24 ms·

Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

500 points by bananicorn 6y ago

merb 6y ago
I still miss thunderbold on the ryzen mobile laptops. I still hope that tb4 changes things.
bgorman 6y ago
Shipping 1080p panels in a high end laptop was a non-starter in 2016.
- neogodless 6y ago
  I prefer them. Either my opinion is wrong, or your blanket statement is wrong.
  - apahwa 6y ago
    why do you prefer 1080?
    - stagger87 6y ago
      Longer battery life and no app scaling issues (on the apps I use)
    - precurse 6y ago
      I prefer it since 1080p takes less resources to drive, therefore gets better battery life. On a 14" display, I think 1080p looks more than fine. If I want a hidpi display, I'll just dock to an external display.
    - neogodless 6y ago
      My eyesight is not great. The higher resolution screen is wasted on me, and wastes computing / energy resources to drive it. I enjoy gaming on my laptop, and prefer native resolution gaming. I require a high refresh rate due to post-concussion syndrome. So sure, if that can be the case with a higher resolution that's fine, but that isn't the norm yet. (2021 seems to be the year for QHD 165Hz though!) I'm in no way saying QHD or 4K isn't ideal for anyone. It's just silly to say that "this option I don't want is a non-starter" as if it applies to everyone.
      - mrec 6y ago
        Same here. I (old fogey) use a 1080p 24" monitor with my desktop, and don't feel any particular need for more.
  - kensai 6y ago
    Sometimes I wish there was the possibility to see the exact number of upvotes or downvotes a response got here in HN in order to settle the numbers of such opinions (pro and contra).
    - gostsamo 6y ago
      There are hn polls.
  - unethical_ban 6y ago
    I'll play this game. Reasons to like lower resolution screens: * Concerns about power * Concerns about HiDPI issues / fractional scaling, esp. with Linux * Likes seeing pixels * Price
- bluedino 6y ago
  Not such a big deal because highdpi is finnicky in Linux in 2021 (as long as it is a high-quality panel). Lenovo has shipped some atrocious 1080 panels in the past.
  - opan 6y ago
    Works well on Wayland from what I've heard.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      Works great, if you happen to have resolution that is usable with integer scaling. If you need fractional scaling, only native Wayland applications work well. X11 applications are going to be upscaled and look blurry. Today, Chrome, all Electron apps, Jetbrains tools still do not support Wayland, though at least for Chrome/Electron the support is on the way.
- sagolikasoppor 6y ago
  Totally disagree, you won't see much of a difference in such a small screen anyway and the battery life is way better. I have a 4k monitor on my laptop but I regret that choice.
- ObscureScience 6y ago
  I would have love something like 2160 × 1440 (3:2 aspect ratio), but then they'd likely not have included a numpad.
- dgellow 6y ago
  I completely agree. I will never go back to 1080p and a 16/9 ratio. 3/2 is the best ratio ever when writing code (after 4/3, but that’s definitely dead).
- hu3 6y ago
  For me and my tired eyes, no laptop screen comes close to the real deal which is a large ultrawide monitor. So it might as well come with 1080p which has better battery life and no application scaling issues on Linux.
- jerf 6y ago
  I don't mind the resolution per se but am a bit concerned about what sort of panel it is. There are some bad cheap panels out there.
mattl 6y ago
I like my System76 desktop but I've had plenty of issues with their laptops, and I really dislike a numpad on a laptop.
- sgc 6y ago
  I love my numpad.
  - aendruk 6y ago
    Try putting it under the home row with a modifier key. I won’t go back. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NBBq9vHufU9a6d59irhRcVptjKaOeO7b6vXX_0rqi3Q/edit#gid=1145935278 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NBBq9vHufU9a6d59irhR...
- opan 6y ago
  Seconding the numpad thing. I wish laptops would come with something like a 50% ortholinear mechanical keyboard in them.
- simias 6y ago
  given the size of the unit it makes sense to have a numpad, no? What would you put instead?
  - bdefore 6y ago
    i'd prefer wider more forgiving typing targets of the keys i use
  - Sunspark 6y ago
    Most offices don't allow people to put pictures or personal effects on their hotel desks anymore so perhaps one could have a little LCD panel there displaying pictures of one's loved ones, or the cat not eating salad.
  - wheels 6y ago
    I don't like having my hands off-center. I assume I'm not alone there. Among other things, it causes amplified wrist pain.
geophile 6y ago
I have a 2-yeard old Darter Pro, which has an Intel CPU. Love it, great laptop. Can someone comment on the pros and cons of the Ryzen CPU? Wondering how to compare the new machine to the Intel-based System76 laptops.
mdoliwa 6y ago
How does it compare to Lenovo Thinkpad L15? As I understand there is no problem with running latest Linux on it, and currently I'm thinking about buying it (mostly Rails development + docker). Do you recommend any other machine?
mikepurvis 6y ago
I feel like battery life could be a challenge too, at 49 Wh. The M1 Macbooks have a 58 Wh battery, but they also benefit from being not-x86 and having better power management at the OS level. Dell XPS laptops with discrete graphics ship 97 Wh.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mbackson 6y ago
You're welcome guys. I'd been considering whether to wait for one of these or buy something else. After just putting in an order for a Darter Pro, of course this immediately becomes available!
sinistersnare 6y ago
Why aren't there any bold laptop manufacturers? This is a 2021 laptop that uses USB-A primarily, a meh panel, and no particular standout design features. Why do I have to get a mac if I want actually good design? System76 should take a risk and truly make an interesting laptop. leaving the standard, boring design to the big name companies.
- s_dev 6y ago
  I would imagine part of the explanation is that Apple is a trillion dollar company and System76 is a million dollar company.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Wohlf 6y ago
  If you want something like a Mac there are plenty of options. Off the top of my head there's Lenovo Yoga, Dell XPS, and Microsoft Surface.
  - nobleach 6y ago
    I've grown to love my Dell XPS (with Linux). It definitely has some rough edges. Dell shipped what I consider a faulty machine. The trackpad is wobbly/bouncy. I had a tech come out to replace it, but he ended up having to send it to "the depot" due to a screw being sheared. I hadn't touched the screw. The depot returned it to me with a missing/broken case LED, unplugged speakers and one WiFi antenna that won't seat. Even still, the machine is beautiful. Even the fingerprint reader works in Linux. I use the heck out of it and battery life is quite good. Also, I upgraded my RAM to 32G and my SSD to 512G. This thing also has another M.2 slot just in case I want to put another SSD into it.
- zucker42 6y ago
  System76 doesn't design their own laptop hardware, as far as I know.
  - 6y ago
piokoch 6y ago
Is this system better than, say, Lenovo Legion 5 or HP Envy, they have similar price, are those System76 laptop offer better build quality, etc?
- samstave 6y ago
  I have owned multiple S76 machines - the machine was built by Clio? The guts were good, but the case was chintsy. I had four of these laptops - and on ALL 4 they would have screws come loose and fall out inside the case. You could hear it rattling around when you turned the machine. Two of them had one type of connector for the screen and the other two had a different connector - One got fried and on the other I broke the screen on - so I couldn't harvest parts from one to the other. S76 wanted $90 for a new charger after one of mine failed. I have an HP Omen laptop as my primary machine now - here is what is cool: I had an HP Omen and it failed to power on one day - so I contacted support and they had me send them the machine - instead of fixing it, they sent me a brand new Omen which was way better than the failed unit. The design is super elegant, and it has dual NVME slots, so I have dual drives in it. The screen is matte so no glossy reflections like my macbooks have... Yeah - I think I'll stick with Omens for the foreseeable future. HP's support was FANTASTIC. When my macbook pro caught fire in my sleep and nearly killed me (it was laying on my bed and I fell asleep watching a movie and the machine caught fire - something that that model was recalled for) I took it to Apple's main store in San Francisco - and they kept it for two months "analyzing it" then came back and told me that even though it was a safety issue and the machine was under recall for CATCHING FIRE, they found that one of my moisture sensors had been triggered and therefore, they were not going to replace, fix or help me. (I had spilled a small bit of water on the keyboard many month prior to the machine catching fire) Then they tried to sell me a new machine, or have them "replace the machine for $1,500" A total joke. Ill never buy another apple machine nor a s76 machine again. HP support is AMAZING. Also - When HP bought Compaq - we had a bunch of Compaq/HP servers back in 1998 - and the support back then on those servers was top notch - and the HW design was as well. I used to rebuild those servers in minutes in the literal dark. All the Sun servers we had, like the 650s would bitch if their case was even slightly off center and would refuse to boot.
  - 6y ago
diragon 6y ago
How are they keyboards in System76 laptops? By the pictures it does not look very good.
jarcane 6y ago
Would like to see more specifics than just "AMD Radeon Graphics". That could mean literally anything from Intel integrated level performance, to a proper dedicated GPU, though for the price here I'm guessing on the former ...
- tyingq 6y ago
  The graphics appear to come from the processor, either a Ryzen 4500u (6 gpu cores @1500Mhz) or Ryzen 4700u (7 gpu cores @1600Mhz).
- neogodless 6y ago
  https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-4700u https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-4700u Vega 7 @1600Mhz You are unlikely to see dedicated graphics paired with a U-series processor in most cases. (There are exceptions, but you'll see the dedicated graphics card specified in those cases.)
