24 ms·
Why did bar ends go away from mountain bikes?
- jpm_sd 5y agoI have a "gravel" bike with drop bars [1] and I love it. I ride it on roads and a variety of trails. Doesn't have a suspension, but I don't miss it. Not doing super technical rocky stuff. Having drop bars is great though, I can vary my hand positions quite a bit and I seem to have plenty of steering control. [1] https://www.bikes.com/en/bikes/solo/2019 https://www.bikes.com/en/bikes/solo/2019
- jeffbee 5y agoI ride a Kona Sutra Ltd, also a drop-bar, fat-tire, 1x + disc rig and I love it. It's funny how old the idea is, though. There were CX events in the 1970s where guys were riding drops and fat (for the time) tires, and Gary Fisher was selling a mountain bike with drops before they sold the company, back around 1990. And of course Gary Fisher invented mountain biking on a Schwinn, wearing jeans and a denim jacket, basically giving zero fucks about the kit. The original "riser bar" mountain riders were the people putting BMX bars on Schwinns.
- cbsks 5y agoFYI, "fat tire" generally refers to tires that are at least 3.75in wide. Your bike doesn't quite qualify for that :) That bike looks nice! I am in the process of building a similar looking gravel bike, but with a titanium frame instead of steel. Interestingly, gravel bikes are now starting to have suspension, such as the Cannondale Topstone Lefty and Lauf True Grit. The line between gravel bikes and mountain bikes is getting more and more blurred.
- jeffbee 5y agoWell, “fat” meaning “too big even for motorcycles” is a recent thing. Decades ago a 43-size tire like the Rock ‘n Road raised questions about clearances. Bikes with a fork and brake that could accommodate the size were desirable for off-road use.
- aidenn0 5y agoIf a gravel or all-road bike was an option, it's what I might have purchased when I got my road bike so many years ago. I considered putting drops on a hybrid frame, but that was a lot more work and was living in an apartment with few tools at the time.
- soared 5y agoThe article is actually talking about something different - the 90s style mountain bikes that were precursors to gravel/cyclocross bikes had what is comparable to bullhorn handlebars. Drop bars will never go away :)
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoMaybe I’m too young, but I remember everyone removing the bar ends because they were understood to be undesirable on a mountain bike. I always thought they were installed from the factory to make the bikes appeal to road cyclists who were familiar with road bike geometry and riding style. Like training wheels for road cyclists coming to mountain biking.
- pharmakom 5y agoI love MTB bar ends. They let you adopt a more efficient position for the inevitable road sections between trails.
- elcapitan 5y agoI bought my first MTB in the 90s, and bar ends was something that I bought in addition, they were not standard from the factory. That was before downhill biking became a big thing, geometry was still very classical (triangle, either no suspension or just front wheel) and we were mostly doing more mild uphill/downhill riding on forest roads. The bar ends were helpful for the uphill part, because you could push the bike left-right more easily standing up while pedalling.
- SamBam 5y agoWhy did you find them undesirable (unless for more modern handlebars, for the reasons in the article)? I definitely found them useful for climbing with the old flat handlebars.
- twic 5y agoI have bar-ends, and i find them highly desirable!
- jMyles 5y agoI have a Load 75 (fairly large front-loading cargo bike) with bar ends, and I use them daily. And adore them. Among the reasons mentioned in the article, the only one that fits my use case(s) are increased leverage out of the saddle (the importance of which correlates with the amount of weight out in the front of the bucket). I also use them to overcome positional fatigue, much like road bike riders use drop bars. However, drop bars are less practical on a cargo bike because, depending on the load (which sometimes includes an adult passenger), they can impact the load when sharply angled.
- SavantIdiot 5y agoI think the claim about de-emphasizing climbing is BS. I just looked at Trek, Giant and Specialized websites and -all- of their mtn bikes ditched the front derailleur and use small-rings in the front. If climbing was passe, why the crazy low gearing? Bar-ends were add-ons for at least a decade (late-80's early 90's) before they became standard. They provide better control and stability because the radius/ulna are not crossed like they are in the standard position. I think they disappeared because there was too much risk of hooking another rider (think packs of riders shoulder-to-shoulder grinding uphill), and not enough climbing or stability benefit. Or perhaps aesthetics play more a part of mtnbike design than functionality?
- skeeter2020 5y agoThe size of a chain ring doesn't matter, it's the gear ratio, which are larger than ever, making climbing significantly easier. Front Deraillers were ditched because they're (a) now rednundant to get huge ranges and (b) technically inferior (weight, tuning, etc). Mountain bikers raarely (never?) group together in packs on climbs. Even in an XC race you might get one or two riders but even this is odd on a technical climb. I think it's redundant with wider, riser bars, you can't cover the brakes which you should be at almost all times, and they look terrible.
- jacurtis 5y agoThe new SRAM Eagle drivetrains have insane gear ratios that we couldn’t have dreamed about even 10 years ago. My new Mountain bike has a 5.4:1 gear ratio at its highest setting. Back when riser bars were popular we were happy to have gear ratios of 2:1.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago> I think the claim about de-emphasizing climbing is BS. I agree. Downhill is more popular than it was previously, but it hasn’t displaced regular biking. People doing shuttle runs and lift-served are a tiny minority. Modern bikes climb better than ever. Bar ends were more of a holdover from road biking that quickly went away when everyone realized how undesirable they were on the mountain.
