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Heavy is the Head that wears the AirPods Max

• presentation 6y ago
  I've switched out a heavy set of over-ear headphones specifically because they were too heavy for me, and would make my neck feel uncomfortable after some time. Also, don't knock earbuds as being innately less noise-cancelling than over-ear headphones - in-ear monitors (IEMs) that enter your ear canal and produce a good seal can passively filter a great deal of sound, musicians use them all the time and I used to wear my pair (without any active noise cancellation) on airplanes—they work at least 75% as well as Airpods Pro active cancellation does, while sounding really great. But after a long period of listening like on a long-haul flight, the physical pressure of those get tiring on my ears... and active noise cancellation also makes my ears tired after a while too... so seems there's no silver bullet. Honestly I've just gone to not using headphones of any kind for extended periods of time and listening with speakers whenever practical.
• rich_sasha 6y ago
  I think they only feel heavy because the reviewer was wearing them wrong.
  • the-dude 6y ago
    I can't tell if you are joking or not : https://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-holding-it-wrong/ https://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-holding-it-wrong/
• boomskats 6y ago
  I can't help but feel that this is an explicit strategic design decision for Apple. It lets them position the AirPods Max as having (sound and build) Quality over (quiet) Comfort. It creates a market position for them without having to try very hard, and allows them years of incremental (yet revolutionary) weight saving improvements for future generations of the product. (note that I'm not implying the QCs have poor build quality, just that a heavier product implies better BQ. I am implying that the QCs aren't difficult to beat on sound quality though)
  • purplecats 6y ago
    where does the heaviness come from?
    • Veen 6y ago
      They're largely made of aluminium and steel, not plastic.
• bjornedstrom 6y ago
  A bit off topic, but if you wear those around Stockholm, Sweden where I live, you will probably be robbed. I never really understood the combination of noise cancellation and home use only. I think noise cancellation really shines when out and about in public, like the subway. But I can't imagine anyone using those things on the go, at least not where I live.
  • kilroy123 6y ago
    I thought Stockholm was ridiculously safe? (I've never been to Sweden)
    • progre 6y ago
      Depends on where you are and the time of day.
    • dagw 6y ago
      It's safer than say London, Birmingham, Paris or Rome. Less safe than say Oslo, Amsterdam, Edinburgh or Copenhagen. Basically in the middle among major European cities. Compared to the US it is much safer than Chicago, Detroit or Atlanta and less safe than for example Denver or Boston.
      • mrisoli 6y ago
        Comparatively it's one of the safest cities in the world, as in, its less safe then maybe 4-5 cities in your list? Sure it has a couple of dodgy areas, but I lived in Sodermalm and Kungsholmen and never felt unsafe around those, I moved from Brazil and my hometown gets as many robberies reports in a day as Stockholm gets a year. I can understand some people might be targeted for these status items but I never had any issues moving around even with an expensive laptop, phone, headphones with me, taking the public transport every day.
      • jonwinstanley 6y ago
        It’s hard to say a city is safe/not safe as they are so big, and it varies wildly across areas
• torgian 6y ago
  You can get some really really good headphones for 500 dollars... even some basic custom IEMs for that price. Somehow I feel like the audio quality and build quality is not going to be as good as the companies that actually make headphones for a living. Edit: Also, the fact that these don't fold, and that they're supposedly for using in public, make these even less attractive.
  • dagw 6y ago
    I don't think Apple is even going try to claim that they can compete with other $500 headphones in pure audio quality. Their pitch is entirely going to focus on design, easy pairing that just works every time, and clever audio processing 'magic' like spatial audio.
  • Someone 6y ago
    I won’t make a claim about this product (might not even if I had heard them), but Apple does make headphones for a living. https://macdailynews.com/2018/11/05/apple-is-the-worlds-leading-headphone-maker/ https://macdailynews.com/2018/11/05/apple-is-the-worlds-lead... (2018): “When its three headphone brand categories are combined (EarPods, AirPods, Beats – an Apple company) Apple has the leading market share in headphone ownership with 24%. Sony is second with 22%, followed by fellow traditional CE stalwarts Panasonic and Bose” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-27/apple-ceding-wireless-earbuds-market-share-even-as-airpods-grow https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-27/apple-ced...: “The AirPods have come to define the true wireless (TWS) earphones category, with Apple accounting for nearly half of all sales in 2019 and expected to grow to 82 million units this year, according to Counterpoint Research data. More affordable alternatives from Chinese rivals, however, have eroded Apple’s lead and the Silicon Valley company now finds itself with just over a third of the market, at 35%”
  • adamlett 6y ago
    Somehow I feel like the audio quality and build quality is not going to be as good as the companies that actually make headphones for a living Audio quality? Maybe not. Although it probably depends on how you precisely define audio quality. I’m not aware of any competing headphones that have a feature equivalent to the directional audio that these AirPods have. But build quality? Apple will give any remotely comparable product a run for its money. Very few companies can match Apple’s expertise when it comes to mass producing hardware products with high-end materials and matching build quality. I think it’s close to a certainty that any headphones that are undeniably nicer than these ones, will also be significantly more expensive.
• trextrex 6y ago
  Unless I'm missing something, aluminum ear cups seems to be a bad idea for colder weather. I wouldn't want to put cold metal on my ear every time I want to hear music?
  • _ph_ 6y ago
    The aluminium part of the ear cups doesn't come into contact with your body while wearing the headphones. There are thick cushions which are in between. Also, their main usage probably isn't for outdoor use, but more towards indoor.
  • jmnicolas 6y ago
    From what i gathered from the article they're an indoor proposition, too heavy for outdoor activities according to the author. It's never going to touch your ears anyway, but your fingers might stay glued to them if it's freezing.
  • ch_sm 6y ago
    I've got the Beoplay H7 (which are mostly aluminium) and I can report that this is not an issue. Your ears never touch those bits.
• jamespetercook 6y ago
  $549 is expensive. £549 is madness
  • kissiel 6y ago
    £91.50 in the UK price is VAT. You get expensive vat on expensive products :)
  • chadcmulligan 6y ago
    They're $899 AUD, an iPad Air is $899 AUD. Bose 700 is around $470 and I though they were a crazy price when released.
• supernova87a 6y ago
  I have no idea what the build is like, but if I were dropping $550 on some headphones, I would want them to not feel loose, rattley, or like they have plastic hinges/joints that are probably going to gradually accumulate "play" or break after a year. I would want shiny stainless steel joints that feel "buttery" yet reasonably tight. A feeling that if you accidentally sat on them or tossed them in a bag and got crushed, something might bend, rather than crack and break. Btw, I wonder how they will let people try them in the stores. Seems like putting something on your head/ears that others have tried before you feels a little icky.
  • qz2 6y ago
    I don't know about that. My HD25's are 17 years old and it's plastic on plastic on them and they are as good as new. I mostly use bottom end Airpods though because they are more convenient and sound just as good!
