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I've Paid $18,000 to a $24,000 Student Loan, and I Still Owe $24,000

• beegeezuz 8y ago
  Capitalism is great, down with the commies!
• raverbashing 8y ago
  Ah student loans, the magic money factory (for the lenders, that is) preying on youth ignorance. And young people seem to feel a kind of pride in knowing jack nothing about loans and interest calculations and "only the payment matters" because hey, math is hard and is not "cool". And "nobody told us how to calculate that" well, it's not like there are no ways of finding out. But it seems the smart way is to default on this (as long as it doesn't affect the co-signer, or the co-signer should default on it - if possible - as well) .
  • mehrdadn 8y ago
    > But it seems the smart way is to default on this And then what?
    • raverbashing 8y ago
      I'm not sure about the specifics of student loans, so below might be different (Edit: see hextinium comment): Lenders usually sell non-performing to a collection agency where you can negotiate a discount or they can try to execute it in court (where they need to prove they actually own the loan - for a lot of home loans this was not the case )
      • mehrdadn 8y ago
        Can't speak for every kind of student loan, but AFAIK at least federal student loans are not like other loans. They are notoriously difficult to wipe away. I recall reading that a judge will only forgive it if there is no chance you can ever pay it back, or something like that. Search online for the specifics. You cannot treat them like other kinds of loans.
        • labster 8y ago
          For a normal loan, the game theory pits the lender against a future bankruptcy court, and they have to decide if they'll get more money by reducing the debt, or if going to court is the best solution. Not so for student loans; in the U.S. they typically cannot be reduced in bankruptcy court. So the choice becomes a simple one of cooperate=1, defect=2. Well, okay, it's not that simple. We don't yet have hereditary debt, so the debtor can still choose defect by killing themselves, reducing the amount the lender can collect. Debtors usually consider the cooperation strategy the better one.
          • mehrdadn 8y ago
            > We don't yet have hereditary debt, so the debtor can still choose defect by killing themselves Well that escalated quickly...!
          • chrisbennet 8y ago
            The author of the article wouldn’t have escaped the debt even by dying - her parents would still be on the hook. It’s not “hereditary debt” but it’s close.
          • deleted 8y ago
            [deleted]
  • Hextinium 8y ago
    Even if you go into default because it is a student loan the IRS will garnish any return and send it to the creditor and of course your credit score will drop. Doing so may force a more reasonable interest rate than what you previously. I am interested if anyone on here has taken this route.
    • UncleEntity 8y ago
      Nope, they just resell it repeatedly tacking on ~$1,200 each time. I once saved up enough to pay off my last loan and they resold it before I could get a check in the mail which meant I didn't have enough money so I was like "screw those people" and bought a car instead. Probably not a good plan but, you know, screw 'em. Don't even think they bother to send a bill anymore since they'd have to fight with the IRS to (not) get money out of me.
  • Camillo 8y ago
    > the magic money factory (for the lenders, that is) And for the universities.
  • camgunz 8y ago
    You can't really default on student loans. Even if you go bankrupt they don't go away. It's created a huge amount of moral hazard for lenders, and this is the result.
• SamReidHughes 8y ago
  It sounds like the real culprit's the university that charged a ton of money for a useless education.
  • qaq 8y ago
    hmm did they force her to get one?
    • VikingCoder 8y ago
      How is there not enough competition to provide a good education at a lower price? It shouldn't be this hard to find a good, affordable education.
      • qaq 8y ago
        It is easy there are many good online options in many cases with very reasonable cost.
        • VikingCoder 8y ago
          Just to throw this out there, The experience of living in a dorm, and socializing with people... That was the best time of my life. I wouldn't trade that away, if I could help it.
          • qaq 8y ago
            well I guess the question is what can people do if they can't afford to pay for that option.
            • VikingCoder 8y ago
              The question I'm trying to ask is, Why isn't there enough competition to provide "live at a good, affordable college"?
      • 8y ago
• zinckiwi 8y ago
  One of the main reasons I will be strongly encouaging (read: insisting) my fortunately-dual-national kids to avoid university in the USA. It was staggeringly expensive when I went to US college in the 90s. Now it beggars belief.
  • Taniwha 8y ago
    We moved back to NZ when my eldest hit high school, here college is much cheaper with interest free loans so long as you stay in the country and pay them off as required (or are in school), we used a small portion of what we made from selling our Bay Area home to pay off our kid's loans free and clear when they were done - best decision we ever made
  • CalRobert 8y ago
    Not only that, some of us worked our asses off to give our kids a non-US nationality so this would be an option for them. The EU has plenty of problems (and funny enough, I really, really miss junior colleges; they're great!) but the day my daughter's EU passport arrived I felt a huge sense of relief.
• wfbarks 8y ago
  maybe you shouldn't have gone to private school, or not gone to college at all.
  • itake 8y ago
    I am also wondering what degree she go where the starting pay is less then $20k / year.
• talltimtom 8y ago
  An interesting article about a person who got every warning, knew all the details of her own undoing but is trying to claim ignorance after the fact to put the blame on the “big bad industry” who really did nothing wrong here. She’s a fool who complain that her principle hasn’t gone down when she never actually paid anything towards it. And yes she knows that and yes they and her parents, old teachers, friends and any advicers she has ever talked to explained that the basics of a loan are that you pay it down and pay interests on it. She’s mortified that a variable rate interest loan has a rate that varies.... and sure as hell she remembers them telling her that, she’s just playing dumb to sound the victim. Oh and ofcause they make the details of the loan “almost impossible to find!....” in a tab called details on their website....... or if in doubt you know, you could call them. What sort of black hole level of entitlement is she living in? Education is costly in the USA, this is horrible and wrong. But hell Tesla’s are costly too, you’d get no sympathy if you buried yourself in debt to buy a Tesla and then didn’t pay off the principle for years. In the ideal world she could have been denied the loans on the basis of her lack of ability to manage her own financiancials. But then it would not be the land of the free, and she would just have been complaining about that instead.
  • CogitoCogito 8y ago
    > But hell Tesla’s are costly too, you’d get no sympathy if you buried yourself in debt to buy a Tesla and then didn’t pay off the principle for years. Legally you _do_ get more sympathy given that you are at least able to discharge those loans in bankruptcy.
