23 ms·

Apple is rebuilding Maps from the ground up

• larrywright 8y ago
  I don't drive as much as a lot of people, but I have never felt that Apple Maps was really lacking. The only issue I've ever had with it was in Chicago once, where it directed me onto Lower Wacker, but then gave me directions as if I were on Upper Wacker (arguably a weird edge case anyway). Aside from that one issue, it's been rock solid for me.
• misterhtmlcss 8y ago
  With Waze, the ubiquity of Google Maps, improvements in city traffic data and AI tech, I'm genuinely surprised Google still uses 1km as a measurement form versus prioritizing time in minutes. In my urban driving experience I rarely consider distance over other factors, such as time and/or comfort of the drive. In my city I will often make alternative choices not based on distance, but on the amount of effort I need to put into the ride itself. Right now I'm just waiting for my lady and when she gets in the car I'm not taking the fastest route at all, but the most leisurely route to our brunch. Am I alone in feeling these are two different yet valid (more than just me) forms of user experience?
• supernovae 8y ago
  I just wish we had a real choice. Maps seem vendor lock-in especially when you use carplay or android auto. I want to use Gaia for offroading but can't use it while in auto mode... really sucks.
  • Aaronn 8y ago
    iOS 12 has support for third party navigation apps in CarPlay https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/04/apple-carplay-google-maps-waze-support-ios-12/ https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/04/apple-carplay-google-map...
• IloveHN84 8y ago
  For sure, Apple users will loose their way soon again
• andor 8y ago
  There is only really one big company on earth that owns an entire map stack from the ground up: Google Here Maps still exist... you might not have the app installed on your phone, but they provide map-related data, software and services to car manufacturers.
• Juxtaposedwords 8y ago
  "There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but somehow, there is always enough time to do it over."
  • skygazer 8y ago
    ... and thus was born iterative development.
• TylerH 8y ago
  Start with not sending people in the wrong direction, there's a free tip.
• trumped 8y ago
  so that they can send a few more people down ravines (I guess Apple has too much money)
• jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Great comparison https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/ Google Maps's Moat - Justin O'Beirne
• dalbasal 8y ago
  Apple maps is an odd sort of problem for apple to have taken on. First, it's Google head on. This is exactly the stuff where Google is very hard to beat. For Apple, it's a little outside their strengths. Too fiddly. Every damned place in the world has their own little public transport issues, data sources. Apple are more of a clever solution with the right compromises bunch than a "slog our way through 10 million random issues until a pattern emerges" bunch. I like the moxy, but there's always going to be an "are we the new Bing?" cloud hanging over projects like this, unless and until they "win." All that said, I'm glad there is something out there that isn't google.
  • pokemongoaway 8y ago
    But rewriting from scratch will be a good test to see if software engineering really is in as much if a better state in 2018 as people assume.
  • GeekyBear 8y ago
    It's a classic Apple privacy protection move. Apple wants to allow users to make map data requests anonymously using a random identifier that changes frequently. Google wants to link the device requesting map data to a particular user account. Google was playing hardball and refusing to provide turn by turn directions (as they did on Android) unless Apple stopped protecting their user's privacy. Rather than give in, Apple decided to roll their own mapping service. It's all about the difference between how the two companies make money. Google chooses to monetize their users' data. For instance, using their location data to tell it's advertising customers that a user has entered a store that sells their product. More recently, they have started buying credit card purchase data from third party data brokers so they can go farther and inform an advertiser that someone who saw their ad ended up buying the product advertised. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/607938/google-now-tracks-your-credit-card-purchases-and-connects-them-to-its-online-profile-of-you/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/607938/google-now-tracks-...
  • drakenot 8y ago
    This was not the point of creating Maps at all. It was to be able to approach the negotiating table with Google over maps from a more favorable position. Google was making certain demands to add turn-by-turn directions to the original maps app that Apple didn’t want to concede to.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• ProAm 8y ago
  Good artists copy; great artists steal. TBH this is long overdue.
  • MBCook 8y ago
    Did you notice the part where they’ve been working on it since about a year or two after the original Maps launched? Making good a new globe covering map data layer is not exactly a 9mo project.
    • ProAm 8y ago
      It took 2 years after the first abomination to realize they needed to start over? For a company that has almost a quarter trillion in capital in the bank, yes this is slow and overdue and a bit embarrassing. Maybe navigation directions will appear in the touch bar though. Im being a bit snarky but this isn't a proud moment for Apple.
      • MBCook 8y ago
        The first one had to be rushed into production because Google forced their hand with renewing the existing contract. It sounded like many inside knew it wasn’t ready. Forstall lost his job over it, didn’t he?
        • ProAm 8y ago
          I agree with all that, but it's also been 7 years. It's just been a long time and a disappointing result.
• Edd314159 8y ago
  Is the consensus that Apple Maps _still_ sucks? Sure, the launch was horrible, but it's seen years of progress and nowadays I find it perfectly usable. I use it over Google Maps without hesitation. Now I'm scared they're gonna break it again by rebuilding it. If it ain't broke (any more), don't fix it.
  • anothergoogler 8y ago
    If you like Apple Maps, empirically there is no consensus that it sucks.
    • daeken 8y ago
      What? Consensus means a general or overwhelming agreement, not unanimous agreement.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  • tjr225 8y ago
    I dunno- this might be an edge case but I was going hiking and was trying to get to a trailhead a month or so ago using Apple maps, and I ended up quite lost in the fireroads of the buckhorn wilderness. Spooky.
    • mikestew 8y ago
      I would never trust Apple or Google maps to get me anywhere more complicated than a local restaurant. If you're wandering out amongst the logging trucks (or anything that isn't paved, for that matter), try something like Gaia GPS. Gaia allows you load whatever maps you want, including USGS Topo maps. On the dirt-road-loving motorcycle, I paid the $50 (or whatever it cost) to get the topo dataset on the Garmin that rides on the dashboard. EDIT: BTW, if you're on anything that might be labelled "fireroad" you don't want to be depending on a map app that needs a connection to begin with.
