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Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

• teeray 5y ago
  The worst aspect of QR codes as menu replacements is that they are a huge security risk. Who’s to say that QR code is legit? You can’t tell from looking at it. The trouble is compounded by the common practice of restaurants using some third-party service hosted off-site. The domain is no longer a trust signal either. It’s only a matter of time before someone starts snarfing information or credit card numbers this way (scan here to pay your bill).
  • Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    Most of the places I've been to just put their menu on a website linked through QR code, but still take orders and payment through staff. I've been to one place that doesn't do this but only one.
    • bootlooped 5y ago
      But if a malicious QR code led to a website that asked diners to pay for their meal at the point that they ordered it, how many of them would?
      • Dylan16807 5y ago
        Setting up a scam payment processing account for that doesn't seem worth the effort when it's going to be reported for fraud basically immediately.
        • kebman 5y ago
          You'd be surprised.
        • bigiain 5y ago
          "To pay for your 1 x Cheeseburger add egg, please purchase a $10 iTunes gift card and enter the code here: [_______________]"
        • bootlooped 5y ago
          I think you could set up something clever where the QR code redirected to the correct menu 95% of the time, and maybe it didn't charge the credit card initially, and that would last longer than if you had charged something immediately 100% of the time. However, I think your point still stands that it's not worth the trouble and it doesn't scale well.
  • jrnichols 5y ago
    > restaurants using some third-party service hosted off-site. agreed. it's become frustrating. I shouldn't have to make an account with some 3rd party to view specials. Also shouldn't have to look at 2002 style desktop publishing to try to find a menu either. some have been well done. but not nearly enough.
  • wruza 5y ago
    It’s usually just a menu, not e-shoping at the table. Why would they even implement that, if a waiter has to greet you, bring orders and clean up anyway?
    • dabfiend19 5y ago
      ordering and paying through the QR code is now pretty common place in NYC. fewer waiters can attend more tables.
      • Pamar 5y ago
        How does tipping works in those places?
        • Jcowell 5y ago
          The same way other ordering services does it you can either do it through the app or you can always leave cash on the table as always.
    • soylentgraham 5y ago
      Its usually payment whilst ordering via the site/menu. (Uk) Server just brings food/drinks and doesnt deal with money. I wish they would just take orders from the site, but pay with a card machine which 107% of people are used to.
      • driverdan 5y ago
        I would leave if they won't take payment in person. No way am I signing up for some shitty online service to pay for an in-person meal.
        • jackson1442 5y ago
          I personally much prefer scanning a code on my receipt then pressing the apple pay button to handing my debit card with all my payment details on it to a stranger.
  • Marsymars 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure that the only compromised credit card I've had in the past decade was due to something along these lines. I called a restaurant to get some takeout on Valentine's Day (one that I'd been to for dine-in previously, and had great food), and they told me that they didn't do phone orders, only online orders. I placed my food order, and was immediately also hit with a pending charge of <$1 for a utility provider in a difference province where I've never lived. (I get email notifications of credit card transactions.) Called bank and they cancelled card, so it didn't progress any further. I'm not inclined to eat at that restaurant again, or to ever order food online again.
  • bigiain 5y ago
    It certainly crossed my mind to print up some QR Code stickers that connect you to a wifi network named %p%s%s%s%s%n when you scan them, to slap over random ones around... http://api.qrserver.com/v1/create-qr-code/?color=000000&bgcolor=FFFFFF&data=WIFI%3AT%3Anopass%3BS%3A%25p%25s%25s%25s%25s%25n%3BP%3A%3B%3B&qzone=1&margin=0&size=400x400&ecc=L http://api.qrserver.com/v1/create-qr-code/?color=000000&bgco...
  • atatatat 5y ago
    Malicious Scan Here to Pay on the fuel dispenser/charger, etc
• 34679 5y ago
  Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't want 15 different companies telling each other what I just ate for lunch.
  • barbazoo 5y ago
    But then who would profit from it‽
  • cf499 5y ago
    Thanks for letting me know that I'm not alone! :D I handle QR codes by taking a picture and decoding on the command line using zbarimg. If the decoded output is a URL and looks safe I might visit the site. No way I'm letting an insecure device (basically all smartphones) follow random links blindly like that. And no way I'm giving up my data points for free if I can avoid it (remember how market researchers used to pay people to participate in focus group interviews?)
• er4hn 5y ago
  As a counterpoint, QR code menus work very well in China. I've been to places where you scan the code to open a menu that lets you place all your orders. You can also pay for your table via per table QR codes. As a side note, you don't customarily tip in restaurants in China, so a non high-end place with good food will typically have rushed and curt wait staff. Ordering through the phone will give you a better experience!
  • barbazoo 5y ago
    If only we could upload the food more efficiently. Then we wouldn't need restaurants at all.
  • dabfiend19 5y ago
    every restaurant and bar I've been to in Brooklyn in the last week now also has the menu, ordering, and payment entirely through the QR codes. most using the Toast platform. I don't see this trend going back the other way.
  • whimsicalism 5y ago
    It would be lovely if we could move closer to the Chinese consumer model re: QR codes in general. Wechat pay/Alipay are incredibly convenient.
    • seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      I find paying via QR code to be much less convenient than NFC that is more popular in the west. Tap and pay is really quick, especially in countries like Australia.
      • Spivak 5y ago
        With "App Clips" or "Instant Apps" or whatever you want to call them QR codes for me take the lead again. Get a receipt at the table, open camera, scan, app pops up with receipt, add tip, click click pay, done. Skipping the second waiter trip to swipe all the cards or the awkwardness of bringing out the PoS system to the table is immediately worth it to me.
• rhapsodic 5y ago
  Me: Uh, could I have a printed menu please? Waiter: I'm sorry, we don't use printed menus anymore. You'll have to scan the QR code with your phone. Me: Actually, I need a printed menu as an ADA accommodation. Are you refusing? Waiter: Give me a minute and I'll get you a menu.
• Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  I gotta say, I disagree with this piece. I, for one, love QR code menus. I can pinch zoom rather than squint at a menu with small/unreadable fonts in dim lighting. I don't need to badger the already exhausted wait staff on a busy night when they forget to drop us a menu or two. When orders are taken online, rather than awkwardly force a friend to not go to the bathroom (or take their kid to the bathroom) until a server can take their order, they can just order and then go. I do think restaurants should handle payment themselves and have the option for paper menus or menus posted on a wall if needed, but otherwise I'm a fan.
  • vxNsr 5y ago
    You’ve built a beautiful straw man that I’ve never seen in real life, rarely if ever have I encountered a menu with tiny font that is unreadable, I’ve never been to place that seated me and didn’t bring the menus at the same time. I’ve not experienced the bathroom thing either even in large parties, but it doesn’t sound awkward… if someone says they have to go to the bathroom they go, just tell the waiter this person will order a little later… or they call tell you what they want if they already know.
    • wlesieutre 5y ago
      Just because you have good eyesight doesn’t mean everyone else does
      • nsxwolf 5y ago
        If you have something that can read a QR code you also have something that can magnify text.
        • Talanes 5y ago
          I dated a girl with poor eyesight, and absent a digital version her method was the phone flashlight and holding the menu very close to her face. So the physical version was workable, but a pinch to zoom is still more dignified.
• nine_k 5y ago
  QR codes are fine. What is varying quality is the menus served by the links in QR codes. Some can be great, some can be terrible, and everything in between. Same thing with paper menus, except they are also bulky.
  • handmodel 5y ago
    A lot of menus on phones I find difficult as it is pretty unclear what the popular items are. Am I supposed to be looking at antipasta or "chicken" or "plates"? This isn't a given. Places could design better instead of designing for paper and then just putting that online. But I still strongly prefer not to have to take out phone when with people.
    • nine_k 5y ago
      It looks like a perfect SaaS opportunity. A good menu generator, with competent web layout, readable, zoomable, searchable. Results may be hosted or sent as a bunch of static files. The menu SPA page collects patrons' choices and forms a nice order for the waiter, as a text and as a QR code. Flat monthly rate for up to 200 menu updates a day, effectively unlimited but preventing abuse. A small flat fee for serving the menus online and generation of the QR code. One-time fee for each piece of personalization / branding work beyond the standard templates. Looks like a perfect side project for a couple of weekends, and then incessant low-intensity marketing efforts.
