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iOS 11.4 to Disable USB Port After 7 Days: What It Means for Mobile Forensics
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- atonse 8y agoDoes this mean that companies will now try to exploit the USB/Lightning driver to gain access? The cat and mouse game continues.
- xnyanta 8y agoI don't thin there would really be anything to exploit because it sounds like the data lines in the actual usb connection are turned off and only the power lines remain enabled to allow for charging.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- kiddico 8y agoI'm really not a fan of the hardware design choices of apple devices recently, but the focus on security/privacy might pull me back in.
- sdtransier 8y agoMaybe I missed this in the article, but does anyone know if this feature can be turned off? Or if it's enabled by default? What happens in the scenario of a consumer having an old iOS device sitting around, they forget the passcode, but now can't reset it using iTunes?
- pilif 8y agoAs far as I understand, there's still the hardware key combination to put the device into DFU mode. In that mode it can still be connected to and a new firmware can be written, but no access to the data is possible. So in order to un-brick an old device sitting around, you put it into DFU mode (the key combination varies from device to device) and restore it that way. Of course you don't ever get your data back, but that's totally the expected behaviour.
- Matt3o12_ 8y agoDo you have any source for that information? I am very interested in that as well but couldn't find any information regarding that so far. I have always thought (though without any source) that they re-flashed the iPhone by putting it into the DFU mode (and tricking the iPhone bootloader into accepting their key) and then just brute force the key.
- ghostly_s 8y agoThere is no scenario which allows re-flashing a device from DFU while retaining user data. This only appears to work in typical user scenarios because iCloud or iTunes creates a backup from the unencrypted device as a first step before flashing it.
- sdtransier 8y agoThat makes sense that DFU would still work, since that would let the data continue to be protected and wiped.
- zwily 8y agoI’m guessing you would have to restore the device.
- cromwellian 8y agoThis seems like it’ll just make police departments go to a judge more often alleging probable cause immediately, and judges might be more inclined to grant given the time pressure, thus paradoxically it might end up with more phones being opportunistically subject to warrants by the police as the justice system would be given less time for duebl consideration. A “ticking bomb” tends to produce anti civil liberty behavior on the authorities. they should have a setting to disable it almost immediately. I almost never us the data connection on my iPhone usb except for headphones, yet another downside of losing the audio jack :)
- jrowley 8y agoIf you're really concerned about people exfiltrating data off your phone via usb, fill the lightning port with epoxy and just use wireless charging and bluetooth headphones.
- cromwellian 8y agoThat only works if you have an iPhone X, and why should I destroy a phone permanently for this when bette software design and hardening could fix it.
- jbrooksuk 8y agoOr 8.
- floatingatoll 8y agoTo those considering doing this, please keep in mind that if you do this, you will not be able to "unbrick" or receive authorized repairs for your phone. That's probably exactly what's desired, but as "wireless charging" models are nearly a thousand dollars, epoxyer beware.
- MBCook 8y agoThe iPhone 8 starts at $700, the same price the iPhone has been for a long time.
- Havoc 8y agoGlad to see Apple is at least trying to protect their users.
- e12e 8y agoSounds like they just patched a glaring security hole, late in the game? I'm not even sure how useful the "7 days" thing is - it's certainly better than leaving "permanent" keys on various "once trusted" computers. But still leaves the window wide open to sneak-and-peek to mirror the drive of a matchbook left in a hotel room, and then later acquire the phone. So better than keeping the old behaviour which was obviously broken, I guess?
- urda 8y agoHow is Apple "late in the game" with a feature that Android has never shipped?
- e12e 8y agoLate in the sense that they out of convenience over security circumvented device protection. I'm not even entirely sure for whom they prioritzed convenience.
- acdha 8y ago> But still leaves the window wide open to sneak-and-peek to mirror the drive of a matchbook left in a hotel room, and then later acquire the phone. MacBooks have full disk encryption so you’d have to break that, too, but since we’re talking movie plots rather than real-world risks for most people take a moment to think about what else they could do with physical access: install a camera to record passwords, drug your water glass, or simply have someone demand you unlock it or else. If you’re Jason Bourne you need more than a consumer OS gives you out of the box.