  • glial 8y ago
• Waterluvian 8y ago
  Something that drives me nuts about Google Maps is how much of it leads you to non-spatial lists of data. We are spatial beings asking spatial questions. Don't make me do the work of linking a list of restaurants to dots on the map. This is a significant cartographic challenge but I think it's key to making map software a joy to use. I don't have an iOS device so I can't comment on current state, but I hope this gets first class attention.
  • andrewla 8y ago
    That is a very jarring experience. I'd much rather get the pins and have to click to see what they are rather than losing half my screen to the list. Another problem is that it loves to move your viewport -- sometimes just a small zoom out or something, but sometimes moving you entirely, or searching around your current location instead of in the selected map area. I would prefer it if every viewport move had a prompt saying "Hey, I'm going to move your map to some other area" and give me a chance to complain, or have some sort of seamless "save this view" thing that goes into a stack in the corner so I can go back to the view that I was looking at.
    • tomaskafka 8y ago
      Oh yes. I've been a designer for a (locally) competing maps service, and I failed miserably at convincing the PM and devs that we should do quite a lot of work (changes to already established behavior) to make sure we aren't ever moving a map viewport user has set up, and that violating this rule makes people angry.
    • dharmab 8y ago
      > searching around your current location instead of in the selected map area This is absolutely infuriating for trip planning.
      • bitpush 8y ago
        Isnt there a "Search this area" as you move the map to a different location?
• tiles 8y ago
  I hope, though it does not seem evident here, that this data can be contributed back to OSM.
• tcmb 8y ago
  They should rebuild iTunes from the ground up. Unlike iTunes, users have alternatives to go to for maps.
  • michaelhoffman 8y ago
    That means they have a captive audience and don't need to do more to keep them on iTunes.
    • tcmb 8y ago
      You're right about the incentive, but it's an insult to their users from a company that claims to care about UX so much. They should just be ashamed of it and try to get something better out as soon as they can. Sorry for ranting so much about iTunes in this thread, and from some other comments maybe I don't need to use it as much as I thought I'd have to. But then again, why do I have to use third-party apps for e.g. podcast client and music player. Those are such a central appliances that they should really be served well by Apple, who even include things like iMovie and Garage Band with their OS.
  • dep_b 8y ago
    There's already some stuff transferred to Apple Configurator that used to be in iTunes.
  • ibdf 8y ago
    Spotify and Google Music comes to mind, but I guess it depends on what you use itunes for - which is also probably the issues with iTunes.. it does too much too poorly.
  • amelius 8y ago
    Yes. I don't get why Apple is often praised for getting UI "right", when iTunes, one of the central components of their system, is clearly a design gone bad.
    • ebikelaw 8y ago
      How it is central? I use an iMac and an iPhone exclusively and I have done so since those things existed, but I never use iTunes. What's it good for?
• dep_b 8y ago
  I have been using Michelin maps for traveling in Europe and while the app fails in many regards it's really so much better in terms of useful data visible on the map and the maps are so nice looking. We really took a big step backwards with Google Maps and the maps that are trying to be Google Maps. The maps are garish and have no useful details. I have to scroll and zoom around until the name of the street I'm currently in decides to appear. And then those huge swathes of nothing. Random stores being indicated. But you always get an incomplete set of data. Not every store on the block or nothing.
  • nmeofthestate 8y ago
    I found the dearth of street name labelling a huge pain in the ass the last time I was on foot on holiday trying to orientate myself and get around.
    • baby 8y ago
      I have this problem with gmaps. It happens sometimes that I can’t for the love of humanity find out the name of the street I’m on
  • DanBC 8y ago
    > zoom around until the name of the street I'm currently in decides to appear. This is especially bad if you're on a bus and want to see where the stops are, so you know when to ring the bell. GMaps makes you zoom so far in that you're constantly scrolling the map to keep up with the bus.
  • sorenjan 8y ago
    This is a road through a forest [0]. Good luck seeing anything while using your phone outside in the sun. I use other maps when walking or biking, Google maps are almost never the best option. [0] https://i.imgur.com/IRJpNZZ.png https://i.imgur.com/IRJpNZZ.png
    • widerporst 8y ago
      This is something that completely baffles me. Why the hell does Google Maps completely hide vegetation when zoomed in? It's incredibly confusing that forests look exactly like urban areas.
• crsv 8y ago
  I would like them to rebuild the Macbook Pro from the ground up. It's a much more critical element in my life. If they keep producing inferior notebook hardware, I'll change platforms. If I change platforms, I'm less tied to macOS and iOS, if i'm less tied to iOS I'm more likely to change to some other platform. If I change to some other platform, it won't matter if they made Maps useful or not, they'll have lost me because of a more important element in the ecosystem failed me.
  • coob 8y ago
    Do you think the same engineers working on Maps are the ones designing the next MacBook Pro?
  • 27182818284 8y ago
    I wonder how many Apple engineers read HN--like is it rare or fairly often. Pretty much every Apple related thread has comments about the MacBook line suffering. Heck, I've been one of those complainers. I think the MacBook Pro was the best circa late 2012-2013. If my current MacBook Pro dies, my replacement won't be another Mac like it has been. I'll sadly have to jump ship for a while.
    • ecshafer 8y ago
      I imagine many apple software engineers read hacker news. I don't think hacker news is as popular with the computer engineering crowd though, but I would wager there is a decent amount of them that still reads it. But the apple designers, product owners, and other people that have a lot more say on the direction of a product probably don't read it at all.
  • mikestew 8y ago
    I would like them to rebuild the Macbook Pro from the ground up. I think you posted in the wrong thread. This one is about Apple Maps.