- throwawayffffas 6y ago
  See benchmarks here: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Ryzen+7+4700U+with+Radeon+Graphics&id=4234 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Ryzen+7+4700U...
  - legohead 6y ago
    basically: not great I don't want to advertise, so I'll just say - you can go to a big computer/hardware seller website and search for laptops with nvidia graphics cards. You can get a laptop with a GTX 1650 for $700, which has 3x the performance.
    - officeplant 6y ago
      And then we have to deal with nvidia's proprietary drivers, HDMI being electrically connected to the gpu, graphics switching, etc. AMD's APU graphics offer a good enough solution while removing the headaches many of us are trying to avoid.
snicker7 6y ago
Is there a way to get an accidental protection plan on these machines? I would love to support Linux HW vendors, but I am very clumsy.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Add it to your home insurance? Buy a separate policy?
Happpy 6y ago
I'd love to replace my thinkpad. But I need/want things that seem unavailable. * trackpoint + buttons (can be without touchpad, disabled anyway) * full keyboard * strong durable * removable battery * 4k screen * ecc 64-128gb * rj45 * lots of ports * hardware switches to disable: networking, camera, mic,.. Thinkpad's are move farther away each year. I hope some company will fill the gap.
- unionpivo 6y ago
  I was/am thinkpad user also. I have migrated to desktops. They are cheap enough to have one at the office and one at home. Sure the above wont work for everybody, but if you are like me, you unpacked the laptop at home and at work each day at exactly the same space, where all the cables and extra monitors were. I used to use laptop in coffee shops and outdoors, but nowadays between phone, and tablets (wel phone and kindle in my case) I almost never feel the need. Buy silent box, mobo for overclocking and underclock it for extra silence, and throw the box under the table. Still have my laptop, but its mostly just "backup" and in case I travel somewhere, but honestly I don't care about it as much
  - albertzeyer 6y ago
    The downside with this is extra effort to keep them in sync. Depending on what you do, syncing can be easy (or even trivial if you do everything remote anyway) or more annoying.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      Rsyncing home directory worked for me for 15 years.
    - lupire 6y ago
      Carrying a disk on your commute is easier than carrying a laptop.
    - jdhawk 6y ago
      cannot say enough good things about unison https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/
Redoubts 6y ago
> 1920×1080 Come on.
siraben 6y ago
Laptops that are designed with Linux first-class support are interesting, and I've been considering to get one once I'm through with my late 2014 MBP. How do System76 and Purism compare in terms of daily drivers? Anyone tried both and could provide a comparison?
f430 6y ago
how loud is it? should've bought this....
encryptluks2 6y ago
I don't understand the appeal for System76. It seems grossly overpriced. Is it simply because they install Linux for you? You can find the same processor with much better specs for cheaper on Amazon or Costco.
- bluGill 6y ago
  With system 76 you get not just the processor, but also the other parts. You know System 76 didn't change network interfaces to something new with no linux drivers mid stream. Or Wifi, USB chipset, some BIOS, or one of the many other non-processor parts that manufacture change all the time. If there are drivers the substitution doesn't matter to anyone, but often there are no linux drivers for 3-6 months (best case - meaning that it isn't hard to write the driver, in the worst case linux will never get a driver). Note that for the above substitutions there often is no part number change so you have no way of knowing if the amazon/costco model will work even if it works for someone else.
  - encryptluks2 6y ago
    Costco list the model and the manufacturer provides all the information about the chips on their website. If you're running a distro with a 2 year old kernel then you may have issues, but I run Arch so it works flawless. I just got a Ryzen 4600 on Costco for $429 and everything works great.
    - officeplant 6y ago
      Not everyone runs Arch or a distro with anywhere near the newest kernel. Not everyone feels like digging for posts online that show what wifi/ethernet/etc chipset a laptop is using so they know beforehand whether or not its going to be a pain in a more LTS minded distro. System76 is there for those people.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    Pro-tip from an ex-university sysadmin: beware getting consumer-grade machines, and never, ever, get them if you are buying in bulk. The specs will probably all be similar, but the individual parts will be whatever was in the bin when the chassis came down the line, which means whatever was cheapest that day. Even if you get lucky and have drivers for everything, supporting 10 machines with 10 different configurations is 10 times harder than supporting hundreds of machines with one configuration.
eingaeKaiy8ujie 6y ago
Do they do anything to neutralize/disable the "AMD Secure Technology" thing (if that's even possible)?
blahyawnblah 6y ago
Why still only 1080p in the year 2021?
- glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago
  battery and overall compatibility. and for under 15" it is just a waste for 90% of people.
ehutch79 6y ago
Laptops with offset keyboards are difficult for me to deal with. The keyboards qwerty (or whatever layout) section should really be centered under the screen
GNU_James 6y ago
How is this ad not banned on the spot?
shmerl 6y ago
> Video Ports HDMI(w/HDCP) Would be really nice to use a proper modern DP instead of antiquated HDMI for this. Is it using Coreboot by the way?
- jandrese 6y ago
  HDMI is less hassle. Everything comes with a HDMI port these days, but a DP port is still more of a proper full Computer Monitor(tm) feature. My work just installed a whole bunch of projectors that have HDMI and VGA as input options. I have no idea where they found them. Of course sometimes the HDMI fails due to DRM nonsense, so that's also an issue.
  - shmerl 6y ago
    I think HDMI only exists because HDMI cartel keeps pushing it for patents profits. There is no real need for it because DP is much better. But since they make HDMI only equipment, we are still stuck with it. And personally, I had a lot of problems with HDMI in the past. Unlike with DP.
    - jandrese 6y ago
      Theoretically some DRM content should refuse to play at full resolution on DP connected displays due to the lack of DRM on the cable. I've never tested this myself, but you often see requirements for things like Blu-Ray players that you have to be running a late model Intel chip, on a supported motherboard, on Windows 10, over HDMI to a supported monitor. Get anything wrong and you've got a 720p picture or a black box. Edit: Behold this list of requirements. https://www.reddit.com/r/htpc/wiki/faq#wiki_what_do_i_need_for_4k_ultrahd_compatibility.3F https://www.reddit.com/r/htpc/wiki/faq#wiki_what_do_i_need_f...
      - shmerl 6y ago
        I'm quite averse to DRM in general. For blurays there should be libaacs with keydb. DP should support HDCP as far as I know, if you need it. Seriously, HDMI should just disappear already but that corrupt cartel will keep it around for years.
nisa 6y ago
looks like the aura 15 from tuxedo computers / schenker but a little bit more expensive? https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/15-16-inch/TUXEDO-Aura-15-Gen1.tuxedo# https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note...
- azangru 6y ago
  Also, with a smaller battery.
Naac 6y ago
It doesn't look like there is a Thunderbolt port ( a 40 GBPS port ). I recall reading that it has something to do with it working on Intel only hardware. But whatever the case is, lack of Thunderbolt is unfortunately a deal breaker. I've moved on to unifying all my docks and power chords to only be Thunderbolt. It's unfortunate because the Ryzen chipsets are clearly getting to be superior from a price/performance point of view. EDIT: I am writing this as someone who supports System76, and has only ran Linux professionally and at home for the last 10 years.
- tjoff 6y ago
  Seems more sensible to me to base everything off of usb-c instead.
  - aendruk 6y ago
    Thunderbolt uses USB-C since ~2015.
    - tjoff 6y ago
      Point still stands.
      - SpaceNugget 6y ago
        No it doesn't. USB Type-C is a connector shape, used by both USB and Thunderbolt. So people saying they want thunderbolt and you saying they should want USB Type-C doesn't make much sense. Imagine someone in 2001 saying they are disappointed with new computers being released without USB 2.0 (i.e. still using USB 1.1), and you replying that things should be based on Type-A. Both USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 used Type-A connectors. The shape is unrelated to the protocol/speed/etc.
        tjoff 6y ago
        I think it was obvious beyond any reasonable doubt that I meant USB over USB-C.
rurban 6y ago
I've got the Thinkpad E495 with AMD Ryzen 3, Vega and 1TB HD, Fedora 32 for under 500€. Excellent machine, faster than anything else I got. But it was only a short time test balloon, I fear. Not available anymore.
Fergusonb 6y ago
I can't speak to the 4700u or the pangolin specifically, but I can offer this perspective on PopOS/AMD: I've been using System76's PopOS with my Asus Zephyrus G14 (4800hs) as a daily driver and I really like it. (freelance/web) The battery life is comparable to Windows (on integrated graphics mode, it has graphics switching available)at 7-10 hours with 70% brightness and balanced power settings using VScode and firefox. The g14 has a 75wh battery vs the pangolin's 49wh, so I would expect less battery life from the pangolin despite the 4700u having a lower default tdp, since the 4800hs likes to sit at around 6-10 watts when doing non-intensive tasks anyway. In 2021 I'm not missing any major programs. It's pretty incredible how much is cross-platform now.
- isoos 6y ago