- e12e 8y agoA disgruntled spouse swiping your phone and running up to a awarded hotel room to hook it up to a trusted macbook protected by your secret "1234" password isn't exactly Jason Bourne territory. I suppose they might know your phone passcode as well - all I'm saying is that a phone in general use will have been unlocked the passed few days, and is likely in proximity to a trusted device. Now, we don't know how the greylock stuff works (afaik) - so maybe this will harden phones against imaging with such tools. And maybe not. I actually have a hard time seeing how this is: "aimed squarely at police". If you're picket up at a demonstration or traffic stop - is it really that common that they won't get to your phone in 7 days? They're only allowed to hold you for 48 hours or so anyway? Don't get me wrong 7 is better than forever - but I'd like to see it made available as a user setting; eg never / 30 seconds etc. As for this not being available on Android; my impression was that given an encrypted, locked, Android phone with pin/pw lock and debugging disabled - you'd need to unlock before being able to access phone data via USB? Now if debugging is activated, I believe a "trusted computer" (anyone who holds the keys) can gain access even if the screen is locked?
- Ajedi32 8y agoHow is this different from how Android works, where you have to unlock your phone and explicitly tell it to connect every time you want to use a USB connection for anything other than charging?
- DaiPlusPlus 8y ago(The elcomsoft article is down for me, so I don't know the details but) I think it's to do with DFU ("Definitely Fucked-up") mode in iPhones that lets you install a new OS version when the main iOS won't boot-up successfully.
- gruez 8y agoit's probably not talking about DFU mode >To improve security, for a locked iOS device to communicate with USB accessories you must connect an accessory via lightning connector to the device while unlocked – or enter your device passcode while connected – at least once a week "accessories" makes me think it's a "regular" connection, not the recovery one.
- ancarda 8y agoDo you know if Lightning headphones count? Aside from charging, it's the only thing I plug into my Lightning port.
- pwinnski 8y agoNope. What changes is that any device for which you've previously been prompted to "Trust this device?" saying yes will no longer make the iPhone trust that computer forever, only seven days. Unless you unlock the iPhone again.
- mynameisvlad 8y agoIf you're actively using your device, this wouldn't apply anyway. You unlock your device far more often than once a week.
- 8y ago
- davidmr 8y agoI’m so unused to seeing a corporation act in the interests of their customers explicitly counter to the wishes of law enforcement and the intelligence community that I’m racking my brain trying to think of ulterior motives that explain why Apple might have this. Either way, on the surface, I’m quite pleased by this development.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y agoNo kidding! Everyone in my immediate circle has iPhone, I get the occasional friend with the “Android better”... but it’s things like this that make me remember Apple is a company that is very clearly for money which means for the most part they really need to deliver to the customer - where google is a company that tries to do everything they can to imply they aren’t about sales they “give away” this and that, it’s a “free and open” ecosystem etc etc. I’ll take upfront and honest at the issue of more limited and expensive any day.
- mcny 8y agoNow that you mention it, I wonder whether the security thing plays into the reason why I need to remove and add apps I compile myself every n days? This limit is pretty much my only gripe against Apple at this point but if it is for privacy/security, I don't know what a good balance would be... Sorry if I sound like a broken record [1]. I don't own an iOS device at the moment. I would love to get an iPad but it kind of sucks that I can't compile and run my own apps. [1] Previously on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16993157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16993157
- dcow 8y agoThat one is about platform control. It's one thing to build a platform that only executes signed code--that's good for security--but it's another thing to refuse to give users control over who the trust authority is for their system. Apple still maintains that under lock and key effectively refusing to let you run your own software on your iPhone.