  • 5874-4b22-a4e0 8y ago
    This & please replace the keyboard, touchpad (bottom half) with full retina touchscreen, dual graphics, bezeless, fanless, and add in apple pencil with a laser, microphone, and twisting/push in eraser (for presentations).
• forgot-my-pw 8y ago
  For those interested, this site gives good thorough comparisons between different map services (mostly Google & Apple): https://www.justinobeirne.com/ https://www.justinobeirne.com/ Latest entry in Dec 2017: How far ahead of Apple Maps is Google Maps? https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat
  • sharcerer 8y ago
    This article was a beauty. Also, if I remember correctly, it was written by an Apple cartographer.
  • wallflower 8y ago
    If you haven't read that Moat essay, it is a detective work of art. Highly recommended.
    • Dragonai 8y ago
      I just want to second your comment because I can't stress enough how badly I want anyone who hasn't read it yet to read it. The week he published it, I must've shared it with every single person who I felt might even remotely care for it. It's a phenomenal piece.
      • superflyguy 8y ago
        It's worth the risk?: This Connection is Untrusted You have asked Firefox to connect securely to www.justinobeirne.com, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure. What Should I Do? If you usually connect to this site without problems, this error could mean that someone is trying to impersonate the site, and you shouldn't continue. Technical Details I Understand the Risks
        • forgot-my-pw 8y ago
          That's odd, the cert is valid Let's Encrypt expiring Wednesday, September 19, 2018. Maybe your DNS got hijacked? There's been some connectivity outages in the US this morning.
• iNerdier 8y ago
  The one thing they would have to add to get me to change is adding an option to cycle. Living in a city with reasonable bike facilities makes it particularly grating that the default is suggesting that I want to drive everywhere. I know it’s US focused and you guys are car centric but come on, it’s been years!
  • ebikelaw 8y ago
    I think bicycling directions might be the hardest thing. Google has it but it's pretty bad. It often tries to send me up routes that are shorter but MUCH too steep [1], or up an off-road trail on which bicycles are forbidden [2]. They should combine their data with Strava global heatmap to work out which routes are actually used by practicing cyclists. You can see from Strava[3] that all three of the routes in [1] are ignored by all cyclists, who choose another route that isn't presented. The routes given by Google are very difficult for even strong athletes to climb. Anyway, it's possible that Apple sees it as just beyond their capabilities at this time. 1: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/37.8505318,-122.2224643/37.8678409,-122.2163599/@37.8569854,-122.2294845,14.81z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e1 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/37.8505318,-122.2224643/37.8... 2: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Canyon,+CA/Oakland,+California/@37.8296521,-122.2381077,13.78z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x808f87ef9ccad4e9:0x41abd803a47fdf7d!2m2!1d-122.1658805!2d37.8306731!1m5!1m1!1s0x80857d8b28aaed03:0x71b415d535759367!2m2!1d-122.2711137!2d37.8043637!3e1 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Canyon,+CA/Oakland,+Californ... 3: https://www.strava.com/heatmap#14.73/-122.22836/37.85920/hot/all https://www.strava.com/heatmap#14.73/-122.22836/37.85920/hot...
    • Doctor_Fegg 8y ago
      o/ I do bike directions based on OSM data: https://cycle.travel/map https://cycle.travel/map
      • ebikelaw 8y ago
        Interesting. Your routes are much worse :-/ From downtown Berkeley to Grizzly Peak it routes me up Marin Avenue, a 30-degree slope that nobody would willingly bicycle up.
• pier25 8y ago
  Honestly, I think Apple is wasting resources at competing with other companies by providing mediocre solutions. For example competing with Google at big data and AI with Maps and Siri, or competing with Microsoft with iWorks. Keynote is great, but I'd rather use Google Docs or Open Office than Pages and Numbers. In contrast, today Logic and FCPX are very competitive in their market.
  • naravara 8y ago
    >> Honestly, I think Apple is wasting resources at competing with other companies by providing mediocre solutions. The fact that Apple Maps exists forces Google to dedicate resources towards keeping Google Maps decent on Apple's platform. Competition is good, even if you don't use the competing product.
    • pier25 8y ago
      Sure, competition is good for the consumer. But is it good for Apple to keep investing resources in something that will most likely never be as good as the competition?
  • Eridrus 8y ago
    I think it's too easy to see the way things are today as the way they will he forever. I've made this mistake too often myself, so I find it generally useful to overcorrect and assume that over long periods of time technologies/companies/people can get far better than you expect.
    • magduf 8y ago
      Yeah, I think it's important to remember this. Remember when MySpace dominated social networking, and MapQuest dominated online mapping? Google Maps kinda came out of nowhere and blew MapQuest away.
      • Eridrus 8y ago
        I think my claim is a little different. I've seen quite a few comanites/technologies/people that I basically wrote off initially become fairly impressive over time as they continue improving while I'm not looking.
• bpicolo 8y ago
  I wonder how they'll replace the work Google has been able to do via ReCaptcha for house numbers and such
  • MBCook 8y ago
    The article said they’re using computer vision for that stuff. Between how good CV has gotten, the other data sets they’re comparing to, and having human editors hopefully they’ll be able to do a pretty good job.
• brightball 8y ago
  I'd be pretty happy if they just let me change the default maps app on my iPhone to Waze or Google Maps.
• AlexMax 8y ago
  > It’s doing this by using first-party data gathered by iPhones with a privacy-first methodology Does this seem contradictory to anybody else? Kind of like "anonymized data collection" that turns out to be not-so-anobymous when it invariably leaks?
  • MBCook 8y ago
    No. If you read the article they explain that they send segments of your trips, and never the start or end segment. So even if they could find all the segments from YOUR trip (which they can’t, according to what they’ve said) they couldn’t even reconstruct what you were doing, only a few small stretches of road you were on.