    • sdhgaiojfsa 8y ago
      We've been over this a thousand times: you would not be able to get loans for education if you could discharge them in bankruptcy. They would become a super-toxic bet. They would have to be conditioned on the ability of the student to make significant earnings, because otherwise the optimal play for many people would be to get the education, and then declare bankruptcy.
      • viraptor 8y ago
• yuhong 8y ago
  Trivia: A lot of the student loans that are paid off when Bitcoin etc prices increases are private student loans.
• jstewartmobile 8y ago
  Financing is just all-around bad news that should be strenuously avoided. At the same time, I'm sure her deal with the devil was very clearly spelled out in 8pt type. It is very hard to wade through that much whining when it comes from a literate and numerate middle class kid, in a western country, in the age of Google.
  • lloyd-christmas 8y ago
    > in the age of Google Rose colored glasses. It's probably worth keeping in mind that the internet of endless information is still relatively new. I went to college in 2003. Google was a freshly minted verb[0]. "The age of Google" probably didn't even really start until after I had graduated. I know that it wasn't part of my college life. I think it was my sophomore year when "wikipedia" started showing up in school ethics codes. The countless blog articles available to you right now simply didn't exist. You assume this info was at everyone's finger tips, but the people who wrote most of those articles probably graduated after I did. ROI of education really only became a conversation topic after the financial crisis started to display a permanent effect on the workforce. My younger brother is about the author's age, and we were still ingrained with the mindset of "that's just what you do after high school". The pro/con list had very few cons until relatively recently. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/the-first-use-of-the-verb-to-google-on-television-buffy-the-vampire-slayer/373599/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/the-f...
    • jstewartmobile 8y ago
      I also attended during the dark ages. Even then, the value proposition was questionable to anyone paying close enough attention. Books on it had been written. Talks on it had been given. This lady was just too focused on the gold at the end of the rainbow to care.
• firic 8y ago
  > Kids are taking loans out at 17 or 18 that they won’t be able to pay back until they’re 40 or 50. This is the big problem. Calling 18 year olds, kids, is basically saying that 18 year olds aren't old enough to be considered adults. Either you get the freedom of being an adult along with the responsibility or your leader decides what is best for you and you no longer have freedom. Even more so in her case. Her parents are ok the hook for repaying the debt. That means that they (ages 40 I guess) looked at the contact and thought it was a good deal. Is the author suggesting that 40 year olds shouldn't be allowed to get loans? If that isn't enough she describes defaulting on a loan as something okay. She decides to fly abroad and just assumes that the loan holders won't require her to start repayment. But even before that, she realizes in the middle of her undergrad that the tuition is to much. But she decides to get a loan on bad terms because she doesn't want to loose her friends. Come on. She decides to get a terrible loan because she is to shy to make new friends. For poor people, who know how to handle the freedom of being an adult, student loans could be exactly what they need to succeed in life. But for irresponsible people like the author, I don't think any laws can protect her from herself.
  • viraptor 8y ago
    Is it really relevant if they're called kids? You're given a choice of not getting education and having limited job options, or taking a loan with unknown (variable) rate, for unknown amount (uni can raise fees), getting an unknown benefit (who knows what the job market will be like in a few years, maybe there's another global market failure). The lender is happy if you repay, and happy if you don't (the loan is gov guaranteed anyway, this is pre-2010 Sallie Mae) You say "But for irresponsible people like the author, I don't think any laws can protect her from herself." which is crazy considering one side of this problem wouldn't exist if the laws didn't explicitly enable this. Banks giving student loans risk next to nothing. If you think this person was so irresponsible because obviously she can't repay, what is your comment on the bank. Surely they know the market even better and reviewed her family finances - why would they give her a loan in the first place? Are they irresponsible adults as well?
    • user5994461 8y ago
• charlesdm 8y ago
  Can't she refinance that floating rate debt? 11% is horrendous.
  • thesimon 8y ago
    Is it easy to get a regular loan of >$25k with no securities though?
    • charlesdm 8y ago
      I'm not US based, so I don't know. But I don't see why it wouldn't be possible if someone has been employed on a decent income for years. Even paying 5 or 7% would be better than 11%. But I would assume she has looked into that.
      • IanCal 8y ago
        One problem is that she has a lot of debt and a history of missing payments.
    • cobookman 8y ago
      I was offered a 25k interest only loan with no securities. It had a 5% interest rate. I'll mention that I have 0 debt, a high 750-850 credit score, and relatively strong income. Its this kind of stuff that enables the rich to just get richer. I'd assume ppl with 10mil+ of net worth can get way better rates & loan amounts than I. However you could easily refinance that loan and get a better rate these days.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • megaman22 8y ago
      It's almost exceptionally easy to get an unsecured personal loan for that amount of money through Prosper or LendingClub or Lending Tree if you have good credit. I just did it a few months ago to do some renovations and put a new heating system in my house.
• dixie_land 8y ago
  I'm pretty surprised to learn student loans accrue compound interests. I genuinely thought they're illegal in consumer lending.
  • pg_bot 8y ago
    I don't think I've ever seen a bank offer anything other than compound interest on a loan. It's definitely legal and most likely the default for every account.
    • dixie_land 8y ago
      Interestingly I came across this article https://thefinancebuff.com/is-home-mortgage-simple-interest-or-compound-interest.html https://thefinancebuff.com/is-home-mortgage-simple-interest-... I think as the article pointed out we might've different standards in referring to what is compound interest. But my original point is that I thought consumer loans would not incur interest-on-interest (as in if you're late in payments for your car loan, the interst "compounds" due to higher unpaid principal, but the missed interest would not add to the principal), which seems not be the case for student loans as per the author.
• Glyptodon 8y ago
  She went to private schools. No sypmathy. Though I do think variable rate loans are kind of outrageous in a general sense. And I find it curious that one was the only option.
  • quadrangle 8y ago
    Do you have sympathy for other irresponsible victims? If an party-hard sorority girl is flirty and into drinking and then gets raped, no sympathies? Honestly, it's harder to have sympathies in such cases, but we should still work to find it and to focus on criticizing the actual abusers who took advantage of the irresponsible victim.
