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U.S. will suspend all travel from Europe for 30 days
- joaomacp 7y agoThe UK exception seems weird. Is Trump really playing geopolitical / diplomacy games in this situation?
- RustyRussell 7y agoCan we do better than link to the front page of a news site?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- sahin-boydas 7y agohttps://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-trump-suspends-all-travel-from-europe.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-trump-suspends-a...
- starpilot 7y agoNYTimes has removed paywall for coronavirus stories: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/world/coronavirus-news.ht...
- mikelward 7y agoBetter link: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-make-prime-time-address-coronavirus-wednesday-night-n1155941 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-make-pri...
- leemailll 7y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcsZjfs2cB4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcsZjfs2cB4
- diebeforei485 7y agoHere is the official proclamation: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-nonimmigrants-certain-additional-persons-pose-risk-transmitting-2019-novel-coronavirus/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation...
- cj 7y agoI see in some places it says this includes cargo / shipping. Is that true?
- scottLobster 7y agoWatched the broadcast live, yes it includes cargo shipments. Something tells me the markets are going to react badly to that one
- yibg 7y agoyea I'm guessing the market will be all red again tomorrow.
- banana_giraffe 7y agoSafe bet, it feel almost 3.75% after hours right after the announcement.
- jmspring 7y agoPorts are basically already at a standstill. I personally feel this policy will get altered as the markets tank further.
- wbl 7y agoForget markets: we make drugs here they need there and vice versa.
- wpietri 7y agoIncluding cargo doesn't make much sense to me. Did they include a justification for this? In contrast, the CDC's take is that "in general, because of poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, there is likely very low risk of spread from products or packaging that are shipped over a period of days or weeks at ambient temperatures." -- https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html
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- halfmatthalfcat 7y agoSeems like this is too little too late, cats already out of the bag in the US.
- refurb 7y agoIt's all about flattening the curve at this point. You can do your best to identify those infected and have them self-quarantine, but if the gates are open and infected people are streaming into your country, you're not going to get far.
- zbraniecki 7y agoUgh, USA is at the moment likely on level with Europe. The idea that this will prevent "infected people streaming into USA" is uninformed. This step limits transfer both ways, between two regions that both have similar level of infection spread. It may help both sides contain the virus, but it won't limit the amount of infected people in the USA on its own. Please, be careful about the language you use, the way you wrote the sentence promotes FUD.
- refurb 7y agobut it won't limit the amount of infected people in the USA on its own I never said it would. By stopping flights, you're removing one potential source of new infections.
- KarlKemp 7y agoYou're also eliminating one potential source of infected people leaving the country before symptoms show. Assuming prevalence is equal in the US and Europe, you gain exactly nothing. (Op already said as much. Your answer reminds me of my Grandmother: "I know God doesn't exist, but it can't hurt to go to church.")
- refurb 7y agoThe presumption is you have better tracking over your own citizens than people coming in.
- starpilot 7y agoChances of Europe reciprocating?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- floetic 7y agoWouldn't that make UK the next hotspot? People will travel to and from UK to get to USA. Unless UK restricts travel from the rest of Europe.
- danso 7y agoNot that this ban makes a lot of sense, but not including the UK makes even less sense, considering they've already reported 400 cases (compared to the ~1,200 in the U.S.) edit: to be fair, maybe the administration would've preferred to just ban travel from Italy. But I'm guessing it's not possible to restrict travel from just one member of the EU.
- Scoundreller 7y agoAnd the UK is already the most popular destination in Europe for Americans. ~50% greater than #2 France. I've no idea why other than language. https://www.statista.com/chart/18742/most-popular-destinations-with-us-travelers/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18742/most-popular-destinatio...
- tssva 7y agoI'm sure it has nothing to do with Trump owning golf courses in the UK.
- johannes1234321 7y agoAlso doesn't make considering that Heathrow is a major hub for Europeans to travel to Europe. Only reasoning I can see is political - UK did Brexit. For limiting the spreading this seems like a weird exception.
- viraptor 7y agoUK is already a hotspot. 100 confirmed cases in London (as of 11 Mar) means we should expect 10x that in practice. They just started later than some other countries.
- azernik 7y agoThe ban is for people who have been in the Schengen zone within the last 14 days, not just for direct arrivals from those states.
- o_p 7y agoWhat if.. You travel to UK by land and take a plane to the USA?
- fluxem 7y agoHow are you planning to travel to UK by land? It's an island!
- Avshalom 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Tunnel
- corel_ 7y agoYou can walk from France to the UK through the Chunnel, technically.
- nraynaud 7y agothat's a 26km tunnel frequented by bullet trains, take some water and a helmet.
- Reason077 7y agoYes, its dangerous and illegal but it's been done! https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/22/sudanese-refugee-walked-through-channel-tunnel-pleads-guilty-abdul-haroun https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/22/sudanese-ref...
- imadethis 7y agoChunnel notwithstanding, Northern Ireland is part of the UK.
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- breakyerself 7y agoClosing the gate after the cows have already gotten out.
- duxup 7y agoGenerally it is about slowing the cows.
- bdcravens 7y agoMore like closing the gate so the coyotes don't keep attacking your cows.
- ceejayoz 7y agoExcept there are already dozens of coyotes inside the fence.
- bdcravens 7y agoExactly. Easier to hunt and kill the interlopers if you can prevent more from coming in.
- ceejayoz 7y agoWithout far more serious containment measures within the United States, this is a meaningless move. A dribble of people coming in from the EU when it's already in dozens of US states isn't going to meaningfully change the numbers.
- creddit 7y agoIf you had to fight 5 coyotes or 10, which would you choose?
- ceejayoz 7y agoThere's every reason to believe the number of coyotes is similar on both sides of the fence.
