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Microsoft has removed the “use offline account” option when installing Windows

• Endy 7y ago
  So what happens if you use a soldering iron and cut out the network chip from a laptop, or don't put a network card in the desktop?
• goatinaboat 7y ago
  FTA They have not removed it, it just is not visible by default if you are connected to the internet. So it’s just a UI issue
  • pndy 7y ago
    This is more a dark pattern issue: user who's connected to the Internet during OOBE stage of installation will be forced to create or login with online account because it won't have other choice visible while the choice still exist but is simply hidden, because of MS "goals".
    • labawi 7y ago
      Can confirm. I was installing Win10 for a fried a few weeks ago and couldn't create a local account. After a couple minutes of search to no avail, I tried: Just how is that supposed to work if I unplug the internet? By letting you create a local account, of course.
      • pndy 7y ago
        Last time I had to reinstall, OOBE creator nagged me twice to go online when it couldn't detect network connection - it even show me Wifi page while my PC has an older motherboard that doesn't feature it. That was kinda... desperate.
  • Moru 7y ago
    They are moving a small step each update, moving it around, making it harder to find for each step. Sooner or later it will be missing completely.
  • ekianjo 7y ago
    Its not a UI issue if it forces you to do something. its by design.
  • alxlaz 7y ago
    > So it’s just a UI issue The same way implicitly-ticked "I agree to receive spam^H^H^H^H your newsletters every week" are "just a UI issue". Yes, it's implemented through an UI element, like most computer-related things today, but let's not pretend it's not a dubious move that's done for the benefit of anyone except the people who paid for the damn thing.
• freeflight 7y ago
  Used to be that you shouldn't install Windows online to prevent getting exploited by malware before you had a chance to patch. Now it looks like one has to install offline to prevent getting adware and all kinds of other things, what amazing progress. As somebody still stuck on Win7 I'm dreading the change, sadly Linux is not really an option because I like my PC gaming. Any good resources on what to look out for when installing Win10, what to turn off and when to stay offline when setting what things up? I keep seeing/picking up small tips all over the place, but I have yet to find something comprehensive.
  • BlueTemplar 7y ago
    Linux PC gaming has gotten much better (except for VR).
    • Can_Not 7y ago
      A lot of titles are missing, but has gotten better, and for me personally it's gotten to a point where if it doesn't run on linux, I don't really need to play it.
  • dave7 7y ago
    > sadly Linux is not really an option because I like my PC gaming. This is changing and very quickly with Valve Proton. I would advise you try your gaming collection in Steam on Linux. It is getting to the point where one can purchase a game and it will likely just work, with the exception of a few DRM nasties.
    • NotOscarWilde 7y ago
      It really depends on your video game tastes, I think. There are now essentially three types of games which I enjoy playing: 1) Indie games; 2) Big studio releases (some of them); 3) Competitive online 3D shooters. My experience is that 1) usually work well on Linux and the small studios these days usually make sure it works on Mac and Linux, which is great. I do not know of any games in the 2) category that really do work on Linux (Activision, Ubisoft and EA simply don't care) and this actually impacts me in 3) -- unless I want to play a 7 year old CS:GO, I am out of luck on Linux. (Just to be clear, I am saying this as a person that has Linux at work & on my laptop and who would really love to get rid of my Win 10 on my gaming desktop PC. For gaming lovers with different tastes, I think the situation actually is not that bad if you are willing to have a console at home -- you can cover 1) and 2) this way, just not 3).)
• x40 7y ago
  Microsoft ruining everything.
• mentos 7y ago
  “They have not removed it, it just is not visible by default if you are connected to the internet. Either run the setup without being connected to the internet, or type in a fake phone number a few times and it will give you the prompt to create a local account.”
  • EvanAnderson 7y ago
    I've been installing Windows 10 w/o an active network connection since its release. Sounds like that'll become a more common thing for others.
    • atoav 7y ago
      Maybe you do the same thing as me: only connect the internet once everything is done and all bloat has been removed
  • danShumway 7y ago
    That's a pretty clear dark pattern, no? At the very least, it signals that Microsoft really doesn't want users creating offline accounts. Which is troubling, because their TOS for online accounts is quite onerous, and includes a couple of problematic restrictions, including a mandatory arbitration agreement. If I was a Windows user who relied on local accounts this would be very worrying to me.
    • weka 7y ago
      It's most definitely a dark pattern. Just how reddit now prompts you to enter an email when you register but it's not marked as required and it doesn't say optional either.
      • FreakyT 7y ago
        To be fair, it’s really unusual that they even let you get an account without an email — I believe they’re still one of the only major sites left that allow this at all.
• nickjj 7y ago
  Seems like it's still there, just harder to access now. The "best" sorted comment says: > They have not removed it, it just is not visible by default if you are connected to the internet. Either run the setup without being connected to the internet, or type in a fake phone number a few times and it will give you the prompt to create a local account.
  • Zhyl 7y ago
    At this point they've crossed over from 'dark pattern' to 'black magic fuckery'.
    • mkl 7y ago
      There's no indication of magical behaviour, it's just unfriendly.
      • weikju 7y ago
        And it will end up being used by fewer people, after which their telemetry will indicate that fewer than X % of people are using the feature thus they will claim it's justified to remove it.
        • nickjj 7y ago
          Yes, and I bet that data is what provoked them to start doing this already. Even before this change you have to navigate out of your way to pick an offline account. It would be easy to think "oh, a large percent of users don't want local accounts" just looking at the telemetry data. When really that's a given because the option is only going to be found by someone who knows beforehand that they want an offline account and fully expects it to be buried multiple menus deep in an advanced setting. Microsoft was doing really good to gain developer traction with things like WSL, VSCode and the upcoming WSL2 release. But if they ever really do require a real account to use Windows, well... that's enough to cancel all of those things out to the point where die hard developers might just throw their arms up in the air and move to Linux even if it means making sacrifices for certain things.
• aaomidi 7y ago
  I just want them to let me pick my own god damned name for the home folder. I hate the weird shit they pick for me.
  • NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    why do people still use windows? It's stupid and naive to ask that, but I keep wondering why devs aren't successful in getting changes made at their companies.
    • jrockway 7y ago
      I use Windows because pretty much every program ever runs on Windows. Buy some weird device? Hey, it has drivers! Want to play the latest game? Hey, there's a Windows version! The same is simply not true of other platforms. The reality is that it's the most popular OS, so when someone can only write their computer program once, they do it for Windows. It sucks, but that's how it is. I use Linux for pretty much all my work, though, preferring a Linux VM to a Windows-native setup. I have tried to make Powershell usable, but the console is terrible (and the replacements are equally bad) and the language itself isn't that amazing. (Their "curl" equivalent requires you to open IE once to activate some setting, for example.) I also hate putty. Never in the history of computing has a program made it so difficult to use the same font for every server you connect to, or to talk to something on a serial port, etc. The way Windows deals with serial ports and the like is so silly that I just have an RPi on my desk for interacting with USB devices... I ssh to that, and then don't deal with Windows anymore.
      • TheRealDunkirk 7y ago
        You may be interested in MobaXterm. Don't let the name fool you; it's a good SSH client for Windows. I spent 20 years or so hassling with PuTTY, and just discovered this a few months ago. More people should know about it. I still need pagent for git, and the like, but at least Moba solves the set-the-terminal-options-once-for-all-SSH-sessions problem.
    • maple3142 7y ago
• Kuinox 7y ago
  I setuped a Windows VM today. It's still easy to do, but you need to know where it is, or to persist like me: clicking around then i found it behind "set up for organization" and "domain join instead".