• neither_color 5y ago
  The worst thing about QR code menus is that they're often just a paper-sized PDF that you have to pinch and zoom around. If they could design QR code menus like responsive mobile sites inspired by food-ordering apps this wouldn't be an issue, they'd be even better than paper menus. When I was in China I enjoyed using their mobile menus. A common layout I saw was a narrow vertical bar on the left with categories(appetizers, main, drinks, etc) and cards with photos + details on the right. https://www.smartshanghai.com/uploads/articles/2019/06/6361561606766.jpg https://www.smartshanghai.com/uploads/articles/2019/06/63615...
  • Bayart 5y ago
    That design language makes sense with Chinese because it's dense. I'm not sure it would work with any language written in Roman script. Uber Eats for example uses a single vertical scrolling menu with horizontal separators and tab bars top and bottom.
  • jbluepolarbear 5y ago
    That looks quite distopian
  • IshKebab 5y ago
    Every pandemic ordering system I've used has been a proper app or website. Surely you have to have that in order to actually enter your order? You can't click "buy" on a PDF.
    • yoz-y 5y ago
      Most bars/restaurants I've been to have menus but no ordering system, you order and pay as before.
      • IshKebab 5y ago
        Must be regional. Are you in America? Maybe because card payment is less common?
• villgax 5y ago
  Said no one ever
  • redisman 5y ago
    I’ll say it. Bring back menus, QR code’s are terrible. You already printed this goofy thing why not just print the menu so I don’t have to dick around with some PDF on my phone. Perfect example of a solution looking for a problem
    • villgax 5y ago
      Yes, we should just add more avoidable surfaces of contact which do not get cleaned as often as utensils, thanks to your big brain right?
      • qbasic_forever 5y ago
        Wash your hands before the food is served, it's super common and recommended even in the pre-covid times. If you're touching your phone right before eating you DEFINITELY want to wash your hands. Think about where your phone usually sits, tightly pressed against your body absorbing all the sweat and detritus and bacteria on your person. Think of the last time you actually washed or sanitized your phone too...
        • villgax 5y ago
          Keys as well, makes me puke
• villgax 5y ago
  Entire article is like a joke
• bluedays 5y ago
  I do wonder how this effects accessibility. What if I don't have a device with me? What if I have a disability that prevents me from using a device? Seems like this might be an ADA compliance liability.
  • xyzelement 5y ago
    I am guessing you then ask for a paper menu and they give you one. You can probably just do that even if you don't have any issues. I've done that a few times when the online menu was annoying.
    • SavantIdiot 5y ago
      Not true at all! Many bars (that now call themselves "tap houses") have beer menus that are either only online, or printed in a 20pt font on a 54" LCD TV behind the bar. It is super annoying to have to get up for each beer because the server doesn't know what #32 out of 70 is let alone which number is a lager, and then not be able to read the menu (because my eyes suck) until I'm leaning over the bar. Super, super annoying.
      • xyzelement 5y ago
        That does suck
    • pyrale 5y ago
      With two competing channels, we won't have to wait long until one becomes an afterthought. I personally hope that QR codes (or whatever requires to use a smartphone) will be the one going the way of the dodo.
• mdoms 5y ago
  I have never seen such a restaurant and if I did I would leave immediately.
• earnesti 5y ago
  Why not both? Qr codes are sometimes quickest, as you dont need to wait for the waiter to bring the menus.
  • placatedmayhem 5y ago
    At the same time the hostess asks "Would you like crayons for the toddler?", it'd be simple to add "We have a digital menu, but would you like physical menus?". Or even a put "Physical menu available on request" below the QR code.
• Larrikin 5y ago
  Digital menus can work when they are made for the digital format. Most Qr codes are just the menus that were made to look beautiful on paper and suck to look at on your phone, I don't want to have to open up my phone and jump between pages on two separate documents on my phone. It's also terrible that I have to waste my battery life to order food every time. The ideal situation is isn't the China situation people are describing of scanning with their phone and opening an app or custom made site, it's the situation in Japan with a small tablet on the table everyone just puts their orders into and food is delivered as the orders are received when combined with a call bell for refills or asking questions. I don't have to install anything or worry about tracking.
  • dzhiurgis 5y ago
    Indeed, pair it with Apple Pay and it's like 5 tap deal. QR code already knows which table it is and even payment can be optional after the meal (tho I got so used to paying before I might just leave without paying nowadays).
  • scrollaway 5y ago
    > Most Qr codes are just the menus that were made to look beautiful on paper and suck to look at on your phone This is only the case because restaurants had to hurriedly find a solution to a bazillion problems at once, on a strained budget. Corners get cut.
    • otachack 5y ago
      This is a point I see missing in many of the top level posts, here. Restaurants literally went to the easiest solution for a more sanitary and viral transmission-free method to communicate a menu to customers. Of course it isn't going to be perfect. But everyone is a critic.
• mattacular 5y ago
  Definitely not looking forward to it whenever I get to travel internationally again and am relegated to free 2G or 3G networks and trying to load a restaurants heavy website just so I can look at the menu.
• SavantIdiot 5y ago
  No kidding! I got in the habit of not taking my phone with me everywhere I go, and suddenly QR codes and beer-tap menus are all online? Great.
  • throwyuno 5y ago
    What happens when you tell the staff you don’t have your phone? Do they not bring you a menu at that point?
• klhutchins 5y ago
  QR codes are no good if cell service is spotty with certain carriers. Recently at a distant restaurant, I scanned the QR, waited for it to time out, discover there was no cell service, find the free wifi, enable my VPN, connect to the restaurants wifi, wait for authentication, then open camera app and scan QR again, wait for the kindle app to open the PDF, only to be handed a paper menu a few seconds later... I know how a menu works. I read the food, see the price, and order. Personally I want to relax at a restaurant and not troubleshoot for myself and others, all while increasing my stress levels. One way to fix this might be to encode the full text of the menu within the QR code, instead of a link? QR codes are handy for easing people into eating out again... but wow; it can be pretty frustrating. Something I find myself thinking about more, is how Technology really needs to be more reliable, and how we really need to consider all the edge cases, before we can begin to replace the simple items such as a menu, let along more complex systems....Rant: I want something that will work 100% of the time.
  • Charon77 5y ago
    Why not just setup wifi hotspot, make the captive page the menu.
    • bspammer 5y ago
      Usually the restaurant hasn’t made their own site but is paying some menus-as-a-service company to handle it for them. E.g. https://www.meandu.com.au/ https://www.meandu.com.au/
    • driverdan 5y ago
      Why not hand out regular menus instead of using unnecessary technology?
      • Spivak 5y ago
        Because the digital menu is cheaper. A lot cheaper. You don't have to reprint when you alter it, you can automatically move people to the right menu based on the date/time.
• smcameron 5y ago
  Spray paint over the QR codes.
• kebman 5y ago
  IMHO it should be like this: Read QR code next to dish. It executes order for dish, and subtracts set amount of Bitcoin (perhaps with a confirmation so you're not scammed).
  • Black101 5y ago
    It also automatically files your income tax... (what a stupid law the US Gov. made when they decided to not consider crypto as currencies)
• _delirium 5y ago
  My biggest surprise in these comments is that people seem to have actually successfully used a QR code! I always assumed they were an iPhone only feature, so I ignore them. I've read that the Android camera app is supposed to recognize QR codes, but it doesn't seem to on my phone.
  • IlliOnato 5y ago
    On Android, you open your camera app and then tap on "Google Lens". This allows you to scan QR codes.
    • squiggleblaz 5y ago
      The text "Google Lens" may not appear even though it is present. My Google Lens button is a cryptic symbol. Modern user interface design seems to give bonus points for being cryptic and obscure because companies are hostile to the idea that they might empower the user - a sense of confusion and uncertainty acts as a form of lockin.
      • teddyh 5y ago
        A.k.a. “mystery meat navigation”.
  • qbasic_forever 5y ago
    It varies on Android, some manufacturers ship custom camera apps that include automatic QR code detection and decoding. Many people don't even realize the Android they're using is really a highly-customized vendor skin and suite of apps. Samsung in particular does this, and its camera app auto recognizes QR codes.
    • _delirium 5y ago
      I have a Pixel bought directly from the Google Store, so I assumed it'd have the most recent features, whatever they are! The Pixel 3a, though, doesn't seem to do anything special with QR codes, besides photographing them.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• qbasic_forever 5y ago
  Is it weird that I haven't been inside a restaurant in nearly 18 months and have no idea this change even occured?
