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The Overview Effect – William Shatner's Words After Returning from Space
- evo_9 5y ago"And then suddenly you shoot up through it all of the sudden… as if you whip off the sheet off you when you are asleep.. And you’re looking into blackness. Into BLACK UGLINESS… And you look down and there’s the blue down there… and the black up there and it’s… it’s just… there is Mother Earth… and comfort… and there is ….is there death? I don’t know! Is that death?" - Shatner
- beepbooptheory 5y agoYes but instead of the laughable fantasy of a communist society developing technology that allows them to join an intergalactic federation of like minded beings, we have something much better/realistic: a few wealthy individuals investing their capital towards discrete goals that involve space exploration.
- cwkoss 5y agoJeff Bezos seems like such a shallow greedy douchebag. Hard to think of a person this world would be better off without.
- JoeAltmaier 5y agoIt's important for space travel to have spokespersons like William Shatner. He's expressive and genuine. He's an actor of course, but how much is that and how much is personal is beside the point. He can do more to promote the 'hearts and minds' of the world than any number of oligarchs.
- grkvlt 5y agoi found richard branson's reaction to his space flight experience interesting too - the man is usually very polished and is the poster child for sound bitey pr, but the post landing interview showed him almost babbling incoheretly - it was obvious he had had an incredible and hard to define or articulate experience.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoThis man had a profound psychedelic experience.
- lostmsu 5y agoNo, this man had a profound genuine experience.
- xqcgrek2 5y agoNo, the man can act and sell a $100,000/hour joy ride.
- eurasiantiger 5y agopsychedelic (adj.) occasionally psychodelic, "producing expanded consciousness through heightened awareness and feeling," 1956, of drugs, suggested by British-born Canadian psychiatrist Humphry Osmond in a letter to Aldous Huxley and used by Osmond in a scientific paper published the next year; from Greek psykhē "mind" (see psyche) + dēloun "make visible, reveal" (from dēlos "visible, clear," from PIE root *dyeu- "to shine").
- lostmsu 5y agoIf you are trying to argue definition, the quote you provided is very unclear. It looks like a mish-mash of multiple sources.
- deadbolt 5y agoThis reminds me of a speech by the astronaut Russell Schweikart, which was partially featured (and where I first learned of it) in the video game The Witness. The audio and transcript can be found here: https://www.organism.earth/library/document/no-frames-no-boundaries https://www.organism.earth/library/document/no-frames-no-bou...
- davidw 5y agoHis words are pretty moving, but it's a jarring contrast with the... uh, 'influencer' vibe I get from the people hanging out with them.
- handrous 5y agoYeah, Bezos struggling to keep his attention on Shatner's apparently-sincere attempt to express his feelings about the experience, because he was distracted by all the celebration crap around and didn't actually seem to be trying that hard to be present with Shatner, was really gross. I believe the kids call it "cringe", and this video had so much of it I had to turn it off.
- ryandrake 5y agoThe clip [1] was kind of gross. Shatner is standing there, trying to make a thoughtful, serious, genuine statement about his feelings, and Bezos is repeatedly turning his head away, looking at everything else, like a kid distracted by an iPad. The champaign popping and the women in the big sunglasses yelling "wooooooo" like they're at a dance club was just icing on the cake. Finally, after all the horseplay was done, he turned back and gave the guy a chance to articulate. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSNXBvpLb9o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSNXBvpLb9o
- WWLink 5y agowow it sounds bad, but then you watch it and it's even worse lol. Poor Shatner.
- Rapzid 5y agoHow did you feel about the bit after the champagne when Jeff was giving Bill his undivided attention?
- grkvlt 5y agoto me, it seems like bezos did exactly the right thing. he got the champagne out the way, then listened to what shatner had to say. and then, when shatner got overwhelmed by emotions, bezos took off his sunglasses and hugged shatner, which was a really touching moment. it's really hard to listen to someone monologuing and not interrupt or distract them, probably more so if you're like bezos and used to being the centre of attention, but he does it and let's shatner have his say. good for both of them!