    • gwd 6y ago
      I've had Bose QC headphones in some form or other since the 90's, and the plastic has never seemed degraded. For my previous non-Bluetooth pair, the earpads eventually wore out and sort of disintegrated (after something like 8-10 years), but I bought a pair of replacement pads online and everything was back to new again. Haven't had that issue with my QC35II's yet. All that to say -- I'd think all things being equal, good-quality plastic & lighter would be the way to go.
• rexf 6y ago
  What a bunch of bad takes. He complains it's too heavy, but then puts down other, lighter products made out of plastic. He also puts down using it wired, even though it seems like a product to use at your desk (since it's heavy and doesn't have water resistance). Keep in mind, an audio cable is not included in the box, so maybe Apple is sending a signal to use it wirelessly. Also, he doesn't think this device needs an off switch. This means you get to carry around the case just to put your device in standby. The case is an elaborate off button since it doesn't offer much protection.
  • user-the-name 6y ago
    > He complains it's too heavy, but then puts down other, lighter products made out of plastic. Well, yeah? That makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Metal ones are going to feel more solid and reliable than plastic, but will be heavier.
    • bird_monster 6y ago
      Complaining about both sides isn't really a take, is it? "I don't like any available option" isn't really worthwhile writing, is it?
      • throw0101a 6y ago
        > "I don't like any available option" isn't really worthwhile writing, is it? It is, because it tells product designers that there is a gap in the market that no one is serving, and that they could release a product to fill that void.
      • pc86 6y ago
        If he didn't write about it then Apple wouldn't keep sending him free shit.
      • user-the-name 6y ago
        It's neither "complaining" nor a "take". It is stating what the various pros and cons of different options are.
• _ph_ 6y ago
  It is a funny thing with these headphones. For a long time, I had planned to buy another set of headphones - ironically because Apple refuses to exchange the worn-out earpads of my older beats. It is quite bad for the environment, if you have to dispose a product because a part like earpads, which has a very obvious wear limiting its lifespan, cannot be exchanged. Same of course applies for the battery, but that is still ok. Hearing about the rumors of Apple headphones I postponed any purchase, as I was curious to see first what these headphones would be like and quite willing to buy them, even if more expensive than what I had before. So why arent the AirPods Max not an instant buy for me now? First of all, the release 2 weeks before Christmas is odd timing, but that probably was beyond the control by Apple, they were not ready for production early enough, also this means limited stock. Basically the question was already decided as there was no chance to get them with the initial run and now are out of stock till spring. A rather big gripe of mine are the colors. It is great to have different colors, buy why are they all so toned down? For the same reason I don't like the identical colors of the iPad Air. For some things I really like the colors to be ff0000 or 0000ff, alternatively at least 000000. I would like to see whether the "space gray" is dark enough, in the video by iJustine they looked nice, would like to check that out in a store before ordering. The other one would be the rather weird case. Not only is it odd and I really don't need a case for my headphones in the first place, it is also mandatory to use to be able to switch them off. Which is probably the reason I won't get them. I don't want to have to put my headphones in a case every time I put them off for more than a very short while. Especially not in a goofy one. There needs to be an off switch on the device. Shouldn't be difficult to reprogram one of the two switches to work that way. The other one is of course the issue with the device compatibility. As Gruber points it out: the spatial audio is great, but there seems no way to actually use this. I am not going to watch movies on my iPhone (I actually did this once to test my Homepods as a movie sound stage, which worked great. But I did it exactly once for satisfying the curiosity, watching a movie on the iPhone is no experience I want to replicate). This is a huge stinker and I don't know what Apple is thinking. It is already more than aggravating, that you cannot (reasonably) use Homepods as your Mac speakers. I just set up a new MacBook Pro, and indeed, my Homepods appear als sound output devices in the audio control, but as separate devices. How is it possible, that they don't communicate their pairing to Macs? Again, what is Apple thinking? As a consequence, I am quite undecided yet. They do tick quite a few boxes, good build quality, probably great sound, Apple certainly has used all their vast acoustic skills on those. Battery and earpads are exchangeable, they should have a good life time. The price certainly gave me a short pause, this is not impulse by territory. I would be willing to pay it though for a product I am convinced about.
• kkapelon 6y ago
  >Once you get used to noise-canceling headphones on an airplane, there’s no going back I tend to disagree. Most people underestimate good passive isolation and have never tried good closed back headphones. Just spend $99 on Sennheiser HD280PRO, try them on a flight trip and make your own decision.
  • ubermonkey 6y ago
    I've literally never heard anyone make this argument before. It's wild. Nice Sennheiser over-ear cans are okay on a plane, but honestly aren't as good as solid in-ear options (e.g., Etymotic). Sennheisers (or others) with ANC that are also over ear are FAR AND AWAY superior. It's astonishing how nice it is for the drone of the plane to just VANISH vs. being merely muffled.
  • jedberg 6y ago
    I have a pair of in-ear headphones that isolate sound better than any Bose I've ever tried. It's just a matter of finding the right tip size to create a seal. My tips actually make a popping noise when I pull them out.
  • floatingatoll 6y ago
    To provide a view from the opposite end of this spectrum, I use noise-canceling headphones over passive custom-fit earplugs on flights.
  • jiggawatts 6y ago
    I disagree with your disagreement! I've had good closed headphones before, and they're... okay... but nothing like a good active noise cancelling headphones. For example, the Sony WH-1000XM3 is already a relatively good closed headphone! If you put one on with the noise cancelling disabled, it still provides a quite decent amount of isolation. But then instant you press that little switch... near total silence. I used to tell people that first class tickets on planes are a waste of money because: You're still on a plane, it's still noisy, you just get better food. But now with my Sony headphones, cattle class feels like first class. It's bliss: I can sleep. I can watch movies and actually understand what people are saying. I can read a book without feeling like there's a running hair dryer behind my head the whole time. The cries of babies are completely inaudible.
• Shivetya 6y ago
  Put it this way, the weight of these headphones is between that of an iPad Mini and iPad Air As a motorcyclist the weight of a helmet is a real concern usually rivaling the safety rating but always higher than airflow which itself is high on the list. I really do not see myself wearing any set of headphones that weigh this much, the XM4s by Sony are noticeable so weighing half again more has to really stand out. That he emphasized their inertia pretty much eliminates them completely. I still really feel that the team involved here reached a ship it or shelve deadline after four years of development. Even the case looks like a last minute tie in which reveals two other sore points, they don't fold and they don't have a means to turn them off outside the case.
• elicash 6y ago
  Gruber won the “first takes” with just his headline.
  • asplake 6y ago
    Referencing Shakespeare or Stormzy I wonder
• corobo 6y ago
  Oof they're not water resistant? But they're headphones.. on your head.. outside! I missed that one. I'll revisit them when they release the S/Pro/Max version. Just saved future me a cool 500 quid, cheers John!
  • rimliu 6y ago
    I may be getting old but over-ear headphones still look weird to me outside. Besides the look I do not like not be be aware about the world around me.
    • corobo 6y ago
      If I pay 500 quid for a pair of headphones I don't plan on removing them haha
    • ghaff 6y ago
      >I do not like not be be aware about the world around me I don't even like wearing earbuds on a forest path. I really can't imagine over the ear headphones around a city, even sitting in public transit.