- Steltek 5y agoIf you commute by bike, get them (or a bar-end mirror that sticks out)! They will save your hands in a crash! I have a bike mirror that's structurally like a bar-end. I got right hooked by a driver: he didn't look nor signal, just yanked the wheel while I was in the bike lane next to him. The mirror/bar-end left a dent and then deep scratch all the way down the side of his SUV. That could have been my fingers!
- mumblemumble 5y agoIf you had been holding onto the bar end at the time, it would have been your fingers, wouldn't it?
- C19is20 5y agoUSA right hook?
- Steltek 5y agoCorrect.
- dharmab 5y agoHandguards with wrap-around metal guards are a must on my dirt bike and commuter motorcycle. There is a small chance in an over-the-bars crash I could get a wrist caught in the guard, but this is unlikely and the more common incident I have is either a drop on a loose or cambered surface or hitting something like a bush or low branch and knocking it out of the way in a narrow gap.
- billyt555 5y agoTotally anecdotal but I had a friend in the 90s who fell, landed on his bar end, and had to have an emergency appendectomy.
- mauvehaus 5y agoAlso totally anecdotal: I put my stomach into the uncapped end of a straight bar crashing and got a nice o-shaped bruise for my laziness of not replacing the cap. It isn't just bar ends that'll get you. Fortunately I was going pretty slowly at the time and didn't cause any damage.
- auxym 5y agoCaps are a mandatory safety part. That thing could have cored you.
- natch 5y agoAnd as with so many articles, the reader might ask, what is this thing you are talking about? What is a bar end? I realize a picture of the front of a bike was provided but it looked pretty normal to me, and I see where the bar ends, but that’s not making it any more clear. Gradually through reading between the lines I can get an inkling, but readers deserve a short definition up front, beyond just saying they are an emblematic retro accessory.
- crazygringo 5y agoThis has always been a problem with news aggregation, and it drives me nuts just as much. In this case, if you're an avid brainybiker.com reader, it might not any sense to define the term, any more than a JavaScript blog needs to explain what IE is. Or even link to the IE Wikipedia article (or else every other word would turn into a link). On the other hand, when a story gets picked up by a wider audience, people like you and me don't have a clue what the subject of the article even is. I wish there was some kind of solution to it, but I don't see one. (It's not like authors are given some urgent phone alert that their article from an hour ago, or two years ago, is getting picked up and they ought to add a prefacing paragraph for general readers in the next 5 minutes...)
- PostThisTooFast 5y agoThe solution is to not be lazy and define a term on first use. HN posters love to put obscure abbreviations or proper names in headlines as if everyone is supposed to know what it is. That comes off as douchey and pompous.
- skeeter2020 5y agoWhy do we naturally place this burden on the content creator? Of course they're welcome to optimize or chase more eyeballs however they want, but the idea that the reader has to do some work (or not!) was once accepted but not in the era of limitless access to specialized content.
- natch 5y ago
- Mediterraneo10 5y agoCould handlebar makers’ fear of lawsuits play a role? Bar-ends have to be tightened with much more torque than ordinary grips (8Nm for bar ends, as opposed to 4–5Nm for ordinary grips). However, makers of many popular MTB handlebars don’t want to certify their bars for that much torque, and so they just tell their customers that the bars are not compatible with bar ends.
- yesenadam 5y agoI read the article and comments and still can't work out what the hell bar ends are...
- maxerickson 5y agoThey clamp to the end of the handlebars and provide a grip that is at an angle to the handlebar, and a bit further forward.
- yesenadam 5y agoThank you kind sir! :-)
- soared 5y agohttps://coresites-cdn-adm.imgix.net/dirt_new/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Photoshop-Resize-7.jpg?fit=crop https://coresites-cdn-adm.imgix.net/dirt_new/wp-content/uplo... These are set up wrong, they should be angled more forward. But clear picture nonetheless.
- underseacables 5y agoI really liked the bar ends on my Trek Fuel back in the day. It just felt better pulling myself up a hill.
- ahelwer 5y agoNot currently into mountain biking (I like the current structural integrity of my collarbones tyvm) - have ebikes revolutionized the sport? Seems like they'd increase accessibility by making the hard part (long arduous biking uphill to get to the drop) quite a bit more tolerable. Although as a hiker/climber I do appreciate that putting in real effort makes the payoff all the sweeter.
- skeeter2020 5y agoYes, this is one of the biggest complaints I have with ebikes (though I just try and keep my mouth shut). Rleatively healthy, able-bodied people use ebikes to get into terrain that is way above their pay grade. I love the idea of physically limited people being able to ride offroad, but they are a rare exception to what you normally see.
- guyzero 5y agoThey have revolutionized the sport to the extent that they're banned in some popular mountain bike areas. That said, I think a lot of studies have shown they don't cause any more trail damage than a traditional bike.
- ianhowson 5y agoAt least here in NorCal, it's not trail damage that's the issue. It's: * people riding beyond their ability (too fast, too technical) and getting injured * batteries overheating and stranding the rider somewhere they can't climb out of, requiring heli rescue and risking wildfires I also don't like to be overtaken by someone who isn't suffering as much as I am [1] and it makes me feel bad. [1] Not really, I also ride a road e-bike which strokes my fragile ego.
