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Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API
- w0mbat 7y agoVery confusing headline should be: Google Is Turning Off the "Works with Nest" API
- nikodunk 7y agoQ: What would you like to turn off in your Nest API Sandwich? A: The Works!
- marquis-chacha 7y agoIt's a "garden path sentence", but not in the fun way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bhhaskin 7y agoWait, so people that bought other devices that "Works with Nest" will no longer work with Nest?
- floatingatoll 7y agoCorrect: https://nest.com/whats-happening/#im-a-works-with-nest-developer-will-my-solution-still-be-able-to-access-and-control-nest-devices https://nest.com/whats-happening/#im-a-works-with-nest-devel...
- bhhaskin 7y agoAnother reminder to never buy a "smart" device. At the end of the day they are pretty dumb.
- Robotbeat 7y agoUnless you roll your own. But then we’re in the bad old days of home automation just for tinkerers...
- dreamcompiler 7y agoI have lost all hope that it will ever be otherwise. It's quite straightforward to build smart home devices for youself that are reliable and don't depend on the whims of some cloud or firmware vendor, but the minute you try to form a company that sells them you'll be required to generate a continuing revenue stream which means shitting on your customers in one way or the other.
- Robotbeat 7y agoIs this true? I’ve used open source printers from Lulzbot and others, and I haven’t had this experience. I think the moral of the story is to not put stuff on some closed platform in the cloud, not that you shouldn’t use company-provided hardware.
- cortesoft 7y agoI think his point was that it is hard to keep a company going making just the hardware. The margins are low, and customers only have to pay you once, to get the hardware. It is hard to make a lasting business off that, which is why everyone wants to do subscription services.
- TeMPOraL 7y agoIt used to be the only way to make business in not so long past. People made money selling products just fine. Maybe it's because people trying to get rich quick playing the VC lottery are sucking the oxygen out for people who want to just do a honest to God, "payment in exchange for providing value" type of business.
- telltruth 7y agoI realize this is Google's moment of "Plays for Sure".
- leshokunin 7y agoWhat's the point of creating an ecosystem if you won't support it? Typical Google. I understand shutting down or refocusing services that don't work. But decisions like this or to shut down Inbox make no sense to me. It feels like complete disregard of the user base.
- chadlavi 7y agoThey care for their user base. Their user base just isn't us people using their services.
- RobertRoberts 7y agoAt some point there has to be a value in marketing for keeping people happy, right? At least mothball upgrades and leave this running "slowly" or _anything_ other than just shut everything down for reasons... My daughter wrote a letter to a clothing manufacturer about how the embroidered lettering was falling apart on a brand name shirt. They sent her a new one, for free. That is good marketing. What Google is doing? Slowly turning their brand into the "don't trust us with anything long term" brand.
- ucaetano 7y ago> At some point there has to be a value in marketing for keeping people happy, right? Not a lot of value in keeping HN people happy. We're too small of a user niche but too big of complainers.
- dreamcompiler 7y agoThat clothing manufacturer doesn't have a billion daily users who will use them regardless of how evil they are.
- cannonedhamster 7y agoNo but Microsoft used to be untouchable too. They've come back a bit under Nadella who seems to understand why people use his product. I never thought I'd see the day where I trusted MS more than Google but wow has Google just become a scummy, unreliable company since Alphabet.
- stevespang 7y agoOr they all spy on you, so they can sell your data . . .
- apocalyptic0n3 7y agoIFTTT sent out an email about an hour ago warning of the pending shutdown of their integration.
- 4rt 7y agoheadline should be "that $300 doorbell is now a paperweight". in the future it will be "that $8000 trunk car driving computer is now a paperweight".
- ayakura 7y agoThat would be a very large piece of paper!
- plttn 7y agoNest hardware will still work just fine? I'm not sure where you're drawing the conclusion that the Nest Hello no longer works.
- Rebelgecko 7y agoNot sure about the "Hello" but this sucks for people that take advantage of their thermostat API. The hardware still works but the way I use it won't any more.
- pugworthy 7y agoPretty much straight up FUD. This is not bricking Nest devices.
- Aeolun 7y agoOk, more like “That remotely controlled car with integrated taxi service you bought?” Well, now it’s “Just a car”
- cthalupa 7y agoFor anyone using SmartThings, HomeAssistant, Hubitat, IFTT, etc., it is removing huge amounts of functionality. I've been very happy in general that I switched to ecobee when I moved, and this made me even happier.
- Phlarp 7y agoHey, at least they are going to roll "Nest" accounts into "Google" accounts so hopefully the app can stop asking me to set up sms based 2fa everytime I try to change the temp. All that employee stock from the acquisition must be finished vesting.
- shereadsthenews 7y agoYeah, I welcome this change. Nest's account management is garbage. It alerts me when a smoke alarm fires, but then it asks me to login, as if I have any idea what the password is.
- richev 7y agoSo my Nest app[1] that has 1800+ registered users will stop working in August. :'( [1] https://richev.me/nest https://richev.me/nest
- ars 7y agoCan you switch it to Works with Google Assistant and get the same data?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- richev 7y agoThat's a good question - and I'm not sure. I created my app when I had a Nest thermostat and was working from home. The thermostat would assume that no-one was at home during the day - and so turn off the heating - as I didn't walk past it often enough, so the original purpose of the app was just to detect when I was actively using my PC, and ping the thermostat not to go into "Away" mode. It was then really rewarding to add more features and make the app available for others to use. I got some lovely feedback and sensible feature requests via email, and one user generously did a French translation of the UI. I even got a small number of $€£s in Paypal donations! However. I no longer have a Nest thermostat (moved to Australia, where they're not available), no longer work from home, and now have a young son. So I have to admit that prioritising the time & finding the motivation to rework the app to work against a different set of APIs (if even possible) may be hard to come by.