    • Glyptodon 8y ago
      I really think you're stretching. One of America's diseases right now is the entitlement of those who think they that they're obligated comfortable success if they check the right boxes without ever stopping to think or do the math. And when they dig a hole, I do not feel sorry for them. (And I don't think it's remotely like rape.) If her article was about how she was stupid, and how somebody could avoid making the same mistakes, and how she'd learned, I might be sympathetic. But it's not. I fail to see how making bad, but clearly demarcated, decisions, is remotely like rape. (So on some level, yes, I don't see her as a victim.) (And yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder because I could see this kind of thing coming and so turned down the University of Chicago to go to a state school for less than half the money - my best guess is I'd have graduated with something over $120k in debt had I accepted, from the state school I graduated with almost zero.)
      • quadrangle 8y ago
        It's perfectly fair to criticize her article, criticize her decisions, emphasize the responsibility that people take in watching out for their own long-term best interest… But when financial institutions are making massive profits off of other people's irresponsible decisions, you can't ethically just say that's fine. The ethical way to deal with irresponsible people is to teach them to be responsible, not to exploit them. As long as powerful interests are profiting off of irresponsible people, those interests will actively seek to encourage continued irresponsibility…
• kelnos 8y ago
  It's a bit sickening to see many the replies here crapping all over this woman. I suspect that most (all?) of us are quite a bit older than 17, and have taught ourselves a decent amount about finance in the meantime. And yes, I'll admit that my knee-jerk reaction is often similar to the negative ones here. But then I really think back to when I was just graduating from high school and figuring out how to pay for college. I didn't understand much about finance, or about loans. I had no idea how repayment worked, or how the majority of each payment would go toward interest for a long time. I didn't know how much in total I'd pay, or even how to figure that out. My parents (who co-signed some of my loans) tried to help me, but their understanding certainly wasn't all-encompassing either. There's pretty much no such thing as "financial education" in K-12 schools in the US. They don't even teach you how to balance a checkbook, let alone tackling the concept of debt. I was lucky. I was lucky that my interest rates were low, and stayed low. I was lucky that I got a stable, well-paying job (with regular raises) after college and was able to exceed my monthly payments. It was all luck. I could have just as easily ended up in a bad situation. If I had ended up in a bad situation, I hope I would have been mature enough to accept at least some of the blame for it. But that doesn't mean predatory lenders are off the hook. That doesn't mean it's ok to avoid telling a potential customer exactly how repayment works, ahead of time. That doesn't mean it's ok to charge exorbitant fees and penalties that make it harder to repay. That doesn't mean it's ok to make someone jump through hoops to access and understand detailed information about their loan accounts. And the lack of up-front, plain-language transparency is disgusting. If you're not swayed by that, let's talk about outcomes. We're raising a generation of new adults who will be crushed by debt well into their 30s and often later. These people can't meaningfully participate in the consumer side of the economy while they're forking over half or more of their paycheck to lenders. If there are massive defaults, that will be a huge drain on resources: economic, financial, and educational. And the next generation of students just won't bother being students. They'll see what happened, and forego higher education. In some cases, that will be ok, and they'll be financially better off for it. In most others, though, it will just weaken the level of education in the US, which hurts science, engineering, research, technology, everything. Even if you have no compassion for the students with crushing debt, at least consider the scope of the problem all this causes, and be pragmatic about it.
  • 8y ago
• Illniyar 8y ago
  As others have mentioned, this seems like a test case issue of bad financial planning. There are lots of ways to get into such a situation, not all of them student loan related. Frankly if you look at only the numbers, then 170,000$ total on a 95,000$ is what you'll get for a 20 year loan with 6.5% interest (give or take). From what I can tell from the article she will be paying it for roughly 20 years. If you take a fixed-rate payment (I.E. paying the same amount monthly for the entire loan, rather then paying the same percentage of the remaining loan every month), this is exactly the situation you'll get - I.E. the first few years your payments go almost entirely to interest and only later years you pay for the principal. These are very common financial instruments that you can get from a bank or credit company. Especially if your parents are cosigned. I think the main takeaways are rather these: 1. How in the world is a variable interest loan based on LIBOR (which the article alludes to) gets to 11% interest? that's prime + 8%, at least. That's practically loan-shark territory. How is a government led (and financed) aid program have such an insane interest rate? 2. When you take a loan for investing (such as education, or starting a new company), I.E. leveraging, you should always consider whether the future value of the investments is higher then what you borrowed. I'm assuming she studied for jobs that don't pay well. 3. American education is insanely expensive. It's probably cheaper to just study abroad for a few years and come back (like she did for her master's degree).
  • pandaman 8y ago
    >How is a government led (and financed) aid program have such an insane interest rate? I don't think Sallie Mae is providing financial aid. According to Wikipedia[1] it's providing private student loans. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallie_Mae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallie_Mae
    • Illniyar 8y ago
      Sallie mae provided "guaranteed" student loans, where if the borrower is bankrupt, the government takes over the loan. The government also sets the interest rates for these, as I understand it. I thought she took one of these, though maybe she took just a regular private loan? but those aren't usually referred to as student loans (and will banks actually give those when there are guaranteed ones available?)?
• NightlyDev 8y ago
  How hard can it be to understand that businesses doesn't just hand out money without expecting anything in return? This is just stupidity and carelessness... And clearly refinancing would be a good option to get a way better interest.
• konraditurbe 8y ago
  > If, like me, you didn't receive a ton of financial education in high school, and you're wondering how that's even possible, welcome to my boat. While it is true that high school definitively needs a "basic finance" class (where taxes, these loans, how to save, how banks work... are explained) she got a TON of warnings, and she took a loan.
• waffleau 8y ago
  Hacker News has a pretty well educated community, so it's not surprising that the general response seems to be that this was an obvious outcome. But this story is not unique to this woman. There are a huge number of people that seem to be in the same situation, and it's dismissive to just say that people should be more educated. People aren't rational agents. They suck at making decisions about their long term well being. They're told that the best way to support their future is to go to university, so they take out a loan under the assumption that once they're finished, they'll earn so much that paying it off won't be an issue. And if you're not particularly financially literate, you might assume that this is fine since everyone else seems to be doing it. And you might also assume that they wouldn't lend you money that you couldn't repay. The reality is there's an information asymmetry in favour of lenders. They know better than you how likely you are to repay your debt. And their incentives are structured to maximise their return, not clear your debt. So if the best way for them to make money is for you to not be able to pay off your debt, that's what they'll try to do. The harder it is for you to understand what you're getting into, the better for them. The less financial literacy you possess, the better for them. I'm not arguing that the author shouldn't bear responsibility for her decisions. Of course people should understand the things that they agree to and meet their obligations. But there is a calibration problem when the pursuit of an education can lead to three decades of financial hardship.
