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Google's latest iPhone rival off to a rocky start
- dandare 9y agoIs that the one with no headphone jack?
- miguelrochefort 9y agoPhones won't come with headphone jacks anymore. Deal with it.
- fenwick67 9y agoMine will.
- miguelrochefort 9y agoGood luck with your niche device that will never receive updates.
- dandare 9y agoThanks, I am very happy with my S8.
- fake-name 9y agoNo
- miguelrochefort 9y agoNo what?
- __alias 9y agoThere's got to be a word for the attitude you are running here.. I can't think of it. Anyway, as an owner of wireless headphones and wired headphones I definitely wouldn't choose a phone without an aux in. My wireless headphones have stayed uncharged for months - i'm not yet ready to be responsible for charging two devices every night.
- zootboy 9y agoDefeatism?
- misterbwong 9y agoStockholm Syndrome. Defeatism implies that these people feel defeated and have given up. Instead, I get the feeling people are trying to spin this as "progress"
- username223 9y ago> There's got to be a word for the attitude you are running here.. I can't think of it. "Fatalism"? It's the same attitude that leads some people to roll over and agree that "privacy is dead -- get used to it." The replacement of the headphone jack by a port that is worse in every way, by wireless 'phones that are unreliable and need to be charged every few hours, or by an expensive dongle makes life worse for everyone except headphone and dongle salesmen. The rest of us should not simply roll over and take it.
- hanklazard 9y agoI agree. The issue is, as a longtime iPhone user, I'm being forced into a no-headphone-jack phone. I need to get a new phone in the next month or so, and my major options are: 1. iphone SE - seems great, but given its internals are 6S, it will be updated into slow performance sooner than my other options. 2. iphone SE 2 - rumored to come out in the next 4-6 months, but who's to say it will have a headphone jack? 3. iphone 7/8/X - dongle land 4. Switch to android - apart from standard friction of using a new OS (probably not a very big deal), I may need to re-buy a number of apps. And the one android phone I was counting on, the Pixel 2, now also doesn't have a headphone jack. Thanks google. I'm actually tempted to just buy an android phone by Blu or something; this overpriced hardware seemed almost worth it when it was at least not taking away features that I use everyday. Is that the best version of not rolling over and taking it? Ugh. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate them.
- Frondo 9y agoThis is kind of the right answer, even though it's obviously not popular. The real problem is, right now wireless headphones aren't nearly as convenient along a number of axes as wired headphones. The real solution is, get them to be absolutely as convenient. After all, solving engineering problems is what we're all about here, right?
- duncan_bayne 9y agoIt would be nice if they were engineering problems created by actual user demand, though, not a combination of slick marketing and fear of media piracy.
- username223 9y agoWhen someone figures out how to make wireless earbuds that cost $20 or less, never need charging, and won't fall out of my ears and down a sewer grate, I'll think about buying them.
- khedoros1 9y agoI'll look forward to the $5 wireless headphones that don't need charged, and the matching transmitters to stick into all my current devices.
- dragonwriter 9y agoRight now, I'm dealing with it by preferentially buying phones that come with a headphone jack. And internally stowed stylus. And a slot for a memory card. Fortunately, the Note 8 has all three. Sure all of those may be on the way out in long term trend—the others for longer than the headphone jack. But as long as I have a choice, I'll vote with my wallet for the things I prefer.
- dang 9y agoPlease don't do this here.
- ImSkeptical 9y agoMy own opinion has shifted along with the availability of my Bluetooth headphones. Before I owned Bluetooth headphones I thought getting rid of the headphone jack was a bad idea. After I bought a nice pair that does noise canceling as well, I became a Bluetooth headphone evangelist. After my girlfriend discovered how nice my (or as she calls them "the") Bluetooth headphones are, I find I'm dreading having to pay another 300-400 dollars for another pair of headphones now that my pixel is arriving in a few days.
- grzm 9y agoYes, the Pixel 2 has no headphone jack. https://store.google.com/product/pixel_2_specs https://store.google.com/product/pixel_2_specs
- Geee 9y agoGreat to see them moving along with the times.
- symlinkk 9y agoIs Apple the only company that can reliably build quality electronics?
- chk_ur_autism 9y agoI don't know why you're being downvoted, as it seems to largely be the case.
