah the supply chain breakdown study that was posted last week (sorry couldn't find link) points to the fact that demand across the board in almost all industries is quite a bit higher than it was pre-pandemic. Confusingly, supply is also higher across the board compared to pre-pandemic numbers, it's just that demand is so much higher than it was, that the increased supply is still woefully insufficient.
- dpedu 5y agoWhat a shame. Such a niche and cute and nostalgic little project will probably be dealt a deathblow because of this. I have no doubt Panic will find a way to move forward but it's going to take time. And that kind of delay is so much more hurtful to niche projects.
- flatiron 5y agothe weird thing about these products if they seem to go two ways. one is "what a cool quirky company, they always do stuff like this, i like their quirkyness i wonder what they will do next" or "what fever dream did they have that they could put together a gameboy clone? they don't know the market. haven't they seen what happened to the lynx and neo geo pocket and the wonderswan and even the vita? its like invading russia in the winter, you don't make a handheld system in the age of cellphones"
- rimher 5y agoTbh I was 100% expecting it with all the shortages and chip crunched. Hardware is hard, no way around it If anything, I appreciate the transparency
- encryptluks2 5y agoEverything is COVID-19's fault. Long hold times.. COVID-19. Terrible customer service... COVID-19. The reason we lied to you... COVID-19. Get assaulted by an angry fast food worker... COVID-19. It is like the free excuse for almost any business.
- stnmtn 5y agoTo ignore the impact that Covid had on almost all aspects of our society seems like a bad idea
- encryptluks2 5y agoFor businesses to use it as an excuse for practically anything, for example in this case they provided very little actual details but a lot of fluff and this is because you know the supply chain issues with COVID. They literally could have over promised and under-delivered, never securing any contract in advance for manufacturing, but instead now they get a free pass because of COVID. That is all you have the say anymore as a business and you can keep on using it no matter the actual circumstances.
- frosted-flakes 5y agoYou don't have to be so salty, you know. You can cancel your order and get your money back.
- ashtonbaker 5y ago> very little actual details Either we read different posts here or have wildly different expectations - I was completely satisfied with the level of detail. > now they get a free pass because of COVID Who is giving them a free pass? Do you have a pre-order? Cancel it if you don't like the news.
- stnmtn 5y agoWhat's an example of more detail that they could have given? They gave plenty IMO but I'm curious if you can think of any extra detail because it sounds like you think they gave none
- andrethegiant 5y agoAs a pre-order customer, I don't mind the delay. I'm glad they're doing it right instead of rushing to meet a deadline.
- colesantiago 5y agoSuch a shame, I'll put the xmas wrapping away for this one.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- brink 5y agoBattery issues are so common. I ordered an electric unicycle last spring that came with dud batteries, now I have to pay $150 in shipping to get it fixed.
- joezydeco 5y agoIt's like the whole world needs STM32F7 parts and nobody can get them. What a pain in the ass.
- klaussilveira 5y agoYou might have more luck on marketplaces: https://www.sourcengine.com/search?q=STM32F7 https://www.sourcengine.com/search?q=STM32F7
- LeoPanthera 5y agoThe same thing happened to the Steam Deck so it's not really a surprise at this point.
- xd1936 5y agoI'll have a Blue... Christmas... without you...
- stuart78 5y agoBut you'll have a very happy Christmas 2022!
- nodejs_rulez_1 5y agoInteresting, that one cannot delay a (pre-)payment (except as a credit) yet the goods can be delayed randomly. Seems like some asymmetry there.
- sascha_sl 5y agoThe reservation fee for the Steam Deck was 1€, at least for me.
- post_break 5y agoI honestly still don't understand the hype around this thing. To me it's up there with Tiger electronic games, but for a lot more.
- mbreese 5y agoThe story is less about the device, and more about the chip shortage. Having to wait two years for a CPU is just crazy, and it’s interesting to watch the hoops that these companies have to go through in order to ship products. I don’t know anything about the device itself, but do you find it interesting to watch how do chip shortage is affecting different manufacturers.
