57 ms·

Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

358 points by metahost 6y ago

uniqueid 6y ago
Apple's previous MacBook plan was stupid stupid. I just can't bring myself to view 'several different ports' as a stroke of genius.
- uniqueid 6y ago
  To save someone the time: 'it can't be stupid if it sold <x million> units'
  - riffraff 6y ago
    It can still stupid be if a different obvious one could have sold more or made more profit. For example, almost everyone thought the butterfly keys were a terrible idea. They sold a ton of devices with that, but then they switched back anyway.
    - uniqueid 6y ago
      I agree. Besides, there are many stupid decisions that sell better than smart ones, short term.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    It sold well because the competition is still worse. It doesn't mean you should intentionally make it worse just because you can get away with it (there's an argument that making it worse to lower cost thus earning more profit, but I doubt the added complexity of USB-C made the new design any cheaper).
acjohnson55 6y ago
I've said this in probably a dozen HN comments over the years, but my 2010 MBP is still my favorite computer of all time. It has a matte screen and 4TB of upgradable onboard storage. It was frustrating watching MBPs move progressively farther away from the features I really loved on that machine. Eventually, I jumped ship for the PC world again, where I found the hardware much more inspired. The Airs are already quite powerful machines. Let them carry forward the legacy of the direction of the past several years, and make a truly differentiated offering for folks who do most of their work docked. Also, a hill I will die on is that the Touchbar should have been a new UI paradigm at the bottom of a touchscreen. I'd also dig a Touchbar accessory for my keyboard tray. Just saying. But for the love of god, keep it off my F-key row.
- kradeelav 6y ago
  Cosigned, and writing this comment on my own faithful 2010 MBP. Still works like a charm, even if some sites don't load due to legacy browsers. Having the correct USB plug-ins for my old-but-durable wacom tablet and an internal CD drive is still critical for my usage and I can't believe some of those parts were the first to go in the madness. Currently tempted to switch to the M1, but still worried about loosing the parts mentioned.
  - blue1 6y ago
    Seconded. But why legacy browsers? My mid-2010 MBP, still going strong, runs High Sierra, which supports all current browsers.
    - beckler 6y ago
      I have a early 2011 MBP on High Sierra. I recently reported a bug to Mozilla that I was experiencing in Firefox. They couldn't reproduce it, but it was essentially the integrated graphics are so old in this machine that their new render engine was causing major glitching issues. The solution was to hard code the use of the previous engine for older laptops. This, among a number of other issues made me decide to recently upgrade... but hearing about these old-but-new features makes me want to cancel my order and wait it out a bit longer.
- dijksterhuis 6y ago
  > my 2010 MBP is still my favorite computer of all time Seconded. Mine has dents all over the body, battery has been replaced a few times, upped the memory and replaced the optical drive with 1TB storage. It's performed surprisingly well for over 10 years. Once had to visit the "geniuses" to replace the logic board after a few years, but that's it really. Its worked in pubs behind the bar, as a live mixer for audio gigs, as a development machine, as a university note making machine... Although now I've got what seems to be a hardware fault with the display where black pixels turn bright green. That and the fact the speakers and microphone are shot to pieces means I'll have to move on soon. End of an era for me. I will miss this machine dearly. -- On jumping ship: if I can work out a way to get iTunes + Apple Music running reliably on Linux I'll be jumping over there asafp. Not liking the software direction (news/rumours?) Apple has taken recently.
georgebarnett 6y ago
Weird. My 2016 12” MacBook is still almost my favourite machine. I say almost because the M1’s speed is _incredible_, but I do miss the smaller size and flatter keyboard.
Pfhreak 6y ago
I am really happy that my macbook uses usb c. I'm sad to hear that it is going away. Today, my Mac interoperates with all my other devices, I can keep one charger running to the edge of the couch. It's not the end of the world to flip back to the magsafe, but it's definitely not ideal for me (and I suspect others.)
- linux2647 6y ago
  Who’s to say you couldn’t have both? HN cynics aside, given that Apple is invested in USB-C/Thunderbolt, I would imagine that you could charge with either MagSafe or USB-C
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    This would be great.
- lambdasquirrel 6y ago
  There's some rumors that it'll have Magsafe and USB-C.
- emptyparadise 6y ago
  I like the premise of a single universal port but over the years it turned out to be kind of bullshit because there is no single "USB Type C" - there's 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, USB4, Thunderbolt and god knows what else. There are all sorts of weird incompatible peripherals and even cables that at best will not work and at worst will fry your device. I like USB-C (whatever variety it is that allows for docks with display connectivity) as a docking port, but it failed to solve the connectivity problem otherwise - it's the same mess of weird ports underneath, but now without the ability to quickly guess with a good degree of confidence if a device will work with your computer or not based on the port shape. I think I'd much rather have both USB-C and standard USB-A/HDMI/SD card ports.
  - 6y ago
cpgonzalez 6y ago
The article's criticism of the 12-inch MacBook are preposterous. The 2 lb Macbook is the best laptop I've ever owned, by far. Maybe I'm too sensitive about weight, but I feel an incredible difference between 3 lb and 2 lb laptops, especially if its sitting on your lap for extended periods of time. The keyboard and charger have never once been a hindrance to my workflow, as the article makes it out be. I really wish Apple would come out with 2 lb laptops again. Latest line of Macbooks (the "Air") weigh in at 2.8 lb minimum.
- jeppesen-io 6y ago
  I can't upvote this enough. Everytime I pull out the MacBook 12 I just feel joy using it
- asiachick 6y ago
  I agree I wish Apple would find a way to make a 16inch MBP weight 3lbs and an Air weigh 2lbs. It *seems* possible given an 12.9 inch iPad Pro only weighs 1.4lbs and other manufacturers have entries in that range. For whatever reason this idea always gets downvoted but I believe it will happen someday and every who downvoted will suddenly "get it".
  - MrRiddle 6y ago
    I assume they could do it, but by reducing battery life to what it was before. However, if you can’t bare a laptop heavier than 2lbs may I suggest you’re in the wrong line of work.
  - deergomoo 6y ago
    > I wish Apple would find a way to make a 16inch MBP weight 3lbs This could be reasonably possible with Apple silicon—well, maybe not 3lbs, but noticeably lighter than the current model. Part of the reason the 16” is so heavy is the 100Whr battery (which still manages to be woefully inadequate due to how much power the CPU sucks, let alone the GPU). The 13” ASi Pro has a 58Whr battery for “up to 17 hours” use, which seems to pan out to about 12-14 hours real-world usage. They could put that exact battery in an ASi 16” and it would still be leagues better than the “up to 11 hours” battery in the current model, which in my experience is actually 3-5 hours.
emptyparadise 6y ago
Sounds too good to be true.
lilyball 6y ago
I’m really hoping this rumor is false. I want the 13” M1 MBP scaled up to 16”. I don’t want an SD card, F keys, MagSafe, or any of the rest of that.
- sitkack 6y ago
  I want the M1 MBA scaled to 16", I do want SD card, F keys, and MagSafe.
BluSyn 6y ago
My controversial hot take-- I have never needed an SD card, and have gone all-in on USB-C. I will be very disappointed if they add back in USB-A/HDMI/SD ports, or remove USB-C charging in favor of proprietary charge port. Sounds like unnecessary feature bloat. Please just do MagSage + USB-C, so I can maintain my one-cable-for-everything, making traveling lighter and simpler. Here's my counter argument to all those that love MagSafe: makes traveling a huge hassle, forcing me to carry a special charge brick that only works for ONE device. In 2021 going forward, I will flat refuse to spend money on anything that doesn't use USB-C or Qi charging. I can now travel with a single 2xUSB-C power brick, and charge all devices from the same cable. This is a huge step forward, please don't reverse this. I am all for removing the TouchBar. The new MacBook Air with TouchID + physical function keys is a perfect combination of features. There are a few things about the TouchBar I do like -- eg, having a custom one-touch screen lock button that's always present. However vast majority of the time I use external keyboard+trackpad+monitor, so the touchbar can't be part of my usual workflow anyway. Removing this reduces cost and complexity. Please. Just keep it simple.
- riffraff 6y ago
  They could put the magnet as an end of a usb cable. You would still use the same brick, and just plug a different cable if you want to charge a different device. Seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.
  - rozab 6y ago
    That would just defeat the point of having USB-C charging. Only the one proprietary cable would stay in the port.
- Brajeshwar 6y ago
  May I suggest a little different look at the use of SD Card slot on your MacBook (Pro). About 5 years back, I had one of those SD Drive stick-in for MacBook Pro that stays there. There were few (Nifty Drive, MiniDrive, etc). The primary use I see are; 1. Have a clone backup of your primary drive. (Carbon Copy Cloner, SuperDuper, Time Machine). 2. Have an extra storage handy for a rather economical price without lugging around an extra drive.
lambdasquirrel 6y ago
On one hand, this seems like welcome news for many of us. Who doesn't miss MagSafe? A lot of the previous years was like someone at Apple read Calvino's Six Memos and took the notes on "lightness" a little bit too far. On the other hand, one wonders if we'll have to replace all the sleeves and bags that have been made with the previous dimensions in mind. Hopefully not. Even the new 16-inch MacBook Pro fits in sleeves and bags designed for the previous 15-inch.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  Not only does the 16” fit the 15” sleeves, it’s nearly identical in dimensions and weight to the 15” models everyone praises before the bad keyboards. It’s basically a 2015 MBP with a slightly smaller bezel.
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    Apparently someone disagrees with this statement of facts about the measurable dimensions that are trivially verifiable.
- dwaite 6y ago
  > On one hand, this seems like welcome news for many of us. Who doesn't miss MagSafe? I don't miss MagSafe 2. The laptops had gotten light enough that the selling point (would come detached if someone snagged the cord) meant that the magnet had to be weakened. The cord constantly came undone. Bits attracted by the magnet would be lodged in the port sometimes, interfering with the charging in odd ways as well. I had a lot of Magsafe 1 chargers, which compounded the frustration. I had to use a little magnetic dongle. The cord was attached to the brick directly, so when it frayed (not if, when) you were out $100. Your brick was now a brick. It was a big charger I couldn't use to charge anything else I travelled with (phone, ipad, headphones, etc), _and_ there were zero third party accessories (battery packs, etc) that worked with it because it was proprietary/patent protected. If laptops have enough power to go 12+ hours on a single charge, the value of magsafe goes way down. I'm not operating the thing on a kitchen table with a cord draped down and across the room to the wall. I am charging it overnight. Not to mention, there's a huge benefit of sitting down at a desk and having a single USB-C/TB cable to plug in to get connected to everything, including power. If the choice was magsafe or USB-C charging, I'd pay extra for USB-C.
aetherspawn 6y ago
I'm sure someone smart will design a way for USB-C to plug into your MacBook without the risk of ripping out your I/O board if you trip over the cable. We don't need magsafe, we just need some sort of clever springy socket.
- dwaite 6y ago
  The USB standard is pretty specific about connectors; I doubt the resulting connector would be licensed to be called USB.
sitkack 6y ago
The keyboard! I have an M1 mac, I typing this from a 2012 macbook air. The new keyboards are utter crap! They are still crap. If I could have the M1 in an x220 shell, with the mac trackpad, I would be good.
- genuine_smiles 6y ago
  Have you tried the 2019 16” MacBook Pro keyboard?
  - sitkack 6y ago
    Ok, I just switched back to the M1 from the 2012 MBA. Keyboard is just too shallow and key travel is just too short. It is improved over the butterfly but it still isn't as good as the 2012. The machine you mention is my work machine, but it has been docked and I haven't really broken in the keyboard. The previous work machine which I typed in probably 20k words a day was a butterfly keyboard mac. I hate that machine with a passion, I want to buy it back from my employer and bisect it with a plasma torch.
    - boudewijnrempt 6y ago
      I actually like the feel of my M1 pro keyboard better than my 1015 15" macbook pro's keyboard. But... That weird lcd strip constantly flickering in the periphery of my vision makes me want to throw the laptop out of the window. Good thing it isn't my main working machine, just a device to make fat binaries of Krita on.
  - jspash 6y ago
    I'm typing this from a 2019 16" MBP keyboard. And I can say without a doubt that it is my favourite keyboard of probably 10 macs I've ever owned. There is a Macbook Air sitting nearby which I just tried for comparison. It's pretty good too. But the MBP 16" is just lovely. Quiet. Enough feedback. The only gripe is, and this might be true of all Mac backlit keyboards. Is that I can see light coming from under the keys when viewing it at a low angle such as when I've got my feet up and it's on my lap. Not just through the letters, but little slivers of light under each one.
rckoepke 6y ago
I'd love if it had an excellent webcam. I imagined the M1 would have a better webcam than the 2015 Retina MBP but instead the newest built-in webcams are significantly worse in quality. I'd imagine including a camera system from an iPhone would make a huge difference for Apple's users given the popularity of remote meetings these days.
- dwaite 6y ago
  Unfortunately the back lid is not thick enough for that - even the iPhone isn't thick enough for the iPhone camera system, hence the "bump". I actually wouldn't mind something closer to the iPad + magic keyboard design in a pro macbook, which would have the thickness needed for a significantly better camera.
  - johnwalkr 6y ago
    Why not have a bump in the MacBook screen with a small penalty in trackpad size?
    - Toutouxc 6y ago
      Because it's ugly. It's just not an elegant Apple-ish solution.
