17 ms·

Traveling the World on a Third World Passport

• dronemallone 8y ago
  Not to mention standing in long queues OUTSIDE the consulate, sometimes for several hours. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/new-queue-system-saves-time-for-us-visa-applicants/article2148154.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/new-queue-...
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • patall 8y ago
    Just to give some perspective, not all your visa problems are because you have a weak passport: As a European, that happened to me when I needed a work visa for the US (for 2 month unpaid internship, J-1 visa). Only had to wait 20 min though because I had to book an appointment via credit card for $10. And I would not say that the guys there were nice in anyways. (Whole thing cost me $500, one day of travelling and 2 month preparing the whole thing in total.)
• 0xBABAD00C 8y ago
  It is hell. The difference between having a third (or second) world passport and a US passport is night and day. Worst of all is the attitude at embassies from some washed-up diplomat-wannabes who show open animosity and derision towards you and your kind and get a sweet power trip out of each such interaction. It is literally a hellish experience I don't wish anyone to go through...
  • xaranke 8y ago
    I agree, but it gets easier if you have more than one visa from a developed country in your passport and a history of "safe" travel. Unfortunately this isn't relevant unless you travel at least once a year.
    • vinni2 8y ago
      I tick all the boxes you say no criminal record strong ties to my country of residence not muslim and yet I run into issues getting US visa i know a few more Indian in a similar situation.
      • puranjay 8y ago
        Heck, I had issues in getting a US visitor visa even though I've been there earlier on a student visa (F-1). The way the visa officers treat you like a criminal is even worse.
  • elboru 8y ago
    I’m from Mexico and even though my country has some bad immigrant reputation I haven’t had any problem traveling several times to the US, Europe and some Latin American countries. What countries had you had bad experiences with?
    • qaq 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Mexican_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Mexican_... Mexican passport is really good for visa free travel.
      • xaranke 8y ago
        Mexico is a classic tier-2 passport according to Andrew Henderson (Nomad Capitalist).
    • Aloha 8y ago
      Mexico is effectively a developed country compared to much of the world, its just a poor developed country.
  • puranjay 8y ago
    Visa hell is the only reason why I don't travel more, and when I do, I only travel to countries where I can get a visa on arrival (mostly other third world countries). I wonder whether the risk of illegal immigration outweighs the benefits of having more tourists enter your country. I would love to fly out to Europe for a couple of weeks (I can work from anywhere) but the visa process isn't worth it.
    • xaranke 8y ago
      There are quite a few countries in Eastern Europe that are visa-free. If you want to go to Western Europe, a UK Visa is a lot easier than a Schengen one and for some nationalities can get you into Ireland too.
• maxxxxx 8y ago
  I have German and US passports. I definitely feel very lucky with the way I get treated at most borders compared to others. And Thai is probably still one of the better ones. I wonder how it's to travel with a Pakistan or Afghanistan passport.
  • Jtsummers 8y ago
    https://www.passportindex.org/comparebyPassport.php?p1=us&p2=de&p3=af&p4=pk&fl=&s=yes https://www.passportindex.org/comparebyPassport.php?p1=us&p2... Quite a difference between them. And that's just access, addresses nothing about how people are treated.
    • maxxxxx 8y ago
      I have never been treated badly as German. In my view it's one of the best passports you can have for travel.
      • 21 8y ago
        I don't think it's just the passport (hint: how do you look?)
        • maxxxxx 8y ago
          I honestly don't think so. I am generally not a people person and don't make a very friendly first impression.
          • prmph 8y ago
            OP is probably referring to your racial/ethnic appearance
            • maxxxxx 8y ago
              When I was in Cambodia/Laos/Thailand I often stood in line at the border with people from Poland, France and other countries. Me and the French were checked less and got in with less questions than the Polish people. I can imagine they get treated better than dark skinned people but even within white people there is a difference.
• mozumder 8y ago
  Just open the borders and let the third-world openly travel and immigrate to the first world. To the non-college working-class that these anti-third-world policies are designed to protect: If your job can be taken by a third-worlder, then that's YOUR fault. You were given the privilege to learn skills that third-worlders don't have, but you didn't take advantage of that. You are in effect, a third-worlder, and society has no responsibility to protect you from them. We, as a society, paid thousands of dollars to send you to school for 12 years to teach you calculus and literature and world history and what not, only for you to get your ass handed to you by an illiterate third-worlder? And you expect us to protect you? lol good luck with that. Just the ability to speak English is a minimum skill that should prevent you from losing your job.