- dbreunig 5y agoPanic has a history of delivering thoughtful, well-made software. Their initial foray into games (Firewatch, Untitled Goose Game, Nour) were all excellent and novel. Combine that with Teenage Engineering's similar novel and excellent track record with hardware design and you've got a very interesting product to those that like Panic's software and/or like good hardware design. If nothing else this product will be novel and well considered. If that's not your cup of tea, cool. But there's a lot here for several communities.
- tpush 5y ago> Their initial foray into games (Firewatch, Untitled Goose Game, Nour) were all excellent and novel. Note that Panic hasn't developed any of those games; they published them.
- JohnBooty 5y agoRight. True. Continuing that trend, nearly all of PlayDate's announced games are also externally developed and (obviously) published by Panic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playdate_(console)#Games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playdate_(console)#Games
- amelius 5y agoThey could release just the software then, which would run fine on Android and iOS machines (which by the way offer way more value for people who appreciate good hardware and good software) Who needs more e-waste?
- mfer 5y agoWhat I find interesting is the things you can't get chips for vs the things that are shipping without issue that use chips. Look at what's happened to the auto industry. Cars, which most of the time have a need rather than being a toy or not needed, have issues with chips. But, IoT devices that are monitoring us to phone home with surveillance on us see to not have a problem. I'm sure I'm missing something. Am I wrong?
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y agoNope, they're having trouble too. I was on the phone with an embedded cellular modem module manufacturer earlier this year. The part we spec'd was unavailable because the underlying modem device was on allocation for so long that the module manufacturer decided to just discontinue the device rather than say it would be out of stock for two years.
- Klonoar 5y agoAutomakers are notoriously looking for years-old chips because they don't update their products the same way. I believe that stock is just dead, more or less.
- CamperBob2 5y agoDirty little secret: none of the leading-edge sub-10nm parts are of any use whatsoever without peripheral, power management, and analog parts built on those "dead" processes.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y agoMaybe IoT garbage can ship with just about any chip that will run Linux, while cars need specifically certified components?
- MisterTea 5y agoNot only certified (e.g. ASIL*) but long term availability. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_Safety_Integrity_Level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_Safety_Integrity_Le...
- paxys 5y agoIt's a bad time to be a non-top tier hardware manufacturer. I'm sure Apple, Samsung and the like are having supply trouble as well, but they have the scale, connections and money to handle it. Smaller companies are getting demolished.
- bluesquared 5y agoIt is quite frustrating. I'm a medical device hardware engineer, so our quantities are in the low 1000s per year for our highest-running SKUs. Just today had to deal with a panicked contract manufacturer who was going to bring our line down for an oscillator and a capacitor that they were shorted. Distributors will tell you they're sending a reel of 1000 parts or whatever, but you open the box and they just threw in 30. Every other week it's another *drop your NPD responsibilities and come up with a solution to this shortage so we don't stop our assembly lines* which is quite frustrating to keeping "on schedule" and "in a flow state"... If it's not in *your* warehouse or allocated to you in *your* contract manufacturer's warehouse, it doesn't exist.
- jareklupinski 5y agoi've started modularizing my designs again 10 years ago it was pretty common to design small submodules and stitch them together into a final assembly, that would get upgraded piece-meal as tech/product needs evolved about 2-3 years ago it became more economical to just design an entire bespoke board for any new project, and then run an entirely new board for any subsequent changes. i loved not dealing with interconnects anymore but now I'm back to reusable modules and sub-assemblies again, because by the time i'm finished designing an entire board, a single part will be out of stock and i'd have to start from scratch :(
- riskable 5y agoYeah but what are you doing about connectors to join the boards together? There's serious shortages of things like JST connectors right now just like chips.
- jareklupinski 5y ago
- Chris2048 5y agoSo.. the crank doesn't charge the battery?
- frosted-flakes 5y agoOf course not. The crank is an input device, like a joystick.