    • puzzle 8y ago
      That is not new. And it's still not enough, because it's not impossible to reconstruct someone's route if they drive in areas where they are the only ones (or among the few) to send segment data. That's why you need to do more work, as in two of Google's patents: https://patents.google.com/patent/US8972187B1 https://patents.google.com/patent/US8972187B1 https://patents.google.com/patent/US9794373B1 https://patents.google.com/patent/US9794373B1
  • djrogers 8y ago
    No, it doesn't seem contradictory, and it sounds like Apple is doing this the right way. If identifiable information never actually leaves my device then where's it going to leak from?
  • sfotm 8y ago
    By anonymized, I would take it that they mean no user or device-specific details are linked to the data when it's persisted. So when it's leaked, it's not as though someone can say "this iPhone was at this place at this time".
• Karunamon 8y ago
  I wish they'd just sign a deal with Google and be done with it. The problem is less with the maps app and more with their source of data. OSM is neat, yay competition, etc etc, but the quality is just not there.
  • MBCook 8y ago
    Did you read the article? They’re not going to be using OSM or TomTom anymore, they’re taking it all in house preciselynso they can fix those kind of issues.
    • Karunamon 8y ago
      Yes, I read it, and that would be strictly worse. Apple does not have the reach, or infrastructure, or anything to be handling that degree of data on their own.
      • zepto 8y ago
        What infrastructure do you think they don’t have?
    • Doctor_Fegg 8y ago
      In that case, the article is wrong. Apple has a team of people working on OSM.
    • mackrevinack 8y ago
      its a bit vague. they are not using it as a base map any more, but they might still be scraping certain details off of it. they would be stupid not to since osm is more up to date in some areas than even google.
• MBCook 8y ago
  Panzarino has just posted a follow up answering questions about the update: https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/questions-about-apples-new-maps-answered/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/questions-about-apples-new...
• everdev 8y ago
  > They did it by making the single worst strategic mistake that any software company can make: They decided to rewrite the code from scratch. [0] [0] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...
  • xuki 8y ago
    Not really the same thing here, this is the about the underlying data and control. Since Apple now own the data, it can make changes quickly and don't have to rely on a 3rd party to do it for them.
  • denzil_correa 8y ago
    > They decided to rewrite the code from scratch. I'm not sure if Apple Maps rewrites "code from the scratch". From the article, it seems they are building "Maps from the scratch" with some code reuse.
• callumprentice 8y ago
  Ironic that Apple introduce improvements to Maps just as they open up Car Play to Google Maps and Waze. Maybe it's because they think they're on par now (or will be) and don't need to block everything else. Our car has Car Play so I've been using Maps exclusively up to now and whilst I think I still prefer Waze overall, Maps is perfectly fine and I've gotten used to its rough edges.
  • xmodem 8y ago
    I don't accept the thesis that Apple locks third-parties out of things like CarPlay out of a desire to lock their users into more of Apple's services. I think it has more to do with wanting to do things right and ensure a consistent user experience. (I'll admit that it's sometimes hard to square this viewpoint with the level of brokenness they ship)
• bdcravens 8y ago
  Like most I prefer Google Maps, but having a car with CarPlay, I either want Google Maps to have access to it (you can jailbreak, but it just puts the app on the screen; it doesn't provide the CarPlay specific functionality) or get Apple Maps to "good enough".
  • macintux 8y ago
    iOS 12 allows mapping apps to be used via CarPlay.
    • bdcravens 8y ago
      Nice! Was wearing my sales hat at a trade show when that announcement came out; I need to do a better job of keeping up :-)
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• noirbot 8y ago
  I'm very ready to move off of Google Maps, but as of yet, I can't emulate the biggest feature it has for me elsewhere: a spacial bookmarking system. My primary use of Google Maps is to remember places that I've been recommended by other people, and then when I go "I'm traveling to Portland, what places should I go?" I can check Google maps for everywhere I've tagged before. If Apple Maps gives me that, especially if it syncs from a webapp to my phone, I'm in.
  • lawkwok 8y ago
    If you click on a pin and scroll down the card, there is a “Favorite” button. Clicking it will add it to your Favorites list which can be accessed at the bottom of the search results list. The list syncs to your Mac Maps app too. The interface is not the most intuitive but it’s there.
  • mackrevinack 8y ago
    ive been moving away from google the last few months as well and i was surprised how good osmAnd is considering its open source. i think the bookmarking in osmAnd should do what you need. it also has a wikipedia and wikivoyage layer which you might find useful when travelling. there isnt any web version of osmAnd though but you can sync the osmAnd folder to a pc and open the bookmarks in any gps app. ive never tried editing them there and syncing back to the phone so youll have to experiment yourself on that one
• DanBC 8y ago
  I'd love it if any of the map makers had a button for "I am on a bus", which then i) sent a ton of data to them to improve their maps and ii) provided a more useful map version.
• panabee 8y ago
  one common comment is how the traffic data for google maps (and waze) trumps the quality of other map alternatives because it has the most users and therefore the most data for real-time traffic. could anyone with map/traffic experience please comment on when data scale overshoots functional requirements? that is, what is the user threshold (e.g., 1,000 users in the same 5 mile radius) above which traffic accuracy stops improving?
  • toxik 8y ago
    Google Maps is definitely better in terms of completeness and updatedness for iOS, in all regards: what places there are, what roads there are (esp. in rural areas), and the arrival time estimator is just better-informed. But for me, that is not all there is. I want an app that feels light and responsive, when I'm on say a bike, or in traffic. It needs to be reliable and not get forced to shutdown due to memory constraints. It also should not sell my data to the devil. All of these are ways in which Apple Maps is better.
• ambicapter 8y ago
  Why doesn't Apple uses its hundreds of billions of dollars that it has no use for to buy maps from companies with good data?
  • rpowers 8y ago
    Because their data is garbage. Did you even read the article?