- jrowley 8y agoGoogle's Cached version if you're having issues accessing it: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2018/05/ios-11-4-to-disable-usb-port-after-7-days-what-it-means-for-mobile-forensics/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...
- mediocrejoker 8y agoIs it just me or is the google cache link timing out as well?
- eugeniub 8y agoIt's happening to me as well.
- reaperducer 8y agoClick "text-only version" in the Google cache header.
- ihuman 8y agoYour link isn't working either. Here is the text-only version: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2018/05/ios-11-4-to-disable-usb-port-after-7-days-what-it-means-for-mobile-forensics/&num=1&strip=1&vwsrc=0 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- gruez 8y agoHow is this relevant when law enforcement can buy a $15k device that unlocks the phone?
- KenanSulayman 8y agoBecause "GrayKey" is using USB which won't work if USB is ... turned off.
- osteele 8y agoThe article speculates that this breaks GreyKey. Presumably that was the direct motivation for the change.
- samfisher83 8y agoYou could just pull the flash chip and image it. You would need to figure out how to get the key, but pulling the flash chip and reading it doesn't look too hard if you can use a heat gun. If you lived in Shenzhen you could go the market and buy a flash reader. Strange Parts is youtube channel where the guy does this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP-OPXK2ig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP-OPXK2ig
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- monocasa 8y ago> You would need to figure out how to get the key I mean, that's the $10M question. Literally. There's probably $10M in it for you if you can answer that (and have the right connections to build a company around it)
- redbeard0x0a 8y agoThe filesystem is encrypted and the key is in the secure enclave. So pulling the chips and reading them directly no longer works. I think this is how the FBI got into the bombers iPhone after losing the court case to try and force them into releasing an iOS version that allows unlimited pin tries.
- stefan_ 8y agoThe PIN or any other user secret can't decrypt the contents of the flash chip. So turning the device off and removing the flash just makes it infinitely more difficult.
- samfisher83 8y agoWhy would make it any more difficult? You can just put the chip in place after you are done.
- bialpio 8y agoI guess because now you have no way of exploiting any bugs that might've been exploitable. Within 7 days the phone will still try to talk to others connected to its port, after 7 days it'll just charge. I assume that "power off" will also disable data over the port until the phone gets unlocked?
- linarism 8y agoIs there any security reason someone would purchase a security-focused Android phone (Blackphone, Blackberry) over an iPhone?
- devcpp 8y agoHardened kernel (e.g Coppherhead OS), custom open-source ROM to disable all telemetry and audit the code (among others), FOSS APK provider (f-droid), disabling online tracking (AdAway, AFWall), full filesystem access. iPhone hardly has any of this. Note that this is true of any bootloader-unlocked Android phone, not just security-focused ones.
- tpush 8y agoVery telling that this is downvoted.
- rphlx 8y agoIn general HN has a strong bias toward Apple over Android RE: security. Many of the points are entirely valid, but it's also true that some important advantages on the Android side (such as those listed above) as often understated or overlooked here. For me, a closed-source OS is a dealbreaker on its own, regardless of any other major HW or SW advantages.
- linarism 8y agoPlease bear with me, I'm not OS-savvy, are many of these features designed to protect against untrusted processes? If both phones have no additional apps installed, what would be the most likely way for the data within to be compromised? Is it fair of me to believe it's fair to distinguish telemetry and security as separate concerns?
- post_break 8y agoWill this cause warrants to be rushed through and much more often? Just to get the phone unlocked in case something is in there, even if there may be no burden of proof. Better to overnight it to a facility with a tool to unlock it and sign off on a quick warrant.
- billabul 8y agoif the device time is synced from elsewhere maybe one could spoof a ntpd server and provide a time in the past?
- adrianmonk 8y agoAnd/or spoof a cell tower. If they are careful with their implementation, they could protect against it. The naive way is to store the time of last unlock and simply compare that against the current time, but there are other ways: (1) Once 7 days elapses, set a flag that can only be cleared by unlocking the device, and check that flag in addition to the time. (2) If there is an internal hardware clock that isn't synced to real time, just count relative to that clock. You don't need to know absolute time to check how long it has been since last unlock.