- pugworthy 7y agoLook not to be blunt, but 1800 users? Why should they care? I'm being a devils advocate, but ... if you were at Google and a person making large business decisions, why would you care about 1800 users?
- sdinsn 7y agoBecause having an open API fosters a community of applications that is free marketing and free development for your product. Nest products are expensive, those 1800 users may equate to a few hundred thousand in revenue for Google, who may instead buy a competitor for their next purchase.
- gergles 7y ago> I’m a Works with Nest developer. Will I be able to access and control Nest devices moving forward? > No. The Actions on Google Smart Home platform does not provide open API access to Nest devices, so it cannot be used to access and control Nest devices. Instead, managing and controlling Google Home, Nest, and thousands of third-party smart home devices is done through the Google Home app and the Google Assistant. Wow, just wow. The entire non-Google Nest ecosystem evaporates overnight.
- dotBen 7y agoYup, they just did a Twitter. I lived through the Twitter ecosystem collapse and now I'm a VC I worry about investing in startups that are built on any large ecosystem where there isn't an alignment of clear economic interest. Google of all people doing this just made it tougher for everyone else to maintain confidence in large vendor platforms.
- itsaidpens 7y agoNo one should have expected Google to maintain focus on anything.
- Gibbon1 7y agoMicrosoft: embrace extend extinguish Google: Hold my Kombucha!
- Gibbon1 7y ago> Yup, they just did a Twitter. You misspelled Sauron. One app to rule them all, One app to find them, One app to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
- zmmmmm 7y agoWell, the good news is that Google is kind of outing itself as a true outlier in that space. They clearly do not care at all about hurting developers that build on their platforms and there is enough daylight between them and other large tech companies on this that you probably don't need to extrapolate from Google to the entire tech world. Makes me sad to say it as someone who has often defended Google in the past, but I can't on this.
- systemBuilder 7y agoI am turning off my future purchases of Google Nest products.
- alasdair_ 7y agoMe too. I was literally just looking at them, since I wanted to hook up a smart thermostat with my motorized blinds (close blinds in summer when temperature is > X) and was planning on buying one this month, but no longer.
- pugworthy 7y agoWhy exactly? How does this decision impact you personally?
- johnwheeler 7y agoYou keep repeating this in your comments like a broken record. What do _you_ care that people care? People obviously do care or they wouldn’t be voicing on HN? Why does that bother you so much?
- pugworthy 7y agoBecause I believe many of the responses are irrational, and not expressing what the actual underlying feelings are of the commenters. People are upset that there is a reduction in the openness of things, which I understand. People are upset that their personal projects and home hacks will stop working, which I understand. They should just state that though, and not the "That's it I'm never buying Nest again" type of angry response. If you want to hack your home, there are many open source alternatives.
- parrellel 7y agoIf you're dumping 2-3 hundred dollars on a thermostat, and suddenly it starts losing functionality, not buying another one makes a bit of sense. Or, relatedly, do you think all those labs that bought PS3's for their ability to act as Linux clusters were wrong to sue the hell out of Sony?
- ars 7y agoThis makes it seem like you would have to use the "Works with Google Assistant" API's instead? i.e. rather than completely not available, there's a new platform? Don't know about either API to know if that's the case, but it's what the page implies?
- cthalupa 7y agoIt's a significantly smaller subset of APIs leaving you with far less control.
- joenathanone 7y agoCan I return my Nest for a refund? This is so stupid.
- pugworthy 7y agoHow does this impact you personally?
- joenathanone 7y agoI have automations setup with Smartthings to control my termostat. I wouldn't have purchased the Nest if it wasn't compatible with Smartthings.
- Rebelgecko 7y agoI sent a message to their support about ten minutes ago asking for a refund, and their chat has been stuck on "The Agent is typing" since I asked.
- McDev 7y agoI contacted one of their support guys, eventually I was put through to a senior agent. After I quoted a bunch of consumer laws (at least here in the UK) he was adamant that their terms of services lets them change features as they wish so legal action is definitely going to be the only way forward. From the follow up email: "Any product feature can be changed at Nests discretion under the terms terms of service. It is for this reason that I cannot refund the cost of your thermostat."
- amanzi 7y agoIf a developer has gone to the effort to integrate their solution with Nest, I'd be very surprised if they don't get their solution integrated with Google Assistant, and Apple HomeKit too while they're at it. So I assume that when end-users switch over their Nest devices to the Google Assistant platform, their existing Nest integrations will be available on the Google Assistant platform too. Doesn't appear to be as doom and gloom as most other commenters here are predicting.
- Klathmon 7y agoI believe the kind of Google Assistant integration you would need to replicate this kind of access is impossible in publicly available APIs currently. Google has much more integration capabilities, but they seem to be this far "invite only", you can't request it.
- saulrh 7y agoSo... The functionality exists and is currently in testing, it's only just become stable enough that we're hearing about it, and they're notifying developers targeting the current service as far ahead of time as possible? I mean, it won't do anything for stuff that's too crappy to take software updates, but that's an entirely different matter. Edit: Finally went and read the announcement. They're really not giving people much time, are they? Nevermind, three months is pretty bad.
- IshKebab 7y agoNo, this isn't a case of moving functionality from Nest to Google. They've removed the Nest API ("set the temperature", "set to away", "what's the temperature?"). They say "move to Google Assistant" but Google Assistant doesn't let you do that. Also - I could sort of understand it if they provided a proper IFTTT style system in Google Home but they don't. All you can do is trigger actions based on a custom voice command or a time.