  • sctb 8y ago
    Since you keep breaking the guidelines we've banned the account.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
• Simulacra 8y ago
  I just acquired a GDR passport from 1981. I wonder if it’s still good…
  • maxxxxx 8y ago
    Is it in your name?
    • Simulacra 8y ago
      I can neither confirm nor deny that.
• xaranke 8y ago
  As a holder of a weak passport (India), I'm surprised that the author hasn't used the most effective hack for "powering up" a passport: getting a US visitor (B1/B2) visa. A US B1/B2 Visitor Visa will generally get you into an additional dozen or so countries (sometimes more), as outlined here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Stat... (see "Use for other countries" section). This list crucially includes Turkey, which the author could have used for applying for an EU visa from Istanbul instead of going home. Not to mention that the US Visitor Visa will let you visit the US for up to 6 months at a time for the next 10 years for a reasonably modest fee of ~$200. Also unlike other countries you don't need to document a plan to visit the US and your visa remains valid even if your passport expires and you get a new passport. Given all this, I'm not sure why the author hasn't made this (relatively) small investment. If you're opposed to getting a US visa for ethical reason, you can also pull off the same (albeit to a lesser degree) via a Canadian/British/Schengen visitor visa (roughly in that order).
  • vinni2 8y ago
    > Not to mention that the US Visitor Visa will let you visit the US for up to 6 months at a time for the next 10 years for a reasonably modest fee of ~$200. Except not everyone is lucky enough to get a 10 year visa. Applied for B1/B2 three times each time I got 1 year visa. It is a hassle to go the US embassy and beg for visa every couple of years. Also the lack of privacy in the consulate is appalling! A poor girl had to explain why she was arrested aloud everyone wating there could hear it! Edit: typos
    • xaranke 8y ago
      Which country are you from? Most visitors are eligible for a 10 year visa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Stat... (see section "Validity period"). Unfortunately, the treatment might not be the best. In that case, you can probably apply for a Canadian/UK/Schengen visa and get 80% of the effect without much of the hassle. As for the girl, I'm not sure why she would think she would be let back in after being arrested in the US.
• emiliobumachar 8y ago
  Brazilian here, with a US visa. The appointment in the consulate took several hours, mostly waiting in line. You really have to set aside an entire day. Also, they keep your passport for a few days, then send it through the mail. I'm still lucky to live a couple hours drive from the nearest consulate. Brazil is a big country, and for many the consulate visit is a travel event in itself.
  • Fomite 8y ago
    In fairness, this is true for getting a Brazilian visa in the U.S. My understanding is this is retaliatory, one way or the other.
    • schoen 8y ago
      The Brazilian visa policy is definitely advertised as a reciprocity measure, but the only thing about the experience that's really particularly "reciprocal" in practice is the visa application fee. In addition to requiring a considerably smaller amount of personal data and fewer travel details, Brazilian consulates in the United States don't require an interview for visa applicants from the U.S., and in fact don't even require the applicant to be present in person at all. You can, for example, give your passport to a visa expediter who can deliver it along with your visa paperwork to the consulate and pick it up for you afterward. (An example—among several—is https://www.traveldocs.com/. https://www.traveldocs.com/.) So, you don't necessarily have to travel to the consulate at all. If you do travel to the consulate, you might wait for about an hour and be asked largely pro-forma questions about the nature of your travel. Source: I'm U.S. passport holder who's obtained three Brazilian visas and helped other Americans with their Brazilian visa applications.
    • Daishiman 8y ago
      Brazil has a visa reciprocity policy.
    • princekolt 8y ago
      Nowadays you can get a Brazilian e-Visa relatively hassle free: http://www.vfsglobal.com/brazil-evisa/ http://www.vfsglobal.com/brazil-evisa/
• superasn 8y ago
  It's no wonder why (rich) people spend so much money to get a St kitts citizenship just to avoid all this. It does really take the fun out of the travel IMO. The worst still is the US visa in which you have to go for an interview like a fucking job interview in order for them to ascertain if you're fit or not. I have travelled so much around the world but hated traveling to US because of this reason (because at least with rest of the countries a travel agent can do almost 90% of the leg work). But when I think calmly I don't blame them though because people do abuse it a lot. I think one time our entire rowing team disappeared in the US after arriving.
  • xaranke 8y ago
    Having a St Kitts passport still subjects you to applying for a US visa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Saint_Ki....