• npmaile 7y ago
  I understand correcting the title to be more accurate to the situation, but I think the discussion should be focused on how Microsoft is taking power away from users, and has business incentive to do so. I don't like that the greater tech community rallies behind Microsoft for doing some basic contributions to open source and then hand waves away moves like this. Edit: the comment section has shifted and I'm less disappointed.
  • ekianjo 7y ago
    Open source contributions for Microsoft are just like charities for big corporations with despicable practices. They can use it to say "hey we are not that bad, after all we support FOSS!"
    • userbinator 7y ago
      MS has been open-sourcing a lot of stuff in the past few years, which I see more as meaning that their IP has little intrinsic value anymore. MS used to sell software, so code was sacred and not meant for others to see; now it's more about services, so code doesn't really matter much anymore, and if it's code that can help people use their services, open-sourcing makes sense. You can see this with Google, Facebook, and all the others which release huge amounts of FOSS; they are not in the business of selling software either.
      • brain5ide 7y ago
        Yes! This shift of business was somehow perceived by the public as the win of open source, but has actually amazingly been an actual loss on the control that you have with the money that you spend.
        • xtracto 7y ago
          Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. People have short memories of Microsoft practices and for some reason have "drunk the kool-aid". Ballmer was better because his tactics were not "sleazy", they were straight and clear. This new exec team is sleazy and trying to give a "good face" when the reality is that they are as bad as they have always been. But people get flashed with the new & shiny open source crumbs that are given.
• 1_player 7y ago
  The online account is crap. I converted my offline account recently to the online one, just to see what's the difference. The difference is that I cannot even set a password, it asks me to set up a PIN number to log in. Of course you can set it to accept letters in your PIN, so it can function as a regular password. But what the hell is the point? (In fact, I didn't set any PIN the first time and at the next reboot I had to log in with my Microsoft account password, which is decidedly more complicated that the not-very-secure one I use to log in my PC. Thank god I have a password manager on my phone.)
  • inetknght 7y ago
    I can't even get into my Microsoft account. When I go to reset it, Microsoft claims that there is insufficient information to reset and unlock the account. Meanwhile I can't log in to the account (because it's locked) and still receive notifications about the account (click here to unlock it)
  • philliphaydon 7y ago
    Just change your login method? I use pin at home desktop and password on my laptop.
• michaelmrose 7y ago
  This seems like it is preparatory to removing it entirely. It wouldn't be shocking if in 10 years you need a Microsoft account to use windows on a computer you don't have root access to that isn't allowed to run a non ms os or to distribute software that ms gets a 30% cut. If it isn't so it will be because they don't think they can get away with it.
  • shakna 7y ago
    > to use windows on a computer you don't have root access to that isn't allowed to run a non ms os or to distribute software that ms gets a 30% cut. That's basically how the SurfaceRT worked, isn't it? So they've already attempted this once.
    • cl0ckt0wer 7y ago
      That's what Windows S mode is https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/s-mode https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/s-mode
      • Filligree 7y ago
        Well, that's worrisome.
        • tobias3 7y ago
          Well, they have to compete with ChromeOS, I guess... Currently they allow you to exit S mode to a normal Home edition.
          • vunie 7y ago
            Currently.
  • Spooky23 7y ago
    Absolutely. They are starting to give away a year or two of Microsoft 365 (Office + Azure AD + other crap) to trap corporate identity.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• sandworm101 7y ago
  Another great day for linux.
  • benatkin 7y ago
    Year Of Linux on the Desktop for sure this time!
  • tim58 7y ago
    I'm sad Windows still has a (basic) monopoly on computer gaming.
    • sandworm101 7y ago
      Who told you that? Look at all the games on steam proton. All the best indi games run fine on linux. I was playing eve online last night and subnautica a few days ago. Ksp, factorio, minecraft ... there are tons of great games on linux.
      • stOneskull 7y ago
        Including Thimbleweed Park, the best game ever
        • pnako 7y ago
          Never heard of it. It looks like Monkey Island, which is IMHO one of the best games ever.
          • stOneskull 7y ago
            it's made by the guy who made monkey island. you'll love it. i was so stoked to have my book on the library shelf in the game. there were user submissions while the game was in progress and it really added something special to it.
      • a_imho 7y ago
        Are there Linux exclusive titles?
• egdod 7y ago
  >Windows is a service Windows used to be a fucking operating system. That’s all I want it to be.
  • amiga-workbench 7y ago
    Its pretty much the McDonalds of operating systems these days, I do not know how people put up with it.
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • crispinb 7y ago
      Because there are no good options. The best most people can achieve is the least-worst collection of trade-offs for their particular situation.
    • manigandham 7y ago
      What else is any average user going to switch to exactly?
      • allset_ 7y ago
        Linux? Basically everything an average user does is in the browser.
        • manigandham 7y ago
          Except it isnt. Games, media, and all kinds of connected devices and hardware today makes Linux a non-starter. There have been startups before trying to do this, a famous one being Lindows. Never got anywhere.
        • crispinb 7y ago
          Only delusional ideologists even entertain the notion that the primary reason Linux hasn't caught on widely as a desktop OS is lack of preinstallation or marketing (or pick your corporate crime du jour). Desktop Linux has many uses (it's my main OS right now). But the reason it hasn't caught on widely is perfectly obviously that as technology for the regular consumer, it's bloody awful. Many Linux enthusiasts admit this perfectly readily, but for obscure reasons some insist on clutching Linux to their chests as an identity totem. This is probably less harmful than nationalism, so I guess I shouldn't object too much.
• Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
  Use an operating system which respects you as the owner of your computer, not as a commodity to be exploited.
  • bavell 7y ago
    Completely agree. As a Linux power user I get a sort of smug satisfaction reading about problems like these. That said, I do wish others had more choices than a convenient OOTB experience that exploits users and a respectful experience that they must invest large chunks of time and effort into setting up.
  • rvz 7y ago
    I agree, but unfortunately, end-users just want to buy products that just work without fiddling around with settings, etc. The HN audience and generally programmers are usually pro-Linux which makes sense, but they keep forgetting that apps like Office, Adobe, etc are only on Windows / Mac which Linux has to resort to fiddling with hacks like Wine which is not enough for an out-of-the-box experience with end-users. The mindshare, user experience of Mac and Windows just prevents end-users from bothering to try, fiddle and learn Linux just to do serious work for anyone that is not a programmer these days.
    • Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
      Arguments like this also ignore the success of Chromebooks. The "average" person doesn't actually care about the things you listed. Some professionals might. But the average person isn't a photoshop user, and libreoffice works well enough. A default Ubuntu install doesn't require much if anything in the way of settings mungery, and I recall many a nightmare of getting drivers working on Windows back in the day.
      • rvz 7y ago
        > A default Ubuntu install doesn't require much if anything in the way of settings mungery... I don't think any user would be bothered in attempting to install Ubuntu to replace Windows unless they are 'tech-savvy' enough or a software engineer. Such users would only see that as a double negative in losing their apps + UX mental model just to get things done. They first have to unlearn Windows/Mac and then replace their missing apps just use the selected Linux OS (Ubuntu, ChromeOS, etc) which just isn't worth it. > I recall many a nightmare of getting drivers working on Windows back in the day. Yes, Windows is a nightmare for getting drivers working, but I have heard worse stories of Linux users complaining about X11/Wayland bringing down their desktop plus the graphical issues Wine has when running Windows apps and games.