- cortesoft 7y agoThe FAQ seems to say that isn't the case... the google system does not provide any API to actually control the nest devices, or at least not directly, which is likely required for a lot of the functionality third parties provided.
- mherdeg 7y agoDoes the Nest thermostat product still have an active firmware / hardware / software team? It feels like various features have been kind of frozen in place for the past few years.
- jimktrains2 7y agoThis is why we need to be pushing for devices that use open protocols at the very least. (Ideally they'd be fully open devices.) It saddens me to see people buy into IoT and not think about the vendor lock-in or data exfiltration. The thing is, there really aren't any alternatives.
- snaky 7y agoWould be great, but how could we push it to the average Joe?
- Andrex 7y agoAt the very least, the fact that the upcoming Nest Hub Max supports Thread is a (small) step in the right direction.
- jimktrains2 7y agoWhat is thread? That's a very unsearchable term.
- palebluedot 7y agoThis seems to include all of us using them in open-source "hobbyist" environments, like Home Assistant and Node-Red. I'm quite frustrated by this; I'll never buy another Nest product again, and I now regret my purchase of the Nest Thermostat. All the rest of my IoT stuff is either open-source hardware/software, or at the least local-only with known protocol interfaces. This was the one exception I made for IoT "cloud", giving Google the benefit of the doubt. I regret deeply giving them that benefit now.
- altec3 7y agoI'm using a Nest with Homebridge to expose it to Homekit. Didn't want to purchase one due to the reliance on the cloud and lack of Homekit support. After months of waffling I gave in and got one. I also regret that decision now too. Last Nest purchase I will ever make.
- ocdtrekkie 7y agoThe month Google originally bought Nest, I sold my thermostat to someone else and picked up an Insteon thermostat instead. My Insteon thermostat's been a reliable partner since, and doesn't send my data to anyone. I actually turned a profit on it, since I got rebate credit from my electric company originally for buying it.
- dehrmann 7y agoMy gripe is the design is nowhere near as good. It's like going from an iPhone to a feature phone. I wish there were an open-source Nest firmware, or at least an open-source backend. Google doesn't need to know when I'm home.
- dreamcompiler 7y agoNest screwed the pooch with me before Google bought them by changing their UI and temporarily bricking my thermostat with unwanted firmware updates. (My Nest still works as a dumb thermostat but I'll never let it talk to the Internet again.) When Google bought them I knew Nest would only get worse, and here we are.
- dingo_bat 7y agoMakes me happy I didn't buy a Google home. What's the guarantee they won't do this for home compatible devices at a later date, to move to another new ecosystem?
- GiorgioG 7y agoMan, Google is the new Microsoft of the 90s. Fuck them. I have 3 Nest thermostats (bought prior to the Nest acquisition.)
- gboudrias 7y agoReally curious how shutting down every service works as a business model.
- yellow_postit 7y agoThese services aren't Google's business model of Ads.
- izacus 7y agoProbably better than keeping products that lose money around?
- dragonwriter 7y ago> Really curious how shutting down every service works as a business model They don't shut down every service, just ones that aren't performant from a business perspective. Which, I would think, works pretty well as a business model.
- Rexxar 7y agoNo. There is a lot of reasons to criticize Microsoft but they keep their services/apis alive longer than any other company.
- electrograv 7y agoI see Google API/ecosystem fans often defending or dismissing Google’s pattern of behavior here, using arguments like this: “Well, sure, they shut down that API I don’t use — big deal; all things come to an end eventually! But, they’d NEVER do that to this API I rely on — that would be so horrible, Google just would not do it!” I hope we all can acknowledge that this argument is on perpetually eroding ground, at the very least.
- saagarjha 7y agoSeems like a variant of the “first they came for” argument.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kd0amg 7y agoFirst they came for Google Wave, and I did not speak out—Because I never really understood what Wave was to begin with. Then they came for Google+, and I did not speak out—Because almost all the people I want life updates from are on Facebook. Then they came for Google Reader, and I did not speak out—Because I never actually heard of Reader until years after it was eliminated. Maybe Reader was actually first? Then they came for Works with Nest, and I smugly said, "I told you so"—Because I always thought it was a bad idea to expose my thermostat to the internet. Finally, they game for GMail—and I couldn't contact anyone who might speak out for me.
- sexyflanders 7y agoLooking forward to when google turns off their corporate headquarters.
- awestley 7y agoI guess all my nest stuff is going ebay... Too bad.
- quickthrower2 7y agoSell to the greater fool?
- awestley 7y agoI'm going to try!
- quickthrower2 7y agoOn a serious note I hope someone can buy it and hack it to work with some API, otherwise it's more landfill.
- pugworthy 7y agoWhy? What have you lost?
- awestley 7y agoIntegrations. Loss of IFTTT would be enough. No doubt Alexa will follow.
- McDev 7y agoI would have rather put mine on a landfill but better someone takes mine off me than give more money to Google.
- jasonhansel 7y agoHonestly, I think that IoT manufacturers should be required to provide open APIs. Preventing third-party developers from interfacing with smart devices, especially after they've already been sold to consumers, seems dangerously monopolistic.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jasonhansel 7y agoTo be clear: I want a legal requirement. Like any industry that has vastly expanded in power and societal influence, the tech industry may ultimately need to be regulated for the greater good.
- pugworthy 7y agoHow many things use that API?
- hello_asdf 7y agoI do. I have a command line nest app that I use to control my temperature.