• uptown 8y ago
  The one view that both Apple and Google seem to promote is the 3D geometric view of buildings and other large fixed objects like trees. While the technical achievement of generating these views impressive, I don't find them useful, and frequently find that it makes viewing the satellite view more-difficult to perceive. Google still provides the "flat" satellite view, but it's somewhat buried in the menus. Bing Maps used to provide very high-resolution 45 degree shot photographed from airplanes, but this is no longer available.
  • hyperrail 8y ago
    >Bing Maps used to provide very high-resolution 45 degree shot photographed from airplanes, but this is no longer available. Bing still has this feature, though they've updated it (made it less discoverable, I feel) and removed older photos. If you go to https://www.bing.com/maps https://www.bing.com/maps and point at the "Road" menu on the upper right, you will see "We have updated Bird's Eye. Learn more", which gives you the following information: >Bird's Eye has changed > New and crisp Bird's Eye imagery is available in many metropolitan areas. There are two ways of viewing the new Bird's Eye. >1. In cards >2. Right-click on the map >Note: Bird's Eye may not be available in your area as outdated imagery is no longer available. If I go to central San Francisco or Seattle, I can right-click the map as indicated and select "View bird's eye", and the picture will show up.
    • uptown 8y ago
      Thanks. They sure did bury what used to be one of my favorite views.
• nixpulvis 8y ago
  I've been saying this for years now. I want Apple Maps (cartography) with Google Maps search, and navigation. For example bike directions would be really nice.
• JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  This just seems like a huge waste of money for Apple. Smartphones need maps, I get that, but a huge chunk of Apple's customers still use Google maps anyway. Why not draw up an SLA with Google and just use them? There's the privacy angle, but Apple rarely mentions that with regards to maps and, come on, look around, average Joe just ... doesn't ... care... I'm glad they're wasting the money, though. I like options. And they have the money...
• JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  I use Apple Maps as my default map. The privacy stance is a strong enough sell, particularly for something as sensitive as mapping. I think I've had to jump to Google Maps once in the past few weeks. (Caveat: I don't drive.)
• wokawoka 8y ago
  I'm looking forward to see a melting bridge yet again.
• onetimemanytime 8y ago
  Any idea if https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_(company) would have made a good acquisition for Apple...instead of rolling their own ? Several billion was /is nothing for Apple, and smartphones without maps are quite useless for a lot of things.
• djsumdog 8y ago
  Apple should really make a web version of maps. iProduct exclusivity is not going to help them with Maps. Having another web alternative to Google maps could even help with iProduct sales.
  • jw1224 8y ago
    This was just announced at WWDC: https://developer.apple.com/maps/mapkitjs/ https://developer.apple.com/maps/mapkitjs/
  • BillinghamJ 8y ago
    They just did. It’s called MapKit JS, though currently it’s only available for inclusion into third party websites. But Apple could offer their own website for it if wanted.
• yakubin 8y ago
  > The maps need to be usable, but they also need to fulfill cognitive goals on cultural levels that go beyond what any given user might know they need. For instance, in the US, it is very common to have maps that have a relatively low level of detail even at a medium zoom. In Japan, however, the maps are absolutely packed with details at the same zoom, because that increased information density is what is expected by users. I hope it will be customisable. I'm in Europe and basically every map app has this bug that at a certain zoom level useful data isn't visible (even though it could easily fit on the screen) while a closer zoom requires a lot of annoying scrolling.
• saudioger 8y ago
  They should have bought Waze when they had the chance.
• sonnyblarney 8y ago
  If Apple staff are reading this - please fix this ridiculous issue - the fact metro stations show up at arbitrary levels of zoom. Zome show up at level x, some show at x+1, and some dissapear at x+1, meaning at many levels, you see some, not others. Also - an option to basically always show metro/subway locations. You jam the map full of stuff I'm not interested in - when I'm basically trying to find the subway stop. A lot of people use the metro in cities. Almost everyone. It's like the absence of a subway in the Silicon Valley makes you oblivious to 'master use cases'? Also - I want to get rid of the address taking up a chunk on the screen but I want the pin to remain. Can you get that? So simple. Maybe leave the last few things pinned. More generally the ability to have 'default' filters for the kinds of things you show and don't that are perhaps relevant to what I'm looking for. So many nuanced rough edges, I feel you're going to have to spend some time in the field and spend time with users in a very, very detailed way to capture these little things to take it to the next level.
  • thanatos_dem 8y ago
    WRT the metro issue, have you tried switching the map into "Transit" view? Hit the information (ⓘ) icon and select "Transit" under map settings. That shows all the transit lines & stops. As you zoom out, the subway lines do disappear, but are replaced with national rail lines, and then keep zooming out and it shifts to showing major international rail terminals. It doesn't hide all of the other stuff shown on the map, but it does effectively highlight each transit line, so it's easy to find the closest line and then scan it for nearby stations.
    • sonnyblarney 8y ago
      That's great, thanks for that ... ... but in regular map view, metro stations should all be visible on the same zoom level and beyond. Not this whack-a-mole thing of zooming in and out to find stations. No settings should be needed there.
    • ChrisBland 8y ago
      I have the same issue with Apple maps (chicago). If we (tech community) can't figure this out or its a painful UI for us; what hope does Jane Doe have in middle america? Google makes it super easy to find and navigate our train system.
• tambourine_man 8y ago
  When MS was the unbeatable Golias, the little guys (Apple and Google) used to team up, each at their core competency. Little did we know
• transformer 8y ago
  @sonnyblarney, try hitting the ‘i’ button on the top right to switch to transit mode. That should keep the subway stations visible
• cygned 8y ago
  Have been in the US and CA for a couple of weeks lately and used both Apple Maps and Google Maps. And I have to say that Apple Maps was way better during my stay. The navigation was more precise, even telling me the exact lane to stay in. And it was more human-like, Google Maps seemed to sound unfriendly and very much like a computer (hard to describe). Just a personal opinion, though, I expect things to be different in other areas.