- acdha 8y ago> (2) If there is an internal hardware clock that isn't synced to real time, just count relative to that clock. This is known as a montonic clock and it’s been built in to most hardware for exactly this reason. Mach, Linux, etc. have encouraged use for anything where things like leap seconds or time changes aren’t desirable.
- adrianmonk 8y agoMinor point of clarification, but I meant something slightly different than a monotonic clock, hence why I said hardware clock. For the approach I described, a clock would need to keep ticking while the system is powered off or in various power-saving modes. And it shouldn't get reset at boot time. Not all monotonic clocks have both these properties. (Obviously iPhone isn't Linux, but one example is that Linux's CLOCK_MONOTONIC seems to lack both properties, and its CLOCK_BOOTTIME seems to lack the second one.) Though if you have a clock that resets at boot, you can work around that by disabling USB data on bootup and not enabling it until first unlock.
- acdha 8y ago
- Zenst 8y agoOne test I would carry out and well within the remit of geeks and enforcement - would be a femtocell/base station with a time update (which mobiles accept blindly if you let them). Forever keep connected devices in a Groundhog day. That would certainly be the go to test for many I suspect, a tried and tested hack from days of old, brought into modern times.
- Operyl 8y agoThey could just as easily use time since boot, which is usually a separate counter.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- tinus_hn 8y agoThey could do a lot of things. The question is if they do.
- JustSomeNobody 8y agoOne would hope they would have a better solution than DateTime.Now - dateOfLastUnlock.
- qntty 8y agoWhy not 7 hours or 7 minutes or immediately?
- ovao 8y agoWell, why not 7 days?
- qntty 8y agoThe advantage of a smaller time period is obvious: if 7 days is secure, then 7 hours is more secure. But presumably there's a good reason they chose that number, I'm just wondering why that might be.
- ovao 8y agoI assume it's a number they chose to strike a balance between security and eventualities that create support burdens. It could probably be user-defined, but when it comes to setting a one-size-fits-all default and offering users an option, Apple usually selects the former.
- jonknee 8y agoIt seems a reasonable default, but would be nice if there was a custom setting for a shorter time frame.
- ryanlol 8y agoYeah, 7 days feels awfully long. When would you actually need that? Edit: Okay, I suppose there might be an edge case where you break your screen and want to take a backup on an already paired device.
- axoltl 8y agoThere's a slice of the population that needs accessibility devices to unlock their iDevices. It'd be unfortunate if they couldn't unlock their devices anymore due to a security feature. 7 days sounds like a compromise between usability and security.
- kevin_b_er 8y agoThis doesn't quite sound as amazing as a first look, because this is not a full "data connectivity" kill. Data connectivity is always required whenever people use headphones due to headphone jack removal.
- mediocrejoker 8y agoHow do we know this feature doesn't also disable the headphones-over-usb if the phone hasn't been unlocked in a week? I don't think that would be a problem for most users either.
- floatingatoll 8y agoYou can install iOS 11.4 beta and find out one way or the other; it doesn’t seem like anyone has done so yet, and since no one thought to do so before today’s post, no one will know for 7 days assuming they start today.
- jonknee 8y agoBut you'd also need to unlock the phone to use the headphones... It is as it sounds.
- CodeWriter23 8y agoI assume so. Otherwise GreyKey could masquerade as a pair of EarPods to get authorized simply by plugging in.
- Rjevski 8y agoWell it could masquerade as a pair of EarPods and get access to the audio output yeah. But it still wouldn't get access to the iOS sync & backup/restore service (because normal EarPods have no reason to access that).
- CodeWriter23 8y ago
- ape4 8y agoThe time deadline might have some unintended consequences. Maybe law enforcement will proactively image people's phones early knowing it will be harder later. eg you are stopped at the airport. A judge may give give quick search warrants since its "now or never".