• xeeeeeeeeeeenu 7y ago
  I don't understand why so many people on HN praise Satya Nadella. I guess good PR is worth much more than actions. Before Nadella, Windows wasn't nearly as user-hostile as it is now. There was no mandatory telemetry, there were no forced updates, end users weren't treated as betatesters and QA wasn't non-existent. And now they are taking away the ability to use Windows without Microsoft Account. Of course there are also many other problems with Windows 10, like the UWP fiasco, but they're minor in comparison to what Microsoft is doing with user's freedom and privacy. I always preferred Windows to Unixes, but at this point I think it's time to give up and switch to some Linux distribution. It's clear that the situation will only get worse.
  • JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
    Most people on HN, I would postulate, don't use Windows. We might use VS Code, we might use Azure, but we aren't using Microsoft's operating system.
    • bitwize 7y ago
      Then explain all those "Windows with WSL is the only Linux desktop I'll ever use" posts.
      • detaro 7y ago
        Not made by most people, and (anecdotally) often made by people for which the alternative to a "Linux desktop" is a Mac, not Windows.
    • HenryKissinger 7y ago
      Windows remains the most convenient OS for video games, and given HN's userbase (mostly young men), I think a lot of people here use Windows.
      • greggman2 7y ago
        Windows is also the arguably the domain of GPU related dev. I see lots of Razer laptops. They are small and same weight as a MBP but you can get a 2080 RTX (previously 1060 GTX). Even the newest MBA's GPU is not 1/2 as fast as the 3 year old Razer (and its peers)
• tenebrisalietum 7y ago
  Microsoft is clearly taking moves that enable "PC as a service". I imagine the end game is something like you pay Microsoft so much a month on a subscription, receive hardware that is preconfigured with and tied to your Microsoft account details or your company's Azure AD configuration and locked down with InTune, unhackable with properly implemented Class 3+ UEFI and Secure Boot, etc. You then purchase additional software subscriptions, such as your Photoshop, etc., through the Microsoft store, with Microsoft taking a cut like Apple. If your computer breaks, pay the $50 or $100 insurance and receive a new one from Microsoft, if it's not folded into your monthly "Microsoft Technology Subscription." So when Microsoft completes its takeover of the PC, what's the platform and OEM landscape going to look like? This endgame clearly puts companies like Dell, HP, Asus, etc. and the companies that provide parts like Intel, AMD in a subordinate position to Microsoft. They probably won't like that. Will they give up? Will they try to start to make hardware for Apple? Will these companies embrace Linux and provide a third way?
  • JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
    To the end user, what makes this model preferable to buying the operating system software? For some businesses higher up the stack, it makes sense-- e.g., people spend $X per month on the Adobe Suite, and people tend to enjoy that.
    • tenebrisalietum 7y ago
      I really think if you explained this properly to most end users they will still want something like what Microsoft is moving toward. Let Microsoft worry about it, is what they'll say. Non-tech people don't want to buy and upgrade operating systems. They see the operating system as part of the device. I'd like to say selling operating systems to non-technical people doesn't work, but I'm not sure it's ever really been tried. The bulk of Microsoft's OS sales have never been to end users, but to OEMs and companies on Software Assurance. Now technical people are certainly involved where an IT department builds systems for companies, but I think Microsoft wants to eliminate that too.
      • 7y ago
• decafbad 7y ago
  If I use my live.com account, Windows sets system username automatically with first five letters of my first name. Then I see this stupid choice every time I open Windows console.
  • derrikcurran 7y ago
    Yeah, I've always found that behavior really annoying. And it's basically impossible to fix it after the fact without making a separate account. The trick, if you know it before hand, is to make a local account (I guess you need to be offline for that now) and then link it later.
• mastazi 7y ago
  This is incredibly bad. In general I have a positive opinion about what MS is doing lately, but Windows is a glaring exception, it’s getting worse and worse at an alarming rate. In the last two months we had two consecutive updates that broke basic functionality for users who disabled web results in Windows Search (which is a very common setting among those who care about privacy) https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-1903-microsoft-details-search-fix-as-new-update-bug-hits/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-1903-microsoft-deta... Now, MS is trying to force upon customers this cloud login garbage, which is obviously not acceptable if you are privacy conscious. I build my own PCs and have spent hundreds of dollars in Windows 10 retail licenses, I pay for the service so I don’t want to be the product. I’ve always assumed that I’m locked into using Windows but after all this crap I’m starting to look into alternatives even though they’v got shortcomings on their own. (Edit: replaced Amp link with real link, sorry I didn’t realise it was Amp)
  • snagglegaggle 7y ago
    It is bad, but I do not think you are stuck. But there are two fronts -- business offerings are going the same way. There is lots of pressure to use almost exclusively MS hosted services. And, in that market, not everything has a good replacement.
    • mastazi 7y ago
      The reason why I feel like I’m stuck is based on my personal use case. Basically I need two things: A. Being able to use some proprietary software not available on Linux B. Being able to self build so I can select the HW that works for me With Linux I lose A and with Mac I would lose B. I’m thinking that a combo Mac Mini + Tower PC with Linux could work, but using two OSes at the same time, even with shared NAS, KVM switch etc., would not be the best in terms of UX (Edit I had mixed up “A” and “B” in my sentence)
      • craftyguy 7y ago
        > A. Being able to use some proprietary software not available on Linux What software is this? Perhaps it runs under Wine?
• charliebrownau 7y ago
  Its almost like they want to push people to use Linux instead of Win8/10 Failing upwards
• just_one_time_ 7y ago
  Be a man, use Linux.
• dlbucci 7y ago
  Man, I just set up a Windows laptop for my wife past week and made sure to skip it. I guess she bought it at just the right time...
• runn1ng 7y ago
  Buy pirated Windows LTSC on ebay (or actual, if you have 260 usd to spare), it solves most of Windows 10 problems
  • userbinator 7y ago
    If you're going to pirate, might as well pirate Windows Server, which is basically the same kernel with a far less offensive (and bloated) userland configuration.
    • runn1ng 7y ago
      Isn’t LTSC better as a desktop? It’s just Windows 10 without the user hostile crap. But I have never run Windows Server
      • userbinator 7y ago
        I'm not sure, I've not tried LTSC --- but the fact that I've met a few Microsoft employees who run the Server version on their company desktops and even laptops (because as an employee, they can get legit licenses for basically free) speaks volumes about what they think of Win10...
    • anticensor 7y ago
      Windows 10 Server supports Store, LTSC does not.
  • jonny383 7y ago
    Install Ubuntu.
  • wmp56 7y ago
    Why do you even need Windows in that case? Internet isn't any different when seen from Ubuntu and if you really have to use Windows, because AutoCAD and Photoshop, then you're paid enough to not worry about 260 usd.
• Tagbert 7y ago
  I dislike this because I would need to use a much more complex password for my home computer. Or I can choose to use a simpler to type/remember password for the online account and I don’t feel comfortable with that. I’m sure that many of you use long complex passwords for your computers but I don’t for my home computer. I have to type if often to login and the environment is not a high risk area. I do use longer and more random passwords for accounts with a wider exposure.
• kstenerud 7y ago
  I recently set up a ci system in Windows, spending over a month getting things working with various versions of visual studio, etc. I tried with Windows 10, and widows server 2019. The end result was that Windows 2019 is super fast to set up, and literally compiled the same c code in half the time it took in Windows 10. The user interface was a lot snappier, and just felt nice, like how xp felt after disabling all the eye candy. If it weren't for the insane pricing, server 2019 would be the ultimate windows os...
• abacadaba 7y ago
  They finally got rid of RMS, this is just celebratory gunfire.