  • analog31 8y ago
    To me, this seems like a possible case where people are rational agents, but they don't have comprehensive information. Selling a financial instrument that someone can't possibly understand is unethical, and should be illegal. My own rule of thumb is that the higher responsibility goes to the bigger guy.
    • qaq 8y ago
      Why? google search of student loans problems turns up literally a ton of results on very reputable sites discussing these issues. If a person can not be bothered to make a simple google search before making a 100K decision I don't think the problem is the bank.
• smsm42 8y ago
  Now let me ask this - if there would be a proposal in Congress to disband Sallie Mae and do away with these bad loans, just not let people take loans that they can't pay - which side of it she would be on? I have little doubt she would claim this is terrible and makes only rich people to afford education and ruin the country and so on. And would never vote for any representative that proposes that. But when she gets exactly what she, and her parents, and everybody around them, enthusiastically supported and voted for - subsidized loans that there's no way they could afford otherwise and that are way beyond her means normally - it's suddenly terrible and somebody else's fault.
  • cimmanom 8y ago
    What about a proposal to return to subsidizing higher education the way that most developed countries do, so that prohibitive loans are no longer necessary in order to acquire it? In the Information Age, isn't having an educated workforce a public good?
    • shaftoe 8y ago
      So the solution to a problem of unaffordability is to have Uncle Sam pay for it and take it out of the tax payer's pocket? That lady couldn't pay for her expensive education, so I should? Since I graduated 15 years ago, the public University I went to has increased costs significantly and massively improved student amenities. Baristas and rock climbing walls and whatnot. Why? It improves rankings and people will still pay for it, subsidized by student debt. If, say, people actually had to be able to afford the bill, I bet all the expensive nonsense and massive staff beuracracy would shrink in no time and the schools would go back to costs being classrooms and books.
      • keithpeter 8y ago
        UK: over the last decade or so we have moved from a grant based/free tuition system of finance for university students to a (capped) fee paying/state loan one. Not sure which is best. The move the fee paying/state loan has seen the salaries of University managers rise significantly. The part time degree sector has been significantly reduced in volume. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40511184 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40511184 I do personally think that the classrooms + books + dorm/shared house route with subsidy for less affluent ones has benefits.
• chrisbennet 8y ago
  Once upon a time, kids (in the US) could afford to go to state schools without racking up horrendous debts. Now, the in state tuition in my state (NH) is over $28K a year. Education was once a societal priority. Maybe we should, as a society, value educating our populace as much as say, we value imprisoning them? [1] It wouldn’t surprise me that we societally do value it but something is thwarting us from getting what we value. [1] $30-$60K year https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-cost-of-a-nation-of-incarceration/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-cost-of-a-nation-of-incarce...
  • simonsarris 8y ago
    Hello from Amherst NH! I think the problem is the opposite, college as presently exists is something we value far too much. Lots of people go to college and learn essentially nothing. I'd fully support free tuition if and only if college was actually hard and rigorous. Instead for most people it's daycare and I don't think we should subsidize daycare for 18 year olds. https://medium.com/@simon.sarris/higher-education-erodes-a7c9983692e0 https://medium.com/@simon.sarris/higher-education-erodes-a7c...
  • cobookman 8y ago
    Georgia does it right. The Zell Miller & Hope scholarship + cheap cost of living makes university incredibly affordable. I literally made money while attending Georgia Tech for my engineering degree. 100% of my tuition was paid for by the state
    • mhluongo 8y ago
      Important to remember it was paid for from Georgia lotto proceeds, making it a tax on the poor to pay for middle-class education. Disclaimer: Hope recipient
      • cobookman 8y ago
        Tax, "a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.". Nothing about the lotto is compulsory or based on income. I don't think its fair to say that its a "tax on the poor". This scholarship has been great for the state overall and was a smart move. Georgia Tech is now a top 5 engineering school in the us, and top 10 worldwide. UGA became a highly ranked University. The tier 3 schools became tier 2, and tier 2 schools tier 1. If it wasn't for this scholarship you'd have overall worse schools, and a brain drain on your hands.
• originalsimba 8y ago
  How is this not a scam.
• USANEEDSHELP 8y ago
  The real problem is that in America we should have access to free public education, but we don't. Instead we have a for profit system that ruins the middle and lower class. What I mean by free is that the funding can be diverted into our education system from other sources, like the military budget, but alas it seems that somebody or something doesn't want an education populace, but a debt-slave one.
• SagelyGuru 8y ago
  It is a pity that the expensive colleges don't at least teach their students about the principles and practice of usury.
  • mattm 8y ago
    The expensive colleges benefit from this practice just as much as the companies issuing the loans.
    • nighthawk1 8y ago
      Yes, this easy credit environment allows colleges to rapidly raise tuition. They love it.
• ShavuosParty 8y ago
  Looks like her dad had the answer: > My father, an electrician who worked nights driving Amtrak trains to put himself through trade school, only earned his associate’s degree in his mid-30s. She, too, could have started with a 2 year associates degree.
• ShavuosParty 8y ago
  Seems like if I were an employer, the way to find the smartest people is look for resumes where the first two years were done at a community college, and then continued on for two years at a state / public college.
• k__ 8y ago
  The USA sounds like a crazy place to me. They are rich and modern but got guns and expensive health care and education. Such a crazy mix. I'm from Germany and never fired let alone held a gun. I don't know anyone who did. Only police. I paid about 4000€ for my degrees and got all my health costs covered by the public.
  • DanielBMarkham 8y ago
    The Allies "fixed" Germany. Hitler took all of your guns and all we wanted was a population that was peaceful enough that we wouldn't have to worry about another ground war in Europe -- at least for a long while. It seemed to have worked out. The mess in education and healthcare in the U.S. is mostly due to different partial solutions being applied by different actors at different times, and at different political levels. Each solution kinda sounded good -- but had flaws. And the feedback loop was glacial. This is quite different than having one party mostly in charge of everything for decades at a time. One wag said the U.S. doesn't have a healthcare system; it has four healthcare systems. (Each with different rules, goals, managers, and so forth, and each acting somewhat at odds with the other) The education mess, which is just as horrible in my mind if not worse, is a bit simpler. If I had to reduce it all to a blurb, I'd say "One side wanted higher education for all no matter what", "One side didn't care about that, but wanted people who lend money to students to be assured of getting paid back no matter what". Each side had a really good point. I will not debate those here. But combined, we ended up in the worst of both worlds.