- dd_roger 5y agoI'm personally convinced that there's no justification for banning eMTBs (or any other negative sentiments toward them really) beside gatekeeping. There's nothing about eMTBs allowing people to venture in more difficult trails than with normal MTBs. Most terrains that are too hard on a normal MTB will be even harder on an eMTB because you loose some agility and the ability to carry the bike over unrideable sections. I often see people complain about "how fast eMTBs go in some climbs, which is dangerous to bystanders". This is the most ridiculous argument, completely unrelated to eMTBs. Regardless of the terrain (uphill, downhill, flat, ...) I always slow down to ~walking speed when passing someone if the trail isn't wide enough to put at least ~1.5 meter between me and them. Meanwhile the same people who complain about eMTBs being dangerous bomb down the hill past hikers at 25+ km/h. Anyway, a long rant to basically say that any argument about speed is only ever relevant if brought up in the context of educating people to be more courteous riders regardless of the bike they ride. Finally, you're orders of magnitudes more likely to be stranded because you punctured and forgot your repair kit (or whatever other damage to your bike that can't be fixed trailside) than due to overheating battery or whatever improbable scenario people come up to justify hating on eMTBs.
- knotduck 5y agoMy first MTB had bar ends but I quickly ditched them after too many snags (uphill and downhill). Riding my 2021 MTB with modern geo and modern bars I'm noticing this same problem. However, the snagging is way more of an issue navigating tight corners and uphill switchbacks. End of the day I'm sure I'm still snagging at a rate on my modern bike as I was with my retro bike but just the sight of bar ends brings back some bad memories.
- globular-toast 5y agoWow, I completely forgot about those! We had them because they looked cool, obviously.
- RosanaAnaDana 5y agoRead the title wrong and thought they meant bar end shifter.. Added bar ends to my hybrid for 'defensive driving' purposes. If you are in an urban/ suburban environment, a set of bar ends that curves over the hands just a touch is killer to protect the hands from trashcans/ cars, other bikes, kids, guys on mopeds. Its like a little hand guard for random whatever. Plus gives you an upright hand position for extra torque if you need to go fast faster.
- thefz 5y agoModerate to high speed contact with tangly vines or brush are enough to warrant a somewhat dangerous tug on the jersey or directly on the skin and consequently a semi-violent jerk to the handlebar. Now multiply that with the hooking power of an aluminum J-shaped tube sticking out of the front of the bike and now you get why bar ends disappeared quite fast from modern mountain bikes.
- tonymet 5y agoAlso worth noting, compared to the 90s, bars are much wider (5+in ) , making it more dangerous: catch more vines and when you catch one, more leverage for a disaster.
- alistairSH 5y agoNot to mention the bikes are WAAAYYYYYYY faster over just about all terrain (suspension design, tire design, etc), and even more so going downhill. Instead of hooking bars at 10mph, you're doing it at 20mph+.
- crispyambulance 5y agoBar-ends are just another place to put your hands for comfort. But you don't _really_ need them even for so-called technical terrain. Cyclocross bikes with wider-than-usual traditional drop bars (like on a road bike) are used all the time in "pee-your-pants" terrain. To be fair, I would say riding "on the hoods" in a traditional drop bar is superior to using bar-ends on a flat bar both in terms of control (because you have immediate access to brakes and shifters), and comfort (you have padding from the tape and hoods).
- bmj 5y agoIt is worth noting that there is a lively sub-culture within the MTB scene (at least in the U.S.) that favor "non-traditional" bar designs. Jeff Jones' bar design[0] has become a favorite for bike packers and recreational cyclists. The bar permits a more natural wrist position than the typical riser bar, as well as multiple hand positions. I doubt the design will ever overtake risers (or sweep bars) on the race circuit (which, for better or for worse influence design for most major brands), but I see more and more bikes on the trail with a Jones (or Jones-like) bar. [0] https://www.jonesbikes.com/h-bars/ https://www.jonesbikes.com/h-bars/
- et-al 5y agoYeah, for longer distances, multiple hand positions are nice for recruiting different muscles (hence the traditional popularity of drop bars for touring). It's interesting the author of the article didn't mention bar-ends returning in the form of inner bar-ends: https://www.sq-lab.com/en/products/innerbarends/sqlab-innerbarends-411.html https://www.sq-lab.com/en/products/innerbarends/sqlab-innerb... Due to MTB handlebars getting extremely wide, having something narrower and in a vertical wrist position helps change things up. Especially if one is riding miles on gentle terrain. Also, endurance riders like Lael Wilcox, who's won the Trans-Am and Tour Divide, are now mounting aerobars, normally found on tri-bikes, on their bikepacking bikes for both aero benefits and to rest the muscles.
- wiredfool 5y agoIn the 90s I had these funky Scott mountain aero bars that had the typical mountain straight section, a good bar end like extension, then they looped back around to meet in the center for the front part of the aero bars. Forearm cups and all. Don’t remember what they were called, but I wonder if they’ll come back into style.
- et-al 5y agoButterfly bars? I think most folks can't get past the aesthetics.
- mpermar 5y agoNow I miss my 90s cheap MTB. I remember me as a teenager buying and setting up the bar ends. It felt so cool. For a kid it was like the ultimate performance improvement. But well, right, they were so 90s. That wouldn't really fit at all with the current super posh MTBs out there.