• murphyslab 5y ago
  As mentioned in the article, having a digital menu allows for a restaurant to adjust its offering in subtle and responsive ways. If a place is out of one ingredient, those items for which it is necessary could be struck. Or one could have "surge pricing" — not desirable as a customer, but certainly for a dining establishment. And one could also collect more information on customers. I'm still inclined toward tangible menus. For the one positive point (adaptability), I am reminded of one of the best restaurant meals that I ever had. The beer menu was a small laminated card, but the brief food menu was just written on a chalk board each day. When I arrived a few items were already struck with a line through them. One really can't beat that kind of simplicity, with no reliance on digital devices unless for payment, if desired. (kelnos pointed out that I missed something in the article; edited to address that point.)
  • kelnos 5y ago
    > If a place is out of one ingredient, those items for which it is necessary could be struck. The article actually does mention that exact thing.
    • murphyslab 5y ago
      Thanks. Not sure how I missed the line in the brackets; I'd only caught the part about seasonal entrees somehow.
  • MikeUt 5y ago
    They could even charge different customers different rates, partnering with advertising firms to provide customer identification and segmentation.
    • murphyslab 5y ago
      Or show a more affluent customer a different menu — one where everything is labelled deluxe, bespoke, or through terminology substitutions similar to "Patagonian toothfish" → "Chilean sea bass".
• whymauri 5y ago
  Depends on the setting, honestly. In a cafe, it's nice to continue working while just ordering on the QR. In some sit down restaurants, it does feel like the service is strictly lower quality with the QR codes. It's hard to convey what exactly you want sometimes, especially since not all these QR apps have a notes section. Allergies? Substitutions? This stuff just gets slightly harder/annoying, albeit not horribly difficult ofc. I find myself agreeing most with the authors on this, though: > I despise spending the first 10 minutes of a social engagement on my phone. This just sucks and I'm tired of it.
  • noduerme 5y ago
    "... it's nice to continue working..." yes, this is also the problem with so many cafes. People go there to get some work done but also to interact. To strike up conversations about work or life with people outside your usual bubble. If you didn't want to be around other people you could stay in the office or at home. But in recent years everyone wears headphones and has so many devices that walking into a cafe at lunchtime is like going into a call center. What's the point? I've worked on laptops in cafes since the early 90s when I was usually the only one with a computer. But I learned the civility that if you're going to work in a public space, part of the reason you're doing that is to take time away from your work to interact with other people, including the service staff. Usually I would never go work "out" until all the job reqs for the day were done and I was comfortable being interrupted. To go into a public space and tune everything out and demand that it function like your private office is a bizarre antisocial feature of a generation that has spent too much time on social media and doesn't know how to act or respond in real life. Walking into those places now just makes me sad.
    • whymauri 5y ago
      From my view... there are cafes for working and cafes for socializing, and to me they have different vibes and regulars. Or perhaps I'm fortunate enough to live in a city where there's such a distinction, I'm not really sure. For example, there used to be a cafe around here with a designated 'no laptops, no work' area and some board games (R.I.P. Longfellow's). There's a local chain that doesn't even provide WiFi. Contrast that to the hyper-sterile Blue Bottle Coffee less than a mile away -- I actually do like their coffee, but I don't go there to socialize. It's a space optimized to cycle people in-and-out ASAP. Pre-COVID I actually ran a small mailing list for people to hang out at rotating local cafes, so I get what you mean to some extent. Even then, you're probably right that doesn't seem as dire to me because I grew up post-2000.
• noduerme 5y ago
  As a former waiter, I tip extra well. If I encountered this, I'd be tempted not to tip at all except maybe slipping a $10 bill to the runner or the bus boy. And I wouldn't go back to the restaurant.
  • sundaeofshock 5y ago
    I’m also a former wait person so I don’t understand why you would punish the server because of the owner’s business decision.
    • throwawayboise 5y ago
      If the servers don't get good tips, they go work elsewhere, so it eventually punishes the owner. Sucks for the servers in the meantime though.
      • noduerme 5y ago
        Pretty much this. I would probably quit a restaurant that did this because on the face of it, it takes away my ability to serve the customer, listen to them, explain, upsell, and generally provide the service they're tipping me for. Why would I expect a good tip if I didn't have that interaction with them?
• Grumbledour 5y ago
  I read an article a few years back (Though I am unable to find it now) that complained about diners taking longer and longer to order these days, especially because they play around with their phones instead of perusing the menu. (I think this conclusion was based on surveillance tapes) I do wonder if having the menu on your phone could actually be more engaging to these kind of diners (or at least prevent them from doing anything else), so that the whole ordering food process is sped up?
  • bell-cot 5y ago
    I also recall that. This 7-year-old article pretty much says the same thing: https://gothamist.com/food/restaurant-finds-phone-zombies-slow-down-service-keep-taking-photos https://gothamist.com/food/restaurant-finds-phone-zombies-sl... A less-polite phrasing of your theory: Fed-up restaurant owners are trying to claw back as much as they can from the overhead and miseries of dealing with phone-addicted customers.
• cm2012 5y ago
  If you go to a restaurant with boomers it's a huge annoyance. Their older phones can't read qr codes.
• NamTaf 5y ago
  I understand the benefits of phyiscal menus, but I for one relied on QR codes when working in China. I could go into a restaurant alone and use screenshots + google translate to essentially feed myself. Without a QR code, it was a gamble as to whether there were photos for me to see to order. Moreover, I didn't have to assume the waiter knew English, they'd just ferry out my food to my table when it was ready. I relied on this multiple times whilst there. There's certainly benefits to both, and offering both makes sense to me. As with all things, a few options tends to be good.
  • HelloNurse 5y ago
    Google Translate has been using OCR to replace foreign text in live camera input for several years. Didn't it work on Chinese printed menus?
    • nly 5y ago
      When I was last in China (I've been last twice in the last 5 years) I still couldn't even get data on my phone. Does GT work well offline?
      • squiggleblaz 5y ago
        If you can't get data on your phone, how does a QR code link help you out? It seems you're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    • NamTaf 5y ago
      Yeh, I could photograph and use OCR on the menu, but it's not as reliable because of the varying quality of the printed menu text. A second thing was realising that the realtime OCR wasn't as good as an image and then scanning afterwards. However, that still doesn't address the issue of having to communicate! I guess I also found QR Code menus to generally have more pics than printed ones, so it covered off both of those issues. I should add that the QR codes were not just the menu, but also your table so when you placed an order through Wechat it knew what table you were at so they'd literally just bring it over when it's ready.
• jayd16 5y ago
  Can we make these NFC stickers as well at least? Seems like that would work far better.
• RalfWausE 5y ago
  First: I am from germany, so, my perspective may differ from other parts of the world... and due to the pandemic, my last meal eaten in an restaurant was in the early beginnig of 2020. But i really never, never encountered a menu via QR Code... why would anyone want this?! If you are going to eat out, then it is (at least with the people i know) considered ab-so-lu-tely rude to even get your phone out (unless you are an doctor on call), using it would be a totally no-go. So... this is something i am really glad that it has not washed at our shores... at least not yet.
  • zimpenfish 5y ago
    > it is (at least with the people i know) considered ab-so-lu-tely rude to even get your phone out Whereas with people I know, it's not because / people have kids|partners they check in with / people sometimes just don't have the energy for constant peopling and the phone is a brief respite / people are sysadmins|on-call and get occasional blip warnings / people are checking on something to answer a question / etc.
  • bigiain 5y ago
    I totally agree with you and your friends, but we're losing this fight. Which I find sad...
    • RalfWausE 5y ago
      The good thing is: Even IF this trend carries on, there will always be the niche of the restaurants / cafes with big "no mobile phones allowed" stickers on the door (i know at least a couple of these even now...).
  • sofixa 5y ago
    > First: I am from germany, so, my perspective may differ from other parts of the world... and due to the pandemic, my last meal eaten in an restaurant was in the early beginnig of 2020 > So... this is something i am really glad that it has not washed at our shores... at least not yet How can you know if you haven't eaten in a restaurant since early 2020? Here in France, i had absolutely never seen it before the pandemic, but now it's ubiquitous even if roughly half the places also have a paper menu they can give/give anyways.
• PostThisTooFast 5y ago
  That headline makes no sense. Fucking illiterates.