    • Havoc 8y ago
      >The Allies "fixed" Germany. Yep. That's totally what makes modern Germany work...
      • deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      • DanielBMarkham 8y ago
        Are we discussing what makes Germany work? If so, I missed it. It was a history question. I like history, so I tried to answer as neutrally as I could. If you don't like the answer you are welcome to provide another answer. When you look around and say "Why are these things different?" then start hitting the books to learn why. If the OP's only point was that Germany is better than the U.S., then I guess no further learning is necessary. You are making a value statement. Discussing such statements online usually are a waste of time.
• arca_vorago 8y ago
  This thread is a perfect example of everything wrong with the hn crowd. Yall make me sick.
  • whataretensors 8y ago
    Elaborate?
    • panzagl 8y ago
      Not GP, but the tone is that everyone else is stupid and emotional, especially those who want to pursue non-STEM (for a very narrow definition of STEM)/finance degrees, and that everyone obviously had the same advantages the average HN poster had. Unfortunately I'm old enough that I'm now looking at putting my kids through college, and the answer of 'you have to stay in town and take CS' seems ridiculously narrow. Even state schools run around $40K a year if you're out of state, and unfortunately my state college system is overrun with trust fund stoners. I was lucky in that I went to school before higher education in the US was turned into a money tit, and it kills me that I cannot offer my daughters the same opportunities I had.
      • drivebycomment 8y ago
        https://www.bustle.com/profile/kaitlyn-cawley-1912533 https://www.bustle.com/profile/kaitlyn-cawley-1912533 "She has a bachelor's and a master's in comparative literature from The American University of Paris and Trinity College Dublin, respectively." My daughter's in college, so I know personally how expensive college is in the US. I know of many kids who did have to make tough choices due to financial constraints, even for middle-class families. And you simply don't choose comparative literature as a major and study in a private school in Paris and then Dublin, if you can't afford. There are clearly cheaper (but possibly inferior) options. This person clearly chose more expensive option and now complain that the choice was too expensive. It's like buying a Mercedes and then complain that auto loan payment is too high.
        • anoncoward111 8y ago
• 505aaron 8y ago
  I find it hard to feel sorry for her. This is what happens when you only live in the moment. Going to grad school out of the country is exciting. However, doing it without any research on your loans was dangerously impulsive. She didn’t state the reasons, but I would guess it was to impress or stay with friends. I lost all sympathy when we she decided to live in one of the highest cost of living cities in the world. It is a simple choice. Delay satisfaction or live outside your means. She displayed a consistent pattern of living outside her means. Don’t be surprised when you realize that you’re not rich and these actions have consequences.
  • learnstats2 8y ago
    "When I was 18, I fully believed that taking out student loans was the only way to achieve my dream and my parents’ dream for me — to transcend my working class upbringing." This is not living in the moment, not at all.
• ryanlol 8y ago
  So uh, why doesn't she move out of the country? She already got her masters abroad. An US citizen with a masters degree could basically immediately get a 5 year Schengen visa. She’s obviously an extremely privileged person who could go anywhere she wants. It just seems stupid to stick around and keep paying. Edit: Almost feels like it’s somehow offensive to suggest that there’s life outside of the US.
  • kingosticks 8y ago
    > An US citizen with a masters degree could basically immediately get a 5 year Schengen visa. Maybe I'm wrong but I was under the impression you needed a job (sponsor) first. Why should a US citizen waving a masters degree around be given the right to work?
    • ryanlol 8y ago
      You get a job seeking visa, and find a job. Not at all hard stuff for a white highly educated american. Far easier than paying off her debts anyway. I’ve helped friends with this stuff recently and all I keep hearing is how they get special treatment because they’re the only white english-speaking people applying.
• lb1lf 8y ago
  This is -ahem- exotic, seen from Scandinavia. In Norway, student loans are granted by the state; roughly speaking, the terms are as follows - -They're personal; noone acts as collateral. Neither do you need to provide any - however, if you default, they _may_ go for your assets, within reason. -No interest while you're under education (within reason; if you're delayed significantly, interest may start to accrue.) -You get approx. $14,000/year, intended to cover living expenses, study materials, beer &c. -Once you graduate, interest starts to accrue (at the time being: 2.08% per annum; after a few months, you have to make monthly payments. -If you're unemployed, you can apply for postponement of payments; interest keeps running. -If you're ill for any significant duration of time, you can apply to have interest stopped, as well. -If you default on your loan, the lender may go after assets - bank accounts, vehicles, homes &c - but only after a long and involved due process, and they need to try to work with you to find a solution which isn't as drastic.. Edit: Also, the terms, including the caveat that interest rates may rise &c are being spelled out - more or less literally, they go through great pains to ensure you know what you're getting yourself into - and you get an estimate based on the expected length of your studies as to how much your monthly payment will be+when you will have repaid the loan in full.
  • TrickyRick 8y ago
    Sounds very similar to Sweden apart from the fact that interest accumulates during your studies here. Still with the low interest rates of the last 10 or so years they've been in the <1% range for a long time now. And since calculations are based on the average interest rate of new government bonds over the last 3 years it's likely to stay low for a while.
    • kalleboo 8y ago
      The interest rates in the Swedish student loan system are extremely low even within the context of Sweden's low interest rates - I'm paying back my student loan as slowly as possible since the interest on my savings account is actually higher than the interest on the loan!
  • ataturk 8y ago
    Yes, yes, we know all about "how it works in Europe" and it's famed effects. We also know how high your taxes are to pay for all of it. At least you still have loans that make people responsible for outcomes unlike all the "this is free, that is free" types who usually post on here about their utopias. The article is bs--who worries about $24K? People bad at math, that's who! She didn't know the interest rates? She couldn't figure out a loan amortization table? Her dad couldn't? The article is so disingenuous. There are so many ways someone even with zero skills could pay off the loans. It's not a question of being able to, it's a question of not being so lazy, inanimate, and "poor me." There are immigrants who come to the US with literally nothing, work 2-3 jobs and in just a few years are buying a business.
• lawn 8y ago
  As a data point I'm from Sweden and I have loans of around 300k SEK (34k USD) and my interest rate is 0.13%. Yes the rent is so low you shouldn't ever repay it faster as it's even better to just stick it in a savings account despite the poor interest of 0.7%.