- vbezhenar 8y agoIs it known how those greykey devices even work? AFAIK iOS blocks many consecutive attempts to enter pin, so brute force would take too much time. It seems that greykey device can bypass this restriction using USB. Why Apple didn't just patch this vulnerability instead of disabling USB?
- pageandrew 8y agoTo patch the vulnerability, they need to be aware of the vulnerability. An individual who possessed such a vulnerability would likely be more inclined to go into business for themselves (such as the hackers that helped the FBI crack the San Bernardino iPhone, or the Israeli firm Celebrate) than hand it over to Apple for a one time fee. Although I imagine that Apple would probably pay pretty well for it. IIRC these sort of vulnerabilities don't totally bypass the phone's lock mechanism, but rather disable the pin code attempt delay and allow bruteforcing of the pin code via software.
- 45h34jh53k4j 8y agoOne time fee? Apple don't pay for such things. Possibly why there is a black market for iOS exploits.
- LeoPanthera 8y agoPlease don't just make stuff up. https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/04/apple-announces-long-awaited-bug-bounty-program/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/04/apple-announces-long-await...
- chrisfinazzo 8y agoThe bounty security program (announced at BlackHat 2016) was created to deal with these kinds of scenarios. They will pay depending on the severity of the bug and the affected subsystem. Of course, now that this mechanism exists, I'm just waiting for Apple to sue GreyKey and Cellebrite out of existence, confiscate all the devices, and charge the founders with aiding industrial espionage or overreach related to pursuing terrorism. (I'd also like to see the same thing happen with the NRA, but alas that doesn't seem to be in the cards for the current circus in Washington) The difference between more legit researchers and these guys is that they will work with anybody as long as they cut a check. Real R&D has more scruples than to do that.
- jld 8y agoSay a user drops their phone in a desk drawer and goes on an 8 day hiking trip. He/she comes back and can't remember their passcode. Is the phone now a brick?
- Hello71 8y agoPretty sure you can always wipe the phone.
- always_good 8y agoI was out drinking with my friends and had watched my buddy "draw" his pass code so many times (5x5 grid) that I tried my hand at it. After watching me try and fail a few times, he said "alright, enough" and took his phone back. At which point he totally forgot how to draw his own pass code after watching my attempts. We figured he'd remember it in the morning. But a day later he couldn't and had to wipe it. A reminder how fragile memory can be. What gave us a laugh was when a Tinder notification appeared on his home screen from the girl that was going to come out with us, but he of course couldn't get into his phone. By the time he reset his phone and reinstalled Tinder, she must've thought he stood her up: she'd already blocked him.
- KallDrexx 8y agoI would imagine that "disable USB port" doesn't mean it completely disables the power lanes, only stops responding on the data lanes. So when you come back from your 8 day trip you charge your phone, log in, and theoretically ios would re-enable the USB port once successfully logged in.
- PuffinBlue 8y agoNot sure why you're being downvoted, you're correct and it's stated in the article that if you unlock with a passcode after 7 days the USB port begins to respond again. Apple isn't going to design a feature that bricks a device after 7 days. It really simple: 1) No unlock for 7 days = USB turned off. 2) Unlock phone any time after 7 days (lets imagine unlocking at 12 days) and USB turns on. 3) Charging remains active at all times. Simple.
- 51Cards 8y agoThere are Kiosk uses of iPads where this could be an issue. Often those devices are mounted 24/7 inside a secure housing and left on but communicate with external devices. Now someone will have to reset them once a week. Edit: thanks for the clarification below. I had the implementation wrong in my head. And yes, I realize this is a fairly edge use case, just one that affects my industry.
- grecy 8y agoIf the edge use-case you have prevented is a drawback to the 0.000001% of users, I think it's worth it for the greater good, and obviously Apple does too.
- smogcutter 8y agoI wonder if just putting the power outlet on a timer would work. Cut power to the charger for a few minutes at night and you're good. Edit: disregard, I misunderstood the issue
- axoltl 8y agoThere's a way to disable the feature through MDM (Mobile Device Management), which you'd want on the kiosks anyway.