- knzhou 7y agoI get that they excluded the UK for diplomatic reasons, but it's literally only a few days behind the rest of Europe in terms of infection count, which means this will have almost no effect. I actually think banning travel from China months ago was a good call, but by analogous reasoning, the right time to ban travel from Europe (including the UK) was last week.
- ajross 7y ago> the right time to ban travel from Europe (including the UK) was last week. The US had active uncontained clusters, and was known to have them, two weeks ago. Once that's true, there's no way that mere travel numbers are going to move that needles significantly. Again: we banned travel from China and it was too late already. This does not work. And I'm horrified at the number of people on this site that don't see that.
- knzhou 7y agoBanning travel isn't a magic cure-all that guarantees zero cases, it just lowers the initial caseload. That's extremely important because exponential growth is extremely slow in the beginning -- it takes as long to go from 1 to 100 as 100 to 10,000. If banning travel reduces 100 starter cases to 1, you double the time you have.
- ska 7y agoProblem being, best information is there is no solid numbers on initial case load in the US, for structural reasons. So while your argument may be correct, it may be too late for this to make a difference (perhaps with equal likelihood, but we don't know.)
- knzhou 7y agoYeah, I'd agree with that. At this point it would help a tiny bit, but only because it slightly decreases links between people, like a social distancing measure does.
- dsfdsfsdfasd 7y agoNot an emergency, and we don't need testing, but hey furriners....
- Scoundreller 7y agoMeanwhile, the US Dept of State's Travel Advisories haven't really been recommending any restrictions on travel to Europe. France is the 2nd most impacted country in Europe, and the DoS' last update was 11 months ago where their primary concern was terrorism. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/france-travel-advisory.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/... Only Italy is currently at "Reconsider Travel" or "Do Not Travel" for the Northern regions.
- sitkack 7y agoAt least they are consistent. Following at a far enough distance gives you 20/20 hindsight for those you follow, but only if you can internalize the lesson fast enough. Otherwise you just slo-mo replicate their same mistakes.
- amiga_500 7y agoLet me just explain this to my broker, see if they will unwind after my stops hit...
- thedance 7y agoStonks already hit the downside circuit breakers.
- scurvy 7y agoNot sure what you're looking at, but the S&P500 e-mini futures are still trading. No breakers were hit.
- vanattab 7y agoHe is referring to the other day when trading was stop for 15 mins
- arthurcolle 7y agoNo I don't think so. See this other poster's comment, 15 minutes after yours (synchronicity!) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22553350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22553350
- 1e-9 7y agoYes, the E-mini S&P 500 Futures March contract (ESH0) did hit a Velocity Logic circuit breaker at 9:13:12 PM ET, soon after Trump announced the travel restrictions. The halt lasted for 10 seconds and then trading resumed. It's down 4.4% now and is getting close to the low price limit for the day, which could halt trading completely until the CME lowers the limit at 9:30 AM ET.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- starpilot 7y agoDoes this mean with a round trip, you could be allowed to fly to Europe and be trapped there? Edit: apparently not, looks like it just applies to foreign nationals https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- predakanga 7y agoIn my experience, airports have been pretty good about checking for potential issues like that and warning passengers at check-in. That experience doesn't include American airports though, so YMMV.
- mrtksn 7y agoThis awfully sounds like politically motivated than medically motivated. Edit: Apparently it’s limited to Schengen Zone: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting...
- partiallypro 7y agoHow so? This will undoubtedly push the world into recession, how does that help Trump?
- mvid 7y agoJust because he can’t anticipate the repercussions doesn’t mean it wasn’t politically motivated
- allovernow 7y agoDo you really think some moron bumbled his way into the most powerful office in the world? Have you stopped to think about how unlikely something like that is? You may not agree with his style (I don't) or his personality (hate it) but the guy has to be minimally intelligent to make it as far as he has. At the very least he knows how to work a crowd and spot opportunity.
- ceejayoz 7y agoIt's entirely possible to have a charismatic moron. Political instincts and intelligence aren't the same thing.
- godzulu 7y agothe previous President was just that...a charismatic moron.
- kaiabwpdjqn 7y ago
- unlinked_dll 7y agoRegardless of the ability of people to travel to the UK or Canada and get here (which people have done for a long time with other nations we don't take kindly to) it's absolutely going to reduce the number of people who will travel across the pond. Which is the goal, reduce infection rates. My concern is how economies are going to respond to the US being cut off from Continental ports for a month, which as far as I can tell hasn't happened since U boats were in open waters. Can anyone comment on supply chains that rely on Europe to source goods? I know medical grade steel comes from over there, but I don't know what else. Edit: apparently the president misspoke.
- nugget 7y agoThe situation in Europe will be much worse a month from now than it is today, unfortunately. I'd bet on this ban lasting closer to 90 days than 30.
- roywiggins 7y agoThe situation here will be much worse in 30 days, too.
- corel_ 7y agoI'm not sure where this level of panic is coming from. Numbers are about to spike everywhere pretty much no matter what anybody does, because better testing and funding has become available. Quarantining an entire continent, and even worse than this badly doing it, seems to be an astonishing overreaction. The average age of death for coronavirus victims is 83. The mortality rate seems to be as low as 0.6% in South Korea or as high as 5% in Italy. Italy is especially vulnerable because it has the oldest population in Europe which is one of the factors that is leading to the 5% figure from there. It is not an End of Days zombie apocalypse. I recently watched a speech by a US mayor which essentially said that the panic over Corona is going to do much more damage to people than the actual virus and I tend to agree. Simple quarantining measures mixed with best practices for infection control until we have more information about the virus seems perfectly fine. Blowing up the global economy is complete overkill and is a typical move from an administration whose response to topics are either to ignore them or sledgehammer them.
- nikolay 7y agoKinda useless as people can fly to Mexico sneak in thru San Diego. I can't believe in 2020 we still don't have a simple and effective reusable respirator, which evaporates all aerosols and turns them into safe to breathe vapors. I also think the ban now is good, but 30 days will not be enough as things are exponentially getting worse. Even if we reach the infliction point, this is not gonna end in 30, 60, or even 90 days.