      • jen20 6y ago
        For those even remotely hard of hearing, the “transparency” mode on the Airpod Pro model _improves_ awareness of surroundings.
        • ghaff 6y ago
          I admit I just got a pair but haven't really tried them out yet. I imagine it would take a lot of habit breaking for me to get comfortable with them walking around. If you're actually listening to music etc.--i.e. actually have a reason to have them in your ear--I think I'd still find it isolating.
        • loudmax 6y ago
          Mythbuster Adam Savage has spoken about the improvement to his quality of life that hearing aids brought him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Ptuq85R8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Ptuq85R8Y Not Airpods, but I wouldn't be surprised if Airpods offered similar qualities.
• mrkwse 6y ago
  > Every other pair of over-the-ear headphones I’ve ever used feel a bit cheap in comparison This has always surprised my as someone who's owned a couple of pairs of B&W P-series headphones (P5 then PX). Portable headphones should be built to last, not just flimsy plastic. B&W got it right with metal construction (and with the newest PX models forged carbon fibre), no surprises Apple is building robust headphones too. What B&W provide though, is a really solid benchmark (of many) (with the exception of spatial audio - which from Gruber sounds like it still has some shortcomings to overcome). They're £200 cheaper, really substantial and solid construction (with a proper hard carrying case - although similar limited folding), the newest carbon models will be noticeably lighter (if still a substantial 310g). Obviously the Sony XM4s and Bose 700s are well in view too (although plastic construction can make them seem a less premium alternative). I expect these will sell relatively well, but I can't see them flying off the shelves like their in-ear namesakes in such a crowded and competitive market, even with Apple's software bonuses.
  • sombrero_guitar 6y ago
    They seem to be selling pretty well depending on how many Apple manufactured. If you want them you are going to have to wait until March already. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/12/08/airpods-max-shipping-estimates/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/12/08/airpods-max-shipping-es...
  • jontaydev 6y ago
    In terms of build quality, I've always thought Bang & Olufsen made the best headphones. The H9 series is made with aluminum and leather, and costs just slightly less than AirPods Max.
  • GuB-42 6y ago
    > Portable headphones should be built to last, not just flimsy plastic. Good plastic is not flimsy. Polycarbonate, an almost commodity plastic, is really strong and light. The next step: composites are way better than any metal if you want a good strength-to-weight ratio. The best, most expensive bikes are made out of carbon fiber composite for a reason. Plastic is commonly used as casing material for stuff designed for rough environments. Portable power tools, PA speakers, even guns. So if something designed to be used on the battlefield can be made of plastic, there is no problem for headphones worn, at worst, in the subway. The only problem with plastic is that it suffers from being cheap, as in, not expensive enough. People want expensive products to be made of expensive materials. Also, subconsciously we associate weight with quality, so much that cheap manufacturers sometimes add metal inserts to their otherwise low quality products to trick people into thinking they are better than they really are. That it to say, unless you put a premium on look and feel (nothing wrong with that), don't hesitate to buy plastic headphones, they can last you a lifetime as long as the right plastic is used at the right place.
• germinalphrase 6y ago
  I’ve done some binaural recording in the past, hand built stereo speakers, (as well as experienced various surround sound systems), but I am not a serious or dedicated audiophile by any means. That said, while spatial audio does sound different than stereo, the purported ‘surround sound’ effect is mostly lost on me (even testing just now with G’s recommendation of The Mandalorian). Am I missing something here?
• ubermonkey 6y ago
  I'm very much the target market for the APMs, so I read this with interest. Well, I mean, I would be, if I still got on planes. I own a nice pair of Sennheisers with active noise cancellation. They're AMAZING on planes, or other noisy environments, but like any full-sized set of headphones they're not something I'd wear moving around. Since COVID happened, mine have been on a shelf -- if I want headphones in the house, I just use my AirPods or the older set of wired Sennheisers semi-permanently set up next to the couch. But yeah, I'm interested in these for the post-COVID world. One thing gave me a little pause, though, prior to Gruber's piece, and that was my assumption that Apple wouldn't make it possible to use these in a wired mode at all. My Senns CAN be used that way, and it makes a big difference on a long-haul flight. If you can use your own nice headphones with the seatback system, you'll have a much nicer time, and I just assumed Apple wouldn't do that. I'm VERY pleased to see they allowed for that: "You can use AirPods Max as wired headphones with a Lightning to 3.5 mm headphone jack cable". There's lots of stuff I like about my wireless ANC-equipped Sennheisers, but they don't sound as good as the wired set by my couch. (I mean, no surprise; the older wired set is like $300, and the wireless ones were half that.) Additionally, the wireless ones have all the sorts of goofy interface bullshit and dodgy Bluetooth things going on that I associated with basically all non-Apple Bluetooth things. I'd absolutely pay a premium to have wireless headphones that rival my fancy wired Sennheisers, include ANC, and operate seamlessly. That'd be a no-brainer. But, as I said, only if travel actually becomes a thing again. ;)
  • killjoywashere 6y ago
    I am traveling (I’m the kind of person you expect to travel in a pandemic, wear a mask!). And I have Gruber’s comparator: the Bose QC35 II. I carry mine in their case hooked to a carabiner hooked to my briefcase, so the APM’s highly exposed wrapper of a case is not my cup of tea. I can also see the utility for movies at home so I appreciate the MacBook/Apple TV problem. Those are 2 of my 3 main use cases (The other of course being VTCs like everybody else). I don’t think that I will be running out to replace my current headphones but when they get long in the tooth I might consider the second generation of this APM design. It’s not a retina MacBook where I would buy it pre-order as soon as the announcement is out. It’s a 2008 unibody MacBook. It has a compelling future but I want to see what version two is.
• mensetmanusman 6y ago
  How can you get a spatial audio effect from a screen the size of an iPhone? Is it that objects off screen and to the left can be heard before they enter the viewing area? I wish these had the Ultra Wideband antenna for spatial location applications. That would have been a fun API to mess with. That, and like the reviewer said, this has to happen with the next Apple TV.
  • sradman 6y ago
    Spatial audio comes from 5.1 surround sound and I am guessing that the sound source aware orientation comes from Ultra Wideband. I don’t know if Bluetooth has a profile that supports surround sound. Maybe the spatial audio only works on devices with the U1 chip.
  • Closi 6y ago
    > How can you get a spatial audio effect from a screen the size of an iPhone? The idea is that if you move your head with 5.1 surround sound the headphones will 'maintain the position' of the 5 speakers relative to the screen, which is supposed to stop breaking the immersion and makes your brain think the audio is more 3d than it is.
• LeoNatan25 6y ago
  These are limited to 256kbps low bandwidth Bluetooth. Leave it to Apple to change prices of hifi headphones, but make what amounts to laughable input quality. Expensive toys for rich people that really don’t know any better. Just like the XDR display, which was presented as “competing with industry titans at lower price”, but that ended up as complete bullshit claim by Apple. Sony’s competitors, however badly named, cost 350$ (before the usual discounts on Amazon and retailers), and have audio in, and support higher audio input fidelity. They still use low quality amp+dac, but still the end result is much better than this.