• __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
  I'm surprised the author didn't mention the worst part In most cases, the file is called "menu.pdf", so after downloading the PDF you then have to figure out if menu(12).pdf is the cocktail menu or the food menu.
• refactor_master 5y ago
  Please just do away with the back-and-forth dance of paying for a meal on literal silver platters. In a busy cash-only restaurant you can spend 10 minutes on that alone.
• apurtbapurt 5y ago
  In Sweden the QR menues tend to be based on Facebook messenger. The restaurants that use this system also tend to push very hard for avoiding manual orders and payments. It is a complete farce every time, since most of the people I go out with don't use Facebook. We are usually not the only patrons annoyed by this, so I hope they give up soon. I will never go pack to a place that don't let me order normally.
  • pyrale 5y ago
    > The restaurants that use this system also tend to push very hard for avoiding manual orders and payments. This is the real issue I see with this system going forward. Becoming a second-class client simply because I don't have a cell-phone on me at all times is not going to be great.
• pontiacbandit8 5y ago
  This article is so subjective it does not make a single case to support the title.
• Causality1 5y ago
  Huh, you know, I've never seen that before. I guess restaurants around here know people wouldn't put up with it. Basically all of them switched to single-use paper menus.
• sksksk 5y ago
  When they work well, they're really good, but when they work badly, they're _really_ bad. The other week, I went for dinner at a place that had a online ordering system. My experience was as follows... Arrive at the table, scan the QR code No phone signal in the restaurant, so I need to connect to the wifi. Connect to the wifi, get a captive portal Need to put my phone number in to connect to the wifi; there is no signal, so I need to go outside, to receieve the confirmation code. Connected to the wifi, scan the code again, choose my food. Go to pay, need to register an account Put my email address in, I already have an account on this food ordering service!? Do a password reset Put in my credit card details (why not use apple pay?). This whole time, we're sat at a table, in theory to meet friends, but we've spent the first 15 minutes all glued to our phones!
  • Robotbeat 5y ago
    Having to have a phone signal to receive a wifi confirmation code is one of my least favorite things ever.
  • vmception 5y ago
    I haven't seen anything that bad since last summer. Actually I've seen some QR code and online based checkout systems that were bad, but I just ignore those with a "I'm not signing up for that"
  • HelloNurse 5y ago
    Assuming there was another restaurant nearby, I'd have simplified the process to "go outside". If a restaurant is too cheap to print a menu, why should I consider it good enough for me?
    • topicseed 5y ago
      With covid, many restaurants removed paper menus to avoid transmission. I hate QR codes so that was a move I was not in favour of.....
      • nly 5y ago
• vmception 5y ago
  > Before the pandemic, I’d shudder at the sight of a restaurant table full of people all staring at their phones. I was always happy not to be them or be sitting with them. I always kept the lively conversation flowing at my table. I always thought this perspective was funny because it always assumed what the people on their phones were doing. The assumption is that they are disengaged with each other when it's just as likely that they are talking with each other in a group chat alongside a few other non-present participants in the same group chat, and all trying to share photos with each other that they just took from the outting beforehand, or setting up a way to split costs in advance, or something else equally or more interactive than a conversation you can eavesdrop on. Usually it's just shitty UX slowing them down.
  • dkarp 5y ago
    > it's just as likely that they are talking with each other in a group chat alongside a few other non-present participants in the same group chat To me, that's just as bad. Spend time with the people you're with while you're with them. Text the others later. But different strokes!
    • vmception 5y ago
      Okay then, it is just as likely they are only talking with each other in a group chat made specifically for sharing media and coordination, and not any non-present participants. Sitting down at some kind of place to eat is remarkably one of the only places where there is organic down time to synchronize media. I do have enough self awareness to joke with my friends that out of touch people think we are probably just disengaged with each other on our phones.
  • jbluepolarbear 5y ago
    I mean, if that’s how you and your friends want to hang. I don’t like that experience and choose to go to restaurants with people I’d like to eat with and talk to in person. For me, pulling out the phone at dinner is rude. Whatever it is can wait the until after dinner.
    • 5y ago
• somehnacct3757 5y ago
  Literally every restaurant I've eaten at since reopening has QR menus, but the host/hostess always asks if we want paper menus. Maybe the author can ask for the paper menu instead of writing manufactured outrage articles.
  • throwyuno 5y ago
    Yes, my partner and I recently went out to eat and did not bring our phones. I said, “We don’t have our phones.” The server brought us paper menus, and we were all OK.
• elric 5y ago
  It's really simple: if I can't read your menu, I'm not eating. Goodbye. IIRC there's a law here that mandates a menu visible from outside the premises, it isn't always followed to the letter, but but most places comply, and it's a great way to avoid unpleasant pricing surprises. Same with paying. You don't accept cash or credit cards? Goodbye. You only accept apple pay or some other nonsense payment system? Goodbye. And you'd better advertise your accepted payment methods outside if you want to avoid unpleasant surprises. There are plenty of restaurants/bars out there. I'm not spending money in any place that clearly doesn't want me there. And if you really insist on a silly QR menu, then at least include a human readable version of the URL. Seriously. It's not that hard.
  • dual_dingo 5y ago
    > And if you really insist on a silly QR menu, then at least include a human readable version of the URL. Seriously. It's not that hard. OK, here is the URL: > http://customer0931.incompetentagency.com/?location=2k12kx&item=k21k2la2kkasl&view=qrcodepdf http://customer0931.incompetentagency.com/?location=2k12kx&i... Have fun :)
    • elric 5y ago
      I would argue that doesn't quite qualify as human readable ... Surely something like https://restaurant.tld/menu https://restaurant.tld/menu would make more sense ...
      • lowercased 5y ago
        After 20 years of web, I still see commercially printed URLs on signs/buildings/cars/etc that do not understand redirects. I saw http://www.ourcompany.com/sub/registration.aspx http://www.ourcompany.com/sub/registration.aspx on printed on a glass door the other day - looked like etching at first, but may have something else? This was at a local theater/event space, IIRC. "ourcompany.com/register" is infinitely more understandable, and unsure why no one in the chain of command for that decision didn't press for something simpler. But they often don't (still). I remember seeing an email printed on a service truck back... 2002? 2003? "Email us as www.myservicename@yahoo.com". I never tried it - perhaps they actually had that email, but I suspect people were still in the habit of saying "www dot" before anything that had to do with "internet".
• ho_schi 5y ago
  I also want the menu card back. Does a digital menu card something better? Digitalization for digitalization. In-flight magazines and newspapers are not spreading Covid-19, neither does cash. But unvaccinated people do and people which doesn't use soap and water spread literally anything.
• ijcd 5y ago
  X
  • gizmo 5y ago
    > Please die. You can't post like this here.
    • ijcd 5y ago
      X
• nly 5y ago
  One plus for restaurants seems to be they can make you pay prior to, rather than after, your meal. I'm a bit worried this practice will live past COVID simply because of this.
  • squiggleblaz 5y ago
    It is trivial to get people to pay for their meal before eating. In Australia it's very common in some kinds of place, in a way that I understand confuses some tourists. The reason these QR codes would last is because of the telemetry and tracking they will enable.
• rory_isAdonk 5y ago
  Its a shame we cant simply condense the entire menu into a QR code as opposed to a link.
• hortense 5y ago
  One thing that is fantastic about digital menus is that you can search in them.
• dkdbejwi383 5y ago
  I really despise when the QR code just sends you to the App Store to download some (crappy, probably web-to-native) app, where you have to create an account, verify your email, then add credit card details manually. Extra points off if there's no wifi and the venue is somewhere with poor signal, so it takes 10 minutes and rinses my battery. A web-based menu that just opens the browser and lets me pay with Apple Pay is acceptable given the current circumstances. I dislike having several single-use apps for random pubs and restaurants cluttering my phone.
  • abraxas 5y ago
    So don't patronize such places! If people don't refuse it this bullshit will spread.
    • dkdbejwi383 5y ago
      I agree with the sentiment, but unfortunately you only find out how the menu/ordering system works once you've already sat down, and given everything here in the UK needs to be booked ahead of time, it's not as simple as just going somewhere else down the road.
• jiofih 5y ago
  QR code’s are awesome. No greasy menu to hold, up to date availability, can see more details and better pictures for each item, and order without waiting for someone to show up at the table.