• GlenTheMachine 7y ago
  ...and from what I can tell, their online account security is craptastic. Here’s a true story that happened to my family. My son is the only person in the house who uses Windows. For his game machine. He set up a Microsoft online account. It got hacked - someone set up a fake family and managed to get my son’s account listed under it as a child. As a consequence, he couldn’t install any new software. I’m not sure what the point of this particular hack is, but that was the result. So we called Microsoft customer service. It turns out that there is no way to get an account removed from a family once it’s listed there. The Windows rep we talked to had a recourse, though. He proposed that we, the three of us, attempt to reverse-hack the fake “dad”’s account over the phone by trying to guess his password. I had to explain to the gentleman that, even though we were within our moral rights to do this, a) it was almost certainly illegal, and b) doomed to failure. He didn’t understand the issue. Eventually we had to agree to disagree, and hang up on him. We never got my son’s account back. We wiped his computer and installed Windows via “use offline account”. I’m glad this was last year and not today, I guess?
  • EugeneOZ 7y ago
    Astonishing story, thanks for sharing. It actually says a lot about their level of customers support and care.
  • thrower123 7y ago
    I'm almost certain that you were not talking to a real Microsoft employee. Most Fortune 500s have their helpdesks and customer service outsourced to the Tatas and Wipros, Cognizants and HCLs of the world, who may or may not further subcontract the actual bodies filling the roles. Quite frankly, first-level support is useless and ignorant; at best they have scripts for common issues, but to do anything you need to defeat their efforts to no-op and close the ticket, and instead get escalated to a real person with some agency and authority.
    • withaplomb 7y ago
      Even people who are bad at their jobs are real people. We can’t assume that everyone of low intelligence or motivation is sub human. Just say agency and authority, that made your point.
• klingonopera 7y ago
  As someone who uses Windows for industrial PCs, I'm pretty appalled. We've been hanging on to Windows 7, including side-loading drivers into the installation image for modern hardware, because this kind of stuff that Windows 10 does is in these cases simply unacceptable (random tip: Go for AMD, their Windows 7 support is way better than Intel, do not use Intel chipset series 300). I can't have PCs bogged down downloading updates or randomly restarting when they're controlling endurance test rigs designed to run 24/7. Driver issues with Linux, no real vendor support and (believe it or not) stability was the reason Windows prevailed in these applications. And MS threw that all out the window. Oh well, I'd get paid to rewrite the control software in Linux, I'm not really complaining, I just hope there's enough driver support (looking at you, National Instruments...).
  • wvenable 7y ago
    Why are you using a consumer level OS/setup for this? PC's setup in a corporate environment are tightly controlled, even with Windows 10.
    • huntie 7y ago
      Windows is pretty common for control systems in factories. One factory I worked in used a web application, the one I'm in now uses VB applications. One of the control systems I use is running Windows2K. These computers have Internet access too.
    • CamperBob2 7y ago
      Because they're all consumer level OSes now, unless you can afford an enterprise license. Not every organization can. It used to be perfectly reasonable to run light industrial and test equipment on Windows.
    • MrStonedOne 7y ago
      Why are you perpetuating the myth that there is a difference?
  • kyberias 7y ago
    You should use the appropriate edition of Windows 10 for your use case: Windows 10 IoT Enterprise. You can disable all the updates and everything you want.
• HashThis 7y ago
  Move to Apple computers. This is wrong. Vote with your dollars.
• morpheuskafka 7y ago
  Surely it is still there, how else could a business set up a PC to join on-premises AD?
• edwinyzh 7y ago
  This is unbelievably bad decision for a Desktop OS!
• dewitt 7y ago
  This is problematic even for people who don't mind linking to an online Microsoft account (I'm one of them). There is a long-standing Windows bug where local user directory names are created using a truncated version of the online account's name. This is rarely what you want. The work-around has long been to create an offline account first to name your own local directory, then convert it to an online account. This will break that work-around, and this is universally bad.
  • Havoc 7y ago
    I've just resigned myself to the fact that the last letter of name is cut off. Seems super silly since it's capable of showing the full name everywhere else. Maybe some MS dev hasn't cottoned on to the string count starts at [0] lol
• caconym_ 7y ago
  In theory I have two Microsoft accounts but I think there was a botched DB migration at some point because they've been merged somehow into a weird broken state that shows info from both. I tried to contact Microsoft support to get this fixed but they were totally useless, and that's when I gave up. Not going back.
• andrerm 7y ago
  Microsoft just came late to the behavioral profiling party
• anonytrary 7y ago
  I really dislike this online-only trend. It feels like a step backwards in usability design. If anything, every app should strive to be offline-first. Microsoft is turning everyone's PCs into internet nodes that collect data and stats. It's a way for them to get more social and behavioral data on their incredibly large market. I sure miss Windows 7. Microsoft ruined things with Vista, which 7 fixed. They ruined 7 with 8 and 9, which 10 sort of fixed. They're ruining 10 by including all of these "modern" features like an AI assistant, and having an "account" on their backend.
• rietta 7y ago
  I ran into that with my last test VM setup. Very annoying. I'm glad my daily driver is Ubuntu Linux for development. Went with the Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition on this refresh cycle and the hardware support has been perfect.
• hermitdev 7y ago
  Um, I just installed the latest Win 10 Development VM on Tuesday from a download of the image the same day, and it most certainly allowed me to install with a non MS account. I dont have the exact build number on hand, but its supposed to be the fast insider ring, from what I read.
  • noisem4ker 7y ago
    It's probably the 18970 build. Yes, it allows you to. Yes, Microsoft already reverted the change that some redditor just discovered. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3409788/how-microsoft-made-it-harder-to-create-windows-10-local-accounts.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3409788/how-microsoft-made-i...
• tapirl 7y ago
  As a happy Win8 user, that's exactly the reason why I switched from Win10 to Linux. Many offline functions need online to perform. It is sad.
  • weka 7y ago
    And I refuse to kowtow to a company who thinks its okay to purchase a stand for $1,000 for another piece of hardware you've additionally paid for.
    • jen729w 7y ago
      Couldn’t resist a dig at Apple in a totally unrelated thread, eh? You know you can use any monitor you like. You don’t have to buy their $6,000 monitor. I’ve used Macs happily for years and have yet to spend that much on a monitor or a stand.
    • paulcole 7y ago
      What company are you talking about?
      • jamie_ca 7y ago
        Apple, with the new Mac Pro. Mac starting at $6k, Screen starting at $5k, but the monitor itself is only good on a (I hope) VESA mount, if you want an ordinary desk stand it's an extra $1k. https://www.cnet.com/news/1000-apple-mac-pro-display-stand-sparks-anger-online/ https://www.cnet.com/news/1000-apple-mac-pro-display-stand-s...
        • ztjio 7y ago
          It's ridiculous to call it an "ordinary desk stand" it's anything but. A 100% perfectly calibrate weightlessly counterbalanced stand is a godsend for those who need it. The rest can get the VESA adapter instead. Furthermore, this is a product targeting a market that normally spends over $40,000 on a monitor without any mounting gear or stand to do the same work. Apple's display a bargain in context. If you think this is "an ordinary desk stand" then you are, without one iota of a doubt, absolutely not the consumer who needs or wants the device or even understands it.
• lone_haxx0r 7y ago
  Meanwhile, the Linux world is wasting its biggest opportunity to take over the desktop space. IMO, Unintuitive interfaces (e.g. Gnome shell), forced package management (as opposed to decentralized distribution of apps) and lack of care for graphic design are the biggest things keeping the masses away from the Linux desktop, because in other areas (speed, robustness, privacy, control) it just blows Windows out of the water. All of these are highly controversial opinions, many Linux advocates think they are not problems, but I think they really are.