  • grecy 8y ago
    I'm from Australia, my 5-year Software Engineering degree netted me a loan of about $20,000. The loan has no interest, though it is indexed with inflation. If I earn over $54,000 AUD in any year, I will pay a few extra percent in income tax per year until it's paid off. If I never earn over $54,000, or pay it off so slowly it will never actually get finished, then so be it, and that's fine. I think everyone in the Developed would outside the USA sees that when you make things for-profit (Health, Education, etc.) the result it always more profit.
• lykahb 8y ago
  Does the average career of a graduate with comparative literature degree provide enough income to pay off a debt of this scale? If this were a medical or law degree, the decision to take the loan would be more justified. I wish the high school kids were taught more about career and finance. Obtaining higher education is not a goal that should be achieved by any means, it is simply an optional tool for building the career.
  • arbuge 8y ago
    For medicine or law, the typical debt numbers are alot higher than $24k: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/1-million-mistake-becoming-a-doctor/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/1-million-mistake-becoming-a-do... https://www.studentdebtrelief.us/news/average-medical-school-debt/ https://www.studentdebtrelief.us/news/average-medical-school... https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertfarrington/2014/12/18/law-school-and-student-loan-debt-be-careful/#3fc430dc11f9 https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertfarrington/2014/12/18/law...
    • lykahb 8y ago
      The article title is a bit misleading - it refers to one particularly bad loan. Below she disclosed that her total student debt is $95k. This makes the ratio of debt to projected income quite poor. Also unlike the high earners she'll have to pay more toward the interest than principal.
  • bluntfang 8y ago
    When did college turn from learning institutions into career factories?
    • bonniemuffin 8y ago
      When it got this expensive. It's hard to imagine a private university providing enough value as a "learning institution" to justify the cost to the student. Community college, on the other hand, is a wonderful learning institution--my local CC has continuing ed classes that are basically free for city residents, and anyone can learn nearly anything there, without going into life-altering debt.
• deleted 8y ago
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• tinus_hn 8y ago
  Why can’t you just refinance a loan with this kind of interest?
• arenaninja 8y ago
  I graduated nearly the same year as the dates listed in the article, and I find it hard to sympathize with the author. Why did she go to private university? There's no shortage of public universities with substantially better financial terms unless you get a FULL RIDE to a private institution. When she had $67000 she decided to take another $24000 loan? With a variable interest rate? In the year 2010, 2 years after the financial crisis of 2008 she didn't understand how a variable interest rate was disastrous? I need to either suspend disbelief to entertain that idea or deduce that the author was beyond clueless -- she was actively disinterested in her future. There is zero useful introspection on lessons learned or things she could have done better. Her takeaway in all this: > If I can appreciate anything about this struggle, it’s that it was ultimately in the pursuit of something bigger than I would have achieved if I had taken a job just out of high school in the Bronx. I think many of us here agree there is an issue with predatory lending and student loans. The problem I have with this article is that it sets the debate back. For the civil rights movement, the NAACP very carefully considered and skipped a number of people to challenge segregation laws until Rosa Parks. This woman is no Rosa Parks.
  • drelihan 8y ago
    Variable interest rates are only disastrous if you ignore affordability in the future as rates increase. You should know at what rates the adjustments will hurt you and at which rates the adjustments will break you. Downside if that most people only base affordability on the current rates ( if they even consider affordability at all ).
  • bane 8y ago
    There's also ways to consolidate loans under more favorable conditions. Basically have somebody else buy out your loan and pay them back at a better rate. Also, just pay it back early yourself. The best way to turn the high price of student loans around is to deny the student loan industry their future earnings. The best way to reduce the prices at private institutions is to not go.
  • ouid 8y ago
    because she was 17 when she made the decision.
• drelihan 8y ago
  A basic personal finance class in high school would go a long way. Anyone take one of those in high school ( or even college )?
  • arenaninja 8y ago
    I graduated around the same time as the author, and I can't remember whether it was my loan provider (MyGreatLakes) or FAFSA, but I had to take a quick financial course online where every term in my student loans was spelled out: including interest rates, interest-only payments, amortization schedule, etc. I'm surprised if this isn't standard, because it should be (with a refresher course every 6 months)
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• michaelbuckbee 8y ago
  It's easy to nitpick at this particular author for the choices she's made but I think that skips a really important aspect of the larger situation: structural changes to the economy/jobscape that are working against people. The article I keep re-reading is this one from the highline - https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millennials/?mobile=1 https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millenn... If the author had made the exact same college/career choices 20/30yrs ago - the outcome very likely would have been much different.
• calimac 8y ago
  CONGRATS! you now understand the time value of money and usury. Conversations like this will allow us to hopefully evolve beyond the current fiat central banking system. Read the Federal Reserve's Primary Mandate. Full Employment. Your student loan is a great example of the systematic slavery each one of us are born into. Change will only come from education. Keep the commi bastards from trying to claim utopia via central planning. Thank Bill Clinton and JP Morgan Chase for the Student Loan Reform Act of 1993 - Amends the Higher Education Act of 1965 ( HEA) to replace the Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) Program, under which ... https://www.congress.gov/bill/103rd-congress/house-bill/2055 https://www.congress.gov/bill/103rd-congress/house-bill/2055 Loan limits and underwriting guidelines greatly expanded post 1993. If you want to see the effects lookup the WSJ's article on this sometime back in 2008-2012 or charts of student loan origination volume from 1980- current. https://www.newyorkfed.org/studentloandebt/index.html https://www.newyorkfed.org/studentloandebt/index.html Skyrocketed Tuition Chart: (see increase post 1993) http://www.businessinsider.com/this-chart-shows-college-tuition-growth-since-1980-2016-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/this-chart-shows-college-tuit... Lumina Foundation's Student Loan Explosion Study: How did we get here? https://lookingback.luminafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Chapter-1-loans-viewing-guide.pdf https://lookingback.luminafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/...
• megaman22 8y ago
  No shit, pay more than the minimums. That's personal finance 101.
• neil_macintyre 8y ago
  There is a lot of talk in this form about lack of information regarding student debt in this form. I will be starting an undergrad degree next year and am wondering what are some good resources that provide information about the dynamics of student loans?