- xwdv 7y agoI know people will try to come up with all sorts of edge cases to figure out how to get from Europe to the US, but the fact is if you lie about where you’ve been you will likely end up in federal prison. Don’t try it, wait 30 days.
- JDiculous 7y agoThis is insane. What are the chances of this happening for Asia? I'm currently in Asia and it would be unfortunate to not be able to return home.
- wheelerwj 7y agoWe're okay for now. Im in SE asia and i think im in an okay place to wait things out if necessary. I don't see them restricting the rest of asia specifically unless they close it ALL down.
- freeplay 7y agoI could see them closing the borders completely if things continue to progress.
- taiwanboy 7y agoUS is closer in blood to Europe and it shut down travel form Europe. Asia would be an easy/quick call for this administration.
- JDiculous 7y agoWhy haven't they done it in Asia yet then since Coronavirus originated from and is more severe there?
- taiwanboy 7y agoExcluding China (which they wisely banned early) and South Korea (one city daegu is the center and majority of infection) there is only japan with 639 cases. Europe has close to 20,000 cases. But if an Asian country’s cases quickly spikes, pretty sure Asia will be shut down in travel to US
- anigbrowl 7y agoThey had no screening for incoming travelers at airports just a couple of days ago - no health questions or temperature checks, nothing. And now a 30 day ban? This won't solve the problem, but it will vastly exacerbate the economic disruption.
- jopsen 7y agoIt won't solve the problem, but it might be big enough a move that people realize now is the time to minimize contact as much as possible.
- moosey 7y agoI feel like there are some particular cultural attributes in the United States that make this useless at this point. The United States has a very individualistic attitude. Sure, we can pause travel from Europe, but the current administration is very anti-europe. Can we pause travel in the US? I strongly doubt that we can effectively given the strong anti-expertise attitudes as well. My guess is that the United States will become a more major hot spot for the virus than other locales. It will spread rapidly and the supply hoarding and sad state of our medical system will mean that in a few months, other nations will be rejecting flights from the US. It's a prediction, a guess, but there are aspects of our culture that just makes it seem very likely. I'm not going to make any more predictions than the idea that we'll have more cases per capita than any other developed nation. It's be interesting when I'm proven incorrect over time.
- maxerickson 7y agoThere are lots of individualists that will flout advice, but there's also lots of people that will isolate themselves in quite a paranoid fashion. I think there's more of the latter.
- paxys 7y agoMore or less doesn't matter. It's a classic case of "one person can ruin it for everyone", which is why in many countries there is strict enforcement rather than just recommendations.
- maxerickson 7y agoIt isn't a classic case of one person can ruin it for everyone. When I choose not to go to the bar, the guy at the bar that ignored the advice about not going out in public still doesn't infect me. So less dramatically: individuals can (and will!) reduce their exposure to infected people that make poor choices. Of course the more people that do the right thing the better, but it isn't a situation where the outcome is controlled just by the worst actors.
- Scoundreller 7y agoFrom the NYT article: "He [Trump] said he would instruct the Treasury Department to “defer tax payments without interest or penalties for certain individuals and businesses negatively impacted.” Why deferments for businesses? Don't they only pay tax on profits?
- Mountain_Skies 7y agoProbably is targeted more at small businesses who might have trouble getting all of their bookkeeping and records in order in time to file in a few weeks. If this somehow benefits large corporations, they will no doubt take full advantage of the situation.
- zaroth 7y agoIt’s an interest free loan without the hassle of doing much paperwork.
- tdhoot 7y agoOn last year/quarter's profits, which they might need for opex now.
- marknadal 7y agoDoes this mean return flights too? Or just travel originating from Europe and going inbound to USA?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Causality1 7y agoIs there a point to this? The virus is already everywhere.
- andbberger 7y agoYes. The point is to flatten the curve. https://www.flattenthecurve.com/ https://www.flattenthecurve.com/
- KarlKemp 7y agoThat has nothing to do with the question. Travel to and from doesn't lower the number of infections in the US, assuming prevalence is about equal on the two continents.
- andbberger 7y agoThat was a direct response to the question. It's not the total number that matters, it's the rate.
- anigbrowl 7y agoDepends on how imaginative/paranoid you are. It sure seems odd that this week has included an oil price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia, a pandemic declaration, and now the biggest disruption of international travel/commerce since WW2. https://twitter.com/RusEmbUSA/status/1237048071223160833 https://twitter.com/RusEmbUSA/status/1237048071223160833
- jmull 7y ago(In the USA) Is this going to accomplish anything? The virus is already here and has been spreading out-of-control for quite a while now. The only reason the numbers are still so low here is the incredibly low number of tests being done.
- thedogeye 7y agoDeaths are also much lower in the US.
- ajross 7y agoOnly vs. China, Iran and Italy. We're within a factor of two (that is, about 5-6 days) of everyone else. A 5-6 day head start is not enough window to save ourselves with a travel ban. And just like Italy went from "contained" to a country-wide lockdown in the space of a week, so will we at this point. Those tens of thousands of cases are incubating right now and will emerge in the coming days. This travel ban does nothing.
- theferalrobot 7y ago>Only vs. China, Iran and Italy. What are you on about? We have fewer deaths than far more countries than that (France and Spain for instance) and per capita we are doing even better. The US has fewer deaths than the following countries per capita: Italy, Iran, China, S. Korea, Spain, France, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Albania, Lebanon, Netherlands, Belgium, Panama, Ireland, Iraq, Bulgaria, Japan, Australia, UK Country Population and coronavirus numbers can be pulled here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
- martinpw 7y ago>> Only vs. China, Iran and Italy. > What are you on about? We have fewer deaths than far more countries than that You edited out the second sentence. The full quote is: Only vs. China, Iran and Italy. We're within a factor of two (that is, about 5-6 days) of everyone else. which is accurate.