- mattpavelle 8y agoKiosks should be fine - I think you've missed some details on what is going on. The update won't lock iPads that are unlocked. If a kiosk iOS device is "always on" and never requires a passcode, then it it won't ever lock hence won't start the 7 day timer.
- djrogers 8y agoIf they're left on, they should be fine - it's when the device is locked and idle for 7 days that the port is shut down. Also, I'm not familiar with any Kiosk type implementations that use lightning for data xfer except POS devices, and thos would obviously be unlocked whenever they are in use - so again, no issue.
- donkeyd 8y agoBlog seems to be hugged to death, so I might be uninformed. What exactly happens after the 7 days? My girlfriend's iPad got blocked on vacation (bluetooth keyboard in a bag causing random inputs). To get it fixed, we needed to connect to a computer. Would this mean that if you don't get to a computer within 7 days it would be essentially be bricked?
- symmitchry 8y agoIf the device is not unlocked for 7 days, the USB port stops working (for anything but charging.) It won't brick the device, which can still be unlocked any time, it just prevents someone from taking more than 7 days to hack open your phone, via the USB. edit: so in your case, perhaps yes, you would have been hooped.
- freehunter 8y agoI would assume DFU mode would still work to reinstall the OS.
- CodeWriter23 8y agoCached by Google: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NNgpuVhqeM8J:https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2018/05/ios-11-4-to-disable-usb-port-after-7-days-what-it-means-for-mobile-forensics/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NNgpuV...
- plussed_reader 8y agoCan I still kick the device into recovery mode with a cable after 7 days with this mode? Or would I have to unlock the device to re-enable recovery mode?
- Operyl 8y agoDFU mode is a key combo on the device, so yes, you’d be fine.
- john37386 8y agoI would like to read this article but, the website doesn't load. I guess it's not optimized to front page HN. May I suggest to loadtest your website or article before posting it? https://ddostest.me/load-test/ https://ddostest.me/load-test/
- mdeslaur 8y agoCan a device still be wiped when this happens? I'm wondering how to recycle or recover locked devices if the USB port is disabled...
- wstuartcl 8y agoThe assumption is that the correct passcode will remove the usb shutoff. If you fail to enter the passcode in the required amount of times, you get a wipe. Many of the law enforcement ways to access these devices rely on the USB port being active to root the phone or reset it in a way that allows faster/more passcode attempts (or by simply letting it sit on a shelf for months or years until a known exploit allows access via usb.
- wstuartcl 8y ago... Every 6 days from point of collection: Place phone in caged room. Turn on your cell phone network interceptor device. Set interceptor's network time to device collection time. boot phone, await for it to update network time from cell interceptor. ... So many edge cases/ways to defeat this that need to be handled.
- tonyarkles 8y agoUnless it's actually just got a counter that counts up from the last time it's been unlocked. Powering it down wouldn't save you, because it requires an unlock at boot anyway.
- archi42 8y agoIf I understand iOS correctly, the reboot will cause the data partition to be strongly encrypted -- so that's worse. But maybe the device can be tricked into time passing reaaally slow?
- kstrauser 8y agoType "uptime" in your computer. Change the date. Run "uptime" again and note that it is the appropriate amount of time longer than the first report, even though the date is different. It's not always useful to assume that engineers will miss even the most obvious workarounds.
- keiyakins 8y agoOr it's checking the monotonic time, not using the synchronized time (which is probably recorded as an offset anyway)
- 88mxa7QbuDQWmxv 8y agoShhh! They're supposed to say it takes "2 Weeks" :)
- rad_gruchalski 8y ago403 Forbidden in Germany.
- THE_PUN_STOPS 8y agoSame in Northeast US on university WiFi.