  • charlesdm 8y ago
    You're kidding, right? St Kitts isn't exactly a world class passport. If you want to "buy" a first world passport, go for a passport from any EU country. Plenty of countries offer passports to investors.
    • Mediterraneo10 8y ago
      Right now, at least for Russian buyers of citizenship-by-investment (a field with which I have some acquaintance as a RU-EN translator with some such firms as clients), only Malta among the EU countries is an attractive option. Other EU countries are no longer so quick to hand out citizenship, only residency permits. The Caribbean countries may not seem “world class” to you, but passports of some of them do offer visa-free travel to Schengen and Commonwealth nations, which in itself is enough for many of these investors.
    • superasn 8y ago
      Yes st kitts was the cheapest I think. It certainly used to be very popular a few years ago but not sure if there are better options right now. The primary reason being you got your money back after 5 years. All this iirc. First class passport like Germany are very costly compared to it.
• NKosmatos 8y ago
  Here is the passport index global ranking: https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php Never occurred to me that Greece would be so high in the list :-)
  • xaranke 8y ago
    This is mostly because of inclusion in EU; the EU is able to negotiate visa policies for their citizens as a block instead of individually.
    • nraynaud 8y ago
      it's even mandatory, bilateral treaties are mostly forbidden.
      • xaranke 8y ago
        I'm not so sure, IIRC Polish and Romanian citizens need a visa for visiting the US even though they are both EU members and US citizens are allowed to visit both visa-free.
      • bkor 8y ago
        This should not be downvoted. In practice it's not the case. However, EU negotiates on behalf of EU, not individual countries. Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/us-nationals-to-be-forced-to-apply-to-visas-eu-reciprocity/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/us-nationals-to-be-f... Quote: "Americans should be forced to apply for visas to travel to Europe, the European Parliament has said, in response to Washington refusing to allow all Europeans to travel to the States visa-free."
    • andybak 8y ago
      Oh great. Another thing to look forward to after Brexit. As a Brit I'm really hoping Jacob Rees Mogg has a few disastrous holiday visa experiences in his near future.
      • 8y ago
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• zcbenz 8y ago
  As a holder of third world passport, you will be really truly fucked up when your flight temporarily changed destination and landed on a country to which you don't have a visa. This is what would happen to you: 1. The aircrew would tell you everything is fine and totally ignored you after landing. And you got no compensation from the airline. 2. The custom control would hold you in a small black room from 12 hours to 7 days, along with all kinds of illegal immigrants. 3. Usually you would end up getting expelled to your passport's country, with it recorded on their system and even stamped on your passport, which means it will become much harder for you to apply for a visa.
  • xaranke 8y ago
    Can you give an example? I've never had this happen to me and my assumption was that if you stayed airside (didn't cross immigration) you would be fine.
    • TomMarius 8y ago
      Many countries require a transit visa AFAIK. For example: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/transit-schengen-visa/ https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/transit-schengen-visa/
      • xaranke 8y ago
        A lot of countries will waive this requirement if you have a visa from the US or another first-world country. Have transited through CDG,MXP,AMS,LHR using a US visa.
        • TomMarius 8y ago
          Maybe you're flying third world->third world and have not been able to obtain the first world visa, though.
          • xaranke 8y ago
            That's rough, generally having at least 1 first-world visa makes things a lot easier.
• superseeplus 8y ago
  Something not often mentioned is that some countries (UK, Spain and France come to mind) require a visa to transit through their airports.
  • xaranke 8y ago
    This can often be waived if you stay airside and have a visa from another first world country. I've done this personally with a US Visa in the UK and France, can't speak to Spain.
    • Aramgutang 8y ago
      The UK even allows visa-free 24-hour transit that allows leaving the airport for almost anyone. While studying in the US, I once booked a flight to visit my relatives in Prague, flying into Heathrow, then flying out from Gatwick 18 hours later, leaving me with a whole day to explore London. It's supposed to be at the immigration agent's discretion, but he was happy to let me through, despite my Armenian passport. Return leg was slightly more complicated, because the airline staff in Prague refused to check me in, since the flight was to London, and I had no UK visa. After at least half an hour of arguing, they ended up drawing up a waiver for me to sign, and let me on.