- epx 5y agoI knew I became old when I purchased my last MTB and upgraded it with bar ends :)
- charles_f 5y agoOne thing I love about this post: you read the grey tldr; and you get 80% of the gist and the main idea. This optimizes for the reader rather than for the author's ego. Too often authors try to keep suspens up and make for a big reveal at the end. This format instead conveys information and then develop on it if you want more. Good job!
- benatkin 5y ago> Lower awareness. Aside from some alternative shapes, bar ends do not increase the width of the handlebars. However, bar ends come with another severe downside – they are not covered by nerve endings (the rider’s hands) most of the time because one cannot shift or brake from that position. I found this part interesting. When playing ping pong I'm certainly aware of where the paddle is. I guess I could be aware of where the bar ends are, but there isn't nearly as much to train me to be aware. I think my awareness of where my fingers are, which sometimes extends into connected objects, is based on where the nerve endings are, because over time it creates spatial awareness.
- yread 5y agoI got a road bike for commuting (Giant Rapid) with bar ends 10 years ago and it felt really useful, you could get lower when grabbing them reducing air resistance (big deal in this flat windy country) and they've protected my hands a few times from accidents
- TacticalCoder 5y agoI just bought a friend's (used) Specialized StumpJumper FSR Carbon whatever-thinggy and it doesn't have the bar ends, which saddens me, so I'm adding some immediately. The thing is: even if it's a mountain bike, there's some moments where I'm riding on a regular, flat, land (path or road) and I do really prefer to have the bar ends then. If I find it way more comfortable: doesn't even have to be for climbing. Just anything that's not "going down" and a bit repetitive: I simply prefer the position with the bar ends. The argument I've heard against them is indeed what several people mentioned in this thread: you wouldn't want one of the bar ends to hook something and be the cause of a bad fall.
- CountDrewku 5y agoYou bought a bike that's meant to go through gnarly technical terrain and do it as fast as possible. Bar-ends are a hazard. If you're actually planning on mountain biking with it you'll get laughed at because no serious biker uses them. I realize what other people think about you isn't that important but seriously they provide zero benefit for actual mountain biking. I would recommend you just get a commuter or road bike for paths and roads. It'll faster and more enjoyable than riding something that was built explicitly for off-road use. The weight difference alone makes it worth it.
- lazydud 5y agoThe reason is that your hand position is supposed to be 1 finger on the brakes ready to stop with the other 4 fingers trying to hold on to dear life. There would be no reason to have the hands in that ergonomic position. Having a extra flipping over liability on the bike just makes no sense for bikes that are "specialized" for this niche style of riding. The stumpjumper is like the McLaren of the mtb world. It'd be like complaining about how uncomfortable the bucket seats and race harness is and saying the first thing to do is to replace them with a comfy heated seat with lumbar support. I mean, you can, but there's a reason the McLaren comes with those things
- ogre_codes 5y agoBar ends were never very popular. Maybe 5-10% of riders used them. I don’t think a single manufacturer adopted them in a shipped from the factory setup.
- RankingMember 5y agoMany of the big mountain bike makes of the day (1990s) included bar ends, Specialized and Trek among them.
- fiftyacorn 5y agoI remember it being because they were dangerous on group rides and on more technical routes. I seem to remember they were also banned in racing - so no incentive for manufacturers
- vondur 5y agoThey look goofy. I ditched mine in the late 90’s. Bars now are much wider than they used to be during the heyday of bar ends.
- ghostly_s 5y agoI still see bar-ends all the time...on mountain bikes being used as commuters in the city, which I suspect is the majority of the "mountain bike" market, at least if you include 2nd-hand sales. They're still an obvious ergonomic upgrade for people who are just riding a mtb for the more upright posture or (...perceived) ability to handle poorly-maintained city streets.
- abfan1127 5y agoI used to want bar ends for my mtb. It was mostly related to fatigue in my lower back. it was only recently my hip angle was the cause. Instead of pivoting my hips for a more neutral back posture, I was hunching over. As soon as I adjusted my hips it felt so much better.
- 762236 5y agoI use drop bars on my commuter bike. The only advantages I can think of for flat bars are a safer hand-on-brake position, and more reliable shifters (drop-bar brifters have to route cables around tiny pulleys, causing the cables to fray too quickly). Drop bars are comfortable for all-day riding.
- adamhorne 5y agoBar ends are a lifesaver! I got pretty bad RSI a few years ago and anything I did where my palms are down meant pins and needles in my arms. And as a cyclist, I quickly learned drop bars were best - but when I wanted to mountain bike, drop bars were the difference between being able to do it, and not. A vertical mouse also helped (at work).
- Gravityloss 5y agoThe very wide bars are something that's really impractical if you're using the bike for commuting. You are close to hitting pedestrians and other cyclists. And especially if you live in an apartment building and store the bike in the cellar with other bikes, it takes so much space and is annoying to retrieve and store. There's a reason why the fixie people have really narrow handlebars. I understand the control is good on snow and ice though with studded tires and suspension.
- midnightclubbed 5y agoMore importantly that bar ends is the comment "Today, you have a higher chance of seeing a bell on a modern mountain bike than a set of bar ends"... If there is one thing every MTB rider should have on their bike it is a bell. With trail usage way up having a bell is not just a curtesy to other bikers/hikers but an important safety feature. Big fan of the Timber bell, but anything that lets other trail user know you are approaching works just fine. And anyone who is out on the trails with headphones... you still won't hear a bike bell, but then you won't hear a rattle-snake either.