- pugworthy 7y agoSo a personal project then, not a commercial one. My guess is they just lost a new customer with you. The root of my question though is this: Is most API use a hobby thing, or a professional thing businesses are build around? My assumption here is that the financial impact is trivial for them. They aren't Valve ending Half-Life modding for example. If that's not a clear analogy, Valve's enabling of modding for Half-Life enabled Counter Strike, which basically kept Valve alive so they could become what they are now.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- nitrogen 7y agoI haven't been involved in the home automation industry for a while, but if there were any integrations that used this API from DIY or commercial platforms like Homeseer, Control4, Crestron, AMX, or dozens of others, those will no longer work. There are lots of mostly invisible companies selling high-end automation that don't need to advertise so you'll never have heard of them. It's not just hobbyists that build this stuff.
- epc 7y agoNest's income/expense is likely a rounding error on the Google balance sheet. Killing off the Nest developer ecosystem is a choice, not driven by any economics. I have eight Nest thermostats across two homes, and a pile of Nest cameras. My "hobbyist" use of the APIs collects and aggregates some of the data together since the Nest UI (web or mobile) is lousy at best. Given that Google Home / Google Assistant do not work* with my G Suite account, I'm not at all confident about continuing to use Nest equipment after the grand changeover to Google Home Assistant Whatever in August. * By "do not work" I mean: You log in to a Google Home device with a G Suite account and it (the device) cannot be shared with any other accounts, and it cannot access any of your data like your calendar. Oddly Alexa has no difficulties accessing my G Suite calendar.
- mherdeg 7y agoHey, so how do I graph the temperature of my house at each temperature sensor over time? I knew how to do that with the Nest API (see e.g. https://github.com/peterot/nest-graph https://github.com/peterot/nest-graph or https://github.com/nbrownus/nestflux https://github.com/nbrownus/nestflux ). These data provide some useful information about energy expenditure in the house, a little better than the Nest "schedule" view of daily heating/cooling activity and daily temperature settings. Will this still be possible with the new indirect Google Assistant API integration they are describing? How?
- pugworthy 7y agoLots of little tiny cheap ESP8266 based systems with DS18S20 temp sensors all over your house, telling you far more than just a single Nest thermostat could tell you. Look into low power sleep modes, so that it can run for a very long time, waking up at some interval to take a quick temperature measurement, report it, then go back to sleep. While you're at it, have it confirm its battery level and report that too if the battery is low.
- maimeowmeow 7y agoYou must not have really needed such a feature. /s
- HillRat 7y agoSo now all Nest accounts have to go through Google. Can’t wait for the first time some Android developer gets their Google account locked and suddenly can’t change the temperature on their HVAC unit.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- dawnerd 7y agoOr that people using Gsuite wont be able to perform certain actions because ... reasons? My Google home hub is still pretty useless since they don't allow some features.
- imglorp 7y agoAnother entry for https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/
- est 7y agoSome years later: Google shuts down Nest.
- caterama 7y agoDisclaimer: I own no Smart Home devices. Under the FAQ, I was not able to find an entry like "Will I be able to reach a human about my Nest devices / services?". That's a bit scary. Not sure if that was possible before though. But, considering the occasional horror story of what happens when you get locked out of a Google account, I wonder what the impact will be having a Nest integrated with that.
- andrewtbham 7y agoAnyone know a good replacement for a nest cam?
- lwhalen 7y agoUbiquiti is great. They make cloud integration easy if you want it, or self hosted as well.
- cthalupa 7y agoI have thousands of dollars of Ubiquiti gear in my house, but I opted for Ring cameras instead. Primarily because, even though I have plenty of storage space for an NVR, I don't want to rely on thieves not stealing the thing if they break in, thus leaving me with no footage. It would be easy enough to constantly back the data up to a different location, I suppose, but not something I wanted to bother with. They also integrate pretty well with the Ring alarm system, and the $10/mo I pay for monitoring alarm service for burglary and smoke/co2 detectors I have also covers the storage cost for multiple cameras, etc. I just picked up a smart lock that will supposedly get additional integration later this year, and be able to disarm the alarm system automatically when it's unlocked. (This functionality already exists for some other smart lock options)
- diogenescynic 7y agoRing.
- taneq 7y agoGoogle doesn't care about individual people. Scale is fun! >.>
- ljoshua 7y agoSo let's talk alternatives. EcoBee? Honeywell? What's the suggested alternate device and route for those of us that like a little control, like having other services that can integrate, and don't want to be yanked around by shutdowns?
- jmuguy 7y agoI would recommend Ecobee but their status page has looked like a Christmas tree lately. Hours long outages, every day, for days in a row.
- mikestew 7y agoEcoBee is what I bought when the writing was on the wall with Nest. Works with HomeKit, so EcoBee could go under tomorrow and Apple stuff can still talk to it. Or if an open solution is more to your liking, works with Home Assistant, too, though it goes through the API to work.
- pugworthy 7y agoCheck out open source things. Some listed at https://www.hackster.io/projects/tags/thermostat https://www.hackster.io/projects/tags/thermostat
- oliyoung 7y agoAny ZigBee thermostats should work with Alexa and HomeKit
- bloopernova 7y agoI have an ecobee, it seems to work pretty well, and has definitely saved us money on heating and cooling costs since we bought it. As for automation and APIs to control it, generally we only use the Android app, but we have linked the ecobee to the Google Home app. I haven't yet tried to add it to the Mozilla webthings server running on our Retropie. We only have a 2 bedroom apartment, so our scope for lots of automation is somewhat less than if we owned our own home.
- drbytes 7y agoEcobee it seems. Until they are acquired by google and then rinse&repeat.