- wonderwonder 5y agoMight just be me, but Shatner is attempting to communicate something profound that has altered him and Bezos just seems to want to party. Might just be different world views, Shatner is much older and has less time.
- UseStrict 5y agoFor Shatner it seemed like he had a profound life-enhancing experience. For everyone else it looked like they were celebrating after some sort of extreme sport, or a roller coaster. It's hard to judge just by outward appearances, and the adrenalin rush must be intense, but no one else, even Bezos, seemed to really appreciate the enormity of the experience.
- davidw 5y agoTowards the end of the clip, Bezos looks like he's calculating how much William Shatner Space Merchandise he could sell with this great video they're getting of a profoundly moved man.
- solarkraft 5y ago“Man, this will be such good PR”
- nefitty 5y ago"Hug me! The cameras are pointed at us!"
- stuart78 5y agoI thought that when he interrupted for champagne showers, but after that he seems more present in the conversation and really listening. I have to say that listening to Shatner's description made me more intrigued than the other stories I've heard from the recent visitors. His emotion, the voice, the particular idea he is trying to express of that change in perspective really captured the intensity of the experience in a way that made me want to know it as well.
- Ericson2314 5y agoI didn't see a lot of OG Star Trek, but I do feel like Boston Legal Shatner would have just this reaction.
- ztetranz 5y agoExcept that all he would have said was: Denny Crane!
- Ericson2314 5y agoThis is, like, an extra big fishing trip. He recovered his vocabulary on those IIRC.
- aynyc 5y agoSay again!
- _Microft 5y agoShatner was clearly overwhelmed as you can see from the transcript and had trouble to put the experience to words already. The one thing that I noticed was how ironic I thought it was that Shatner described the vast blackness of space as death and Earth as life. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly true but just not what I would expect from Captain Kirk who would call that a great adventure instead, most likely.
- bsder 5y agoScale is very hard for a human to grasp non-experentially. You can view all the pictures in the world, but when you actually see the Grand Canyon in person, the scale hits you. This thing occupies the entirety of my visual field. I imagine this is the same thing, but bigger and starker. A deep, dark black that is vast absence in the entirety of your visual field interrupted only by a bright blue globe.
- em-bee 5y agosame goes for the great wall of china. you can't really appreciate its dimensions until you have walked on it.
- mmmBacon 5y agoIt reminds me of a line from Flash Gordon when Emperor Ming says Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror.
- inanutshellus 5y agoIt was jarring and a bit ironic* to hear William Shatner call space "black ugliness" and the embodiment of "death", for sure. That said, I know we all get his meaning. This tiny blue dot, our collective "blue origin" (har), for humanity is life, livelihood... everything. And it's so fragile and insignificant against the immensity of the universe. I wish all world leaders could have such an epiphany as he clearly had. * Notably, Shatner is familiar to us as the confidently-space-faring Captain Kirk, a character that brought to the world the idea that space travel is the mundane, normal, expected next step for humanity.
- spaceflower 5y agoExperiencing this is on my bucket list, along with creating another life.
- inanutshellus 5y agoBecause it's not in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect > The overview effect is a cognitive shift in awareness reported by some astronauts during spaceflight, often while viewing the Earth from outer space
- wly_cdgr 5y agoGiven the visceral intensity of this effect, it seems like the best hope for world peace or at least the continued survival of the human race is to send as many people into space as possible as soon as possible, starting with world leaders
- 09bjb 5y agoOr, you know, legalize the hundreds of psychedelic plants that grow like weeds all over the world that have the same effect at an imperceptibly small fraction of the economic and environmental cost... Anecdote featuring both: https://boingboing.net/2019/04/08/stewart-brand-talks-about-the.html https://boingboing.net/2019/04/08/stewart-brand-talks-about-... (Stewart Brand founded the Long Now Foundation)
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoAlong with the telephone sanitizers.