- yarcob 5y agoI definitely prefer a bicycle bell to getting yelled at from behind. But you know what would be even nicer? If bikers had the curtesy to slow down a bit when the trail / path is crowded. I also love riding fast. I understand that crowded paths are annoying. But when I see that the path is full of people, I don't start ringing my bell, or hollering "on your left" or "attention" at the people in front of me, I just slow down. There is no curteous way to pass someone with delta V of 15km/h on a narrow path. If I want to ride fast, I pick a time when the paths aren't crowded. I don't understand why everyone wants to race their bikes on multi use paths on a sunny afternoon at 3PM when everyone else is outside too. Try riding eg. Saturday at 7AM and you'll have the world to yourself and you can go as fast as you like.
- dahart 5y agoMost people seem to be curteous already where I ride. There are always a few people giving us all a bad name, but I'm seeing growing awareness of good behavior, and of better signage, at the same time that crowds are increasing. Good to keep in mind that crowds are growing and MTB popularity is growing, because it means that good behavior may be on the rise faster than it seems unless you pay attention to and notice how many people aren't being pushy. That said, I have an always-on bell that rings as I ride over bumps. I like it for multiple reasons - for one bikers hear me coming for a long time, and know that I'm not going agro right behind them. For two, hikers and dog-walkers appreciate hearing it from far away, and often thank me for it.
- 5y ago
- DebtDeflation 5y agoThere are lots of alternatives to flat bars in the MTB world. Moloko bars, Jones H bars, Velo Orange Crazy bars, etc.
- jrochkind1 5y agorandom pet peeve: > A set of riser bars that I purchased a while back. They are 810mm (or 5 piano octaves) by default. I plan to cut them down to at least 740mm for a future project. They are already "at least 740mm", being 810 mm, which is more than 740. You mean "at most".
- frosted-flakes 5y agoIn this case, he's saying cut them down to at least 740 mm [or smaller—implied]. The usage is correct.
- jrochkind1 5y agoThe LEAST is the smallest. The word "least" means "smallest" At least, at the least, at the smallest. "at least": Not less than, at the minimum. It doesn't make sense for "at least" to mean "or smaller than". It literally means "or bigger than". You can say instead: I plan to cut them down to at most 740mm for a future project. I suppose you could say "I plan to remove at least 20mm".
- frosted-flakes 5y agoI think "at least" refers to how much they'll cut off ("cut them down"), not the resultant size, even if they specified the resultant size. Similar to "it was at least -40° outside last winter". The implied direction means -40° or colder, even though colder temperatures are lower. Of course, English is a flexible language. What you suggest as an alternative is not necessarily wrong, but to me it feels awkward. The intended meaning is obvious either way.
- jrochkind1 5y agoRight, "at least -40 outside" also does not make any sense at all. "At most -40 outside" would. Or else, how can "at least -40" and "at most -40" mean exactly the same thing, when "least" and "most" are antonyms?
- jmspring 5y agoI still have one bike with bar ends. A single speed mountain bike. I use the bar ends (plus clipped in pedals) for leverage when climbing. My other full suspension bikes are all large handle bar, no bar ends.
- m463 5y agoI don't see any direct comment about bar ends and ergonomics. Going from a road bike to a mountain bike is hard because you get basically ONE body position with a flat bar. On my road bike I constantly change positions - on the center of the bar, on the hoods, on the drops, etc. This lets my back and shoulders move around and not get stiff. On a mountain bike with a flat bar, it kills my back and shoulders the more time spent riding. You're stuck in one position. You can alleviate it a little bit by moving around on the saddle or standing up, but not too much. But bar ends help with this shortcoming.
- haspok 5y agoWell, on a MTB you are changing your position _all the time_. Regardless of your handlebar setup. You move your body around, up and down (you have a dropper seatpost, of course), fore and aft, left and right. If you don't do this, you aren't actually "mountain biking". Maybe riding fireroads? That's fine, but you don't need an MTB for that.
- m463 5y agoI can't imagine many scenarios I could ride that would fit your description, other than going to a closed course track. Most places I've ridden included a large amount of "getting to" and "getting back from" that was on-the-seat riding.
- gkanai 5y agoI remember in the 90's there used to be a replacement bar for mountain bikes that was sort of like a long oval with one portion in the middle that, once installed, pointed forward. So it provided multiple new hand positions. I haven't seen that in years.
- analog31 5y agoWhere I've mostly seen bar ends is on bikes with MTB style bars, including hybrids, being used on pavement. I also see a lot of people trying to make straight bars comfortable in other ways, e.g., with their palms cupped around the ends of the bar, or fists resting on top of the grips. Granted, it's probably a matter of every rider having different requirements, and you can eventually find a bar that's comfortable and performant for your body and riding conditions. But that means trying out different bars, having to remove all of the controls, possibly lengthening the cables, etc. Or you can add a simple accessory that will at least provide a resting position, that can be attached with minimal tools and effort. In my own case I ended up with swept bars on all of my bikes. Even a moderate amount of sweep, and the resulting change in wrist angle, is night and day for me in terms of long term comfort.
- moab 5y agoReading about bar-ends made me think about the Brompton P-type, which (alas!) Brompton recently discontinued: https://www.bikefolded.com/brompton-s-m-p-h-type-handlebar-differences/ https://www.bikefolded.com/brompton-s-m-p-h-type-handlebar-d...