  • kissiel 6y ago
    Just a reminder that 256kbit is A LOT when using modern codecs. http://soundexpert.org/encoders-256-kbps http://soundexpert.org/encoders-256-kbps Where is this info form, btw? I'd love to read more specs. BT5 has a 2Mbit throughput for LE.
    • bryal 6y ago
      > Just a reminder that 256kbit is A LOT when using modern codecs. Seriously. Opus is close to transparent already at 128kbps.
  • n1xbuffoon 6y ago
    I know it’s tempting to believe only the audio specs matter, but would you buy a receiver with great output and only one jack? There’s more to it, perhaps. The ecosystem integration, materials are apparently above the plastic-y norm, the just works without fiddling with EQ... Oh and buying them is not compulsory. Really very little reason to even login to post this, given reality on the whole. Thanks for sharing I guess. Not sure how salty hot takes make HN “better” than Reddit. The rules mean nothing.
  • matthew-wegner 6y ago
    You're probably putting another DAC in the signal path with this, but you can plug in a 3.5mm audio source to the AirPods Max: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MR2C2AM/A/lightning-to-35mm-audio-cable-12m https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MR2C2AM/A/lightning-to-35...
• Kucher 6y ago
  Beats has been accused of adding weight to their headphones in the past that serves no obvious function other than to give them a premium feel. It will be interesting to see the teardown video.
  • Germanika 6y ago
    I get what you're saying, but I'd be very surprised if they added extra weight in these ones. They're made of solid metal and have magnets to hold the ear pads in. I imagine that's enough to account for their weight.
• losvedir 6y ago
  Maybe as an Android user, this is a thing I take for granted that just isn't really in the Apple ecosystem, but I'm used to a Chromecast and seamlessly streaming all my phone content to my TV. So when I was reading the section about the content having to be played on an iPhone or iPad, and how he can't use it with his Apple TV... I got really confused. Can you really not just stream your mobile content to the Apple TV? Then you'd have the big screen, but you could use your phone or iPad for keeping track of your head's orientation. Or can you stream it, but not, like, configure the location of your TV or something, for the purposes of the spatial audio?
  • judge2020 6y ago
    You can airplay almost all content, but I guess it doesn’t have Bluetooth 5.0 or other hardware it needs to work with the Max (there’s also no U1 chip[0], in case that could have been used to have the iphone work as a proxy or something). 0: https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/08/apple-didnt-include-its-u1-chip-for-ultra-wideband-in-the-new-airpods-max/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/08/apple-didnt-include-its-u1-ch...
  • snazz 6y ago
    AirPlay exists for that exact purpose, but I haven't seen anything confirming or denying whether spatial audio works with AirPlay.
    • yoz-y 6y ago
      Also some platforms block it. E.g.: Amazon Prime for downloaded videos.
  • jkubicek 6y ago
    It's the latter, you can hook the AirPods up to the AppleTV and hear the audio of whatever's playing, but you don't get the spatial audio experience.
• ho_schi 6y ago
  Aluminum is not better than plastic. Neither is plastic better than Aluminum. What matters quality and usage. Planes[1] without aluminum? Ouch. Cars[2] without plastic? Ouch. I prefer ThinkPads because the use high quality plastic chassis and keyboards. Polycarbonate, ABS or whatever doesn't matter to me. Inside the use also magnesium and aluminum. High quality plastics are better when used with skin contact, especially regarding the keyboard and mouse. I regret that phones made with polycarbonate are gone, removable back cover, Qi without glass at back and they don't shatter when you drop them like the 800 $/€ stuff from Apple or Samsung. What I don't want on my lap is a MacBook. When it get hot, that not comfortable. TLDR What looks good in first sight isn't good to use or in long term durability. [1] Actually they use a lot composite material within modern planes like the B747-8, B787, A350 and so on :) [2] Excepting the original Audi A2, a great piece of aluminum :) PS: I've seen people buying keyboards and mice made of aluminium. I cannot imagine something more uncomfortable.
  • OldHand2018 6y ago
    Plastic does have issues though - my wife's ThinkPad had a small piece of plastic holding the battery break. If the battery moved a little too much, the computer would shut down. So she sent it in for service. When she got the computer back, they had replaced the entire bottom of the computer, plus replaced the battery. Great, right? Except now the bottom of the computer is a different color than the top of the computer, and the battery is a 3rd color! It's ridiculous, but that's the thing you get with plastic. UV light changes the color over time.
• fbelzile 6y ago
  > ... definitely feels like they’re intended for stationary use. Their lack of water resistance aside... > It’d be nice if [spatial audio] worked with MacBooks... But the device that’s just begging for spatial audio support is Apple TV... It’s crazy that Apple sells a premium movie-watching set-top box and very premium movie-listening wireless headphones and they don’t work together for a premium spatial audio movie-listening experience. So, AirPods Max are not water resistant and are heavy enough to feel intended for stationary use. Yet the two unique selling propositions of these headphones are: seamless transitions between Apple devices and spacial audio. Seems to me, if you're not going to be using these on-the-go for comfort reasons, you also won't be benefiting from the only two unique features they offer.
• bredren 6y ago
  Not the most positive review ever. The lack of Apple TV seems like a thing, but presumably an update is in the works. The weight thing seems like a design decision that gives insight into the job to be don’t by these headphones, which is very much not the job(s) handled by AirPods and AirPods Pro.
  • prionassembly 6y ago
    Gruber is an “embedded journalist” all the way. I kind of expect him to give random bad reviews to lower priority items to build credibility for when he gushes over the M1 processor. I’m not saying he takes orders from Cupertino but there’s no need for that. Heck, I was once a fanboy and I didn’t get freebies.
    • bredren 6y ago
      Sure. But what about the M1 is not to gush about?
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
• fractionalhare 6y ago
  > Every other pair of over-the-ear headphones I’ve ever used feel a bit cheap in comparison, because my over-the-ear headphones have all been constructed mostly of plastic. His comment here surprises me, because I'd have assumed Gruber knows the headphone space really well. He should check out a pair of Sennheiser HD800s or Audeze LCD series. At the high end, headphones definitely don't feel cheap. There are also plenty of models in the $500 range that don't feel cheap. In particular: headphones intended for the same use as the AirPods Max apparently are (stationary, high fidelity) usually don't feel cheap, and are also usually heavy! The rest of the review seems fine. The AirPods Max look nice and probably sound nice; if I didn't already have a pair of LCD-2s I might buy them. But I don't need another pair of headphones unless they're designed for portability. Based on what Gruber's saying here, they are not.
  • SllX 6y ago
    As I understand it, his priorities for headphones are comfort, noise cancellation and good sound, not necessarily in that order, but comfort is a big factor, so I can see why he focused in on the weight. If you’re looking for a solid AirPods Max review as headphones, not just as an Apple product and where it fits and yadda yadda yadda, this is not the review you want. I haven’t seen the review you want yet, but it should show up somewhere soon.