  • peachananr 8y ago
    Yes and for us this world passport holders we can't even fly a flight that has 2 transits in the EU. Since flying from Rome to Paris is considered domestic, I will need a schegen visa for that. I lost a 1300 USD flight once because of the flight I wanted to take to Bogota, Colombia passes through Rome and Paris. :/
• betocmn 8y ago
  And that's for travelling. Think about how many people struggle in their home country with very few chances to try it out in a better place for them. As Nancy Birdsall puts it [1]: "No other circumstance of birth — not race, gender, ethnicity, or parental socioeconomic status — so completely determines life chances as the nation of birth, essentially because of border restrictions on the mobility of labour". [1] https://www.cgdev.org/sites/default/files/9781933286105-Pritchett-let-their-people-come.pdf https://www.cgdev.org/sites/default/files/9781933286105-Prit...
  • xaranke 8y ago
    In my experience, people from India (and I'm guessing other third-world countries) often move to a foreign country without ever visiting first given the expense of travel and their limited savings. In a way immigrating is more accessible to them than visiting as a tourist. But generally, yes I agree with your point.
    • sumedh 8y ago
      > In a way immigrating is more accessible to them than visiting as a tourist. Not really. Someone from a developed country can get a working holiday visa to other developed countries very easily and work and travel. People from third world countries cannot do that, ofcourse I understand why they cannot do that.
      • jkaplowitz 8y ago
        Most working holiday visas top out at a certain age, like 35 or even lower. The US participates in surprisingly few - only five, most of which have maximum ages of 25-30. But, sure, what you say applies to young people from most developed countries.
  • daemin 8y ago
    This is also one reason countries have a higher wage than others, because not everyone can come in and increase the supply of labour.
• dredmorbius 8y ago
  NB , it seems travel visas emerged in the early 1920s. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=travel%20visa%2C%20transit%20visa%2C%20visa%20stamp%2C%20passport%20visa&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctravel%20visa%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ctransit%20visa%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cvisa%20stamp%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cpassport%20visa%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=travel%20visa%...
  • umeshunni 8y ago
    Visas and passports started widely being used post-World War I
• js2 8y ago
  Semi-related "Show HN: Compare benefits of second passport based on the one you have" (201 points, 145 comments) from last month: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17577386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17577386 https://multinational.io/ https://multinational.io/
• londons_explore 8y ago
  Unmarked affiliate links aren't cool...
• empath75 8y ago
  I spent three months traveling through Central America and the stories I heard of the difficulties people face trying to just visit America are absurd. It’s just ridiculous that Americans can show up basically anywhere on earth and get waved in and we don’t extend that courtesy to others.
  • xaranke 8y ago
    Not true; US citizens can't get into any of the BRIC countries without a visa. China and Russia require traditional visas, India and Brazil require eVisas. In any case, you can't just show up in these countries like you can in the EU.
    • bruceb 8y ago
      US/EU citizens can visit some cities in China for 3-5 days without a visa if you then proceed to a third country and only have 1 stop in china.
  • wholien 8y ago
    True for Singapore, South Korea, Japan, Brazil... all of Europe mostly...
  • selectodude 8y ago
    Americans aren't at a very high risk of staying. That's the bottom line for visas.
  • usepgp 8y ago
    When it comes to tourist visas, its really all about how likely is a person from X going to overstay their visa in Y. This is why many places conduct interviews and ask for travel details. I know a few wealthy people from countries like Myanmar who have no issue getting visas.
  • macdice 8y ago
    I think most countries would prefer to do it reciprocally as a matter of pride (for example Brazil started fingerprinting US travellers after the US was the first to start doing that to all foreigners), but in some cases they can't afford to put up barriers to tourism dollar inflows, so they make a difficult choice. Plenty of countries won't let Westerners waltz in without a visa -- for example India and China.
• damnyou 8y ago
  ITT a bunch of Hacker News denizens discover the idea of privilege.
  • HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
    What do you mean by privilege here?
    • damnyou 8y ago
      Systemic unearned advantages. An easier difficulty mode for life, if you will.
      • HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
        Then I disagree that it's privilege. A civilisation requires active effort to maintain, it cannot just float by on its own inertia. If people from western countries did nothing but inherit the privilege of their parents, society would quickly erode, and then their passport would be at the bottom of the list as well.
        • damnyou 8y ago
          I never said people with privilege do nothing but inherit it. But the fact that they inherited it makes many things easier. And in any case maintaining privilege is usually much easier than gaining it.
          • HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
            Your definition of privilege was 'unearned'. I would challenge that by saying that privilege is earned by successive generations generating and maintanining said privilege. https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php The nation at the top of this list was a low-income, third world nation 60 years ago. Do you think this happened by accident?