    - least 6y ago
      I'd imagine because for the vast majority of people they'd appreciate the trackpad size more and the webcams are already serviceable.
  - yoz-y 6y ago
    iPhone and iPad front facing cameras do not need a bump and they run circles around the crap in MacBooks though.
maz1b 6y ago
For what it's worth, I have a fully specced out out 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro with 64gb of RAM and the 5600m upgrade, and I can frankly say that these rumored MacBooks are actually exciting compared to what I have. What I feel strongly that Apple should do: - Allow for USB-C AND MagSafe charging (MagSafe 2 would be ideal but I won't be upset if it's something else) - Ensure that the 4 USB-C ports are all equally capable of bandwidth and don't suffer from any drawbacks in that regard. - Great thermals / fan noise and still handle demanding workflows - No Touchbar. I love the idea, but it should be in addition to the Fn keys, on top of it, or in some other way.
grishka 6y ago
The last paragraph mentioning touchscreens is weird. Please don't add a touchscreen to a device running a desktop OS. 99% of people won't be using it anyway, but it would lead to those atrocious spacious phone-style UIs I despise so much.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  Give a MacBook to a child and she will likely try to touch the screen. Because at this point a touch interface is expected by people. Even me who is used to non touch screens user interfaces, I tend to touch the screen on a non touchscreen laptop once in a while. It's frustrating that it doesn't work, because it does work on my ThinkPad and I enjoy it. Apple not having a touchscreen option on their high end laptops is weird, since they did so well with the iPhone and the iPad. At least that would help developers to implement touch interfaces for iOs. Or not feel dated for the younger generations.
  - grishka 6y ago
    IMO it's important to maintain a clear separation and not blur the line between desktops and tablets. Desktop UIs are dense, they're your tools to get your job done as efficiently as possible. You can position the mouse pointer quickly and with great precision, so there is no need for ample spacing between the controls. It's okay when a professional tool has some learning curve to it, but after you're past that, it's a joy to use. And no, desktop UI design shouldn't be informed by phones and tablets. When designing a desktop UI, you should pretend touchscreens were never invented. That being said, I do know one person who has a Windows laptop with a touchscreen and does occasionally tap or scroll something on it. Myself, as someone who has never owned one of these, I maintain this clear separation between mobile and desktop in my head and have never had the thought of touching my laptop screen except to clean it.
    - speedgoose 6y ago
      The current trend in user interfaces is not to design for desktop but for mobile first, because that's where the large majority of users are. Of course you have exceptions, when a company develops an application only for desktop for example or when a company can afford developing and maintaining many versions of one user interface. Already today it's very fine to use a laptop with a touchscreen on most websites. And actually most of desktop apps are also possible to use while not always super nice. The screens are quite large so it's not that bad to hit a specific area. I agree the mouse is a lot more precise when you are good with a mouse, but a mouse also needs more training than a touch screen to be used fast and accurately. It will always be a market for old fashioned desktop apps, maybe Apple is going for it, perhaps some GNU/Linux folks too, but I think the industry is not targeting devices without touch interfaces.
layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
Cool! On top of this if they would reintroduce the headphone jack on the iPhone, they would completely redeem themselves in my books.
- underseacables 6y ago
  Now that’s just crazy talk. Apple? Never. That is one mistake they will ever walk back on. It took a LOT of courage[0] to remove it. [0]. https://splinternews.com/profiles-in-courage-the-product-managers-who-removed-a-1793861730 https://splinternews.com/profiles-in-courage-the-product-man...
  - c17r 6y ago
    I don’t care that they removed the analog in favor of digital, I'm annoyed that it’s just. One. Port. Give me two lightning ports so I can use headphones and charge without resorting to a dongle and I’ll go along with it. As it is I haven’t bought a new iPhone since my 6S plus.
wodenokoto 6y ago
I think everybody is forgetting that apple repurposed the name “MagSafe”. I think “MagSafe and new ports” translate to having a magnetic area where you can place a iPhone 12 MagSafe charger or charge your iPhone 12. What new keyboard translate to, I have no good guesses, but I do have a feeling that if you think it’ll be 2015 keyboard you’re in for a disappointment.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >I think everybody is forgetting that apple repurposed the name “MagSafe”. Well, they could trivially just multi-use it for all kinds of magnetic+safe ports, whether they are the round iPhone ones or the more traditional ones. >What new keyboard translate to, I have no good guesses, but I do have a feeling that if you think it’ll be 2015 keyboard you’re in for a disappointment. They have already fixed the 2016-2019 keyboard issue in 2019 models, so why would people be "in for a dissapointment"? It's not like they'll go back to the 2016-2019 era keyboard mechanisms...
zxcvbn4038 6y ago
This is a really exciting development! Everything I miss from the 2013 MacBook Pro - no final word on what ports are being added or if they are bringing back the SD slot, but MagSafe, a working keyboard, and an escape key are themselves welcome. The touch bar ended up being completely useless except for muting/unmuting zoom calls and smashing the left hand side seventeen times in a row until it finally registers as an escape key - I guess Apple devs don’t use vi. I was thrilled to have Touch ID at first but ultimately it only gets used in the control panel because apparently Apple doesn’t let anything else use it. I largely stopped using u2f keys because it was too much of a pain to dig up a usb-a dongle and I didn’t want to spend $50 on a usb-c form key that still doesn’t work on iOS.
- awll 6y ago
  If you are a vi user, you could consider using CTRL-[ instead of escape. I find this to be more comfortable and quicker to use anyways and you wouldn't need to use the touch bar anymore
  - mozey 6y ago
    I like mapping jk (and kj) to escape. For lefties I imagine df (and fd) would be more convenient. Both sequences are unlikely to appear in any words. They're on the home keys, so least effort to move your hands. https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key
lovelyviking 6y ago
Since 2015 I cannot even choose Mac Book Pro that would just fit for work with all that idiocy with touch bars, malfunctioning keyboards, lack of SD card slot and idiotic dongles, instead of working horse that has everything you need and makes things simpler, not harder. But even MBP 2015 had gracefully died just recently having the best user care from me you can possibly imagine. This really encourages to move away from Macs. I do not wish to pay premium money for shitty equipment. This 2015 model have just fallen apart, starting with screws that by some unknown to me reason where unscrewing themselves and you cannot not tight them back because some idiot made them non standard to make sure you really cannot do it, not even with the knife. Then I discovered that screen has traces of buttons after closing the lid. Then I discovered those small traces are unremovable. Nice design. Then battery even with a proper care died anyway after third of a cycles it suppose to have. Then SD Card slot was reading only some of the cards, while cheap neighbour’s laptop had no problem reading all of them. Then I discovered that connecting MBP to external monitor gets it heated too much to the level that loud funs make it unusable. Then internal screen stopped working completely. Then after some time this shit failed to boot at all ( even with external display). I should also mention power cord ( with cheap plastic) that became yellow and was not always connecting , while it was carefully kept from banding too much. HDMI that in critical situation did not work, with the best cable you can get. Mac OS that was constantly confusing where the main screen is, forgetting the ‘mirror’ option at will and so on.... Overall the experience is horrible. I have other models from previous years and nothing like that had happened. And I am told MBP 15inch mid2015 is considered to be one of the best models from recent years, as after mid 2015 models are even worse, not mentioning lack connectivity that renders them useless for mobility I need. So looking at the way Mac is made these days finally I hear something sane as I am not at all convinced they would continue to sell ‘tons of Macs’ in the following years otherwise. I think only inertia saves them in such situation but for how long? In my case I cannot move from the platform now because naively I’ve decided to write a ‘proper File Manager’ for Mac. I am using what I wrote and I simply cannot live without it. I also cannot leave it unfinished as this would be a huge waste of effort. So I’ll have to finish it, and only then think of porting it to other platforms. Right now I do not know even what do. Buy another 2015 one ?which could fall apart just as this one did? Buy new model? But which new model? They do not even have a model I need and looking at the quality of the shit I was counting on ... well, I see really no good options. Those with Touch-bars are unacceptable, smaller screens then 15 inch too. I would actually wish 17 inch for work in case some one sane from apple is reading. I wish model that have _all_ possible connections including USB3 which are still around a lot so I would not have to think about those stupid issues and concentrate on my work. And I have a lot of work. This is the way and how it _should be_ with a ‘proper laptop’. Concentrate all _necessary_ ports_ on one left side at least pwr and video ports so I would not have dongkes or “Y” shape wires when you hold machine whike connected to external screen. Put only redundancy ports on the other side, and yes we need redundancy ports. Bring magsafe back, this was good as long as the cable is not cheap-made so it can band nicely if required. Having IRreceiver never hurts anyone especially those who have bought apple IR remote. I was using it when teaching tango for controlling music remotely so I do not have to run to the machine each time I wish to say something. It was so convenient, now for the same thing I had to make custom dongle with arduino. There is no need for huge trackpad, the previous size was good enough and calming because you do not worry about palm faulty touches. Half sized left/right keys where better then full sized, so you would not confuse them with alt-key. Why there is no ctrl on the right side? It inconsistent with left side and inconsistent with full-sized keyboards for muscle memory. And do not dare to remove it from big ones, please. Oh yes, and bring me back my line-in as separated socket! Big thanks to one ’smart genius’ who removed it in 2015 model, combining it with phones port. Also this ‘genius’ made sure to activate it _only_ automatically with Apple headphones to create as much troubles as possible to connect my guitar on the go. More then that, when you connect phones to listen what you are recording, and already agree to stupidity of recording sketch through the mic instead of a proper line-in you cannot choose what mic to use. Thus you cannot choose one built-in , so you end up recording with mic on the phones wire near your neck hitting your shirt or guitar as you play. ‘thank you very very very much’ for that. It has spoiled many good moods. I wander about those who design those Mac Book Pro’s ... did they ever tried their creations or thought forward about real life situations and applications ? Or after Jobs there is no one who can do it and see how laptop should function? If they so wish their touchbars, why not to put them _above_ function keys ?! Make option to turn them off completely if required so they would not disturb at night or stand on the way. They never heard of people with muscle memory? It is that hard? Goodness, it’s so obvious. I can go on and on ... I feel I was robbed really with this 2015 model, I wish I could use those money for something more useful ...
underseacables 6y ago
I want the features of the 2012 MacBook Pro in the body of the latest model. Bring it all back and keep the slimmed down less useful model for ppl who don’t need functionality.
ricg 6y ago
Anyone still remember Apple Remote? It used to come free with your MacBook and is to this day one of my favorite features of my mid 2012 MBP that I will miss terribly once I have to upgrade (no Big Sur support...).
- uncledave 6y ago
  Yeah had one with my first gen intel iMac. Great idea that was. The whole machine got used as an audio source regularly.
- conesus 6y ago
  I built the Turn Touch remote[1] to basically bring back the old Apple Remote features. Music and video control for your laptop. [1]: turntouch.com
- vinay427 6y ago
  I almost never ended up using that remote, quite honestly. I got a lot more use out of the remote/stylus that my smartphone came with which I could use to play/pause media, take pictures from a distance, and obviously write or draw.
- matwood 6y ago
  Yep, it was great. I used it regularly to give presentations, and many people were curious about the remote (where it came from, was it included, etc...).
trestenhortz 6y ago
RAM is the feature I care about and Apple has always been stingy with RAM.
bitwize 6y ago
My guess is that the leads in the new MagSafe correspond to USB-C power rails, and if you plugged in a charger into the machine's USB-C port, it would charge just the same. I mean, if I were Apple, I wouldn't settle for anything less. Dongles are expensive and cumbersome. If Apple is adding back legacy ports, good on them.
Mistri 6y ago
I'm excited about everything mentioned in the rumors, except for the "flat edge design similar to the iPhone 12". One of my favorite parts of the MacBook design is how easy it is to pick up off of a flat surface with one hand. The tapers help me slide my fingers underneath the computer to hold on. I feel like if there is a flat edge, it'll be hard to grip on the side unless you're using 2 hands.
- uncledave 6y ago
  What is like is one robust enough to pick up by the top of the screen like the thinkpads. Also my Dell XPS is so bad if you pick it up by the corner of the unit it flexes enough for the touchpad to trigger clicks. Ugh.
- scyzoryk_xyz 6y ago
  Fair point. I do think that they have a team in place to make these decisions and the experience you’re describing was thoroughly tested and designed already. One thing they’re frequently berated for is an emphasis on visual aesthetics. But I think that’s a misunderstanding - they design for function, and the aesthetic pleasure comes from that function. I suspect they will find a way to make these match the visual look that these leaks suggest, without abandoning what you’re talking about. Probably with some tapered edge shape or something like that.