- CodeWriter23 8y agohttps://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NNgpuVhqeM8J:https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2018/05/ios-11-4-to-disable-usb-port-after-7-days-what-it-means-for-mobile-forensics/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NNgpuV...
- tbyehl 8y agoWhy 7 days? I'd like a feature to never allow any USB communication until I've unlocked my phone, and then to allow it only for as long as they remain continuously connected. Or to activate this feature with 'Emergency Mode' (5 power button presses).
- CodeWriter23 8y agoThey can't because they deleted the headphone jack. Your earbuds would not function if Lightning was defaulted to off.
- tbyehl 8y agoSure they would, I'd just have to unlock after connecting them. Which seems like something I'd probably do anyways. Except I use Bluetooth headphones so I don't care about Lightning audio at all. Misplaced the stupid dongle within days of getting a jack-less iPhone...
- Rjevski 8y agoNot really. They could allow accessory protocols while disabling everything else. The only sensitive thing we care about is "usbmuxd" or whatever the protocol for iOS sync & backup is.
- Dylan16807 8y agoThat's not true, there's the large attack surface of those other protocols to worry about too.
- dolguldur 8y agoI concur, would be great if this feature could be enabled with 'Emergency Mode'.
- dingo_bat 8y agoThis is more or less what happens in android. The usb port is only enabled for charging, anything else requires you to unlock the phone.
- jiveturkey 8y agoi suspect this will be a net negative. now that law enforcement has a time limit, graybox sales will flourish, and law enforcement will access your phone ASAP before collecting other evidence. then the phone evidence itself will give them the clues they want and they’ll get the warrant after the fact. or the court may even be complicit and issue a warrant without enough supporting evidence due to the risk of evidence destruction.
- blueseaadmin 8y agoTwo ideas: What about paired hardware? Imagine buying an iPhone and pairing it with your charger and they share keys. Any other charger used would immediately wipe the phone. There could be settings to tweak this. what about wiping the phone if it has not been logged into a certain amount of time with a certain password (not normal PIN)? The current crop of phone busters completely bypasses the 10 wrong pin and wipe option. The idea is to immediately wipe the phone without using Find my iPhone (defeated with airplane mode).
- icebraining 8y agoWhat about paired hardware? Imagine buying an iPhone and pairing it with your charger and they share keys. Any other charger used would immediately wipe the phone. There could be settings to tweak this. Open the phone, plug charger directly to battery.
- blueseaadmin 8y agoDisable that function.
- icebraining 8y agoWhat function? I'm talking about physically opening the hardware and sticking two cables to the battery connections.
- parliament32 8y agoA step in the right direction, but I'd like to see this interval reduced (12 hours? 1 hour?) or brought down completely (I should have the option to require an unlock before any connection is established). There's no reasonable use case where I would want to make a connection while not wanting to unlock the phone.
- woodrowbarlow 8y agothe quote from apple specifically mentions USB _accessories_. i would guess they have things like headphones in mind, and it's reasonable to expect that if i have music playing with the screen locked and i connect a pair of headphones, the playback would switch to the headphones. 7 days still seems much higher than necessary.
- dvcrn 8y agoAs someone who only uses wireless accessories (including a wireless charger), I’d love to be able to configure this interval or require it immediately.
- MaikuMori 8y agoCan someone explain how it is better than android? When I plug in my android, only charging works. I need to unlock the phone and enable data to make the data connection work. There is never trust this computer prompt. I have to do this always, even when due to bad wire the connection is lost for a split second. Some people mentioned that android never shipped this feature and that Apple is first, but it seems to me that android never had this problem in the first place.
- csense 8y agoThe obvious flaw in a time-based lockout is that it needs a trusted measurement of the current time. If law enforcement wants to bypass this, the obvious approach would be to just remove the battery (to remove power from any internal RTC chip) and put the device in a Faraday cage (to block external time signals like GPS and the cell network). Then the shutdown clock would literally stop ticking until they turn it on again.