  • anoncoward111 8y ago
    find out if the debt is in your name or your parents' name find out if you need a cosigner find out the rate and if its variable or static find out if theres a prepayment penalty find out if interest compounds while youre in college once youve found all that out, take the total balance and put it into a compound interest calculator. if you owe $25,000, you'll end up paying $30,000 or more usually find out if you'll have a job where you can pay that debt off quickly
• FloNeu 8y ago
  Reading something like this is just horrible... As someone who received a mostly free education I can only shake my head in disgust at these companies and a government allowing people to be extorted like this...
• privateSFacct 8y ago
  I'm a dual citizen. The European model is wonderful, but there are also some things to be careful of here - the authors article is basically a story of her own experience - with some key facts omitted. The author never discusses the degree they got for all this expensive private education! That is critical point. She doesn't discuss what her own parents suggestions beyond her father correctly pointing out the idiocy of these loans! I find it hard to believe they pushed for a degree that gets you an office job at $20K? That makes no sense if you know working class or first gen immigrant families. The only angle here is the big bad system doing her in. Seriously working class parents are generally focused on solid white collar jobs. Ie, nurse, accounting, construction management up to doctor. First generation immigrant families - even more intense in this area Even a masters in something boring like accounting or nursing (blue collar white collar jobs) pays way better - you should expect $100K within a few years accounting side and RN's can easily do $74/hr - which is reasonable. You'd be starting at 40 - $50/hr. In European system, much of education is free, but access to courses depends on your performance in high school. The germans here will know of the "Abitur", high school graduation and university entrance degree all rolled into one. And for selective (high cost to state) upper education - the bar is not low to get into programs! The European model also has a lot more vocational training and its not looked down on as it is here. So it's a different model. I went to private school -> and picked the one that gave me those most financial aid by far! I ALSO applied to state universities. For those who thing the University of Michigan, University of California, University of Virginia etc isn't "good enough" for them - get a grip. School is what YOU make of it most of the time and sometime I wish I'd gone to a state university
  • evoloution 8y ago
    You are missing the point of how strongly people in US still believe that you can achieve the American Dream if you choose whatever field, just work hard and are good to your job. Most Americans are not consciously aware of the class system that exists in contrast to most Europeans and other foreigners. There is also a disproportionately higher percentage of people that seek true satisfaction from their jobs (live to work) than seeing it as a job (work to live). It is not even PC to say that your parents are working class or you are 1st generation immigrant so I advise you to become a nurse, doctor or a plumber. In addition, as history has shown again and again people can and will do poor or risky financial decisions if given the opportunity across the whole spectrum (e.g. from payday loans to very expensive underperforming actively managed funds with huge fees). For a financial institution it may make sense to have 11% interest rate and a 20% chance that people will default before paying at least the principal but these interest rates make life unbearable for the people who have them and is detrimental for the society. Finally people would probably make better decisions if they had an advisor like you but truth is that most people that come from low socioeconomic status either cannot imagine their selves being for example doctors (they even don't know anyone, an uncle or a family friend) and they have no access to advisors like you from their environment.
• tedwasright 8y ago
  >Make only minimum payments >Upset that loan isn't decreasing in principle value >Blame everyone, but yourself for your dumb choices and unwillingness to change lifestyle to pay off loan
• gigatexal 8y ago
  We need to teach basic financial literacy to our kids. This is my takeaway from this article.
  • quadrangle 8y ago
    If you add "…because there are a lot of usurers out there who will exploit you" I agree. I mean, we don't want victim-blaming and that's that. We want to teach all sorts of safety practices to kids too, but that doesn't mean if someone is abused or mugged etc. that we focus only on the victim's actions and skip fighting the abusers.
• jamisteven 8y ago
  Stopped reading at "Variable interest rate" and "may have been explained to me at the time (I truly don't remember), but I know I didn't fully grasp what that meant". Uhhhh yea well, you not grasping "what it meant" and not doing your due diligence is what got you into this mess, jackass.
  • bedhead 8y ago
    Maybe you haven't read but we're in the age where "personal responsibility" doesn't exist.
    • miketery 8y ago
      You're not wrong but you're not right either. There are organizations that prey on people because they estimate they won't do their due diligence. These organizations are leeches on our society.
  • sockgrant 8y ago
    That’s what you got out of the article? I think the point of the article is that we shouldn’t have predatory loan companies that are going after kids who are trying to get higher education.
  • Flozzin 8y ago
    She's not smart. No amount of college is going to fix that problem either. She states that she knew her parents thought this was a bad idea. But she wanted to take the loan because if she didn't she would have to transfer colleges or drop out, and those two choices meant she would lose friends. She chose a college she couldn't afford, and when the warning sirens were blaring in her face she doubled down.
  • tw04 8y ago
    In her defense, when I went to college, we had financial aid advisors whose job it was to explain the options. I can say unequivocally I was not prepared to make that decision on my own at that age. Years later, it came out that Banks were giving those advisors kickbacks to steer students to their most profitable loans. In typical fashion, the banks and schools paid a small fine and promised not to do it again, with 0 recourse for the students. Fortunately I didn't get stuck in something this ugly, but i definitely could have. Our schools do a VERY poor job of educating students on fiscal responsibility. It's actually something I think every high school should have as a required course.
• aceon48 8y ago
  Maybe someday we will actually enact policy to prevent predatory lending practices to our youth. We could fix this really fast to by allowing people to default on these loans.
• reacharavindh 8y ago
  As harsh as this may sound, she is not that smart, and the whole article reads like an implementation of natural selection with respect to personal finance. Sure, it is debatable that cost of U.S education is too high and loan companies are predatory. But, her case is not one that is emphasizing either of those problems. She chose really expensive education options that wouldn't lead to a reasonable return, especially ones she could not afford, and didn't read the papers she was signing, and chose to top it off with another loan when she realized the earlier one was bad. After all of these, the article pleads sympathy from readers trying to shift the blame.
  • zackbloom 8y ago
    1- You shouldn’t have to be smart to have a happy life. 2- The purpose of adolescence is to make mistakes and learn. Having those mistakes color decades of your life is not a great situation.
    • justherefortart 8y ago
      3 - Maybe if discharging in bankruptcy were a real option, and not saddling kids with this ridiculous debt for life were possible they'd be more responsible in their lending. 11% on a fucking loan you can't get rid of? Obscene.