  - keepingscore 6y ago
    Was this team on holiday when they designed the mouse to have it's charging port on the bottom?
    - bnj 6y ago
      I have to wonder if that design came about because Apple didn’t want people to leave the mouse plugged in all the time. It’s the kind of reasoned institutional blunder that I feel like I encounter in my work life fairly often out of momentum and groupthink.
S_A_P 6y ago
I’m happy to give up thinness for SD card and HDMI. I use my MBP with a bunch of hardware samplers old and new which use SD for sample import and storage. I never use the Touch Bar and miss F keys dearly(development duties). The next MacBook that reverts back to the above is an instabuy.
hatchnyc 6y ago
I use two MacBooks for programming for several hours each every single day, my personal machine has a touchbar, my work machine does not. I realize this is blasphemous to say and I did think I would hate the touchbar for all the reasons, but I actually ended up liking it. I had imagined myself tapping virtual function buttons and the whole thing seemed silly and useless and worse than having physical keys, but VS Code and other dev tools actually have good integration, and when I open an app like Adobe Illustrator which I don't use frequently enough to memorize all the hotkeys it's quite handy to have the commands listed.
- jessriedel 6y ago
  Yea, what I really want is physical keys that travel but also have OLED screens built in on the top. Expensive, but best of both worlds.
  - escapecharacter 6y ago
    I hope this is Apple's eventual goal; "expensive and best of both worlds" sounds exactly like something Apple would do.
    - jessriedel 6y ago
      Me too, but I'm not holding my breath. The idea has been out there for a long time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard
      - manicpolymath 6y ago
        The Optimus Maximus keyboard showed why OLED was a bad choice for the keyboard. Chyrosran22 did a review of a used one that had severe burn in on all the keys. It would be interesting if someone could make a screen key cap that was compatible with Cherry MX or Alps switches. The problem is with communication and power delivery, though. Could NFC power a tiny E-Ink display? https://youtu.be/qj7GYU-wedo https://youtu.be/qj7GYU-wedo
rbanffy 6y ago
Honestly, the thing that I like the most about this is the wonderful IBM 3278 terminal in the background. Those things were the best terminals I ever used (even though they couldn't scroll) and had the very best (although the loudest) keyboards ever built. Which reminded me I released a new version of my 3270 font yesterday, so it's doubly fortunate.
usremane 6y ago
I still use my 2015 MacBook Pro. Built in hdmi port, card reader, USB ports, MagSafe charging.
- osipov 6y ago
  same here. they are just super hard to get (even refurbished) and are still expensive.
blumomo 6y ago
After years of fighting with the broken butterfly keyboard, the missing ESC key (Vim!) and Apple’s recent ambitions in censorship, I finally made the move, after 15 years with Macbooks, to switch to a free and more transparent platform, as in “a system that respects the user’s freedom”. Yes, moving to System76 and their Pop! OS will come with efforts of re-abituation but I appreciate the freedom that comes with it.
tailspin2019 6y ago
All of these opinions (from this comment thread) perfectly sum up my view of the Touch Bar. It's one of the reasons, aside from performance, that I believe that the M1 MacBook Air is currently the best laptop that Apple make. > I am all for removing the TouchBar. The new MacBook Air with TouchID + physical function keys is a perfect combination of features. There are a few things about the TouchBar I do like -- eg, having a custom one-touch screen lock button that's always present. However vast majority of the time I use external keyboard+trackpad+monitor, so the touchbar can't be part of my usual workflow anyway. (BluSyn) > while I believed in the initial promise of the touchbar (especially for specialty apps like DAWs, NLEs, etc), I welcome its removal now, and I think most do. (coldtea) > I also can't wait for the removal of the Touchbar. This prevented me from buying previous Macbooks because it was just one compromise too far for such an expensive machine. (pharmakom) > I like the touch bar but unless they find a way to make it feasible on a Bluetooth magic keyboard, I’d rather have no touch bar for consistency. If they are going to kill it they should have killed it with the first M1 MacBooks. (johnwalkr) > The problem with the TouchBar is that it disrupt the flow of attention towards the keys. The cool thing about having just ONE screen is that you can forget about looking your fingers because the content is fixed (not dynamic) and therefore can be internalized. The TB doesn't solve any problem (ofou) > the Touchbar should have been a new UI paradigm at the bottom of a touchscreen. I'd also dig a Touchbar accessory for my keyboard tray. Just saying. But for the love of god, keep it off my F-key row. (acjohnson55) > No Touchbar. I love the idea, but it should be in addition to the Fn keys, on top of it, or in some other way. (maz1b) > If they so wish their touchbars, why not to put them _above_ function keys ?! Make option to turn them off completely if required so they would not disturb at night or stand on the way. They never heard of people with muscle memory? (lovelyviking)
vemv 6y ago
Honestly I've never understood why laptops are so strongly associated with developer culture. They are inefficient and conflated machines - two things that tend to be contradictory with software engineering. More practically, many people find themselves completely dependent on Apple's design whims. Mac Pros (or server racks in general) are closer to the kinds of machines that we deploy to (they use Xeons for one thing). They don't overheat so easily. Their 'sea of cores' approach enables more productive workflows and tooling. And one gets to use his favorite peripherals, in an ergonomic position (instead of slouching around a laptop).
- joaomoreno 6y ago
  After having built a Ryzen Mini ITX setup about a month ago, I have to totally agree. Soooo smooth.
- arusahni 6y ago
  I feel like the migration to open floor plans and offices where you need to take your knowledge base everywhere (e.g., conference rooms) has lead to laptops being the default loadout for many companies.
- fastball 6y ago
  One of the best things about being a software developer in 2021 is that I can do it from almost anywhere. I'm not lugging my Mac Pro to a cafe. I'm certainly not taking it on a trip.
- willio58 6y ago
  For my development needs and work style I much prefer a laptop that I can dock at any workstation or just work off the laptop. I recently worked off my laptop while in a car on a road trip. I just wouldn’t have that capability otherwise.
  - daxfohl 6y ago
    I just recently ditched my workstation for a dock and like it a lot better. I kind of miss having the dedicated computer in the home-office, rather than always having to transport my laptop from wherever it is. But I definitely like having a single machine to configure and everything being consistent.
bitL 6y ago
Can't wait to see all the articles praising Apple for innovation next... We might even see a skeuomorphic UI again!
someonehere 6y ago
Of course Ive pushed the design this way. He also designed the Apple Watch to be a design centric device and didn’t want it to be about health. I wonder if any of these design choices are what led to him leaving. I’m almost confident a consensus was around one of these major changes he bet on and leadership heard all the nasty feedback across the web. Maybe Ive took it personally and just decided his time was over.
- fastball 6y ago
  Ive was terrible for Apple as soon as Jobs was no longer there to curb his worst impulses. He's a great designer, but he's the kinda guy you want designing your concept cars, not your production vehicles.
phatty 6y ago
I hope...(some day) we can get sdcard slots on iphones too?
someonehere 6y ago
I bought a Microsoft Surface laptop 13” for work to test builds with. That laptop has a headphone port, USB-A, USB-C and a proprietary Microsoft port the power adapter plugs into. Don’t have that adapter handy while traveling? You can still charge it via the USB-C port with another charger. I can see Apple copying another facet of Microsoft’s Surface line. The other being the Magic Keyboard for the iPad Pro.
- fastball 6y ago
  That sounds like a terrible idea. Why have a proprietary charge port if it can also charge with USB-C?
  - Brozilean 6y ago
    Why would having multiple options be bad? It doesn't turn the usb c port into a useless port or anything?
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > Why would having multiple options be bad? Because this is how you end up with a Homer Car of a device.
      - waheoo 6y ago
        That's a bit myopic. You can strike a balance. You're argument is the same thing that led to "we should get rid of headphone jacks because we have Bluetooth." Bluetooth is an option, its not the best option, but I wouldn't suggest removing Bluetooth because we have a headphone jack.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        > You're argument is the same thing that led to "we should get rid of headphone jacks because we have Bluetooth." I mean... yeah it's the same argument and I agree with both. When we got Bluetooth and decent ear pods... time to get rid of the headphone jack we don't want both, one is redundant. Simpler, cleaner, more uniform is better for these devices in my opinion.
_qulr 6y ago
Bring back matte screens too. Glossy screens have been a disaster, not only ergonomically but also in terms of the never-ending "staingate" scandal of antireflective coating peeling off the screen.
- mozey 6y ago
  Miss the matte screen on my 2008 MPB
exabrial 6y ago
I'm excited about this! Lotta different ways that could go but I'm hoping it's Magsafe-over-usbc so their whole lineup can be protected! (Well they need to ditch lightning on iPhones, but yeah).
raldi 6y ago
I agree about the return of function keys and preservation of Touch ID, but that's hardly a prediction; it's what they're already doing as they roll out new machines. If you think Apple is returning the SD slot or adding a dongle to the power cord, you don't know Apple. But maybe they've found a way to magnetically connect USB-C while still maintaining compatibility and avoiding dongles.
markus_zhang 6y ago
I think it's a lot difficult for people NOT to change than to change. I do understand the reason: New employees seeking for ownership, teams need to grab for budget, etc. And I'd argue that keep changing is always better than NOT changing at all. The only thing is how to make more changes positive?
dwighttk 6y ago
>Schiller had squashed all hope of the SD card returning ... >Schiller said “probably not” but added that “nothing about the future is in stone and things can always change.” what?
rhacker 6y ago
Magsafe, was great unless you had a 5 year old laptop. After the 50th time you had a small magnetic rock get lodged into the plug and scrape the laptop's magsafe port enough, it stops being magnetic. I can't agree more on replacing the touch bar.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Xcelerate 6y ago
It's kind of funny, because the last laptop I purchased (and the one I am still using) was Apple's first retina MacBook Pro as soon as it was released in 2012. I've refused to upgrade since then because I felt that all of the newer MacBook's were inferior in some way. Now I'm finally thinking of upgrading again once the 16" is released, and it's sounding like the new laptop will look exactly like mine from 10 years ago. I'm not a fan of MagSafe though. It's always falling out whenever I slightly move my laptop around. And my thought with the touchbar is that they should replace it with physical keys, however, the keys should have tiny OLED displays beneath them. That way, if you want the function keys back, it will look at exactly like the rest of the keys on the keyboard, but if you want some other type of button, that's possible too.
- zymhan 6y ago
  IMO the last model of a generation is usually the best wrt Apple laptops. They usually have more efficient processors that run cooler, at the least.
- shrimpx 6y ago
  That 2012 laptop is amazing! I put an ssd in it and moved the original HDD into the CD slot for extra storage. Total powerhouse.
  - Synaesthesia 6y ago
    I have even installed Big Sur on mine and it runs fine. (Needs a patch though)
taf2 6y ago
An SD card is useful things other than just cameras it also is a great thing for 3d printers. Yes some printers have usb and maybe I should spend a day or figuring out ocotoprint but I usually just use my SD card and get on with printing. My lap has a MacBook Pro 2015. It’s both sturdy and has all the nice features plenty of usb-b ports and sd card slot... newer PCBs are finally shipping with usb c support but I don’t see things like the teensy having usb c anytime soon...
JIBitator 6y ago
oh man... if they remove the touch bar I will be so happy. I have a macbook pro 2015 and I was planning to replace it next year with the M1 16 inches. That would be the perfect timing. Generation 2015 powa!
paulryanrogers 6y ago
No mention of user swappable batteries or repairability. :(
projektfu 6y ago
I can't help but think this leak is bad for Apple's Mac business. It will be a while before these potentially superior Macs will be available, cannibalizing the sales of the existing line. I'm looking to replace my laptop soon and these potential features make me comfortable waiting and seeing. I hope that they would make it chargeable from either the Magsafe or the USB-C, like the Surface.
- Aperocky 6y ago
  I feel like Kuo has been subject to a honeypot. I don't think there's any reason to bring back old ports or magSafe. I can totally understand getting rid of the touch bar though - but I don't even expect that to actually happen. Given how long the god awful butterfly keyboard persisted, I don't expect these less awful feature (and some, like USB-C, is positive) to go.
- cududa 6y ago
  Yes, that’s generally why companies don’t like leaks around new product announcements..
- theonemind 6y ago
  For all we know, this sort of thing might get leaked intentionally as a middle ground between between annoucing it and keeping it a secret. The most interested and active users will know about leaked information, and they can put off buying decisions and have greater long term satisfaction. If you bought a machine and 2 months later, exactly what you wanted two months ago comes out, you probably won't enjoy that experience very much. However, less discriminating users probably both won't know about the leak, and won't find certain things coming out quite as disappointing. I think it probably works out decently for Apple even if they really don't want the leaks, much the way piracy probably helped Microsoft Windows by helping make it a complete de-factor standard (though Microsoft seemed aware of that and seemed not to crack down as hard as they might for that reason.)
mindvirus 6y ago