• andybak 8y ago
  Brit here. Would love to travel to the States one day but it sounds like an awful hassle so I continually pick easier destinations. Even the whole "give up your social media passwords" is enough to make me go "meh..." Vancouver was lovely. Might be as close as I'll ever get....
  • xaranke 8y ago
    As a Brit it's as simple as filling out an ESTA which is valid for 2 years, you shouldn't miss out on a very beautiful country because you couldn't be bothered to fill out an online form. In general, you shouldn't decide whether to go to a place or not depending on how easy the visa situation is.
    • thebooktocome 8y ago
      The added time waste involved should get allotted with the rest of the travel cost, and judged likewise.
    • Khaine 8y ago
      Unless your ESTA gets declined for any numebr of reasons. Then you need to get a visa.
  • curiousgal 8y ago
    The US is worth the hassle in my opinion simply because of its national parks. I have never seen anything like them in the world, in the span of like 3 states (Utah, Arizona and Colorado) you can experience 3 different landscapes (otherwise found in at least 2 different continents/countries) and just feel, truly happy, unlike other touristic experiences. (At least in my case, something about nature I find so serene)
    • adventured 8y ago
      It is funny in a way, the national and state parks may be America's best tourist feature hands down. It's a remarkable collection. Places like NYC can obviously be a great experience. The parks are pretty special though, a lot of the other typical touristy stuff you can more or less get in numerous other countries. And it's inexpensive, a $80 annual pass gets multiple people access to thousands of federal recreation spots and all 60 national parks.
• megamindbrian2 8y ago
  My wife is an immigrant from Poland. There is a lot of truth in this article. Governments discriminate against other governments A LOT and the citizens pay the price for that. In the US it would be considered illegal to take a Puerto Rican to jail for not having a passport, but there are cops dumb enough to think Puerto Rico is not a part of the US. Contrarily, many countries discriminate against people with a US passport. There is a hidden resort fee just for foreigners that hotels all around the world charge, but if you speak the native language, you can bypass the fee.
  • adventured 8y ago
    I ran into an amplified version of that during a long trip to France in the midst of the peak political fallout between the US and France over the Iraq war. The French being the French, every interaction was made dramatically better so long as I made every effort to stay in their language. There was a lot of tension in the air with regards to the US, dialogue in their language always defused that. Older people were the nicest, they were always surprised I was there and were happy to see an American in Paris at that time.
• coolanymous 8y ago
  It's amusing that the author complains about a 2-week process for getting a Visa where Iranians have to wait months and in some cases a couple of years for a simple visitor Visa to US, and in many cases be denied for no good reason
  • xaranke 8y ago
    If you're from Iran you can't even get a visitor visa now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_States#Visa_or_entry_refused_to_nationals_of_certain_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Stat.... Also waiting for a visa for 2 weeks means that your passport is tied up for those two weeks and you're unable to leave the country you're in. This could put a serious dent in the plans of any digital nomad.
• macdice 8y ago
  Coming home recently I was somewhat surprised to see that US Global Entry card holders can now skip immigration at New Zealand airports via a fast lane otherwise reserved for diplomats, even though New Zealanders are not eligible for the Global Entry programme in the States. Whoever negotiated that asymmetrical deal... sheesh... It so happens that NZ's regular immigration is now just an electronic gate that takes your photo, if you have certain passports (NZ, UK, Canada, Australia, US, some European countries etc). So it's already pretty close to the preferred entry schemes in the US and other countries and they're not missing much. But if you didn't have one of those lucky passports, but you did have one on the Global Entry eligibility list (which now includes India) I wonder if Global Entry would be a nice upgrade that would get you into several other countries more smoothly (effectively outsourcing the vetting process to the US, which seems kinda weird to me, but that seems to be what's happening).
  • xaranke 8y ago
    Does this apply to citizens of other countries with Global Entry too? https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/global-entry/eligibility https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/global-...
    • macdice 8y ago
      Good question, I can't find any information about that. I just saw the special lane with my own eyes.
• nish1500 8y ago
  Oddly, having residency in one of the more developed countries does little to mitigate the ill-fated effects of a weak passport. I am a Canadian resident with an Indian passport. A 10-day trip to Iceland involved me having to submit 6 - 12 types of personal and financial documents, and showing hotel bookings for everyday of my visit. I need to wait for 2 weeks to submit my application (in-person of course). The processing takes 2 - 6 weeks, not including the time they take to actually parcel your application to the embassy. I am 16 days into waiting and my application tracking status is stuck on the message it showed on the first day. I contacted their support, and their response was, "Oh year we didn't update that. I don't know what stage your application is at, and this is the most information I can give you." I paid more than $100 in visa and courier fees. I have travelled to over 15 countries and the above experience is, by far, one of the easiest processes I have been through.