- satysin 9y agoApple have stuck to LCD for all their iPhone's. The iPhone X will be the first with an OLED panel so it will be interesting to see if after a few months it also suffers from burn in.
- MBCook 9y agoApple tends to be willing to pay more for the parts and they have very high quality standards. That said they’re not immune. There have been a number of displays Apple used in the last few years with retention issues (I think the original rMBP has issues) so it’s perfectly possible. If they made the gamble they must think it’s ok but as someone who plans to buy an X I can say it does worry me a bit. Edit: another comment points out their keyboards. That obviously hasn’t been going well either.
- bllguo 9y agoThe problem with the Pixel 2 XL screens seems to be attributable to LG. LG's own V30 phone has similar screen issues. Meanwhile Samsung's OLED panels are doing great so far - and Apple is sourcing from Samsung.
- thinkythought 9y agoI've never seen a 1st gen apple watch with burn in, even. Mine is a bit over two years old. Apple seems to buy the absolute best quality displays, and have good control logic/orbiting/etc to prevent it. I use mine heavily, although i guess not as much as a phone. I've never heard of one getting burn in/retention though.
- jdavis703 9y ago
- satysin 9y agoOLED screens are lovely in many ways but after having a Galaxy S6 that I had to return twice due to burn in I avoid it now. It just isn't worth the hassle of having to get the phone repaired/replaced. It took Samsung over a week each time to replace the phone (for free) which was a royal pain in the ass. I know OLED tech is getting better and maybe with Apple putting an OLED in the iPhone X it means they (well Samsung as that is who makes the screen in the iPhone X) have "cracked it". However I am going to wait a couple of months to see how things play out before I jump on the OLED bandwagon again.
- ezequiel-garzon 9y agoInteresting, my Note II lasted almost 5 years and there was never any ghosting effect, so I thought Samsung controlled this technology quite well. Then again we can see what happened to batteries...
- gilrain 9y agoAnecdote for anecdote: I've been enjoying OLED screens on my Android phones since the Galaxy Nexus (2011), and I've never had burn-in or any other display-specific issue.
- Stratoscope 9y agoSame here. My Note 4 is three years old, with hours of screen-on time per day at a fairly high brightness. (I use it primarily as a tablet, not a phone.) Not the slightest hint of burn-in or any display problems.
- satysin 9y agoFor sure. Many friends of mine have had no issues. Maybe I was just unlucky or my way of using the phone is different enough, who knows.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- mikestew 9y agoI'm wondering if it can be done, or isn't already done, like plasma TVs that rotate pixels and other trickery to keep burn-in at bay. I had a Panasonic plasma for a good ten years that saw its fair share of video games, with health bars and the like, and never saw burn-in. I did see ghosting toward the end of its life, but never burned-in images. The new plasma (Samsung, because I missed the last of the Panasonics) is only a few years old, but no problems with that one yet, either.
- mmanfrin 9y agoApple's iPhone 7 rival is also off to a rocky start, seeing as how the 7 is outselling the 8.
- cbhl 9y agoThe iPhone X goes on sale on Friday, though, right?
- MBCook 9y agoThe 7 is a great phone and it’s cheaper now. There has been a guess at the reason: people want the X. Thought is after the reviews come out and say it’s not that great, or people try to preorder and get told they have to wait until March they may give up and buy the 8. We’ve never had a situation where there are two dates the iPhone comes out on before so we don’t know how much thats effecting demand for the 8.
- gressquel 9y agoProblem is not the hardware but the software. Never in my life have I used a shitty OS like Android. Absolute cesspool of a system. Lag, malware, bad UI, bloat and general feeling of being cheap. Windows Phone was much better.
- cycrutchfield 9y agoYou'll get downvoted by Android fanboys but this is unequivocally true. Android hardware and software feels cheap, chintzy, and, I hate to use this Jobs-ism, it just lacks good taste. I can only speculate at the root cause here, but fragmentation of the ecosystem probably plays a large role.
- deftturtle 9y agoWindows has the same shitty tastes. Graphic design is very poor on many versions of Windows, namely those accessible to students and others not running the latest version on the latest hardware. Mac has had beautiful design that is visually clean for years, but windows has been cluttered and frustrating.