- bigmattystyles 7y agoHonest question, is the government allowed to prevent US citizens from returning to the US?
- jsjohnst 7y agoGenerally speaking, no. But there are edge cases.
- cddotdotslash 7y agoNo, and they're not. It applies to foreign nationals (i.e. non citizens). They can, however, enforce a quarantine when citizen returns.
- microtherion 7y agoI don't think so, for reasons of both national and international law. However, the US is not necessarily obliged to allow any particular vessel into the country.
- supernova87a 7y agoFrom what I read in WSJ, it's not a ban on travel by anyone, only on Europeans (whatever that comes to be defined as). Anyone found any more clarification? In one case that might mean the cessation of flights altogether, in the other case some flights still might fly?
- Jommi 7y agohttps://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting...
- brookside 7y agoNBA season suspended after an Utah Jazz player, Rudy Golbert, preliminarily tests positive. This shortly following Golbert jokingly (ugh) rubbing all of the mics at an interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qxtxIVtOZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qxtxIVtOZE
- yellowapple 7y agoI was expecting the Curb Your Enthusiasm credits by the end there.
- fudged71 7y agoThat guy did a little joke which turned into shutting down the whole league. What the hell
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- wdb 7y agoWhy is the U.K. not included? This is so weird; it's such a mess in the UK too.
- Reason077 7y agoExcluding the UK hints that this is, at least in part, politically motivated. In terms of risk the UK is no different to other European countries. We are certainly not immune to coronavirus, and there are currently no restrictions on travel between the UK and the continent.
- petecox 7y agoUK (and Ireland) are outside Schengen. Even if they don't restrict it to British passport holders travelling to the USA, it's still arguably easier to screen for the virus through one departure point than, say, 30.
- true_religion 7y agoThere are many more flights terminating in the UK than any other European country. Plus, American students studying abroad in the UK have yet to return home.
- Reason077 7y agoThese seem like arguments for including the UK in the flight ban.
- smacktoward 7y agoTrump likes Boris Johnson. I’m honestly not sure there’s anything more to it than that.
- pseudolus 7y agoThat is bizarre. As of today, the UK has 459 cases and the US has 1311. The UK population is approximately 20% of the US population so on a per capita basis coronavirus is more prevalent in the UK than in the US. The optics on this are horrible and will be construed as showing more of a concern with political theater than evidence based decision making.
- BryantD 7y agoImportant updates: a) This does not apply to US citizens or their family members[1]. b) This does not apply to cargo[2]. It appears that the President misspoke regarding point 2. [1] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting.... [2] https://twitter.com/AnaSwanson/status/1237921160500830208 https://twitter.com/AnaSwanson/status/1237921160500830208
- Jommi 7y agoThankfully it was just a small error... Also looks like it won't affect outbound flights either?
- jessriedel 7y agoOutbound flights are going to get a hell of a lot more expensive if all the planes have to return to the US empty.
- Jommi 7y agoWould assume that any flights booked in under 30 days before travel will be expensive no matter what the situation.
- elbasti 7y agoWhat's the endgame for the pandemic? Assume all governments act more-or-less correctly; people self quarantine, companies switch to remote work, etc. When does the world get back to normal? In two years after a vaccine is developed? This summer? Ever?
- earthtourist 7y ago1. Limit the infection rate as much as possible for the next 1-2 years. 2. Develop a cure (vaccine or therapy). 3. Return to our normal way of life. 4. Massively revamp our preparations for the next one.
- Mountain_Skies 7y agoIf it doesn't have the power to re-infect (which isn't known yet), then once herd immunity is achieved, things should return somewhat to normal.
- lordlic 7y agoThe payroll tax holiday idea is bonkers. The people most in need of help here are hourly or gig workers who are told to stay home from work or who get sick and can't work. Paying less taxes on nonexistent wages doesn't help. It seems like the administration is more interested in propping up the markets than actually addressing the health crisis and its human costs. Also, eliminating copays on coronavirus treatment is nice, but it's hard not to notice the glaring omission of anything to help the 9% of Americans who are uninsured.
- enraged_camel 7y agoThey aren't eliminating copays on treatment. Only testing. https://twitter.com/owermohle/status/1237922717699014658 https://twitter.com/owermohle/status/1237922717699014658
- mnm1 7y agoYeah it's clearly a token move to pretend like they're doing something. The cv19 test is free but all the other tests they will undoubtedly and necessarily run before that are not. And if you end up in the er as a poor person, you'll likely go bankrupt or take a massive hit even with insurance. That'll keep people away. Who knows how long it'll be before we have massive testing like Korea. Maybe never.
- allsystemsgo 7y agoJust because CV19 is a thing now doesn’t mean the US magically has Medicare for all.
- kelnos 7y agoNo, but it is in the nation's interest to get as many people tested as possible (assuming we can solve the pesky test kit shortage). If people aren't getting tested because they can't afford it, that hurts the country just as much as it could potentially hurt them.
- justinzollars 7y agoMy brother is stuck in Europe
- jjice 7y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22552902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22552902
- justinzollars 7y agoThanks - though I think they added a 14 day period that he will need to self quarentine
- forgingahead 7y agoThis is late, but still necessary. But still not enough. Travel WITHIN the US must be restricted as well. Overly strict measures now can still help bend the curve -- the economy will recover.
- rwcarlsen 7y agoI am beginning to strongly suspect that supply chain disruption caused by government decisions is going to cause way more damage to the world than this virus ever could have on its own. I think more people making these decisions could benefit from a good deep reading of Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations".
- pcurve 7y agoI'm certain most government knows the economic consequences will be pretty severe. However, given the panic this has already created in public, and much higher mortality rate than seasonal flu, they cannot simply ride it out. I'm sure they have weighed their options, and have opted to take more certain shorter term hit vs gamble with uncertain longer term hit.