  I was considering to buy a G14, but got distracted with other stuff. Can you please share a few details on how you use it? - What kind of external webcam do you use? Does it have any problem with any video-conferencing software? - Do you access any streaming service (with DRM)? Any issues? - Any issues with drivers, returning from sleep/hybernation? Thanks!
  - gbrown 6y ago
    I use it with Fedora happily, and for work I have to use Zoom daily. I did have to replace a fan with one from Aliexpress due to rattle, but haven’t had issues since.
  - shaicoleman 6y ago
    I have the Dell G5 4800H (AMD iGPU+AMD dGPU), there are a couple of graphic driver issues under Linux. I'm using the USB-C connection which is connected to the iGPU. * Locks up on suspend/resume * Locks up when inserting an external USB-C monitor * Requires a recent kernel to work properly (5.8 or later) * Locks up without amdgpu.runpm=0 kernel command line * dGPU can't be turned off, so increases power consumption * Locks up with vsync on with the dGPU * Kernel warning on startup, but doesn't affect stability Besides these issues (which can be worked around), it's very solid.
yxhuvud 6y ago
Still no 4k equivalent resolution. yawn.
foobarbecue 6y ago
Interesting choice of animal, given that Pangolins are suspected of being the source of the virus causing the COVID-19 pandemic. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210210/did-the-new-coronavirus-come-from-pangolins https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210210/did-the-new-coronav... All publicity is good publicity, I guess...
- msikora 6y ago
  Ha, came here to say just this.
- jacurtis 6y ago
  This was my immediate thought upon reading this. It is a very bizarre name choice given its potential connection to COVID-19 and that it was released during the ongoing global pandemic. Regardless of whether Pangolins are the true source of the pandemic (it is looking like that is becoming much less likely as time has gone on), the connection is still there in many people's mind and not what I would be naming my product after in 2021. Maybe in 2030 it would be safe, but this might just be a bit too soon. Surely someone at System76 has to be aware of this, which begs the question, was this naming intentional? It would have to be I imagine. It seems a bit crass to go this route in the current climate.
  - officeplant 6y ago
    Given the Pangolin was used for Ubuntu 12.04 and System 76 has used previously referenced animals from Ubuntu's naming scheme before, I'd suspect that's why.
danielyaa5 6y ago
Just don't let randy near it
timwaagh 6y ago
plot twist: you get corona if you touch it.
jackcviers3 6y ago
Just switched to a Gazelle from an old IdeaPad p400 touch. Full keyboard, beautiful screen, removable battery, extensive power management options, large trackpad, multiple color adjustable brightness back-lit keyboard so I can change it to red to avoid hurting my eyes, a real gpu, and powerful as all heck. I love it.
tlhunter 6y ago
I love non-4k displays, but 1080p on a 15" is too harsh. 1440p would probably be the cutoff for that size. It seems that most developers (their target audience?) love hidpi which may be one of the biggest adoption issues for System 76.
vngzs 6y ago
I'd buy one if they had high DPI panels. Even 16:10 would be a significant improvement; 1080 vertical pixels feels awfully cramped these days.
kevinherron 6y ago
Too bad it has that numpad instead of a centered keyboard. Also I don't understand why a laptop of that size doesn't have a 99Wh battery. The 1080p resolution is understandable... high DPI support suck-fest can be avoided.
- lhl 6y ago
  Last year I bought a 4800H Tongfang PF5NU1G (sold as the Tuxedo Pulse 15, KDE Slimbook, and by Laptop with Linux, among other places) that has a centered keyboard and a 91Wh battery that's a better option than this Pangolin, but availability has been pretty scarce.
xvilka 6y ago
Does it use coreboot?
antattack 6y ago
Given that Display specs are not front-and-center, my guess it's a TFT panel. Combine that with 1080p resolution and this laptop is might (no GtG or refresh specs) be good for gaming but not any serious typing or designing.
- al_chemist 6y ago
  How serious is your typing?
  - antattack 6y ago
    Sometimes, when I type colon and close parenthesis people laugh. But, that's an exception.
- numpad0 6y ago
  Sure it’s not DSTN?
acd 6y ago
Nice price on the extras, fairly cheap upgrade parts such as cpu and memory.
stakkur 6y ago
I really like System76, and what they're trying to do. But their mediocre laptop keyboards are always the deal breaker for me--it's the chief human interface, and the one component I don't want to compromise on.
- bogwog 6y ago
  > and what they're trying to do What is it that they're trying to do? Sell re-branded Sager laptops?
- Sosh101 6y ago
  Yeah it's telling that on the specs page, the keyboard doesn't even get a mention.
- bbpp 6y ago
  I have a Darter Pro 2019 and I also have two ThinkPads (T490 and W510) and I can say the Darter Pro is not half bad. The layout is "different" but not bad once you get used to it. The feel is pretty good. Not as good as the W510 but comparable to the T490. Even the trackpad on the Darter Pro is smooth. I agree with the overall sentiment though that it's time for a premium-designer-made-for-linux-laptop!
wffurr 6y ago
Yikes that keyboard. Small right-shift key, weird narrow numpad, off-center trackpad. Do people actually like that kind of layout? It seems pretty awful to me. I'd prefer no numpad at all and a full size shift key with half-height arrow keys. If I want a numpad, that's what desktop keyboards are for, or a USB numpad.
- marshray 6y ago
  I have a laptop with that basically that exact same keyboard. It's not too bad. In practice, I find the flush surface hidden mouse buttons to be more problematic. I would never want a numeric keypad on a laptop, but apparently it's a selling feature and it's near impossible to find a larger-screen laptop without one. I find whether minor things like the off-center trackpad bug me tends to reflect more about my current state of mind than anything else.
- bityard 6y ago
  For the last 20 years, "has a numpad" has been one my qualifying criteria for buying a laptop. I need a numpad, because I type long-ish numbers into my computer all the time. IP addresses, phone numbers, and simple arithmetic problems are probably my top three uses. If I had to suffer with only a number row on a day-to-day basis, I'm sure I'd have some kind of RSI by now. The number row is too far away from the home keys to be of more than occasional use.
  - marshray 6y ago
    The num pad is much farther away from the home row than the number keys, which touch typists reach without needing to move hand position.
rplnt 6y ago
10MB of unnecessary large (2560x3842) PNGs on a product page. It's not a gallery, it just makes it slow to load.
lupire 6y ago
What's the price difference to comparable hardware from other vendors (and other OSes)?
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Someone on here yesterday suggested a Lenovo Slim 7, which seems broadly comparable, this review covers a few other similar models https://www.theverge.com/21423498/lenovo-ideapad-slim-7-2020-amd-review https://www.theverge.com/21423498/lenovo-ideapad-slim-7-2020.... Note, I'm in UK "slim 7" here is used by Lenovo for a "Yoga" model whilst the poster mentioned an "IdeaPad". I assumed that as I searched for the latter and got the former that they must be different regional names. But, no. They're very different with very similar model names. Lenovo seem to do this a lot and it's very annoying.
brianolson 6y ago
I have their 13-ish/14-ish laptop from 2017, 3200x1600 display. It's great. Damn shame they don't have anything high-dpi now. 15" 1920x1080 is unacceptable. 1920x1080 is the new 1366x768.
- thefz 6y ago
  I am avid for System76 direct user experience. How's the machine-OS integration going on so far? An I agree that 1080 now is a 13-14'' display resolution only nowadays.
jonplackett 6y ago
Anyone know the battery life? Interested to see Ryzen 4000 VS M1.
paulcarroty 6y ago
Is this laptop designed by System76 or yet another Clevo re-brand?
rychco 6y ago
I previously bought a Thelio desktop from System76 and it was great. I ended up upgrading and basically took all the parts from it except motherboard and cpu. I still use PopOS as my daily driver and have no reason to ever switch to anything else. Drivers always work and updates are painless. Major version upgrades are always smooth. I haven’t had any external hardware compatibility issues (though to be fair this isn’t just PopOS, but Linux in general improving). I’m a huge fan of PopOS.
- okennedy 6y ago
  +1 It might be a bit pricy, but the tech support is amazing. I just spent a few weeks working with them to debug a transient kernel panic with my new Thelio. Throughout the entire process, I talked to support techs with actual agency, and not just automata reading a script. Serious kudos to System76. (The problem ultimately turned out to be a clearly labeled experimental feature I'd turned on a few months earlier and forgotten about. Ooops...) The Thelio is my daily driver, and PopOS just fades into the background.
glglwty 6y ago
I get system76's coreboot offering looks interesting because there aren't many vendors shipping that feature. What's the appeal of their other products though?
princevegeta89 6y ago
Honestly why do I need to spend so much money on a Linux laptop? I have my inspiron with 11th generation i3 and an 8gb of RAM, rocking both Linux Mint and Zorin with 0 problems. Oh, and Pop OS runs great too!
fnord77 6y ago
I don't understand why many of these workstation-class laptops have num. pads. It is so annoying to type with your hands off-center from the screen.
- echelon 6y ago
  They're optimizing for the professional accounting Olympics use case.
- tastyfreeze 6y ago
  I don't understand why many workstation-class laptops DONT have a num pads. It is so annoying to have to type long sequences of digits without one.
  - echelon 6y ago
    Do numbers constitute even 5% of your keyboard usage time?
    - urthor 6y ago
      Excel users yes.
    - i80and 6y ago
      Depends on what you're doing: any kind of 3D work requires a numpad to be effective, since that's typically where camera controls are bound in every workflow I've seen.