- mc32 7y agoI used to be a fan of Google. They were the good ones, the open ones. Ha! I’ve feel like they played the long sucker game. How times have changed. Even Android feels like a ruse. And Chrome. And maps. The last thing will be search. At some point it’ll be curated for my own good. To be fair, Everyone has to make a living, but be honest don’t take people for suckers of make them into suckers.
- hyeonwho4 7y agoIt feels like Google search is already curated. At home I cannot find academic articles which appeared in the search at work, because my girlfriend trained the home's recommendation engine on searches for cute cat pictures and domestic things. In DuckDuckGo, at least I know I will be able to find the same results for the same search terms no matter where I am.
- ImprovedSilence 7y agoWow, I agree. Lately I've noticed search sometimes just pops in websites just because I visited it from a previous search, relevancy be damned! and it suuuuuucks.
- mcv 7y agoI seem to be able to find a much more limited selection of content than I used to in the past. It used to be that even obscure search queries turned up something useful, but now you either get nothing or the same old big or commercial sites. There has to be tons of content out there that Google just can't seem to find anymore.
- moccachino 7y agoThere was a discussion about exactly that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19604135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19604135 Ironically I could not find this link via DDG, but it was the first hit on Google.
- jredwards 7y agoLiterally bought a nest thermostat yesterday. Glad it's still in the box. Wondering what the best alternative is now.
- reificator 7y agoHadn't set mine up yet, but I did take it out of the box. Time to pack it back up and return it.
- rs23296008n1 7y agoDefective by design.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 7y agoEcobee!
- Shelnutt2 7y agoSecond, my ecobee3 is great.
- bloopernova 7y agoseconding ecobee.
- SkyPuncher 7y agoEcobee. Pretty sure ours paid for itself within 4 months. If you have two-story house, the remote sensor is incredible for keeping the space you're in comfortable.
- hedora 7y agoI like my ecobee. The middle priced one seems best. The cheap one doesn't support per room sensors, and the expensive one adds a mic for alexa.
- danols 7y agoIf you build a business around a Google CONSUMER device/service/api/whatever at this stage you are a fool.
- pugworthy 7y agoThe level of non-rational FUD posting on this comment thread is astounding.
- rkochman 7y ago“Alexa, tell Google to turn up the heat”
- pgt 7y agoI don’t want to work at a place where my projects will get shut down.
- Rebelgecko 7y agoAs someone who uses Home Assistant to keep some level of control over my data, this sucks.
- herf 7y agoAnyone know if Alexa is their biggest Nest API client? That's one way to shut out Amazon.
- URSpider94 7y agoYeah, that is the most likely explanation. Everyone else is just collateral damage.
- pugworthy 7y agoIf you're looking for a replacement, try starting here... https://www.hackster.io/projects/tags/thermostat https://www.hackster.io/projects/tags/thermostat Plenty of people have worked on open source / open hardware thermostat systems. Take your anger at this and apply it to them.
- cwarrior 7y agoecobee
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- qaq 7y agoSo the only huge company not royally screwing over their dev ecosystem is MS?
- Causality1 7y agoIf you're even slightly surprised by this you weren't paying attention when Google bought the Revolv smart home ecosystem then took it out back and shot it. All the customers got when their expensive smart home devices shut down was a "Thanks for playing, here's a coupon for saving when you buy a Nest because we just turned off all your shit". Google is a company with severe ADHD. Consumers expect home appliances to operate for decades. That is not a good mixture. If the whole "internet of things" trend dies out and people stop buying, you bet your ass Google will happily shut Nest's servers down and leave every single one of their customers out in the cold. They've already done it. I've got friends with home automation systems from the early 80s. They work flawlessly. You think any service or device Google sells will be functioning in twenty years? Thirty? Call me when IBM is offering a smart hub.
- fooey 7y agoWhen Lowes shut down their IRIS system, they actually sent out checks refunding every cent all of their customers had paid out into their hardware. I was completely shocked I haven't found a replacement for them yet, but I'm incredibly wary of investing into any ecosystem these days.
- Causality1 7y agoI'll trust a smart outlet to cut my AC on for me. I'll even trust a wi-fi security camera aimed at my front yard. However, my corpse will be in the cold, cold ground before I hook a door or an oven up to the internet.
- rs23296008n1 7y agoI doubt most new IoT will be functional in 5 years. They have an app mentality with everything locked up in that app. No API. I look at a lot of products now and if I find I can't access it via python then I treat it as pre-landfill and don't even consider it worth purchasing.
- Zarath 7y agoHardware as a service is the new normal. This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. "Smart" hardware means you're leasing it and will be changed at will or it gets bricked.
- michrassena 7y agoI wonder if it's time to re-evaluate the concept of "not invented here". Services that exist at another company's pleasure aren't a platform to build a business on. This is effectively a type a single sourcing. There are no contractual obligations to you on the part of the service provider, and tremendous leverage to undermine you if you ever get big enough to get noticed.
- inlined 7y agoJust to be clear: is this confirmed to mean that Alexa will no longer integrate with Nest?
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y agoQuestions I won't get answers to, but about which I'm curious anyway: 1. How many end-users are affected? 2. How many devs are affected? 3. What is the annual transaction volume that is affected? Depending on the magnitude of the answers to these questions, I can see turning this API off being either a good thing or a bad thing. If hundreds of users are affected, well. Sad, but sometimes unpopular things get turned off. If hundreds of thousands of users are affected, this is an eyebrow-raising decision. Developers are also important, but less so than users. It would be nice to keep the lights on just to let people tinker, but that same openness creates security risks and costs money. Many on this site praise Apple when they make restrictive decisions that harm devs, as long as those decisions are justified in terms of end-user privacy and security. I think the transaction volume question gets at the heart of the issue, at least for me. If there is a lot of economic activity here, that's a signal that user needs might not be accounted for in this decision, or at least are not its primary driver. On the other hand, if only $1M or $2M per year is changing hands in the affected part of the ecosystem, well . . . again, nothing lasts forever.