    • fractionalhare 6y ago
      Eh I don't need that review. I'm actually interested in the portability over anything else, because I'd consider wearing these over the AirPods Pro if they were light enough. I've already "invested" too much in hifi headphones and the whole setup as it is :)
      • SllX 6y ago
        Oh fair enough, I misread you! Still, hope my comment helps someone out there.
  • hnuser123456 6y ago
    Weight isn't too much of an issue if it's made up for with lots of padding. I had a corsair void pro and "upgraded" to the corsair virtuoso. The virtuoso is aluminum construction, looks far more professional, sounds a bit better, and has better battery life, but it's much heavier AND has LESS padding. It feels like it's trying to dig into my skull in no time. They would be much better if they sacrificed a little bit of sleekness to pack much more foam in the headband.
• kevincox 6y ago
  I am somewhat disappointed that we associate weight with quality. I assume this came from early plastics that were brittle and started to replace metal parts. But the science of plastics have come so far, we have plastics that are incredibly durable while still being lightweight. However many manufacturers are sticking to metal and glass for that "premium look and feed" even if it is heavier and less durable. Another issue might be the variety of plastic qualities that are hard to tell apart from a quick impression. Something that our launch followed by rush to quick reviews society can't adequately test. Glass and especially metals tend to have more predictable durability profiles. I think the main problem that we haven't solved in plastics is hardness, so glass screens are here to stay, but I wish we could move away from this plastic == low quality perception. I think it would result in better products at then end of the day.
  • buzzy_hacker 6y ago
    Reminds me of the crazy lightweight Richard Mille watches that are absurdly expensive but undeniably high-quality.
  • admiralspoo 6y ago
    Plastics do not have good heat conductivity. I can't stand plastic over-year headphones because my ears get too warm. Apple seems to have solved this problem with fabrics and metal construction.
    • bartvk 6y ago
      How about open over-ear headphones such as the Sennheiser HD 558?
  • thrwaway2020aug 6y ago
    The ski boot industry has been focused on reducing plastic weight / thickness while remaining sturdy. People very much appreciate the innovations there.
    • Kalium 6y ago
• kevincox 6y ago
  > I get it. If spatial audio needs hardware support on the playback Does it? If you assume that 99% of the time I am looking at the screen and just do that doesn't it provide basically perfect audio? Until very wide-FOV screens become common place it doesn't seem like you need to know where I am looking, it is within a couple of degrees from the center of the screen.
  • bfieidhbrjr 6y ago
    The point is to make it sound like you're in a 5.1 home theater so if you turn your head you should hear different things.
    • kevincox 6y ago
      My point is that this seems like a very very small loss.
      • _flux 6y ago
        Might be bigger than you think. Apparently people who use Realiser A16 have experienced the very same effect: once you fool the brains that speakers are stationary, you get a much more convincing effect about actually being in a studio. But that device also has other tricks in its sleeve.
  • andiareso 6y ago
    I'm not sure entirely, but IIRC it uses a chip to position the headphones spatially. Without the chip, the headphones wouldn't know which direction to set as "north" even with a gyroscope. Found link: https://locatify.com/blog/what-is-the-new-apple-u1-chip-and-why-is-it-important/ https://locatify.com/blog/what-is-the-new-apple-u1-chip-and-...
• cloogshicer 6y ago
  I don't understand how anyone could buy these, when the battery is not user-replaceable and they don't work passively without power. After ~5 years max, these will be unusable. I purchased the regular AirPods and this point was reached even sooner, after ~2 years of heavy usage they don't work longer than 15 minutes. With almost all other wireless over-ear headphones you can at least keep using them passively with a headphone jack when the battery inevitably degrades. Some even have user-replaceable batteries. I have been using old AKG headphones for > 15 years. Yet another throw-away product from a self-proclaimed environmentally friendly company.
  • dharbin 6y ago
    According to Gruber's article, you can use these as wired headphones by plugging in a "Lightning to 3.5mm headphone jack cable," but otherwise I agree with you. "Built to last" means more than the material choices (metal vs plastic), but also whether or not you can swap out the batteries.
    • numpad0 6y ago
      > Lightning to 3.5mm headphone jack cable ...without power?
      • pfortuny 6y ago
        You need the batteries (that is what is meant by "not working passively"). A passive headphone works without the need for batteries, at all. It may not have active noise cancellation or some other features, but it should work as a headphone.
    • cloogshicer 6y ago
      They work via cable, but only actively (with power). Source: https://www.slashgear.com/apple-airpods-max-water-resistance-compatibilty-charging-digital-crown-value-for-money-08650191 https://www.slashgear.com/apple-airpods-max-water-resistance...
  • lisper 6y ago
• dougmwne 6y ago
  I have a pair of Parrot Zik Noise Canceling Bluetooth headphones. At 326g they are undeniably and uncomfortably heavy. It's not about the headband or earcups, it's the mass it gives your head when turning, leaning, moving. I don't use them because of the weight. At 384g, the Airpod max is about 15% heavier. I currently have a pulled neck as a result of too many hours sitting at my desk. I cannot fathom wearing such a heavy headphone for long stretches. It would be injurious. That Apple would release such a heavy headphone for mass consumption is truly bonkers to me, much crazier than the price.
  • vorpalhex 6y ago
    > I currently have a pulled neck as a result of too many hours sitting at my desk. I've found doing face pulls at the gym significantly helped build up all the supporting back/neck musculature that I was beating up sitting at a desk all day. Rows also were pretty helpful for my lower back.
    • burlesona 6y ago
      Never heard of a "face pull." Is this something you can do without gym equipment?
      • appletrotter 6y ago
        Doing the motion without weight should be therapeutic, or you could do it with very light dumbbells.
      • samizdis 6y ago
        I'd also like to know what a "face pull" is. My first thought was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurn
      • kemayo 6y ago
        A face pull involves setting up a cable machine so you can pull a weight horizontally towards your face, until the handles you're pulling with wind up on either side of your head. It'd be sort of difficult to do without equipment since it's a cable exercise. If you didn't mind buying some resistance bands, and have a reasonably stable point somewhere at head-height to loop them through as an anchor, you could do that at home. (It's an exercise that you're supposed to do with reasonably light weight, so it wouldn't need to be too sturdy.) EDIT TO ADD: this article has some explicit advice on how to adjust it to do at home on resistance bands: https://athleanx.com/articles/shoulders-for-men/stop-doing-face-pulls-like-this https://athleanx.com/articles/shoulders-for-men/stop-doing-f...
• chrisfinazzo 6y ago
  > “Oh, that’s a nice button. It has a good click.” > “Is it a $550 click?” I asked. > He clicked it a few more times. > “It’s not not a $550 click.” This is the most Gruber line ever. I can just imagine John thinking, 'My work here is done'.
• kohlerm 6y ago
  Looks to me that the only market for these headphones are people who travel a lot (flights/trains) and/or want to show a status symbol. For all other use case the design has some significant flaws. E.g. a higher end headphone such as the Hifiman Sundara has the same weight, better sound (bluetooth is anyway questionable for good sound unless you use something like LDAC), much cheaper (350) and is therefore probably better suited for stationary usage. You can also get similarly priced headphones with bluetooth for stationary use. For mobile use (walking, or even running) something with this weight is definitely too heavy.