      - spijdar 6y ago
        I'll say I personally can't use numpads, and they're total wasted space for me, so I try to avoid them on my keyboards and laptops, especially because they put the keyboard off-center on said laptops. However, I think there are use cases and people who prefer using them. Some software is really geared around the full cluster being there. I've got a full size, numpad-ed keyboard (some old stock DEC thing that went to a mid 90s alphastation I believe, I got it for dirt cheap) attached to my "windows gaming machine", and I use the numpad on a few shortcut-heavy games. Otherwise, though, I just don't have any muscle memory for it. I have to look and hunt/peck for keys on a numpad. I'm mostly using bash and vim for work, though...
mturilin 6y ago
I just can understand people creating non HiDPI displays in 2021. It’s just beyond me that someone is making laptops with display much worse than my 2012 MBP Retina.
- av8avenger 6y ago
  Totally agree with you. I use my MBP mostly on native resolution if my screen gets really crowded and on the other hand it's nice when you're doing creative work and can switch to a downscaled image with so much more "smoothness" and details. I like the specs of this Pangolin notebook, but as soon as i saw 1080p i was gone.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > I just can understand people creating non HiDPI displays in 2021. Because they still sell. Back around 2 decades ago, we had a funny thing in Russia where people demanded 640x480 monitors back, and even bought, and sold them on premium because new 1024x768 monitors "make everything so tiny!"
- dmos62 6y ago
  I've no use for a hidpi display. I've a use for lower power usage though. If I don't care about power usage, I'll be using a desktop anyway. Plus the price is probably pretty different. I know decent external budget 4k monitors are non existant.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
p1mrx 6y ago
I don't think I'd buy a laptop in 2021 without USB-C PD charging.
frederir 6y ago
I stopped at FHD display. WTF can we have at least a QHD resolution on a 15.6" ?
Antoninus 6y ago
This but thinkpad keyboard.
pier25 6y ago
Why do they use such ugly fonts for the keyboard? It's an immediate turn off.
- spijdar 6y ago
  Probably because it's (likely) a Clevo NL51RU or something similar and they use these gamer-y legends. [0] [0] https://clevo-computer.com/media/image/15/da/88/CLEVO-NL51RU-MOBILER-PROZESSOR-DER-SERIE-AMD-RYZEN-4000-AMD-RADEON-GRAFIK-3.jpg https://clevo-computer.com/media/image/15/da/88/CLEVO-NL51RU...
  - pier25 6y ago
    My question was rather "why would anyone use such an ugly font on a keyboard?" :)
ptcampbell 6y ago
I like System 76 and I use Pop OS on a desktop PC. I don't know how else to say this but crikey, these machines are ugly. Edit: I expect to be downvoted, and this is just my unhelpful, subjective opinion. But the font on those keys looks like one you'd get from a 90s shareware kit of 100 free fonts.
tristor 6y ago
I want to love this, but the keyboard seems horrible. I know I'm exceptionally picky when it comes to keyboards, I usually just take a 60% mechanical keyboard with me, but I've been able to adjust to using the (non-crappy years) Macbook Pro keyboard and the Thinkpad keyboards while traveling, and generally find them acceptable. This keyboard though has really bad legends, an inexplicable numpad, and it takes up too much real estate when I'd rather have a trackpoint and a larger touchpad. Also, the screen resolution and size seems odd. I'm okay with a 1080P screen... but not at nearly 16". This should be offered with a 3K or 4K screen only.
- ur-whale 6y ago
  I've never bought a laptop without a numpad and would never even consider a laptop that doesn't have one. There are tons of apps, specifically in the video editing / 3D modeling space that are basically unusable without one. When I code, I have macros tied to numpad keys. Couldn't work without them. If all you do is browse the web and answer email on your laptop, then yeah, makes sense. For any serious work, no numpad = no buy.
  - mvanaltvorst 6y ago
    Do you really feel like you would be constrained by the amount of shortcuts on a keyboard without a numpad? There are so many different combinations you can make once you include control/alt/fn etc. Sure, if you're used to shortcuts on a numpad I can see how it might hinder your productivity for a few weeks. However, working on a smaller keyboard will definitely not constrain the amount of flexibility you have in the long term once you get used to other shortcuts. You might even become more productive on a smaller keyboard, because it takes less effort to stay on the home row and find keys.
  - tristor 6y ago
    I probably feel differently, because I'm used to using shortcuts and macros on a TKL (or smaller) keyboard. There are many different ways to achieve that, but for instance on my 60% mechanical keyboards I have between 3 and 14 layers (depending on keyboard firmware) which can be accessed with modifiers and trigger macros. There are significantly more combinations available to me on a 60% keyboard or on a laptop keyboard, with appropriate tooling, than is available on a numpad. I've been doing "serious work" for my entire career, thanks, although these days I do spend more time in Zoom meetings and writing emails/documents.
peanut_worm 6y ago
Pricing doesn’t seem that bad. I wish they’d elaborate on what “AND Radeon Graphics” means specifically
- lhl 6y ago
  It doesn't have a dGPU specced, so it looks like it's just the APU graphics. That's a Vega 6 for the 4500U and Vega 7 for the 4700U. This may be useful for placing that performance in context: https://benchmarks.ul.com/hardware/gpu/AMD+Radeon+RX+Vega+7+(Ryzen+4000+Mobile)+review https://benchmarks.ul.com/hardware/gpu/AMD+Radeon+RX+Vega+7+...
gbolcer 6y ago
System 76 is well known for the linux laptops, aka mobile workstations. I've owned a few over the years.
albertTJames 6y ago
This name triggers some deep and still ongoing trauma
glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago
Supporting system76, librem, etc was once about investing in support for linux.... Yet those companies provide zero contributions, rebadge open source projects, and just re-sell taiwanese white-label computers while going great lengths to hide that and fake innovation. if pcpartpicker.com adds a single checkbox to their searchs: "[ ] support in mainline linux kernel", it would make more good to linux support than all those companies combined. Also, barrel charger plugs? ugh.
joshuamcginnis 6y ago
Just picked up a Thinkpad P14s with the 4750u (8 core 16 threads) for about $600 using corporateperks.com discount. Spent another $250 for 1tb m.2 and 32gb ram upgrade. The value is tremendous.
cassepipe 6y ago
Has it an aluminum chassis? The plastic always breaks with time
JediPig 6y ago
asus zephryus is a better buy, as much I would love to purchase the system76. Core of it, is it at least 20% higher margins. The Ryzen 5000 is out, I highly recommend either going for Asus Zephryus or wait for lenovo's mobile 5000 AMD lands.
ChuckMcM 6y ago
Love it, I really hope the idea of more 'crafted' laptops and computers catches on. Ideally with more open source and more repairability. It is something I miss from the "good old days."
tbrock 6y ago
This is a compelling laptop I wonder if the build quality will compare with Lenovo. 15.6 inch screen at 1920×1080? That’s barely OK but not great for a laptop in 2021.
VectorLock 6y ago
Its all exciting until you see the accountant's 10 key hanging off the side. :(
anta40 6y ago
Pangolin 15 looks interesting. Compared to the latest Thinkpad X1 Carbon, I wonder how bulky the thing is. Sure display wise, it's bigger.
paranoidrobot 6y ago
I'll give System76 (and their hardware partner) this: They're getting closer to something I'd buy. This looks like a good option for a 15.6" laptop. My issue with it is that they're still shipping with those barrel plugs AC adapters, and don't appear to support USB-PD for charging on the USB-C ports. The lack of Australian support also makes it a difficult purchase - a former colleague bought a System76 laptop a few years back and it died a few months after purchase. Having to ship it back to the US, and the associated delays means having to buy a second laptop to continue working while it's being repaired.
- deepsun 6y ago
  Don't they support USB-C charging? I compared the other days all their models, those that rated at 65W all supported USB-C charging.
  - paranoidrobot 6y ago
    I don't think so. Clevo are known to be the OEM behind many (all?) of System76's laptops. In Australia they're sold under the brand of Metabox. The System76 Pangolin tech specs[1] match the Metabox Edge specs[2] and visually match as far as I can tell identically, and neither mention USB-PD or Charging capability. Metabox specifically call out USB-PD capability on their other range of laptops, so I don't think it's an omission. [1] https://system76.com/laptops/pangolin#specs https://system76.com/laptops/pangolin#specs [2] https://www.metabox.com.au/store/Edge-Range/Specs https://www.metabox.com.au/store/Edge-Range/Specs
    - deepsun 6y ago
      Here they do: https://system76.com/guides/lemp10 https://system76.com/guides/lemp10 Notice "65W+ USB Type-C Charging Compatible" in specs.
      - paranoidrobot 6y ago
        That's a different laptop.
xbar 6y ago
After some consideration, I am going to buy a System76 computer. I want them to succeed.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
INTPenis 6y ago
A dragable laptop with a numpad. No thanks. What programmer or devops consultant needs a numpad? Unless they're coding in hex. I long for a ~13-14" 2k AMD Ryzen ultrabook. So far the screen is always subpar. I've been using 2560 resolution on my X1 yoga now for 2 years and I can't go back to 1080.
ficklepickle 6y ago
Has anyone in Canada ordered from system76? I'd expect to get dinged for GST or HST, but were there any additional surprise brokerage fees or duties? This thing is really up my alley and I just got my first decently paying, steady software job...
HelloNurse 6y ago
Is it normal for it to use somewhat old processors (4500U and 4700U) instead of the new ones that have been available for quite a long time like the 5700U and 5800U?

