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Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
- pouetpouet 9y agoBlack friday is a thing in Italy??
- crivabene 9y agoIt is. Mostly started when Amazon landed in 2010.
- louhike 9y agoIt's becoming a thing in a lot of countries. There are a lot of discounts in France.
- Fnoord 9y agoYes, and also in other parts of Europe. Why does this surprise you? The amount of celebrations (reasons to have sales) have increased throughout the years. If you got sales regularly people will wait till stuff's on sale. Now they gotta wait less long. It might seem silly, but the whole trick is to get people to buy things they'd otherwise not buy.
- cybertronic 9y agoYes, but sadly, not Thanksgiving
- icebraining 9y agoWould be weird for a mostly Catholic country. In my corner of the European south we do celebrate St. Martin's Day, although with roasted chestnuts rather than turkey. And we drink piquette, which for some reason is illegal to sell in the EU nowadays.
- cr1895 9y ago>Would be weird for a mostly Catholic country. How so? There's nothing explicitly religious about the holiday. Just this morning I was reading this: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/22/opinion/thanksgiving-religion-inclusion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/22/opinion/thanksgiving-reli...
- Symbiote 9y agoThe American retailers have been busy promoting it, leaving the European competition little choice but to join in. Few people realise it's related to American thanksgiving.
- caiob 9y agoDoes that affect Boxing day deals at all?
- kristoff_it 9y agoDiscounts are a thing, black friday not that much honestly. We have other periods with discounts that are famous. I believe black friday is only a thing in italy with regard to amazon and maybe some other online shop, and we definitely don't have people stomping on each other in front of malls at opening hours.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- forinti 9y agoIt's become a thing in Brazil recently. Halloween has also become unavoidable. I find this strange, because most people couldn't give you the time of day in english.
- visarga 9y agoIn Romania Halloween has also become a thing, to the great annoyance of the Orthodox church.
- cisanti 9y agoAlso in Spain! But it's the businesses that are shilling both, Halloween and Black Friday, to sell you shit you don't need. But it's strange because it happened very fast overnight when suddenly everyone decided we have to celebrate it. Many regions and countries in Europe have their own Halloween - like traditions and days that are centuries old, but American style Halloween is pushing them away.
- soneca 9y agoIt is in Brazil for the last ~5 years. And we don't even have Thanksgiving here. It is just one more made up date to create advertising campaigns. Started as a shy e-commerce thing here. Then became a huge e-commerce thing. Then a huge all commerce thing. I am seeing "Black Friday" promotions everywhere, from financial services to beauty treatments. A common joke here is that it is "Black Fraud - pay 50% of the double of the price"[0] Because a lot of shops just smoothly increase their prices in the previous weeks, so when the date arrives, they can advertise "50% off discounts". To the point that there are websites monitoring this kind of fraud and official agencies inspecting and fining companies. [0] The pun "Black Friday" works in Portuguese too, as shops use the original term in English and fraud is "fraude" in Portuguese.
- consz 9y agoDoesn't the same thing occur in the US? I was under the impression it's always been set up so that there isn't any actual deals, just the appearance of it.
- coldtea 9y agoNope, there are some pretty sweat deals when you compare prices before and after the period. It might depend on the industry though.
- SomeStupidPoint 9y agoIt's also an opportunity to drop stock you don't want before the end of Q4. My impression (about the retail version, say 15-20 years ago) was that it was companies offloading stock they wanted off their books at something of a discount ahead of the holiday season, since it let the companies close out their books for the year and customers get a little bit more for the holidays. It was a win-win in a lot of ways. Then the disgusting marketing/accounting shenanigans took hold and made it shitty, particularly the online version. It's still possible to find genuine deals, mostly because retailers do still have stock they want to offload.
- Mountain_Skies 9y agoThat happens to some extent but many jurisdictions have laws regulating the practice of increasing prices just to cut them as an advertised discount. For national retailers who do nationwide campaigns, the hassle of structuring deals in a way that is compliant with all state and local laws would be significant.