- 627467 7y agoimmunesystem can also kill. in fact, one of the ways covid19 kills is through cytokine storm, a immune overreaction. I don't understand why people seem so sure this is not a case of social immune overreaction.
- CydeWeys 7y agoDon't underestimate how costly it is to society to have a bunch of people die. Not taking this seriously will kill a lot more people than taking it seriously.
- logicchains 7y agoThe worst case of the virus is around 2% of people die, mostly elderly. The worst case of "taking it seriously" is an economic collapse in which a double-digit percentage of people die because global supply chains have fallen apart and there is no longer enough food to feed everybody.
- logicchains 7y agoIt seems most of the analysis of these decisions is only looking at the benefits and not the costs; it's impossible to make rational decisions that way.
- leemailll 7y agoThis might hit those airlines the greatest, we might see some of them file for bankruptcy besides flybe
- brrrrr1 7y agothat’s right - don't ban the uk where many people have traveled from italy and the rest of the world unhindered. because the virus cares about politics and trump’s shenanigans. folks in the us - i really hope everyone poor and rich gets treatment when necessary, for free.
- gravelc 7y agoToo little, too late. Most of Australia's external cases seem to be coming from the US (e.g. Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson), which indicates tens of thousands of undiagnosed incidences there (even accounting for selection bias). Urgent social distancing seems to be the best approach to maintaining a functional health system now.
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- NotZachari 7y agoI see loads of people saying that we're beyond containment, and they're correct. However, it does slow infection rates to some degree. That allows us the time to try to learn more about how it behaves, how repeated cases impact people who aren't currently affected as much, and find ways to combat it. That's a positive.
- Jommi 7y agoThe link should be changed to: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting... ..for official government info, and not a speech by an orange dude or news sites hungry for clicks.
- 627467 7y agounpopular opinion: personally I'm not optimistic that any good lesson will come out of covid19 outbreak. every recent viral outbreak seem to have generated more and more overreaction that will not only seriously bring in the economic crash that so many have been asking for but also generate resistance to actually serious future outbreaks.
- bratawurst 7y agoThis is insane. I haven’t been really scared of the pandemic yet, but if this is the response, now, I’m terrified. Changing the number of infected people entering the community does nothing when we already have transmission happening within the community at some fixed rate which is determined by the community. “Flattening the curve” of an exponential function means changing the rate of growth, not the fucking constant offset. It’s basic math. Innocent people will die off this incompetence. I’m a little lost for words.
- orange_fritter 7y agoI really lost heart when Trump addressed the cruise ship incident with "I don't want my numbers to go up." Just manipulation of the numbers to reduce fear/keep stocks up. But if the virus is a threat, it will become undeniable. I don't normally say this, but I hope Trump's right about the whole thing. Wash your hands and you'll be fine, right? We'll see in a month. Maybe a week.
- logicchains 7y agoBut even the tinest of improvements is better than no improvements, because we all know the most important thing when making decisions is to only consider the possible benefits and never consider the cost!
- arbitrary_name 7y agoWho's going to die because they can't fly between the US and Europe?
- bratawurst 7y agoIf healthcare capacity in the US becomes overwhelmed by an exponential function, every moment wasted by officials now, while the numbers are still low enough to do something real about, will turn out to have been a moment responsible for many thousands of needless deaths. I hope your flippancy turns out to be warranted. I just can’t get there.
- logicchains 7y ago
- ranieuwe 7y agoOfficial proclamation here https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-nonimmigrants-certain-additional-persons-pose-risk-transmitting-2019-novel-coronavirus/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation...
- actionowl 7y agoWhy is none of this mentioned on travel.state.gov ? Is none of this official yet?
- wnoise 7y agohttps://twitter.com/DHS_Wolf/status/1237915985476227078 https://twitter.com/DHS_Wolf/status/1237915985476227078 Note that this technically covers "having been in Europe in the last 14 days", not merely "coming directly from Europe". Enforcement of the latter is much easier, of course, and I'm sure some people will manage to sneak through by lying or customs not asking. Also note that it's the Schengen zone, thus excluding both UK and Ireland. Finally, it only excludes foreign nationals. US citizens should be able to return, but there's nothing stopping them from being tested and/or quarantined on return.
- jungletime 7y agoJoe Rogan has a guess on his podcast recently that is an expert. This virus spreads through air very easily. Huge numbers of the virus develop in the throat before symptoms appear. A person sitting at the front of the bus, can infect people many rows back. The takeaway. Avoid all crowded places. Buses, Stores, Metro. And places that recirculate air, such as cruise ships, airplanes. It will come like a wave, many many people will get infected at once, quickly. 1-3% will die. Eventually virus will run out of people not already immune to it, and the spread will subside.
- jupp0r 7y agoDoes anybody know how temporary work visas are handled? I’m on an L1-B and thankfully rebooked my flights 2 weeks ago when in a business trip to Germany (in anticipation of something like this). Edit: I’m back in the US with my wife and kids, wasn’t clear enough above.
- nalllar 7y agohey mods, the link should be changed to the white house proclamation, news sites are having some trouble with accuracy. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-nonimmigrants-certain-additional-persons-pose-risk-transmitting-2019-novel-coronavirus/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation...
- acoderhasnoname 7y agoHow is this going to help? They can get in from Africa, Canada, Mexico, India? Ban them all later???
- tempestn 7y agoThe ban is on those who have traveled to Europe in the past 14 days.
- akmarinov 7y agoAll travel to Europe’s Schengen area according to Homeland’s announcement. You can still fly from the UK, Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia.
- samstave 7y agoHow many stocks (and which) did the Trump-Kushner Crime family have time to short in prep for this?
- peter303 7y agoIt was refreshing in Feb to visit a National Park without have 5 Chinese buses pull along side you.