- pdimitar 9y agoI agree Windows desktop isn't much better visually but Windows Phone was very orderly, clean, fast even on potato phones, and had an astounding idle battery life. It's an OS ruined by lack of developer interest which was caused by no small amount of mistakes from Microsoft. But it has (had) a very solid foundation.
- Ar-Curunir 9y agoLol Which versions of Android are you using? The last couple of generations of stock Android have been quite polished. Regarding software, it's the iPhone that looks like a phone from last decade. Bezelless screens are the future, and they appeared on Android devices much before the iPhone X
- ActsJuvenile 9y agoI like how you put it : Android feels like it was designed by people who lack good taste. Android is okay for developing countries and lower cost phones, but for phones over $600 there is really no contest when it comes to workmanship and polish that iPhone provides.
- wakkaflokka 9y agoThis whole situation frustrates me to no end. The Pixel 2 XL checks all of my boxes, which really aren't much: runs Android, has a large screen, is fast, has a good camera, is fast, is supported with updates for a few years, and is fast. My S7 Edge has made me truly understand the life pain and suffering that even minor lag can cause. I implicitly assumed that any phone which would fit those criteria and be in the $700-$800 price range would also have a flawless screen. I'm not even talking about a Note8-level "holy shit that's amazing" screen - more like an S7 level of "nice screen" screen. A speedy Android UI is so important to me though that I'm at least going to give the phone a shot when I receive it. "Maybe it's just a bad batch," I'm telling myself. And promptly RMA it or return it if there's any issues. Part of me feels bad that I'm still willing to part with my money to try this phone out. Does that make me a sucker?
- martinald 9y agoWhy not get the old Pixel XL? It's still a great phone.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- VVayneTracker 9y agoDat chin do' The bezels make it unworkable for me, Donald, and the rest of the small hand contingent.
- CarVac 9y agoBezels make a phone easier to use. It's incredibly awkward trying to reach the space bar with my thumb on a phone without bezels.
- flukus 9y agoIt will only get software updates for another year and security updates for 2 more years, it's 1/3 of the way through it's effective lifespan. The supported lifetimes are far too short when you buy in release day, let alone a year later.
- wnevets 9y agoNo headphone jack, no wireless charging. Why is the pixel going backwards?
- muninn_ 9y agoWell the headphone jack is a step forward. But I agree with the wireless charging.
- choward 9y agoUsually you can only get one of those.
- jscipione 9y agoThe LG V30 and Samsung Galaxy S8 were both released this year and both feature wireless charging and a headphone jack.
- choward 9y agoI was referring to not having a headphone check and not having wireless charging.
- Steko 9y agoWant to take bets on whether LG and Samsung's flagships will offer a headphone jack in 2019?
- dragonwriter 9y agoSamsung still offers a flagship with a stylus, which everyone else stopped doing about the time of the first iPhone, and they recently went back to including support for additional storage on their flagships. They might drop the headphone jack soon, but I wouldn't bet on it.
- mparlane 9y agoS7 also..
- phreack 9y agoI seriously wanted to like the Pixel, I think Apple's business model is entirely harmful, but the lack of a headphone jack on the flagship Google phone is really the last straw. We've lost so much good tech over the years to reduce costs, that I just can't accept a premium phone dropping such a global standard for no good reason at all. Next time I buy a phone I'll vote with my wallet and go with more consumer friendly options.
- suby 9y agoSame here. I just picked up a new phone the other day, and I immediately dropped the pixel from consideration because of its lack of a headphone jack.
- arkades 9y agoIf not an iPhone or a pixel, what decent phones are left in the running?
- chucky_z 9y agoCheck out mid-range stuff. There's an absolute treasure trove. I've been using a Moto G5 Plus (the 4GB RAM model) for some time now and it's an absolute treat.
- pier25 9y agoMe too. Other than the mediocre camera I've been really happy with it.
- remir 9y agoHow regular is Motorola/Lenovo regarding security updates?
- chucky_z 9y agoPretty regular, I will say they haven't seemed to put forth a patch for WPA2 yet, but I'm also unsure how fully vulnerable it is mostly because Android can be such a customized beast.
- user5994461 9y agoIs it just me or this title makes no sense?