- Mountain_Skies 9y agoIt's spreading. Five years ago I was in Paraguay and they were having Black Friday sales. They didn't even translate the name into Spanish or Portuguese despite most of the customers being from Brazil and Argentina. Everyone just knew what those English words meant for shopping.
- etanol 9y agoIn Spain, Amazon was the major retailer introducing the Black Friday to the local masses. During the next few years, other sellers joined the trend pushing it even more. This year, in order to stay competitive, Amazon Spain has been "forced" to follow the trend and have a Black Friday WEEK.
- djsumdog 9y agoThe United States is the largest exporter of culture ... and war.
- HelloNurse 9y agoIt's mainly an Amazon.com fixation, but various large retail chains are starting to follow suit.
- kbart 9y agoBlack Friday is a thing even in China -- just look at major online retailers (AliExpress and similar). Though outside USA it has nothing to do with Thanksgiving day, elsewhere it's just another way to boost sales.
- simias 9y agoThis year it's a thing in France too apparently, or at least some vendors are pushing it. See for instance amazon.fr's frontpage or even the local fnac.com. When I saw "black friday" on their landing page I thought I had gone on the american version by accident. It's odd because Thanksgiving is only something you see in American sitcoms over here. American cultural imperialism is really impressive. I can understand why Halloween gets more and more popular over here since it's a fun holiday for kids but I can't figure out how black friday makes any sense when you don't celebrate Thanksgiving. I also don't understand why they hope to make "black friday" a positive brand when the only thing I associate it with is videos of Americans trampling each other to get cheap appliances.
- bambax 9y agoAmazon is indeed actively pushing "Black Friday", and Fnac is playing catchup. But I don't know if anyone in France is aware that "Black Friday" means "discount"...? Also, discount days are regulated in France (called "les soldes"); normally you can't have a discount day any time you want, you have to apply for authorization. I sell on Amazon in Europe for the first time this year (started in January); I don't do discounts but am anxious to see if sales will rise this week-end.
- simias 9y agoIt's amusing that it means that we now effectively have a "celebration" whose only purpose and justification is buying stuff. I can't think of an equivalent.
- tdeck 9y ago> Also, discount days are regulated in France (called "les soldes"); normally you can't have a discount day any time you want, you have to apply for authorization. What is the rationale for that?
- dragandj 9y agoI don't have an answer for this particular thing, but will remind you that any bureaucracy tends to expand. So, what's the (state's bureaucracy) rationale to put itself at a place of control? Do they even need one?
- pmontra 9y agoIt didn't exist until a few years ago, much like Halloween. Then companies discovered that they are good ways to sell more stuff and suddenly we got Halloween first, then Black Friday. We're about to get our first Starbucks shop, in Milan (2019?). To be fair, it's not only marketing. Ideas move by themselves.
- kenoph 9y agoSince Amazon & others started to advertise it heavily. But it's not like people go crazy like in the US. It's more or less yet another random excuse to sell stuff. I would say that it's still mostly an online thing.
- alkonaut 9y agoIn Sweden we have Black Friday now even though we don’t have thanksgiving. But given that we somehow started to carve pumpkins etc in recent years, I don’t doubt that we’ll have turkey and annoying uncles at thanksgiving within just a few years. Right now Thanksgiving is only a Black Friday sale and nothing else.
- madeofpalk 9y agoChristmas is 'celebrated' in Japan as a retail event.
- oblio 9y agoNow that's something I haven't heard about in the US for a few decades: strikes. I'm partly kidding, but have there been any major strikes in the US lately?
- tboyd47 9y agoYes. There was a major strike of screenwriters in 2008. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Writers_Guild_of_Ame...
- erikb 9y ago"lately" That's almost a decade ago.
- tboyd47 9y agoGood point!