- rtkaratekid 7y agoSorry I just had a good laugh at this. Pretty dark humor in these times... but that just sounds great.
- jackson1way 7y agoJust de-boarded and re-boarded an aircraft going to Europe from NY because of this „small“ missing „detail“ in the initial announcement. 4h delay and the people who de-boarded the plane initially, are not re-boarding because they probably left the airport by now, not knowing they had wrong information. Ouch.
- jbigelow76 7y ago4h delay and the people who de-boarded the plane initially, are not re-boarding because they probably left the airport by now, not knowing they had wrong information. For those that live in the US and de-boarded because of this "missing detail", I wouldn't be surprised if in a week or two they don't feel like they dodged a massive bullet.
- MegaButts 7y ago> I wouldn't be surprised if in a week or two they don't feel like they dodged a massive bullet. I'm guessing you didn't mean this to be a double negative? In other words: > I would be surprised if in a week or two they feel like they dodged a massive bullet but I suspect you meant the opposite?
- jbigelow76 7y agoCorrect; it's an incorrectly worded, flippant, emotional response to my view of my country's (the US) response to the crisis and not a statement that those that are/were travelling to Europe shouldn't.
- goodside 7y agoThis is known as “negative concord” and shows up often in colloquial English. While popularly associated with African American and Appalachian dialects, it actually occurs almost everywhere English is spoken. (E.g. Pink Floyd’s chorus, “We don’t need no education / We don’t need no thought control”.) Even in formal writing, double negatives are common using “nor”. Consider the sentence, “He is not satisfied at all with the recommendations of Mr. Trump, nor with those of Mrs. Clinton.” If you change “nor” to “or”, the meaning remains identical. This shows the negative “nor” reiterates rather inverts the prior negation. Note the “nor” version is no less formal or professional in tone because of its double negative. Negative concord even has precedent in Shakespeare: “I never was, nor never will be” from Richard III. Most would suggest avoiding negative concord in a formal writing (excepting “nor”), but colloquially it’s been part of the language for hundreds of years. In a conversational context, the line you quoted is standard English with or without the “don’t”.
- zuminator 7y agoIs there anywhere in the US where we are doing random testing of residents to determine what the real infection rate is here? From all I can see we're currently just adding up the number of people who have come in with symptoms and tested positive instead of getting a real handle on what percentage of the population is infected. The CDC website right now says that there are 938 total cases.[1] That's laughable. At this point I'd sooner believe 93,800 or 938,000 than 938. Oh wait: "Now that states are testing and reporting their own results, CDC’s numbers are not representative of all testing being done nationwide." OK, so nobody's keeping up with the totals? Is that what I'm reading? [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html
- Polylactic_acid 7y agoI would think we be able to estimate fairly correctly. I assume pretty much everyone who dies from it would end up in a hospital and counted. And since we know the death rate, we know for every 1 death there were x who have it and will/have recovered.
- 0xBA5ED 7y agoExcept the death rate is determined by deaths/cases, which relies on counting the cases.
- Slartie 7y agoThere have already been missed deaths that were later attributed to Covid-19 in the US. Since the fatality profile of Covid-19 closely matches the fatality profile you expect anyway (people are more likely to die when they are old or have preconditions), it is actually a problem to get reliable death counts. Fatalities must have been tested, or tested retroactively, for correct attribution, and since the US currently isn't even close to doing proper testing of living patients, you can probably add two and two together by yourself.
- learnstats2 7y agoThe death rate is likely to vary depending on the strain and on the ability to treat effectively, both of which may change over time.
- m0zg 7y agoAll those panicking on the account of economic downturn need to remember that the US need not run faster than the bear, economically, it only needs to run faster than the other guy. Which it will. For starters, the US has 16% of population over the age of 65, compared to e.g. 21% in Germany, 22% in Italy and 20% in France. Population density is much lower here. There are 2.5x ICU beds per capita as well, and more diagnostic equipment, too. A lot fewer people use public transport. Strong containment measures were also taken _earlier_ in the infection cycle than e.g. in Italy. I mean, sure there's some well publicized incompetence at CDC and FDA, that happens, but to say that the US is _more fucked_ than e.g. continental Europe is just not in alignment with reality. Later this week the improved test kits should arrive en masse, and then we'll see how bad the situation is. Right now it's just pure conjecture and panic.
- ablekh 7y agoUnfortunately, too little, too late, indeed. Too late for obvious reasons - handling a crisis in a reactive way and with a serious delay is levels of magnitude more difficult than to prevent one in the first place. Too little, because IMO travel restrictions should have been set up much earlier and, more importantly, much wider than China and Europe (i.e., Schengen Area - BTW, excluding UK is ridiculous: viruses don't care about politics, do they?). By the time people realized all seriousness of the situation, there have been 100s and even 1000s of known cases in countries like Japan and South Korea. As far as I know, travel from those areas has not been restricted at the time. I certainly understand that all that implies a huge global economic and mobility impact. However, I believe that people's health and well-being is incomparably much more important than any potential economic, lifestyle and other adverse effects from making such hard decisions. Having enough information, advice and warnings from health professionals and scientists at the time, not limiting international travel (as the very major channel of this viral transmission) early enough and comprehensively enough is extremely irresponsible, whereas doing so would have been an act of true leadership.
- dmje 7y agoWe're facing this thing with at least a modicum of sensibleness in our government. You guys, with that f*tard at the wheel? Jebus, best of luck to you all. I really hope stuff sorts out.
- D-Coder 7y ago"We" is which country? (Other than that, I agree with you.)
- verst 7y agoAn executive order is not in effect until published in the federal register. Whatever is published there is what actually matters. As of now this executive order has not been published. You can check here: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/search?conditions%5Bagencies%5D%5B%5D=executive-office-of-the-president&conditions%5Bpublication_date%5D%5Bgte%5D=03%2F11%2F2020 https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/search?conditions%...