- URSpider94 7y agoThis will break the integrations with all leading Smart Home control platforms. Ones that come to mind: Insteon; Alexa; Smart Things; IFTTT. I’m sure there are many more I’m not thinking of. Google is making a bet that they can close their smart home ecosystem and drive customers into their walled garden, instead of out.
- cthalupa 7y agoThis is the API that Alexa integration works through, so I imagine it is a pretty large number.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- inlined 7y agoDoes any attorney want to speculate whether Google could be forced to accept returns on Nest devices now that they’re materially worse through intentional actions?
- fenwick67 7y agoNot a lawyer but there was a successful* class action against Sony for removing Linux support. Customers could get $55 if they could prove* they used it, a low payout with a high burden of proof
- glogla 7y agoThey could, but then they would delete your Gmail and permanently ban you from their services, probably.
- inlined 7y agoRetaliation seems unwise as well
- lgleason 7y agoIt really feels like Google is starting to be forced to actually make money on things or get rid of them. With Nest that means sell more of their products and ecosystem instead of supporting everybody else...given last quarter's numbers etc. it looks like they may need to begin to focus on that, especially if the ad revenues continue to go down.
- joejerryronnie 7y agoAnd this is why Google will never be able to sell to the enterprise.
- rswail 7y agoThis is why Google will not be able to sell things not backed by an SLA and a contract to the enterprise. Guess what, GSuite and GC are covered by SLAs/contracts. But yes, this is a stupid move by Google, trying to lock out other controllers/apps. I have been looking at home automation and I want: a) open APIs b) security c) functionality Most offers/products don't even do c) very well.
- conradfr 7y agoThey did increase Google Map Apis prices a lot almost overnight though.
- tw04 7y agoCan't wait for them to tell me that Google Apps accounts aren't supported so I'll lose all access to my Nest devices... if that happens I'll be removing all of my Nest devices and selling my Google Home. I'm SO SICK of them acting like there needs to be a firewall between google apps accounts and everything else.
- glitch003 7y agoWell, Google Apps accounts are for businesses, so it makes sense that they wouldn't work like a personal account.
- codebook 7y agoWell, it was firstly advertised as free account with custom domain. I was one of many who created the account. and keep frustrating and maintaining another @gmail.com account for this reason.
- tw04 7y agoThat's not at all how it started. It started as a way to host your own domain for free and that's how they advertised and supported it. 10 years on they changed their mind but that's bullshit. I was your guinea pig so you could perfect the service for business users, now that you're done with that experiment you want to hang us all out to dry.
- asaph 7y agoWill the Nest Alexa skill still continue to work?
- IshKebab 7y agoI don't see how it could. Edit: actually the Nest skill seems to be provided by Nest, not Amazon. So as long as they don't remove it it should keep working.
- aspectmin 7y agoOkay. What should I replace my Nest thermostat and camera with? Recommendations appreciated.
- CriticalCathed 7y agoI was just about to upgrade my home with Nest products. The other alternative I was looking into looks much more attractive now. I wonder if this was about money, control, or developer resources? What's the upshot for them?
- ajmurmann 7y agoJust yesterday I started to look into building a tiny app that checks if the temperature in my two rooms that have a Nest is too hot or cold in one and OK in the other and just turn the fan on instead of heat/AC. And here we go...I guess I am not making that dumb "smart thermostat" ant smarter.
- outside1234 7y agoFuck you Tony Fadell!
- URSpider94 7y agoFor those who see this as Google turning off an unused service: no, just no. This is Google cutting off a massive interop ecosystem to try to parlay the success of Nest into higher adoption of Google Home. That’s vastly different than shutting down G+, Wave, Orkut, Reader, etc. It would be as if they announced tomorrow that the only way to read GMail is in Chrome browser or on an Android phone.
- abtinf 7y agoI think it’s very similar to shutting down Reader, which I’ve long believed was killed in a vain attempt to force adoption of G+.
- masklinn 7y ago> For those who see this as Google turning off an unused service: no, just no. This is Google cutting off a massive interop ecosystem to try to parlay the success of Nest into higher adoption of Google Home. That’s vastly different than shutting down G+, Wave, Orkut, Reader, etc. It's exactly the same as previous shutdowns, it's just that you didn't personally care about previous shutdowns and couldn't be arsed to emphasise or learn the lesson that google can not be trusted to keep services alive. The sharp folks are those like ocdtrekkie upthread who shed their nest immediately upon learning of the acquisition.
- Angostura 7y agoSince you claim its exactly the same as previous shutdowns listed; when Google shut down Wave, which paid for Google product were they aiming to increase adoption of?
- orcthwy012 7y agoIt's interesting to see the responses to this article and contrast with the responses to the article regarding Facebook's possible 5B fine. I don't know the motivation behind this decision but I can't help but see the two sides of the same coin. If we decide as a society that third-party apps misusing the platform in a way that hurts the users or otherwise looks bad to the outside world is the platform's fault, even if this was done with the user's consent (which the app that harvested data for Cambridge Analytica had) and furthermore decide that such conduct deserves a disproportionate fine (which 5B is, given that much larger breaches without any consent have generally gone unpunished) because the platform as a whole is owned by a large successful company, we cannot also expect large tech companies to keep supporting open platforms that allow third-parties to thrive. The economic benefits of giving control to the user are fairly marginal and theoretical, while the risks are extremely large and potentially existential. I'm not intimately familiar with this particular API, but it's almost certain that it can be abused by third party apps in a way that makes look Google bad. Platform openness has its advocates and detractors at every company. In light of what's going on, it would be hard for the advocates to win any argument.