- jboynyc 9y agoA few others from the past decade which were covered by the country's few remaining serious labor journalists. Some were also written about in books [1] or documented in film [2]. 2008: Puerto Rico teachers strike. 2008: Stella D'Oro strike. 2011: Occupy Oakland and unions shut down the port following a call for a general strike. 2012: Chicago teachers strike. 2012: Republic Windows and Doors strike and occupation. 2013: Fast food workers strike in 58 U.S. cities. There's an exciting younger generation of labor journalists, and a good way to keep tabs on what they are covering is through Dissent's podcast Belabored (feed at [3]). [1]: https://www.versobooks.com/books/1569-strike-for-america https://www.versobooks.com/books/1569-strike-for-america [2]: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1981035/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1981035/ [3]: https://www.dissentmagazine.org/feed/belabored https://www.dissentmagazine.org/feed/belabored
- dkersten 9y agoHow about the video game voice acting strike? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_video_game_voice_actor_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_video_game_voi...
- erikb 9y agoIs there a Black Friday in Italy? I thought this would be a purely American thing.
- dagw 9y agoOver the past few years it's become pretty huge in Sweden at least. edit: at least retailers are pushing it heavily. I don't know if the general population is really into it.
- mcmacintosh 9y agoIt's mainly a marketing event. It was brought mainly from Amazon and then other chains picked it up to 'compete'.
- a254613e 9y agoIt's a still primarily an American thing, however a lot of (mostly) online retailers such as amazon have started to have "Black Friday Sales", "Cyber Monday Week", etc. I'm not sure how it is in the US but at least in Germany the offers and deals are pretty bad and/or not interesting - especially on amazon.
- bezaorj 9y agoIt has become a big thing in Brazil as well
- pjc50 9y agoAmerican things become global things when they're marketed heavily enough. This is the kind of thing people mean when they say "cultural hegemony".
- Kurtz79 9y agoThe biggest "cultural hegemony" is basically capitalism, though. Companies have all the interest in having such events adopted locally, since it translates in more sales for them. But yes, Halloween and Black Friday rank among the more recent and successful American imports in EU, just a few years ago they were virtually unknown.
- brndnmtthws 9y agoHappy to hear workers are standing up for themselves. The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages over the past 50 years (check out Thomas Piketty's work if you're curious about this).
- colejohnson66 9y agoIt’s not FUD when you literally have unions such as ones for police who fight tooth and nail to keep bad employees working there. Sure, that’s what a union is supposed to do, but there needs to be a line, and no one wants to define it.
- 09094920394314 9y agoIt's still FUD, it just means some unions are corrupt. Or maybe more whataboutism. Imagine if we all (and not just the left) talked about companies the same way we talk about unions, using the countless examples of managerial abuse, wage theft etc. as examples. Would you say that would be reasonable? And preemptively, this is not a "both sides" question either. Everything is grey, but there are shades of grey. And while neither unions nor companies are perfect, both are at the same time vital to how things work right now and not above criticism. They both are definitely preferable to 1820s style enterprises for example, but worse than the Culture.
- stale2002 9y agoHow about we change the laws so that people who support the union are free to join, and people who DON'T are free to leave? If unions are so great, then they should stand on their own 2 feet, instead of forcing everyone to join them.
- toomuchtodo 9y agoFree rider problem. Same as “well, if you want government and society, pay taxes. If not, go ahead and opt out.” Unions are only as good as their governance and oversight. Unions can be good, and work in partnership with management, but it takes time and effort. There is no one click button or app for collective protection of worker rights.