  • dhruvkar 7y ago
    Pop_os! has done a lot for user experience (install and use), trending closer to macOS. I do see efforts being made towards capturing desktop users.
    • Enginerrrd 7y ago
      What Linux really needs is better support from third parties. If I could get a passable version of AutoCAD civil 3D on Linux, I'd never go back to windows. I'd be thrilled to pay for it. Of course... Microsoft owns AutoCAD. Coincidence???
      • yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
        ? I don't think Autodesk is owned by MS?
    • rewgs 7y ago
      It's great, but...good lord, that name. If your hope is to appeal to the masses, there are in my view two cardinal sins in OS naming: 1) Don't put "OS" in the name. It's an automatic "nerd alert." macOS is an exception because you don't have a choice to install it, and Apple is...well, Apple. They're often an exception to many things. 2) No punctuation marks, symbols, etc. Just letters. Pop_OS! breaks both of them, and one of them twice, and it drives me nuts, because it's a nice distro.
      • 7y ago
• jchw 7y ago
  I have long banned Windows 10 from my computers; I only use it in VMs now. If you desperately need Windows functionality for something but would rather use Linux, you may be in luck; there's quite a few options for GPU passthrough these days. If you're on a laptop you can even share your Intel GPU through GVT-g. For me, I am lucky. Wine and Steam Proton run basically anything I'd care to run anymore. I use only Linux for work, as well. I hope it's really worth it for them, because I've probably passed the last time I will ever consider running Windows until I'm in the ground, at this point. It's annoying, vexacious, constantly regressive, and almost literally never improves on this. From forcing you to have Candy Crush to switching your browser to Edge every update, Windows 10 is a piece of shit.
  • fendy3002 7y ago
    What's worse is win 10 is slower than win7 on hdd, due to superindexing and cortana, making me stick with win7 or ubuntu. Hope we'll get alternatives in the future. They can just enable these functions on free version, and make enterprise version configurable. I guess if they still keep this practice, the office will start to change to mac instead.
• thepear 7y ago
  The option isn’t gone, it’s under Join Domain, which allows you to create a local user as previous versions have.
• Fakira 7y ago
  I am not even sure why Windows matters anymore. MS probably gives 0 fucks about your usual consumers and cares only about those customers who will also buy Office365 subscription.
• exabrial 7y ago
  What is the profit driver behind this?
• cheschire 7y ago
  This isn't news. We're linking to someone complaining on reddit. Maybe an actual link would be more useful. And even this is from July. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3409788/how-microsoft-made-it-harder-to-create-windows-10-local-accounts.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3409788/how-microsoft-made-i...
  • noisem4ker 7y ago
    It is worrying that this is one of the only two informed comments on the matter, and it's being buried down the thread. On the other hand, I don't mind Microsoft getting some more crap thrown at, at all. Higher chance that their much eager marketing/PR team will take notice.
• everyone 7y ago
  @Everyone 'Windows 10 LTSB' is the true user-focused version of Windows 10. Its become one of my favourite OSes. It doesnt come with any shit on it (windows store, xboxlive, cortana etc etc.) MS have also promised It will not receive any updates that change its functionality but will receive security updates, for 10 years. You can only get it if u buy in bulk tho. Or, u can just get it from tpb.. Considering MS are intentionally not selling by far the most user-respecting version of their OS to regular folks, it behooves us to pirate it.
  • davidvgoliath 7y ago
    Agreed. 1000x. I do Windows Server because I should be able to have simultaneous multi-session instead of the intentionally hobbled singular "multi-session" offering in Client.
  • GordonS 7y ago
    I think you can also get it if you have a Visual Studio subscription (previously called an MSDN subscription) or an Action Pack subscription. The Action Pack is incredible value, BTW.
• noodlesUK 7y ago
  Is this true even on more enterprisey versions of windows? I tend to use py-kms to activate licenses when I rarely need them (such as on VMs), and I generally stick to workstation or LTSB versions of windows. LTSB is actually pretty nice.
• RedComet 7y ago
  Disturbing.
• arwhatever 7y ago
  Someone cleverly pointed out that Windows changed from "My Computer" to "This PC" in recent years.
• jtdev 7y ago
  Stuff like this is why I switched to Mac for daily use about 2 years ago. On the rare occasion that I have to get on a Windows machine, I’m shocked by how poor the experience is in comparison to MacOS. Not looking back, the MBA is a good value and the hardware is undeniably more refined and higher quality.
• Osiris 7y ago
  At least it can sleep and resume reliably. I have a Linux laptop and desktop and work and both of them crash on either suspend or resume. Actually, I installed the latest mainline kernel and managed to get my desktop to resume once, but the second resume locks up the whole system. So now I just do a full power off every day when I leave. The laptop is System 76 and comes with PopOS pre-installed and I still have issues whenever I have external monitors attached. Linux as a daily driver is a frustrating experience, though I do really appreciate the customization (I love i3).
  • WWLink 7y ago
    I had that problem with my Windows laptops too, especially the Precision 7245 I had! GRR I hated that laptop.
  • askthrowaway 7y ago
    When ever I lock screen it get black so i have to type password blindly. So overcome this I put laptop to sleep with wake up locked option disabled. So it wake up logged in immediately for now.
• cwojno 7y ago
  I've switched to Linux + Mint in part because I don't want to be using Windows any more. Many of my games work with Steam on Linux now, actually. With Google's docs/drive, everything works cross platform. I really have no productivity loss by not using Windows any more.
  • xtracto 7y ago
    > With Google's docs/drive, everything works cross platform What do you use instead of Google Backup and Sync client? I haven't found something that works like that. The "best" thing I've found is the FUSE Ocaml filesystem (https://github.com/astrada/google-drive-ocamlfuse https://github.com/astrada/google-drive-ocamlfuse) but still it is a "mounted" over network filesystem and not a sync-on-change solution. I tried InSync but could not make it work and it is not free, and also the Gnome "mount Google Drive" option, but it is also a "mounted" over network solution. Other than that and some of the rough edges (random bluetooth issues, random issues after updating, completely broken Android ADB support), I like Linux Mint a lot. I do all my work and play (CS:GO, NFS, Cities Skylines, Hitman) on it, even for games that are not supported by default.
    • phasnox 7y ago
      What about Dropbox? Also Nextcloud
      • pletnes 7y ago
        Dropbox runs on linux but they are missing a lot of features and it only works on unencrypted ext4 fs. They are slowly dropping support I would say.
        • btgeekboy 7y ago
          Dropbox recently updated the Linux FS limitations. See https://help.dropbox.com/installs-integrations/desktop/system-requirements#linux https://help.dropbox.com/installs-integrations/desktop/syste...
        • 7y ago
• rock_artist 7y ago
  Maybe that's part of Microsoft ongoing effort to make users switch from Windows to Linux :)
• cm2187 7y ago
  And what happens if the account get suspended (which Microsoft is known to occasionally randomly do)? You can’t login into your own physical machine?
• jammygit 7y ago
  I help a friends dad with his computer sometimes. A few times per year, he brings it to me and says it’s being slow. Every time, it’s windows update bogging his machine down for weeks, since it can’t seem to update on its own without crashing and causing issues. Last week it took over 5 hours to reinstall an update - several times longer than would be needed to install windows or Linux from scratch. I might install cinnamon next time he brings it by
  • tempguy9999 7y ago
    Perhaps install cinnamon in a VM like VirtualBox and let him roam over that first? See how he feels.