- Chris2048 5y agoYou say that, but I've never seen an input wheel as a crank; And it isn't obvious to me how it helps fine control (ala a game control / mouse wheel-like input) since I'd associate crank-like features with benefiting power i.e. turning something with high torque more easily. Incidentally, people are so offended by the suggestion I immediately received surprise downvotes. Who knew it was such a controversy.
- rasz 5y agoCrank is a gimmick, why else would anyone want to pay $200 for ~$30 pay as you go phone specs hardware in 2021?
- polishdude20 5y agoWould have been cool if it was an input AND charged the battery.
- kube-system 5y ago.
- exolymph 5y agoHardware be that way under the best of circumstances, and 2021 certainly isn't the best of circumstances for physical fulfillment. So it makes sense.
- diebeforei485 5y agoChip shortages are real, but shipping capacity is also very tight at the moment. Peak Design had some issues[1] with shipping their phone accessories (tripod, bike mount, etc) because of the shipping capacity crunch. Apparently large electronics companies like Apple have booked out most of the air freight capacity. 1. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/peak-design/mobile-by-peak-design-phone-cases-mounts-chargers-magsafe/posts/3345073 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/peak-design/mobile-by-p...
- TaylorAlexander 5y agoI was really surprised when I found out that the 5 pin JST XH connectors I need are out of stock seemingly worldwide. It’s just metal pins and a plastic housing. I looked at stock levels of alternatives and it looks like Molex is the winner. Hundreds of thousands of their similar connector in stock at Digi-Key. My hope is that these supply shocks will teach people to better prepare for this kind of thing in the future, leading to more robust supply chains.
- mypalmike 5y agoThe reason is that it's demand shock more than supply shock. Electronic equipment supply is reported to have largely recovered and is above pre pandemic levels. But demand from backlog and increased consumption has outstripped supply. So it's not just microcontrollers that are in higher demand, it's everything.
- riskable 5y agoYeah seriously: Why are JST connectors so scarce all the sudden? They're literally just some metal and plastic (Polycarbonate?). Unless there's a shortage of metal wire (cuz that's all it is; pressed into a squareish shape) or plastic why would the world be running out of JST XH (and other JST) connectors? Are there serious bare wire and/or plastic shortages right now? I've read about price increases but not shortages.
- aemreunal 5y agoMy completely uninformed, wild guess: the manufacturing plants capable of creating those are creating other wires that are more in demand / profitable for them, rather than these cheap ones.
- z33k 5y agoHere at Big Electrical Equipment Manufacturer we are currently dealing with a cable shortage. 3 years ago, if I would have told the people working here that someday we would have a cable shortage, I would have been laughed out of the room.
- 5y ago
- laydn 5y agoThe lead times for the STM microcontrollers have gone way beyond unreasonable. "730 days" I think is a polite way of saying "we may never supply you with this chip". I may be way off here but my observation is that chips that are very configurable are the hardest to purchase. For example, the STM32 series have something like ~3000 SKUs ( https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/embedded-microcontrollers/685?s=N4IgTCBcDaIM4BcC2BmCBdAvkA https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/embedded-microcon... ). Normally, this allows every designer to pick the most suitable part and have the lowest total BoM cost. However, in today's challenging supply/demand environment, the total number of unique parts that must be manufactured must be causing a huge problem.
- twarge 5y agoSTM32H7 is the upgrade path, but it doesn't seem to be any more available.
- Inviz 5y agoI bought one from their site.
- thrtythreeforty 5y agoThe part number explosion may not be as bad as you think: ST very likely does some relabeling/fuse programming of the same die to make multiple part numbers. As the most classic example, the STM32F103C8 promises 64KB of flash, and the F103CB (note CB vs C8) has 128KB. But it turns out that some of the 64KB actually have 128KB [1], and they've just been fused to report the smaller part number. [1]: https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/stm32f1xx-diagnostics.html https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/stm32f1xx-d...