Touch Bar is interesting - it's really nifty, but I feel like touch typists hate it, and non touch typists love it. My personal totally long shot wish is that Apple would switch to an ortholinear keyboard (because everyone else will do it too then).
- Aperocky 6y ago
  They should really just sell both version, I bought the new mac air precisely because it doesn't have a touch bar.
- theonemind 6y ago
  If you never have to look at the keyboard for anything ever, the touchbar takes away an useful row of keys and forces you to start looking down at the keyboard. I can't overstate how annoying someone who never has to look at the keyboard might find this. https://robservatory.com/the-fundamental-problem-with-the-touch-bar/ https://robservatory.com/the-fundamental-problem-with-the-to... "The Touch Bar, despite its name, is actually an Eye Bar: It forces your eyes off the screen, down to the Touch Bar, back up to the screen, repeat ad infinitum. There's nothing physical about interacting with the Touch Bar, aside from using your finger: There are no defined button areas, and there's no haptic feedback when you tap something. So you absolutely must look at the Touch Bar to interact with it. When the new MacBooks were released, I spent about 30 minutes testing a Touch Bar-equipped version in an Apple Store, and this constant moving of my eyes' focus from keyboard to screen to keyboard to screen to…well, you get the idea…was incredibly disruptive. To use the Touch Bar, I'd have to change my focus to the keyboard, then refocus on the screen, taking time to find my active window and locate the mouse cursor. This did not make for a pleasant user experience."
acd 6y ago
I think Apple needs to rethink and design products that are built for serviceability. That means the end user should be able to service most parts of the laptop themselves. No plastic prying tools should ever be needed to service a laptop. Battery -> User replaceable under a hatch. SSD -> User replaceable RAM -> User replaceable Screen -> User replaceable Motherboard -> User replaceable Keyboard -> User replaceable. Wifi Network card -> User replaceable. And with that I mean you design to make the product easy to repair. Using standard Philips or torx screws whenever possible. Current Apple products means using a lots of dongles for what should be built in. Make repair videos on how to mend broken parts, put those on video sharing platforms like Youtube. We are having global warming, that needs that all products needs to be easy to repair so that we have less waste on the planet.
- mcot2 6y ago
  Isn’t the RAM basically integrated onto the SoC now?
  - TacticalTable 6y ago
    With the M1 as-is, yes. However, it's entirely possible that future M1X or the like will keep RAM separate.
- usaphp 6y ago
  > Current Apple products means using a lots of dongles for what should be built in. Who decides what should be built in? Some people might need SD card reader, others will need HDMI out, lan port is requested by others, I on the other hand don’t use any of that and would rather have my laptop to be lighter and thinner.
- eknkc 6y ago
  I don’t think most if these are possible with the recent form factors. I mean battery hatch / battery case itself would be a huge volume loss in the chasis. People talk about repairability etc but at the end, most will demand the sexy and thin laptops.
jasonhansel 6y ago
Lenovo tried the touch bar approach with the X1 Carbon. But it didn't work out, users complained, and the next generation of the X1 removed it again. I wonder how many laptop manufacturers will try this again, only to need to revert it...
strogonoff 6y ago
All the recent buzz about Apple’s supposed MBP updates traces back to a single source, which also has promised Apple AR glasses in 2020 (I bet this is why Bloomberg didn’t feel comfortable putting the name on the rumour). The idea of additional I/O ports seems questionable, given performance of Thunderbolt 2 and USB 4.0 in latest devices. (Support for SD cards, which has the author so excited, seems especially dubious to me. Sure, there are professionals using SD cards, but just as well there are professionals using CF cards or microSD cards; it’d seem quite un-Apple to try to satisfy everyone.) Then there’s the obvious stuff (microLED).
nt2h9uh238h 6y ago
Touch bar is great, but should be an ADD-ON above the function keys, not replacing them.
nt2h9uh238h 6y ago
MacBook Pro wish 2021: rounded-edges end-to-end screen, that's the future, like the iPhone and iPad have.
beyondcompute 6y ago
Yes to the physical keys instead of touch bar!
yarcob 6y ago
The nice thing about my 2015 Macbook Pro is that it's useful without any accessories. I can just throw it in a bag and walk out the door. It's got enough battery life that I usually don't need to bring a charger. It has all the ports that I ever need. I can hook it up to a projector with the built in HDMI port, I can put in the SD card from my camera, or I can quickly copy files from someones thumb drive. I don't need to think about bringing the right kind of cables for what I'm planning to do. Sure, the new Macs are a lot faster, but every Mac released after 2015 would be a downgrade for me.
- oneplane 6y ago
  I have the 2015, 2017 and a 2020 and they are pretty much all the same that way. None need a power source for normal workdays, I don't have a camera that needs to have memory cards swapped out, and all presenter displays are either ClickShare or AppleTV and thus wireless. I don't accept random mass storage devices, and for those few times that I do want one I use a multiport adapter which works with both the 2015 and all the newer ones (USB-C and USB-A connectors), which I also use for when WiFi is down and you need Ethernet. It's not much bigger than any Ethernet adapter anyway.
- spijdar 6y ago
  It's great that the built in ports cover all your needs, but my experience with laptops has been more complicated. You use a projector as an example of a use for your HDMI port. In my limited experience doing presentations, I've run across a mixture of HDMI, VGA, and even DisplayPort for some reason. Once, even though I was using a Dell Precision with built in HDMI and VGA, I ended up using a usb-c dongle with combo HDMI+VGA+DP ports I keep in my bag. My coworker had to wait for someone to get a more specific passive converter for their laptop which didn't have usb-c. Obviously YMMV, but I've found the combo of usb-c plus a compact multi port adapter to be indispensable, even on a laptop with a crap-ton of ports.
- shrimpx 6y ago
  My take is Jony Ive went extreme on form factor and totally lost his grip on users. He wanted an objectively perfect, extremely thin portless wireless machine. Now that he’s gone the design team is descending from the Ivery tower and undoing his work, meeting users halfway again.
chaostheory 6y ago
I want my glowing Apple logo back. The only thing good about the Touch Bar is fingerprint ID, but I can do without it
egypturnash 6y ago
I never needed an SD card until suddenly I needed one. And then there I was with one permanantly lodged in my old Air's SD port, with my music collection on it, because I needed more room on the HD. I have been enjoying being able to dock my current Pro to the desk setup with one cable that carries power/video/audio/USB but I keep on eyeing my slowly-filling hard drive and worrying about what I'll do when I need more space. I hate carrying external drives around. A "magsafe USBc" connector would be super awesome, IMHO.
- evan_ 6y ago
  There are a bunch of magnetic usb c adapters on Amazon for not very much money, I can’t speak to quality
rootusrootus 6y ago
Unrealistic though it may be, I'd rather they just stuffed a half dozen USB-C connectors on either side instead, and the world could stop making custom connectors for every different device.
harel 6y ago
Apple hardware is really top notch. I am a Linux person but if I squint hard enough I can use the Mac OS (with some swearing weaved in). But I cannot use that terrible keyboard. Why do I need key combos for page up/down? Why are they useless buttons like that top squiggle on the top left but no page up/down buttons (there is space for them). Why some things are Cmd+ and some are Ctrl+? Why no key travel?
- unethical_ban 6y ago
  I enjoy typing on the macbook more than my Lenovo now. I've just gotten used to it, I suppose. The key combos take some learning - protip: Few things are "ctrl+" unless it is Firefox or terminal, in my experience. I do agree in missing the nav buttons.
- helmholtz 6y ago
  I have the newest XPS. It's a 15" laptop, it's huge. And yet, they've gone and put Home and End under F11 and F12. Meanwhile, Printscreen is under F10, which no one needs, and NOTHING is under F9. Also, F5 is covered with the brightness key! I can either refresh or have brightness, while F9, which is used nowhere, is blank. There used to be such a nice last column along the rightmost edge of the keyboard with Home, Page Up, Page Down and End. Bring them back! It's stupid design to have. The other thing, which I take is the same for the macbook, is that the trackpad is so huge that the edge of the keyboard digs into the forearms, causing pain for any reasonable length of use.
  - harel 6y ago
    I've been using Thinkpads for a long time, currently on my second X1. That keyboard is bliss compared to the mac. And I have page up, down, home, end... I feel spoiled for navigation (not to mention actual Function keys).
- shrimpx 6y ago
  Btw that squiggle button — I assume you mean ~ — is completely instrumental to programming and using a shell. It’s also the switcher key between windows of the same app (cmd-~ as opposed to cmd-tab).
anonymousab 6y ago
I would like to pay more for a usb-c magsafe connector. Even 5x the cost of the current cheap cables would be worth it if it 1) actually worked 2) was standards compliant in all the ways that mattered. USB-C is a dice roll right now and the magnetic ones even moreso.
jxdxbx 6y ago
The only ports I want to see on a modern laptop is just a bunch of fully capable USB C ports. An SD card slot would be fine, and if there's something like MagSafe, I'd want USB C charging to still be possible so I can just travel with a single kind of charger and cable. Lots of random USB-charging gadgets have switched to USB C. I like the idea of making USB A, one of the worst port designs of all time, die a slow painful death. I am very happy with my thumb drive-shaped portable card read that has USB C on one side and A on the other.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  Let me introduce you to the db25 parallel port. How about the PS/2, which took about thirty seconds to align correctly.
dang 6y ago
Related from 2 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25788129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25788129
empressplay 6y ago
Apple should bring back the 2015 MBP but with Apple Silicon and a USB-C port and call it the MBP Classic!
- bch 6y ago
  MBP SE
  - behnamoh 6y ago
    For $399 I would buy it!
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  MBP SE/30
aledalgrande 6y ago
Very excited. I got an Intel MBP in 2020, but these models have enough that I am willing to switch. The question is who will buy my maxed out Intel laptop when the M1 is faster and costs less? XD Also wondering if this new version will have M1X or M2, just a M1 that supports more RAM or an M2 with updated architecture?
qwerty456127 6y ago
So cool. I probably am going to buy a MacBook if they bring everything back. Definitely buying something else if they don't. MacBooks look interesting but I'd rather buy something with an SD slot, physical F-keys, analog audio jack and at least 1 classic USB port to accompany Thunderbolt 4 Type-C ports.
- virtue3 6y ago
  I dont think there's a particular reason to have USB-A when you can just use a usb-c-to-a adapter. Sure, you have to carry a dongle around but USB-C is just so much better in all aspects ( reliability, usage, speed, unidirectional). Plus it would keep the machine smaller (the physical height is an issue with the cases).
  - qwerty456127 6y ago
    I know USB-C is better, but I also know the overwhelming majority of thumb drives (as well as other peripherals) around are USB-A. Doesn't being free from having to carry an extra dongle around feel good? I don't insist it (a USB-A port) should be there but I would be pleased to have one. Its lack would mean I would have to always carry a dongle with me. Why not build it in if you always carry it with you anyway? > Plus it would keep the machine smaller (the physical height is an issue with the cases). Some extra millimetres are exactly the thing I absolutely couldn't care less about. Completely irrelevant. Definitely not willing to sacrifice, let alone pay anything for this.
    - virtue3 6y ago
      I honestly view smaller as lighter, and that I do -really- care about. I travel a lot, so having something ultra portable was my favorite part of the MBP 13". I even had a smaller and lighter 45W usbC charger I could use for it. I really really really enjoyed that. and I just kept a dongle in my travel kit with my charger and other cables, nbd :) (but yeah everyone is different, I'd probably just invest in USB-c thumb drives, or the ones that have ports on both end for C and A).
mixmastamyk 6y ago
Typing on our 2013 Mac Pro is downright luxurious and I wouldn’t trade it for any super thin anything. Would also pay thousands for an M2 motherboard upgrade. :D
- faichai 6y ago
  Was thinking the same thing, given thermal envelope improvements made possible by M1/M1X/M2 would be so cool to be able to upgrade my perfectly viable MacBook Pro 2015 with a new logic board. Upgrade cycles are so wasteful.
beyondcompute 6y ago
> …universally hated butterfly keyboards. Not true. I would choose butterfly over a wobbly one (e.g. 2019 Macbook Pro). > Nobody wants a dongle. Not true. I do agree that an SD card slot is convenient to have. But I have no significant problems using an adaptor. USB-A feels like a thing from the past to me. So I am not sure I would want it on the laptop. The HDMI is the only thing I would not mind to retain (because of overscan issues, etc.)
gumby 6y ago
Author seems to hang a lot of faith on rumor. Maybe some of those rumored things will happen, but it's pretty unlikely that all of them will happen. (I'd be OK if the touchbar vanished though!) Apple just announced a magnetic feature for their phones called "MagSafe". What's the chance that the revived MacBook feature called "MagSafe" won't be something phone related? A charging region on the notebook seems hard to believe but stranger things have shipped. The author is also quite dismissive of the 12" MacBook which for me was a breakthrough product. I traveled around the world with one in my bag, wrote a ton of code, and often had to check to see if it was in my bag, it was so light. I'd still be using it except it turned out one day not to be rainstorm-proof :-(. As for the SD slot: I asked Jobs about this in the early 2000s (this was around when PCMCIA was phasing out) and he was dismissive for the same reason: "Oh, you have an SD card? Do you also use CF? And Memory Stick?" This was painful because indeed, I used all three. The fact is the TB3 (USB4) ports are powerful enough that they can connect to almost anything a user has. I know everybody's milage varies, but for me that's more powerful than a dedicated port I only use occasionally (as FW400 was for me) or never (FW800 in my experience).