  • xaranke 8y ago
    It is definitely a pain, but if you naturalize you'll only have to endure this for another 3 years.
• peachananr 8y ago
  Thank you for sharing my article here guys! Glad it gets the discussion going! To address one of the point in the comments about why i dont have a US Visa is that I haven't been traveling there at all and the process of getting a visa for Thais are very difficult, more so than the Schengen one. We have to fill in the longest form ever online, make an appointment and pay upfront, and then they will call me to have a one on one interview session and I have to dress properly (business attire apparently) for it just require so much effort that I decided to go to other countries instead. But even with the US Visa I won't be able to ask for a visa abroad in countries like Kazakhstan or many other countries that have embassy in Bangkok. They always ask for a proof of residency in the country I ask for the visa. :/ I'm glad it gets the conversion going though and the US is finally on the list now for me and I'll try and see if I can get 10 years. Apparently they are giving less and less of that nowadays as well.
  • xaranke 8y ago
    Hey! I'm the person who suggested getting a US visa, although I realize it may be tricky for a lot of people. Glad to see that I am not the only one frustrated with tough visa restrictions.
    • peachananr 8y ago
      Thank you for the suggestion. I'll definitely give it a go :)
• latchkey 8y ago
  Great visualization (I think posted here recently) of where you can travel with a passport. http://multinational.io/compare_passports http://multinational.io/compare_passports
• xvilka 8y ago
  Similar experience with Russian passport as well. Treating someone just by a place where he/she was born is a racism, just in a less obvious fashion.
  • SeaSeaRider 8y ago
    Ironically, Russia is one of the most difficult countries to enter in the world, for passport holders from any country.
    • xvilka 8y ago
      Sadly it is true. Russia is an awesome location for non-urban tourism with a wild variety of climate - from hellish desert to a cold-hellish snow one, from high-rise mountains to vast expanses of swamps. Totally worth a visit.
    • peachananr 8y ago
      Not for us Thais. We are visa free. I think they do it the way your country imposed them first. EU imposed the visa, they do the same back etc. That's what I believe at least. :)
    • tanyatik1 8y ago
      Not sure this is true. For example, from what I have seen for British citizen, the process is exactly mirrored: Russians have to go through the same process to go to UK as Brits have to do to go to Russia. Still a shame though. I must have gone through the process the author of the post mentioned at least 10 times in my life, it's not fun.
  • mb_72 8y ago
    Speaking as someone with dual Australian / Estonian citizenship, I never saw it as racism that it's a PITA to get a Russian visa, however the Russian view that anything that is an inconvenience to them is 'racist' is sadly all too common.
    • xvilka 8y ago
• peter_retief 8y ago
  I have a South African passport and just applied for visa to visit the UK, what a mission, relate completely with what you say. There are reasons why certain countries are targeted for strict visas. South Africa used to have quite a good passport until massive corruption in the SA government allowed criminals and other nationalities to get SA passports, now everyone suffers
  • akhatri_aus 8y ago
    The South African one got struck off the list (Namibia remained) after there were a string of drug smuggling incidents.
    • peter_retief 8y ago
      Well the government in ZA is still as crooked as ever, its not one event ;)
• gandutraveler 8y ago
  I wish there was a MoviePass like service for visa's. Pay a monthly/yearly for fee hassle free travel. Hopefully someday! P.S.I don't have enough money to pay upfront to buy citizenship in Grenada
  • xaranke 8y ago
    The cost of visas is generally not an issue, especially weighing it against the cost of flights, accommodation and food. What I really wish for is a Common App-like system for visas that will copy over info like Name, Date and Place of Birth, Travel History etc from one visa application to another. Automating bank balance details would also be a nice touch. P.S.: If you have an Indian passport, the number of countries we have access to visa-free keeps on growing, making this service less and less necessary.