- Sujan 9y agoGreat way to make sure in the near future Amazon will send packages to Italy from France, Austria, Slovenia or Switzerland - the countries sharing a border with them. (Same happened - and is happening - in Germany. Staff at logistics centers started to strike (in small numbers). Totally unrelated Amazon started shipping from Poland and Czech Republic)
- 09094920394314 9y agoAnd so will either increase prices or slow down delivery. Also, I don't know wether Italy has sane strike laws or not, but in Germany amazon would not be allowed to just fire the strikers, and there is and was non-negligible PR fallout from the strikes. Just to present the full picture. In the end, either there will be a price found. But I'd say good for Italian workers for making the labour market more of a market
- Sujan 9y agoJust to make clear, I am not on either ones side here. Striking is a right in Italy and Germany, so the employees sure can do it. But the reality is how it is as well :/ > And so will either increase prices or slow down delivery. Not really. Germany is small enough that it doesn't really matter if you get it from a German or a Polish warehouse (that sits directly behind the border). (Amazon Prime deliveries and similar stuff excluded - but that's a very small percentage) > Also, I don't know wether Italy has sane strike laws or not, but in Germany amazon would not be allowed to just fire the strikers, and there is and was non-negligible PR fallout from the strikes. You don't fire anyone. You just don't invest there any more to keep up with your xx% growth every year. You just do that behind the border.
- 09094920394314 9y ago> Just to make clear, I am not on either ones side here. Striking is a right in Italy and Germany, so the employees sure can do it. But the reality is how it is as well :/ I hope I didn't come off as aggressive. While I am very much on the sides of the workers here as a self identified socialist (since I run a company I don't really get much cred from most socialist in-groups though), I try not to be blind to market realities and alternative view points >Not really. Germany is small enough that it doesn't really matter if you get it from a German or a Polish warehouse (that sits directly behind the border). (Amazon Prime deliveries and similar stuff excluded - but that's a very small percentage) Margins matter at that scale, otherwise amazon would have never opened warehouses in Germany (they never did in switzerland AFAIK). Same thing with the "small percentage" of prime: anecdotaly, if I can't buy it with prime, I don't bother with amazon, because then I can just support some independent store. It won't affect people too much, but it is definetely not a no brainer. >You don't fire anyone. You just don't invest there any more to keep up with your xx% growth every year. You just do that behind the border. True. But then you also have politics to think about...without investing, you don't have as much indirect political clout. If anything ,while the most likely outcome is what you describe, there will be the next time the question of an "amazon tax" comes up and without being an employer, amazon will have to invest more into lobbying, which might work but fuel resentment...nothing ever stays still, unless people just accept the status quo
- nanomoose 9y agoItaly is also pushing forward with a 6% revenue tax on Amazon and similar.
- rurban 9y agoSame happened in Germany at 6 Amazon logistic sites at Oct 31, one of the biggest german holidays. https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verdi-ruft-an-drei-deutschen-Amazon-Standorten-zum-Streik-auf-3875870.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verdi-ruft-an-drei-d... They even have their own website: https://www.amazon-verdi.de/ https://www.amazon-verdi.de/
- RGamma 9y agoWhat effort people take to work at an obviously toxic company... the job market must be really bad.
- tunichtgut 9y agoit is pretty bad. People have to take those jobs or be unemployed and get so called sanctions (=less money) by the unemployment office. There is no general labour shortage in germany right now. 2 million foreigners are getting unemployment payments right now, which is ~1.000 Euros per month (housing included). In addition, 7 million german people are out of work. All in all i guess we have ~10 million people waiting in lines for more work or work at all.
- riffraff 9y agoGood luck to them, may they obtain whatever they ask. It's also nice to see people doing a serious strike in Italy for once, unions have done a shitty job there in recent years, but it's important to have workers protest, to guarantee a balance of power.
- malchow 9y agoStories like this will, in the near future, be part of the story about why Brexit was NBD.
- splouk 9y agoCould you elaborate?
- rsynnott 9y agoPresumably no-one will want to strike after Brexit, due to all the Red, White and Blueness. I dunno, maybe they think May will declare herself dictator for life and ban organised labour or something?
- johnvonneumann 9y agoThe majority of countries are already enacting laws/frameworks/technology that would help eventually outlaw this sort of behaviour, perhaps not explicitly, but many times implicitly. For example in Australia the govt is looking to push facial recognition cameras into public places and "only use them for serious crimes where the sentence is 3 years or more". What they fail to tell you is that in Aus, public disturbance carries something like 5 years, so now there's the very legitimate worry that facial recognition could be used on people fighting for their rights and showing support. Used the Aus example because the two countries are fairly similar law wise, and with their surveillance stances.