- tchvil 5y agoMountain Bike geometry has changed, they have a longer reach, the stem are shorter, and bars wider for a better leverage. Bar ends would put your arm too wide to be useful. But maybe the real reason is if you ride with bar ends today, chances are you and your bike are old already, you have a front derailleur, no tubeless tires, no disc brakes unfortunately being part of a population that is going slowly but certainly extinct. For marathons though they offered a change of hand position. But their modern version comes as smaller hooks for the thumbs.
- SECProto 5y agoNot a mountain biker but: I (and many people I know) ride road bikes older than we are. I've got a Norco from the early 80s, friends ride similar age or older Peugeot and Raleigh. Chromoly that is pretty light and feels great and can take a beating. Newer isn't always better - especially for those who are time-rich but money-poor. Old bikes can be maintained with a minimum of parts - grease, new bearings, brake pads, tired/tubes and one new chain are all the parts I've had to replace on my 38 year old bike in the last fifteen years. Touched up scratches with almost-matching nail polish. And I've learned everything about how a bike works along the way.
- tnorthcutt 5y agoFWIW, mountain bike technology has advanced an enormous amount over the past 20 years as compared to road bike technology. Granted road bike technology has advanced a lot too, but most of the benefit there is in weight reduction. Mountain bike technology has advanced in weight reduction as well, but suspension technology is orders of magnitude better than 20-30 years ago. Modern mountain bikes are incredibly advanced and they're loads of fun to ride (and I say that as someone riding a bike designed about 10 years ago).
- comprev 5y agoBikes have got much bigger too. Earlier this year I bought my first 29er (Production Privee Shan No.5) and it's way bigger than my 26er bikes. It makes my DH bike (224) look small!
- AdamN 5y agoAnybody tried bar ends on a Peloton? I find that when the instuctor wants you out of the saddle there's not enough resistance to merit the change. This might be because I ride high in the saddle and focus on consistent cadence using the up motion from the clipless pedals.
- CountDrewku 5y agoBecause they're ugly and most importantly they provide basically no benefit for mountain biking. If you're doing something like gravel riding or road riding then yes they're nice but you typically have drop bars on those bikes. Having a big silly piece of metal sticking forward on your bars while you're trying to speed down a steep techy piece of single track is just asking to get hurt. It'd be as dumb as putting a kickstand on your mountain bike. The only reason they used to be there is because mountain biking was so new it hadn't completely separated from the roadie culture. Older mountain bikes have skinny tires, narrow bars, long stems etc. All of this stuff has been proven to make downhill riding harder and less enjoyable.
- burnte 5y ago>Having a big silly piece of metal sticking forward on your bars while you're trying to speed down a steep techy piece of single track is just asking to get hurt. It'd be as dumb as putting a kickstand on your mountain bike. Been mountin biking for 35 years, I have a kickstand on my bike. What argument against them is there?
- PascLeRasc 5y agoRespectfully speaking, I think we’re talking about different kinds of mountain biking.
- burnte 5y agoRespectfully speaking, that doesn't answer my question. We may be talking different kinds, true, I tend to go far enough that I'll absolutely need to stop and rest before heading back. Maybe you're just on short jaunts where stopping isn't needed?
- zucked 5y agoThe wave of MTB that we're currently in is loosely based on lots of things, but two major shifts have happened in the last 10-ish years. * the geometries of bikes have changed dramatically. Bikes are longer, with slacker headtubes, longer reaches and steeper seattubes. 29" wheels are finally being crowned as "the" standard, with 27.5 and 26" wheels being relegated to speciality bikes. *The style of riding has shifted from XC, where distance and ups/downs are to be expected, to more Enduro-style, where you go up to go down. The downs are what your bike is oriented to do. The downs are also getting more 'extreme' in the sense that you're seeing lots more flow/jump trails or simply highly technical sections. Kickstands are not used (I haven't seen one affixed to a modern MTB in a decade or more) because they're heavy, they're a moving part, and most of the routes I ride they'd be an annoyance. They might be useful for you, but you're not going to find any manufacturer touting them as standard equipment (or even compatible) today.
- joelcollinsdc 5y agoI thought it was about not catching trees on the bar end? The new wide bars can deflect and recover a lot easier.
- exabrial 5y agoI mountain bike 5x days a week during season. As much as I wreck and eat shit, I would _not_ want to land on those!
- dockd 5y agoI think it's a due to a combination of things. First MTBs went from flat bars to riser bars as front and then rear suspension appeared. Then the bars got wider. I have memories of the bike magazines (Mountain Bike Action) declaring the bar end on a riser bar a style no-no. MTB takes style direction from motorcross and you don't see bar ends on motors. I've hooked my new 760mm bars on far more trees than my old narrow ones. While the idea of catching a bar end sounds frightening, think about what would happen without a bar end: the same thing. You'd hit the bars or your knuckles and get the same result. I do miss the extra hand position sometimes. I installed a pair of Togs (https://togs.com https://togs.com) to help with "thumbs resting over the bar".
- Fezzik 5y agoI did a ton of mountain biking in the late 90s and early 2000s, after years of BMX racing, and one reason myself (and at least a few friends) stopped using bar-ends is because we kept injuring ourselves on them - they had to be constantly tightened or they would come loose while climbing or going downhill. I know more than one person that wrecked a wrist after a bar-end popped off and exposed the sharp metal edge of a handlebar. I also biked with crazy people, so that was probably issue #1.