  • hombre_fatal 6y ago
    How come everyone's "how is this any better than $model?" example is a wired pair of headphones? If you're going to name drop a direct competitor, at least make sure it's wireless.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• emmanueloga_ 6y ago
  > I’m tempted to preface everything with “Look, I’m not an audiophile…”, but screw that. I’m not an audio expert, but I do know what I like, and I love the way these headphones sound. They make music sound rich and make movies sound very real. It is almost impossible to wear a $550 device on your ears and not become immediately biased about how "real" the sounds are. The better way would be with a double blind test. Would require some sort of device to conceal both the brand and the weight of the damn thing hah. I wouldn't be surprised if the headphones end up being in line with the rest of the existing offer from other brands.
  • Skunkleton 6y ago
    I have a fairly nice headphone setup at my desk (HD650+Schiit Magni/Modi2). I am willing to admit I am biased against other headphones, especially ones that are cheaper than my setup. I am interested to try out Apple's new cans and see how they hold up. They probably won't survive my own biases.
  • _underfl0w_ 6y ago
    > It is almost impossible to wear a $550 device on your ears and not become immediately biased Not saying I disagree about confirmation bias at play - especially given that TFA states at the beginning that they received a pair for review purposes - however I've personally become upset by dropping large amounts of cash on lackluster products before. Not everyone is necessarily susceptible. Some might ask for their money back. In this case, the author didn't even pay the $550 though.
    • IshKebab 6y ago
      But do they get to keep the $550 headphones? That's still a strong motivator. "I just got this really expensive thing - it must be good!" If they have to send them back then I'd say it is fair, but I doubt that is the case.
      • sophiebits 6y ago
        I believe Apple does require their review units back.
• derefr 6y ago
  My read with these is that their real purpose is to serve as a compact spatial-audio surround-sound studio monitor setup — i.e. something you buy to use at a DAW, instead of having to outfit an editing booth with a real 7.1 setup. Making headphones out of metal with magnetically-adhered foam ear-cups makes a lot more sense when several people are going to be sharing them — i.e. a rotation of producers working in the same editing booth, where the headphones belong to the booth, not to the user. Metal is a lot easier to disinfect than plastic, and each user could have their own personal set of earcups, swapped often, without that wearing down any latching hardware. And the weight isn’t a problem if you’re just using them at a desk. High-impedance studio monitors are always heavy! No current Mac can actually work with these headphones, but I don’t think the idea is that everyone is supposed to DAW on their iPads; rather, I presume that these headphones are meant to presage that the next Apple Silicon pro-level Macs will have the right features to support working in regular desktop DAW software with these headphones. (It's curious, though, that they released them well ahead of announcing those new Macs. They could have just put the announcements together.)
  • ogre_codes 6y ago
    Likewise perhaps the next generation Apple TV.
• 7898766786 6y ago
  This is another odd product from Apple. The verbiage makes it sound high end, but they're decidedly not talking to people who already spend a lot of money on headphones. There are some audiophiles using wireless these days, but always lossless. Apple has, to that market's dismay, been using lossy bluetooth. The silence here suggests they still are. It's too expensive for the 'anything that works' crowd but is definitely not an audiophile product. Noise cancellation? Crowded market. Not sure where else this could fit in. It's similar to the Apple watch. On the low end it really doesn't have any competition. Other smart watches look awful in comparison and you get a lot for $400 or whatever they cost. But the high end of their range? I know zero watch people who have swapped their mechanical watch for a high end Apple watch. They might wear a low end one occasionally, but an expensive watch that has to be plugged in daily -- well, that's electronic at all -- is the antithesis of high end watches. More succinctly: An audiophile AirPods is like an Hermes Apple Watch. Cringey, expensive, but will probably find an audience somewhere in the gap between low income and high taste.
  • colinmhayes 6y ago
    This isn't an audiophile product. It's a status symbol marketed at the same people who own an iPhone and beats. People who have money and would like everyone else to know it.
• bane 6y ago
  So what about Beats? Is that all just chopped liver? As soon as Apple realizes they can incorporate batteries into the design, and sell different colored batteries so people can have their own custom "look", they'll suddenly be replaceable and marked up 70%. I can't wait for the $250 AirPod Max hard travel cases to start showing up (with built in charging). But what about expensive charging stands so you don't have to put them in the purse/pouch to turn them off? On the other hand, at least Apple has figured out how to turn commodity computing into an aspirational luxury good instead of an inevitable race to the bottom and low margins. Their recent moves are all intended to give them more control of their experience and extend that strategy out for as long as possible.
• oramit 6y ago
  I'm surprised he didn't mention anything about bluetooth pairing and general ease of use. I have a Sony MDR-100 which is a great middle of the road (price/quality) wireless headset. The biggest gripe I have with it is pairing/connecting to my web of devices and music quality. This is one area that Apple routinely gets right. Bluetooth just works better on Apple devices. I can connect the headset to my windows laptop, play some music, and it will come through muddled. I then switch over to my Macbook Pro and the same music will come through noticeably better. I'm not sure if the Apple Bluetooth drivers are just that much better or if the built in Windows ones are that much worse?
  • marpstar 6y ago
    I've had this problem on Mac. In my case a pair of AirPods sounded really muddy and low quality. macOS was setting them up as the output AND input audio device. The two-way Bluetooth communication eats more bandwidth, hence the lower quality. The solution was to set the audio input to something other than the AirPods. Try setting your audio input to something other than the headset on the Windows machine.
    • kelchm 6y ago
      I honestly don’t understand how this is still an issue with Bluetooth devices in 2020. Why is there no lossless duplex audio profile / codec available at this point?
      • sudosysgen 6y ago
        Because transmitting and processing that data takes too much energy, pretty much. We have the tech to stream lossless equality audio with latencies in the milliseconds, but it takes too much power.
    • oramit 6y ago
      Thanks for the hint. I have tried everything else I could think of the improve the audio quality but not this one. I'll give it a go this afternoon!
  • 6y ago
• rosstex 6y ago
  Let's go see what Head-Fi thinks of them.
• patja 6y ago
  I find it interesting that he refuses to wear wireless headphones while podcasting because he can't tolerate the latency. But he's perfectly fine with it when watching a movie? Lip synch latency drives me crazy once I notice it.
  • ihuman 6y ago
    I thought modern devices delay the video, so it syncs up with the audio? When I'm using Bluetooth headphones on iOS, pressing play doesn't start the video immediately, but it does when I'm not using headphones. The audio stops after the video if I pause it when using Bluetooth headphones.
    • ascagnel_ 6y ago
      Yes, iOS devices will tend to delay the video when playing audio over BT. They also recently issued an update to the HomePod that allows it to do low-latency audio (so you can use it with an AppleTV playing/streaming games), but I think that's using their own proprietary streaming (AirPlay 2) over WiFi, not BT (details on the feature have been scarce and it's relatively new). Interestingly, the low-latency audio breaks apps that provide their own video player (Twitch & YouTube), since they aren't aware of the low latency features and they try to compensate for a system feature on their own.