358 points by metahost 6y ago

Apple's previous MacBook plan was stupid stupid. I just can't bring myself to view 'several different ports' as a stroke of genius.

uniqueid 6y ago
To save someone the time: 'it can't be stupid if it sold <x million> units'
- riffraff 6y ago
  It can still stupid be if a different obvious one could have sold more or made more profit. For example, almost everyone thought the butterfly keys were a terrible idea. They sold a ton of devices with that, but then they switched back anyway.
  - uniqueid 6y ago
    I agree. Besides, there are many stupid decisions that sell better than smart ones, short term.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  It sold well because the competition is still worse. It doesn't mean you should intentionally make it worse just because you can get away with it (there's an argument that making it worse to lower cost thus earning more profit, but I doubt the added complexity of USB-C made the new design any cheaper).

acjohnson55 6y ago

I've said this in probably a dozen HN comments over the years, but my 2010 MBP is still my favorite computer of all time. It has a matte screen and 4TB of upgradable onboard storage. It was frustrating watching MBPs move progressively farther away from the features I really loved on that machine. Eventually, I jumped ship for the PC world again, where I found the hardware much more inspired. The Airs are already quite powerful machines. Let them carry forward the legacy of the direction of the past several years, and make a truly differentiated offering for folks who do most of their work docked. Also, a hill I will die on is that the Touchbar should have been a new UI paradigm at the bottom of a touchscreen. I'd also dig a Touchbar accessory for my keyboard tray. Just saying. But for the love of god, keep it off my F-key row.

kradeelav 6y ago
Cosigned, and writing this comment on my own faithful 2010 MBP. Still works like a charm, even if some sites don't load due to legacy browsers. Having the correct USB plug-ins for my old-but-durable wacom tablet and an internal CD drive is still critical for my usage and I can't believe some of those parts were the first to go in the madness. Currently tempted to switch to the M1, but still worried about loosing the parts mentioned.
- blue1 6y ago
  Seconded. But why legacy browsers? My mid-2010 MBP, still going strong, runs High Sierra, which supports all current browsers.
  - beckler 6y ago
    I have a early 2011 MBP on High Sierra. I recently reported a bug to Mozilla that I was experiencing in Firefox. They couldn't reproduce it, but it was essentially the integrated graphics are so old in this machine that their new render engine was causing major glitching issues. The solution was to hard code the use of the previous engine for older laptops. This, among a number of other issues made me decide to recently upgrade... but hearing about these old-but-new features makes me want to cancel my order and wait it out a bit longer.
dijksterhuis 6y ago
> my 2010 MBP is still my favorite computer of all time Seconded. Mine has dents all over the body, battery has been replaced a few times, upped the memory and replaced the optical drive with 1TB storage. It's performed surprisingly well for over 10 years. Once had to visit the "geniuses" to replace the logic board after a few years, but that's it really. Its worked in pubs behind the bar, as a live mixer for audio gigs, as a development machine, as a university note making machine... Although now I've got what seems to be a hardware fault with the display where black pixels turn bright green. That and the fact the speakers and microphone are shot to pieces means I'll have to move on soon. End of an era for me. I will miss this machine dearly. -- On jumping ship: if I can work out a way to get iTunes + Apple Music running reliably on Linux I'll be jumping over there asafp. Not liking the software direction (news/rumours?) Apple has taken recently.

georgebarnett 6y ago

Weird. My 2016 12” MacBook is still almost my favourite machine. I say almost because the M1’s speed is _incredible_, but I do miss the smaller size and flatter keyboard.

Pfhreak 6y ago

I am really happy that my macbook uses usb c. I'm sad to hear that it is going away. Today, my Mac interoperates with all my other devices, I can keep one charger running to the edge of the couch. It's not the end of the world to flip back to the magsafe, but it's definitely not ideal for me (and I suspect others.)

linux2647 6y ago
Who’s to say you couldn’t have both? HN cynics aside, given that Apple is invested in USB-C/Thunderbolt, I would imagine that you could charge with either MagSafe or USB-C
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  This would be great.
lambdasquirrel 6y ago
There's some rumors that it'll have Magsafe and USB-C.
emptyparadise 6y ago
I like the premise of a single universal port but over the years it turned out to be kind of bullshit because there is no single "USB Type C" - there's 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, USB4, Thunderbolt and god knows what else. There are all sorts of weird incompatible peripherals and even cables that at best will not work and at worst will fry your device. I like USB-C (whatever variety it is that allows for docks with display connectivity) as a docking port, but it failed to solve the connectivity problem otherwise - it's the same mess of weird ports underneath, but now without the ability to quickly guess with a good degree of confidence if a device will work with your computer or not based on the port shape. I think I'd much rather have both USB-C and standard USB-A/HDMI/SD card ports.
- 6y ago

cpgonzalez 6y ago

The article's criticism of the 12-inch MacBook are preposterous. The 2 lb Macbook is the best laptop I've ever owned, by far. Maybe I'm too sensitive about weight, but I feel an incredible difference between 3 lb and 2 lb laptops, especially if its sitting on your lap for extended periods of time. The keyboard and charger have never once been a hindrance to my workflow, as the article makes it out be. I really wish Apple would come out with 2 lb laptops again. Latest line of Macbooks (the "Air") weigh in at 2.8 lb minimum.

jeppesen-io 6y ago
I can't upvote this enough. Everytime I pull out the MacBook 12 I just feel joy using it
asiachick 6y ago
I agree I wish Apple would find a way to make a 16inch MBP weight 3lbs and an Air weigh 2lbs. It *seems* possible given an 12.9 inch iPad Pro only weighs 1.4lbs and other manufacturers have entries in that range. For whatever reason this idea always gets downvoted but I believe it will happen someday and every who downvoted will suddenly "get it".
- MrRiddle 6y ago
  I assume they could do it, but by reducing battery life to what it was before. However, if you can’t bare a laptop heavier than 2lbs may I suggest you’re in the wrong line of work.
- deergomoo 6y ago
  > I wish Apple would find a way to make a 16inch MBP weight 3lbs This could be reasonably possible with Apple silicon—well, maybe not 3lbs, but noticeably lighter than the current model. Part of the reason the 16” is so heavy is the 100Whr battery (which still manages to be woefully inadequate due to how much power the CPU sucks, let alone the GPU). The 13” ASi Pro has a 58Whr battery for “up to 17 hours” use, which seems to pan out to about 12-14 hours real-world usage. They could put that exact battery in an ASi 16” and it would still be leagues better than the “up to 11 hours” battery in the current model, which in my experience is actually 3-5 hours.

emptyparadise 6y ago

Sounds too good to be true.

lilyball 6y ago

I’m really hoping this rumor is false. I want the 13” M1 MBP scaled up to 16”. I don’t want an SD card, F keys, MagSafe, or any of the rest of that.

sitkack 6y ago
I want the M1 MBA scaled to 16", I do want SD card, F keys, and MagSafe.

BluSyn 6y ago

My controversial hot take-- I have never needed an SD card, and have gone all-in on USB-C. I will be very disappointed if they add back in USB-A/HDMI/SD ports, or remove USB-C charging in favor of proprietary charge port. Sounds like unnecessary feature bloat. Please just do MagSage + USB-C, so I can maintain my one-cable-for-everything, making traveling lighter and simpler. Here's my counter argument to all those that love MagSafe: makes traveling a huge hassle, forcing me to carry a special charge brick that only works for ONE device. In 2021 going forward, I will flat refuse to spend money on anything that doesn't use USB-C or Qi charging. I can now travel with a single 2xUSB-C power brick, and charge all devices from the same cable. This is a huge step forward, please don't reverse this. I am all for removing the TouchBar. The new MacBook Air with TouchID + physical function keys is a perfect combination of features. There are a few things about the TouchBar I do like -- eg, having a custom one-touch screen lock button that's always present. However vast majority of the time I use external keyboard+trackpad+monitor, so the touchbar can't be part of my usual workflow anyway. Removing this reduces cost and complexity. Please. Just keep it simple.

riffraff 6y ago
They could put the magnet as an end of a usb cable. You would still use the same brick, and just plug a different cable if you want to charge a different device. Seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.
- rozab 6y ago
  That would just defeat the point of having USB-C charging. Only the one proprietary cable would stay in the port.
Brajeshwar 6y ago
May I suggest a little different look at the use of SD Card slot on your MacBook (Pro). About 5 years back, I had one of those SD Drive stick-in for MacBook Pro that stays there. There were few (Nifty Drive, MiniDrive, etc). The primary use I see are; 1. Have a clone backup of your primary drive. (Carbon Copy Cloner, SuperDuper, Time Machine). 2. Have an extra storage handy for a rather economical price without lugging around an extra drive.

lambdasquirrel 6y ago

On one hand, this seems like welcome news for many of us. Who doesn't miss MagSafe? A lot of the previous years was like someone at Apple read Calvino's Six Memos and took the notes on "lightness" a little bit too far. On the other hand, one wonders if we'll have to replace all the sleeves and bags that have been made with the previous dimensions in mind. Hopefully not. Even the new 16-inch MacBook Pro fits in sleeves and bags designed for the previous 15-inch.

eyelidlessness 6y ago
Not only does the 16” fit the 15” sleeves, it’s nearly identical in dimensions and weight to the 15” models everyone praises before the bad keyboards. It’s basically a 2015 MBP with a slightly smaller bezel.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  Apparently someone disagrees with this statement of facts about the measurable dimensions that are trivially verifiable.
dwaite 6y ago
> On one hand, this seems like welcome news for many of us. Who doesn't miss MagSafe? I don't miss MagSafe 2. The laptops had gotten light enough that the selling point (would come detached if someone snagged the cord) meant that the magnet had to be weakened. The cord constantly came undone. Bits attracted by the magnet would be lodged in the port sometimes, interfering with the charging in odd ways as well. I had a lot of Magsafe 1 chargers, which compounded the frustration. I had to use a little magnetic dongle. The cord was attached to the brick directly, so when it frayed (not if, when) you were out $100. Your brick was now a brick. It was a big charger I couldn't use to charge anything else I travelled with (phone, ipad, headphones, etc), _and_ there were zero third party accessories (battery packs, etc) that worked with it because it was proprietary/patent protected. If laptops have enough power to go 12+ hours on a single charge, the value of magsafe goes way down. I'm not operating the thing on a kitchen table with a cord draped down and across the room to the wall. I am charging it overnight. Not to mention, there's a huge benefit of sitting down at a desk and having a single USB-C/TB cable to plug in to get connected to everything, including power. If the choice was magsafe or USB-C charging, I'd pay extra for USB-C.

aetherspawn 6y ago

I'm sure someone smart will design a way for USB-C to plug into your MacBook without the risk of ripping out your I/O board if you trip over the cable. We don't need magsafe, we just need some sort of clever springy socket.

dwaite 6y ago
The USB standard is pretty specific about connectors; I doubt the resulting connector would be licensed to be called USB.

sitkack 6y ago

The keyboard! I have an M1 mac, I typing this from a 2012 macbook air. The new keyboards are utter crap! They are still crap. If I could have the M1 in an x220 shell, with the mac trackpad, I would be good.

genuine_smiles 6y ago
Have you tried the 2019 16” MacBook Pro keyboard?
- sitkack 6y ago
  Ok, I just switched back to the M1 from the 2012 MBA. Keyboard is just too shallow and key travel is just too short. It is improved over the butterfly but it still isn't as good as the 2012. The machine you mention is my work machine, but it has been docked and I haven't really broken in the keyboard. The previous work machine which I typed in probably 20k words a day was a butterfly keyboard mac. I hate that machine with a passion, I want to buy it back from my employer and bisect it with a plasma torch.
  - boudewijnrempt 6y ago
    I actually like the feel of my M1 pro keyboard better than my 1015 15" macbook pro's keyboard. But... That weird lcd strip constantly flickering in the periphery of my vision makes me want to throw the laptop out of the window. Good thing it isn't my main working machine, just a device to make fat binaries of Krita on.
- jspash 6y ago
  I'm typing this from a 2019 16" MBP keyboard. And I can say without a doubt that it is my favourite keyboard of probably 10 macs I've ever owned. There is a Macbook Air sitting nearby which I just tried for comparison. It's pretty good too. But the MBP 16" is just lovely. Quiet. Enough feedback. The only gripe is, and this might be true of all Mac backlit keyboards. Is that I can see light coming from under the keys when viewing it at a low angle such as when I've got my feet up and it's on my lap. Not just through the letters, but little slivers of light under each one.

rckoepke 6y ago

I'd love if it had an excellent webcam. I imagined the M1 would have a better webcam than the 2015 Retina MBP but instead the newest built-in webcams are significantly worse in quality. I'd imagine including a camera system from an iPhone would make a huge difference for Apple's users given the popularity of remote meetings these days.