500 points by bananicorn 6y ago

merb 6y ago

I still miss thunderbold on the ryzen mobile laptops. I still hope that tb4 changes things.

bgorman 6y ago

Shipping 1080p panels in a high end laptop was a non-starter in 2016.

neogodless 6y ago
I prefer them. Either my opinion is wrong, or your blanket statement is wrong.
- apahwa 6y ago
  why do you prefer 1080?
  - stagger87 6y ago
    Longer battery life and no app scaling issues (on the apps I use)
  - precurse 6y ago
    I prefer it since 1080p takes less resources to drive, therefore gets better battery life. On a 14" display, I think 1080p looks more than fine. If I want a hidpi display, I'll just dock to an external display.
  - neogodless 6y ago
    My eyesight is not great. The higher resolution screen is wasted on me, and wastes computing / energy resources to drive it. I enjoy gaming on my laptop, and prefer native resolution gaming. I require a high refresh rate due to post-concussion syndrome. So sure, if that can be the case with a higher resolution that's fine, but that isn't the norm yet. (2021 seems to be the year for QHD 165Hz though!) I'm in no way saying QHD or 4K isn't ideal for anyone. It's just silly to say that "this option I don't want is a non-starter" as if it applies to everyone.
    - mrec 6y ago
      Same here. I (old fogey) use a 1080p 24" monitor with my desktop, and don't feel any particular need for more.
- kensai 6y ago
  Sometimes I wish there was the possibility to see the exact number of upvotes or downvotes a response got here in HN in order to settle the numbers of such opinions (pro and contra).
  - gostsamo 6y ago
    There are hn polls.
- unethical_ban 6y ago
  I'll play this game. Reasons to like lower resolution screens: * Concerns about power * Concerns about HiDPI issues / fractional scaling, esp. with Linux * Likes seeing pixels * Price
bluedino 6y ago
Not such a big deal because highdpi is finnicky in Linux in 2021 (as long as it is a high-quality panel). Lenovo has shipped some atrocious 1080 panels in the past.
- opan 6y ago
  Works well on Wayland from what I've heard.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    Works great, if you happen to have resolution that is usable with integer scaling. If you need fractional scaling, only native Wayland applications work well. X11 applications are going to be upscaled and look blurry. Today, Chrome, all Electron apps, Jetbrains tools still do not support Wayland, though at least for Chrome/Electron the support is on the way.
sagolikasoppor 6y ago
Totally disagree, you won't see much of a difference in such a small screen anyway and the battery life is way better. I have a 4k monitor on my laptop but I regret that choice.
ObscureScience 6y ago
I would have love something like 2160 × 1440 (3:2 aspect ratio), but then they'd likely not have included a numpad.
dgellow 6y ago
I completely agree. I will never go back to 1080p and a 16/9 ratio. 3/2 is the best ratio ever when writing code (after 4/3, but that’s definitely dead).
hu3 6y ago
For me and my tired eyes, no laptop screen comes close to the real deal which is a large ultrawide monitor. So it might as well come with 1080p which has better battery life and no application scaling issues on Linux.
jerf 6y ago
I don't mind the resolution per se but am a bit concerned about what sort of panel it is. There are some bad cheap panels out there.

mattl 6y ago

I like my System76 desktop but I've had plenty of issues with their laptops, and I really dislike a numpad on a laptop.

sgc 6y ago
I love my numpad.
- aendruk 6y ago
  Try putting it under the home row with a modifier key. I won’t go back. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NBBq9vHufU9a6d59irhRcVptjKaOeO7b6vXX_0rqi3Q/edit#gid=1145935278 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NBBq9vHufU9a6d59irhR...
opan 6y ago
Seconding the numpad thing. I wish laptops would come with something like a 50% ortholinear mechanical keyboard in them.
simias 6y ago
given the size of the unit it makes sense to have a numpad, no? What would you put instead?
- bdefore 6y ago
  i'd prefer wider more forgiving typing targets of the keys i use
- Sunspark 6y ago
  Most offices don't allow people to put pictures or personal effects on their hotel desks anymore so perhaps one could have a little LCD panel there displaying pictures of one's loved ones, or the cat not eating salad.
- wheels 6y ago
  I don't like having my hands off-center. I assume I'm not alone there. Among other things, it causes amplified wrist pain.

geophile 6y ago

I have a 2-yeard old Darter Pro, which has an Intel CPU. Love it, great laptop. Can someone comment on the pros and cons of the Ryzen CPU? Wondering how to compare the new machine to the Intel-based System76 laptops.

mdoliwa 6y ago

How does it compare to Lenovo Thinkpad L15? As I understand there is no problem with running latest Linux on it, and currently I'm thinking about buying it (mostly Rails development + docker). Do you recommend any other machine?

mikepurvis 6y ago

I feel like battery life could be a challenge too, at 49 Wh. The M1 Macbooks have a 58 Wh battery, but they also benefit from being not-x86 and having better power management at the OS level. Dell XPS laptops with discrete graphics ship 97 Wh.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mbackson 6y ago

You're welcome guys. I'd been considering whether to wait for one of these or buy something else. After just putting in an order for a Darter Pro, of course this immediately becomes available!

sinistersnare 6y ago

Why aren't there any bold laptop manufacturers? This is a 2021 laptop that uses USB-A primarily, a meh panel, and no particular standout design features. Why do I have to get a mac if I want actually good design? System76 should take a risk and truly make an interesting laptop. leaving the standard, boring design to the big name companies.

s_dev 6y ago
I would imagine part of the explanation is that Apple is a trillion dollar company and System76 is a million dollar company.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Wohlf 6y ago
If you want something like a Mac there are plenty of options. Off the top of my head there's Lenovo Yoga, Dell XPS, and Microsoft Surface.
- nobleach 6y ago
  I've grown to love my Dell XPS (with Linux). It definitely has some rough edges. Dell shipped what I consider a faulty machine. The trackpad is wobbly/bouncy. I had a tech come out to replace it, but he ended up having to send it to "the depot" due to a screw being sheared. I hadn't touched the screw. The depot returned it to me with a missing/broken case LED, unplugged speakers and one WiFi antenna that won't seat. Even still, the machine is beautiful. Even the fingerprint reader works in Linux. I use the heck out of it and battery life is quite good. Also, I upgraded my RAM to 32G and my SSD to 512G. This thing also has another M.2 slot just in case I want to put another SSD into it.
zucker42 6y ago
System76 doesn't design their own laptop hardware, as far as I know.
- 6y ago

piokoch 6y ago

Is this system better than, say, Lenovo Legion 5 or HP Envy, they have similar price, are those System76 laptop offer better build quality, etc?

samstave 6y ago
I have owned multiple S76 machines - the machine was built by Clio? The guts were good, but the case was chintsy. I had four of these laptops - and on ALL 4 they would have screws come loose and fall out inside the case. You could hear it rattling around when you turned the machine. Two of them had one type of connector for the screen and the other two had a different connector - One got fried and on the other I broke the screen on - so I couldn't harvest parts from one to the other. S76 wanted $90 for a new charger after one of mine failed. I have an HP Omen laptop as my primary machine now - here is what is cool: I had an HP Omen and it failed to power on one day - so I contacted support and they had me send them the machine - instead of fixing it, they sent me a brand new Omen which was way better than the failed unit. The design is super elegant, and it has dual NVME slots, so I have dual drives in it. The screen is matte so no glossy reflections like my macbooks have... Yeah - I think I'll stick with Omens for the foreseeable future. HP's support was FANTASTIC. When my macbook pro caught fire in my sleep and nearly killed me (it was laying on my bed and I fell asleep watching a movie and the machine caught fire - something that that model was recalled for) I took it to Apple's main store in San Francisco - and they kept it for two months "analyzing it" then came back and told me that even though it was a safety issue and the machine was under recall for CATCHING FIRE, they found that one of my moisture sensors had been triggered and therefore, they were not going to replace, fix or help me. (I had spilled a small bit of water on the keyboard many month prior to the machine catching fire) Then they tried to sell me a new machine, or have them "replace the machine for $1,500" A total joke. Ill never buy another apple machine nor a s76 machine again. HP support is AMAZING. Also - When HP bought Compaq - we had a bunch of Compaq/HP servers back in 1998 - and the support back then on those servers was top notch - and the HW design was as well. I used to rebuild those servers in minutes in the literal dark. All the Sun servers we had, like the 650s would bitch if their case was even slightly off center and would refuse to boot.
- 6y ago

diragon 6y ago

How are they keyboards in System76 laptops? By the pictures it does not look very good.

jarcane 6y ago

Would like to see more specifics than just "AMD Radeon Graphics". That could mean literally anything from Intel integrated level performance, to a proper dedicated GPU, though for the price here I'm guessing on the former ...

tyingq 6y ago
The graphics appear to come from the processor, either a Ryzen 4500u (6 gpu cores @1500Mhz) or Ryzen 4700u (7 gpu cores @1600Mhz).
neogodless 6y ago
https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-4700u https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-4700u Vega 7 @1600Mhz You are unlikely to see dedicated graphics paired with a U-series processor in most cases. (There are exceptions, but you'll see the dedicated graphics card specified in those cases.)
throwawayffffas 6y ago
See benchmarks here: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Ryzen+7+4700U+with+Radeon+Graphics&id=4234 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Ryzen+7+4700U...
- legohead 6y ago
  basically: not great I don't want to advertise, so I'll just say - you can go to a big computer/hardware seller website and search for laptops with nvidia graphics cards. You can get a laptop with a GTX 1650 for $700, which has 3x the performance.
  - officeplant 6y ago
    And then we have to deal with nvidia's proprietary drivers, HDMI being electrically connected to the gpu, graphics switching, etc. AMD's APU graphics offer a good enough solution while removing the headaches many of us are trying to avoid.

snicker7 6y ago

Is there a way to get an accidental protection plan on these machines? I would love to support Linux HW vendors, but I am very clumsy.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Add it to your home insurance? Buy a separate policy?