- beavis2 9y agoI know this doesn't really apply to Amazon, however I think it's irresponsible striking on the companies busiest days. If you want to keep your job, your company needs money. If you want better wages/conditions, your company needs more money. With that said, I do wish the strikers luck.
- eloisant 9y agoAt some point when the company is making tons of money but is screwing its employees, the only recourse the employees have is to do damage to the company to be heard. Amazon is already drowning in money, Bezos is the richest man on earth, even more money is not going to convince them to treat their employees better. A bit less money is not going to sink Amazon.
- beavis2 9y agoI know. It doesn't apply to Amazon - I wish the workers all the luck.
- tunichtgut 9y agoI dont blame them. Wages in Germany are far to low.
- Kiro 9y ago> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. I don't understand how you can strike if this is true.
- Xylakant 9y agoFirst, "the company said" doesn't make that a fact. Maybe explicit or implicit benefits are better at other companies. Second: Why not strike even if this is true? The workers are part of why the company earns money, why not demand their share? It's market forces, after all - workers are just using their bargaining power, just as any company does every time they negotiate a wage with an employee.
- SiempreViernes 9y agoI don't either understand why they strike, but that's because they released their statement as a scanned pdf without ocr and I can't read italian: http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969.pdf http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969....
- Grobak 9y agoThe are complaining about forced overtime, night work and working sunday, all time that is paid at minimum salary. They say they have been contracting with the company for over a year and while they are apparently open, in practize they keep taking time and implementing no changes
- mrighele 9y agoI will try a summary translation for you (I can't claim to be perfect, it is more union-speak than Italian :-) ): The issues that the unions are complaining about are: * Need for increased wages: the current wages follow the minimum required by the CCNL (national collective contract)[], but working condition are worse than usual: pauseless working shifts, higher productivity required, night shifts spread all year long with 6 days working week in during high peak perios (e.g. Christmas). No productivity bonuses for event such as Christmas or Black Friday. * No ability to balance work life and personal life. The unions say that they are going on strike since for more that one years they have tried to address those issues with Amazon but the latter always delayed any kind of action. [*] CCNL is a contract that is agreed between unions and employers at the national level to guarantee a baseline for all employees in a given sector.
- acheron 9y agoSorry to hear they hate their jobs so much. Luckily for them, pretty soon they’ll be replaced by robots and all be happily unemployed. And hey, the more they strike, the more incentive Amazon has to move quickly on that, so they’re definitely working towards their apparent goal.
- Xylakant 9y agoAmazon is working full speed towards that goal anyways. Not using their bargaining power now, while they still have it, is a loosing strategy.
- SiempreViernes 9y agoThe joint declaration from the unions (scanned, italian, pdf): http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969.pdf http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969....
- FanaHOVA 9y agoThey are basically saying that they talked with Amazon management and they were open to listen but not to act in order to raise their salaries and add bonuses. The reasons why they are asked it's because they have to work nights, Sundays and have forced overtime. The economy in Italy is really bad, most of my friends don't have jobs and those who do usually have ones who are just average pay (18k euros/year). From what I read here (an Italian newspaper: http://www.lastampa.it/2017/03/14/edizioni/vercelli/qui-ad-amazon-tre-turni-e-uno-stipendio-da-euro-SRZaDy0KStuNc7C9LEnlbI/pagina.html http://www.lastampa.it/2017/03/14/edizioni/vercelli/qui-ad-a...) salaries are 1100-1200/month AFTER taxes. My dad delivers fresh fish to restaurants, he starts working at 4am every day until 1pm the next day. He works Monday through Saturday. His pay is slightly higher than that simply because he's been there for 20+ years and is now responsible for a few other things. At least once a month there would be a strike while I was in high school, whether that was the professors, the bus drivers, the school janitors, the delivery people, etc. I don't think this is gonna be any more useful than those strikes; the difference is that Amazon can fire them, while those other strikes were "safe" because they are all state jobs which you can not be removed from. Curious to see how this plays out.