    • jsgo 7y ago
      I’ve had issues with performance related to Windows update, though the issue is typically space remaining on c for the update (I’ve since bumped my Windows partition up to ~500GB since the macOS one I don’t need a ton so have 500:500 instead of 900:100). I’d recommend not running VMs when it is being sluggish for Windows Update because the VM is going to feel sluggish too.
    • groundCode 7y ago
      I’ve tried this with my dad. The problem is, he never boots up the bum to have a go. He doesn’t really get how there can be more than one OS on his physical machine. So basically we are stuck in a cycle of him not wanting to switch until he’s used to the “new” thing but him never using the new thing.
      • Moru 7y ago
        This is a bit hard to understand for young people, I know :-) Older people have already spent so much time on learning new stuff that they feel spending even more time to learn something they already know how to do is a waste of time. I'm slowly moving into this category myself. Why do you have to redesign something that works just fine? Just because you want to get paid more is not ok reason.
• phendrenad2 7y ago
  Everyone knows the saying "If you're not paying for it, you're the product, not the customer". Well, when companies I've paid good money to still go against my wishes, I just assume I'm still partially the product... meaning I'm not paying them enough and they've sought other sources of income (or have removed features to simplify the product and devote less human-hours to maintaining it to cut costs). So what I'm saying is... Who out there is willing to make an OS at a $xxx/license price point that will just fucking do what I want? Any takers?
• cable2600 7y ago
  I can't wait until ReactOS is out of beta: https://reactos.org/ https://reactos.org/ There needs to be an alternative to Windows out there that actually uses Windows apps and drivers. WINE in Linux is not good enough for me yet. They just released a new version of ReactOS and I haven't checked it out yet. If it can run Google Chrome and run MS-Office and Visual Studio I might just switch to it.
• rasengan0 7y ago
  When I use ChromeOS, Windows 10 or MacOS El Capitan I guess I'm trading convenience for ...? Is there any computer vendor that does not call the mothership or need these special vendor accounts? ChromeOS <-- GalliumOS Windows <--- ? Apple <--- ? Where do I buy a decent computer these days that respects user privacy without jumping through legal hoops? Or is the last operating system, GNU/Linux - Linux that respects the user? System76? ZaReason? puri.sm? <-- very small marketshare Back in the day, my Apple //e never used to do that. Times have changed.
• netside 7y ago
  Hey Microsoft: Give us what we want!!!!!
• adreamingsoul 7y ago
  Which is why my windows 7 box will remain on windows 7 and unplugged from the internet.
• monkeycantype 7y ago
  Oh that’s so annoying, it’s the only 100% reliable way I’ve found to not have my user folder not named the first five letters of my truncates username. Edit: oh it’s not gone, it’s hidden
• Karliss 7y ago
  Is macOS usable without without apple account? Last time I was given a MacBook at work it seemed that updates go through their appstore app which requires apple account.
  • mrtksn 7y ago
    App updates and OS updates are in separate places. in MacOS, the Apple account is about syncing the iCloud stuff with your Mac.
  • xmodem 7y ago
    mac OS is plenty usable without an Apple account. It was still possible to install OS updates through the app store without an apple account. Now in Mojave it has become much easier, as they have moved OS updates to System Preferences.
• joewee 7y ago
  Realized after buying a windows laptop you can’t get bitlocker or drive encryption without having a MS account or paying for pro. So security isn’t a feature, it’s a paid add-on.
  • GordonS 7y ago
    VeraCrypt is a good alternative.
• dschuetz 7y ago
  It's hidden, not removed.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• xornox 7y ago
  I removed Windows when installed Ubuntu.
• carlosrg 7y ago
  AFAIK, the removed it in version 1803 or 1809 but added it back in 1903.
• zmix 7y ago
  This is why we need government regulations.
• black_puppydog 7y ago
  I just want to point out that nobody should really be surprised by this. It's essentially why I dropped windows like a hot potato when Windows 8 asked me to make an account tmfor the first time.
• bencollier49 7y ago
  This is good to know. I was about to buy a Windows machine to use with an EEPROM programmer (using most of them with a Mac or Linux is a faff) but this just stopped me.
• xaduha 7y ago
  LTSC
• dlphn___xyz 7y ago
  are there any decent ms office alternatives for linux (not libreoffice)?
  • commoner 7y ago
    Yes, there are several. All three of the following are free of charge on Linux. OnlyOffice is an open source office suite that has native support for Microsoft Office formats (.docx, .xlsx, .pptx). There is a desktop version that works offline and an online version that integrates with Nextcloud. There are also mobile apps (closed source). Home page: https://www.onlyoffice.com https://www.onlyoffice.com Download: https://www.onlyoffice.com/download-desktop.aspx https://www.onlyoffice.com/download-desktop.aspx GitHub: https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/DesktopEditors https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/DesktopEditors WPS Office (previously known as Kingsoft Office) is a closed source office suite that works on Linux. The software is quite popular in China, and the Android app has over 100 million downloads on the Play Store. Homepage: https://www.wps.com/office/linux https://www.wps.com/office/linux Download: http://wps-community.org/downloads http://wps-community.org/downloads Flatpak: https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.wps.Office https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.wps.Office FreeOffice is another closed source office suite for Linux. Homepage: https://www.freeoffice.com/en https://www.freeoffice.com/en Download: https://www.freeoffice.com/en/download/applications https://www.freeoffice.com/en/download/applications
• davidvgoliath 7y ago
  This is why I pirate Windows Server and KMS activate with an instance of vlmcsd on my home router (with the DNS SRV wizardry set up to allow automatic discovery). You can pay and pray, or you can vote both with your dollar and wits!
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
• deleted 7y ago
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• sbhn 7y ago
  Apple forced you to use an apple account for as long as i can remember
• mistaken 7y ago
  You can still switch to Audit mode during install using SHIFT-F2, follow https://bartsimons.me/sysprep-generalize-windows-image-without-oobe/ https://bartsimons.me/sysprep-generalize-windows-image-witho... to disable OOBE, then replace e.g. Narrator.exe with cmd.exe and set an administrator password. After that you can revert Narrator.exe back. It's a bit complicated, but it works and you don't have to create any additional accounts if you don't want to.
• m0xte 7y ago
  They did this with office 2019 activation as well. I’m actually done now with them.
• TekMol 7y ago
  How is the situation in the Apple world these days? Can you still activate an iPhone or iPad without providing a telephone number?
• glandium 7y ago
  Relatedly, when I wanted to enable full disk encryption on Windows 10 Home, it insisted that I switch to online account (as in, it was impossible to enable FDE until I did). WTF?
  • tobias3 7y ago
    I kind of understand this decision. Users forget their account password and lock themselves out. Then they complain about Windows loosing all their data. With an online account they can reset their password via mail, etc. There definitely should be an option to encrypt it like the in the pro version, but then you could also just buy the pro version (then you can also disable auto-updates...). It's not really expensive in the EU.
    • glandium 7y ago
      Is there an available Pro update for arm64? Heck, I couldn't even find an install image for the version I have, and for some reason, Windows reset doesn't work, so I hope Windows won't hose itself ever on that machine, because it will then be a brick.