- CaptainZapp 7y agowhich the app that harvested data for Cambridge Analytica had This is just part of the picture and almost revisionist in its briefness. Sure, they had "permission" from the user, which took that "personality-test" to harvest their data. Who sure as shit did not agree to have their data harvested were the friends of those who took the test and whoms data was harvested and resold with applomb and abandon. Leaving this part out of your statement makes this statement a lie by omission.
- makomk 7y agoThe thing is, that's clearly not what most people actually object to about Cambridge Analytica. I mean, the same is even more true of Obama's 2012 campaign, which went so far as to harvest their supporters' friends' posting activity to assess how best to get those friends to vote Obama, and yet nearly all of the people who loudly decried Cambridge Analytica used this same bogus consent argument to justify why the Obama campaign's actions were OK.
- jsilence 7y agoYet another reason why we need protocols and not APIs.
- diogenescynic 7y agoHonestly, this is so Google. They consistently abandon products and leave their customers hanging. I’ll never buy another product from them. This is a huge win for Amazon. Ring will get more customers and Nest will be abandoned.
- KukicAdnan 7y agoGoogle decides to unify APIs under a single IoT brand, thus shutting down redundant APIs. Google bad. Google maintaining multiple APIs that essentially do the same thing. Google bad. People are going to complain either way. I welcome this change personally and think it makes perfect business sense. I can't think of any Works with Nest that I have integrated in my home that's not already connected to my Google Home, so I don't really see this impacting many negatively.
- welly 7y agoGiven the comments in this post, I think people disagree with you. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that because you can't think of any integrations you personally use that it won't affect others.
- IshKebab 7y agoIt's not a redundant API. You can't access the Nest at all through Google Assistant's API.
- eyeareque 7y agoHow soon until google gets sued for the bait and switch? This reminds me of the Sony PlayStation Linux lawsuit: https://segmentnext.com/2016/06/21/sony-linux-lawsuit-ends-sony-will-pay-millions-gamers/ https://segmentnext.com/2016/06/21/sony-linux-lawsuit-ends-s...
- conradfr 7y agoRealistically is there any lawsuit that can make any dent in Google's profits?
- bryanrasmussen 7y agoEU law (because the EU seems to be the only one willing to make these big laws inconveniencing tech) - any IOT enabled product that has the IOT capabilities removed by closing of a service without a simple way for those capabilities to be re-enabled (simple being further clarified in law) can be returned for a full purchase refund up to 3 months after closing of the service.
- McDev 7y agoI'm interested in reading more about this, could someone provide more information on this law?
- remus 7y agoIt's not a law, bryan is suggesting it.
- Natanael_L 7y agoIt's basically derived from the requirement that product works as advertised + legal guarantee that the product remain working as advertised. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:31999L0044&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- PrimeDirective 7y agoI tried finding information on this, but couldn't. Could you provide links?
- bryanrasmussen 7y agosorry, I thought I was clear in suggesting it as a law - although realistically in a lot of EU countries you could make the case and get it returned. For example I'm in Denmark and we have a consumer ombudsmand were you can make complaints about violations of your rights as a consumer https://www.consumerombudsman.dk/about-us/ https://www.consumerombudsman.dk/about-us/ (it talks about marketing but I the Nest was marketed to have functionality it no longer has), in fact there may already be sort of an Ombudsmand ruling that pertains here https://www.consumerombudsman.dk/media/46530/2016-memorandum-consumers-liability-for-diminished-value.pdf https://www.consumerombudsman.dk/media/46530/2016-memorandum... which says you can return something after your normal right of return but you are liable for diminished value - so you would not get the full refund in this case but something. Of course I think that an actual complaint on this subject would result in a memorandum that you can get your full refund.
- raverbashing 7y agoSo "Works with Nest" is the G version of "Plays For Sure"? Funny how the more assertive the name the more likely it is to be dumped
- Addning 7y agohttps://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014512247253 https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014512247253
- crottypeter 7y agoReminds me of when nest 'bricked' revolv devices and migrated the users to nest. I am sticking with a non-IOT thermostat.
- marapuru 7y agoI wonder how big the "Works-with-Nest" ecosystem actually is. With that I don't mean the _potential_ size, but the actual size in terms of usage. Does anyone have a bit of insight in that? Maybe that could give more insight in the reasoning of Google to shut it down.
- sundvor 7y agoI read on The Verge that the Nest cameras will have their operating lights hardcoded to ON. They cite pervy privacy reasons, but bad luck for anyone using it as a baby monitor, through a glass window, etc.
- qubex 7y agoI went through the elaborate motions of setting up HomeBridge to make my pre-HomeKit Nest ecosystem inter operate with my Apple devices. Now they’ve gone and trashed it. I guess I’ll just replace all their devices and Google can go to hell.
- iask 7y agoAnd there went my love for Nest. I’ve been one of the earliest adopters...love the product. After they got acquired by Google I’ve been expecting this, however, not so soon. Time to start looking into an alternative - suggestions anyone?
- thefounder 7y agoWelcome to the "cloud" world! Google is pretty "windy" these days.
- crankylinuxuser 7y agoThanosWare At a click of a finger, half the features disappear!