- fiatpandas 9y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlinese https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlinese https://hinative.com/en-US/questions/263433 https://hinative.com/en-US/questions/263433
- lanius 9y agoI believe only the Pixel 2 XL is plagued by screen issues. The regular Pixel 2 doesn't seem to have any widespread screen issues.
- on_and_off 9y agoThey don't use the same supplier.
- iamaelephant 9y agoMy first-generation Pixel shit the bed after 11 months and Google and my retailer refuse to rectify the problem. Never again.
- pasbesoin 9y agoAfter my Nexus 5X bootloop problem, this about puts the nail in the coffin of LG phones, for me. By the way, what's wrong with this scenario? = Lots of people want a headphone jack. "You can't have one." = Lots of people want limits on tracking -- and on incessant nagging to enable settings that track. 'Wall of deafening silence.' = People want some semblance of privacy. Sign on Chicago Apple Store door, to the effect of: 'By entering, you agree to let us collect and use your image for [non-security purposes].' Gee, it's almost as if we aren't even customers. Certainly not customers who are listened to and respected. But of course! I should simple sit back and let Google/Apple/X's AI tell me what I want! P.S. Bluetooth is still significantly suck-y. And, on my "temporary" two and a half month old current-generation Motorola phone that I bought to tide me over after the Nexus 5X bootlooped, I've not yet received a patch for the recent Bluetooth vulnerability (not to mention the current WPA fiasco). Fortunately, if somewhat inconveniently, that Motorola G5+ has a headphone jack. SO... Am I going to go from that "tide me over" Motorola to the Pixel 2, that I was waiting for? I'm more and more dis-inclined to do so.
- solatic 9y ago> Gee, it's almost as if we aren't even customers. Certainly not customers who are listened to and respected. For any product that is shipped at large enough scale: * The barriers to entry to replace that product at similar cost and apparent feature set get necessarily higher * The share of overall demand which is de facto inelastic increases, and therefore decreases in quality have a disproportionately low effect on overall demand Regulation is a necessary tool to fight this phenomenon.
- radicaldreamer 9y agoIt's obvious Google has miscalculated when the their billboards show off the back of the device while Apple is advertising the edge-to-edge display of the iPhone X.
- on_and_off 9y agoheh I don't know ... they are both compromises. a very ugly notch, no front facing speakers, the need for a really great palm rejection algorithm (and even in this case, the bottom of the screen might be a bit unwieldy to reach). It does look cool, but it is 'just' a different compromise than the one made on the pixel.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- AceJohnny2 9y agoI'm not sure people understand quite the level of investment Apple puts into 1) quality-control and 2) supply-chain management. These take years to build up and maintain. HTC at least has long had issues. A few years ago, my much-anticipated HTC One was a huge disappointment when the camera went purple. I'm curious to know what their defect rate on the Pixel 2 is (not that there's any chance of that ever being public)
- notatoad 9y agoInterestingly, the htc-made pixel seems to be the better of the two. The defect-ridden phone is the LG one (at least so far)
- chrisper 9y agoIt was the same with Nexus 5x (LG made) and Nexus 6p (HTC made). Nexus 5x was a disaster.
- e40 9y agoWhile my 5x never suffered the dreaded bootloop, I will never buy another LG phone. In the time I used it, Google replaced it 3 times. And hang out on the 5x subreddit, it's filled with unhappy people.
- chrisper 9y agoYes. I owned the Nexus 5x. Imho it was a horrible phone (especially compared to Nexus 5)
- gilrain 9y agoNexus 6P was made by Huawei, which in my opinion accounts for its quality.
- chrisper 9y agoWas it the Nexus 6 which was made by HTC then?
- brian-armstrong 9y agoForget about headphones or not for a second. Removing the jack is about killing the last analog hole for good. It's about control. Yes there are adapters for now but they're transitional and we can expect them to eventually go away. Once the output is locked down, expect to see the equivalent of HDCP show up. Only music you have purchased through your phone's marketplace may be played, and only to an authorized device. That's the broader issue here, and it shows one more step in the long path to removing your ownership of your devices.