dwaite 6y ago
Unfortunately the back lid is not thick enough for that - even the iPhone isn't thick enough for the iPhone camera system, hence the "bump". I actually wouldn't mind something closer to the iPad + magic keyboard design in a pro macbook, which would have the thickness needed for a significantly better camera.
- johnwalkr 6y ago
  Why not have a bump in the MacBook screen with a small penalty in trackpad size?
  - Toutouxc 6y ago
    Because it's ugly. It's just not an elegant Apple-ish solution.
  - least 6y ago
    I'd imagine because for the vast majority of people they'd appreciate the trackpad size more and the webcams are already serviceable.
- yoz-y 6y ago
  iPhone and iPad front facing cameras do not need a bump and they run circles around the crap in MacBooks though.

maz1b 6y ago

For what it's worth, I have a fully specced out out 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro with 64gb of RAM and the 5600m upgrade, and I can frankly say that these rumored MacBooks are actually exciting compared to what I have. What I feel strongly that Apple should do: - Allow for USB-C AND MagSafe charging (MagSafe 2 would be ideal but I won't be upset if it's something else) - Ensure that the 4 USB-C ports are all equally capable of bandwidth and don't suffer from any drawbacks in that regard. - Great thermals / fan noise and still handle demanding workflows - No Touchbar. I love the idea, but it should be in addition to the Fn keys, on top of it, or in some other way.

grishka 6y ago

The last paragraph mentioning touchscreens is weird. Please don't add a touchscreen to a device running a desktop OS. 99% of people won't be using it anyway, but it would lead to those atrocious spacious phone-style UIs I despise so much.

speedgoose 6y ago
Give a MacBook to a child and she will likely try to touch the screen. Because at this point a touch interface is expected by people. Even me who is used to non touch screens user interfaces, I tend to touch the screen on a non touchscreen laptop once in a while. It's frustrating that it doesn't work, because it does work on my ThinkPad and I enjoy it. Apple not having a touchscreen option on their high end laptops is weird, since they did so well with the iPhone and the iPad. At least that would help developers to implement touch interfaces for iOs. Or not feel dated for the younger generations.
- grishka 6y ago
  IMO it's important to maintain a clear separation and not blur the line between desktops and tablets. Desktop UIs are dense, they're your tools to get your job done as efficiently as possible. You can position the mouse pointer quickly and with great precision, so there is no need for ample spacing between the controls. It's okay when a professional tool has some learning curve to it, but after you're past that, it's a joy to use. And no, desktop UI design shouldn't be informed by phones and tablets. When designing a desktop UI, you should pretend touchscreens were never invented. That being said, I do know one person who has a Windows laptop with a touchscreen and does occasionally tap or scroll something on it. Myself, as someone who has never owned one of these, I maintain this clear separation between mobile and desktop in my head and have never had the thought of touching my laptop screen except to clean it.
  - speedgoose 6y ago
    The current trend in user interfaces is not to design for desktop but for mobile first, because that's where the large majority of users are. Of course you have exceptions, when a company develops an application only for desktop for example or when a company can afford developing and maintaining many versions of one user interface. Already today it's very fine to use a laptop with a touchscreen on most websites. And actually most of desktop apps are also possible to use while not always super nice. The screens are quite large so it's not that bad to hit a specific area. I agree the mouse is a lot more precise when you are good with a mouse, but a mouse also needs more training than a touch screen to be used fast and accurately. It will always be a market for old fashioned desktop apps, maybe Apple is going for it, perhaps some GNU/Linux folks too, but I think the industry is not targeting devices without touch interfaces.

layoutIfNeeded 6y ago

Cool! On top of this if they would reintroduce the headphone jack on the iPhone, they would completely redeem themselves in my books.

underseacables 6y ago
Now that’s just crazy talk. Apple? Never. That is one mistake they will ever walk back on. It took a LOT of courage[0] to remove it. [0]. https://splinternews.com/profiles-in-courage-the-product-managers-who-removed-a-1793861730 https://splinternews.com/profiles-in-courage-the-product-man...
- c17r 6y ago
  I don’t care that they removed the analog in favor of digital, I'm annoyed that it’s just. One. Port. Give me two lightning ports so I can use headphones and charge without resorting to a dongle and I’ll go along with it. As it is I haven’t bought a new iPhone since my 6S plus.

wodenokoto 6y ago

I think everybody is forgetting that apple repurposed the name “MagSafe”. I think “MagSafe and new ports” translate to having a magnetic area where you can place a iPhone 12 MagSafe charger or charge your iPhone 12. What new keyboard translate to, I have no good guesses, but I do have a feeling that if you think it’ll be 2015 keyboard you’re in for a disappointment.

coldtea 6y ago
>I think everybody is forgetting that apple repurposed the name “MagSafe”. Well, they could trivially just multi-use it for all kinds of magnetic+safe ports, whether they are the round iPhone ones or the more traditional ones. >What new keyboard translate to, I have no good guesses, but I do have a feeling that if you think it’ll be 2015 keyboard you’re in for a disappointment. They have already fixed the 2016-2019 keyboard issue in 2019 models, so why would people be "in for a dissapointment"? It's not like they'll go back to the 2016-2019 era keyboard mechanisms...

zxcvbn4038 6y ago

This is a really exciting development! Everything I miss from the 2013 MacBook Pro - no final word on what ports are being added or if they are bringing back the SD slot, but MagSafe, a working keyboard, and an escape key are themselves welcome. The touch bar ended up being completely useless except for muting/unmuting zoom calls and smashing the left hand side seventeen times in a row until it finally registers as an escape key - I guess Apple devs don’t use vi. I was thrilled to have Touch ID at first but ultimately it only gets used in the control panel because apparently Apple doesn’t let anything else use it. I largely stopped using u2f keys because it was too much of a pain to dig up a usb-a dongle and I didn’t want to spend $50 on a usb-c form key that still doesn’t work on iOS.

awll 6y ago
If you are a vi user, you could consider using CTRL-[ instead of escape. I find this to be more comfortable and quicker to use anyways and you wouldn't need to use the touch bar anymore
- mozey 6y ago
  I like mapping jk (and kj) to escape. For lefties I imagine df (and fd) would be more convenient. Both sequences are unlikely to appear in any words. They're on the home keys, so least effort to move your hands. https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key

lovelyviking 6y ago

Since 2015 I cannot even choose Mac Book Pro that would just fit for work with all that idiocy with touch bars, malfunctioning keyboards, lack of SD card slot and idiotic dongles, instead of working horse that has everything you need and makes things simpler, not harder. But even MBP 2015 had gracefully died just recently having the best user care from me you can possibly imagine. This really encourages to move away from Macs. I do not wish to pay premium money for shitty equipment. This 2015 model have just fallen apart, starting with screws that by some unknown to me reason where unscrewing themselves and you cannot not tight them back because some idiot made them non standard to make sure you really cannot do it, not even with the knife. Then I discovered that screen has traces of buttons after closing the lid. Then I discovered those small traces are unremovable. Nice design. Then battery even with a proper care died anyway after third of a cycles it suppose to have. Then SD Card slot was reading only some of the cards, while cheap neighbour’s laptop had no problem reading all of them. Then I discovered that connecting MBP to external monitor gets it heated too much to the level that loud funs make it unusable. Then internal screen stopped working completely. Then after some time this shit failed to boot at all ( even with external display). I should also mention power cord ( with cheap plastic) that became yellow and was not always connecting , while it was carefully kept from banding too much. HDMI that in critical situation did not work, with the best cable you can get. Mac OS that was constantly confusing where the main screen is, forgetting the ‘mirror’ option at will and so on.... Overall the experience is horrible. I have other models from previous years and nothing like that had happened. And I am told MBP 15inch mid2015 is considered to be one of the best models from recent years, as after mid 2015 models are even worse, not mentioning lack connectivity that renders them useless for mobility I need. So looking at the way Mac is made these days finally I hear something sane as I am not at all convinced they would continue to sell ‘tons of Macs’ in the following years otherwise. I think only inertia saves them in such situation but for how long? In my case I cannot move from the platform now because naively I’ve decided to write a ‘proper File Manager’ for Mac. I am using what I wrote and I simply cannot live without it. I also cannot leave it unfinished as this would be a huge waste of effort. So I’ll have to finish it, and only then think of porting it to other platforms. Right now I do not know even what do. Buy another 2015 one ?which could fall apart just as this one did? Buy new model? But which new model? They do not even have a model I need and looking at the quality of the shit I was counting on ... well, I see really no good options. Those with Touch-bars are unacceptable, smaller screens then 15 inch too. I would actually wish 17 inch for work in case some one sane from apple is reading. I wish model that have _all_ possible connections including USB3 which are still around a lot so I would not have to think about those stupid issues and concentrate on my work. And I have a lot of work. This is the way and how it _should be_ with a ‘proper laptop’. Concentrate all _necessary_ ports_ on one left side at least pwr and video ports so I would not have dongkes or “Y” shape wires when you hold machine whike connected to external screen. Put only redundancy ports on the other side, and yes we need redundancy ports. Bring magsafe back, this was good as long as the cable is not cheap-made so it can band nicely if required. Having IRreceiver never hurts anyone especially those who have bought apple IR remote. I was using it when teaching tango for controlling music remotely so I do not have to run to the machine each time I wish to say something. It was so convenient, now for the same thing I had to make custom dongle with arduino. There is no need for huge trackpad, the previous size was good enough and calming because you do not worry about palm faulty touches. Half sized left/right keys where better then full sized, so you would not confuse them with alt-key. Why there is no ctrl on the right side? It inconsistent with left side and inconsistent with full-sized keyboards for muscle memory. And do not dare to remove it from big ones, please. Oh yes, and bring me back my line-in as separated socket! Big thanks to one ’smart genius’ who removed it in 2015 model, combining it with phones port. Also this ‘genius’ made sure to activate it _only_ automatically with Apple headphones to create as much troubles as possible to connect my guitar on the go. More then that, when you connect phones to listen what you are recording, and already agree to stupidity of recording sketch through the mic instead of a proper line-in you cannot choose what mic to use. Thus you cannot choose one built-in , so you end up recording with mic on the phones wire near your neck hitting your shirt or guitar as you play. ‘thank you very very very much’ for that. It has spoiled many good moods. I wander about those who design those Mac Book Pro’s ... did they ever tried their creations or thought forward about real life situations and applications ? Or after Jobs there is no one who can do it and see how laptop should function? If they so wish their touchbars, why not to put them _above_ function keys ?! Make option to turn them off completely if required so they would not disturb at night or stand on the way. They never heard of people with muscle memory? It is that hard? Goodness, it’s so obvious. I can go on and on ... I feel I was robbed really with this 2015 model, I wish I could use those money for something more useful ...

underseacables 6y ago

I want the features of the 2012 MacBook Pro in the body of the latest model. Bring it all back and keep the slimmed down less useful model for ppl who don’t need functionality.

ricg 6y ago

Anyone still remember Apple Remote? It used to come free with your MacBook and is to this day one of my favorite features of my mid 2012 MBP that I will miss terribly once I have to upgrade (no Big Sur support...).

uncledave 6y ago
Yeah had one with my first gen intel iMac. Great idea that was. The whole machine got used as an audio source regularly.
conesus 6y ago
I built the Turn Touch remote[1] to basically bring back the old Apple Remote features. Music and video control for your laptop. [1]: turntouch.com
vinay427 6y ago
I almost never ended up using that remote, quite honestly. I got a lot more use out of the remote/stylus that my smartphone came with which I could use to play/pause media, take pictures from a distance, and obviously write or draw.
matwood 6y ago
Yep, it was great. I used it regularly to give presentations, and many people were curious about the remote (where it came from, was it included, etc...).

trestenhortz 6y ago

RAM is the feature I care about and Apple has always been stingy with RAM.

bitwize 6y ago

My guess is that the leads in the new MagSafe correspond to USB-C power rails, and if you plugged in a charger into the machine's USB-C port, it would charge just the same. I mean, if I were Apple, I wouldn't settle for anything less. Dongles are expensive and cumbersome. If Apple is adding back legacy ports, good on them.

Mistri 6y ago

I'm excited about everything mentioned in the rumors, except for the "flat edge design similar to the iPhone 12". One of my favorite parts of the MacBook design is how easy it is to pick up off of a flat surface with one hand. The tapers help me slide my fingers underneath the computer to hold on. I feel like if there is a flat edge, it'll be hard to grip on the side unless you're using 2 hands.

uncledave 6y ago
What is like is one robust enough to pick up by the top of the screen like the thinkpads. Also my Dell XPS is so bad if you pick it up by the corner of the unit it flexes enough for the touchpad to trigger clicks. Ugh.
scyzoryk_xyz 6y ago
Fair point. I do think that they have a team in place to make these decisions and the experience you’re describing was thoroughly tested and designed already. One thing they’re frequently berated for is an emphasis on visual aesthetics. But I think that’s a misunderstanding - they design for function, and the aesthetic pleasure comes from that function. I suspect they will find a way to make these match the visual look that these leaks suggest, without abandoning what you’re talking about. Probably with some tapered edge shape or something like that.
- keepingscore 6y ago
  Was this team on holiday when they designed the mouse to have it's charging port on the bottom?
  - bnj 6y ago
    I have to wonder if that design came about because Apple didn’t want people to leave the mouse plugged in all the time. It’s the kind of reasoned institutional blunder that I feel like I encounter in my work life fairly often out of momentum and groupthink.