    • leokennis 6y ago
      Yep. I was an early adopter of wireless audio and in the beginning audio-video sync was a real issue. Since a few years ago, this is a solved problem.
  • sonotmyname 6y ago
    I haven't experienced lip-sync latency with bluetooth watching video in years. Appletv, iPhone, iPad, MacBook - all sync video and BT audio up properly to account for latency.
• ogre_codes 6y ago
  So my takeaway from this article is more or less these are expensive, heavy, great quality, and have great sound. We already know Apple's noise cancellation and transparency mode are pretty damned good from the AirPods Pro. If these were about $200 less, I'd probably have pulled the trigger on these already. At $550, it's a pretty tough pill to swallow when fundamentally there are some damned good ANC headphones for quite a bit less. For the moment anyhow, I don't watch TV on my iPad or phone enough for spatial audio to matter. So the only big features which make it stand above much more affordable competitors is: transparency mode, easy source switching, and overall niceness. Worth $200?? I kind of think no. Maybe I'll revisit this when more reviews are in and the wait time is less than 3 months to order them. Edit: Gruber also mentioned this, but worth noting. They would be a lot more appealing if the Apple TV supported spatial audio.
  • MengerSponge 6y ago
    I imagine transparency mode could be really nice in an office setting, or at an airport or something. Not particularly relevant these days, but I can see that changing over the lifespan of the product.
    • ogre_codes 6y ago
      My father in law has terribly bad hearing. He often watches TV with headphones on. I could see him wearing these with the volume cranked and transparency on so he can hear when other people talk to him. IMO transparency mode is perhaps the most interesting thing about these and the AirPods Pro.
• cambalache 6y ago
  There is something "obscene" about +500 USD headphones. I assume they are very nice, but seeing this kind of news and seeing the heavy suffering in the world right now leaves me with a bad after-taste. Like reading Glamour magazine in a public kitchen.
  • silentsea90 6y ago
    Interesting point! Tech has traditionally had the wonderful property of empowering the rich and the poor similarly - the president of the USA uses the same (technologically) TV, phone etc. as most others in the country. The gap in non tech aspects are widely different between the ultra rich and commoners. Apple's obscenely expensive tech adds a weird wedge in tech between the haves and have nots. I expect the rest of the industry to copy Apple to make affordable versions of this product as has been the case with other products, so it should be a net positive for humanity.
  • aggie 6y ago
    Is it obscene to buy a thousand dollar laptop when 500 dollar laptops are fine for most users? $500 for headphones seems like a very arbitrary standard for what is excessive. A billion people live on a dollar a day. They would consider spending $50 -- or even $15 -- on a restaurant meal to be obscene. It's all relative.
    • cambalache 6y ago
      > Is it obscene to buy a thousand dollar laptop when 500 dollar laptops are fine for most users? It probably is. > $500 for headphones seems like a very arbitrary standard for what is excessive. You could say that about any number. "Raise the minimum wage to 100 USD/h" "That's excessive" "100 for an hourly minimum wage seems like a very arbitrary standard for what is excessive" There is 0 insight there. > They would consider spending $50 -- or even $15 -- on a restaurant meal to be obscene. Yes those dumb poor people cannot see the difference between a 15 USD meal satisfying a human unavoidable necessity and a +500 luxury item. > It's all relative. So Einstenian of you.
  • Tagbert 6y ago
• viktorcode 6y ago
  I don't get why Apple haven't added source independent spatial audio. Like Audeze did with Mobius. The headphones use accelerometer and gyroscope (which AirPods have too I presume), and position the center of the audio to where you are looking. You can re-center it with a button press. And it works pretty well! So, the hardware is all there. Apple could have done the same, bringing spatial audio to whatever place you want.
  • sbarre 6y ago
    I also have the Audeze Mobius headset and I pair it with my Apple TV to watch movies, and it's a really great experience.. I've had these for 2+ years and I tell people "you forget that you're wearing headphones" and that's exactly how Gruber describes it too.. So I'm also really surprised to hear that the spatial/positional stuff on Apple's headphones only works when paired with a compatible device, and it's just phones and tablets. That's... lame.
  • samatman 6y ago
    > You can re-center it with a button press. Like it or not, there's your answer. When was the last time you calibrated something from Apple? They don't do that, it either 'just works' or it doesn't. It's a consistent design philosophy with some stark tradeoffs.
    • viktorcode 6y ago
      To be fair, there’s also an auto-centering mode, which will move sound source to be in front after your head has been still for a few seconds. But I get it, sometimes you want to just put sound somewhere and want it to stay there, and you’ll need button for that in Mobius or additional hardware in AirPods
• whycombagator 6y ago
  Maybe someone has already pointed it out, but Beats pro over ears are $400, are metal construction, weigh 405 grams (heavier than the AirPods Max), aren’t wireless, and I don’t believe they do any of the clever noise cancelling or contain as much hardware as the AirPods Max. Sure, the beats pro are aimed at a different type of user but when comparing the two products is $550 really that much of a surprise? I thought they’d come in cheaper, but on reflection pricing them lower competes with Beats (other than the aforementioned pro model, the Beats Studio3 Wireless Over‑Ears are $350)
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
• eecc 6y ago
  Hmm, anyone worried about the analog gap closing?
• jb1991 6y ago
  Wait... you can't use these with anything other than an iOS device?! edit: only the spatial audio feature works only on iOS
  • hbosch 6y ago
    I believe you can use them as regular Bluetooth headphones, but you can't enjoy the spatial audio. That's my understanding. As with standard AirPods, the philosophy is "better together" with Apple products but, they are not exclusive.
• dmitshur 6y ago
  A question I haven’t seen answered anywhere so far is whether it’s possible to connect these to a computer via a Lightning to USB-C cable to transfer the audio signal in addition to charging. If so, how does the audio quality compare to the wireless Bluetooth operation. Or is that not an option, and the only wired audio support is via the Lightning to 3.5 mm cable, which adds an additional analog conversion into the chain.
  • dmitshur 6y ago
    I've tested this myself, and unfortunately it doesn't seem to be possible. I tested with macOS 11.1.
• triceratops 6y ago
  Does anyone else have a problem with the headband breaking or cracking after a year or two? That's my major concern about buying this style of headphones now. The old-school Walkman headphones were pretty great in comparison - flex all day and they wouldn't break.
• crazygringo 6y ago
  > But: spatial audio only works (for now at least) when the video source is an iPhone or iPad. The AirPods (Pro or Max) know when your head is moving, but the source device needs to be location-aware too... it’s natural to want to use AirPods Max to watch a movie with the full spatial audio experience, as loud as you want, on the biggest screen in your house... But you can’t. You can only get this big room-sized audio experience with the small visual experience of an iPad or iPhone screen. Even with the AirPods Pro, I'm so baffled by this. Why does the source device need to be location-aware? Wouldn't it be enough to just orient the spatial audio to something like your "median" head orientation? Obviously, the vast majority of the time you're watching something, you're looking at the screen. Or for something fixed (like a TV), just click a button during setup while wearing your headphones saying "I'm looking directly at the center of the screen now." I'm curious what I might be missing that makes it so critical for the source device to have an accelerometer and gyroscope. (As a side note, I guess I also don't actually understand how your AirPods know how to orient themselves towards the direction of your device in the first place -- I don't believe they have an internal compass component.)