• Aramgutang 8y ago
  Visa-free travel was what made me truly understand what "privilege" means. Having an Armenian passport and travelling extensively through my life made me very familiar with what the author describes: the months-long waits, the fees, the scramble for documents, the uncertainty, the inability to travel without planning months in advance, the queues, the unpleasant experiences at airports, etc... Eventually I managed to become an Australian permanent resident, which grants the right to travel to New Zealand without a visa. Some time after, a sudden opportunity came up, and I landed at Auckland airport, having booked my tickets the night before. I handed my completely blank, recently renewed, Armenian passport to the immigration agent (permanent residency is technically a type of visa, there is no "green card", and Australian visas are electronic, not placed as labels in a passport unless requested). He scanned it, stamped it, and handed it back to me, welcoming me to NZ. Took all of 20 seconds. That whole experience was completely surreal for me, not because it was so different, but because it was so mundane. There was nothing to suggest that this process might be different for some people. Everything about it screamed "this is normal", while my mind screamed the opposite. That was my first-hand lesson that unless you've ever lacked a certain privilege, it is near-impossible to be innately aware of it. Sure, others may try to educate you and make you aware, but it doesn't convey just how profound of an impact a privilege can have on the lives of those who lack it.
  • alpinemeadow 8y ago
    your post touched a nerve for me: on my last trip to the US I used my new Swedish passport. The experience was surreal in the sense that I entered the US with my US passport in 2’. Returning to EU it took 10” as I scanned my passport on a kiosk on my own. I originally have an Argentinian passport and sadly it’s only good for me for when I ocassiobally go back to visit family. OTOH is funny to hear people complaining about the hardships of international travel, even if you have to go thru a lengthy process to get a visa. The fact we are discussing these topics probably puts a lot of us on the top 5% of income earners in the world. Privilege is the water we swim in, we just stopped seeing it after a while.
    • gbaygon 8y ago
      In fact an Argentinian passport is really good for travelling. You don’t need a visa for the European Union, South and Central America, most Asia, and quick online visas for Australia and New Zeland. The only main visa needed is for USA (and Canada) but it takes one interview and is not that difficult to get. There are far worse passports to have believe me.
• adityapurwa 8y ago
  I would like to say welcome to Indonesia for the author of the post! I am Indonesian, and just like what the author described, it is also hard for Indonesian passport to travel around the world. There are some visa free countries we could visit, such as member of ASEAN countries. Indonesia is big, and the foreign embassy usually only located on the capital, Jakarta, or other big cities. It is hard for me to travel to country that require a visa because I, first have to travel to the capital, this already took a whole day off work, and also expense of travel, then either stay in the capital (more money for rent) or go back to my home city, then back again to the embassy once its ready (another money and time spent for travel). The problem was not the money or time, the problem is that we cant be certain whether our effort will yield result (e.g for me to travel to the capital, say 2 times and say 2 night hotel stay, would be around $300, also around 4 days taken from yearly leaves). Considering that, I’ll just visit visa-free country for now.
  • peachananr 8y ago
    Hey, I am the author. Greetings from Bajawa, Flores! Beautiful country you have! And you are right, Indonesia is massive. I've been back and forth at least 5 times in the past 6 years and still haven't been to Sumatra adn Sulawesi! But yes, that's what I did as well by starting my journey in Cambodia and worked my way from there :)
    • adityapurwa 8y ago
      Hi, nice that you enjoyed Indonesia! Even I havent been to Sulawesi nor Flores, good luck with your trip and safe travel!
• ayayecocojambo 8y ago
  except that obligation to get visas for most of the countries (and paying some valuable dollars and euros for them), some of my experiences on having difficulties over my Turkish passport are: - 3 hours interrogation when exiting thailand (some of my turkish friends are busted in their hostels in the 5 AM and taken to the police station for interrogation) - 1 hours interrogation in china (then the local police handed me over to some kind of special police force for some more quick interrogation) and veeery detailed search on my backpack and stuff in public. - had to enter separate line on entering Serbia with other (only) Turkish passport holders, where police officers asked why would i come to the country. these 3 stuff happened just after the official saw Turkish passport. some visa problems my friends had encountered: - when Trump had sanctions over some Arab countries on visas, Turkey was unofficially in that list i presume since none of my friends got their US visa at that time. (some of them was living in the US before or got their MS degree in states) - not being able to get schengen visa. (having CS degree in the most reputable universities in the country, have no criminal record per se) -- while travelling with foreign friends who have 'reputable passports', i realise, oh that is not the standarts. this is happening since i have third world passport + some bad reputation of my country.
• interdrift 8y ago
  Brexit is about to make the UK index much much much lower.
  • chupasaurus 8y ago
    Britain is managing it's visa policies on it's own. It would be a hassle for any country inside Shengen Agreement, though.