Happpy 6y ago

I'd love to replace my thinkpad. But I need/want things that seem unavailable. * trackpoint + buttons (can be without touchpad, disabled anyway) * full keyboard * strong durable * removable battery * 4k screen * ecc 64-128gb * rj45 * lots of ports * hardware switches to disable: networking, camera, mic,.. Thinkpad's are move farther away each year. I hope some company will fill the gap.

unionpivo 6y ago
I was/am thinkpad user also. I have migrated to desktops. They are cheap enough to have one at the office and one at home. Sure the above wont work for everybody, but if you are like me, you unpacked the laptop at home and at work each day at exactly the same space, where all the cables and extra monitors were. I used to use laptop in coffee shops and outdoors, but nowadays between phone, and tablets (wel phone and kindle in my case) I almost never feel the need. Buy silent box, mobo for overclocking and underclock it for extra silence, and throw the box under the table. Still have my laptop, but its mostly just "backup" and in case I travel somewhere, but honestly I don't care about it as much
- albertzeyer 6y ago
  The downside with this is extra effort to keep them in sync. Depending on what you do, syncing can be easy (or even trivial if you do everything remote anyway) or more annoying.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    Rsyncing home directory worked for me for 15 years.
  - lupire 6y ago
    Carrying a disk on your commute is easier than carrying a laptop.
  - jdhawk 6y ago
    cannot say enough good things about unison https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/

Redoubts 6y ago

> 1920×1080 Come on.

siraben 6y ago

Laptops that are designed with Linux first-class support are interesting, and I've been considering to get one once I'm through with my late 2014 MBP. How do System76 and Purism compare in terms of daily drivers? Anyone tried both and could provide a comparison?

f430 6y ago

how loud is it? should've bought this....

encryptluks2 6y ago

I don't understand the appeal for System76. It seems grossly overpriced. Is it simply because they install Linux for you? You can find the same processor with much better specs for cheaper on Amazon or Costco.

bluGill 6y ago
With system 76 you get not just the processor, but also the other parts. You know System 76 didn't change network interfaces to something new with no linux drivers mid stream. Or Wifi, USB chipset, some BIOS, or one of the many other non-processor parts that manufacture change all the time. If there are drivers the substitution doesn't matter to anyone, but often there are no linux drivers for 3-6 months (best case - meaning that it isn't hard to write the driver, in the worst case linux will never get a driver). Note that for the above substitutions there often is no part number change so you have no way of knowing if the amazon/costco model will work even if it works for someone else.
- encryptluks2 6y ago
  Costco list the model and the manufacturer provides all the information about the chips on their website. If you're running a distro with a 2 year old kernel then you may have issues, but I run Arch so it works flawless. I just got a Ryzen 4600 on Costco for $429 and everything works great.
  - officeplant 6y ago
    Not everyone runs Arch or a distro with anywhere near the newest kernel. Not everyone feels like digging for posts online that show what wifi/ethernet/etc chipset a laptop is using so they know beforehand whether or not its going to be a pain in a more LTS minded distro. System76 is there for those people.
- mcguire 6y ago
  Pro-tip from an ex-university sysadmin: beware getting consumer-grade machines, and never, ever, get them if you are buying in bulk. The specs will probably all be similar, but the individual parts will be whatever was in the bin when the chassis came down the line, which means whatever was cheapest that day. Even if you get lucky and have drivers for everything, supporting 10 machines with 10 different configurations is 10 times harder than supporting hundreds of machines with one configuration.

eingaeKaiy8ujie 6y ago

Do they do anything to neutralize/disable the "AMD Secure Technology" thing (if that's even possible)?

blahyawnblah 6y ago

Why still only 1080p in the year 2021?

glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago
battery and overall compatibility. and for under 15" it is just a waste for 90% of people.

ehutch79 6y ago

Laptops with offset keyboards are difficult for me to deal with. The keyboards qwerty (or whatever layout) section should really be centered under the screen

GNU_James 6y ago

How is this ad not banned on the spot?

shmerl 6y ago

> Video Ports HDMI(w/HDCP) Would be really nice to use a proper modern DP instead of antiquated HDMI for this. Is it using Coreboot by the way?

jandrese 6y ago
HDMI is less hassle. Everything comes with a HDMI port these days, but a DP port is still more of a proper full Computer Monitor(tm) feature. My work just installed a whole bunch of projectors that have HDMI and VGA as input options. I have no idea where they found them. Of course sometimes the HDMI fails due to DRM nonsense, so that's also an issue.
- shmerl 6y ago
  I think HDMI only exists because HDMI cartel keeps pushing it for patents profits. There is no real need for it because DP is much better. But since they make HDMI only equipment, we are still stuck with it. And personally, I had a lot of problems with HDMI in the past. Unlike with DP.
  - jandrese 6y ago
    Theoretically some DRM content should refuse to play at full resolution on DP connected displays due to the lack of DRM on the cable. I've never tested this myself, but you often see requirements for things like Blu-Ray players that you have to be running a late model Intel chip, on a supported motherboard, on Windows 10, over HDMI to a supported monitor. Get anything wrong and you've got a 720p picture or a black box. Edit: Behold this list of requirements. https://www.reddit.com/r/htpc/wiki/faq#wiki_what_do_i_need_for_4k_ultrahd_compatibility.3F https://www.reddit.com/r/htpc/wiki/faq#wiki_what_do_i_need_f...
    - shmerl 6y ago
      I'm quite averse to DRM in general. For blurays there should be libaacs with keydb. DP should support HDCP as far as I know, if you need it. Seriously, HDMI should just disappear already but that corrupt cartel will keep it around for years.

nisa 6y ago

looks like the aura 15 from tuxedo computers / schenker but a little bit more expensive? https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/15-16-inch/TUXEDO-Aura-15-Gen1.tuxedo# https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note...

azangru 6y ago
Also, with a smaller battery.

Naac 6y ago

It doesn't look like there is a Thunderbolt port ( a 40 GBPS port ). I recall reading that it has something to do with it working on Intel only hardware. But whatever the case is, lack of Thunderbolt is unfortunately a deal breaker. I've moved on to unifying all my docks and power chords to only be Thunderbolt. It's unfortunate because the Ryzen chipsets are clearly getting to be superior from a price/performance point of view. EDIT: I am writing this as someone who supports System76, and has only ran Linux professionally and at home for the last 10 years.

tjoff 6y ago
Seems more sensible to me to base everything off of usb-c instead.
- aendruk 6y ago
  Thunderbolt uses USB-C since ~2015.
  - tjoff 6y ago
    Point still stands.
    - SpaceNugget 6y ago
      No it doesn't. USB Type-C is a connector shape, used by both USB and Thunderbolt. So people saying they want thunderbolt and you saying they should want USB Type-C doesn't make much sense. Imagine someone in 2001 saying they are disappointed with new computers being released without USB 2.0 (i.e. still using USB 1.1), and you replying that things should be based on Type-A. Both USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 used Type-A connectors. The shape is unrelated to the protocol/speed/etc.
      - tjoff 6y ago
        I think it was obvious beyond any reasonable doubt that I meant USB over USB-C.

rurban 6y ago

I've got the Thinkpad E495 with AMD Ryzen 3, Vega and 1TB HD, Fedora 32 for under 500€. Excellent machine, faster than anything else I got. But it was only a short time test balloon, I fear. Not available anymore.