• bartread 5y ago
  I've never enjoyed standing at the bar waiting to order, not even as an underage teen when going to a pub or club was a shiny new experience. Never. And especially not when it's busy. (If I never again experience standing 10 deep at the bar in a busy Wetherspoons, or a gig, on a Saturday night I will shed not one single solitary tear.) So in some sense table service is an improvement. But I'm with the author on QR codes and mobile ordering. I'm sick to the back teeth of it. Every other restaurant or pub has their own flawed and busted-ass interpretation of how an ordering app should work, and payment is an inconsistent mess. Some places have an app, some have a website. None of it works the same bloody way, and it can all go and do one in the ninth circle of Hades as far as I'm concerned. These are all first world problems, but they're still problems. And I'd take standing at the bar and ordering drinks over any of them, with possible exceptions for the busier scenarios I specifically picked out in my first paragraph. (Don't overinterpret me: I don't mind sticking to the rules for the time being, but when restrictions relax and I don't have to do any of these annoying things any more I will literally skip for joy.)
• koolhaas 5y ago
  My preferred combo: QR code at the table for menu browsing. Order with a human. Then QR code on the bill to (optionally) pay on your phone, ideally with Apple Pay. But you have the option still to leave out your CC for a more leisurely payment flow.
• CaptArmchair 5y ago
  It's valid to ask this question: What problem(s) are digital menu's really solving? I can spot a handful. For restaurant owners: ease of updating the menu (pricing, dishes, suggestions,...), (perceived) lower cost of maintaining paper menu's (whether disposable or reusable). For patrons: you can bookmark the menu if it's a webpage on the restaurant's website, there's (perceived) accessibility (e.g. font zooming) but that's offset with the higher bar of scanning a QR code. Maybe there's a niche market to be spotted for BI / data acquisition? It would be quite a tenuous proposition, since consulting a menu isn't the sames as capturing orders. Not to mention the hairy privacy issues associated here. Here's an alternate business case where the perceived benefits of QR codes are greatly diminished pending the specific context: museums and galleries. The success of using QR codes works pending on the type of audience, the type of collection, the vision on the specific user experience a museum wants to achieve, the ability to spend time / resources on providing and keeping digital content up to date, time spend helping people out,... It's not as easy as "slap QR codes on a wall, and they will be scanned." In the same vain, QR codes may work well in some venues, and they won't work at all in others. Context matters. A lot. For instance, if you operate a bar or restaurant in a cozy, 19th century, cottage setting and you want to foster that specific atmosphere / experience towards your patrons, sticking QR codes to the old wood would immediately detract from that. I don't see QR codes work greatly either if your into a gastronomic / gourmet niche for instance. Opposite of the spectrum, there's fast food chains and loads of small businesses who just want to get food out of the door and not much more: to them, a menu is just a business expense and a QR code is a good solution to cut costs. I don't really mind QR codes. When I go to a run-of-the-mill place for take out, I don't mind scanning a code. My expectations will change, however, if I'm going to spend time and money hoping to get a specific experience out of it.
• kall 5y ago
  I‘m visually impaired and QR code menus have been a real boon to me. I‘m gonna be using my phone camera to read the menu either way, It‘s great when I don‘t have to keep the autofocus steady and illuminate half of a dark restaurant with the LED light. Previously I would often try to find the menu on the website instead, but the QR codes are way more convenient. A direct link to the menu on the google maps listing is also pretty good. Most importantly it has normalized my previously "weird" behaviour socially.
• scudd 5y ago
  I could not agree more. Additionally, if you are going to use a QR code and web page as opposed to a physical menu, there's no shame in just statically hosting a PDF of your menu. It's so frustrating that some bars/restaurants use some third party App that wants me to store my email address and credit card. Also janky UI that's totally unnecessary, considering a static page totally suffices.
• oleks 5y ago
  I like QR codes, and ordering via phone. You don't have to wait around for the waiter to bring the menu, take your order, take your payment. Don't have to touch a menu that hasn't been disinfected, or is out of date. They do need to be properly implemented however. That is maybe more a business opportunity than an inconvenience.
• murbard2 5y ago
  The best solution — pandemic or no pandemic — is a tablet at the table that you can use to order directly and also works as POS. Unfortunately, it's seen as low status so unlikely to be widely adopted. The fact that waitering uses a push model vs a pull model is insane.
  • technothrasher 5y ago
    Any time I've ever seen a tablet at the table, it's been used to push annoying ads at me trying to upsell shit. No, I don't want to add a wicked bloomin' onion or a Chocolato(tm) margarita. I don't need a flashing squawk box bothering me while I'm trying to have dinner, thanks. While I'm sure you could design a table tablet that didn't do that, it's obviously too tempting for them to do it.
• thiscatis 5y ago
  This has been a really interesting thread for us, if anyone commenting here wants to provide some more feedback on QR code based menus and payment at table and have a more in-depth discussion feel free to reach out at hn@pomelopay.com. We have a product directly related to this which we're always keen to improve - https://www.pomelopay.com/features/table-ordering https://www.pomelopay.com/features/table-ordering
• casion 5y ago
  I've never seen a QR code menu. I wasn't aware that this is a thing. An I the only one?
  • modo_mario 5y ago
    It seems to be a regional thing. I never noticed em much in the wider region where i live in Belgium but then i went to Brussels and suddenly every restaurant and bar had em. Some at least did have regular menus too and the barcodes mostly served as a quicker alternative until said menu was brought.
• chpmrc 5y ago
  How long before someone exploits this? - Build an app that injects malware but also shows the restaurant's menu. Give it the same name as the restaurant. - Go to the restaurant, overlay your QR code sticker on top of the restaurant's. - When someone scans the code they are asked to install "[Restaurant's name] menu", obviously they are going to do it. - They open the app -> malware is activated, menu is shown. Profit.
  • discordance 5y ago
    That exploit would only work once. As soon as the first customer, who gets charged $20 or whatever, reports that they didn’t get their meal it would be checked. And then it would be pretty easy to find out when the QR codes were replaced. Then camera footage of that person would be sent to the police and they would be up for fraud. Great exploit.
  • dna_polymerase 5y ago
    I'm totally going to use my 0day iOS sandbox escape to steal the $50 order from the restaurant down the street.
• CubsFan1060 5y ago
  I'm slightly surprised that App Clips, Instant Apps, and NFC haven't taken off more in this space.
  • deergomoo 5y ago
    I would guess because they're significantly more work. There's a good chance the restaurant already had an online menu pre-pandemic; printing off a few QR codes that point to that URL is five minutes work vs. hiring a developer for who knows how long.
• timdaub 5y ago
  Hey so in any case if someonw or you yourself is struggling to understand how to scan a qr code on their phone, always point them to my mini tiny product called https://scan.lol https://scan.lol
• toastal 5y ago
  Are there good examples of QR-code menus out there? I could see something like adding i18n being really nice for people that don't speak English.
• madjam002 5y ago
  One restaurant that I went to requires a QR code, you scan it and get a menu, have to choose everything you want to order, have to enter your personal details (name, phone, email, address) and card details. Unfortunately the food is pretty good there.
• Farbklex 5y ago
  This shows that there is room for a well designed, easy menu app. No ordering, no separate app installs, no mandatory accounts for the end-customer, no PDF menus. Native app clip / instant app is a also a good use case for this if you really want to develop more than just a good mobile site. Add the ability for the owner to quickly make changes to the menu (dish of the day?) and it should be better than what we have right now. Of course only if you have decent internet coverage at the place.
• tristor 5y ago
  This is one subtle reason I love Boomers. They don’t want to deal with this sort of stuff and businesses have no choice (for now) to cater to them, which means annoyances from tech being unnecessarily inserted into a process are almost always bypassable simply by asking politely. I’ve yet to be forced to use a QR code menu. I have sometimes had the alternative be looking at a large menu board over having a menu card in my hands, but even many restaurants will happily hand you a menu card on request. That said, given the circumstances I haven’t left a 50 mile radius of my house, so it’s possible it’s different elsewhere.
• herbst 5y ago
  I don't have a phone number (verification) and don't bring internet with me all the time. Guess that would already lock me out me out of many restaurants? But same is true for most tourists. I haven't been out eating since the pandemic, but if this makes uncomplicated WiFi hotspots in restaurants more common I am ok with it I guess.
• dqpb 5y ago
  Last weekend a much older couple (late 70s) sat at a table next to me and the QR code menu was a big accessibility fail for them.