  • skygazer 8y ago
    The specific lane guidance in Apple Maps beats Google Maps hands down at the moment. I can finally just listen to directions without ever referring visually to the map. The announcement timing is earlier than Google Maps (which you can hear if you run them both simultaneously) and more information rich, for instance telling you the subsequent-after-upcoming turn direction, which helps you get over in time. Google Maps always leaves me scrambling at the last minute. And Siri's voice is definitely less robotic as of iOS 11. I still often have to use Google Maps (or Waze) to find directions to a location in the form of "Albertson's on Tropicana." Google always gets this right, but Apple Maps only gets this only if you're close to the location. Same thing with intersections. Google Maps is always right, but Apple Maps requires you know and provide the full street name, including Blvd, Pkwy, Avenue, etc, which is infuriating. Lastly, Siri's speech recognition often gets place names badly wrong, recognizing them as generic sound-alike nonsensical phrases, ignoring travel context, where as Google tends to get them right as local location names, somehow factoring travel context into the recognition. If I can get the destination into Apple Maps easily, I prefer Apple Maps, if not, I go with Waze/Google Maps.
• mistrial9 8y ago
  .. there is a big difference between maps-for-consumer appliances and maps-as-fundemental-plumbing. Many comments and such will not make much sense if they are viewed only from a "consumer" point of view.. Spatial data is too important for only that..
  • whoisjuan 8y ago
    I like this concept by Mapbox. It really changes the way you could use a map: https://www.fastcodesign.com/90143906/theres-an-entirely-new-way-of-mapping-the-world-and-its-brilliant?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com https://www.fastcodesign.com/90143906/theres-an-entirely-new...
    • Kliment 8y ago
      non-blogspam original source https://blog.mapbox.com/a-new-kind-of-map-its-about-time-7bd9f7916f7f https://blog.mapbox.com/a-new-kind-of-map-its-about-time-7bd...
• aj7 8y ago
  That’s a crazy enterprise- to secure a number two position. Won’t end well.
• growt 8y ago
  I read "Macs" instead of "Maps" and got really excited for a few seconds.
• luckydata 8y ago
  To Apple: good luck with that. They'll need it.
• 7ero 8y ago
  One of my gripes with iOS is the ability to select a default maps app. It bothers me that when I try to share my location through iMessage, it forces me to view the information by opening apple maps and you cannot copy and paste the location into another mapping app. I believe this was a terrible strategy to get users to use apple maps.
• Bhilai 8y ago
  I support this and would actively use Apple Maps because competition is healthy and I don't want to be dependent on Google all the time.
• makecheck 8y ago
  Maps are one of many examples where users are needlessly required to adopt a particular UI to access particular data. I’m tired of having to accept Google’s clunky apps and stupid UI changes just because their data is better. I want somebody to be able to buy Google’s data (say) and decouple it. And that’s not a new problem (I don’t want to have to use Microsoft Word either).
• on_and_off 8y ago
  >It’s doing this by using first-party data gathered by iPhones with a privacy-first methodology what ? Do they ask user to opt-in into this ? Because otherwise that sounds impossible to achieve (I am not against anonymous data collection but most people coalesce this with losing privacy)
• thinkingemote 8y ago
  Google and Apple are not the only players in this game. As, relevant to this story is the announcement today that Microsoft / Bing has just released 125,000,000 building footprints as open data (i.e. suitable for OpenStreetMap) https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2018-06/microsoft-releases-125-million-building-footprints-in-the-us-as-open-data/ https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2018-06/microsoft-releases-125-m...
• sjg007 8y ago
  I wish they were smarter to search in your current location.
• DavideNL 8y ago
  This is great and all, but for example, we still don't have Apple Pay in my country (Netherlands, Europe.) So when will we get this improved Maps, in 5+ years just like Apple Pay?
• tomrod 8y ago
  They could beat Google maps for me if they make it cross platform and simplify the interface. Google maps is dense. Sometimes that's necessary. But it's too dense. Especially for a navigator. Something between Waze and Maps would be a sweet spot for me. I know a few of their data scientists--they have a good and talented crew working at it. I look forward to seeing what they accomplish.
• largehotcoffee 8y ago
  Haven't I seen this headline several times now over the years?
• kodablah 8y ago
  Glad to see a company can basically copy what another company has done to be successful without fear of reprisal. This is not sarcasm (it's how we all get better), but it is hypocrisy.
• beaconfield 8y ago
  As a long time Google user who, for privacy reasons, migrated most of my stuff away from Google I welcome this effort. I've been using Apple Maps for some time now and it's better than it was at launch, though not as good as Google. I hope their renewed effort to improve Apple Maps pays off mainly because of their privacy-first mentality. Also, I've noticed that whenever I submit a request for them to fix something, say, a business that's not listed I get a response and the item fixed within a day or two.
• pkulak 8y ago
  I'm sad about this. It was my impression that Apple had decided to use, and _contribute back to_, open map data sources. Now they have decided to just silo all their data like everyone else?
• pascoej 8y ago
  Apple maps works in China and it’s the only good english option. Enough reason to use for me.
• Havoc 8y ago
  I reckon they'll have a hard time taking on google maps. Google maps is for all intents and purposes a complete solution. Does what it says & has no obvious shortcomings. Baring some massive leap in AI I don't see anyone gaining market share against a well known perfectly good solution.
• mulmen 8y ago
  Will they finally create a map app that shows street names? Even Google can't seem to accomplish this without a ton of scrolling around and zooming in and out to get the name to show up. These apps are really more for navigation than maps in my experience.
• elvirs 8y ago
  just recently Google Maps on Android started acting like its clueless about its location for the first 100 feet of travel. God forbid you pull up to a gas station on a corner of an intersection. No way in hell it will figure out which way to go to get back on the highway. Must drive for a minute in a random direction for Google Maps to figure out where you are, which way you are headed and which way your destination is.