Fergusonb 6y ago

I can't speak to the 4700u or the pangolin specifically, but I can offer this perspective on PopOS/AMD: I've been using System76's PopOS with my Asus Zephyrus G14 (4800hs) as a daily driver and I really like it. (freelance/web) The battery life is comparable to Windows (on integrated graphics mode, it has graphics switching available)at 7-10 hours with 70% brightness and balanced power settings using VScode and firefox. The g14 has a 75wh battery vs the pangolin's 49wh, so I would expect less battery life from the pangolin despite the 4700u having a lower default tdp, since the 4800hs likes to sit at around 6-10 watts when doing non-intensive tasks anyway. In 2021 I'm not missing any major programs. It's pretty incredible how much is cross-platform now.

isoos 6y ago
I was considering to buy a G14, but got distracted with other stuff. Can you please share a few details on how you use it? - What kind of external webcam do you use? Does it have any problem with any video-conferencing software? - Do you access any streaming service (with DRM)? Any issues? - Any issues with drivers, returning from sleep/hybernation? Thanks!
- gbrown 6y ago
  I use it with Fedora happily, and for work I have to use Zoom daily. I did have to replace a fan with one from Aliexpress due to rattle, but haven’t had issues since.
- shaicoleman 6y ago
  I have the Dell G5 4800H (AMD iGPU+AMD dGPU), there are a couple of graphic driver issues under Linux. I'm using the USB-C connection which is connected to the iGPU. * Locks up on suspend/resume * Locks up when inserting an external USB-C monitor * Requires a recent kernel to work properly (5.8 or later) * Locks up without amdgpu.runpm=0 kernel command line * dGPU can't be turned off, so increases power consumption * Locks up with vsync on with the dGPU * Kernel warning on startup, but doesn't affect stability Besides these issues (which can be worked around), it's very solid.

yxhuvud 6y ago

Still no 4k equivalent resolution. yawn.

foobarbecue 6y ago

Interesting choice of animal, given that Pangolins are suspected of being the source of the virus causing the COVID-19 pandemic. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210210/did-the-new-coronavirus-come-from-pangolins https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210210/did-the-new-coronav... All publicity is good publicity, I guess...

msikora 6y ago
Ha, came here to say just this.
jacurtis 6y ago
This was my immediate thought upon reading this. It is a very bizarre name choice given its potential connection to COVID-19 and that it was released during the ongoing global pandemic. Regardless of whether Pangolins are the true source of the pandemic (it is looking like that is becoming much less likely as time has gone on), the connection is still there in many people's mind and not what I would be naming my product after in 2021. Maybe in 2030 it would be safe, but this might just be a bit too soon. Surely someone at System76 has to be aware of this, which begs the question, was this naming intentional? It would have to be I imagine. It seems a bit crass to go this route in the current climate.
- officeplant 6y ago
  Given the Pangolin was used for Ubuntu 12.04 and System 76 has used previously referenced animals from Ubuntu's naming scheme before, I'd suspect that's why.

danielyaa5 6y ago

Just don't let randy near it

timwaagh 6y ago

plot twist: you get corona if you touch it.

jackcviers3 6y ago

Just switched to a Gazelle from an old IdeaPad p400 touch. Full keyboard, beautiful screen, removable battery, extensive power management options, large trackpad, multiple color adjustable brightness back-lit keyboard so I can change it to red to avoid hurting my eyes, a real gpu, and powerful as all heck. I love it.

tlhunter 6y ago

I love non-4k displays, but 1080p on a 15" is too harsh. 1440p would probably be the cutoff for that size. It seems that most developers (their target audience?) love hidpi which may be one of the biggest adoption issues for System 76.

vngzs 6y ago

I'd buy one if they had high DPI panels. Even 16:10 would be a significant improvement; 1080 vertical pixels feels awfully cramped these days.

kevinherron 6y ago

Too bad it has that numpad instead of a centered keyboard. Also I don't understand why a laptop of that size doesn't have a 99Wh battery. The 1080p resolution is understandable... high DPI support suck-fest can be avoided.

lhl 6y ago
Last year I bought a 4800H Tongfang PF5NU1G (sold as the Tuxedo Pulse 15, KDE Slimbook, and by Laptop with Linux, among other places) that has a centered keyboard and a 91Wh battery that's a better option than this Pangolin, but availability has been pretty scarce.

xvilka 6y ago

Does it use coreboot?

antattack 6y ago

Given that Display specs are not front-and-center, my guess it's a TFT panel. Combine that with 1080p resolution and this laptop is might (no GtG or refresh specs) be good for gaming but not any serious typing or designing.

al_chemist 6y ago
How serious is your typing?
- antattack 6y ago
  Sometimes, when I type colon and close parenthesis people laugh. But, that's an exception.
numpad0 6y ago
Sure it’s not DSTN?

acd 6y ago

Nice price on the extras, fairly cheap upgrade parts such as cpu and memory.

stakkur 6y ago

I really like System76, and what they're trying to do. But their mediocre laptop keyboards are always the deal breaker for me--it's the chief human interface, and the one component I don't want to compromise on.

bogwog 6y ago
> and what they're trying to do What is it that they're trying to do? Sell re-branded Sager laptops?
Sosh101 6y ago
Yeah it's telling that on the specs page, the keyboard doesn't even get a mention.
bbpp 6y ago
I have a Darter Pro 2019 and I also have two ThinkPads (T490 and W510) and I can say the Darter Pro is not half bad. The layout is "different" but not bad once you get used to it. The feel is pretty good. Not as good as the W510 but comparable to the T490. Even the trackpad on the Darter Pro is smooth. I agree with the overall sentiment though that it's time for a premium-designer-made-for-linux-laptop!

wffurr 6y ago

Yikes that keyboard. Small right-shift key, weird narrow numpad, off-center trackpad. Do people actually like that kind of layout? It seems pretty awful to me. I'd prefer no numpad at all and a full size shift key with half-height arrow keys. If I want a numpad, that's what desktop keyboards are for, or a USB numpad.

marshray 6y ago
I have a laptop with that basically that exact same keyboard. It's not too bad. In practice, I find the flush surface hidden mouse buttons to be more problematic. I would never want a numeric keypad on a laptop, but apparently it's a selling feature and it's near impossible to find a larger-screen laptop without one. I find whether minor things like the off-center trackpad bug me tends to reflect more about my current state of mind than anything else.
bityard 6y ago
For the last 20 years, "has a numpad" has been one my qualifying criteria for buying a laptop. I need a numpad, because I type long-ish numbers into my computer all the time. IP addresses, phone numbers, and simple arithmetic problems are probably my top three uses. If I had to suffer with only a number row on a day-to-day basis, I'm sure I'd have some kind of RSI by now. The number row is too far away from the home keys to be of more than occasional use.
- marshray 6y ago
  The num pad is much farther away from the home row than the number keys, which touch typists reach without needing to move hand position.

rplnt 6y ago

10MB of unnecessary large (2560x3842) PNGs on a product page. It's not a gallery, it just makes it slow to load.

lupire 6y ago

What's the price difference to comparable hardware from other vendors (and other OSes)?

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Someone on here yesterday suggested a Lenovo Slim 7, which seems broadly comparable, this review covers a few other similar models https://www.theverge.com/21423498/lenovo-ideapad-slim-7-2020-amd-review https://www.theverge.com/21423498/lenovo-ideapad-slim-7-2020.... Note, I'm in UK "slim 7" here is used by Lenovo for a "Yoga" model whilst the poster mentioned an "IdeaPad". I assumed that as I searched for the latter and got the former that they must be different regional names. But, no. They're very different with very similar model names. Lenovo seem to do this a lot and it's very annoying.

brianolson 6y ago

I have their 13-ish/14-ish laptop from 2017, 3200x1600 display. It's great. Damn shame they don't have anything high-dpi now. 15" 1920x1080 is unacceptable. 1920x1080 is the new 1366x768.

thefz 6y ago
I am avid for System76 direct user experience. How's the machine-OS integration going on so far? An I agree that 1080 now is a 13-14'' display resolution only nowadays.

jonplackett 6y ago

Anyone know the battery life? Interested to see Ryzen 4000 VS M1.

paulcarroty 6y ago

Is this laptop designed by System76 or yet another Clevo re-brand?

rychco 6y ago

I previously bought a Thelio desktop from System76 and it was great. I ended up upgrading and basically took all the parts from it except motherboard and cpu. I still use PopOS as my daily driver and have no reason to ever switch to anything else. Drivers always work and updates are painless. Major version upgrades are always smooth. I haven’t had any external hardware compatibility issues (though to be fair this isn’t just PopOS, but Linux in general improving). I’m a huge fan of PopOS.

okennedy 6y ago
+1 It might be a bit pricy, but the tech support is amazing. I just spent a few weeks working with them to debug a transient kernel panic with my new Thelio. Throughout the entire process, I talked to support techs with actual agency, and not just automata reading a script. Serious kudos to System76. (The problem ultimately turned out to be a clearly labeled experimental feature I'd turned on a few months earlier and forgotten about. Ooops...) The Thelio is my daily driver, and PopOS just fades into the background.

glglwty 6y ago

I get system76's coreboot offering looks interesting because there aren't many vendors shipping that feature. What's the appeal of their other products though?

princevegeta89 6y ago

Honestly why do I need to spend so much money on a Linux laptop? I have my inspiron with 11th generation i3 and an 8gb of RAM, rocking both Linux Mint and Zorin with 0 problems. Oh, and Pop OS runs great too!

fnord77 6y ago

I don't understand why many of these workstation-class laptops have num. pads. It is so annoying to type with your hands off-center from the screen.

echelon 6y ago
They're optimizing for the professional accounting Olympics use case.
tastyfreeze 6y ago
I don't understand why many workstation-class laptops DONT have a num pads. It is so annoying to have to type long sequences of digits without one.
- echelon 6y ago
  Do numbers constitute even 5% of your keyboard usage time?
  - urthor 6y ago
    Excel users yes.
  - i80and 6y ago
    Depends on what you're doing: any kind of 3D work requires a numpad to be effective, since that's typically where camera controls are bound in every workflow I've seen.
    - spijdar 6y ago
      I'll say I personally can't use numpads, and they're total wasted space for me, so I try to avoid them on my keyboards and laptops, especially because they put the keyboard off-center on said laptops. However, I think there are use cases and people who prefer using them. Some software is really geared around the full cluster being there. I've got a full size, numpad-ed keyboard (some old stock DEC thing that went to a mid 90s alphastation I believe, I got it for dirt cheap) attached to my "windows gaming machine", and I use the numpad on a few shortcut-heavy games. Otherwise, though, I just don't have any muscle memory for it. I have to look and hunt/peck for keys on a numpad. I'm mostly using bash and vim for work, though...