- nimchimpsky 5y agoI mtb'd for years, everyone had a bar ends - I still do. Not had a single accident with them/caused by them. Wtf are you doing ?
- TwoBit 5y agoThe article has only a single sentence on it, but bar ends are illegal in racing, because they can gouge you and because they can hook on things.
- markmark 5y agoFrom UCI mtb race regs 4.1.040 [1]: "During MTB races no traditional road handlebars may be used. Clips-on extensions are forbidden but traditional barends are authorized." If races you race in ban bar ends it's a local rule. [1] https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/2021.01.18--mtb-en-left-column---egi.pdf https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulation...
- philliphaydon 5y agoI wasn't aware bar-ends were accessories! When I had my mountain bikes as a teenager, they were welded on so there was never any movement.
- Fezzik 5y agoIn the mid-to-late 90s, in hindsight, they were horribly dangerous. Usually each bar-end had an under-engineered tension system that was tightened with a single screw, or two small screws, everything metal on metal and prone to loosening as you rattled up and down trails. To add to that danger, we were installing these all ourselves, so there was likely some WD—40 on the handlebars from when we first put our grips on. All around a lot of poor decisions were made. Probably not a universal thing, but that’s how everyone I knew put their bikes together.
- chrisweekly 5y agoOn buying my new MTB (a Specialized Stumpjumper), the 1st thing I did was trim 3/4" off each end of the bar, and add bar-ends. Trends come and go. IMHO the current "wider is better" fashion took it too far, the default bar felt like it was 3 feet wide. (shrug)
- outside1234 5y agoThey also "hooked" bushes and tree branches etc. which is "not a good thing" at speed and the reason why I dropped them.
- mdoms 5y agoThis is covered in the article.
- jonplackett 5y agoStill got my bar ends! They are not going anywhere, except up a hill slightly faster than I would otherwise be going up it.
- nateburke 5y ago"mountain biking" for me as a teenager in New England in the 90s was taking my hard-fork, hard-tail univega out for a ride on a dirt road under some power lines, with 2-3 other kids. The idea of lift-served downhill biking never crossed our minds. You needed suspension to do any real woods singletrack because the roots and rocks were too numerous. But suspension put the price of a decent bike closer to 1000 bucks rather than <500 and four digits seemed to be a bridge too far for most of our parents' huffy-anchored understanding of "bicycle cost" let alone budget in the 90s. So we bought bar ends for 30 bucks of saved up lawn mowing cash and told ourselves that they helped for climbs.
- hcurtiss 5y agoSame story. Bought a rigid Rockhopper XC in 1993 as an eighth grader with $400 of summer wages. Started life as an off road machine, but converted to an after-school work commuter, then a college commuter, then a law school commuter, then a law firm commuter. Thousands and thousands of miles. At some point it lost its bar ends, along with most of the original drivetrain. Now that I live outside of town, it sees less action. So does its owner. My mid-section tells me I should get back on the nearly 30 year old bike hanging in my garage.
- antattack 5y agoIn case someone is wondering what is a bar end: https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycletouring/comments/ae657i/bar_ends_for_comfort/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycletouring/comments/ae657i/bar_...
- mmazing 5y agoYes ... would have been nice to have some sort of explanation for what they actually are (and what the differences between all the "ends" are).
- japhyr 5y agoI did a cross-country ride in the 90s on a mountain bike, and I ended up putting bar ends on my bar ends. I liked the strength of a mountain bike for the occasional gravel road, but I needed to get hunched over for long days with steady headwinds. I ended up using the first bar ends for climbing, and the second bar ends for tucking into a wind. I'd never trust those second ends with any vertical force though. These days, I'd just do that kind of trip on a well-specced gravel bike.
- matt_j 5y agoBar-ends are mounted in the handlebar tube by friction alone. On any decently bumpy trail, they have a pretty good chance of twisting (forwards and down) and you could hit the handlebars with your face. They are useful for one of the reasons curved bars are useful on a road bike, it's a change of position to give you a rest, and potentially a better climbing position but I doubt it. I had bar ends on my bike in high school 'cause they were cool but I've ridden cross country and downhill MTB for a couple of decades now and bar-ends are not something I would consider adding to my bike.
- ineedasername 5y agoAre friction mounts ever a good idea for critical applications?
- matt_j 5y agoPerhaps not, but you don't have a lot of options on a handlebar. You could drill holes and bolt it I guess. I think they are OK for gravel tracks but if you are taking big bumps it's gonna be an issue, and modern MTB is all about big bumps 'cause we have suspension now <3
- gorgoiler 5y agoA core part of the Mint Sauce aesthetic: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/f4/3a/0ef43a1d3656587beaef5edb7fa2c8ed.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/f4/3a/0ef43a1d3656587beaef... ...a cult cartoon sheep and his friends from the most popular UK mountain bike magazine in the 1990s.
- cormacrelf 5y agoThis whole post could have been just two pictures. But no, it only includes one picture, of bar ends, not what they’ve been replaced with. I guess I’ll never know.