• CamelRocketFish 5y ago
  One benefit of them is reduction is paper waste. If a restaurant needs to update its menu, it doesn’t need to do a reprint, it can just update the website.
• joshspankit 5y ago
  I wonder if anyone is printing unique QR codes for each set of diners so that they can track engagement more deeply. Or “scan this code to flag the waiter”.
  • dagw 5y ago
    At all the places I've seen doing this, they have a unique QR code for each table.
• marapuru 5y ago
  I've had a waiter looking at me puzzled why my phone wasn't able to scan a QR code. I told him already that my camera wasn't able to. But I had to open the camera in front of him. - "Have you tried rotating the camera?" - "Try zooming in and out" - "Why don't you download a QR code app!?" These questions / remarks were placed by him while showing him it really didn't work. When I told him I didn't want to download a QR scanner application due to privacy reasons he left with an even more puzzled face as before, to walk inside and finally bring me a paper menu. These f*cking QR-codes _made_ me an annoying customer.
  • m-p-3 5y ago
    I seriously hope Google pushes their OEM to include QR code support in the builtin camera app. This should be a default feature. That said, if you want a privacy-friendly QR Code reader app on Android, Binary Eye is my recommendation. GitHub: https://github.com/markusfisch/BinaryEye https://github.com/markusfisch/BinaryEye Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.markusfisch.android.binaryeye https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.markusfisch... F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/packages/de.markusfisch.android.binaryeye/ https://f-droid.org/packages/de.markusfisch.android.binaryey...
    • JeremyNT 5y ago
      Thanks for the tip on Binary Eye. I've long used Barcode Scanner [0] from f-droid, which appears to be the origin of the "Zebra Crossing" scanner implementation Binary Eye uses. "Barcode Scanner" is now in maintenance mode, so it's good to have a migration path! Google really does its users a disservice by not simply providing a decent barcode scanner with AOSP. The lack of such a basic utility makes it so easy for users to install spyware in frustration just trying to accomplish the task (sort of like the early "flashlight apps"). I've long wondered why they decided to make this task so hard - it reminds me of their omission of video output on the Pixel phones, but in that case their motivations are clear (they want to force people to use Cast instead) - I seriously can't understand what their rationale is for making QR scanning difficult! [0] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.google.zxing.client.android/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.google.zxing.client.andr...
• jordemort 5y ago
  This is just the same old “phones are destroying our society and I’m better than other people because I avoid them” article with a pandemic spin.
• tjpnz 5y ago
  We've just come out of a period in Tokyo where alcohol wasn't allowed to be served. I visited a few restaurants during that time with QR code menus and none of them were updated to reflect that fact. I'm not sure why that was but if they're not easy to update there's no real benefit to them over traditional menus.
• breakfastduck 5y ago
  Just another way to degrade service for the consumer while saving money on not needing as many wait staff. Its infurating, they have no way to modify an order or to have your waiter actually know what the fuck you're ordering.
• cik 5y ago
  QR menus are fantastic here. It's such a pleasurable experience. No more menus with something taped or scribbled on it due to a pricing adjustment. Given the proliferation of languages spoken here, people frequently take a menu and run it through Google Translate, literally getting restaurants more business as a result. It's at the point where I just find paper menus antiquated and aggravating. Heck, many places just pass out tablets now, for the same reason. It's literally easier to pass out cheap tablets with the menu already loaded as a PDF, than it is to deal with paper.
• Philip-J-Fry 5y ago
  I used a self serve coke machine the other week. You scanned a QR code and then your phone would connect remotely to the machine. You selected your drink and then you pressed the dispense button on your phone. Neat tech but unusable if you don't have data or don't have a good signal. And it had a noticeable delay from pressing the button to when the actual device would stop. If you were unlucky I'm sure that somehow you could end up overfilling your cup and spilling it everywhere. Didn't look like it had much in the way of drainage.
• wycy 5y ago
  In almost all cases you can ask for a paper menu if the QR code isn't working for you. I once went to a place where the QR menu worked for everyone but me. They gave me a paper menu and it was no big deal.
• basisword 5y ago
  Really didn’t take us long to get back to our first world problems did it? As with most tech things the QR menus work well when they’re implemented well and poorly when they’re implanted poorly. Multi-language support (without having to print menus in lots of languages that might not get used) is something I’ve seen in a few places. There is also the opportunity to make them a more accessible option if done right. It allows restaurants to make updates to menu items more frequently and more when something isn’t available.
  • dantheman 5y ago
    You have a small device, where you have to scroll. So much nicer when you can actually look at the menu.
    • giarc 5y ago
      I suspect there are things that would improve the experience for everyone. For example, instead of the customer asking "Is X gluten free, is Y gluten free" the online menu could have filters for various allergies etc. Online menus could also offer more pictures, videos of meals, better upsells etc.
      • kerkeslager 5y ago
        Videos of meals? Better upsells? Are you trying to create my personal hell?
        • giarc 5y ago
          :) I could see some features becoming quite annoying, especially if you have to click through a bunch of upsells to finally add item to order. I think places could get creative though, for example leave comments for the chef about the meal, make specific requests which the prep team can respond to, have the chef speak about the daily specials in video rather than have a wait staff regurgitate them after having never tried them.
• swayvil 5y ago
  Yes. Experienced this for the first time just a couple days ago. Couldn't get the damn thing to work. Bunch of BS. I just want a dang menu.
• gbasin 5y ago
  What will actually happen is QR code menu experiences will get better, and paper menus will ... stay stagnant. A tale as old as time
  • devney 5y ago
    That's great! As other commenters here have mentioned an online menu accessed by a QR code can have lots of extra features: multiple languages, filters for gluten/nuts/etc. Meanwhile since I, speaking the local language and not having special dietary needs, want to look at a paper menu while my fone stays in my pocket. I don't think anyone is actually arguing against having the QR/online menu. That's a great thing. What we're complaining about here is that restaurants have taken away the IRL menu.
    • jackson1442 5y ago
      Have you actually been to anywhere that has refused to give you a paper menu? Everywhere I’ve been lately has either clearly had a stack of menus up front that you can grab on the way to your table or the waitstaff has given us (typically fewer than are in our party) paper menus. Typically one or two of us will use the paper menu and the rest will use the digital menu. Payment by QR on the receipt, however, is absolutely fantastic. A place near me uses Toast and it just opens an app clip, has me review my receipt, touch Apple Pay, and I’m done. I’ve always felt uncomfortable giving my server full access to my debit card details just to pay for a meal.
  • driverdan 5y ago
    What does that even mean? Paper menus don't need to change, they work perfectly fine as they are.
• devney 5y ago
  We could talk about why all day long but I want to make this fact super clear to any restaurant workers/owners: If you ask me to get my fone out of my pocket then I leave and give my business to your competition. Literally all it takes is a menu printout taped to a wall and you can keep my business. Make it happen.
• infecto 5y ago
  It's really interesting to see how a crowd of tech workers who generally are trying to pave the way are so quick to attack and be negative. Like all things in life, when its implemented well it works and when it does not it is terrible. I still think there is room for this to be the future though. I say this as a westerner but perhaps the west is not ready for it yet but I really enjoyed the experience of using QR codes in China. Go to a restaurant I just get shown where to sit and don't need to waste time with the host/server giving me menus or telling me anything. If I have questions they are there to answer the but I can also just sit down, scan the QR code, menu opens up and I can order food. Food just shows up minutes later. When I am done I go to the front and pay with Alipay. The benefits to me of not having physical menus is huge. From the business perspective there is less interaction time necessary to serve a diner. Sure if this is an upscale high touch experience physical menu is where it stays BUT the majority of dining experiences are not like this. The menu is up to date and easy to modify. Possible to include multiple pictures and information about the food. I might be wild but I really like the experience and wish more places would adopt it. Like all things I think here in the west its still too new so we have a mixed bag of good and bad implementations. Give it a few years and I think it will be narrowed down to the POS providers who offer it as a feature.
  • melomal 5y ago
    It's odd because it almost seems like a middle ground of having both options is unacceptable. It's chalk and cheese, black or white. You can literally have both physical and digital menu's and cater to everyone's needs. No harm done. People who loathe the idea can carry on, people that love the idea can carry on.
    • jasonlotito 5y ago
      That's what I'm seeing at restaurants around here, both options. Default to digital, with the offer of a physical menu if you need. It's nice. Is that not common?