• lenocinor 8y ago
  Since people are asking a lot about Google / Apple Maps differences -- how does Apple Maps handle elevation? Google Maps often seems to send me up and down the same really steep (and often poorly maintained) narrow streets when I'm driving, which is more dangerous and stressful for me.
  • pducks32 8y ago
    I work in a mapping related field and I’ll be honest I’ve never considered that part of navigation. That’s a really interesting idea for making navigation better. Taking into account elevation and quality of road.
  • rconti 8y ago
    I believe Google Maps cycling and walking directions take this into account, but not driving directions, because typically cars and motorcycles have 0 issue with up and down grades; poorly maintained and narrow should be taken into account in Google Maps directions for cars, though. I'm not 100% sure how much Google Maps Cycling directions try to avoid hills, but they DO list the elevation change in the sidebar, at least on a web browser, so they're aware of the concern over elevation change.
    • lenocinor 8y ago
      The narrow part is mainly because of cars parked on the sides, so I can see why maybe they wouldn't consider that. The poorly-maintained part, though, I don't know. I got nothing there. EDIT: I also wish Google Maps would take into account that your average person will walk slower up tall hills. In my experience, it doesn't seem to do that.
• alistairSH 8y ago
  My biggest problem with Apple Maps (or maybe it's Siri, not sure) is search. I ask "give me directions to the Apple store in DC" and it returns a single entry for the Apple Store that happens to be closest. The algorithm appears to weight current location to the point that searching for anything outside your immediate vicinity is useless. Am I the only one with this problem?
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• foresterh 8y ago
  I don't see the article mentioning the Apple street view car I saw driving around my neighborhood in St Louis. I guess that's a different initiative....? Seems like a pretty big deal for them to try and have their own version of Google's street view.
• Bokanovsky 8y ago
  Here's the obligatory Silicon Valley clip link, where a focus group states how bad the product is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVq1wgIN62E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVq1wgIN62E
• bsvalley 8y ago
  Think of it this way: First, electric cars second, AI and self-driving cars third, high speed internet in your vehicle where you can surf the Web. Location will be a huge deal. Apple needs to master this space, Maps is just a client consuming data and displaying it in a form of a map. Geolocated data is where the money will be.
• jaimex2 8y ago
  Can it tell you how busy a place is yet like Google maps?
• RyanShook 8y ago
  I think Apple Maps is the ideal piece of software to open source and make available for free if the goal is to not let Google dominate geolocation data.
• acjohnson55 8y ago
  Sounds like good money after bad to me. But then again, they've got more than enough good money to spare.
• ingenieroariel 8y ago
  Apple realizing this was important makes me think it is even more important for all of us to have the same kind of data in the public domain. If someone can pony up 100K (what it costs to retrofit a car like the one pictured in the article) I could fund someone to drive it for 6 months around Barranquilla, Santa Marta and Cartagena in Colombia and put out an open dataset. I promise return the heavily used hardware after the 6 months and work with archive.org to publish it for posterity, then someone else can do the same in another country. Even if it takes us 30 years, it's worth doing.
  • mackrevinack 8y ago
    well there is always mapillary which only requires a single smartphone camera at the least. some people go the extra mile and mount a camera pointing each direction, others use 360 cameras. you can also upload dash cam video and it will extract photos from it. its sort of like quantity over quality. google/apple map cars record great quality but there is too much area to cover so they can only update maybe every few years. (some places still arent on google street view yet). whereas most people have decent cameras on their phones these days so the area they travel around could potentially be updated more often, just with lower quality the photos are analysed in much the same way as described in the article... faces and licence plates are blurred, a (rough) 3d point cloud is made, street signs are analysed and objects are segmented (which they will be using for. unfortunately mapillary is not public domain but its still a better system than each company recording their own streetview data and keeping it to themselves. it just seems ridiculous for each company to put so much effort into creating a full detailed map of the world when they could all just be contributing to one map (like openstreetmap)
• artemisyna 8y ago
  This has to be part of Apple's AR play. I'm pretty amazed they didn't do this sooner, honestly.
• Beefin 8y ago
  I’ve had plenty of experiences comparing google maps and Apple maps in turn by turn directions, and found the Apple version always took a detour to get to the same direction. This, combined with further antecdotal experiences like friends getting lost with their Apple map app open leads me to steer far away from Apple maps (atleast for walking)
• Operyl 8y ago
  Man, I can't even count the number of times that Apple Maps has sent me to the wrong block for a business. I give up, open Google Maps, and figure out exactly where I need to go. When you live in the suburbs, with giant shopping centers every block, and 30-40 stores in each, it does get a little old.
• balls187 8y ago
  I really like Google Maps, but it's not enabled for CarPlay, so having Apple Maps upgrade to a near 1:1 feature set with Google would be welcome.
  • mrep 8y ago
    Fortunately for you (I already switched to android to get google map car support), apple is planning to support google maps in IOS 12: http://thenewswheel.com/third-party-navigation-apps-like-google-maps-and-waze-are-coming-to-apple-carplay/ http://thenewswheel.com/third-party-navigation-apps-like-goo... Although, if you are willing to check out android and a Google service fan, I highly recommend the pixel 2 or upcoming pixel 3. I tried the HTC one and a Samsung galxy s4 and switched back to Iphone due to shovelware/inevitable slowness in the past. The pixel 2 though is just as fluid though as my iphone 6s and every Google service works better since it is designed by Google through and through. I cannot confirm it won't slow down like my past phones in a few years so take my opinion with a grain of salt but I am super happy with my decision so far. Also, considering that android is much more open to choosing app options, Apple definitely seems like the predominate shovelwarer company if you prefer Google services since Apple tends to force their own apps onto you in their ecosystem.
    • balls187 8y ago
      Oh sweet, Google Maps in carplay. Hopefully won't require a new-headunit.