• paweladamczuk 7y ago
  It's refreshing for me to read this thread. I've had the same issues, worries and irritations about Microsoft and Windows for a long time. I just never know how vocal I should be about them. I am surrounded by people who use Windows to write code, test software, manage, etc. every day, but they don't really seem to care or notice anything's wrong. This makes me anxious about sharing my concerns - what if they're just a personal illusion driven by some unconscious biases? My guess is I'm not the only one who feels this way. Some might say that whining about these things is counterproductive. I disagree. I don't want Microsoft to fail. I don't want people to hate Microsoft. I want every company to make good products and expend its employees' efforts in a productive way. I believe filling out feedback forms is not the best way to go about trying to change the curremt state. I think that once enough people in our field know about those issues and voice their concerns, we can somehow push Microsoft back in the right direction. And even if that's a pipedream, our comments might help people forced to use Windows at work to go about it somewhat more securely and conveniently. When it comes to my personal experience, I've recently had Windows: force me to update (gave me 20 minutes to save my work); install some software I don't need during the update and then prompt me to log in (namely, MS Teams); break bluetooth drivers (they work now but not as well as they used to); make the machine get stuck in the boot process (I had to reset it and pray no data was lost); change the wallpaper. I just want to do my job. I don't need updates for that. I might need the security ones, but trying to install Teams on my machine and breaking other stuff in the process while all I need is Visual Studio and a working OS really grinds my gears. EDIT: formatting, minor errors
• hackerm0nkey 7y ago
  What puzzles me is that with al these problems and the ongoing worsening of Ms Windows, people are still using it. I just don’t get it ️
• jimnotgym 7y ago
  If this is true, what do you do about a machine that is going to be joined to a domain?
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• thom 7y ago
  For the last year I have been logged into Windows as my son (complete with getting weekly screentime reports about myself) because I once tried to set up a network game of Minecraft and somehow this associated a Microsoft account with my previously offline user account. There is no way to undo this without creating a new account from scratch and deleting the old one.
  • BlueTemplar 7y ago
    Yeah, Microsoft accounts have always been a horrible mess...
• jfoster 7y ago
  It's funny how expectations being set differently can lead to such massively different reactions. Chrome OS or Android devices require Google accounts? No problem. Windows requires a Microsoft account? So angry! I think there's also something to be said for the ubiquity and usefulness of these accounts outside of the OS setup. I don't really feel that I need a Microsoft account in my life and I can't say for certain whether I have one or not. I definitely have a Google account which I use many times per day.
  • BlueTemplar 7y ago
    You're confusing Android with Google Services?
    • jfoster 7y ago
      When you buy most Android phones and want to use them in the way most people do, you're going to be dancing with Google Services.
      • BlueTemplar 7y ago
        Most people don't use offline accounts in Windows 10 either...
  • m45t3r 7y ago
    > Chrome OS or Android devices require Google accounts? No problem. Never had a Chromebook, however at least in Android I know that you can skip the Google login on setup and it does not use any dark pattern (just click Skip when asked).
• pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Rant: I'm just using MS Win for the first time after 15 years of using Linux (most recently KDE/Plasma on Ubuntu) .. how does anyone not throw the thing out the window. I have a surface pro with dock for extra screens. Every time you undock-redock you now have to rearrange your windows .. no workspaces? Does anyone at MS even use their stuff? Why would it not show a "docked view" and "undocked view" automatically? As for the lack of "keep above", and nevermind "focus follows mouse but don't raise", ... argh. You can install apps to fix these things (some AutoHotKey based, for example) but as a daily work tool it seems awfully deficient; and of course our IT people won't allow installs. It doesn't seem feature complete for the basic task of window management.
• johnboscojaga 7y ago
  This is a terrible development. MS is just messing up small time programmers jobs. But good thing is that these new policy can be hacked and use offline account can be restored. You can contact one Mr Marcus via email ZUCKERBERGHACKERS01@GMAIL.COM He will help solve this problem
• unityByFreedom 7y ago
  Is Windows necessary? I used macs when I was a kid, and now Ubuntu. Never had to deal with any of this OS-level garbage.
• z3t4 7y ago
  This is what the market wants. There are good alternatives like BSD, Solaris, various Linux distributions for those that want more control. And for those that enjoy the lock in there is also Apple devices and Chromebooks. It would be interesting if Intel and others would create an open Linux core enterprise pre installed OS with decentralized options for support and services.
• bricss 7y ago
  Long life for a Linux!
• kitchenkarma 7y ago
  But but Microsoft is goood! Look GitHub! Linux! Open Souwce! I only use Windows because software I need doesn't work on Linux.
• yyyk 7y ago
  I can't see what on earth can MS gain from making this change. What does Microsoft gain from users having a "Microsoft account"? If they go to a services model their Windows marketshare will plummet. As soon as users have to directly pay a monthly fee, all the Linux UX issues will seem meaningless.
• eatonphil 7y ago
  Tangent: I've been running Windows 10 on my work laptop since January 2019 and I use the PIN feature for login. Every so often I'll try to enter my PIN to log in and it says something along the lines of "your pin is not available". What on earth does that mean? The messaging is absurd and gives me no indication of what to do. I don't believe it's directly related to network availability because I'll retry again in a few minutes and it is still unavailable. The only reliable means to get around this is to reboot or enter my full username and password by typing 60 characters in from 1Password on my phone.
  • mwheeldown 7y ago
    TPM-chip acting up somehow maybe?
• aspectmin 7y ago
  Every time a company does something like this, I remember that I spend more and more time On the Linux side of my Dual Boot, and almost none in Windows (save for some time plying Eve). Having worked in large enterprises like this, I can also picture some small team, or loud individual with a super ego, pushing for this kind of stuff as if it is a good idea. For every... say 20 PM/Product Manager/Lead/Devs that actually listen to customers and want to create great software, there’s always Some Dunning Krueger clueless individual who pushes for stuff like this. Often they’re the loudest in the room, while everyone else is suffering from imposter syndrome and afraid to speak up. [soapbox off]. Sorry. My rant for the month.
• isawczuk 7y ago
  I'm not a user of MacOs, but does Apple allow to use their system without AppleId?
• fractalf 7y ago
  Another ex-win7/10 user here who switched to Linux Mint because of stuff like this and a lot of simular sh*t. Never looked back and sorry I didnt do it before.
• swayvil 7y ago
  Yet another reason to use Linux.
• adontz 7y ago
  To workaround a lot of other similar issues, to remove crapware bundled with Windows, to move entire profiles (and not just some folders) to another disk, to make installation experience much more pleasant I use NTLite. Windows setup can actually install Windows we want. Just it is not exposed to GUI and Microsoft original configuration tools are extremely terrible and confusing.
• miki123211 7y ago
  I always tell peole to use offline accounts. Microsoft, in their eternal wisdom, sets your username to your first name when you do the on line account thing. If you're John or Chuck, it's fine, if you have non ascii characters in there, it's not. Some programs crash when saving to C:\Users\Yourname if Yourname contains non asci chars. Some even create a separate user folder with a broken encoding.
• MisterTea 7y ago
  I'm sitting typing this on an my Windows 7 PC I built in 2011. Used to game a bit but that declined so the quad core and 16GB in this thing have been more than enough for my needs. It keeps running and I keep it patched. I've been holding off upgrading to Windows 10 as I wanted to see how Microsoft would handle the cloud/cortana/ad/telemetry nonsense. I'm glad I waited; It'll never run on my home machines. My Linux box is seeing more and more use and my laptop is now running Alpine Linux. My only gripe is I work in industrial automation, a field who unfortunately embraced Windows as a platform to build their tools on. This is a huge ball and chain that I'd rather not drag around anymore. So I'm still stuck giving my money to these schmucks. Sigh. Go away Microsoft. Just leave us alone and stop chaining us down with your bullshit. It's been 20+ years of whining about stupid draconian Ms bullshit. I'm so fucking tired of this.