- poetaster 5y ago
- ToJoh 5y agoBummer that it meant releasing a massive cloud of planet-heating greenhouse gas into the atmosphere of this little blue dot.
- ceejayoz 5y agohttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/28/fact-check-jeff-bezos-new-shepard-rocket-launch-didnt-emit-carbon/8073047002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/28/fac... > The New Shepard uses a rocket engine, called Blue Engine 3, that runs on fuel combining liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. When these elements react with each other, they generate a tremendous amount of heat and the propulsive force to get the rocket off the ground. > Since there's no carbon contained in the fuel, no carbon dioxide is emitted during the launch or into the atmosphere, Eloise Marais, an air pollution researcher at the University College London, told USA TODAY via email. > Darin Toohey, an atmospheric scientist at the University of Colorado, Boulder, agreed, telling Live Science that the main emissions from Bezos' rocket would be "water and some minor combustion products, and virtually no CO2."
- robotresearcher 5y ago> no carbon dioxide is emitted during the launch or into the atmosphere It takes a lot of energy to capture that hydrogen and oxygen beforehand. The same energy that the rocket releases, plus losses due to process inefficiencies. Maybe they take pains to use only renewables. If not, they likely emitted plenty of CO2 in advance of the launch.
- roughly 5y agoIt’s worth noting and celebrating when we can do something like power a rocket without having carbon emissions intrinsic to that process. It’s the same argument against electric cars - “oh, well the electricity might be made in a coal plant!” Sure, but we know how to solve _that_ problem, it’s this _other_ one we’ve been trying to figure out.
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
- JanSolo 5y agoI expect that it meant a lot to Shatner. That man has spent a significant portion of his life imitating a spacefaring version of humanity. For him to finally see reality intersecting with the fiction of his lifes-work must be very satisfying. I completely understand that it was a profound moment for him. The contrast between him and Jeff spraying champagne and squealing with his marketroids was very apparent.
- fierro 5y agoyes, can't believe they squealed and celebrated, they should have solemnly nodded to eachother in respectful silence. Shouldn't have expressed joy, no.
- davidw 5y agoIt didn't even feel real though, to me. It felt like contestants on some reality show (Space Race!) play acting at celebrating. I love to watch bike racing, and have seen plenty of overjoyed people hugging their spouses and friends and everyone after a big win. The joy and other emotions all come pouring out. This didn't feel like that, at least from what I saw. Maybe Bezos and his crew are just that way, but reading through the comments, I'm not the only one who was not really impressed. And for the record, I'm not someone who loathes Bezos or Amazon.
- WalterBright 5y agoI'm not the type that jumps around hugging everyone, either, but that doesn't mean I don't feel joy. I once wangled a ride on a P-51, a lifelong wish of mine. It was only 30 minutes, but I had a smile for the next week.
- lukewrites 5y agoHonest question that I'm sure sounds snarky: Why was Bezos in a flight suit if he wasn't flying?
- handrous 5y ago
- romanhn 5y agoShatner: “It’s so THIN! To… to.. To dirty it… I mean, that’s another whole subject… “ Jeff: “And you shoot through… what you were saying about… you’re shooting through it so fast!” Smooth Jeff, smooth. "so, anyways..."
- _Microft 5y agoI was disappointed how Bezos handled that 'interview'. I understand that Shatner wasn't well articulated in that moment and that it took some effort to follow his thoughts as he still seemed to be in awe ("I hope that I can maintain what I feel now…") but Bezos' reaction was really shallow and he did not seem to be genuinely interested.
- scoot 5y agoI'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed Jeff steering the discussion away from environmental concerns. It seemed more blatant than smooth though.