- mvid 8y agoThat drastically increases the difficulty in forcing access to a phone. Regional police departments likely don't have a faraday cage and phone disassembly resources on hand, while they may have been sold on grey lock or some other automagic tool. Sure, this might not stop the NSA of FBI, but if it limits the threat vector to 3 letter agencies, it is still a win.
- DavideNL 8y agoi was wondering about this as well... so perhaps the only point of this "band-aid fix" is that if the user hasn't connected his iPhone to his computer for 7 days (i'm guessing most non-tech people rarely connect their phones to their computer), the chances are greatly increased that the lightning port is already disabled once it's captured by law enforcement/whoever.
- amhokies 8y agoIt's not 7 days from when you last connect it to a computer. It's 7 days since the phone was last unlocked.
- DavideNL 8y agoHmmz, i'm not convinced. The quote in the article says: “To improve security, for a locked iOS device to communicate with USB accessories you must connect an accessory via lightning connector to the device while unlocked – or enter your device passcode while connected – at least once a week.”
- sli 8y agoKind of amazing seeing this story right next to the Google Duplex story.
- nottorp 8y agoLike everyone else, I'm curious how you recover your forgotten pass code after 7 days. Also, what happens if you don't use a passcode?
- saagarjha 8y ago> I'm curious how you recover your forgotten pass code after 7 days You don't. If you've lost your passcode, you can't get it back.
- nneonneo 8y agoTo me, it feels like Apple is trying to figure out how GreyKey and Cellebrite are getting in - and patching every vector they can think of in the meantime. I suspect that if law enforcement agencies are suddenly told they have to unlock new Apple devices within 7 days of acquisition, Apple will find out and can infer that the exploits have (e.g.) something to do with USB accessory access.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- x0054 8y agoWhy 7 days though. It's should disable within 2 hours at most, and users should have the option to disable USB when ever the phone is locked.
- exabrial 8y agoI fear this is really only going to have the reverse effect, instead of carefully examining whether or not 4th Amndment protections apply, "Out of an abundance of caution", courts will immediately seize and decrypt your phone. Not to nitpick, but I wish these things were opt-in. For instance, I don't really care if I've restarted my mac and have to use my password again to log in, I'd rather use my fingerprint. I just need to prevent casual attackers, there is _literally nothing_ on here that needs to be protected with fort-knox level security.
- eulers__number 8y agothis is why I will never use google pixel tho I will still be forced to use gmail, search, and Youtube because of its conveniences, hopefully in the future something new that comes out that has mathematical open source decentralized form of censorship-proof algorithms will come out
- k_sze 8y agoI wonder how iOS keeps track of the 7 days in question. For an iOS device still connected to the internet or to a mobile phone network, I presume it will periodically make an NTP request or get the date/time from the mobile phone carrier, to adjust its clock. What if those requests are MITM'ed?
- lathiat 8y agoThough that's kind of a good question, GENERALLY speaking you should use "monotonic" timers for this sort of thing which don't have that problem. They're based on a system time which doesn't change. Of course, that's no guarantee.. this is done wrong in a lot of places all the time. But I would expect Apple to get this sort of basic thing right in their security code. Hopefully :)
- Animats 8y agoWhy should it even be enabled if you're not logged on?
- paulsutter 8y agoI wish I could just disable the data connection permanently > Restricted USB Mode requires an iPhone running 11.3 to be unlocked at least once every 7 days. Otherwise, the Lightning port will lock down to charge only mode. The iPhone or iPad will still charge, but it will no longer attempt to establish a data connection. Even the “Trust this computer?” prompt will not be displayed once the device is connected to the computer
- gaius 8y agoWhy 7 days? 24 hours should be enough - who connects devices but doesn’t unlock in that time? Can’t think of a scenario for that.
- jlebrech 8y agoI'm pretty sure they can just remove the chip and dump the contents.
- dwighttk 8y agoWhy seven days? How about 24 hours? Or even better if the device is locked I have to unlock it to use the port for anything besides charging (and it can then lock on its usual schedule)