• symfoniq 8y ago
  Now if they’ll just rebuild the MacBook Pro from the ground up...
• lechiffre10 8y ago
  Wouldn't it make more sense for Apple to acquire Mapbox
• cimnine 8y ago
  One of my favorite features of Google Maps is the one-finger zoom: Tap anywhere on the map and then make the scroll guesture (it feels like a double-tap, but the second tap is a swipe up or down guesture instead). Because I usually operate my phone with one hand only the "pinch-to-zoom" guesture is just a pain (especially when you're carrying something in the other hand) and zoom buttons are easy to miss (e.g. while walking). This guesture also works to zoom in and out in Google Chrome, yet I don't think I've seen it in the Apple world yet (except of course in products made by Google for Apple devices).
  • heed 8y ago
    Apple Maps has this gesture now too.
• DonHopkins 8y ago
  In order to satisfy my desire to rage against the machine, I like to set a destination in the opposite direction of where I'm driving, and listen to the voice navigation system desperately try to talk me into making a U-turn. It would be even more satisfying if the speech synthesizer's tone of voice grew increasingly frustrated and baffled, as I ignored its futile pleas while driving further away from my stated destination.
• myrandomcomment 8y ago
  Using car play as nav the one thing I want more then anything else is the equivalent of the google offline maps download. Sometimes there is no signal and that sucks..
• anonfunction 8y ago
  Living in the United States both google and apple maps have been really good for a long time. After moving to Vietnam I’ve found both to be not accurate. Many times I’ll find a place on google then have the map show a completely different address and street then the actual address.
• ornel 8y ago
  Google Maps, last time I checked, is extra bad in third-world rural areas. Next to useless when the pavement disappears and it's all dirt roads, which is a lot of the world in poor countries. I guess there are no Starbucks, i.e. not enough people to sell stuff to.
  • mrep 8y ago
    So which app is better?
• daveheq 8y ago
  Well what do they expect when they're not Google Maps?
• auslander 8y ago
  Good, less privacy data for Google ! For emails, iCloud is already there, no GMail needed. Now, dear Apple, make an Apple search engine and all my data will be in hands of privacy conscious company, not interested in selling it for Ads.
• thelastidiot 8y ago
  One sensible plan would be to make Apple Map available on Android so they could capture twice as much data and user feedback than they can today. I hardly can see Apple winning that big data game vs Google. What's next? Fixing Siri and launching a better search engine? What a waste of talent time.
• dvcrn 8y ago
  I like Apple maps and use it instead of google maps for most of my things. Yeah it has its problems and I sometimes need to fallback to google but for most of my uses it’s good enough. I hope Apple will put a bit more love into maps going forward
• gkfasdfasdf 8y ago
  As an avid Google maps user, this is fantastic news. More competition means Google maps will have to keep getting better.
• deftturtle 8y ago
  Partner with OSM and let users easily contribute to map edits and business info. Problem solved.
• joshe 8y ago
  Apple's web javascript mapping free tier is huge (just announced at WWDC). Apple 250K map views / *day* Mapbox 50K map views / month Google ($200 credit buys you) 28k map views dynamic on web / month 267 times more free tier than Google, and 150 times more than Mapbox. Can't find pricing after the free tier, maybe they'll announce it after the beta is over. Once out of beta this would be a good choice if you have a lot of map views.
  • askvictor 8y ago
    Google's used to be a lot more generous. Apple's will be less generous when/if more people start using it.
  • ksec 8y ago
    Can I use this outside of Apple Ecosystem? On Android or Windows? Of are the Map Views strictly Apple devices only?
    • Aaronn 8y ago
      Sure, you can use it anywhere. It is just a JavaScript API. https://vasile.github.io/mapkit-js-demo/map.html https://vasile.github.io/mapkit-js-demo/map.html https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mapkitjs https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mapkitjs
• heipei 8y ago
  Damn it, for a second there I read "Apple is rebuilding Macs from the ground up" :(
• tokyodude 8y ago
  I've got 100s or possibly 1000s of place markers in Google Maps. I wonder if it's time that mapping apps start developing a standard for exchanging data? The GDPR mentions data portability. If I can't import my place markers (with notes and categories) it would be as bad for me as not being able to import my contact list into a new email client.
• ksec 8y ago
  It Is a little hard to understand, how 6 years went by and they still have nothing to show for. The only map I find that that good enough is in China. Mainly because there are only a few Data Sources and they are all backed by government. Other location, I have yet to hear a case where Apple's Data is better then Google. It has been going for long time. For example in Japan, where Apple has 50+% market share, has a Mapping services that is utter crap. Ata Distance [1] has been covering everything Apple in Japan, and I think they are doing fine there because everyone uses Yahoo Map. My problem is these sort of rebuilding from ground up ( Which they state started 4 years ago ), is going to take years before it is any good. I doubt they could get it near to their current 3rd party Data sources within 3 years. And possibly another 3 years before it reach better than current solution. [1] https://atadistance.net/category/maps/ https://atadistance.net/category/maps/
  • celeritascelery 8y ago
    Interstingly, Apple maps has my subdivision but google maps doesn’t. I have even submitted feedback to them about this. Which means whenever I want to give someone my address I need to tell them to use Apple maps.
  • freetonik 8y ago
    >Other location, I have yet to hear a case where Apple's Data is better then Google. Given the locked-in nature of iOS and proprietary integrations, Apple Maps doesn't have to be better than Google, it doesn't even have to be as good as Google. It just has to be okay.
    • ksec 8y ago
      And It is good enough mostly in US, UK only. ( And China ) Others are being left frustrated how unusable it is.
• ksec 8y ago
  This is may be a silly question to ask. Apart from Google, and Apple. What other Mapping solution are there that has its interest to be the best Mapping services? OpenStreetMap is good but far from competitor to Apple or Google.