- mattnewton 9y agoI think that’s a problem, but I don’t think it was done for DRM or to prevent the next square- more done to upsell Wireless earbuds. The cost of the iPhone can only go up so many hundreds of dollars per year, so they do things like offer exponentially more storage and fancy wireless earbuds as high-margin upsells to keep growing revenue on the same user base.
- brian-armstrong 9y agoWhy not both? Apple makes a killing from selling media on iTunes and with a healthy profit margin. A better DRM helps protect that golden goose just a little more.
- djrogers 9y agoThat argument makes absolutely no sense when you apply it to a company that fought against and removed DRM from their music store many many years ago.
- brian-armstrong 9y agoThat was a marketing strategy, not something that was necessarily important to Apple. Apple did that to enter a market dominated by downloaded mp3s. Now it doesn't need that position. And besides many people have left the company since then, so a decision change wouldn't be strange. More recently, the Movies and Apps parts of iTunes are very much DRM encumbered.
- 51Cards 9y agoAs soon as I saw no headphone jack I immediately stopped considering an upgrade. I still love my Pixel v1 but when it comes time to replace it I will be looking elsewhere now. It's not a feature I'm willing to give up.
- perlpimp 9y agoTerrible idea that they killed nexus phones. its was everchanging parade of interesting angles from various providers. now its just google. ugh.
- asenna 9y agoGoogle has been having a hard time getting their phones up to standards. Although I've been lucky having bought my phones from Google directly. My Nexus 5 was replaced for free when it cracked on falling (apparently the phone had a problem of the screen breaking too easy). Recently they replaced my well out of warranty Nexus 6P with a Pixel XL 128Gb for free (because of the battery issues). People who didn't buy these from Google directly in the US have a whole other story.
- ensiferum 9y agoI'm so tired of Android devices being buggy, laggy and come with bad ux. Will never buy another Android device.
- swah 9y agoThat first picture is embarassing - my Nexus 5 looks better than that. I never liked Samsung, but their S8 is miles ahead if the point is "looking modern".
- notyourday 9y agoBecause if you are a company that "eats the world" via automatic selling of the ads your leadership and your engineers are delusional enough to think that everything you touch turns into gold not because of hundreds of thousands of hours spent on testing and tweaking but because of your new amazing phone orchestration software.
- singularity2001 9y agoI'd buy one if I didn't know they are violating my privacy. And one dropping on the floor can (and will) destroy all the glory.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- z0d 9y agoAll the laptops, desktops and their chipsets They all sport 3.5mm jacks with SPDIF optical + mic and headset. Dedicated soundcards like ASUS Xonar, Creative SoundBlaster X RGB they ship with gold caps and high grade chips with proper 7.1 Dolby and Surround certification + THX Audio and even MSI uses Nahimic DSP + ESS Sabre chips in their high end gaming GT series, Even the latest trashbook pro's with USB C have a jack which is meh with Apple's Cirrus Logic used across all their devices, My Samsung Galaxy S with Wolfson chip + Linux kernel level driver (Voodoo mod) offering huge control options for user trumps most of the devices, Also the iPod5.5G of mine with a more superior Wolfson chip. The Audio is always Analog, Digital is in your computer or streamed as data but the audio is only audible in Analog. And every phone has an DAC chip to convert all the data you feed to the mic to the chip and mobo and OS, the DAC converts its so that you can listen to it. Going digital will make things complicated, Like for eg in every dongle you have to rewire the DAC to the USB to the chipset and SoC to make sure that the Audio dongle works. The 3.5mm is still standard across, your Passenger jets, Fighter Jets, Professional Audio, Casual user, Audiophile community. Why ? Because it just works, the mechanical strength of the 3.5mm port is robust plus the 360 degree freedom and the USB C using the Digital line needs another circuitry and breaks standard. Ultimately this 3.5mm port is the de-facto standard deployed on ALL systems across the world. Apple did for 3 reasons. 