- anigbrowl 7y agoUnderrated comment ^^
- verst 7y agoI assume the following [1] will be filed in the Federal Register beginning with this paragraph that starts with: NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States and then starting with the words by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America [1]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-nonimmigrants-certain-additional-persons-pose-risk-transmitting-2019-novel-coronavirus/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation...
- verst 7y agoHere is the full text that will likely be published in the Federal Register. Double-check when it has been published. > by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including sections 212(f) and 215(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f) and 1185(a), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, hereby find that the unrestricted entry into the United States of persons described in section 1 of this proclamation would, except as provided for in section 2 of this proclamation, be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and that their entry should be subject to certain restrictions, limitations, and exceptions. I therefore hereby proclaim the following: > Section 1. Suspension and Limitation on Entry. The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the Schengen Area during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States is hereby suspended and limited subject to section 2 of this proclamation. > Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry. > (a) Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to: > (i) any lawful permanent resident of the United States; > (ii) any alien who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident; > (iii) any alien who is the parent or legal guardian of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident is unmarried and under the age of 21; > (iv) any alien who is the sibling of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that both are unmarried and under the age of 21; > (v) any alien who is the child, foster child, or ward of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, or who is a prospective adoptee seeking to enter the United States pursuant to the IR-4 or IH-4 visa classifications; > (vi) any alien traveling at the invitation of the United States Government for a purpose related to containment or mitigation of the virus; > (vii) any alien traveling as a nonimmigrant pursuant to a C-1, D, or C-1/D nonimmigrant visa as a crewmember or any alien otherwise traveling to the United States as air or sea crew; > (viii) any alien > (A) seeking entry into or transiting the United States pursuant to one of the following visas: A-1, A-2, C-2, C-3 (as a foreign government official or immediate family member of an official), E-1 (as an employee of TECRO or TECO or the employee’s immediate family members), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1 through NATO-4, or NATO-6 (or seeking to enter as a nonimmigrant in one of those NATO categories); or > (B) whose travel falls within the scope of section 11 of the United Nations Headquarters Agreement; > (ix) any alien whose entry would not pose a significant risk of introducing, transmitting, or spreading the virus, as determined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, through the CDC Director or his designee; > (x) any alien whose entry would further important United States law enforcement objectives, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their respective designees, based on a recommendation of the Attorney General or his designee; > (xi) any alien whose entry would be in the national interest, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their designees; or > (xii) members of the U.S. Armed Forces and spouses and children of members of the U.S. Armed Forces. > (b) Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to affect any individual’s eligibility for asylum, withholding of removal, or protection under the regulations issued pursuant to the legislation implementing the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, consistent with the laws and regulations of the United States. > Sec. 3. Implementation and Enforcement. (a) The Secretary of State shall implement this proclamation as it applies to visas pursuant to such procedures as the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, may establish. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall implement this proclamation as it applies to the entry of aliens pursuant to such procedures as the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State, may establish. > (b) Consistent with applicable law, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Transportation, and the Secretary of Homeland Security shall ensure that any alien subject to this proclamation does not board an aircraft traveling to the United States. > (c) The Secretary of Homeland Security may establish standards and procedures to ensure the application of this proclamation at and between all United States ports of entry. > (d) An alien who circumvents the application of this proclamation through fraud, willful misrepresentation of a material fact, or illegal entry shall be a priority for removal by the Department of Homeland Security. > Sec. 4. Termination. This proclamation shall remain in effect until terminated by the President. The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall recommend that the President continue, modify, or terminate this proclamation as described in section 5 of Proclamation 9984, as amended. > Sec. 5. Effective Date. This proclamation is effective at 11:59 p.m. eastern daylight time on March 13, 2020. This proclamation does not apply to persons aboard a flight scheduled to arrive in the United States that departed prior to 11:59 p.m. eastern daylight time on March 13, 2020. > Sec. 6. Severability. It is the policy of the United States to enforce this proclamation to the maximum extent possible to advance the national security, public safety, and foreign policy interests of the United States. Accordingly: > (a) if any provision of this proclamation, or the application of any provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be invalid, the remainder of this proclamation and the application of its provisions to any other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby; and > (b) if any provision of this proclamation, or the application of any provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be invalid because of the lack of certain procedural requirements, the relevant executive branch officials shall implement those procedural requirements to conform with existing law and with any applicable court orders. > Sec. 7. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect: > (i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or > (ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals. > (b) This proclamation shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations. > (c) This proclamation is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person. > IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this eleventh day of March, in the year of our Lord two thousand twenty, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-fourth. > DONALD J. TRUMP
- himalayan_yak 7y agoTrying hard not to be political. But POTUS speech seems to make things lot worse than better along anything. The efficacy of this travel ban is questionable (given all these exceptions such as one for UK. Can people coming from other parts just have a layover in UK and be get permission to enter the US?). But lets give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they did so in good faith. It is what's not in the speech that was very very concerning. - No mention of how / when / if people can get tested. - No mention of any plan to handle the economic situation. What happens when businesses in Tourism and restaurants run out of their runway and have to layoff people? What happens to hourly workers who get sick? - No assurance to encourage undocumented residents to go for testing if they experience symptoms. - No mention of large public events. Many local governments and private organizations are doing so in an ad-hoc ways. A consistent voice would literally save lives here. Their team seems to be singularly focused on 'winning the narrative' or 'spinning' properly than anything else... Well, I guess this is just my opinion.
- dx034 7y ago> Can people coming from other parts just have a layover in UK and be get permission to enter the US? I believe anyone who's been to the Schengen Area in the past x days faces the ban. Excluding the UK and Ireland surely had political reasons (the UK now also has >400 cases) but it's hard to define Europe if you don't use either Schengen or EU (both of which the UK isn't a part of).