S_A_P 6y ago

I’m happy to give up thinness for SD card and HDMI. I use my MBP with a bunch of hardware samplers old and new which use SD for sample import and storage. I never use the Touch Bar and miss F keys dearly(development duties). The next MacBook that reverts back to the above is an instabuy.

hatchnyc 6y ago

I use two MacBooks for programming for several hours each every single day, my personal machine has a touchbar, my work machine does not. I realize this is blasphemous to say and I did think I would hate the touchbar for all the reasons, but I actually ended up liking it. I had imagined myself tapping virtual function buttons and the whole thing seemed silly and useless and worse than having physical keys, but VS Code and other dev tools actually have good integration, and when I open an app like Adobe Illustrator which I don't use frequently enough to memorize all the hotkeys it's quite handy to have the commands listed.

jessriedel 6y ago
Yea, what I really want is physical keys that travel but also have OLED screens built in on the top. Expensive, but best of both worlds.
- escapecharacter 6y ago
  I hope this is Apple's eventual goal; "expensive and best of both worlds" sounds exactly like something Apple would do.
  - jessriedel 6y ago
    Me too, but I'm not holding my breath. The idea has been out there for a long time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard
    - manicpolymath 6y ago
      The Optimus Maximus keyboard showed why OLED was a bad choice for the keyboard. Chyrosran22 did a review of a used one that had severe burn in on all the keys. It would be interesting if someone could make a screen key cap that was compatible with Cherry MX or Alps switches. The problem is with communication and power delivery, though. Could NFC power a tiny E-Ink display? https://youtu.be/qj7GYU-wedo https://youtu.be/qj7GYU-wedo

rbanffy 6y ago

Honestly, the thing that I like the most about this is the wonderful IBM 3278 terminal in the background. Those things were the best terminals I ever used (even though they couldn't scroll) and had the very best (although the loudest) keyboards ever built. Which reminded me I released a new version of my 3270 font yesterday, so it's doubly fortunate.

usremane 6y ago

I still use my 2015 MacBook Pro. Built in hdmi port, card reader, USB ports, MagSafe charging.

osipov 6y ago
same here. they are just super hard to get (even refurbished) and are still expensive.

blumomo 6y ago

After years of fighting with the broken butterfly keyboard, the missing ESC key (Vim!) and Apple’s recent ambitions in censorship, I finally made the move, after 15 years with Macbooks, to switch to a free and more transparent platform, as in “a system that respects the user’s freedom”. Yes, moving to System76 and their Pop! OS will come with efforts of re-abituation but I appreciate the freedom that comes with it.

tailspin2019 6y ago

All of these opinions (from this comment thread) perfectly sum up my view of the Touch Bar. It's one of the reasons, aside from performance, that I believe that the M1 MacBook Air is currently the best laptop that Apple make. > I am all for removing the TouchBar. The new MacBook Air with TouchID + physical function keys is a perfect combination of features. There are a few things about the TouchBar I do like -- eg, having a custom one-touch screen lock button that's always present. However vast majority of the time I use external keyboard+trackpad+monitor, so the touchbar can't be part of my usual workflow anyway. (BluSyn) > while I believed in the initial promise of the touchbar (especially for specialty apps like DAWs, NLEs, etc), I welcome its removal now, and I think most do. (coldtea) > I also can't wait for the removal of the Touchbar. This prevented me from buying previous Macbooks because it was just one compromise too far for such an expensive machine. (pharmakom) > I like the touch bar but unless they find a way to make it feasible on a Bluetooth magic keyboard, I’d rather have no touch bar for consistency. If they are going to kill it they should have killed it with the first M1 MacBooks. (johnwalkr) > The problem with the TouchBar is that it disrupt the flow of attention towards the keys. The cool thing about having just ONE screen is that you can forget about looking your fingers because the content is fixed (not dynamic) and therefore can be internalized. The TB doesn't solve any problem (ofou) > the Touchbar should have been a new UI paradigm at the bottom of a touchscreen. I'd also dig a Touchbar accessory for my keyboard tray. Just saying. But for the love of god, keep it off my F-key row. (acjohnson55) > No Touchbar. I love the idea, but it should be in addition to the Fn keys, on top of it, or in some other way. (maz1b) > If they so wish their touchbars, why not to put them _above_ function keys ?! Make option to turn them off completely if required so they would not disturb at night or stand on the way. They never heard of people with muscle memory? (lovelyviking)

vemv 6y ago

Honestly I've never understood why laptops are so strongly associated with developer culture. They are inefficient and conflated machines - two things that tend to be contradictory with software engineering. More practically, many people find themselves completely dependent on Apple's design whims. Mac Pros (or server racks in general) are closer to the kinds of machines that we deploy to (they use Xeons for one thing). They don't overheat so easily. Their 'sea of cores' approach enables more productive workflows and tooling. And one gets to use his favorite peripherals, in an ergonomic position (instead of slouching around a laptop).

joaomoreno 6y ago
After having built a Ryzen Mini ITX setup about a month ago, I have to totally agree. Soooo smooth.
arusahni 6y ago
I feel like the migration to open floor plans and offices where you need to take your knowledge base everywhere (e.g., conference rooms) has lead to laptops being the default loadout for many companies.
fastball 6y ago
One of the best things about being a software developer in 2021 is that I can do it from almost anywhere. I'm not lugging my Mac Pro to a cafe. I'm certainly not taking it on a trip.
willio58 6y ago
For my development needs and work style I much prefer a laptop that I can dock at any workstation or just work off the laptop. I recently worked off my laptop while in a car on a road trip. I just wouldn’t have that capability otherwise.
- daxfohl 6y ago
  I just recently ditched my workstation for a dock and like it a lot better. I kind of miss having the dedicated computer in the home-office, rather than always having to transport my laptop from wherever it is. But I definitely like having a single machine to configure and everything being consistent.

bitL 6y ago

Can't wait to see all the articles praising Apple for innovation next... We might even see a skeuomorphic UI again!

someonehere 6y ago

Of course Ive pushed the design this way. He also designed the Apple Watch to be a design centric device and didn’t want it to be about health. I wonder if any of these design choices are what led to him leaving. I’m almost confident a consensus was around one of these major changes he bet on and leadership heard all the nasty feedback across the web. Maybe Ive took it personally and just decided his time was over.

fastball 6y ago
Ive was terrible for Apple as soon as Jobs was no longer there to curb his worst impulses. He's a great designer, but he's the kinda guy you want designing your concept cars, not your production vehicles.

phatty 6y ago

I hope...(some day) we can get sdcard slots on iphones too?

someonehere 6y ago

I bought a Microsoft Surface laptop 13” for work to test builds with. That laptop has a headphone port, USB-A, USB-C and a proprietary Microsoft port the power adapter plugs into. Don’t have that adapter handy while traveling? You can still charge it via the USB-C port with another charger. I can see Apple copying another facet of Microsoft’s Surface line. The other being the Magic Keyboard for the iPad Pro.

fastball 6y ago
That sounds like a terrible idea. Why have a proprietary charge port if it can also charge with USB-C?
- Brozilean 6y ago
  Why would having multiple options be bad? It doesn't turn the usb c port into a useless port or anything?
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > Why would having multiple options be bad? Because this is how you end up with a Homer Car of a device.
    - waheoo 6y ago
      That's a bit myopic. You can strike a balance. You're argument is the same thing that led to "we should get rid of headphone jacks because we have Bluetooth." Bluetooth is an option, its not the best option, but I wouldn't suggest removing Bluetooth because we have a headphone jack.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        > You're argument is the same thing that led to "we should get rid of headphone jacks because we have Bluetooth." I mean... yeah it's the same argument and I agree with both. When we got Bluetooth and decent ear pods... time to get rid of the headphone jack we don't want both, one is redundant. Simpler, cleaner, more uniform is better for these devices in my opinion.

_qulr 6y ago

Bring back matte screens too. Glossy screens have been a disaster, not only ergonomically but also in terms of the never-ending "staingate" scandal of antireflective coating peeling off the screen.

mozey 6y ago
Miss the matte screen on my 2008 MPB

exabrial 6y ago

I'm excited about this! Lotta different ways that could go but I'm hoping it's Magsafe-over-usbc so their whole lineup can be protected! (Well they need to ditch lightning on iPhones, but yeah).

raldi 6y ago

I agree about the return of function keys and preservation of Touch ID, but that's hardly a prediction; it's what they're already doing as they roll out new machines. If you think Apple is returning the SD slot or adding a dongle to the power cord, you don't know Apple. But maybe they've found a way to magnetically connect USB-C while still maintaining compatibility and avoiding dongles.

markus_zhang 6y ago

I think it's a lot difficult for people NOT to change than to change. I do understand the reason: New employees seeking for ownership, teams need to grab for budget, etc. And I'd argue that keep changing is always better than NOT changing at all. The only thing is how to make more changes positive?

dwighttk 6y ago

>Schiller had squashed all hope of the SD card returning ... >Schiller said “probably not” but added that “nothing about the future is in stone and things can always change.” what?

rhacker 6y ago

Magsafe, was great unless you had a 5 year old laptop. After the 50th time you had a small magnetic rock get lodged into the plug and scrape the laptop's magsafe port enough, it stops being magnetic. I can't agree more on replacing the touch bar.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Xcelerate 6y ago

It's kind of funny, because the last laptop I purchased (and the one I am still using) was Apple's first retina MacBook Pro as soon as it was released in 2012. I've refused to upgrade since then because I felt that all of the newer MacBook's were inferior in some way. Now I'm finally thinking of upgrading again once the 16" is released, and it's sounding like the new laptop will look exactly like mine from 10 years ago. I'm not a fan of MagSafe though. It's always falling out whenever I slightly move my laptop around. And my thought with the touchbar is that they should replace it with physical keys, however, the keys should have tiny OLED displays beneath them. That way, if you want the function keys back, it will look at exactly like the rest of the keys on the keyboard, but if you want some other type of button, that's possible too.

zymhan 6y ago
IMO the last model of a generation is usually the best wrt Apple laptops. They usually have more efficient processors that run cooler, at the least.
shrimpx 6y ago
That 2012 laptop is amazing! I put an ssd in it and moved the original HDD into the CD slot for extra storage. Total powerhouse.
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  I have even installed Big Sur on mine and it runs fine. (Needs a patch though)

taf2 6y ago

An SD card is useful things other than just cameras it also is a great thing for 3d printers. Yes some printers have usb and maybe I should spend a day or figuring out ocotoprint but I usually just use my SD card and get on with printing. My lap has a MacBook Pro 2015. It’s both sturdy and has all the nice features plenty of usb-b ports and sd card slot... newer PCBs are finally shipping with usb c support but I don’t see things like the teensy having usb c anytime soon...

JIBitator 6y ago

oh man... if they remove the touch bar I will be so happy. I have a macbook pro 2015 and I was planning to replace it next year with the M1 16 inches. That would be the perfect timing. Generation 2015 powa!

paulryanrogers 6y ago

No mention of user swappable batteries or repairability. :(

projektfu 6y ago

I can't help but think this leak is bad for Apple's Mac business. It will be a while before these potentially superior Macs will be available, cannibalizing the sales of the existing line. I'm looking to replace my laptop soon and these potential features make me comfortable waiting and seeing. I hope that they would make it chargeable from either the Magsafe or the USB-C, like the Surface.

Aperocky 6y ago
I feel like Kuo has been subject to a honeypot. I don't think there's any reason to bring back old ports or magSafe. I can totally understand getting rid of the touch bar though - but I don't even expect that to actually happen. Given how long the god awful butterfly keyboard persisted, I don't expect these less awful feature (and some, like USB-C, is positive) to go.
cududa 6y ago
Yes, that’s generally why companies don’t like leaks around new product announcements..
theonemind 6y ago
For all we know, this sort of thing might get leaked intentionally as a middle ground between between annoucing it and keeping it a secret. The most interested and active users will know about leaked information, and they can put off buying decisions and have greater long term satisfaction. If you bought a machine and 2 months later, exactly what you wanted two months ago comes out, you probably won't enjoy that experience very much. However, less discriminating users probably both won't know about the leak, and won't find certain things coming out quite as disappointing. I think it probably works out decently for Apple even if they really don't want the leaks, much the way piracy probably helped Microsoft Windows by helping make it a complete de-factor standard (though Microsoft seemed aware of that and seemed not to crack down as hard as they might for that reason.)

mindvirus 6y ago

Touch Bar is interesting - it's really nifty, but I feel like touch typists hate it, and non touch typists love it. My personal totally long shot wish is that Apple would switch to an ortholinear keyboard (because everyone else will do it too then).