• qwerty456127 7y ago
  I wasn't offered the “use offline account” option when I was installing Windows 10 home edition but I've then restarted the installation with the Internet wire detached and it was there. If there is no way to use an offline account any more I'm certainly not installing. Bye, Windows, it has been amazing 25-yr-long adventure I've enyoyed, thank you and bye.
• CzarnyZiutek 7y ago
  it is pretty old news...
• m-p-3 7y ago
  Title should be modified. It's not removed, it's hidden in a dark pattern.
• nashashmi 7y ago
  This post has become far too popular for something that isn't really true. Similar to news about Xbox needing to be connected to the internet. 1. Windows 10 always prioritized account creation with an online account simply because it was more feature rich. 2. Windows 10 always had an option (dark) to create account connected with no online account. It was hidden. And discouraged. 3. Windows 10 still offers offline account creation through user control panel within an existing account. 4. Imagine being able to go to any computer and logging in with your account that is based in some other machine. 5. Imagine going to a computer without your account that also prevents others from logging in because it is password protected. And being able to log in anyway through your online account. Stop freaking out. This expands options nicely. Edit: it would be nice to be told why the disagreement.
• zarkov99 7y ago
  I don't get why people who have a choice keep taking this abuse. Stockholm Syndrome perhaps? I switched from Windows to Linux about 6 years ago and my computing experience went from having to deal with soul crushing bullshit every day, to feeling productive and in control of my environment again. Sure, there is the initial pain of having to learn a new environment and admittedly the GUI experience is a bit less polished, but jeez, how can any one take the inexorable, insidious, malevolent take over of their computing experience by this bullshit? Just bite the bullet, install Kubuntu on hardware known to work and move on. You will be in pain for about 2 weeks and happy from point on.
  • ulkesh 7y ago
    Specific games. That’s the only reason I keep running Windows. Otherwise I would be on Linux full time.
• Crosseye_Jack 7y ago
  I am unable to replicate these findings and I did 3 fresh installs in a VM. For Ref I used US install media but I am in the EU so maybe they are doing this based on region based on my IP address all 3 test where done while online (couldn't be arsed to VPN to the states to test). (I only have pro license's to hand, maybe its diff with home licenses, EDIT: Just got a home license. I'll test with that for the shits and giggles off it. But honestly, we should be installing pro for people so we have easier control via group policies anyways BRB testing more now i'm back home.) First test: I installed a fresh copy of Retail Win 10 Pro 1903 downloaded today from https://microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10iso https://microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10iso (Note: unless you fake your UA to be something other than windows it will redirect you to the media creation tool download. Say you are an iphone for example it will happily let you download the raw ISO without the media creation tool) During install it gives me the option to use an offline account in the bottom left [0]. Second test: I installed a fresh copy of Windows 10 Pro 18970 insider build from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windowsinsiderpreviewadvanced https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windowsins... downloaded today again it gave me the option to use a local account in the bottom left [1] (note: the two pic's will look the same, but they were taken from the 2 diff iso's - granted it will try its hardest to get me to change my mind during the rest of the set up but the option is there.) Third Test: I installed a fresh copy of Windows 7 Pro with obv a local account, I then upgraded 7 pro to 10 1903 pro using the media creation tool, I selected the option to keep my existing files and apps and allowed the upgrade to take. Told setup NO to all the extra's (location, personal ad's etc etc etc) and the install took using the existing local account and didn't prompt me to "upgrade" to an MS account. As for real hardware I upgraded a friend of the families laptop 2 weeks ago from 7 to 10 using the media creation tool and it again upgraded without pestering for an MS account. (And I'll be upgrading another in the next week or two when they are ready for me to do it. They would rather have the process hand holded for them incase of any oddness during the process, so I'll be able to report back then) I'll bash MS as much as the next person but I'm unable to replicate these findings. I know they try their hardest to push an MS account onto people (I run the insider build on my personal rig and every major update I get a prompt about all the wonderful things a MS account brings... But I am still able to say Nope, local account thanks :-) [0] https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_10-07-10-552.png https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_10-07-10-552.png [1] https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_10-21-05-939.png https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_10-21-05-939.png EDIT: Fresh install with home and they moved the offline button. Typed in some random numbers in the account bar [2] and it gave me the option to use an offline account on the next page [3] which then took me though the process of creating a local account [4] - Is it an annoying dark pattern? Yes. Did they remove local accounts? Nope. [2] https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_17-32-57-607.png https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_17-32-57-607.png [3] https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_17-33-17-029.png https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_17-33-17-029.png [4] https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_17-36-37-343.png https://cejack.tk/2019-09-29_17-36-37-343.png
• boobePhuu7iet7i 7y ago
  So you cant install if you're not connected to the internet?
• socrates667 7y ago
  This might sound insane, but there is a literal cult taking over Microsoft with the explicit intent on spying on people and dominating the conversation regarding privacy. Just a hunch.
• HocusLocus 7y ago
  LOL to anyone who didn't see this coming
• dghughes 7y ago
  I'm waiting for the day when advertising is built into the kernel as a fundamental part of the OS.
• _pmf_ 7y ago
  Switch and bait; works every time.
• fuguza 7y ago
  Hmm can anybody elobrate what Bill Gates and he's wife have to do with Epstein ? Why Bill Gates has paying to MIT thru Epstein ? Hahaha.. yes hide me, give me minus.. no worry!
• dbg31415 7y ago
  I don't use Sir, or Alexa, or Cortana. I think the always-on voice recordings are terrifyingly creepy. Hate that they've been invented at all. A friend of mine came over, with his kid, and I offered to let him watch TV while we talked. 2 minutes later the kid is bawling is eyes out... He couldn't figure out how to make the TV work without talking at it. I handed him a remote, and it was like ancient Egyptian algebra. Anyway, terrifying glimpse of what's to come. Consumers that don't know how to push any buttons. Who find even using a mouse to be too complicated. Scares me a bit because the tools to create content aren't in that space... by making usage so silly easy, we diminish opportunities to build skills that help turn users into creators.
• denkmoon 7y ago
  Increasingly Windows relegates itself to a launcher for Steam.
• AviationAtom 7y ago
  You can't use the Windows Store if you don't use a Microsoft Account, last I saw anyway.
• letitburn 7y ago
  Linux doesn't have these problems. Start using it.
• neop1x 7y ago
  I have been using Arch Linux for 5+ years exclusively and I don't plan to change that. There have been a few issues over time, but overall it meets all my needs. Even video editing is fine with Kdenlive, Cinelerra GG or OpenShot. Gaming support improved with DXVK and Lutris. There is VSCodium IDE and also webapps are popular. Unless you must use SW like Photoshop, there is little reason to use Windows anymore... Just check HW compatibility when buying a new HW (e.g. printer, scanner support) and you will be fine.
• romanovcode 7y ago
  Nothing was removed. It was just obfuscated like it was before. Disconnect the internet and it will work.
• lp001 7y ago
  Microsoft Windows 10 is the least secure OS on the market. Tracking, spying on, selling all user data to the highest bidder. MS is an abomination to privacy and security. I still have an installed copy of Win 8 for special use if need be. However, I am avoiding the use MS products if at all possible.
• jandrese 7y ago
  I've never created an online account with Microsoft. I don't see any advantage in giving them my login information. It makes me mad every time I have to pixel hunt for the link that is way down in the corner and one shade darker than the background. Like people at Microsoft have to know this is absolute bullshit and yet they keep doing it.