      • melomal 5y ago
        Going from the mass hate for QR code menus you would think not? Honestly, what's up with these polar opposites on HN. Never a middle ground.
• imwillofficial 5y ago
  “Bring back menus, QR code’s are terrible.” Thank God somebody had the spine to say it. QR code implementation is a mess. I’ve had a terrible time when a phone is out of battery, poor reception, or buggy. I hate relying on my phone for something as simple as a meal out. All seemed rather dystopian.
• enobrev 5y ago
  I've been loading the menus on my phone before I get to the restaurant. Works great. Never have to concern myself with a signal or wifi or anything. And sometimes I even know what I want before I show up. Also, because of the QR code trend, more restaurants now have updated menus on their websites. When I invite friends to dinner, I text them all links to the menu so they don't have to deal with the on-site awkwardness. I have nothing against printed menus, but I think there's some real potential with dynamic menus that are immediately accessible to everyone even before they arrive. Multiple language support, immediately-adjustable specials menu, filtering for food preference and allergy requirements, maybe even an ordering history allowing you to re-order, or explicitly not order the same thing twice, even ordering (or server hailing). It's clear the UX isn't there yet, but it was all thrown together by non-technical small-business owners on short notice, who have been trying to make things work at a very strange time. I'm actually kind of impressed at how well it's generally worked in my experience. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes of it.
• kneel 5y ago
  QR codes are great, please keep them. I'll order what I want at my leisure, not having to flag down a server is a plus. We often make up fun little games to see who has to order the next round. Menus can be surprisingly disgusting if the waitstaff is really busy, I'd rather not touch them and/or lay them on the table.
• pwned1 5y ago
  I love QR code menus because I'm not forced to touch a menu that 100 people before me have touched.
• Tor3 5y ago
  QR codes work fine where I live. I believe problems are due to the implementation, not with the concept. I find it very convenient. Connect to the local wifi, there's no confirmation code, just open wifi (most of the time - some of them have an unnecessary "accept" step. Never any "confirmation code"). Scan. Browse. Choose. Pay, or pay later (convenient, I can adjust the tip before I pay). All in all it's much faster than having to wait for a waiter to come to the table to take the orders. We can add and remove and make up our minds in peace, then just sit down and wait - drinks arrive straight away, the rest later. And we don't have to wait forever to get the bill and to pay. It's all done. In short, to me it's a great improvement. Obviously it wouldn't be if the implementation hadn't been good, but around here it is. Edit - let me add that most places I visit also have a physical menu to look at, it's just that ordering and payment is done via the web browser.
  • karaterobot 5y ago
    To each their own, but that sounds less enjoyable than a traditional restaurant experience to me. As you say in your example, so much depends on the "implementation" in this case too — i.e. is the service at the restaurant good or not — but a talented waiter brings a lot to the table in more ways than one.
    • bhelkey 5y ago
      For me it depends on the type of restaurant. Some restaurants live and die by their ambiance. But others the main draw is the food and/or the price and/or the speed. In that case, I would enjoy having a QR code order option.
  • stronglikedan 5y ago
    > ordering and payment is done via the web browser This still assumes each customer has a phone. I bought an LTE watch so I could leave the distraction of my phone behind while I dine.
• ww520 5y ago
  I like the dining experience while in Japan. Restaurants have kiosks at the entrance taking order and payment. You select the order from the menu and pay right there (cash or CC). The machine prints a ticket and sends the order to the kitchen. You give the ticket to the wait staff. They sit you and begin to bring what’re in the order to you, drinks, appetizers, meals when ready. Simple, efficient, fast, low touch, low tech, and no tip.
• jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 5y ago
  At my local watering hole, I love the new post-COVID ordering process. You scan the QR code, place your order on their website and they bring it straight to your table. IMO as someone who has been a server, it's better for the servers too because they don't have to take orders from customers (the most painful part of the process).
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• Zigurd 5y ago
  It all depends on how well-implemented, or not. For example, Toasttab QR codes on the paper tab work brilliantly. They do not require the restaurant to retool with thousands of dollars of mobile devices for servers. Excellent use of a QR code. As others have pointed out, getting a pdf that does not format well on your smartphone is a disappointing experience, but that is not the fault of the QR code. The problem is in what comes after. You could be able to order from your table via smartphone, but usually you can't because the landing page is a dumb pdf of a paper menu, and the QR code does not include information about which table you are at, and the restaurant systems need human intervention to know when to open a new tab.
• stjohnswarts 5y ago
  I greatly prefer the QR codes and don't really experience issues with them too often. Much better than germ encrusted menus.
• minitoar 5y ago
  IMO the way this implemented at Alpine Inn in Portola Valley using www.toasttab.com is amazing. Being able to sit down and just immediately fire off some drink orders and so on and then close out your tab without having to wait for staff to come around is fantastic.
• willseth 5y ago
  One of the nice things about being at a restaurant is that you get to be away from your digital bullshit and be around other humans who are also not focused on digital bullshit.
• throw7 5y ago
  There's a "restaurant" near me that has app-only ordering (ios/android). There is no on-site kiosk either. It's one of those "dark kitchen" things (I guess) with no wait-staff. I don't get it, but I guess I'm too old to understand.
• djrogers 5y ago
  I hate this as well. When I take my family out for dinner, I'm the only person out of 5 with a phone that can use the digital menus, and often I'd prefer to not even have mine with me (I like to leave my phone at home just wear my watch on date nights with the wife for example). As a result, I always ask for physical menus, and 99% of restaurants are happy to give them to me.
• RandallBrown 5y ago
  > Have you gone to a restaurant with your boomer parents during the pandemic? Have you gone to a restaurant with your boomer parents before the pandemic? They still pull out their phone to use the flashlight or even take photos of the menu so they can zoom in. This piece is bizarre in that they say they don't like something, give a BUNCH of reasons why other people might like it, then just dismiss it entirely because they don't like it.
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• kerng 5y ago
  I think online menus are much better and environmentally friendly than physical ones. Really hope many places just stick with online menu - also allows for quick updates and changes. If navigating there is done via QR code, NFC or some other means is a different question. but QR codes seem to work really well for this sort of thing and even non tech users can easily figure it out.
  • redisman 5y ago
    I don’t even know if serving the menu from a data center on the other side of the country is more environmentally friendly. Besides talk about “high hanging fruit “ if what, a 100 pieces of recyclable paper per restaurant are the environmental issue we should be tackling.
  • pyrale 5y ago
    > but QR codes seem to work really well for this sort of thing and even non tech users can easily figure it out. Good luck explaining that to my grandmother who doesn't own a smartphone.
• nailer 5y ago
  I had a look for startups working on this - not just QR codes and nice looking vertically scrolling menus (rather than paper-formatted PDFs) but analytics, realtime updates etc. Found these guys: https://smartermenu.co.uk/ https://smartermenu.co.uk/ - no affiliation. It just seems like what I'd build.
• dec0dedab0de 5y ago
  I recently went on a date and had to explain to the waiter that we are old, and it's going to take us a while. Which was funny, but I don't have a QR reader on my phone, and I wasn't going to haphazardly install something at a restaurant just to see the whiskey menu. Luckily, my non-technical date had a mainstream phone that came with a QR reader. Using it redirected her to a word doc hosted on a google drive. And there was no link to this word doc on the restaurants official website. If you're going to do QR codes, the menu should be available from the website, there should be a printed url under the QR code, and it should be an actual webpage. Preferably lightweight static html.
• Sevii 5y ago
  Took my grandparents out to lunch last week and they were literally incapable of using the QR codes. Technology has advanced to the point where they can't even read the menus at restaurants because they don't have smartphones. Luckily restaurants have paper menus as backups.
• mastrsushi 5y ago
  To say "bring menus back" isn't forward thinking. Menu's are gross, not all resturants bother to clean them because to do so is a burden on service flow. They're also an uneeded environmental factor. This pandemic was a complete reflection of human laziness. With the technology we're spoiled with, if there's an effortless way to carry better hygiene habits, we should make use of it. So to the author, you can be as bummed as you want watching customers stare down at phones. You can go ahead and paint it as some Orwellian fever dream. I don't want this planet's landfills to load up on slightly cracked Cheesecake factory booklets.