- janekm 5y agoTrue, and then every variant in every package version. But it does cause problems in the current climate as each of those variants do have to make it through the production pipeline (after die fab) which is also constrained at the moment. And of course ST is prioritising "high value customers" (like car manufacturers).
- dang 5y agoThere's also this article: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/11/playdate-delays-to-2022-amid-scramble-to-revise-the-entire-handheld-console/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/11/playdate-delays-to-20... (via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29191933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29191933, but we merged that thread hither)
- amelius 5y agoAt least tell us what CPU you are using!
- huhtenberg 5y ago180 MHz ARM Cortex M7F https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Playdate https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Playdate
- amelius 5y agoThanks. Any idea what CPU will they be moving to?
- frosted-flakes 5y agoThey haven't released that info yet.
- moralestapia 5y agoYeah whatever, Every single software company that jumps hardware finds out in a sour way how completely different the two worlds are.
- SllX 5y agoDisappointing but happy they finally issued an update on the situation detailing how they’re prioritizing QA over on-time delivery. I’ve been checking religiously for signs of a shipment.
- mleonhard 5y agoHow about naming and shaming the dishonest battery supplier?
- superflit2 5y agoIt was only that read the title and thoght “Yep that is my life?”
- DantesKite 5y agoVery cool. I hope more video game hardware appears (like the Steam Deck). It really opens up a lot more options for developers and a new paradigm for playing games. I don't think the crank is going to be anything ground-breaking, but I like the idea of designing new controllers. It's cool.
- 999900000999 5y agoI saw the same thing with Steam Deck. I don't really care since they haven't took my money yet. I'm actually happy with this since I just brought too many toys recently. Gives me a bit more time to save
- footlose_3815 5y agoJoke's on them. Once I saw it was extremely uninteresting I got a refund.
- busymom0 5y agoAs someone who never plays games, I kinda want this simply because of how cute it looks.
- Doxin 5y agoDid you see the dock the plan on releasing? makes the thing look like a tiny little CRT when docked. Very cute indeed.
- sam0x17 5y agoIs it bad that their transparency about the aspects affecting the delay made me want to order?
- isitdopamine 5y ago> we found a number of units with batteries so drained, Playdate wouldn’t power on at all — and couldn’t be charged Wait, wait, wait… Are they saying that if the battery is too drained the device will not charge? It that’s the case, it’s a terrible design decision! Also, isn’t the + shaped control a Nintendo patent?
- philistine 5y agoOh hey no one answered your query about the patent on the D-pad; that patent is long expired. (https://patents.google.com/patent/US4687200A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US4687200A/en)
- notRobot 5y agoFirstly, it wasn't a design "decision". It was an unplanned, unexpected thing. Secondly, did you even read past that paragraph? They got a new supplier and replaced the batteries with better ones in every device.
- isitdopamine 5y agoYou didn’t understand my comment. Their write up seems to imply that the device wouldn’t charge if the battery is completely drained. It happens sometimes in cheap devices in which the charging logic is managed in software, but it’s a terrible design decision. If that’s the case, a better battery will mitigate the problem but the terrible design remains!
- cube00 5y agoI was surprised that a device could drain to the point where it could never be charged again, thanks for the possible explanation.
- avian 5y ago> It happens sometimes in cheap devices in which the charging logic is managed in software, but it’s a terrible design decision. In my experience, this is a pretty common practice, not limited to cheap devices. Many modern battery-driven devices I've looked at closely (for example: e-book readers, smartphones, ...) cannot bootstrap from a completely dead battery. They have to bring up the CPU, which then brings up the PMIC, before it can start charging the battery. The difference between well-designed and less well-designed devices is mostly in how well they protect the battery from discharging beyond the point where this minimal bootstrap process stops working.
- bilekas 5y agoOn their website.. > The Crank. Yes, the crank. Is it a gimmick? Nah. Does it charge Playdate's battery? Nope. I guess they could revisit that eh ?