- intrepidhero 5y agoGrowing up watching Star Trek, I experienced a shift in thinking. It imparted this idea that humanity's real home was among the stars and one day earth might be only a small part of human civilization. That we are capable of so much more. It was a beautiful, mind expanding idea. I'm glad that Mr Shatner could have this profound experience. It sounds like he got to experience some of the same wonder and beauty that he portrayed through Star Trek, only aimed back at our home. There's a kind of circular completeness to it. The earth is so precious and our lives so tenuous, we must strive to do better, to be better. The "ugly blackness" is terribly hostile and the "thin sheet" is all that stands between us and death.
- xqcgrek2 5y agoShatner is an actor, and for the first time in my life, I think he might be a good actor.
- musesum 5y agoCannot understate how influential the OG Star Trek was for me. Never saw Shatner in anything else (was too busy reading Clark, Heinlein, Dick, et al). So, he is still Captain Kirk, to me. His words are profoundly moving.
- gorkish 5y agoMy favorite treatment of this subject comes from the film Contact, which manages with these six words: Eleanor: "They should have sent a poet."
- thm76 5y agoI never really had an opinion about Jeff Bezos, but after seeing this video and how he's interrupting Shatner to spray some champagne - man, I can't say I like Jeff a single bit.
- xqcgrek2 5y agoA novice mistake. Never interrupt your expert employee (an actor) doing what they're good at. Leave it to the experts with lifelong acting experience to effuse on trivialities.
- thepasswordis 5y agoNot only to spray some champagne, after he did he just threw the bottle on the ground.
- worrycue 5y agoHis people are celebrating a successful and safe launch and recovery. It would be weird as their boss to not partake at least a little wouldn’t you say?
- Applejinx 5y agoThey should have sent a poet
- DonHopkins 5y agoSpot on! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SySZdvsFYt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SySZdvsFYt4
- egberts1 5y agoSpace, … the final frontier …
- aronpye 5y ago“ They used to say if man could fly, he'd have wings. But he did fly. He discovered he had to. Do you wish that the first Apollo mission hadn't reached the moon, or that we hadn't gone on to Mars and then to the nearest star? That's like saying you wish that you still operated with scalpels and sewed your patients up with catgut like your great-great-great-great-grandfather used to. I'm in command. I could order this. But I'm not because, Doctor McCoy is right in pointing out the enormous danger potential in any contact with life and intelligence as fantastically advanced as this. But I must point out that the possibilities, the potential for knowledge and advancement is equally great. Risk. Risk is our business. That's what the starship is all about. That's why we're aboard her. You may dissent without prejudice. Do I hear a negative vote?” - Captain James T Kirk
- dogman144 5y agoShatner's comments really saved this as A Moment and should be all over commercial space's (and the overall space program's) marketing as the face of the So What. The theme of folks self-congratulating themselves on another example of their exceptionalism is all over these events. It's a very long way from test pilots in the Air Force in the 50's, "The Right Stuff," and JFK's mission. This is a cynical take and rich or poor, going into space is going into space. An intense act, and who knows how I'd respond. But the contrast in this video showed that theme a bit - champaign showering and other "correct" reactions, Bezos rocking an astronaut uniform for some reason, while Shatner is just standing there speechless. Glad The Moment landed with him.
- csours 5y agoI think all national level politicians should be sent into orbit, and we only let them come back down when they understand and promise to play nice.
- NikolaeVarius 5y agoI loved that in Seveneves, there was a world treaty that no politician could be part of the Ark
- TMWNN 5y ago... which the Hillary Clinton-expy US president promptly violates.
- WalterBright 5y ago"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would have hidden from it in terror."
- aidenn0 5y agoI haven't seen that in ages...
- WalterBright 5y agoIt even looks like Flash Gordon's rocket!
- Karellen 5y agoZarkov's rocket. Credit where it's due, please! :-)
- WalterBright 5y agoMusk needs to build war rocket 'Ajax'.
- KineticLensman 5y agoAnd then launch Brian Blessed, who no doubt will have a few quiet words after his mission.
- WalterBright 5y ago"That must be one hell of a planet you men come from!"