- nindalf 9y ago> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. Not a criticism of either Amazon or the unions but I would really appreciate it if news sources would verify these claims one way or another. Obviously as a wire service, that may not be Reuters' job but whether Amazon's claim here is true or not makes a massive difference to what I glean from the article.
- hackermailman 9y agoI talk to workers here in Canada the starting salaries and benefits are about average, definitely not 'highest in the sector' or any such nonsense though maybe in Europe they are in order to attract employees. Here they are expected to do 10-12hr overtime shifts every day, and work as hard as possible without breaks to make bonuses which are inconsistent, and because there's no union representation harassment galore goes on with managers phoning you at home all hours to answer non-critical questions that could have waited until your next shift. This old Gawker article accurately describes the warehouse conditions http://gawker.com/inside-an-amazon-warehouse-the-relentless-need-to-mak-1780800336 http://gawker.com/inside-an-amazon-warehouse-the-relentless-...
- srtjstjsj 9y agoBeing a "wire service" doesn't remove their obligation to check claims of fact. Otherwise, they should print my claim that Amazon has the lowest benefits of any logistics company.
- 9y ago
- kingkawn 9y agoWoody Guthrie knew https://youtu.be/10A0HQPLTJk https://youtu.be/10A0HQPLTJk
- alexasmyths 9y agoIt's not 'black Friday' in Europe.
- anon11082016 9y agoBut exactly after 5pm, they'll go home from their strike. Not a minute longer
- Thlom 9y agoHow do unions work in the US? From what I hear it sounds like members are "employed" by the union and the company is forced to hire workers from the union? Have I misunderstood? In Europe workers are hired by the company and are free to enter whichever union he or she wants or not to join a union. Usually all workers at a workplace join the same union and form a local branch/club at the workplace. Unions are national and usually there's several different unions organised under one union organiser. The biggest union organiser in Norway have almost a million members (that's one fifth of the population!) across almost 30 different unions. So when push comes to shove they are able to call a general strike and basically shut down the country. That almost never happens though.
- literallycancer 9y ago>How do unions work in the US? From what I hear it sounds like members are "employed" by the union and the company is forced to hire workers from the union? Have I misunderstood? This is the case in the EU as well. If your company is of a certain size, you are required to pay a person that works for the union rather than for the company.
- badlogic 9y agoCitation needed. At least in Austria, a country with a 90%+ unionization, that is absolutely not the case.
- brianwawok 9y agoMy limited union experience as a highschooler. I worked as a stocker at Kroger grocery store. Made maybe $6 an hour. During interviewing, I was told that stocking at Kroger was a union position, and in order to accept the job I had to join the union. I know it somehow tied into a national union, and am sure I could google it.. but I know nothing about it. Every week, I had an $8 deduction from my paycheck to union dues. Otherwise, it was no different from any other job. I interviewed with the store (Kroger). I got a paycheck from Kroger. I maybe had a piece of paper with a phone number of a union rep, but I never made contact with the union (for good or bad). The pay was the same as the non-union grocery store across town. So for me personally it was nothing except $8 a week to some union bosses. But I have been AROUND many other unions, and the experiences can be far different. For example, the Chicago Public schools have a very strong union. Because of it, teachers are paid a fair bit higher than other comparable cities. In theory teachers are protected from unjust firings and harassment. As cons, the teachers get no merit award, 100% pay is based on tenure. Great for the bottom half of teachers, not so good for the top half of teachers. It also makes it basically impossible to fire a teacher if there is not a videotape of the teacher beating a kid.
- grondilu 9y ago> Unions said in a statement more than 500 Amazon workers at the Piacenza site in northern Italy had agreed to strike following a failure to negotiate bonuses with the company. They could not get bonuses, so they go on strike? Jeez, Amazon really needs to work on automating its warehouses ASAP, for it seems to me workers greed is becoming a problem.
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