- Symbiote 7y agoI wonder about British/Irish people. Passports for EU citizens aren't stamped anywhere in the EU. I live in Denmark. Would the USA know if I flew to the UK, then the USA? (I don't intend to do this.)
- dx034 7y agoThe details are unclear anyway. What about Schengen citizens living in the UK? I can imagine they'll generally let people in from UK and Ireland but question them about travel history and maybe proof of residence. Lying to a border agent gets you banned for life, that should be a decent deterrent. In the end, it's not like a terrorism threat where the ones trying hardest are the ones you need to catch. Here, keeping 99% out can suffice easily, esp if the others are also questioned and are getting temperature checks.
- blackrock 7y agoHe’s dead Jim. Captain, it appears the containment has failed. What are your next orders?
- klintcho 7y agoOne thing though; which airline will fly only american citizen back from europe? will they fill a plane with those customers only? I think my main concern is that most if not all major European airlines will cancel all flights, regardless if there are a couple of US citizen on the flights. Meaning it's probably still going to be somewhat problematic to get back (if not from London then of course)
- MrQuincle 7y agoThey might lose landing rights. That's often enough reason to keep flying, even with empty planes.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Karto 7y agoAnd that's what has been going on for a few days inside Europe now. Airlines flying empty or near empty planes to keep their slots. The European Commission was meant to make a move about that, I don't know if that's been done already or not.
- thyselius 7y agoI'm trying to find more information about this, as I'm a tourist visiting the US flying back on Sunday. Does anyone know how this will play out, will they keep flying FROM the US to Europe?
- sub7 7y agoIf they cancel flights, you'll have to route via the UK. I suggest getting back to wherever it is you want to spend the next couple months asap.
- raxxorrax 7y agoThe levenshtein distance between tourist and terrorist is only 4, so my prognosis looks bleak. But fun aside, I think you are still fine. To my knowledge no flights from the US seem to be cancelled so far. If they really do cancel flights, you could try to use another route trough another EU country. But I think that is still unlikely to be required. That might change though, but probably not until Sunday.
- sebow 7y agoEU=/=Europe, but i doubt NBC knows the distinction, amongst their moronic audience
- surds 7y agoIndia has suspended all casual travel (based on type of visa) to India from all countries. One of the latest positive cases was an individual who traveled from USA. He might now have spread it to a cab driver, his family and now their circles (school, offices) have possible exposure. :/ Given that he is one of the people who was not tested in the USA, and he has to be isolated here now, how many people like him might be spreading it far and wide in the USA? :(
- Yetanfou 7y agoI just did some back-of-the-sleeve calculations on the incidence of Corona-infections in the US which make me wonder which continent is protected against which by this travel ban. My source of information is the video reporting by Dr. John Campbell [1] who thus far has been one of the more level-headed sources on the ongoing pandemic. Here goes: The official number of cases in the US as reported by Campbell is 1084, with 33 dead. This number roughly tallied with what I see on the CDC site (they report 938 cases, 28 dead) [2]. The major of Seattle estimates there around 1100 infections in this city (source: Campbell's video), a number which could grow to about 70.000 in 6 weeks (source: Campbell's video, most likely based on the spread in Wuhan) Seattle has a population of around 750.000 people, i.e. 0.146% of the population carries the infection. The total population of the USA is around 328 million. 95% of the USA land mass consists of rural area with a total population of around 60 million (~20%), the other 80% of the population lives in metropolitan areas (source: Wikipedia). If the infection rate of Seattle is used as a guide for the infection rate for the entire metropolitan population in the USA there are about 390.000 infected people in the country at the moment. While it is unlikely that this infection rate goes for the entire metropolitan population it is not out of the question given the high mobility of people in the USA. Even if actual the infection rate is a tenth of that in Seattle there are still around 38.000 infected people in the country. Who is being protected against whom by this travel ban? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzXQ6Bu9JVI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzXQ6Bu9JVI [2] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html
- samuelfekete 7y agoPeople from the UK who have holidays planned in the US would be better of with the UK being included in the ban, because they would then be able to get refunds for their flights etc.
- sanguy 7y agoThe UK exemption is logical. The UK immigration systems are linked and accessible by the US. This is why the trusted-traveller program could be extended to cover the UK with an additional registration. So the US immigration side knows all details of people connecting via the UK to the US so their pre-screening is effective. This includes how they got to the UK.
- Pusha_Drugz 7y agoCouldnt you just travel to Canada and get to U.S through there? I get that it will reduce the number of people somewhat but it might
- markvdb 7y agoUnilateral amateurism is not how things should be done. Look at Singapore for how things _should_ be done.
- logfromblammo 7y agoContainment has already failed. That's why COVID-19 was declared pandemic. Governments, and their public health employees in particular, should be switching to management, mitigation, triage, and treatment now. The assumption is that everybody will get it. The goal now is to ensure that a person occupying an ICU beds will be treated and recovered by the time the next patient needs to be admitted into it. Issuing more extensive travel bans now are driving in the rear-view mirror instead of keeping eyes on the road ahead. It's already here, and spreading in the community. First priority is viable testing. You can't manage what you can't detect. Then it's like controlling a nuclear chain reaction with irregularly-shaped fuel in a randomly-configured reactor. You want to eventually consume all the dangerously radioactive fuel, but you don't want a runaway reaction and core meltdown either. So you stick control rods and moderator fluids and neutron reflectors in as needed to control the rate of the reaction, based on your monitoring, and just keep doing it until all the unreacted fuel is gone. And the whole time, people are dropping dead from the radiation. But then the reaction finally burns itself out, and you can breathe easy again, then reflect upon your failures to revise your plans for the next one. The federal response has already failed. Now is the time for lots of smart people, who can adapt quickly, to implement ad hoc measures at the local level, based on local conditions, and draw on their public health emergency budgets, that hopefully weren't cut or raided already, and their preparedness efforts, that hopefully actually exist.