- UncleOxidant 5y agoAs an aside: I know the thin grey fonts are trendy, but please have some consideration for those whose eyesight isn't as good as yours.
- MarkusWandel 5y agoI'm never certain whether I'm just imagining this, but you look out the window of an airplane at 30,000+ feet, and the sky isn't as blue as it is at ground level. And even standing on top of the kind of mountain an average person can climb - I made it to the crater plateau, but not the summit of Kilimanjaro (altitude issues) - and realizing that every breath you take has only half as much air in it as you're used to - makes you realize just how thin this atmosphere is.
- HighPlainsDrftr 5y agoI think scientists really do a terrible job of explaining that. When you look out the window, it appears the atmosphere goes on forever. Why not burn coal, let cars exhaust, and generally treat the atmosphere like a cheap sewer? In reality, the more I've thought about this, the more appalled I become. Many people have issues at 10k feet elevation. The FAA starts having different o2 requirements at 10k feet. 12k elevation gets very challenging to climb. Yet I'll drive 12k feet to go to the grocery store and never thing twice about it.
- UncleOxidant 5y agoShatner having an existential moment and Bezos sprays Champagne around.
- gorgoiler 5y agoOh wow, hearing Bill’s description of space as death is profound. Other worlds are out there, but the blank space between us and them is true nothingness. To experience it must be horrifying.
- gfodor 5y agoI have not been to space, but imagining the blank, clean matter-of-factness of it, the sterility of it, the emptiness of it, and understanding that is what the incomprehensible vastness of the universe "is" except for the rounding error of matter, is a strange and scary thought. I have talked to someone who has travelled to the ISS before and they mentioned the most strange part of it was seeing the ISS in pure sunlight, as if it were just an object sitting under stage lighting in complete, context-less darkness. I'd imagine it's surreal to be present in the visual and auditory silence of space, knowing the dead nothingness hides the extreme danger of what would come if one were simply put into it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hunterb123 5y agoReturning from "Space".
- 74d-fe6-2c6 5y ago"and I opened up my eyes and I gazed out for the very first time at the Earth from space and [...] if I had to pick one word to describe what I was feeling at that moment it would be really just ... meh" :D Astronaut Garrett Reisman Was Disappointed the First Time He Saw Earth from Space | Joe Rogan https://youtu.be/vSXi9PTh96w?t=80 https://youtu.be/vSXi9PTh96w?t=80
- Vrondi 5y agoMy respect for William Shatner is only increased by his words and reaction. Meantime, my respect for Bezos is only lessened by his.
- rpmisms 5y agoWatching this live, my thought process was "Wow, Jeff has no soul, and Shatner just had a good talk with his own." Very interesting to see an old man's reaction to space, though. I can't imagine topping off a good life with that experience.
- bitwize 5y agoShatner being so awestruck reminded me of two fictional space voyages. The first being Major Tom in the Bowie song "Space Oddity"... the second being, in Wings of Honneamise, the main character and first spacefaring human of his world, sitting silently in his orbiter, calling out on his radio unsure if anyone is listening, and offering a prayer to a deity he doesn't really believe exists, because of how small he perceived himself and his planet's politics to be, compared to the sheer terrible absoluteness of all that is "out there". I guess these were inspired by astronaut reactions after their first voyages back in the day. Space just... does things to people. Puts things in perspective, I guess?
- 1970-01-01 5y agoGood to see that Mr. Robert Wilson has finally recovered from his fear of flying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare_at_20,000_Feet# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare_at_20,000_Feet#
- fullshark 5y agoIt's just so moving to see genuine emotion in these marketing efforts, which are usually glossy and phony. Add to that the extratextual stuff involving Star Trek, Shatner's age, and the years of performances we've seen him in this is the best advertisement for space tourism I have ever seen. I don't think I fully understood what Shatner was trying to express but I understood that he was profoundly affected by the experience and it was a joy to watch.