1) Apple has two different lines of wireless devices that sell for premium prices. Beats and Airpods (Which are literal trash grade sounding, using an W1 chip is to bridge that steps one takes to pair them and accelerometer + gyro aren't ground breaking when coming to the purpose, ofc one wont buy them for audio but for convenience while they still work with the iPhones which have the 3.5mm adapter) 2) Each and every lightning to 3.5 needs MFi certification that will give them continuous stream of revenue on all audio gear and including the people who use the 3.5mm old headsets + those dongle money, Apple became a dongle company from tech company all the innovation and brave policy of Apple is gone with Steve, Tim is nothing but Ballmer at M$, who ruined Nokia and M$ both.. 3) Strong DRM control, Closing analog will make then have control over the I/O, A thoroughly made 100% business focused decision. 3a) Please don't bring the space waste B$ to here, see Note 8 PCB design and a hint, check the MXM GPUs on MSI GT83VR and Titan and Clevo P870DM3 which are sporting a 1080 GPU which is socketed and has power to beat the Desktop chips. PCB design is to adhere by OEMs standards don't spout what Coolaid corporate Orwellians demand showing that Taptic engine and missing space... This Apple's CEO is a beancounter and a disease to the innovation as they keep in raising the walls of their utopia where ignorance is bliss. Next up thinking about the USB C Audio, that standard barely materialized and lacks proper standard, Pixel for eg doesn't have Video out and iPhone's old 40 pin has dedicated Audio line, the new 3.5mm adapter has only DAC while the AMP works from the Phone, for Apple it's easy but for the people it's complicated on multiple stages. a - No proper audio quality, the DAC chips which will be used in the dongles are undocumented, forget the phones which are offering dedicated DAC/AMP in theirs - Axon 7's DAC HiFi works on LineageOS too a unique one, HTC 10, Vivo is famous for their HiFi. Cheap knockoff ones will sound worse, If you add a DAC inside a headphone that ruins the purchase for many as not all will like that sound signature where as Analog 3.5mm ones can have clear audio tuned for that IEM/Headset. b - Dongles - More space waste inside your pocket and no standard, perhaps iPhone ecosystem is standard, can't match tot he 3.5mm spectrum but on USB C it's worse doesn't and doesn't have any AMP or any Analog line, it's 100% digital so you MUST ship one with a proper circuit with no cross compatibility (Try to use U11 dongle on the HTC 10, btw 10 beats U11 in audio since the AMP is not powerful enough vs the 10) c - BT and Wireless ? they existed since Nokia and work the same, Perhaps the LDAC and APTX but they need licensing and even with 3.5mm jack wireless works the same, Waterproofing also exists the same, Note 8 is a perfect answer it has a full silo for S-Pen + an always on Home button like apple's taptic gimmick and retains IP68 and has multiple Biometric security with the 3.5mm port under water with S-Pen removed too. LG v30 does, v20 did with HiFi Audio. AND the batteries go dead in these wireless sets, make drain more and eventually go to garbage with the planned obsolescence device of yours. Where as normal 3.5mm ones last until they die d - High quality Audio is existing, HiFi gear is widely available without any complications, in the end everyone uses it, The wear and tear resistance is higher on the jack vs the USB C which often breaks and the 2 degree possibility vs the 360 degree beats this greedy decision of Apple, Plus the wea So I don't see any advantage plus Unfortunately due to the stupid CEOs who is following the blind lead of Apple, M$ is shifted to Apple type marketing, UWP going against .exe Win32 apps, idk why all companies are obsessed with this company Apple while their whole ecosystem is limited and not deployed across multiple HW, for eg - Windows works in Govt, Military and critical mission control systems, Apple can't match that but unfortunately the people just chose form over function and made Apple that huge, look where are we. Soon the eSIM will come in the iPhones (I called it first) & planned obsolescence push further, Draconian controls, How much further you will bend, we said okay to the dedicated video ports to wireless, IR blasters, Now removable batteries also gone and now next is this ?? Question yourselves to believe what they say or the real facts which base on liberty and choice, an essential aspect for humans. https://www.androidauthority.com/was-ditching-the-headphone-jack-a-good-idea-800101/ https://www.androidauthority.com/was-ditching-the-headphone-... 49% of the wireless market share in US by Apple. See how money is flowing. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/6/21/11991302/iphone-no-headphone-jack-user-hostile-stupid https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/6/21/11991302/i... https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/5/16426754/pixel-2-headphone-jack-bluetooth-walled-garden https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/5/16426754/pixel-2-headphon...
- wolster 9y agoWell maybe one day they will stop refusing to sell them in Denmark. Small market yeah, but Apple seems to have no problems selling expensive phones...always on the same day as US.