Aperocky 6y ago
They should really just sell both version, I bought the new mac air precisely because it doesn't have a touch bar.
theonemind 6y ago
If you never have to look at the keyboard for anything ever, the touchbar takes away an useful row of keys and forces you to start looking down at the keyboard. I can't overstate how annoying someone who never has to look at the keyboard might find this. https://robservatory.com/the-fundamental-problem-with-the-touch-bar/ https://robservatory.com/the-fundamental-problem-with-the-to... "The Touch Bar, despite its name, is actually an Eye Bar: It forces your eyes off the screen, down to the Touch Bar, back up to the screen, repeat ad infinitum. There's nothing physical about interacting with the Touch Bar, aside from using your finger: There are no defined button areas, and there's no haptic feedback when you tap something. So you absolutely must look at the Touch Bar to interact with it. When the new MacBooks were released, I spent about 30 minutes testing a Touch Bar-equipped version in an Apple Store, and this constant moving of my eyes' focus from keyboard to screen to keyboard to screen to…well, you get the idea…was incredibly disruptive. To use the Touch Bar, I'd have to change my focus to the keyboard, then refocus on the screen, taking time to find my active window and locate the mouse cursor. This did not make for a pleasant user experience."

acd 6y ago

I think Apple needs to rethink and design products that are built for serviceability. That means the end user should be able to service most parts of the laptop themselves. No plastic prying tools should ever be needed to service a laptop. Battery -> User replaceable under a hatch. SSD -> User replaceable RAM -> User replaceable Screen -> User replaceable Motherboard -> User replaceable Keyboard -> User replaceable. Wifi Network card -> User replaceable. And with that I mean you design to make the product easy to repair. Using standard Philips or torx screws whenever possible. Current Apple products means using a lots of dongles for what should be built in. Make repair videos on how to mend broken parts, put those on video sharing platforms like Youtube. We are having global warming, that needs that all products needs to be easy to repair so that we have less waste on the planet.

mcot2 6y ago
Isn’t the RAM basically integrated onto the SoC now?
- TacticalTable 6y ago
  With the M1 as-is, yes. However, it's entirely possible that future M1X or the like will keep RAM separate.
usaphp 6y ago
> Current Apple products means using a lots of dongles for what should be built in. Who decides what should be built in? Some people might need SD card reader, others will need HDMI out, lan port is requested by others, I on the other hand don’t use any of that and would rather have my laptop to be lighter and thinner.
eknkc 6y ago
I don’t think most if these are possible with the recent form factors. I mean battery hatch / battery case itself would be a huge volume loss in the chasis. People talk about repairability etc but at the end, most will demand the sexy and thin laptops.

jasonhansel 6y ago

Lenovo tried the touch bar approach with the X1 Carbon. But it didn't work out, users complained, and the next generation of the X1 removed it again. I wonder how many laptop manufacturers will try this again, only to need to revert it...

strogonoff 6y ago

All the recent buzz about Apple’s supposed MBP updates traces back to a single source, which also has promised Apple AR glasses in 2020 (I bet this is why Bloomberg didn’t feel comfortable putting the name on the rumour). The idea of additional I/O ports seems questionable, given performance of Thunderbolt 2 and USB 4.0 in latest devices. (Support for SD cards, which has the author so excited, seems especially dubious to me. Sure, there are professionals using SD cards, but just as well there are professionals using CF cards or microSD cards; it’d seem quite un-Apple to try to satisfy everyone.) Then there’s the obvious stuff (microLED).

nt2h9uh238h 6y ago

Touch bar is great, but should be an ADD-ON above the function keys, not replacing them.

nt2h9uh238h 6y ago

MacBook Pro wish 2021: rounded-edges end-to-end screen, that's the future, like the iPhone and iPad have.

beyondcompute 6y ago

Yes to the physical keys instead of touch bar!

yarcob 6y ago

The nice thing about my 2015 Macbook Pro is that it's useful without any accessories. I can just throw it in a bag and walk out the door. It's got enough battery life that I usually don't need to bring a charger. It has all the ports that I ever need. I can hook it up to a projector with the built in HDMI port, I can put in the SD card from my camera, or I can quickly copy files from someones thumb drive. I don't need to think about bringing the right kind of cables for what I'm planning to do. Sure, the new Macs are a lot faster, but every Mac released after 2015 would be a downgrade for me.

oneplane 6y ago
I have the 2015, 2017 and a 2020 and they are pretty much all the same that way. None need a power source for normal workdays, I don't have a camera that needs to have memory cards swapped out, and all presenter displays are either ClickShare or AppleTV and thus wireless. I don't accept random mass storage devices, and for those few times that I do want one I use a multiport adapter which works with both the 2015 and all the newer ones (USB-C and USB-A connectors), which I also use for when WiFi is down and you need Ethernet. It's not much bigger than any Ethernet adapter anyway.
spijdar 6y ago
It's great that the built in ports cover all your needs, but my experience with laptops has been more complicated. You use a projector as an example of a use for your HDMI port. In my limited experience doing presentations, I've run across a mixture of HDMI, VGA, and even DisplayPort for some reason. Once, even though I was using a Dell Precision with built in HDMI and VGA, I ended up using a usb-c dongle with combo HDMI+VGA+DP ports I keep in my bag. My coworker had to wait for someone to get a more specific passive converter for their laptop which didn't have usb-c. Obviously YMMV, but I've found the combo of usb-c plus a compact multi port adapter to be indispensable, even on a laptop with a crap-ton of ports.
shrimpx 6y ago
My take is Jony Ive went extreme on form factor and totally lost his grip on users. He wanted an objectively perfect, extremely thin portless wireless machine. Now that he’s gone the design team is descending from the Ivery tower and undoing his work, meeting users halfway again.

chaostheory 6y ago

I want my glowing Apple logo back. The only thing good about the Touch Bar is fingerprint ID, but I can do without it

egypturnash 6y ago

I never needed an SD card until suddenly I needed one. And then there I was with one permanantly lodged in my old Air's SD port, with my music collection on it, because I needed more room on the HD. I have been enjoying being able to dock my current Pro to the desk setup with one cable that carries power/video/audio/USB but I keep on eyeing my slowly-filling hard drive and worrying about what I'll do when I need more space. I hate carrying external drives around. A "magsafe USBc" connector would be super awesome, IMHO.

evan_ 6y ago
There are a bunch of magnetic usb c adapters on Amazon for not very much money, I can’t speak to quality

rootusrootus 6y ago

Unrealistic though it may be, I'd rather they just stuffed a half dozen USB-C connectors on either side instead, and the world could stop making custom connectors for every different device.

harel 6y ago

Apple hardware is really top notch. I am a Linux person but if I squint hard enough I can use the Mac OS (with some swearing weaved in). But I cannot use that terrible keyboard. Why do I need key combos for page up/down? Why are they useless buttons like that top squiggle on the top left but no page up/down buttons (there is space for them). Why some things are Cmd+ and some are Ctrl+? Why no key travel?

unethical_ban 6y ago
I enjoy typing on the macbook more than my Lenovo now. I've just gotten used to it, I suppose. The key combos take some learning - protip: Few things are "ctrl+" unless it is Firefox or terminal, in my experience. I do agree in missing the nav buttons.
helmholtz 6y ago
I have the newest XPS. It's a 15" laptop, it's huge. And yet, they've gone and put Home and End under F11 and F12. Meanwhile, Printscreen is under F10, which no one needs, and NOTHING is under F9. Also, F5 is covered with the brightness key! I can either refresh or have brightness, while F9, which is used nowhere, is blank. There used to be such a nice last column along the rightmost edge of the keyboard with Home, Page Up, Page Down and End. Bring them back! It's stupid design to have. The other thing, which I take is the same for the macbook, is that the trackpad is so huge that the edge of the keyboard digs into the forearms, causing pain for any reasonable length of use.
- harel 6y ago
  I've been using Thinkpads for a long time, currently on my second X1. That keyboard is bliss compared to the mac. And I have page up, down, home, end... I feel spoiled for navigation (not to mention actual Function keys).
shrimpx 6y ago
Btw that squiggle button — I assume you mean ~ — is completely instrumental to programming and using a shell. It’s also the switcher key between windows of the same app (cmd-~ as opposed to cmd-tab).

anonymousab 6y ago

I would like to pay more for a usb-c magsafe connector. Even 5x the cost of the current cheap cables would be worth it if it 1) actually worked 2) was standards compliant in all the ways that mattered. USB-C is a dice roll right now and the magnetic ones even moreso.

jxdxbx 6y ago

The only ports I want to see on a modern laptop is just a bunch of fully capable USB C ports. An SD card slot would be fine, and if there's something like MagSafe, I'd want USB C charging to still be possible so I can just travel with a single kind of charger and cable. Lots of random USB-charging gadgets have switched to USB C. I like the idea of making USB A, one of the worst port designs of all time, die a slow painful death. I am very happy with my thumb drive-shaped portable card read that has USB C on one side and A on the other.

mixmastamyk 6y ago
Let me introduce you to the db25 parallel port. How about the PS/2, which took about thirty seconds to align correctly.

dang 6y ago

Related from 2 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25788129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25788129

empressplay 6y ago

Apple should bring back the 2015 MBP but with Apple Silicon and a USB-C port and call it the MBP Classic!

bch 6y ago
MBP SE
- behnamoh 6y ago
  For $399 I would buy it!
Synaesthesia 6y ago
MBP SE/30

aledalgrande 6y ago

Very excited. I got an Intel MBP in 2020, but these models have enough that I am willing to switch. The question is who will buy my maxed out Intel laptop when the M1 is faster and costs less? XD Also wondering if this new version will have M1X or M2, just a M1 that supports more RAM or an M2 with updated architecture?

qwerty456127 6y ago

So cool. I probably am going to buy a MacBook if they bring everything back. Definitely buying something else if they don't. MacBooks look interesting but I'd rather buy something with an SD slot, physical F-keys, analog audio jack and at least 1 classic USB port to accompany Thunderbolt 4 Type-C ports.

virtue3 6y ago
I dont think there's a particular reason to have USB-A when you can just use a usb-c-to-a adapter. Sure, you have to carry a dongle around but USB-C is just so much better in all aspects ( reliability, usage, speed, unidirectional). Plus it would keep the machine smaller (the physical height is an issue with the cases).
- qwerty456127 6y ago
  I know USB-C is better, but I also know the overwhelming majority of thumb drives (as well as other peripherals) around are USB-A. Doesn't being free from having to carry an extra dongle around feel good? I don't insist it (a USB-A port) should be there but I would be pleased to have one. Its lack would mean I would have to always carry a dongle with me. Why not build it in if you always carry it with you anyway? > Plus it would keep the machine smaller (the physical height is an issue with the cases). Some extra millimetres are exactly the thing I absolutely couldn't care less about. Completely irrelevant. Definitely not willing to sacrifice, let alone pay anything for this.
  - virtue3 6y ago
    I honestly view smaller as lighter, and that I do -really- care about. I travel a lot, so having something ultra portable was my favorite part of the MBP 13". I even had a smaller and lighter 45W usbC charger I could use for it. I really really really enjoyed that. and I just kept a dongle in my travel kit with my charger and other cables, nbd :) (but yeah everyone is different, I'd probably just invest in USB-c thumb drives, or the ones that have ports on both end for C and A).

mixmastamyk 6y ago

Typing on our 2013 Mac Pro is downright luxurious and I wouldn’t trade it for any super thin anything. Would also pay thousands for an M2 motherboard upgrade. :D

faichai 6y ago
Was thinking the same thing, given thermal envelope improvements made possible by M1/M1X/M2 would be so cool to be able to upgrade my perfectly viable MacBook Pro 2015 with a new logic board. Upgrade cycles are so wasteful.

beyondcompute 6y ago

> …universally hated butterfly keyboards. Not true. I would choose butterfly over a wobbly one (e.g. 2019 Macbook Pro). > Nobody wants a dongle. Not true. I do agree that an SD card slot is convenient to have. But I have no significant problems using an adaptor. USB-A feels like a thing from the past to me. So I am not sure I would want it on the laptop. The HDMI is the only thing I would not mind to retain (because of overscan issues, etc.)

gumby 6y ago

Author seems to hang a lot of faith on rumor. Maybe some of those rumored things will happen, but it's pretty unlikely that all of them will happen. (I'd be OK if the touchbar vanished though!) Apple just announced a magnetic feature for their phones called "MagSafe". What's the chance that the revived MacBook feature called "MagSafe" won't be something phone related? A charging region on the notebook seems hard to believe but stranger things have shipped. The author is also quite dismissive of the 12" MacBook which for me was a breakthrough product. I traveled around the world with one in my bag, wrote a ton of code, and often had to check to see if it was in my bag, it was so light. I'd still be using it except it turned out one day not to be rainstorm-proof :-(. As for the SD slot: I asked Jobs about this in the early 2000s (this was around when PCMCIA was phasing out) and he was dismissive for the same reason: "Oh, you have an SD card? Do you also use CF? And Memory Stick?" This was painful because indeed, I used all three. The fact is the TB3 (USB4) ports are powerful enough that they can connect to almost anything a user has. I know everybody's milage varies, but for me that's more powerful than a dedicated port I only use occasionally (as FW400 was for me) or never (FW800 in my experience).