  • archagon 6y ago
    I don't think it's essential. The Audeze Mobius is able to do this without the source being location-aware. (In fact, IIRC it appears as a 7.1 speaker in your audio settings.)
  • jedimastert 6y ago
    What you need is the location of both, at the same time, in 3D space relative to each other. Just a direction doesn't really work without distance. What would could do, I suppose, is put the headphones on top of wherever "home" is and use that...
  • henriks 6y ago
    Do the AirPods actually orient themselves towards your device, or just assume you're looking at it most of the time? I've noticed that the sound stage seems to recenter if I look away from the device for long enough when listening to some show on my iPad, and doing something else on a computer.
  • 6y ago
• wayeq 6y ago
  And light is the wallet.
• LeicaLatte 6y ago
  I never expected them to be that heavy. Is this meant for the Pro content creator market? Seems so.
• chrischen 6y ago
  > AirPods Pro noise cancellation is very good, for earbuds, but it’s nowhere near as effective as with over-the-ear headphones — if only for the obvious reason that over-the-ear headphones help block noise even when they’re powered off, because they double as physical ear muffs in addition to the active noise cancellation. Is this actually true? I’ve always intuitively thought it was the other way around since the Airpods plug your ears (they’re not actually earbuds). I also subjectively tested both in an Apple store and the AirPods blocked out sounds better.
• jedimastert 6y ago
  I'm going to point something out that MKBHD mentioned in his first impressions I don't see anyone talking about: the "smart case" is the only way to turn the headphones off If you walk away from your desk or whatever without putting them into the case, they'll die after a few hours. There's no of button, they don't turn off when you disconnect from bluetooth, they don't turn off after a certain amount of inactivity. This'd be an instant killer for me.
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  • thinkling 6y ago
    It seems to me that it's a bit more nuanced than that and likely that Apple has more smarts in there than you describe. They have on-head/off-head detection and pause playback when you take them off, so that immediately reduces power draw. Presumably they also have an accelerometer and can go to sleep when they don't move for a few minutes. The case induces a deeper sleep mode that preserves more power, turning off bluetooth, and the processor that's monitoring movement detection.
  • thamer 6y ago
    > If you walk away from your desk or whatever without putting them into the case, they'll die after a few hours. No, that's not what he said. They do enter "deep sleep" mode after a while, even without the case. Source in his video: https://youtu.be/UdfSrJvqY_E?t=458 https://youtu.be/UdfSrJvqY_E?t=458
    • jedimastert 6y ago
      That's a good point that I misunderstood. I'd still find it somewhat problematic that they'd wait 2 hours before going to sleep, but not the "my god how did they not think of this" issue I thought it was
• outworlder 6y ago
  > In some ways, AirPods Max feel quite a bit like a premium Aeron-style modern desk chair — the mesh canopy atop the headband, the telescoping steel stems, the general sturdiness. In some ways, possibly. Here's what's nice about Aeron chairs: they last essentially forever. I got a second hand one for cheap. It's easily a decade old, possibly more, judging by the armrest mechanism (which had a redesign, mine is old). Using it every day for two years, on top of what it already had. Still looks brand spanking new. In case something breaks, I can easily replace any component. There is a healthy replacement parts market. In fact, the person that sold it to me was essentially living off "flipping" Aerons - they would get them wholesale from companies, and then refurbish them. If you are buying them new, they are covered by a 12 YEAR WARRANTY. Parts and labor. The AirPods price would be totally justified if they were even remotely like this. Make the battery user-replaceable (even better if they are swappable, for more run-time) and provide user-replaceable parts, plus a healthy warranty, and this could be potentially the Aeron of the headset world. It isn't, though. The battery is the most egregious issue. Sure, we can understand why Airpods don't have replaceable batteries. Not that it's impossible, but at least it's understandable - they are tiny. It's also possible to understand why Macbook batteries are not easily replaceable - they occupy most of the internal space and are rather fragile. I don't know what Apple's excuse is, this time.
  • arthurcolle 6y ago
    Aereon chairs last forever? The arm rests got janky in mine after 2 years. Maybe they are replaceable...?
    • syntaxing 6y ago
      I'm a bit spoiled since most of jobs use the Aeron chairs, but I definitely used and sat in Aeron chairs that were at least 6 years old with no issues. I had a coworker that had one he bought for like a $100 during the dotcom bust and he still used it 12 years later with no issues (he ran his own business/contractor and WFH for a long time).
    • outworlder 6y ago
      You mean the pads? Those definitely are - that's one of the items you can get from Herman Miller themselves in their online store (vinyl or leather), and there are third party options too. Even if you mean the arm rest mechanism, that's replaceable as well. As are cables, the seat, lumbar support, gas cylinder, you name it.
• aledalgrande 6y ago
  The fact they don't have spatial audio with the latest Apple TV highlights the problem Apple has without Steve: product consistency. This is not the only example: bought a 2020 Macbook Pro, an external Magic keyboard and trackpad and couldn't even connect them because they came with USB-A cables. We had to wait until iPhone 12 (correct me if wrong) to get a phone that charges on the same manufacturer's laptop. It is a mess.
• bt_guy 6y ago
  When these were announced I was interested to see if Apple solved by biggest qualm about bluetooth headphones: low audio quality when using them in duplex mode for calls. This is a limitation of bandwidth in the bluetooth standard AFAIK. Whenever I jump on a Zoom call with my QC35's, they immediately switch to mono audio, at low quality, because the mic is in use. I am not sure this can really be solved at the hardware level, but if anyone could do it, it would definitely be Apple for a $550 price tag, possibly by including two bluetooth radios (one for talk and one for audio). But I haven't seen any mention of this use case, so it seems like I will just have to wait for a new standard and new generation of BT devices.
• james-skemp 6y ago
  > Just how much difference that makes, battery-life wise, compared to just leaving them, unused, out of the case, I can’t say. I’ve only had them a day and I’ve spent a lot of that time wearing them. I realize that this is going to get buried in the 633+ other comments, but you can not adequately review a product like this in one day/24 hours. Give it a week or two, at least to see if they're really better, or just different/new.
• sova 6y ago
  LSTN makes headphones and gives hearing aids to people when you buy some of their cans. Pretty cool. Would like more ethical action paired with luxury products. https://lstnsound.com/ https://lstnsound.com/
• motoxpro 6y ago
  >>> I almost never wear headphones while working at my desk, and for recording podcasts, I want wired headphones, to eliminate all latency. This actually had me dying. That bluetooth latency is just a killer.
• lewich 6y ago
  I bet everyone who will get Airpods Max for free is going to say - oh sure, they are worth 550 and are so nice... But it wont be 100% case when person would pay for them.
• erduck96 6y ago
  I really do not understand buying these when you can get a similarly priced pair of Sennheisers that will be much better quality.