mturilin 6y ago

I just can understand people creating non HiDPI displays in 2021. It’s just beyond me that someone is making laptops with display much worse than my 2012 MBP Retina.

av8avenger 6y ago
Totally agree with you. I use my MBP mostly on native resolution if my screen gets really crowded and on the other hand it's nice when you're doing creative work and can switch to a downscaled image with so much more "smoothness" and details. I like the specs of this Pangolin notebook, but as soon as i saw 1080p i was gone.
baybal2 6y ago
> I just can understand people creating non HiDPI displays in 2021. Because they still sell. Back around 2 decades ago, we had a funny thing in Russia where people demanded 640x480 monitors back, and even bought, and sold them on premium because new 1024x768 monitors "make everything so tiny!"
dmos62 6y ago
I've no use for a hidpi display. I've a use for lower power usage though. If I don't care about power usage, I'll be using a desktop anyway. Plus the price is probably pretty different. I know decent external budget 4k monitors are non existant.
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p1mrx 6y ago

I don't think I'd buy a laptop in 2021 without USB-C PD charging.

frederir 6y ago

I stopped at FHD display. WTF can we have at least a QHD resolution on a 15.6" ?

Antoninus 6y ago

This but thinkpad keyboard.

pier25 6y ago

Why do they use such ugly fonts for the keyboard? It's an immediate turn off.

spijdar 6y ago
Probably because it's (likely) a Clevo NL51RU or something similar and they use these gamer-y legends. [0] [0] https://clevo-computer.com/media/image/15/da/88/CLEVO-NL51RU-MOBILER-PROZESSOR-DER-SERIE-AMD-RYZEN-4000-AMD-RADEON-GRAFIK-3.jpg https://clevo-computer.com/media/image/15/da/88/CLEVO-NL51RU...
- pier25 6y ago
  My question was rather "why would anyone use such an ugly font on a keyboard?" :)

ptcampbell 6y ago

I like System 76 and I use Pop OS on a desktop PC. I don't know how else to say this but crikey, these machines are ugly. Edit: I expect to be downvoted, and this is just my unhelpful, subjective opinion. But the font on those keys looks like one you'd get from a 90s shareware kit of 100 free fonts.

tristor 6y ago

I want to love this, but the keyboard seems horrible. I know I'm exceptionally picky when it comes to keyboards, I usually just take a 60% mechanical keyboard with me, but I've been able to adjust to using the (non-crappy years) Macbook Pro keyboard and the Thinkpad keyboards while traveling, and generally find them acceptable. This keyboard though has really bad legends, an inexplicable numpad, and it takes up too much real estate when I'd rather have a trackpoint and a larger touchpad. Also, the screen resolution and size seems odd. I'm okay with a 1080P screen... but not at nearly 16". This should be offered with a 3K or 4K screen only.

ur-whale 6y ago
I've never bought a laptop without a numpad and would never even consider a laptop that doesn't have one. There are tons of apps, specifically in the video editing / 3D modeling space that are basically unusable without one. When I code, I have macros tied to numpad keys. Couldn't work without them. If all you do is browse the web and answer email on your laptop, then yeah, makes sense. For any serious work, no numpad = no buy.
- mvanaltvorst 6y ago
  Do you really feel like you would be constrained by the amount of shortcuts on a keyboard without a numpad? There are so many different combinations you can make once you include control/alt/fn etc. Sure, if you're used to shortcuts on a numpad I can see how it might hinder your productivity for a few weeks. However, working on a smaller keyboard will definitely not constrain the amount of flexibility you have in the long term once you get used to other shortcuts. You might even become more productive on a smaller keyboard, because it takes less effort to stay on the home row and find keys.
- tristor 6y ago
  I probably feel differently, because I'm used to using shortcuts and macros on a TKL (or smaller) keyboard. There are many different ways to achieve that, but for instance on my 60% mechanical keyboards I have between 3 and 14 layers (depending on keyboard firmware) which can be accessed with modifiers and trigger macros. There are significantly more combinations available to me on a 60% keyboard or on a laptop keyboard, with appropriate tooling, than is available on a numpad. I've been doing "serious work" for my entire career, thanks, although these days I do spend more time in Zoom meetings and writing emails/documents.

peanut_worm 6y ago

Pricing doesn’t seem that bad. I wish they’d elaborate on what “AND Radeon Graphics” means specifically

lhl 6y ago
It doesn't have a dGPU specced, so it looks like it's just the APU graphics. That's a Vega 6 for the 4500U and Vega 7 for the 4700U. This may be useful for placing that performance in context: https://benchmarks.ul.com/hardware/gpu/AMD+Radeon+RX+Vega+7+(Ryzen+4000+Mobile)+review https://benchmarks.ul.com/hardware/gpu/AMD+Radeon+RX+Vega+7+...

gbolcer 6y ago

System 76 is well known for the linux laptops, aka mobile workstations. I've owned a few over the years.

albertTJames 6y ago

This name triggers some deep and still ongoing trauma

glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago

Supporting system76, librem, etc was once about investing in support for linux.... Yet those companies provide zero contributions, rebadge open source projects, and just re-sell taiwanese white-label computers while going great lengths to hide that and fake innovation. if pcpartpicker.com adds a single checkbox to their searchs: "[ ] support in mainline linux kernel", it would make more good to linux support than all those companies combined. Also, barrel charger plugs? ugh.

joshuamcginnis 6y ago

Just picked up a Thinkpad P14s with the 4750u (8 core 16 threads) for about $600 using corporateperks.com discount. Spent another $250 for 1tb m.2 and 32gb ram upgrade. The value is tremendous.

cassepipe 6y ago

Has it an aluminum chassis? The plastic always breaks with time

JediPig 6y ago

asus zephryus is a better buy, as much I would love to purchase the system76. Core of it, is it at least 20% higher margins. The Ryzen 5000 is out, I highly recommend either going for Asus Zephryus or wait for lenovo's mobile 5000 AMD lands.

ChuckMcM 6y ago

Love it, I really hope the idea of more 'crafted' laptops and computers catches on. Ideally with more open source and more repairability. It is something I miss from the "good old days."

tbrock 6y ago

This is a compelling laptop I wonder if the build quality will compare with Lenovo. 15.6 inch screen at 1920×1080? That’s barely OK but not great for a laptop in 2021.

VectorLock 6y ago

Its all exciting until you see the accountant's 10 key hanging off the side. :(

anta40 6y ago

Pangolin 15 looks interesting. Compared to the latest Thinkpad X1 Carbon, I wonder how bulky the thing is. Sure display wise, it's bigger.

paranoidrobot 6y ago

I'll give System76 (and their hardware partner) this: They're getting closer to something I'd buy. This looks like a good option for a 15.6" laptop. My issue with it is that they're still shipping with those barrel plugs AC adapters, and don't appear to support USB-PD for charging on the USB-C ports. The lack of Australian support also makes it a difficult purchase - a former colleague bought a System76 laptop a few years back and it died a few months after purchase. Having to ship it back to the US, and the associated delays means having to buy a second laptop to continue working while it's being repaired.

deepsun 6y ago
Don't they support USB-C charging? I compared the other days all their models, those that rated at 65W all supported USB-C charging.
- paranoidrobot 6y ago
  I don't think so. Clevo are known to be the OEM behind many (all?) of System76's laptops. In Australia they're sold under the brand of Metabox. The System76 Pangolin tech specs[1] match the Metabox Edge specs[2] and visually match as far as I can tell identically, and neither mention USB-PD or Charging capability. Metabox specifically call out USB-PD capability on their other range of laptops, so I don't think it's an omission. [1] https://system76.com/laptops/pangolin#specs https://system76.com/laptops/pangolin#specs [2] https://www.metabox.com.au/store/Edge-Range/Specs https://www.metabox.com.au/store/Edge-Range/Specs
  - deepsun 6y ago
    Here they do: https://system76.com/guides/lemp10 https://system76.com/guides/lemp10 Notice "65W+ USB Type-C Charging Compatible" in specs.
    - paranoidrobot 6y ago
      That's a different laptop.

xbar 6y ago

After some consideration, I am going to buy a System76 computer. I want them to succeed.

deleted 6y ago

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INTPenis 6y ago

A dragable laptop with a numpad. No thanks. What programmer or devops consultant needs a numpad? Unless they're coding in hex. I long for a ~13-14" 2k AMD Ryzen ultrabook. So far the screen is always subpar. I've been using 2560 resolution on my X1 yoga now for 2 years and I can't go back to 1080.

ficklepickle 6y ago

Has anyone in Canada ordered from system76? I'd expect to get dinged for GST or HST, but were there any additional surprise brokerage fees or duties? This thing is really up my alley and I just got my first decently paying, steady software job...

HelloNurse 6y ago

Is it normal for it to use somewhat old processors (4500U and 4700U) instead of the new ones that have been available for quite a long time like the 5700U and 5800U?