- jonstewart 7y agoI bought two Nest thermostats this winter because they worked with only R-W wires. I turned off the learning feature, as it was useless for my house with its combination of passive solar and radiant heat. However, the API is/was quite simple and I was looking forward to writing my own controller. Still, I had this nagging feeling that I shouldn’t have bought them. Thanks for confirming my anxieties, Google! I can’t trust you, but I at least can trust you to be you.
- Marsymars 7y ago> I bought two Nest thermostats this winter because they worked with only R-W wires. FWIW, I've got a gas fireplace with no C wire that I added a 120V->24V AC adapter and a Fast-STAT common maker to for <$100 to wire my Ecobee thermostat without needing to alter any in-wall wiring.
- slifin 7y ago:clap: :clap: Don't make breaking changes in public things :clap: :clap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyLBGkS5ICk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyLBGkS5ICk
- mcintyre1994 7y agoIt seems weird they're announcing this during I/O - you'd think they'd avoid telling developers that their platforms sometimes shut down with 3 months notice and with no replacement provided when everyone's paying attention.
- 0_gravitas 7y agoAre there any Open Source hard/software based home-assistant alternatives to stuff like Nest and Alexa?
- csixty4 7y agoDoes this mean Alexa won't be able to control my thermostat anymore? What a crappy way to get me to switch to their ecosystem.
- BadJo0Jo0 7y agoWhile I'm frustrated at this, I'm wondering if what I'm feeling is a knee-jerk reaction. I wonder how the Actions on Google Smart Homes integration works. Will I still be able to control my Nest thermostats from Google Smart Home Actions? This seems to be mentioned, but it's unclear what I'm able to do and how.
- krosaen 7y ago> One developer platform. We want to unify our efforts around third-party connected home devices under a single developer platform – a one-stop shop for both our developers and our customers to build a more helpful home. To accomplish this, we’ll be winding down Works with Nest on August 31, 2019, and delivering a single unified experience through the Works with Google Assistant program. > One set of privacy commitments. As Nest redefines technology in the home, there’s an opportunity to explain clearly and simply how our connected home devices and services work, and how we will respect your privacy. Learn more about Google’s commitment to privacy in the home. and at least a preliminary perusal of the google home apps seems to indicate control of nest works: https://assistant.google.com/explore/c/19/?jsmode=du&hl=en_US&utm_campaign=GS102472&utm_source=external&utm_medium=email_service&utm_content=workswithgoogleassistant https://assistant.google.com/explore/c/19/?jsmode=du&hl=en_U... so while grumpiness about this consolidation and need to migrate / have a google account (instead of nest account) seems warranted, this doesn't feel like the same thing as "pulling a twitter" or a conspiracy to bait and switch developers. if it turns out you won't be able to actually control the nest in the same way, I'll go get my pitchfork and join y'all, but I'm cautiously waiting to see how this turns out.
- adjkant 7y agoRead upthread, but lots of control appears to be lost - some estimated 90% of programatic control. Grab your pitchfork :)
- 24gttghh 7y agoGood. One less reason to use this type of garbage in your house anyways.
- poorman 7y agoIt will be interesting to see if some open source firmware comes out of this. I wonder if we will see people "jailbreaking" their IoT devices to work with more open/collaborative marketplaces.
- deg4uss3r 7y agoAnyone want to buy a nest? It came with the home and I'd rather use it as a hockey puck than a thermostat/spy.
- justwalt 7y agoThat’s quite the sales pitch.
- stronglikedan 7y agoThe worst part is that Google Home is a complete shit-show so far. I constantly have to redo device setups for dvices that randomly disappear, recreate groups that lose one or more (and sometimes all) devices, and physically reset devices that randomly disconnect from wifi. It's been a terrible experience so far. I'd get rid of it completely if Alexa would let me like songs on Spotify, but that's another conversation altogether.
- thatoneuser 7y agoSo what you're saying is Google is giving another red flag that any work done with them should only be considered a privilege that can be revoked at any time? It's funny I found this article and I'd literally just been thinking about how I need to avoid Google products because I can't afford to have my workflow just up and disappear when someone at Google gets promoted to a higher level management.
- ummonk 7y agoThis sort of thing by Google (along with dropping many beloved consumer products) has become such a regular occurrence that I wonder how much it has impacted the tepid adoption of Google Cloud by developers.
- la_barba 7y agoI understand everyone wants to dump on Google here, but Nest labs is the company that made the API, not Google, and AFAIK they never turned a profit. So as far as "promises" go, Google didn't really make a promise to anyone w.r.t the API FWICT. Google has shuttered their own products plenty, but when you purchase a loss-making company you're going to want to streamline everything, so you can make your money back.
- ondrae 7y agoHow can I return all my Nest products in the United States? Any EU-like laws apply here?
- jonahhorowitz 7y agoDoes anyone know of a good replacement for the Nest Protect Smoke Alarms? Lots of recs for ecobee and insteon for thermostats, but I'd love a smoke detector recommendation.
- hawski 7y agoI thought about buying a thermostat for my district heating radiators. But for the time being I just manage with a cheap thermometer and regulating the radiator manually, because they already have a crude thermostat. It works quite good, because weather is not changing as fast day to day and heating season is not very long. Many times more technology equals more nuisance.
- wil421 7y agoJust bought a home this year and I am so glad I went with Ecobee and Ubiquiti Unifi cameras. If your model is a subscription service I don’t want your product. Especially if they are acquired by Google. Google has acquired and killed (or killed their own products) more products than almost any company I use. I don’t even want Alexa so I just turn it off.