• madmax108 8y ago
  Had a funny experience on a recent Eurotrip I was on. I ended up losing a jacket (important to me for personal reasons) in Austria (Salzburg) on a tram, and had to depart for Germany (Munich) the next morning. I'd reported the loss to the bus operator and when they found the jacket they called to ask me to collect it from their office in Salzburg, but by then I was already in Munich. I ended up taking an early morning bus the next day from Munich to Salzburg, collected by jacket and was back in Munich by lunch. We had a bungee jump happening in Innsbruck (again Austria) the next day so we crossed the border again, only to come back to Germany a day later. So in 3 days I ended up crossing the border LEGALLY 5+ times. This story blows the mind of friends back home. Foreign travel is a much bigger deal in many places because of the planning involved (I even know people who had to return from layover airports because they were unaware that the airport needs a visa as well even if only on a layover... Yes, that's silly, but it's happened). As someone who carries a "weak" Indian passport (Yeah, I have a 10 year B1/B2, but honestly that's still a far cry from most decent passports w.r.t. travel), the Schengen process was astounding. I really hope more countries open up their visa restrictions to travellers.
  • madeofpalk 8y ago
    Borders around that part of the world really are more of an implementation detail than anything important. I'm originally from Australia but living in the UK for a year or so. I went on a couple month long holiday around the UK and while I was in northern Italy, I decided it would be nice to spend a couple of days in southern Switzerland. I hopped on a local commuter train and like 40 minutes later I was in Switzerland. The next day I went on a bit of a day hike and 'accidentally' hiked back into Italy for a stunning view.
    • madeofpalk 8y ago
      'Edit': I went on a holiday around Europe.
• grosjona 8y ago
  One positive thing about being born in a third-world country is that if you can manage to train yourself to become a good software developer (which I admit is probably much harder to achieve than in a first-world country), you can find remote work for a foreign (first-world) company and then you can live like a rich person in your own country (buy houses, etc...); this seems relatively attainable if you put your mind to it. When you're from a first-world country, becoming rich is essentially unattainable; you wish you could move to a third-world country to live a better quality of life, but that's not really an option; often, the law of these countries forbid foreigners from owning property; also, you don't know the language or culture so you might end up getting ripped off when doing large transactions.
• ttwtf 8y ago
  A few thoughts: 1. Nothing is more valuable in getting a visa than a passport that is full of visas already. Proof that you a) always go back home b) can afford to travel c) have gone successfully through the process already 2. Hotel reservations. So annoying to show hotel reservations for every day of your trip. This gives your zero flexibility. Solution: Book a hotel and cancel it after you got the visa. Nobody is going to check when you arrive. 3. Proof of XYZ. Most letters etc. can be faked. Trust me, I've done it. :-) 4. "Getting Rejected" This is something that must never happen, since many visa applications ask "Have you been rejected before?" Trust me, you don't want to put a "Yes" here.
• level09 8y ago
  If you think a Thai passport is bad, try travelling the world with a Syrian passport. it is extremely difficult to get through even when you have a valid visa (you could still be held for hours and eventually returned back). USA has already blocked the whole nation on grounds of religion (Muslim Ban). Life is extremely unfair, but thanks to the internet that empowered us, we can now create ideas, exchange them for money and then buy our way out of life disadvantages.
• nmeofthestate 8y ago
  Summary: massively asymmetrical economic situations of different countries (resulting in massively asymmetrical impetus for citizens to illegally migrate across borders) leads to asymmetrical passport experiences for their citizens.
  • amelius 8y ago
    Objectively, the winner is the environment, however. Perhaps traveling should be harder for everybody?
• upstandingdude 8y ago
  Pff, I am from Europe and if i want to go to say China its the exact same process. blah blah
  • xaranke 8y ago
    If you have a Western passport you can generally transit through for 72/144 hours without any problems.
• k_bx 8y ago
  Visa-free regime with EU is one of the best things that happened to Ukrainians a few years ago, we now have many more low-cost flight tickets and directions available, and most of my friends are using it, often surprising me at what's possible even on a low budget some of them have.
• nojvek 8y ago
  My cousin from Kenya got his visa denied to US and it was sort of heart breaking. Being from Kenya myself and now in US, I’ve missed many flights to vacations and a friend’s wedding because Visa would not come on time. You have to do quite a bit of preparation and paper work quite early. Hefty visa price easing fees and long queues. Having a first world passport is definitely a big previlege.
• morazow 8y ago
  Opening the page and seeing first picture made me smile :) That is a place in Turkmenistan! Coming from there and living in Germany, I wish someday to be able to travel the world possibly with German passport though..