- itomato 5y agoDepending on who you ask, the whole ergonomic bar category replaced bar ends. Sheldon Brown wrote about them: "These are mountainbike/hybrid bars with built-in bar ends. They weigh less than the handlebars alone on the typical mountain bike or hybrid, and they give lots of hand positions. The ends sweep forward in a nearly 180 degree curve, and the whole curved area is usable to vary the pressure points on your hands. These are much better than staight bars with bolt-on bar ends." https://www.sheldonbrown.com/scott.html https://www.sheldonbrown.com/scott.html Personally, I have enjoyed riding the AT-4 Pro for a decade: http://www.bikepro.com/products/handlebars/scott_combo.shtml http://www.bikepro.com/products/handlebars/scott_combo.shtml
- mod 5y agoThey didn't get replaced. You can read why in the article.
- clajiness 5y agoTrees.
- hellbannedguy 5y agoMy first mountain bike was a Fisher mountain bike. I got a wholesale deal Gary Fisher mountain bikes because my mother was dating the bookkeeper. (It was just called Marin Mountian bikes back then.) Gary Fisher and Charlie Kelly decides to build mountain bikes. This was in 1979? Well both were roommates, who loved bicycles, and loved the outdoors Both got started on old Schwinn frames tricked out with knobby tires, and such. They used an old WW2 truck to take a bunch of guys up Mount Tamalpais, and other Fairfax mountains. The main trail down Mt. Tam was called Repac. Why? Because they needed to regrese the rear bearings after a decent. Well the roommates decided to build mountain bikes, and formed a company. Both were liberal, and were I guess called hippies back then. Neither knew if people would even like moutan biking. Gary had some money. Charlie was the fabricator, and inventor. Both had their strong points, but Charlie was the talent. By the eithties, the business was not thriving. I used to walk by it in high school, and was suprised it was still operating. I loved my mountian green bike though. One day Charlie decided to leave the business. He just left. I believe their was a fight? Charlie was never about money. Fisher stayed, and a bit later sold the business to a huge bike company. Fisher is now a multimillionaire. It was luck. It was just the right time, and he stuck it out. My point in telling this story us don't walk out on any new business. Don't walk unless you really don't care about money. Charlie was not about the green. I have always admired the way he lived his life. Mountian biking was started in Fairfax Ca, by about a 12 guys who loved to ride. I tell this story because Charlie always gets left out of mountian biking history. Again--Charlie was the talent.
- pharmakom 5y agoNow that the Fischer brand is owned by a big bike company (Trek? Specialized?) they have an interest in pushing that narrative. They even made a book about the invention of Mountain bikes with Fischer in the title!
- sundvor 5y agoYeah it's Trek now. Gary Fisher was one of the first big ones to go heavy on the 29ers, back when 26" was still the norm. Boy did I feel a bit special on my Hi-fi duallie 11 years ago. :) Still have this bike today, they're built to last.
- kybernetyk 5y ago>The usual buyers are people who want to add another hand position to their handlebars due to joint discomfort and numbness. My eBike comes with barends and I love them for this reason. (Funnily my eBike is an eMTB with full suspension - so according to the article it shouldn't have bar ends).
- medium_burrito 5y agoOlder demographic, less climbing. Same reason why racy xc geometry went away.
- geocrasher 5y agoIn the mid-2000's I commuted on a late 80's Specialized Rockhopper. For reliability and simplicity in all weather/temperatures, I had a custom wheel built with fixed gears (17/19T) and ran 1.75" 26" semi-slicks with kevlar built in. That thing was a tank. TANK. I only had one bad wreck on it. I was in traffic and all the cars were backed up. For better or worse, I was in the shoulder and filtering toward the stoplight when I saw a car 2-3 cars ahead in the shoulder. I was deciding what to do when my handlebar bumped the mirror of a car to my left. Just barely. The car was fine. I broke my left hand somehow in the melee and landed hard on my right shoulder and elbow, skidding several feet. Was I using bar ends? No. I had got rid of them and was using what's often called a "trekker" bar or "butterfly" bar. The width is what killed me. I would have been better off on my narrow bars and the bar ends, which are still shown on FGG: http://fixedgeargallery.com/2006/feb/RyanFlowers.htm http://fixedgeargallery.com/2006/feb/RyanFlowers.htm Of course it's understandable that nobody wants them on new bikes. The reasons given are solid.
- tobr 5y ago> The width is what killed me. A broken hand and falling hard on your shoulder sounds terrible, but did you really die?
- geocrasher 5y agoLOL touché
- giuliomagnifico 5y ago29” and 27,5” new wheels necessitate longer handlebars in order to have more steering angle at low speed, so larger handles make less useful the bar ends. Plus the new XC circuits are more nervous and you have less time to put your hands in a more relaxed position on the bars ends, you always need to touch the brakes/gears
- Fnoord 5y agoDutch native here. As a casual user (school, commute, etc) I owned 3 MTBs in my life. One I bought second hand, other two new (1 of which got stolen). The former was a lower quality one, the other two certainly had bar ends. And I liked and used them. I never used a helmet, except when I went on survival hiking. That was in the Ardennes, and was all pro material though I don't remember regarding bar ends. I am actually in disbelief about them disappearing. What is the source? Where is the data based on?
- MarkusWandel 5y agoI may have missed this in the existing discussion, but one thing that bar ends and the briefly fashionable aero bars (I even saw them on mountain bikes occasionally) have in common is that you have to move your hands to access brake levers. In a panic stop situation you simply don't have time for that. The bar ends were for hard climbs, and the aero bars for time trials. Not for general riding. Luckily both have gone out of fashion.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]