    • reacharavindh 8y ago
      Nothing is stopping her from having a happy life, except her own idiocy about spending money that she doesn't have on something that doesn't provide value in return. Think about it as an expense than "education", then you start to see the mistake for what it is. 2 - of course we make mistakes and learn. Small or big is up to us. But, the individual should own it, and not write an article about how unfair life is that it let them make those mistakes... I can always buy an expensive with the rent money for the entire year, but that's not life being unfair to me. It's my failure to see where the path leads in the short term.
• ggggtez 8y ago
  Some comments are discussing doing this to a 18 year old, but it seems to me she is saying this happened in her 4th year. So really it would be when she was 21-22. Not to defend predatory lending, but let's be a little more intellectually honest.
• wdb 8y ago
  Ah yes, student loans when I was studying the interest on the loans were much lower then what you were getting for a savings account. So what we did was loan money, put it on the savings account, earn the 4-5% interest and at the end of studying we would pay off the loan straight away. Keeping the profit :)
• calimac 8y ago
  In a day of total technological revolution; why is it that none of you intellectual founders, vc's, bootstrappers, or hackers have not developed a trustles distributed standard to eliminate the debt slavery we have been in for eternity? WHY? It's not a difficult problem. Why? Are there nefarious forces stopping you from succeeding? Would you feel purposeful if you developed the technology to eliminate the current fiat debt slavery of the existing financial system? I challenge any of you who reading this to fully grasp the problem and organize a solution.
• Kyragem 8y ago
  Poor decision making. Probably worse than getting suckered into a variable rate loan was to go to a private school. You end up overpaying for pedigree and prestige but various studies have shown there are only minor differences in career salaries when you go to a more affordable state school, certainly if you take into account having smaller loans.
• ohazi 8y ago
  Why are the interest rates on these student loans so outrageously high when they aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy? Shouldn't they be pegged a hair above the prime rate, since the holder is more or less guaranteed interest payments for life?
• protomyth 8y ago
  So, what is your rule of thumb for how much college debt is acceptable? I'm suspect its about 1.5x your expected starting salary[1] with the degree you are going for. At some point, I need to go through the job stats and do some loan calculations. 1) I mean average, not your dream job in SV for example.
• drivebycomment 8y ago
  https://www.bustle.com/profile/kaitlyn-cawley-1912533 https://www.bustle.com/profile/kaitlyn-cawley-1912533 "She has a bachelor's and a master's in comparative literature from The American University of Paris and Trinity College Dublin, respectively." This person chose comparative literature as major, studied abroad and did master's, with $95k loan, and claim that this was "to transcend my working class upbringing". EDIT: Removed the part that probably caused the flagging.
  • dang 8y ago
    Please don't post denunciatory rants to HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. Perhaps you owe no better to comparative literature majors, but you do owe this community better. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    • drivebycomment 8y ago
      Thanks. Sorry about that. Removed the denunciatory part.
• dwaltrip 8y ago
  This issue is fascinating to me as it so perfectly straddles the dichotomy between personal responsibility and harmful systemic problems that individuals can't manage alone. Both sides have very strong points. Of course, with this view, some sort of moderate compromise seems necessary. However, I wish I had more I could say about the issue with confidence.
• gfodor 8y ago
  Removing default risk from loans provided to young people for education is so perverse it almost goes beyond words. Re-introducing the ability to default would actually set a fair price on these loans -- interest rates would skyrocket, tuition prices would go down, or students would shift towards cheaper universities. If doing so results in massive outflows of tuition from universities for relatively worthless degress, and a large number of students deciding to forgo college altogether, that is what you call a "market correction" and would be extremely healthy. The reason we are in this mess is because the loans are not priced properly because, other than the debtor dying or being unable to provide a steady income stream, or the government deciding to reverse policy, there is zero default risk. These loans are already yielding 8% in a market that has a risk free rate of about 3% over 30yr, and these loans cannot be defaulted on without a change in government policy! This should tell you just how fucked things are -- if students seeking degrees that will earn $20-30k/yr could default on these loans they would probably have a 20-30% interest rate (if not higher) or probably just wouldn't even be offered, since the default rate would be hilariously high, so the higher education market would be forced to correct. Loans should not be a de-facto life-long indentured servitude to a lender. It's an abject moral failure of our society that this has been allowed to go on as long as it has. The day of reckoning will come eventually, maybe in a year, maybe in a decade, but when it does it's going to leave a gigantic crater in the interest rate markets. This does not mean I am sympathizing with the people who have made poor financial decisions. Once corrected, these individuals should be free to declare bankruptcy and default on these debts, like any other, and pay the price for their actions in being unable to secure further lines of credit, potentially for the rest of their lives. This has real consequences: no credit cards, no car loans, no mortgage on a new house. This is the price we all agree to pay in the case of being unable to pay our debts: we cannot borrow money for many years if ever again. However, except for these poor souls, borrowers do not agree to being lifelong slaves if they make one poor financial decision or fall upon hardship that prevents repayment. The loans are mispriced, and the lenders should have had higher interest rates on them knowing the risk of default was extremely high on a liberal arts major going to school for $50k/year. I am simply recognizing the fact that in this sector, the market has been distorted and is deeply corrupted by the removal of a fair market for student debt. These banks deserve to be wiped out on these loans.
• RickJWagner 8y ago
  I'm just not sympathetic. College isn't meant to be free, and choosing private colleges without considering the costs just isn't somebody else's fault. I've got 3 kids to put through college, the first just finished freshman year. It's fine-- he broke his hump studying for a good ACT (this led to good scholarships), he's working internships over the summers to raise cash. My wife and I cover what's left, it's not too much to bear. My son's room-mate is doing even better. He's in Army ROTC, his school is completely paid for. We're not wealthy and college is not breaking us. If there's a college debt emergency, it's an avoidable one.
• anoncoward111 8y ago
  I enjoyed the depth and honesty of this journalism. It's good writing. She needs to refinance her loans. My mom refinanced hers from 8% to 4%. Or, she should pay the student loans with a credit card or home equity loan, and then go bankrupt.
• scarface74 8y ago
  I have no empathy for anyone who gets in debt to go to a private college instead of going to a state school. Even better most state 4 year colleges have partnerships with even cheaper two year colleges where you could stay at home. I went to a no name state school and within three years of graduating I was making just as much as students with tens of thousands in debt and had no debt.
• ttonkytonk 8y ago
  Didn't read the article, but this makes me wonder if compound interest is ethical, as opposed to simple interest.