• tonyaiken 5y ago
  I really hate paying with waiter. I have to wait for waiter to come to table and call for bill, wait for the bill to come, wait for waiter to pick up bill and card, wait for waiter to get my card back and then sign. It’s so damn long process. I really love to have the bill ready anytime and pay with my phone or a kiosk on the table and just leave.
• drdeadringer 5y ago
  > One of my family members is in his late 70s, loves dining out, and only owns a flip phone with no internet connectivity. He’s already excluded from much of our increasingly digital society; I remember reading a Sci-Fi short story where the main character was digitally excluded; I forget if this was a criminal sentence or a matter of "backwards living" [no offence to Amish and similar]. I remember a scene where the main character had to interface with a digital menu type of terminal and he couldn't -- either because of ignorance or legal incapability. A child noticed and offered to help him out. For about 15 years I had a flip phone, well into the "everyone has a smart phone now" age. I felt the limitations of no internet, no QR, no this, no that. Phone calls and texts only. I switched after I lost my phone at ... get this ... a Sci-Fi convention. And I waited a year between loss and re-acquiring//upgrading. Yes I got the "You don't have a cell phone?!?" shaming, just as I did the Gibbs flip-phone shaming beforehand. Nowadays I "pass" like normal. Rambling Point Being: This QR Code Menu deal going on... I've encountered it, I don't like it either, I've been able to deal with it only because I lost and replaced a cell phone. One physical menu please. Thank you. Sorry for being an cartoon alien crab and here I am.
• cultofmetatron 5y ago
  Interesting as my startup is going in the opposite direction. WE've embraced QR codes and trying to make the experience of ordering from a menu even better. Unlike these guys, we're working on software that makes the waiter more efficient. You download the phone app and scan the code that the waiter gives you. From there, you have shared list between you and all your friends at the table from which you can send orders directly to the waiter from the app. The customers can hail the waiter and we plan to add direct messaging as well in the future. We've noticed that while some people enthusiastically love the system, its a 50/50 split between those who prefer paying from in our app and those that pay the waiter directly the old fashioned way. We're currently in a few select high profile restaurants in London and hoping to expand soon.
  • squeaky-clean 5y ago
    Wait, you're saying I have to install your app on my phone if I want to view the menu? I find the QR menus annoying, but not a huge deal. But requesting I install an app would get me to ask my group if we could dine somewhere else.
    • cultofmetatron 5y ago
      Totally understand the reservation about using the app. In our case, we're hoping the convenience of being able to call the waiter or order directly from the app at your favorite restaurant will earn its place in your phone. The way we set it up, use of the app is entirely optional. The waiter can still take your orders the old fashioned way. wether they have regular menus as well is up to the restaurant as is the option of everyone paying separately through the app. Our waiter app allows the waiter to take care of everything on his end for those that are opposed enough to downloading another app.
• nyghtly 5y ago
  Regarding the "cashless trend": Isn't this technically illegal in the United States? That is to say, all businesses are obligated to accept U.S. currency as payment, which includes cash.
  • dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Isn't this technically illegal in the United States? Nope. > That is to say, all businesses are obligated to accept U.S. currency as payment No, they aren't. If there is a preexisting debt, the “legal tender” status of currency has some effect especially if there isn't a contracted-for form of payment, but many businesses operate payment-first with no debt created, and those that don’t tend to contractually specify forms of payment.
• Sparkyte 5y ago
  QR code should be to go menus. It looks stupid to sit there flipping through a 5-6 inch screen to identify what food or dish you're looking at. My favorite method put the menu into the table with a glass top. Better than people touching.
• IncRnd 5y ago
  How do you know that the QR code is to the proper website address and not from a flyer placed by the last person at the table (pointing to a malicious website).
• asciimov 5y ago
  I agree, I want paper menus always, but maybe for different reasons. Today it is difficult to go out to eat with friends or family without everybody being on their damned phones. Making people use QR codes just gives them an excuse to get it out to look at the menu, and then check their email while its out, reply to a non-urgent text, and finally might as well look at reddit for a few moments. I want the opposite of this nightmare we live. I want people out of their phones and into discussions. I want their attention, and to give them mine. Phones get in the way of that exchange.
• nanidin 5y ago
  A lot of places I frequent in Kansas City switched to QR codes on tables that redirect to an online menu. I like it - less clutter on the table, no giving back of printed menus, no asking for the drinks menu back when the server comes around for another round, and no asking for the dessert menu at the end of the meal if I'm actually interested in dessert. Another great aspect of the QR code driven menus is that after my meal or drink arrives I still have the menu readily available, so I can check what is in the dish or drink that's in front of me. It's great for foodie restaurants that give lots of description in the menu - before, when the meal came out I would sometimes find myself wondering what that odd shaped component was on my plate, but with a first class phone accessible menu I can get back to the description of what I ordered and figure out what's on my plate, or figure out what might be making my drink taste like bitter orange. I didn't notice how much I liked these things until I recently traveled to Santa Fe, where every place was still using printed menus. One drink menu for a table of five? Let's all pass it around and tell the server to come back in a few minutes after we've had a chance to look one by one. Server took all of the menus after ordering, then comes around after the meal inquiring if we want dessert? I don't know what's on the menu, but I'm not interested in waiting for the server to come back with the menu. I ordered posole as a side, but forgot what the description was? I guess I'll google it...
• vzaliva 5y ago
  As person with poor vision I would love digital menus to stay. I could not count how many times I've struggled to read a badly designed menu in a dim dining room. On my phone it is always bright and I can zoom.
• amerine 5y ago
  I had the most amazing experience at Oregon City Brewing with my good friend as my first post-pandemic drink. They had pretty standard paper menus with drink lists, but the QR code popped up a version that let you pick a few AND PAY using Apple Pay, Google Pay, then you got your drinks delivered by the same friendly waitstaff. It was a great experience and no cash or cards exchanged hands. I think more quick serve/bars should be doing this.
• michaeltimo 5y ago
  when all you have is a QR code ...
• ArcturianDeath 5y ago
  The author says it sufficiently already: "Maybe restaurant owners will welcome the demise of physical menus as a way to eliminate one small but constant expense. Maybe their employees will relish their newfound freedom from the hassle of reprinting menus every time there’s a new seasonal entree on offer. Maybe it will free servers from patrons who always seem to want to order the one dish that’s out of stock. (It can be easily deleted from a digital menu as soon as it runs out.) Maybe diners who already love scrolling on their phones at restaurants will be more than happy to check out the menu there, too. Other customers may be content to touch one less surface that might be stained with food or invisibly smeared with another person’s snot." The rest of it is whiny woman whining
• captainbland 5y ago
  The QR codes are generally an upgrade from queue-to-order type places and a downgrade from human table service. So far I've not seen anywhere that did human table service go to QR codes yet, but maybe I haven't been getting out that much.
• shushpanchik 5y ago
  I was always wondering, how secure are QR code menus? What if someone will quietly put identically looking QR code that would point not to https://coolcafe.xyz/menu/table/5 https://coolcafe.xyz/menu/table/5, but to https://thecoolcafe.xyz/menu/table/5 https://thecoolcafe.xyz/menu/table/5, that is a full copy of the legit site, just with payment form logging CC details and then throwing some vague error and then redirecting to legit site (or even more elaborate scam with proxying all requests to legit site and logging all data)? Should be pretty low-effort and low-risk operation to collect CC details. Clients do not know which site they expect to land on when they scan that QR code.
  • h43k3r 5y ago
    This has already started happening in India where thiefs are replacing QR codes which are stuck outside of a Shop
• Cristian3001 5y ago
  I think it's best to offer both Restaurants can offer QR menu to those who like them AND have more time to pay attention to those who don't.
• leros 5y ago
  I love QR codes. I love the idea of pointing my phone at a QR code and having something open up. I hate how using a QR code actually goes. Unlock my phone. Open the camera app. Swipe to the photo mode in which QR codes work. Aim at the QR code and awkwardly try to tap the hovering URL.
• m-p-3 5y ago
  It's all in the execution. If all the QR code does is send you to a PDF file of the printed version, without any text reflow or responsiveness to the screen size then I agree, it's a terrible experience. If it points to a website properly designed for multiple screen size, and the WiFi works well without too many hassle or a mandatory invasion of privacy (login to Facebbok to access the WiFi network? No thank you), then it can be a great experience. The restaurant should make sure to have at least a couple of printed copies in case someone can't use their phone, if there's a website outage, etc.